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    Outdoor

    The Gravel Ride. A cycling podcast

    The Gravel Ride is a cycling podcast where we discuss the people, places and products that define modern gravel cycling. We will be interviewing athletes, course designers and product designers who are influencing the sport. We will be providing information on where to ride, what to ride and how to stay stoked on gravel riding.

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    Latest Episodes:
    In the Dirt 26: Bars, Bags, Bikepacking and weights Nov 02, 2021
    Show notes

    In this week's In the Dirt, Randall and Craig take a look at gravel handlebar trends, new bags from Post Carry Co, Craig's new strength training with EverAthlete, a new Bay Area bikepacking route and tease an ongoing discussion of social media and cycling in The Ridership. Bay Area Triple Bypass Route Post Carry Bags Whisky Spano Bar Support the Podcast Join The Ridership Automated transcription, please excuse the typos and errors: Untitled [00:00:00] Craig Dalton: Hello and welcome to the gravel ride podcast. I'm your host Craig Dalton. I'll be joined shortly by my co-host randall jacobs for another episode of in the dirt . [00:00:12] This episode is brought to you by our friends at thesis bike. Yes. That indeed is Randall's company thesis. Randall donates his time to the gravel ride podcast in the dirt series, out of an abundance of passion for the sport. But he also runs a company called thesis, as you know, is the maker of the OB one bicycle. [00:00:33] That is actually the bicycle that I ride. If you follow me on social media, you may see my custom painted pink. Thesis, OB one. I affectionately refer to as Mr. Pinky. Anyway, I wanted to give you an update. Thesis has some bikes back in stock. [00:00:50] As I mentioned a few weeks ago, they've got some of those SRAM rival access grupos in stock. So they've got bikes ready to go, but more importantly, they've just, re-introduced their bring a friend referral program. That'll get you $500 off an OB one. When you purchase a bike with a friend. Or if you have a friend that has a thesis. [00:01:13] You can hit them up for a $500 discount. So coordinate with the team over a thesis. If you have any questions, you can email them@helloatthesis.bike. [00:01:23] Or check them out online@thesis.bike, they offer free one-on-one consultations, which is a great way to see if a thesis. It will be. One is the right bike for you. [00:01:33] With that said, let me grab Randall and let's jump into in the dirt. [00:01:37] Craig: Hey Randall, how you doing today? [00:01:39] Randall: I'm doing well, Craig, how are you? My friend. [00:01:42] Craig: I'm good. I literally just got done recording the pre-roll. [00:01:47] Talking about. [00:01:47] thesis, your company's new refer a friend program, which I thought was cool. [00:01:52] Let I let the listeners know about that, and I appreciate your efforts as a cohost of in the dirt, but separately, when you wear your thesis bike company, hat. I do appreciate the time to time financial support you provide the podcast. Because it really is the type of thing that keeps the balls rolling around here. [00:02:10] Randall: For sure. Yeah. In our bring your friend program is actually something we did before and had to pull when supply chains went sideways. And now that we have bikes in stock, we'd much rather reward the community rather than. You know, paying Bookface or some ad network to, to reach people. So it's nice to be able to reward those who help spread the word. And then obviously, you know, with what you do, it's been very aligned from the beginning. So thanks for the opportunity to work with you. [00:02:35] Craig: Yeah. [00:02:35] absolutely appreciate it. Yeah. It's so ridiculous that there was like 15 months or more in there where bike companies just didn't bother advertising or promoting themselves because it was so ridiculously hard product into consumer's hands. [00:02:50] Randall: Yeah, there's really no point in trying to sell something you don't have. And don't don't know when you'll have it again. That seems to be. That seems to be a phenomenon that's going to continue well into the future for awhile. From what [00:03:03] Craig: Yeah. I mean, not to bring sort of macroeconomic trends in here, but I was just, just listening to someone talk about how in Apple's earnings call. There is some suggestion that. Supply chains are improving. They have not improved entirely, but that they are. Improving and that in the grand scheme of things, this will be a temporary blip, but temporary could mean two years. [00:03:26] Randall: Yeah. Yeah. In their case, they're dealing with chips too, which I'm getting a new chip Foundry online is a multi-year $10 billion project. So fortunately we don't have that in the bike industry. We're pretty, pretty low on the technology front, even with our. Wireless shifting, which, how did that take so long to come come about? [00:03:46] Craig: How are you doing otherwise? Is the weather starting to change on the east coast for you? [00:03:49] Randall: We've had some beautiful days past several days. We had a nor'easter coming through. So I did steal away for a trail run between, between rains in the should have some good weather on the weekend and otherwise loving being with family here in Boston, it's a very different lifestyle than the one I was living in the bay area. [00:04:06] And it's a very much aligned with where I'm at. Yeah. [00:04:09] Craig: We get, we got absolutely hammered out here by that rainstorm in Moran. I think we had the highest rain count in Anywhere in California. [00:04:17] that weekend. I think we got on Tam and there's 12 inches of rain. So it was, it was literally coming out of every pore of The mountain. There were new streams and waterfalls being, being created. [00:04:29] I mean, God knows we needed the water. [00:04:31] and is so nice. I wrote up the mountain for Dawn patrol on a Wednesday and Just to see a little water. [00:04:36] in places where it has been devoid. Void because of the drought was, was nice. [00:04:42] Randall: When I did see your, your conversation or the conversation you chimed in on in, on, on the ridership about you know, opening up a new you know, gullies and things like this in the trails. So hopefully they're relatively intact. [00:04:55] Craig: Yeah, that was fun. I mean, that's one of those things that you and I have always like thought and hoped would happen in the ridership. Just this idea that a writer could pop a message into the forum and say, Hey, we just got this huge rainstorm. How, how are the trails looking? Is it rideable or is it too. [00:05:11] As it a sloppy mess. [00:05:13] Randall: Yeah, it's pretty neat. [00:05:14] Craig: The [00:05:14] Randall: been training quite a bit lately, right? [00:05:16] Craig: Yeah. [00:05:16] You know, I was going to say The other good. [00:05:17] thing about the rain and not being, Wanting to ride my bike outside. [00:05:22] lately, as I have. [00:05:23] committed to a strength training program. [00:05:25] It's one of those things as I've nagged about my back on the podcast. Many months ago. [00:05:31] That I've actually implemented a little bit of a plan And I've been. [00:05:35] working via a company called ever athlete. And I became aware of them. [00:05:41] As one of the founder is Kate Courtney's strength and conditioning coach, Kate Courtney being a former world champion mountain Biker. [00:05:49] who comes from This area. [00:05:51] And what, what appealed to me most about. The ever athlete program was that they have a run specific program, a cycling specific program, and then basic conditioning. [00:06:03] after chatting with them, [00:06:04] a little bit online. And I had a phone call with them just as a general consumer. You know, it was advised that I start with beginner strength training. [00:06:12] And Totally. [00:06:14] spot on if I started anything beyond beginner. I would have been absolutely destroyed. And frankly, like some of the exercises. Do you have me sore in places that are not used to being sore? [00:06:26] Randall: So if somebody were to ask you, do you even lift bro? The answer would be not quite yet. I'm doing the beginner stuff first. [00:06:34] Craig: Yeah. [00:06:35] Exactly. Like I don't have tank tops yet and a special weightlifting gear and gloves that I'm using, But I have. [00:06:42] I'm on weak. I'm proud of myself. [00:06:43] I just completed week four of an eight week, week block. [00:06:47] Just getting my body's too. Basic strength training. I'm using a TRX, some elastic bands. [00:06:54] And just a few basic weights. That's not a exorbitant setup, I'm just doing it. And, you know, eight by eight area of My garage. [00:07:02] every other day. [00:07:04] Randall: That's great. Yeah, I've. I've gotten on a reasonably regular routine with a pair of 50 pound power blocks, adjustable dumbbells, which I'm a big fan of I've tried a few different types of adjustable dumbbells and these are the best have had. And just like doing a basic routine with not a crazy amount of weight and then adding some chin ups and AB work and so on squats and stuff like that, with that together with running and stretching, and I'll probably be adding yoga. [00:07:30] As the winter progresses and I can't get outside so much. [00:07:33] Craig: Yeah, you'll have to put a note in the show notes for me on that one. I'd be interested. Cause I know in ever athletes list of things that I may need. That type of wait setup is, will come into play at some point. [00:07:45] Randall: Got it. Yeah. They don't, they don't pay us, but I can definitely endorse the power block sport. And it's totally sufficient for me, even at 50 pounds, because anything that I do with more than 50 pounds, I probably shouldn't be doing anyways. I don't need it. [00:07:57] Craig: Yeah, I mean, good God Right now. [00:07:58] Randall, I'm basically doing almost exclusively body weight exercises. [00:08:03] 50 pounds seems a long way away from where my current strength training is at. [00:08:08] Randall: Oh, you can get a whole lot of resistance with just body weight too. So there's no need to buy too much expensive gear, but yeah, these are a good one. [00:08:15] Craig: Yeah. [00:08:16] totally. I mean, I think I'll walk away from this, knowing that just even, even strictly a body weight program would be hugely beneficial. [00:08:23] Randall: Yeah, I think so. I'm curious to hear how your back is feeling in a couple of months. [00:08:28] Craig: Yeah, for sure. [00:08:28] So I've got an a, as I said, I've got another month on basic, and then I think I'll just carry over into their cycling, their first cycling Specific program. [00:08:36] And I've been chatting with them. [00:08:37] and I think I'll have them on the pod so we can get just a deeper dive into. [00:08:42] Not just Their program. [00:08:43] but just strength training specifically, and the, and the value for cyclists to take a break and do something different. [00:08:51] Randall: I remember hearing a quote somewhere that the biggest problem with cyclists in their training program is that they only ride their bikes. [00:08:59] Craig: A hundred percent. [00:09:00] It's funny. You mentioned that because another guest I've got coming up is a pretty world renowned. Bike fitter, but he from the UK, but he wrote a book called the midlife cyclist. [00:09:10] And I'm going to dig into it with him, but yeah, one of the key takeaways is as an average, enthusiastic and passionate, enthusiastic cyclist. [00:09:19] we're probably riding more and closer to our, not more by volume, but closer to our threshold than professional cyclists do because We go out there. [00:09:28] and we hammer, you know, we're just feeling like we're out there for a good time. [00:09:31] And the best thing you could do is probably. Lose a workout or two on the bike and change it into some strength training or something. That's you know, testing different parts of your body. [00:09:41] Randall: Yeah, I look forward to that episode. That'll be a good one. [00:09:44] Craig: Yeah. [00:09:45] I'm super excited about it. I mean, I've just been thinking about it. In light of my own winter and what I want to achieve and how I want to set myself up for success next year. And success for me just means into being healthy and strong enough to tackle. You know, a big event or two here or there and not have it totally destroyed me. [00:10:03] Randall: Yeah. And I think that for some of us do I, I ended up talking to a lot of athletes who are. You know, or later in years, and just being able to know that you can, you have some control over your ability to ride well into old age and maintained flexibility and bone density and injury prevention and all these other things is you know, it's, it's it's a good resource for folks to have to, to know how to, how to approach that. [00:10:28] Craig: Yeah, totally. I've. [00:10:28] got another great episode that I'm recording actually immediately after this with Brian McCulloch. Ah, [00:10:33] Former pro road racer, former BWR winner, and most recently just won. I think it was The masters category. [00:10:40] of mountain bike nationals. [00:10:41] So Awesome guys. [00:10:42] super enthusiastic. And one of the things he was telling me in his coaching practice. [00:10:47] was that, you know, he coaches plenty of athletes whose goal is I want to complete the event and then be totally Pepe for the beer garden afterwards. [00:10:57] And he's [00:10:57] I'm Totally down with it. No one wants to just barely crawl across the finish line And then have to go to their car. [00:11:04] to take a nap, especially in these gravel events. We want to finish, we want to commune with our fellow participants and, you know, I think that's a. Admirable goal for anyone to not only cross the finish line, but be able to. Party Hardy as the kids say. [00:11:20] Randall: Yeah. It's you know, you have the combination of having endured something with, with other people and then getting to connect like the, the vehicle for connection elements shines out of that, that statement there, which is certainly why I ride. [00:11:33] Craig: Yeah, totally. And speaking of events I know I did a recap episode of Water, but I thought we chat about that a little bit since it's something you've participated in, in years past. [00:11:42] Randall: number of times. Yeah, this is actually the first year, the first time in years that I didn't go. It, I just reading the reporting. It seems like the. You know, the new stuff was relatively sparse. There's a couple of things that you and I want to, to jump into in future episodes with the new BMC. [00:11:58] Headshot, they're not calling it a headshot, but it's, it looks like a head shock and surrounds new flight, attendants, suspension, and so on. So that'll be fun to dive into, but I'm curious, what else did you see that was compelling? [00:12:09] Craig: Yeah. You know, I mean, it's first off for those of you who don't know, it's quite the festival. I mean, you've got everything from downhill and Duro, gravel cross-country road racing. [00:12:20] While I find it. [00:12:21] a bit overwhelming, the sheer number of cyclists and people that are there. At Laguna Seca. It is fun to see someone in spandex and a pro road kit. Riding through the pits next to you, a downhill kid with his full face helmet, shoved back on his head with a neck brace. [00:12:39] Randall: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. [00:12:41] Craig: You know, from a, from a product perspective and manufacturer perspective. The number of booths was down. I mean, it still was quite a Hardy show, but I would say. You know, with the absence of the international. [00:12:54] Manufacturers. [00:12:55] coming is probably like 40%, less sheer booths. So it made it more manageable. Whereas now the last time they held it in person. [00:13:03] I felt like covering it in one day was just to…

    Full show notes at the publisher

    Whitney Allison - BWR Cedar City 2021 Champion Oct 26, 2021
    Show notes

    This week we sit down with Whitney Allison, BWR Cedar City Champion and Co-Founder of the Foco Fondo in Fort Collins, CO. Foco Fondo Whitney Allison Web and Instagram Support the Podcast Join The Ridership Automated Transcription (please excuse the typos): Whitney Allison [00:00:00] Craig Dalton: Hello and welcome to the gravel ride podcast. I'm your host Craig Dalton. This week on the podcast, we have Whitney, Alison who recently won the BWR Cedar city event. I don't know about you guys, but at the beginning of 2020, we are all poised and thinking about gravel racing and looking forward to a whole new crop of athletes coming into the mix. [00:00:25] With the pandemic. Many of those athletes have to sit on the sidelines. Lines as events were few and far between. We're at the Alison was one of those athletes who was poised to make a great start. In 2020, but with sidelined into 2021. Early in the season, she had a win at Co2UT. And started to be on people's radar. [00:00:45] Although. Although she deserved to be on the radar far before that. [00:00:48] With a strong ride to fourth place at Unbound. Around in 2021. I suppose it was no. Surprise that another wind was right around the corner. I originally met Whitney at. The ENVE Grodeo event earlier this year as she's an ENVE sponsored rider and it was great to finally get her on the podcast And Cast We talk about her racing career What brought her to gravel riding and also the Foco Fondo that her and her husband produced in Fort Collins, colorado. [00:01:13] I hope you enjoy the conversation. And with that, let's dive. Right in [00:01:17] Whitney. Welcome to the show. [00:01:19] Whitney Allison: Thanks. Thanks for having me. [00:01:21] Craig Dalton: Yeah. I'm excited to talk to you about your season and gravel and what's next for you, but I always like to start off by learning a little bit about how you came to the sport of cycling and ultimately how you came to riding off-road with gravel. [00:01:33] Whitney Allison: Yeah. I find cycling after high school. [00:01:37] When I got to college, I went the pledget route. I thought I was going to go for. Soccer to being a normal college student got immediately bored. And, but I do lot. And and I ended up going on a group ride with a cycling team and women are worth a lot of points in collegiate racing. So they like really took me under their wing and kind of showed me the ropes and like collegiate cycling is such an incredible way to get into the sport. [00:02:06] You get to find this really unique balance of both seriousness and fun at the same time, I think, as unique to any other area of cycling [00:02:16] Craig Dalton: right now. Yeah. It's so interesting and mean, we talk about teams in cycling, but nothing really compares to the idea of a collegiate cycling team. [00:02:25] Whitney Allison: Yeah. And you have just such a range. [00:02:28] Athletes from maybe athletes who've never participated into a sport to people who've always been in a sport or maybe even always in cycling and you show up and you're S you're unified, whether you're in like the age category or when I was there, they only have A's and B's for women. So it didn't matter like how good you were. [00:02:49] You were just still a very essential and important and welcome part [00:02:53] Craig Dalton: of the. And we'll you riding both road and off-road at that point? [00:02:57] Whitney Allison: Mostly just road. I didn't really have a mountain bike. I think I borrowed somebody's bike a couple of times for some mountain bike races, but mostly just the road. [00:03:08] Craig Dalton: And what part of the country where you located in for college? I went to [00:03:12] Whitney Allison: UT. So it's, I think it was just exclusively Texas for the conference, which is plenty big state. [00:03:19] Craig Dalton: And was it a pretty popular sport? Was it a large program that you were involved in? [00:03:23] Whitney Allison: It was really large. My first couple of years, I want to say that there were almost like 30 women competing in the A's, which was like so rad. [00:03:32] Like I remember my first race and the A's on. I didn't know how to sprint. I didn't know how to get out of the saddle and just like sprinting and saddle and like still ending up on the podium. I had no idea what was going on, which is really funny if you know me too, because I'm not really, I'm a sprinter. [00:03:50] So that's extra funding. [00:03:53] Craig Dalton: Did you immediately start seeing post-collegiate opportunities in the professional cycling ranks? Was that an idea that you had early on in your collegiate? [00:04:01] Whitney Allison: I definitely cat it up pretty quickly. I was also doing a lot of races in Austin at the time. I ended up getting on a development team out of Dallas that I believe it's still loosely associated with DNA pro cycling. [00:04:14] But this is this would have been like 2008, 2008 or 2009. And so I was able to get on this team and it had a lot of the national level, like each 23 women at the time. And so that was something I was on the team, it was a regional writer. But immediately did really well. So I ended up with more opportunities than what was originally planned. [00:04:35] And it was definitely like wild, like looking at some of those women. I had a lot of admiration for the. Just really talented women that, who wouldn't want to be an athlete like that. So I did get a race, do a lot of the national stage race stuff, starting my junior year of college. [00:04:51] And then and my senior year. And then after that, I had to get a full-time job [00:04:56] Craig Dalton: As many professional cyclists have to do unfortunate. [00:05:00] Whitney Allison: Yeah, the student loans don't pay themselves. [00:05:03] Craig Dalton: And then, so what was next for you and the cycling career? [00:05:06] Whitney Allison: So I definitely still had, I still wanted to race professionally and do well there. [00:05:12] I've always wanted to be an athlete. It's just something that's very much a part of my identity. So while working full time at this office job in port Collins, which is where I live now, I somehow convinced my the company owner to one Spencer me, and to let me go race all summer while working remotely, which had never been done. [00:05:33] And it was to their demise because essentially as soon as I paid off my student loans, I like left. And eventually I would get a contract with Colavita in 2013. And stayed with them for, I think, four or five years until joining Superman, Huggins, Roman Superman with my former teammate, Lily Williams, who you've talked to before for the 2018 and 2019 season. [00:06:02] Craig Dalton: And I've heard everything I've heard about that program as it was such a tight knit group of women and everybody had each other's backs, it sounded like a great experience. Those two years, [00:06:12] Whitney Allison: it really was. You usually get some of that. I feel like on teams, but it's very rare that you could get it across such a high percentage of the writers. [00:06:23] So it really was like a special time. We still have a WhatsApp text thread that still gets used. Most of us are all still in touch, which is really. [00:06:31] Craig Dalton: Was 2019 a planned retirement from the road scene or did something happen? I know the team obviously stopped existing, I think at that point. [00:06:40] But what was that your trajectory or your expectation prior to that? [00:06:44] Whitney Allison: My trajectory part of, if we pedal back a little bit in August of 2018, I was hit by a driver with an Airstream a couple of days before Colorado. In Colorado. Classic is like a race I've always done really well at. I broke a bunch of bones, had PTSD, went through all sorts of therapy for that. [00:07:03] And, I was really fortunate to be on a team that was really supportive. And so they're like, of course you have a contract for next year and let us know what you need, let us know how to support you. But it also meant like I couldn't be on social media and I'm focused on coming back. A good mind as best physical ability as possible while still healing from injuries that will have for their spirit life. [00:07:26] And managing that's like really hard. And I was really proud to come back for the 2019 season, but it was really hard for me to put together performances that were. I was as good as I was having in 2018. I did finally in 2019 with the last race of the season, I did get on the podium at Colorado classic couple of days after the one-year anniversary of my crash. [00:07:53] And that was like really powerful, but unfortunately from a professional road standpoint, it wasn't enough to find a similar contract than it. So it was a sad reluctant retirement. And so I thought what about the Scrabble thing? It was something that had always interested me, but I really wanted to ride that professional growth wave wall. [00:08:16] It was there. Just because those are really special times. Yeah. The green teres and Europe, and do a lot of these like iconic spring classics and things like that are just there once in a lifetime opportunities. So 2021 is going to be my big you're getting into gravel and I'm still off of social media because I'm still in litigation. [00:08:36] And then the endemic hit. So that was like really isolate. Cause you're like, oh, I I could be a really good gravel racer, but nobody has any idea. [00:08:46] Craig Dalton: Yeah. I feel like at the beginning of 2020, which there was all this, we knew a bunch of new events were happening. We knew obviously there was other professional athletes, both men and women coming into the scene, but none of that happened and we had no idea. [00:09:00] So when 2021, when racing actually happened, For me, like watching the women's scene. I just saw all these names that I hadn't heard of before. And obviously when you do a little research, that these women didn't come out of nowhere. They were incredibly talented for a number of years, but I feel like you, they were ready in 2020, but they just didn't get an opportunity to expose their skillset, which is making 20, 21 very exciting as a fan of women's gravel racing. [00:09:27] Whitney Allison: Yeah, totally. I was entirely under the radar. Just waiting out the pandemic. It did help a bit. Like I was able to finally settle my case and not have to go to trial, which was really, it was a huge relief in a lot of ways. Cause it, I also unfortunately with how our modern world works, you really have to be online. [00:09:49] And without being able to be online and represent myself as an athlete, it was a. It was a pretty large hit and these other ways that you don't necessarily think of. So I was literally a secret for several years. So yeah, in 2021 rolls around, [00:10:06] Craig Dalton: did you feel like in 2020 that you had the kind of gravel skillset, the technical skillset to be successful or was 2020 a good opportunity to just spend more time on the dirt and really get those skills underneath? [00:10:19] Whitney Allison: It was definitely helpful. Cause like that was the only thing that there was to do because everything else was so depressing. It was just like spend a lot of time in the mountains. Yeah, we have lots of incredible writing super close to us. So then that is definitely a gift of 2020. [00:10:34] Craig Dalton: Absolutely. And so for 2021, did you have your heart set on a certain series of races that you wanted to tackle throughout? [00:10:41] Whitney Allison: I knew that given my circumstances that I would need to hit up a lot of the quote, unquote like most prestigious or most followed events in order to get my foot in the door and establish myself. [00:10:59] I. I was curious about Unbound. I thought that there was a chance that I could do pretty well there. Just based on the type of road rider I was, which is just like all power all day, but I've always been curious, like how long does that last, if you actually like try turns out, that 12 hours? [00:11:22] Yes. I kicked off the season. One of my early season races was Cotuit, which I wanted, which was in Fruita. And it's funny because I was under the radar for so long. Remember some of the feedback I was hearing was is she even fast? Did she win by a fluke in feedback like that? [00:11:42] Which was funny [00:11:44] Craig Dalton: That it, that is the booze social media moment when you just get trolls like that coming out. [00:11:51] Whitney Allison: Yeah. And it's it's whatever I don't really care that somebody off the couch has to say in regards to something like that, but it's still pretty funny. Like I've been here the whole time. It's just. [00:12:03] You didn't know that [00:12:05] Craig Dalton: exactly. Hopefully, and I think this is going to be true after 2021. There's not going to be many people who follow this sport who don't know your name. We'll see. So you followed that up with a fourth place at Unbound unbounded, a 200 mile event, which is pretty spectacular. [00:12:21] Whitney Allison: Yeah. [00:12:22] And that was like, I honestly thought I was somewhere in the top 10 when I finished, because I had 300. And 47 minutes of stoppage of crash with the front flat. I use like the neutral support paid service for aid stuff. Cause we didn't have a aide support person and the person ripped my candle back apart. [00:12:46] So I didn't have my Camelback for the race after the 50 mile mark. So I rode with literal plastic water bottles in my pockets for the rest of the 200. [00:12:56] Craig Dalton: Yeah, I think it's actually a good lesson for a lot of racers that like shit happens and you just gotta roll with it along the way. And so many you can be in first place and go to 10th place and vice versa with just the, the whatever's going to happen on the course. [00:13:15] Whitney Allison: Yeah. And I think like success in these events, it's not necessarily. Okay. Do you experience bad luck? It's more do you have an absence of bad luck versus having good luck? Like it, it doesn't matter. Like you could ride over the same thing as another person, but for whatever reason, the rock just hits your tire. [00:13:37] Just that much different. And it's not necessarily oh, you don't know how to choose a line or. You chose a bad tire pressure. It literally just could be a tiny bit of that. Yeah. [00:13:49] Craig Dalton: Yeah. I talked to so many people who like throw away their favorite tire set because it failed them at Unbound. [00:13:55] And I keep thinking to myself, it's because the person in front of you turn that rock over the wrong way and you just happened to hit it. It's not that particular tire is too. [00:14:04] Whitney Allison: I know. I fought it in the most benign sections, which I thought was super obnoxious. I would have rather flooded and the really like pokey technical sections. [00:14:12] But [00:14:13] Craig Dalton: the most recently prior to recording this, you had a big victory at BWR Cedar city, which is amazing. Congratulations on that. [00:14:22] Whitney Allison: Thanks. It was a really nice way to end my first year of gravel racing. [00:14:27] Craig Dalton: I have to say, as a spectator on the couch, it was great. The coverage of the women's event, you felt like you were there, you got a lot of information along the way, and you felt the ebb and flow between you and the other riders and the top four or five, which was great to watch. [00:14:40] I also noted that there was a lot of technicality in it. BWR San Diego, for example, not knowing. An extremely tactical event,…

