TopPodcast.com
Menu
  • Home
  • Top Charts
  • Top Networks
  • Top Apps
  • Top Independents
  • Top Podfluencers
  • Top Picks
    • Top Business Podcasts
    • Top True Crime Podcasts
    • Top Finance Podcasts
    • Top Comedy Podcasts
    • Top Music Podcasts
    • Top Womens Podcasts
    • Top Kids Podcasts
    • Top Sports Podcasts
    • Top News Podcasts
    • Top Tech Podcasts
    • Top Crypto Podcasts
    • Top Entrepreneurial Podcasts
    • Top Fantasy Sports Podcasts
    • Top Political Podcasts
    • Top Science Podcasts
    • Top Self Help Podcasts
    • Top Sports Betting Podcasts
    • Top Stocks Podcasts
  • Podcast News
  • About Us
  • Podcast Advertising
  • Contact
Not in our directory?
Add Show Here
Podcast Equipment
Center

toppodcastlogoOur TOPPODCAST Picks

  • Comedy
  • Crypto
  • Sports
  • News
  • Politics
  • True Crime
  • Business
  • Finance

Follow Us

toppodcastlogoStay Connected

    View Top 200 Chart
    Back to Rankings Page
    Outdoor

    The Gravel Ride. A cycling podcast

    The Gravel Ride is a cycling podcast where we discuss the people, places and products that define modern gravel cycling. We will be interviewing athletes, course designers and product designers who are influencing the sport. We will be providing information on where to ride, what to ride and how to stay stoked on gravel riding.

    Advertise
    • Apple Podcasts
    • Google Play
    • Spotify

    Latest Episodes:
    Jason Turner - Unicorn Cycles Mar 01, 2022
    Show notes

    This week we sit down with Unicorn Cycles founder, Jason Turner to talk about Asian made custom titanium gravel bikes. This episode is sponsored by Hammerhead and the new Karoo 2 GPS computer. Hammerhead Website: use code THEGRAVELRIDE Unicorn Cycles Support the Podcast Join The Ridership Automated Transcription, please excuse the typos: Jason Turner - Unicorn [00:00:00] Craig Dalton: Hello and welcome to the gravel ride podcast. I'm your host Craig Dalton. This week on the podcast we have jason turner from unicorn cycles coming to us to talk about custom titanium gravel bikes . Before we get into today's show, I need to welcome a new sponsor to the gravel ride podcast. Hammerhead, you may be familiar with the Hammerhead Karoo computer. What you may not be aware of is that the Karoo two is now available. It was named bicycling magazines, editors choice in GPS computers for the past two years running and continues to collect accolades throughout the sport. Funny story a few years back when I did the Oregon timber trail with a couple of friends, we each had a different make of GPS cycling computer. And it actually took the three of them. To try to find our way through this trail system. Each one had its own attributes. And the one thing that stood out about the hammerhead kuru, the original one. Was the mapping capabilities. The screen and the design of the mapping functionality is much more akin to what you'd be familiar with on your iPhone or Android phone. It's beautiful mapping, and to be able to pinch and zoom and blow up that map. It was a key component of our navigation on the Oregon timber trail. On that original Karoo device, I found it to be a bit big and heavy, so it never became a daily driver for me. So when the crew two was announced, I was super stoked that they've been able to reduce the size well, actually improving the capability of the device. What I really love about the latest one I've been testing. Is that you can swipe through the screens very easily and customize them to the nth degree. For me, as you guys know in Marin county, everything's about vertical feet and climbing mileage is less consequential to how a ride feels or it's going to look after the fact than the amount of climbing I've been doing. So by setting up the crew to, to have a climbing feature to it, I can see exactly where I am from an elevation perspective, which gives me an idea as to where I am on. On the mountain. So I basically have one screen that's dedicated specifically to elevation and climbing. And that's one of the ways in which I can navigate around the mountain. And then I swipe over and I've got another detailed screen that has the mapping capability of it. I'll get into a much more about the Karoo 2's features in the coming weeks as Hammerhead is agreed to come on as a sponsor for a number of episodes. For a limited time, our listeners can get a free custom color kit and an exclusive premium water bottle with the purchase of a Hammerhead Karoo to computer. Visit hammerhead.io right now. And use the promo code, the gravel ride at checkout to get yours today. That's a free custom color kit and a premium water bottle with the purchase of a crew to simply go to www.Hammerhead.io at all three items to your cart and use the promo code, the gravel ride. This is an exclusive limited time offer only for the gravel ride podcast listeners. So be sure to head over and don't forget that promo code, the gravel ride. With that said let's jump right into this week show Hey Jason, welcome to the show. [00:03:12] Jason Turner: Thanks Craig. Thanks for having me on the Gravel ride podcast. This is [00:03:16] Craig Dalton: I'm excited to learn more about unit unicorn cycles. We always like to start off by setting the stage, get a little bit of understanding about. Your background as a cyclist. And obviously that goes hand in hand with the development of the brand and the company unicorn cycles. So why don't you tell us about that journey? How did you find riding bikes? What kind of bikes do you like to ride and then we'll get into unicorn. [00:03:40] Jason Turner: Okay. Yeah. I think for most people, the seed for cycling starts as a child. Growing up as a kid in the city, I lived on 19th street and I wasn't allowed to leave the block. You could just a little square inner city. And so, but that didn't stop me, me and a friend on many occasions. I remember we'd ride our BMX bikes up to a hundred 19th street. And we thought that was like really far that took us hours with stoplights and everything else. And so just that idea of like freedom as a kid on the bike and going far later on as an adult, I mapped out. That distance in, in the old neighborhood where we read ride and realized it was just six and a half miles each way. So it wasn't very far, but flash forward to it to an adult. I was living in Austin, Texas. I was running, swimming, really active. Everyone in Austin was doing a triathlon. And so I decided to just try it. So I bought my first real road bike. It was a steel Biyanki. It's about a thousand dollars in immediately after getting the bike. I was, I was just hooked. I had a bike before, but training for triathlons. So literally three weeks after getting this first road bike, I did my first century. Probably not very advisable, bonked hard. So I like to educate myself anytime I get into anything. So I was reading books on cycling and one that stuck with me. I still have today is the long distance cycling by Edmund Burke. I think it is. And so in the book he covered stuff like Ram, but one of the ones I remember reading about was the furnace Creek five week epic ride, death valley, Mojave desert 29 palms. And so, Point I've been only riding a road bike a couple months. And I publicly, when my friends and family said, Hey, next year, next time they do the five way on a do it. So needless to say I didn't, I didn't think the Biyanki was up to the task and the 5 0 8. So I was looking at getting a different bike and. Long distance cycling book. There was mention of soft ride and tightened flex. Some of your writers may recognize a tightened flex they're a San Diego. And so, boom, bike being bike, whatever you want to call it, similar to the Trek. Why foil? Anyway, it seemed like the best bike for long distance cycling. So I contacted the owner, Tom at Titan flex. Hey, I'll redo your website, to get a deal on a Titan flex. So he took me up on the offer. I redid the website and got a Titan flex. So a little over a year after purchasing my first road bike, I'm there at the start of the 5 0 8 with your crew that you have to have with the Titan flex with a bike. I rented in Southern California, just as a backup bike. Just wanted to see how far I could go. And. It literally crashed at 300 miles. I thought I broken some bones, but I'm like, no. And I keep going. I pushed myself, wrote another a hundred miles. So for a total of 400 miles, but at this point I wasn't going to finish. There's a 48 hour cutoff. And so I called the race organizer, cell phone reception in this remote area at, I don't know what time it was. Eight, two o'clock in the morning called the race organizer dropped out. And so then a couple hours later, Directly from the end of the race where we stopped, it was still about two or three hours to the ER. And that was basically my next stop. Didn't break anything. But over the next few years, I did similar events to the five wait I'm in Texas. There's something called the Texas time trials. They have 12. 24 48 hour events. It's a 26 mile loop. So psychologically it's a little bit different doing a loop. And you don't have to have a crude, which is kinda nice. You don't have to carry things with you. But I bought another bike and it was a you or at least a frame. It was a titanium Lightspeed. I built it up and at that point I fell in love with titanium. So, due to change. [00:07:19] Craig Dalton: Is there anything in your background that suggested that you'd be well-suited to these ultra endurance type events? [00:07:25] Jason Turner: Maybe my mentality of just like push myself, going hard, going long. I was real gun-ho as a kid for the military, but I didn't, I ended up not joining. I always had strong legs playing football and stuff like that. So I dunno, maybe it was the strong legs in that don't quit dedicated mentality. And also the idea of just going farther, going, 500 miles nonstop. Kind of set well with me, the, the farther distance. So yeah, nothing specifically in my background. I was just hooked. Yeah, it's [00:07:55] Craig Dalton: interesting. I imagine like, being relatively new at that time to cycling as you started just a few years prior, Any issues around like fit or bike performance probably became very apparent to you. So, whereas others of us, it might've taken years to start to understand, like, what does a steel bike feel like versus a titanium bike versus a carbon bike. All of a sudden you've got all these miles underneath you imagine you're developing a fine kind of tuned mentality to frame materials and design. [00:08:26] Jason Turner: I think there was in the back of my mind, like always wanting to try out different things, different setups again, reading about what other people were doing and recommending for those things. That's I think that's why with the steel Biyanki, but I think I was young enough at that time that, I could beat up my body and it would take it. But there was a point where I had to stop writing due to just changes in life. So in 2010, I moved from Austin to Denver. I wrote a bike a surly long haul trucker. It had a two wheel trailer behind it. I literally, that's how I moved from Austin to Denver. As I rode this bike. And when I got to Denver, I sought out another cycling club the Rocky mountain cycling club, and they're focused on longer rides and purveys kind of similar to one of their factions or one of the outfits in Rocky Mount side include club. It is similar to the triple crown series in California. So you do these long 200 mile rides in short timeframes, 20,000 feet worth of climbing, and you can get a triple crown. So I, I do consider myself, I call myself an ultra cyclist, twenty four, forty eight hour events, 750 mile, or even a thousand miles. That's the longest one I've done. Self-supported races, 200 mile gravel rides with strict time cutoffs 1200 K purveys. But the point of me mentioning kind of not bravado or bragging about like all these long rides is that I think because the nature of the rides in the long distance, I was constantly trying new. And setups new components every year since starting unicorn, I would build a new bike for myself just so I could try out. Try something new different scene. If there was, so many advantages and it's not always about speed, especially when at that distance, it's about comfort. It's about bike packing. There's so many of the things, just staying on the bike. Even if you're not fast, if you're on the bike and moving, that's better than maybe sleeping for four hours in some cases, Yeah. [00:10:17] Craig Dalton: It's, it's definitely an interesting perspective to bring to the business. So you started to mention it and we should get into it now. So you've got a business called unicorn cycles and it sounds like it was the result of this journey. You took on finding the right bike for you and the right material. So let's talk about, I mean, obviously aspiring to have a custom bike for you that fits your needs is not unusual for cycling. But going ahead and starting a company around it is unusual. So why don't you talk about that step and what led to you believing that unicorn cycles was your future professionally [00:10:55] Jason Turner: speaking? So at this point, living in Denver, I, I had a titanium bike that I bought from online, from another company that does something similar to unicorn. And I was looking to buy another one from them a few years later. I basically thought maybe I'll do something similar to tighten flex. So I contacted the owner of this other company, which I'd rather not name and said, Hey, can we work out some sort of deal discount, help with marketing website. So, something along the way, and they didn't seem that interested in anything I had to offer. So at this point I started thinking that. I know they were on their website. I'm transparent in that they don't build the bikes it's from overseas, but I thought to myself, you know what, I can do that better. And so, and I think a lot of ideas, not just in cycling, but any industry start with someone thinking. I see what you're doing, I can do it better. And so, I still wanted a bike for myself, accustomed titanium frame. And so, I contacted different companies outside the U S not just in Asia and settled on one builder, one shop to build a frame for myself. It was what I consider the first unicorn. This was in 2016. And then I started design bikes and, and, and go through that same builder and process for some of my friends. I tried one time I would try this particular shop and then this shop just to see, with the idea that. I didn't know where this was going with unicorn. I didn't have this ambition to start this big company or anything like that. Or make lots of money. I just liked bikes. I liked the design aspect of it. I have a, a background, a little bit in our architecture, design drafting sort of thing. So it kind of fit well with that aspect of it. But I finally kind of picked two companies that I contracted with. Unicorn. And it was clear to me at the time that there was a gap. Certainly writers could go direct to some of these companies overseas and have a bike built for them. Unicorn kind of fill the gap where it wasn't boutique American made very expensive custom frame, but it wasn't. I think there's a lot of apprehension of writers going directly to Asian companies and having a bike built and them thousands of dollars talking to someone who. Isn't a native speaker that has different, isn't a different time zone. They're not cyclists. They're just kind of taking an order. They'll make changes to the design if you want. But so I felt where I could differentiate unicorn and myself is, would that consultative sort of sell? And maybe it's not scalable. Long-term we'll see. How many of these custom frames we can do in a week or a month? Scalability is definitely a concern, but then again, I'm not necessarily looking to be a multimillion dollar company. I just, I like writing. I like helping out other writers. And so it just seemed like a win-win. [00:13:41] Craig Dalton: So obviously listeners to the show are familiar with a lot of the titanium frame builders in the United States, whether it's a moots or Lightspeed or a Dean or a mosaic. You've sort of talked about how titanium was the material you felt was the best performing for the style of writing that you were looking to do? What is it about titanium that you think makes it a great material for these long gravel? [00:14:08] Jason Turner: Sure sure. Not just gravel events but I'll just say for a custom frame in particular. So thinking about, the reason behind titanium for a custom frame. So I'm hard on my personal bikes. I'm a heavier writer. All the miles I put in on the, the rides and races Means, there's a lot of scratch. There's a lot of Nicks there. It's exposed a lot of wear and tear. My personality, I'm a little bit OCD. I like my bike clean and looking new. And so I think a lot of l…

    Full show notes at the publisher

    In the Dirt #28 Feb 22, 2022
    Show notes

    After getting a bike fit, Craig is now considering the possibility of a custom frame. Randall helps Craig walk through the various considerations and shares some tools for comparing bikes.

