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    Religion & Spirituality

    Listen, Learn & Love Hosted by Richard Ostler

    Welcome to our podcast!

    My name is Richard H. Ostler and I am a native of Salt Lake City, small business owner, married father of six with several grandchildren. I believe in and am deeply committed to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and want it to work for a wider group.
    I am the author of three books:

    “Listen Learn and Love: Embracing LGBTQ Latter-day Saints” published in 2020 available at Amazon (amazon.com/dp/1462135773)

    “Listen Learn and Love: Improving Latter-day Saint Culture” published in 2022. The book explores who we can do better to help all Latter-day Saints feel more welcome, needed and a feeling of belonging in our congregations. Available at Amazon (amazon.com/dp/1462139566)

    “Listen Learn and Love: Building the Good Ship Zion” released in Sept 2023. The book explores additional topics to help all Latter-day Saint feel welcome and needed on the Good Ship Zion. Available at Amazon (amazon.com/dp/1462145280)

    The purpose of all three books is to help us better create Zion by helping more feel welcome, a sense of belonging, and needed in our congregations.

    Proceed from the books go the Stockton Power Memorial Scholarship (www.standingforstockton.com) in honor of Stockton Powers a gay Latter-day Saint teenager who died of suicide in 2016. Everything I do is a self-funded labor of love ❤️

    I am the author of two Ensign articles:

    ‘How the Savior’s Healing Power Applies to Repenting from Sexual Sin’ (August 2020/YSA Digital Only) www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2020/08/young-adults/how-the-saviors-healing-power-applies-to-repenting-from-sexual-sin

    ‘7 Tips for Overcoming Pornography Use’ (October, page 72) www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2020/10/young-adults/7-tips-for-overcoming-pornography-use.

    This podcast is designed to discuss some more complicated issues in our church to help all of us better “listen, learn and love” so we can minister in a more effective way to all of our Heavenly Parents’ children.

    Podcasts are indexed by category at listenlearnandlove.org/podcasts

    Thank you for joining us. You can’t donate to this podcast. There are no sponsors. But you can leave a review/rate the podcast on the platform you are listening and/or leave a review at Deseret Book/Amazon on my books.

    With love, Richard ‘Papa’ Ostler ❤

    Twitter: twitter.com/Papa_Ostler
    IG: www.instagram.com/papa_ostler
    Facebook: facebook.com/richard.ostler.5
    Substack: https://substack.com/@papaostler
    E-mail: richard@ostlergroup.com

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    Copyright: © All rights reserved

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    Latest Episodes:
    Episode 652: Dr. Julie Fraumeni-McBride, Researcher and Educator on Women Porn Use Jun 05, 2023
    Show notes

    My friend Dr. Julie Fraumeni-McBride (married LDS mother of six children) joins us from her home in Temecula, CA to talk about helping women solve porn use. Julie (who got her PhD in Education and Disabilities Studies and now is a Researcher and Education Program designer at the Steadfast Institute) helps us understand the latest research to end porn use. Julie talks about why the addiction/recovery model is not supported by the latest research—while the ACT model is. Julie also talks about framing porn as a reliance and not an addiction. She talks about helping people deconstruct the shame around porn and how that is a key step to ending porn use. Julie also talks about how parents need to be the “trusted experts” for their children regarding topics around human sexuality—included why this is important, how to do this, and how normalizing these types of conversations is important and doesn’t lead to more curiosity. I was deeply moved by Julie’s insights as a researcher and program designer. I’m grateful for Julie’s voice using facts to give us more tools to solve porn use. If you are working to end porn use (male or female) or what to help others, this will be one of the most helpful podcasts for you. Thank you, Julie, for all your needed work in our community and beyond. Podcast Links: The Steadfast Institute: https://www.thesteadfastinstitute.org/ Dr. Fraumeni-McBride’s Instagram Page: @drfraumenimcbride The Steadfast Institute Instagram Page: @thesteadfastinstitute Researchers mentioned: Brian Willougby https://familylife.byu.edu/directory/brian-willoughby Nathan Leonhardt https://familylife.byu.edu/directory/nathan-leonhardt Chelom Leavitt https://familylife.byu.edu/directory/chelom-leavitt Dean Busby https://fhssfaculty.byu.edu/directory/dean-busby Jason Carroll https://familylife.byu.edu/directory/jason-carroll