    Full show notes at the publisher

    Whitney Allison - BWR Cedar City 2021 Champion Oct 26, 2021
    Show notes

    This week we sit down with Whitney Allison, BWR Cedar City Champion and Co-Founder of the Foco Fondo in Fort Collins, CO. Foco Fondo Whitney Allison Web and Instagram Support the Podcast Join The Ridership Automated Transcription (please excuse the typos): Whitney Allison [00:00:00] Craig Dalton: Hello and welcome to the gravel ride podcast. I'm your host Craig Dalton. This week on the podcast, we have Whitney, Alison who recently won the BWR Cedar city event. I don't know about you guys, but at the beginning of 2020, we are all poised and thinking about gravel racing and looking forward to a whole new crop of athletes coming into the mix. [00:00:25] With the pandemic. Many of those athletes have to sit on the sidelines. Lines as events were few and far between. We're at the Alison was one of those athletes who was poised to make a great start. In 2020, but with sidelined into 2021. Early in the season, she had a win at Co2UT. And started to be on people's radar. [00:00:45] Although. Although she deserved to be on the radar far before that. [00:00:48] With a strong ride to fourth place at Unbound. Around in 2021. I suppose it was no. Surprise that another wind was right around the corner. I originally met Whitney at. The ENVE Grodeo event earlier this year as she's an ENVE sponsored rider and it was great to finally get her on the podcast And Cast We talk about her racing career What brought her to gravel riding and also the Foco Fondo that her and her husband produced in Fort Collins, colorado. [00:01:13] I hope you enjoy the conversation. And with that, let's dive. Right in [00:01:17] Whitney. Welcome to the show. [00:01:19] Whitney Allison: Thanks. Thanks for having me. [00:01:21] Craig Dalton: Yeah. I'm excited to talk to you about your season and gravel and what's next for you, but I always like to start off by learning a little bit about how you came to the sport of cycling and ultimately how you came to riding off-road with gravel. [00:01:33] Whitney Allison: Yeah. I find cycling after high school. [00:01:37] When I got to college, I went the pledget route. I thought I was going to go for. Soccer to being a normal college student got immediately bored. And, but I do lot. And and I ended up going on a group ride with a cycling team and women are worth a lot of points in collegiate racing. So they like really took me under their wing and kind of showed me the ropes and like collegiate cycling is such an incredible way to get into the sport. [00:02:06] You get to find this really unique balance of both seriousness and fun at the same time, I think, as unique to any other area of cycling [00:02:16] Craig Dalton: right now. Yeah. It's so interesting and mean, we talk about teams in cycling, but nothing really compares to the idea of a collegiate cycling team. [00:02:25] Whitney Allison: Yeah. And you have just such a range. [00:02:28] Athletes from maybe athletes who've never participated into a sport to people who've always been in a sport or maybe even always in cycling and you show up and you're S you're unified, whether you're in like the age category or when I was there, they only have A's and B's for women. So it didn't matter like how good you were. [00:02:49] You were just still a very essential and important and welcome part [00:02:53] Craig Dalton: of the. And we'll you riding both road and off-road at that point? [00:02:57] Whitney Allison: Mostly just road. I didn't really have a mountain bike. I think I borrowed somebody's bike a couple of times for some mountain bike races, but mostly just the road. [00:03:08] Craig Dalton: And what part of the country where you located in for college? I went to [00:03:12] Whitney Allison: UT. So it's, I think it was just exclusively Texas for the conference, which is plenty big state. [00:03:19] Craig Dalton: And was it a pretty popular sport? Was it a large program that you were involved in? [00:03:23] Whitney Allison: It was really large. My first couple of years, I want to say that there were almost like 30 women competing in the A's, which was like so rad. [00:03:32] Like I remember my first race and the A's on. I didn't know how to sprint. I didn't know how to get out of the saddle and just like sprinting and saddle and like still ending up on the podium. I had no idea what was going on, which is really funny if you know me too, because I'm not really, I'm a sprinter. [00:03:50] So that's extra funding. [00:03:53] Craig Dalton: Did you immediately start seeing post-collegiate opportunities in the professional cycling ranks? Was that an idea that you had early on in your collegiate? [00:04:01] Whitney Allison: I definitely cat it up pretty quickly. I was also doing a lot of races in Austin at the time. I ended up getting on a development team out of Dallas that I believe it's still loosely associated with DNA pro cycling. [00:04:14] But this is this would have been like 2008, 2008 or 2009. And so I was able to get on this team and it had a lot of the national level, like each 23 women at the time. And so that was something I was on the team, it was a regional writer. But immediately did really well. So I ended up with more opportunities than what was originally planned. [00:04:35] And it was definitely like wild, like looking at some of those women. I had a lot of admiration for the. Just really talented women that, who wouldn't want to be an athlete like that. So I did get a race, do a lot of the national stage race stuff, starting my junior year of college. [00:04:51] And then and my senior year. And then after that, I had to get a full-time job [00:04:56] Craig Dalton: As many professional cyclists have to do unfortunate. [00:05:00] Whitney Allison: Yeah, the student loans don't pay themselves. [00:05:03] Craig Dalton: And then, so what was next for you and the cycling career? [00:05:06] Whitney Allison: So I definitely still had, I still wanted to race professionally and do well there. [00:05:12] I've always wanted to be an athlete. It's just something that's very much a part of my identity. So while working full time at this office job in port Collins, which is where I live now, I somehow convinced my the company owner to one Spencer me, and to let me go race all summer while working remotely, which had never been done. [00:05:33] And it was to their demise because essentially as soon as I paid off my student loans, I like left. And eventually I would get a contract with Colavita in 2013. And stayed with them for, I think, four or five years until joining Superman, Huggins, Roman Superman with my former teammate, Lily Williams, who you've talked to before for the 2018 and 2019 season. [00:06:02] Craig Dalton: And I've heard everything I've heard about that program as it was such a tight knit group of women and everybody had each other's backs, it sounded like a great experience. Those two years, [00:06:12] Whitney Allison: it really was. You usually get some of that. I feel like on teams, but it's very rare that you could get it across such a high percentage of the writers. [00:06:23] So it really was like a special time. We still have a WhatsApp text thread that still gets used. Most of us are all still in touch, which is really. [00:06:31] Craig Dalton: Was 2019 a planned retirement from the road scene or did something happen? I know the team obviously stopped existing, I think at that point. [00:06:40] But what was that your trajectory or your expectation prior to that? [00:06:44] Whitney Allison: My trajectory part of, if we pedal back a little bit in August of 2018, I was hit by a driver with an Airstream a couple of days before Colorado. In Colorado. Classic is like a race I've always done really well at. I broke a bunch of bones, had PTSD, went through all sorts of therapy for that. [00:07:03] And, I was really fortunate to be on a team that was really supportive. And so they're like, of course you have a contract for next year and let us know what you need, let us know how to support you. But it also meant like I couldn't be on social media and I'm focused on coming back. A good mind as best physical ability as possible while still healing from injuries that will have for their spirit life. [00:07:26] And managing that's like really hard. And I was really proud to come back for the 2019 season, but it was really hard for me to put together performances that were. I was as good as I was having in 2018. I did finally in 2019 with the last race of the season, I did get on the podium at Colorado classic couple of days after the one-year anniversary of my crash. [00:07:53] And that was like really powerful, but unfortunately from a professional road standpoint, it wasn't enough to find a similar contract than it. So it was a sad reluctant retirement. And so I thought what about the Scrabble thing? It was something that had always interested me, but I really wanted to ride that professional growth wave wall. [00:08:16] It was there. Just because those are really special times. Yeah. The green teres and Europe, and do a lot of these like iconic spring classics and things like that are just there once in a lifetime opportunities. So 2021 is going to be my big you're getting into gravel and I'm still off of social media because I'm still in litigation. [00:08:36] And then the endemic hit. So that was like really isolate. Cause you're like, oh, I I could be a really good gravel racer, but nobody has any idea. [00:08:46] Craig Dalton: Yeah. I feel like at the beginning of 2020, which there was all this, we knew a bunch of new events were happening. We knew obviously there was other professional athletes, both men and women coming into the scene, but none of that happened and we had no idea. [00:09:00] So when 2021, when racing actually happened, For me, like watching the women's scene. I just saw all these names that I hadn't heard of before. And obviously when you do a little research, that these women didn't come out of nowhere. They were incredibly talented for a number of years, but I feel like you, they were ready in 2020, but they just didn't get an opportunity to expose their skillset, which is making 20, 21 very exciting as a fan of women's gravel racing. [00:09:27] Whitney Allison: Yeah, totally. I was entirely under the radar. Just waiting out the pandemic. It did help a bit. Like I was able to finally settle my case and not have to go to trial, which was really, it was a huge relief in a lot of ways. Cause it, I also unfortunately with how our modern world works, you really have to be online. [00:09:49] And without being able to be online and represent myself as an athlete, it was a. It was a pretty large hit and these other ways that you don't necessarily think of. So I was literally a secret for several years. So yeah, in 2021 rolls around, [00:10:06] Craig Dalton: did you feel like in 2020 that you had the kind of gravel skillset, the technical skillset to be successful or was 2020 a good opportunity to just spend more time on the dirt and really get those skills underneath? [00:10:19] Whitney Allison: It was definitely helpful. Cause like that was the only thing that there was to do because everything else was so depressing. It was just like spend a lot of time in the mountains. Yeah, we have lots of incredible writing super close to us. So then that is definitely a gift of 2020. [00:10:34] Craig Dalton: Absolutely. And so for 2021, did you have your heart set on a certain series of races that you wanted to tackle throughout? [00:10:41] Whitney Allison: I knew that given my circumstances that I would need to hit up a lot of the quote, unquote like most prestigious or most followed events in order to get my foot in the door and establish myself. [00:10:59] I. I was curious about Unbound. I thought that there was a chance that I could do pretty well there. Just based on the type of road rider I was, which is just like all power all day, but I've always been curious, like how long does that last, if you actually like try turns out, that 12 hours? [00:11:22] Yes. I kicked off the season. One of my early season races was Cotuit, which I wanted, which was in Fruita. And it's funny because I was under the radar for so long. Remember some of the feedback I was hearing was is she even fast? Did she win by a fluke in feedback like that? [00:11:42] Which was funny [00:11:44] Craig Dalton: That it, that is the booze social media moment when you just get trolls like that coming out. [00:11:51] Whitney Allison: Yeah. And it's it's whatever I don't really care that somebody off the couch has to say in regards to something like that, but it's still pretty funny. Like I've been here the whole time. It's just. [00:12:03] You didn't know that [00:12:05] Craig Dalton: exactly. Hopefully, and I think this is going to be true after 2021. There's not going to be many people who follow this sport who don't know your name. We'll see. So you followed that up with a fourth place at Unbound unbounded, a 200 mile event, which is pretty spectacular. [00:12:21] Whitney Allison: Yeah. [00:12:22] And that was like, I honestly thought I was somewhere in the top 10 when I finished, because I had 300. And 47 minutes of stoppage of crash with the front flat. I use like the neutral support paid service for aid stuff. Cause we didn't have a aide support person and the person ripped my candle back apart. [00:12:46] So I didn't have my Camelback for the race after the 50 mile mark. So I rode with literal plastic water bottles in my pockets for the rest of the 200. [00:12:56] Craig Dalton: Yeah, I think it's actually a good lesson for a lot of racers that like shit happens and you just gotta roll with it along the way. And so many you can be in first place and go to 10th place and vice versa with just the, the whatever's going to happen on the course. [00:13:15] Whitney Allison: Yeah. And I think like success in these events, it's not necessarily. Okay. Do you experience bad luck? It's more do you have an absence of bad luck versus having good luck? Like it, it doesn't matter. Like you could ride over the same thing as another person, but for whatever reason, the rock just hits your tire. [00:13:37] Just that much different. And it's not necessarily oh, you don't know how to choose a line or. You chose a bad tire pressure. It literally just could be a tiny bit of that. Yeah. [00:13:49] Craig Dalton: Yeah. I talked to so many people who like throw away their favorite tire set because it failed them at Unbound. [00:13:55] And I keep thinking to myself, it's because the person in front of you turn that rock over the wrong way and you just happened to hit it. It's not that particular tire is too. [00:14:04] Whitney Allison: I know. I fought it in the most benign sections, which I thought was super obnoxious. I would have rather flooded and the really like pokey technical sections. [00:14:12] But [00:14:13] Craig Dalton: the most recently prior to recording this, you had a big victory at BWR Cedar city, which is amazing. Congratulations on that. [00:14:22] Whitney Allison: Thanks. It was a really nice way to end my first year of gravel racing. [00:14:27] Craig Dalton: I have to say, as a spectator on the couch, it was great. The coverage of the women's event, you felt like you were there, you got a lot of information along the way, and you felt the ebb and flow between you and the other riders and the top four or five, which was great to watch. [00:14:40] I also noted that there was a lot of technicality in it. BWR San Diego, for example, not knowing. An extremely tactical event,…

    Full show notes at the publisher

    Whitney Allison - BWR Cedar City 2021 Champion Oct 26, 2021
    Show notes

    This week we sit down with Whitney Allison, BWR Cedar City Champion and Co-Founder of the Foco Fondo in Fort Collins, CO. Foco Fondo Whitney Allison Web and Instagram Support the Podcast Join The Ridership Automated Transcription (please excuse the typos): Whitney Allison [00:00:00] Craig Dalton: Hello and welcome to the gravel ride podcast. I'm your host Craig Dalton. This week on the podcast, we have Whitney, Alison who recently won the BWR Cedar city event. I don't know about you guys, but at the beginning of 2020, we are all poised and thinking about gravel racing and looking forward to a whole new crop of athletes coming into the mix. [00:00:25] With the pandemic. Many of those athletes have to sit on the sidelines. Lines as events were few and far between. We're at the Alison was one of those athletes who was poised to make a great start. In 2020, but with sidelined into 2021. Early in the season, she had a win at Co2UT. And started to be on people's radar. [00:00:45] Although. Although she deserved to be on the radar far before that. [00:00:48] With a strong ride to fourth place at Unbound. Around in 2021. I suppose it was no. Surprise that another wind was right around the corner. I originally met Whitney at. The ENVE Grodeo event earlier this year as she's an ENVE sponsored rider and it was great to finally get her on the podcast And Cast We talk about her racing career What brought her to gravel riding and also the Foco Fondo that her and her husband produced in Fort Collins, colorado. [00:01:13] I hope you enjoy the conversation. And with that, let's dive. Right in [00:01:17] Whitney. Welcome to the show. [00:01:19] Whitney Allison: Thanks. Thanks for having me. [00:01:21] Craig Dalton: Yeah. I'm excited to talk to you about your season and gravel and what's next for you, but I always like to start off by learning a little bit about how you came to the sport of cycling and ultimately how you came to riding off-road with gravel. [00:01:33] Whitney Allison: Yeah. I find cycling after high school. [00:01:37] When I got to college, I went the pledget route. I thought I was going to go for. Soccer to being a normal college student got immediately bored. And, but I do lot. And and I ended up going on a group ride with a cycling team and women are worth a lot of points in collegiate racing. So they like really took me under their wing and kind of showed me the ropes and like collegiate cycling is such an incredible way to get into the sport. [00:02:06] You get to find this really unique balance of both seriousness and fun at the same time, I think, as unique to any other area of cycling [00:02:16] Craig Dalton: right now. Yeah. It's so interesting and mean, we talk about teams in cycling, but nothing really compares to the idea of a collegiate cycling team. [00:02:25] Whitney Allison: Yeah. And you have just such a range. [00:02:28] Athletes from maybe athletes who've never participated into a sport to people who've always been in a sport or maybe even always in cycling and you show up and you're S you're unified, whether you're in like the age category or when I was there, they only have A's and B's for women. So it didn't matter like how good you were. [00:02:49] You were just still a very essential and important and welcome part [00:02:53] Craig Dalton: of the. And we'll you riding both road and off-road at that point? [00:02:57] Whitney Allison: Mostly just road. I didn't really have a mountain bike. I think I borrowed somebody's bike a couple of times for some mountain bike races, but mostly just the road. [00:03:08] Craig Dalton: And what part of the country where you located in for college? I went to [00:03:12] Whitney Allison: UT. So it's, I think it was just exclusively Texas for the conference, which is plenty big state. [00:03:19] Craig Dalton: And was it a pretty popular sport? Was it a large program that you were involved in? [00:03:23] Whitney Allison: It was really large. My first couple of years, I want to say that there were almost like 30 women competing in the A's, which was like so rad. [00:03:32] Like I remember my first race and the A's on. I didn't know how to sprint. I didn't know how to get out of the saddle and just like sprinting and saddle and like still ending up on the podium. I had no idea what was going on, which is really funny if you know me too, because I'm not really, I'm a sprinter. [00:03:50] So that's extra funding. [00:03:53] Craig Dalton: Did you immediately start seeing post-collegiate opportunities in the professional cycling ranks? Was that an idea that you had early on in your collegiate? [00:04:01] Whitney Allison: I definitely cat it up pretty quickly. I was also doing a lot of races in Austin at the time. I ended up getting on a development team out of Dallas that I believe it's still loosely associated with DNA pro cycling. [00:04:14] But this is this would have been like 2008, 2008 or 2009. And so I was able to get on this team and it had a lot of the national level, like each 23 women at the time. And so that was something I was on the team, it was a regional writer. But immediately did really well. So I ended up with more opportunities than what was originally planned. [00:04:35] And it was definitely like wild, like looking at some of those women. I had a lot of admiration for the. Just really talented women that, who wouldn't want to be an athlete like that. So I did get a race, do a lot of the national stage race stuff, starting my junior year of college. [00:04:51] And then and my senior year. And then after that, I had to get a full-time job [00:04:56] Craig Dalton: As many professional cyclists have to do unfortunate. [00:05:00] Whitney Allison: Yeah, the student loans don't pay themselves. [00:05:03] Craig Dalton: And then, so what was next for you and the cycling career? [00:05:06] Whitney Allison: So I definitely still had, I still wanted to race professionally and do well there. [00:05:12] I've always wanted to be an athlete. It's just something that's very much a part of my identity. So while working full time at this office job in port Collins, which is where I live now, I somehow convinced my the company owner to one Spencer me, and to let me go race all summer while working remotely, which had never been done. [00:05:33] And it was to their demise because essentially as soon as I paid off my student loans, I like left. And eventually I would get a contract with Colavita in 2013. And stayed with them for, I think, four or five years until joining Superman, Huggins, Roman Superman with my former teammate, Lily Williams, who you've talked to before for the 2018 and 2019 season. [00:06:02] Craig Dalton: And I've heard everything I've heard about that program as it was such a tight knit group of women and everybody had each other's backs, it sounded like a great experience. Those two years, [00:06:12] Whitney Allison: it really was. You usually get some of that. I feel like on teams, but it's very rare that you could get it across such a high percentage of the writers. [00:06:23] So it really was like a special time. We still have a WhatsApp text thread that still gets used. Most of us are all still in touch, which is really. [00:06:31] Craig Dalton: Was 2019 a planned retirement from the road scene or did something happen? I know the team obviously stopped existing, I think at that point. [00:06:40] But what was that your trajectory or your expectation prior to that? [00:06:44] Whitney Allison: My trajectory part of, if we pedal back a little bit in August of 2018, I was hit by a driver with an Airstream a couple of days before Colorado. In Colorado. Classic is like a race I've always done really well at. I broke a bunch of bones, had PTSD, went through all sorts of therapy for that. [00:07:03] And, I was really fortunate to be on a team that was really supportive. And so they're like, of course you have a contract for next year and let us know what you need, let us know how to support you. But it also meant like I couldn't be on social media and I'm focused on coming back. A good mind as best physical ability as possible while still healing from injuries that will have for their spirit life. [00:07:26] And managing that's like really hard. And I was really proud to come back for the 2019 season, but it was really hard for me to put together performances that were. I was as good as I was having in 2018. I did finally in 2019 with the last race of the season, I did get on the podium at Colorado classic couple of days after the one-year anniversary of my crash. [00:07:53] And that was like really powerful, but unfortunately from a professional road standpoint, it wasn't enough to find a similar contract than it. So it was a sad reluctant retirement. And so I thought what about the Scrabble thing? It was something that had always interested me, but I really wanted to ride that professional growth wave wall. [00:08:16] It was there. Just because those are really special times. Yeah. The green teres and Europe, and do a lot of these like iconic spring classics and things like that are just there once in a lifetime opportunities. So 2021 is going to be my big you're getting into gravel and I'm still off of social media because I'm still in litigation. [00:08:36] And then the endemic hit. So that was like really isolate. Cause you're like, oh, I I could be a really good gravel racer, but nobody has any idea. [00:08:46] Craig Dalton: Yeah. I feel like at the beginning of 2020, which there was all this, we knew a bunch of new events were happening. We knew obviously there was other professional athletes, both men and women coming into the scene, but none of that happened and we had no idea. [00:09:00] So when 2021, when racing actually happened, For me, like watching the women's scene. I just saw all these names that I hadn't heard of before. And obviously when you do a little research, that these women didn't come out of nowhere. They were incredibly talented for a number of years, but I feel like you, they were ready in 2020, but they just didn't get an opportunity to expose their skillset, which is making 20, 21 very exciting as a fan of women's gravel racing. [00:09:27] Whitney Allison: Yeah, totally. I was entirely under the radar. Just waiting out the pandemic. It did help a bit. Like I was able to finally settle my case and not have to go to trial, which was really, it was a huge relief in a lot of ways. Cause it, I also unfortunately with how our modern world works, you really have to be online. [00:09:49] And without being able to be online and represent myself as an athlete, it was a. It was a pretty large hit and these other ways that you don't necessarily think of. So I was literally a secret for several years. So yeah, in 2021 rolls around, [00:10:06] Craig Dalton: did you feel like in 2020 that you had the kind of gravel skillset, the technical skillset to be successful or was 2020 a good opportunity to just spend more time on the dirt and really get those skills underneath? [00:10:19] Whitney Allison: It was definitely helpful. Cause like that was the only thing that there was to do because everything else was so depressing. It was just like spend a lot of time in the mountains. Yeah, we have lots of incredible writing super close to us. So then that is definitely a gift of 2020. [00:10:34] Craig Dalton: Absolutely. And so for 2021, did you have your heart set on a certain series of races that you wanted to tackle throughout? [00:10:41] Whitney Allison: I knew that given my circumstances that I would need to hit up a lot of the quote, unquote like most prestigious or most followed events in order to get my foot in the door and establish myself. [00:10:59] I. I was curious about Unbound. I thought that there was a chance that I could do pretty well there. Just based on the type of road rider I was, which is just like all power all day, but I've always been curious, like how long does that last, if you actually like try turns out, that 12 hours? [00:11:22] Yes. I kicked off the season. One of my early season races was Cotuit, which I wanted, which was in Fruita. And it's funny because I was under the radar for so long. Remember some of the feedback I was hearing was is she even fast? Did she win by a fluke in feedback like that? [00:11:42] Which was funny [00:11:44] Craig Dalton: That it, that is the booze social media moment when you just get trolls like that coming out. [00:11:51] Whitney Allison: Yeah. And it's it's whatever I don't really care that somebody off the couch has to say in regards to something like that, but it's still pretty funny. Like I've been here the whole time. It's just. [00:12:03] You didn't know that [00:12:05] Craig Dalton: exactly. Hopefully, and I think this is going to be true after 2021. There's not going to be many people who follow this sport who don't know your name. We'll see. So you followed that up with a fourth place at Unbound unbounded, a 200 mile event, which is pretty spectacular. [00:12:21] Whitney Allison: Yeah. [00:12:22] And that was like, I honestly thought I was somewhere in the top 10 when I finished, because I had 300. And 47 minutes of stoppage of crash with the front flat. I use like the neutral support paid service for aid stuff. Cause we didn't have a aide support person and the person ripped my candle back apart. [00:12:46] So I didn't have my Camelback for the race after the 50 mile mark. So I rode with literal plastic water bottles in my pockets for the rest of the 200. [00:12:56] Craig Dalton: Yeah, I think it's actually a good lesson for a lot of racers that like shit happens and you just gotta roll with it along the way. And so many you can be in first place and go to 10th place and vice versa with just the, the whatever's going to happen on the course. [00:13:15] Whitney Allison: Yeah. And I think like success in these events, it's not necessarily. Okay. Do you experience bad luck? It's more do you have an absence of bad luck versus having good luck? Like it, it doesn't matter. Like you could ride over the same thing as another person, but for whatever reason, the rock just hits your tire. [00:13:37] Just that much different. And it's not necessarily oh, you don't know how to choose a line or. You chose a bad tire pressure. It literally just could be a tiny bit of that. Yeah. [00:13:49] Craig Dalton: Yeah. I talked to so many people who like throw away their favorite tire set because it failed them at Unbound. [00:13:55] And I keep thinking to myself, it's because the person in front of you turn that rock over the wrong way and you just happened to hit it. It's not that particular tire is too. [00:14:04] Whitney Allison: I know. I fought it in the most benign sections, which I thought was super obnoxious. I would have rather flooded and the really like pokey technical sections. [00:14:12] But [00:14:13] Craig Dalton: the most recently prior to recording this, you had a big victory at BWR Cedar city, which is amazing. Congratulations on that. [00:14:22] Whitney Allison: Thanks. It was a really nice way to end my first year of gravel racing. [00:14:27] Craig Dalton: I have to say, as a spectator on the couch, it was great. The coverage of the women's event, you felt like you were there, you got a lot of information along the way, and you felt the ebb and flow between you and the other riders and the top four or five, which was great to watch. [00:14:40] I also noted that there was a lot of technicality in it. BWR San Diego, for example, not knowing. An extremely tactical event,…

