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    Education

    The Gray Area with Sean Illing

    The Gray Area with Sean Illing takes a philosophy-minded look at culture, technology, politics, and the world of ideas. Each week, we invite a guest to explore a question or topic that matters. From the the state of democracy, to the struggle with depression and anxiety, to the nature of identity in the digital age, each episode looks for nuance and honesty in the most important conversations of our time. New episodes drop every Monday. From the Vox Media Podcast Network.

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    Copyright: © 2019 Vox Media, Inc. All Rights Reserved

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    Latest Episodes:
    Neil deGrasse Tyson gets political Oct 13, 2022
    Show notes

    On this first episode of The Gray Area, Sean Illing talks with astrophysicist Neil deGrasse Tyson, who takes on many of our most vexing societal problems in his new book Starry Messenger. According to Neil, if we all were to adopt a more scientific approach to politics, many of our social problems would be easier to identify, talk about, and solve. In this conversation, Sean challenges that claim, and they discuss what the limits of both politics and science might be, as tools to use in crafting an improved society.

    Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray Area

    Guest: Neil deGrasse Tyson (@neiltyson), astrophysicist; author

    References:

    • Starry Messenger: Cosmic Perspectives on Civilizationby Neil deGrasse Tyson (Henry Holt; 2022)
    • "Neil deGrasse Tyson lets the science deniers have it: 'The beginning of the end of an informed democracy'" by Sean Illing (Salon; Oct. 20, 2015)

    Enjoyed this episode? Rate The Gray Area ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

    Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of The Gray Area. Subscribe in your favorite podcast app.

    Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

    This episode was made by:

    • Producer: Erikk Geannikis
    • Editor: Amy Drozdowska
    • Engineer: Patrick Boyd
    • Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: A.M. Hall

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices


    Introducing The Gray Area Oct 11, 2022
    Show notes

    Resist certainty, embrace ambiguity. The Gray Area is a philosophical take on culture, politics, and everything in between with host Sean Illing. We don’t pretend to have the answers, but we do offer a space for real dialogue. Get some cool takes on a very hot world. New episodes drop every Monday and Thursday.

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices


    Best of: Why America's obsession with rights is wrong Oct 06, 2022
    Show notes

    In this episode originally recorded in July 2021, Vox's Zack Beauchamp talks with Columbia law professor Jamal Greene about his book How Rights Went Wrong: Why Our Obsession With Rights Is Tearing America Apart. They discuss how the US obsession with rights and their protections gives too much power to judges and the courts, makes it difficult for ordinary citizens to find reasonable solutions to legitimate problems, and has made this country's legal system not only nonsensical but dangerous.

    Vox Conversations will return on Thursday, Oct. 13th — but under a new name, and with a new look. Stay tuned for The Gray Area with Sean Illing: a philosophical take on culture, politics, and everything in between.

    Host: Zack Beauchamp (@zackbeauchamp), Senior Correspondent, Vox

    Guest: Jamal Greene (@jamalgreene), Dwight Professor of Law, Columbia Law School

    References:

    • How Rights Went Wrong: Why Our Obsession With Rights Is Tearing America Apart by Jamal Greene (HMH Books; 2021)
    • "From Guns to Gay Marriage, How Did Rights Take Over Politics?" by Kelefa Sanneh (New Yorker; May 24, 2021)
    • Lochner v. New York, 198 US 45 (1905)
    • Masterpiece Cakeshop, Ltd. v. Colorado Civil Rights Commission, 584 US __ (2018)
    • District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 US 570 (2008)
    • "Texas's radical anti-abortion law, explained" by Ian Millhiser (Vox; Sept. 2, 2021)


    Enjoyed this episode? Rate Vox Conversations ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

    Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of Vox Conversations by subscribing in your favorite podcast app.

    Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

    This episode was made by:

    • Producer: Erikk Geannikis
    • Editor: Amy Drozdowska
    • Engineer: Patrick Boyd
    • Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: A.M. Hall

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices


    A GOP insider on why the party went Trump Oct 03, 2022
    Show notes

    Sean Illing talks with former Republican strategist Tim Miller about his new book Why We Did It, which offers an inside look at Donald Trump's total capture of the Republican Party. Now a staff writer at The Bulwark, Miller shares detailed conversations he had with other party operators — who he criticizes as power- and fame-hungry enablers. He pulls back the curtain on a DC culture of identity and status, talks about the media's role in this transformation, and opens up honestly about the ways in which he and others like him are culpable.

    Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews Writer, Vox

    Guest: Tim Miller (@Timodc), author; writer, The Bulwark

    References:

    • Why We Did It: A Travelogue from the Republican Road to Hellby Tim Miller (Harper; 2022)
    • "Unlocking the Conservative Closet" by Kerry Eleveld (The Advocate; Oct. 12, 2010)
    • Losers: The Road to Everyplace but the White House by Michael Lewis (Vintage; 1998)
    • "Elise Stefanik said she was one of the 'most bipartisan' members of Congress. Then she went all-in on Trump's false election claims" by Michael Kranish (Washington Post; May 12, 2021)
    • "The Republican Triangle of Doom" by Sarah Longwell (The Bulwark; Sept. 27, 2021)
    • "Breakfast with J.D. Vance, Anti-Trump Author Turned Pro-Trump Candidate" by Molly Ball (Time; July 7, 2021)
    • "Social decay: what the conversation about Trump and the white working class misses" by Sean Illing (Vox; Nov. 1, 2016)


    Enjoyed this episode? Rate Vox Conversations ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

    Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of Vox Conversations by subscribing in your favorite podcast app.

    Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

    This episode was made by:

    • Producer: Erikk Geannikis
    • Editor: Amy Drozdowska
    • Engineer: Patrick Boyd
    • Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: A.M. Hall

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices


    How do we fix the harm we cause? Sep 29, 2022
    Show notes

    Vox’s Marin Cogan talks with Rabbi Danya Ruttenberg about her new book On Repentance And Repair, which is about how to make amends in the modern world. They talk about the difference between repentance and forgiveness, why making amends is so important, and how a "five step plan" for repairing harm drawn from the Jewish tradition can serve as a guide even for navigating repair in modern, complex issues. And, merely apologizing . . . is not enough.

    Host: Marin Cogan (@marincogan), Senior Features Correspondent, Vox

    Guest: Rabbi Danya Ruttenberg (@TheRaDR), rabbi; author; scholar-in-residence, National Council of Jewish Women

    References:

    • On Repentance And Repair: Making Amends in an Unapologetic World by Danya Ruttenberg(Beacon Press; 2022)
    • The Cost of Discipleship by Dietrich Bonhoeffer (1937)
    • New Testament; Matthew 18:15–35
    • "Most harassment apologies are just damage control. Dan Harmon's was a self-reckoning" by Caroline Framke (Vox; Jan. 12, 2018)
    • The Mishneh Torah of Maimonides (c. 1170–1180 CE); the laws of teshuvah
    • Sacred Spaces


    Enjoyed this episode? Rate Vox Conversations ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

    Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of Vox Conversations by subscribing in your favorite podcast app.

    Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

    This episode was made by:

    • Producer: Erikk Geannikis
    • Editor: Amy Drozdowska
    • Engineer: Patrick Boyd
    • Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: A.M. Hall

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices


    A new philosophy of love Sep 26, 2022
    Show notes

    Sean Illing talks with Carrie Jenkins about her new book Sad Love, and her call to rethink the shape and boundaries of romantic love. In this far-ranging discussion about the meaning of romantic love, Sean and Carrie discuss the connection between love and happiness, what we should expect (and not expect) from our romantic partners, and whether or not loving a person must entail that we love only that person.

    Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews Writer, Vox

    Guest: Carrie Jenkins (@carriejenkins), writer; professor of philosophy, University of British Columbia

    References:

    • Sad Love: Romance and the Search for Meaning by Carrie Jenkins (Polity; 2022)
    • "A philosopher makes the case for polyamory" by Sean Illing (Vox; Feb. 16, 2018)
    • What Love Is: And What It Could Be by Carrie Jenkins (Basic; 2017)
    • Nausea by Jean-Paul Sartre (1949)
    • Nicomachean Ethics by Aristotle (see Book I, or Book X.6-8 for robust discussion of eudaimonia)
    • Marina Adshade, economist
    • Man's Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl (1946; tr. Ilse Lasch)


    Enjoyed this episode? Rate Vox Conversations ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

    Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of Vox Conversations by subscribing in your favorite podcast app.

    Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

    This episode was made by:

    • Producer: Erikk Geannikis
    • Editor: Amy Drozdowska
    • Engineer: Patrick Boyd
    • Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: A.M. Hall

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices


    The politics of 'Yellowstone' Sep 23, 2022
    Show notes

    Into It is a new podcast from Vulture and New York Magazine hosted by Sam Sanders. Each week, Sam and his Vulture colleagues break down the pop culture they can't stop thinking about and help us all obsess . . . better.

    In this segment, Sam talks to New York Times columnist Tressie McMillan Cottom about the popular TV show Yellowstone and how it reflects our own identity politics.

    New episodes of Into It drop every Thursday.

