Spiritual Life and Leadership

Latest Episodes:

99. A Church that Shines, with Tara Beth Leach, author of Radiant Church Mar 30, 2021

Show notes

Radiant Church, by Tara Beth Leach, is an invitation to the church to restore "the credibility of our witness."
It's no secret that the church in the West has been in decline for decades. Why is that? Could it be because the world no longer sees a radiant body of Christ, but rather a people who are angry, judgmental and self-centered?
This conversation with Tara Beth Leach explores what the church has lost in terms of our witness—our radiance in the world—and how we might be able to reclaim it.
THIS EPISODE'S HIGLIGHTS INCLUDE:

Tara Beth Leach is the author of Radiant Church and Pastor of Missional Living at Christ Church in Oak Brook, Illinois.
Tara Beth shares about her transition from Los Angeles back to Chicago.
Tara Beth talks about why she wrote Radiant Church.
Radiant Church is written as a critique of white evangelicalism. Tara Beth hopes to lead the church into a healthy deconstruction.
Tara Beth asks, “What if we’re in a post-Christian church?”
“Our call throughout the entire narrative of scripture is to be a holy, radiant, counter-cultural community.”
The church should live in such a way that the world would be drawn to us. Unfortunately, we seem to have done the opposite.
White pastors in particular need to listen.
Tara Beth Leach shares a story in which she told a black classmate that racism didn’t exist anymore. But she learned differently and discovered she needed to listen more.
Tara Beth recalls a story she tells in Radiant Church where she cancelled an annual choir concert in order to call the church to pray for racial healing at an event at Pasadena city hall.

RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:

Books mentioned:
- Radiant Church, by Tara Beth Leach
- Jesus and John Wayne, by Kristin Kobes du Mez
- Canoeing the Mountains, by Tod Bolsinger
- Tempered Resiliance, by Tod Bolsinger
Related Episodes:
- Episode 28: Empowering Women in Ministry, with Tara Beth Leach
Church Leadership Institute

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98. Deconstruction and Reconstruction, with A.J. Swoboda, author of After Doubt Mar 16, 2021

Show notes

Deconstruction is the dismantling of one’s theological concepts. Which sounds really bad, doesn’t it?

But it doesn’t have to be. Deconstruction doesn’t have to conclude with the loss of one’s faith. In fact, it can lead to an even deeper relationship with Jesus.

A.J. Swoboda has written an eye-opening book titled After Doubt: How to Question Your Faith without Losing It, in which he explores not only the experience of deconstruction, but also reconstruction. And that’s exactly what we talk about in this episode.
THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:

A.J. Swoboda is Assistant Professor Bible and Theology at Bushnell University, leads a D.Min. program on the Holy Spirit and Leadership at Fuller Seminary, and co-hosts the In Faith and Doubt podcast. And author of After Doubt.
Deconstruction is the dismantling of one’s theological concepts.
We all go through three major stages in our belief journey: construction, deconstruction, and reconstruction.
People who are able to enter the reconstruction stage—after experiencing deconstruction—share some things in common.
According to Kendra Creasy Dean, author of Almost Christian, such people (1) saw their parents go through something difficult and kept following Jesus, and (2) had at least five Christian adults in their life.
Many young people seem to be engaging in deconstruction in order to better follow Jesus.
Many people are deconstructing “fake Christianity,” not actual Christianity.
When we know someone who is experiencing deconstruction, sometimes we need to just listen.
For A.J. Swoboda, the goal of deconstruction and reconstruction is to come back to the same Jesus, but in a new way.
The story of the Prodigal Son in Luke 15 is a type of deconstruction and reconstruction story.
In the past, honor cultures preserved traditions. But we live in an achievement culture, which presses toward the new and lets go of the past. This is one reason why deconstruction is so common.
“For those in deconstruction, more often than not, the itch is of the heart, not of the mind.”
A.J. Swoboda reflects on whether pastors and leaders need to deconstruct.
We need communities where people in construction, deconstruction, and reconstruction are all worshiping together.

RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:

A.J. Swoboda:
- Twitter: @mrajswoboda
- Website: ajswobodawrites.com
Books mentioned:
- After Doubt, by A.J. Swoboda
- Almost Christian, by Kendra Creasy Dean
Related episodes:
- Episode 70: The Subversiveness of Sabbath, with A.J. Swoboda

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97. Not a Throw-away Kid, with Amy Watson, host of Wednesdays with Watson Mar 10, 2021

Show notes

Amy Watson, host of Wednesdays with Watson, shares her story of trauma and healing, and shows leaders how to care for those who have experienced deep trauma.
I'm also joined by guest co-hosts Shea and Michelle Watson from The Pantry Podcast. Yes, all four of us have the same last name and none of us are related to each other! This podcast is part of what we are affectionately calling "The Watson Takeover"!
We're all interviewing each other this week. Please check out all our shows!
THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:

Amy Watson is the host of the Wednesdays with Watson podcast. Shea and Michelle Watson host The Pantry Podcast.
Amy Watson shares the story of being sexually and physically abused as a child.
At the age of fourteen, Amy was abandoned by her mom.
Amy Watson was soon taken in temporarily by a pastor and his wife.
Eventually, Amy was placed in a children’s home. She remembers these as the best years of her life.
In her young adulthood, Amy entered into an abusive marriage.
Amy’s pastor’s wife helped her get out of her marriage.
Amy Watson reminds herself often that she is not a throw-away kid. She is a precious daughter of the Most High God.
Amy Watson’s passion is to help people know that they don’t have to live in the darkness, even if they are trauma survivors.
For Amy, “love” always referred to something for which she would owe something in return.
Pastors need to know that when they meet someone who has been abused and traumatized, they simply want to be loved without expecting anything in return.
Pastors need to look for the "Amy Watsons" in our churches.
Churches need to take the stigma away from mental health and PTSD (Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder).
According to Amy Watson, “Me too” are two of the most powerful words in the English language.

RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:

Podcasts:
- Wednesdays with Watson, with Amy Watson
- The Pantry Podcast, with Shea and Michelle Watson
Websites:
- Amywatsonauthor.com
- thirtyone25.com
Books:
- A Church Called Tov, by Scot McKnight and Laura Barringer
- We Too, by Mary DeMuth

Instructions to leave a review of Spiritual Life and Leadership:

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96. Crossing Leadership Thresholds, with Jeff Crosby, Publisher of InterVarsity Press Mar 02, 2021

Show notes

Jeff Crosby, Publisher of InterVarsity Press, has learned the importance of discerning what he calls thresholds—those places and times in a leader's life when it becomes clear that a transition is about to take place. Jeff shares with us the way he has been able to discern how to navigate these leadership thresholds.
THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:

Jeff Crosby is the Publisher of InterVarsity Press, and the Chairman of the Board for the ECPA (Evangelical Christian Publishers Association).
When Jeff was in high school, he was given a Bible and a book titled, Me Be Like Jesus?by Leslie Flynn. This began his journey of faith.
Soon Jeff Crosby discovered authors like John Stott, Francis Schaeffer, James Sire, and Paul Little, all of whom were published by InterVarsity Press, the company for which Jeff has now been working for the past twenty-three years.
Jeff Crosby and his wife re-opened a Logos bookstore in 1983 near the Indiana University campus. Though this was a risk for a young couple, it was a calling.
Jeff and his wife continued running the bookstore until a competitor that branded itself as “The World’s Biggest Bookstore” came along. That competitor was Amazon.com.
Eventually, Jeff Crosby was invited to join InterVarsity Press.
In 2015, Jeff Crosby became the publisher of InterVarsity Press.
Jeff never aspired to be a chief executive of an organization. Originally, he wanted to be a truck driver!
Several people were instrumental in helping Jeff discern next steps:
- Jeff’s wife
- Mentors
- An informal “advisory council” of friends
Books have also provided guidance throughout his life.
As a natural peacemaker, one of Jeff’s greatest leadership challenges has been to recognize that the absence of conflict is not always possible or even desirable.
Jeff Crosby has grown in his ability to embrace mystery.
Jeff has found it is more important for leaders to be attentive listeners than polished presenters.
You can follow Jeff on Twitter at @jeffcrosby2. You can find out about InterVarsity Press at www.ivpress.com. And you are welcome to e-mail Jeff at jcrosby@ivpress.com.

RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:

Jeff Crosby
- Twitter: @jeffcrosby2
- E-mail: jcrosby@ivpress.com
InterVarsity Press website
Books mentioned:
- Me Be Like Jesus?by Leslie Flynn
- Visions of Vocation by Steven Garber
- Courage and Calling by Gordon Smith
- Let Your Life Speak by Parker Palmer
Related episodes:
- Episode 77: To Know the World and Still Love It, with Steven Garber, author of Visions of Vocation

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Links to Amazon are affiliate links. If you make a purchase through any of these links, I’ll receive a small commission–which will help pay for the Spiritual Life and Leadership podcast!

Send me a text! I’d love to know what you're thinking!

Click HERE to get my FREE online course, BECOMING LEADERS OF SHALOM.

95. Judgment and Grace, with Jay Bakker, pastor of Revolution Church Feb 16, 2021

Show notes

Jay Bakker, the son of televangelists Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker, was 11 years old when his parents’ ministry started to fall apart and only 13 when his dad began his prison term. It's hard to imagine what that experience must have been like for him.
In this episode, Jay Bakker and I talk about what it was like for him. And we talk about how his experience shaped him spiritually—especially in regard to his understanding of judgment and grace.
THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:

Jay Bakker is the pastor of Revolution Church and the son Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker.
Elton John is currently working on a musical about Jay’s mom and a movie about Jay’s parents, titled The Eyes of Tammy Faye, is coming out in 2021 or 2022.
Jay Bakker shares what it was like for him as a kid when his family’s life and ministry fell apart.
Jerry Falwell turned on Jim Bakker.
For a while, Jay thought that God must be a mean, angry God.
Jay Bakker started Revolution Church when his dad was released from prison.
Jay shares how he discovered the idea of grace, which, he says is still evolving in his life.
Jay learned what love for others looks like by watching his parents.
Jim Bakker helped Jay learn to forgive Jerry Falwell.
Jay talks about Tammy Faye’s witness when she was on The Surreal Life.
So often we return bad for bad, judgment for judgment. But we need to stop judging each other.
You can find out more about Jay Bakker at revolutionchurch.com. You can also listen to the Revolution podcast and follow Revolution Church on Facebook. You can also connect with Jay on Twitter at @jaybakker and on Instagram at @jaybakker.

RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:
Books mentioned:

Instructions to leave a review of Spiritual Life and Leadership:

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94. Centering Prayer, with Rich Lewis, author of Sitting with God Feb 02, 2021

Show notes

Centering prayer is a form of silent, wordless prayer and a wonderful practice for spiritual formation. Rich Lewis, author of Sitting with God: A Journey to Your True Self Through Centering Prayer, has been practicing centering for a long time. He has writes about centering prayer, trains individuals and groups how to practice centering prayer, and in this episode teaches us how to engage in centering prayer.
THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:

