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    Business

    Trapital

    Trapital is where technology meets culture. Hear breakdowns on the most important trends in tech, media, and entertainment. Trapital founder Dan Runcie and various guests break down the moves that shape the rest of society. Learn more

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    Latest Episodes:
    How indify’s Co-Founder prettyboyshav Is Flipping The Economics Of The Record Business May 06, 2022
    Show notes

    The traditional record label model isn’t artist-friendly. That’s not a secret to anyone by now. Deals are notoriously long and feature a revenue split heavily tilted toward the label — not the artist. But an ambitious alternative has arisen in the last few years. Meet indify, a start-up co-founded by musician prettyboyshav and his two childhood best friends, Matthew Pavia and Connor Lawrence.indify is a platform that connects investors with up-and-coming artists. Investors can not only financially back artists, but also mentor them in matters like legal or marketing. But unlike a record deal, investments can be as short as a song-per-song basis. As prettyboyshav told me, it’s like “going on dates instead of marrying.” As an artist himself with millions of streams to his name, Prettyboyshav is specially equipped to carry out indify’s vision — to create a more equitable, prosperous music industry. indify was originally a music discovery tool when it launched in 2015. Using an algorithm, it identified emerging artists on the cusp of “blowing up” like Khalid, who the tool flagged way back in 2015. That technology still underpins its new business pivot as the “AngeList for the music industry.” To get a glimpse into indify’s innovative technology and mission, listen to my full interview with prettyboyshav. We covered a lot of topics, including the ones below:[3:39] indify’s Mission In The Music Industry [5:28] Why Artists Are Taken Advantage Of So Often[7:03] What Does indify Look For In Investors Wanting To Join The Platform? [10:16] The Potential For Culture-Setters To Financially Back An Emerging Artist[14:38] indify Vs. Record Labels [19:07] Is There A Glass Ceiling On Artists Who Don’t Sign With A Record Label? [23:35] Does indify Do Upfront Money Deals? [26:10] Principles That Guard indify’s Technology[29:27] indify Having Web 3.0 Values Despite Being Off-Chain [33:11] How prettyboyshav Juggles His Music Career And Being Start-Up FounderListen: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | SoundCloud | Stitcher | Overcast | Amazon | Google Podcasts | Pocket Casts | RSSHost: Dan Runcie, @RuncieDan, trapital.coGuests: prettyboyshav, @prettyboyshavEnjoy this podcast? Rate and review the podcast here! ratethispodcast.com/trapitalTrapital is home for the business of hip-hop. Gain the latest insights from hip-hop’s biggest players by reading Trapital’s free weekly memo. TRANSCRIPTIONprettyboyshav 00:00I truly, truly, deeply believe in it and feel it and empathize with the work that's being done because I believe in these values, which really comes down to community, right? And community ownership, community governance, I think these things are very powerful concepts. And I think these are very powerful ways for an artist to run their business.Dan Runcie 00:26Hey, welcome to the Trapital podcast. I'm your host and the founder of Trapital, Dan Runcie. This podcast is your place to gain insights from executives in music, media, entertainment, and more, who are taking hip hop culture to the next level. Today's guest is prettyboyshav. He's the co-founder and CEO of Indify, a platform that is helping people invest in the future of music. Indify connects merchant artists with the funding they need to build the biggest careers. On Indify, it brings together artists who want to grow and control their career on their terms. It also brings together investors who want to support and back these artists and have the know how to help bring them to the next level. It also brings together business partners who can help artists with marketing, legal, accounting, and many of the other things involved to help run the business. One of the things that Shav and I have always talked about and we agree on is that artists are founders. If you follow me anywhere, you've seen me talk about this, you see me reiterate this. And I think Shav himself is a great example of this. He very much approaches Indify this way, and he's also a recording artist himself, prettyboyshav has over 10 million streams. And we talked a lot about what it's been like for him, navigating both the CEO role and his role as an artist. But we also talk about what Indify has been up to and some of their progress they've ha. The company has had over a million dollars generated this past quarter and 2022 for the artists on its platform and over a billion streams for those artists collectively as well. We talk about the influence that some of the partners they've had as well, such as Alexis Ohanian, who was an early investor in Indify, some of the artists that he's been able to back, and ultimately what they're trying to build towards. We talked about how Indify is positioned relative to other alternative financing options in the music industry. We also talked about how it's positioned relative to record labels. And can an artist on one of these alternative financing platforms achieve the same success as the superstars that are on the major record labels? The folks that headline major music festivals, perform at the Super Bowl and things like that? This is a great conversation. And if you're interested in where the music industry is going, some other options, you'll love this one. Here's my chat with prettyboyshav. All right, we got the one and only prettyboyshav here with us today. He is the co-founder CEO of Indify, platform and a company that is helping artists embrace their independence. He is also an artist himself with over 10 million streams. Shav, welcome to the pod.prettyboyshav 03:15What's up, Dan? Good to be here, man. I've been wanting to come on here for a while.Dan Runcie 03:19Yeah. And I mean, you know that I've been following everything that you've all been doing. And it's been very interesting to see how you've navigated the industry and how you leverage the technology built to continue to do good things. So for those that are less familiar, what is Indify and what is it that you all are trying to help solve in the music industry?prettyboyshav 03:39Well, Indify is a marketplace that's helping artists raise funding on equitable terms from strategic partners. You could think of it as almost like AngelList for music. I think our premise is that the major labels and a lot of the old system and the traditional system, the music industry, kind of represent what you know, private equity did years ago on the venture side. And I think fortunately, we have things like YC and AngelList. Actually, one of these tweets is the Kanye tweet from around fall 2020, where he kind of talked about a lot of things that we've been talking about, but we think it's time that a lot of those standardized, founder-friendly, and digitize terms come to help artists who we believe are also founders raise funding equitably. Yeah. So it's been exciting. I think this is an evolution from our earlier platform, which was really just a discovery tool for the music industry and became an industry-standard tool across a ton of record labels and ended up identifying a ton of artists, early one that we're very known for is Khalid.Dan Runcie 04:34Nice, and I got to mention, because you mentioned the Kanye tweets behind you. Is one of those the one that's talked about the Y Combinator for the music industry?prettyboyshav 04:43Yes, that's exactly what it is, you know, “When I spoke to Katie Jacobs who's on the board of the Vivendi. We decided to create a YC for the music industry so artists have the power and transparency to be in control of our future. No more shady contracts, no more lifelong deals.” And this one is Alexis tweeting Blonde, because I showed Alexis Ohanian, who's our investor. I was like, man, you got to get deeper into Blonde and Frank Ocean because this thing is amazing.Dan Runcie 05:05Yeah, it's an amazing album. And I think, thinking more broadly about what you all are building, I think that venture for music is the pitch I've heard from you. I've heard references well with where you're seeing with this, but I feel like you're taking a bit of a more unique take on it than maybe just the YC model. So what does that look like? What do you see things playing out for you?prettyboyshav 05:28Well, I think what YC did, right, in building the safe and standardized docs, and more documentation and transparency has allowed founders to see, okay, what is par for the course? What are founder-friendly terms? You know, if you don't use a safe note, for a raise, or standardized docs, you're kind of, you know, totally left field, a ton of artists, I would say, you know, just anecdotally, like, one out of three artists we meet, a very high percentage have actually signed some sort of predatory, shady contract before they even get off the ground. And the lack of standardization at that early stage if you compare it to Venture Seed, Series A, Pre-seed, has made it so a lot of artists get taken advantage of at inception. And I think that's something that's very core to Indify to prevent that from happening to build the tools and education system so that artists can have an ecosystem or have kind of technology, such that they're protected.Dan Runcie 06:20And I think a lot of that you mentioned the partners they work with and the people they meet, because that, of course, is how people ended up in either good contracts or bad contracts. That's a lot of what's there right? And I think you've spoken before about this distinction between smart money versus dumb money, which I know has also been very common in investing and in tech as well. And I think the same can be said in music. And I know that you all do your job on both sides, both the artist side and the investor side to determine who can be entered into the program. So yeah, let's start with the investor side. What are the things that you look for when someone wants to join your platform because they want to invest in an artist?prettyboyshav 07:03Yeah, I think, you know, building on kind of some of the points you were making earlier to Dan, like, what is protection for artists? What is being artists first? This is something that at Indify we studied for six years, and these are nuanced questions, and I've studied it myself as an artist, right? You know, there's a ton of funding solutions that are out there, some fan investing, some loan investing, but you know, if it is a finance bro buying your song, or if it is, you know, a loan against your own streams, a lot of the times this can put the artists in a worse position than if they were to take no money at all, because now they're in the hole, X amount of dollars. And if all those dollars are not spent, wisely are spent in a way that they're amplifying, ultimately, your platform as an artist or your income as an artist. Now, you're not increasing your income, and you're in the hole 10, 20, 50k. And that's something that I think, you know, is important to make a distinction about because artists are founders. And we're not necessarily seeing founders prioritize capital, but prioritize the best partners when they're raising funds for their companies. I think the same is true for the smart business owners that are artists. And I think they should be respected as such, many of them are making six, seven figures a year that work with Indify. And part of the reason that that is, is they're not only I think, CEOs in their own right, and building their business on platforms like TikTok, Instagram, social media, shipping every day, right? Like we talked about shipping with founders, these artists are shipping every day. They're putting their stories out there, they're connecting with people. But they're also very, very smart to find business partners that know how to digital market their music, that know how to manage their operations, and they're hiring these partners and partnering with investors. And so what we look for, you know, there's generally two kinds of cohorts, I would say, one is spark music professionals that have had experienced breaking artists before. And we have certain kinds of thresholds for that, one of the thresholds we talked about is, has this partner work with an artist that has reached over 30,000 streams a day or not, even previous time? Or also, you know, influencers themselves. I think that's something that we're really excited about. It's a bit more on the early stage. But, for example, Alexis Ohanian invested in the artist Leah Kate, I think around, you know, when he least identified her on the platform, and he, that was all him. He went on the platform and he found her. She was even lower on the rank. She was at around 3000 streams per day. He's helped her grow using his platform and his base to now over a million streams a day. And we think that's an incredible example of a partnership. And we think those combinations together, a syndicate of sorts of these strategic professionals with strategic influencers that can gift an audience to younger artists, is the new way of music industry.Dan Runcie 09:51I'm sure there must be some nuance there, right because of course, someone like Alexis who is a fan, he understands that clearly, he has a lot of influence to be able to make things happen. But I'm sure you may also get interest for people in tech, let's say they were early at a startup, startup exited, they have some extra money. They may know nothing about the music industry, but they just want to get in. How are those conversations?prettyboyshav 10:16Well, I think, Alexis, and I'll tell the story, like, Alexis tweeted, I wish I could invest in Lizzo enterprises. And I tweeted back, invest in the next one on Indify, and somebody showed him the tweet, somehow, I caught him for five minutes at the US Open actually, and told him music investing safe, he said, you're a crazy person. Investing in music can't be safe, I tried it. And he, actually, you know, put his money where his mouth is, and he backed an artist. But I think with that was the spirit of somebody who wanted to help that artist and grow, with that was the spirit of somebody who wanted to spend time with Leah, who was a founder and help her develop both as an artist and as a businesswoman, an independent businesswoman who's building an incredible seven-figure per year revenue business. And so I think that that development, and I think more so with him, the ability to empower her as an entrepreneur. And that story, getting out there, I think, was what made for something really exciting with Leah. But I think what's really interesting is now bigger artists actually coming into the fold. We actually a huge artist, I'm not at liberty to say yet, in Q1, backed an artist, one of my favorite artists of all time, and this I think is going to happen more and more. What happens if LeBron starts backing artists on Indify, right? What happens if, you know, actors and actresses? What happens if Lisa, right, starts backing artists on Indify? I mean, these are artists that can bring real taste, culture, and audiences to those next generation of emerging artists. And I think when you're posed with signing your rights away to a major label or partnering with someone like that, I think it's a really exciting proposition for the future.Dan Runcie 11:48Yeah, this reminds me of an idea that I think it was Jack Butcher, if someone like that had mentioned on a podcast about looking at someone like a Canelo Alvarez or even Deontay Wilder, you have these prizefighters, boxers, and if they invest in artists, that artist is the one that walks out with them when they're doing their walk-up music, that is a huge platform, so able to introduce someone like that. I think that is…

