What If Marvel was Real?

Latest Episodes:

Episode 157: Orange Alert! (Tales of Suspense #58) -- October 1964 Apr 25, 2022

Show notes

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss Kraven and the Chameleon sneaking back into America. How porous are our borders? Iron Man captured Kraven, but was then tricked by the Chameleon. Given that the two criminals are known associates, shouldn’t the capture of Kraven have led the superhero community to be on the lookout for impersonators? Why wasn’t Iron Man suspicious when “Captain America” started acting strangely? And shouldn’t the Avengers have files on every known super-criminal? There are not that many of them!

Behind the issue:

This issue guest stars Captain America. It seems it was a “test run”, as starting in issue #59 the book gets split into two shorter stories, one continuing Iron Man’s adventures and the other featuring Captain America. Within a few months, every Marvel hero is going to have their own title, or split a title with another hero (Tales to Astonish featuring Giant-Man and the Wasp will add a Hulk feature. Amazing Tales starring the Human Torch will add the Thing, with an additional regular feature with Dr. Strange).

In this issue:

Kraven the Hunter and the Chameleon are smuggled back into the U.S. Almost immediately, Kraven is captured by Iron Man, as the entry point for them was a Stark Corp. factory. What terrible luck for Kraven. Thereafter, Captain America tells Iron Man about his battle with the Chameleon and how he barely escaped. But it turns out it was the Chameleon disguised as Captain America. Iron Man was fooled, and he goes after the real Cap and fights him. They eventually figure out the truth, while the Chameleon is captured by Giant-Man and the Wasp.

Assumed before the next episode:

The Avengers likely start seriously thinking about their security set up - and whether they should learn each others’ secret identities.

This episode takes place:

After the Chameleon has been captured.

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.superserious616.com

Episode 156: Fan Club Risk Factors (Amazing Spider-Man #17) -- October 1964 Apr 21, 2022

Show notes

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the creation, and dissolution, of the Spider-Man fan club. What types of risks are teenagers taking on by joining a superhero fan club? How often will these fan clubs be targeted by supervillains? Does the hero showing up at a meeting protect the club from attacks, or act as a magnet that makes the attacks happen to begin with? Also: Is the Human Torch a fan of Spider-Man, or did he just show up to protect the club members because he knew that Spider-Man wouldn’t? And why is Spider-Man so afraid of the Green Goblin?

Behind the comic:

This issue ends with Spider-Man running away from the Green Goblin so that he can save his Aunt May. Since no one else knows the reason, this makes the public think that Spider-Man is a coward. Most of the issues at this time “reset” things by the end of the issue so that things go back to the status quo the next issue. But in this case, Stan Lee carries over the “people think Spider-Man is a coward” bit into issue #18. It is another example of Peter Parker not getting any breaks.

In this issue:

Flash Thompson has started a Spider-Man fan club. Ironically, Flash is rude to Spider-Man when he is in his secret identity, Peter Parker. In any event, Spider-Man interrupts a movie shoot, thinking that he was stopping a crime, which does not win him any fans. Other than in his new fan club, which Spider-Man attends in an effort to dazzle and impress. The Green Goblin shows up at the fan club and attacks Spider-Man, putting everyone at risk. The Human Torch joins the fray. Mid-fight, Spider-Man overhears that his Aunt May is in the hospital after a heart attack, which causes him to race away, leaving the Human Torch to fight the Green Goblin on his own. Everyone but Flash Thompson thinks that Spider-Man is a coward.

Assumed before the next episode:

People think that Spider-Man is a no good coward. We know they could not be more wrong, but what can you do?

This episode takes place:

After the Human Torch has chased the Green Goblin away.

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.superserious616.com

Episode 155: Death and Secret Identities (Avengers #9) -- October 1964 Apr 18, 2022

Show notes

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the death of Wonder Man. He joined the Avengers and died before his joining was even announced. It is hard to mourn someone you never knew, but his death leads to many questions about how things are handled for superheroes with secret identities. Is the government involved in creating a cover story for a civilian identity? Is StarkCorp? Who is told about the identity before death? What processes kick into place when the death happens? Have these things been planned for, or are the Avengers operating off the seat of their pants? Will they be better prepared when the next hero dies?