Rich Lewis is the author of Sitting With God: A Journey to Your True Self Through Centering Prayer.
Though he has always enjoyed times of silence, Rich Lewis discovered the practice of centering prayer in 2013 through a book titled Healing the Divide by Amos Smith.
Centering prayer is a form of silent, wordless prayer.
Centering prayer was developed by three Trappist monks in the 1970’s.
You can learn a lot about centering prayer at the Contemplative Outreach website.
Centering prayer involves these steps:
- Sit quietly.
- Select a sacred word (e.g., Jesus, love, ocean).
- Introduce the word in your interior.
- When your mind gets distracted, come back to the center with your sacred word.
- Sit quietly until your time of centering prayer is done.
The sacred word doesn’t have to be a word. It could be an image. Rich uses an icon of Jesus as his centering anchor.
In centering prayer, it’s almost like God prays in us.
Centering prayer can lead to deep inner healing.
We are able to connect with our true self in centering prayer.
Rich Lewis offers a free e-book on centering prayer at his website, silenceteaches.com.

RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:

Books:
- Sitting with God, by Rich Lewis
- The Heart of Centering Prayer, by Cynthia Bourgeault
- Centering Prayer and Inner Awakening, by Cynthia Bourgeault
- Healing the Divide, by Amos Smith
Websites
- www.silenceteaches.com
- www.contemplativeoutreach.org
Spiritual Life and Leadership Facebook Group
Episode 44: Spiritual Formation and Lectio Divina, with Eric Nevins, Host of Halfway There

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Links to Amazon are affiliate links. If you make a purchase through any of these links, I’ll receive a small commission–which will help pay for the Spiritual Life and Leadership podcast!

Send me a text! I’d love to know what you're thinking!

Click HERE to get my FREE online course, BECOMING LEADERS OF SHALOM.

93. Is American Unity Possible? Jan 26, 2021

Show notes

Is American unity possible? Americans have wrestled with this question for years. After a violent insurrection and a new administration now in place, the question seems more important than ever.
Clearly, the United States is a divided nation. So divided, in fact, that many believe unity is not possible. How can staunch Trump supporters unite with the Democratic party? How can staunch Biden supporters unite with the Republican party? It seems beyond the realm of possibility.
And, yet, I believe we can rebuild unity. In this episode, I share my thoughts on how to do that--not by getting everyone to agree on everything, but by taking small steps toward civility, kindness, and respect toward one another.
THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:

America is terribly polarized. Is American unity possible?
I think American unity is possible. What seems impossible for human beings is possible with God.
Unity is not uniformity. We don't all have to be the same or agree on everything.
The Trinity is an example of unity in diversity. The church is also an example of unity in diversity.
How can we begin to rebuild American unity?
- Start with civility.
- Start with your friends and family.
- Give each other the benefit of the doubt.
- Listen, really listen, to each other.
- Pray for each other.
Is American unity possible? If we take these small steps, I believe it is.

RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:

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92. Against a Culture of Abuse, with Scot McKnight and Laura Barringer, authors of A Church Called Tov Jan 19, 2021

Show notes

Scot McKnight and Laura Barringer have written a powerful book that addresses abuse of power in churches. The book is titled, A Church Called Tov, and the purpose is to help churches nurture cultures of goodness (the meaning of the Hebrew word tov).
In this episode, we discuss why some churches develop toxic cultures of abuse and how to work against that by nurturing cultures of goodness.
THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:

Laura Barringer is a second grade teacher and this is her second book co-authored with her father, Scot McKnight.
Scot McKnight is the Professor of New Testament at Northern Seminary. He is also a prolific author and an ordained Anglican deacon.
Scot McKnight and Laura Barringer were attending Willow Creek Community Church when allegations against Bill Hybels began to emerge.
Scot and Laura were led to write about the need for a goodness culture in churches. This is why they wrote A Church Called Tov.
Willow Creek was misusing Scripture as it defended itself.
Scot McKnight explains why they felt it was important to name the pastors who abused women in their churches when writing A Church Called Tov.
In the Bible, people’s stories are told “warts and all.”
Tov is the Hebrew word for “good.” Tov describes the fullness of total moral behavior.
A tov church/pastor/elder/person does not abuse power, women, or children.
Scot McKnight is not comfortable with “leadership culture” in churches. The word “leader” is not a significant word in the New Testament.
Pastors should not be promoted as superstars.
We won’t develop a culture of tov if we are only counting how many people show up on Sundays.
Scot McKnight is interested in seminaries becoming institutes of tov formation.
You can reach Scot and Laura on Twitter at @scotmcknight and @laurambarringer.
You can follow Scot McKnight's work at his Jesus Creed blog.

RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:

Books mentioned:
- A Church Called Tov, by Scot McKnight and Laura Barringer
- The Blue Parakeet, by Scot McKnight
- A Fellowship of Differents, by Scot McKnight
- Junia is Not Alone, by Scot McKnight
Twitter:
- Scot Mcknight, @scotmcknight
- Laura Barringer, @laurabarringer
Scot McKnight's Blog:
- Jesus Creed blog
Online course:
- Leading Your Church Through Change

—
Links to Amazon are affiliate links. If you make a purchase through any of these links, I’ll receive a small commission–which will help pay for the Spiritual Life and Leadership podcast!

Send me a text! I’d love to know what you're thinking!

Click HERE to get my FREE online course, BECOMING LEADERS OF SHALOM.

91. Prayer for a President in Pain Jan 09, 2021

Show notes

The events of this past week, and especially January 6, 2021, have been astonishing. Never did I imagine that American citizens would attack and infiltrate the United States Capitol building. But it happened.
And at the center of this is Donald Trump, the President of the United States. As problematic as Donald Trump's presidency has been, he is a beloved child of God who is in deep pain right now. And I feel compelled to pray for him with compassion.
In this episode, I share some of my thoughts on the events of January 6, Donald Trump's character, and the pain he must be feeling right now.
THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:

The insurrection and storming of the U.S. Capitol was an unbelievable and horrifying event.
Donald Trump's character and leadership led to this insurrection because Donald Trump established an "us vs. them" mentality.
Donald Trump's presidency has proven to be a failure in these final weeks.
Now, Donald Trump is in considerable pain.
We need to pray with compassion for Donald Trump.
Markus prays for Donald Trump.

RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:

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Select the number of stars and write your review.
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90. Transformative Loss, with Kevin White, author of Audacious Generosity Jan 05, 2021

Show notes

Kevin White, author of Audacious Generosity, shares his story of being terminated from the church he had planted just a few years earlier. That experience could have crushed him. But gave him deeper clarity about what really matters—and it led to a whole new ministry that blesses hundred of people every month.
THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:

Kevin White is the Executive Director of Global Hope India and author of Audacious Generosity.
Kevin White shares how his organization, Global Hope India, had to pivot during the pandemic.
Kevin’s primary purpose in life is to pursue God’s presence.
The church that Kevin had planted voted to let him go after several years. This was an incredibly painful moment in Kevin’s life. It was this experience that showed him that God’s presence is the most important thing.
This led to a time of extreme financial insecurity.
Because of the financial insecurity, Kevin White and his family started a ministry that provided food both for his family and eventually for five hundred families every month.
The experience of loss and suffering makes us more compassionate.
Kevin White’s experience of loss and suffering led him to start his organization, Global Hope India.
God’s plan has always been audacious generosity.
Audacious generosity is a means toward the end of experiencing God’s presence.
When people experience suffering and loss they can become cynical and bitter or they can become healthy and compassionate. Kevin White says that it was the practice of forgiveness that helped him become healthy and compassionate.

RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:

Kevin White:
- Website – kevinwhite.us
- Instagram - @kevinwhiteus
- Facebook - @kevinwhite.usa
- Twitter - @kevinwhiteus
- LinkedIn - @kevinwhiteus
- E-mail – kevin@kevinwhite.us
Books mentioned:
- Audacious Generosity, by Kevin White
- Beyond Thingification, by Markus Watson
Other Resources:
- Beyond Thingification Study Guide

Instructions to leave a review of Spiritual Life and Leadership:

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