    Full show notes at the publisher

    Young M.A and the $20 NFT Apr 29, 2022
    Show notes

    Music NFTs are all the rage as of late. Entering the mix is Young M.A, who dropped a capsule on April 19. But in true Young M.A fashion, she took a different approach to her first-ever NFT project.For one, each NFT is only $20, making it widely accessible to her diehard fanbase. That’s a departure from most artists-focused NFTs that are on the pricier side due to their limitedness. In total, Young M.A dropped five NFT collections with 250 editions in each — for a total of 1,250. Each of the five collections represents key moments in Young M.A’s career. From first going viral with her Brooklyn Chiraq freestyle to the smashing success of “OOOUUU” and other highlights. Moreover, the capsule is exclusive to new NFT marketplace Serenade. The platform prides itself on being eco-friendly in an industry widely criticized for its energy consumption. The NFT collection is just one way Young M.A is staying connected to her fans these days. She’s also on tour and has continued to invest in non-music products like her adult toy line. Here’s everything we covered in this episode:[0:00] Seeing where things go[2:45] Purpose Behind Young M.A’s NFT Drop[9:29] Surprising Price Point For Young M.A’s NFT Capsule[10:14] Young M.A Has Hesitations About The Drop (Honest Talk) [12:32] Prioritizing Long-Term Impact With Business Ventures[12:55] Young M.A’s Relationship With Fame[15:37] How Young M.A Approaches Non-Music Business Ventures[20:10] Partnering With Serenade For The NFT Drop[23:22] Keeping Up With Web 3.0 & Music Industry [28:00] Young M.A Understands Her Place In The IndustryListen: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | SoundCloud | Stitcher | Overcast | Amazon | Google Podcasts | Pocket Casts | RSSHost: Dan Runcie, @RuncieDan, trapital.coGuests: Young M.A, @youngma, serenade.co/@youngmaTrapital is home for the business of hip-hop. Gain the latest insights from hip-hop’s biggest players by readingTrapital’s free weekly memo. Transcript________________Young M.A 00:00When it comes to business, you might not always know. You can't always say you know people. Even if you research them, no matter what the situation is, sometimes things might not work for you. You know what I mean? So you just look more to it. And you see how it goes as it goes. I mean, seeing business situations I handled in the past, some things didn't go right. Some things went right, you know, and it's just like with them. I feel good, you know? And it was like, let's go, let's see where it goes. Let's take these events and take risks. Dan Runcie 00:31Hey, welcome to the Trapital podcast. I'm your host and the founder of Trapital, Dan Runcie. This podcast is your place to gain insights from executives in music, media, entertainment, and more, who are taking hip hop culture to the next level. Today's guest is Young M.A. You may know her for her hits like BROOKLYN (Chiraq), OOOUUU, and plenty others that helped her go six times platinum. I knew this was going to be a good interview because, the moment that I logged on to the chat, Young M.A was already in there. And her first words were "took you long enough." And that's what I knew that we're in for a good one. Young M.A came on the Trapital podcast because she just had an NF T drop for her latest single Aye Day Pay Day. And she did it as a series of stories throughout her career. And she launched her NFTs different than most artists do. As I've written and talked about on this podcast, people have looked at NFTs as a way to monetize and make a lot of money from being able to sell high-end products as collectibles. But Young M.A is going about in a different way. She only has 250 drops for each of the five NFTs in this collection. And she's only selling them for $20. That's it. So we talked about the decision, how she's approached this, and why she made the decision that she has. And I think a lot of this ties into her mentality. As an artist, Young M.A is one of the more strong proponents of being an independent artist and what that means. And we talked about how this relates to how she looks at record labels and a lot of the deals that she's turned down. And we also talked about some of Young M.A's investments too. She's invested in a bunch of different areas. So we talked about that. We also talked about some of the other trends happening in this music industry, how she keeps up with everything, how her team is structured, and a whole lot more. Hope you enjoy it as much as I did. Here's my chat with Young M.A. All right, today, we're joined by the one and only Young M.A, who has a big drop for us today. She is launching an NFT. And I'm excited and I want to hear more. So break it down. Why was now the time for you to make this drop happen?Young M.A 02:45I see. You know, I'm the same person. I don't, I don't talk all that extra “Aaah.” I keep it real. The big one since A1. You know what I mean? I honestly didn't know too much about it, you know what I mean? I used to see it every now and then. And I didn't understand what it was because I'm the type of person like, like, if it don't make sense to me at the moment of me seeing it, I'm just not going to pay attention. I don't see interest into things that everybody else see interesting, too, you know what I mean? So that was literally the case. But I didn't see it casually and then once my team brought it to my attention, it was like, oh, okay, I know what you're talking about, you know what I mean? Like, I've seen, so I'm guessing this is like the new way of things, new wave of things, or whatever. So focusing my attention, you know, just basically gave me the intellect of it, the background of it, detail and everything like that. Somehow, Okay, okay, no, still not understanding it too much. But you know, kind of intrigued into it. And they kind of like broke it down. So I was like, Yo, give me a little more like pinpoint, because like, I do want to understand this situation, because it'd be something that's going to be longevity, and something's that's gonna help, you know, long term future-wise. And it's like, one of the new way that's coming in, you know, why not, you know, at least, you know, check it out. So we talked more about it, had a meeting, and, and we came up with kind of like I did. So once they broke down the ideas to me of like, what's, like, the meaning of it. And also like, what I would do if I do it. And then it become a more of understanding that was like, Okay, now I can go, you know what I mean? It's not just like, like anything we ever did before. Like, it's not like, it's, like, we did but like more digital, you know what I mean? It's like what we did but digital, in a different sense. So I'm like, okay, I get it now. So once I got that understanding, there's like, I got more intrigued, and I was like, let's go. You know, I'm the type of person, like, I'd take risks. I don't believe in like, No, I gotta, I gotta be the see it to believe it type person, like, I got to see. You know, even if I got to take that risk. I had taken risk all my life, so now I was like, I want to take this risk of, a new risk of taking risk. Let's take this risk. So we got to to it on, whatever the case, got involved with a team or whatever. And we came to a point where it was like, alright, if I'm going to do this, you already know my vibe. Not going to do it on nobody else's terms and circumstances and shit like that. Like, I know how it moves. So me understanding that this is how it goes about, let's go into a route where it's going to make, make sense for me. That's always been my, my way of grinding since I came up. Anything that I've ever done always went in a sense of how I had to do, so on and, you know, still be independent, of course. So we came up with this, all my team came up with this plan of like just creating like a timeline of, like, when I first started. Literally from the ground up, like... I wouldn't say the ground up because literally I started from the ground like, like, probably like 19 years old. For like far as like when social media and stuff like that really came into play as far as music, we wanted to start from there and we started from like my first freestyling, like, went viral, BROOKLYN (Chiraq Freestyle), you know what I mean? When Facebook was like one of the hottest things ever, at the time, like Instagram was still hot. Cool. Instagram was hot but like, Facebook was one of the places where you want to go viral before you went viral on Instagram. Before... I came from them. I mean, SoundCloud, before there was SoundCloud rappers, I was on SoundCloud, you know what I mean? So like, we really wanted to bring that world into, like, just my supporters and my fan base. So it's really not too much about trying to sell this. It's more so about trying to give back to my supporters. In a way now that I understand that NF T is a way of them making money by just putting one investment into me, after like years of investment you will put into me, this is your way of making money, just like that? Come on, man. You know, I mean, like of course, I'm gonna jump into that. But of course, I still need to know more detail into it or whatever the case. So as time goes on, we come up with the details, we like, let's pinpoint the biggest times on your career. Chiraq Freestyle go viral. Boom. Years later, everybody knows, a lot of being on all these like big radio stations. Hot 97. after that and we went viral. On this... She started doing shows in Connecticut and Tri-state areas. You know what I mean? Like, I'm starting to do these type of things. Now my come up is coming up. Now OOOUUU come out, boom, because they like we need a club record. Boom, come with them. Exactly. I gotcha, you know what I mean? Like boom, OOOUUU, come out. Now that's became the biggest break now. Now, I'm crossing other into the industry. Another, you know, milestone in my career. We go from that, boom. And now we go into Petty Wap. It is a lot. So like, that's basically the timeline. Like there's so much that I did in between each time that could really count. But it's like, when you pinpoint, like, literally, like, the bowstones of everything. So like, that's what the NFT is really about, it was creating and like, like, you know, the longevity and what could create from each individual situation that you might not never know, that might develop as you go, you know what I mean? So that's what I feel like my NFT should be about. I don't know what everybody else is doing and shit about. Like, I heard about the research, I heard about, you know, people's, like, unreleased stuff. Of course, like I do unreleased music, or unreleased merch or unreleased things and shit like that. Of course, you get the exclusive. But to me, like, my NFTs, they have to, like gravitate to something close to me. It made my supporters understand that it's still me. It's not about just, yeah, having new stuff that nobody got. No, it's still connecting with you all. At the end of the day, I look at this. I don't know, I don't look at this for money. Like, I don't know, I don't know where people mine that or whatever. As humans, whatever the case, and they only be... But like me, as a artists. I always had this mindset. I treat my supporters as my family, for, like, this my way of, like, giving back. It's like me getting a platinum plaque. And seeing that I went platinum again. Like just, like it just, like I feel so good about just having that platinum plaque as another accomplishment. There's no one that I'm doing what I'm doing. So like for them to have something valuable, 250 out of millions, billions, and trillions of people in this world. You got that? Like, that's what matters to me. I don't know about that money stuff, bro. Okay, so that's what I'm trying to say.Dan Runcie 08:51Yeah. Was it tough to limit the amount because it's only 250 people for each of the drops, and you got a lot of...Young M.A 08:52Exactly. Dan Runcie 08:54...Young M.A fans out there. Was it tough to limit it?Young M.A 08:59Yeah, that's basically the case. Like, I'm still trying to figure it out. Like once it dropped and I see like how things go about, I just want to see the reaction. Like, I'm not even looking into like, like, I know the money aspects of things. And if you want to talk money, but, like, my benefit from it is more so like seeing what they value from it, you know what I mean? Like...Dan Runcie 09:20Yeah, let's talk the money piece of it first, just to get that out of the way. So you got 250 of volume. And of course, the goal is to sell out, how much are they? And are they different prices for each of the five different ones? Young M.A 09:29No, they're $20. Dan Runcie 09:31And see that's important because I think most people that do drops like this, if you only have a limited amount, they think it's going to be thousands of dollars, right? But you're like, so essentially it's like a first come first whoever gets it first, right? Young M.A 09:42Yeah, $20, $20. I feel like, you know, like my supporters. If you could buy merch, I mean my merch is more $20, oh there you go. If my merch is, like, more than $20, or you could buy a ticket to come see me, my whole package, meet and greets, all that, it should be like a bucket of change. If you can spend $20 just have an NFT of me and make money off it, like, I don't know what to say, you know, like, I'm not a... I just feel like, you know, like, we take risks, we take risks.Dan Runcie 10:08Do you feel like this was a big risk for you though? Because I feel like it's a slam dunk. I mean, you know that you got the fans that are going to want it. Young M.A 10:14Yeah, I mean, I don't look at it like a slam dunk, though. I don't know why. And that's just me being honest. I don't know why, like, I don't know, if it's just not in my heart to like, I don't really look at money value. I don't know. There's just something, I don't know. It's just something in my heart that just never been that person. Like, of course, I'm going to make money. Yes, I had to make money to survive. But my intent into going into things be more deeper than people ever think. Like, I really think deeper into things, like I have to understand. Because if I don't understand something 100%, like, what this NFT, I'm gonna keep it G. I don't know 100% about it. I do know enough. But I don't know 100%. And when I don't know, 100%+, about something. I'm not going to never put my trust into it. 100%. I'm going put my trust into how much I understand. So my trust is how much I understand per say, right? You know what I mean? And I just want to see how my supporters feel and what's gonna make them happy. If it ain't making them happy, I want to do it. And that's real, bro.Dan Runcie 11:13Oh, yeah. And I think the good thing with it, too, you have other exclusive perks lined up. If someone collects all five of them, then you invite them to certain things, and you know fans are always going to appreciate that. And I feel like this also taps into how you run your game in the industry from since you've been in this, you know, because you were always more about longevity. You were always more about the money. That is how you approach any deal that came through or you weren't trying to approach it with a bag. It wasn't about the bag, it had to be more than that.Young M.A 11:4…

    Full show notes at the publisher

    How Fanbase Raised $6 Million Without VC with Isaac Hayes III Apr 22, 2022
    Show notes