    Episode 651: Josh Sabey, LDS filmmaker and Author, New Book Called “Ali: The Iraqi”. Jun 03, 2023
    Show notes

    My friend Josh Sabey (married father of two, noted documentary filmmaker) joins us to talk about his new book called “Ali, The Iraqi”. It is a story (both factual and fictional) of a 16 year old Iraqi exchange student named Ali moving to the United States and staying with Josh and his family. When Ali runs away from the program, it takes some Mormons, a Non-denominational Christian, and an Atheist to help Ali survive and reconnect with his Muslim faith. On the podcast, Josh shares stories from the book that show the sustaining power of love and faith—even across different religions. It’s a powerful story about reducing divineness, finding common ground, and loving/supporting each other. I encourage everyone to check out Josh’s book. Links: Josh's book is available on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1948218844 As a bonus, here is an essay Josh recently had published in Wayfare Magazine: https://www.wayfaremagazine.org/p/god-and-onions Personal website is: https://www.joshuasabey.com/

    Episode 650: Michele Portlock, Raising Neurodivergent Children Jun 01, 2023
    Show notes

    My friend Michele Portlock (married mother of 4) joins us to share her story. Michele talks about parenting neurodivergent children (e.g. ADHD, Autism) which led her to go back to college to get a Masters Degree in special education and start an LLC called Navigating the Spectrum—which also includes a podcast. Michele brings her experience as a parent, academic training, and professional work to bring more tools and understanding to “better show up” for neurodivergent children. I learned so much listening to Michele. Michele also talks about her gay daughter Brielle who recently graduated college. She talks about working through autism, anxiety, and dark times around her sexual orientation—to now a thriving daughter who is doing much good in the world with her college work and her plans for a PhD. Michele talks about the correlation between neurodivergent children and not being straight—but she clearly points out that being neurodivergent is a diagnosis while not being straight is who people are. And ending being neurodivergent doesn’t change someone sexual orientation/gender identity. Michele also talks about the journey to love and support her daughter Brielle as she has stepped away from the Church and rebuilding their relationship in new and thoughtful ways. Thank you, Michele, for being on the podcast and your wonderful work in our community. I encourage all parents (even without neurodivergent children) to listen to this podcast to learn how we can better love and support others. Podcast Links: Website: www.micheleportlock.com Instagram: @navigating.the.spectrum Ministering to LGBTQ Latter-day Saints Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143 Richard Ostler Book: Embracing LGBTQ Latter-day Saints: Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773

    Episode 649: Debra Oaks Coe, Belong Research, LDS Mother of Gay Son May 30, 2023
    Show notes

    My friend Debra Coe (active LDS mother of 5) and longtime LGBTQ Ally joins us to share the latest research on Gen Z (the loneliest generation), their mental health and what we can do to help them feel needed and a clear feeling of belonging. This is the focus of her latest Op-Ed in the Deseret News in March 2023 (see show notes for link). Debra talks what we can do to be a “trusted adult” and what we can do to help people feel like they matter—in both our congregations and ward families. Debra shares some family story with her gay son Lincoln (who came out and married his husband Robert in 2017). She talks about how their family and congregation navigated this (part of their beautiful family love story). If you are looking for research, insights, and practical examples about creating belonging in your family and/or congregation, I encourage you to listen to this episode and share it with others. Thank you, Debra, for being on the podcast and your needed work in our community to save lives and bring us together. Podcast Links: Debra’s Deseret News Op-Ed: https://www.deseret.com/opinion/2023/3/20/23645047/religion-belonging-gen-z-mental-health Sheep Story: https://www.facebook.com/debra.coe/posts/10158288638770838 Earlier Episode on Our Podcast (Episode 16): https://soundcloud.com/user-818501778/episode-16-don-and-debra-coe-parents-of-a-wonderful-gay-son Ministering to LGBTQ Latter-day Saints Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143 Richard Ostler Book: Embracing LGBTQ Latter-day Saints: Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773

    Episode 648: Richard E. Turley Jr. & Barbara Jones Brown May 27, 2023
    Show notes

    My friends Richard Turley and Barbara Jones Brown, noted Latter-day Saint historians, join us to talk about their powerful new book about the Mountain Meadows Massacre of an Arkansas wagon train in 1857. Through their extensive research, they answer questions about why it happened, who was responsible, Bigham Young’s understanding/involvement, descendants of victims stories/interactions, and reconciliation. I was deeply moved—sometimes to tears—learning about this tragic part of Latter-day Saint history. Understanding and owning our history is key to reconciliation and ensuring the same cycle of fear and extremism isn’t repeated. I am so grateful for Rick and Barbara and their work to write this history, connect with the descendants of the victims, and help heal hearts. This book is both a thoughtful academic book and a powerful story of pain, heartache, tragedy, and reconciliation. I encourage everyone to read this book and listen to this podcast. Thank you Rick and Barbara for being on the podcast and your much-needed work in our community. Podcast links: Vengeance is Mine: The Mountain Meadows Massacre and Its Aftermath: www.amazon.com/dp/0195397851 Massacre at Mountain Meadows (earlier book): www.amazon.com/dp/0199747563 E-mail: mmmreconciliation@gmail.com

    Episode 647: Aaron and Julie Bujnowski; New Book: Discovering Your Temple Insights May 25, 2023
    Show notes

    My friends Aaron and Julie Bujnowski (married parents of two; living North of Dallas, Texas), join us to talk about their love of the Temple and its ability to connect us with Jesus and personal revelation, which led to writing a book called “Discovering Your Temple Insights.” The book is different than most Latter-day Saint books about the Temple. As one reader called it, “Come follow me for the Temple.” In the podcast, Aaron and Julie (who both grew up in Nashville, Tennessee) share what they have learned during years of temple attendance and provide practical steps to make the Temple more real in our lives in terms of both the blessings of keeping covenants but also the ability to receive insights and personal revelation inside and outside the Lord’s house. I love the Temple and am grateful for Aaron and Julie bringing forth this excellent book—really a working guide—to make the Temple more real in our lives. Please check out their podcast and book---I believe it will bless your life. Thank you, Aaron, and Julie, for your thoughtful and needed work. Podcast Link: Discovering Your Temple Insights: Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1462144756 Deseret Book: https://deseretbook.com/p/discovering-your-temple-insights

    Episode 646: Ben Ferney, Gay Latter-Day Saint, Former Weber State Student Body President May 22, 2023
    Show notes

    My friend Ben Ferney (Australia Sydney RM, Former Weber State LDS Institute President, and Weber State Student Body President) joins us to share his story. Ben talks about the hope and happiness that is ahead for LGBTQ people. He talks about trying to date women and dodging questions about his apparent lack of interest in dating. After a brake up, Ben concluded she was the last girl he would date. That led Ben to come out to his family and friends (very positive support). Ben then talks about his decision to date men and doing that with God and his family’s involvement with intention and with boundaries. Ben talks about finding Calvin Smith (Episode 432, https://soundcloud.com/user-818501778/episode-432-calvin-smith-rm-byu-grad-gay-active-lds-plans-to-marry-a-man) last year and falling in love and their decision to be married in July of 2023. Ben and Calvin (who shared some thoughts on the podcast) talk about their active LDS family support (including being present for the engagement) and their desire to stay church-attending Latter-day Saints. Ben talks about his relationship with God, Jesus, his love of the Church, and desire to continue to help and lift others. Ben talks about his desire to build a life together with Calvin, have a family, and participate in the Church as much as they are allowed. I was moved by the maturity of Ben and Calvin. I encourage everyone (allies, parents, local leaders, queer Latter-day Saints) to listen to their story. It’s a story about courage, being intentional, going slow, showing grace to others on different paths, and keeping God in their lives. Thank you, Ben, for being on the podcast. Congrats on your upcoming wedding. Your story will help so many. Podcast Links: Ministering to LGBTQ Latter-day Saints Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143 Richard Ostler Book: Embracing LGBTQ Latter-day Saints: Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773

    Episode 645: Jim Kasen, New LDS Book, Recently Retired BYU Director May 19, 2023
    Show notes

