Spiritual Life and Leadership

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119. Being Leaders of Grace in a Divided World, with Kirsten Powers, author of Saving Grace Jan 04, 2022

Show notes

Saving Grace, by Kirsten Powers, addresses the challenge of leadership in a divided world. How can we be people of grace when we are surrounded by so much ungrace?
As a USA Today columnist and senior political analyst for CNN—and a committed follower of Jesus—Kirsten Powers comes at this challenge as someone who has had to wrestle with her own tendency toward ungrace.
In this interview, Kirsten Powers gives us some really important wisdom on the subject of grace, ungrace, dividedness, and wholeness.
THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCUDE:

Kirsten Powers is CNN senior political analyst and USA today columnist and author of Saving Grace.
Falling Upward by Richard Rohr was a very formative book for Kirsten in recent years.
Kirsten Powers grew up with a minimal faith background, but came to faith at Redeemer Presbyterian Church, pastored by Tim Keller. Eventually, Kirsten converted to Catholicism.
After reading Falling Upward, Kirsten realized that she engaged in a lot of hyper-dualistic thinking.
After 2016, Kirsten Powers had to wrestle with how she perceived and understood people she disagreed with politically.
Kirsten had a difficult time figuring out how to love her enemies. Eventually, she realized she had to let go of dualistic thinking.
Grace gives people the space to not be you.
Establishing boundaries with people has been a key practice that has helped Kirsten express grace toward others.
Judgment will quickly lead to contempt, which will pretty quickly lead to hatred.
Grace requires effort. Grace is a practice.
Good behavior toward others is not necessarily evidence of grace. Grace is about how we think of others internally.
You can follow Kirsten Powers on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter.

RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:

Kirsten Powers:
Books mentioned:
- Saving Grace by Kirsten Powers
- Falling Upward by Richard Rohr
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118. Forecasting and Innovation, with Tom Sine and Dwight Friesen, co-authors of 2020s Foresight Dec 21, 2021

Show notes

Dwight Friesen and Tom Sine coach and consult with churches in the area of foresight and innovation. They are alo co-authors of 2020s Foresight: Three Vital Practices for Thriving in a Decade of Accelerating Change.
There’s no denying that the world just keeps changing and it feels like the church is constantly playing catch-up.
But here’s the thing. We can’t keep playing catch up. We have to start asking not, “How do we need to change to be the church for today?” But, “How do we need to change to be the church for tomorrow?”
In this episode, I’m speaking with Tom Sine and Dwight Friesen about their book, 2020s Foresight. We talk about the importance of anticipating the future, engaging our “shalomic imagination,” and how to practically begin the work of forecasting.
THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:

Tom Sine is a consultant with churches in the area of foresight and innovation and the co-author of 2020s Foresight.
Dwight Friesen is the Associate Professor of Practical Theology at the Seattle School of Theology and Psychology and co-author of 2020s Foresight.
Tom Sine studied under Frank Herbert, the author of Dune, who eventually became a friend and mentor to Tom.
Most churches’ strategic planning is very inward focused, failing to attend to what is going on in the world around them.
The 3-part framework of probability forecasting includes anticipating, reflecting, and innovating.
Whenever there is a crisis, we need to ask what we are being invited to anticipate.
Pastors can start the work of forecasting by intentionally learning from business leaders in their congregations.
People in churches don’t generally fear change; they fear loss.
Dwight explains what he means by “shalomic imagination.”
Tom Sine and Dwight Friesen explain how a pastor can, very practically, begin to engage in the work of forecasting.
Tom Sine is available to meet with study groups via Zoom to discuss 2020s Foresight. Simply e-mail him at twsine@gmail.com.

RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:

Books:
- 2020s Foresight, by Tom Sine and Dwight Friesen
- The Mustard Seed Conspiracy, by Tom Sine
- The New Parish, by Dwight Friesen, Paul Sparks, and Tim Soerens
Websites:
Inhabit Conference:
- https://theseattleschool.edu/event/inhabit-conference/
Church Leadership Institute
Related episodes:
- Rhythms of Leadership, Episode 6: Shalomic Action, with Tom Sine and Dwight Friesen
- Rhythms of Leadership, Ep 19: When the Status Quo is No Longer Tolerable

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117. Leading with Courage and Integrity in Times of Discontinuous Change Dec 07, 2021

Show notes

It is really hard to be a church leader these days, isn’t it? The world we live in today is not the world we prepared for as ministry leaders—especially in light of everything we’ve been through over the last couple of years.