    In less than three years, the Fanbase social content app has raised six million dollars (without traditional venture capital) and is inching toward the one-million user mark. How did co-founder Issac Hayes III take the app from nothing all the way to this? If you ask him, his life spent in the cut-throat music industry gave him the inspiration AND business chops to thrive within the tech space. As the son of legendary R&B artist Isaac Hayes, he was made well aware from the get-go of the exploitative practices by record labels toward musicians. Isaac would go on to notice similar exploitation with social media giants and their users, who were creating content and driving attention, but reaping little of the billions of dollars in revenues being reported by the same corporations.Fanbase is changing those optics. On the app, users can post content — written, photo, video, audio chat, and live stream — for a subscription fee. As Isaac sees it, “monetization for every user is the wave of the future.” For a full glimpse of how Isaac is building Fanbase into a disruptive social media force, you’ll want to tune into our interview. Here’s what we covered in the episode:[4:10] Fanbase Raised $6 Million From Crowdfunding — Not Venture Capital[6:34] The Most Important Investors Of Fanbase [8:10] Making Investing More Accessible[10:30] How Fanbase Is Acquiring New Customers[11:59] Fanbase’s Biggest Business Advantage (Not What You Think)[14:13] “Monetization For Every User Is The Wave Of The Future”[16:18] Why Artists Shouldn’t Sell Their Catalogs[22:23] What Isaac Loves About Technology[23:40] What Does Fanbase’s Future Fundraising Timeline Look Like?[26:38] Size Of Fanbase’s Team Now & In Near-Future[27:51] Atlanta’s Underrated Scene Outside Hip-Hp[30:39] Isaac’s Influence For Creating Fanbase[32:34] Getting The Music Rights Back For His Dad[33:48] Keeping Black Icons Relevant Post-Death[36:14] Will There Ever Be An Isaac Hayes Movie?[41:45] Fanbase’s New FeaturesListen: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | SoundCloud | Stitcher | Overcast | Amazon | Google Podcasts | Pocket Casts | RSSHost: Dan Runcie, @RuncieDan, trapital.coGuests: Isaac Hayes III, @isaachayes3 Trapital is home for the business of hip-hop. Gain the latest insights from hip-hop’s biggest players by reading Trapital’s free weekly memo. _______________TranscriptionIsaac Hayes III 00:00I think monetization for every user is the wave of the future. I keep saying it, I think that there isn't a person right now that isn't subscribed to at least one thing. And one subscription becomes more and more the common vernacular of how we engage with content. Social media is the last, you know, frontier that's left. You know, when you think about TV and film with Hulu, and Netflix, and Disney+, and music with Spotify and Apple Music, and print media with Forbes, and The New York Times, and Billboard, and then productivity software like Adobe Premiere Pro, Microsoft Word. Like, you don't... You're subscribed to something. You're probably subscribed to an app on your phone that allows you to edit your photos. And so subscriptions are just the language. And so I think that's going to be the language of the future moving forward.Dan Runcie 00:53Hey, welcome to the Trapital podcast. I'm your host and the founder of Trapital, Dan Runcie. This podcast is your place to gain insights from executives in music, media, entertainment, and more, who are taking hip hop culture to the next level. Today's guest is Isaac Hayes III. He's the founder and CEO of Fanbase. Fanbase is a company that helps creators better monetize the content they put out. And on Fanbase's platform, followers can subscribe for $3.99 a month to get all of the exclusive content from their favorite creators, or they can follow creators and they can spread love. Love is the primary form of engagement on Fanbase, and it's how creators monetize. The more likes and love they get, the more revenue that they get into their pockets. So Fanbase addresses a lot of the challenges that people have had about social media more broadly. And in this chat, Isaac and I talk about what the journey has been like. He's been able to raise $6 million through crowdfunding. He did it through this platform called StartEngine, and he's had many well-known investors on board, folks like Snoop Dogg, Charlamagne The God, Kandi Burruss, Chamillionaire, Roland Martin, and more. So we talked about his decision to go that path as opposed to the traditional VC route. Isaac and I also talked about the trend of music publishing and the catalog sales that have been happening, and why he actually thinks that a lot of musicians should not be selling their catalogs. He is not the only person to say this, but these voices have been a little bit quieter in this narrative. So it was great to hear his perspective on this. And then we also talked about the other hat that Isaac wears. He is the manager of his late father's estate. His father is the legendary singer, Isaac Hayes. So we talked about what that experience has been like managing the estate, and how his father's experience in the music industry had formed a lot of the work that Isaac Hayes III himself wants to create and the opportunities he wants to do through Fanbase. We also talked about what an Isaac Hayes biopic would look like, and who Isaac Hayes III would want to play his father in a movie. I think he had a pretty good answer. I'm a big fan of this person. So I think you'll enjoy who we said. We also talked about Atlanta's impact, and just how influential that city has been in culture and for Fanbase as well, we had a great conversation, and I hope you enjoy this as much as I did. Here's my chat with Isaac Hayes III. All right, today, we got Isaac Hayes III with us. He's the co-founder and CEO of Fanbase, an app that helps creators monetize the content that they put out into the world and get what's there. So Isaac, thank you for joining. And it'd be great to just hear from you how things were going with you and how things been going with Fanbase. What's the latest been?Isaac Hayes III 03:46Man, we just closed our second seed round of $2.6 million on StartEngine. So we've raised a total of $6 million in less than a year. It's been phenomenal. We're adding a lot of amazing functionality to Fanbase. And new features are rolling out in the next couple of weeks, a new version of audio, which is one of our flagship features on the platform that's monetized for all users. So it's an exciting time at Fanbase.Dan Runcie 04:10Can you talk to me about your fundraising process a bit because I know that you crowdfunded the 6 billion. You were able to do it at a few different stages. But what made you go that route, as opposed to the more traditional venture capital fundraising?Isaac Hayes III 04:25Two things: one was just a recommendation by a really good mentor of mine to do so. And it was in COVID, because, you know, we couldn't move. And I had a real kind of like off-putting conversation with a VC. And it immediately reminded me of the music business. And so in my mind, I immediately thought, okay, these seeds are like the label. And I'm like an artist trying to get a record deal. And so starting to gave me the opportunity to go independent, and sell my shares out of the trunk of my car to the tune of $6 million, which gives us better leverage, and lets people know that we don't need venture capital to raise serious cash. And so that's really how it, you know, wind up that being that way.Dan Runcie 05:06Yeah, I heard the comparisons from a lot of people. And I think that the thing you often hear from folks that do crowdfund is that it can take a lot of time to get there. But at least from what I've seen from your process, you were able to get several thousand investors in a pretty short amount of time. So what were the steps from that perspective to keep the momentum hot, and to make sure that you had a strong pipeline?Isaac Hayes III 05:29I think the best thing is, when you're, I think the biggest benefit was the fact that it's a product that the investors can actually use in real time. So it's not like they're giving to something, and they're investing in something and not knowing what the product will be or what it does. They're a part of it in real time. And it's something that's relatable to them. If I go and invest in a tech startup that does something to do with aerospace engines, cool, when I'm not with it every day. I just sit back and hope that they make the best decision possible with my investment. But Fanbase is something that I think is more personal to people because of where we are social media. So I think that gave it a lot of energy, because people are a part of the process, and they feel part of the platform and part of this journey together in real time. So it's something that you can use, you know, and then who better, I got to say, to give actual equity in a social media startup into the users themselves that will actually make the platform grow. Dan Runcie 06:20And I think you're able to find some influential folks with that too, right? You got Kandi Burruss, you got Charlamagne. And of course with their platforms, they're able to help amplify and can connect you with other investors or just other creators, given what they've done.Isaac Hayes III 06:34Yeah, but we honestly haven't used them in that fashion. And I actually don't typically want them or to do that particularly yet. And the reason being is because I like the fact that they are silent in their action, because a lot of times when people of notoriety step out in a space where they're invested in a platform and may turn other people off, that feel like well, I didn't get that opportunity. And in social media, it's more about the users. The most important investors on Fanbase, and we have some really big, big name investors, the most important investors on Fanbase are the actual users, the larger, broader, probably a sea of 8000 plus individuals that have put their money in and actually use the platform on a day-today basis, who will be those day-to-day, you know, hardcore super users. But relationships and those investors that are of a high stature like a Snoop Dogg and stuff like that, their time will come later. They all, I know, they all know exactly when they're going to get on and when they're going to turn the engine up on the platform. So we're just, you know, we're focused on the core audience and the core investors of the platform being what we really focus on at Fanbase.Dan Runcie 07:41And with 8000 investors, you mentioned $6 million raised, it makes it pretty affordable to, you know, for people to be able to have a stake, because I think that's one of the challenges that you often see from institutional money that comes through or some of the minimum buy-ins for some investments is that it isn't always the most accessible for folks that may be interested. So I think you're able to at least allow that to happen given the amount of people that were able to invest for the total amount you have.Isaac Hayes III 08:10Absolutely, I mean, the accredited investor rule has kind of been a barrier for all people, you know. I don't care what race you are, if it's a law that's been in effect since 1933, it's just only given opportunities to rich people to actually invest in early stage companies. So you're coming out of the Great Depression, if you ever wonder why none of your family members got a call to invest in IBM, or Microsoft, or Apple, or Facebook, and so on and so forth. It's this accredited investor rule that is given all the best opportunities of wealth to the wealthy. And so I love the fact that Barack Obama and Joe Biden pass the Jobs Act and allow people like myself to go to my peers and the public to actually have the same opportunity that VCs and accredited investors have to get a piece of the American dream by investing the same way that all these other people have been able to do for 83 years.Dan Runcie 09:01I think we're gonna see the rules continue to break down on that. I know now they have that flexible option where I think if you take the Series 63 or 7 or one of those tests, then you can become accredited. So that's one way to pass the income thresholds. But I feel like even that is probably going to break down at some point. That just feels like where everything is at it.Isaac Hayes III 09:22It should. I mean, one of the seed investors in Uber, a guy by the name of Oren Michels only invested $5,000 into Uber, but when it IPO in 2019 is 5000 was worth 24 million. And I'm like, well, how come we can go to Vegas and spend $5,000 on the crap table or go buy $5,000 worth of lottery tickets, but I can't invest in Uber. And I think that's the real crime is that, you know, it's okay that if you go blow your money gambling in that fashion, but not gambling in in the fashion of investing your money in a startup like Uber, which wound up being very, very successful, so the rules have to change and platforms like StartEngine are breaking down those barriers.Dan Runcie 9:59Right, especially when so many other people using it and giving these startups their early validation are the ones that believe and see in the future. So I feel like those dots got to connect eventually. But...Isaac Hayes III 10:10It will for sure.Dan Runcie 10:11Going back to Fanbase itself and how things are, I read that you have a goal be able to hit a million users in June. And it would be great to hear what your strategy has been in terms of acquiring customers. What's been the most effective thing that you've done to get more creators and users onto the platform?Isaac Hayes III 10:30I think the biggest thing is actually just word of mouth, right? It's the quality of the product. And then I think we're in a very unique time, a very opportunistic time for platforms like Fanbase to emerge, because of this transition from users wanting more access to their following, they're getting tired of words like shadowbanning and content suppression and stuff like that. And algorithms are becoming the enemy of the common user on the platform, or even the super user on the platform, because platforms typically are profitable off ad revenue. And so for that to happen, you can't simultaneously provide visibility for every user on the platform, and then run ads at the same time. That's counterproductive to the business model. Because if that's the case, then the people that buy ads would just go to the users themselves and run ads that way. And then you would have no business model. And so Fanbase is just you know, emerging at a time right now that I think the conversation is different. And ad based, ad-based revenue social media platforms are going to continue to change that puts us right, at the right time to continue to grow. So word of mouth. And then timing is just helping us, and then we have an amazing creative advisory board of young people. There's some other strategic partnerships, and I'm really excited to begin working on that, they’re really rooted in community and rooted in the culture of what we want on Fanbase, which is young, centennial people of all races, ages, backgrounds, creating content and monetize.Dan Runcie 11:56What are some of those partnerships? Anything you can share with us?Isaac Hayes III 11:59No, because... And the reason why I can't is because they're really savvy in the way there's things that I think, social media startups, I'll say this, like, I think Fanbase has the best advantag…

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    The Future Of Music Business With Economist Will Page Apr 15, 2022
    Show notes

    One of the most unique insights into the state of the music business today doesn’t come from a record label exec. Not from an agent. Not from an artist. No, it comes from Scottish economist Will Page, who served that role for Spotify from 2012 to 2019 — a period of explosive growth for the streaming giant. But if you ask Page about streaming’s future, he’s not nearly as optimistic as the rest of the industry. “The party has to come to an end,” as he told me on this episode of Trapital.Page believes the music industry is transitioning from a “herbivore market” to a “carnivore” one. In other words, future growth will not come from brand-new customers — it’ll come from the streaming services eating into each other’s market share. Not only has subscriber counts possibly tapped out in Page’s opinion, but streaming services have also put a ceiling on revenues by charging only $9.99, a price that hasn’t budged in 20 years despite giant leaps in technology and music catalog size. That against-the-grain prediction was one of many Will shared with me during our in-depth interview. But he has plenty more research- and experience-backed thoughts on touring, vinyl records, Web 3.0, and everything in between. Believe me, this is an interview you don’t want to miss. Here’s everything we covered: [0:00] The 3 R’s in the business of music[3:15] Will’s experience being a DJ[7:10] Lopsided Growth Of Music Streaming In Global Markets[8:59] Vinyl Records $1.5 Billion Recovery [13:18] Will’s Bearish View About The Future Of Streaming[15:22] Ongoing Price War Between Streaming Services[22:59] The Changing Economics Of Music Touring [26:16] Performing At Festivals Vs. Tours [30:50] The Evolution Of Music Publishing[34:32] How Music Revenue Gets Distributed To Publishers[37:35] What Does A “Post-Spotify Economy” Look Like? [40:00] Will’s Biggest Issues With Web3 [47:01] The Current Business Landscape Of Hip-Hop Listen to Will’s mix right here: https://www.mixcloud.com/willpagesnc/we-aint-done-with-2021/Check out Will’s Podcast, Bubble Trouble, where he breaks down how financial markets really work.Read Will’s book, Tarzan Economics: Eight Principles for Pivoting Through Disruption.Listen: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | SoundCloud | Stitcher | Overcast | Amazon | Google Podcasts | Pocket Casts | RSSHost: Dan Runcie, @RuncieDan, trapital.coGuests: Will Page, @willpageauthor Trapital is home for the business of hip-hop. Gain the latest insights from hip-hop’s biggest players by reading Trapital’s free weekly memo. _____TRANSCRIPT Will Page 00:00The best way I could do this is, I just talk about ratios. There are three R's in this business, there's share of revenue, there's ratio, and as rates pool, they mean different things. Most experts get confused with the three R's.I'm gonna stick to ratios that is, if I give the label $1, how much do I give the publisher, the software, there's collective management organization? So we stick to the conventional streaming model today, I would say that you get the record label $1, you're giving the publishing side of the fence 24 cents, you know, a decent chunk of change, but still the poorer cousin of the record label. On YouTube, I think it could be as high as 35 cents, 40 cents even because there's a sink right involved in those deals.Dan Runcie 00:46Hey, welcome to the Trapital Podcast. I'm your host and the founder of Trapital, Dan Runcie. This podcast is your place to gain insights from executives in music, media, entertainment, and more, who are taking hip hop culture to the next level. Today's guest is Will Page. He is the author of a book I cannot recommend enough. It's called Tarzan Economics. It's a guide to pivoting through disruption. This is a must-read if you're working in music, media, or entertainment. He is also a Visiting Fellow at the London School of Economics. He is the former Chief Economist at Spotify. So if you are interested in where the music industry is heading, where trends are going, this is the person to talk to. I was first put onto Will’s work, he had released this white paper called Rockonomics. And it was a breakdown on how artists were using Twitch. I wrote about the report in Trapital because I was fascinated by it. And then he and I started talking from there. So it was only a matter of time before he came on the podcast. Will and I covered a bunch in this episode, we talked about the growth of streaming, we also talked about the growth of vinyl, and how that impacts the economics for a lot of artists and songwriters and publishers. We also talked about the price of streaming services. Most services are still $9.99 per month in the US. So we talked about why that is for music compared to video streaming, where Netflix Hulu, and Amazon have been increasing their prices for their respective services. We also talked about music publishing and why Will thinks that that catalog will continue to grow. We talked about live music and some of the potential constraints where now the next 24 months everyone wants to go on tour. But there's only so many venues and so much money that consumers have unwillingness to see live shows. So we've talked about that we talked about trends in hip hop, we'll have a bunch of exclusive numbers to share in this. And it was great to talk to him. It's been great to also Jessica T to learn from him. I honestly do believe that he's one of the sharpest minds in the music industry. And it was a pleasure to have him on this podcast. And I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did. Here's my chat with Will Page. Alright, today we got the one and only Will Page with us. He is well known in the music and media space as an economist, but he also spent a lot of time as a DJ. And I feel like that could be a good place for us to start the conversation. Will, talk to me about your DJ experience and what you've been doing there recently.Will Page 03:22Well, I've been DJing since the age of puberty. And it was all inspired by one lyric by a rapper called Mike G from The Jungle Brothers from an album called done by the forces of nature, where he dropped his library. He said it's about getting the music across the message across getting it across without crossing over. And unlike a 14-year-old kid when I hear this, and I just thought about those words, getting the music across without crossing over, how do you get out to an audience without diluting its integrity. I'm only 14 at the time. But that just resonated with me so strongly, and I just kind of dedicated a huge chunk of my life to trying to get the music across to an audience that would otherwise not have heard it. And I'm not diluting how it's been presented. That's what a DJ can do. You can thread songs together in a way that gets music across without its dilution without crossing it over.Dan Runcie 04:11And I feel like, for you, you've been able to carry that through, you had we're not done we are done with 2021 I was able to do a quick drop for that as well. So I think what's likely inspiring for a lot of folks is that there's so many people that have music backgrounds and passions early on, but there's a pause if they're not able to continue that but you've been able to keep this as part of your charity, which I think makes so much of what you do with this space authentic because you yourself are someone who releases music.Will Page 04:40Yeah, I mean, the mix cloud allowed me to scale what I was doing anyway, if I go back to university in the late 90s early noughties you'd make mixtapes mix cassettes. There's a great way to date girls, but you could only do maybe like 50 100 at tops. Mix cloud allows you to take what you do and scale it scale what you love to do and the mixer UK only gave us a drop for weighing in dama 2021. That makes us no-hit 27,000 on Mixcloud meaning have overtaken Erykah Badu one of your former guests, I believe. So, you know, to get to 20,000 unique people with a mix that you care a year crafting together, that means the world to me.Dan Runcie 05:15It's a lot. And that's powerful, too. I imagined that you're always not just finding the sounds that make the most vibe for the year. But you're also thinking about, okay, what is the way that things are moving, especially at the pandemic? I feel like it's such an interesting year to have something like that. Because I think for some people, it's a year that they want to remember a year, they don't want to remember as well. But I feel like you probably already have a few things lined up for the mix you'll do at the end of 2022.Will Page 05:45Yeah, I mean, you're always looking for the bands that are not on Spotify, not an Apple Music, I think about half of my mix this year, you will not find in a streaming service. And I'm proud of that you're going to Discogs to find those rare white label bootleg vinyls, you're going to the source to the artists who are in the studio recording. And to you know, profile bands like Sault, or London-based bands, S-A-U-L-T, on that mix. That meant the world because I've been watching them rise over the past few years now. And, you know, to this day, nobody has any idea what the band look like, who the band are made up of, you know, this, like punk music, they're rejecting the system, they're doing it completely separately. And they're, you know, not hitting millions of people on Spotify with their music, they've let the music do the talking. So I often think about mixed culture as a break it down this way, the internet can scale just about anything, but it can't scale intimacy, and a playlist or as an intimate, that's just a bunch of songs straddle together and work them through the shuffle play feature, but a mix, a DJ mix of 60 minutes seamless mix, where you have vocal drops, you have beat mixing, you have layering, all those techniques that you've honed over the years, that's intimate. So what I'm able to do with mixtape culture is to scale intimacy, and that goes out for every other DJ you've had on your show. That's what we're trying to do right.Dan Runcie 07:05For sure. And I feel like that's a good segue to chat a little bit more about some of the work you've done for a company that is very heavily focused on playlists, which is Spotify. And I think more broadly, looking at the streaming ever we're in right now, this is a great time to chat because we just saw the IFP results. And streaming is continuing to grow, as we've seen, but I feel like you've probably spotted a few interesting trends about where things are heading. And I think that's a question of art for a lot of people streaming continues to grow, but how far can it grow? What are we seeing in terms of differences within genres or regions? What are some of the things that stuck out to you?Will Page 07:43I'll give you a couple. The first one is the global business. Well, last time I looked at the United Nations, I think there's 208 countries in the world, the global yearbook that we're discussing here, has I think, 58. So we have to be careful what we define as global. I think Africa's clubbed together as one continent with a need to work on that. But I think the global business is growing, but it's also becoming more American. So if you go back to when Spotify launched, Americans made up 20 to 23% of the business round, about just over a fifth today, it's 37%. So we have seen the business grow and become more American. And that raises questions, economic questions, like globalization questions, should poor countries catch up with rich ones, a theory says yes, the reality often says no, so we're seeing this kind of lopsided growth where the business is growing, but it's growing in favor of an American market, the biggest country is growing at the fastest rates. That's a positive problem, but I just want to flag it, which is that's not how it was supposed to play out. And then the second thing I'd want to point to as well as just vinyl, this vinyl recovery is just Well, I don't know how much my bank balance is responsible for this vinyl recovery. But I'm telling you, is defying the laws of gravity. Now we're now looking at Vinyl being worth one and a half-billion dollars, which is more than it's been worth in the past 30 years. It's worth more than CDs, cassettes, and downloads the three formats that were supposed to declare that vinyl is dead, but there's two things you can kind of cut out the vinyl recovery, which I think will be of real interest to your audience. Firstly, on the consumer side, I saw a survey which suggested that the majority just over half of all vinyl buyers today don't own a record player. I mean, something's cooking here. So why are we buying it for now I'll extend that as well. The cost of wall frames to frame vinyl on your wall often costs more than the record itself. So I'm willing to pay more for vinyl to be called New framed on my wall than I am for the record. And by the way, I don't have a record player that a lot of people will take those bizarre boxes, but on the creator side, something else is interesting. It'll take a little bit of working through but if we think about the streaming model is monetizing consumption, that's what it does. So there's an album A 10 songs, three killer and seven filler songs and an album Let's say Dan runs, he wrote the three killer tracks, and we'll page the seven Duff filler tracks. On streaming, Dan might walk away with all the money, and I'll walk away with none. Because we're only streaming the killer tracks and nobody's touching the filler. As the album model kicks out from vinyl, I would get 70% of the cache. That's crazy because nobody knows what's being consumed. And it's a lot of cash by just kind of do some rough math, you have a million fans streaming your hip hop record on Spotify. And let's say they're streaming it 200 times in the month when the album drops, you only need 20,000 of them of that million to make the same amount of money from vinyl than you would do from streams, which is entirely plausible. But then how do you pay the copyright owners from those songs on an album is very different from how you pay them on a stream. If you go back to the late 70s. The one most successful records of all time was Saturday Night Fever, the BGS, and a bunch of other people. It's crazy to think that Ralph McDonald's Calypso struck his record there, which nobody has listened to, but the same royalty as staying alive by the BGS. Because it was a vinyl record. So to reiterate, on the consumer side, I don't know how many of these vinyl records are being played. And on the creative side, it raises questions about how these creators are going to get paid.Dan Runcie 11:16That's a good point. But that I don't think is being talked about as much about the vinyl search, because there's so much like wow, about just how much has been purchased. I think I haven't saw the stat that Adele's 30 albums sold 8000 cassettes or there’s a self-titled stat about that. And I think the similar thing that you said lines up, I think those people actually still own a Walkman or whatever type of cassette player that they have. So I do think that that is something that probably there could be a deeper analysis on. Because a lot of the people that write the filler songs, how do they feel whether you're a songwriter, whether you know what's behind it, especially when you know that there's so much clearer path to be able to…

