Spiritual Life and Leadership

Latest Episodes:

109. Leadership as Learning, Part 2: Coaches and Cohorts, with Tod Bolsinger Aug 17, 2021

Show notes

Leadership, at its core, always has to do with navigating change. In a world like ours, change leadership is more critical than ever. But change leadership, or adaptive leadership, is impossible if the leader isn’t willing or able to take a learning posture.
In this episode, Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson talk about how best to learn for the sake of leadership. Learning is always more effective in community. Learning happens best, in other words, with the support of a cohort of others who are on the same leadership journey, and the guidance of a coach who can challenge our assumptions and ask provocative questions.
THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:

Tod Bolsinger is the Executive Director of Fuller Theological Seminary’s Church Leadership Institute.
Markus Watson and Tod Bolsinger give a brief synopsis of Episode 108, “Context and Creativity.”
Many leaders are discovering that they need help. They are realizing that they don’t have all the answers.
Tod Bolsinger explains why a cohort is so important for learning as a leader. The leader’s job in a cohort is really just to convene a group of learners.
Lewis and Clark and their team were a learning cohort.
Tod shares the story of a megachurch pastor who admitted he needed coaching.
A coach’s job is to care about you for the sake of the mission.
A dysfunctional leader is more interested in control than in learning.
Markus Watson and Tod Bolsinger discuss the role of spiritual formation in healthy leadership.
Leaders need a cohort for support and a coach for challenge.
Leaders need to ask for help. Asking for help is an act of leadership.
The Lilly Endowment has made it possible for the Fuller Seminary’s Church Leadership Institute to provide learning cohorts and coaching at an affordable price through the Online Adaptive Capacity Cohort.
- The cost is $3500 for an 18-month cohort and coaching process.
- Mention Spiritual Life and Leadership when you apply to get a $500 scholarship.
- More scholarship money is available depending on need.
At the end of the Online Adaptive Capacity Cohort, you will have a team of people who are ready to take on the challenge of a changing world. Your team will be change leadership experts.

RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:

Online Adaptive Capacity Cohort:
- For more information, click HERE
- To register, click HERE
- Mention Spiritual Life and Leadership to get a $500 scholarship
Books mentioned:
- Canoeing the Mountains, by Tod Bolsinger

Send me a text! I’d love to know what you're thinking!

Click HERE to get my FREE online course, BECOMING LEADERS OF SHALOM.

108. Leadership as Learning, Part 1: Context and Creativity, with Tod Bolsinger Aug 03, 2021

Show notes

Each church, each ministry organization, is situated in a unique context—a particular place and time and culture. And that context, if we’re paying attention and engaging with a posture of learning, will call forth creative new ways of serving and loving and blessing our neighbors.
In this conversation, Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson discuss both the importance of knowing one's context and responding with creativity when discerning a church's ministry calling.
THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:

Tod Bolsinger is the Executive Director of Fuller Seminary’s Church Leadership Institute, as well as the author of Canoeing the Mountains and Tempered Resilience.
Now that we’re coming out of the pandemic, many of us think about going “back.” But what would we be going back to?
Ronald Heifetz says that a crisis can give us the will to address issues we didn’t want to address before.
A crisis has an acute phase and an adaptive phase.
The future of one’s church will be built on the healthiest version of its “charism,” it’s gift.
Each church has been uniquely gifted for its particular context.
Leaders are shaped more by their context than by the reading they do or the education they receive.
Leaders and pastors need to pay attention to the pain points of their communities and reflect on how their church’s charism can address those pain points. And how will that require us to change?
Tod Bolsinger shares an amazing story of a church in Austin, TX, that took on the challenge of economic inequality in their community by buying medical debt.
- This sparked all kinds of ministry creativity in that church.
Markus Watson shares the story of Westmorland Community Presbyterian Church and the Food Pantry they started in their small, rural town.
The Church Leadership Institute is offering the Online Adaptive Capacity Cohort to help churches and pastors discover their charism and how to serve creatively in their contexts.

RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:

Online Adaptive Capacity Cohort
- Click HERE for more info
- Click HERE to apply (mention Spiritual Life and Leadership for a $500 scholarship)
Books mentioned:
- Canoeing the Mountains by Tod Bolsinger
- Tempered Resilienceby Tod Bolsinger
- Beyond Thingification by Markus Watson

Reviews help listeners find this podcast. To leave a review of Spiritual Life and Leadership:

Click HERE.
Click on the link that says, "Listen on Apple Podcasts."
In the window that opens, click the button that says, "Open Link." This will open iTunes.
To the right of the Spiritual Life and Leadership logo, click "Ratings and Reviews."
Under the heading, "Customer Reviews," click on the button that says, "Write a Review."
Select the number of stars and write your review.
Click submit.

Thank you!
—
Links to Amazon are affiliate links.

Send me a text! I’d love to know what you're thinking!

Click HERE to get my FREE online course, BECOMING LEADERS OF SHALOM.

107. Childlike Faith, Adultlike Leadership, with Mandy Smith, author of Unfettered Jul 20, 2021

Show notes

Mandy Smith is a pastor and the author of Unfettered: Imagining a Childlike Faith Beyond the Baggage of Western Culture. In this episode, Mandy discusses the ways we are called to embrace childlikeness, while resisting childishness. And, at the same time, we are called to embrace mature adultlikeness, while resisting insecure adultishness.
THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDES:

Mandy Smith is a pastor and the author of Unfettered: Imagining a Childlike Faith Beyond the Baggage of Western Culture.
Mandy wrote Unfettered over the course of five years and four re-writes, having initially written a very “adult-like” exposition of childlike faith.
Mandy Smith explains the difference between “adultish” and “adult-like.”
Mandy shares how she began to explore what it means to have a childlike faith.
God is the initiator of mission in the world. We are called to rest, receive, and respond.
- Rest from the assumption that it’s all up to me.
- From that rest, we always receive from the Source of all things.
- Our response, then is to step into the adult-like agency of leadership.
Mandy Smith further unpacks the rest, receive, respond framework.
Western culture tends to reduce human beings down to what we think and what we do.
If we truly believe God is carrying our lives and the world, we can stop and rest sometimes.

RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:

Mandy Smith:
- Website: www.thewayistheway.org
Books mentioned:
- Unfettered: Imagining a Childlike Faith Beyond the Baggage of Western Culture, by Mandy Smith
- The Vulnerable Pastor, by Mandy Smith
- These books are available wherever you buys books, including https://www.heartsandmindsbooks.com/
Listen to Mandy Smith’s earlier episode:
- Episode 36: The Vulnerable Pastor, with Mandy Smith

Reviews help listeners find this podcast. To leave a review of Spiritual Life and Leadership:

Click HERE.
Click on the link that says, "Listen on Apple Podcasts."
In the window that opens, click the button that says, "Open Link." This will open iTunes.
To the right of the Spiritual Life and Leadership logo, click "Ratings and Reviews."
Under the heading, "Customer Reviews," click on the button that says, "Write a Review."
Select the number of stars and write your review.
Click submit.

Thank you!
—
Links to Amazon are affiliate links.

Send me a text! I’d love to know what you're thinking!

Click HERE to get my FREE online course, BECOMING LEADERS OF SHALOM.