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    Whitney Allison - BWR Cedar City 2021 Champion Oct 26, 2021
    Show notes

    This week we sit down with Whitney Allison, BWR Cedar City Champion and Co-Founder of the Foco Fondo in Fort Collins, CO. Foco Fondo Whitney Allison Web and Instagram Support the Podcast Join The Ridership Automated Transcription (please excuse the typos): Whitney Allison [00:00:00] Craig Dalton: Hello and welcome to the gravel ride podcast. I'm your host Craig Dalton. This week on the podcast, we have Whitney, Alison who recently won the BWR Cedar city event. I don't know about you guys, but at the beginning of 2020, we are all poised and thinking about gravel racing and looking forward to a whole new crop of athletes coming into the mix. [00:00:25] With the pandemic. Many of those athletes have to sit on the sidelines. Lines as events were few and far between. We're at the Alison was one of those athletes who was poised to make a great start. In 2020, but with sidelined into 2021. Early in the season, she had a win at Co2UT. And started to be on people's radar. [00:00:45] Although. Although she deserved to be on the radar far before that. [00:00:48] With a strong ride to fourth place at Unbound. Around in 2021. I suppose it was no. Surprise that another wind was right around the corner. I originally met Whitney at. The ENVE Grodeo event earlier this year as she's an ENVE sponsored rider and it was great to finally get her on the podcast And Cast We talk about her racing career What brought her to gravel riding and also the Foco Fondo that her and her husband produced in Fort Collins, colorado. [00:01:13] I hope you enjoy the conversation. And with that, let's dive. Right in [00:01:17] Whitney. Welcome to the show. [00:01:19] Whitney Allison: Thanks. Thanks for having me. [00:01:21] Craig Dalton: Yeah. I'm excited to talk to you about your season and gravel and what's next for you, but I always like to start off by learning a little bit about how you came to the sport of cycling and ultimately how you came to riding off-road with gravel. [00:01:33] Whitney Allison: Yeah. I find cycling after high school. [00:01:37] When I got to college, I went the pledget route. I thought I was going to go for. Soccer to being a normal college student got immediately bored. And, but I do lot. And and I ended up going on a group ride with a cycling team and women are worth a lot of points in collegiate racing. So they like really took me under their wing and kind of showed me the ropes and like collegiate cycling is such an incredible way to get into the sport. [00:02:06] You get to find this really unique balance of both seriousness and fun at the same time, I think, as unique to any other area of cycling [00:02:16] Craig Dalton: right now. Yeah. It's so interesting and mean, we talk about teams in cycling, but nothing really compares to the idea of a collegiate cycling team. [00:02:25] Whitney Allison: Yeah. And you have just such a range. [00:02:28] Athletes from maybe athletes who've never participated into a sport to people who've always been in a sport or maybe even always in cycling and you show up and you're S you're unified, whether you're in like the age category or when I was there, they only have A's and B's for women. So it didn't matter like how good you were. [00:02:49] You were just still a very essential and important and welcome part [00:02:53] Craig Dalton: of the. And we'll you riding both road and off-road at that point? [00:02:57] Whitney Allison: Mostly just road. I didn't really have a mountain bike. I think I borrowed somebody's bike a couple of times for some mountain bike races, but mostly just the road. [00:03:08] Craig Dalton: And what part of the country where you located in for college? I went to [00:03:12] Whitney Allison: UT. So it's, I think it was just exclusively Texas for the conference, which is plenty big state. [00:03:19] Craig Dalton: And was it a pretty popular sport? Was it a large program that you were involved in? [00:03:23] Whitney Allison: It was really large. My first couple of years, I want to say that there were almost like 30 women competing in the A's, which was like so rad. [00:03:32] Like I remember my first race and the A's on. I didn't know how to sprint. I didn't know how to get out of the saddle and just like sprinting and saddle and like still ending up on the podium. I had no idea what was going on, which is really funny if you know me too, because I'm not really, I'm a sprinter. [00:03:50] So that's extra funding. [00:03:53] Craig Dalton: Did you immediately start seeing post-collegiate opportunities in the professional cycling ranks? Was that an idea that you had early on in your collegiate? [00:04:01] Whitney Allison: I definitely cat it up pretty quickly. I was also doing a lot of races in Austin at the time. I ended up getting on a development team out of Dallas that I believe it's still loosely associated with DNA pro cycling. [00:04:14] But this is this would have been like 2008, 2008 or 2009. And so I was able to get on this team and it had a lot of the national level, like each 23 women at the time. And so that was something I was on the team, it was a regional writer. But immediately did really well. So I ended up with more opportunities than what was originally planned. [00:04:35] And it was definitely like wild, like looking at some of those women. I had a lot of admiration for the. Just really talented women that, who wouldn't want to be an athlete like that. So I did get a race, do a lot of the national stage race stuff, starting my junior year of college. [00:04:51] And then and my senior year. And then after that, I had to get a full-time job [00:04:56] Craig Dalton: As many professional cyclists have to do unfortunate. [00:05:00] Whitney Allison: Yeah, the student loans don't pay themselves. [00:05:03] Craig Dalton: And then, so what was next for you and the cycling career? [00:05:06] Whitney Allison: So I definitely still had, I still wanted to race professionally and do well there. [00:05:12] I've always wanted to be an athlete. It's just something that's very much a part of my identity. So while working full time at this office job in port Collins, which is where I live now, I somehow convinced my the company owner to one Spencer me, and to let me go race all summer while working remotely, which had never been done. [00:05:33] And it was to their demise because essentially as soon as I paid off my student loans, I like left. And eventually I would get a contract with Colavita in 2013. And stayed with them for, I think, four or five years until joining Superman, Huggins, Roman Superman with my former teammate, Lily Williams, who you've talked to before for the 2018 and 2019 season. [00:06:02] Craig Dalton: And I've heard everything I've heard about that program as it was such a tight knit group of women and everybody had each other's backs, it sounded like a great experience. Those two years, [00:06:12] Whitney Allison: it really was. You usually get some of that. I feel like on teams, but it's very rare that you could get it across such a high percentage of the writers. [00:06:23] So it really was like a special time. We still have a WhatsApp text thread that still gets used. Most of us are all still in touch, which is really. [00:06:31] Craig Dalton: Was 2019 a planned retirement from the road scene or did something happen? I know the team obviously stopped existing, I think at that point. [00:06:40] But what was that your trajectory or your expectation prior to that? [00:06:44] Whitney Allison: My trajectory part of, if we pedal back a little bit in August of 2018, I was hit by a driver with an Airstream a couple of days before Colorado. In Colorado. Classic is like a race I've always done really well at. I broke a bunch of bones, had PTSD, went through all sorts of therapy for that. [00:07:03] And, I was really fortunate to be on a team that was really supportive. And so they're like, of course you have a contract for next year and let us know what you need, let us know how to support you. But it also meant like I couldn't be on social media and I'm focused on coming back. A good mind as best physical ability as possible while still healing from injuries that will have for their spirit life. [00:07:26] And managing that's like really hard. And I was really proud to come back for the 2019 season, but it was really hard for me to put together performances that were. I was as good as I was having in 2018. I did finally in 2019 with the last race of the season, I did get on the podium at Colorado classic couple of days after the one-year anniversary of my crash. [00:07:53] And that was like really powerful, but unfortunately from a professional road standpoint, it wasn't enough to find a similar contract than it. So it was a sad reluctant retirement. And so I thought what about the Scrabble thing? It was something that had always interested me, but I really wanted to ride that professional growth wave wall. [00:08:16] It was there. Just because those are really special times. Yeah. The green teres and Europe, and do a lot of these like iconic spring classics and things like that are just there once in a lifetime opportunities. So 2021 is going to be my big you're getting into gravel and I'm still off of social media because I'm still in litigation. [00:08:36] And then the endemic hit. So that was like really isolate. Cause you're like, oh, I I could be a really good gravel racer, but nobody has any idea. [00:08:46] Craig Dalton: Yeah. I feel like at the beginning of 2020, which there was all this, we knew a bunch of new events were happening. We knew obviously there was other professional athletes, both men and women coming into the scene, but none of that happened and we had no idea. [00:09:00] So when 2021, when racing actually happened, For me, like watching the women's scene. I just saw all these names that I hadn't heard of before. And obviously when you do a little research, that these women didn't come out of nowhere. They were incredibly talented for a number of years, but I feel like you, they were ready in 2020, but they just didn't get an opportunity to expose their skillset, which is making 20, 21 very exciting as a fan of women's gravel racing. [00:09:27] Whitney Allison: Yeah, totally. I was entirely under the radar. Just waiting out the pandemic. It did help a bit. Like I was able to finally settle my case and not have to go to trial, which was really, it was a huge relief in a lot of ways. Cause it, I also unfortunately with how our modern world works, you really have to be online. [00:09:49] And without being able to be online and represent myself as an athlete, it was a. It was a pretty large hit and these other ways that you don't necessarily think of. So I was literally a secret for several years. So yeah, in 2021 rolls around, [00:10:06] Craig Dalton: did you feel like in 2020 that you had the kind of gravel skillset, the technical skillset to be successful or was 2020 a good opportunity to just spend more time on the dirt and really get those skills underneath? [00:10:19] Whitney Allison: It was definitely helpful. Cause like that was the only thing that there was to do because everything else was so depressing. It was just like spend a lot of time in the mountains. Yeah, we have lots of incredible writing super close to us. So then that is definitely a gift of 2020. [00:10:34] Craig Dalton: Absolutely. And so for 2021, did you have your heart set on a certain series of races that you wanted to tackle throughout? [00:10:41] Whitney Allison: I knew that given my circumstances that I would need to hit up a lot of the quote, unquote like most prestigious or most followed events in order to get my foot in the door and establish myself. [00:10:59] I. I was curious about Unbound. I thought that there was a chance that I could do pretty well there. Just based on the type of road rider I was, which is just like all power all day, but I've always been curious, like how long does that last, if you actually like try turns out, that 12 hours? [00:11:22] Yes. I kicked off the season. One of my early season races was Cotuit, which I wanted, which was in Fruita. And it's funny because I was under the radar for so long. Remember some of the feedback I was hearing was is she even fast? Did she win by a fluke in feedback like that? [00:11:42] Which was funny [00:11:44] Craig Dalton: That it, that is the booze social media moment when you just get trolls like that coming out. [00:11:51] Whitney Allison: Yeah. And it's it's whatever I don't really care that somebody off the couch has to say in regards to something like that, but it's still pretty funny. Like I've been here the whole time. It's just. [00:12:03] You didn't know that [00:12:05] Craig Dalton: exactly. Hopefully, and I think this is going to be true after 2021. There's not going to be many people who follow this sport who don't know your name. We'll see. So you followed that up with a fourth place at Unbound unbounded, a 200 mile event, which is pretty spectacular. [00:12:21] Whitney Allison: Yeah. [00:12:22] And that was like, I honestly thought I was somewhere in the top 10 when I finished, because I had 300. And 47 minutes of stoppage of crash with the front flat. I use like the neutral support paid service for aid stuff. Cause we didn't have a aide support person and the person ripped my candle back apart. [00:12:46] So I didn't have my Camelback for the race after the 50 mile mark. So I rode with literal plastic water bottles in my pockets for the rest of the 200. [00:12:56] Craig Dalton: Yeah, I think it's actually a good lesson for a lot of racers that like shit happens and you just gotta roll with it along the way. And so many you can be in first place and go to 10th place and vice versa with just the, the whatever's going to happen on the course. [00:13:15] Whitney Allison: Yeah. And I think like success in these events, it's not necessarily. Okay. Do you experience bad luck? It's more do you have an absence of bad luck versus having good luck? Like it, it doesn't matter. Like you could ride over the same thing as another person, but for whatever reason, the rock just hits your tire. [00:13:37] Just that much different. And it's not necessarily oh, you don't know how to choose a line or. You chose a bad tire pressure. It literally just could be a tiny bit of that. Yeah. [00:13:49] Craig Dalton: Yeah. I talked to so many people who like throw away their favorite tire set because it failed them at Unbound. [00:13:55] And I keep thinking to myself, it's because the person in front of you turn that rock over the wrong way and you just happened to hit it. It's not that particular tire is too. [00:14:04] Whitney Allison: I know. I fought it in the most benign sections, which I thought was super obnoxious. I would have rather flooded and the really like pokey technical sections. [00:14:12] But [00:14:13] Craig Dalton: the most recently prior to recording this, you had a big victory at BWR Cedar city, which is amazing. Congratulations on that. [00:14:22] Whitney Allison: Thanks. It was a really nice way to end my first year of gravel racing. [00:14:27] Craig Dalton: I have to say, as a spectator on the couch, it was great. The coverage of the women's event, you felt like you were there, you got a lot of information along the way, and you felt the ebb and flow between you and the other riders and the top four or five, which was great to watch. [00:14:40] I also noted that there was a lot of technicality in it. BWR San Diego, for example, not knowing. An extremely tactical event,…