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    Audiomack CMO Dave Ponte’s Plan to Grow the Pie for Artists Apr 08, 2022
    Show notes

    It’s been ten years since Dave Ponte co-founded Audiomack alongside Dave Macli. The decade has been strong in international growth for the music streaming platform — Audiomack recently became Nigeria’s number-one overall iOS app in a given week — but if Ponte has it his way, Audiomack will next become THE “home base” for artists, a place to begin their entire musical journey. The platform has rolled out numerous features to support those lofty ambitions, plus has several others in the works. One of the features that is live is the Supporters monetization tool. Launched in December, the tool allows fans to directly pay artists in exchange for a “badge” that memorializes their name in their profile and that of the supported artists. In the four months of being live on-site, Supporters has created $30,000 in new revenue for artists on Audiomack. As Dave told us in the episode, unlike competing streaming services, Audiomack is concerned with increasing the “size of the pie” for the entire music industry — not merely finding additional ways to ”slice the pie.”Dave and I spoke at length about artist monetization — and how Web 3.0 possibly fits into the equation — throughout the episode. Here’s everything else we covered: [0:00 Big Start To 2022 For Audiomack[0:55] Evaluating Audiomack’s Supporters’ Monetization Tool Post-Launch[3:38] Updating The Supporters’ Product Over Time[6:47] $30,000 Created For Artists (So Far) With Supporters Tool [10:25] Artist Campaigns On Audiomack[14:28] Audiomack’s Newly-Launched Creator App [17:50] Mobile App “Stickiness” [20:23] Audiomack’s “Home Base” Aspirations[24:05] Artist Resource Guide On Audiomack[27:52] How Brian Zisook’s Twitter Threads Influenced Artist Guide [30:20] Different Dynamic Between Audiomack & Other Platforms[32:55] Audiomack’s Biggest Challenges [38:42] How Does Web 3.0 Factor Into Audiomack’s Future?[46:26] Audiomack Motivated To Bring AfroBeats To AmericaTo listen to more Audiomack Trapital episodes, check out the two below:Audiomack Co-Founder & CEO Dave Macli: https://trapital.co/2020/11/16/dave-macli-on-audiomacks-role-in-music-streaming-partnership-with-djbooth-and-global-expansion/Audiomack VP of Product Charlie Kaplan: https://trapital.co/2021/12/10/charlie-kaplan-on-audiomack-supporters-artist-fan-monetization-and-streaming-business-models/Listen: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | SoundCloud | Stitcher | Overcast | Amazon | Google Podcasts | Pocket Casts | RSSHost: Dan Runcie, @RuncieDan, trapital.coGuests: Dave PonteTrapital is home for the business of hip-hop. Gain the latest insights from hip-hop’s biggest players by reading Trapital’s free weekly memo. ________TRANSCRIPTIONDavid Ponte 00:00We cultivated all this. We aggregated all this. And now we're providing all of this for free. We're not charging anyone for it. If you go on the Audiomack app, you'll be able to access them. And you'll be able to learn and find out the answers to these questions because, frankly, I didn't even know a lot of these answers. I mean, there's so much to learn in the music industry. And you know, I know some things but there's a lot of things that I don't know. And I’ve, when going through this guide, learned a lot. And it can be one small decision that an artist would make, that can make a huge impact on their career in their life.Dan Runcie 00:39Hey, welcome to the Trapital podcast. I'm your host and the founder of Trapital, Dan Runcie. This podcast is your place to gain insights from executives in music, media, entertainment, and more, who are taking hip hop culture to the next level. Today's guest is Dave Ponte. The Chief Marketing Officer and co-founder of Audiomack. Audiomack is a music streaming platform and a music discovery service that reaches more than 20 million people across the world. It was great to chat with Dave because a few months back, I had talked to Charlie Kaplan fromAudiomack. This is when they first launched their platform, Supporters. Supporters is a tool that brings artists and fans more directly together where fans can directly contribute to a release of an artist give money to the artist for that, have their name be associated with that, and be able to show that badge through the Audiomack platform. We talked about the rollout of that we talked about how that fits more broadly, with Audiomack strategy to be a home base for artists and how it's doing that also through its creator app, through its artist's guide, and a few of the other things it has planned. And that pivots us into a discussion about how Audiomack’s strategy fits within the broader music ecosystem in the broader streaming service. There are much bigger streaming services, but many of them are still copying a lot of the moves that Audiomack has done. So we talked about what that dynamic is where Audiomack is growing most right now and how this company is thinking about the future. And when you think about web3, when you think about all these other things, how much of this is an actual opportunity, how many of these things are buzzwords or just fluff, Dave and I get into all that. I had a great conversation with him. Here's my chat with Dave Ponte. All right, today, we got Dave Ponte here from Audiomack, and I got to give him credit, the company has been having a pretty good run lately. They launched some new platforms, they've been growing internationally. Dave, we got to get the latest on how things have been going on your end?David Ponte 02:50Things have been going great. We're really happy about how 2022 is shaping up. And we have a lot of great new features and platforms and apps and other things that are going to help artists, you know, improve their careers and move music forward.Dan Runcie 03:06Definitely. Yeah, I think it was a couple of months back, I feel like that, we're making the rounds because I had had Dave Macli about a year ago or so, had Zeon after that, and had Charlie Kaplan on most recently. And we talked all about Supporters. And I feel like this is a pretty big launch for you all when Charlie came on, we were just talking about the launch and the goals of having something where artists and fans can connect more directly in just bridging that line together. And now you have at least a few months of it to see how things have been going. So how has that been so far? How is Supporters?David Ponte 03:42I'm really happy with how it's launched. The product has worked really well. There hasn't been any when you're developing software, and you're adding a new feature like this, which is a completely different way that we would approach typically how our app would work. You know, we're a streaming platform, you know, you could play songs, you could follow artists, you could do all the things that you would do in a streaming platform, but now we're adding this e-commerce functionality. So it's a new foray for us. And it's gone off really, very smoothly. All the artists' supporters have been able to buy badges, it's all the finance and reconciliation portion has worked out very well, and the artists are really happy about this additional revenue stream that they can now employ.Dan Runcie 04:24Nice. I got to imagine for a lot of the artists, it brings them closer because that's one of the reasons that they're likely building on Audiomack as opposed to elsewhere. I feel like one of the pitches that you all have had from the beginning is that – A. you're going to have artists that are much more in control of what they're doing from how they're building their brand on your platform. And then I think, in addition, you're not necessarily always working with the artists who are more bound by a major record label or another entity. So by being able to have what I imagined a lot of independent artists using this tool and bring it up to you whether that is the through-line there, and of course, we're seeing so much happening with platforms in all different types of technologies trying to bring folks together, but I think you are able to do it in a way that is seamless, and it's visible because I think at the end of the day, people do want to be able to show off their fandom, and who they support.David Ponte 05:19Yes, one thing that, you know, I talked to Charlie, you know, who was one of the main architects of this feature, and he was a guest on your podcast, I recommend everyone had to listen to him if you listen to this now. But he told me I was very, he's a very eloquent guy. And what he told me and I thought it was a good way to look about it is, this is the first hour of the new year with this supporters product, there's so many different things that we want to add, and that we're in the midst of adding when I wanted to share a couple of those on your podcast. And, and, you know, we always had this challenge, Dave Mackley and I write what your things are never going to be perfect. When you release a new product, a new part of our product, a new app, you're never going to release it. So you have to just eventually push it out, let the people experience it, consider their feedback, and then work that into future iterations. So that's what we're doing here. There's a lot of new things we want to add. And we want to revise. And, you know, I'm not just gonna sit here and tell you everything's perfect, right? That would be boring, number one. But number two, it's not reality, especially with when you're dealing with app development. So one of the things we realized was the price of the supporters' badge, overall, I think was too high. So about a month into the program, we actually reduced the prices, the cost of the badge. So now, you know, you could buy a badge for $1 instead of $2 US and obviously changes depending on where you are, I don't think we're a global app, we're really big in Africa, particularly West Africa, and Nigeria have gone up. And once we lowered the price for the lowest cost badge from two to $1, we saw a lot more people buying badges and supporting those artists, we actually ended up creating more revenue for the artist with this small but impactful change. And we don't want, you know, the whole concept Audiomack has to have a low barrier to entry, whether an artist or whether you're a fan, you know, Audiomack is a free app, you could download, begin, take music offline for free, no matter where you are in the world. And if you're an artist, you could have unlimited space to upload your music, you have unlimited opportunities to look at the data, glean insights from how people are consuming your art. And now they can support you directly by buying a badge, a Supports badge. So that was one small but big, really big change, impactful change that we saw, and we made about four weeks into the launch of the product.Dan Runcie 07:41So I think that's a key point. Because I think a lot of people from the outside may look at the price sensitivity of $2 to $1 and may not think it's much but that's what we're seeing in you know, the Western world and being able to think about that relative to the price of a streaming service increasing or anything like that. But you're obviously global, and you're growing in places where that difference makes a lot more or that difference is much more meaningful. So do you have any stats or any, how that difference is from a quantitative perspective of how much of an increase or usage rate you saw from lowering the price from two to one?David Ponte 08:17Well, I don't know if I have that stat, particularly I wish I did. But we have more badges sold. I think once I did have my team collect was just the amount of money that we've made for artists since launch and that's 30,000 over $30,000. And that's a good point. We had that mindset. Obviously, we're a New York company, we're Americans. And we know it's hard for us to think about how what it might be like for someone in Nigeria or someone in Tanzania, for example. But we eventually figured it out. We got feedback from a lot of our ambassadors on our team out there. And I think the way probably to think about it is the streaming rate, right? So you know, you make a certain amount per stream on Spotify, title, Apple Music, SoundCloud, Youtube, Audiomack. And we're an ad-supported platform, right? So the majority of people who consume music on Audiomack do it for free. As I mentioned, we make money on ads, though the revenue from those ads pays the artists. So what we thought of is how can we increase the size of the pie? As opposed to how can we create more and more slices of that pie to split around, right? So if you look at some of the other streaming platforms, you know, powered royalties or this or that they're not making more money, they're just sending the money to different places, right? There's not more money in the pot. Let's send it around to more people that you listen to and that's not a bad idea. Inherently, I don't mind that at all. And that's good. But what we're trying to do is increase the pie. So when you buy a supporters badge, that pie is increased for that particular artist. And if you are making you know, $150 on 100,000 streams or you're making and maybe on Spotify $400 for 100,000 streams, again, depends on where you are and where you're listening. But if you get a certain amount of supporters, you know, we have a couple of artists that have 100 supporters on one song, now you're making even more than you are on Spotify. For that one song, everything is sort of comes into this effective stream rate, which actually is an advertising term that we flipped a little bit effective CPM or effective stream rate is sort of the amalgamation of all the different revenue that you're bringing in, that you could then turn to give to that artist.Dan Runcie 10:32That makes sense. Because if you're thinking about supporters, and you're thinking about just how many artists, you know, total that $30,000 or plus worth of revenue, then you're likely, as you mentioned, you're probably going to have a few at the top, it sounds like there's a few that have 100 or more supporters, but I see. But it does seem like something where you know, as it grows, and it continues, that'll be good. But at least in my perception, you get some if I'm wrong, it seems like it's most likely going to be you know, a few artists that end up doing the doing really well with it. But then their success in a lot of ways not only paves the way for others, but if they become case studies, they could be like, Oh, look how much money so and so made for being able to support us that influences others who either are already on Audiomack, to push their supporters more heavily or encourage us folks that may be on a different platform to come in short years and do the same.David Ponte 11:27That's a really good point. That's what my job and the marketing team's job has been to work with artists to create campaigns for those artists a way to get their fans engaged, but also to prove and provide a template for artists that might follow those artists that we're working with, to then do their own campaigns. And we've seen some of that, I'd like to see more, you know, when we built some additional functionality, and some changes, I think we will see more. But I wanted to give you some examples of some of the cool campaigns that we've seen artists do. So one is this is a Latin pop artist, her name is Noemi, and she had a really cool idea she came to us, we've helped her sort of put it together, essentially, one of her friends makes custom s…

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    The Broccoli City Music Festival Apr 01, 2022
    Show notes

