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    Religion & Spirituality

    Listen, Learn & Love Hosted by Richard Ostler

    Welcome to our podcast!

    My name is Richard H. Ostler and I am a native of Salt Lake City, small business owner, married father of six with several grandchildren. I believe in and am deeply committed to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and want it to work for a wider group.
    I am the author of three books:

    “Listen Learn and Love: Embracing LGBTQ Latter-day Saints” published in 2020 available at Amazon (amazon.com/dp/1462135773)

    “Listen Learn and Love: Improving Latter-day Saint Culture” published in 2022. The book explores who we can do better to help all Latter-day Saints feel more welcome, needed and a feeling of belonging in our congregations. Available at Amazon (amazon.com/dp/1462139566)

    “Listen Learn and Love: Building the Good Ship Zion” released in Sept 2023. The book explores additional topics to help all Latter-day Saint feel welcome and needed on the Good Ship Zion. Available at Amazon (amazon.com/dp/1462145280)

    The purpose of all three books is to help us better create Zion by helping more feel welcome, a sense of belonging, and needed in our congregations.

    Proceed from the books go the Stockton Power Memorial Scholarship (www.standingforstockton.com) in honor of Stockton Powers a gay Latter-day Saint teenager who died of suicide in 2016. Everything I do is a self-funded labor of love ❤️

    I am the author of two Ensign articles:

    ‘How the Savior’s Healing Power Applies to Repenting from Sexual Sin’ (August 2020/YSA Digital Only) www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2020/08/young-adults/how-the-saviors-healing-power-applies-to-repenting-from-sexual-sin

    ‘7 Tips for Overcoming Pornography Use’ (October, page 72) www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2020/10/young-adults/7-tips-for-overcoming-pornography-use.

    This podcast is designed to discuss some more complicated issues in our church to help all of us better “listen, learn and love” so we can minister in a more effective way to all of our Heavenly Parents’ children.

    Podcasts are indexed by category at listenlearnandlove.org/podcasts

    Thank you for joining us. You can’t donate to this podcast. There are no sponsors. But you can leave a review/rate the podcast on the platform you are listening and/or leave a review at Deseret Book/Amazon on my books.

    With love, Richard ‘Papa’ Ostler ❤

    Twitter: twitter.com/Papa_Ostler
    IG: www.instagram.com/papa_ostler
    Facebook: facebook.com/richard.ostler.5
    Substack: https://substack.com/@papaostler
    E-mail: richard@ostlergroup.com

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    Copyright: © All rights reserved

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    Latest Episodes:
    Episode 675: Jessop Oliver, Gay Latter-day Saint Jul 27, 2023
    Show notes

    My friend Jessop Oliver (age 25, starting a Master’s Program at Duke, Active LDS, RM, plans to marry a man) joins us to share his story. Jessop talks about growing up in Davis County (oldest of three) in a solid and loving family. Jessop bravely shares how porn use started out of curiosity because of his same-sex attraction. Jessop talks about being “proud of overcoming porn but lost with his sexuality” during his high school years. Jessop talks about how his “gay panic” led him to be a people pleaser, then later an overachiever, thinking he “couldn’t be rejected if I’m good at everything.” Jessop talks about his mission to Chile (great experience) and the spiritual foundation it gave him. Jessop talks about starting at Utah State and realizing he still had same-sex attraction and bravely opening up to his YSA Bishop (great experience). He talks about how this Bishop “loved me when I couldn’t love myself”. Jessop talks about dating women (short-lived relationships) and being faced with the reality of being gay and LDS. He talks about coming out to family and friends and the positive support he is receiving. Jessop talks about spiritual/positive experiences coming out, including a time when he was prompted to come out at a fireside. Jessop talks about why he started to date men, went back to date women, and then concluded that his path is going to be date men with the hopes of finding a husband with the same values/spiritual framework as him. Jessop talks about moving to Duke and coming out as gay in his YSA Ward during testimony meeting (he is now in the EQ Presidency) and the support he is receiving and his gratitude for the chance to serve. Jessop also talks about the reality of his road—knowing he will not be able to fully participate in the Church but wanting to stay connected with the Church and have a strong relationship with Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ. He talks about the people God placed in his life, and having an eternal perspective. He also encourages people to take time to listen to the perspectives of the people around them. Thank you, Jessop, for sharing your story. You are so brave. You have such a mature and solid foundation to chart the rest of your life. Thank you for being on the podcast. Your story helps others. Ministering to LGBTQ Latter-day Saints Facebook Group https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143 Richard Ostler Book: Embracing LGBTQ Latter-day Saints: Deseret Book: deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints?variant_id=189035-paperback Amazon: amazon.com/dp/1462135773 Index of Podcasts: listenlearnandlove.org/podcasts

    Episode 672: Laurel Greathouse, Left Church, Returned Jul 20, 2023
    Show notes

    My friend Laurel Greathouse (RM, same-gender attraction, early 30s) joins us to share her story. Laurel talks about her decision to serve a mission (San Diego, California) and coming home twice for health reasons. She shares what was helpful and not helpful as an early release missionary. Laurel then talks about leaving the Church and dating women for about 4 years. She then talks about spiritual impressions and people showing pure love that led her to reconnect with God, her true hopes and the Church. It is a remarkable story. If you are wondering if there is a way back for you—or if you are wondering about better insights to help a friend or family member—Laurel’s story will help you. Thank you for being on the podcast Laurel. You are very brave and courageous to share your story. You story will help so many! Links: Ministering to LGBTQ Latter-day Saints Facebook Group facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143 Richard Ostler Book: Embracing LGBTQ Latter-day Saints: Deseret Book: deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints?variant_id=189035-paperback Amazon: amazon.com/dp/1462135773 Index of Podcasts: listenlearnandlove.org/podcasts

    Episode 671: Richelle, Transgender LDS shares her story as a faithful LDS and a transgender woman. Jul 18, 2023
    Show notes

    Richelle begins by sharing some of the observations of her childhood and how these no doubt trying experiences helped to shape her life and strengthen her personal testimony as well as develop a strong relationship with the Savior—her experience and her journey have helped her to just “trust in the Lord” seek to find joy in your life and accept that all will be made right in the end. Richelle shares how she came to know that her long held feelings needed not be a source of shame and that embracing her gender dysphoria only fully surfaced after the unraveling of her marriage of 25 years. She talks about the peace and joy she feels being honest about her gender identity and helps us better understand how to support her and others on their unique path. She talks about attending her local ward and regaining trust with her priesthood leaders as everyone tries to do their best to love and support her—including some very positive experiences with her relief society sisters. Richelle talks about how some voices in society today seek to brand trans people as sexual perverts out to target their children. With deep emotion, Richelle talks about how painful that is to hear as in her sincere desire to embrace womanhood she only wants to nurture and defend children. We conclude with reading from the Church’s web page about loving and supporting transgender Latter-day Saints—and emphasize how the Church’s web site contains none of the politically charged statements otherwise being shouted out in the public arena. Richelle encourages us to remember the second greatest commandment and to be willing to get to know the individual just as the Savior knows us individually. Thank you, Richelle, for your courage to be on the podcast and share your story. You are a wonderful woman with a great life ahead of you! Links: Church's webpage on supporting transgender members: www.churchofjesuschrist.org/topics/transgender Index of Podcasts: listenlearnandlove.org/podcasts Ministering to LGBTQ Latter-day Saints Facebook Group facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143 Richard Ostler Book: Embracing LGBTQ Latter-day Saints: Deseret Book: deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773

    Episode 670: Dr. Chelom Leavitt, Associate Professor at BYU, Sexual Mindfulness Jul 16, 2023
    Show notes

    My friend Dr. Chelom Leavitt (JD from BYU Law School; Masters in Marriage, Family and Human Development BYU; PhD in Human Development and Family Studies Penn State) joins us to talk about research in sexual function, sexual mindfulness and the connection between sex and relationship well-being. Dr Leavitt—who teaches on this subject in the BYU School of Family Life and is a married mother of nine—talks about the research and this subject and how to teach it to improve sexual mindfullness in marriage—resulting in stronger marriages. She also talks about how it is Satan (not our Heavenly Father) that introduces shame into this subject and how/why talking about it is important in our marriages and talking about sex with our children. I learned so much listening to Dr. Leavitt—principles and insights I wish I had heard earlier in my life which would have given me better tools as a husband, father, and in my YSA service. Dr. Leavitt is doing groundbreaking work in our community and beyond and I encourage everyone to check out her podcast and her work. Thank you, Dr. Leavitt, for being on the podcast and your needed work. Links: Bio: chelomleavitt.com/ Podcast: chelomleavitt.com/podcasts/ BYU Page: fhssfaculty.byu.edu/directory/chelom-leavitt Sexual Wholeness in Marriage: amazon.com//dp/B00IIE0UR8/ A Better Way to Teach Your Kids about Sex: amazon.com/dp/B07FT7BNRV Psychology Today Page: psychologytoday.com/us/contributors/chelom-e-leavitt-jd-phd

    Episode 669: Andrew D. White, Gay Latter-day Saint, Convert, Left Church, Rebaptized Jul 14, 2023
    Show notes

    My friend Andrew White (age 29, finishing up dental school, living in the Kansas City area) starts with knowing he was attracted to the same gender around age 5 and recognizing he was gay around 15. Andrew talks about the events that led him to join the Church at age 15 (including a powerful dream) and then doing everything to ‘become straight’ including being active in the Church (becoming an Elder, going to BYU, temple endowment, and serving a mission)—all with the hope of “rewarded with being straight” and also wanting to help others feel the love of God and our Savior. Andrew then talks about the super difficult and painful church experiences on his mission and then at BYU which causes so much pain/trauma that Andrew felt his only path to healing was to resign from the Church in 2016. The things Andrew experienced on his mission and BYU are heartbreaking—church generated trauma is real for some members of our Church and something I’ve learned to validate even if I haven’t experienced it directly. Andrew then talks about his life out of the Church (very good experience) and then his spiritual promptings to return to the Church which happened with his rebaptism on June 10, 2023 by his lifelong friend Michael. Andrew bears a strong testimony of God’s love for all of His children and the need for inclusion and diversity as we create Zion. This is one of the most powerful podcasts we’ve done. I learned so much from Andrew about hope, healing, grace, and forgiveness. I’m grateful to so many in Andrew’s circle (friends, father and stepmom, allies, local church leaders and general authorities) who love and support Andrew—and see his great heart and needed contributions to build Zion. Andrew talks about a healing visit to the BYU Honor Code office and how that positive experience helped “over-write the trauma.”. Andrew concludes how he has gone from wanting to be “rewarded with being straight” to the “blessing of being gay.” Thank you, Andew, for being on the podcast. You are so brave. Honored to have you on the podcast. Your story will help so many. You have a great life ahead of you! Links: Ministering to LGBTQ Latter-day Saints Facebook Group www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143 Richard Ostler Book: Embracing LGBTQ Latter-day Saints: Deseret Book: deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773 Index of Podcasts: listenlearnandlove.org/podcasts

    Episode 668: Nigel Bull, Gay, Age 62, Lives in London Jul 12, 2023
    Show notes

    My friend Nigel Bull (who joined the Church at age 16, left, rebaptized at age 40, currently not active) joins us to share some of his story (complicated at times) as a gay Latter-day Saint. Nigel takes us back to like what it was to be gay in the '80's in the Church. Some of his story is painful to hear--but it helps us understand the realities of the road Nigel was walking. Nigel also shares his health challenges which led to being in a wheel chair starting in his late '20s and also being HIV positive and the unknows about that illness in the '80s. Nigel, who was suicidal at times, gives advice for others who are thinking of suicide to reach out (in the United States call/text/chat 988) and also "love yourself and believe in yourself." Nigel is one of my heroes for his courage to do his best to navigate being a Latter-day Saint and gay during a time with less understanding and support. You are a good man Nigel. I'm glad you are alive and all the people you have helped along the way. Glad to have you on the podcast! Links: Index of Podcasts: listenlearnandlove.org/podcasts Ministering to LGBTQ Latter-day Saints Facebook Group www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143 Richard Ostler Book: Embracing LGBTQ Latter-day Saints: Deseret Book: deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773

    Episode 667: Bekki Hood and Emily Cushing New Book: “She Did: Ordinary Women, Extraordinary Faith” Jul 10, 2023
    Show notes

    My friends Bekki Hood and Emily Cushing joins us to talk about their new book (published by Deseret Book in May 2023) about 23 remarkable Latter-day Saint women called “She Did: Ordinary Women, Extraordinary Faith.” Bekki and Emily share some of their own stories (education, careers) and the reasons for writing this book—which highlights the stories of 23 women. Most of these women are largely unknown to a broad Latter-say Saint audience—but typify the faithfulness of millions of Latter-day Saint women. Hearing their stories helps us develop courage and faith—and better vision to write our own stories. A few of the woman may be familiar to readers such as Aurelia Spencer Rogers (founded the Primary program); Irene Corbett (died on the Titanic, and subject of Elder Cook’s “The Songs They Could Not Sign 2011 Conference Talk); and Chieko Okazaki (former Relief Society General Presidency). The book shares more about these remarkable women including interviews with surviving family members. I encourage everyone (men and women) to read this book and share it with others. It helps give vision—especially to younger Latter-day Saints—on ways to serve and bless others. Thank you, Bekki and Emily, for being on the podcast and writing this book. Links: Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1639931325 Deseret Book: deseretbook.com/p/she-did?variant_id=201624-paperback Instagram Account: @shedidbook Elder Cook’s Talk: site.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2011/10/the-songs-they-could-not-sing?lang=eng

    Episode 665: Dr. Dan McClellan, Biblical Scholar, Data over Dogma Jul 08, 2023
    Show notes

    My friend Dan McClellan (married father of three, active LDS, @maklelan) joins us to share his story how his long academic road (two masters and a PhD) has opened unexpected doors for him to bring his biblical expertise and pastoral heart to bless others. Dan talks about how scripture should not be weaponized and how good scholarship helps us reduce vitriol and bring us together. Dan shares how he started a TikTok account in 2021 and how his work has grown to a major social presence on all platforms. Dan talks about how we should also use scripture teachings to help the marginalized and how they do not support identity politics. I was deeply moved listening to Dan and his fact based/scriptural approach to help us to better. Thank you, Dan, for being on the podcast and for your needed voice in our community and beyond. Links: TikTok: www.tiktok.com/@maklelan Instagram: @maklelan Twitter: @maklelan Facebook: www.facebook.com/daniel.o.mcclellan YouTube: www.youtube.com/@maklelan Podcast (Data over Dogma): podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/data-over-dogma/id1681418502 Dan McClellan bio: danielomcclellan.wordpress.com/about/

    Episode 664: Dr. Julia Bernards, BYU Dissertation on Transgender Latter-day Saints Families Jul 06, 2023
    Show notes

    My friend Dr. Julia Bernards (LDS married mother of 4, PhD from BYU, LMFT) joins us to talk about her 2022 BYU Dissertation called “This Whole Journey was Sacred: Latter-day Saint Parents’ Process in Coming to Accept a Transgender Child.” In her groundbreaking dissertation Julia shares the key findings of the research as well as a brief history of gender diversity, key terms to understand, perspectives on identity, grief and resiliency, and her research methodology (analyzing data from over a hundred LDS parents with a transgender child). She includes lots of quotes from parents as well as recommendations for clinicians. Julia's findings focus on the facets and stages of the family journey to love, accept and support a transgender child leading to peace and a strong family relationship. It is a journey that is not linear; it is unique to each family—but Julia frames this up in a way that provides hope, perspective, and principles to navigate this road. This is not just research for Julia as Julia and her husband Sam are parents of a transgender daughter, Emma. They bring their story as parents—combined with the research—to provide valuable insights. I was deeply moved listening to Julia. If you are a parent, local leader, or interested Latter-day Saint, I encourage you to listen to this podcast. It will help you understand and better support transgender Latter-day Saints. And if you are transgender, I believe this podcast will help you in our journey. Thank you, Julia, for your life-saving work in our community. Honored to have you on the podcast! Links: Dr. Julia Bernard’s Dissertation: https://scholarsarchive.byu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=10818&context=etd Transgender Podcasts at Listen Learn and Love (includes Episode 631 from Dave and Kimi Martin): https://listenlearnandlove.org/transgender-and-more-podcasts Ministering to LGBTQ Latter-day Saints Facebook Group www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143 Richard Ostler Book: Embracing LGBTQ Latter-day Saints: Deseret Book: deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773

    Episode 663: Marci McPhee, Active Divorced LDS, editor to Steve Young, Ostlers, Fatimah Salleh Jul 04, 2023
    Show notes

    My friend Marci McPhee (active LDS, now single, mother of six, grandmother of sixteen, writer & editor) joins us to talk about life lessons learned since joining the Church at age 16, being single after two temple marriages (with a cancellation of sealing between), raising a stepfamily in a duplex, her career in higher education, and now editor to folks like Steve Young, Fatimah Salleh, David Ostler, & two of my three books. Marci is dear personal friend, remarkable person, and gifted editor. Her personal story is powerful. It is one of the finest examples of “write your own story with Christ.” I encourage everyone to listen to Marci’s podcast—it will help you find peace, hope, and perspective in your life. You can connect with Marci at marcimcpheewriter.com

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