Where digital assets and finance converge. Live from the financial capital of the world.
Website: https://therollup.co/
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Where digital assets and finance converge. Live from the financial capital of the world.
Website: https://therollup.co/
Arthur Hayes says US commercial bank balance sheets are up roughly $200 billion and every Fed hike pushes billions more into financial assets like crypto.
Arthur explains why France is the catalyst that forces the next big wave of liquidity. He also dives into the Citrinie why AI agents are the story that re-rates the DeFi protocols still standing since 2020, and why his fund trades everything else to buy more Bitcoin.
Arthur Hayes is the CIO of Maelstrom and co-founder of BitMEX, joining us live at TOKEN2049 Singapore. The Rollup is where the leaders of digital assets and finance converge. Live from the financial capital of the world.
Timestamps:
00:00 Intro
02:21 Hunting For Busted Charts
06:28 The Citrini Report
09:12 Why Alts Disappointed
14:22 The Barbell Portfolio
16:39 Quantum And Address Hygiene
19:06 Zcash As Privacy Hedge
22:45 Sovereign Debt Hunger Games
27:00 Rate Hikes Pump Bitcoin
30:54 Banks Are Printing Now
35:47 Stablecoins Export The Dollar
41:06 France Is The Catalyst
43:52 The Quarterly Refunding Announcement
46:49 Watches, Ferraris And Skiing
53:00 How Much Is Enough
56:01 Is The Ethos Gone
60:39 The FLOP Thesis
Guest Socials:
Arthur Hayes:
X - https://x.com/cryptohayes
Web - https://www.cryptohayes.com
Substack - https://cryptohayes.substack.com/
LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/arthur-hayes-b493b42/
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/cryptohayes/
Partners:
If you run concentrated liquidity positions you know the grind. Price moves, you're out of range, you're rebalancing at, like, 3am. 1inch Aqua lets you take a different approach. You can stack multiple positions on the same token balance instead of babysitting a dozen pools, and your tokens never leave your wallet. Your liquidity stays awake, so you can catch up on your sleep. Check it out at https://1inch.com/aqua
---
Dinari - Over 230 1:1 backed tokenized stocks, ETFs & more with dividends. US-based SEC transfer agent. Available on 5+ chains & via API. https://dinari.com/
---
Space and Time is providing verifiable data infrastructure for onchain finance. A decentralized database, blockchain indexer, and ZK coprocessor in one, giving DeFi protocols,stablecoins, and tokenized assets accurate, provable data.
---
Zama is an open source cryptography company that builds state-of-the-art Fully Homomorphic Encryption (FHE) solutions for blockchain.
Learn more here: https://www.zama.org/
---
๐ช๐ฒ ๐๐ฟ๐ ๐ผ๐๐ฟ ๐ฏ๐ฒ๐๐ ๐๐ผ ๐ฝ๐ฟ๐ผ๐ฑ๐๐ฐ๐ฒ ๐ต๐ถ๐ด๐ต-๐พ๐๐ฎ๐น๐ถ๐๐, ๐ป๐ผ๐ป-๐ฏ๐ถ๐ฎ๐๐ฒ๐ฑ, ๐ฒ๐ฑ๐๐ฐ๐ฎ๐๐ถ๐ผ๐ป๐ฎ๐น ๐ฐ๐ผ๐ป๐๐ฒ๐ป๐ ๐ณ๐ผ๐ฟ ๐๐ต๐ฒ ๐ฑ๐ถ๐ด๐ถ๐๐ฎ๐น ๐ฎ๐๐๐ฒ๐๐ ๐ฒ๐ฐ๐ผ๐๐๐๐๐ฒ๐บ. ๐ฆ๐๐ฝ๐ฝ๐ผ๐ฟ๐ ๐๐ ๐ฏ๐ ๐ฐ๐น๐ถ๐ฐ๐ธ๐ถ๐ป๐ด ๐ฎ๐ป๐ ๐ผ๐ณ ๐๐ต๐ฒ ๐น๐ถ๐ป๐ธ๐ ๐ฏ๐ฒ๐น๐ผ๐ ๐ณ๐ผ๐ฟ ๐ณ๐ฟ๐ฒ๐ฒ ๐ฟ๐ฒ๐๐ผ๐๐ฟ๐ฐ๐ฒ๐:
Website: https://therollup.co/
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1P6ZeYd...
Podcast: https://therollup.co/category/podcast
Follow us on X: https://www.x.com/therollupco
Follow Rob on X: https://x.com/robbieklages
Follow Andy on X: https://x.com/andyyy
Join our TG group: https://t.me/+TsM1CRpWFgk1NGZh
The Rollup Disclosures: https://goodidea.ventures
๐๐๐ฆ๐๐๐๐๐ ๐๐ฅ: ๐๐ฏ๐ท๐ฆ๐ด๐ต๐ช๐ฏ๐จ ๐ช๐ฏ ๐ค๐ณ๐บ๐ฑ๐ต๐ฐ๐ค๐ถ๐ณ๐ณ๐ฆ๐ฏ๐ค๐บ ๐ข๐ฏ๐ฅ ๐๐ฆ๐๐ช ๐ฑ๐ญ๐ข๐ต๐ง๐ฐ๐ณ๐ฎ๐ด ๐ค๐ฐ๐ฎ๐ฆ๐ด ๐ธ๐ช๐ต๐ฉ ๐ช๐ฏ๐ฉ๐ฆ๐ณ๐ฆ๐ฏ๐ต ๐ณ๐ช๐ด๐ฌ๐ด ๐ช๐ฏ๐ค๐ญ๐ถ๐ฅ๐ช๐ฏ๐จ ๐ต๐ฆ๐ค๐ฉ๐ฏ๐ช๐ค๐ข๐ญ ๐ณ๐ช๐ด๐ฌ, ๐ฉ๐ถ๐ฎ๐ข๐ฏ ๐ฆ๐ณ๐ณ๐ฐ๐ณ, ๐ฑ๐ญ๐ข๐ต๐ง๐ฐ๐ณ๐ฎ ๐ง๐ข๐ช๐ญ๐ถ๐ณ๐ฆ ๐ข๐ฏ๐ฅ ๐ฎ๐ฐ๐ณ๐ฆ. ๐๐ต ๐ค๐ฆ๐ณ๐ต๐ข๐ช๐ฏ ๐ฑ๐ฐ๐ช๐ฏ๐ต๐ด ๐ต๐ฉ๐ณ๐ฐ๐ถ๐จ๐ฉ๐ฐ๐ถ๐ต ๐ต๐ฉ๐ช๐ด ๐ค๐ฉ๐ข๐ฏ๐ฏ๐ฆ๐ญ, ๐ธ๐ฆ ๐ฎ๐ข๐บ ๐ฆ๐ข๐ณ๐ฏ ๐ข ๐ค๐ฐ๐ฎ๐ฎ๐ช๐ด๐ด๐ช๐ฐ๐ฏ ๐ฐ๐ณ ๐ง๐ฆ๐ฆ ๐ข๐ด ๐ข ๐ด๐ฑ๐ฐ๐ฏ๐ด๐ฐ๐ณ๐ด๐ฉ๐ช๐ฑ, ๐ช๐ง ๐ต๐ฉ๐ช๐ด ๐ช๐ด ๐ต๐ฉ๐ฆ ๐ค๐ข๐ด๐ฆ ๐ธ๐ฆ ๐ธ๐ช๐ญ๐ญ ๐ข๐ญ๐ธ๐ข๐บ๐ด ๐ฎ๐ข๐ฌ๐ฆ ๐ด๐ถ๐ณ๐ฆ ๐ช๐ต ๐ช๐ด ๐ค๐ญ๐ฆ๐ข๐ณ. ๐๐ฆ ๐ข๐ณ๐ฆ ๐ด๐ต๐ณ๐ช๐ค๐ต๐ญ๐บ ๐ข๐ฏ ๐ฆ๐ฅ๐ถ๐ค๐ข๐ต๐ช๐ฐ๐ฏ๐ข๐ญ ๐ค๐ฐ๐ฏ๐ต๐ฆ๐ฏ๐ต ๐ฑ๐ญ๐ข๐ต๐ง๐ฐ๐ณ๐ฎ, ๐ฏ๐ฐ๐ต๐ฉ๐ช๐ฏ๐จ ๐ธ๐ฆ ๐ฐ๐ง๐ง๐ฆ๐ณ ๐ช๐ด ๐ง๐ช๐ฏ๐ข๐ฏ๐ค๐ช๐ข๐ญ ๐ข๐ฅ๐ท๐ช๐ค๐ฆ. ๐๐ฆ ๐ข๐ณ๐ฆ ๐ฏ๐ฐ๐ต ๐ฑ๐ณ๐ฐ๐ง๐ฆ๐ด๐ด๐ช๐ฐ๐ฏ๐ข๐ญ๐ด ๐ฐ๐ณ ๐ญ๐ช๐ค๐ฆ๐ฏ๐ด๐ฆ๐ฅ ๐ข๐ฅ๐ท๐ช๐ด๐ฐ๐ณ๐ด.
Illia Polosukhin joins us for a session at TOKEN2049 Singapore and explains why NEAR is one of the biggest opportunities in digital assets today.
He says it was designed with quantum computing in mind back in 2018, and anyone can now upgrade their account to post-quantum keys without moving a single asset. The NEAR co-founder explains how NEAR Intents is becoming a market of markets that aggregates crypto venues and now stocks, why he thinks the zero-sum layer one mindset is broken, and how a NEAR account can hold assets across Ethereum, Bitcoin and other chains. He also explains his vision for the endgame of NEAR and what the future look is for agentic finance onchain, on NEAR.
Illia Polosukhin is the Co-Founder and CEO of NEAR Protocol and NEAR AI, and a co-author of the โAttention Is All You Needโ paper that introduced the transformer architecture.