    Today I’m joined by Brandon McEachern and Marcus Allen, the co-founders of Broccoli City. The music festival makes its return to Washington D.C. on May 7-8 with a stacked lineup that includes Gunna, Summer Walker, Wale, and plenty more stars from the world of hip-hop and R&B. The black-owned promotion had not one, but two events canceled in the past two years. During the forced downtime, festival co-founders Marcus Allen and Brandon McEachern made a conscious decision to not just return for 2022, but come back better than ever. Specifically, the two wanted to leverage the Broccoli City platform to create black change. Since starting in 2013, the festival has always catered to black people first and foremost. But in 2022, it’s aiming to give its fans better resources well beyond the music grounds. The duo is accomplishing that in the form of an expo that’ll feature job/internship opportunities, health/wellness tools, financial support for small businesses, and forums on criminal justice issues, amongst other things. The expo is one component of what the festival organizers are calling BLK Change Weekend. The world and the music festival industry have transformed plenty since Broccoli City’s last show in 2019. However, Brandon and Marcus are not just changing with the times — they’re creating it with new initiatives too. Here’s what we covered in this episode of the Trapital podcast: [0:00] Broccoli City Returns For 2022[3:10] The Optics Of Bringing Back Broccoli City After Two Years Of Cancellation [6:34] Artists Charging More For One-Off Festival Than Tour Event [12:25] Managing Egos When Creating Festival Flyers [14:31] Changing Nature Of Agents With Talents[19:05] Broccoli City’s Biggest Advantage Over Other Festivals[23:15] Measuring Success For The Festival[25:25] Anticipating Whether An Event Will Succeed Or Won’t [27:15] How Loyal Are Customers To Certain Festivals? [29:01] Ongoing Challenges Of Being Black Execs In Music Festival Scene[31:15] Influence Of The Live Nation Partnership [34:47] Lining Up The Festival With BLK Change Weekend[41:39] What’s In Store For The 2022 Event?Listen: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | SoundCloud | Stitcher | Overcast | Amazon | Google Podcasts | Pocket Casts | RSSHost: Dan Runcie, @RuncieDan, trapital.coGuests: Marcus Allen, Brandon McEachernThis week’s sponsor is ​1-800-NUMBER, a creative agency that produces iconic moments for brand and artists. The studio has collaborated with Lil' Uzi Vert, Future, Isaiah Rashad, 24KGoldn, Nike, Sony, Universal Music Group, TDE, and more. Want to hear how 1-800-NUMBER can help your next project? Book a free 30-min intro chat.Trapital is home for the business of hip-hop. Gain the latest insights from hip-hop’s biggest players by reading Trapital’s free weekly memo. ______TranscriptionMarcus Allen 00:00Ain't no better feeling to know coming into the event is going down like that, feeling that morning. Those mornings be like the best mornings because you really, there's two times it's the day you drop in in the morning of the festival that is just there's nothing like those two days coming into that time, and those are moments that you really appreciate and you cherish and we've had mornings that have felt good like that. And we may have some mornings and then feel bad because we always walked into the festival that morning, knowing it was about to be a win.Dan Runcie 00:40Hey, welcome to the Trapital Podcast. I'm your host and the founder of Trapital, Dan Runcie. This podcast is your place to gain insights from executives in music, media, entertainment, and more who are taking hip hop culture to the next level. Today's episode is with Brandon McKay Hearn and Marcus Allen. They're the founders of Broccoli City. It's a two-day music festival that's based in DC that has headliners, Annie Lenox, Summer Walker, they have Lil Durk, Gunna, and great lineup of some of the biggest names in hip hop and R&B. This festival is focused on celebrating Black culture more broadly with the entire weekend they have planned with the BLK change weekend, they have a 5K. And they have other community events that really speak to maybe the topics that be branded and Mark is talking about on this episode, we talk about what it was like for them to get this festival off the ground, given some of the challenges the past two years and how COVID set them back. We also talked about some of the challenges dealing with particular artists. Some of you may remember, there was a pretty public complaint from Wale. He was one of the artists that was frustrated, but they were able to navigate some things with him. So we talked about what it's like dealing with artists, some of their pushback, but also we talked a little bit about the broader Asia landscape. If you've been following Trapital, you know, I've talked about examples of the NBA, where you have an agent like a Rich Paul and Klutch Sports and the influence that they've had making things happen for their stars, while the same thing happens in the music industry with some of these powerful agents that are trying to convince themselves and others that their stars deserve to have headlining spots everywhere. So we talked a little bit about that. We also talked about what it's like for black music festival promoters, and how they are not just pushing this, but also some of the challenges they may have in this industry. We also talked about some of the other economics some of the decisions and what Brandon and Marcus are most excited for and how all that stays afloat. If you are interested at all in the music festival space, what it takes to put one on this is definitely the conversation for you. It was a great chat, it was great to reconnect with them both. Here's my chat with Brandon and Marcus. All right, we got Brandon, Marcus co-founders of broccoli city, y'all are back. COVID set y'all back for a couple of years via y'all like “Nah, we're gonna be here. We're gonna make this happen.” So how does it feel?Brandon McEachern 03:10Man, it feels good. It feels good to be back. Happy that the world is opening up. You know, for a minute, dead. Damn, we thought that we was gonna be able to come back for 2021. But you know, COVID and the variant had a different plan in mind. You know what I mean? So, so that's what we're happy. We're back this year, though. 2020 to two days. You know, we outside so it's a good look.Dan Runcie 03:32Yeah, I mean, I feel like it must have been stressful because 2021, once everyone got vaccinated, I'm sure you probably thought the rest of the year was green light, right? Go Let's go. But no, Mari I came through with that touch.Brandon McEachern 03:46And a couple other festivals got off. You know what I mean? So that was the thing to kind of had to like, dang, you know, like Lollapalooza, the biggest festival, one of the best festivals out, shout out to them. They actually, “Oh, rolling loud.” Got to do this. Shout out to Matt Tyree like saying, “Yeah, we just got the short end of the stick on that side. But it's all good.”Marcus Allen 04:04Yeah, I mean, I think the other part too, is is that of the festivals that got off, we were the only ones that was focusing in on people of color, right? And so there was a certain optic that was in the air that was like, as our people was the most effective. It was a decision like, you know, do we put all of our people in jeopardy, right? Do we create a big spreader event? And will the world accept this having a big spreader of like, how he makes up somebody else? And like Brandon and I've just decided it just weren't worth it. It wasn't worth the risk on anybody's part.Dan Runcie 04:33So walk me through the steps of being able to put this back on right because I'm sure some of those same questions you're talking about Marcus some of that trade off? Are people going to be comfortable if there's a super spreader event when we're putting this on? What was that decision process like?Brandon McEachern 04:47Man so um, I think it number one it was we decided we're gonna push through like we came in at ‘22 saying it's gonna take the world to pretty much be shut down for us not to come back right so I think that was number one. We got on the same page with our partners at Live Nation just in terms of what their plan was for COVID one to 22. And once they gave us the “Hey, listen, we're all full steam ahead. We support and you guys fully. We were locked in.” Brandon, everybody affiliated and connected says Book and talent started booking talent. Man probably back in what November. And it took probably longer than it ever took us to book talent because so many shows were rescheduled for 22. So many people wanted to get back on tour, venues were booked and double booked. And so this year was everything about this year was very much different than what we ever ever had.Dan Runcie 05:41And on the side of trying to put the talent you mentioned, it took much longer than ever, what were some of those conversations, like, because I'm sure you had interest but was there more hesitancy because of their own discomfort about COVID or was it just their own uncertainty about their schedules? What was that like?Brandon McEachern 05:58I think that the COVID, the COVID side of it wasn't necessarily the conversation. It was more so the busy runway, like everybody knew that everybody was coming back. So you may want to book artists, but they got to a four or five-city tour that they're trying to push out, you know what I mean? So at the time, they not necessarily thinking about a festival, they trying to do their own, you know, single tour, so it was just having those conversations with agents. And obviously management as well say, hey, you know, this could be a part of your tour day, or whatever the case may be, but I think it was yet again, it really was just a runway, it was just so packed. It was so bad.Dan Runcie 06:34That makes sense. And I'm curious, what was it like from the price perspective? Because when you're dealing with agents when you're dealing with folks, whether it's the artist or even the venue's like where people item or what was there where they try to be like Fat Joe with the yesterday's price is not today's price. Brandon McEachern 06:50Yesterday's price, today's price you got to meet. So I don't know if everybody was just trying to get a bread back from what they had last previously. You don't I mean, those years that we were all, but yeah, prices have definitely went up like the game is crazy, especially when you say that F word. You know, I mean, as soon as you say festival, it changes the dichotomy of the other conversation you didn't mean.Marcus Allen 07:11Agents was talking about inflation is like what was inflated in the price of people themselves? Like what I don't get, how could there be inflation connected with booking talent? Brandon McEachern 07:20You know, is it true? Is it true? You know, that's the cost of playdough, D. That's what you got to do. You know what I mean? That's the cost to play in this game. You know what I'm saying? It's a big cost to so tell my young festival people about to get into this festival game. Just know, these cats is crazy out here.Dan Runcie 07:36You can you talk a bit more about that PC mention where once you make good Festival, the prices go up, or people's eyes light up, you're freaked out, like why is that? And how much higher are we talking?Brandon McEachern 07:48Yeah. Now granted, all this stuff has happened like pre-Marcus and Brandon, right? Like we are, I would say we were Allen Iverson before he got into organized ball. You know what I mean? Like, that was us for the longest time. We were independent. I mean, we actually still kind of are independent. But a club show that's different than you know, than a festival day. You know what I mean? A one-off is different yet again, from a festival date. Because I think personally, they start looking at your pockets too.Marcus Allen 08:16Well, you know, what it is, is the most festivals, in a lot of cases, while there is a capacity, once you reach capacity, that number’s so big. That is crazy, right? So they're thinking about hard cap. So you go play a film, or I can say specifically, we're going to sell 1,500 tickets. When you’re in a festival ground, that's 100,000 square feet, I might be able to sell 20,000 I might be able to sell 50,000 So they plan for that margin, is he gonna sell 20? Or is he gonna sell 50 they trying to get money like you're gonna pay for 50? You know, I'm saying even if you know, you only got to sell to 20. But they ain't trying to hear that.Dan Runcie 08:52That's real. Because even some of these tours that take place in a theaters or outside venues, there's still a capacity there. But I think people see the flexibility there. But then people obviously see when there's too much flexibility. And there's there could be logistical issues and things like that. The other piece that is a factor of festivals that I would assume is probably part of it, too, is because it's more of a one-off event as opposed to touring. People want to up the price for that event, right. It's almost like paying someone a per diem rate even though that per diem rate would never be their salary for if you normalize it out over a set period, right?Brandon McEachern 09:29I like the way you broke that down, D. Yeah, yeah, we get and they are, they're in demand. So they can say what I mean, if you got a good album, if you pop in, you can kind of say whatever, you know, and to be honest, a lot of promoters have paid these artists that hefty hefty bag. So they like yo I'm not going back regardless of what your festival may mean to the community or whatever the case may be, you know, so get again you get you got to pay to play.Marcus Allen 09:56And then the other part of that too is is that in the festival scene is so competitive with the big boys, that they need certain names to be able to headline those festivals. And so they really created a housing bubble. That's really what we end right now. Right? There's literally a bubble. And for only way for it to burst is that as a collective, the Live Nations, the AGs, they got to just simply say to the agents, nah, we not paying it no more, but they keep paying it. They keep paying it. Every time when an agent come with a wild number, somebody is paying it. So it's really in the body…Brandon McEachern 10:34you make this clear that we're not anti paying people what they were, you know, I mean, let me just say that right now. Like, it's all good, we get it, you know what I mean? Your talents that God gave you that gift, you know, I just got through listening to you, whatever the case may be, I know what this money is doing for your family. You know what I mean? Because at the end of the day, a lot of these artists are getting a lot of a bread from shows, you know, me, I don't know what the streaming stuff is, and all that. But we do understand that these festivals are a bulk of a lot of these artists’ income or whatever the case may be. So we definitely adhere to that. And we pay all of our artists very well. You know what I mean? I don't think nobody would say Oh, broccoli city shortchanged us or anything of that nature, never at all. Never. Dan Runcie 11:16That housing market analogy, I think makes perfect sense, right? Because we're seated now across the America, you have people with well-paying jobs do their thing. And then someone else giving out $100,000 above asking price cash off to go…

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    Why Podcast Ownership Matters with Brittany Luse and Eric Eddings of “For Colored Nerds” Mar 25, 2022
    Show notes

    A lot of creators talk about owning their intellectual property and distribution, but co-hosts of the For Colored Nerds podcast — Eric Eddings and Brittany Luse — actually went and made it happen, by any means necessary. The two left the Spotify-owned Gimlet Media network in 2020, leaving behind The Nod show (and its IP) which they had built up since 2017. As “free agents”, the duo made ownership a mandate in its next podcast deal.Stitcher was happy to oblige, bringing the two together in a homecoming of sorts. Before Gimlet, Eric and Brittany began podcasting with Stitcher which included the first iteration of the For Colored Nerds podcast. Now it’s back in its second form — still with a heavy dose of discourse about the intersection of pop and Black culture, but now with a dash of personal opinions from the two on ongoing issues as they see it.For Colored Nerds is one example of how the media industry is transforming in real-time. While Eric and Brittany got what they wanted, it wasn’t easy. The two joined me on this episode of Trapital to discuss this laborious process that included lawyers and agents — two things most creators aren’t privy to. Here’s everything we discussed in this episode:[3:07] Why Choose Stitcher Over Other Networks? [5:52] Changing Landscape Of Creator Ownership[9:22] Biggest Barriers To Having A Fair Contract[11:31] Will Future Podcast Networks Embrace Creator Ownership?[18:23] How Does The Podcast Balance What Topics To Discuss On The Show?[22:10] What Makes Podcasting So Special[28:51] The Polarization Of Tyler Perry [37:06] The Perils Of An “Elitist” Mindset[42:28] Relationship With Present-Day Music Compared To Past Favorites[49:23] Knowing Your AudienceThis episode is brought to you by Koji, the best “link in bio” tool. It is trusted by Grammy winners, chart-topping hitmakers, and more. Join 185,000+ creators. Check it out for free: koji.to/trapitalpodcastListen: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | SoundCloud | Stitcher | Overcast | Amazon | Google Podcasts | Pocket Casts | RSSHost: Dan Runcie, @RuncieDan, trapital.coGuests: Brittany Luse, IG: @bmluse | Eric Eddings, Twitter: @eeddings | For Colored Nerds Podcast, IG & Twitter: @ForColoredNerdsTrapital is home for the business of hip-hop. Gain the latest insights from hip-hop’s biggest players by reading Trapital’s free weekly memo. Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands_____Eric Eddings 00:00What the industry kind of needs to understand is that people now, like, require that flexibility. Because so many creators understand different parts of the trajectory. Everybody's not necessarily trying to be, you know, at the pinnacle of podcasts or like on the front page of, you know, iTunes every single day. There are different levels. Some people are having a podcast, they want it as a significant companion to maybe something else that they're building. And so they understand what place that podcast could fit into their lives and into their brand or ecosystem.Dan Runcie 00:38Hey, welcome to the Trapital podcast. I'm your host and the founder of Trapital, Dan Runcie. This podcast is your place to gain insights from executives in music, media, entertainment, and more, who are taking hip hop culture to the next level.On today's episode, I'm joined by Brittany Luse and Eric Eddings. They're the host of the podcast, For Colored Nerds, which peels back the layers of black culture. I've been following Brittany and Eric's work for a while now, back when they had their podcast on gimlet media, The Nod. And they also had the Quibi Show after that. And they recently relaunched their old podcast, For Colored Nerds. So we talked about that, we talked about the journey and how Brittany and Eric have been so open and transparent about podcast ownership and some of the back and forth challenges that have happened not just with them, but with other podcasters that ultimately what they hope to see in this industry in the future. We also talked a bit more about how they go about thinking of their content, some of the common themes that they'll discuss on the shows, and one of the things that they discuss, which is a topic I've often discussed on Trapital as well is Tyler Perry. If you've read through Apple, you know that I'm more so, talking about Tyler for what he's achieved from a business perspective, which I've always found inspiring and great. But on the content side, it's a little different, because I think many people do have some conflicting opinions about how he's gone about things that he put out, and, but also recognizing that there was an audience that Tyler has unapologetically been willing to serve, and what that means for him as a business leader, and how that obviously has led to his success. So we talked a lot about that. And we also talked more broadly about hip hop as well. Folks like us, who I think grew up in the 90s and 2000s, and may still resonate with so many of the artists from that era, how do we relate to current day hip hop? And is it our place to relate to some of the current artists? So we talk about that, and a whole lot more. Here's my chat with Brittany and Eric. All right, today, we got Brittany and Eric from the For Colored Nerds Podcast. I’ve been a big fan. I've been following their work for a while, and also their journey. And before we start, I do just want to say thank you to both of you, because I feel like you've been so open about so much in the podcasting space. And I think a lot of people learned a lot from that. So thank you both it’s much appreciated.Brittany Luse 03:00Thank you.Eric Eddings 03:01Thank you for having us. Yeah, it's been a wild ride in this industry. But it's been good. Dan Runcie 03:07Definitely. And I know for you that your journey has been well documented, you're back on the podcast that you had started years back with For Colored Nerds. And now you're with Stitcher, and I'd love to start there because I'm sure that you got hit up by a number of different outlets or networks that likely wanted to partner with y'all. What was it about stitcher that made you want to work with them?Eric Eddings 03:31Wow. I mean, I felt like there was a lot I mean. To your point, we did a bit of the tour, I guess you could say, in terms of meeting with tons of distributors, you know, after our Quibi show kind of wound down after, hell, after Quibi. Went down a rabbit...Brittany Luse 03:47It happens on the same day.Eric Eddings 03:50Yeah, exactly. But no, with Stitcher, I think there were a few things that lined up pretty quickly. They were the only ones who who started the conversation, knowing that we were coming in with a desire to own our show, which is funny, because as to your point before, like, we have been very open about like some of the conflicts that we you know, had around pursuing ownership in particular. And so I think like that changed the conversation in a way where we then, actually, could talk more freely and comfortably about what we wanted the show to be, you know, because again, there was not that fear of like, you know, will it be ours? And will we maybe have to make something different, you know, after the fact if we don't own and kind of control that so I think that was like one big piece of it. I'm curious Brittany, like what you would addBrittany Luse 04:37I mean, a big part of it, too, is like the team. I mean, one of the people that we got to you know, talk with coming into Stitcher when we were just sort of in the initial feeling each other out stage is someone who turned out to be the cousin of someone we met a few years ago and like hit it off with, Natalie Well who's amazing, she's literally just made us feel comfortable from like moment one. Also Peter Clowney, who is, Eric knows this, proper title. I feel terrible because I can't remember anyone's proper title. Because Eric works at Stitcher as an executive, and I am but a lowly, what's the word? I paid a vendor, I'm a vendor. And so I'm not always proven everything happens within a company. Peter Clowney, who is like I think the VP of content at Stitcher, he was the very first editor that I ever had, like podcast editor, like the very first edit. And it is like a term in podcasting, where the team will sit and listen, or be sent a version of an episode, and leave comments and share them with each other in order to make the episode better and get to that next draft. The first time I ever did that, was with Peter Clowney and that was 2015. So, you know, I have this full-circle moment when in 2021, he's the person who's really extending the offer for us to come and join Stitcher. That just felt really, right. Brittany Luse 05:52Also, you know, we first launched For Colored nerds with Stitcher, we have an incredible executive producer, Kameel Stanley, who is basically like a legend of public radio in St. Louis and is just a hell of an executive producer. She, I mean, she kept like, the first I think we had her for what, maybe three, four months, when we were first really ramping up, she kept things together, and she kept things moving. Yeah. And she was somebody who we had already, we've been interviewed by before, I think the previous year with regard to rights and ownership and IP and everything like that. She is just a fantastic journalist and just was such an amazing guide. So it was just so amazing to have this experience where we had so many sharp people who we had either met before had a relationship with before or had a meaningful link to coming in. And it just kind of made things feel a lot more familiar. And also to they were just fast. They're just fast. They were like, yeah, they followed up, they were fast. And they were, I don't know, I mean, I think in so many areas of life, like somebody like the person who's just eager to follow up with you and eager to form that connection or cement that relationship. That's usually the person that you want to go with.Dan Runcie 07:02That makes sense. Yeah, I hear the relationship side of it. I also hear the ownership side of it too. And especially with the way things are shifting now, sometimes it's still so shocking that it is still such a charged or controversial thing for whether it's podcasters writers or creators in any type of shape too, what, I mean, you're coming in, you have a base, you have plenty of leverage, like how is this still one of these discussions where they want 100% of the thing, and there's not even a discussion about shared or what that could look like. And I mean, it's not just, you always see this at the highest levels, whether it's I think, was Michaela Coel, when she was talking about I May Destroy You when she was going back and forth, whether it was Netflix or HBO on wanting a slice, like, this is something that is clearly a challenge and a difficult thing for people at every scale of this game.Eric Eddings 07:54I mean, the industry is shifting, and you know, depending upon what side of the Creator versus like, you know, distributor network, you're on, you maybe view how fast that industry is shifting differently. You know? And it's something that I think the industry has to do a better job at understanding. People are more literate about the trials and tribulations and pitfalls that you can run into trying to create something, and trying to create something that like is distributed to other people, wherever podcasts, movies, music, you know, I'm saying like, we all have the same internet, and like, we've all read the stories and the features. And so people know more of what to ask for. And, you know, the reasons they might have received before about why they, you know, could not or maybe should not deserve, like, you know, the rights to their own content are starting to, you know, finally feel frivolous. And so, you know, I think that thing is changing, I think it is still though a game of leverage, and it's still, you know, depends on what you have in your corner, sadly, to be able to kind of push the issue, you know, with the distributor, with just whoever you're partnering with to be able to get what you want. And yeah, there sadly, is still a lot of.. We got reached out to today about this same, this very same issue. And it's that's something that happens fairly frequently. So there's a lot of work that still has to happen.Dan Runcie 09:15And on that note, is it people reaching out to you asking you for advice to be like, Hey, I know you all want Yes. Any thoughts?Brittany Luse 09:22Yes. I mean, yeah, emails, text messages, phone calls, DMS, I had somebody reach out to me via text on behalf of one of their friends yesterday, wondering about the same thing. And I mean, there's, you know, we try to give as much advice as we can. But at the end of the day, the best advice you can get in those situations definitely comes from like a legal professional. Typically, those are the people that you want to defer to. We are not we are not those. That's why sometimes I podcast people like what would you guys see what I'm like, You know what, I am not in the business of giving legal advice, but my biggest piece of legal advice is to get a lawyer. But yeah, I mean, obviously I share a little bit more people than that. But yeah, I think because we've been so open, sometimes people that we do not even know will reach out to us out of the blue, just to be like, Hey, this is something that I know that you went through, do you have 5, 10, 15, 30 minutes to talk with me and kind of guide me through this process? I mean, I will say the thing that I always say, which is that these contracts should not be so difficult that a regular person could not pick up and read them. I think that there's obviously how do I put it, I mean, a barrier to being able to have a fair contract is having the financial resources and also the institutional knowledge relationships, to be able to get a lawyer like that something that we did not have, I don't think I know when I first started working at Gimlet back in 2015. I didn't have the financial resources to hire a lawyer. Yeah, it wasn't an option, I wouldn't have known how to find an entertainment lawyer. Because before then, I was working as like, I mean, marketing manager was the title, but that didn't line up with what I was doing at my job. So yeah, I wouldn't have had like the relationships, the understanding, I wouldn't have known how to find an entertainment lawyer. And I definitely didn't have the money coming into working there to have that. So I think that like, you know, there is a certain level of like, eat, we're all being finessed a little bit, by the fact that people have to get not feel like they have to, but really, truly have to have agents and lawyers and money upfront, to be able to spend on having somebody basically be their pitbull, and get into the ring and fight for the contract that they deserve.Dan Runcie 11:31Yeah, it's interesting with podcasting, specifically, because I look at the music industry, or even with writing to some extent, I have seen a few more of these hybrid models where it's okay, you can release your music on this platform, we offer a little bit more of a distribution push and a little bit more of a network per se than you would get if you just did it solely on your own. But you could still maintain the ownership, we just get, you know, a set cut or whatever it is. And we've seen this in music, whether it's record labels like Empire that started with a similar type of mindset, or some of the others, even with writing, I've started to see some creative things. But with podcasting, specifical…

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    How Kevin Liles Built 300 Entertainment Into A $400 Million Business In Under 10 Years Mar 18, 2022
    Show notes

    Kevin Liles didn’t co-found 300 Entertainment just to sell it. He created it, first and foremost, to fill a void he saw in the music industry — a lack of talent development. Ten years after starting the 300 record label, it’s safe to say Kevin and company filled that void. By developing culture-shifting artists like Gunna, Megan Thee Stallion, Young Thug, among others, 300 has become one of the hottest commodities in all of hip-hop. This led to WMG buying the formerly-independent label for $400 million at the start of the new year.In WMG, Kevin believes he’s found a partner with the “mindset of an independent, but the muscle of a major.” As the one-time EVP of WMG, Kevin would know this first-hand. And even with an influx of $400 million, Kevin isn’t going to change the way he makes decisions. For Kevin, it’s always been about prioritizing the cultural incentives rather than the financial ones. This mindset has followed him from Def Jam intern to its President and now as CEO of 300 & Elektra Music Group.In-between running the label, Kevin has also invested resources in creating a pipeline for future music and entertainment execs with diverse backgrounds. In particular, Kevin has tapped into HBCUs, helping set up a $250 million fundraising campaign for his alma mater, Morgan State, and connecting students directly with the FBI. Kevin and I covered a lot of ground in this episode of the Trapital. Here are the show chapters:[3:23] Behind 300 Entertainment’s Sale To Warner Music[8:29] Gunna’s Meteoric Rise [10:29] How Phrases Like Hot Girl Summer & Pushin P Became A Thing [13:08] What Changes With WMG Partnership? [15:58] New Def Jam Video Game In The Works? [17:27] Launching 300 Studios [20:17] Kevin Thinks The Best Is Yet To Come For Hip Hop[22:10] Hip Hop’s International Opportunity [24:23] Major Differences Between Running Def Jam vs. 300 [28:10] The Power Of Diverse Execs Making Cultural, Not Financial Decisions[30:25] How Music Industry Has Handled Diversity Issues Since George Floyd[31:00] Kevin’s Attempt To Create Diverse Talent Pipeline[32:14] The Rise Of Hip-Hop Media Personalities[40:35] Young Thug’s Role As Chief Innovation Officer[43:49] Keeping Narrative On The Future, Not PastThis episode is brought to you by Koji, the best “link in bio” tool. It is trusted by Grammy winners, chart-topping hitmakers, and more. Join 185,000+ creators. Check it out for free: koji.to/trapitalpodcastListen: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | SoundCloud | Stitcher | Overcast | Amazon | Google Podcasts | Pocket Casts | RSSHost: Dan Runcie, @RuncieDan, trapital.coGuest: Kevin Liles, IG: @kevinlileskwl, Twitter: @KevinLiles1Trapital is home for the business of hip-hop. Gain the latest insights from hip-hop’s biggest players by reading Trapital’s free weekly memo. Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands_____TRANSCRIPTIONKevin Liles 00:00When you put diverse people at the head of the company, and you allow that person to make cultural decisions and not financial decisions on something that they don't know, so that young people run a company, they don't know they might go to a concert, but they don't know when a kid could come in, like I came in. And I saw Russell, I said, “Oh, he's the boss.” So you mean if you're the boss, you can move stuff that you want to people not only want to be an employee or work in music, no, they want to run companies. And until we as an industry, and really this is not just about the music industry, this is about the world. Until a CEO that looks like them, act like them talk like them, you know, that's when you unleash the true power of where we are in our culture.Dan Runcie 00:56Today's episode is with Kevin Liles, the Chairman and CEO of 300 Entertainment and Electro Music Group. Kevin's been one of the most influential record label executives of the past few decades. He ran Def Jam for seven years in the late 90s, early 2000s. And almost 10 years ago, he started 300 Entertainment, which he just sold to Warner for a $400 million deal. So we talked about everything that went into that decision, what it was like to sell the record label what a partnership with Warner looks like and how the record label can maintain its independent spirit under the umbrella of native record labels. We also talked about Gunner and how he's having one of the biggest years in hip hop right now and Pusha P and everything with that. We talked about Megan Thee Stallion and we talked about Thug. Did you know that Thug is Chief Innovation Officer at 300? When we talked all about that and what that means and a whole lot more. He also gave us the latest update on Def Jam Vendetta. You know the people that ask him at Def Jam Vendetta, they want to see the video game come back through. So we talked about that. We also talked to broader about IP. If you follow me on social media, you know that I want to see the story to hip hop record labels get the same type of TV anthology breakdowns that we're seeing now about Thera Nose and WeWork and Uber I want to see the same about Def Jam and Bad Boy and Rockefeller. And we talked a little bit about that too. It was a great conversation. I think it's always inspiring to talk to one of the most influential execs in hip hop that I believe really helped to make this culture what it is. Here's my chat with Kevin Liles. All right, today we got co-founder and CEO with 300. Entertainment Kevin Liles with us today. Hey, Kevin, I got to give you a shout out man, it feels like you've had one of the strongest starts to this year sold the record label, Gunner’s hit starting the year off strong. How does it feel?Kevin Liles 02:43It feels like another day at the office. People ask me all the time, Kevin, what's new, every day is new. Every day is a new opportunity. God woke me up and I feel there's a bigger purpose. And I feel the steps that we take, I don't look for number one albums, I don't look for to be, accolades or to be the best this or anything. I really just strive on doing this work that day. And I joke with somebody I said no with me, I'm never gonna be up too upset, they'll never be too sad. I will flow like water. And water is a very powerful thing because it helps grow. It changes direction with the most people around the world. So I feel like what is great about me.Dan Runcie 03:23I hear that. So talk to me a bit about the sale because that made big news, there was rumors about it happening towards the end of 2021. But walk me through that process. When did you first think about selling 300 and what went into the decision for you?Kevin Liles 03:39I never thought about selling. I don't build things to sell. I'm a serial entrepreneur, but I build things to change the world. And I find a void. And the void was the creation of 300 co-founders, the void was there was no true artist about it. When we talk about our students. I'm not just talking about developing a sound or developing of a person I'm saying we're raising young kids, young men, and women into the world. And so they need to have some have dads and we have moms and we had by my dad, but some have not, you know around them. So we need to be of service to their growth. So when people say what are you thinking about selling, I always was thinking about who was my best partner that I could have the independent of my mindset of independent, but the muscle of a major who's the best partner that independence will be in their DNA, who's the best partner that I could actually administer around the world, the good, the bad, the right the wrong and treat the body want to be treated. And so I'm not for sale. 300 as an entity I sold because I wanted entrepreneurs to learn what intrapreneurship was to add what tools in a toolboxes around the world, but you know, people can't be sold a company what I did was sold an asset that I felt could be a bigger asset to the world. I'd say do you think Steve, isn't a Jeff Bezos is still sitting in his garage. No. Do you think that guys are still in a dorm room? Yeah, I mean, Zuckerberg in a dorm room? No, no, we actually have a great idea, a great business, we're acquiring things, starting different things. So I believe the sale is something that people put too much emphasis on. Now, with that being said, I wanted also to create history. So if you think about Motown selling for 61 million, if you think about Def Jam, selling for 140 million on the face, on 425 million getting sold for 325, or even a man selling for 500 million in 27 years, eight years, we sold a company for $400 million. And so to me, I also think about legacy and history and what that means. So if people want to talk about the sale, talk about it in a way, that is historic for an African American, historic for a company, but it's also profitable for shareholders. And as a CEO, you know, we got to make sure the shareholders and the board a great, but I think the culture needed to see that it is a possibility to build something, sell something, become a bigger brand by doing it, but never lose the mindset of an independent.Dan Runcie 06:13I think that's an interesting good point, because so many of the big, whether it's the catalog sales, or the record label sales that we've seen over the past two years that we've seen this run happen, a lot of them haven't been with executives that are black, or executives that, you know, are just non-white men in general. So I think that the fact that you were able to do that shows and signals not just what you're capable of, but also what your artists are capable of, too. And I think as well on the partnership side, it's interesting because I think that 300, maybe, you know, relative to a lot of the other labels that were independent before people may have thought that “Oh, well. 300 is just as powerful as some of the majors or you know, definitely has the same firepower behind it.” But it sounds like what you're saying is that, yeah, even with all that we've accomplished, there's still more that we can have, you know, with the backing and with the further partnership of a company like a Warner.Kevin Liles 07:11We shocked the world where we had more Grammys than the majors but magazine three Grammys, you know, we shot the world that we put out and we're up against a major and had the number one album in the first week out as this little independent thing, you got to realize all the stuff that's happening now is still stuff we've set up last year. And so as we go into this year, just look for us to be doing hashtag bigger family business, not just family business, but bigger family business.Dan Runcie 07:37Yeah, I hear that. And I think too, talking about the artists that were able to do things, I mean, Ghana has been the poster child so far this year, at least when it comes to hip hop, I mean, not just him getting the number one single but him being the weekend, but then had everything surrounding around Pusha P and everything there. I mean, I assume that has to feel pretty good. Because I think it's so tough, especially in this era, to have superstars and people that are on the verge of superstar status to kind of grow in get there with so much noise and so much other artists that are coming through whether it's independence or others. So the fact that he's able to, you know, not show to he compete, but outsell other superstars, I think shows a lot of not just the potential, but also that this is still possible in this era, we can still have the biggest stars continue to reach further heights.Kevin Liles 08:29Yeah, I think you'd want to talk about true artist development and from the dropping of drip Season One, two, and three, and one. And all those things, you got to realize that young kid was just sitting by bug in the studio learning and he never stopped learning, we never stopped evolving. And when you saw him perform with commitment to balance, open up the brands, you know, one year, he's all things that became attainable to him and through by us the work that went into ds for the thoughtfulness of how it started, ebb and flows of it, of how many girl records should I have on it? What am I trying to say? I can't say I'm dripping. And I'm not really drip. So I have to be in every fashion show or it just you know, the thoughtfulness. We're not just putting out records, if you want to do that, that's not 300. 300 is thoughtful. 300 is taking the time to understand where an artist is in their career. Where is it a mixtape time isn't an album time? Is it collab time? These are all things that because people don't have the relationships with the artists, then if the artists house or going on vacation, they can't really communicate. You know, obviously, you can't hand me something without an owner's name. I have to know everything about it so I can assist. You know, Gunner is more than an RC you can, he's a human being but he's also a very good friend. You know, Evany his manager is not just a manager. She's a system that could be a daughter to me, and I have a responsibility to develop another young woman in our industry. So to me, what are we Pusha P whenever we have Hot Girl Summer, well we attract cooling it or you know, Savage in it, whatever you whatever one you want to a week bad and bougie in it. But everyone you want to pick up. We don't just, you know have moments we make movies.Dan Runcie 10:15I like that you mentioned that because you have had so many I feel like every year every other year, there's some moment that 300 is able to capture some term that they're able to introduce something in the water like power, y'all always the ones that have the terms on lock. Kevin Liles 10:29You know, I think it's a great commentary to the great artists and the great creators and the great executives that we have run if we don't make this shit up. We didn't go to FedWatch and say, Yo, do trap boo. We didn't go to mag and say have a hot girl summer. We don't go to yo, guess what the Gunner we go, Pusha P, that's not how it happens. It happens because we provide a safe place for ideation, creativity, and opportunities for people to fail. But failure is a learning experience. You know, when Marvin Gaye wanted to do what's going on, and it was an appointment, and what his biggest-selling album, it was just where he was in life. ps4 is where Gunner is in life. Punk was where thug was in life. You can't go through manufacture in the ship. And it's not cultural. And if it's not cultural, then it really can't be 300 to me, and that's really the message and one of the great things about being able to take over the electrode of entertainers we've also it's in their ethos, we have great labels like FBI, FDR, Roadrunner, iconic labels that started with founders that had a point of view. And so to me, as long as I have a point of view, as long as it be cultural, as long as I could have the independent mindset, I'm good. And I'm doing it all, again to raise great young men and women, web executives or artists. But I really believe God wakes me up to change the world. I really believe it is not even a question in my mind. And so I want to get better. I want to be a better father, a better operator, a better friend. And if you always challenge yourself that there is more, that there is more to do. If you reimagine and rethink and things you will see God will answer you in so many great way. Do you think that the VR sold a company eight months ago now months ago, Mary Jane, you connected? Did you think she was performing at the Superbowl? Do you think that the Super Bowl, who wou…

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    How Quality Control Music Invests in Startups Mar 11, 2022
    Show notes

    Dazayah Walker is the Head of Investments at Quality Control Music, the label behind today’s most trendsetting artists like Lil Baby and Migos, Dazayah. She maintains QC’s investment portfolio, particularly within the startup space, which spans well beyond just music and entertainment. Being a 23-year-old venture capitalist is difficult as is. Now tack on being female and black? “It’s been a journey”, as Dazayah Walker shares with us in this episode of the Trapital podcast.Dazayah’s path to becoming a Venture Capitalist is as unorthodox as you’ll find in the venture capital world, but she’s stuck to the same principles that got her that opportunity to begin with — seeking out mentors, surrounding herself with a supportive community, and taking the learning process day-by-day. Before overseeing QC’s investments, Dazayah worked on the music side for the label. She began as an intern for QC, and worked her way through the ranks at the same time QC was taking the music industry by storm. Not only is Dazayah breaking down doors, but she’s also trying to leave them open for future aspiring VC’s with similar unconventional backgrounds. As Dazayah continues to learn the ins and outs of venture capital, she plans on creating initiatives to educate others about the world she operates in. To hear Dazayah’s future ambitions, plus everything else we covered in the show, reference the video chapters below: [0:00] Dazayah’s goals with her role[2:13] Dazayah’s Transition Into Venture Capital[5:29] What Is QC’s Investment Thesis? [6:35] The Pros And Cons Of Involving QC Artists Into Investments[9:16] What Does Dazayah Look For In A Company Before Investing? [10:49] QC Investing Beyond Just Music and Entertainment [10:45] Dazayah’s particular interest in Fintech[12:56] QC’s and Dazayah’s Involvement With Techstars[14:48] The Challenge Dazayah Faced Breaking Into The VC World[16:04] What Programs Have Helped Dazayah Adjust To The VC World? [17:40] What Was Behind QC’s Investment Into Riff? [18:50] QC’s Investment Portfolio Explained [20:00] “You Can Do This Too And This Is How”[23:30] Music-Wise, What Is Dazayah Most Excited About QC In Near Future?Listen: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | SoundCloud | Stitcher | Overcast | Amazon | Google Podcasts | Pocket Casts | RSSHost: Dan Runcie, @RuncieDan, trapital.coGuest: Dazayah Walker, @dazayahTrapital is home for the business of hip-hop. Gain the latest insights from hip-hop’s biggest players by reading Trapital’s free weekly memo. Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands-----------Dazayah Walker 00:00Finding success here and having a strong track record and proven portfolio and then be able to use that as a way to show people you can do this too, and this is how, let me show you how, let me be that person to help you understand and be a part of it.Dan Runcie 00:23Hey, welcome to the Trapital Podcast. I'm your host and the founder of Trapital, Dan Runcie. This podcast is your place to gain insights from executives in music, media, entertainment, and more, who are taking hip hop culture to the next level. Today's episode is with Dazayah Walker, Head of Investments and the Operations Manager at Quality Control Music. This is an exciting role to have at a time like this. QC has been on a run the past few years and has really shaped what hip hop is sounded like, from artists like Migos, to City Girls, to Lil Baby, and then on the other side of this hip hop investing activity is growing faster than ever, and we're seeing more and more artists getting ICAP tables, getting involved with deals. So it's a really exciting time to have a role like this. I talked with Dazayah about what it's been like from her perspective, and representing and getting roles not just for QC as a firm, but for the artists that they represent, and how she has navigated the record label growing as fast as it has the past few years to venture capital landscape and how she's been able to navigate that and a whole lot more. Had a great conversation with her. Hope you enjoy it. Here's my chat with Dazayah Walker. All right, we got Dazayah Walker here today, who is the Head of Investments at Quality Control Music. Dazayah, welcome to the pod. Dazayah Walker 01:42Hello, I'm so happy to be here. Super excited. Let's do this. Dan Runcie 01:46Yeah, so one of the things that stuck out to me about you and your career, you had started as an intern at QC, and you've risen up the ranks there as the label as not just a record label, but as an entertainment company. And now with a corporate venture arm or brollies just continue to grow and expand. Dazayah Walker 02:05Yes. Dan Runcie 02:06Walk me through the steps. What was it like from when you started to where it is now, just with how fast things have been growing there? Dazayah Walker 02:13Yeah, it's been a great journey and experience for me, with this being my first job. There's been a lot of learning curves with that in itself. But it was definitely a privilege and a great opportunity to be able to see the growth of QC, because we've expanded in so many different ways since I started as an intern, and being able to be a part of that, witness that, learn from that I couldn't be in a better position. Dan Runcie 02:36And is there anything specific with the role that you have now that had drawn you to it or something specifically because I know you had started a bit more focused on operations? And then now we're obviously seeing much more on the investment side. But was there something about that opportunity that pulled you in? Dazayah Walker 02:52Yes, so getting to this side was definitely a path of, I would say divine ordering because me entering the opportunity at QC. Starting as an intern, I thought I just wanted to do music, work my way up to being a music industry executive. But as I became more in the groove, and learning more of the things that I like, things that I don't like, I really had to find my place. And when I discovered what venture capital was, because when I was at Spelman, I was an economics major. So I kind of have like, I've always been surrounded by that when I was in school, just the finance, track and everything like that. But me venturing into music was me following my passion or what I thought was my passion at that time. So when I discovered what venture capital was, it was actually kind of crazy to me that I hadn't learned about it when I was in school, considering the impact that Morehouse, our brother institution has, as far as their representation of black men in venture capital. It was just crazy to me that I was at an institution right across the street and had no idea that this industry even existed. So when I stumbled across VC and began learning about it, I just saw the opportunity for artists, athletes and entertainers to be involved and was curious as to why more people that look like us aren't represented in those spaces. So that's when you know, my research and dedication to being in this position really started. And then from there, you know, bringing that idea and really helped become what we're building today with quality Ventures has been amazing. Dan Runcie 04:26So talk to me about that piece about bringing this idea together. So was it you seeing the opportunity and seeing how much of a disconnect there was and then going into the team at QC to be like, hey, there's something big here and we have talent here that could be just as influential. Dazayah Walker 04:42Yes. So it was a moment where I had to really think about what legacy do I want to have, what value do I want to add, and being in this position, you know, I built relationships with, you know, our entire team. So I was somebody that, you know, they trusted and when I, you know, have something to say they were listening, and you know, they embraced any idea or anything that I had. So by, you know, telling them and showing them, you know, the opportunity that exists for us in this space, it was well-received. And now here we are deploying capital, making investments. And my goal is really for us to have that same little level of influence and impact that we have in music in the venture capital space, as well. So having that same strong presence and footprint in that industry, too.Dan Runcie 05:29So what does that thesis look like? What does that investment goal look like for QC specifically, because I'm sure it's more than just the financial aspect? There's the pitch and how it can help intersect and how the music itself and everything you're doing on the media and entertainment side can help with the venture opportunity too?Dazayah Walker 05:48Absolutely, so our biggest thing is adding value, adding strategic value. So for us being in a unique position of being that entity that defines culture and creates culture, I feel like we're uniquely positioned to leverage our artists and our athletes to really help grow these companies that we see as potential winners.Dan Runcie 06:11And are there ever any specific moments where folks are reaching out? And there's, of course, the interest in having QC on the cap table, but then people reaching out about specific artists, whether it's like, oh, well, we want to have City Girls on here, specifically, or we want to be able to have a Lil Baby on here? How has it been with that piece of advice, I'm sure that could be an interesting discussion, especially from your landscape with all of that. Dazayah Walker 06:35So that happens a lot as well. And it all boils down to seeing if the artist even aligns with what you're building. Because when you're working with early stage, or pre-seed stage companies, that may be the very first version of whatever they're building, there's so many more iterations yet to happen. And as the entity continues to grow, and transform, the artists that they thought may be ideal for what they're building as a representation may not be as they continue to, you know, redefine what it is that they're building. So yes, you know, we get opportunities all the time for our artists, which was another reason why, like the opportunity to bridge the gap and intersect music and technology was so evident and clear to me, you know, to pursue and to do, because those opportunities and those deals are always flowing. But really being in a position being someone that knows how to evaluate those opportunities, and educate, you know, the artist, or the athlete or whoever may be to let them know, like, this is why this is a good, you know, opportunity or something to look at and this is why it isn't.Dan Runcie 07:41I also imagine that there's likely people that may be reaching out because they may want just the exposure that may come right, they may be like, “Oh, well, if y'all invest can Lil Baby, give us a shout out for the product on some song. And I could see there being you know, some pushback on that, because obviously, you all would see the opportunity as being greater than that.” But how was that piece of it been? Because I know, I've heard similar from folks in the entertainment space when they're looking to have not just celebrities, but artists specifically on the cap table.Dazayah Walker 08:13Well, personally, I don't think a founder having that mindset is necessarily wrong because in the VC ecosystem now, capital isn't an issue. So getting the money having people to, you know, write a check for you isn't the hard part. It’s actually once you get that money, how can you use that, you know, relationship that you now have to help build your company or grow whatever it is that you're building. So I feel like a founder having that perspective isn't necessarily a bad thing, because you want to have partners that can help you grow your company and add value in different ways. So if there is an opportunity for an artist, if it's something that they really love, you know, to be an ambassador for it, and to push it.Dan Runcie 08:58So when you're evaluating startups, and when you're evaluating artists, or not artists, founders, specifically, what are you looking for, like, what is your criteria set? And what are those things whether it's tangible or intangible that you're looking for that clears that over the hurdle to be like, Yes, this is what we want to invest in?Dazayah Walker 09:16So I would break it down into three things. The first thing I would say, what is the problem that you're trying to solve? Is this a problem that is unique to you and from like, or where you're from? Or is this a problem that is affecting a wide market of people? So first, understanding the problem, and if the solution that they're attempting to build is a solution for the greater good? The second thing is really understanding their team, like, who do you have helping you build this? What people do need a position to help you build it? And like how much traction Have you gotten so far. And the first, and I think the most important thing is the founder, when you're working with companies that are likely pre-revenue, maybe they have a very, very early version of their product, you're placing a bet on the founder. So knowing the type of person to look for, or the type of characteristics to look for in a founder, I think are very important. Somebody that is determined, somebody that is all in like willing to make the investment themselves because how do you expect me or someone to make an investment when you haven't even, you know, fully invested yourself in this in this idea? So I will say those are the top three things that I look at when I meet with founders and new companies.Dan Runcie 10:33That makes sense. And then in terms of the industries themselves, is there any type of sector that you're particularly looking for, or any other type of industry that you feel is most aligned with what QC or Quality Ventures is after?Dazayah Walker 10:49Yeah, so as a company, Quality Ventures isn't looking in specific industries and verticals. I know a lot of people think since you know, we have Quality Control Music, we're looking strictly at music-based companies and startups. And that's not necessarily true. Like I said, our whole thesis is really about us being in a position to add value. But for me, specifically, I really like looking at fintech companies, I think that Fintech is the next market to really boom so paying attention to the trends, paying attention to what people are saying, paying attention to what problems are they need to be solved. So for me personally, the industry of interest to me is fintech.Dan Runcie 11:28And what is it about fintech specifically that sticks out to you or interest you?Dazayah Walker 11:32I like it because I think it's time for a change as far as how money is viewed, how money is moved. Like I know, you probably have seen how crypto, everybody's talking about crypto, and preparation for the metaverse, like, all of those things are happening strategically. And by being aware of what's happening in fintech, you know how the money is moving what the future of money and finances look like. So that you can kind of put yourself in position to not only be educated about it but know how to make your next move when it comes to what the future looks like.Dan Runcie 12:05Right? That makes sense. And I think especially when you look more broadly at the definition of FinTech, and you look at companies like Coinbase, and you look at some of the partnerships that they've had with organizations like the NBA, or even the United Masters, there's clearly an alignment where even if it isn't in the quote-unquote, entertainment landscape, this touches so much. So that's why I think you see…

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    Frank Cooper III Brokered Beyonce-Pepsi’s $50 Million Deal. Here’s Where He Sees Industry Going Next Mar 03, 2022
    Show notes

    Take a quick look at Frank Cooper’s resume and you might think, “what HASN’T he done?” He’s both Berkeley- and Harvard-educated. Coming out of school, Frank cut his teeth with two iconic labels — Motown Records and Def Jam. And most recently, he’s been Chief Marketing Officer for world-renown brands like Pepsi, BlackRock, and breaking news, he just took the same role with VISA. But if you ask Frank, his early years inside the music industry formed the backbone of his illustrious career. It’s during this time period where Frank developed cultural aptitude — and specifically, how to connect larger societal needs with brands he’s led. Frank’s unique pedigree that spans music, entertainment, and finance makes his views on business all the more fascinating. And believe me, Frank has a lot of thoughts about today’s ever-changing music landscape — whether it’s in the inflow of capital or the ripples that Web 3.0 will create. Here’s all the talking points Frank and I covered on today’s episode of Trapital:Episode Highlights[2:12] How Working In The Music Industry Laid The Foundation For Frank’s Career[6:37] Differences Between Hip Hop and Grunge Rock In The Mid ‘90s[8:15] How O.G. Artists “Set The Table” For Today’s Artist Entrepreneurs [11:56] How Frank Put Together Beyoncé and Pepsi $50 Million Deal [15:45] Frank Reviews The Latest Super Bowl Halftime Show (And Names The Best One Of All Time)[20:35] Helping Blackrock Create A New Purpose Statement Beyond Purely Profit[23:48] How The Big Short Movie Convinced Frank To Join The Financial Industry [26:22] Frank’s Thoughts About NFTs, Metaverse, And Web 3.0[29:37] Early Tech Adoption Among Hip-Hop Artists Over The Years[31:05] Does Frank Own Anything In His Digital Wallet?[34:05] Frank Thinks Some Brands Are Too Early To Web 3.0[37:18] Frank’s Harvard Business Review About Diversity In The Workplace[38:18] Clarence Avant’s Influence On Frank’s Career[43:17] What’s One Of The Best Pieces Of Advice Frank Has Ever Received?Listen: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | SoundCloud | Stitcher | Overcast | Amazon | Google Podcasts | Pocket Casts | RSSHost: Dan Runcie, @RuncieDan, trapital.coGuest: Frank Cooper IIITrapital is home for the business of hip-hop. Gain the latest insights from hip-hop’s biggest players by readingTrapital’s free weekly memo. Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands______________Frank Cooper 0:00 I'm actually not a big believer in traditional financial literacy by itself. I think all the research I've seen suggests that it doesn't change behavior because it's too academic, it's filled with jargon, it's long-form, you know? People's eyes glaze over when you're having the conversation, but I do believe that financial education is absolutely critical.Dan Runcie 0:25 Hey, welcome to the Trapital Podcast. I'm your host and the founder of Trapital, Dan Runcie. This podcast is your place to gain insights from executives in music, media, entertainment, and more, who are taking hip hop culture to the next level. Today's episode is with Frank Cooper, who is just named the new Chief Marketing Officer at Visa. Frank and I recorded this episode before the announcement, so we didn't talk about it here. But I was glad to have Frank on because his experience has been so deep in entertainment, in branding and in marketing. Dating back to his time as an executive at Motown, Def Jam, and then more recently, his time with Pepsi, Buzzfeed and BlackRock. And when you think about his career, it is the perfect combination of understanding brands, what they can learn from the entertainment space and how he's brought that to each sector, which is why it was so relevant to have him on this podcast. We talked about some of the deals he had done with Beyonce and other major artists. We also talked about broader trends with marketing, brands, what they can learn from creators, why financial literacy is so important for Frank and a whole lot more. Had a great time talking with him. Hope you enjoy this one. Here's my chat with Frank Cooper.All right, today, we got Frank Cooper with us, who is a longtime marketing executive, currently CMO at BlackRock, but you started your career in the music industry, which I always love to see. So, it will be great to start there with you first, welcome. It's great to have you. Frank Cooper 2:11 Thanks, Dan. Great to be here.Dan Runcie 2:12 Yeah, it'd be great to start off with the music career piece of it, because you worked at Motown and you worked at Def Jam as well. And you worked at both of those labels at pretty influential times for them. What stands out most to you from that time? What are you most proud of?Frank Cooper 2:26 Wow! Well, you know, first of all, it's funny because people say you came from the music industry, how are you connecting this to what you're doing, whether that was at PepsiCo, or here at BlackRock, and I got to tell you, those are some of the most foundational experiences that have shaped pretty much everything that I've done since. And when I think back to Motown, Motown was, was interesting, because, you know, Motown early on was all about assimilation, right? It's about taking black culture and cultivating it in such a way that it can appeal broadly. You know, and how the music sounds, the way they walk, the way they talk, etc. It gave you Smokey Robinson, Diana Ross, The Jackson 5, and Marvin Gaye. And that worked really well. In the 90s, it became more about how to evolve that. And so, I thought it was a really interesting juncture. And I was really excited to be there because, you know, at that time, people didn't really want to talk about pure assimilation. They want to be authentic to themselves. And so how do you take that Motown ethos and make it work within, you know, the culture of that time. And, you know, at the time we had Boyz II Men, ABC, and Queen Latifah, and it was fascinating to see that I think we're still at that juncture where R&B still trying to find its place, honestly, and we can talk more about that. But I think Motown at that time became a symbol for how to evolve RMB in a way that fit the culture of the day. Def Jam was completely the opposite. And people look back at it. People today think it was inevitable, they think, you know, hip hop's the number one genre across the world and it seems inevitable, but at the time, some people were wondering whether hip hop at the last, you know, there's: Hey, is this a fad or not? And what I loved about it was that those who were in that game, those were at Def Jam at the time; you understood that this was not just about the music, it's about the deep cultural sensibility that actually propelled that whole genre, you know. Doing it on your own, operating outside of the mainstream, overcoming struggle, and teaching people how to overcome struggle. And so, for me, that became like the most invigorating part of being there Def Jam, and you just saw artists come through that at the time were just creating incredible momentum. You know, we had the month of the man with Method Man and Redman, now we had Jay-Z come through Kanye, you know, and DMX. And it was just this massive kind of momentum that kept building and it all for me at least reinforced this idea of them at their best. They're teaching people how to overcome struggle. And by the mid-90s, what I thought was the most interesting law and that's probably why they in the history of music, one of the more interesting time periods because you had the flannel shirts up in Seattle, the grunge movement happening. And that was had a lot of momentum, and you had hip hop, and you look at the trajectory of those two genres; they went completely in the opposite direction. And grunge was purely about suburban angst, you know, you know, like: Oh, my God, you know, I don't have meaning in you know, what do I do? And I'm not trying to belittle it, but that's kind of where the center of gravity was. And meanwhile hip hop I was like, how do we win, despite the fact that the mainstream has their foot out trying to trip us up? How do we win? How do we get past it? How do we overcome struggle? How do we do it on our own? And to me, that's what I remember more than anything else. And then finally, the artists that I've connected with the most, were the ones that actually embraced that the most, I loved Chuck D and Public Enemy, you know, and took the Public enemy to me, you know, representative, probably the more extreme version of that. I love Jay-Z, and how can you not love Jay-Z and what he's accomplished? And then some people may, you know, Kanye West, Kanye is Kanye. But Kanye, to me is genius. Because Kanye was able to change our sensibility of what hip hop could be, you know, at that time. He was using music sources that others weren't using, he was using voice in a different way. The lyrics were not as combative as some others, they gave expanded the universal what was possible in hip hop. And I think Kanye played a central role in that. And so, I really have a lot of respect for him and what he did at that time for Def Jam, and I've always carried it with me.Dan Runcie 6:37 That piece about the artists specifically in the grunge era and in hip hop at that same time, I think it's so key because when people talk a lot about Gen X and Generation X, I think the first thought that may go to people's minds is not just grunge with thinking of the image of Kurt Cobain, or you know, something a Billy Corgan from The Smashing Pumpkins, or one of those in all of what they embodied. But on the other side of that ice cube, Dre and Snoop Dogg are also Gen X and have a very different vibe in terms of what they wanted their music to represent. Not that angst isn't something that they didn't have in their young 20s as well. But it was a very different way of communicating their reality, their experience, and I think people don't always necessarily connect that when they talk about Gen X, at least it in a mainstream way. Frank Cooper 7:27 No, Dan, I think that’s exactly right. And, and you know, what's fascinating is that they both were, both those genres, were tackling the same problem, right? They both looked out and said: Man, these traditional institutions are kind of failing us. I can't rely on them as much as I used to. The definition of success that's been put out there, that's something that I adhere to. They were fighting against the same things, but they took two different paths. And I personally believe that the reason, one of the reasons why hip hop prevailed in that is because it helped you to move forward, you know. If you were, it was invigorating, it would inspire you to try to move forward, not to wallow in any kind of sadness. And I think there's value in that too. But it was about: Okay, it is what it is. Now, how do we move forward? Yeah, make it happen on your own. And they did it not only in the lyrics, they did it in the entirety of their behavior. You know, that's when you started to see the artists become entrepreneurs, you started to see them actually extend their brand and to other businesses. And they built an enterprise, each of these ones of those that were successful to build an enterprise based on the music. And that, to me has become the blueprint, a blueprint for how artists are thinking about it today. Even if you fast forward to this current line. I've never seen this much money flow into music, you know, investors, now buying out catalogs, and we're part of that too, we announce a recent partnership with influence media, Lylette Pisarro and René McLean. But I've never seen this much money flow into music. But to me, it's an extension of what hip hop started, which is there is no inauthenticity in. You're getting paid, you can get paid, you can cash a check, you can extend your business in a variety of ways, and still remain true to yourself. And I think many people today who are reaping the benefits of that should look back to the early days of hip hop and fake and thank those artists. Dan Runcie 9:21 And I think that speaks a lot to your career as well. Because you were able to take your experience. You saw the potential of what these artists could do with their brands. And then you were able to work with a lot of the brands themselves to help bring those artists to the forefront and be: Hey, you can help tell the story for this brand. We can help augment not just what you're doing, but help this brand do it as well. And especially in that time in the 2000s- 2010s, we started to see more, and more that you're at the forefront for so much of that.Frank Cooper 9:50 Yeah, you know, one thing that always bothered me when I saw celebrity sponsorships and endorsements and advertisements, it was purely transactional. People would say, you know: I'll write a check to these artists and put them in my commercial. And we'll have the most beautiful drink shot and this commercial, they're like: Oh, closer, closer, closer here, beautiful. We've captured it, we won. But most fans and consumers, they understand that game. And they're like: You know what, I'm glad that ours cut that check, beautiful thing, and I'm happy for that. But I don't believe there's any real connection between that artist and the brand or that product. And therefore, that was completely wasted money. And so, the angle that I took when I took it is that I knew that virtually every celebrity that I've ever met, they all have their own aspirations. They want to do certain things that they cannot do within their current industries, there's always an artist, a filmmaker who wants to make a certain kind of film that they can't make. There’s an artist that wants to do a certain song or put it out in a certain way that they can't do, or they want to extend into new areas. And so, I spent most of my time trying to understand: What are their aspirations? What are they trying to accomplish that they can't accomplish to their own ecosystem? And found that connection point to what we wanted to do. And to me that was the unlock, is like, if I can find that shared aspiration, then I can start to express shared values, shared experiences, a shared worldview that was true. And to me, if you can capture that you don't always win on it. But if you can capture that, that's gold. And I tried to do that across, you know, as many artists as I could.Dan Runcie 11:25 Yeah. And I think even that breakdown that you had, you're seeing more of the good examples. Now just seeing some of the great deals that come through, you're still seeing some of the ones that you may shake your head out, whether it's the Instagram posts, or they're just getting a check for something. But in general, you're starting to see more of the long-term value add. And I feel like the Beyonce deal that you had done with Pepsi specifically, that feels like one that falls more in line with there's a longer-term opportunity here to really highlight and tell that story.Frank Cooper 11:56 Yeah, you know, it's funny, because when I first started having the conversations with Beyonce and her team, I was like: Okay, this is a long shot, you know. Beyonce was very particular, and rightly, and, you know, reluctant to do anything that didn't fit what she truly believed and didn't fit her values. So, I spent a lot of time with the team trying to understand what they wanted to accomplish. And you know, her part of her genius, I think she's genius on many levels, but part of it is, she understood that she wanted to release things in ways that artists have not done before. And she wanted to creat…

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