So, what do you do when you find yourself essentially thrust into a world for which you weren’t prepared? What do you do when all the rules have changed? What do you do in a time of what some call discontinuous change?
In this episode, Markus Watson unpacks the meaning of discontinuous change and--using Joseph, the husband of Mary, as an example--how we are called to live and lead in the midst of such change.
THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDES:

Markus Watson explains the meaning of discontinuous change.
- Continuous change is change that is expected and understood.
- Discontinuous change is a kind of change that is different from anything anyone has experienced before.
The world has experienced severe discontinuous change over the last couple of years, especially with regard to the coronavirus pandemic and the outcry for racial justice.
Joseph, the husband of Mary, experienced extreme discontinuous change.
- Being to called to parent the Son of God was huge experience of discontinuous change.
Joseph accepted the call. He lived and led with courage and integrity.
Joseph also led adaptively.
We, too, are called to lead with courage and integrity.
We, too, are called to lead adaptively in discontinuous times.
Leading with courage means stepping out of your comfort zone.
Leading with integrity means leading from your true self.
The world needs a church with the capacity to bring healing and wholeness even in times of discontinuous change.

RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:

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116. Power, Vulnerability, Rest, with Tod Bolsinger, Executive Director of the Church Leadership Institute Nov 23, 2021

Show notes

When Jesus told his disciples that "whoever wants to be great among you must be your servant, and whoever wants to be first must be your slave," that was an incredibly counter-cultural statement.
It's unfortunate that the church has often rejected this teaching and, instead, has sought to "lord it over' those around them.
In this episode, Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson reflect on the themes of power, vulnerability, and rest.
THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:

Tod Bolsinger is the Executive Director of Fuller Theological Seminary’s Church Leadership Institute.
Clip #1: Episode 82: Narcissism and Spiritual Leadership, with Chuck DeGroat.
Chuck DeGroat discusses the way the church has often aligned itself with structures of power and have lost the sense of participating in the suffering of Jesus.
One of the great temptations for leaders is believing that power will solve the problem.
Clip #2: Episode 36: The Vulnerable Pastor, with Mandy Smith.
Mandy Smith explores what it means to live in and embrace vulnerability.
Limitation is a ministry resource.
Strength in leadership is forged in vulnerable self-reflection.
Clip #3: Episode 70: The Subversiveness of Sabbath, with AJ Swoboda.
A.J. Swoboda discusses the ways that Sabbath actually helps us be healthier human beings.
The Sabbath is a rhythm that helps us be who we were meant to be.
Leaders need to live in the reality that we are at our best when we embrace our limitations.
We often need to have boundaries against our own people.
Sabbath practice helps us be the kind of leaders who can help our churches experience a foretaste of the new creation.
To become the kind of person who leads out of healthy vulnerability, check out this course taught by Tod Bolsinger: Tempered Resilience for Leading Change

RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:

Church Leadership Institute
Course: Tempered Resilience for Leading Change
Related Books:
- Tempered Resilience, by Tod Bolsinger
- When Narcissism Comes to Church, by Chuck DeGroat
- The Vulnerable Pastor, by Mandy Smith
- Subversive Sabbath, by A.J. Swoboda
Related episodes:

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115. Poverty Alleviation and Spiritual Leadership, with Rob Gailey, author of Development in Mission Nov 09, 2021

Show notes

Rob Gailey is Professor of Business and Director of the Center for International Development at Point Loma Nazarene University, as well as the co-author of Development in Mission: A Guide for Transforming Global Poverty and Ourselves.
The issue of poverty alleviation is probably one of the most challenging issues, not only for the church, but for the world in general. As both a missionary and a business professor, Rob Gailey brings a wealth of experience and wisdom to this topic.
THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:

Rob Gailey is Professor of Business and Director of the Center for International Development at Point Loma Nazarene University, as well as the co-author of Development in Mission: A Guide for Transforming Global Poverty and Ourselves.
Rob Gailey was a missionary kid. He shares the story of encountering deep poverty, which led him to care about poverty alleviation today.
When back in the United States with his family, Rob Gailey was considered impoverished in comparison to other Americans, but when he and his family went back to Swaziland he was considered incredibly wealthy. That dichotomy has never left him.
Over the past thirty years, poverty is actually going down globally.
Rob Gailey explains what he means by transformational development, which is a holistic approach to poverty alleviation.
It is incredibly important to listen to those whom we are trying to serve when it comes to poverty alleviation.
Rob Gailey tells the funny and tragic story of the “gringo wall” at a mission location in Mexico—a project given to mission teams who come to serve, but aren’t willing to listen.
Rob talks about how frequently mission teams only do busy work when they go on mission trips.
The move of the poor from rural areas to urban areas is having a profound impact on global poverty.
The way we vote in our own country can make an impact on global poverty.
Rob Gailey discusses the importance of reciprocity and mutuality in the work of poverty alleviation.
Markus Watson reflects on the importance of listening and mutuality in our local contexts, as well.
Holistic transformation is impossible without the church.
The church’s work of poverty alleviation needs to come from a place of deep spiritual formation so that those we serve will be drawn to Jesus Christ.

RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:

Rob Gailey:
- Point Loma Nazarene University Faculty page
- LinkedIn
Books mentioned:
- Development in Mission: A Guide for Transforming Global Poverty and Ourselves, by Rob Gailey, Monty Lynn, and Derran Reese
- When Helping Hurts, by Steve Corbett and Brian Fikkert
- Walking with the Poor, by Bryant Myers
Related episodes:
- Ep 34: A Small Church Making a Big Difference, with Cari Augusta
- Ep 51: Healing Homelessness, with Michelle LeBeau, San Diego Rescue Mission

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114. Meaningful Work, with Michaela O'Donnell, author of Make Work Matter Oct 26, 2021

Show notes

Michaela O’Donnell is the Executive Director of the Depree Center for Leadership at Fuller Theological Seminary and the author of Make Work Matter: Your Guide to Meaningful Work in a Changing World.
The world of work has changed. Rarely do people stay at the same company for decades (which used to be the norm). No people move from job to job every few years. The gig economy has change the world of work. And if you haven't noticed, the coronavirus pandemic has exacerbated all these changes.
In this episode, Michaela O'Donnell helps us understand the changing nature of work, not only for people in the marketplace, but also in the church.
THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:

Michaela O’Donnell is the Executive Director of the Depree Center for Leadership at Fuller Theological Seminary and the author of Make Work Matter: Your Guide to Meaningful Work in a Changing World.
The most formative book Michaela O’Donnell has read is Strengthening the Soul of Your Leadership by Ruth Haley Barton.
Michaela shares what led her to write Make Work Matter.
It’s important to have a good understanding of work because it is such a big part of our lives and is part of God’s creation intention for human beings.
Michaela O’Donnell discusses how the world of work has changed in recent years and decades.
In dealing with the changing nature of work, we need to recognize we are not alone and make space for our feelings.
The changing nature of work invites us to engage in grief work.
Michaela O’Donnell describes how resilience can help us navigate the changing world of work.
The “entrepreneurial way,” as Michaela O’Donnell explains it, includes resilience, creativity, deepening in relationship, and the skill of empathy.
The story of the Good Samaritan is a helpful way of thinking about the connection between empathy and entrepreneurship.
Michaela O’Donnell reminds us that we can experience “small r resurrections” in the midst of the challenges of work.

RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:

Michaela O'Donnell:
- Depree Center for Leadership
- Pre-order Make Work Matter
Books mentioned:
- Make Work Matter: Your Guide to Meaningful Work in a Changing World, by Michaela O’Donnell
- Strengthening the Soul of Your Leadership, by Ruth Haley Barton
- Tempered Resilience, by Tod Bolsinger
Church Leadership Institute
Related Episodes:

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113. Flourishing Leadership, with Andy Crouch, author of Strong and Weak Oct 12, 2021

Show notes

Andy Crouch is Partner for Theology and Culture at Praxis and the author of Strong and Weak. In this episode, Andy Crouch discusses the roles of both strength and weakness--authority and vulnerability--in our leadership.
So often, we assume the greatest leaders are the ones who exhibit great authority. Or maybe we believe the greatest leaders let go of all their authority and lead only from a place of vulnerability.

