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    TV & Film

    The How NOT To Make A Movie Podcast

    Now in our FIFTH SEASON! Join us for a deep, inside baseball, nuts-n-bolts dive into the creative process. Guests include actors like MALCOLM MCDOWELL and BRANDON ROUTH, writers LARRY WILSON (BEETLEJUICE) and CY VORIS & ETHAN REIFF (DEMON KNIGHT) and everyone I know who’s ever collaborated to create content. We talk a lot about TALES FROM THE CRYPT and why, in so many ways, that epitomized the creative process at its best… and why Bordello Of Blood (the second Crypt-branded feature film, Demon Knight was the first) was its antithesis. Talk about how NEVER to make a movie!


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    Copyright: © 2022 The How NOT To Make A Movie Podcast

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    Latest Episodes:
    S2E1: THE Crypt Keeper Interview Sep 21, 2022
    Show notes Meet The Crypt Keeper’s keepers (clockwise from upper left) – Gil Adler, Alan Katz, John Kassir, Kevin Yagher.

    First of all, it’s good to be back for a second season! Better still to be back with company. As we kick off Season Two of “The How NOT To Make A Movie Podcast”, we really do become a “we”. Former creative partners Alan Katz and Gil Adler are now current creative partners! One of the bonus content features coming to this site very soon will be inside dope on the various creative projects we’re working on together. But that’s content for another day. Today’s content is special all by itself. Today we bring you “THE Crypt Keeper Interview”. The Crypt Keeper interview that’s never been had before. Hands down, the best Crypt Keeper interview ever!

    Not Just Any Crypt Keeper Interview

    In today’s episode, the four people responsible for creating and producing one of the world’s most iconic characters discus how that happened. The cool part? We’ve never had this conversation together. Ever.

    But, it’s about time we did.

    First, Meet Alan & Gil

    In Season One of “The How NOT To Make A Movie Podcast”, Alan and Gil told their stories of how they got involved in doing “Tales From The Crypt”. The stops along the way included “The Hitchhiker“, “Freddy’s Nightmares: The Nightmare On Elm Street TV Series“, “Vietnam War Story” and “Children Of The Corn II“. As Alan and Gil describe, Life doesn’t really begin until you’ve got your own Joel Silver stories.

    Fans of Joel Silver stories from season one rejoice! There’s never an end to Joel Silver stories!

    Meet Kevin Yagher

    It would surprise most people to learn how exactly The Crypt Keeper came to be. First, there was KEVIN YAGHER’s inspired puppet. By the time Kevin and Crypt stumbled on each other, Kevin’s career had already intersected with Gil’s a few times. Both worked on “The Hitchhiker” and “Freddy’s Nightmares: The Nightmare On Elm Street TV Series”. Kevin insists that, for him, getting Crypt was an accident of fate – and the physical location of his monster shop. Kevin then tells the story of how he auditioned all the actors who read for The Crypt Keeper. A couple of famous actors were sure they’d nailed the part. Kevin disagreed. And then John Kassir walked in the door…

    Meet John Kassir

    The instant Kevin heard JOHN KASSIR‘s voice, he recognized it as the Crypt Keeper’s. Want to experience a treat? Listen to John Kassir talk about how he created the Crypt Keeper’s unmistakable voice and the CK’s now world famous laugh. You’ll never watch “The Wizard Of Oz” the same way ever again.

    As with all the stories we tell on this podcast, no one in show biz is safe. Why, in this episode, we’ll even drag in James Remar, Steven Spielberg and the entire Child’s Play franchise!

    Having this conversation was a blast. We all learned new things. And we hope you have as much fun listening to it!

    PHOTO GALLERY

    Early looks for the Crypt Keeper

    Kevin and the Crypt Keeper compare orthodontia.

    Photo Credit – https://puppatoons.wordpress.com/2009/10/18/the-crypt-keeper/


    Season 2 Promo: The How NOT To Make A Movie Podcast Sep 19, 2022
    Show notes

    Are you looking for your next great podcast fix! Maybe you’re a little fried on true crime stories or you need a break from politics for two seconds. Sound familiar? Then have I got the podcast for you! In season one of “The How NOT To Make A Movie Podcast”, we told the story of “The Making Of Bordello Of Blood” – a horror movie nobody wanted to make. Actually, making Bordello was scarier than anything in Bordello!

    If you haven’t heard season one yet, we highly recommend it.

    Now, in season two, we expand the franchise. “Horror stories from across the movie-making trenches”. More painful personal stories of movie-making craft turning into crap.

    S2E1 – THE Crypt Keeper Interview

    We’re super excited about Season Two’s premier episode! We have a conversation that’s never been had before between the four people responsible for creating Tales From The Crypt’s iconic Crypt Keeper.

    It’s true! The four people responsible for creating the Crypt Keeper have never spoken together before about creating the Crypt Keeper. We’ve never discussed the fact that none of us own a bit of him. Not Kevin Yagher who built the puppet. Or John Kassir who voices him. Not the podcast’s co-host Gil Adler who produced and directed the Crypt Keeper segments. And not me – the guy who put all those words and terrible puns into the CK’s animatronic mouth.

    HBO’s “Tales From The Crypt” was unique in its time. The ad slogan “It’s not TV, it’s HBO” came about during the show’s very first cast and crew screening. Someone in the audience said it. To this day, “Crypt” remains incredibly popular. Everyone keeps trying to revive it (M. Night Shyamalan tried most recently). As important as the EC comics are to the franchise, when people think of “Tales From The Crypt”, they don’t think of the comics first, they think of The Crypt Keeper. He’s everything. And, for the first time ever, we’re going to talk about how that happened.

    If you love movies or if stories about movie-making are catnip to you, if you just love funny stories period, you are gonna love this podcast. Did I mention there’ll be plenty of inside dirt?

    “The How NOT To Make A Movie Podcast: Horror Stories From The Movie Making Trenches”. Check it out at “How-not-to-make-a-movie-dot-com (separated by dashes except for dot-com). Or find us wherever you go to find your favorite podcasts!


    The How NOT To Make A Movie Podcast: Promo #2 Jul 25, 2022
    Show notes How movie making craft turns to crap

    Hi, this is Alan Katz and have I got a podcast for you! It’s the absolutely true, jaw-dropping story about Hollywood sausage-making told from the sausage point of view. You’ll hear about big stars with even bigger egos and Hollywood producers behaving like psychopaths. Thrill to waves of wretched excess, buckets of bad attitude and great, steaming piles of truly terrible behavior.

    In this podcast, you’ll observe people doing things that normal people just don’t do.

    A Love For Movie Making Craft

    But, this also is a story about a very real love for movie-making told by movie makers. It’s about what happens when craftspeople find their craft suddenly turning into crap.

    Twenty-five years ago, the creative team behind HBO’s hit horror series “Tales From The Crypt” set out to make three “Crypt” branded feature films for Universal Pictures. The first film out the gate – “Demon Knight” – was highly successful! But something bizarre happened on the way to the Crypt team putting out a second successful feature film. We hit a wall – and the damned wall hit back!

    Did We Mention We Have Stars?

    “The How NOT To Make A Movie Podcast” is a brutally honest, personal expose about what happens when Hollywood movie making goes horribly off the rails. Before we’re done, everyone from Sly Stallone to Joel Silver to Corey Feldman to Tom Hanks, to Dennis Miller to Billy Friedkin to Bob Zemeckis will play a part. And that’s just for starters!

    You’ll laugh, you’ll cry, you’ll plotz! The last one I guarantee. It’s a Yiddish word that means “enjoy”. If you like podcasts about famous people and movies and everyone acting crazy – you’re gonna love “The How NOT To Make A Movie Podcast: The Making Of Bordello Of Blood”. It’s how Hollywood sausage gets made! And it’s available wherever you find your favorite podcasts.

    So – sausage, anyone?

    Sausage photo credit 24719260 © Ccat82 | Dreamstime.com


    Episode 10: Can We Talk Sequel? Jul 21, 2022
    Show notes It must be a movie monster, it won’t die!

    With this episode, I’m going to bring Season 1 of “The How NOT To Make A Movie Podcast” to an end – but only because there’s a sequel coming – a Season Two of “The How NOT To Make A Movie Podcast”! It’ll be about the same thing but sorta different! Before I get too deep into sequels though, I need to finish with all the old business first. I’ve still got a few last Season 1 stories to tell.

    Music From The Crypt

    When we were running “Tales From The Crypt“, one of the elements that mattered a lot to Gil was music. Gil has mentioned that he starts his “directing process” by trying to imagine what the music would be. It sets an important tone in his head. Literally. Gil reached out to feature film composers. In part, that was because our mandate was “don’t look or sound like a TV show!” When we made Crypt, TV shows sounded one way and feature films sounded another.

    Gil brought in big name feature composers like Chris Boardman (“The Color Purple”), Jay Ferguson (“Terminator”), James Horner (“Titanic”) and Alan Silvestri (“Forrest Gump”). We got those feature composers to do our “dumb little TV show”. Actually, getting them often just involved picking up the phone. Everyone wanted to “do” Crypt.

    It had a “mystique”.

    Hiring Superman

    The first Crypt episode Gil directed was called “What’s Cookin“. It’s about a couple who own a failing cafe. When their landlord goes to evict them, the homeless guy who sweeps up for them steps in “to help”. When the couple show up the next day, expecting to be locked out, instead, they find the doors open and a pile of fresh steak in the fridge. Unsure what this means, the wife throws a steak onto the grill and the smell brings more customers in the door than they’ve ever had. Success! She throws more steaks onto the grill. The problem – the steaks all came from the landlord who’s hanging in the meat locker in back!

    Having executive producers like Joel Silver, Bob Zemeckis, Walter Hill and Dick Donner gave us huge advantages when it came to casting. Dick Donner – director of “The Omen“, “The Goonies“, “Assassins” and the “Lethal Weapon” movies among others – asked Gil who he was thinking about for the lead. Gil mentioned Christopher Reeve – who Dick had worked with on “Superman” (1978). At that moment, getting Christopher Reeve to do any TV show was impossible.

    But, we got him to do our episode of Crypt. We got Bess Armstrong to play the wife and Judd Nelson to play the homeless guy (who kills the landlord and cuts him into steaks). The best casting was the actor Victoria Burrows wanted for the landlord – the source of those steaks: Meatloaf (the musician and actor – not the actual meat)! I mean, how hilarious is that?

    Even if Meatloaf had sucked in the part, we had to cast him!

    How To Break Bad News To People

    Anyway – among the stories you’ll hear in this episode – working with Christopher Reeve. We’ll tell two stories about another episode Gil and I wrote and that Gil directed – “Death Of Some Salesmen“. The first will be our music story – the one where Gil got Oscar-nominated composer Michael Kamen.

    Among Michael’s credits: “Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves”, “Brazil”, “Die Hard”, “Last Action Hero”, “The Iron Giant” and the “Lethal Weapon” movies. Getting Michael was a coup. We were thrilled about it. And then we went to listen to the first pass at the score he’d written for us.

    And that’s when things got uncomfortable.

    There’s also a near-disaster story – Todd Masters tells a harrowing tale about makeup special effects, a schedule gone awry and actor Tim Curry who was playing three roles! Finally, Gil will tell us what it takes to get a big feature film green lit. Gil’s done it in the room. It’s a great story.

    Finally, there’s “our” story. The one we’re telling right here in this blog and podcast. As I said up top, though this episode marks the end of Season 1, it isn’t the end. We’re doing a sequel!

    Season Two!!!

    In Season Two, we’ll swap our “The Making Of Bordello Of Blood” subtitle for “Horror Stories From The Movie Making Trenches”. So, they’ll be the same tales of “film craft turning to crap” from the first season where we described making Bordello. We’ll just get to tell them about other movies.

    By “we” I mean my old creative partner Gil Adler and I. We’re putting the band back together!

    Together Gil and I will tell even more stories from our past (we’ve but scratched the surface!) and invite in guests with “Bordello-like” stories of their own where film making craft turned into crap. Between Gil and I, we know an awful lot of interesting (big name) film and TV people with an awful lot of amazing stories about film making fiascos.

    No one climbs the show biz mountain without getting bruised. We’re going to tell you the stories of those bruises – from the inside.

    So, please – joint us for Season Two. Make us a habit. Better yet, tell your friends. Tell your enemies even (they’ll become your friends). Tell everyone you know. Share the good times!

    We’re already looking forward to it!


    Episode 9: Joel Directs! Jul 19, 2022
    Show notes

    As you’ve probably gained from listening to this podcast, working for Joel Silver was an adventure. So, if you like stories about Joel, you’re gonna love this episode.

    The Joel Silver Fan Club

    In this one, we tell the story of the time our boss, Joel Silver, directed an episode of HBO’s “Tales From The Crypt“. The episode, “Split Personality” stars Joe Pesci and Joey Pantoliano. It’s not half bad! But making it with Joel in the director’s chair – that’s a story!

    It’s not surprising that stories about Joel seize the imagination. As we discuss in the podcast, show business has always attracted larger than life people. If you either don’t have an ego to match or the personality to live with such egos, show biz ain’t for you. Everything that makes a Joel Silver (or working for him) entertaining, also makes him hard to work with. And for.

    But, even in an industry filled with Tasmanian Devil-like personalities, Joel’s stands out. It can be soul-destroying working for people like Joel. It can be exhilarating too. The strange thing is – for all the bizarre, unbelievable stories we tell here about Joel? Most of us would work with him again.

    It ain’t the money. It’s the creative buttons Joel pushes. Underneath the chaos, there’s an artist. I don’t know how else to explain it…

    Now, as this podcast has described, working with first-time directors wasn’t new to us. We prided ourselves on working as seamlessly with the first timers our executive producers sometimes asked us to “school” as we did with veterans like Billy Friedkin and John Frankenheimer. But, none of the first time directors we worked with posed quite the challenges that working with our boss Joel Silver did – especially to Gil Adler.

    More Great Crypt Stories!

    Once we start talking about directors, it’s hard to shut up.

    We talk actors, too. Among the many names that’ll pop up: Joe Pesci, Buck Henry, Gary Fleder, Russell Mulcahy, George Burns and Jan de Bont.

    We’ll also tell a story about iconic actor Joey Pantoliano and how Joey gave me a literal haircut on the set of an episode of “The Outer Limits” that we did together. I have photos to prove it really happened, too!

    Actor Joey Pantoliano gives me a style on the set of “The Outer Limits”

    Episode 8: The Martini Jul 19, 2022
    Show notes The “martini” usually means it’s quittin’ time!

    The classic Martini is simple. Elegant. Ice cold gin or vodka with a whisper of vermouth. It’s the perfect end of the day cocktail. This episode will feature another kind of cocktail – a lively conversation wherein the Dads From The Crypt will interview Tales From The Crypt.

    Dads From The Crypt

    First, let me introduce the Dads From The Crypt – my partners in crime on this podcast. The Dads are a lovely group of Tales From The Crypt fans (who also happen to be dads). They do a really delightful podcast (called “Dads From The Crypt” where 1) they review all 93 episodes of Crypt one at a time, and 2) give parenting advice.

    When DFTC’s Jason Stein first told me that? I knew I had to work with the group.

    First, Jason interviewed me for an episode of his podcast. Then, he asked if I was up for another interview – this one about “Bordello of Blood”.

    “Jason,” I said, “The story of Bordello’s making is more than just one podcast. It’s…” and I stopped as the inspiration dawned on me – “…a podcast unto itself“.

    And here we are.

    A Change Of Plans!

    In movie-making lingo, the “martini” is the last shot of the day. Originally, this was going to be the final episode of the podcast but, things changed. More episodes happened. A season two is coming! Well get to that.

    In the meantime – I’ll savor this martini as I slip into a chair for my Dads From The Crypt interview. Then we’ll serve up a whole pitcher of martinis as the rest of the “Tales From The Crypt” crew (Gil Adler, Victoria Burrows, Ed Tapia, Todd Masters, Greg Melton, Randall Thropp and Todd Masters) sit down for interviews, too.

    A guy named Cody Whitehouse coined the movie making term “martini” in 1989. The idea: “the next shot will be out of a glass”. That won’t be the case here, with this episode, the next “shot” will come from the Dads From The Crypt.


    Episode 7: Tales About “Tales” Jul 19, 2022
    Show notes The official “Bordello Of Blood” cast & crew photo

    Get a bunch of people together who worked on a project and they’ll have stories. That’s what this one is – backstage stories from “Tales From The Crypt”. How to describe the experience of making “Tales From The Crypt“… It was unique, for starters!

    Back in the 1990’s when we made Crypt, the feature world was the feature world and the TV world was the TV world. The two didn’t intersect the way they do now. Occasionally, a TV star like John Travolta or Robin Williams would break through and cross over. Once they made it to features, they never looked back at TV.

    And a feature actor who did a TV series? The obvious question was when’s the retirement party?

    That isn’t how the entertainment world is now. These days, TV is the creative skunk works.

    We knew while we were making “Crypt” that it was a special experience. But, it wasn’t until we’d all had careers and lives after Crypt that we could fully appreciate just how special doing “Crypt” was. For starters, anthologies aren’t like other TV shows. Each episode is a thing unto itself. Whereas a regular series has standing sets and regular characters, an anthology episode has to invent a whole world every time out. It’s a staggering but amazing challenge. It produces a whole other set of backstage stories.

    Great anthologies are transcendent. “The Twilight Zone” is the gold standard. If anything, that’s what we aspired to. But, as important as the stories are, it’s the host who ties it all together. With Crypt, the Crypt Keeper was everything. For better or worse, during the six years I worked on Crypt, I wrote every word the Crypt Keeper ever said. Boy, could I tell some backstage stories about that guy!

    In all honesty, not every episode of “Tales From The Crypt” is a gem. Some are a little hard to watch, But some episodes? They still make us incredibly proud that we made them.

    In this episode, we put the band back together to talk about Crypt – and spin a few tales about the making of “Tales”. And we’ll put you right in the room with us!


    Episode 6: “The Cutting Room Floor” Jul 19, 2022
    Show notes

    The Cutting Room Floor is legendary in Hollywood. Whole careers have happened there. In fact, there’s a whole weird history in Hollywood of scenes and actors who famously never made “the cut”. Kevin Costner, for instance, was entirely cut out of “The Big Chill“. He plays Alex – the guy who’s funeral all the other characters are attending. In that vein, this episode is about scenes rescued from the cutting room floor

    Video and DVD’s changed everything. One could rent or buy the studio’s cut or “The Director’s Cut”. Finally, the director could put out the extended movie they envisioned with all the scenes the studio cut out. Often that was great. Sometimes though you saw the studio’s wisdom.

    Film v Video

    Back then, we shot on film, cut on digital then transferred back to film for the release. Digital editing began in 1985 when Quantel produced its limited “Harry” compositor. Things got rolling two years later (1987) when Avid released its Avid/1 Media Composer. Cutting on video was revolutionary of course. You could see dissolves and freeze frames in real time. Before, you’d see dissolves laid out in yellow grease paint drawn across the literal film.

    Filming the movie gets all the attention. But, it won’t be until we deliver all the filmed footage to the editing suite – and the editor performs their magic – that it will become “a movie”. Or a TV show.

    And it can blow your mind what exactly can happen in an editing suite. There’s a story in this episode about executive producer Bob Zemeckis cobbling together a scene we never shot. He took scraps from the cutting room floor to imply a lesbian sexual encounter between Angie’s character and Erika’s. One pickup shot was all it took to marry it all together in the audience’s head.

    That simple cross (filmed using two extras instead of the actors) ties it together perfectly. It really is like seeing how magic tricks work. And at the hands of a magician – our boss Bob Zemeckis.

    Ain’t Podcasting Grand!

    To be absolutely honest, I hadn’t planned to include an episode like this when I laid out the podcast initially. I knew as I interviewed Gil Adler and Ed Tapia and Greg Melton and Victoria Burrows and Todd Masters and Colleen Nystedt (and Randall Thropp – Randall is a podcast unto himself he’s got so many stories!) that they were giving me way more incredible content than I could possibly use. I figured I’d be the only one who ever knew such gold even existed.

    But, hey, podcasts, ya know?

    In a sense, this episode really is a monster made up of spare parts – rescued from the cutting room floor But, don’t be afraid! It won’t hurt you. Much…


    Episode 5: “Endings Are Never Pretty” Jul 18, 2022
    Show notes

    As the production of “Bordello Of Blood” stumbled toward its climax, we knew we’d leave Vancouver with an unfinished movie in hand. That was ironic because our unfinished movie had finished one relationship (between Sly Stallone and Angie Everhart) and was on its way to finishing another – the decade-long creative one between Alan Katz and Gil Adler. Endings are never pretty.

    In this episode, things don’t so much go from bad to worse as settle into a soul-sucking certainty that the project is doomed.

    On the bright side (if there was one), at least we weren’t keeping a secret from Angie any more. We had all grown fond of Angie and sympathetic to her after Sly Stallone unceremoniously dumped her in the middle of a working day. Talk about unhappy endings!

    Can This Please, Please Be Over?

    Tensions between cast members was high. Corey Feldman felt disrespected by Dennis Miller. So did Erika Eleniak and all of the day players – all Canadian. There was even more tension between Dennis and our Canadian crew. The crew had soured on Dennis almost as soon as he’d arrived in Vancouver. First, because he was rude. Second, because he was rude to them for being Canadian. That was weird because Dennis was married to a Canadian from Vancouver! What really annoyed the crew though was having to switch their weekends in order to accommodate Dennis and his HBO TV show’s shooting schedule.

    There’s actual fisticuffs between the cast. The crew begins to desert us in droves. And, so we realize too late to do anything about it, there’s not nearly enough night time to make our shooting days. Night time in at the height of summer this far north lasts about four hours.

    You’d think a bunch of savvy filmmakers would have considered that. Oh, how wrong you’d be.

    Ultimately, Bordello would leave Vancouver uncompleted. And the Crypt creative team was more broken than we realized. Indeed – endings are never pretty.

    But, boy, can they make for a great story! And, this being a Hollywood story, there are even a few twists and turns along the way – and an actual “Hollywood ending”.


    Episode 4: “Special Effects” Jul 18, 2022
    Show notes

    In a horror movie, makeup special effects are everything. Get them wrong and your audience will hate you. It’s just how the horror business is: no guts, no glory.

    If Freddy Krueger had looked like 1953’s “Robot Monster” (with a gorilla body and a deep sea diver helmet head – with antennas), the whole “Nightmare On Elm Street” series would have flopped. Freddy’s backstory is interesting and the “dream logic rules” are truly terrifying, but if Freddy looks dopey rather than terrifying? Nothing else will matter. The audience will hate him (in the wrong way) and hate the movie in every other way.

    Nothing is more important to a horror movie than its makeup special effects.

    When Special Makeup Effects Aren’t “Special” Enough

    We live and die (ironically) by the quality, the craftsmanship, the authenticity and the sheer OMG-ness of how well we create the illusion of gore. Some of my fondest memories from “Tales From The Crypt” involve me, “Tales'” make up guru Todd Masters and a stack of pathology textbooks. Oh, how we would cackle, the two of us, as we leafed through those pathology textbooks, looking for examples of extreme physical mayhem to put on screen. Unfortunately, agreeing to pay Dennis Miller a million bucks (half a million more than was in our budget for the lead) forced us to leave Todd back in Los Angeles.

    In place of Todd, we took a leap of faith and entrusted our horror movie’s makeup special effects – our bread and butter – to an untried local team up in Vancouver.

    That’s where this episode begins: we’ve realized that our local makeup special effects team – talented and willing as they are – needs help.

    We call in Todd Masters. But there’s only so much he can do with a bus that’s already careening toward a cliff. Meanwhile, Dennis wants to be anywhere but the set. Erika doesn’t want to play the role she’s playing. And Sly finally cuts it off with Angie – leaving her an emotional wreck.

    And then Joel comes for another visit!

    We had turned into one of those horror movies. the kind where there’s way more horror in making the movie than ever makes it onto the screen.


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