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Don't Stop Networking, Just Do It DifferentlyInterview with Dr. Ivan Misner Dr. Ivan Misner is the Founder & Chief Visionary Officer of BNI, the world’s largest business networking organization. Founded in 1985 the organization now has over 9,400 chapters throughout every populated continent of the world. Last year alone, BNI generated almost 12.3 million referrals resulting in $16.7 billion dollars worth of business for its members. Dr. Misner’s Ph.D. is from the University of Southern California. He is a New York Times Bestselling author who has written 24 books including one of his latest books – Who’s in Your Room? He is also a columnist for Entrepreneur.com and has been a university professor as well as a member of the Board of Trustees for the University of La Verne. Called the “Father of Modern Networking” by CNN and one of the “Top Networking Experts” by Forbes, Dr. Misner is considered to be one of the world’s leading experts on business networking and has been a keynote speaker for major corporations and associations throughout the world. He has been featured in the L.A. Times, Wall Street Journal, and New York. Times, as well as numerous TV and radio shows including CNN, the BBC and The Today Show on NBC. Among his many awards, he has been named “Humanitarian of the Year” by the Red Cross and was recently the recipient of the John C. Maxwell Leadership Award. He is also proud to be the Co-Founder of the BNI Charitable Foundation. He and his wife, Elisabeth, are now “empty nesters” with three adult children. Oh, and in his spare time, he is also an amateur magician and a black belt in karate. More information at: www.bni.com www.ivanmisner.com Read the Interview Hugh Ballou: Greetings everyone. This is Hugh Ballou. Welcome back to a new episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, where we talk to leaders and get their secrets to success, what they found that’s worked, what didn’t work, what’s their wisdom. Each week is a different person from a different place with a different experience, but they have a passion for excellence. Today’s guest is the founder of a really neat networking group called BNI. I will let him tell you a little bit about BNI. I have been a member over the years, and I have done networking as a nonprofit leader, as a church professional, and as a business professional. I find out that networking is as misunderstood as leadership is. There are a whole lot more varieties of what people call networking, but Ivan Misner stands alone as a person who has developed a whole new system for networking. Ivan, welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange today. Ivan Misner: Hugh, thank you very much for having me here. You’re right. I am the founder of BNI. We have now 9,500 groups in more than 70 countries around the world. But what you may not know about me is I have spent some time in the nonprofit world. My second management job was as an assistant to the president of a nonprofit transportation business in Los Angeles called Commuter Transportation Services, Inc., which was rideshare before there was Uber. It was computers bigger than this room to set up rideshares. It was funded mostly by the government and private corporations. I worked there for a while. I have been on the boards of nonprofit organizations for more than 30 years. Lot of experience in the nonprofit world. Hugh: You know some of the challenges that nonprofits are facing. Today, even more challenges. I like to say that, in the words of my co-publisher of our magazine and friend Jeff Magee, we suck at networking. Suck is halfway to success. Ivan: I like it. Hugh: I stole that from him, but I give him attribution. We go into a crowded room and say, “Hey, it looks like the stock market. We are trying to bid higher than the next person.” But I found my experience in BNI to be relationship-building and also the people I met there, I still know. I’m not active in that anymore. Life has taken me different places. I moved; I didn’t get out purposefully. I found it is multi-dimensional. Let’s go back. When did you found BNI, and why? Ivan: I started BNI in January of 1985. I was a management consultant. I helped companies with hiring, training, and evaluating employees. I got most of my business through referrals. I was looking for referrals. I went to a lot of networking groups, and the groups I went to were just playing mercenary. I’d go to these meetings, and I felt like I’d been slimed, and I needed to go home and get a shower. Everyone was trying to sell to me. Everyone was trying to sell. I didn’t like that. I went to these other groups that were totally social; it was happy hour and hors d’oeuvres. Nobody was doing business. I didn’t like either of those groups. I wanted the business, but I didn’t want it to be mercenary. I wanted the social, but I wanted it to be relational. What I did was merge this concept of business and relational, and the glue that would hold it together is our principal core value of Givers Gain. This idea of that if I help you, you’ll help me, and we’ll all do better. Hugh, I’d like to tell you that I had this vision of an international organization, but I just wanted some referrals for my consulting practice. I wanted to help my friends. One thing led to another, and it turned into two, to 