The Gray Area with Sean Illing

Latest Episodes:

40 Acres: The old Jim Crow Sep 12, 2022

Show notes

Why slavery? Marxist scholar Adolph Reed argues that Jim Crow — not enslavement — is the defining experience for Black Americans today. Reed recounts his childhood in the segregation-era South in his book The South: Jim Crow and Its Afterlives. Fabiola speaks with Reed about his experience, his argument that reparations aren’t necessarily a healing balm, and what policies and resources are needed to create a more equitable society.

This series was made possible with support from the Canopy Collective and the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation. To provide feedback, please take our survey here: https://forms.gle/w9vYsfFGvdJLJ3LY9

Host: Fabiola Cineas, race and policy reporter, Vox

Guest: Adolph L. Reed Jr., author of The South: Jim Crow and Its Afterlives

References:

The South: Jim Crow and Its Afterlives by Adolph L. Reed Jr. (Verso, 2022)

The Marxist Who Antagonizes Liberals and Left (New Yorker)

Black Americans’ views of reparations for slavery (Pew Research)

Library Visit, Then Held at Gunpoint (New York Times, 2015)

The Racial Wealth Gap Is About the Upper Classes (People’s Policy Project, 2020)

Income Inequality and the Persistence of Racial Economic Disparities (Robert Manduca, 2018)

Enjoyed this episode? Rate Vox Conversations ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of Vox Conversations by subscribing in your favorite podcast app.

Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

This episode was made by:

Producer: Jonquilyn Hill
Engineer: Patrick Boyd
Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: A.M. Hall

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

40 Acres: $14 trillion and no mules Sep 08, 2022

Show notes

Paying the price. One of the typical questions asked during conversations about reparations is how to pay for them. Fabiola talks with economist William “Sandy” Darity and folklorist Kirsten Mullen about how reparations could be executed. The husband-and-wife team lays out a comprehensive framework in their book, From Here to Equality: Reparations for Black Americans in the Twenty-First Century, for who would qualify and how the federal government would afford the $14 trillion price tag.

This is part of 40 Acres, a four-part series examining reparations in the United States.

This series was made possible by a grant from the Canopy Collective and the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation. To provide feedback, please take our survey here: https://forms.gle/w9vYsfFGvdJLJ3LY9

Host: Fabiola Cineas, race and policy reporter, Vox

Guests: William “Sandy” Darity and Kirsten Mullen, authors of From Here to Equality: Reparations for Black Americans in the Twenty-First Century

References:

From Here to Equality: Reparations for Black Americans in the Twenty-First Century by William A. Darity Jr. and A. Kirsten Mullen (The University of North Carolina Press; 2020)
Homestead Act (1862)
Disparities in Wealth by Race and Ethnicity in the 2019 Survey of Consumer Finances (Federal Reserve; 2020)
Evanston is the first U.S. city to issue slavery reparations. Experts say it's a noble start. (NBC News; 2021)
The Root of Haiti’s Misery: Reparations to Enslavers (New York Times; 2020)
‘We’re Self-Interested’: The Growing Identity Debate in Black America (New York Times; 2019)

Enjoyed this episode? Rate Vox Conversations ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of Vox Conversations by subscribing in your favorite podcast app.

Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

This episode was made by:

Producer: Jonquilyn Hill
Engineer: Patrick Boyd
Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: A.M. Hall

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

40 Acres: The original promise Sep 01, 2022

Show notes

Fabiola Cineas talks with Nkechi Taifa, the founder and director of the Reparation Education Project, about the history of the fight for reparations in America. Though they came to the forefront during the 2020 election in the wake of George Floyd’s murder, activists have been fighting for repayment for slavery since the practice was abolished. This is part of 40 Acres, a four-part series examining reparations in the United States.