106. Confronting Modernity's Wager, with Mark Lau Branson, co-author of Leadership, God's Agency, and Disruptions Jul 06, 2021

Show notes

Mark Lau Branson is the co-author of Leadership, God's Agency, and Disruptions. In this episode, Mark discusses the question raised by "Modernity's Wager." That question is, "Can life be lived well without God?" While most of us would say, "No," the sad truth is that we often live and lead as though God is neither active nor present.
THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:

Mark Lau Branson is the Homer L. Goddard Professor of the Ministry of the Laity at Fuller Theological Seminary, as well as the co-author (together with Alan Roxburgh) of Leadership, God’s Agency, and Disruptions.
Mark Lau Branson explains the meaning of “modernity’s wager,” which argues that life can be lived well without God.
Christian leaders operate within a framework that puts the onus of “success” on them. This leads to ways of leading rooted in power and control.
Strategic planning is totally dependent on humans being objects who can be manipulated toward ends. But ministry leaders do this unconsciously.
Churches look at their neighbors as objects who need something. And the church’s job is to deliver it.
Mark Lau Branson states that God is constantly disrupting throughout the Bible and walking with his people amid disruptions.
Markus Watson and Mark Lau Branson discuss the way the Gospel of Matthew presents learning communities as one of the key ways the church discovers its calling and purpose.
We can truly only learn through reflection in conversation.
Whenever Jesus had a meal with someone, he was always a guest. Mark Lau Branson says that the disciples learned from this that hospitality for the Gospel means you’re a guest. And then you listen because you’re a guest.
Mark Lau Branson and Markus Watson discuss the Four Spiritual Laws as a commodity designed to control a conversation and elicit a particular outcome.
Mark Lau Branson explains the social construction framework. Jesus, in the Sermon on the Mount, is challenging the social construction of both his time and our time.

RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:

Mark Lau Branson:
- Fuller website
Books mentioned:
- Leadership, God’s Agency, and Disruptions, by Mark Lau Branson and Alan Roxburgh
Related book:
- Beyond Thingification: Helping Your Church Engage in God's Mission, by Markus Watson
Church Leadership Institute
Free Online Course:
- Leading Your Church Through Change

Reviews help listeners find this podcast. To leave a review of Spiritual Life and Leadership:

Click HERE.
Click on the link that says, "Listen on Apple Podcasts."
In the window that opens, click the button that says, "Open Link." This will open iTunes.
To the right of the Spiritual Life and Leadership logo, click "Ratings and Reviews."
Under the heading, "Customer Reviews," click on the button that says, "Write a Review."
Select the number of stars and write your review.
Click submit.

Thank you!
—
Links to Amazon are affiliate links.

Send me a text! I’d love to know what you're thinking!

Click HERE to get my FREE online course, BECOMING LEADERS OF SHALOM.

105. Courageous Leadership, with Rich Stearns, author of Lead Like It Matters to God Jun 22, 2021

Show notes

Rich Stearns, author of Lead Like it Matters to God, served as the President of World Vision from the mid-1990’s until just a few years ago. In that time, World Vision took on the African AIDS pandemic—and through Rich’s leadership helped many of us get a better understanding of what was really happening in that crisis, and of the children whose lives were being shattered by that pandemic.
THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:

Rich Stearns is the President Emeritus of World Vision and the author of Lead Like it Matters to God.
Rich Stearns came to faith after reading Miracles, by C.S. Lewis, and through the influence of his wife (then fiancé).
Rich was CEO of Parker Brothers Games and Lenox China.
Rich was initially not interested in being the President of World Vision.
The call to serve World Vision was a lot like Jesus’ call to the “rich young ruler.”
Total surrender is essential for faithful leadership. Sometimes we surrender some parts of our lives, but not others.
In the 1990’s, Rich Stearns was called to deal with the AIDS pandemic in Africa. This was an incredibly difficult and adaptive leadership challenge.
Listening is critical for healthy and effective leadership.
The job description of every follower of Jesus is that we are Christ’s ambassadors in the world.
We must sacrifice our ambitions for Christ’s ambitions for us.
In addition to his book, Rich Stearns has a podcast titled Lead Like it Matters to God, where he interviews senior Christian leaders.

RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:

Books mentioned:
- Lead Like it Matters to God, by Rich Stearns
- Miracles, by C.S. Lewis
Rich Stearns
- Lead Like It Matters to God podcast
- World Vision

Reviews help listeners find this podcast. To leave a review of Spiritual Life and Leadership:

Click HERE.
Click on the link that says, "Listen on Apple Podcasts."
In the window that opens, click the button that says, "Open Link." This will open iTunes.
To the right of the Spiritual Life and Leadership logo, click "Ratings and Reviews."
Under the heading, "Customer Reviews," click on the button that says, "Write a Review."
Select the number of stars and write your review.
Click submit.

Thank you!
—
Links to Amazon are affiliate links.

Send me a text! I’d love to know what you're thinking!

Click HERE to get my FREE online course, BECOMING LEADERS OF SHALOM.

104. Idols of Comfort: The Church After Covid, with Pamela Ebstyne King and Dwight Radcliff Jun 08, 2021

Show notes

Pamela Ebstyne King and Dwight Radcliff, professors at Fuller Theological Seminary, discuss what it means to thrive as we move into a post-Covid world, acknowledging our idols of comfort, and what it means to move forward toward the healing and wholeness that God wants for the whole world.
THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:

Pamela Ebstyne King is the Peter L. Benson Professor of Applied Developmental Science at Fuller Theological Seminary and the Executive Director of the Thrive Center for Human Development.
Dwight Radcliff is Assistant Professor of Mission, Theology, and Culture at Fuller Theological Seminary, as well as the Academic Dean of the Pannell Center for Black Church Studies.
The form of church and worship perhaps doesn’t matter as much as the ends. We need new wineskins.
Words matter and the Gospel is bigger than we thought.
Dwight Radcliff is not convinced that much will change after Covid.
When ecclesiology becomes an end in itself, we miss what God’s call for the church is.
Pamela King suggests we think less about restoration and more about consummation.
Pamela King unpacks what she means by “consummation.”
When we don’t like where God is leading us we revert to our idols of comfort.
Dwight Radcliff shares what it was like for him as a pastor during this past year of Covid.
The experience of joy, according to Pamela King, and when we attune to those joy centers in our life, that is God speaking to us.
Dwight Radcliff has embraced the freedom to be flawed over this past year.
You can find out more about Dwight Radcliff on Twitter at @pastorrad and on Instagram at @pastorrad. You can also find out about Dwight’s work at the Pannell Center website.
You can find out more about Pamela King on Twitter at @drpamking and on Instagram at @drpamking, as well as at the Thrive Center website.

RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:

Books mentioned:
- Jesus and the Disinherited, by Howard Thurman
- Inner Voice of Love, by Henri Nouwen
Pamela King:
- Twitter: @drpamking
- Instagram: @drpamking
- Thrive Center: https://thethrivecenter.org/
Dwight Radcliff:
- Twitter: @pastorrad
- Instagram: @pastorrad
- Pannell Center: https://www.fuller.edu/pannell-center/

—
Links to Amazon are affiliate links.

Send me a text! I’d love to know what you're thinking!

Click HERE to get my FREE online course, BECOMING LEADERS OF SHALOM.

103. Willingness to Adapt: The Church After Covid, with Kurt Fredrickson and Cameron Lee May 25, 2021

Show notes

Kurt Fredrickson and Cameron Lee are on the faculty at Fuller Theological Seminary. In this episode, our conversation centers on the theme of resilience and the willingness to adapt. What does it mean to be resilient? And how do we become resilient leaders who are not only able but willing to adapt when called to do so?
THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:

Kurt Fredrickson leads the Doctor of Ministry and the Doctor of Global Leadership programs at Fuller Theological Seminary.
Cameron Lee is the Professor of Marriage and Family Studies at Fuller Theological Seminary.
For Cameron, it’s painful to see how the coronavirus has divided the church this past year.
Kurt Fredrickson noticed that when you have to adapt, you adapt. And the church adapted.
Visiting various online church services is not really church. The missing component is community.
Kurt Fredrickson's biggest fear is that we’re just going to go back to church as it used to be—over-programmed and under-discipled.
A crisis like this pandemic exposes the things that we tend to take for granted.
To lead after Covid, leaders need to cultivate resilience, gratitude, and the ability to hold things loosely.
Ministry leaders need to practice Sabbath. But it can be hard to practice Sabbath when one day bleeds into the next (as it seemed during the pandemic).
Kurt Fredrickson defines resilience in terms of its opposite—the inability to snap back or be flexible.
Cameron Lee connects resilience to the ability to manage stress.
Cameron Lee shares how Covid has personally affected him, including the loss of his mother.
To find out more about Kurt Fredrickson’s work, visit his Fuller Seminary profile page.
You can find out more about Cameron Lee’s work by visiting his Fuller Seminary profile page or his blog, Squinting Through Fog.

RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:

Books mentioned:
- Tempered Resilience, by Tod Bolsinger
- That Their Work Will Be a Joy, by Kurt Fredrickson and Cameron Lee
- Surfing the Edge of Chaos, by Richard Pascale, Mark Milleman, and Linda Gioja
Kurt Fredrickson:
- Fuller Seminary profile page
Cameron Lee:
- Fuller Seminary profile page
- Squinting Through Fog blog
Related episodes

—
Links to Amazon are affiliate links.

Send me a text! I’d love to know what you're thinking!

Click HERE to get my FREE online course, BECOMING LEADERS OF SHALOM.

102. Presence and Practices: The Church After Covid, with Ahmi Lee and David Taylor May 11, 2021

Show notes

This episode is the second part of a four-part series exploring the "Church After Covid." In this conversation, Fuller Seminary professors Ahmi Lee and David Taylor, focus on both the need for embodied presence in our lives and ministry as we return to life after Covid, and the importance of spiritual practices to help us stay grounded as we make that transition.
THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:

Dr. Ahmi Lee is Assistant Professor of Preaching at Fuller Theological Seminary.
Dr. David Taylor is Associate Professor of Theology and Culture at Fuller Theological Seminary.
David Taylor notes two things that he learned during the pandemic. First, our bodies matter; our embodied presence matters. Second, fractures in our culture don’t happen overnight.
Ahmi Lee discusses the fragility of life that became so clear during the pandemic. But recognizing our fragility has also taught us to be present with one another.
It’s important for us to not romanticize the past.
Ahmi Lee considers the way the act of preaching was affected by the pandemic.
David Taylor says churches should continue to think about how digital media can help fulfill the mission of the church. Because of digital media, many who couldn’t attend church were able to participate for the first time in a long time.
At the same time, the church should explore how to live more fully into embodied relationships.
Church leaders need to ask God to teach us how to do less so we can be truly present to each other.
We’re not creative or adaptive enough to face all the changes in a rapidly changing world. What we need more than ever is to be grounded.
Ahmi Lee has found strength in the old spiritual practices.
Surrender and trust are what Ahmi Lee has learned most during the pandemic.
David Taylor has discovered, during the pandemic, how addicted he is to productivity and achievement.

RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:

Ahmi Lee:
- Fuller Seminary Faculty Profile Page
David Taylor:
- https://www.wdavidotaylor.com/
Church Leadership Institute
- https://depree.org/church/
- Facebook page

Reviews help listeners find this podcast. To leave a review of Spiritual Life and Leadership:

Click HERE.
Click on the link that says, "Listen on Apple Podcasts."
In the window that opens, click the button that says, "Open Link." This will open iTunes.
To the right of the Spiritual Life and Leadership logo, click "Ratings and Reviews."
Under the heading, "Customer Reviews," click on the button that says, "Write a Review."
Select the number of stars and write your review.
Click submit.

Thank you!

Send me a text! I’d love to know what you're thinking!

Click HERE to get my FREE online course, BECOMING LEADERS OF SHALOM.

