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The Rollup

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Crypto's New Valuation Frameworks with Jordi Alexander and Sam Kazemian Dec 16, 2024

Show notes

For today's episode, we are discussing the evolving frameworks for understanding value in the crypto markets, with the goal of answering the following:

How do we value digital assets in an ecosystem that's constantly evolving?

We were joined with industry veterans Jordi Alexander and Sam Kazemian who both revealed fascinating insights in how we should think about crypto valuations.

Sam introduces a framework that challenges traditional categories, especially on ETH, the asset. By separating assets into "sovereign commodities" and "labor-representing tokens," he makes the claim that there are really only two types of tokens. Ethereum's position was highly debated here, as Sam thinks the Ethereum community has to rethink the way it is building the narrative for ETH the asset.

Jordi brought up the ideas of "community money" with different types of assets, and how Solana and Dogecoin have certain properties specifically. These aren't just speculative assets, but complex ecosystems driven by unique social dynamics. Jordi's insights on community engagement and credible neutrality add crucial depth to this perspective.

We also touched on VCs, unlocks, inflation, and how provenance really impacts the staying power of crypto assets.

Join us for an insightful conversation into these new crypto asset frameworks and discover how they might reshape our understanding of value in the digital age.

P.S. We've launched The Rollup Edge for our dedicated listeners: early episode access, podcast transcripts, ad-free listening on a custom RSS feed, and a members lounge all for $14/month.

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Join The Rollup Edge: https://members.therollup.co

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𝗗𝗜𝗦𝗖𝗟𝗔𝗜𝗠𝗘𝗥: 𝘐𝘯𝘷𝘦𝘴𝘵𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘪𝘯 𝘤𝘳𝘺𝘱𝘵𝘰𝘤𝘶𝘳𝘳𝘦𝘯𝘤𝘺 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘋𝘦𝘍𝘪 𝘱𝘭𝘢𝘵𝘧𝘰𝘳𝘮𝘴 𝘤𝘰𝘮𝘦𝘴 𝘸𝘪𝘵𝘩 𝘪𝘯𝘩𝘦𝘳𝘦𝘯𝘵 𝘳𝘪𝘴𝘬𝘴 𝘪𝘯𝘤𝘭𝘶𝘥𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘵𝘦𝘤𝘩𝘯𝘪𝘤𝘢𝘭 𝘳𝘪𝘴𝘬, 𝘩𝘶𝘮𝘢𝘯 𝘦𝘳𝘳𝘰𝘳, 𝘱𝘭𝘢𝘵𝘧𝘰𝘳𝘮 𝘧𝘢𝘪𝘭𝘶𝘳𝘦 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘮𝘰𝘳𝘦. 𝘈𝘵 𝘤𝘦𝘳𝘵𝘢𝘪𝘯 𝘱𝘰𝘪𝘯𝘵𝘴 𝘵𝘩𝘳𝘰𝘶𝘨𝘩𝘰𝘶𝘵 𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘴 𝘤𝘩𝘢𝘯𝘯𝘦𝘭, 𝘸𝘦 𝘮𝘢𝘺 𝘦𝘢𝘳𝘯 𝘢 𝘤𝘰𝘮𝘮𝘪𝘴𝘴𝘪𝘰𝘯 𝘰𝘳 𝘧𝘦𝘦 𝘢𝘴 𝘢 𝘴𝘱𝘰𝘯𝘴𝘰𝘳𝘴𝘩𝘪𝘱, 𝘪𝘧 𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘴 𝘪𝘴 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘤𝘢𝘴𝘦 𝘸𝘦 𝘸𝘪𝘭𝘭 𝘢𝘭𝘸𝘢𝘺𝘴 𝘮𝘢𝘬𝘦 𝘴𝘶𝘳𝘦 𝘪𝘵 𝘪𝘴 𝘤𝘭𝘦𝘢𝘳. 𝘞𝘦 𝘢𝘳𝘦 𝘴𝘵𝘳𝘪𝘤𝘵𝘭𝘺 𝘢𝘯 𝘦𝘥𝘶𝘤𝘢𝘵𝘪𝘰𝘯𝘢𝘭 𝘤𝘰𝘯𝘵𝘦𝘯𝘵 𝘱𝘭𝘢𝘵𝘧𝘰𝘳𝘮, 𝘯𝘰𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘸𝘦 𝘰𝘧𝘧𝘦𝘳 𝘪𝘴 𝘧𝘪𝘯𝘢𝘯𝘤𝘪𝘢𝘭 𝘢𝘥𝘷𝘪𝘤𝘦. 𝘞𝘦 𝘢𝘳𝘦 𝘯𝘰𝘵 𝘱𝘳𝘰𝘧𝘦𝘴𝘴𝘪𝘰𝘯𝘢𝘭𝘴 𝘰𝘳 𝘭𝘪𝘤𝘦𝘯𝘴𝘦𝘥 𝘢𝘥𝘷𝘪𝘴𝘰𝘳𝘴.

Steven Goldfeder on Arbitrum’s Lore, Orbit Appchain Thesis, and DeFi Renaissance Dec 14, 2024

Show notes

In today’s video, we are joined by Steven Goldfeder to discuss scaling Ethereum. Steven Goldfeder joins us to examine Ethereum scaling through Arbitrum's journey - from Princeton research paper to production infrastructure. We'll analyze Orbit's technical architecture, which enables customizable chain deployments, and evaluate their "community source" licensing approach. The discussion explores both opportunities and challenges in their vision of interconnected chain networks. This conversation cuts through the hype to examine how academic research translates into real-world blockchain infrastructure. Join The Rollup Edge: https://members.therollup.co Website: https://therollup.co/ Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1P6ZeYd.. Podcast: https://therollup.co/category/podcast Follow us on X: https://www.x.com/therollupco Follow Rob on X: https://www.x.com/robbie_rollup Follow Andy on X: https://www.x.com/ayyyeandy Join our TG group: https://t.me/+8ARkR_YZixE5YjBh The Rollup Disclosures: https://therollup.co/the-rollup-discl 𝗗𝗜𝗦𝗖𝗟𝗔𝗜𝗠𝗘𝗥: 𝘐𝘯𝘷𝘦𝘴𝘵𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘪𝘯 𝘤𝘳𝘺𝘱𝘵𝘰𝘤𝘶𝘳𝘳𝘦𝘯𝘤𝘺 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘋𝘦𝘍𝘪 𝘱𝘭𝘢𝘵𝘧𝘰𝘳𝘮𝘴 𝘤𝘰𝘮𝘦𝘴 𝘸𝘪𝘵𝘩 𝘪𝘯𝘩𝘦𝘳𝘦𝘯𝘵 𝘳𝘪𝘴𝘬𝘴 𝘪𝘯𝘤𝘭𝘶𝘥𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘵𝘦𝘤𝘩𝘯𝘪𝘤𝘢𝘭 𝘳𝘪𝘴𝘬, 𝘩𝘶𝘮𝘢𝘯 𝘦𝘳𝘳𝘰𝘳, 𝘱𝘭𝘢𝘵𝘧𝘰𝘳𝘮 𝘧𝘢𝘪𝘭𝘶𝘳𝘦 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘮𝘰𝘳𝘦. 𝘈𝘵 𝘤𝘦𝘳𝘵𝘢𝘪𝘯 𝘱𝘰𝘪𝘯𝘵𝘴 𝘵𝘩𝘳𝘰𝘶𝘨𝘩𝘰𝘶𝘵 𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘴 𝘤𝘩𝘢𝘯𝘯𝘦𝘭, 𝘸𝘦 𝘮𝘢𝘺 𝘦𝘢𝘳𝘯 𝘢 𝘤𝘰𝘮𝘮𝘪𝘴𝘴𝘪𝘰𝘯 𝘰𝘳 𝘧𝘦𝘦 𝘢𝘴 𝘢 𝘴𝘱𝘰𝘯𝘴𝘰𝘳𝘴𝘩𝘪𝘱, 𝘪𝘧 𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘴 𝘪𝘴 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘤𝘢𝘴𝘦 𝘸𝘦 𝘸𝘪𝘭𝘭 𝘢𝘭𝘸𝘢𝘺𝘴 𝘮𝘢𝘬𝘦 𝘴𝘶𝘳𝘦 𝘪𝘵 𝘪𝘴 𝘤𝘭𝘦𝘢𝘳. 𝘞𝘦 𝘢𝘳𝘦 𝘴𝘵𝘳𝘪𝘤𝘵𝘭𝘺 𝘢𝘯 𝘦𝘥𝘶𝘤𝘢𝘵𝘪𝘰𝘯𝘢𝘭 𝘤𝘰𝘯𝘵𝘦𝘯𝘵 𝘱𝘭𝘢𝘵𝘧𝘰𝘳𝘮, 𝘯𝘰𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘸𝘦 𝘰𝘧𝘧𝘦𝘳 𝘪𝘴 𝘧𝘪𝘯𝘢𝘯𝘤𝘪𝘢𝘭 𝘢𝘥𝘷𝘪𝘤𝘦. 𝘞𝘦 𝘢𝘳𝘦 𝘯𝘰𝘵 𝘱𝘳𝘰𝘧𝘦𝘴𝘴𝘪𝘰𝘯𝘢𝘭𝘴 𝘰𝘳 𝘭𝘪𝘤𝘦𝘯𝘴𝘦𝘥 𝘢𝘥𝘷𝘪𝘴𝘰𝘳𝘴.

Why Based Rollups Are Ethereum's Best Bet with Sam Battenally Dec 12, 2024

Show notes

For today's episode, were taking a deep dive into based rollups to answer the following question: Could the next breakthrough in Ethereum scaling come from working with the network rather than around it? While most rollup solutions build separate consensus layers, an intriguing new approach called based rollups takes a different path – leveraging Ethereum's existing validator network to sequence blocks. Rather than creating parallel consensus mechanisms, based rollups tap directly into Ethereum's established validator set. This creates a more cohesive ecosystem where rollups share both infrastructure and security. The Rise team is pioneering this approach with innovations like parallel EVM engines and versioned Merkle trees. Their solution becomes particularly compelling as more based rollups join the ecosystem, and better composability properties are unlocked. The benefits compound naturally – each new participant contributes to shared security costs and improves liquidity efficiency. This network effect, combined with the emergence of the "GigaGas era," could enable entirely new categories of blockchain applications. Enjoy. Join The Rollup Edge: https://members.therollup.co Website: https://therollup.co/ Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1P6ZeYd.. Podcast: https://therollup.co/category/podcast Follow us on X: https://www.x.com/therollupco Follow Rob on X: https://www.x.com/robbie_rollup Follow Andy on X: https://www.x.com/ayyyeandy Join our TG group: https://t.me/+8ARkR_YZixE5YjBh The Rollup Disclosures: https://therollup.co/the-rollup-discl 𝗗𝗜𝗦𝗖𝗟𝗔𝗜𝗠𝗘𝗥: 𝘐𝘯𝘷𝘦𝘴𝘵𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘪𝘯 𝘤𝘳𝘺𝘱𝘵𝘰𝘤𝘶𝘳𝘳𝘦𝘯𝘤𝘺 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘋𝘦𝘍𝘪 𝘱𝘭𝘢𝘵𝘧𝘰𝘳𝘮𝘴 𝘤𝘰𝘮𝘦𝘴 𝘸𝘪𝘵𝘩 𝘪𝘯𝘩𝘦𝘳𝘦𝘯𝘵 𝘳𝘪𝘴𝘬𝘴 𝘪𝘯𝘤𝘭𝘶𝘥𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘵𝘦𝘤𝘩𝘯𝘪𝘤𝘢𝘭 𝘳𝘪𝘴𝘬, 𝘩𝘶𝘮𝘢𝘯 𝘦𝘳𝘳𝘰𝘳, 𝘱𝘭𝘢𝘵𝘧𝘰𝘳𝘮 𝘧𝘢𝘪𝘭𝘶𝘳𝘦 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘮𝘰𝘳𝘦. 𝘈𝘵 𝘤𝘦𝘳𝘵𝘢𝘪𝘯 𝘱𝘰𝘪𝘯𝘵𝘴 𝘵𝘩𝘳𝘰𝘶𝘨𝘩𝘰𝘶𝘵 𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘴 𝘤𝘩𝘢𝘯𝘯𝘦𝘭, 𝘸𝘦 𝘮𝘢𝘺 𝘦𝘢𝘳𝘯 𝘢 𝘤𝘰𝘮𝘮𝘪𝘴𝘴𝘪𝘰𝘯 𝘰𝘳 𝘧𝘦𝘦 𝘢𝘴 𝘢 𝘴𝘱𝘰𝘯𝘴𝘰𝘳𝘴𝘩𝘪𝘱, 𝘪𝘧 𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘴 𝘪𝘴 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘤𝘢𝘴𝘦 𝘸𝘦 𝘸𝘪𝘭𝘭 𝘢𝘭𝘸𝘢𝘺𝘴 𝘮𝘢𝘬𝘦 𝘴𝘶𝘳𝘦 𝘪𝘵 𝘪𝘴 𝘤𝘭𝘦𝘢𝘳. 𝘞𝘦 𝘢𝘳𝘦 𝘴𝘵𝘳𝘪𝘤𝘵𝘭𝘺 𝘢𝘯 𝘦𝘥𝘶𝘤𝘢𝘵𝘪𝘰𝘯𝘢𝘭 𝘤𝘰𝘯𝘵𝘦𝘯𝘵 𝘱𝘭𝘢𝘵𝘧𝘰𝘳𝘮, 𝘯𝘰𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘸𝘦 𝘰𝘧𝘧𝘦𝘳 𝘪𝘴 𝘧𝘪𝘯𝘢𝘯𝘤𝘪𝘢𝘭 𝘢𝘥𝘷𝘪𝘤𝘦. 𝘞𝘦 𝘢𝘳𝘦 𝘯𝘰𝘵 𝘱𝘳𝘰𝘧𝘦𝘴𝘴𝘪𝘰𝘯𝘢𝘭𝘴 𝘰𝘳 𝘭𝘪𝘤𝘦𝘯𝘴𝘦𝘥 𝘢𝘥𝘷𝘪𝘴𝘰𝘳𝘴.

How To Become The Best Crypto Investor Of All Time with Santiago Santos Dec 10, 2024

Show notes

Beyond protocols and price charts, today's episode dives into navigating crypto as an investor, builder, and human being.

Our conversation with Santi spans from deeply personal insights on mental health and finding meaning, to why crypto remains one of today's most transformative industries. At its core is a powerful message about belief - the conviction that you can excel in your chosen path, especially in a space where merit trumps credentials.

But thriving in crypto isn't just about technical skills or market timing. It's a psychological game that demands emotional resilience, the ability to learn from mistakes, and lifestyle choices that support long-term success.

We explore how memes drive adoption, the crypto-AI convergence, and why cases like Ripple's success signal a potential retail return. For Santi, crypto transcends investment - it's a socioeconomic revolution that demands both practical wisdom and a vision for transforming business and society.

This episode connects personal growth with practical investing, while never losing sight of crypto's bigger promise.

Join us as we unpack lessons from someone who's been in the trenches of this revolutionary space.

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The Rollup Disclosures: https://therollup.co/the-rollup-discl

How Fast Confirmations Will Improve Rollup UX with Ben Fisch and Matt Pearring Dec 09, 2024

Show notes

Today's episode explores how the rollup-centric vision for Ethereum brought massive scalability gains, but also new challenges - from fragmented liquidity to complex coordination across execution layers.

Enter Espresso and Arbitrum's collaboration, tackling these hurdles head-on. At its core is Espresso's fast confirmation system, enabling rollups to validate transactions with both speed and strong security. This unlocks true interoperability without sacrificing decentralization.

Their work extends to democratizing sequencers, a critical step toward Ethereum's ideals of neutrality and censorship resistance. By making sequencers accountable while maintaining performance, they're showing how rollups can evolve thoughtfully.

The introduction of standards like ERC-7683 for intent-based interoperability demonstrates how small, strategic improvements can have outsized impact. As Arbitrum pushes toward deeper decentralization, their partnership with Espresso exemplifies how modular innovation can advance Ethereum's vision while keeping things practical.

This isn't just about technical upgrades - it's about shaping how rollups will actually work for users and developers in the real world.

A composable future is coming for Ethereum.

Join The Rollup Edge: https://members.therollup.co

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Join our TG group: https://t.me/+8ARkR_YZixE5YjBh

The Rollup Disclosures: https://therollup.co/the-rollup-discl

AggLayer Mainnet Launch Is Coming With Marc Boiron Dec 06, 2024

Show notes

The blockchain landscape is evolving beyond isolated chains and fragmented liquidity. Enter AggLayer - a framework reimagining how rollups and chains interact.

But why does this matter?

AggLayer isn't just another interoperability solution. It's a foundational layer that lets chains share network effects while maintaining their independence. Think of it as the invisible infrastructure that makes cross-chain activity feel native and seamless.

At its core lies pessimistic proofing - a breakthrough that enables secure cross-chain transactions without heavy computational overhead. This means established networks like Polygon POS can integrate seamlessly, bringing their massive user base and liquidity into the broader ecosystem.

The innovation doesn't stop there. With ZK proofs powering sub-5-second cross-chain transactions, AggLayer is setting new standards for speed and trust. Users might never interact with it directly, but they'll feel its impact through faster, cheaper experiences across chains.

Polygon's role here is crucial. Their suite of solutions - from POS to ZK EVM - brings vital liquidity and tooling to AggLayer's foundation. Combined with open-source advances like Plonky3 driving ZK adoption, we're seeing the blueprint for truly unified blockchain ecosystems.

Curious about the future of chain interoperability? Want to understand how projects like Polygon are architecting app-centric experiences?

Join us as we explore AggLayer's pivotal role in shaping what's next.

Join The Rollup Edge: https://members.therollup.co

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Join our TG group: https://t.me/+8ARkR_YZixE5YjBh

The Rollup Disclosures: https://therollup.co/the-rollup-discl

Nick White and Jon Charbonneau on The Rise of Celestia's Native Ecosystem Dec 05, 2024

Show notes

In today's episode, we explore the next evolution of the modular blockchain landscape with Nick White and Jon Charbonneu. Celestia's base layer now supports 21 chains and is pushing sovereign rollups as the next step. As a minimalist data availability focused L1, Celestia has had a big year with a lot yet to come.