Behind the comic:

This is the first appearance of Wonder Man. He is introduced as a villain, but dies a hero. It is later revealed that his brain waves were saved and he is brought back to life (multiple times) in different artificial bodies, eventually becoming a hero and member of the West Coast Avengers in the 1980s. He may also be the only hero whose opposite sex version is owned by a different company. All the Bat-heroes are DC. All the Spider-heroes are Marvel. But the Wonder-heroes are split between the two companies. Wonder Man and Wonder Woman may never meet…

In this issue:

Simon Williams is arrested for embezzlement - and blames Tony Stark. Seemingly for this sole reason, the Masters of Evil decide that Simon will make for the perfect pawn in their fight against the Avengers. They experiment on him, granting him amazing powers. He is named Wonder Man and dispatched to integrate into the Avengers, which he does by joining a staged fight with the Masters of Evil. Wonder Man is admitted to the Avengers, and they treat him as one of their own. The team then fights the Masters of Evil again, and Wonder Man shows his true colours by fighting the Avengers. He eventually flips back and joins the Avengers, helping save them from the Masters of Evil, although he is killed in the process.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are wondering how rigorous the Avengers admission process truly is.

This episode takes place:

After Wonder Man develops his strange powers, joins the Avengers, betrays the Avengers, rejoins the Avengers, and dies.

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.superserious616.com

Episode 154: Super Coordination (Amazing Spider-man Annual #1) -- October 1964 Apr 14, 2022

Show notes

In This Episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the new super villainous team the Sinister Six. How did Spider-man manage to defeat six arch-nemesises at the same time? First heroes joined together for mutual protection, now more and more villains are doing the same. Do the heroes need to step up their game to be one step ahead? Why are is the Fantastic Four still communicating through sky writing? And why does anyone need to take an ad out in a newspaper to get in touch with a super hero?

Behind the Comic

This was the first giant-sized annual for Spider-man and Lee decided to go all out. It was the first appearance of the Sinister Six, but the issue also had cameos from Dr Strange, the Avengers, the Fantastic Four and the X-men - along with plugs for their respective titles. It was superhero tale as blatant cross-promotion. The end of the issue was filler art - pin ups of Spider-man, how his powers worked, and a page each to every villain he fought in his history - starting with “Burglar”.

In This Issue

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.superserious616.com

Episode 153: The World Fair (Journey Into Mystery #109) -- October 1964 Apr 11, 2022

Show notes

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the World Fair. Yes, it had an exhibit on superheroes, but why wasn’t there an exhibit on alien races? Or undersea civilizations? Or underground civilizations? Or other dimensions? Why weren’t there demonstrations of the FantasticCar or Iron Man-type armor? It seems like a missed opportunity. Also: Why was Daredevil in the superhero exhibit? Can anyone get a statue as long as they put on a mask and punch people?

Behind the comic:

The World Fair was a big deal in 1964, and Stan Lee used it as the backdrop in a number of issues around this time. The main plot line of this issue (which is not discussed in the episode) was the battle between Thor and Magneto. It is interesting that while every hero has their own rogues gallery of villains, Lee does not hesitate to, every once and a while, cross villains. Dr. Doom (FF villain) fought Spider-Man. Loki (Thor) battled Dr. Strange. And Electro (Spider-Man) battled Daredevil. Magneto is a little different, in that his rivalry with the X-Men was almost absolute. There are only a handful of the early issues where he does not appear. He barely has time to do battle with anyone else. This is the first time he does (and even here, the entire X-Men team make a guest appearance).

In this issue:

the World Fair is on, and they have an exhibit displaying a good number of American superheroes. Meanwhile, Magneto sends his minions to find the X-Men while he decides to test his mettle on New York City. Thor leaps into action after witnessing the mayhem created by Magneto using his powers to lift cars in the air, among other things. Thor battles Magneto, who fails to turn him to his cause, and yet Magneto is able to get away.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are wondering why the World Fair does not have exhibits on aliens, gods, or monsters.

This episode takes place:

After Thor defeats Magneto.

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.superserious616.com

Episode 152: Trial By Combat (Fantastic Four #31) -- October 1964 Apr 07, 2022

Show notes

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the return of the Mole Man. Reed Richards was NOT lying to us, but he WAS a little incompetent, trying to seal the underground-man underground… Didn’t work so well now did it, Reed? During the encounter, the Avengers and the Fantastic Four got in a dispute that led to a physical confrontation. Mike and Ed discuss both the legal and moral implications of heroes settling their disputes with fisticuffs. Also: Should we negotiate with super-terrorists?

