Where digital assets and finance converge. Live from the financial capital of the world.
Website: https://therollup.co/
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Where digital assets and finance converge. Live from the financial capital of the world.
Website: https://therollup.co/
Emad Mostaque breaks down the viral story of OpenAI's self-replicating agents that left "hieroglyph-like" trails for successive generations before breaking out and taking over internal services, and explains why he believes intelligence's cost is racing toward zero. He also unpacks Intelligent Internet's Bitcoin-forked monetary thesis for a post-AGI economy, and details his plan to launch state-by-state "champion" institutions designed to keep ownership of AI agents in the hands of the people.
Emad Mostaque is the Founder of Stability AI and the creator of Intelligent Internet, a protocol focused on building AI infrastructure for public institutions and citizen-owned agent economies.
The Rollup is where the leaders of digital assets and finance converge. Live from the financial capital of the world.
Timestamps:
00:00 Intro
02:14 Self-Replicating Agents Explained
05:03 The Intelligent Internet Thesis
08:20 What Is Money After AGI
11:51 Objective Hacking And AI Ethics
15:26 The Trolley Test Bias
19:08 Blockchain's Role In AI's Future
22:12 Why Private Inference Matters
26:03 Who's AI Runs Public Policy
29:49 Assume The Internet Goes Offline
32:33 MacBooks Turned Into Hacker Swarms
34:44 Why Bigger Models Don't Matter
37:14 The Implementation Plan Ahead
Guest Socials:
Emad Mostaque X: https://x.com/EMostaque
Intelligent Internet X: https://x.com/ii_posts
Intelligent Internet Website: https://ii.inc/
Partners:
1inch Aqua lets you stack multiple positions on the same token balance instead of babysitting a dozen pools, and your tokens never leave your wallet. Your liquidity stays awake, so you can catch up on your sleep. Check it out at https://1inch.com/aqua
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Dinari - Over 230 1:1 backed tokenized stocks, ETFs & more with dividends. US-based SEC transfer agent. Available on 5+ chains & via API. https://dinari.com/
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Space and Time is providing verifiable data infrastructure for onchain finance, giving DeFi protocols,stablecoins, and tokenized assets accurate, provable data.
Learn more here: https://www.spaceandtime.io/
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Frax is the Future of Digital Money. Open. Stable. Borderless. At Frax, we're building the world's most scalable stablecoin infrastructure for the next generation of finance.
Learn more here: net.frax.com/rollup
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Relay is the fastest and most reliable way to swap any token on any chain. Learn more here: https://relay.link/bridge
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Zama is the confidentiality protocol for onchain finance, using fully homomorphic encryption so smart contracts can compute on encrypted data, keeping balances, positions, and transfers confidential while remaining verifiable and compliant by design. Learn more here: https://www.zama.org/
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ðŠððœðœðŒð¿ð ðð ð¯ð ð°ð¹ð¶ð°ðžð¶ð»ðŽ ð®ð»ð ðŒð³ ððµð² ð¹ð¶ð»ðžð ð¯ð²ð¹ðŒð ð³ðŒð¿ ð³ð¿ð²ð² ð¿ð²ððŒðð¿ð°ð²ð:
Website: https://therollup.co/
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1P6ZeYd...
Podcast: https://therollup.co/category/podcast
Follow us on X: https://www.x.com/therollupco
Follow Rob on X: https://x.com/robbieklages
Follow Andy on X: https://x.com/andyyy
Join our TG group: https://t.me/+TsM1CRpWFgk1NGZh
The Rollup Disclosures: https://goodidea.ventures
ðððŠððððð ðð¥: ðð¯ð·ðŠðŽðµðªð¯ðš ðªð¯ ð€ð³ðºð±ðµð°ð€ð¶ð³ð³ðŠð¯ð€ðº ð¢ð¯ð¥ ððŠððª ð±ðð¢ðµð§ð°ð³ð®ðŽ ð€ð°ð®ðŠðŽ ðžðªðµð© ðªð¯ð©ðŠð³ðŠð¯ðµ ð³ðªðŽð¬ðŽ ðªð¯ð€ðð¶ð¥ðªð¯ðš ðµðŠð€ð©ð¯ðªð€ð¢ð ð³ðªðŽð¬, ð©ð¶ð®ð¢ð¯ ðŠð³ð³ð°ð³, ð±ðð¢ðµð§ð°ð³ð® ð§ð¢ðªðð¶ð³ðŠ ð¢ð¯ð¥ ð®ð°ð³ðŠ. ððµ ð€ðŠð³ðµð¢ðªð¯ ð±ð°ðªð¯ðµðŽ ðµð©ð³ð°ð¶ðšð©ð°ð¶ðµ ðµð©ðªðŽ ð€ð©ð¢ð¯ð¯ðŠð, ðžðŠ ð®ð¢ðº ðŠð¢ð³ð¯ ð¢ ð€ð°ð®ð®ðªðŽðŽðªð°ð¯ ð°ð³ ð§ðŠðŠ ð¢ðŽ ð¢ ðŽð±ð°ð¯ðŽð°ð³ðŽð©ðªð±, ðªð§ ðµð©ðªðŽ ðªðŽ ðµð©ðŠ ð€ð¢ðŽðŠ ðžðŠ ðžðªðð ð¢ððžð¢ðºðŽ ð®ð¢ð¬ðŠ ðŽð¶ð³ðŠ ðªðµ ðªðŽ ð€ððŠð¢ð³. ððŠ ð¢ð³ðŠ ðŽðµð³ðªð€ðµððº ð¢ð¯ ðŠð¥ð¶ð€ð¢ðµðªð°ð¯ð¢ð ð€ð°ð¯ðµðŠð¯ðµ ð±ðð¢ðµð§ð°ð³ð®, ð¯ð°ðµð©ðªð¯ðš ðžðŠ ð°ð§ð§ðŠð³ ðªðŽ ð§ðªð¯ð¢ð¯ð€ðªð¢ð ð¢ð¥ð·ðªð€ðŠ. ððŠ ð¢ð³ðŠ ð¯ð°ðµ ð±ð³ð°ð§ðŠðŽðŽðªð°ð¯ð¢ððŽ ð°ð³ ððªð€ðŠð¯ðŽðŠð¥ ð¢ð¥ð·ðªðŽð°ð³ðŽ.
Will Clemente joins us for an update on the imminent digital asset bull cycle. He breaks down the significance of Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent's long-bond buybacks before Jackson Hole, explaining why the move to backstop yields could force excess liquidity into the system and make Bitcoin & other digital assets an increasingly attractive hedge. He also unpacks his financial repression thesis, a potential "Treasury-Fed Accord 2.0," and why he expects Bitcoin and gold's diverging performance to reverse as capital rotates back into hard assets and away from the AI buildout trade.
Will Clemente is a solo investor and macro analyst known for his research on Bitcoin, onchain data, and the intersection of monetary policy and digital assets.
The Rollup is where the leaders of digital assets and finance converge. Live from the financial capital of the world.
Timestamps:
00:00 Intro
02:05 Will Sold Down At The Start Of 2026
04:08 Everyone In Digital Assets Pivoted To Equities
06:13 Bitcoin Cycles Bottom When Sellers Run Out
08:18 Besant Bond Buying Is The Green Light
10:33 Treasury Twist Explained Simply
12:44 Stablecoin Issuance Demand Escalating
14:55 Dollar Debasement Is The Long Game
17:06 Hard Money Assets Vs Fiat Debt
19:14 Iran Oil Risk Still Brewing
21:28 Yen And Dollar Coiling Up Now
23:51 September 9th Besant Bond Buying
25:52 Clarity Act Vote September 15th
28:05 All Roads Lead To Bitcoin Long Term
30:06 Warsh Forward Guidance Contradiction
32:17 Small Position on ZCash
Guest Socials:
Will Clemente X: https://x.com/WClemente
Partners:
If you run concentrated liquidity positions you know the grind. Price moves, you're out of range, you're rebalancing at, like, 3am. 1inch Aqua lets you take a different approach. You can stack multiple positions on the same token balance instead of babysitting a dozen pools, and your tokens never leave your wallet. Your liquidity stays awake, so you can catch up on your sleep. Check it out at https://1inch.com/aqua
---
Dinari - Over 230 1:1 backed tokenized stocks, ETFs & more with dividends. US-based SEC transfer agent. Available on 5+ chains & via API. https://dinari.com/
---
Space and Time is providing verifiable data infrastructure for onchain finance. A decentralized database, blockchain indexer, and ZK coprocessor in one, giving DeFi protocols,stablecoins, and tokenized assets accurate, provable data.