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    In the Dirt: Question and Answer Part 2 Oct 19, 2021
    Show notes

    Part two of our first Q and A episode. Randall and Craig tackle questions submitted via The Ridership community. Support the Podcast Join The Ridership Episode Sponsor: Athletic Greens Automated Transcription (please excuse the typos): 00:00:00] Craig Dalton: Hello and welcome to in the dirt from the gravel ride podcast. I'm your host. Craig dalton i'll be joined shortly by my co-host randall jacobs. [00:00:12] Today's episode is part two of our Q and a episode series. Go back in your feed, a couple episodes to find part one. You can certainly jump right into this episode as we're going question by question. And they don't necessarily. Have relation to one another but if you're interested in part one either after the fact or before you listened to this episode go ahead and jump back and listen to that episode. [00:00:36] Today's episode is brought to you by our friends at athletic greens. The health and wellness company that makes comprehensive daily nutrition really really simple. [00:00:44] A G one by athletic greens is a category leading superfood product, bringing comprehensive and convenient daily nutrition to everyone. Keeping up with the research and knowing what to do and taking a bunch of pills and capsules is hard on the stomach and hard to keep up with [00:00:59] To help each one of us be at our best. They simplify the path to better nutrition by giving you the one thing with all the best things. [00:01:06] One tasty scoop of ag. One contained 75 vitamins minerals and whole food sourced ingredients including a multivitamin multimineral probiotic green superfood blend [00:01:17] And more in one convenient daily serving. The special blend of high quality bioavailable ingredients and a scoop of ag. work together to fill the nutritional gaps near diet. Support energy and focus. Aiden got health and digestion and support a healthy immune system. Effectively replacing multiple products or pills in one healthy delicious drink. [00:01:38] I think by now, you've probably heard my personal jam. I like to take athletic greens. First thing in the morning is to get a jumpstart on my hydration. As well as my nutritional needs. And i'm big ride days if i'm feeling super depleted i'll come home and have a second glass so on a saturday or sunday i might double up my servings [00:01:58] If you're open to giving athletics greens, a try, simply visit athletic greens.com/the gravel ride. [00:02:05] Athletic greens has agreed to give a free one year supply of vitamin D and five free travel packs to any gravel ride podcast listener. So be sure to visit athletic greens.com/the gravel ride. To give it a try today. With that said let's jump into part two of the q and a episode with randall [00:02:26] Craig: Next question was on optimizing the adjustment and float intention on SPD pedals. I don't think there's much we can add there cause it's a little bit of trial and error. In my opinion. I don't know about the float. I don't even know if mine has like float adjustment. For me it seems like it's just the tension. So I, how hard or easy it is to get in and out. And that's been something maybe I've amped up over time as I become more confident, but certainly starting them out with them. Fairly easy to disengage is perfectly acceptable if you're not comfortable with Clifton riding. [00:02:57] Randall: Yeah. In terms of tension, I would definitely start with a looser engagement and then tighten it down as you get more confident, Especially when you're first starting out. And what else? Patrick and I actually talked about this in the bike fit episode. Hey recommending shifting the cleats back. So if you're running mountain style shoes, which the gravel bike probably should be if you can run them in the back, the bolts to the back then sliding the cleat. Pretty much all the way to the back. Now if that doesn't feel right, you can always move it forward a little bit, but whereas this new real problem with going too far back there can be issues with going too far forward in terms of biomechanics and so on. And in terms of the float, you want to be in the middle of the float and you never want to be in a position where the you're you're not able to peddle in a natural motion where you're using the cleat positioning to restrict your motion. That is a a good way to end up with an injury. So definitely don't do that. I generally will start with the cleats. In a position where it's restricting my inward motion so that my heel can't hit the crank arm. And then I'll peddle from there and see am I in the middle, middle of the float? Am I in my restricted any part of the pedal stroke? And if not, then that's a good starting point. But to really get this right again it is hard to do this on your own. It's hard to see knee tracking. In souls or thing you want to invest in, in order to help align the full stack from hip to knee through the ankle. And this is where listen to the bike, fit 1 0 1 episode and consider working with a bike fitter. [00:04:30] Craig: I was just going to say the same thing. It's like one of those things like, oh, bike fit, you don't necessarily go to clique adjustment, but so often when I've observed it, cleat adjustment happens in a bike fit. [00:04:41] Randall: And it doesn't happen first, right? Everything else has to be right first. So if your saddle's too low and your arches are collapsing and things like that, you're already starting with things out of alignment and are going to have some trouble, but at least the advice that, that I just gave will prevent the worst issues. But again, go get a bike fit. [00:05:01] Craig: Yep. [00:05:02] The next [00:05:02] question. Yeah, The next question. [00:05:05] was about what's the best technique for using a dropper post? How does this help with the physics of the ride? [00:05:14] Randall: I'll let you go first. I certainly have an opinion on this one. [00:05:17] Craig: This is a dangerous one for us. The listener, the avid listener knows we can go into a deep dropper post where I'm whole, but let's try to offer some quick advice. One of the things I like to remind people about with respect to drop her posts is that it's not just a, all the way up or all the way down product. You've got the full spectrum of range, which means you should use it frequently. Obviously when you're in heavy tactical descents with steep, dicentric, you're going to slam it. [00:05:45] But I quite frequently lower it just a centimeter to just give myself a little bit more room on terrain. Maybe it's a road descent or something that I'm super confident on, but it gives me a little bit more margin for error. And as I'm feeling maybe more nervous about the speed. I'll go down even further just to give myself again a bigger range of just a bigger margin of error. So practice, and no, there's no right or wrong, use it frequently and you'll figure out what feels best for you. [00:06:15] Randall: You've seen my technique with the dropper. I'm a bit more extreme. So for me, I use the dropper all the time. I have it down all the way on a high-speed road descent, and I use it to allow me to, move my mass around on the bike in a way where, if I want the front end to be more planted, I can put more mass on the bars, but then I can shift my weight down and back over the rear axle to lighten up the front end for say, traversing, really rough terrain. Provides that distance between the bike and the body where your arms and legs can act as suspension. Your front wheel is rolling in sailing. Your rear is doing more of your speed control. And in this way, it really radically. Improves the capability of the bike, not just off-road, but I would argue on road as well. I descend much faster because I know I can grab a handful of both brakes and not be pitching over the handlebars. So for me, even on the road, I'm dropping it all the way in a lot of situations. [00:07:08] Just because I like to go that much faster and it gives me that margin of safety. [00:07:12] Craig: All makes sense. Next off, we're going to an area work. Gosh, Randall I almost think we need an entirely new category in the ridership forum just about tires. What do you think? [00:07:25] Randall: We've been asked for this for a while. By the time this episode airs, if we don't have a channel in there, somebody yell at us in the forum, we'll get that up. [00:07:35] Craig: The first question comes again from Tom boss, from orange county unicorn tires, lightweight, puncture resistance, fast rolling with lots of grip. What comes closest for you? [00:07:45] Randall: I'm not getting in the weeds on this one. I defer to the hive-mind and the ridership on this. I can tell you what I ride. But I'm gonna make no claims about it being the optimal. [00:07:56] Craig: Yeah, do. What are you writing in these days? [00:07:58] Randall: so currently I'm writing just a WTB Sendero upfront and a venture in the rear. And these aren't especially fancy casings. They're not the most efficient tire. But they're pretty robust and they have great grip and I like the mullet setup. I'm a big fan of going with something NABI or upfront and like a file tread or even a semi slick, depending on your terrain in the back. [00:08:20] And yeah, that's the way that I go. We actually just brought in some maxes, Ramblers and receptors. So we go a rambler small knob front and a receptor in the back. And I like the six 50 by 47 size. There are situations where I wish I could have a little bit more volume, other situations where I wish I had a little bit more efficiency, which tells me that I'm right in the middle of the range for most of the writing that I do. [00:08:40] Craig: Yeah. For me. And first off, full disclosure to everybody, I'm a Panorai sir, brand ambassador. So I want to put that out there. The gravel king S K was a tire that I got on my first proper gravel bike. And I just fell in love with it. Then I left for many years and went on to more of a setup that you had rocking the Sandero up front. [00:09:01] Thinking I was, riding more challenging terrain and could appreciate the knobs, which I did. [00:09:06] But recently I've gone back to the gravel king as Kay. And I do find it to be a wonderful all around tire because I feel super fast on the road and it does everything that I needed to do in most of the situations that I get into. [00:09:21] Randall: Yeah, sounds about right. And then there's always, if you're, if you had a really long ride out to the trail you could always, bring the pressure up a smidge on the way out there and then give it a little at the the Trailhead. [00:09:34] Craig: Yeah. [00:09:34] And again, it obviously comes down to where you are and one thing I'll just note really quickly, and we've talked about it before is Riding fully select tires at a fat with has been remarkable to me how performance they can be. Off-road you think you need knobs, then all of a sudden you realize where you do need them, but actually if you change your riding style a little bit if you've got a fat rubber tire on there, you can go and do a lot of things. [00:09:59] Randall: Yeah, the dropper helps a lot with that. In terms of just being able to be more nuanced with your body English as you going over stuff. But yeah, I run 700 by 30 tubeless tires and I'll go out on hard road drives and then I'll pass it on to see a trail and be like, oh, what's over there, I must find out now and then to see. Go and do a little bit of adventuring. And you gotta pick, you gotta pick your lines. You gotta be careful not to hit anything, square, a square edge. That's gonna, bang up against your rim. But if you're if your pressure is high enough and you're gentle enough with your writing, you can do a remarkable amount. Most of the stuff that we've written in Marine together up written on slicks. [00:10:36] At one point. Yeah. [00:10:38] not saying it's a good idea, but it's doable. [00:10:41] Craig: True. And you enjoyed other parts of the ride and leaned into other parts of the ride, presumably more because that's, what the bike was oriented around on that particular day. And maybe you needed to nurse your way down Blazedale Ridge or something, but you got through it. [00:10:55] Randall: Yeah, and it's definitely more of an uphill thing than a downhill thing. [00:11:00] Craig: Yeah. [00:11:00] Randall: go uphill on dirt and then downhill on, on road, but okay. The, we went on a proper tangent there. [00:11:07] Craig: Yeah, sorry. next? [00:11:08] one. Next question is from Josh, from east Texas. It's around suppleness. Suppleness in tires is desired by riders. So how do I choose a simple tire without having to buy it and write it with no published measure of scale of suppleness on a given tire from the manufacturer we are left with only this tire field strop sample is TPI and indication. [00:11:30] Why don't manufacturers provide consumers with this information? [00:11:33] Randall: So I'm going to volunteer Ben Z and Marcus G in the forum as to people who seem to have written. Every tire I've ever heard of. And some that I haven't. And there are others in there that have as well. But yeah, I think this is a matter of finding out what other people like and kindly asking their opinion and experiences with it. [00:11:52] Craig: Exactly. I think that's a good recommendation. [00:11:55] Next question is from Tom Henkel and it's around tire pressure. He acknowledges that he tends to ride harder pressures than a lot of people seem to recommend, but he's also dented REMS and had to wrangle the, straighten them out enough to complete a ride. So he's nervous about bottoming out. How do you know how low is too low? Given the weight of the rider and width of the tire? Also, how does this vary by terrain type? [00:12:17] Randall: The indication of how low is too low is really. He's denting his rims. And pinch flatting as well you can have two riders of the same weight on the same tires at the same pressure on the same terrain, one we'll be a little bit better at picking lines or at shifting weight around. And we'll be able to push the limits a little bit more. But if you're ponderous and steamrolling through things, then you might need to run higher pressures in order not to bang the rims. Now, if you're not already running the highest volume tires that will fit in your frame, start there for sure. And if you are, and you don't want to have to replace your bike, tire inserts, which is something that we haven't really talked about much. And is in its early days in gravel, but it's increasingly popular in mountain bike. And I'll be getting a set of these to try out. Isaac S in the forum loves his and he rides hard. He used to ride his gravel bike like a full-on mountain bike, and even cracked a rim once, and after he put in inserts he never had any trouble and he was actually pushing his pressures even lower. So those would be the recommendations. I have go biggest volume. You can and get some tire inserts. [00:13:25] Craig: Yeah, that makes sense. [00:13:26] It's all trial and error and I am eager as, as well as the listener, I imagined to hear what you think of tire inserts. Cause I do think It's yet another interesting part of the equation that some riders may be able to play around with successfully. [00:13:40] Randall: Yeah, it has the same effect as adding a little bit of suspension. If you can drop the pressure that much lower and have a two tiered suspensi…

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    Sea Otter Round Up Episode Oct 12, 2021
    Show notes