Behind the comic:

Sue is taken hostage… again… It is a trope now that when heroes first meet, they fight before they settle their differences and team up. But back in the early 60s the tropes did not yet exist - Lee and Kirby were making things up as they went along. Any kid who read superhero comics wants to know things like, “who is stronger, the Thing or the Hulk?” and “Who would win in a fight, Spider-Man or Superman?” These comics set things up to help answer those questions. It had been done before and it will happen again, but the mass audience does not seem to be tired of it (it was repeated again in the first Avengers film).

In this issue:

Earthquakes plague New York City, and the Fantastic Four are drawn to investigate. They discover that their original nemesis, the Mole Man, is back, and he is the cause of the earthquakes. The Mole Man kidnaps entire city blocks, and ensnares Sue “Invisible Girl” Storm. The remaining members of the team attempt to rescue Sue, but are defeated. The Mole Man informs them that if they try to attack again, Sue will pay the price. The three return to the surface, and the Avengers then arrive. The Avengers refuse to listen to Reed Richards and head off to fight the Mole Man. The remaining members of the Fantastic Four are forced to fight the Avengers to prevent them from antagonizing the Mole Man, for fear he will kill Sue. Calmer heads prevail, and Reed then has time to cobble together devices that they will need to fight the Mole Man, which they do. Unfortunately, Sue sustains a head injury in the fight, and the only person who can save her is her disgraced surgeon father, who recently escaped from prison. He performs the operation and saves his daughter, but at the cost of his freedom.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are wondering if now is the time to leave New York City, rather than stick around and see if their city block will be dragged below the surface of the Earth.

This episode takes place:

After the Mole Man has been defeated.

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.superserious616.com

Episode 151: Existential Threats (Tales to Astonish #59) -- September 1964 Apr 04, 2022

Show notes

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the detonation of a nuclear bomb on American soil. The bomb was meant to be used against the Hulk. Is that an acceptable use? Will this lower the taboo on the use of nuclear weapons? Is the Hulk more of a threat than a nuclear winter? What about other existential threats? Also: What type of jail could hold the Hulk? And why is the answer inter-dimensional?

Behind the comic:

At this point in Marvel history, Stan Lee is using the Hulk increasingly as a supporting character. The Hulk’s own title failed, but he is becoming a draw when paired with other heroes. In a few months, Lee will add the Hulk as a regular second feature in Tales to Astonish. This issue was (we think) a trial run.

In this issue:

Davy “The Human Top” Cannon conspires to take his nemesis Giant-Man down. Meanwhile, Giant-Man and the Wasp head to New Mexico in an effort to track and take down the Hulk. The Human Top tracks the Hulk down first and warns him that Giant-Man is on the way. The Hulk and Giant-Man then meet up and fight. The Army launches an atomic missile at the Hulk. The Wasp warns Giant-Man of the incoming missile, who informs the Hulk about it. The Hulk heroically intercepts the missile.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are wondering whether the Hulk survived an atomic weapon, and what that could mean.

This episode takes place:

After Giant-Man’s battle with the Hulk.

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.superserious616.com

Episode #150: Charitable fronts (Amazing Spider-Man #16) -- September 1964 Mar 31, 2022

Show notes

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss Spider-Man’s charitable work. His first charitable event turns out to be a front for organized crime. Was that coincidence? Bad luck? Or was Spider-Man working undercover from the beginning? To avoid these situations, should Spider-Man only work for well-established charities? Would that just mean the large charities get larger, and the small innovative ones are shut out? There are no easy answers, but that does not stop our hosts from asking questions!

Behind the comic:

The first Daredevil crossover and the first time he interacts with Spider-Man! Unfortunately, everything Daredevil does in this issue is unseen by the audience (who are in a trance), so he gets no credit in our episode. Also notable, this is the second appearance of the Ringmaster and the Circus of Crime. They first appeared in the Hulk, where it appeared that they were captured and detained by the authorities. Stan Lee does not even bother explaining why they are back in action and fully united. Maybe he was tired of always providing two pages of “criminal escapes from prison” before he bringing back an old villain.

In this issue:

Spider-Man rescues Matt Murdock from street thugs, not realizing that Matt is actually the costumed vigilante Daredevil. That evening, Matt and his co-workers Foggy Nelson and Karen Page go to the circus, not realizing it is the criminal mastermind the Ringmaster’s Circus of Crime. The Ringmaster advertises that Spider-Man will be appearing at the circus that night. This is a lie designed to get more people to attend the circus so that the Ringmaster and his thugs can rob them while they are hypnotized by the Ringmaster. Spider-Man, seeing the ad, decides to attend, as it looks suspicious. At the circus, Spider-Man and the crowd are hypnotized. Matt Murdock is not hypnotized, as it is apparently a visual hypnosis, and Matt is blind, such that it does not work on him. He changes into his Daredevil costume and fights a hypnotized Spider-Man, ultimately breaking him out of his hypnotic trance. The duo then take down the Ringmaster and his gang.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are starting to wonder about superhero advertising.

This episode takes place:

After the Ringmaster has been taken down.

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.superserious616.com

Episode 149: Diabolic Fraud! (Fantastic Four #30) -- September 1964 Mar 28, 2022

Show notes

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss the largest fraud every committed: Diablo has conned people, businesses and governments around the world with his phony potions and technology. Now that he has been entombed in his castle in Transylvania, how will the victims of his fraud be made whole from what was stolen from them? Mike believes the answer is lawsuits, but given the scale of the fraud, how long will that take? And who are we suing when the criminal is an immortal hidden away in an isolated castle? Do we even know where the money is being kept?

Behind the comic:

This issue introduces Diablo, who seemed to be inspired by Dracula. But in later continuity, Dracula himself becomes a Marvel character and Diablo builds out his own villainous niche. The issue ends with Diablo being trapped “forever” in his castle, but he ends up being freed by Dr. Doom within four months (just in time for Reed and Sue’s wedding). But that is a story for another episode…

In this issue:

The Fantastic Four decide to go on vacation in Transylvania, traveling in their superhero costumes and somehow becoming lost in the mountains. They stumble across a mysterious castle, and despite being warned by the local mayor that they should not enter this castle which, according to legend, has been the prison of the evil alchemist Diablo for the past 100 years, they decide to waltz in and spend the night. The Thing is bewitched by Diablo in the middle of the night and frees the dreaded immortal sorcerer Diablo, who then becomes the world’s richest person from the sales of miraculous cures, potions, and the like. Reed Richards figures out that Diablo’s miracles are really fakes and frauds, but it is too late for the many victims around the world who fell for Diablo’s worldwide scam. The world declares Diablo public enemy #1, leading armies and also the Fantastic Four to attack Diablo in his stronghold. After a fierce fight, the Fantastic Four is able to take Diablo down and trap him in his castle once more.

Assumed before the next issue:

People are wondering which class action to join in an attempt to get their money back.

This episode takes place:

After Diablo has been defeated… for now.

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.superserious616.com

Episode 148: Worker Safety (Tales of Suspense #57) -- September 1964 Mar 24, 2022

Show notes

In this episode:

Mike and Ed discuss workplace safety issues at StarkCorp. A man was saved by Iron Man, but is that an acceptable solution? Iron Man can’t be standing on duty at every plant. Using superheroes as safety supervisors seems like negligence combined with “putting a patch on it”. Too often it seems that the world’s problems are being “patched” by superheroes. We need to solve the root causes.

Behind the comic:

This is Hawkeye’s first appearance, in which he is billed as an “archvillain”, although his only public role is limited to a heist of a jewelry store, which is not commented on in the episode. What is interesting is that he is working with (being manipulated by?) the Black Widow, with whom he is smitten. How much of their partnership in the MCU is based on this first appearance in which they are “partners”?

In this issue:

Iron Man saves a Stark Corp. worker from a workplace accident. After doing that, Tony Stark decides to take his assistant Pepper Potts on a date, which is interrupted by another malfunction which puts lives in danger, leading Tony to change into his Iron Man armour and save the day again. Meanwhile, a circus performer decides to become a costumed adventurer, and thus begins the career of (eventually legendary) Hawkeye. He intercepts a robber but is mistaken by the police as being part of the robbery. Hawkeye escapes and is picked up by the Black Widow. She convinces him to help him defeat Iron Man. Hawkeye attacks Iron Man and holds his own for a while, although ultimately Iron Man comes out on top. Hawkeye escapes, with an injured Black Widow.

Assumed before the next episode:

People are wondering how much Iron Man gets paid to act as a workplace safety supervisor.

This episode takes place:

After Iron Man defeats Hawkeye.

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.superserious616.com

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