But that’s a false dichotomy. Leaders that bring true flourishing lead with both authority and vulnerability.
THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:

Andy Crouch is Partner for Theology and Culture at Praxis and the author of numerous books, including Strong and Weak.
The most formative books Andy Crouch has read are A Long Obedience in the Same Directionby Eugene Peterson and Technology and the Character of Contemporary Life by Albert Borgman.
After writing Playing God: Redeeming the Gift of Power, Andy Crouch placed the themes of that book on a 2x2 matrix, which unlocked all kinds of new insight, which led him to write Strong and Weak.
Andy Crouch explains what a 2x2 matrix is. In the case of Strong and Weak, the 2x2 matrix consists of authority and vulnerability.
- See graphic below
When humans experience both authority and vulnerability, this is flourishing.
When there is no authority and no vulnerability, this can be called safety or withdrawal.
Vulnerability without authority is suffering.
Authority without vulnerability is control or exploiting.
Andy Crouch explains the need for both authority and vulnerability by exploring Genesis 1 and 2.
There is something that is unlocked in the world when a person with authority willingly empties themselves of authority and enters into suffering. It has a capacity to repair and restore the world.
Finding the right meaningful risk will unlock flourishing for you and the people you’re entrusted with.
In order to move toward vulnerability, letting go of authority, we need friends who are outside our own system.
The prayer of a healthy leader: God, show me my meaningful action today and show me my meaningful risk.
To find out more about Andy Crouch and his work, visit www.praxislabs.org.

RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:

Books mentioned:
- Strong and Weak, by Andy Crouch
- A Long Obedience in the Same Direction, by Eugene Peterson
- Technology and the Character of Contemporary Life, by Albert Borgman
- Playing God: The Gift of Redeeming Power, by Andy Crouch
Praxis Website:
- Praxislabs.org
Related episodes:
- Rhythms of Leadership, Ep 4: Embrace Authority and Vulnerability, with Andy Crouch
- Rhythms of Leadership, Ep 12: Manipulative Leaders, with Andy Crouch

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112. The Beatitudes and Spiritual Leadership, with Mark Scandrette, author of The Ninefold Path of Jesus Sep 28, 2021

Show notes

Mark Scandrette is the author of The Ninefold Path Jesus: Hidden Wisdom of the Beatitudes. In this episode, Mark does a fantastic job, not only unpacking what the Beatitudes are all about, but also showing us how living into the reality of the Beatitudes can help us be healthier and more lifegiving leaders.
THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:

Mark Scandrette is the executive director of ReImagine: A Center for Integral Christian Practice and the author of The Ninefold Path of Jesus: Hidden Wisdom of the Beatitudes.
The Beatitudes suggest that the blessed life can come to the most unlikely people.
The Beatitudes are not a new set of rules given to us by Jesus.
In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus tries to get us to rethink our assumptions about life.
Mark Scandrette suggests the Beatitudes name some of our first instincts that take us away from God’s reality and presence and then invite us to reengage those realities on a deeper level.
When we experience poverty, our first instinct is to grasp. But the Beatitudes invite us to move from closed-handedness to open-handedness.
In The Ninefold Path of Jesus, Mark Scandrette offers physical postures for us to take in order to better experience the reality of the Beatitudes with our bodies.
Mark Scandrette thinks of the Beatitudes as the psychology of the Kingdom of God.
Because of a tendency toward competition and comparison, leaders often have a hard time with the Beatitude that says, “Blessed are the meek.”
Mark Scandrette describes the “Ninefold Path Leader Labs” that he leads and how they have helped leaders experience the reality of the Beatitudes.
In the “Ninefold Path Leader Labs,” participants are asked, “Who do you tend to label, stereotype, or judge?”
Participants are invited to pray for strangers with this prayer: “Child of God, may you be well.”
Mark Scandrette shares an incredible story of how the Beatitudes helped him defuse a situation in which a man brandished a gun at a convenience store.

RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:

Books mentioned:
- The Ninefold Path of Jesus, by Mark Scandrette
- The Divine Conspiracy, by Dallas Willard
Websites:

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111. A Gospel for the Sinned-Against, with Phuc Luu, author of Jesus of the East Sep 14, 2021

Show notes

Phuc Luu is the author of Jesus of the East: Reclaiming the Gospel for the Wounded. This book is based on the questions, “Why is there a theology for the sinner, but not for the victim, for the sinned against?”
That same question is also at the root of this conversation. In other words, do we need to pursue a Gospel that focuses less on punishment avoidance and more on the restoration of a broken world?
THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:

Phuc Luu is a theologian-philosopher and the author of Jesus of the East: Reclaiming the Gospel for the Wounded.
The Crucified God, by Jürgen Moltmann, and The Cross and the Lynching Tree, by James Cone, are the most formative books Phuc Luu has read.
Phuc Luu came to the U.S. as a refugee with his family at the age of 4.
The Eastern Church Fathers tended to see sin as akin to sickness and salvation was likened to healing.
Minjung theology came out of Korea in response to the suffering and woundedness experienced, and focuses on salvation as healing, much like the Eastern Church Fathers.
With Constantine’s conversion, Christianity went from being a religion for the victims to a religion for the victimizers.
We have a Christianity for the sinner, but not a Christianity for the sinned against.
Phuc Luu explains the racialization of justice in the United States.
What is the good news for us today? How would Jesus bring healing to those who are wounded?
Phuc Luu answers the question, why did Jesus die on the cross?
Phuc Luu asks the question, does God have to do bad things in order to make good things happen?
God stands in solidarity with all those who are crucified.
The gospel for sinners is the opportunity to repent and have the mind of Christ.
Jesus created a kinship that mended the wounds of those around them. Jesus wants us to be reconciled to one another.
The church is called to allow its brokenness to intersect with the brokenness of the world, and thereby bring healing.

RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:

Phuc Luu
- Website: www.phucluu.com
Books mentions:
- Jesus of the East, by Phuc Luu
- The Crucfied God, by Jürgen Moltmann
- The Cross and the Lynching Tree, by James Cone
- Reading the Bible with the Damned, by Bob Ekblad

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110. Identity, Belonging, Purpose, with Kara Powell, author of 3 Big Questions That Change Every Teenager Aug 27, 2021

Show notes

Kara Powell is the Executive Director of the Fuller Youth Institute at Fuller Seminary, as well as the Chief of Leadership Formation, also at Fuller Seminary. Kara is also the co-author (together with Brad Griffin) of 3 Big Questions That Change Every Teenager.

While Kara Powell’s book addresses the foundational questions that adolescents wrestle with, it turns out these questions linger throughout our lives.

The three big questions focus on identity, belonging, and purpose, and an understanding of these questions can give us insight both into our own anxieties, hopes, and motivations, as well as the anxieties, hopes, and motivations of those we work with and lead.
THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:

One of the reasons Kara Powell wrote this book is because a teen said, “I wish the church would stop giving me answers to questions I’m not asking.”
This book is an attempt, through research, to understand, what are the questions that young people are asking and how do we help them experience Jesus’ best answers for those questions?
In speaking with teenagers, the three big questions had to do with Identity, Belonging, and Purpose:
- Who am I?
- Where do I fit?
- What difference can I make?
The process of discipleship is the process of discovering Christ-centered answers to these questions.
Kara Powell shares that almost every teenager feels like they are not enough. Jesus, however, says to teenagers, “You are enough.”
The teens with whom Kara Powell spoke in her research said they feel like they belong when they feel safe and when they share experiences with others.
Teens feel that they can make a difference when they are helping people. But they need to learn that they don’t need to earn God’s approval.
According to Kara Powell, these three questions can be really helpful in working with people in our ministries and organizations. When we look a difficult issue as being a matter of identity, belonging, or purpose for someone, that issue can suddenly make sense.
Kara Powell shares how understanding these questions have helped her even as a mom.
To find out more about Kara Powell and 3 Big Questions that Change Every Teenager, visit www.3bigquestionsbook.com.

RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:

Books mentioned:
- 3 Big Questions That Change Every Teenager by Kara Powell and Brad Griffin
Website: www.3bigquestionsbook.com

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