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    Fiction

    What If Marvel was Real?

    What if… the Marvel Universe was real?

    In 1961 the Fantastic Four revealed themselves to the world and everything changed. Mike and Ed discuss the in-universe implications of super powers, aliens, monsters and more. From how Avenger Insurance will pay for Thor’s property damage to why Spider-man needs a new PR agency, its comic books discussions in a whole new way.

    Every issue covered in the Marvel Universe from the very beginning.

    Full backstory on every episode with transcripts at www.SuperSerious616.com

    www.superserious616.com

    Advertise

    Copyright: © Edward Nevraumont

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    Latest Episodes:
    Episode 137: Does Evil Exist? (Avengers #6) -- July 1964 Feb 14, 2022
    Show notes

    In this episode:

    Mike and Ed discuss the nature of evil. Does even the most villainous criminal truly think of themselves as “Evil”? Is being amoral the same as being evil, or is that just selfish? When a group of criminals call themselves the “Masters of Evil”, how should we interpret that? Does it matter that their leader is a former Nazi? Once you signed up to work for a Nazi, you must at least be admitting somewhat to yourself that you are evil. Also: How do we know which supervillains are redeemable?

    Behind the comic:

    For the first couple of years of the Silver Age, Stan Lee was creating new villains for the heroes to fight every month. Then he started bringing the villains he liked back for re-matches. This issue is the culmination of that trend. It brings back three villains who have fought individual Avengers to fight group vs group. One neat twist is that the villains initially fight the Avenger that they had fought in the past, but then during the re-match the Avengers mix it up and go after villains who are not properly matched for their abilities. For instance, Melter is dangerous against Iron Man, but there is not much he can do against Giant-Man.

    The villains are brought together under the leadership of Baron Zemo. The issue hints that Zemo was an archenemy of Captain America during WWII, and was responsible for the death of Bucky. This is all “Retroactive Continuity”. Zemo was a new villain created in the 1960s, and then given this backstory (just like the story of Bucky dying and Captain America being frozen in ice was a retro-continuity invented in Avengers #4). Zemo clearly goes on to be an important character, and a version is used as the primary antagonist in the MCU film Captain America: Civil War.

    In this issue:

    Captain America shows off his new “magnetized” shield/glove combo that allows him to basically control his shield in ways that would otherwise seem to defy the laws of physics. Meanwhile, Zemo relays his backstory to one of his agents, explaining how his mask was glued to his face during a fight with Captain America in WWII. The action then kicks into high gear, with the Black Knight flying through the city, spraying an adhesive around, causing vehicles to stick to the roads, boats to be stuck in the water, and all around causing some sticky business in the city. At the same time, the Melter melts the ground, making it sticky, too. And the Radioactive Man is radiating around, also causing things to get sticky. The Avengers meet the challenge, battling the villains in the street. Zemo joins the fray. The Avengers are tied up in sticky stuff, and retreat. They reach out to Paste Pot Pete in prison for advice on how to fix the sticky problem they face, and he directs them to a super-dissolver that he has which can dissolve any adhesive. This helps the Avengers unstick, and return to the battle with Zemo and his cronies. The Avengers are then able to defeat this group, who call themselves the Masters of Evil.

    Assumed before the next episode:

    Other supervillains are thinking about creating a supervillain group.

    This episode takes place:

    After the Masters of Evil have been defeated.


    This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.superserious616.com

    Episode 136: Home Invasions and CYA (Strange Tales #122) -- July 1964 Feb 10, 2022
    Show notes

    In this episode:

    Mike and Ed discuss the second home invasion against the Human Torch in less than a month. How long until Reed installs security? What type of security is needed to protect against superhuman threats? Also: When should a superhero request help from the authorities and when is it more appropriate to go it alone?

    Behind the comic:

    Strange Tales continues to split the issue between the Human Torch (one of the most popular characters at the time) and Dr. Strange (whom Stan Lee was trying to make popular). We don’t cover Dr. Strange very much in Super Serious because almost all of his adventures take place in other dimensions or completely cut off from the rest of the world. This issue was no exception.

    In this issue:

    Remember the three ordinary people who were given powers by Dr. Doom? Well, they’ve decided that, despite Doom having disappeared (lost in space), they should take on the Fantastic Four. They kidnap Johnny “Human Torch” Storm, although he escapes. The three superpowered gangsters are hanging out in Johnny’s place, waiting to ambush Sue “Invisible Girl” Storm. Johnny races to confront them, although he doesn’t think to loop in the authorities or his own teammates, notwithstanding that he was recently overpowered by these three criminals. Anyway, Johnny confronts the trio and defeats them.

    Assumed before the next episode:

    Reed is seriously thinking about installing a security system in the home of his fiancée and future brother-in-law.

    This episode takes place:

    After Johnny narrowly defeats the trio of soon to be forgotten superpowered thugs.


    This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.superserious616.com

    Episode 135: Technological Proliferation (Tales to Astonish #57) -- June 1964 Feb 07, 2022
    Show notes

    Check out the new section in the newsletter where we go “behind the comic” below!

    In this episode:

    Mike and Ed discuss how Egghead was able to use an ant surveillance network against Giant-Man himself. If Egghead can do it, how many other nefarious characters will be able to do what Ant-Man/Giant-Man did? We may or may not be comfortable with an Avenger surveilling the city, but we don’t want just anyone doing it. But now that the technology is known to exist, how long until it is available to any ambitious actor? How will we stop the Soviets from monitoring our entire country with insects? We couldn’t stop them from getting the A-bomb. Also: Can Spider-Man talk to spiders?

    Behind the comic:

    This is the first time Spider-Man meets Giant-Man and the Wasp. Initially, like many first encounters in comics, Giant-Man and Spider-Man fight, but the Wasp convinces the two men to stop. One might think that the Wasp is the more level-headed one in her partnership with Giant-Man. But then at the end of the issue, inexplicably, the Wasp decides that she hates Spider-Man. Why? Apparently, according to the Wasp, because wasps don’t like spiders. Spider-Man’s thought bubble has Peter claiming the same thing. It seems like Stan Lee was just trying to create a sense of conflict between the characters, but in so doing he suggests that somehow heroes take on the traits of their superhero names. This MIGHT make sense for Spider-Man, but the Wasp’s powers have nothing to do with actual “wasps". So any hatred of things wasps hate - because wasps hate them - must be the result of serious psychological issues…

    In this issue:

    Hank “Giant-Man” Pym arms Janet “the Wasp” Van Dyne with a compressed air gun - a wasp sting, if you will. Meanwhile, Egghead has been plotting his revenge on Giant-Man. His plan? To communicate with ants, as Giant-Man does, and have them provide misinformation to Giant-Man. The first misinformation that the ants feed Giant-Man leads to a misunderstanding with Spider-Man, and the two of them brawl in the city. The police are distracted by their fight, which allows Egghead and his goons to commit a robbery. Giant-Man eventually figures out what happened, and he and Spider-Man join the Wasp in taking Egghead and his thugs down.

    Assumed before the next episode:

    Giant-Man is going to need to tighten up his communication system with ants.

    This episode takes place:

    After Egghead is apprehended.


    This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.superserious616.com

    Episode 134: Betrayal! (Journey Into Mystery #106) -- June 1964 Feb 03, 2022
    Show notes

    In this episode:

    Mike and Ed discuss Dr. Donald Blake’s betrayal of Thor. Why did he do it? Was it purely Machiavellian? Did they plan it? How does Thor feel about Blake now - is he still going to act as his bodyguard, or does Blake need a new Avenger to protect him? Also: Cobra seems to have shifted strategies from turning the world into Cobras to smash and grabs. Why the reduced ambition? And what will we learn now that he is in custody?

    Behind the Comic:

    This was part two of a series. At this point in the continuity, Stan Lee has decided to both (1) Start re-using villains, and (2) Bring the villains together in team-ups to raise the stakes. It combines this new idea with many familiar Thor tropes: Thor’s hammer is taken away by a machine turning him into Donald Blake; and Blake appears to betray Thor (discussed in the episode), which drive him further apart from his love, Nurse Jane Foster.

    In this issue:

    Thor battles Cobra and Mr. Hyde. During the battle, he transforms into his mortal guise of Dr. Donald Blake and is separated from his cane, which prevents him from turning back into Thor. The villains threaten the crowd and, in an effort to save them, Dr. Blake tells the villains that he will take him to Thor. The crowd is angry about this betrayal by Dr. Blake. But it’s all a ruse to allow Dr. Blake to get back to his cane, tap it on the ground and turn back into the mighty Thor. Having transformed once more into a superpowered god, Thor battles the villains and defeats them. Unfortunately, the world, including in particular his beloved Jane, believes that Dr. Blake betrayed Thor, not knowing that they are one of the same. It is a sad state of affairs for Dr. Donald Blake/Thor.

    Assumed before the next episode:

    Dr. Donald Blake is public enemy numero uno. Or at least, he’s certainly not well liked as people think that he betrayed Thor.

    This episode takes place:

    After Dr. Donald Blake apparently betrayed Thor, who was still able to defeat Cobra and Mr. Hyde.


    This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.superserious616.com

    Episode 133: Superhero Fraud (Amazing Spider-Man #13) -- June 1964 Jan 31, 2022
    Show notes

    In this episode:

    Mike and Ed discuss the latest Spider-Man impersonator, “Mysterio”. It turns out Mysterio is NOT a hero, and has been impersonating Spider-Man’s wall-climbing and web-shooting abilities. He was only found out when Spider-Man recorded Mysterio’s confession. Is a recording like that legal? Just as it appears Mysterio was a fraud, couldn’t a tape-recorded confession also be fraudulent? Who can we trust?

    Behind the Issue:

    In this issue once again Spider-man has been impersonated for committing crimes. It is a trope that Lee goes back to again and again - and for good reason. The model for this title is making sure Spider-man has a “bad time” - things don’t go his way and he gets blamed for things that were not his fault. Having Spider-man be blamed for crimes he does not commit is a great way to do that. This issue is different and interesting for two reasons:

    * The Spider-man impersonator actually impersonates Spider-mans abilities - not just his costume (like the pervious impersonators)

    * Mysterio has his first appearance

    Mysterio was the primary antagonist in the film Spider-man Far From Home. In it he begins as a hero, before he is revealed as a fraud. What is interesting is how similar that is to his first appearance here. Mysterio goes out as the latest hero who shows the world how he can defeat the “Spider-man menace”. Spider-man gets the villain to reveal his secret plans (on tape no less), and in future appearances Mysterio is just a traditional villain. But it is interesting that the first time he appears in film, the writers went back to how he was portrayed in his very first appearance.

    In this issue:

    Spider-Man is seen robbing a business and escaping into the night. J. Jonah Jameson gleefully announces to the world that he was right all along about Spider-Man, who is now wanted by the police. Peter Parker know it wasn’t him, though, or does he? He actually wonders if he committed the crime in his sleep. In any event, the public has turned on Spider-Man. Meanwhile, Mysterio appears at the Daily Bugle and asks them to publish an invitation to Spider-Man to meet him at the top of the Brooklyn Bridge, which they do. Spider-Man meets Mysterio high above the city and they fight, with Mysterio easily defeating Spider-Man and knocking him into the river below. Spider-Man eventually tracks Mysterio down and battles him while he is unprepared. When it appears he has the upper hand, Mysterio gloats to Spider-Man, explaining how all of his “superpowers” are really just illusions which also allowed him to imitate Spider-Man’s abilities to commit crimes. Fortunately for the true webslinger, he caught Mysterio’s confession on tape, and after a fierce battle which Spider-Man wins, he brings Mysterio to justice by turning him over to the police, along with his tape-recorded confession.

    Assumed before the next episode:

    People are wondering if they should stop trusting the Daily Bugle.

    This episode takes place:

    After Spider-Man has defeated Mysterio and been exonerated.


    This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.superserious616.com

    Episode 132: The Bad Way to get Someone's Attention (Daredevil #2 & Fantastic Four #27) -- May-June 1964 Jan 27, 2022
    Show notes

    In this episode:

    Mike and Ed discuss how the newest vigilante, Daredevil, has quickly moved from battling common criminals to taking on supervillains. Also, what was his motivation for stealing the Fantasti-car? Is he trying to get the attention of a major superhero team, in the hopes of joining? Is he going to break into StarkCorp next? How should we feel about people without powers taking the law into their own hands?

    Behind the Issues:

    Daredevil #2 ups the stakes a little by having the hero battle a true supervillain rather than “common criminals”. Daredevil’s abilities become a little more impressive now as well. In issue #1 he was just “well trained” with enhanced hearing. This issue introduces his “radar sense” which effectively allows him to “see” everything close-by with 360-degree vision. DD also interacts with the Fantastic Four. Maybe there was negative feedback from putting the FF and Spider-man on the cover of issue #1 when they did not actually appear in the issue.

    The Fantastic Four issue mostly takes place behind closed doors, so it is barely mentioned in the episode. It is notable though for the first guest appearance by Dr Strange in the title. Strange is unusual at this point because his magic-stuff in his own issues is very self-contained from the wider world. But Lee has clearly seen the value in having his heroes cross-over. The hope was that Strange’s appearance here would boost sales of Strange Tales (Where Strange gets half the book - but the covers are still focused on the Human Torch).

    In these issues:

    Daredevil #2

    Ben “The Thing” Grimm retains the law firm Nelson and Murdock about an issue with their building lease. Unbeknownst to him, attorney Matt Murdock is the costumed vigilante Daredevil. This matters because Matt was too busy fighting the supervillain Electro as Daredevil to deal with this lease issue (come on, Matt - don’t quit your day job; seriously, you need it).

    Daredevil’s fight with Electro was a battle for the ages. It included Electro, while trying to rob the Fantastic Four while they were away from the Baxter Building, beating Daredevil, loading an unconscious Daredevil into the Fantastic Four’s space ship, launching it into space, and Daredevil (who is blind) piloting the ship back to Earth, safely landing in Central Park. Then, Daredevil stole a horse, raced to a helicopter launch pad, grabbed onto a departing helicopter, and then dropping into the Baxter Building through a skylight to continue his battle with Electro. Ultimately, Daredevil wins the fight, and Electro is taken away by the cops. But Matt lost the building lease file.

    Fantastic Four #27

    Namor the Sub-Mariner is obsessing over Sue “Invisible Girl” Storm in his undersea kingdom. He decides that he must win her over, which leads to him breaking into the Baxter Building and fighting the Fantastic Four. After taking care of the Thing and the Human Torch, he pleads his case to Sue, and she rejects him. Undeterred, he knocks her unconscious with sleeping gas and steals her away to his kingdom. Reed Richards then arrives home and completely loses it when he hears that Namor has kidnapped Sue. He races off, on his own, to rescue her. Ben and Johnny are worried about Reed going off on his own and decide to enlist Dr. Strange for help. Johnny does that by writing a message to Dr. Strange in the sky in fiery letters. Dr. Strange meets up with Ben and Johnny in astral form and offers to locate Sue. He finds her being held prisoner in Namor’s undersea kingdom. At the same time, Reed busts into Namor’s palace and attacks Namor, who fights him off along with the help of his solders. Ben and Johnny come to Reed’s aid, and they battle on until Sue puts an end to the fight with an invisible shield. She then explains to Namor that she loves Reed.

    Assumed before the next episode:

    People are excited about this new superhero, Daredevil, who lives up to his name.

    This episode takes place:

    After Daredevil has defeated Electro.


    This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.superserious616.com

    Episode 131: When Titans Tussle (Tales of Suspense #53) - May 1964 Jan 24, 2022
    Show notes

    In this episode:

    Mike and Ed discuss the recent intense posturing by Senators and industrialists. Tony Stark has been accused of disloyalty by allowing a new weapon to fall into the hands of the Soviets. When Iron Man sets things “right”, Stark immediately claims that the weapon cannot be duplicated and that the US military cannot have it either. Is Tony Stark too powerful? OR is he trying to strike a fine balance between working with the government and acting as a bulwark against its power?

    Behind the Comic

    The second appearance of the Black Widow. She is back working for the Soviets. Any hint that she will one day become a hero is totally absent. Her defining traits seem to be sneakiness, beauty and charm - definitely not any fighting skills. Meanwhile, if Spider-man’s “human” issues center around being misunderstood and unlucky, Tony Stark’s issues seem to be being blamed by Senators every time the Soviets or aliens, or other civilizations do something to his company. Funny how billionaire corporate leader as government scapegoat has changed so little in 80 years.

    In this issue:

    Tony Stark invites an anti-gravity machine after months of work, arranging the circuits at random to the point that he could not recreate the invention if he tried (which is very odd). Black Widow, who is a Russian secret agent out in the cold, decides to steal the anti-gravity machine as a way to work herself back into the good gracious of her former spymasters. She ingratiates herself with Tony Stark and then steals the device from him. Iron Man tracks her down and ultimately destroys the anti-gravity weapon, which is preferable in his mind to letting the Russians get it.

    Assumed before the next episode:

    People wonder why Tony Stark did not at least keep notes.

    This episode takes place:

    After Tony Stark’s dedication to his country is weirdly questioned by the US government for a problem he did not exactly create.


    This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.superserious616.com

    Episode 130: Supervillains in the Bedroom (Strange Tales #121) -- May 1964 Jan 20, 2022
    Show notes

    In this episode:

    Mike and Ed discuss Plantman’s attack on Johnny Storm in his own bedroom. Can we trust criminals to not attack heroes when they are sleeping? Why didn’t Reed Richards install better security? How can we prevent crimes like this in the future? Who is more at risk, superheroes or criminal prosecutors? Is this why heroes who have appeared after the Fantastic Four have been keeping secret identities, and if so, who can blame them?

    Behind the Issue

    Lee brings back Plantman for his second appearance. Now, in addition to communicating and controlling plants, Plantman can give plants “superhuman” [superplant?] abilities. This is part of a broader trend where the power levels of characters (both heroes and villains) inches up over time.

    In this issue:

    The villainous Plantman has figured out how to mutate plants into powerful weapons. Armed with this strange power, Plantman captures Johnny Storm, in his bedroom in Glenville, and locks him in his closet. He then goes on a crime spree, safe in the knowledge that teenager Johnny “the Human Torch” Storm is safely locked in his bedroom closet. Johnny escapes his closet, but it’s too late - Plantman has escaped after committing his robberies. Plantman then challenges Johnny to a fight in the Botanical Gardens. Johnny accepts and soundly defeats the villain.

    Assumed before the next episode:

    People are wondering about their own safety, given that a superpowered hero such as the Human Torch can be attacked in his own home.

    This episode takes place:

    After Johnny has defeated Plantman once more. And likely upped his home security system.


    This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.superserious616.com

    Episode 129: Avenger for me but not for thee (Tales to Astonish #56) -- May 1964 Jan 17, 2022
    Show notes

    In this episode:

    Mike and Ed discuss Giant-Man’s return to mass surveillance. How far does his ant network go? Is the entire country being monitored? The entire world? Now that Giant-Man is part of the Avengers, is his surveillance technology being shared with StarkCorp and the US Military? Also, why has he shifted from organized crime to petty larceny? Do only rich people get the help of the Avengers?

    Beyond the Issue

    The villain in this issue is a common-criminal who also happens to be a stage magician. While Dr Strange has made it clear that magic exists in the Marvel Universe, in this case “The Magician” just uses parlor tricks and sleight of hand to confuse and distract. He is slightly similar to Miracle Man from Fantastic Four #3, only without MM’s super powered hypnosis. It is also yet another example of the Wasp being captured requiring rescue from Giant Man.

    In this issue:

    Hank Pym (Giant-Man) plans to propose to his partner in super-heroism, Janet Van Dyne (the Wasp). But before he pops the question, Janet makes him jealous by going to a party where she expects another man to propose. Meanwhile, Hank’s ant surveillance system picks up the Magician, whom Hank suspects is a criminal. Turns out he is right, and that the Magician has been robbing high society parties. Han decides to set up a complicated sting operation, along with the police, that involves setting up a high society party on a boat, and another one on a decoy boat that is meant to attract the Magician and his crew. The plan works, and thus begins the battle between Giant-Man and the Wasp vs. the Magician. The Magician is soundly defeated.

    Assumed before the next episode:

    People are wondering if they are being used as bait for sting operations.

    This episode takes place:

    After the Magician has been laid low by the combined powers of Giant-Man and the Wasp.


    This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.superserious616.com

    Episode 128: When Super Villains Take Our Advice (Amazing Spider-Man #12) -- May 1964 Jan 13, 2022
    Show notes

    In this episode:

    Mike and Ed discuss Dr. Octavius’s rampage across the country - and how no superheroes even attempted to stop him. If you commit a crime outside of New York City, did the crime even happen? And why, after all his success in places like Chicago and Dallas, did Doc Ock return to NYC? Will the ego of supervillains be their downfall? Also, to be clear, This is not legal advice for future supercriminals!

    Behind the Issue

    As we discuss in the episode this is one of the few examples of a super villain targeting cities outside New York. It is an iconic cover, and the first (of many) times that Spider-man was unmasked. This time Spider-mam went into the fight so weak his powers did not work, so when he was unmasked everyone assumed Peter was just trying to impress the girl. The issue also advances Peter’s first love interest with Betty Brant. Here Pete is about to share his secret with her before she tells him that she can’t stand the sight of Spider-man. More bad luck for Peter…

    In this issue:

    Dr. Octopus is on the run, engaging in a crime spree along the East Coast. He seems to be motivated about taking Spider-Man on again, though, and plans to return to New York City to confront him. He ends up doing that, and when they battle, Spider-Man unfortunately has the flu and is easily bested by Doc Ock. Spider-Man is unmasked and revealed to be Peter Parker. Everyone assumes that Peter was just dressed up as Spider-Man and not the real deal. Doc Ock leaves, frustrated that the “real” Spider-Man did not show up to battle him. Eventually, Spider-Man fights Doc Ock and, after an intense battle, takes a villain down.

    Assumed before the next episode:

    People are wondering why supercriminals keep attacking New York City.

    This episode takes place:

    After Spider-Man has beaten Doc Ock.


    This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.superserious616.com

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