    This week's episode is a quick round up from the 2021 Sea Otter Classic featuring quick conversations with BMC, Specialized, Alchemy Bikes, Kogel, Sage, USWE, Panaracer, CushCore, Scott and T9. Support the Podcast Join The Ridership Automated Transcription (please excuse the typos): Sea Otter Round Up [00:00:00] Craig Dalton: [00:00:09] Hello and welcome to the gravel ride podcast. I'm your host, Craig Dalton. If you're a regular listener, you may have been expecting part two of our fun Q and a episode. Building on last week's part one. I had the opportunity to head down to the sea Otter classic in Monterey, California on Friday. And I was able to pick up a few short interviews that I thought were worth sharing. There's some great imagery and stories coming out from that story to vent that I thought it would be good to share in a timely fashion. [00:00:40] For those of you who aren't familiar with the Seattle classic. It's an event that's been going on for, I believe 31 years in Northern California. It's got a rich history, starting with mountain bike racing and later added almost every discipline you can imagine to its four day weekend calendar. [00:00:59] It's also become quite a large consumer show for the bike industry. So there's booths from hundreds of manufacturers from around the world. [00:01:06] I took the opportunity to catch up with some old friends and do some quick interviews with some gravel companies that I think you might be interested in. This will also serve as the jumping off point for a few longer form interviews i'll do later in the year. [00:01:19] This year is October date was pandemic related. The event normally takes place in April. [00:01:24] So we'll be coming back around on our calendar shortly in 2022. [00:01:28] Of note, the Sea Otter classic was purchased by Lifetime back in August of 2021. So this is the first edition produced by the seawater team owned by Lifetime. [00:01:40] Regardless of what type of cyclist you are. If you don't mind a huge crowd, the Sea Otter classic is a great place to geek out over great parts. Watch some killer racing and enjoy the Monterey bay peninsula. With all that said let's jump right into my 10 interviews throughout the sea Otter classic [00:01:59] Andrew Sjogren (BMC): Yeah, this is Andrew here with BMC USA. And what are we looking at here today? We're looking at our brand new URS LT gravel bike. That's ready for any trail you can throw at it. Yeah. Tell [00:02:11] Craig Dalton: us about some of the features. [00:02:12] The frame's been in market for maybe a year last season, but it's got some significant upgrades that I can just tell by looking [00:02:20] Andrew Sjogren (BMC): at it today. Totally. Yeah. So the new addition at the end of the name there LT for long-term. Comes with our new MTT fork, which is micro travel technology. [00:02:28] Craig Dalton: The, tell us a little bit more about the [00:02:30] Andrew Sjogren (BMC): suspension. So with the MTT on the rear, you have a carbon flex chain stay that allows for 20 mils of rear wheel travel, damned with an elastomer that's at the top allows you to maintain traction while you're on. But the new edition with the pork here is a new partnership with Hi Ride , which is a high-end a there come from the motor sport side of things, and they've made a new damper, which has allowed for 20 mils of oil dam suspension that allows it to not overheat like a spring driven system would be, and still has the capabilities of locking out all in a lightweight package. [00:03:03] That doesn't affect the geometry whatsoever. Now for [00:03:06] Craig Dalton: the uninitiated, when you look at this bike, you may not notice where the suspension is happening. Can you tell us it's not the two telescoping fork legs? Can you tell us how it's happening? [00:03:15] Andrew Sjogren (BMC): Yeah. Happening all essentially in the steer tube. So the entire damper unit is at the base of this. [00:03:20] Makes it so that it's super clean, simple, doesn't disrupt the lines of the bike, but still has a super effective method of getting you a more traction on the trails. Nice. [00:03:29] Craig Dalton: And the bike is made out of what frame material [00:03:32] Andrew Sjogren (BMC): a to full carbon frame, and even the fork itself has carbon lowers. So carbon it's full suspension. [00:03:38] Craig Dalton: Nice. It's a great looking bike, great execution, and I appreciate the time. [00:03:41] Andrew Sjogren (BMC): Awesome. Thank you for having me. [00:03:43] Craig Dalton: Okay. Can I get your name and company name? [00:03:45] Ard Kessels (Kogel): Yeah, I'm art with Kogel bearings. [00:03:48] Craig Dalton: Thanks art. And what are you showing here at Sea Otter? [00:03:50] Ard Kessels (Kogel): We have a line of fully gravel approved oversized gorilla cages. So we build them super stiff so he can take him off. We just introduced a line of custom colored titanium bolts. [00:04:01] So you can get your entire bike matched up. [00:04:04] Craig Dalton: I was just talking to one of your colleagues. Cause one of the things from the outside, when I've looked at these products was the complexity of installing it. Could you describe like what you need to do to your existing rear derailleur to install the. [00:04:16] Ard Kessels (Kogel): The installation of an oversized cage requires you to take your derailleur apart. [00:04:20] So not just remove it from the bike, but completely take it off in pieces. It's, there's no set procedure. So depending on your model of derailleur, some are super easy. Some are definitely recommended to bring to a bike shop, [00:04:33] Craig Dalton: and it's really just removing the existing cage. And depending on how, whether it's SRAM or Shimano, how complicated they make that process, that's really what. [00:04:42] Complicated or not complicated. Is that correct? [00:04:44] Ard Kessels (Kogel): Correct. Yes. And there is no line, one derailleur from a brand might be easy and the same derailleur from or another deter from the same brand might be complicated. And just [00:04:54] Craig Dalton: really quickly, could you tell the listener, what is the advantage of going for one of these bigger polices? [00:05:00] Ard Kessels (Kogel): Absolutely. The idea behind it is to open up the chain. So by using a bigger wheel, the chain doesn't have to articulate as much as it has around a small pulley. Bending a chain takes it takes energy. So by this, you reduce the friction by about one or two Watts. [00:05:16] Craig Dalton: Awesome. Thanks Ard. Thanks. [00:05:19] All right. Can I get your name and company? [00:05:21] Bed Edwards (Specialized): Yeah, sure. My name is Ben Edwards. I work with Specialized and part of the road and gravel team. [00:05:25] Craig Dalton: Nice. Ben, can you tell us about the new crux we're looking at? [00:05:28] Bed Edwards (Specialized): Yeah, we're super stoked to bring the all new Crux to riders. This thing just dropped yesterday and I think people know the crux as a cross bike, right? [00:05:35] This is like a world champion for in cross bike, but the little, the kind of the dirty secret crux all has had is that it was a bad-ass gravel bike. And so the new. While it retains a lot of that performance heritage from the cross side is really embracing that, that gravel identity. But beyond that, we've used our Athos which of any of the writers know the Athos it's a 585 Graham road frame. [00:05:56] We found a way to make these crazy light and incredibly riding road bikes at a carbon. We've now taken those learnings to the crux. So the new crux, the frame set for S works 725. And you're looking at a complete bike at 7.2 kilos, which is almost unheard of on the roadside, with a stock bike. [00:06:16] And that's what we're doing in gravel now. So that's a key thing that makes that bike. The unbelievable ride quality it delivers is that incredible, lightweight, which is pretty unheard of. And gravel beyond that, we've added some incredible capability by making sure it has room for 47 C tires. So you can, Hey, you want to race on the 30 eights. [00:06:34] Awesome. You're going to get into some rough. It's got room for this 40 sevens on their incredible capability. For [00:06:40] Craig Dalton: sure. Nice. I was going to ask you about some of the additional capabilities that have been built in this model versus the older kind of more pure crossbite crux that people had. [00:06:49] Bed Edwards (Specialized): Yeah, for sure. So that, that, that tire clearance is a big one. We know. For awhile there, 40 was thought of as Hey, 40 is the right size for gravel. We know now these bikes are capable of so much more. So we really feel like to unlock the bikes. Potential riders have to be able to say, Hey, maybe I want to put a 47 on it, or with a bike like this 725 grand frame. [00:07:08] It's pretty amazing on the road. If you wanna have another set of wheels and throw a set of 20 eights or thirties on it, you've got an amazing platform that allows you. If you thought [00:07:16] Craig Dalton: about the gravel market on a spectrum from sort of a road plus bike to an adventure bike packing bike, where would you describe this new crux is sitting? [00:07:25] Yeah, [00:07:26] Bed Edwards (Specialized): this thing is it's honestly the perfect compliment to our day. With that Diverge, you've got that incredible suspend, the rider, really compliance without any compromise with that future shock. So that's really what we're looking at. As I say, like adventure explore bike, or like crazy long miles when that comfort's key. [00:07:40] This is really sitting on that performance side of the spectrum, right? When you went that more stripped down, super new. Race day or just real fast gravel riding. That's really what that crux is holding down for us now, while we should also mention this is still what our world cup, cross riders are going to be on. [00:07:55] And we've had writers like Jed next D bar, world cyclocross champion. He'll be racing this bike as his key cross bike. [00:08:01] Craig Dalton: Awesome. Thanks for [00:08:02] Bed Edwards (Specialized): the time. Yeah, no problem. Thanks for taking in. [00:08:04] Craig Dalton: Okay. Can I get your name and [00:08:05] Jason (USWE): company? Yeah, Jason McCune with a USWE sports. Thanks, Jason. What are we looking at here today? Today we've got our line of epic hydration backs. We're looking specifically at the epic eight for those of you that are familiar with our brand our kind of our claim to fame as the hardest. [00:08:19] It's a one buckle harness system. You've got four way adjustability on all four sides and it's got elastic built into it as well. So you can really cinch it down and move around on the bike without the pack, moving on you that's really what people, who are riding mountain bikes and doing all these activities really want to. [00:08:35] Yeah. As I've seen [00:08:35] Craig Dalton: some of the athletes like Amanda nom and ride it, that crossover strapping mechanism is what's most visually noticeable about the pack. And now that I've gotten the overview from you and looking at it more closely, I do see how that the sort of the hip side straps are highly adjustable and tuneable. [00:08:53] Jason (USWE): Yeah. So you can adjust from the sides that go into the yard. That come that way. And then also over the shoulders. So it's really nice. And even when you get it tightened up, up on you, it's got elastic. So when you're moving around on the. Yeah, it allows the freedom of your body to move. [00:09:08] And the packs just stand where it's at. That's the beauty of it. It's not bouncing all over the place. It's just becomes really part of your body. [00:09:15] Craig Dalton: The first pack you showed me, do you still get access to a typical cycling Jersey pocket? [00:09:20] Jason (USWE): So I'm glad you asked me that because yeah, like for, especially for like gravel enthusiasts and stuff like that, the packs are designed, so they sit up high. [00:09:28] So if you're running late, And you still want access to your pockets to get goose or something real quick. Yeah. All that stuff's totally accessible. And that's what makes that's part of the beauty of it. Awesome. Thanks for the time. Yeah, no worries. Thank you. [00:09:41] [00:09:41] Craig Dalton: Okay. Can I get your name and your company? [00:09:43] Bryce (Alchemy): I'm Bryce with Alchemy bicycles. [00:09:45] Craig Dalton: Bryce, what are we looking at here today? [00:09:47] Bryce (Alchemy): This is our all new alchemy rogue. This is the latest addition to our gravel lineup. We still have the Ronin, which is going to be our kind of racier, fast steeper geometry, gravel bike the rogue. [00:09:59] We want it to be more of an adventure offering. This bike is going to have a little bit longer wheel base Clint clearance for bigger tires. We wanted to build it with the SRAM, Ugh, H so that you get a little bit more peace of mind. You don't have to worry about throwing your chain. You don't have to worry about that rear drill. [00:10:16] You're taking knocks so much and a lot slacker geometry. So we've got a 70 degree head tube angle on this thing. So it can really be a lot more capable and stable on that. We also designed it to have a lot more compliance than the Ronan. So you'll notice the scallop seat stay as well as the drops or sorry, the scallop seat tube, as well as the drop seat stays. [00:10:38] That's going to give you a lot better comfort rugged terrain designed it with capability to run a wireless or hydraulic dropper post. Still has a big beefy bottom bracket shell. So when you get out of the saddle, you're going to have that powertrains for that you want. Nice. [00:10:53] Craig Dalton: Can you specify what tire size, the speical at [00:10:56] Bryce (Alchemy): least 700 by 50 C. [00:10:58] You could probably get a little bit bigger on that depending on your wheel and tire combo, [00:11:02] Craig Dalton: plate size there, and talk a little bit about your manufacturing process and where you're doing that. [00:11:06] Bryce (Alchemy): So we manufacture this bike in Denver, Colorado. This is a. Semi mana cock construction. We produce the tubes individually, so like the down tube and head to our one piece the bottom bracket, shell and C tube, as well as the chain stay, yolk are one piece. [00:11:23] And then we wrap those tubes together in an overwrap process to join them. So we also do all of our own painting house. This bike is completely fabricated from the design stage to finishing right in Denver. [00:11:36] Craig Dalton: Amazing. Now this rogue model is, has stock sizes. Your own and model is also available in custom sizes. [00:11:42] Is that. [00:11:43] Bryce (Alchemy): That is correct. So the rogue, we're trying to hit a little bit better price point and make the bike more accessible to people. We are offering a lot more stock sizes than we offer typically on our other bicycles. The rogue is gonna come in an extra small, to an extra large the Ronan is available in sock sizes, but we can do custom geo on. [00:12:03] This [00:12:03] Craig Dalton: rogue we're looking at as a beautiful finish to it. Can you talk about the finish? I think there's something unique about the way it's [00:12:08] Bryce (Alchemy): applied. Yeah, so we have started using cerakote. It's been around for a little while in the bicycle industry, but as far as I know, we're the first people doing it in house as a manufacturer. [00:12:19] Sarah coat is a pret…

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    In the Dirt 24: Part One - Questions and Answers Oct 05, 2021
    Show notes

