Technology

The Rollup

Where digital assets and finance converge. Live from the financial capital of the world.

Website: https://therollup.co/

Latest Episodes:

John D'Agostino: Tokenization Is Already Here (Coinbase Institutional) Nov 09, 2026

Show notes

John D'Agostino says the debate is over: tokenization is already here, and the biggest names in finance are moving onchain right now.

Live from LINK NYC, John sits down with Andy and Rob to explain why small daily catalysts matter more than one big moment. He also covers how demand for 24/7 trading is pushing markets onchain and what an open dialogue with the SEC could look like. Then he explains why tokenized deposits are far bigger than stablecoins right now, and how blockchain can help community banks compete for customers.

John D'Agostino works at Coinbase Institutional and was previously head of strategy at NYMEX.

The markets are moving onchain faster than most people realize.

Guest Socials

John D'Agostino X: https://x.com/johnjdagostino

Coinbase Institutional X: https://x.com/CoinbaseInsto

Coinbase Institutional Website: https://www.coinbase.com/prime

Partners:

Space and Time is providing verifiable data infrastructure for onchain finance. A decentralized database, blockchain indexer, and ZK coprocessor in one, giving DeFi protocols,stablecoins, and tokenized assets accurate, provable data.

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Zama is an open source cryptography company that builds state-of-the-art Fully Homomorphic Encryption (FHE) solutions for blockchain.

Learn more here: https://www.zama.org/

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𝗪𝗲 𝘁𝗿𝘆 𝗼𝘂𝗿 𝗯𝗲𝘀𝘁 𝘁𝗼 𝗽𝗿𝗼𝗱𝘂𝗰𝗲 𝗵𝗶𝗴𝗵-𝗾𝘂𝗮𝗹𝗶𝘁𝘆, 𝗻𝗼𝗻-𝗯𝗶𝗮𝘀𝗲𝗱, 𝗲𝗱𝘂𝗰𝗮𝘁𝗶𝗼𝗻𝗮𝗹 𝗰𝗼𝗻𝘁𝗲𝗻𝘁 𝗳𝗼𝗿 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝗱𝗶𝗴𝗶𝘁𝗮𝗹 𝗮𝘀𝘀𝗲𝘁𝘀 𝗲𝗰𝗼𝘀𝘆𝘀𝘁𝗲𝗺. 𝗦𝘂𝗽𝗽𝗼𝗿𝘁 𝘂𝘀 𝗯𝘆 𝗰𝗹𝗶𝗰𝗸𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝗮𝗻𝘆 𝗼𝗳 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝗹𝗶𝗻𝗸𝘀 𝗯𝗲𝗹𝗼𝘄 𝗳𝗼𝗿 𝗳𝗿𝗲𝗲 𝗿𝗲𝘀𝗼𝘂𝗿𝗰𝗲𝘀:

Website: https://therollup.co/

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1P6ZeYd9vbF3hJA2n7qoL5

Podcast: https://therollup.co/category/podcast

Follow Rob on X: https://x.com/robbieklages

Follow Andy on X: https://x.com/andyyy

Join our TG group: https://t.me/+TsM1CRpWFgk1NGZh

The Rollup Disclosures: https://goodidea.ventures

𝗗𝗜𝗦𝗖𝗟𝗔𝗜𝗠𝗘𝗥: 𝘐𝘯𝘷𝘦𝘴𝘵𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘪𝘯 𝘤𝘳𝘺𝘱𝘵𝘰𝘤𝘶𝘳𝘳𝘦𝘯𝘤𝘺 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘋𝘦𝘍𝘪 𝘱𝘭𝘢𝘵𝘧𝘰𝘳𝘮𝘴 𝘤𝘰𝘮𝘦𝘴 𝘸𝘪𝘵𝘩 𝘪𝘯𝘩𝘦𝘳𝘦𝘯𝘵 𝘳𝘪𝘴𝘬𝘴 𝘪𝘯𝘤𝘭𝘶𝘥𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘵𝘦𝘤𝘩𝘯𝘪𝘤𝘢𝘭 𝘳𝘪𝘴𝘬, 𝘩𝘶𝘮𝘢𝘯 𝘦𝘳𝘳𝘰𝘳, 𝘱𝘭𝘢𝘵𝘧𝘰𝘳𝘮 𝘧𝘢𝘪𝘭𝘶𝘳𝘦 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘮𝘰𝘳𝘦. 𝘈𝘵 𝘤𝘦𝘳𝘵𝘢𝘪𝘯 𝘱𝘰𝘪𝘯𝘵𝘴 𝘵𝘩𝘳𝘰𝘶𝘨𝘩𝘰𝘶𝘵 𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘴 𝘤𝘩𝘢𝘯𝘯𝘦𝘭, 𝘸𝘦 𝘮𝘢𝘺 𝘦𝘢𝘳𝘯 𝘢 𝘤𝘰𝘮𝘮𝘪𝘴𝘴𝘪𝘰𝘯 𝘰𝘳 𝘧𝘦𝘦 𝘢𝘴 𝘢 𝘴𝘱𝘰𝘯𝘴𝘰𝘳𝘴𝘩𝘪𝘱, 𝘪𝘧 𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘴 𝘪𝘴 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘤𝘢𝘴𝘦 𝘸𝘦 𝘸𝘪𝘭𝘭 𝘢𝘭𝘸𝘢𝘺𝘴 𝘮𝘢𝘬𝘦 𝘴𝘶𝘳𝘦 𝘪𝘵 𝘪𝘴 𝘤𝘭𝘦𝘢𝘳. 𝘞𝘦 𝘢𝘳𝘦 𝘴𝘵𝘳𝘪𝘤𝘵𝘭𝘺 𝘢𝘯 𝘦𝘥𝘶𝘤𝘢𝘵𝘪𝘰𝘯𝘢𝘭 𝘤𝘰𝘯𝘵𝘦𝘯𝘵 𝘱𝘭𝘢𝘵𝘧𝘰𝘳𝘮, 𝘯𝘰𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘸𝘦 𝘰𝘧𝘧𝘦𝘳 𝘪𝘴 𝘧𝘪𝘯𝘢𝘯𝘤𝘪𝘢𝘭 𝘢𝘥𝘷𝘪𝘤𝘦. 𝘞𝘦 𝘢𝘳𝘦 𝘯𝘰𝘵 𝘱𝘳𝘰𝘧𝘦𝘴𝘴𝘪𝘰𝘯𝘢𝘭𝘴 𝘰𝘳 𝘭𝘪𝘤𝘦𝘯𝘴𝘦𝘥 𝘢𝘥𝘷𝘪𝘴𝘰𝘳𝘴.

Tom Pikett: DTCC Is Bringing $30 Trillion Onchain (Insider Take) Nov 08, 2026

Show notes

Tom Pikett says the token isn't the product. The real unlock is collateral that can move anywhere, at any hour.

Tom is Executive Director at DTCC Digital Assets. In this conversation, recorded live at LINK NYC, he breaks down DTCC's tokenization service launch: 34 securities live across Canton and Besu, about $30 trillion in assets eligible to come onchain, and the collateral app chain arriving next year. He also covers why tokenized money market funds change margin calls, how Chainlink connects DTCC to public chains, and what atomic settlement means for a market that nets 98% of its trades.

Tom Pikett is Executive Director at DTCC Digital Assets, where he focuses on the tokenization service and DTCC's collateral app chain.

The infrastructure behind US markets is moving onchain, and it's only the beginning.

Guest Socials

DTCC X: https://x.com/The_DTCC

DTCC Website: https://www.dtcc.com

Partners:

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Zama is an open source cryptography company that builds state-of-the-art Fully Homomorphic Encryption (FHE) solutions for blockchain.

Learn more here: https://www.zama.org/

---

Website: https://therollup.co/

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1P6ZeYd9vbF3hJA2n7qoL5

Podcast: https://therollup.co/category/podcast

Follow Rob on X: https://x.com/robbieklages

Follow Andy on X: https://x.com/andyyy

Join our TG group: https://t.me/+TsM1CRpWFgk1NGZh

The Rollup Disclosures: https://goodidea.ventures

Tom Zschach: Trillions Are Coming Onchain And Institutions Are Ready (Acceptance Layer) Nov 07, 2026

Show notes

Tom Zschach says anyone still doubting tokenization is already behind: the institutions are here, the rails are live, and the shift is happening now.

Three years ago nobody would have thought about carrying a token over the Swift network, and now the DTCC's tokenization service is live.

Live from Link:NYC in Hudson Yards, the former Swift Chief Innovation Officer explains why he founded Logos, and why institutions holding $100 million in stablecoins or tokenized assets need to move from trust me to prove it. He breaks down why the real decision sits with whoever accepts a token, from custodians to DeFi lending protocols to marketplaces, and why tens of thousands of tokenized assets will need evidence that can be published once and accepted everywhere. He also explains why privacy will matter, why he sees almost endless opportunities to invest as trillions of dollars come onchain, and how Logos' first design partners span stablecoins, payments and Securitize.

Tom Zschach is Co-Founder and CEO of Logos and the former Chief Innovation Officer at Swift.

The Rollup is where the leaders of digital assets and finance converge. Live from the financial capital of the world.

Timestamps:

00:00 Intro

03:43 From Trust Me To Prove It

07:00 Building At Global Scale

10:04 Why Privacy Will Matter

13:14 Publish Once, Accept Everywhere

16:26 Endless Opportunities To Invest

19:42 Logos Is Building The Acceptance Layer

Guest Socials

Tom Zschach X: https://x.com/TomZschach

Logos X: https://x.com/Logosfi

Partners:

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Zama is an open source cryptography company that builds state-of-the-art Fully Homomorphic Encryption (FHE) solutions for blockchain.

Learn more here: https://www.zama.org/

---

Website: https://therollup.co/

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1P6ZeYd9vbF3hJA2n7qoL5

Podcast: https://therollup.co/category/podcast

Follow Rob on X: https://x.com/robbieklages

Follow Andy on X: https://x.com/andyyy

Join our TG group: https://t.me/+TsM1CRpWFgk1NGZh

The Rollup Disclosures: https://goodidea.ventures

Diego Perez de Ayala: Wall Street Is Going Onchain (Frictionless) Nov 04, 2026

Show notes

Diego Perez de Ayala says the industry chased the wrong bet for years, and the trillions are in rebuilding the financial system itself.

Diego, known as Solana Legend, joins Andy and Rob live from the Empire State Building to lay out the thesis behind Frictionless. They talk about why the nouns of Wall Street are already onchain but its verbs are still early, the race to get licensed before the regulatory window shuts, and why tokenization today looks like stablecoins in 2014. He also covers the incumbents' Kodak dilemma, why chains that ignore capital markets won't survive, and what could justify trillion-dollar layer ones.

Diego Perez de Ayala, known as Solana Legend, is Co-Founder of Frictionless, backing onchain trading and capital markets infrastructure including Backpack and Titan.

Finance is being rewritten on the internet, and only one in twenty of its functions has been built.

Timestamps:

00:00 Intro

01:21 Web 3.0 Narrative Proved Largely False

04:08 Funding The Verbs Not The Nouns

06:10 Licenses Race Before The Window Shuts

10:24 Tokenization Looks Like 2014 Before Tether

13:00 How Wall Street Actually Comes Onchain

15:26 Companies Earning A Billion A Month

17:27 Incumbents Face The Kodak Dilemma

21:29 Missing 24/7 Trading Is A Scam

23:47 Chains Ignoring Capital Markets Are Cooked

26:18 Do Layer Ones Justify Trillion Valuations

30:10 Return Dispersion Lets Investors Outperform

32:30 One Out Of Twenty Verbs Built

Guest Socials:

Diego Perez de Ayala X: https://x.com/SolanaLegend

Frictionless X: https://x.com/FrictionlessVC

Frictionless Website: https://frictionless.capital/

Partners:

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Zama is an open source cryptography company that builds state-of-the-art Fully Homomorphic Encryption (FHE) solutions for blockchain.

Learn more here: https://www.zama.org/

---

Website: https://therollup.co/

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1P6ZeYd9vbF3hJA2n7qoL5

Podcast: https://therollup.co/category/podcast

Follow Rob on X: https://x.com/robbieklages

Follow Andy on X: https://x.com/andyyy

Join our TG group: https://t.me/+TsM1CRpWFgk1NGZh

The Rollup Disclosures: https://goodidea.ventures

DISCLAIMER: Investing in cryptocurrency and DeFi platforms comes with inherent risks including technical risk, human error, platform failure and more. At certain points throughout this channel, we may earn a commission or fee as a sponsorship, if this is the case we will always make sure it is clear. We are strictly an educational content platform, nothing we offer is financial advice. We are not professionals or licensed advisors.

Kristen Mierzwa: The Russell Is Going Onchain 24/7 (Insider Take) Nov 03, 2026

Show notes

Kristen Mierzwa says every big traditional asset class now wants what digital assets have had all along: 24/7 markets. FTSE Russell has priced digital assets around the clock since 2019, and now it's working on taking equities, fixed income, commodities and more to 24/7 too.

Live from Link:NYC in Hudson Yards, FTSE Russell's Head of Digital Assets explains how Hyperliquid's weekend oil trading changed the conversation, why index providers and exchanges need to be the trusted source of price for 24/7 markets, and how the Russell indices are already going onchain, from OTC swaps on the Canton Network on the Russell 2000 to the DTCC tokenizing constituents of the Russell 1000. She breaks down why demand for 24/7 trading is coming from outside the US, why FTSE Russell is expanding its stablecoin coverage from 12 to 95 and pricing from decentralized exchanges, and how tokenization lets one product hold Bitcoin, gold, silver and the biggest tech stocks side by side. She also explains why believing in tokenization means believing in the layer ones it runs on.

Kristen Mierzwa is Head of Digital Assets at FTSE Russell, an LSEG business.

The Rollup is where the leaders of digital assets and finance converge. Live from the financial capital of the world.

Timestamps:

00:00 Intro

03:04 Every Asset Class Is Going 24/7

07:45 How The Russell Indices Go Onchain

10:52 24/7 Demand Is Coming From Outside The US

14:07 Stablecoin Coverage Grows From 12 To 95

17:21 Trillions In Index Assets Can Come Onchain

20:24 Tokenization Runs On Layer Ones

Guest Socials:

Kristen Mierzwa LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristen-mierzwa

FTSE Russell X: https://x.com/FTSERussell

FTSE Russell Website: https://www.lseg.com/en/ftse-russell

Partners:

---

Zama is an open source cryptography company that builds state-of-the-art Fully Homomorphic Encryption (FHE) solutions for blockchain.

Learn more here: https://www.zama.org/

---

Website: https://therollup.co/

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1P6ZeYd9vbF3hJA2n7qoL5

Podcast: https://therollup.co/category/podcast

Follow Rob on X: https://x.com/robbieklages

Follow Andy on X: https://x.com/andyyy

Join our TG group: https://t.me/+TsM1CRpWFgk1NGZh

The Rollup Disclosures: https://goodidea.ventures

Jeremy Schwartz: Today Is Nothing Like The 2000 Tech Bubble Nov 02, 2026

Show notes

Jeremy Schwartz says today is nothing like 2000. The expanded tech sector trades around a 22 forward P/E, Tesla is the only big stock priced like the dot-com era, and for public market investors there's no real bubble. If anything, he says, AI adoption hasn't even reached the national anthem.

On Convergence, our series with WisdomTree, WisdomTree's Global Chief Investment Officer explains why markets are climbing a wall of worry with reasonable valuations, why he doesn't see a dramatic Fed hiking cycle, and how people across his firm built around 60 apps in five months by vibe coding, which makes him want more people using these tools, not fewer. He breaks down WisdomTree's push into tokenization, from tokenized gold to a tokenized money market fund that can now trade 24/7, and why tokenized ETFs are coming as the SEC pushes progress forward. He also previews the new collaboration with Return Stacked ETFs and explains why a few percent in Bitcoin makes sense as a diversifier in multi-asset portfolios.

Jeremy Schwartz is Global Chief Investment Officer at WisdomTree and co-author of Stocks for the Long Run with Professor Jeremy Siegel.

The Rollup is where the leaders of digital assets and finance converge. Live from the financial capital of the world.

Timestamps:

00:00 Intro

04:16 Today Is Nothing Like 2000

07:25 AI Is Still In The Earliest Innings

12:03 Vibe Coding 60 Apps In Five Months

18:36 From Gold To Tokenized Gold

24:39 Tokenization Is Coming For Your Checking Account

32:25 Tokenized ETFs Are Coming

Guest Socials:

Jeremy Schwartz X: https://x.com/JeremyDSchwartz

WisdomTree X: https://x.com/WisdomTreeFunds

Partners:

---

Zama is an open source cryptography company that builds state-of-the-art Fully Homomorphic Encryption (FHE) solutions for blockchain.

Learn more here: https://www.zama.org/

---

Website: https://therollup.co/

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1P6ZeYd9vbF3hJA2n7qoL5

Podcast: https://therollup.co/category/podcast

Follow Rob on X: https://x.com/robbieklages

Follow Andy on X: https://x.com/andyyy

Join our TG group: https://t.me/+TsM1CRpWFgk1NGZh

The Rollup Disclosures: https://goodidea.ventures

James Seyffart: Tokenization Is Still So Early, We're In The Second Inning Nov 01, 2026

Show notes

James Seyffart says we are so early in the tokenization build-out, like the second inning. Tokenized stocks are ramping aggressively, following the same path stablecoins took a few years ago, and the total addressable market is absolutely massive.

Live from Link:NYC in Hudson Yards, Bloomberg Intelligence's senior research analyst explains why the DTCC's tokenization service and the biggest banks and broker-dealers testing onchain rails are only just getting started, and why he expects most stuff to be tokenized in 10 to 15 years, often without investors even noticing. He breaks down why tokenized ETFs and tokenized stocks are two bridges between TradFi and DeFi that will eventually merge, how skeptics at Bloomberg went from dismissing blockchain to quoting Hyperliquid and Polymarket prices, and why Zcash has become one of the most talked-about assets among institutional clients. He also lays out why he thinks Bitcoin reaches $10 trillion by the end of the decade.

James Seyffart is a Senior Research Analyst at Bloomberg Intelligence.

The Rollup is where the leaders of digital assets and finance converge. Live from the financial capital of the world.

Timestamps:

00:00 Intro

03:35 Tokenization Is Only Just Getting Started

07:18 Bloomberg Skeptics Now Quote Hyperliquid

13:09 Institutions Are Intrigued By Zcash

17:31 Bitcoin Is Heading To $10 Trillion

Guest Socials:

James Seyffart X: https://x.com/JSeyff

Bloomberg Intelligence X: https://x.com/BBGIntelligence

Bloomberg Intelligence Website: https://www.bloomberg.com/

Partners:

---

Zama is an open source cryptography company that builds state-of-the-art Fully Homomorphic Encryption (FHE) solutions for blockchain.

Learn more here: https://www.zama.org/

---

𝗪𝗲 𝘁𝗿𝘆 𝗼𝘂𝗿 𝗯𝗲𝘀𝘁 𝘁𝗼 𝗽𝗿𝗼𝗱𝘂𝗰𝗲 𝗵𝗶𝗴𝗵-𝗾𝘂𝗮𝗹𝗶𝘁𝘆, 𝗻𝗼𝗻-𝗯𝗶𝗮𝘀𝗲𝗱, 𝗲𝗱𝘂𝗰𝗮𝘁𝗶𝗼𝗻𝗮𝗹 𝗰𝗼𝗻𝘁𝗲𝗻𝘁 𝗳𝗼𝗿 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝗱𝗶𝗴𝗶𝘁𝗮𝗹 𝗮𝘀𝘀𝗲𝘁 𝗲𝗰𝗼𝘀𝘆𝘀𝘁𝗲𝗺. 𝗦𝘂𝗽𝗽𝗼𝗿𝘁 𝘂𝘀 𝗯𝘆 𝗰𝗹𝗶𝗰𝗸𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝗮𝗻𝘆 𝗼𝗳 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝗹𝗶𝗻𝗸𝘀 𝗯𝗲𝗹𝗼𝘄 𝗳𝗼𝗿 𝗳𝗿𝗲𝗲 𝗿𝗲𝘀𝗼𝘂𝗿𝗰𝗲𝘀:

Website: https://therollup.co/

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1P6ZeYd9vbF3hJA2n7qoL5

Podcast: https://therollup.co/category/podcast

Follow Rob on X: https://x.com/robbieklages

Follow Andy on X: https://x.com/andyyy

Join our TG group: https://t.me/+TsM1CRpWFgk1NGZh

The Rollup Disclosures: https://goodidea.ventures

Sergey Nazarov: Tokenization Will 10x The Money Coming Onchain Oct 31, 2026

Show notes

Sergey Nazarov says the whole industry only keeps succeeding if net new money keeps coming onchain, and now the job is to 10x that money. The way to do it, he says, is to use tokenization to build financial products that are better than their traditional versions.

Live from Link:NYC in Hudson Yards, the Chainlink co-founder explains why Chainlink has grown from an oracle into a collection of tools and full solutions, from a custody product already adopted by Anchorage to securities and cash lending across DeFi and TradFi, and why that makes it as hard to describe as Amazon Web Services. He breaks down why 24/7 markets need 24/7 data, what connecting the DTCC's collateral app chain to the Swift ledger would unlock, and why the really huge volume will come from cross-border flows, with capital in places like Dubai and Singapore finally able to reach US assets. He also previews, for the first time, a new Chainlink solution built for AI agents to use DeFi, securities lending and real-world assets.

Sergey Nazarov is the Co-Founder of Chainlink.

The Rollup is where the leaders of digital assets and finance converge. Live from the financial capital of the world.

Timestamps:

00:00 Intro

04:15 Chainlink Is The AWS Of Onchain Finance

07:25 Tokenized Assets Must Beat TradFi

10:32 What Connecting Swift And DTCC Unlocks

13:42 The Huge Volume Will Be International

17:32 Global Distribution Needs Tokenization

20:54 Chainlink Is Building For AI Agents

25:27 Tokenization Will 10x The Money Onchain

Guest Socials:

Sergey Nazarov X: https://x.com/SergeyNazarov

Chainlink X: https://x.com/chainlink

Chainlink Website: https://chain.link/

Partners:

---

Zama is an open source cryptography company that builds state-of-the-art Fully Homomorphic Encryption (FHE) solutions for blockchain.

Learn more here: https://www.zama.org/

---

Website: https://therollup.co/

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1P6ZeYd9vbF3hJA2n7qoL5

Podcast: https://therollup.co/category/podcast

Follow Rob on X: https://x.com/robbieklages

Follow Andy on X: https://x.com/andyyy

Join our TG group: https://t.me/+TsM1CRpWFgk1NGZh

The Rollup Disclosures: https://goodidea.ventures

Jim Ferraioli: Tokenization Is Now The Wall Street Consensus Oct 30, 2026

Show notes

Jim Ferraioli believes Wall Street's move on-chain has finally arrived, and that this cycle is unlike any before it.

In this episode, Rob sits down with Jim, Head of Crypto Research at Charles Schwab, to talk about the institutional shift in digital assets. They cover why this cycle is different, how Schwab approaches research as a firm that doesn't issue tokens, and the pushback against tokenized equities. They also discuss Schwab's spot trading launch, why demand for tokenization comes from inside the institutions rather than from clients, and why regulatory clarity is still the biggest hurdle to full adoption.

Jim Ferraioli is Head of Crypto Research at Charles Schwab, where he brings a fundamental equities approach to analyzing blockchains and digital assets.

The walls between traditional finance and digital assets are coming down, and the next wave of innovation is just getting started.

Timestamps:

00:00 Intro

01:44 Bitcoin Halving Cycle Isn't Dead

03:44 Different Ways To Research Digital Assets

06:32 Full-Page Ad Against Tokenized Shares

08:37 Shareholders Won't Care If It's Tokenized

11:27 Spot Trading Already Live For Clients

13:29 Corporate America Wants Proof Of Demand

15:29 Regulators Could Change In Two Years

17:30 Excited For New Areas Of Innovation

Guest Socials:

Jim Ferraioli X: https://x.com/jimferraioli

Charles Schwab X: https://x.com/CharlesSchwab

Charles Schwab Website: https://www.aboutschwab.com/

Partners:

---

Zama is an open source cryptography company that builds state-of-the-art Fully Homomorphic Encryption (FHE) solutions for blockchain.

Learn more here: https://www.zama.org/

---

Website: https://therollup.co/

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1P6ZeYd9vbF3hJA2n7qoL5

Podcast: https://therollup.co/category/podcast

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Matt Hougan & Ryan Rasmussen: The Next Bull Run Is Already Here (There Are No Sellers Left) Oct 29, 2026

Show notes

Matt Hougan and Ryan Rasmussen say the money that was going to leave digital assets already left, and once the Anthropic IPO passes, the floodgates could open for capital rotating into the next big thing: tokenization and stablecoins.

Live from The Bridge by The Tie in New York City, Bitwise's CIO and Head of Research explain why short-term shocks from the Fed, the election and the AI trade are hiding what Hougan calls a long-term, extraordinarily great setup, driven by 300,000 financial advisors finally making a 2% allocation and regulation like the GENIUS Act still working its way through. They break down why there are no more sellers left, why digital assets look remarkably undervalued next to other categories, and why stablecoins, tokenization and perps are taking off at exactly the right time, with the regulation, the institutional adoption and the access all in place. They also explain why bad builders can no longer ride the beta, and why fundamental buyers stepping in should mean fewer 90% drawdowns for real projects with real revenue.

Matt Hougan is Chief Investment Officer at Bitwise. Ryan Rasmussen is Head of Research at Bitwise.

The Rollup is where the leaders of digital assets and finance converge. Live from the financial capital of the world.

Timestamps:
00:00 Intro
01:16 Why Pessimism Feels So Natural Right Now
04:09 When AI Capital Rotates Into Digital Assets
07:03 All The Sellers Already Left The Market
11:07 BlackRock And SEC Changed Everything For Bitcoin
13:11 Perps Stablecoins And Tokenization Are The Big Three
16:00 Think In Network Ownership Not Just Price
19:32 Zcash Could Reach One-Tenth Of Bitcoin
22:13 Easier To Invest Harder To Build Today
24:13 Fundamentals Create Buyers When Prices Dip
26:02 Everyone Said Perps Were Done After BitMEX
28:02 Consensus Winners Still Have Room To Run

Guest Socials:
Matt Hougan X: https://x.com/Matt_Hougan
Ryan Rasmussen X: https://x.com/RasterlyRock
Bitwise X: https://x.com/Bitwise

Partners:
Space and Time is providing verifiable data infrastructure for onchain finance. A decentralized database, blockchain indexer, and ZK coprocessor in one, giving DeFi protocols,stablecoins, and tokenized assets accurate, provable data.
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Zama is an open source cryptography company that builds state-of-the-art Fully Homomorphic Encryption (FHE) solutions for blockchain.
Learn more here: https://www.zama.org/
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𝗗𝗜𝗦𝗖𝗟𝗔𝗜𝗠𝗘𝗥: 𝘐𝘯𝘷𝘦𝘴𝘵𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘪𝘯 𝘤𝘳𝘺𝘱𝘵𝘰𝘤𝘶𝘳𝘳𝘦𝘯𝘤𝘺 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘋𝘦𝘍𝘪 𝘱𝘭𝘢𝘵𝘧𝘰𝘳𝘮𝘴 𝘤𝘰𝘮𝘦𝘴 𝘸𝘪𝘵𝘩 𝘪𝘯𝘩𝘦𝘳𝘦𝘯𝘵 𝘳𝘪𝘴𝘬𝘴 𝘪𝘯𝘤𝘭𝘶𝘥𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘵𝘦𝘤𝘩𝘯𝘪𝘤𝘢𝘭 𝘳𝘪𝘴𝘬, 𝘩𝘶𝘮𝘢𝘯 𝘦𝘳𝘳𝘰𝘳, 𝘱𝘭𝘢𝘵𝘧𝘰𝘳𝘮 𝘧𝘢𝘪𝘭𝘶𝘳𝘦 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘮𝘰𝘳𝘦. 𝘈𝘵 𝘤𝘦𝘳𝘵𝘢𝘪𝘯 𝘱𝘰𝘪𝘯𝘵𝘴 𝘵𝘩𝘳𝘰𝘶𝘨𝘩𝘰𝘶𝘵 𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘴 𝘤𝘩𝘢𝘯𝘯𝘦𝘭, 𝘸𝘦 𝘮𝘢𝘺 𝘦𝘢𝘳𝘯 𝘢 𝘤𝘰𝘮𝘮𝘪𝘴𝘴𝘪𝘰𝘯 𝘰𝘳 𝘧𝘦𝘦 𝘢𝘴 𝘢 𝘴𝘱𝘰𝘯𝘴𝘰𝘳𝘴𝘩𝘪𝘱, 𝘪𝘧 𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘴 𝘪𝘴 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘤𝘢𝘴𝘦 𝘸𝘦 𝘸𝘪𝘭𝘭 𝘢𝘭𝘸𝘢𝘺𝘴 𝘮𝘢𝘬𝘦 𝘴𝘶𝘳𝘦 𝘪𝘵 𝘪𝘴 𝘤𝘭𝘦𝘢𝘳. 𝘞𝘦 𝘢𝘳𝘦 𝘴𝘵𝘳𝘪𝘤𝘵𝘭𝘺 𝘢𝘯 𝘦𝘥𝘷𝘪𝘤𝘦. 𝘞𝘦 𝘢𝘳𝘦 𝘯𝘰𝘵 𝘱𝘳𝘰𝘧𝘦𝘴𝘴𝘪𝘰𝘯𝘢𝘭𝘴 𝘰𝘳 𝘭𝘪𝘤𝘦𝘯𝘴𝘦𝘥 𝘢𝘥𝘷𝘪𝘴𝘰𝘳𝘴.

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