    My friend Jim Kasen (active LDS, mid 60’s, Same Sex Attraction) shares his story of his deep religious conversion/conviction; his anxiety; and his same sex attraction. Jim talks about how his Savior has been his constant rock in navigating the realities of his life including navigating difficult church experiences around his sexual orientation and why he stays a member of the Church. Jim has written a new book called “To Belong to Him” which I encourage everyone to read. In the book, Jim talks about the practical application of his relationship with the Savior as the foundation of his faith—and his way to move forward as a committed Latter-day Saint. The principles in Jim’s book apply to all of us. Jim’s book/story is a life of faith, courage, hope, and grace. I encourage everyone to listen to Jim’s podcast and read his book. Thank you, Jim, for all your work in our community as a clinical social worker, as the director of BYU University Relations, and as a kind and generous disciple of Christ. Podcast Links: Jim’s Book: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BXTSC82N NorthStar June Conference: https://www.northstarsaints.org/2023-north-star-conference To Begin Again by Naomi Levy: https://www.amazon.com/dp/0345413830 Ministering to LGBTQ Latter-day Saints Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143

    Episode 644: Skyler Sorensen, LDS Author, Gay Latter-day Saint May 16, 2023
    Show notes

    My friend Skyler Sorensen joins us to talk about his new book called “Exclude Not Thyself: Thriving as a Covenant-Keeping, Gay Latter-day Saint”. In the podcast Skyler talks about why he wrote the book, principals to love LGBTQ Latter-day Saints in a faith-centered way, and some of his story including finding his wife Amanda and starting a family (a beautiful love story). Skyler also talks about his podcast called “Sit Down with Sky and Amanda” and his upcoming breakout session at NorthStar (June 15-18, 2023). I was deeply moved listening to Sky share his story. I encourage everyone to check out his new book and podcast. Thank you Sky for being on the podcast and your good work in our community. You are a good man. Glad to have you on the podcast. Podcast Links: Skyler’s book (preorder): Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BXBFQ3VV Cedar Fort: https://www.cedarfort.com/products/exclude-not-thyself-how-to-thrive-as-a-covenant-keeping-gay-latter-day-saint Skyler’s Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/sit-down-with-sky-and-amanda/id1574970502 Ministering to LGBTQ Latter-day Saints Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143

    Episode 643: McArthur Krishna & Bethany Brady Spalding: “In the Image of our Heavenly Parents”. May 13, 2023
    Show notes

    Noted Latter-day Saint authors McArthur Krishna and Bethany Brady Spalding (who have co-authored 7 LDS books) join us to talk about their latest book called “In the Image of our Heavenly Parents: A Couples Guide to Creating a More Divine Marriage.” Celebrating restoration theology of Heavenly Parents, this guidebook offers twelve principles for creating more divine marriages–filled with prophetic counsel, professional expertise, and practices for partnership. Focusing on one principle a month, couples can embark on a year-long journey to create a marriage in the image of our Heavenly Parents–an equal partnership that is collaborative, committed to growth, mutually-empowering, and full of joy! The book includes contributors from LDS therapists Dr. Jennifer Finlayson-File, Dr Julie Hanks, Dr. Ty Mansfield, and Geoff and Judy Steurer. I was deeply moved listening to McArthur and Bethany learning about their ground-breaking book based on our doctrine of equality in marriages. At the end of the podcast, they also shared advice to Latter-day Saint women struggling to find their place in the Church—this is a powerful bonus segment. I encourage everyone to listen to this podcast and check out their book. Podcast Links: In order to make this vital tool as accessible as possible, we are offering a $10 discount on the ebook. At D Street press, please use code PAPA10. If finances prohobit your purchase, please email howdy@dstreetpress.com and we will work it out! https://dstreetpress.myshopify.com/products/a-couples-guide-to-creating-a-more-divine-marriage Otherwise, it’s available on Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/099860528X McArthur Krishna and Bethany Brady Spalding are the co-authors of the best-selling Deseret Book series, Girls Who Choose God and Guides to Heavenly Mother. They’ve spent the past decade writing books together–almost always living on different continents and always having a wild story to tell.

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