Show notes
The role of the Military Tribune with Consular Power (tribuni militum consulari potestate) is very particular. It seems to have been created out of the need for a new way forward from the role of the consuls. In our previous episode we encountered them for the first time as part of a patrician plan to placate plebeian discontent in 445 BCE, but our ability to understand this period is complicated by a number of issues: How much did annalist historians like Livy and Dionysius of Halicarnassus understand about the early republic? What sources were they able to consult to verify their research into this unusual feature of Rome’s politics? And how might their view by further influenced by the ideas they retroject back into the early republic from the Augustan era they are writing under? Both Livy and Dionysius of Halicarnassus talk a little bit about their sources around this subject. Livy makes specific reference to the writer Licinius Macer while Dionysius makes note of the discrepancies in the various annalist records. Episode 124 – The Military Tribunes with Consular Power As Rome transitions into 444 BCE we find out about our first elected Military Tribunes with Consular Power, but it’s not long before ambassadors from Ardea arrive to discuss their ongoing conflict involving Rome… Things to listen out for: A misplaced assertion of proconsular power A very special eagle sound effect Some unfortunate problems with the auspices! Our Players Military Tribunes with Consular Power 444 BCE Aulus Sempronius A. f. – n. Atratinus Lucius Atilius -f. -n. Luscus Titus Cloelius – f. -n. Siculus Suffect consuls of 444 BCE Lucius Papirius – f. – n. Mugillanus Lucius Sempronius A. f. – n. Atratinus Interrex 444 BCE Titus Quinctius Capitolinus Barbartus (consul many times) Sources Dr G reads Dionysius of Halicarnassus, Roman Antiquities, 11.61-62. Dr Rad reads Livy ab Urbe Condita 4.7. Broughton, T. R. S., Patterson, M. L. 1951. The Magistrates of the Roman Republic Volume 1: 509 B.C. – 100 B.C. (The American Philological Association) Cornell, T. J. 1995. The Beginnings of Rome: Italy and Rome from the Bronze Age to the Punic Wars (c. 1000-264 BC) (Taylor & Francis) Forsythe, G. 2006. A Critical History of Early Rome: From Prehistory to the First Punic War(University of California Press) Sound Credits Thanks to BBC Sounds (Beta) for sound effects and the wonderful Bettina Joy de Guzman for our theme music. Imperial Roman Veterans, an illustration by Peter Dennis as part of the Warlord Games ‘Hail Caesar’ miniatures. Automatically Generated Transcript We’re exploring transcription options! The transcript below was automatically generated by otter.ai. Hopefully those Latin names and places can still be understood! Dr Rad 0:00All right. Welcome to a brand new episode of the partial historians. I am one of your hosts, Dr. Rad. Dr G 0:09And I am Dr. G. And what a thrill it is to be here for this episode. Dr Rad 0:15I know. So we have been tracing the history of Rome from the founding of the city. And last episode was kind of a turning point. So let’s do a bit of a recap, shall we? Dr. G? Dr G 0:26Oh, yes. So we’ve had this really sort of quite dramatic moment for the Romans in terms of how they think about their politics. Yes. And for Livy, and Dionysus of helican S’s this issue has been framed around class struggle, patricians versus plebeians. And we’ve had this play for power from the plebeians being like we would like actually to be part of the consulship. That might be nice. Dr Rad 0:51And while you’re at it, we’d also like to be able to marry patricians because it seems a bit like segregation, otherwise, Dr G 0:59it is awkward. Yeah. To be ruled by people, and for there to be no class mobility. Yes, exactly. And this has led to what appears to be a very dastardly plan on the half of the patrician side, where they’re like, look, it would be absolutely a sacred travesty to allow the plebeians to be consoles, because it’s not just a Magister see of law. It has a ritual component, there are relationships with the gods to be maintained. Dr Rad 1:33Get your goofy little bean paws off the consulship. Dr G 1:36You’re tainted, you can’t be part of this. Dr Rad 1:39This is an us thing, not a wee thing. Yeah. Dr G 1:43And so the patricians are a bit like that. And on the other hand, they’ve decided that the crisis is so overwhelming, because Rome is basically facing war on every side true, surrounded by potential enemies, and they really need to raise an army. And they’re like, We need the plebeians involved, because we’ve got to have fodder on the field. Dr Rad 2:01Yeah. And they are also much larger group than. Dr G 2:06And in order to do that, they need to feel more than two armies, because usually consoles will lead an army each, but two armies is not going to be enough. So they’ve got a numbers issue, both at the command level, and at the rank and file soldier level. Definitely. They’re like, how are we going to solve that? And they come up with a plan, the patricians come up with a cunning plan. Dr Rad 2:29Oh, sorry, that’s evil. Well, you know what? I think? I think it goes, I think it goes, Dr G 2:33I think you’re in very safe territory. And this cunning plan is to take the concept of the military Tribune, yes. Who is a figure who is kind of selected as they get brought into the army to lead a small group? Yeah. And to give them consular power, not the whole bag, they don’t get to be consoles, you don’t get the title. No, the title is the thing. You don’t get the title, you don’t get the capacity to move into the Senate later on in your career. But if you’re a military Tribune, with consular power, yeah, a bit of a mouthful, I know. But the Romans are into that kind of thing. And that if you hold that position, what happens then is that all of a sudden, you’ve got the capacity to create more numerous armies more than two, yes. And you can send them out in any direction you need to Yeah, and get the stuff done, because they will have the legitimate legal authority, yes, to lead an army. Dr Rad 3:28And we spoke last time about how, whilst our sources are very much pushing the idea that this is part of the conflict of the orders. And this is a turning point in the relationship between the patricians and the plebeians and how they see themselves belonging to the Roman state, etc. What most historians definitely see as being the case is that this is also part of just the evolution of Rome as a state in terms of obviously, governments change and systems change as circumstances and demographics change. And so, you know, sure room does seem to have been going through a tough period, if we look at other types of evidence, like archaeological evidence. And so it’s possible that Rome did need to have a sort of regroup moment where they thought, Hmm, how is this all going to work for Rome now, rather than Rome, say, you know, 50 to 100, maybe even a couple of 100 years ago. Dr G 4:20And we’re seeing that sense in which Rome is in a constant state of change. Yes. And obviously, this runs in direct contrast to the things that the patricians really like we choose tradition and stability. Dr Rad 4:33Imagine, imagine in 2022 this words, they just seem so alien coming out of your mouth, Dr G 4:40tradition and stability. That is what we will provide patricians. Yeah. Dr Rad 4:44So this decision to allow for military tribunals with consular authority, as well as the fact that they did indeed overturn this marriage law, which forbid the intermarriage of patricians and plebeians. Apparently, it does. actually appears that A, B and C and levies account. So that does actually it is balm to the wound. Dr G 5:05Yes, I’m interested in what Libby thinks about this because it plays out in a very particular way in Dionysius of Halicarnassus. And I definitely want to tell you about it, but I’m keen to understand what Levy’s perspective. Dr Rad 5:18Okay, so, essentially, the way that it starts to unfold is that there are these elections which take place, obviously, once they’ve decided that this can be a thing. And the idea is that you could choose three of these tributes with consular power. So lots of Colombians are running around trying to rally support for themselves because they’re just so excited. Oh, my God, I could do it. I could do it. I’m going to the prom. They’re wearing their target candy. It is. I think you get a slight patrician bias coming through Levy’s account. Not yet. Not that. Yeah. But yeah, it is that sort of upper class bias. I should perhaps say where he’s kind of like, you can’t believe that this is happening. It’s so doubloon. Yeah. And he obviously sees these people as being troublemakers the way that he talks about them. He’s like, these troublemakers. You know, they’ve done nothing but bad things for the state and look at them in their target can’t do this. It’s rope bolting. Anyway, the patrician Nobody’s Fool. Dr G 6:16Nobody’s Fool. Yeah. Dr Rad 6:17They’re patricians. Looking around as well, and kind of horror and I think they’re a bit lost. It’s like getting punched in the face and someone ran away. Because it’s so much for being competition because they’re all so excited. And because they bringing so much energy because it’s safer selection guys. And they think, Oh, God, we really want to like, I don’t know, like work with Cool beans. That seems not ideal. And so they’re not so keen on standing for office. They can like, you know, just take myself out of this situation. Dr G 6:47I don’t need to stand this year. I’m out. Yeah, Dr Rad 6:51it’s not my thing. The patrician leading patricians, I should say, however, they’re like, Guys, you can’t just step aside and let the Libyans run the show that would look like the patricians are just getting off on Rome all together and out of the government, Dr G 7:06so don’t like it anymore. And I’m not gonna do it. Dr Rad 7:09Well, they end up being convinced that Yeah, yeah. So as we have to represent, and then of course, it this is all just farcical because when the election actually rolls around, it shows that people just wanted the option of having fob and to rule the state. What? Because the people all elect patricians to be these military Tribune’s according to his account. Dr G 7:34This doesn’t make any sense. Yeah, Dr Rad 7:36I know. It’s look, it’s a bit. But anyway, so yeah, that’s kind of how it all my fees account Dr G 7:46how, what an anti climax I have to say, Dr Rad 7:48Yeah, but it’s gonna get worse in the next year. This is just rounding off for 45. All right. Dr G 7:53All right. So to that end, in comparison, there seems to be a good synergy and parallel between Livy and Dionysius of Halicarnassus. Okay, basically, the people the plebeians, love this idea of this military tributary with control of power like this is their way in and they’re like, Yes, take that opportunity with both hands. Yes, people do heaps of canvassing, they’re having a great time. The plebeians kind of look at their own going around and nominating themselves for the position and they like you’re an idiot, I would never vote for you. I’d been out with you on cap just not gonna happen. I’ve seen what you’ve done. And so even though the plebeians are now sort of like looking at their own with the possibility of being able to vote the meat, they can’t bring themselves to do it. Okay. And so, I mean, it’s just massive, dramatic irony, I think. Because we’ve got this situation where they’re like, Oh, well, actually, I mean, I’m going to vote for who I think is the best candidate. And lo and behold, it turns out that they all vote for patricians. They’ve got more experience. They’ve been in the role before, you know, they’ve had that high level command, what whatever they come from a distinguished military family. So you know, presumably, being a good general has been passed down through the ages. Yeah. And it’s just baffling. Having said that, some of the names that come through for this we have not seen before. Dr Rad 9:17Oh, are we going to go into 444 BCE? Well, not yet. No. Oh, really? Okay. The names are minor and 444 BC, and I was going to do a little Dr G 9:26let’s do a little doodly doo. I think it’s a good time for doodly doo. Okay. Who gets voted in new say, Yeah, well, I’ve got some names for you. Okay. I’ve got candidates, men of distinction, namely, all a sudden peroneus at her rottenness, Dr Rad 9:47yeah, that’s a weird name. Yeah. Huh. at 13 at 13 atheria. Tina’s Yeah, Dr G 9:52Lucien Achilleas. Loose kiss Hmm. Bit of a mouthful as well. Dr Rad 9:58Hey, there’s remember names that sound like me. case. Dr G 10:02And Titus, clue alias Siculus. Dr Rad 10:05I also have those names down in my account. And even though they are allegedly or patrician, some of those names Dr. G, Dr G 10:14some of these names we have not seen before holding high office. So there might be some speculation to be had about who these people really are. Yeah. But that’s nevertheless what we told. Indeed, Dionysius then does this weird thing. And it’s it comes through in the translation. So I don’t know if I should blame him directly or, or blame the translator. But he calls these men that assume Pro Concealer power. Oh, but there’s a bit of a mistake here. So I want to just give a bit of a pause, because this is a term that people hear all the time when they’re doing Roman history. Pro Concealer power. Yeah. What is that? Exactly? Dr Rad 10:53I don’t think we’ve really talked about that. Because that’s comes in much late comes in much later. Yeah, Dr G 10:57so it’s really misplaced here. And that should be the first flag definitely, that when we’re not in the period of history where we understand Pro Controller power to be happening. No. And yet it creeps in in Dionysius, because we’ve got this bit of a retro reaction happening. This is how he’s understanding it, or interpreting it for his audience to appreciate what this power is. Well, I Dr Rad 11:17can see the similarity with military children’s with concealer power, and what a Proconsul essentially has. Yeah, yeah. Dr G 11:23So when we’re talking about Pro Concealer, power comes from the Latin phrase pro con su li, which means instead of the consoles, right, that’s essentially its basic thing. So there are a state official who exercises controller power. So that is Imperium. Yeah. So that’s the basic side of things, not the ritual side of things. Yeah. Outside of the city. But importantly, they’re not allowed to consult the auspices, right? So they can’t look for special signs, Dr Rad 11:50which would track with what military tribunes with consular authority was trying to avoid in the first place, which is plebeians doing things like taking your services? Dr G 11:59Well, the thing is that as far as we can tell, the military Tribune’s with controller power could consult the auspices interesting Dr Rad 12:05Well, then why not just make them consoles never. Dr G 12:09That’s not how it works. Dr Rad 12:15Oh, God room room. Dr G 12:18It’s the thing is that the military tribunes with consular power is all about keeping replicating the Bolivian Yes, but also keeping them out of class advancement. So yes, not being able to get into the Senate. Yeah, not being able to progress by stealth as it were into the patrician class. What. Wait a minute. I’m noticing like, oh, yeah, we’ll have another that patricians don’t want that. Yeah. But they do have the capacity to do this almost beside of things concerning the organs is something they’re allowed to do, apparently. Dr Rad 12:56Okay. The reason why I’m confused is because in case anybody remembers from previous episode, the patricians were kicking up such a stink about them becoming consoles, because of things like, you know, consulting the auspices. Am I wrong? Am I miss remembering? Dr G 13:11No, I don’t think so. Yeah, and yet, so this piece of information has come in part from studies that have been don…
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