    Bike Geo Calculator

    Support the Podcast

    Join The Ridership


    Monica Garrison - Black Girls Do Bike Feb 15, 2022
    Show notes

    On this week's episode Randall speaks with Monica Garrison, Founder, Executive Director, and Chief Storyteller of Black Girls Do Bike. BGDB's mission is to introduce women and girls to the joys of cycling, with an emphasis on those of color who are often less-represented in the cycling community. With 30K+ members spread over 100+ chapters, BGDB is rolling proof of the bicycle's potential as a vehicle for connection and an example we hope to learn from and collaborate with as we evolve our own efforts toward building community. Black Girls Do Bike Support the Podcast Join The Ridership Automated Transcription, please excuse the typos: Monica Garrison - Final [00:00:00] Randall R. Jacobs: Welcome to the Gravel Ride podcast. I'm today's host Randall Jacobs. And with me is Monica Garrison monica is the founder executive director and chief storyteller of black girls do bike and organization she founded in 2013 and has grown to a hundred plus chapters worldwide black girls do bike.org is where you can find more about her organism. She's also a skilled professional photographer and videographer whose work you can find on her personal website, Monica godfrey.com, Godfrey being her maiden name. And with that, I'd like to bring my friend Monica Garrison to join us here. So Monica, welcome to the podcast. [00:00:35] Monica Garrison: Hello. Hello. Happy to be here. Thanks for having. [00:00:39] Randall R. Jacobs: Absolutely. It's been a while in the making. So let's dive right in. What were your motivations for starting black girls do bike. [00:00:46] Monica Garrison: Black grocery bike came from a place of longing for community. I was, um, discovering my joy of, or my love of cycling in the summer spring of 2013. And after a few months of writing and, you know, discovering my city in a new way and spending time with my kids, um, at the end of all that I realized that I didn't see many women who look like me on, on bikes in my town. And so. You know, these women are either out there and I, I can't find them or that they don't exist and they need to know about how great cycling is because I have found cycling to be very, um, healing in a lot of ways, you know, mentally healing, obviously physically healing. Um, and so when I went to the internet to find these women, I, I didn't really find, um, good representation of women, of color on bikes. And so. That was, that was the birth. The Genesis of black girls do bike. It was, it was like, well, let's create this space and invite women into it and see what happens. And, um, and the rest is history. [00:01:52] Randall R. Jacobs: And your base. [00:01:54] Monica Garrison: I'm in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. [00:01:56] Randall R. Jacobs: And it sounds like this was a very personal for you, but so before we dive into the organization, I want to talk, I want to hear more about your personal journey with the bike. [00:02:04] Monica Garrison: I mean, I, I think like most people I wrote as a child, I spent my summers on my bike with my brother around my Pittsburgh neighborhood Lincoln. Lymington where I grew up. And and so it was a big part of my childhood. And then I think like most, most women may. We just stopped riding and at some point, and and then when you get to a point where. The burdens of life kind of catch up with you and you're looking for ways to ease those, those burdens. You look hopefully to exercise or to some other outlet. And, um, for me having all those good memories of riding my bike and feeling stress-free, um, I turned to, I turned to cycling. But it was, it was cool because I started to connect with like Pittsburgh, which was our local bike that, that organization here. And I discovered, you know, this great community of, of bike advocates and people of all sizes and genders and, um, who just wanted to ride their bike carefree and, and do it safely. And so that opened up a lot of possibilities, um, as to what riding even meant for me here. And. [00:03:09] Randall R. Jacobs: What was your, what was your first bike? And how'd you come about it. [00:03:12] Monica Garrison: Um, the very first bike like [00:03:15] Randall R. Jacobs: Yeah, well going, going back to your, your most recent journey back onto two wheels. [00:03:20] Monica Garrison: Yeah. So I, I did, um, I think what everyone in my generation does, I just. Like crazy online to figure out what kind of bike I need it. And I decided that there was, it was Bita was the name of it, maybe by specialized and it just seemed perfect. And then in the styling was right up my alley. So I'm just like a hybrid commuter type bike. Um, but it was the perfect tool to get me back on my bike because it was so versatile. I could ride on any type of terrain and it was very comforting. Um, despite the small seat, I was apprehensive that it would actually be comfortable, but it, it really was. And, um, yeah, so that bite got me through that first year. And because I was so obsessed with cycling by the end of that first year, um, I added another bike to my stable by the second, you know, the following summer, more of a road bike, um, drop bars to, you know, help me with the speed and even more, it was even more comfortable. So there you go. [00:04:20] Randall R. Jacobs: So that Vita if it was a 2013 or 2014, um, I would have had a hand in it cause I was at specialized and that was one of the bikes under, um, I wasn't the product manager, but I would have been doing the bill of materials and um, the supply chain stuff for that bike. Yeah. So, so I know that bike reasonably well. Yeah. [00:04:38] Monica Garrison: Yeah. Yeah. No, it was great. It was a great bike and I, when I finally sold it, I sold it to someone like it was, it was a good cause I knew they needed that bike at that time. But I really didn't want to let it go because it is really, it was really a great bike. [00:04:53] Randall R. Jacobs: Yeah, it's, [00:04:54] Monica Garrison: still recommend to people today. They're like, what should I start on? I'm like, well, I started on the visa and I loved it. Um, and then, you know, there are other bikes that are comparable across all the brands, but, um, yeah, that bike, that bike stole my heart. [00:05:08] Randall R. Jacobs: Well, and that sort of machine, you know, they, you, you can, you know, they go up into the, a couple of thousands, but you can get an entry-level one at around 500 bucks or so. And it's a fine machine for getting off the ground. And that's, I think that that accessibility is a real critical, um, area of our sport that, that. No, it needs to be addressed. We have a lot of people in our community that are riding, you know, fancy superbikes, but you have to get a start somewhere. [00:05:32] Monica Garrison: Yeah, for sure. and I had done, like I had done the cheaper bikes and I knew all the things, you know, in terms of comfort and durability that. And so I said, I'm going to invest in myself. Right. I'm going to do this. If I'm going to do this, I'm going to do it. Right. So I, um, so I was like, yeah, $500 is worth the investment. If it gives me a machine. that does what I needed to do and it ended up being a great investment for sure. [00:05:59] Randall R. Jacobs: And what were some of the earliest rides you went on? What was that experience like? [00:06:03] Monica Garrison: Um, there's a great trail in Pittsburgh called the Eliza furnace trail. And, um, [00:06:09] Randall R. Jacobs: I've been on that [00:06:10] Monica Garrison: it runs along. Yeah. Yeah. It's um, it runs along our Parkway and then it's, you know, circled, it goes in lots of directions. It's, it's actually pretty cool. It runs past our county jail. Um, it and it runs to the south side of