The Rollup is where the leaders of digital assets and finance converge. Live from the financial capital of the world.
00:00 Intro
01:09 NEAR Is Ethereum, Zcash Is Bitcoin?
02:43 Build A Base On Mars Through NEAR
04:18 NEAR Now Aggregates Nasdaq & Equities
07:12 Borrow Against Perps Positions On NEAR(dot)com
08:29 NEAR Designed For Quantum In 2018
10:03 One Button To Go Post-Quantum Now
Everyone wants good execution and access to the best opportunities and Keone Hon says that's why there's no real contradiction between Monad's consumer culture and its institutional liquidity push. He explains why the network effects are only now starting to compound from both directions, why building from scratch over a longer development cycle left them with foundations the core team knows cold, and what that unlocks next: solving MEV and squaring the apparent contradiction between privacy and composability. Ten months into mainnet, his biggest lesson is that speed is everything.
Keone Hon is the Co-Founder of Monad.
The Rollup is where the leaders of digital assets and finance converge. Live from the financial capital of the world.
Timestamps:
00:00 Intro
01:30 Monad Needs Both Sides Of The Barbell
03:45 Keone Refused To Cut Corners From Day One
05:23 Privacy And Composability Cannot Coexist Yet
06:07 Speed Is Everything Lesson From Mainnet
Guest Socials:
Keone Hon X: https://x.com/keoneHD
Monad X: https://x.com/monad
Monad Website: https://app.monad.xyz/
Partners:
If you run concentrated liquidity positions you know the grind. Price moves, you're out of range, you're rebalancing at, like, 3am. 1inch Aqua lets you take a different approach. You can stack multiple positions on the same token balance instead of babysitting a dozen pools, and your tokens never leave your wallet. Your liquidity stays awake, so you can catch up on your sleep. Check it out at https://1inch.com/aqua
---
Dinari - Over 230 1:1 backed tokenized stocks, ETFs & more with dividends. US-based SEC transfer agent. Available on 5+ chains & via API. https://dinari.com/
---
Space and Time is providing verifiable data infrastructure for onchain finance. A decentralized database, blockchain indexer, and ZK coprocessor in one, giving DeFi protocols,stablecoins, and tokenized assets accurate, provable data.
---
Zama is an open source cryptography company that builds state-of-the-art Fully Homomorphic Encryption (FHE) solutions for blockchain.
Learn more here: https://www.zama.org/
---
๐ช๐ฒ ๐๐ฟ๐ ๐ผ๐๐ฟ ๐ฏ๐ฒ๐๐ ๐๐ผ ๐ฝ๐ฟ๐ผ๐ฑ๐๐ฐ๐ฒ ๐ต๐ถ๐ด๐ต-๐พ๐๐ฎ๐น๐ถ๐๐, ๐ป๐ผ๐ป-๐ฏ๐ถ๐ฎ๐๐ฒ๐ฑ, ๐ฒ๐ฑ๐๐ฐ๐ฎ๐๐ถ๐ผ๐ป๐ฎ๐น ๐ฐ๐ผ๐ป๐๐ฒ๐ป๐ ๐ณ๐ผ๐ฟ ๐๐ต๐ฒ ๐ฑ๐ถ๐ด๐ถ๐๐ฎ๐น ๐ฎ๐๐๐ฒ๐๐ ๐ฒ๐ฐ๐ผ๐๐๐๐๐ฒ๐บ. ๐ฆ๐๐ฝ๐ฝ๐ผ๐ฟ๐ ๐๐ ๐ฏ๐ ๐ฐ๐น๐ถ๐ฐ๐ธ๐ถ๐ป๐ด ๐ฎ๐ป๐ ๐ผ๐ณ ๐๐ต๐ฒ ๐น๐ถ๐ป๐ธ๐ ๐ฏ๐ฒ๐น๐ผ๐ ๐ณ๐ผ๐ฟ ๐ณ๐ฟ๐ฒ๐ฒ ๐ฟ๐ฒ๐๐ผ๐๐ฟ๐ฐ๐ฒ๐:
Website: https://therollup.co/
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1P6ZeYd...
Podcast: https://therollup.co/category/podcast
Follow us on X: https://www.x.com/therollupco
Follow Rob on X: https://x.com/robbieklages
Follow Andy on X: https://x.com/andyyy
Join our TG group: https://t.me/+TsM1CRpWFgk1NGZh
The Rollup Disclosures: https://goodidea.ventures
๐๐๐ฆ๐๐๐๐๐ ๐๐ฅ: ๐๐ฏ๐ท๐ฆ๐ด๐ต๐ช๐ฏ๐จ ๐ช๐ฏ ๐ค๐ณ๐บ๐ฑ๐ต๐ฐ๐ค๐ถ๐ณ๐ณ๐ฆ๐ฏ๐ค๐บ ๐ข๐ฏ๐ฅ ๐๐ฆ๐๐ช ๐ฑ๐ญ๐ข๐ต๐ง๐ฐ๐ณ๐ฎ๐ด ๐ค๐ฐ๐ฎ๐ฆ๐ด ๐ธ๐ช๐ต๐ฉ ๐ช๐ฏ๐ฉ๐ฆ๐ณ๐ฆ๐ฏ๐ต ๐ณ๐ช๐ด๐ฌ๐ด ๐ช๐ฏ๐ค๐ญ๐ถ๐ฅ๐ช๐ฏ๐จ ๐ต๐ฆ๐ค๐ฉ๐ฏ๐ช๐ค๐ข๐ญ ๐ณ๐ช๐ด๐ฌ, ๐ฉ๐ถ๐ฎ๐ข๐ฏ ๐ฆ๐ณ๐ณ๐ฐ๐ณ, ๐ฑ๐ญ๐ข๐ต๐ง๐ฐ๐ณ๐ฎ ๐ง๐ข๐ช๐ญ๐ถ๐ณ๐ฆ ๐ข๐ฏ๐ฅ ๐ฎ๐ฐ๐ณ๐ฆ. ๐๐ต ๐ค๐ฆ๐ณ๐ต๐ข๐ช๐ฏ ๐ฑ๐ฐ๐ช๐ฏ๐ต๐ด ๐ต๐ฉ๐ณ๐ฐ๐ถ๐จ๐ฉ๐ฐ๐ถ๐ต ๐ต๐ฉ๐ช๐ด ๐ค๐ฉ๐ข๐ฏ๐ฏ๐ฆ๐ญ, ๐ธ๐ฆ ๐ฎ๐ข๐บ ๐ฆ๐ข๐ณ๐ฏ ๐ข ๐ค๐ฐ๐ฎ๐ฎ๐ช๐ด๐ด๐ช๐ฐ๐ฏ ๐ฐ๐ณ ๐ง๐ฆ๐ฆ ๐ข๐ด ๐ข ๐ด๐ฑ๐ฐ๐ฏ๐ด๐ฐ๐ณ๐ด๐ฉ๐ช๐ฑ, ๐ช๐ง ๐ต๐ฉ๐ช๐ด ๐ช๐ด ๐ต๐ฉ๐ฆ ๐ค๐ข๐ด๐ฆ ๐ธ๐ฆ ๐ธ๐ช๐ญ๐ญ ๐ข๐ญ๐ธ๐ข๐บ๐ด ๐ฎ๐ข๐ฌ๐ฆ ๐ด๐ถ๐ณ๐ฆ ๐ช๐ต ๐ช๐ด ๐ค๐ญ๐ฆ๐ข๐ณ. ๐๐ฆ ๐ข๐ณ๐ฆ ๐ด๐ต๐ณ๐ช๐ค๐ต๐ญ๐บ ๐ข๐ฏ ๐ฆ๐ฅ๐ถ๐ค๐ข๐ต๐ช๐ฐ๐ฏ๐ข๐ญ ๐ค๐ฐ๐ฏ๐ต๐ฆ๐ฏ๐ต ๐ฑ๐ญ๐ข๐ต๐ง๐ฐ๐ณ๐ฎ, ๐ฏ๐ฐ๐ต๐ฉ๐ช๐ฏ๐จ ๐ธ๐ฆ ๐ฐ๐ง๐ง๐ฆ๐ณ ๐ช๐ด ๐ง๐ช๐ฏ๐ข๐ฏ๐ค๐ช๐ข๐ญ ๐ข๐ฅ๐ท๐ช๐ค๐ฆ. ๐๐ฆ ๐ข๐ณ๐ฆ ๐ฏ๐ฐ๐ต ๐ฑ๐ณ๐ฐ๐ง๐ฆ๐ด๐ด๐ช๐ฐ๐ฏ๐ข๐ญ๐ด ๐ฐ๐ณ ๐ญ๐ช๐ค๐ฆ๐ฏ๐ด๐ฆ๐ฅ ๐ข๐ฅ๐ท๐ช๐ด๐ฐ๐ณ๐ด.
Seth Ginns says the market has the tokenization trade backwards: pre-IPO equities are the exciting story, but assets that already trade with deep liquidity, like equities and treasuries, benefit most from 24/7 markets. He and Anthony Pecore of the Franklin Crypto team also talk through the "odd looks" they got launching Benji, why tokenized money market funds are now table stakes, how equities could be split into separate profit pools, and why they think assets will one day live in wallets instead of accounts.
Anthony Pecore is SVP and Director of Digital Asset Management at Franklin Templeton, where he has helped lead its on-chain fund efforts, including the tokenized money market fund Benji, live since 2021. Seth Ginns is CIO at Franklin Crypto and was an equities investor for 18 years before launching a liquid crypto fund in 2020.
The Rollup is where the leaders of digital assets and finance converge. Live from the financial capital of the world.
00:00 Intro
02:06 Institutions Want Real Businesses Not Meme Coins
04:13 Benji Tokenized Money Market Fund Since 2021
06:13 Tokenization Path To Nowhere Is Dead
08:14 Tokenization Starts With Assets Not Apps
10:33 Value Creation Vs Value Capture Debate
13:21 Bet On H100s Short Blackwells Via Tokens
15:27 Autonomous Management Of Capital Explained
17:28 Franklin's 7 Year Asset Management Vision
18:52 AI And Digital Assets Are Complementary Technologies
19:13 The Financial Singularity Has Arrived
Guest Socials:
Seth Ginns X: https://x.com/sethginns
Franklin Templeton X: https://x.com/FTDA_US
Franklin Templeton Website: https://www.franklintempleton.com/
Partners:
If you run concentrated liquidity positions you know the grind. Price moves, you're out of range, you're rebalancing at, like, 3am. 1inch Aqua lets you take a different approach. You can stack multiple positions on the same token balance instead of babysitting a dozen pools, and your tokens never leave your wallet. Your liquidity stays awake, so you can catch up on your sleep. Check it out at https://1inch.com/aqua
---
Dinari - Over 230 1:1 backed tokenized stocks, ETFs & more with dividends. US-based SEC transfer agent. Available on 5+ chains & via API. https://dinari.com/
---
Space and Time is providing verifiable data infrastructure for onchain finance. A decentralized database, blockchain indexer, and ZK coprocessor in one, giving DeFi protocols,stablecoins, and tokenized assets accurate, provable data.
---
Zama is an open source cryptography company that builds state-of-the-art Fully Homomorphic Encryption (FHE) solutions for blockchain.
Learn more here: https://www.zama.org/
---
๐ฆ๐๐ฝ๐ฝ๐ผ๐ฟ๐ ๐๐ ๐ฏ๐ ๐ฐ๐น๐ถ๐ฐ๐ธ๐ถ๐ป๐ด ๐ฎ๐ป๐ ๐ผ๐ณ ๐๐ต๐ฒ ๐น๐ถ๐ป๐ธ๐ ๐ฏ๐ฒ๐น๐ผ๐ ๐ณ๐ผ๐ฟ ๐ณ๐ฟ๐ฒ๐ฒ ๐ฟ๐ฒ๐๐ผ๐๐ฟ๐ฐ๐ฒ๐:
Website: https://therollup.co/
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1P6ZeYd...
Podcast: https://therollup.co/category/podcast
Follow us on X: https://www.x.com/therollupco
Follow Rob on X: https://x.com/robbieklages
Follow Andy on X: https://x.com/andyyy
Join our TG group: https://t.me/+TsM1CRpWFgk1NGZh
The Rollup Disclosures: https://goodidea.ventures
๐๐๐ฆ๐๐๐๐๐ ๐๐ฅ: ๐๐ฏ๐ท๐ฆ๐ด๐ต๐ช๐ฏ๐จ ๐ช๐ฏ ๐ค๐ณ๐บ๐ฑ๐ต๐ฐ๐ค๐ถ๐ณ๐ณ๐ฆ๐ฏ๐ค๐บ ๐ข๐ฏ๐ฅ ๐๐ฆ๐๐ช ๐ฑ๐ญ๐ข๐ต๐ง๐ฐ๐ณ๐ฎ๐ด ๐ค๐ฐ๐ฎ๐ฆ๐ด ๐ธ๐ช๐ต๐ฉ ๐ช๐ฏ๐ฉ๐ฆ๐ณ๐ฆ๐ฏ๐ต ๐ณ๐ช๐ด๐ฌ๐ด ๐ช๐ฏ๐ค๐ญ๐ถ๐ฅ๐ช๐ฏ๐จ ๐ต๐ฆ๐ค๐ฉ๐ฏ๐ช๐ค๐ข๐ญ ๐ณ๐ช๐ด๐ฌ, ๐ฉ๐ถ๐ฎ๐ข๐ฏ ๐ฆ๐ณ๐ณ๐ฐ๐ณ, ๐ฑ๐ญ๐ข๐ต๐ง๐ฐ๐ณ๐ฎ ๐ง๐ข๐ช๐ญ๐ถ๐ณ๐ฆ ๐ข๐ฏ๐ฅ ๐ฎ๐ฐ๐ณ๐ฆ. ๐๐ต ๐ค๐ฆ๐ณ๐ต๐ข๐ช๐ฏ ๐ฑ๐ฐ๐ช๐ฏ๐ต๐ด ๐ต๐ฉ๐ณ๐ฐ๐ถ๐จ๐ฉ๐ฐ๐ถ๐ต ๐ต๐ฉ๐ช๐ด ๐ค๐ฉ๐ข๐ฏ๐ฏ๐ฆ๐ญ, ๐ธ๐ฆ ๐ฎ๐ข๐บ ๐ฆ๐ข๐ณ๐ฏ ๐ข ๐ค๐ฐ๐ฎ๐ฎ๐ช๐ด๐ด๐ช๐ฐ๐ฏ ๐ฐ๐ณ ๐ง๐ฆ๐ฆ ๐ข๐ด ๐ข ๐ด๐ฑ๐ฐ๐ฏ๐ด๐ฐ๐ณ๐ด๐ฉ๐ช๐ฑ, ๐ช๐ง ๐ต๐ฉ๐ช๐ด ๐ช๐ด ๐ต๐ฉ๐ฆ ๐ค๐ข๐ด๐ฆ ๐ธ๐ฆ ๐ธ๐ช๐ญ๐ญ ๐ข๐ญ๐ธ๐ข๐บ๐ด ๐ฎ๐ข๐ฌ๐ฆ ๐ด๐ถ๐ณ๐ฆ ๐ช๐ต ๐ช๐ด ๐ค๐ญ๐ฆ๐ข๐ณ. ๐๐ฆ ๐ข๐ณ๐ฆ ๐ด๐ต๐ณ๐ช๐ค๐ต๐ญ๐บ ๐ข๐ฏ ๐ฆ๐ฅ๐ถ๐ค๐ข๐ต๐ช๐ฐ๐ฏ๐ข๐ญ ๐ค๐ฐ๐ฏ๐ต๐ฆ๐ฏ๐ต ๐ฑ๐ญ๐ข๐ต๐ง๐ฐ๐ณ๐ฎ, ๐ฏ๐ฐ๐ต๐ฉ๐ช๐ฏ๐จ ๐ธ๐ฆ ๐ฐ๐ง๐ง๐ฆ๐ณ ๐ช๐ด ๐ง๐ช๐ฏ๐ข๐ฏ๐ค๐ช๐ข๐ญ ๐ข๐ฅ๐ท๐ช๐ค๐ฆ. ๐๐ฆ ๐ข๐ณ๐ฆ ๐ฏ๐ฐ๐ต ๐ฑ๐ณ๐ฐ๐ง๐ฆ๐ด๐ด๐ช๐ฐ๐ฏ๐ข๐ญ๐ด ๐ฐ๐ณ ๐ญ๐ช๐ค๐ฆ๐ฏ๐ด๐ฆ๐ฅ ๐ข๐ฅ๐ท๐ช๐ด๐ฐ๐ณ๐ด.
Never bet against Elon. Jordan Jefferson says if you can't see us getting to Mars, you're not going to make it, and Dogecoin ends up the currency when we do. He breaks down the DogeOS public testnet going live, shuts down the conspiracy that Elon is pumping Doge, and argues the only memecoin still in the hands of the people might just melt faces and take the whole industry. TJ Miller plays jester throughout, explaining why he roasts a different crypto figure at every conference and what it says about an ecosystem this allergic to laughing at itself.
Jordan Jefferson is the CEO of MyDoge Wallet. TJ Miller is a beloved comedian and actor.
The Rollup is where the leaders of digital assets and finance converge. Live from the financial capital of the world.
Timestamps
00:00 Intro
02:35 The Interplanetary Economy Thesis
04:52 How Close Is Elon Really
07:31 The Funniest Outcome Wins
08:56 Why Crypto Is So Self-Serious
10:05 Why He Roasts Crypto Celebrities
12:55 You Have To Understand It To Joke About It
Guest Socials:
TJ Miller X: https://x.com/nottjmiller
Jordan Jefferson X: https://x.com/MyDogeCEO
DogeOS X: https://x.com/DogeOS
DogeOS Website: https://www.dogeos.com/
Partners:
If you run concentrated liquidity positions you know the grind. Price moves, you're out of range, you're rebalancing at, like, 3am. 1inch Aqua lets you take a different approach. You can stack multiple positions on the same token balance instead of babysitting a dozen pools, and your tokens never leave your wallet. Your liquidity stays awake, so you can catch up on your sleep. Check it out at https://1inch.com/aqua
---
Dinari - Over 230 1:1 backed tokenized stocks, ETFs & more with dividends. US-based SEC transfer agent. Available on 5+ chains & via API. https://dinari.com/
---
Space and Time is providing verifiable data infrastructure for onchain finance. A decentralized database, blockchain indexer, and ZK coprocessor in one, giving DeFi protocols,stablecoins, and tokenized assets accurate, provable data.
---
Zama is an open source cryptography company that builds state-of-the-art Fully Homomorphic Encryption (FHE) solutions for blockchain.