    Listen on Apple Podcasts: apple.co/intoit

    Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6YRlgok1wcnIqhrQgH1Tjt?si=46df5a54f7934e17

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices


    How society sexualizes us Sep 22, 2022
    Show notes

    Vox’s Emily St. James talks with the celebrated author and trans activist Julia Serano about her new book, Sexed Up. They talk about what "sexualization" really means, and why sexualizing behaviors are so pervasive and widespread throughout society. They also discuss why we're so prone to classify and categorize people, how patterns of what Julia calls "enforced ignorance" are communicated to children, and how we might build a society with a healthier sexual ethic — one that better protects marginalized people.

    Host: Emily St. James (@emilyvdw), Senior Correspondent, Vox

    Guest: Julia Serano (@JuliaSerano), writer, musician, activist

    References:

    • Sexed Up: How Society Sexualizes Us, and How We Can Fight Back by Julia Serano (Seal Press; 2022)


    Enjoyed this episode? Rate Vox Conversations ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

    Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of Vox Conversations by subscribing in your favorite podcast app.

    Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

    This episode was made by:

    • Producer: Erikk Geannikis
    • Editor: Amy Drozdowska
    • Engineer: Patrick Boyd
    • Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: A.M. Hall

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices


    The Parent Trap Sep 19, 2022
    Show notes

    Sean Illing talks with Nate Hilger, economist, data scientist, and author of the new book The Parent Trap: How to Stop Overloading Parents and Fix Our Inequality Crisis. The book explores what is expected of parents, and how a larger public investment in families and children beyond K-12 education could address inequality in America. Sean and Nate discuss parenting, the difference between caring and skill building, the pressure on parents to do it all, and the economic consequences that arise when they can’t.

    Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews Writer, Vox

    Guest: Nate Hilger (@nate_g_hilger), economist and author

    References:

    • The Parent Trap: How To Stop Overloading Parents and Fix Our Inequality Crisis by Nate Hilger (MIT Press; 2022)


    Enjoyed this episode? Rate Vox Conversations ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

    Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of Vox Conversations by subscribing in your favorite podcast app.

    Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

    This episode was made by:

    • Producer: Erikk Geannikis
    • Editor: Amy Drozdowska
    • Engineer: Patrick Boyd
    • Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: A.M. Hall

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices


    40 Acres: Reaching reconciliation Sep 15, 2022
    Show notes

    What good are piecemeal reparations? From Georgetown University, where school leadership once sold enslaved people, to Evanston, Illinois, where redlining kept Black residents out of homeownership, institutions and local governments are attempting to take reparations into their own hands. But do these small-scale efforts detract from the broader call for reparations from the federal government?


    Fabiola talks with Indigenous philanthropist Edgar Villanueva, founder of the Decolonizing Wealth Project and creator of the Case for Reparations fund, about the reparatory justice efforts underway across the country and the role that individual donors might be able to play in reparations. Fabiola also speaks with activist Kavon Ward, who worked to restore Bruce’s Beach, waterfront land in California, to the descendants of Black families who were pushed off the land by eminent domain. (Ward’s work was funded by Villanueva’s organization.) They discuss how jurisdictions are repaying Black people for what was taken from them — and if that repayment can be considered reparations at all.


    This series was made possible with support from the Canopy Collective and the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation. To provide feedback, please take our survey here: https://forms.gle/w9vYsfFGvdJLJ3LY9

    Host: Fabiola Cineas, race and policy reporter, Vox

    Guest: Kavon Ward, founder, Where Is My Land; Edgar Villanueva, founder, Decolonizing Wealth Project

    References:

    Decolonizing Wealth, Second Edition: Indigenous Wisdom to Heal Divides and Restore Balance by Edgar Villanueva (Penguin Random House, 2021)

    How a California beachfront property now worth millions was taken from its Black owners (CBS, May 2021)

    Governor Newsom Signs SB 796, Authorizing the Return of Bruce’s Beach (California state Sen. Steven Bradford, September 2021)

    How Black activist Kavon Ward found her calling in the fight for Bruce’s Beach (Orange County Register)

    272 Slaves Were Sold to Save Georgetown. What Does It Owe Their Descendants? (The New York Times, April 2016)

    In Likely First, Chicago Suburb Of Evanston Approves Reparations For Black Residents (NPR, 2021)


    Enjoyed this episode? Rate Vox Conversations ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

    Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of Vox Conversations by subscribing in your favorite podcast app.

    Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

    This episode was made by:

    • Producer: Jonquilyn Hill
    • Engineer: Patrick Boyd
    • Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: A.M. Hall

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices


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