town, which has great great culture over there. So yeah, the olanzapine trail. is pretty cool. It's actually still my favorite trail. Um, and then. When I, when I would ride with the kids, we were always looking for like, you know, kid friendly. So I spent a lot of times, a lot of time on the trails because I wanted my kids to come along with me. And, um, obviously I didn't want to take them onto the roads. So I got really familiar with that. And then I grew up in east Liberty, that part of town. Um, and there are a lot of things to bike Pittsburgh. There are a lot of bike lanes there now, which are. Pretty conducive to getting around town without having to interact too much with traffic. So, um, so that's probably my favorite part of the town to ride in. [00:07:07] Randall R. Jacobs: Yeah, I've been visiting Pittsburgh for like 15 years or so. And the amount of investments in the downtown and broader infrastructure and so on with bike being part of that has been it's been quite transformative in that area. So very cool to hear that you've been taking advantage. [00:07:21] Monica Garrison: pretty sure. [00:07:23] Randall R. Jacobs: And how old were your kids at the time? And th this is we're talking like early 2010. [00:07:27] Monica Garrison: Yeah, right. So my youngest, I taught him the ride at four. So he was probably four, my daughter's three years older. So she was seven. So four year old and a seven year old. And we're like killing it around Pittsburgh, on our bikes. Yeah. [00:07:41] Randall R. Jacobs: That's great. Yeah. Um, I have a niece and a couple of nephews that I live with in a few nephews next door. So kind of same thing for 6, 7, 8. And it's just really wonderful to have that experience. It kind of slows you down a little bit, I would imagine. [00:07:58] Monica Garrison: Yeah. Yeah. It's a different type of ride. But it's but it's invaluable in so many other ways, so it's cool. [00:08:06] Randall R. Jacobs: So tell me about some of your first big group rides with other adults. [00:08:09] Monica Garrison: Um, I think my first, I don't do a lot of group rides even to this day, to be honest with you. Um, cycling is in a lot of ways, a solo sport for me which is kind of ironic because I created this organization encouraging people to ride together and to appreciate the power of that. But yeah, in all honesty, I don't, I don't do a lot of group breads. I will say my, my favorite thing to do here in Pittsburgh, that feels like a groove ride, but it, so, so isn't um, is our open streets, um, series that we have throughout the summer. So they, they shut down miles and miles of streets here. And, you know, you can just be on the, on the open roads with other cyclists and rollerbladers and, um, All kinds of other people on transportation and the it shops are open, you know, everything's open. And, um, that, that sense of community is, is great. And it gets people on bikes who wouldn't normally be, and it gets them in, in an environment that they wouldn't normally be. So then they start to see. What's possible. And that's why I like that event so much, because once you experience it, you're like, oh, why can't we have this more often? You know, what's holding us back. And so I think it gets people's wheels turning into the possibilities of what, you know, open streets could really be. [00:09:32] Randall R. Jacobs: Yeah, I think the us is generally behind say a lot of European countries with regards to like cycling as a modality for transportation and recreation and so on, but you kind of hit a tipping point around, um, like 5%. Utilization of bikes versus other modes where the infrastructure comes into play and drivers are getting used to cyclists on the road, and you have a critical mass of people who are pushing for more open streets, more bike pads and things like that. Um, my guess is that Pittsburgh has hit that tipping point. Is there significant more like additional investment happening or [00:10:08] Monica Garrison: yeah. for sure. For sure. We we've had, um, for the last two last two terms, we've had the political power behind change, which has been helpful. Um, and so when folks are at the top are agreeable, you seem to get a lot more done. [00:10:27] Randall R. Jacobs: Yeah, for sure. Well, so then let's dive into, um, you know, how, how far, how many years into your ride? Did you decide? Okay. Um, I don't see enough people who look like me and I want to motivate them. I'm going to start an organization. How did that come about? [00:10:43] Monica Garrison: Yeah, it really wasn't immediate. Like, um, I realized that we were missing from the tapestry of my city pretty quickly. And, um, within, within months of me taking that first ride, I, I set up the Facebook page for black girls, Dubai. And, um, and then within a couple of months I said, this might be a thing, so I should probably get the domain. So the website came soon after and, um, I think I have to go back and look because the first chapter did not start in Pittsburgh. It actually started in Florida, a lady contacted me and said, I want to create this in my town. Would you be on board? And we worked through the process of creating the first chapter, but, um, Yeah, it was, it was almost the thought came to me immediately. And then it just took some time to figure out if it existed. Cause I don't want to duplicate someone else's work. Um, and there was, there was a group in the sea of black women on bikes, um, and they had had done a great job. It seemed to like galvanizing women of color in DC around cycling. And I thought, you know, that could, that could be, that could be worldwide, not just in DC. And So um, I started down the path of seeking women all over the country who shared this love of cycling. [00:12:06] Randall R. Jacobs: So started in Florida. And then what were the, what were the next chapters and how did that, was it, was it also organic people reaching out to you or was it more proactive or a mix of the two. [00:12:18] Monica Garrison: Um, it it's always been people reaching out to me. I think we created a page that was dedicated to showcasing what chapters we had and also giving folks steps they needed to follow to, to reach out if they felt they met the criteria to lead a group of black girls or like, um, women. So uh, so it was always we're, we're looking for. And I didn't really solicit at all. Other beyond that. And the first few chapters were major cities, as you can imagine, like Los Angeles has been, um, almost one of our founding chapters, Atlanta. We were in Texas pretty quickly. So our Houston chapter, I think was the first one in Texas, but we've since expanded to almost all the big cities. Um, yeah, just, it was like a domino effect. Once people realize that they could duplicate what we had done in their towns, they were very excited. And so we were just like, here, here are the tools you need, and we'll give you the platform to let people know that you exist and let's see what happens. [00:13:24] Randall R. Jacobs: So then from there, you've got this, you know, rapidly kind of self accumulating snowball of interest and people reaching out, wanting to start their own chapters. How did it evolve from there? And, um, what sorts of opportunities emerged as, as that started to grow and become a more visible. [00:13:41] Monica Garrison: Yeah, I think I remember so the first time I showed up at the national bike summit in DC. Which was, I believe the second year into this process. So folks had started to hear about us. Um, and I was like VIP at the bike summit. Like everyone knew who I was, folks were coming up to me and they were like, let's connect. We need to, you know, we need to help you grow this. And so out of that excitement, Because that's a meeting of the, you know, the greatest advocate minds of the, of the bike, um, community. And…