Our conversation explores the mechanics behind Celestia's blockchain design, from lazybridging to ZK accounts. We talk about the next evolution of the Celestia roadmap, focused on building a native ecosystem of interoperable rollups. The rise of altVMs, Celestia's recent upgrades, and light nodes were also touched on.

Towards the end, we discuss TIA, the asset, and how it is used in the Celestia ecosystem as well as how Jon thinks about valuing it amongst other base layer assets.

Join The Rollup Edge: https://members.therollup.co

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The Rollup Disclosures: https://therollup.co/the-rollup-discl

Can Elastic Chain Solve Crypto's Biggest Problem? With Alex Gluchowski Dec 03, 2024

Show notes

For today's episode, we dive into Elastic Chain and the core principles of ZK technology. Imagine if interacting across blockchains was as simple as sending an email - no fragmented bridges, no multiple wallets. That's exactly what ZK Sync's Elastic Chain aims to deliver.

At its core, Elastic Chain is built on a powerful premise: scalability, interoperability, and user experience can coexist seamlessly. Through its modular approach, builders can create custom chains with their preferred configurations - from sequencers to data availability models - while maintaining fluid interoperability across the ecosystem.

The momentum is already building, with Abstract, TreasureDAO, and others developing consumer-focused chains within the Elastic Chain framework. The platform empowers builders with true sovereignty, letting them choose whether to opt into shared models while fostering healthy competition with other rollup clusters like Superchain and AggLayer.

But key questions remain:

Do we need another interoperability solution?

How will Elastic Chain compete with existing standards?

When can we expect it to launch?

Join us as we unpack the Elastic Chain story and explore these critical questions.

Join The Rollup Edge: https://members.therollup.co

Website: https://therollup.co/

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The Rollup Disclosures: https://therollup.co/the-rollup-discl

Ed Felten on Arbitrum DAO, Timeboost, and His Newest Research Dec 02, 2024

Show notes

For today's episode, the spotlight is on Arbitrum—not just the L2 you’ve come to know, but a growing network exploring new dimensions of scaling, decentralization, and interoperability.

From innovative concepts like BOLD for permissionless validation to Timeboost’s approach to tackling MEV and decentralized sequencing challenges, there’s a lot to unpack here.

So, Andy sat down with Ed Felten to discuss how Arbitrum’s community, powered by its DAO, has become a proving ground for human coordination at scale. If you add in the technical strides like fast withdrawals and research into decentralized sequencing, it’s clear they’re addressing challenges that resonate across the onchain ecosystem in a true DAO-manner.

Today’s piece takes a deeper look at the latest tech research from Arbitrum DAO and Offchain Labs, balancing the technical details with the broader narrative of why this all matters.

Let’s dive in.

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Max Resnick on Ethereum's Roadmap, Economics, and Alignment Taxes Nov 30, 2024

Show notes

For today's episode, we’re diving into one of the most controversial conversations around Ethereum’s future—the decisions required to create a truly thriving onchain ecosystem. Joined by Max Resnick, we raised key questions about the future of rollups, appchains, and Ethereum’s economic structure. Are rollups helping Ethereum grow, or are they parasitic? Should apps like Uniswap stay on Ethereum L1, or is launching their own chain inevitable? How do we address the growing cost of security while keeping Ethereum accessible and composable for all? Max answered each quite thoroughly. A central theme was the idea of "alignment taxes"—a proposal to share Ethereum’s security costs across apps and rollups proportionally to the value they derive. This concept challenges how we think about onchain value and whether Ethereum can continue relying solely on staking rewards funded by ETH issuance. Could this idea lead to a more sustainable and equitable ecosystem? Or does it risk driving activity to other chains with lower costs? Another major focus was the tension between composability and scalability. Rollups have unlocked incredible potential, but they also create fragmentation. Asynchronous composability and interoperability are improving, but are they enough to match the seamless experience of keeping everything on one chain? Meanwhile, usecase-specific chains like Uniswap’s new chain raise questions about whether Ethereum is providing the tools apps need—or if apps are branching out to secure their own interests as L2s? Finally, we dove into rollup economics and sequencing. Single-sequencer models have been criticized for being extractive and centralizing market power. The discussion explored how ideas like multiple proposers, deterministic ordering, and app-specific sequencing could create fairer systems for users and applications alike. This is a must-watch conversation.

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