    This week we tackle our first Q & A episode from The Ridership Community. Randall and Craig tackle your questions in part 1 of 2 fun filled episodes. The Ridership Support the Podcast Book your free Thesis Bike Consult Automated transcription (Please excuses the errors): Episode 24 [00:00:00] Craig Dalton: Hello and welcome to in the dirt from the gravel. The ride podcast. I'm your host, Craig Dalton. And i'll be joined shortly by my co-host rental jacobs In this week's episode, we're tackling our first Q and a episode. [00:00:14] We've mentioned the ridership community on a number of occasions on this podcast. It's a community that's full of vibrant questions all the time. So we thought we'd put out an ask to say, what are the things you want to learn about what should Randall an IB discussing? And we were overwhelmed by. By the number of questions we received. [00:00:34] So much. So in fact that we're going to break this episode down into two parts. So today we'll focus on part one. And in the coming weeks we're released part two. [00:00:44] Before we jump into this week's episode, I'd like to thank this week. Sponsor Thesis bikes. As you know, Randall Jacob's my co-host in these, in the dirt episodes is the founder of Thesis bikes. Which you might not know is it's the bicycle I've been riding for the last let's say year and a half. [00:01:01] Over the course of this podcast, I've had the opportunity to ride many bicycles and I keep coming back to my Thesis. As my number one bike in the garage, it really does deliver on the promise of a bike that can do anything. As many of, you know, I operate with two wheel sets in the garage. So I've got a 700 C wheel set with road tires on, and my go-to six 50 B wheel set for all my off-road adventures. [00:01:26] In the many, many hours of conversation I've had with Randall, I've really come to appreciate how thoughtful he was in designing this bike and everything that goes in the Thesis community. Randall and the team are available for personal consults, which I highly recommend you take advantage of. If you're interested in learning more about the brand and figuring out how to get the right fit for your Thesis bicycle. [00:01:49] In a shocking statement. I can actually express that Thesis has bikes in stock. It's something we haven't been able to say about a lot of bike brands these days during the pandemic. It's October as we're releasing this episode and they have bikes available for November delivery with the SRAM access builds. They also have frame sets available. [00:02:10] So I encourage you to head on over to Thesis.bike, to check out more about the brand, the story. Cory and the product and book one of those free consultations with a member of the Thesis team. With that said, let's dive right into this. Week's. Q and a episode [00:02:25] Craig: Randall, how are you today? [00:02:26] Randall: I am doing well, Craig, how are you my friend? [00:02:30] Craig: I am doing good. I'm particularly excited for this episode because it essentially came entirely from the Ridership community. We're doing our first ever Q&A episode. [00:02:42] Randall: Yeah, people have a lot of trust in us, maybe too much in terms of our knowledge here. So we'll try not to get over our heads in terms of uh what we claim to know, but a lot of good questions here and hopefully we can answer most of them. [00:02:54] Craig: Yeah, I think that's been one of the cool things about the ridership is I see these questions going on all the time and I quite regularly. See them answered by people Smarter than you and I in a specific area of the sport. They have particular knowledge about a specific region. So it's really cool to see those happening in real time, every day for the members of that community. [00:03:17] Randall: Yeah, everything from fit related questions where we have some experts in there. Professional fitters like Patrick Carey, who I just did the episode with just before this one, I was in there answering questions, but then also if you've got a question about tires, nobody's going to have ridden all of them, but somehow every one has been written by someone in the forum there. And it's one of our most popular topics. [00:03:38] Craig: Yeah. And I've seen some really detailed, help transpire between members as well, just like random disc bait break problems or compatibility problems. And I'm always shocked when someone raises their hand digitally and start to answering a question saying, no, I experienced that exact same weird problem in combination of things. [00:03:57] Randall: Yeah, it really fits into the spirit of The Ridership in which embodied in that word was this idea of fellowship, like writers, helping writers. So it's been super cool to see that community develop organically. And so thank you all members who are listening, and to those who aren't in there yet, we hope you'll join us. [00:04:15] Craig: Yeah. just head over to www.theridership.com and you can get right in and start interacting as much, or as little as you want. I think the uniqueness of the platform is it is designed inherently to be asynchronous. So you can put a question in there give it a little time to marinate and a couple of days later Get lots of answers. [00:04:35] This is pretty cool. [00:04:36] Randall: And in addition to that, there's also rides being coordinated. So myself and another writer here in the new England area or leading a ride. And we have about 10 or 15 people who chimed in wanting to join. And we've seen quite a bit of that in the bay area as well. So that's another use case for this in addition to sharing routes and general bicycle nerdery. [00:04:54] Craig: Yeah, it's super cool. [00:04:55] So this episode, we're clearly going to jump around a bunch. We've tried to organize the questions, so there's, there's some pairing around them, but these are questions that all came in from subset of individuals. So They are what they are and we wanted to jump on them. So with that, let's let's dive right in. Okay. [00:05:12] Randall: All right, let's do it. [00:05:14] Craig: Cool. So the first question comes from Keith P E. And he says, every time I go out for a gravel ride, I think why is this roadie where I'm like Rhonda trails when there's no podium to win or anybody watching. What is this obsession with wearing skin tight clothing in a sport that resides in the dirt. [00:05:31] Randall: I don't know about you, but I'm just showing off. [00:05:34] Craig: Your physique. [00:05:35] Randall: My, my Adonis like physique, sure. It's just more comfortable for me. And I like to go pretty hard and I'm sweating a lot. And if I had baggier gear on, I would tend to have, potential issues with chafing and the like so for intensity I definitely find that the Lycra is a lot more comfortable. [00:05:54] Craig: Yeah, I'm sorta with you. Like I do I desire to be that guy in baggy shorts and a t-shirt, but every time it comes down to it, I'm grabbing the Lycra. I think for me, there's a couple of performance things, definitely on the lower body. I appreciate the Lycra just cause I don't get any binding and less potential for chafing. So I'm like, I'm all about a big short for riding, unless it's a super, super casual outing for me. [00:06:21] And then up top. I think it comes down to, I do having the pockets in the Jersey. So that sort of makes me tend towards wearing a Jersey, even if it's just solely to carry my phone in my pocket. [00:06:34] Randall: And if you really want to be pro show up to an elite race and like a led Zeppelin t-shirt and some cutoff jorts, and hairy legs and just rip everyone's legs off that would be super impressive. But for the rest of us, [00:06:45] If you ha, if you have those sorts of legs, [00:06:47] Yeah, it would be very impressed. Send pictures in to the ridership. If you actually do that . [00:06:50] Craig: Yeah. So you'll see me. You'll see me. Rock a t-shirt you. As a performance t-shirt instead of a cycling Jersey on occasion. And I just jam stuff into bags, but yeah, nine times out of 10, unfortunately I'm that Lycra. Reclad. Gravel cyclists. [00:07:06] Randall: MAMIL, I think right. [00:07:08] Middle aged man in Lycra. [00:07:11] I'm right behind in the age category. [00:07:13] Craig: Second question comes from Tom Schiele. And forgive me if I mispronounced your last name, he'd love to get our insights into winter riding, especially tips for those of us in new England who go out on cold dark mornings. [00:07:29] I'm going to, I'm going to go out on a limb here and Randall and say, it's probably not the guy. [00:07:32] from California that should be offering this advice. [00:07:34] Randall: Let's have you go first for that reason. [00:07:38] Craig: Look. I mean you, new Englanders will throw hay bales at me and make fun of me, but I do find it cold here. And it's all about layers. [00:07:48] Randall: Okay. [00:07:48] Carry [00:07:48] Craig: all about layers. [00:07:49] Actually, in fact, I just got some great gear from gore and I was Scratching my head because it's really designed for way cooler Temperatures. [00:07:58] than I have available to me. So a fleece lined tight is something that's just outside of the weather that I'm going to experience as much as I'll complain about it being cold. But I do appreciate a thermal Jersey for the Dawn patrol rides and things like that. [00:08:12] But for me, it's always come down to layering. And as someone who's Been around. [00:08:16] the sport for a while, what I really do like about my wardrobe today is I think I have a really good understanding about what to layer on for what temperature And having been in the sport long enough. I've just acquired a lot of clothing along the way. So I even go down to having. [00:08:32] Like a thicker vest. Than just a standard thin, vast, and they're very nuanced and it's only because of, I had decades worth of clothing kicking around that I've really started to understand and embrace how each garment is for a particular degree temperature. And the layers will get me to a certain point. [00:08:51] Randall: Yeah. I'm a hundred percent with you on layers. I like to go like Jersey and then maybe a base layer or older Jersey underneath add to that thermal sleeves a vest that has a wind breaking layer on the front. A balaklava. Is also a great thing to have when the weather gets a bit colder, one to keep your head warm and your ears warm, and to keep the wind off your face, but then also you can breathe through it. So you're preheating the air and when it gets bitingly cold, which I don't know, you may not have experienced this, but I've definitely written around the Boston area and five degree temperatures and you got, ice crystals forming on the front of it, but at least you're getting a little bit of that preheating first. [00:09:29] Definitely wants some wind breaking booties. Wind breaking layers on the front of the body. Generally when it gets really cold. If you must, you could do like heat packs on the backs of your hands. So over your arteries, delivering blood. If you're in real extreme conditions, [00:09:44] Let's see, Tom also mentioned riding cold dark mornings, which means low pressures for grip. And then also lots of lots of lights, lots of reflectivity. You definitely don't want to be caught out and that's a good general rule, but especially riding in dark conditions when people might be tired. [00:10:00] And then what else? [00:10:02] Craig: Going to add the other big thing that I really enjoy is a thermal cap with the little flaps over the years, I find that really just, keeps the heat in there. [00:10:11] Randall: Yeah, that's a nice intermediate solution before it's too cold to expose your face. [00:10:16] Going that route. Other things pit stops with hand dryers. So I knew where all the Dunkin donuts were along my routes. I could just go in there on a really cool day and just dry off and heat up. People around here sometimes like in embrocation, gives you like a Burnie tingling sensation on the skin. [00:10:30] Vaseline. It's actually a big one. It helps with insulation on exposed skin and helps it from getting dried and raw and so on. So I'll put Vaseline on my face and that actually makes a big difference in keeping me warm. And I don't find that it has any negative effects on my skin, my pores and things like that. [00:10:48] I'm trying to think. Did we miss anything? Oh, tape the vent holes on your shoes. That's a big one. 'cause even with booties sometimes the holes will still, oftentimes the holes will still be exposed. And so close that up. Otherwise you just going to get air flow into the shoe and you'll know exactly where it's coming from. Once you get on the road. [00:11:08] Craig: Yeah. And I remember. When all hell broke loose. I would even stick my foot in a plastic bag and then put it in the shoe. [00:11:16] To get a little extra warmth. I don't necessarily recommend that. And I do know and aware em, aware that, you can get like Russ socks now in different kind of obviously wool is a great material to have underneath your shoe. It, yeah. [00:11:28] Randall: I love wool and I'll take like old wool sweaters and stuff and cut the sleeves and then put it in the dryer to shrink. So it's tight against the body and that'll be a base layer. Cause it's just great for loft and for wicking. So if you're trying to be cheap, that can be a way to go about it. [00:11:43] Craig: I'm Now like off in my head, imagining sleeveless Randall in a tight fitting wool sweater. And it's more reading burning man then cycling performance. [00:11:54] Randall: with the jorts, I might show up at a race near you. [00:11:56] Craig: Our next couple of questions are from Alan Collins and the first one's around everyday carry. What do you always carry with you on every ride tools, parts, spares, pumps, hydration, snacks, gels, et cetera. Are you traveling light or packing an RV? [00:12:14] Randall: So I'm now back in new England, so I'm often relatively near civilization, so I'm not as comprehensive as I would be say, like riding in Marine where I might be a good five, six mile walk over some mountains to get to anywhere. But critical things. I bring plugs like tire plugs. In my case, dynaplugs bacon strips, same deal. [00:12:36] Spare tube. A tool that has all the critical things I need. If you're one of our riders, make sure you got a six mil on your tool because that's what you need for your through axles. What else? If there's any risk whatsoever. Me getting caught out in the dark. I'll have lights front and rear might as well. [00:12:54] I'm trying to think of anything else that I always bring along. That's the key stuff. How about you? [00:12:59] Craig: Yeah, I'm a mid-weight packer. Like I've really embraced that quarter frame bag. So I just tend to be ready for most eventualities that I expect. And obviously I gear up depending on the amount of hours I plan on being out. I tend to bring one nutritional item per hour that I'm going to be out. Obviously if I'm going out for an hour, I tend to be forgetful about hydration and nutrition. I don't really think too much about it. [00:13:26] But I do think about it in terms of the number of hours I'm going to be out and then building Certainly my nutrition and hydration on top of tha…

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    Kav Helmets - Custom 3D printed helmets with Whitman Kwok Sep 28, 2021
    Show notes

    This week we sit down with Kav Helmet CEO and Founder, Whitman Kwok to discuss the companies' innovative 3D printing technology that can produce a custom fitted helmet for every rider. Kav Helmets The Ridership Support the Podcast Automated Transcription (please excuse the typos) Kav Helmets [00:00:00] Craig Dalton: Hello and welcome to the gravel ride. Podcast. I'm your host, Craig Dalton. [00:00:08] This week on the show, we've got Whitman Kwok the founder and CEO of Kav Helmets. [00:00:14] Kav Helmets may yet to be a household name in the cycling industry. But you'll learn. The team has a rich history in the cycling helmet market. They're innovative approach to manufacturing. Using 3d printing technology is a novel approach. And creates a uniquely custom helmet for each rider. I'll let Whitman get into the ins and the outs of the technology but i'm a big fan of the approach as additive technology just opens up a lot of possibilities for where material is laid in the helmet. [00:00:45] If you're planning on attending this year, sea Otter classic in Monterrey, California, the Kav team will be showing off their 3d printing technology. There they'll even be 3d printing, some key chains, which I think will showcase how the process actually works. If you're not in the area or not attending seawater, be sure to visit the Kav website as they're opening up orders for all. [00:01:08] Before we jump into this week show, I need. To thank our sponsor. Today's program is brought to you by Athletic Greens, the health and wellness. Wellness company that makes comprehensive daily nutrition really, really. Simple. [00:01:19] With so many stressors in life, it's difficult to maintain effective nutritional habits and give our bodies the nutrients it needs to survive. Our busy schedules, poor sleep, massive gravel rides. The environment works dress or simply. Not eating enough of the right foods can leave us deficient and key nutritional. [00:01:38] Areas. by athletic greens is a category leading superfood product. That brings comprehensive and convenient daily nutrition to everybody. Keeping up with the research, knowing what to do and taking a bunch of pills and capsules is hard on the stomach and hard to keep up with. To help each of us be at our best. They simply provide a better path to nutrition by giving you the one thing. With all the best things. [00:02:03] One tasty scoop of AG1 contained 75 vitamins minerals, and whole food sourced ingredients, including a multivitamin multimineral probiotic, green superfood blend [00:02:13] And more in one convenient daily serving. [00:02:16] The special blend of high quality bioavailable ingredients in a scoop of AIG one work together to fill the nutritional gaps in your diet, support, energy, and focus aid with gut health and digestion and support a healthy immune system. Effectively replacing multiple products or pills with one healthy delicious Drink . [00:02:36] As many of you know, I've been an athletic greens subscriber for about the last five years. So I truly appreciate their support of the podcast. If you're interested in learning more, just visit athletic greens.com/the gravel ride. The team at athletic greens, we'll throw in a free one-year supply of vitamin D and five free travel packs with your purchase. [00:02:59] Again, simply visit athleticgreens.com/thegravelride to take control of your health and give AG1 a try today. [00:03:08] With that said let's dive right into my conversation with Whitman from Kav Helmets. It's. [00:03:13] Whitman. Welcome to the show. [00:03:16] Whitman Kwok: That is correct. Really looking forward to our discussion. Yeah, me too. [00:03:20] Craig Dalton: The manufacturing and additive tech geek in me is really looking forward to this conversation. [00:03:26] Definitely want to learn how calf helmets came about and what your journey is to creating this bike helmets. And more importantly, what the benefits are for riders in the gravel scene. So let's jump in and let's just in your own words, let us know about cab helmets, how it started and what the vision is. [00:03:46] Whitman Kwok: Yeah, absolutely. There's a lot of impact, even in that simple question. I think fundamentally the vision was. Oh, providing a concierge service to athletes. I had always, as a competitor cycles in college, tweak my gear, adjusted everything from crank buy-ins to handlebar lengths and all, everything to get the most performance and also just make the bike an extension of myself. [00:04:10] And I don't think anything has changed in the intervening years. And I think in all the sports that we talked to, whether it's a hockey players or something the gears are really important part of the athletic experience. And so for cab it was obvious to us that the helmet market is really large. [00:04:26] It is a largely at this point a undifferentiated product where there isn't a dominant player per se. There isn't a apple or a Tesla or a Peloton where people just all grab it gravitate to. And as long as you. For the last 30 years, there's been a lot of tweaking and incremental improvements on injection molded foam helmets. [00:04:46] And I think what we bring with Kav is this generational leap like Tesla's done with electric cars to a whole new mode of thinking around making a helmet or anything for that matter. That's completely custom to the individual. And the moment you do that there's a whole bunch of benefits that we're able to realize. [00:05:06] There's the obvious ones around comfort that there's 8 billion sizes that we can provide one for every man, woman, child on the planet. And but there's a huge number of performance. Benefits and protection is always top of mind when you're talking about helmets. And the fact that we can tailor the protective characteristics to. [00:05:23] And individual and how they ride, how fast they're riding the weight profiles, things like that gives a massive potential improvement in protection over just a standard kind of one or two or three size fits all. I'm fortunate. I have a number of co-founders and colleagues that we found in the company together. [00:05:42] And I think we all had different experiences, but the same. Echo and voice in the back of our head, that there's just a lot better way to do this. And so I'll do a quick shout out to there. And obviously there's a lot of different areas that we can talk through. But Mike Lowe is our VP of products and he was the VP of events, concepts at Euro bell. [00:06:03] He also worked closely with Ridell. He did early work with Lance Armstrong's time trial helmet, and worked on all the iconic bike helmets. Since. He's been just fantastic to learn from that whole industry or the homicide. There's a lot of honest, non-obvious quirks and things in the industry. [00:06:20] And it's a very close knit industry. And so there's a lot of great people that we've been able to meet and work through Mike. And on the technology side, they started migrating. Amazing technologists from Google small company called Google and relatively early employee there, I'm working on search quality and YouTube, one of their, two of their smaller products. [00:06:39] And and he brings this immense knowledge, not just in software, which ironically is where 78% of our IP is. But also a really great understanding of hardware and kind of physics and mechanical engineering. You really have to. That kind of polymath approach in order to build something like a superior helmet. [00:06:58] So anyway, it's a long-winded way of talking. It's on the people we work with our early vision and some of the high level benefits and can let you pick and choose your own adventure from there. [00:07:08] Craig Dalton: Yeah. So I alluded a little bit to it in the intro, but just so we don't lose this concept right off the jump, because it's easy for the listener to think about this as a traditional helmet, but let's talk about how it's manufactured because you didn't specifically mention that. [00:07:24] And I think it's one of the most fascinating parts of the process. [00:07:28] Whitman Kwok: Yeah, no I do that a lot because I think we always think of it from the N and consumer's perspective. What did they get? And how we get there is really intriguing from an engineering perspective. And I often gloss over it. [00:07:42] Yeah, we we blended a bunch of material sciences additive manufacturing and software in order to develop the helmets. And I'll speak a little bit more of the additive manufacturing sites since you asked about it, but yes, each of these helmets is 3d printed here in Redwood city, California for the individual. [00:08:00] And so everything is made to order that has huge implications to everything. Not just manufacturing, but the whole customer. That's alluding to and being kind of concert servers are giving people exactly what they want. And so when an order comes in, we're taking measurements and we dynamically generate actually all the engineering terms, all the CAD files, the dimensions and everything for the helmet. [00:08:25] And it's not the case that we're just taking three or six or even 12, like shells and then like carving something. We are literally building the helmet from the inside out. So I think, whereas the current concept, the off the shelf is you get two or three sizes and you've got the shell that defines the helmet. [00:08:46] And then you got to force fit your head into that use foam padding, or several lock things to just sense your head loosely in this kind of bucket idea. And for us you're actually taking the meds. We dynamic create that we define all the offsets that we need to generate and ensure the level of protection than we want for that rider. [00:09:06] Then we send it through our own what we call printer management software. So we actually have a farm of these 3d printers. So you can imagine it being like analogous to like a data center except of having all these servers slotted in these racks. We've got 3d printers slotted in the. And it basically just creates like all the different parts that you need for your helmet. [00:09:26] And we have a QA process throughout to measure and make sure what we're printing is exactly meets specs of what we want. And we have to build a lot of that in dynamically because each helmet is custom. And then we do a kind of final finishing process that's done by hand. So you get the best of both worlds of this precision 3d printed. [00:09:47] But hand-finished and lovingly made here in our shop in Redwood city. [00:09:51] Craig Dalton: Yeah. I imagine for some of the listeners, this might be a mind-bending discussion because a lot of people haven't seen 3d printing inaction, no one way to visualize it. And this may or may not be a great way, but since I have a seven-year-old in the house if you imagine sort of building from Legos and you're building from the ground, And you keep building successfully on top of each other. [00:10:15] It's in my mind how 3d printing works, right? You've got the material that's in this printer and it's being laid out layer by layer. And this is based on the very customized measurements that you've received from the future owner of the helmet. So again, the, in the interest of helping to visualize it's being built from the ground up around your individual, Once you've placed the order. [00:10:43] Whitman Kwok: That's right. And the analogy I like to use is making a soft cone right. Or going into the yogurt machine. And yeah we basically, it can imagine we're taking our proprietary polymers and it's coming out of this very high-tech yogurt machine. But rather than having, it dumped like eight ounces of yogurt into the cup. [00:11:00] We're a precision layering, at a fraction of a millimeter at a time. These very intricate engineered what we call energy management system and your helmet. And and so it's a little bit like growing the part on this bed. And we're, as you say, we're creating a slice at a time. [00:11:17] That's a fraction of a millimeter and kind of building up. And each layer is being laid down by this very sophisticated yogurt machine. And and at the end of the. Yeah, exactly. You have a helmet. That's not on a custom fit, but it's not solid. Like it's not like an injection molded part where you're just dumping a bunch of plastic into a mold or or foam where you're like exploding blowing up the foam into a mold we're actually creating like this really complicated, polygon and hex structure within the helmet which is designed to Trumbull really efficiently to provide good. [00:11:51] But also takes up the fraction of the weight because most of your helmet actually turns out to be air in this case. [00:11:56] Craig Dalton: Yeah. That's an interesting, you hear the phrase fits like a glove, but this is even the next level of that it's like fits like a glove that has been specifically designed for your personal hand. [00:12:08] Whitman Kwok: That's why it would be like an iron man glove, right? Like it's one thing to have a fabric that you stretched over your head. It's quite an honor to have this in case structure that still has the same sensation of a security right. And being fit like glove, but it's hard right on the outside to protect you. [00:12:25] And so it is a next level sensation. [00:12:28] Craig Dalton: So when I think about, the helmet I have in the garage, I think about, it's got some internal kind of frame and a dial that helps it fit. I understand from your earlier discussion, I can throw that piece out because I don't need that piece anymore because the helmet is built to order to the shape of my personal head. [00:12:46] I then, if I think about the exterior of the helmet, I often have a hard plastic layer and then not knowing a ton about the interior, but it sounds like we're injecting molding. We're injecting foam. Into a Kavity that kind of creates that if you, if that's accurate and feel free to fill in any details there, but why don't you juxtapose what the outside and the inside of the cab helmet effectively, how that differs and how it changes? [00:13:15] Whitman Kwok: Yeah. I think the cycling analogy would be it's almost like a monocoque structure, right? If you have a psych, a carbon fiber cycling frame, where for all practical purposes, Like all the tubing and lugs and everything joined in a way where it just behaves as one monolithic well-balanced, machine in terms of and in the traditional process, like you said that in the higher end helmets, you have a, typically like a polycarbonate shell, that's a couple of mils thick and they injection mold, some EPS foam into that have some type of density or multiple densities and The nice thing. [00:13:49] And so each of those things play a part and they're trying to compensate for different deficiencies in the foam. And so is not it sticks to cement, right? And so you don't want that because it's going to cause bad rotational energies on impact. It's also not very durable and gets eaten up. [00:14:05] So you have to then create this one millimeter shell to protect it. With all the venting that you put in, it's pretty common now to put like a plastic interior chassis to keep the helmet together on impact. And so I just suppose that with additive manufacturing or 3d printing, because what we're doing is integrating everything into one coherent design, right? [00:14:26] And so when we're laying…

