Spiritual Life and Leadership

Latest Episodes:

129. Recalibrating the Church Around Jesus, with Michael Frost and Alan Hirsch, authors of ReJesus May 24, 2022

Show notes

Michael Frost and Alan Hirsch are the authors of ReJesus: Remaking the Church in our Founder’s Image.
In a world in which the church has in many ways lost, not only the image of Jesus, but also the centrality of Jesus, how do we once again become the church we were meant to be? The church that the world needs us to be?
In this episode, Michael Frost and Alan Hirsch discuss how we can recalibrate the church with Jesus at the center.
THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:

Michael Frost and Alan Hirsch are the authors of ReJesus: Remaking the Church in our Founder’s Image.
Michael Frost is the Director of the Tinsley Institute at Morling College and Alan Hirsch leads the Movement Leaders Collective.
The last five years have shown that the church needs a recalibration around the person of Jesus.
In some places the word “evangelical” has become a bad word.
Alan Hirsch is surprised and disappointed at the direction the evangelical church has taken over the last 5-10 years.
Michael Frost says the word “gospel” has been reduced to a particular atonement theory. But when Jesus used the word, he was talking about the Kingdom of God.
Much of the church’s unhealth has been unveiled in recent years.
Alan Hirsch suggests that the gospel has been depersonalized into a doctrine. We need to see the face of Jesus once again in the gospel.
The church has recalibrated itself numerous times throughout history.
Discipleship is crucial to being the church we’re called to be.
Michael Frost and Alan Hirsch both answer the question: What is the church’s mission?
Many in our churches seem unable to recognize the voice of Jesus—even when read from the scriptures.
Being the church we are called to be requires three things:
- Orthodoxy – not just right beliefs, but truly taking the scriptures into our hearts and souls
- Orthopathy – a right heart, right feelings, love and allegiance toward Jesus
- Orthopraxy – right action
Alan Hirsch says we can’t go wrong if we become more like Jesus.

RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:

Alan Hirsch and Michael Frost:
Books mentioned:
- ReJesus, by Michael Frost and Alan Hirsch
Related episodes:
- Episode 12: God is a Woman in Labor, with Christiana Rice, author of To Alter Your World
Church Leadership Institute

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128. Letting Go of the Solo-Heroic Leader in You, with Bryan Sims, author of Leading Together May 10, 2022

Show notes

Bryan Sims is the author of Leading Together: The Holy Possibility of Harmony and Synergy in the Face of Change. He is also a coach with Spiritual Leadership Inc. and a professor at Asbury Theological Serminary.
In this episode, Bryan Sims discusses the importance of shared leadership. As we lead through these challenging times, leaders need to be able to bring people together—to draw on all our gifts and talents and knowledge. We are called to lead healthy teams of people in order to fully participate in God’s mission in the world. We cannot do it alone.
THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:

Bryan Sims is the author of Leading Together: The Holy Possibility of Harmony and Synergy in the Face of Change and is a coach with Spiritual Leadership Inc. and a professor at Asbury Theological Seminary.
Bryan Sims explains that healthy leadership requires working together and harmony among those that are working together, especially as we are living in times of disequilibrium.
Disequilibrium creates a space of high possibility.
Bryan Sims explains what he means by “technical challenges” and “adaptive challenges.”
Covid has been a time of intense adaptive challenge.
Overcoming adaptive challenges requires shared leadership.
Shared leadership can involve staff, church members, and even people outside the church or organization.
Kenosis is the Greek word that captures the self-emptying nature of Jesus. Healthy church leadership, according to Bryan Sims, also kenotic in nature. Controlling and manipulating is the opposite of kenosis.
Bryan Sims demonstrates the early church exhibited kenotic shared leadership because they learned that kind of leadership from Jesus.
Adaptive shared leadership is actually quite pastoral.
Bryan Sims, in his work, asks a really important question: How do we discern what God is doing and how do we join God in that?
Bryan Sims suggests that every leader needs a coach, a spiritual director, and a counselor.
For leaders wanting to engage in shared leadership, Bryan Sims suggests finding a person with whom they can process their leadership challenges.

RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:

Bryan Sims:
- Website – www.bryandsims.com
Church Leadership Inc.:
- Website - www.spiritual-leadership.org
Books mentioned:
- Leading Together, by Bryan Sims
- Surfing the Edge of Chaos, by Richard Pascale, Mark Milleman, and Linda Gioja
- Canoeing the Mountains, by Tod Bolsinger

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127. From Sunday-centric to Mission-centric, with Jon Ritner, author of Positively Irritating Apr 26, 2022

Show notes

Jon Ritner is the author of Positively Irritating: Embracing a Post-Christian World to Form a More Faithful and Innovative Church. In this episode, we discuss what it means to be the church in a post-Christendom world. How can the church be the kind of church that a Post-Christendom world actually needs—and the kind of church that God is calling the church to be?
THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:

Jon Ritner is the author of Positively Irritating: Embracing a Post-Christian World to Form a More Faithful and Innovative Church and has served as lead at Ecclesia Hollywood for the last seven.
After serving as an executive pastor of a megachurch, Jon Ritner eventually made his way to a microchurch network in Brussels, Belgium.
Later, Jon Ritner and his wife moved to Hollywood to help churches adapt and innovate in an increasingly post-Christendom world.
The early church existed in a pluralistic pre-Christian culture.
Jon Ritner uses the metaphor of an oyster to help us understand that challenges, when approached with a posture of learning and embrace, can lead to beauty.
Thanks to Covid, we have just spent the last two years in a liminal space.
The mission of God is not just the conversion of every individual soul. It’s the redemption and restoration of all of creation.
Jon Ritner argues that ministry should happen throughout the week in all the places where God’s people are. Then they can come together to celebrate on Sundays.
For many people today, going to church is almost a cross-cultural experience.
Jon Ritner explains that many churches unconsciously create an insider-outsider divide when they announce that if someone wants to find belonging they have to come to the church.

RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:

Jon Ritner:
- E-mail: jonritner@gmail.com
- Website: www.jonritner.com
Books mentioned:
- Missional Church, edited by Darrell Guder
- Positively Irritating, by Jon Ritner
- The Master Plan of Evangelism, by Robert E. Coleman
Church Leadership Institute
Related Episodes:

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126. A Crisis of Adult Discipleship, with Brian Wallace, Executive Director of the Center for Spiritual Formation Apr 12, 2022

Show notes

The church is experiencing what Brian Wallace calls a crisis of adult discipleship. We have plenty of people going to church. But that doesn’t necessarily translate into faithful, deep discipleship.
In this episode Brian Wallace discusses how to address that challenge. Brian is the Executive Director of Fuller Seminary’s Center for Spiritual Formation, and he helps us understand the critical components necessary for deep spiritual formation.
THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:

Brian Wallace is the Executive Director of the Fuller Center for Spiritual Formation.
As a pastor in a megachurch, Brian Wallace knew there was a crisis of adult discipleship.
The vision of the Center for Spiritual Formation is to empower leaders everywhere to grow and send everyone.
In Renovation of the Heart, Dallas Willard says we are always being formed.
Spiritual formation is the determination to let Jesus be in charge of who we become.
Brian Wallace says we are the representation of God’s goodness in the world.
The reason we have a crisis of formation is because, according to Brian Wallace, we have placed information at the center of the formative process.
No one has ever been invited to follow Jesus by themselves.
We are formed spiritually when we are in a safe place—not safe from challenge and conviction, but safe from shame and guilt.
According to Brian Wallace, relationships are critically important in our journey to becoming more like Jesus.
How do we help our congregations be engage in deep spiritual formation when most of our church members only attend church once or twice a month?
Fuller Formation Groups (part of the Center for Spiritual Formation) are designed to help churches lead their congregations into deep spiritual formation.
The calculus of transformation is an informed practice in a reflective community over time.
Brian Wallace says spiritual formation requires time. Not many hours in a week, but many weeks over time.

RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:

Books mentioned:
- In the Name of Jesus, by Henri Nouwen
- The Message of the Sermon on the Mount, by John Stott
- The Collective Works of C.S. Lewis
- Renovation of the Heart, by Dallas Willard
Brian Wallace:
- E-mail: spiritualformation@fuller.edu
Related episodes:

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125. Fruitful Leadership, with Tom Nelson, author of The Flourishing Pastor Mar 29, 2022

Show notes

Tom Nelson is author of The Flourishing Pastor, as well as the senior pastor of Christ Community Church in Kansas City and the president of Made to Flourish.
In this episode, Tom Nelson unpacks what it means to be a flourishing pastor--a pastor who lives and leads from a deep well of inner health and wholeness.
THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:

Tom Nelson is author of The Flourishing Pastor. He is also the senior pastor of Christ Community Church in Kansas City and the president of Made to Flourish.
The Flourishing Pastor is based on Psalm 78:72: “So David shepherded them according to the integrity of his heart and guided them with his skillful hands.”
“A flourishing pastor is increasingly like Jesus as he or she is yoked in apprenticeship with him over a long time.”
When we prioritize greater intimacy with God, our leadership will grow in fruitfulness.
What we are doing and what we are accomplishing matters, but for a flourishing pastor it’s secondary.
“To lead well we must be led well.”
Leadership and followership go hand in hand.
Failure often is our greatest teacher.
Tom Nelson explains what he means by “an integral life,” which refers to a kind of seamlessness in life. When we are in Christ, we experience life as fully unified and integral. That’s what it means to be a flourishing pastor.
We are moving toward a greater wholeness.
A “black swan” experience, as Tom Nelson describes, is a completely unexpected experience. It’s something you’ve never seen before (something like a global pandemic).
There are four things a flourishing pastor can do when confronted with a “black swan” experience:
- Lean into wisdom
- Remain relational
- Build endurance
- Stay in mission

RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:

Books mentioned:
- The Flourishing Pastor, by Tom Nelson
Made to Flourish:
- www.madetoflourish.org
Church Leadership Institute:
- Website – www.depree.org/church
- Anvil Leadership Support Network
Related episodes:

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124. Racial Justice, Sexual Wholeness, and the Way of Jesus, with Rich Villodas, author of The Deeply Formed Life Mar 15, 2022

Show notes

Rich Villodas is the lead pastor at New Life Fellowship and the author of The Deeply Formed Life, in which he explores five values that help us live in union with Jesus.
In this interview, Rich and I focus on two of those five values: racial justice and reconciliation and sexual wholeness. These are not values typically associated with spiritual formation, but they are incredibly important nonetheless to being formed in the way of Jesus.
THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:

Rich Villodas is the lead pastor at New Life Fellowship in Queens, NY, and the author of The Deeply formed Life: Five Transformative Values that Root us in the Way of Jesus.
Rich shares the story of how he came to faith in Jesus and was called to be a pastor.
The five values discussed in The Deeply Formed Life flow from the values of the church Rich Villodas pastors.
These five values are:
- Contemplative rhythms
- Racial justice and reconciliation
- Interior examination
- Sexual wholeness
- Missional presence
Spiritual formation is the process of being conformed to the image of Jesus for the sake of others.
Rich Villodas explains why we need to think about racial justice formationally.
Despite our many ethnicities, races, socio-economic backgrounds, and so forth, what unites all of us is that we have all been socialized in a racialized society.
Rich Villodas unpacks what it means to be formed into sexual wholeness.
Contemplative rhythms is about ordering our lives with God in such a way that we are living from a place of Communion, prayer, reflection.
Rich Villodas explains why contemplative rhythms are so important for healthy spiritual leadership.

RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:

Rich Villodas
- www.richvillodas.com
- Instagram - @richvillodas
- Twitter - @richvillodas
Books mentioned:
- The Deeply Formed Life, by Rich Villodas
- Good and Beautiful and Kind, by Rich Villodas
Related episodes:

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123. Gentrification and Spiritual Leadership, with Mark Strong, author of Who Moved My Neighborhood Mar 01, 2022

Show notes

Gentrification is a process by which a local group of residents are slowly pushed out by economic forces, making room for a new group of residents. In his book, Who Moved My Neighborhood: Leading Congregations through Gentrification and Economic Change, Mark Strong helps local churches navigate that challenge of gentrification. And in this episode, Mark unpacks, not only the effects of gentrification on local residents and churches, but also how to respond with resilience and grace in the face of such great change.
THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:

Mark Strong is the senior pastor of Life Change Church in Portland, Oregon, and the author of Who Moved My Neighborhood: Leading Congregations through Gentrification and Economic Change.
Mark Strong shares the story of how he came to faith in the church of which he is now the pastor.
The change of Mark’s neighborhood started very subtly. They didn’t even notice it was happening at first.
Gentrification is a process in which one homogeneous group of people who live in a particular area are slowly pushed out of their community by economic forces to make room for new groups of people.
The process of gentrification stirs up feelings of powerlessness, anger, and disorientation among local residents.
Mark Strong outlines a process that can help pastors and churches navigate the challenges of gentrification.
For local residents, gentrification can feel like an experience of exile.
It is important for the local church to learn to love their new neighbors.
Mark Strong emphasizes the importance of developing a new vision for churches in gentrified communities.
Mark shares some of the ways he and his congregation have adapted to their community’s gentrification.
Mark discusses some of the ways race played into the experience of gentrification and the challenges they faced because of race and racism.

RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:

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122. Burned Out and Broken, with Michael MacKenzie, author of Don't Blow Up Your Ministry Feb 15, 2022

Show notes

Michael MacKenzie, the Executive Director of Marble Retreat and the author of Don’t Blow Up Your Ministry, has been working with pastors in crisis for a long time. In this episode, Michael will help us understand not only the danger signs of an impending ministry blow-up, but also how to heal after we’ve blown up our ministry.
THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:

Michael MacKenzie is Executive Director of Marble Retreat and the author of Don’t Blow Up Your Ministry.
Michael shares what led him to his ministry with Marble Retreat.
Michael MacKenzie describes what he means by a “blown up ministry.”
Burnout results when the stresses of ministry combine with the pastor’s own brokenness.
Potential stressors include: people-pleasing, avoidance of conflict, and so forth.
To avoid these pitfalls, pastors should be on the lookout for: resentment, exhaustion, lack of joy, lack of peace, lack of passion.
Pride and success can also lead to a blown-up ministry when pastors cross certain unhealthy and inappropriate boundaries.
Michael MacKenzie shares why failure can be better for the soul than success.
Michael explains the differences between large churches and small churches and how that affects a pastors well-being.
Healthy relationships are critical for healthy ministry leadership.
One way to build relationships is to pick up a hobby that other people do.
Michael MacKenzie reflects on the connection between confession and healing.

RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:

Marble Retreat website
Books mentioned:
- Don’t Blow Up Your Ministry, by Michael MacKenzie
- Renovation of the Heart, by Dallas Willard
- Works of Love, by Soren Kierkegaard
Related episodes:

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121. Rewrite Your Story, with Ian Morgan Cron, author of The Story of You Feb 01, 2022

Show notes

Ian Morgan Cron is an Enneagram teacher, host of the Typology podcast, and author of the new book, The Story of You: An Enneagram Journey to Becoming Your True Self.
Every person has a story. You’ve got a story. I’ve got a story. And not just a story of what actually happened, but a story we tell ourselves to help make sense of our lives.
In this episode, Ian Morgan Cron helps us understand that the stories we bring into adulthood often aren't helpful. As leaders, we need to write a new, healthy story.
THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:

Ian Morgan Cron is an Enneagram teacher, host of the Typology podcast, and author of the new book, The Story of You: An Enneagram Journey to Becoming Your True Self.
Ian describes what the Enneagram is.
As children, we develop stories about ourselves that help us cope with the pain and difficulty of life. As adults, we bring these stories with us, even though they are quite limiting and self-defeating.
These stories tend to be in direct opposition to the Gospel.
Ian Morgan Cron offers some examples of the kinds of stories we believe about ourselves.
If we don’t leave these stories behind, we end up living lives that are too small.
According to Ian Morgan Cron, we need to explore both the shadow side and the strength of our story.
Ian Morgan Cron explains the “SOAR” method for rewriting our stories: See, Own, Awaken, Rewrite.
Ian describes the correlation between rewriting one’s story and the themes of Richard Rohr’s Falling Upward.
Ian Morgan Cron describes the work of Dan McAdams who developed narrative therapy. He says, “All transformation is story transformation.”
Robert Jensen’s essay, How the World Lost Its Story, helps us better understand the story pastors and ministry leaders need in order to lead well in a disruptive world.
Pastors need to recapture a story that explains the way the world is and present it narratively.

RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:

Ian Morgan Cron:
- www.ianmorgancron.com
- @ianmorgancron
  - Twitter
  - Instagram
Books mentioned:
- The Story of You, by Ian Morgan Cron
- The Road Back to You, by Ian Morgan Cron and Suzanne Stabile
- Falling Upward, by Richard Rohr
Other Resources:
- How the World Lost Its Story, by Robert Jensen
Related episodes:

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120. Forming Leadership Resilience, with Tod Bolsinger, Executive Director of the Church Leadership Institute Jan 18, 2022

Show notes

Leadership resilience is about maintaining one's core purpose and identity while the world changes around us. It is especially important for those of us in ministry leadership as we navigate this rapidly changing and disruptive world in which we live.
In this episode, Tod Bolsinger discusses three things we can do to grow our leadership resilience.
THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:

Tod Bolsinger is the Executive Director of the Church Leadership Institute and author of Tempered Resilience.
According to David Whyte, “The antidote to exhaustion is wholeheartedness.” (Crossing the Unknown Sea)
We are facing four crises at once: a health crisis, an economic crisis, a crisis of social injustice, and a political crisis.
We are also facing a pastoral crisis. Many pastors are considering leaving the ministry.
According to Andrew Zolli, resilience is the capacity to “maintain core purpose and integrity in the face of dramatically changed circumstances.” (Resilience: Why Things Bounce Back)
Strengthen your pastoral and leadership resilience by doing three things:
- Clarify your “core purpose.”
- Commit to a safe place for vulnerable self-reflection.
- Create a playful experiment for even more learning.
Purpose brings leadership resilience.
Learning brings leadership resilience.
Adaptability brings leadership resilience.

RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:

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