10, to 20 groups. By the time it hit 20 groups, I realized, and it happened in less than a year, that I had struck a chord in the business community. We don’t teach this in colleges and universities, even in business. I get it. You’re a nonprofit. You feel like you aren’t prepared. But business isn’t prepared either. We don’t teach this in school. That’s when it hit me that we needed to teach this and provide a platform for businesspeople. We now have 9,500 groups in more than 70 countries. Hugh: 9,500 groups. We have people from a couple countries here, Algeria and Texas. Ivan: Texas is its own country. Hugh: We are in the south. We think California is another country, but we are confused about Texas. Ivan: I grew up in California. It is another country. Hugh: It will fall off in the ocean someday. What my mission is is to help nonprofit leaders think out of their box to learn some really good business principles. Sometimes, in networking, we do the inverse. We don’t want to ask anybody for anything. Or we come from a position of need. “Oh, I need this. Help us.” Tell me about the framing that nonprofit leaders, we have clergy, we have executive directors, we have board chairs, we have people in what we like to call the for-purpose, not for-profit, community. What is the mindset we need to have as we approach networking? Ivan: I think the first mindset, and it’s something I teach everyone and I think applies in the nonprofit world just as much as in the for-profit, is the foundation of networking is something I call the VCP process: Visibility, Credibility, Profitability. You first have to be visible. People have to know who you are and what you do. Then you move from visibility to credibility. People know who you are, what you do, and that you’re good at it. That takes a long time to go from visibility to credibility. But when you get to credibility, then you can move to profitability, where people know who you are, what you do, that you’re good at it, and they are willing to refer people to you. They are willing to bring people to you, whether it be a for-profit enterprise or a nonprofit enterprise. They are willing to refer you, support you, help you. That takes time. Networking is much more about farming than it is about hunting. It’s about cultivating relationships with other business professionals. I think this fits the nonprofit world well, but I don’t think the nonprofit world knows that. They keep thinking they’re different. The VCP process applies to both. Hugh: Absolutely. We have this brilliance we can offer. We feed people, we clothe people, we help people get jobs. We do all this philanthropic work. That is our mental capital. Over here, we want financial capital. There is a space in between where you do what you’re talking about. It’s relationship capital. Ivan: It’s social capital, yeah. Hugh: We build that. It’s relationship. It’s trust. It’s being social. I don’t care if you’re an introvert or not, and it takes energy away from you. It’s still important for the leader and the board. Tell us about your board experience. Did you help them think about networking? Ivan: Let’s talk for a moment about, before you asked about the board, you were talking about- The gray hair, things are slipping my mind. Yeah, I have been on a number of boards. I am an emeritus member of the board of directors for the Leroy Haynes Children’s Center in the Los Angeles area. I was on their board for almost 20 years. I have been on the board of trustees for the University of La Verne. I am presently sitting on the board of directors for the Austin Boys and Girls Club. I started my own foundation, so obviously I am on the board of my own foundation. I have had a lot of work in the nonprofit world for a long time. The nonprofit world does a lot of really good work. Hugh: Yeah, I was talking about trust and having a conversation. It’s a process to go from what we got to offer to people writing a check. Ivan: Yeah. Thank you. When you have that, there are a number of things that one can- You talked about introvert and extrovert. That is the thing I wanted to touch on. A lot of people assume you have to be an extrovert to be good at networking. That’s not true. What’s really funny- This is absolutely a true story, and I wrote about this about eight years ago on my blog at IvanMisner.com. I have more than 1,000 posts, and I have been blogging there for more than 13 years. One day, I was talking to my wife. We weren’t quite empty nesters; our kids were in high school. They were at practice. It’s just my wife and me. It was great. This is what it was going to be like. I said something to her, “You know me, honey, I’m an extrovert.” She was like, “No, you’re not.” I said, “What do you mean I’m not? Of course I’m an extrovert. I run the world’s largest business networking organization. I can’t be an introvert.” I have been married 32 years. I don’t know if you’re married or not, but this is so husband/wife relationship. She’s like, “Okay, honey, that’s what you think. That’s fine. You can be an extrovert.” “No, it’s not what I think. I am a keynote speaker. You can’t be an introvert.” “Whatever you think.” “Why do you think I’m an introvert?” She had been reading this book and telling me the differences between them. Then she said something that hit me, “Extroverts love to go out to recharge their batteries. Introverts want to hide and get away from everybody.“ “Okay, that definitely sounds like me.” But I am not an introvert. So I walk into my office at home in California, and I got on the Internet and found a test to take. I was going to show her that I am not an introvert. So I take this test. True story. I take this test, and it comes back with “Congratulations, Ivan. You are an introvert who is a situational extrovert.” I looked further, and it said, “When you are talking about something that you are very knowledgeable about, when you are in your wheelhouse, when you are with close friends, you come across as an extrovert. Otherwise, you are an introvert. So go apologize to your wife.” It didn’t say that last part, but I did. I said, “Hey, I can’t believe this, but you’re right. I am an introvert.” Even before I discovered that, I told people introverts can be great at networking. The reason why they can be is that they’re much more likely to listen than to speak. A good networker is like a good host, an interviewer. Hugh, you’re asking me questions and letting me answer. That’s what a good networker is. A good networker asks questions and lets the person speak. Extroverts love talking. What is their favorite subject? Themselves. So people assume that an extrovert is a great networker. That’s not true. They are a great networker if they have learned to slow down and be an interviewer. Ask questions just like you are. Hugh: Take a note. Don’t use your personality type as an excuse. Ivan: That’s exactly right. Hugh: Sometimes, Myers-Briggs and many of those instruments, I am way over on E. When I am in a group where I am not the subject matter expert, I can flip over, and I am quiet. I am a situational introvert. That is a good term. It really is about our processing and our energy. I gain energy. I am a conductor. I finish a two-hour rehearsal, and I am raring to go. I have adrenaline. Other people have to go to bed after a social event. You’re so true. When an introvert speaks, they have thought it out, and then, boom, it comes out as a complete thought. Extroverts just blurt it out. It’s in process. Our assumption is we are going to have a conversation. The important thing that rose in your conversation to my attention was that we are talking to potential donors. The scenario you just described, we are networking. We want to listen to them. What are they interested in? We want to go up to the ATM, put in a card, and get some cash. Guess what? They don’t want to be an ATM. They want to find out what they’re interested in. That is a form of networking, isn’t it? Ivan: It is. And sometimes you find out it’s not a good fit, but you want to find people who it’s a good fit. Their values and vision on the impact that they want to make in their community is congruent, resonant with yours. Where you can find those levers that you can pull that are resonant with their goals in life, the things they want to make a difference in, then you have the right person. You have to find out. You have to learn about that individual before you can start trying to pull money out of them. Hugh: Yes. In the social benefit world of churches and nonprofits, we receive money because we provide value. Ivan: Yes. But isn’t that the same in business? Hugh: It’s all the same. People buy from us because we give them value. There is a trust level there. There is a monetary exchange. It’s an exchange of energy, trust. There is lots of ways to think of it. Having conversations, you’re so right. It’s 10% talking. When I studied coaching, they said, “Coaching is 90% listening. Most of the other 10% is listening.” I have had clients who solved great problems that they have given me credit for when I was a listener. Ivan: And asking questions as a coach. Hugh: Yes. Absolutely. Listening actively. We might already be nervous when approaching a donor or in front of a group or a new network of people. What is your advice to nonprofit leaders? We do have a mix of people on here. Some people have a nonprofit and a business. Some people have a church or synagogue and a business. Some people have only one or the other. What is your advice for people as they are approaching, let’s say, a new group opportunity to network with other professionals? We have some anxiety or apprehension or concern about that. What is your advice to get the right mindset as we go into an opportunity to meet new people? Ivan: The right mindset is about building relationships with people. It’s not as you said about transaction. It’s about the relationship. In one of my books, I wrote something you might find interesting. In a book I wrote called Truth of Delusion, where I ask questions, I say, “Is this statement true, or is it false? Is it a delusion?” One of the statements we made in the book, “You can network anywhere, any time, any place, even at a funeral.” Is that truth or delusion? Of course, the overwhelming majority say, “No, you cannot network at a funeral.” Here is our answer. The answer is it’s a truth. But here is the key. This is important. If you hear that answer, you have to hear this first sentence after that answer. You must always honor the event. You don’t go to a funeral passing out your business card. That’s completely inappropriate. But if networking, as I believe it…
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