    Full show notes at the publisher

    Dylan Johnson - professional gravel/mtb racer, coach and YouTube personality Feb 08, 2022
    Show notes

    This week we sit down with North Carolina based professional gravel / mtb racer, Dylan Johnson about his 2022 goals, coaching and his popular YouTube channel. Dylan Johnson Coaching Dylan Johnson YouTube Support the Podcast Join The Ridership Automated transcription, please excuse the typos: Dylan Johnson [00:00:00] Craig Dalton: Hello and welcome to the gravel ride podcast. I'm your host Craig Dalton. This week on the podcast, we've got professional, gravel and MTB racer. Dylan Johnson. Describing Dylan is simply a racer would be overly limiting. As Dylan is also a certified coach. And a YouTube personality. I've been watching a bunch of Dylan's videos on YouTube lately, where he covers. Coaching his personal journey as an athlete and give some detailed overviews of his participation in some of the biggest gravel and MTB races around. What I thought is interesting about his coverage of these events specifically is that I found there's a lot of takeaways from them, for me as a mid-pack rider. Not only does he describe what it's like to stay on the wheels of some of the top racers? In the united states he takes an honest look at his own capabilities as we all should as we're participating and talks about when he's burning more candles than he should to stay in a particular group and what the net effects of that tend to be at the end of these events i thought it was super interesting and i've really enjoyed his colorful personality on youtube so i encourage you to give it a view. Dylan has been accepted to race in the lifetime grand Prix series, which covers both gravel and MTB races. So I'm super curious how an athlete like the Olin is going to fare over the course of the year. And I do think that series is going to be interesting because it's going to test a lot of athletes capabilities across. A pretty diverse set of courses. With that intro out of the way let's jump right into my conversation with dylan Dylan, welcome to the show. [00:01:47] Dylan Johnson: Yeah, thanks for having me. [00:01:49] Craig Dalton: I'm super stuck to have this conversation. I've been enjoying your work on YouTube of late, and I'm interested very much to hear about your background. So why don't we use that as a starting point? Let's talk about how you got into cycling and what led you to gravel racing ultimately. [00:02:05] Dylan Johnson: Yeah. I think. Cycling seriously. I think my dad got me a mountain bike when I was probably 12 years old and started racing shortly after that. And I think by the time I was 15, I was, I was probably training pretty seriously. And I started in the mountain bike side for most of my. Career, if you want to call it that I've been an endurance mountain bike racer. And just recently, probably within the last two or three years made the transition not fully into gravel racing. I still, I still do mountain bike racing, but I would say I'm much more of a gravel racer now. [00:02:41] Craig Dalton: And what part of the country did you grow up in? [00:02:42] Dylan Johnson: I grew up in the Washington DC area and it's it's a pretty busy area, but I, I went to. School at Bravard college in? Western, North Carolina. And that's where I currently live. And I like it a lot better just because there's a lot less people. The writing is a lot better, both on the road side and on the gravel side and the mountain bike side, it's just, it's just all around. [00:03:05] Craig Dalton: Yeah, it's interesting. I went to school in Washington, DC as well, and started as a mountain biker there. And I will say it is remarkable within that DC, Maryland, and Virginia area. How much decent mountain biking is there? [00:03:18] Dylan Johnson: Yeah, it's, it's pretty good considering that it's such a densely populated area. I mean, there, there was a, there? was a kind of rich cycling scene, I guess, just because there's so many people that lived there, there, there just happened to be a lot of cyclists we're in, we're in DC. Did you live? [00:03:34] Craig Dalton: I w I went to American university, so I lived in Northwest [00:03:38] Dylan Johnson: Gotcha. [00:03:39] Craig Dalton: and then for a while I was working for a DC based company and stayed with a friend in Chevy, chase, Maryland. [00:03:46] Dylan Johnson: So when you ride, what? Like Patapsco regularly? [00:03:51] Craig Dalton: Yeah. exactly. And then, you know, big trips for mountain biking would be out to say front Royal or something like that. [00:03:58] Dylan Johnson: Patapsco was a little far from me. I was in, I was on the Virginia side. So I would regularly ride Wakefield down head go to front Royal on the weekend. Yeah. [00:04:07] Craig Dalton: So when you went down to university in North Carolina, had you already begun your mountain bike racing career at that point? [00:04:14] Dylan Johnson: Yeah, I was, I, I went primarily just because Bravard college has a really good cycling team. They'd won multiple non-bank national championships as a team at that point. So. And it's honestly the main reason I went there. And I was part of the cycling team, race, mountain bikes for them, collegiate cycling or collegiate mountain biking is all short cross country races. There wasn't an endurance stuff, but there, there was a brief period of time where I was kind of trying to be a cross country, you know, traditional cross country, mountain bike racer. And I, I think that my strengths and my interests kind of lied more with endurance races. And by the time I was, I was a senior in college. I pretty much fully transitioned to be a endurance mountain bike racer. So I focused heavily on the NUE series. And for people that don't know what that is, it's a national series for a hundred mile mountain bike racing. And that was my main focus for probably four or five years. [00:05:16] Craig Dalton: That's interesting. Were you studying exercise physiology? I know it. And we'll get into the fact that you're a coach now, but I'm curious, like what led to that understanding of your own physiology that, Hey, the short track stuff, wasn't going to do it for you. And even as a young man, you should transition to longer form racing. [00:05:32] Dylan Johnson: Yeah, I was I got my degree in exercise science and it was, you know, sometimes people ask me when they're watching, after they've watched a bunch of my videos, like how. How'd you learn how to do all this research? I, part of it was, was through my degree. We learned how to research certain topics. But yeah, I, I don't know if, I don't know if I learned that my physiology didn't match shorter distance. Because of what I was learning in college, it was more so just trial and error. Like I, I just found that the longer the race was the better I did relative to my peers. And I think that still holds true to this day. You know, there, there, there are people that completely smashed me in a short track race. And then if we go do a hundred mile mountain bike race, it's the complete opposite. It wasn't necessarily an understanding of physiology, but more so trial and error, I would say [00:06:32] Craig Dalton: Yeah. Gotcha. So with this endurance mountain bike racing, what year? Just to give the listener a little bit of a timestamp, what year did you start to see gravel starts to take off and start thinking about it to some degree, whether you pursued it or. [00:06:47] Dylan Johnson: so 2018 was the year that I did my first gravel race. And I know that gravel was already. Coming up at that point. The first gravel race that I did was the CRO 10 buck 50, which is 150 mile gravel race on the coast of North Carolina, very flat. And then the second gravel race I