Learn more here: https://www.spaceandtime.io/
---
Relay is the fastest and most reliable way to swap any token on any chain. Learn more here: https://relay.link/bridge
---
Zama is an open source cryptography company that builds state-of-the-art Fully Homomorphic Encryption (FHE) solutions for blockchain.
Learn more here: https://www.zama.org/
---
ðŠððœðœðŒð¿ð ðð ð¯ð ð°ð¹ð¶ð°ðžð¶ð»ðŽ ð®ð»ð ðŒð³ ððµð² ð¹ð¶ð»ðžð ð¯ð²ð¹ðŒð ð³ðŒð¿ ð³ð¿ð²ð² ð¿ð²ððŒðð¿ð°ð²ð:
Website: https://therollup.co/
Podcast: https://therollup.co/category/podcast
Follow us on X: https://www.x.com/therollupco
Follow Rob on X: https://x.com/robbieklages
Follow Andy on X: https://x.com/andyyy
Join our TG group: https://t.me/+TsM1CRpWFgk1NGZh
The Rollup Disclosures: https://goodidea.ventures
ðððŠððððð ðð¥: ðð¯ð·ðŠðŽðµðªð¯ðš ðªð¯ ð€ð³ðºð±ðµð°ð€ð¶ð³ð³ðŠð¯ð€ðº ð¢ð¯ð¥ ððŠððª ð±ðð¢ðµð§ð°ð³ð®ðŽ ð€ð°ð®ðŠðŽ ðžðªðµð© ðªð¯ð©ðŠð³ðŠð¯ðµ ð³ðªðŽð¬ðŽ ðªð¯ð€ðð¶ð¥ðªð¯ðš ðµðŠð€ð©ð¯ðªð€ð¢ð ð³ðªðŽð¬, ð©ð¶ð®ð¢ð¯ ðŠð³ð³ð°ð³, ð±ðð¢ðµð§ð°ð³ð® ð§ð¢ðªðð¶ð³ðŠ ð¢ð¯ð¥ ð®ð°ð³ðŠ. ððµ ð€ðŠð³ðµð¢ðªð¯ ð±ð°ðªð¯ðµðŽ ðµð©ð³ð°ð¶ðšð©ð°ð¶ðµ ðµð©ðªðŽ ð€ð©ð¢ð¯ð¯ðŠð, ðžðŠ ð®ð¢ðº ðŠð¢ð³ð¯ ð¢ ð€ð°ð®ð®ðªðŽðŽðªð°ð¯ ð°ð³ ð§ðŠðŠ ð¢ðŽ ð¢ ðŽð±ð°ð¯ðŽð°ð³ðŽð©ðªð±, ðªð§ ðµð©ðªðŽ ðªðŽ ðµð©ðŠ ð€ð¢ðŽðŠ ðžðŠ ðžðªðð ð¢ððžð¢ðºðŽ ð®ð¢ð¬ðŠ ðŽð¶ð³ðŠ ðªðµ ðªðŽ ð€ððŠð¢ð³. ððŠ ð¢ð³ðŠ ðŽðµð³ðªð€ðµððº ð¢ð¯ ðŠð¥ð¶ð€ð¢ðµðªð°ð¯ð¢ð ð€ð°ð¯ðµðŠð¯ðµ ð±ðð¢ðµð§ð°ð³ð®, ð¯ð°ðµð©ðªð¯ðš ðžðŠ ð°ð§ð§ðŠð³ ðªðŽ ð§ðªð¯ð¢ð¯ð€ðªð¢ð ð¢ð¥ð·ðªð€ðŠ. ððŠ ð¢ð³ðŠ ð¯ð°ðµ ð±ð³ð°ð§ðŠðŽðŽðªð°ð¯ð¢ððŽ ð°ð³ ððªð€ðŠð¯ðŽðŠð¥ ð¢ð¥ð·ðªðŽð°ð³ðŽ.
Austin Barack breaks down why Pump.fun isn't really a meme coin platform. Rather, it's building social trading infrastructure that's about to expand across chains and asset types and explains why the market is mispricing one of the fastest-growing businesses in the world by treating its revenue as cyclical rather than durable. He also discusses the ongoing debate over buybacks as a value accrual mechanism, and identifies the categories he believes are best positioned heading into the next bull cycle.
Austin Barack is a Partner at RockawayX, a digital assets venture capital firm.
The Rollup is where the leaders of digital assets and finance converge. Live from the financial capital of the world.
Timestamps:
00:00 Intro
03:51 Pump Is Really Social Trading
06:43 Why Pump's Multiple Feels Too Low
09:35 Perps Trading Everything
13:27 Are Buybacks The End Game
16:00 Building Durable Revenue Businesses
19:14 The Real Winning Categories
Partners:
If you run concentrated liquidity positions you know the grind. Price moves, you're out of range, you're rebalancing at, like, 3am. 1inch Aqua lets you take a different approach. You can stack multiple positions on the same token balance instead of babysitting a dozen pools, and your tokens never leave your wallet. Your liquidity stays awake, so you can catch up on your sleep. Check it out at https://1inch.com/aqua
---
Dinari - Over 230 1:1 backed tokenized stocks, ETFs & more with dividends. US-based SEC transfer agent. Available on 5+ chains & via API. https://dinari.com/
---
Space and Time is providing verifiable data infrastructure for onchain finance. A decentralized database, blockchain indexer, and ZK coprocessor in one, giving DeFi protocols,stablecoins, and tokenized assets accurate, provable data.
Learn more here: https://www.spaceandtime.io/
---
Relay is the fastest and most reliable way to swap any token on any chain. Learn more here: https://relay.link/bridge
---
Zama is an open source cryptography company that builds state-of-the-art Fully Homomorphic Encryption (FHE) solutions for blockchain.
Learn more here: https://www.zama.org/
---
ðªð² ðð¿ð ðŒðð¿ ð¯ð²ðð ððŒ ðœð¿ðŒð±ðð°ð² ðµð¶ðŽðµ-ðŸðð®ð¹ð¶ðð, ð»ðŒð»-ð¯ð¶ð®ðð²ð±, ð²ð±ðð°ð®ðð¶ðŒð»ð®ð¹ ð°ðŒð»ðð²ð»ð ð³ðŒð¿ ððµð² ð±ð¶ðŽð¶ðð®ð¹ ð®ððð²ðð ð²ð°ðŒððððð²ðº. ðŠððœðœðŒð¿ð ðð ð¯ð ð°ð¹ð¶ð°ðžð¶ð»ðŽ ð®ð»ð ðŒð³ ððµð² ð¹ð¶ð»ðžð ð¯ð²ð¹ðŒð ð³ðŒð¿ ð³ð¿ð²ð² ð¿ð²ððŒðð¿ð°ð²ð:
Website: https://therollup.co/
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1P6ZeYd...