Learn more here: https://www.zama.org/
---
๐ช๐ฒ ๐๐ฟ๐ ๐ผ๐๐ฟ ๐ฏ๐ฒ๐๐ ๐๐ผ ๐ฝ๐ฟ๐ผ๐ฑ๐๐ฐ๐ฒ ๐ต๐ถ๐ด๐ต-๐พ๐๐ฎ๐น๐ถ๐๐, ๐ป๐ผ๐ป-๐ฏ๐ถ๐ฎ๐๐ฒ๐ฑ, ๐ฒ๐ฑ๐๐ฐ๐ฎ๐๐ถ๐ผ๐ป๐ฎ๐น ๐ฐ๐ผ๐ป๐๐ฒ๐ป๐ ๐ณ๐ผ๐ฟ ๐๐ต๐ฒ ๐ฑ๐ถ๐ด๐ถ๐๐ฎ๐น ๐ฎ๐๐๐ฒ๐๐ ๐ฒ๐ฐ๐ผ๐๐๐๐๐ฒ๐บ. ๐ฆ๐๐ฝ๐ฝ๐ผ๐ฟ๐ ๐๐ ๐ฏ๐ ๐ฐ๐น๐ถ๐ฐ๐ธ๐ถ๐ป๐ด ๐ฎ๐ป๐ ๐ผ๐ณ ๐๐ต๐ฒ ๐น๐ถ๐ป๐ธ๐ ๐ฏ๐ฒ๐น๐ผ๐ ๐ณ๐ผ๐ฟ ๐ณ๐ฟ๐ฒ๐ฒ ๐ฟ๐ฒ๐๐ผ๐๐ฟ๐ฐ๐ฒ๐:
Website: https://therollup.co/
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1P6ZeYd...
Podcast: https://therollup.co/category/podcast
Follow us on X: https://www.x.com/therollupco
Follow Rob on X: https://x.com/robbieklages
Follow Andy on X: https://x.com/andyyy
Join our TG group: https://t.me/+TsM1CRpWFgk1NGZh
The Rollup Disclosures: https://goodidea.ventures
๐๐๐ฆ๐๐๐๐๐ ๐๐ฅ: ๐๐ฏ๐ท๐ฆ๐ด๐ต๐ช๐ฏ๐จ ๐ช๐ฏ ๐ค๐ณ๐บ๐ฑ๐ต๐ฐ๐ค๐ถ๐ณ๐ณ๐ฆ๐ฏ๐ค๐บ ๐ข๐ฏ๐ฅ ๐๐ฆ๐๐ช ๐ฑ๐ญ๐ข๐ต๐ง๐ฐ๐ณ๐ฎ๐ด ๐ค๐ฐ๐ฎ๐ฆ๐ด ๐ธ๐ช๐ต๐ฉ ๐ช๐ฏ๐ฉ๐ฆ๐ณ๐ฆ๐ฏ๐ต ๐ณ๐ช๐ด๐ฌ๐ด ๐ช๐ฏ๐ค๐ญ๐ถ๐ฅ๐ช๐ฏ๐จ ๐ต๐ฆ๐ค๐ฉ๐ฏ๐ช๐ค๐ข๐ญ ๐ณ๐ช๐ด๐ฌ, ๐ฉ๐ถ๐ฎ๐ข๐ฏ ๐ฆ๐ณ๐ณ๐ฐ๐ณ, ๐ฑ๐ญ๐ข๐ต๐ง๐ฐ๐ณ๐ฎ ๐ง๐ข๐ช๐ญ๐ถ๐ณ๐ฆ ๐ข๐ฏ๐ฅ ๐ฎ๐ฐ๐ณ๐ฆ. ๐๐ต ๐ค๐ฆ๐ณ๐ต๐ข๐ช๐ฏ ๐ฑ๐ฐ๐ช๐ฏ๐ต๐ด ๐ต๐ฉ๐ณ๐ฐ๐ถ๐จ๐ฉ๐ฐ๐ถ๐ต ๐ต๐ฉ๐ช๐ด ๐ค๐ฉ๐ข๐ฏ๐ฏ๐ฆ๐ญ, ๐ธ๐ฆ ๐ฎ๐ข๐บ ๐ฆ๐ข๐ณ๐ฏ ๐ข ๐ค๐ฐ๐ฎ๐ฎ๐ช๐ด๐ด๐ช๐ฐ๐ฏ ๐ฐ๐ณ ๐ง๐ฆ๐ฆ ๐ข๐ด ๐ข ๐ด๐ฑ๐ฐ๐ฏ๐ด๐ฐ๐ณ๐ด๐ฉ๐ช๐ฑ, ๐ช๐ง ๐ต๐ฉ๐ช๐ด ๐ช๐ด ๐ต๐ฉ๐ฆ ๐ค๐ข๐ด๐ฆ ๐ธ๐ฆ ๐ธ๐ช๐ญ๐ญ ๐ข๐ญ๐ธ๐ข๐บ๐ด ๐ฎ๐ข๐ฌ๐ฆ ๐ด๐ถ๐ณ๐ฆ ๐ช๐ต ๐ช๐ด ๐ค๐ญ๐ฆ๐ข๐ณ. ๐๐ฆ ๐ข๐ณ๐ฆ ๐ด๐ต๐ณ๐ช๐ค๐ต๐ญ๐บ ๐ข๐ฏ ๐ฆ๐ฅ๐ถ๐ค๐ข๐ต๐ช๐ฐ๐ฏ๐ข๐ญ ๐ค๐ฐ๐ฏ๐ต๐ฆ๐ฏ๐ต ๐ฑ๐ญ๐ข๐ต๐ง๐ฐ๐ณ๐ฎ, ๐ฏ๐ฐ๐ต๐ฉ๐ช๐ฏ๐จ ๐ธ๐ฆ ๐ฐ๐ง๐ง๐ฆ๐ณ ๐ช๐ด ๐ง๐ช๐ฏ๐ข๐ฏ๐ค๐ช๐ข๐ญ ๐ข๐ฅ๐ท๐ช๐ค๐ฆ. ๐๐ฆ ๐ข๐ณ๐ฆ ๐ฏ๐ฐ๐ต ๐ฑ๐ณ๐ฐ๐ง๐ฆ๐ด๐ด๐ช๐ฐ๐ฏ๐ข๐ญ๐ด ๐ฐ๐ณ ๐ญ๐ช๐ค๐ฆ๐ฏ๐ด๐ฆ๐ฅ ๐ข๐ฅ๐ท๐ช๐ด๐ฐ๐ณ๐ด.
Gabriel Otte says the SEC's tokenization innovation exemption is so close to Dinari's own model that he couldn't have written it better himself. The Dinari co-founder explains why he was surprised the SEC cut out synthetics entirely, how the exemption opens the door to ticker-to-ticker swaps and asset-settled perps on US equities, and why he believes transfer agent modernization helps rather than threatens his business.
Gabriel Otte is Co-Founder and CEO of Dinari, a FINRA-registered broker-dealer and transfer agent that has tokenized the S&P 500 and hundreds of other US assets.
The Rollup is where the leaders of digital assets and finance converge. Live from the financial capital of the world.
00:00 Intro
01:04 SEC Exemption Written For Dinari
02:36 60 Days To Shape The Future Of Stocks
04:08 Apple To Nvidia Direct Swap Is Now Possible
05:30 SEC Is Not Bringing Back Bearer Bonds
07:45 Tokenized Deposits Can Earn Yield
09:45 Transfer Agent Modernization Breakdown
12:08 Higher Monetary Velocity For Tokenized Assets
13:49 SEC Backs Tokenize Without Taking Rights Away
Guest Socials:
Gabriel Otte X: https://x.com/GabeOtte
Dinari X: https://x.com/DinariGlobal
Dinari Website: https://dinari.com/
Partners:
If you run concentrated liquidity positions you know the grind. Price moves, you're out of range, you're rebalancing at, like, 3am. 1inch Aqua lets you take a different approach. You can stack multiple positions on the same token balance instead of babysitting a dozen pools, and your tokens never leave your wallet. Your liquidity stays awake, so you can catch up on your sleep. Check it out at https://1inch.com/aqua
---
Dinari - Over 230 1:1 backed tokenized stocks, ETFs & more with dividends. US-based SEC transfer agent. Available on 5+ chains & via API. https://dinari.com/
---
Space and Time is providing verifiable data infrastructure for onchain finance. A decentralized database, blockchain indexer, and ZK coprocessor in one, giving DeFi protocols,stablecoins, and tokenized assets accurate, provable data.
---
Zama is an open source cryptography company that builds state-of-the-art Fully Homomorphic Encryption (FHE) solutions for blockchain.
Learn more here: https://www.zama.org/
---
๐ช๐ฒ ๐๐ฟ๐ ๐ผ๐๐ฟ ๐ฏ๐ฒ๐๐ ๐๐ผ ๐ฝ๐ฟ๐ผ๐ฑ๐๐ฐ๐ฒ ๐ต๐ถ๐ด๐ต-๐พ๐๐ฎ๐น๐ถ๐๐, ๐ป๐ผ๐ป-๐ฏ๐ถ๐ฎ๐๐ฒ๐ฑ, ๐ฒ๐ฑ๐๐ฐ๐ฎ๐๐ถ๐ผ๐ป๐ฎ๐น ๐ฐ๐ผ๐ป๐๐ฒ๐ป๐ ๐ณ๐ผ๐ฟ ๐๐ต๐ฒ ๐ฑ๐ถ๐ด๐ถ๐๐ฎ๐น ๐ฎ๐๐๐ฒ๐๐ ๐ฒ๐ฐ๐ผ๐๐๐๐๐ฒ๐บ. ๐ฆ๐๐ฝ๐ฝ๐ผ๐ฟ๐ ๐๐ ๐ฏ๐ ๐ฐ๐น๐ถ๐ฐ๐ธ๐ถ๐ป๐ด ๐ฎ๐ป๐ ๐ผ๐ณ ๐๐ต๐ฒ ๐น๐ถ๐ป๐ธ๐ ๐ฏ๐ฒ๐น๐ผ๐ ๐ณ๐ผ๐ฟ ๐ณ๐ฟ๐ฒ๐ฒ ๐ฟ๐ฒ๐๐ผ๐๐ฟ๐ฐ๐ฒ๐:
Website: https://therollup.co/
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1P6ZeYd...
Podcast: https://therollup.co/category/podcast
Follow us on X: https://www.x.com/therollupco
Follow Rob on X: https://x.com/robbieklages
Follow Andy on X: https://x.com/andyyy
Join our TG group: https://t.me/+TsM1CRpWFgk1NGZh
The Rollup Disclosures: https://goodidea.ventures
๐๐๐ฆ๐๐๐๐๐ ๐๐ฅ: ๐๐ฏ๐ท๐ฆ๐ด๐ต๐ช๐ฏ๐จ ๐ช๐ฏ ๐ค๐ณ๐บ๐ฑ๐ต๐ฐ๐ค๐ถ๐ณ๐ณ๐ฆ๐ฏ๐ค๐บ ๐ข๐ฏ๐ฅ ๐๐ฆ๐๐ช ๐ฑ๐ญ๐ข๐ต๐ง๐ฐ๐ณ๐ฎ๐ด ๐ค๐ฐ๐ฎ๐ฆ๐ด ๐ธ๐ช๐ต๐ฉ ๐ช๐ฏ๐ฉ๐ฆ๐ณ๐ฆ๐ฏ๐ต ๐ณ๐ช๐ด๐ฌ๐ด ๐ช๐ฏ๐ค๐ญ๐ถ๐ฅ๐ช๐ฏ๐จ ๐ต๐ฆ๐ค๐ฉ๐ฏ๐ช๐ค๐ข๐ญ ๐ณ๐ช๐ด๐ฌ, ๐ฉ๐ถ๐ฎ๐ข๐ฏ ๐ฆ๐ณ๐ณ๐ฐ๐ณ, ๐ฑ๐ญ๐ข๐ต๐ง๐ฐ๐ณ๐ฎ ๐ง๐ข๐ช๐ญ๐ถ๐ณ๐ฆ ๐ข๐ฏ๐ฅ ๐ฎ๐ฐ๐ณ๐ฆ. ๐๐ต ๐ค๐ฆ๐ณ๐ต๐ข๐ช๐ฏ ๐ฑ๐ฐ๐ช๐ฏ๐ต๐ด ๐ต๐ฉ๐ณ๐ฐ๐ถ๐จ๐ฉ๐ฐ๐ถ๐ต ๐ต๐ฉ๐ช๐ด ๐ค๐ฉ๐ข๐ฏ๐ฏ๐ฆ๐ญ, ๐ธ๐ฆ ๐ฎ๐ข๐บ ๐ฆ๐ข๐ณ๐ฏ ๐ข ๐ค๐ฐ๐ฎ๐ฎ๐ช๐ด๐ด๐ช๐ฐ๐ฏ ๐ฐ๐ณ ๐ง๐ฆ๐ฆ ๐ข๐ด ๐ข ๐ด๐ฑ๐ฐ๐ฏ๐ด๐ฐ๐ณ๐ด๐ฉ๐ช๐ฑ, ๐ช๐ง ๐ต๐ฉ๐ช๐ด ๐ช๐ด ๐ต๐ฉ๐ฆ ๐ค๐ข๐ด๐ฆ ๐ธ๐ฆ ๐ธ๐ช๐ญ๐ญ ๐ข๐ญ๐ธ๐ข๐บ๐ด ๐ฎ๐ข๐ฌ๐ฆ ๐ด๐ถ๐ณ๐ฆ ๐ช๐ต ๐ช๐ด ๐ค๐ญ๐ฆ๐ข๐ณ. ๐๐ฆ ๐ข๐ณ๐ฆ ๐ด๐ต๐ณ๐ช๐ค๐ต๐ญ๐บ ๐ข๐ฏ ๐ฆ๐ฅ๐ถ๐ค๐ข๐ต๐ช๐ฐ๐ฏ๐ข๐ญ ๐ค๐ฐ๐ฏ๐ต๐ฆ๐ฏ๐ต ๐ฑ๐ญ๐ข๐ต๐ง๐ฐ๐ณ๐ฎ, ๐ฏ๐ฐ๐ต๐ฉ๐ช๐ฏ๐จ ๐ธ๐ฆ ๐ฐ๐ง๐ง๐ฆ๐ณ ๐ช๐ด ๐ง๐ช๐ฏ๐ข๐ฏ๐ค๐ช๐ข๐ญ ๐ข๐ฅ๐ท๐ช๐ค๐ฆ. ๐๐ฆ ๐ข๐ณ๐ฆ ๐ฏ๐ฐ๐ต ๐ฑ๐ณ๐ฐ๐ง๐ฆ๐ด๐ด๐ช๐ฐ๐ฏ๐ข๐ญ๐ด ๐ฐ๐ณ ๐ญ๐ช๐ค๐ฆ๐ฏ๐ด๐ฆ๐ฅ ๐ข๐ฅ๐ท๐ช๐ด๐ฐ๐ณ๐ด.
With 130% dispersion between the best and worst of the top 20 assets over 30 days, Matt Hougan calls that the healthiest signal digital assets has produced in a decade, because it means fundamentals finally drive price. He says the bottom was June, the bull market has started, and the next leg comes from wire house advisors allocating in Q4. Sal Ternullo walks through why Near was mispriced against its intents revenue, the inflation reduction proposal taking emissions from 2.5% to 1.6%, and why the real repricing comes when the AI fee switch flips. They also get into Bitwise's new NRR ETF, 24/7 markets, and why virtual cards won't slow stablecoins down.
Matt Hougan is the Chief Investment Officer at Bitwise. Sal Ternullo is the CEO of SVRN.
The Rollup is where the leaders of digital assets and finance converge. Live from the financial capital of the world.
Timestamps:
00:00 Intro
02:08 NEAR Intents Revenue Finally Repriced
04:16 Bitwise Was Eyeing NEAR For A While
06:13 Bitwise Brings NEAR To Every Brokerage
08:14 Staking Yield Accrues To Shareholders Automatically
10:33 Not All Digital Assets Are Created Equal
14:55 NEAR Is The AI Call Option Thesis
18:14 Sovereign And Bitwise Are Not Competing
22:09 Institutional Demand Is Just Beginning
26:14 24/7 Markets Need Agentic Infrastructure
30:33 Banks Cannot Staff Saturday Night Risk
32:53 Agents Will Monitor When Humans Sleep
Guest Socials:
Matt Hougan X: https://x.com/Matt_Hougan
Bitwise X: https://x.com/Bitwise
Bitwise Website: https://bitwiseinvestments.com/
Sal Ternullo X: https://x.com/sal_ternullo
SVRN X: https://x.com/svrn_ai
SVRN Website: https://svrn.net/
Partners:
If you run concentrated liquidity positions you know the grind. Price moves, you're out of range, you're rebalancing at, like, 3am. 1inch Aqua lets you take a different approach. You can stack multiple positions on the same token balance instead of babysitting a dozen pools, and your tokens never leave your wallet. Your liquidity stays awake, so you can catch up on your sleep. Check it out at https://1inch.com/aqua
---
Dinari - Over 230 1:1 backed tokenized stocks, ETFs & more with dividends. US-based SEC transfer agent. Available on 5+ chains & via API. https://dinari.com/
---
Space and Time is providing verifiable data infrastructure for onchain finance. A decentralized database, blockchain indexer, and ZK coprocessor in one, giving DeFi protocols,stablecoins, and tokenized assets accurate, provable data.
---
Zama is an open source cryptography company that builds state-of-the-art Fully Homomorphic Encryption (FHE) solutions for blockchain.
Learn more here: https://www.zama.org/
---
๐ฆ๐๐ฝ๐ฝ๐ผ๐ฟ๐ ๐๐ ๐ฏ๐ ๐ฐ๐น๐ถ๐ฐ๐ธ๐ถ๐ป๐ด ๐ฎ๐ป๐ ๐ผ๐ณ ๐๐ต๐ฒ ๐น๐ถ๐ป๐ธ๐ ๐ฏ๐ฒ๐น๐ผ๐ ๐ณ๐ผ๐ฟ ๐ณ๐ฟ๐ฒ๐ฒ ๐ฟ๐ฒ๐๐ผ๐๐ฟ๐ฐ๐ฒ๐:
Website: https://therollup.co/
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1P6ZeYd...
Podcast: https://therollup.co/category/podcast
Follow us on X: https://www.x.com/therollupco
Follow Rob on X: https://x.com/robbieklages
Follow Andy on X: https://x.com/andyyy
Join our TG group: https://t.me/+TsM1CRpWFgk1NGZh
The Rollup Disclosures: https://goodidea.ventures
๐๐๐ฆ๐๐๐๐๐ ๐๐ฅ: ๐๐ฏ๐ท๐ฆ๐ด๐ต๐ช๐ฏ๐จ ๐ช๐ฏ ๐ค๐ณ๐บ๐ฑ๐ต๐ฐ๐ค๐ถ๐ณ๐ณ๐ฆ๐ฏ๐ค๐บ ๐ข๐ฏ๐ฅ ๐๐ฆ๐๐ช ๐ฑ๐ญ๐ข๐ต๐ง๐ฐ๐ณ๐ฎ๐ด ๐ค๐ฐ๐ฎ๐ฆ๐ด ๐ธ๐ช๐ต๐ฉ ๐ช๐ฏ๐ฉ๐ฆ๐ณ๐ฆ๐ฏ๐ต ๐ณ๐ช๐ด๐ฌ๐ด ๐ช๐ฏ๐ค๐ญ๐ถ๐ฅ๐ช๐ฏ๐จ ๐ต๐ฆ๐ค๐ฉ๐ฏ๐ช๐ค๐ข๐ญ ๐ณ๐ช๐ด๐ฌ, ๐ฉ๐ถ๐ฎ๐ข๐ฏ ๐ฆ๐ณ๐ณ๐ฐ๐ณ, ๐ฑ๐ญ๐ข๐ต๐ง๐ฐ๐ณ๐ฎ ๐ง๐ข๐ช๐ญ๐ถ๐ณ๐ฆ ๐ข๐ฏ๐ฅ ๐ฎ๐ฐ๐ณ๐ฆ. ๐๐ต ๐ค๐ฆ๐ณ๐ต๐ข๐ช๐ฏ ๐ฑ๐ฐ๐ช๐ฏ๐ต๐ด ๐ต๐ฉ๐ณ๐ฐ๐ถ๐จ๐ฉ๐ฐ๐ถ๐ต ๐ต๐ฉ๐ช๐ด ๐ค๐ฉ๐ข๐ฏ๐ฏ๐ฆ๐ญ, ๐ธ๐ฆ ๐ฎ๐ข๐บ ๐ฆ๐ข๐ณ๐ฏ ๐ข ๐ค๐ฐ๐ฎ๐ฎ๐ช๐ด๐ด๐ช๐ฐ๐ฏ ๐ฐ๐ณ ๐ง๐ฆ๐ฆ ๐ข๐ด ๐ข ๐ด๐ฑ๐ฐ๐ฏ๐ด๐ฐ๐ณ๐ด๐ฉ๐ช๐ฑ, ๐ช๐ง ๐ต๐ฉ๐ช๐ด ๐ช๐ด ๐ต๐ฉ๐ฆ ๐ค๐ข๐ด๐ฆ ๐ธ๐ฆ ๐ธ๐ช๐ญ๐ญ ๐ข๐ญ๐ธ๐ข๐บ๐ด ๐ฎ๐ข๐ฌ๐ฆ ๐ด๐ถ๐ณ๐ฆ ๐ช๐ต ๐ช๐ด ๐ค๐ญ๐ฆ๐ข๐ณ. ๐๐ฆ ๐ข๐ณ๐ฆ ๐ด๐ต๐ณ๐ช๐ค๐ต๐ญ๐บ ๐ข๐ฏ ๐ฆ๐ฅ๐ถ๐ค๐ข๐ต๐ช๐ฐ๐ฏ๐ข๐ญ ๐ค๐ฐ๐ฏ๐ต๐ฆ๐ฏ๐ต ๐ฑ๐ญ๐ข๐ต๐ง๐ฐ๐ณ๐ฎ, ๐ฏ๐ฐ๐ต๐ฉ๐ช๐ฏ๐จ ๐ธ๐ฆ ๐ฐ๐ง๐ง๐ฆ๐ณ ๐ช๐ด ๐ง๐ช๐ฏ๐ข๐ฏ๐ค๐ช๐ข๐ญ ๐ข๐ฅ๐ท๐ช๐ค๐ฆ. ๐๐ฆ ๐ข๐ณ๐ฆ ๐ฏ๐ฐ๐ต ๐ฑ๐ณ๐ฐ๐ง๐ฆ๐ด๐ด๐ช๐ฐ๐ฏ๐ข๐ญ๐ด ๐ฐ๐ณ ๐ญ๐ช๐ค๐ฆ๐ฏ๐ด๐ฆ๐ฅ ๐ข๐ฅ๐ท๐ช๐ด๐ฐ๐ณ๐ด.
Three years ago nobody at Swift was thinking about carrying a token across the network and now the ledger is live and banks are settling cross-border payments with their own deposit tokens. Tom Zschach, who was CIO through that shift, cuts through what he says is widespread confusion: the Swift ledger doesn't do settlement, doesn't hold custody, and doesn't issue tokens. It orchestrates the transaction, and the member banks decide where settlement lands. He also confirms the rumors: big announcements are coming at Money 2020.
Tom Zschach is the former Chief Innovation Officer at Swift.
The Rollup is where the leaders of digital assets and finance converge. Live from the financial capital of the world.
Timestamps:
00:00 Intro
02:39 Unpacking The Swift Ledger
04:38 Banks Get Another Option
06:11 It's Just Finance Now
07:57 Separating Fact From Fiction
10:25 What The Ledger Actually Does
11:53 Why Partnerships Decide This
13:32 The Rumors Are True
Guest Socials:
Tom Zschach X: https://x.com/TomZschach
Chainlink X: https://x.com/chainlink
Chainlink Website: https://chain.link/
Partners:
If you run concentrated liquidity positions you know the grind. Price moves, you're out of range, you're rebalancing at, like, 3am. 1inch Aqua lets you take a different approach. You can stack multiple positions on the same token balance instead of babysitting a dozen pools, and your tokens never leave your wallet. Your liquidity stays awake, so you can catch up on your sleep. Check it out at https://1inch.com/aqua
---
Dinari - Over 230 1:1 backed tokenized stocks, ETFs & more with dividends. US-based SEC transfer agent. Available on 5+ chains & via API. https://dinari.com/
---
Space and Time is providing verifiable data infrastructure for onchain finance. A decentralized database, blockchain indexer, and ZK coprocessor in one, giving DeFi protocols,stablecoins, and tokenized assets accurate, provable data.
---
Zama is an open source cryptography company that builds state-of-the-art Fully Homomorphic Encryption (FHE) solutions for blockchain.
Learn more here: https://www.zama.org/
---
๐ช๐ฒ ๐๐ฟ๐ ๐ผ๐๐ฟ ๐ฏ๐ฒ๐๐ ๐๐ผ ๐ฝ๐ฟ๐ผ๐ฑ๐๐ฐ๐ฒ ๐ต๐ถ๐ด๐ต-๐พ๐๐ฎ๐น๐ถ๐๐, ๐ป๐ผ๐ป-๐ฏ๐ถ๐ฎ๐๐ฒ๐ฑ, ๐ฒ๐ฑ๐๐ฐ๐ฎ๐๐ถ๐ผ๐ป๐ฎ๐น ๐ฐ๐ผ๐ป๐๐ฒ๐ป๐ ๐ณ๐ผ๐ฟ ๐๐ต๐ฒ ๐ฑ๐ถ๐ด๐ถ๐๐ฎ๐น ๐ฎ๐๐๐ฒ๐๐ ๐ฒ๐ฐ๐ผ๐๐๐๐๐ฒ๐บ. ๐ฆ๐๐ฝ๐ฝ๐ผ๐ฟ๐ ๐๐ ๐ฏ๐ ๐ฐ๐น๐ถ๐ฐ๐ธ๐ถ๐ป๐ด ๐ฎ๐ป๐ ๐ผ๐ณ ๐๐ต๐ฒ ๐น๐ถ๐ป๐ธ๐ ๐ฏ๐ฒ๐น๐ผ๐ ๐ณ๐ผ๐ฟ ๐ณ๐ฟ๐ฒ๐ฒ ๐ฟ๐ฒ๐๐ผ๐๐ฟ๐ฐ๐ฒ๐:
Website: https://therollup.co/
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1P6ZeYd...
Podcast: https://therollup.co/category/podcast
Follow us on X: https://www.x.com/therollupco
Follow Rob on X: https://x.com/robbieklages
Follow Andy on X: https://x.com/andyyy
Join our TG group: https://t.me/+TsM1CRpWFgk1NGZh
The Rollup Disclosures: https://goodidea.ventures
๐๐๐ฆ๐๐๐๐๐ ๐๐ฅ: ๐๐ฏ๐ท๐ฆ๐ด๐ต๐ช๐ฏ๐จ ๐ช๐ฏ ๐ค๐ณ๐บ๐ฑ๐ต๐ฐ๐ค๐ถ๐ณ๐ณ๐ฆ๐ฏ๐ค๐บ ๐ข๐ฏ๐ฅ ๐๐ฆ๐๐ช ๐ฑ๐ญ๐ข๐ต๐ง๐ฐ๐ณ๐ฎ๐ด ๐ค๐ฐ๐ฎ๐ฆ๐ด ๐ธ๐ช๐ต๐ฉ ๐ช๐ฏ๐ฉ๐ฆ๐ณ๐ฆ๐ฏ๐ต ๐ณ๐ช๐ด๐ฌ๐ด ๐ช๐ฏ๐ค๐ญ๐ถ๐ฅ๐ช๐ฏ๐จ ๐ต๐ฆ๐ค๐ฉ๐ฏ๐ช๐ค๐ข๐ญ ๐ณ๐ช๐ด๐ฌ, ๐ฉ๐ถ๐ฎ๐ข๐ฏ ๐ฆ๐ณ๐ณ๐ฐ๐ณ, ๐ฑ๐ญ๐ข๐ต๐ง๐ฐ๐ณ๐ฎ ๐ง๐ข๐ช๐ญ๐ถ๐ณ๐ฆ ๐ข๐ฏ๐ฅ ๐ฎ๐ฐ๐ณ๐ฆ. ๐๐ต ๐ค๐ฆ๐ณ๐ต๐ข๐ช๐ฏ ๐ฑ๐ฐ๐ช๐ฏ๐ต๐ด ๐ต๐ฉ๐ณ๐ฐ๐ถ๐จ๐ฉ๐ฐ๐ถ๐ต ๐ต๐ฉ๐ช๐ด ๐ค๐ฉ๐ข๐ฏ๐ฏ๐ฆ๐ญ, ๐ธ๐ฆ ๐ฎ๐ข๐บ ๐ฆ๐ข๐ณ๐ฏ ๐ข ๐ค๐ฐ๐ฎ๐ฎ๐ช๐ด๐ด๐ช๐ฐ๐ฏ ๐ฐ๐ณ ๐ง๐ฆ๐ฆ ๐ข๐ด ๐ข ๐ด๐ฑ๐ฐ๐ฏ๐ด๐ฐ๐ณ๐ด๐ฉ๐ช๐ฑ, ๐ช๐ง ๐ต๐ฉ๐ช๐ด ๐ช๐ด ๐ต๐ฉ๐ฆ ๐ค๐ข๐ด๐ฆ ๐ธ๐ฆ ๐ธ๐ช๐ญ๐ญ ๐ข๐ญ๐ธ๐ข๐บ๐ด ๐ฎ๐ข๐ฌ๐ฆ ๐ด๐ถ๐ณ๐ฆ ๐ช๐ต ๐ช๐ด ๐ค๐ญ๐ฆ๐ข๐ณ. ๐๐ฆ ๐ข๐ณ๐ฆ ๐ด๐ต๐ณ๐ช๐ค๐ต๐ญ๐บ ๐ข๐ฏ ๐ฆ๐ฅ๐ถ๐ค๐ข๐ต๐ช๐ฐ๐ฏ๐ข๐ญ ๐ค๐ฐ๐ฏ๐ต๐ฆ๐ฏ๐ต ๐ฑ๐ญ๐ข๐ต๐ง๐ฐ๐ณ๐ฎ, ๐ฏ๐ฐ๐ต๐ฉ๐ช๐ฏ๐จ ๐ธ๐ฆ ๐ฐ๐ง๐ง๐ฆ๐ณ ๐ช๐ด ๐ง๐ช๐ฏ๐ข๐ฏ๐ค๐ช๐ข๐ญ ๐ข๐ฅ๐ท๐ช๐ค๐ฆ. ๐๐ฆ ๐ข๐ณ๐ฆ ๐ฏ๐ฐ๐ต ๐ฑ๐ณ๐ฐ๐ง๐ฆ๐ด๐ด๐ช๐ฐ๐ฏ๐ข๐ญ๐ด ๐ฐ๐ณ ๐ญ๐ช๐ค๐ฆ๐ฏ๐ด๐ฆ๐ฅ ๐ข๐ฅ๐ท๐ช๐ด๐ฐ๐ณ๐ด.
Sergey Nazarov says that critical mass is very close now, and when it tips, the amount of tokenized equity in existence skyrockets. He explains Chainlink's role as the interface banks use to access the Swift ledger, breaks down the DTCC collateral app chain and how settlement ties out across Ethereum and the app chain, and makes the case that nobody actually wants tokenization. Rather, they want what becomes possible once something is tokenized.
Sergey Nazarov is the Co-Founder of Chainlink.
The Rollup is where the leaders of digital assets and finance converge. Live from the financial capital of the world.
Timestamps:
00:00 Intro
02:25 Chainlink's Best Sibos Booth Ever
04:19 Chainlink Is The Interface For Swift Ledger
06:14 More Chains Means More Chainlink Value
08:14 DTCC Deeply Integrates Chainlink Data Feeds
10:26 Chainlink Solves The Digital Twin Problem
14:55 Tokenization Is Not About Tokens Themselves
18:14 Laws Will Change Then All Settlement Goes Onchain
20:08 Fragmentation Is Actually Chainlink's Tailwind
22:09 Chainlink Solves Each Problem As It Appears
24:04 Smart Contracts Defined By Sergey
Guest Socials:
Sergey Nazarov X: https://x.com/SergeyNazarov
Chainlink X: https://x.com/chainlink
Chainlink Website: https://chain.link/
Partners:
If you run concentrated liquidity positions you know the grind. Price moves, you're out of range, you're rebalancing at, like, 3am. 1inch Aqua lets you take a different approach. You can stack multiple positions on the same token balance instead of babysitting a dozen pools, and your tokens never leave your wallet. Your liquidity stays awake, so you can catch up on your sleep. Check it out at https://1inch.com/aqua
---
Dinari - Over 230 1:1 backed tokenized stocks, ETFs & more with dividends. US-based SEC transfer agent. Available on 5+ chains & via API. https://dinari.com/
---
Space and Time is providing verifiable data infrastructure for onchain finance. A decentralized database, blockchain indexer, and ZK coprocessor in one, giving DeFi protocols,stablecoins, and tokenized assets accurate, provable data.
---
Zama is an open source cryptography company that builds state-of-the-art Fully Homomorphic Encryption (FHE) solutions for blockchain.
Learn more here: https://www.zama.org/
---
๐ช๐ฒ ๐๐ฟ๐ ๐ผ๐๐ฟ ๐ฏ๐ฒ๐๐ ๐๐ผ ๐ฝ๐ฟ๐ผ๐ฑ๐๐ฐ๐ฒ ๐ต๐ถ๐ด๐ต-๐พ๐๐ฎ๐น๐ถ๐๐, ๐ป๐ผ๐ป-๐ฏ๐ถ๐ฎ๐๐ฒ๐ฑ, ๐ฒ๐ฑ๐๐ฐ๐ฎ๐๐ถ๐ผ๐ป๐ฎ๐น ๐ฐ๐ผ๐ป๐๐ฒ๐ป๐ ๐ณ๐ผ๐ฟ ๐๐ต๐ฒ ๐ฑ๐ถ๐ด๐ถ๐๐ฎ๐น ๐ฎ๐๐๐ฒ๐๐ ๐ฒ๐ฐ๐ผ๐๐๐๐๐ฒ๐บ. ๐ฆ๐๐ฝ๐ฝ๐ผ๐ฟ๐ ๐๐ ๐ฏ๐ ๐ฐ๐น๐ถ๐ฐ๐ธ๐ถ๐ป๐ด ๐ฎ๐ป๐ ๐ผ๐ณ ๐๐ต๐ฒ ๐น๐ถ๐ป๐ธ๐ ๐ฏ๐ฒ๐น๐ผ๐ ๐ณ๐ผ๐ฟ ๐ณ๐ฟ๐ฒ๐ฒ ๐ฟ๐ฒ๐๐ผ๐๐ฟ๐ฐ๐ฒ๐:
Website: https://therollup.co/
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1P6ZeYd...
Podcast: https://therollup.co/category/podcast
Follow us on X: https://www.x.com/therollupco
Follow Rob on X: https://x.com/robbieklages
Follow Andy on X: https://x.com/andyyy
Join our TG group: https://t.me/+TsM1CRpWFgk1NGZh
The Rollup Disclosures: https://goodidea.ventures
๐๐๐ฆ๐๐๐๐๐ ๐๐ฅ: ๐๐ฏ๐ท๐ฆ๐ด๐ต๐ช๐ฏ๐จ ๐ช๐ฏ ๐ค๐ณ๐บ๐ฑ๐ต๐ฐ๐ค๐ถ๐ณ๐ณ๐ฆ๐ฏ๐ค๐บ ๐ข๐ฏ๐ฅ ๐๐ฆ๐๐ช ๐ฑ๐ญ๐ข๐ต๐ง๐ฐ๐ณ๐ฎ๐ด ๐ค๐ฐ๐ฎ๐ฆ๐ด ๐ธ๐ช๐ต๐ฉ ๐ช๐ฏ๐ฉ๐ฆ๐ณ๐ฆ๐ฏ๐ต ๐ณ๐ช๐ด๐ฌ๐ด ๐ช๐ฏ๐ค๐ญ๐ถ๐ฅ๐ช๐ฏ๐จ ๐ต๐ฆ๐ค๐ฉ๐ฏ๐ช๐ค๐ข๐ญ ๐ณ๐ช๐ด๐ฌ, ๐ฉ๐ถ๐ฎ๐ข๐ฏ ๐ฆ๐ณ๐ณ๐ฐ๐ณ, ๐ฑ๐ญ๐ข๐ต๐ง๐ฐ๐ณ๐ฎ ๐ง๐ข๐ช๐ญ๐ถ๐ณ๐ฆ ๐ข๐ฏ๐ฅ ๐ฎ๐ฐ๐ณ๐ฆ. ๐๐ต ๐ค๐ฆ๐ณ๐ต๐ข๐ช๐ฏ ๐ฑ๐ฐ๐ช๐ฏ๐ต๐ด ๐ต๐ฉ๐ณ๐ฐ๐ถ๐จ๐ฉ๐ฐ๐ถ๐ต ๐ต๐ฉ๐ช๐ด ๐ค๐ฉ๐ข๐ฏ๐ฏ๐ฆ๐ญ, ๐ธ๐ฆ ๐ฎ๐ข๐บ ๐ฆ๐ข๐ณ๐ฏ ๐ข ๐ค๐ฐ๐ฎ๐ฎ๐ช๐ด๐ด๐ช๐ฐ๐ฏ ๐ฐ๐ณ ๐ง๐ฆ๐ฆ ๐ข๐ด ๐ข ๐ด๐ฑ๐ฐ๐ฏ๐ด๐ฐ๐ณ๐ด๐ฉ๐ช๐ฑ, ๐ช๐ง ๐ต๐ฉ๐ช๐ด ๐ช๐ด ๐ต๐ฉ๐ฆ ๐ค๐ข๐ด๐ฆ ๐ธ๐ฆ ๐ธ๐ช๐ญ๐ญ ๐ข๐ญ๐ธ๐ข๐บ๐ด ๐ฎ๐ข๐ฌ๐ฆ ๐ด๐ถ๐ณ๐ฆ ๐ช๐ต ๐ช๐ด ๐ค๐ญ๐ฆ๐ข๐ณ. ๐๐ฆ ๐ข๐ณ๐ฆ ๐ด๐ต๐ณ๐ช๐ค๐ต๐ญ๐บ ๐ข๐ฏ ๐ฆ๐ฅ๐ถ๐ค๐ข๐ต๐ช๐ฐ๐ฏ๐ข๐ญ ๐ค๐ฐ๐ฏ๐ต๐ฆ๐ฏ๐ต ๐ฑ๐ญ๐ข๐ต๐ง๐ฐ๐ณ๐ฎ, ๐ฏ๐ฐ๐ต๐ฉ๐ช๐ฏ๐จ ๐ธ๐ฆ ๐ฐ๐ง๐ง๐ฆ๐ณ ๐ช๐ด ๐ง๐ช๐ฏ๐ข๐ฏ๐ค๐ช๐ข๐ญ ๐ข๐ฅ๐ท๐ช๐ค๐ฆ. ๐๐ฆ ๐ข๐ณ๐ฆ ๐ฏ๐ฐ๐ต ๐ฑ๐ณ๐ฐ๐ง๐ฆ๐ด๐ด๐ช๐ฐ๐ฏ๐ข๐ญ๐ด ๐ฐ๐ณ ๐ญ๐ช๐ค๐ฆ๐ฏ๐ด๐ฆ๐ฅ ๐ข๐ฅ๐ท๐ช๐ด๐ฐ๐ณ๐ด.
Broadridge is already settling $380 billion a day in repo onchain, and Rob Krugman expects that to clear a trillion by year end. He explains what actually changes when overnight loans become intraday, why 2027 is the year the brokerage and banking industries finally turn on wallets and custody, and why that unlock matters more than anything else. It takes tokenized assets from 750 million crypto users to billions of ordinary bank customers. He also makes the case that US-backed stablecoins may be the biggest trade event in American history, and explains how tokenization drops private market minimums from a million dollars to a few thousand.
Rob Krugman is the Chief Digital Officer at Broadridge.
The Rollup is where the leaders of digital assets and finance converge. Live from the financial capital of the world.
Timestamps:
00:00 Intro
00:22 $1 Trillion In Repo Market By Year End
02:13 Programmability Embeds Compliance Into The Asset
04:30 Institutional Allocators Are Finally Getting It
06:48 Composability Across Separate Ledgers Explained
08:54 Tokenized Collateral Works For You 24/7
10:33 Innovate Or Be Disrupted No Middle Ground
12:44 Wallets And Custody Are The First Unlock
14:43 Online Trading 90s Parallel To Tokenization Now
16:43 Consumer Is The Biggest Winner Of All
18:00 Nigerian Student Builds The Case For Stablecoins
Guest Socials:
Rob Krugman X: https://x.com/robkrugman
Broadridge X: https://x.com/Broadridge
Broadridge Website: https://www.broadridge.com/
Partners:
If you run concentrated liquidity positions you know the grind. Price moves, you're out of range, you're rebalancing at, like, 3am. 1inch Aqua lets you take a different approach. You can stack multiple positions on the same token balance instead of babysitting a dozen pools, and your tokens never leave your wallet. Your liquidity stays awake, so you can catch up on your sleep. Check it out at https://1inch.com/aqua
---
Dinari - Over 230 1:1 backed tokenized stocks, ETFs & more with dividends. US-based SEC transfer agent. Available on 5+ chains & via API. https://dinari.com/
---
Space and Time is providing verifiable data infrastructure for onchain finance. A decentralized database, blockchain indexer, and ZK coprocessor in one, giving DeFi protocols,stablecoins, and tokenized assets accurate, provable data.
---
Zama is an open source cryptography company that builds state-of-the-art Fully Homomorphic Encryption (FHE) solutions for blockchain.
Learn more here: https://www.zama.org/
---
๐ช๐ฒ ๐๐ฟ๐ ๐ผ๐๐ฟ ๐ฏ๐ฒ๐๐ ๐๐ผ ๐ฝ๐ฟ๐ผ๐ฑ๐๐ฐ๐ฒ ๐ต๐ถ๐ด๐ต-๐พ๐๐ฎ๐น๐ถ๐๐, ๐ป๐ผ๐ป-๐ฏ๐ถ๐ฎ๐๐ฒ๐ฑ, ๐ฒ๐ฑ๐๐ฐ๐ฎ๐๐ถ๐ผ๐ป๐ฎ๐น ๐ฐ๐ผ๐ป๐๐ฒ๐ป๐ ๐ณ๐ผ๐ฟ ๐๐ต๐ฒ ๐ฑ๐ถ๐ด๐ถ๐๐ฎ๐น ๐ฎ๐๐๐ฒ๐๐ ๐ฒ๐ฐ๐ผ๐๐๐๐๐ฒ๐บ. ๐ฆ๐๐ฝ๐ฝ๐ผ๐ฟ๐ ๐๐ ๐ฏ๐ ๐ฐ๐น๐ถ๐ฐ๐ธ๐ถ๐ป๐ด ๐ฎ๐ป๐ ๐ผ๐ณ ๐๐ต๐ฒ ๐น๐ถ๐ป๐ธ๐ ๐ฏ๐ฒ๐น๐ผ๐ ๐ณ๐ผ๐ฟ ๐ณ๐ฟ๐ฒ๐ฒ ๐ฟ๐ฒ๐๐ผ๐๐ฟ๐ฐ๐ฒ๐:
Website: https://therollup.co/
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1P6ZeYd...
Podcast: https://therollup.co/category/podcast
Follow us on X: https://www.x.com/therollupco
Follow Rob on X: https://x.com/robbieklages
Follow Andy on X: https://x.com/andyyy
Join our TG group: https://t.me/+TsM1CRpWFgk1NGZh
The Rollup Disclosures: https://goodidea.ventures
๐๐๐ฆ๐๐๐๐๐ ๐๐ฅ: ๐๐ฏ๐ท๐ฆ๐ด๐ต๐ช๐ฏ๐จ ๐ช๐ฏ ๐ค๐ณ๐บ๐ฑ๐ต๐ฐ๐ค๐ถ๐ณ๐ณ๐ฆ๐ฏ๐ค๐บ ๐ข๐ฏ๐ฅ ๐๐ฆ๐๐ช ๐ฑ๐ญ๐ข๐ต๐ง๐ฐ๐ณ๐ฎ๐ด ๐ค๐ฐ๐ฎ๐ฆ๐ด ๐ธ๐ช๐ต๐ฉ ๐ช๐ฏ๐ฉ๐ฆ๐ณ๐ฆ๐ฏ๐ต ๐ณ๐ช๐ด๐ฌ๐ด ๐ช๐ฏ๐ค๐ญ๐ถ๐ฅ๐ช๐ฏ๐จ ๐ต๐ฆ๐ค๐ฉ๐ฏ๐ช๐ค๐ข๐ญ ๐ณ๐ช๐ด๐ฌ, ๐ฉ๐ถ๐ฎ๐ข๐ฏ ๐ฆ๐ณ๐ณ๐ฐ๐ณ, ๐ฑ๐ญ๐ข๐ต๐ง๐ฐ๐ณ๐ฎ ๐ง๐ข๐ช๐ญ๐ถ๐ณ๐ฆ ๐ข๐ฏ๐ฅ ๐ฎ๐ฐ๐ณ๐ฆ. ๐๐ต ๐ค๐ฆ๐ณ๐ต๐ข๐ช๐ฏ ๐ฑ๐ฐ๐ช๐ฏ๐ต๐ด ๐ต๐ฉ๐ณ๐ฐ๐ถ๐จ๐ฉ๐ฐ๐ถ๐ต ๐ต๐ฉ๐ช๐ด ๐ค๐ฉ๐ข๐ฏ๐ฏ๐ฆ๐ญ, ๐ธ๐ฆ ๐ฎ๐ข๐บ ๐ฆ๐ข๐ณ๐ฏ ๐ข ๐ค๐ฐ๐ฎ๐ฎ๐ช๐ด๐ด๐ช๐ฐ๐ฏ ๐ฐ๐ณ ๐ง๐ฆ๐ฆ ๐ข๐ด ๐ข ๐ด๐ฑ๐ฐ๐ฏ๐ด๐ฐ๐ณ๐ด๐ฉ๐ช๐ฑ, ๐ช๐ง ๐ต๐ฉ๐ช๐ด ๐ช๐ด ๐ต๐ฉ๐ฆ ๐ค๐ข๐ด๐ฆ ๐ธ๐ฆ ๐ธ๐ช๐ญ๐ญ ๐ข๐ญ๐ธ๐ข๐บ๐ด ๐ฎ๐ข๐ฌ๐ฆ ๐ด๐ถ๐ณ๐ฆ ๐ช๐ต ๐ช๐ด ๐ค๐ญ๐ฆ๐ข๐ณ. ๐๐ฆ ๐ข๐ณ๐ฆ ๐ด๐ต๐ณ๐ช๐ค๐ต๐ญ๐บ ๐ข๐ฏ ๐ฆ๐ฅ๐ถ๐ค๐ข๐ต๐ช๐ฐ๐ฏ๐ข๐ญ ๐ค๐ฐ๐ฏ๐ต๐ฆ๐ฏ๐ต ๐ฑ๐ญ๐ข๐ต๐ง๐ฐ๐ณ๐ฎ, ๐ฏ๐ฐ๐ต๐ฉ๐ช๐ฏ๐จ ๐ธ๐ฆ ๐ฐ๐ง๐ง๐ฆ๐ณ ๐ช๐ด ๐ง๐ช๐ฏ๐ข๐ฏ๐ค๐ช๐ข๐ญ ๐ข๐ฅ๐ท๐ช๐ค๐ฆ. ๐๐ฆ ๐ข๐ณ๐ฆ ๐ฏ๐ฐ๐ต ๐ฑ๐ณ๐ฐ๐ง๐ฆ๐ด๐ด๐ช๐ฐ๐ฏ๐ข๐ญ๐ด ๐ฐ๐ณ ๐ญ๐ช๐ค๐ฆ๐ฏ๐ด๐ฆ๐ฅ ๐ข๐ฅ๐ท๐ช๐ด๐ฐ๐ณ๐ด.