101. Gratitude, Grief, and Guilt: The Church After Covid, with Scott Cormode and Alexia Salvatierra Apr 27, 2021

Show notes

This episode is part one of a four-part series titled, "The Church After Covid. In this episode, we are speaking with Fuller Seminary professors Scott Cormode and Alexia Salvatierra. They will help us see the importance of expressing gratitude, moving through grief, and even acknowledging feelings of guilt, as we move into a post-pandemic world.
THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:

Scott Cormode is the Hugh De Pree Professor of Leadership Development at Fuller Theological Seminary and has recently written book titled The Innovative Church.
Alexia Salvatierra is the Assistant Professor of Integral Mission and Global Transformation at Fuller Seminary. Alexia also works with a network of immigrant and non-immigrant churches who advocate for immigrant families facing detention and deportation.
Alexia Salvatierra works primarily with Spanish-speaking churches and second generation multi-cultural churches.
Scott Cormode does a lot of work with the Fuller Youth Institute.
The biggest thing we’ve learned from this past year of Covid is that no one knows what is around the corner.
Preparation makes you agile.
In Spanish-speaking churches, the experience of Covid pushed them up against their lack of access to technology. But it also opened new opportunities for community and leadership.
In Spanish-speaking communities, Covid has been much more of a plague than in white communities.
As we move away from our Covid reality, we need to engage in both grief and gratitude.
Guilt is also an emotion that many will experience after the pandemic—survivor guilt.
Alexia shares how some documented families helped care for undocumented families.
Leadership begins with listening.
We need to listen with empathy because over this past year everyone has had their own experience.
The Gospel is God’s response to the human condition.
If you don’t listen, you can’t see what God is doing.
Alexia and Scott share how they have been formed spiritually through this year of pandemic.

RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:

Books mentioned:
- The Innovative Church, by Scott Cormode
- The Wounded Healer, by Henri Nouwen
Church Leadership Institute:
- www.depree.org/church
- Text CHANGE to 66866
CLI Course
- From Surviving to Thriving: Leading Your Church Into a Post Pandemic World

Send me a text! I’d love to know what you're thinking!

Click HERE to get my FREE online course, BECOMING LEADERS OF SHALOM.

100. The Spiritual Life of a Leader, with Tod Bolsinger, Executive Director of the Church Leadership Institute Apr 13, 2021

Show notes

The Church Leadership Institute is a new initiative of Fuller Theological Seminary intended to "form church leaders to lead faithful change in a rapidly changing and disruptive world."
In this inaugural episode of Spiritual Life and Leadership's partnership with the Church Leadership Institute, Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson have a conversation about leadership and formation for the sake of God’s mission in a rapidly changing world.
THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:

This is the inaugural episode of Spiritual Life and Leadership in partnership with Fuller Theological Seminary’s Church Leadership Institute.
Most church leaders were trained to be teachers and pastors, not organizational change leaders.
The Church Leadership Institute is committed to providing all kinds of resources to church leaders who are struggling with leading change in a changing world.
Tod Bolsinger’s book, Tempered Resilience, is designed to help leaders lead when they are no longer the expert.
Healthy leadership involves surrender—surrendering to God and surrendering to the reality of our situation.
The Church Leadership Institute helps people navigate times of fruitful surrender.
Healthy leadership involves death and resurrection. Leaders need to die to what they had expected and rise to what God calls us to.
Leaders need to be grounded in something other than their success at leading change.
We need to be transformed for the sake of the mission God has given us.
We need to ask, what are the metrics of the transformed life?
Markus Watson characterizes the mission of God as the restoration of shalom in the world.
Markus shares the story of how his church started a Food Pantry in the town of Westmorland, CA.
Leaders who navigate change well create an environment of experimentation.
“Don’t predict. Prototype.”
The Church Leadership Institute offers four broad types of resources to help leaders in churches lead change well:
- Courses
- Coaching
- Cohorts
- Consulting
To find out more about the Church Leadership Institute, go to www.depree.org/church or text CHANGE to 66866.