ever did was at the time called dirty Kanza and now was Unbound as everyone knows. So yeah, that was my second gravel race ever, but I had a, I had a ton of experience doing endurance. Mountain bike racing. And I, you know, gravel racing is very similar. It's just a little bit less technical and a little bit more tactics. So it's not like I didn't have experience with that kind of race [00:07:29] Craig Dalton: When you went to Unbound back in 2018, obviously if you were focusing on a hundred mile mountain bike race, How was that leap up to 200 miles. And do you, in retrospect, feel like you weren't prepared for it? [00:07:43] Dylan Johnson: yeah. I was not prepared for it. I don't think. I, well, I don't want to, I was about to say, I don't think anyone is prepared for their first time, but then again, Ian Boswell literally won the thing his first time doing it this past year. So I don't know about that, but a lot of, a lot of even, even at the pro level, I've seen a lot of racers do it their first time and they had absolutely no idea what they were getting themselves into. And I a hundred percent fall in that boat as well. I didn't know what I was getting myself into. I think the biggest thing is. Longer in duration than what I was used to a hundred mile mountain bike races for me usually take anywhere from the six hour range to the eight hour range, depending on how demanding the courses and Unbound is I've never gotten in the I've done it twice. And I think this year was in the 11 hour range and I forget what it was in 2018. It's quite a few more hours out there than, than a hundred mile mountain biking. And I think the other thing too, is that it's, it's so exposed all day. There's no shade. You really got to contend with heat. There's, there's, you know, either two or three aid stations on the course, depending on what they decide to do. So you've got to carry a lot of stuff with you. It's a lot of planning. Yeah, it's a lot of stuff I wasn't prepared for. I made a whole video about that experience. And I don't know, it was, it was quite an experience that first time. [00:09:13] Craig Dalton: Yeah. Yeah. Like you said, I think regardless of how much research you do, it's going to be a surprise, which your body starts to do after 10, 12 hours, because it's impossible to get everything, right. Yeah. Particularly I [00:09:26] Dylan Johnson: done the race? [00:09:27] Craig Dalton: I haven't done, I haven't done a Unbound to. [00:09:31] Dylan Johnson: Yeah. [00:09:31] Craig Dalton: But I think I've done, you know, I've done these ultra endurance style races and you just, you just don't know where you're going to stack up until that day. And even you can't compare one day to the other, right? Your nutrition, the temperature out there, your hydration, other riders, whether you're chasing wheels or not, these all come into play at some point during those days. [00:09:52] Dylan Johnson: definitely. Definitely. Yeah. And The, the other thing I'll add in with Unbound, particularly, it's a problem with a lot of gravel races, but particularly Unbound is, is mechanicals. It seems like in flat tires, It seemed like half the pros that were out there this year. Probably half the field in general, not just pros dealt with some sort of flat tire issue. [00:10:11] Craig Dalton: Yeah, a hundred percent. I feel like we've talked about it on the podcast on a number of occasions. Like you've gotta be prepared for that both mentally, physically, and technically. So if you get a flat, just get off your bike and change it and keep going, because you may be depressed that you've lost the group you were in, but chances are, some of those are gonna guys are gonna in. Girls are going to have those same issues and you may find your same self back in that group. As long as you're mentally prepared to continue fighting throughout this. [00:10:38] Dylan Johnson: Yeah, Lawrence 10 damn got second place. I mean, he was in the sprint finish for the wind, got a early flat tire. Had to plug it. I believe Collins Strickland had a flat, had to plug it got fifth place, construct Strickland. When he won, got a flat tire late in the race had to plug it. Any, those were not, those were not the only two riders in the top 10 that got flats. So it's. It is not a race where a flat tire is a race ending mechanical by any means. [00:11:06] Craig Dalton: So that's 2018. You do your first Unbound kind of first season doing a couple of gravel races. Did you feel the draw at that point, or were you still kind of sticking to the endurance MTV scene for the primary focus of your efforts during the year? [00:11:21] Dylan Johnson: Yeah, I mean, I, I really enjoyed gravel racing when I tried it and it was. Probably a slow transition. I would say I started doing more and more in gravel races and less and less mountain bike races. 2020 was supposed to be the first year that I was going to be all in on gravel. And of course you know, there was hardly any racing in 2020 there was a little. [00:11:44] Craig Dalton: happened as it did. [00:11:46] Dylan Johnson: Right. There was a little bit, there was a little bit of racing in the fall, but, but I would say for the most part, that was a non season. [00:11:53] Craig Dalton: That's when you first came on my radar, because I was sort of on the sidelines as a fan of the sport and podcaster looking at 2020 as this potentially breakout year where there's been enough noise about gravel the last few years that anybody with any cycling shops off-road is going to start racing gravel. And we saw a lot of women come into the field and a lot of men. And I remember seeing your performance, I think, at the sugarcane. W w what became the sugar can one 50 and thinking to myself, oh, there's another name to watch who I haven't been aware of before. [00:12:28] Dylan Johnson: Yeah. Yeah. That sugar cane race. I, that was I, that was so early in 2020 that I don't even think I knew what COVID was at that point. It was, it was in January. So, but it was, it was a good thing that I got that race in before everything shut down. Cause, cause that one obviously went well and, and I think, you know, I had already planned to kind of transition to gravel, but that. You know, it, it made me think, all right, well, this is something that I'm good at. I should, I should pursue. [00:13:03] Craig Dalton: I'm curious, just from a sponsor perspective, as you're sort of managing yourself as a professional athlete and bringing together sponsors to support your efforts. Was that a difficult transition from people you were working with? Did you wholesale have to get new sponsors who were willing to support you in gravel or was it a more natural? Yes. And kind of conversation with them. [00:13:25] Dylan Johnson: It was, it was natural. The bike sponsor that I was, that I had was nine or bikes. I was working with them. for five years. They make both mountain bikes and gravel bikes. They want to sell both mountain bikes and gravel bikes. The fact that I was raising gravel, I mean, they were, they were supportive of that. The other sponsors that I have, I mean, it's not, you know, I can't even think of another sponsor that necessarily made only mountain bikes specifically. The equipment. And now I, now I to find a new version of that. So for the most part, I kept all my sponsors and they, they were happy about it because it seemed like gravel was getting more attention in. [00:14:05] Craig Dalton: Let's talk a little bit about your 20, 21 season then, cause you've certainly put in effort in terms of a number of big races and series. Do you want to just kind of give me some highlights throughout the year? I know you had some great success at BWR and he revisited your, your Unbound experience. We'll talk about a few of those…