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    Trek Travel - Girona Gravel Tour with Ewan Shepherd Sep 21, 2021
    Show notes

    This week we sit down with Ewan Shepherd from Trek Travel to discuss their upcoming Girona Gravel Tour trips. We learn about the city, the cycling community and the abundance of gravel that surrounds the city. Trek Travel Gravel Tour Girona Join The Ridership Support the Podcast Automated Transcription (please excuse the typos): Trek Travel [00:00:00] Craig Dalton: Hello and welcome to the gravel ride podcast. I'm your host Craig Dalton. [00:00:06] This week on the podcast, we're joined by UN shepherd European logistics manager for track travel. Based out of Girona Spain. [00:00:14] As the longtime listener knows I've been super keen on the idea of gravel travel and super excited to see this industry grow up. [00:00:22] We had an earlier discussion with Juan De La Roca about Southern Colorado and building that up as a gravel destination. And now we're seeing events like LIfeTime's Rad Dirt Fest crop up over there. We've also talked to event organizers over in Europe, around the gravel epic series that was conceived. During the COVID time and didn't actually get to get its races off the ground. [00:00:46] But one of the locations we talked about in Europe was Girona. Now for road cyclist, Girona has long been part of the discussion about where professional athletes live. And there's a reason why they live there. Amazing road, riding all over the place. So I was really excited to learn originally from the gravel epic team about Girona as a travel destination for gravel cyclists. [00:01:11] But even more excited to learn about this trip that Trek travel is putting together their Girona, gravel bike tour. [00:01:18] They've got a couple more departures this year in November that you can still sign up for as well as a whole host of dates for 2022, starting in the spring. [00:01:28] After talking to you. And all I can say is sign me up. It sounds amazing. I'll let him explain it in his own words, but it sounds like Jerome has a very special place for cyclists of all kinds. [00:01:39] And the opportunities for gravel cycling are abundant outside the city center. [00:01:44] I'm excited for you to learn more about Girona and gravel. With that said let's dive right in to my conversation with you and shepherd [00:01:52] Ewan welcome to the show. [00:01:53] Ewan Shepherd: Hey Craig, thank you very much for having me and thank you everybody for listening. [00:01:58] Craig Dalton: I appreciate you joining us on a Friday evening over there in Spain, I'm super excited about the topic we're going to discuss today as the listener or the longterm listener has known. [00:02:08] I've talked about gravel travel as something I'm super excited about because as we all know, it's such a great way to explore the world and the idea of packing my bike and going somewhere exotic, like Girona Spain is super exciting to me. So when I got the opportunity to connect with Trek travel, Dig into this trip and dig into Jarana grab gravel jumped at it. [00:02:31] So you, and thank you for joining me. And let's just get started by a little bit about your background. [00:02:37] Ewan Shepherd: Yeah, no worries. Thank you again for having me. And I guess we share something in common that we both enjoy eating well by bike. So gravel travel is definitely evident between us all. Huh. So Bob, my background it's been varied. [00:02:50] I started off as a kid, not really enjoying the power of two wheels on my own preferring Moda, power of motocross, bikes, and motor sport, and pursue the a career in motor sport. I am, I'm only 29, so it's not, it wasn't a long career. And then I decided to jump into the cycle career really because my brother threw me on an old racing bike of hairs and said, we're going trick racing of what is this. [00:03:14] And yeah. That's how I got into cycling and kind of started to learn about it. Then love cycling, all things cycling really threw me on the amount of bikes for the first time. He threw me on a cyclocross bike for the first time, took me to attract for the first time. And just more and more, I ate it up and started falling in love with with cycling and And then I thought, why not help out in my local bike shop? [00:03:37] Because I was in between jobs and bugging the owner and the mechanic calling in on the bike and asking for them to help me with this, or could they get pots or for that? And then they were like, Hey, we need an extra hand here. And you're pretty mechanically minded. Can you want to come and help us out? [00:03:53] And that's how I, it. Wrenching in a bike shop. And from there, it took me to I was actually living in Australia at the time and working in a shop debt. And then I started working for the initial prompt and dealer in Australia, which was pretty fun and interesting. Little folding bikes, which were going all over kind of the Australasia and New Zealand even send a bite that prompted the Fiji. [00:04:17] And then I moved back to the UK and was starting working for old mountain bike brands that maybe some of your listeners have heard of head of pay cycles. They're one of the first UK monocyte grants set up by, by a young family at the time who did same as me. They love motocross and enjoy bike riding. [00:04:38] And they wanted a bike to, to train on during the time that they weren't racing on the road. And so they imported mountain bikes yet to important Gary fishers at the time, because there was nothing else in Europe and or in the UK. So he, Adrian is the main designer of the car. And he designed his own on mountain bikes. [00:04:57] Did y'all say 100, was that famous plus bikes, square tube. aluminum that they rooted out pots of the frame to make it lighter. So I started working for them after they did the whole amount of bike brand and we They had two shops at the time that they just started and started in rental centers. [00:05:14] So I joined them a running one at that shops. And then they got back into the frames. And that's when started to learn more about frame design, different bikes, and the whole Enduro scene was mounted bike and jurors scene was growing. And that was something that we were really interested in the time. [00:05:34] And. I was starting to cyclocross race at a time. I would go off a weekend, so cyclocross race and come back to work. And we were designing 29 S slack long, low amount of bikes. And we also had a total. Version cause Adrian and his wife happy love to go off to all sorts of places. [00:05:53] The, they did Chile, they went and wrote the Santiago combo skeleton and Northern Spain, all of these cycle touring. And he adapted one of the hardtail Enduro steel mountain bikes and put lugs on it. So he could take. And I was like, I liked the look of that bite, but I don't really I don't want to put drop bars on it. [00:06:14] Can I put drop bars on it? Let's try it. And so here I had a 29 mountain bike slack long, whoa, with with a draw bar on it. And I was like this pretty cool. And they were looking to, they already had an exi carbon bikes. I was like, can we do this a bit lighter? Because. Yorkshire is, I know you're you have family that Craig and it's up down. [00:06:35] Dale is Dale is a small valley and it's really steep at each side. And I live in between the two national products of the north York Moors and the Yorkshire Dales. And they have so many of these little Dales. So riding across that, you'd go down and it's like down 25% down to a flat valley, then literally back up the other side, 25 to 30%. [00:06:57] So I wanted something nice and light, but to go all day across the Dales and the malls And so we were making this and thinking, oh, this could be a cool and gravel was coming on the scene at the time. And I was interested in bike packing with it and just testing out something that was a good touring bike. [00:07:18] But at the same time, I just saw touring at the time as being something that my parents did or all the people did when they retired. So I wanted something fun cause I still enjoyed enjoy mountain biking. So I wanted to take it down some trails at the same time as doing a hundred K on it, which I certainly wouldn't do on my one 60 mil. [00:07:36] Enjoy a bike, do a hundred K, but so that's where I discovered this cyclocross gravel mix. That we all call gravel today. Which Adrian at the time was like, we used to race on my, on a bikes would drop handlebars XC and downhill back in the 1980s. Cause inventing anything new it's all coming round in circles, the wheels going round, as they say. [00:08:00] So that was really my early years in the cycling industry playing with that. And then. Being honest, Googled cool bike mechanic jobs in one places which took me back to Australia. And then I wanted to go back to Europe and it took me to the warmest place at the time, which was the Canary islands which was great for gaining some exposure of just massive cyclists all at once. [00:08:24] Thousands of people on the road, just riding the bikes, having fun on holiday guided, worked in rental shops. Love the Canary island lifestyle. And then I just stumbled across Trek travel. I told the global logistics manager at one day, I was like, I want to come work for you because I want to help out on some of your big trips. [00:08:41] They were doing tour de France and big Pyrenees trips and out trips. And I just really liked the idea of offering support to. To other people, not the I'd been guy, a guy that I wanted to support the guides. I knew all the tricks of all the problems of being a guide. So I wanted to help them most of all, help back help their guests. [00:09:04] And that kind of leads me to here where I'm the European logistics coordinator for Trek travel and in our home base of drones. [00:09:11] Craig Dalton: Amazing. It's such a, it's so interesting. As people who have been around the sport of cycling for a long time to trace back when you first started doing the thing that later became gravel cycling. [00:09:25] Because obviously as you've indicated, as we've discussed before, People have been riding drop bar bikes off-road for a long time, but it was this kind of gradual progression of componentry, frame, design, methodology, tires, brakes, all these things combined to making what was once somewhat a hacky type experience where you were maybe bringing a bike that wasn't exactly suited for the job to where we are now. [00:09:53] That depending on where you are and how you want to set up your bike. There's such a wide variety of ways in which you can configure these bikes to ride on the roads and trails wherever you live in the world. [00:10:05] Ewan Shepherd: Yeah. It's always fascinated me coming from like a motor sport design element. [00:10:10] Always into aerodynamics working with formula two, formula three. And then I had to, I always had a love for kind of classic cause I raised something in the UK or Europe rally cross, which I don't think you have in us, but it's it's exactly that it's a cross between this second is gravel road and dirt, and you drive a little bit of each and we always used to race the classic mini Coupa's. [00:10:35] That was my classic love of cause. But yeah, that was a tangent. Sorry. [00:10:40] Craig Dalton: No, it's an interesting perspective. I hadn't, no, one's brought that up before, but it's totally true. There's parallels in that experience because you had to have a car that drove well on the road. Capable off-road and presumably every driver, just like every rider had to make those difficult choices of, okay. [00:10:57] Do I want it to be higher performing on-road or off-road and what's that happy medium for me as a, as an athlete. [00:11:04] Ewan Shepherd: Yeah. And I think that changes with your with you personally, you may be a road cyclist, but you have that instinct to what's down there and it's a gravel road to go off road and explore it. [00:11:18] And you want to feel safe and comfortable. You don't want to necessarily take your 23 mil tires, cotton road bike down a. The track you want a bike that's comfortable and safe to do it all. [00:11:31] Craig Dalton: Yeah, exactly. Talking about Trek travel specifically, obviously with the track name associated with it, people associated directly with the brand, but the company itself as Trek travel. [00:11:43] Can you tell us a little bit about its origins and how long it's been operating? [00:11:47] Ewan Shepherd: Yeah it's actually a 20th year of fun. 2020 years since charter travel was thought up in the, in Trek itself where it started with just three people brought into to en enhance the experience that people were getting when they were not just buying a bite or buying into the Trek brand, which. [00:12:09] Is ride bikes, have fun, feel good. And Chuck just wants to get more people on bikes to have fun. And one of the ways was to offer them a trip of a lifetime of vacation, of a lifetime to somewhat. And that idea grew over the last 20 years studying in the U S and then Trek bought into the protein of yeah. [00:12:30] Trek. And they started running a VIP trips to the total France and bringing clients across. But that specifically to see the tour and see the classics that the ring in Europe have the outs to, to climb out west, to do Mon Von to go to the pyramids and do the tour of my life. The real bread and butter of your. [00:12:51] And that's grown just more destinations, more places to ride more great experiences by bike. And yeah, that's brought us to now at 20 years [00:13:01] Craig Dalton: old. Yeah. And for those of you who have not done a bike tourism trip, it really is amazing. And a luxury. It's obviously a luxury to be able to afford it, but to be able to go over and do this and to have someone plan out the best of the best to plan out the best roads, the best routes when you're coming off the Tourmalet or a mom volunteer to knowing the right cafe to stop in having extra gear for you, having a guide that, speaks the language, but more importantly can help you get integrated into the culture in my personal experience, having done several trips over and yeah. [00:13:37] It was just such a great time. If you can afford to spend that time on your bikes, spend a week on one of these trips. It's just so amazing, which is why I remained super jazzed and excited to talk about the gravel tours that track is introducing. When did you first start to see gravel cycling as something that you could package a trip around? [00:14:01] Ewan Shepherd: Yeah. I don't know who or when the first kind of the idea here's what talks about it. Cause I'm sure it's been something we're always looking at new trends, new you, new ways to travel that that people want to do. And new experiences and to we're primarily on the road, we started with mountain bike trips. [00:14:20] Think I wouldn't say five, six years ago. And dos were in small pockets in Iceland, Norway, and that's a great way to get completely off the road. But then we found a a lot of people. They still want it to, they still want it to do a bit of everything. They want it to go on the road still. [00:14:38] They wanted to do the classic climbs as well as being off the road. So it was like that mix of, we took you to this beautiful forest, but actually you want it to be on the road as well in the same week. And, but you didn't want to do it on the amount of bike. And at the time there was no real bike that we had. [00:14:56] Do it and then as the Demani that tried to money evolve, it's got this name as being the, do it all bike. Whether it's ISO speed and its ability to take why th…

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