Podcast: https://therollup.co/category/podcast
Follow us on X: https://www.x.com/therollupco
Follow Rob on X: https://x.com/robbieklages
Follow Andy on X: https://x.com/andyyy
Join our TG group: https://t.me/+TsM1CRpWFgk1NGZh
The Rollup Disclosures: https://goodidea.ventures
ðððŠððððð ðð¥: ðð¯ð·ðŠðŽðµðªð¯ðš ðªð¯ ð€ð³ðºð±ðµð°ð€ð¶ð³ð³ðŠð¯ð€ðº ð¢ð¯ð¥ ððŠððª ð±ðð¢ðµð§ð°ð³ð®ðŽ ð€ð°ð®ðŠðŽ ðžðªðµð© ðªð¯ð©ðŠð³ðŠð¯ðµ ð³ðªðŽð¬ðŽ ðªð¯ð€ðð¶ð¥ðªð¯ðš ðµðŠð€ð©ð¯ðªð€ð¢ð ð³ðªðŽð¬, ð©ð¶ð®ð¢ð¯ ðŠð³ð³ð°ð³, ð±ðð¢ðµð§ð°ð³ð® ð§ð¢ðªðð¶ð³ðŠ ð¢ð¯ð¥ ð®ð°ð³ðŠ. ððµ ð€ðŠð³ðµð¢ðªð¯ ð±ð°ðªð¯ðµðŽ ðµð©ð³ð°ð¶ðšð©ð°ð¶ðµ ðµð©ðªðŽ ð€ð©ð¢ð¯ð¯ðŠð, ðžðŠ ð®ð¢ðº ðŠð¢ð³ð¯ ð¢ ð€ð°ð®ð®ðªðŽðŽðªð°ð¯ ð°ð³ ð§ðŠðŠ ð¢ðŽ ð¢ ðŽð±ð°ð¯ðŽð°ð³ðŽð©ðªð±, ðªð§ ðµð©ðªðŽ ðªðŽ ðµð©ðŠ ð€ð¢ðŽðŠ ðžðŠ ðžðªðð ð¢ððžð¢ðºðŽ ð®ð¢ð¬ðŠ ðŽð¶ð³ðŠ ðªðµ ðªðŽ ð€ððŠð¢ð³. ððŠ ð¢ð³ðŠ ðŽðµð³ðªð€ðµððº ð¢ð¯ ðŠð¥ð¶ð€ð¢ðµðªð°ð¯ð¢ð ð€ð°ð¯ðµðŠð¯ðµ ð±ðð¢ðµð§ð°ð³ð®, ð¯ð°ðµð©ðªð¯ðš ðžðŠ ð°ð§ð§ðŠð³ ðªðŽ ð§ðªð¯ð¢ð¯ð€ðªð¢ð ð¢ð¥ð·ðªð€ðŠ. ððŠ ð¢ð³ðŠ ð¯ð°ðµ ð±ð³ð°ð§ðŠðŽðŽðªð°ð¯ð¢ððŽ ð°ð³ ððªð€ðŠð¯ðŽðŠð¥ ð¢ð¥ð·ðªðŽð°ð³ðŽ.
Robert Leshner joins us to unpack his vision of the tokenization supercycle with the explosion of stablecoins as the core undercurrent.
He breaks down why over a dozen major banks including Bank of America, Wells Fargo, and Santander, just announced plans to launch their own stablecoins, and explains why he left Compound to build Superstate, a compliant, tokenized approach to money market funds and real-world assets. He also makes the case that tokenization's addressable market isn't just 100% of finance, plus much more.
Every asset is coming onchain.
Robert Leshner is the Co-Founder and CEO of Superstate, and the founder of Compound, one of DeFi's original lending protocols.
The Rollup is where the leaders of digital assets and finance converge. Live from the financial capital of the world.
Timestamps:
00:00 Intro
04:02 Banks Rushing Into Stablecoins?
07:20 A Hundred Approaches To Tokenization
12:25 Compliant Tokens That Do DeFi Well
16:56 From Wild West DeFi To Compliance
23:39 Why He Left Compound To Start Superstate
26:21 100% Market Share, Then Some For Tokenized Assets
Guest Socials:
Robert Leshner X: https://x.com/rleshner
Superstate X: https://x.com/superstateinc
Superstate Website: https://superstate.com/
Partners:
If you run concentrated liquidity positions you know the grind. Price moves, you're out of range, you're rebalancing at, like, 3am. 1inch Aqua lets you take a different approach. You can stack multiple positions on the same token balance instead of babysitting a dozen pools, and your tokens never leave your wallet. Your liquidity stays awake, so you can catch up on your sleep. Check it out at https://1inch.com/aqua
---
Dinari - Over 230 1:1 backed tokenized stocks, ETFs & more with dividends. US-based SEC transfer agent. Available on 5+ chains & via API. https://dinari.com/
---
Space and Time is providing verifiable data infrastructure for onchain finance. A decentralized database, blockchain indexer, and ZK coprocessor in one, giving DeFi protocols,stablecoins, and tokenized assets accurate, provable data.
---
Relay is the fastest and most reliable way to swap any token on any chain. Learn more here: https://relay.link/bridge
---
Zama is an open source cryptography company that builds state-of-the-art Fully Homomorphic Encryption (FHE) solutions for blockchain.
Learn more here: https://www.zama.org/
---
ðªð² ðð¿ð ðŒðð¿ ð¯ð²ðð ððŒ ðœð¿ðŒð±ðð°ð² ðµð¶ðŽðµ-ðŸðð®ð¹ð¶ðð, ð»ðŒð»-ð¯ð¶ð®ðð²ð±, ð²ð±ðð°ð®ðð¶ðŒð»ð®ð¹ ð°ðŒð»ðð²ð»ð ð³ðŒð¿ ððµð² ð±ð¶ðŽð¶ðð®ð¹ ð®ððð²ðð ð²ð°ðŒððððð²ðº. ðŠððœðœðŒð¿ð ðð ð¯ð ð°ð¹ð¶ð°ðžð¶ð»ðŽ ð®ð»ð ðŒð³ ððµð² ð¹ð¶ð»ðžð ð¯ð²ð¹ðŒð ð³ðŒð¿ ð³ð¿ð²ð² ð¿ð²ððŒðð¿ð°ð²ð:
Website: https://therollup.co/
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1P6ZeYd...
Podcast: https://therollup.co/category/podcast
Follow us on X: https://www.x.com/therollupco
Follow Rob on X: https://x.com/robbieklages
Follow Andy on X: https://x.com/andyyy
Join our TG group: https://t.me/+TsM1CRpWFgk1NGZh
The Rollup Disclosures: https://goodidea.ventures
ðððŠððððð ðð¥: ðð¯ð·ðŠðŽðµðªð¯ðš ðªð¯ ð€ð³ðºð±ðµð°ð€ð¶ð³ð³ðŠð¯ð€ðº ð¢ð¯ð¥ ððŠððª ð±ðð¢ðµð§ð°ð³ð®ðŽ ð€ð°ð®ðŠðŽ ðžðªðµð© ðªð¯ð©ðŠð³ðŠð¯ðµ ð³ðªðŽð¬ðŽ ðªð¯ð€ðð¶ð¥ðªð¯ðš ðµðŠð€ð©ð¯ðªð€ð¢ð ð³ðªðŽð¬, ð©ð¶ð®ð¢ð¯ ðŠð³ð³ð°ð³, ð±ðð¢ðµð§ð°ð³ð® ð§ð¢ðªðð¶ð³ðŠ ð¢ð¯ð¥ ð®ð°ð³ðŠ. ððµ ð€ðŠð³ðµð¢ðªð¯ ð±ð°ðªð¯ðµðŽ ðµð©ð³ð°ð¶ðšð©ð°ð¶ðµ ðµð©ðªðŽ ð€ð©ð¢ð¯ð¯ðŠð, ðžðŠ ð®ð¢ðº ðŠð¢ð³ð¯ ð¢ ð€ð°ð®ð®ðªðŽðŽðªð°ð¯ ð°ð³ ð§ðŠðŠ ð¢ðŽ ð¢ ðŽð±ð°ð¯ðŽð°ð³ðŽð©ðªð±, ðªð§ ðµð©ðªðŽ ðªðŽ ðµð©ðŠ ð€ð¢ðŽðŠ ðžðŠ ðžðªðð ð¢ððžð¢ðºðŽ ð®ð¢ð¬ðŠ ðŽð¶ð³ðŠ ðªðµ ðªðŽ ð€ððŠð¢ð³. ððŠ ð¢ð³ðŠ ðŽðµð³ðªð€ðµððº ð¢ð¯ ðŠð¥ð¶ð€ð¢ðµðªð°ð¯ð¢ð ð€ð°ð¯ðµðŠð¯ðµ ð±ðð¢ðµð§ð°ð³ð®, ð¯ð°ðµð©ðªð¯ðš ðžðŠ ð°ð§ð§ðŠð³ ðªðŽ ð§ðªð¯ð¢ð¯ð€ðªð¢ð ð¢ð¥ð·ðªð€ðŠ. ððŠ ð¢ð³ðŠ ð¯ð°ðµ ð±ð³ð°ð§ðŠðŽðŽðªð°ð¯ð¢ððŽ ð°ð³ ððªð€ðŠð¯ðŽðŠð¥ ð¢ð¥ð·ðªðŽð°ð³ðŽ.
Zach Pandl joins us for an investing masterclass on how to allocate to privacy in the age of AI. He breaks down how Grayscale converted its nine-year-old Zcash trust into an ETF, following the same playbook that took its Bitcoin trust public, and explains why rising AI-powered surveillance is the real catalyst driving renewed interest in financial privacy.
He also details the Ironwood upgrade's quantum resistance improvements, his ZEC targets, and why he's so bullish on the future of privacy related tokens.
Zach Pandl is the Head of Research at Grayscale, a leading digital assets asset manager known for pioneering trust-to-ETF conversions across Bitcoin, Ethereum, and now Zcash.
The Rollup is where the leaders of digital assets and finance converge. Live from the financial capital of the world.
Timestamps:
00:00 Intro
04:41 Cross-Chain Reach Via NEAR Intents
09:50 The Real Catalyst For Zcash
12:05 Ironwood And Quantum Resistance Upgrades
14:52 ZEC Trust To ETF Migration Mechanics
20:35 100% Of Fees Reinvested
Guest Socials:
Zach Pandl X: https://x.com/LowBeta
Grayscale X: https://x.com/grayscale
Grayscale Website: https://www.grayscale.com/
Partners:
If you run concentrated liquidity positions you know the grind. Price moves, you're out of range, you're rebalancing at, like, 3am. 1inch Aqua lets you take a different approach. You can stack multiple positions on the same token balance instead of babysitting a dozen pools, and your tokens never leave your wallet. Your liquidity stays awake, so you can catch up on your sleep. Check it out at https://1inch.com/aqua
---
Dinari - Over 230 1:1 backed tokenized stocks, ETFs & more with dividends. US-based SEC transfer agent. Available on 5+ chains & via API. https://dinari.com/
---
Space and Time is providing verifiable data infrastructure for onchain finance. A decentralized database, blockchain indexer, and ZK coprocessor in one, giving DeFi protocols,stablecoins, and tokenized assets accurate, provable data.
---
Relay is the fastest and most reliable way to swap any token on any chain. Learn more here: https://relay.link/bridge
---
Zama is an open source cryptography company that builds state-of-the-art Fully Homomorphic Encryption (FHE) solutions for blockchain.
Learn more here: https://www.zama.org/
---
ðªð² ðð¿ð ðŒðð¿ ð¯ð²ðð ððŒ ðœð¿ðŒð±ðð°ð² ðµð¶ðŽðµ-ðŸðð®ð¹ð¶ðð, ð»ðŒð»-ð¯ð¶ð®ðð²ð±, ð²ð±ðð°ð®ðð¶ðŒð»ð®ð¹ ð°ðŒð»ðð²ð»ð ð³ðŒð¿ ððµð² ð±ð¶ðŽð¶ðð®ð¹ ð®ððð²ðð ð²ð°ðŒððððð²ðº. ðŠððœðœðŒð¿ð ðð ð¯ð ð°ð¹ð¶ð°ðžð¶ð»ðŽ ð®ð»ð ðŒð³ ððµð² ð¹ð¶ð»ðžð ð¯ð²ð¹ðŒð ð³ðŒð¿ ð³ð¿ð²ð² ð¿ð²ððŒðð¿ð°ð²ð:
Website: https://therollup.co/
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1P6ZeYd...
Podcast: https://therollup.co/category/podcast
Follow us on X: https://www.x.com/therollupco
Follow Rob on X: https://x.com/robbieklages
Follow Andy on X: https://x.com/andyyy
Join our TG group: https://t.me/+TsM1CRpWFgk1NGZh
The Rollup Disclosures: https://goodidea.ventures
ðððŠððððð ðð¥: ðð¯ð·ðŠðŽðµðªð¯ðš ðªð¯ ð€ð³ðºð±ðµð°ð€ð¶ð³ð³ðŠð¯ð€ðº ð¢ð¯ð¥ ððŠððª ð±ðð¢ðµð§ð°ð³ð®ðŽ ð€ð°ð®ðŠðŽ ðžðªðµð© ðªð¯ð©ðŠð³ðŠð¯ðµ ð³ðªðŽð¬ðŽ ðªð¯ð€ðð¶ð¥ðªð¯ðš ðµðŠð€ð©ð¯ðªð€ð¢ð ð³ðªðŽð¬, ð©ð¶ð®ð¢ð¯ ðŠð³ð³ð°ð³, ð±ðð¢ðµð§ð°ð³ð® ð§ð¢ðªðð¶ð³ðŠ ð¢ð¯ð¥ ð®ð°ð³ðŠ. ððµ ð€ðŠð³ðµð¢ðªð¯ ð±ð°ðªð¯ðµðŽ ðµð©ð³ð°ð¶ðšð©ð°ð¶ðµ ðµð©ðªðŽ ð€ð©ð¢ð¯ð¯ðŠð, ðžðŠ ð®ð¢ðº ðŠð¢ð³ð¯ ð¢ ð€ð°ð®ð®ðªðŽðŽðªð°ð¯ ð°ð³ ð§ðŠðŠ ð¢ðŽ ð¢ ðŽð±ð°ð¯ðŽð°ð³ðŽð©ðªð±, ðªð§ ðµð©ðªðŽ ðªðŽ ðµð©ðŠ ð€ð¢ðŽðŠ ðžðŠ ðžðªðð ð¢ððžð¢ðºðŽ ð®ð¢ð¬ðŠ ðŽð¶ð³ðŠ ðªðµ ðªðŽ ð€ððŠð¢ð³. ððŠ ð¢ð³ðŠ ðŽðµð³ðªð€ðµððº ð¢ð¯ ðŠð¥ð¶ð€ð¢ðµðªð°ð¯ð¢ð ð€ð°ð¯ðµðŠð¯ðµ ð±ðð¢ðµð§ð°ð³ð®, ð¯ð°ðµð©ðªð¯ðš ðžðŠ ð°ð§ð§ðŠð³ ðªðŽ ð§ðªð¯ð¢ð¯ð€ðªð¢ð ð¢ð¥ð·ðªð€ðŠ. ððŠ ð¢ð³ðŠ ð¯ð°ðµ ð±ð³ð°ð§ðŠðŽðŽðªð°ð¯ð¢ððŽ ð°ð³ ððªð€ðŠð¯ðŽðŠð¥ ð¢ð¥ð·ðªðŽð°ð³ðŽ.
Alex Cutler breaks down how Coinbase's partnership with Aerodrome turned cbBTC into the top-traded Bitcoin venue onchain within a week, and explains why he believes the same playbook is about to repeat with tokenized equities at a $100 trillion addressable market. He also unpacks Coinbase's thesis that 10% of global GDP could move onchain within five years, and why he thinks true beneficial ownership structures represent a "leapfrog moment" over earlier synthetic tokenized stock attempts.
Alex Cutler is the Co-Founder of Aerodrome and CEO of Dromos Labs, the team behind the leading decentralized exchange on Base and a primary venue for trading tokenized equities.
The Rollup is where the leaders of digital assets and finance converge. Live from the financial capital of the world.
Timestamps:
00:00 Intro
09:22 Coinbase's Wrapped Bitcoin Playbook
13:43 The Revenue Meta Thesis
17:21 10% Of Global GDP Onchain
24:03 Real Ownership Vs Synthetic Tokens
26:04 Coinbase's Leapfrog Moment Explained
Guest Socials:
Alex Cutler X: https://x.com/wagmiAlexander
Aerodrome X: https://x.com/AerodromeFi
Aerodrome Website: https://aerodrome.finance/
Partners:
If you run concentrated liquidity positions you know the grind. Price moves, you're out of range, you're rebalancing at, like, 3am. 1inch Aqua lets you take a different approach. You can stack multiple positions on the same token balance instead of babysitting a dozen pools, and your tokens never leave your wallet. Your liquidity stays awake, so you can catch up on your sleep. Check it out at https://1inch.com/aqua
---
Dinari - Over 230 1:1 backed tokenized stocks, ETFs & more with dividends. US-based SEC transfer agent. Available on 5+ chains & via API. https://dinari.com/
---
Space and Time is providing verifiable data infrastructure for onchain finance. A decentralized database, blockchain indexer, and ZK coprocessor in one, giving DeFi protocols,stablecoins, and tokenized assets accurate, provable data.
---
Relay is the fastest and most reliable way to swap any token on any chain. Learn more here: https://relay.link/bridge
---
Zama is an open source cryptography company that builds state-of-the-art Fully Homomorphic Encryption (FHE) solutions for blockchain.
Learn more here: https://www.zama.org/
---
ðªð² ðð¿ð ðŒðð¿ ð¯ð²ðð ððŒ ðœð¿ðŒð±ðð°ð² ðµð¶ðŽðµ-ðŸðð®ð¹ð¶ðð, ð»ðŒð»-ð¯ð¶ð®ðð²ð±, ð²ð±ðð°ð®ðð¶ðŒð»ð®ð¹ ð°ðŒð»ðð²ð»ð ð³ðŒð¿ ððµð² ð±ð¶ðŽð¶ðð®ð¹ ð®ððð²ðð ð²ð°ðŒððððð²ðº. ðŠððœðœðŒð¿ð ðð ð¯ð ð°ð¹ð¶ð°ðžð¶ð»ðŽ ð®ð»ð ðŒð³ ððµð² ð¹ð¶ð»ðžð ð¯ð²ð¹ðŒð ð³ðŒð¿ ð³ð¿ð²ð² ð¿ð²ððŒðð¿ð°ð²ð:
Website: https://therollup.co/
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1P6ZeYd...
Podcast: https://therollup.co/category/podcast
Follow us on X: https://www.x.com/therollupco
Follow Rob on X: https://x.com/robbieklages
Follow Andy on X: https://x.com/andyyy
Join our TG group: https://t.me/+TsM1CRpWFgk1NGZh
The Rollup Disclosures: https://goodidea.ventures
.
ðððŠððððð ðð¥: ðð¯ð·ðŠðŽðµðªð¯ðš ðªð¯ ð€ð³ðºð±ðµð°ð€ð¶ð³ð³ðŠð¯ð€ðº ð¢ð¯ð¥ ððŠððª ð±ðð¢ðµð§ð°ð³ð®ðŽ ð€ð°ð®ðŠðŽ ðžðªðµð© ðªð¯ð©ðŠð³ðŠð¯ðµ ð³ðªðŽð¬ðŽ ðªð¯ð€ðð¶ð¥ðªð¯ðš ðµðŠð€ð©ð¯ðªð€ð¢ð ð³ðªðŽð¬, ð©ð¶ð®ð¢ð¯ ðŠð³ð³ð°ð³, ð±ðð¢ðµð§ð°ð³ð® ð§ð¢ðªðð¶ð³ðŠ ð¢ð¯ð¥ ð®ð°ð³ðŠ. ððµ ð€ðŠð³ðµð¢ðªð¯ ð±ð°ðªð¯ðµðŽ ðµð©ð³ð°ð¶ðšð©ð°ð¶ðµ ðµð©ðªðŽ ð€ð©ð¢ð¯ð¯ðŠð, ðžðŠ ð®ð¢ðº ðŠð¢ð³ð¯ ð¢ ð€ð°ð®ð®ðªðŽðŽðªð°ð¯ ð°ð³ ð§ðŠðŠ ð¢ðŽ ð¢ ðŽð±ð°ð¯ðŽð°ð³ðŽð©ðªð±, ðªð§ ðµð©ðªðŽ ðªðŽ ðµð©ðŠ ð€ð¢ðŽðŠ ðžðŠ ðžðªðð ð¢ððžð¢ðºðŽ ð®ð¢ð¬ðŠ ðŽð¶ð³ðŠ ðªðµ ðªðŽ ð€ððŠð¢ð³. ððŠ ð¢ð³ðŠ ðŽðµð³ðªð€ðµððº ð¢ð¯ ðŠð¥ð¶ð€ð¢ðµðªð°ð¯ð¢ð ð€ð°ð¯ðµðŠð¯ðµ ð±ðð¢ðµð§ð°ð³ð®, ð¯ð°ðµð©ðªð¯ðš ðžðŠ ð°ð§ð§ðŠð³ ðªðŽ ð§ðªð¯ð¢ð¯ð€ðªð¢ð ð¢ð¥ð·ðªð€ðŠ. ððŠ ð¢ð³ðŠ ð¯ð°ðµ ð±ð³ð°ð§ðŠðŽðŽðªð°ð¯ð¢ððŽ ð°ð³ ððªð€ðŠð¯ðŽðŠð¥ ð¢ð¥ð·ðªðŽð°ð³ðŽ.
Circle's new agentic finance wizard Shafu Elfouly joins us to unpack why he's betting his career on the acceleration of agentic finance. He breaks down x402, the 30-year-old unused HTTP payment status code that stablecoins finally activated, letting AI agents pay for API access with one unified wallet instead of juggling dozens of subscriptions and API keys. He also takes us through Circle's full agent stack offering a glimpse into the future where anyone can deploy an agent with instant USDC payment access, and more.
Shafu Elfouly is a Staff Software Engineer at Circle, working on x402 and the infrastructure powering agentic commerce with USDC.
The Rollup is where the leaders of digital assets and finance converge. Live from the financial capital of the world.
Timestamps:
00:00 Intro
01:47 HTTP & x402 Payments Explained
03:32 Agents Will Spend Billions Online
05:05 99.9% Of Agentic Finance Is USDC
08:42 Integration Takes One Hour To Deploy
10:33 Circle Agent Stack Explained
12:09 Supply Side Is The Bottleneck Now
14:24 Everyone Will Have An Agentic
16:24 Circle & Anthropic Story
18:05 Open Standard Vs Closed Platforms
20:03 AOL Vs Open Internet
22:25 Millions of Agent Transfers Are Happening
24:32 Restaurant Reservations Via Agents
Partners:
If you run concentrated liquidity positions you know the grind. Price moves, you're out of range, you're rebalancing at, like, 3am. 1inch Aqua lets you take a different approach. You can stack multiple positions on the same token balance instead of babysitting a dozen pools, and your tokens never leave your wallet. Your liquidity stays awake, so you can catch up on your sleep. Check it out at https://1inch.com/aqua
---
Dinari - Over 230 1:1 backed tokenized stocks, ETFs & more with dividends. US-based SEC transfer agent. Available on 5+ chains & via API. https://dinari.com/
---
Space and Time is providing verifiable data infrastructure for onchain finance. A decentralized database, blockchain indexer, and ZK coprocessor in one, giving DeFi protocols,stablecoins, and tokenized assets accurate, provable data.
---
Relay is the fastest and most reliable way to swap any token on any chain. Learn more here: https://relay.link/bridge
---
Zama is an open source cryptography company that builds state-of-the-art Fully Homomorphic Encryption (FHE) solutions for blockchain.
Learn more here: https://www.zama.org/
---
ðªð² ðð¿ð ðŒðð¿ ð¯ð²ðð ððŒ ðœð¿ðŒð±ðð°ð² ðµð¶ðŽðµ-ðŸðð®ð¹ð¶ðð, ð»ðŒð»-ð¯ð¶ð®ðð²ð±, ð²ð±ðð°ð®ðð¶ðŒð»ð®ð¹ ð°ðŒð»ðð²ð»ð ð³ðŒð¿ ððµð² ð±ð¶ðŽð¶ðð®ð¹ ð®ððð²ðð ð²ð°ðŒððððð²ðº. ðŠððœðœðŒð¿ð ðð ð¯ð ð°ð¹ð¶ð°ðžð¶ð»ðŽ ð®ð»ð ðŒð³ ððµð² ð¹ð¶ð»ðžð ð¯ð²ð¹ðŒð ð³ðŒð¿ ð³ð¿ð²ð² ð¿ð²ððŒðð¿ð°ð²ð:
Website: https://therollup.co/
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1P6ZeYd...
Podcast: https://therollup.co/category/podcast
Follow us on X: https://www.x.com/therollupco
Follow Rob on X: https://x.com/robbieklages
Follow Andy on X: https://x.com/andyyy
Join our TG group: https://t.me/+TsM1CRpWFgk1NGZh
The Rollup Disclosures: https://goodidea.ventures
ðððŠððððð ðð¥: ðð¯ð·ðŠðŽðµðªð¯ðš ðªð¯ ð€ð³ðºð±ðµð°ð€ð¶ð³ð³ðŠð¯ð€ðº ð¢ð¯ð¥ ððŠððª ð±ðð¢ðµð§ð°ð³ð®ðŽ ð€ð°ð®ðŠðŽ ðžðªðµð© ðªð¯ð©ðŠð³ðŠð¯ðµ ð³ðªðŽð¬ðŽ ðªð¯ð€ðð¶ð¥ðªð¯ðš ðµðŠð€ð©ð¯ðªð€ð¢ð ð³ðªðŽð¬, ð©ð¶ð®ð¢ð¯ ðŠð³ð³ð°ð³, ð±ðð¢ðµð§ð°ð³ð® ð§ð¢ðªðð¶ð³ðŠ ð¢ð¯ð¥ ð®ð°ð³ðŠ. ððµ ð€ðŠð³ðµð¢ðªð¯ ð±ð°ðªð¯ðµðŽ ðµð©ð³ð°ð¶ðšð©ð°ð¶ðµ ðµð©ðªðŽ ð€ð©ð¢ð¯ð¯ðŠð, ðžðŠ ð®ð¢ðº ðŠð¢ð³ð¯ ð¢ ð€ð°ð®ð®ðªðŽðŽðªð°ð¯ ð°ð³ ð§ðŠðŠ ð¢ðŽ ð¢ ðŽð±ð°ð¯ðŽð°ð³ðŽð©ðªð±, ðªð§ ðµð©ðªðŽ ðªðŽ ðµð©ðŠ ð€ð¢ðŽðŠ ðžðŠ ðžðªðð ð¢ððžð¢ðºðŽ ð®ð¢ð¬ðŠ ðŽð¶ð³ðŠ ðªðµ ðªðŽ ð€ððŠð¢ð³. ððŠ ð¢ð³ðŠ ðŽðµð³ðªð€ðµððº ð¢ð¯ ðŠð¥ð¶ð€ð¢ðµðªð°ð¯ð¢ð ð€ð°ð¯ðµðŠð¯ðµ ð±ðð¢ðµð§ð°ð³ð®, ð¯ð°ðµð©ðªð¯ðš ðžðŠ ð°ð§ð§ðŠð³ ðªðŽ ð§ðªð¯ð¢ð¯ð€ðªð¢ð ð¢ð¥ð·ðªð€ðŠ. ððŠ ð¢ð³ðŠ ð¯ð°ðµ ð±ð³ð°ð§ðŠðŽðŽðªð°ð¯ð¢ððŽ ð°ð³ ððªð€ðŠð¯ðŽðŠð¥ ð¢ð¥ð·ðªðŽð°ð³ðŽ.
ARKInvest Digital Asset team Raye Hadi and Lorenzo Valente join us for a state of digital assets special. We debate whether token buybacks actually create value or if the correlation with top performers is just circular logic. They also tackle the trillion dollar question: whether Solana and Ethereum even need to capture fee revenue if they're hosting trillions in assets, and why Hyperliquid's app-layer monetization model might be the smarter blueprint than base-layer fees.
Raye Hadi is a Research Associate in Digital Assets at ARK Invest. Lorenzo Valente is the Director of Research at ARK Invest, a leading investment firm known for its research on disruptive innovation including digital assets.
The Rollup is where the leaders of digital assets and finance converge. Live from the financial capital of the world.
Timestamps:
00:00 Intro
02:52 Perps, Tokenization, Stablecoins, Vaults
07:21 Crypto Equities Vs Tokens Debate
16:03 Regulatory Path Dependency Debate
17:06 Buybacks Correlate With Revenue
19:27 Are Buybacks Actually Stupid
28:12 Do L1s Even Need Revenue
30:11 Does Solana Need To Make Money
30:54 Hyperliquid Internalizes Stablecoin Yield
38:56 Sizing The Meme Coin Market
41:06 Debating Zcash's Place In The Barbell
46:44 Why Privacy And Self Custody Matter
Guest Socials:
Lorenzo Valente X: https://x.com/LorenzoARK
Raye Hadi X: https://x.com/rhadiARK
ARK Invest X: https://x.com/ARKinvest
ARK Invest Website: https://www.ark-invest.com/
Partners:
If you run concentrated liquidity positions you know the grind. Price moves, you're out of range, you're rebalancing at, like, 3am. 1inch Aqua lets you take a different approach. You can stack multiple positions on the same token balance instead of babysitting a dozen pools, and your tokens never leave your wallet. Your liquidity stays awake, so you can catch up on your sleep. Check it out at https://1inch.com/aqua
---
Dinari - Over 230 1:1 backed tokenized stocks, ETFs & more with dividends. US-based SEC transfer agent. Available on 5+ chains & via API. https://dinari.com/
---
Space and Time is providing verifiable data infrastructure for onchain finance. A decentralized database, blockchain indexer, and ZK coprocessor in one, giving DeFi protocols,stablecoins, and tokenized assets accurate, provable data.
---
Relay is the fastest and most reliable way to swap any token on any chain. Learn more here: https://relay.link/bridge
---
Zama is an open source cryptography company that builds state-of-the-art Fully Homomorphic Encryption (FHE) solutions for blockchain.
Learn more here: https://www.zama.org/
---
ðªð² ðð¿ð ðŒðð¿ ð¯ð²ðð ððŒ ðœð¿ðŒð±ðð°ð² ðµð¶ðŽðµ-ðŸðð®ð¹ð¶ðð, ð»ðŒð»-ð¯ð¶ð®ðð²ð±, ð²ð±ðð°ð®ðð¶ðŒð»ð®ð¹ ð°ðŒð»ðð²ð»ð. ðŠððœðœðŒð¿ð ðð ð¯ð ð°ð¹ð¶ð°ðžð¶ð»ðŽ ð®ð»ð ðŒð³ ððµð² ð¹ð¶ð»ðžð ð¯ð²ð¹ðŒð:
Website: https://therollup.co/
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1P6ZeYd...
Podcast: https://therollup.co/category/podcast
Follow us on X: https://www.x.com/therollupco
Follow Rob on X: https://x.com/robbieklages
Follow Andy on X: https://x.com/andyyy
Join our TG group: https://t.me/+TsM1CRpWFgk1NGZh
The Rollup Disclosures: https://goodidea.ventures
ðððŠððððð ðð¥: ðð¯ð·ðŠðŽðµðªð¯ðš ðªð¯ ð€ð³ðºð±ðµð°ð€ð¶ð³ð³ðŠð¯ð€ðº ð¢ð¯ð¥ ððŠððª ð±ðð¢ðµð§ð°ð³ð®ðŽ ð€ð°ð®ðŠðŽ ðžðªðµð© ðªð¯ð©ðŠð³ðŠð¯ðµ ð³ðªðŽð¬ðŽ ðªð¯ð€ðð¶ð¥ðªð¯ðš ðµðŠð€ð©ð¯ðªð€ð¢ð ð³ðªðŽð¬, ð©ð¶ð®ð¢ð¯ ðŠð³ð³ð°ð³, ð±ðð¢ðµð§ð°ð³ð® ð§ð¢ðªðð¶ð³ðŠ ð¢ð¯ð¥ ð®ð°ð³ðŠ. ððµ ð€ðŠð³ðµð¢ðªð¯ ð±ð°ðªð¯ðµðŽ ðµð©ð³ð°ð¶ðšð©ð°ð¶ðµ ðµð©ðªðŽ ð€ð©ð¢ð¯ð¯ðŠð, ðžðŠ ð®ð¢ðº ðŠð¢ð³ð¯ ð¢ ð€ð°ð®ð®ðªðŽðŽðªð°ð¯ ð°ð³ ð§ðŠðŠ ð¢ðŽ ð¢ ðŽð±ð°ð¯ðŽð°ð³ðŽð©ðªð±, ðªð§ ðµð©ðªðŽ ðªðŽ ðµð©ðŠ ð€ð¢ðŽðŠ ðžðŠ ðžðªðð ð¢ððžð¢ðºðŽ ð®ð¢ð¬ðŠ ðŽð¶ð³ðŠ ðªðµ ðªðŽ ð€ððŠð¢ð³. ððŠ ð¢ð³ðŠ ðŽðµð³ðªð€ðµððº ð¢ð¯ ðŠð¥ð¶ð€ð¢ðµðªð°ð¯ð¢ð ð€ð°ð¯ðµðŠð¯ðµ ð±ðð¢ðµð§ð°ð³ð®, ð¯ð°ðµð©ðªð¯ðš ðžðŠ ð°ð§ð§ðŠð³ ðªðŽ ð§ðªð¯ð¢ð¯ð€ðªð¢ð ð¢ð¥ð·ðªð€ðŠ. ððŠ ð¢ð³ðŠ ð¯ð°ðµ ð±ð³ð°ð§ðŠðŽðŽðªð°ð¯ð¢ððŽ ð°ð³ ððªð€ðŠð¯ðŽðŠð¥ ð¢ð¥ð·ðªðŽð°ð³ðŽ.
Mert Mumtaz and Dev, the Osmosis founder now leading Zcash scaling at Valor Group, join us to explain the massive developments in Zcash as of late.
The two of them break down how over 90% of Zcash's supply migrated out of the Orchard pool following the Ironwood upgrade, addressing the vulnerability fears that spread across the community. They also unpack the upcoming Tachyon upgrade's post-quantum vision, and exactly how Zcash will get there.
Mert Mumtaz is the CEO of Helius, a leading Solana infrastructure provider.
Dev is the Founder of Osmosis and now leads Valor Group, a company dedicated to scaling Zcash.
The Rollup is where the leaders of digital assets and finance converge. Live from the financial capital of the world.
Timestamps:
00:00 Intro
04:13 90% Of Zcash Migrated From Orchard Pool
07:27 What Actually Happened?
10:03 Formal Verification Explained
14:07 Zcash Is Still Early
19:56 ZK Explainer
22:53 Quantum Resistance Claims
25:16 One Big Upgrade Coming
31:02 Will Bitcoin Be Ready For Quantum?
Guest Socials:
Mert X: https://x.com/mert
Helius X: https://x.com/Helius
Helius Website: https://www.helius.dev/
Dev X: https://x.com/zkDragon
Osmosis X: https://x.com/osmosis
Osmosis Website: https://osmosis.zone/
Partners:
If you run concentrated liquidity positions you know the grind. Price moves, you're out of range, you're rebalancing at, like, 3am. 1inch Aqua lets you take a different approach. You can stack multiple positions on the same token balance instead of babysitting a dozen pools, and your tokens never leave your wallet. Your liquidity stays awake, so you can catch up on your sleep. Check it out at https://1inch.com/aqua
---
Dinari - Over 230 1:1 backed tokenized stocks, ETFs & more with dividends. US-based SEC transfer agent. Available on 5+ chains & via API. https://dinari.com/
---
Space and Time is providing verifiable data infrastructure for onchain finance. A decentralized database, blockchain indexer, and ZK coprocessor in one, giving DeFi protocols,stablecoins, and tokenized assets accurate, provable data.
---
Relay is the fastest and most reliable way to swap any token on any chain. Learn more here: https://relay.link/bridge
---
Zama is an open source cryptography company that builds state-of-the-art Fully Homomorphic Encryption (FHE) solutions for blockchain.
Learn more here: https://www.zama.org/
---
ðªð² ðð¿ð ðŒðð¿ ð¯ð²ðð ððŒ ðœð¿ðŒð±ðð°ð² ðµð¶ðŽðµ-ðŸðð®ð¹ð¶ðð, ð»ðŒð»-ð¯ð¶ð®ðð²ð±, ð²ð±ðð°ð®ðð¶ðŒð»ð®ð¹ ð°ðŒð»ðð²ð»ð ð³ðŒð¿ ððµð² ð±ð¶ðŽð¶ðð®ð¹ ð®ððð²ðð ð²ð°ðŒððððð²ðº. ðŠððœðœðŒð¿ð ðð ð¯ð ð°ð¹ð¶ð°ðžð¶ð»ðŽ ð®ð»ð ðŒð³ ððµð² ð¹ð¶ð»ðžð ð¯ð²ð¹ðŒð ð³ðŒð¿ ð³ð¿ð²ð² ð¿ð²ððŒðð¿ð°ð²ð:
Website: https://therollup.co/
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1P6ZeYd...
Podcast: https://therollup.co/category/podcast
Follow us on X: https://www.x.com/therollupco
Follow Rob on X: https://x.com/robbieklages
Follow Andy on X: https://x.com/andyyy
Join our TG group: https://t.me/+TsM1CRpWFgk1NGZh
The Rollup Disclosures: https://goodidea.ventures
ðððŠððððð ðð¥: ðð¯ð·ðŠðŽðµðªð¯ðš ðªð¯ ð€ð³ðºð±ðµð°ð€ð¶ð³ð³ðŠð¯ð€ðº ð¢ð¯ð¥ ððŠððª ð±ðð¢ðµð§ð°ð³ð®ðŽ ð€ð°ð®ðŠðŽ ðžðªðµð© ðªð¯ð©ðŠð³ðŠð¯ðµ ð³ðªðŽð¬ðŽ ðªð¯ð€ðð¶ð¥ðªð¯ðš ðµðŠð€ð©ð¯ðªð€ð¢ð ð³ðªðŽð¬, ð©ð¶ð®ð¢ð¯ ðŠð³ð³ð°ð³, ð±ðð¢ðµð§ð°ð³ð® ð§ð¢ðªðð¶ð³ðŠ ð¢ð¯ð¥ ð®ð°ð³ðŠ. ððµ ð€ðŠð³ðµð¢ðªð¯ ð±ð°ðªð¯ðµðŽ ðµð©ð³ð°ð¶ðšð©ð°ð¶ðµ ðµð©ðªðŽ ð€ð©ð¢ð¯ð¯ðŠð, ðžðŠ ð®ð¢ðº ðŠð¢ð³ð¯ ð¢ ð€ð°ð®ð®ðªðŽðŽðªð°ð¯ ð°ð³ ð§ðŠðŠ ð¢ðŽ ð¢ ðŽð±ð°ð¯ðŽð°ð³ðŽð©ðªð±, ðªð§ ðµð©ðªðŽ ðªðŽ ðµð©ðŠ ð€ð¢ðŽðŠ ðžðŠ ðžðªðð ð¢ððžð¢ðºðŽ ð®ð¢ð¬ðŠ ðŽð¶ð³ðŠ ðªðµ ðªðŽ ð€ððŠð¢ð³. ððŠ ð¢ð³ðŠ ðŽðµð³ðªð€ðµððº ð¢ð¯ ðŠð¥ð¶ð€ð¢ðµðªð°ð¯ð¢ð ð€ð°ð¯ðµðŠð¯ðµ ð±ðð¢ðµð§ð°ð³ð®, ð¯ð°ðµð©ðªð¯ðš ðžðŠ ð°ð§ð§ðŠð³ ðªðŽ ð§ðªð¯ð¢ð¯ð€ðªð¢ð ð¢ð¥ð·ðªð€ðŠ. ððŠ ð¢ð³ðŠ ð¯ð°ðµ ð±ð³ð°ð§ðŠðŽðŽðªð°ð¯ð¢ððŽ ð°ð³ ððªð€ðŠð¯ðŽðŠð¥ ð¢ð¥ð·ðªðŽð°ð³ðŽ.
Rain Co-Founder Charles Yoo-Naut joins us for a look underneath the exploding neobank sector, which has exploded from $5m/month to $250m+/month in crypto-card volume in less than a year.
He breaks down how Rain went from a stablecoin-backed card issuer for crypto-native DAOs to a platform powering over 200 card programs, including a landmark partnership with Western Union and more.
Charles Yoo-Naut is the Co-Founder and CTO of Rain, a stablecoin-backed card issuing platform that powers programs for Western Union and 200+ other partners.
The Rollup is where the leaders of digital assets and finance converge. Live from the financial capital of the world.
Timestamps:
00:00 Intro
02:52 Stablecoins Spent Instantly On Visa
04:09 Built For Underbanked Digital Asset Teams
05:16 200 Programs Now Powered By Rain
09:44 Rain Powers Western Union Cards
12:27 How Rain Makes Money
15:00 Stablecoin Spend Data Revealed
18:00 Genius Act Impact On Rain
21:00 Compliance Licensing Takes Years
24:00 You Cannot Vibe Code Rain
28:23 Co-Founder Dynamic Explained
30:31 Building With AI From Day One
Guest Socials:
Charles Yoo-Naut X: https://x.com/cnaut
Rain X: https://x.com/raincards
Rain Website: https://www.rain.xyz/
Partners:
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Dinari - Over 230 1:1 backed tokenized stocks, ETFs & more with dividends. US-based SEC transfer agent. Available on 5+ chains & via API. https://dinari.com/
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Space and Time is providing verifiable data infrastructure for onchain finance. A decentralized database, blockchain indexer, and ZK coprocessor in one, giving DeFi protocols,stablecoins, and tokenized assets accurate, provable data.
Learn more here: https://www.spaceandtime.io/
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Relay is the fastest and most reliable way to swap any token on any chain. Learn more here: https://relay.link/bridge
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Zama is an open source cryptography company that builds state-of-the-art Fully Homomorphic Encryption (FHE) solutions for blockchain.
Learn more here: https://www.zama.org/
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ðªð² ðð¿ð ðŒðð¿ ð¯ð²ðð ððŒ ðœð¿ðŒð±ðð°ð² ðµð¶ðŽðµ-ðŸðð®ð¹ð¶ðð, ð»ðŒð»-ð¯ð¶ð®ðð²ð±, ð²ð±ðð°ð®ðð¶ðŒð»ð®ð¹ ð°ðŒð»ðð²ð»ð ð³ðŒð¿ ððµð² ð±ð¶ðŽð¶ðð®ð¹ ð®ððð²ðð ð²ð°ðŒððððð²ðº. ðŠððœðœðŒð¿ð ðð ð¯ð ð°ð¹ð¶ð°ðžð¶ð»ðŽ ð®ð»ð ðŒð³ ððµð² ð¹ð¶ð»ðžð ð¯ð²ð¹ðŒð ð³ðŒð¿ ð³ð¿ð²ð² ð¿ð²ððŒðð¿ð°ð²ð:
Website: https://therollup.co/
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1P6ZeYd...
Podcast: https://therollup.co/category/podcast
Follow us on X: https://www.x.com/therollupco
Follow Rob on X: https://x.com/robbieklages
Follow Andy on X: https://x.com/andyyy
Join our TG group: https://t.me/+TsM1CRpWFgk1NGZh
The Rollup Disclosures: https://goodidea.ventures
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ðððŠððððð ðð¥: ðð¯ð·ðŠðŽðµðªð¯ðš ðªð¯ ð€ð³ðºð±ðµð°ð€ð¶ð³ð³ðŠð¯ð€ðº ð¢ð¯ð¥ ððŠððª ð±ðð¢ðµð§ð°ð³ð®ðŽ ð€ð°ð®ðŠðŽ ðžðªðµð© ðªð¯ð©ðŠð³ðŠð¯ðµ ð³ðªðŽð¬ðŽ ðªð¯ð€ðð¶ð¥ðªð¯ðš ðµðŠð€ð©ð¯ðªð€ð¢ð ð³ðªðŽð¬, ð©ð¶ð®ð¢ð¯ ðŠð³ð³ð°ð³, ð±ðð¢ðµð§ð°ð³ð® ð§ð¢ðªðð¶ð³ðŠ ð¢ð¯ð¥ ð®ð°ð³ðŠ. ððµ ð€ðŠð³ðµð¢ðªð¯ ð±ð°ðªð¯ðµðŽ ðµð©ð³ð°ð¶ðšð©ð°ð¶ðµ ðµð©ðªðŽ ð€ð©ð¢ð¯ð¯ðŠð, ðžðŠ ð®ð¢ðº ðŠð¢ð³ð¯ ð¢ ð€ð°ð®ð®ðªðŽðŽðªð°ð¯ ð°ð³ ð§ðŠðŠ ð¢ðŽ ð¢ ðŽð±ð°ð¯ðŽð°ð³ðŽð©ðªð±, ðªð§ ðµð©ðªðŽ ðªðŽ ðµð©ðŠ ð€ð¢ðŽðŠ ðžðŠ ðžðªðð ð¢ððžð¢ðºðŽ ð®ð¢ð¬ðŠ ðŽð¶ð³ðŠ ðªðµ ðªðŽ ð€ððŠð¢ð³. ððŠ ð¢ð³ðŠ ðŽðµð³ðªð€ðµððº ð¢ð¯ ðŠð¥ð¶ð€ð¢ðµðªð°ð¯ð¢ð ð€ð°ð¯ðµðŠð¯ðµ ð±ðð¢ðµð§ð°ð³ð®, ð¯ð°ðµð©ðªð¯ðš ðžðŠ ð°ð§ð§ðŠð³ ðªðŽ ð§ðªð¯ð¢ð¯ð€ðªð¢ð ð¢ð¥ð·ðªð€ðŠ. ððŠ ð¢ð³ðŠ ð¯ð°ðµ ð±ð³ð°ð§ðŠðŽðŽðªð°ð¯ð¢ððŽ ð°ð³ ððªð€ðŠð¯ðŽðŠð¥ ð¢ð¥ð·ðªðŽð°ð³ðŽ.
How this was made