    Full show notes at the publisher

    Craig Calfee Part 2: Gravel Industry Pioneer Feb 01, 2022
    Show notes

    In this part two of our conversation with bike industry pioneer Craig Calfee, he and Randall do a deep dive into the merits of suspension on gravel and road bikes before jumping into e-bike conversions, variable head angles, regenerative braking, an E-motorcycle project Craig is involved with in Africa, ideas for the ultimate mass-produced frame, and the challenges and opportunities of localized assembly and production. Calfee Designs Website Join The Ridership Support the Podcast Automated transcription, please excuse the typos: Craig Calfee Part 2 [00:00:00] Randal R. Jacobs: Welcome to the gravel ride podcast. I'm your host Randall Jacobs. And today I, once again have my friend Craig Calfee, this is part two of our conversation. We'll be having a part three at some point where we get into wood and bamboo bikes, but today we're going to be focusing on mostly on carbon fiber. And so with that first topic where we left off in the last conversation, Craig was, we were getting into suspension, particularly suspension on road bikes, but that would also apply to gravel bikes too. [00:00:28] Craig Calfee: Yeah, that's a great topic. It's one really close to my heart because we kind of stumbled on it through the bamboo bikes actually. And it was about the vibration damping of. We had a triathlete who had a really nice carbon fiber race bike that he used for Ironman distance triathlon. He's also a data junkie. So he had all the, all the, you know, biofeedback stuff, the heart rate monitor, the lactose levels, all kinds of crazy stuff that he measures on his training rides. So he also ordered a bamboo training bike just for fun. Really. He's a wealthy guy who can afford multiple expensive bikes. And we built at exactly the same geometry as his race bike, and the only difference ended up really being the race wheels that he didn't use all the time. Anyway. So he was doing his training runs and found that he was actually faster on the bamboo bike, which was about two pounds heavier than his race bike. So. I asked him, well, let me guess you're feeling fresher towards the end of the, the bike segment and your time advantages in the latter half of that segment, he said, you're right. And why is that? And I said, well, the only clue I have is that the bamboo definitely absorbs vibration better. So you're subjecting your body to less fatiguing vibration. And he said, that's exactly how it feels and has run after the bike is, is generally faster as well. And that backs up what Dave Scott reported when he rode our bike in the Ironman, when it came out of retirement at the age of 40 and came in second to, um, to Greg Welch at the iron man everyone thought Dave was going to be top 20 maybe, but he ended up second place. And he credited that performance to feeling super comfortable on his Tetra custom tri bike that we built for him, which is notoriously smooth riding because of their skinny seat stays. Anyway. Um, so the vibration damping also has been studied by insurance companies for truck drivers and airline pilots. So they do these tests to figure out how fatigued people are based on how much vibration they're subject to, and they've shown you know, hands down that it's, that vibration causes fatigue. And there's some scientific details on that that I could get into, but it's, um, probably better to move on here. So we found that, um, aside from the, the fatigue we've found that it had better traction and that allowed for more efficient client. So for a racing cycling. Yes. Fatigue is important, but actually having better traction for getting a better time on climbing is really where the rubber meets the road, literally. Yeah, but for me that the biggest one was layers less know you're going to crash out of the tour de France less often. So being able to corner faster and do faster descents without crashing is as important, if not more important than having more efficiency climbing so that, you know, those three factors less fatigue, better traction, and more stable at high speed are to me the most important they're all three of them make for a faster bike. And we. [00:04:10] Randal R. Jacobs: Oh, go ahead. Um, well I was going to say like on the flats and on the dissents, it's pretty obvious. And I've actually been thinking a lot about this. You know, our listeners will know that I'm a big proponent of high volume tubeless tires on wide rims, right. Run at lower pressures for bigger contact patch. And I'm coming around to this idea that while that is good, that's that suspension that pneumatic suspension also results in varying tracks. [00:04:38] Craig Calfee: Yeah. [00:04:39] Randal R. Jacobs: yeah. [00:04:40] Craig Calfee: So we, we actually measured that, um, most people are like, well, you're going to lose something on the climb. You know, you're going to activate the suspension and lose a percentage of your input, activating suspension. And we thought, okay, you know, there is some of that, but it seems like that's minimal compared to the advantage in climbing. So we understand about the pneumatic suspension and part of it was to go back to the advantage of less rolling resistance. With a smaller tire, higher pressure you know, tires. And so we did an experiment where with a couple of interns from Germany that were really into the data collection side, and we set up a manta with an electric motor on it an e-bike effectively. So we could do a climb and measure the power required to get from the bottom to the top. And we found that w w we did 20 runs. So 10, 10 runs without the suspension and 10 with the suspension, meaning we would put an aluminum slug in where a spring used to be. And that would be the, the locked out version. And all of the runs with the suspension were about 2% of fat, you know, further up the test run than the ones that were locked out, which was kind of surprising. We w the consistency of it was amazing actually. So we found that, you know, he got up the hill with the same amount of energy further up the hill. So that was, um, you know, a graphic representation of how much more efficient it was. And then we wanted to subtract the loss of the, the losses from pedal induced suspension activation. And so we put up, put a a power meter on the crank sexually. That was the, um, the, the what's the really well known power crank meter the name escapes me, but anyway, we put a hub mounted power meter and a crank mounted power meter on the same bike. And we were able to measure the difference between the two and it ended up being about 1%. So we did have a situation where it was more efficient climbing, about 2%. Minus 1% loss of a pedal induced suspension activation. And so net gain of 1%, and that was noticeable by, by riders. They could feel that 1% but that actually matters more in a race where, you know, you actually win by significant amount expending the same amount of energy. So that, that was really the, the revelation that caused me to predict that at some point every bike in the tour de France will have suspension with at least 12 millimeters of travel. [00:07:27] Randal R. Jacobs: I've been just to repeat, like, I've been a big proponent of non suspended bikes. I actually, we Craig and I just you know, kind of tongue in cheek offered our, our bikes of the year, gravel bikes of the year. And the one that I nominated was an old one, the the open up, because it is not going with some of these new fangled you know, attempts to suspension and so on. And I still I still see a place for that, but. As I'm thinking about like a hypothesis as to why you're getting those improvements in efficiency, even on a climb. The thing that comes to mind is a unsprung mass in the amount of VR. You know, you take those the front and the rear axle, and you look at their path through space. And when you have an active suspension when you have a suspension that is built into say the seat stays or the fork, or what have you, as opposed to the, you know, using the tire, you're going to probably get less vertical deflection as the bike is traveling over the road. And even a smooth road is going to have, you know, meaningful amounts of bumps that are going to result in you know, energy losses as the, not just the bike, the unsprung mass of the bike, but the unsprung mass of the body of the rider on the bike as those are moving up and down is that what you suspect as well? Or do you have any data on, like, what is the actual. [00:08:45] Craig Calfee: Yeah, that is the mechanism that's been studied a fair amount, um, and regular suspension in detail was motorcycle. um, the, the so it's already been proven that suspension is faster because you're not raising and lowering the mass of the bike and rider over these minute bumps, which if you add up all of the miniature bumps that you're getting up and over on a race it's like an additional, you know, 20 feet of, of elevation that you have to climb relative to another bike that has that, that the suspension only has a fraction of the weight going up and over the bump, but your body and the rest of the, of the bike is not needing to be lifted up and over. So that's that's physics 1 0 1 and. Whether you do that with new Maddix or with a steel spring it doesn't matter as much, except that you can gain back the rolling resistance losses that you're getting from the history of rubber, as it has to bend and flex up and over that bump steel Springs are way more efficient than rubber as a spring. [00:09:59] Randal R. Jacobs: The rotational inertia as Well, Those, all those little Micheal micro accelerations that you have with a higher volume tire that is inherently higher mass to a, is that a significant factor as [00:10:12] Craig Calfee: I haven't measured that myself, but, um, I mean, it seems to me that would be an issue. Everyone talks about you know, the rotating weight. So, you know, why are people spending so much money on carbon fiber rims? You know, be nice to have, you know, for sprinting and accelerating. It certainly feels that. [00:10:31] Randal R. Jacobs: Hmm, when it occurs to me too. So last time we spoke about, you know, one bikes or at least I use this term to describe the bike that you had come out with. The, I think he called it the adventure, which I described as, you know, the first, the first true one bike. Cause it was an endurance road type geometry, but with clearance for big six 50 B tires is very much my philosophy. There's been this trend in the industry towards gravel bikes, having higher volume, 700 C, um, and people feeling or believing that it's faster. And that makes sense. From the perspective, that was a part of the marketing of 29 or wheels where the attack angle would be less. And so that vertical deflection is happening over a longer distance and a longer amount of time. Um, but you know, with, with an active suspension, you no longer have to, you, you can get that benefit of reducing the vertical deflection and the losses associated with little bumps in the road. Um, without having to go with that bigger tire, which means you can still maintain an endurance road geometry, or even a proper road bike geometry on a bike, that'll pay take big six 50 BS. So that keeps us back in one bite territory, which I like as well. [00:11:37] Craig Calfee: Yep. Absolutely. That's that's a really good argument for slightly smaller wheels. [00:11:44] Randal R. Jacobs: Yeah. Would you, so you're doing this with a spring any damping in that system? [00:11:50] Craig Calfee: Well, the carbon fiber stays are kind of self damping. We do too. We basically have a hybrid spring. The carbon chain stays and the steel spring up at the seat up above the brake brake brake bridge. Um, that's so we're getting both and the carbon stays, tend to absorb a lot of the, the resonance of the steel. do have, um, a rubber bottom out a plug, but that's about as much damping as we get. And by the way, we found that elastomers make a pretty bad spring for, for bicycles. And I know that's been been proven years and years ago on the earliest mountain bike suspensions, but a lot of the bike companies are coming up with these rode bikes that have rubber bits in them that try to simulate some level of suspension. But if you ever ride one of those and you hit a pretty rough bump, the rubber stiffens up, and it actually becomes useless on the, where counts the most, the, you know, the more the heavier hits it's it's we measured that. And it was definitely not as good as the steel. [00:13:02] Randal R. Jacobs: And this is true even of like more advanced, a less Americ materials that have come out since the battle days of, you know, 40 millimeter mountain bike forks with. [00:13:11] Craig Calfee: Yeah, there hasn't been a ton of improvement on that. There's been different viscosities used, but, um, the problem is the molecules can't get out of their own way. Fast enough, you know, that's, that's what it boils down to. [00:13:26] Randal R. Jacobs: Well, and then there's the issue of temperature sensitivity to which I believe that there's been some improvement made in that, you know, better than I would. [00:13:33] Craig Calfee: That's probably the one area of improvement. Yup. [00:13:36] Randal R. Jacobs: Yeah. So just for the audience in cold temperatures, these materials tend to become firmer in hot temperatures. They tend to be more compliance. And so you don't have consistency across temperature ranges, even though your body is, is not changing the terrain isn't changing. So that's another problem with the last tumors as a suspension of. Um, and then there's the issue of certain companies who will remain nameless having technologies where they started off by putting in an elastomer somewhere in, in the the chain, the suspension chain of the frame itself. And then ultimately, because it was all marketing anyways, they just bolted things on and actually compromise the frame in doing so. Yeah. Um, they, they rhymed with a certain minty candy called certs that anyways, we'll, we'll continue on there, but a lot of, a lot of that sort of marketing fortunately I don't know what your opinion is on that one. Do you see more or less of that sort of a marketing who he, these days. [00:14:32] Craig Calfee: Well, that's been going on since day one. I mean, that's, that's, you know, that's part of the business and, you know, it's as much about fashion as it is about technology. So the marketing guys are needing to sell what's popular. You know, suspension starts getting talked about as a possibly good thing, then they're going to, you know, try every trick in the book to, to hype it up by doing actual measurements. And studies is really fun because you can actually see serious gains in in the efficiency of the bike and for races like the tour de France, where three weeks of racing, you know, 1% means you win. You know, it's interesting. I don't brag too much about building bikes for Greg , Greg Lamond, but you know, at one point he was looking at our gussets and thinking, you know, you should really trim those gussets down just a little bit smaller because they're less aerodynamic. And this is the biggest it's at the bottom bracket, which were set kind of sideways to the wind. And I've felt like arguing with him a little bit about, you know, this really not much, it's just, you know, this tiniest little bit, but here's a guy who won the tour by eight seconds. How do you argue with that guy? Oh no. So 1% is huge in that route. [00:15:57] Randal R. Jacobs: Yeah, Yeah. Yeah. Um, Hmm.…