This series was made possible by a grant from the Canopy Collective and the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation. To provide feedback, please take our survey here: https://forms.gle/w9vYsfFGvdJLJ3LY9

Host: Fabiola Cineas, race and policy reporter, Vox

Guest: Nkechi Taifa, founder and director of the Reparation Education Project

References:

Enjoyed this episode? Rate Vox Conversations ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of Vox Conversations by subscribing in your favorite podcast app.

Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

This episode was made by:

Producer: Jonquilyn Hill
Engineer: Patrick Boyd
Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: A.M. Hall

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What Clarence Thomas really thinks Aug 29, 2022

Show notes

Sean Illing talks with Corey Robin, author of a recent article — as well as a 2019 book — about the life and thought of Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas. Robin discusses how Thomas, whose concurring opinion in the case that overturned Roe v. Wade garnered recent attention, developed the ideological basis of his extremist judicial philosophy, how his views went from the hard-right fringe to more mainstream over the course of his thirty years on the Supreme Court, and how the failures of the 1960's movements shaped his fundamental pessimism about racial progress in America.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews Writer, Vox

Guest: Corey Robin (@CoreyRobin), author; professor of political science, Brooklyn College and CUNY Graduate Center

References:

The Enigma of Clarence Thomas by Corey Robin (Metropolitan; 2019)
"The Self-Fulfilling Prophecies of Clarence Thomas" by Corey Robin (New Yorker; July 9)
Clarence Thomas's opening statement, Anita Hill hearing (C-SPAN; Oct. 11, 1991)
Invisible Man by Ralph Ellison (1952)
Dobbs v. Jackson Women's Health Organization (2022); Thomas's concurrence
American Negro Slave Revolts by Herbert Aptheker (1943)
Reconstruction: America's Unfinished Revolution - 1863–1877 by Eric Foner (1988; updated 2014)
The Culture of Narcissism: American Life in An Age of Diminishing Expectations by Christopher Lasch (Norton; 1979)
The Rhetoric of Reactionby Albert O. Hirschman (Harvard; 1991)

Enjoyed this episode? Rate Vox Conversations ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of Vox Conversations by subscribing in your favorite podcast app.

Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

This episode was made by:

Producer: Erikk Geannikis
Editor: Amy Drozdowska
Engineer: Patrick Boyd
Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: A.M. Hall

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Even Better: Don't call it a budget Aug 25, 2022

Show notes

Every Thursday in August, you'll hear Even Better on Vox Conversations, a special series focused on helping people live better lives individually and collectively.

In the fourth and final episode, host Julia Furlan talks with financial planner Paco de Leon, author and illustrator of Finance for the People, an accessible, real-talk guide to taking control of your finances. They discuss why it can be emotional to talk about money, the difficult historical realities of financial planning usually avoided by most financial advice-givers, and some real, practical steps for how to face your financial fears and take control of your money — right now.

Host: Julia Furlan (@juliastmi)

Guest: Paco de Leon, author; illustrator; founder, The Hell Yeah Group

References:

Finance for the People: Getting a Grip on Your Finances(Penguin Life; 2022)

Even Better is here to offer deeply sourced, actionable advice for helping you live a better life. Follow Even Better at vox.com/even-better.

Enjoyed this episode? Rate Vox Conversations ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of Vox Conversations by subscribing in your favorite podcast app.

Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

This episode was made by:

Producer: Erikk Geannikis
Editor: Amy Drozdowska
Engineer: Patrick Boyd
Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: A.M. Hall

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The quest for authenticity Aug 22, 2022

Show notes

Sean Illing talks with Skye Cleary, philosopher and author of the new book How to Be Authentic. The book is an examination of how to live an authentic life through the lens of the life and thought of the great French philosopher Simone de Beauvoir (1908–1986). Sean and Skye discuss what authenticity really means — and how it's often a misused term today, why we should resist performing roles predetermined for us by society, and how to have a truly intimate relationship without surrendering yourself — or your freedom.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews Writer, Vox

Guest: Skye Cleary (@Skye_Cleary), author, philosopher

References:

How to Be Authentic: Simone de Beauvoir and the Quest for Fulfillmentby Skye Cleary (St. Martin's; 2022)
"Existentialism Is a Humanism" by Jean-Paul Sartre (1946)
The Second Sex by Simone de Beauvoir (1949; tr. 2011 by Constance Borde & Sheila Malovany-Chevallier)
Aristophanes's speech in Plato's Symposium, 189c–193e
The Useless Mouths, play by Simone de Beauvoir (1945)
Inseparableby Simone de Beauvoir (tr. Sandra Smith; published for the first time by Ecco; 2021)
"Before She Loved Sartre, Simone de Beauvoir loved Zaza" by Leslie Camhi (New York Times; Aug. 27, 2021)
After The Second Sex: Conversations with Simone de Beauvoir by Alice Schwarzer (Pantheon; 1984)
Memoirs of a Dutiful Daughterby Simone de Beauvoir (1958)
Pyrrhus et Cinéas by Simone de Beauvoir (1944)

Enjoyed this episode? Rate Vox Conversations ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of Vox Conversations by subscribing in your favorite podcast app.

Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

This episode was made by:

Producer: Erikk Geannikis
Editor: Amy Drozdowska
Engineer: Patrick Boyd
Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: A.M. Hall

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Even Better: Setting your boundaries Aug 18, 2022

Show notes

Every Thursday in August, you'll hear Even Better on Vox Conversations, a special series focused on helping people live better lives individually and collectively.

In the third episode, host Julia Furlan talks with Nedra Glover Tawwab, licensed therapist, relationship expert, and author of the NYT best-seller Set Boundaries, Find Peace. Nedra's focus is on the importance of setting boundaries in your relationships, and she talks about many strategies for doing this that are much more nuanced than simply saying "no" or cutting ties. Julia and Nedra talk about how to get over the fear of disappointing people, the ethics of "ghosting" someone, and how even small changes in our patterns of behavior can lead to better, more fulfilling relationships.

Host: Julia Furlan (@juliastmi)

Guest: Nedra Glover Tawwab (@NedraTawwab), therapist; author

References:

Set Boundaries, Find Peace: A Guide to Reclaiming Yourself by Nedra Glover Tawwab (TarcherPerigee; 2021)

Even Better is here to offer deeply sourced, actionable advice for helping you live a better life. Follow Even Better at vox.com/even-better.

Enjoyed this episode? Rate Vox Conversations ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of Vox Conversations by subscribing in your favorite podcast app.

Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

This episode was made by:

Producer: Erikk Geannikis
Editor: Amy Drozdowska
Engineer: Patrick Boyd
Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: A.M. Hall

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Your gut instinct is usually wrong Aug 15, 2022

Show notes

Sean Illing talks with former Google data scientist Seth Stephens-Davidowitz, author of Don't Trust Your Gut. Seth argues that the way we make decisions is wrong, outdated, and based on methods or conventional wisdom that lead us astray from getting what we want. Sean and Seth discuss the idea of using data in place of our own intuition and reason to help us through things like online dating, picking a place to live, and being a better parent. Plus, how can we trust "experience sampling" studies that rely on self-reporting, when — after all — everybody lies?

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews Writer, Vox

Guest: Seth Stephens-Davidowitz (@SethS_D), author

References:

Don't Trust Your Gut: Using Data to Get What You Really Want in Life by Seth Stephens-Davidowitz (Dey Street; 2022)
Everybody Lies: Big Data, New Data, and What the Internet Can Tell Us About Who We Really Are by Seth Stephens-Davidowitz (Dey Street; 2018)
Moneyball (dir. Bennett Miller, 2011); based on the book Moneyball: The Art of Winning an Unfair Gameby Michael Lewis (W.W. Norton; 2004)
"Capitalists in the Twenty-First Century" by Matthew Smith et al. (Quarterly Journal of Economics v. 134 (4); 2019)
The Mappiness Project, created by George MacKerron and Susanna Mourato
"Machine learning uncovers the most robust self-report predictors of relationship quality across 43 longitudinal couples studies" by Samantha Joel et al. (PNAS v. 117 (32); 2020)
"Are You Happy While You Work?" by Alex Bryson and George MacKerron (The Economic Journal v. 127 (599); Feb. 2017)
"Experienced well-being rises with income, even above $75,000 per year" by Matthew Killingsworth (PNAS v. 118 (4); 2021)
"The Amount and Source of Millionaires' Wealth (Moderately) Predicts Their Happiness" by Grand Edward Donnelly et al. (Personality and Social Psychology Bulletin v. 44 (5); May 2018)
“When Choice Is Demotivating: Can One Desire Too Much of a Good Thing?” by Sheena S. Iyengar and Mark R. Lepper (J. of Personality and Social Psychology, 79(6); 2000)
"The Effects of Exposure to Better Neighborhoods on Children: New EvidenceFfrom the Moving to Opportunity Project" by Raj Chetty et al. (American Economic Review v. 106 (4); 2016)
"Education Doesn't Work" by Freddie deBoer (Substack; Apr. 12, 2021)
"Predicting political elections from rapid and unreflective face judgments" by Charles C. Ballew and Alexander Todorov (PNAS v. 104 (46); 2007)
Dataclysm: Love, Sex, Race, and Identity — What Our Online Lives Tell Us About Our Offline Selves by Christian Rudder (Crown; 2015)

Enjoyed this episode? Rate Vox Conversations ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of Vox Conversations by subscribing in your favorite podcast app.

Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

This episode was made by:

Producer: Erikk Geannikis
Editor: Amy Drozdowska
Engineer: Patrick Boyd
Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Even Better: Workplace equality 2.0 Aug 11, 2022

Show notes

Every Thursday in August, you'll hear Even Better on Vox Conversations, a special series focused on helping people live better lives individually and collectively.

In the second episode, host Julia Furlan talks with author and CEO Minda Harts about how to fight for equality in the workplace. Harts’s work has focused on empowering people, particularly women of color, to find their voice and secure a seat at the table. Julia and Minda discuss the failures of "Lean In" to meaningfully address these issues, how to overcome common workplace obstacles and stereotypes, and how to achieve success through enrolling your coworkers and colleagues in the project of creating a truly equitable and respectful workplace.

Host: Julia Furlan (@juliastmi)

Guest: Minda Harts (@MindaHarts), author; founder and CEO of The Memo

References:

You Are More Than Magic: The Black and Brown Girls' Guide to Finding Your Voiceby Minda Harts
The Memo: What Women of Color Need to Know to Secure a Seat at the Table by Minda Harts
Lean In: Women, Work, and the Will to Leadby Sheryl Sandberg

Even Better is here to offer deeply sourced, actionable advice for helping you live a better life. Follow Even Better at vox.com/even-better.

Enjoyed this episode? Rate Vox Conversations ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of Vox Conversations by subscribing in your favorite podcast app.

Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

This episode was made by:

Producer: Erikk Geannikis

Editor: Amy Drozdowska

Engineer: Patrick Boyd

Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Why we're still postmodern (whatever that means) Aug 08, 2022

Show notes

Sean Illing talks with Stuart Jeffries, journalist and author of Everything, All the Time, Everywhere, about why postmodernism is so hard to define, and why — as Jeffries argues — it's still a very active presence in our culture and politics today. They discuss whether our desire should be understood as subversive or as a tool of capitalism, how postmodernism is inextricably linked with neoliberalism, and how to navigate our current culture of ubiquitous consumption and entertainment. What should we watch on TV: Boris Johnson's resignation speech, or the reality show Love Is Blind?

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews Writer, Vox

Guest: Stuart Jeffries, author; feature writer, The Guardian

References: