Technology

Topline

The #1 podcast for founders, operators, and investors in B2B tech. Tune in every week to hear Sam Jacobs, AJ Bruno and Asad Zaman discuss and debate the trends, news, and developments impacting the B2B tech world. Enjoy the hot takes, strong opinions, and dry humor.

Latest Episodes:

E99: How GTM Revenue Leaders Are Operationalizing AI for Growth with Kyle Norton of Owner.com Mar 09, 2025

Show notes

AI is revolutionizing the way revenue teams operate, but how much of the hype is real? In this episode of Topline, Sam, AJ, and Asad are joined by Kyle Norton to dive deep into how AI is actually being used in go-to-market strategies. They explore the balance between centralized AI tools and individual adoption, the impact of AI on productivity, and whether AI is leveling the playing field or widening the gap between top and bottom performers. The conversation also touches on the evolving role of ARR in a world shifting toward usage-based pricing, the importance of execution as a company's true competitive advantage, and how leadership teams can effectively communicate vision and strategy without falling into bureaucratic traps.

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New episodes of Topline drop every Sunday with new Topline Spotlight mini-episodes every Thursday. Subscribe to never miss an episode.

Stay ahead with the latest industry developments, emerging go-to-market trends, and valuable benchmarking data. Subscribe to Topline Newsletter for GTM insights from Asad Zaman every Thursday.

Tune into The Revenue Leadership Podcast with Kyle Norton every Wednesday. He dives deep into the strategies and tactics that drive success as a revenue leader, featuring real operators like Jason Lemkins of SaaStr, Stevie Case of Vanta, and Ron Gabrisko of Databricks.

Your're invited! Join the free Topline Slack channel to connect with 600+ revenue leaders, share insights, and keep the conversation going beyond the podcast!

Key Chapters:

(00:00) - Introduction and Welcome (02:46) - Personal Updates and Market Reflections (05:58) - The Impact of AI on Work (12:32) - Operationalizing AI in Business (17:57) - Balancing Centralization and Individual Creativity (22:44) - Quantifying AI's Impact (26:57) - Deep Research and AI Applications (33:14) - The Future of ARR and Revenue Models (40:26) - Understanding Usage-Based Pricing (43:10) - Valuation and Revenue Streams (46:05) - Communicating Business Value (49:47) - The Role of Values in Organizations (56:30) - Balancing Structure and Flexibility (01:01:44) - The Importance of Operating Systems (01:07:25) - Personal Motivations and Chips on Shoulders

SPOTLIGHT: Alon Talmor, CEO of Ask-AI, on Why Most AI Solutions Fail to Prove Their Worth Mar 06, 2025

Show notes

The AI market is noisy, but real business value is hard to prove. In this episode, Alon Talmor, CEO of Ask-AI, tackles the biggest challenge in AI adoption—demonstrating measurable ROI. He shares why many AI solutions fail to justify their cost, how Ask AI approaches value-driven AI, and what businesses should consider before investing.

Thanks for tuning in! Want more content from Pavilion?

New episodes of Topline drop every Sunday with new Topline Spotlight mini-episodes every Thursday. Subscribe to never miss an episode.

Stay ahead with the latest industry developments, emerging go-to-market trends, and valuable benchmarking data. Subscribe to Topline Newsletter for expert insights from Asad Zaman every Thursday.

Your're invited! Join the free Topline Slack channel to connect with 600+ revenue leaders, share insights, and keep the conversation going beyond the podcast!

Key chapters:

(00:00) - Introduction to Alon Talmor and Ask.ai (02:50) - The Evolution of AI and Its Impact on B2B Customer Experience (06:04) - Challenges in Differentiating AI Solutions (08:54) - The Importance of Value Selling in AI (11:48) - Measuring ROI and Productivity in AI (14:58) - Future Trends in AI and Customer Experience (18:09) - Consolidation of Tools and Final Thoughts

E98: Ryan Burke on Zilla Security's $175M Aquisition and the Realities of M&A Mar 02, 2025

Show notes

In this episode of Topline, we sit down with Ryan Burke, VP of Sales at CyberArk (former VP of Sales at Zilla Security), to dive deep into the $175 million acquisition of Zilla. Ryan shares what it's really like to navigate an exit in today's market—from the unexpected nature of M&A deals to the grueling due diligence process and the tough decisions that founders and executives face. We also explore the evolving cybersecurity landscape, why big platforms are scooping up smaller companies earlier, and how AI is both a threat and an opportunity in the industry. Plus, we discuss the power of trusted networks in sales, whether the "Rolodex hire" is making a comeback, and how partnerships are shaping go-to-market strategies.

Thanks for tuning in! Want more content from Pavilion?

New episodes of Topline drop every Sunday with new Topline Spotlight mini-episodes every Thursday. Subscribe to never miss an episode.

Stay ahead with the latest industry developments, emerging go-to-market trends, and valuable benchmarking data. Subscribe to Topline Newsletter for GTM insights from Asad Zaman every Thursday.

Your're invited! Join the free Topline Slack channel to connect with 600+ revenue leaders, share insights, and keep the conversation going beyond the podcast!

Key Chapters:

(00:00) - The Exciting Exit of Zilla Security

(07:40) - Navigating the Acquisition Process

(16:19) - The Impact of Market Conditions on Startups

(25:04) - Sales Team Dynamics During Transitions

(32:32) - Trends in Cybersecurity and AI's Role

(35:20) - Navigating Cybersecurity Challenges

(38:38) - Mergers and Acquisitions in Cybersecurity

(40:32) - The Impact of AI on Cybersecurity

(43:14) - The Role of Trusted Networks in Sales

(49:06) - Innovative Partnerships and Their Importance

(01:00:01) - Effective Communication in Professional Settings

SPOTLIGHT: Kyle Lacy of Jellyfish on Improving Pipeline Quality and Forecasting Predictability Feb 27, 2025

Show notes

How do you build a revenue engine that doesn't just generate pipeline—but generates the right pipeline? In this episode, Kyle Lacy, CMO of Jellyfish, shares how his team tackled one of the biggest challenges in B2B go-to-market: pipeline predictability.

In this episode of Topline Spotlight, Kyle explains why traditional metrics like Stage 1 pipeline weren't cutting it, how Jellyfish revamped its approach with deeper segmentation and leading indicators, and the impact of launching a Pipeline Council to align sales and marketing around quality, not just volume. Sam, Asad, and Kyle also touch on the biggest forecasting mistakes GTM teams make, why tracking pipeline per rep, source, and channel is a game-changer, how AI is reshaping marketing strategy, and what it takes to be a great CMO in 2025.

Are you being paid what you're worth? Help us refresh Pavilion's industry-standard compensation report for 2025 by taking our anonymous survey at joinpavilion.com/comp and get early access to the results!

Thanks for tuning in! Want more content from Pavilion?

New episodes of Topline drop every Sunday with new Topline Spotlight mini-episodes every Thursday. Subscribe to never miss an episode.

Stay ahead with the latest industry developments, emerging go-to-market trends, and valuable benchmarking data. Subscribe to Topline Newsletter for expert insights from Asad Zaman every Thursday.

Your're invited! Join the free Topline Slack channel to connect with 600+ revenue leaders, share insights, and keep the conversation going beyond the podcast!

Key chapters:

(00:00) - Introduction to Top Line Spotlight

(02:20) - Overview of Jellyfish and Its Purpose

(04:15) - Addressing Challenges with Leading Indicators

(09:50) - The Shift to Marketing for Engineers

(11:42) - The Role of AI in Modern Marketing

(16:22) - Inspiration and Closing Thoughts

E97: Dead or Alive? The Great Outbound Sales Debate Feb 23, 2025

Show notes

Is outbound sales really dead, or are we just doing it wrong? In this episode of Topline, AJ and Asad dive into one of the most debated topics in B2B sales—whether outbound still works in today's market. Asad argues that companies with strong product-market fit can still crush outbound, while AJ pushes back, saying it's no longer the best way to scale. They break down cold call connect rates, changing sales tactics, and why partner-led growth and brand marketing are taking center stage.

Thanks for tuning in! Want more content from Pavilion?

New episodes of Topline drop every Sunday with new Topline Spotlight mini-episodes every Thursday. Subscribe to never miss an episode.

Stay ahead with the latest industry developments, emerging go-to-market trends, and valuable benchmarking data. Subscribe to Topline Newsletter for GTM insights from Asad Zaman every Thursday.

Your're invited! Join the free Topline Slack channel to connect with 600+ revenue leaders, share insights, and keep the conversation going beyond the podcast!

Key Chapters:

(00:00) - Introduction

(05:00) - Board Meeting Insights and Dynamics

(15:08) - Investor Sentiment and Market Challenges

(19:56) - The State of Outbound Sales

(30:12) - Debating Outbound Sales Effectiveness

(34:06) - The Evolution of Status Symbols in Tech

(39:33) - Shifting Metrics of Success

(43:13) - The Changing Landscape of Startup Equity

(50:29) - The Life's Work Mentality vs. Exit Strategy

(56:27) - The Role of Human Interaction in AI

(01:00:27) - Lessons from Recent Failures

SPOTLIGHT: Shensi Ding of Merge on the High-Stakes Search for a Stage-Appropriate CRO Feb 20, 2025

Show notes

Hiring a CRO is one of the most high-stakes decisions a founder can make—especially when a company is transitioning from SMB to enterprise sales. In this episode of Topline Spotlight, Shensi Ding, Co-Founder of Merge, shares her experience navigating the search for a stage-appropriate revenue leader after raising their Series B in 2022. She breaks down the challenges of finding a CRO who wasn't just impressive on paper but could actually build a disciplined enterprise sales motion, adapt to Merge's intense culture, and help scale the company upmarket.

Catch new episodes of Topline Spotlight every Thursday and full episodes of Topline every Sunday.

Want more from Pavilion?

Subscribe to Topline Newsletter written and edited by Asad Zaman.

Join the free public Topline Slack channel to engage with hosts, guests, and other listeners.

Listen to The Revenue Leadership Podcast with Kyle Norton every Wednesday.

E96: The B2B Marketing Identity Crisis Feb 16, 2025

Show notes

In this episode, Sam Jacobs, Asad Zaman, and AJ Bruno break down a viral LinkedIn post that sparked a heated debate about the role of B2B marketing in go-to-market strategy. Has marketing become too focused on pipeline at the expense of brand? Are CMOs being pushed out in favor of CROs? The team explores how marketing's role is evolving, the tension between short-term revenue goals and long-term brand building, and what leaders can do to prove marketing's strategic value.

Want more Topline by Pavilion? Join the Topline Slack channel to engage with hosts, guests, and other listeners and subscribe to Topline Newsletter.

SPOTLIGHT: How Josh Guttman Landed Investors for SELLIT9 by Being Himself Feb 13, 2025

Show notes

Fundraising isn't just sales—something Josh Guttman, co-founder and CEO of SELLIT9, learned the hard way. After spending years in SaaS sales and leadership, including a 12-year run at Salesforce, Josh thought his natural ability to pitch and build relationships would give him an edge in raising capital. But he quickly discovered that VCs don't want to be sold—they want to believe.

In this episode of Topline Spotlight, Josh shares his journey from seasoned sales leader to first-time founder, the unexpected feedback that forced him to rethink his approach, and how he ultimately closed his pre-seed round by striking the right balance between confidence, storytelling, and authenticity.

Catch new episodes of Topline Spotlight every Thursday and full episodes of Topline every Sunday.

Want more from Pavilion?

Subscribe to Topline Newsletter written and edited by Asad Zaman.

Join the free public Topline Slack channel to engage with hosts, guests, and other listeners.

Listen to The Revenue Leadership Podcast with Kyle Norton every Wednesday.

E95: Growth vs. Efficiency in 2025 Feb 09, 2025

Show notes

In this episode, hosts Sam, AJ, and Asad dive into the strategic choices behind building teams in Latin America, focusing on compensation arbitrage and offshoring. They offer guidance for junior talent in North America, who now face competition from equally skilled and cost-effective professionals abroad, all while navigating the impact of AI on traditional roles. The conversation also tackles the challenge of hiring sales reps for complex deals and whether AI can handle routine tasks, freeing up sales talent to focus on creativity and strategic deal-making. Finally, the hosts discuss OpenAI's Deep Research release, exploring how it might be integrated into products and the operational benefits it could bring to businesses.

Want more Topline by Pavilion? Join the Topline Slack channel to engage with hosts, guests, and other listeners and subscribe to Topline Newsletter.

SPOTLIGHT: Co-CEO Alina Vandenberghe on Taking Over Marketing to Scale Demand at Chili Piper Feb 06, 2025

Show notes

In this episode of Topline Spotlight, hosts Sam Jacobs and Asad Zaman sit down with Alina Vandenberg, co-CEO of Chili Piper, to discuss the significant challenges she faced and overcame in her dual role as acting CMO. Alina delves into the complexities of scaling a rapidly growing company while maintaining a cohesive marketing strategy. She shares how she tackled the challenge of aligning data-driven marketing efforts with business goals, utilizing tools like Snowflake to enhance targeted outreach. Alina also addresses the creative hurdles of standing out in a saturated market, revealing how she employs humor and provocation to engage audiences effectively.

Catch new episodes of Topline Spotlight every Thursday and full episodes of Topline every Sunday.

Want more from Pavilion?

Subscribe to Topline Newsletter written and edited by Asad Zaman.

Join the free public Topline Slack channel to engage with hosts, guests, and other listeners.

Listen to The Revenue Leadership Podcast with Kyle Norton every Wednesday.