    Full show notes at the publisher

    Isabel King - gravel ambassador, racer and queen of color Jan 25, 2022
    Show notes

    This week we sit down with the queen of color herself, Isabel King to learn about her road to gravel from smashing Los Angeles area QOM's. Isabel King Web | Instagram Join The Ridership Support the Podcast Automated transcription, please excuse the typos: Isabel King [00:00:00] Craig Dalton: Hello and welcome to the gravel ride podcast. I'm your host Craig Dalton. This week on the podcast, we've got one of gravel's most colorful athletes, literally and figuratively. In a few moments, I'm going to be joined by Isabel king. , Santa Monica, California professional gravel athlete, who got her start in a very interesting way. The conversation actually builds nicely on our conversation from last week with Chris Schroeder and the interesting way in which athletes are creating opportunities for themselves to race professionally in this new world of gravel. I personally became aware of Isabel through our shared relationship with Panner racer tires and I became a big fan of observing what she was doing via Instagram. As he's all has got a kind word to share and is always rocking some powerful kit out there on the trails, in and around Los Angeles. She had a breakout year in the dirt in 2021 and is really looking forward to smashing some things in 2022. With all that said let's jump right into my interview with Izzy. Isabel, welcome to the show. [00:01:09] Isabel King: Thank you. Thank you so much for having me., . [00:01:11] Craig Dalton: I'm excited to dig in with you a little bit, as we always start out on the gravel ride podcast, let's just find out a little bit about how you got into cycling in the first place. [00:01:20] Isabel King: Ooh, always a good question to start with. Cycling was definitely not not my plan since a child. I kind of joked that I fell into this haphazardly five years ago. I could not have predicted I would be where I am today. Uh, so I grew up as a. Uh, as a soccer player, uh, I played soccer through college. So I was a D one soccer player at Columbia and I graduated as a psychology major and jumped into the world of finance. So I worked on the trading floor at UBS for four years in New York city. Before deciding that I wanted to get a more formal, uh, finance education. So I applied to business schools ended up getting into UCLA Anderson. And moved to Los Angeles and kind of in that process and the summer before starting business school I quit my job in, in December and started school in August. And so I had a few months and I signed up for a triathlon clipped into a road bike for the first time. And that kind of spiraled me down into this endurance world which has been fun. So I am now chasing a dream that I didn't know I had, uh, about two years ago. [00:02:23] Craig Dalton: Amazing. It's so funny how that like break as a adults going back to business school, whether it's, you know, for your MBA or graduate school, it just create does create a pocket of exploration for a lot of people. I find. [00:02:35] Isabel King: Yeah, it was great. I don't think, I mean, I stayed active. I ran marathons after, because it's kind of hard. You finished soccer and it's hard. You play for a few, a few, uh, you know, maybe a few months in those co-ed leagues in New York city where you're just waiting for your ACL to get torn by someone that used to be fast. Uh, so I switched to running because it was easier. You just need to choose in yourself. And then when I had the time to kind of. To have a bike. And I moved back to San Francisco and kind of discovered all of those roads in the, in the, you know, the places I would hike and go as a child, I can now ride my bike. And that was kind of, that was kind of it for me. I knew I'd found something that I was going to do kind of forever, which is fun. [00:03:18] Craig Dalton: That's awesome. So you were back in the bay area before you went down to Los Angeles. [00:03:22] Isabel King: I grew up in San Francisco, so I grew up right outside of the Presidio. And then, uh, was now I'm ended up, I stayed in Los Angeles. Again, you grow up with the Southern California versus Northern California bias. But then you spend a little bit of time in LA and you're like, Ooh, this is pretty nice down here. [00:03:39] Craig Dalton: Yeah. Yeah. As the listener knows, I spend a lot of time down in Topanga because my wife's family grew up down there and I used to be really down on LA. I thought as the cliche goes, LA sucks for riding. And then you actually explore those canyons around Malibu and Topanga. And you're just like, this is world-class. [00:03:55] Isabel King: Like I'm incredibly thankful that UCLA is, is kind of west side. And I fell into that and I met some people riding and they were able to show me where to go. And, you know, from friends that knew me before riding or people that have grown up in LA they're like, where are you? I'm like, honestly, I'm not very far from your house. You just wouldn't really go there. If you don't ride a bike or a motorcycle or have a, you know, a super fancy car and to go rip up these canyons, which just fine. [00:04:21] Craig Dalton: Yeah. That's exactly it. So you, you discovered triathlon, you brought it down to school with you, and then it sounds like you sort of discovered you were fast. [00:04:29] Isabel King: It's a good way to put it. I, uh, did my first triathlon. About a week before school started was the Donner triathlon up in Tahoe and I won and I was like, wow, I like being fast at things. That was great. And I ended up doing, I did the Boulder half iron man the day before school started. So I showed up to business school with the Sharpie number on my calf and the iron man bracelet, like still on. So I was kind of immediately labeled as this like triathlon girl, which was very interesting because I was super new at it, but. I continued to train through school. Had a coach and balance a 20 hour training week with full-time school and full-time networking, which is, uh, going to the bar with your friends. And then, uh, in my, I think it was my fourth half iron man. I won the Maryland half Ironman, which qualifies you to compete as a professional. So then I was kind of posed with an interesting juxtaposition of do I, you know, Continue my MBA I'd finish one year of school. Do I finish that or do I kind of jump into this new world that I'd discovered? For me, you know, any career that has to do with your body can be taken away at any moment. So I wanted to make sure that I finished my MBA before kind of jumping into any pro athletic world. And so finished my MBA in the end of 2019. And the plan was to compete as a pro triathlete, uh, unfortunately, or fortunately the pandemic kind of had different plans for that. So I had to kind of take a step back And say, okay, I'm going to be a pro athlete in, in a time with no racing. What does that mean? And what do I actually want out of this? And that is kind of how I stumbled into, uh, the off-road and, and bikes. Only gravel world of racing. [00:06:09] Craig Dalton: And when you were thinking about approach triathlete career, obviously you've got to finance that and you would be on your way up at that point. Had you kind of cobbled together enough resources to cover your expenses, et cetera, and go for it. [00:06:23] Isabel King: So it's an interesting, I think I had saved from working in finance in New York. I had saved kind of enough. I was like, I'll give myself a year and you know, that's then if it's not working out enough, I haven't managed to get sustainable sponsorship. Then I'll have to go back to working, uh, a regular person job. But it was interesting in the pandemic or I guess for me approaching it, like you go to business school and you learn, uh, originally I was there to learn. I wanted to transition to FinTech, but then also got to live a bit into the brand building classes and marketing and things like that. And so, in the world I am now. You can, you can actually use that to build a brand. So now I kind of treat myself as a business entity and who is Isabelle king. And what are the, what are the brands that I want to work with and partner with to kind of make this a sustainable career going forward. [00:07:14] Craig Dalton: So you got out of business school in 2019 and tending to kind of hit some more of that. More of the professional triathletes seen nothing's happening, you can't race. do you do? [00:07:24] Isabel King: Uh, so I. Came clean with myself that I was a terrible swimmer. I was only good at triathlon because when I came out of the water, nine, 10 minutes back, I could catch people when I was on the bike. So I kind of said, okay, maybe if I actually just focus on only cycling I could be pretty good at this and see where that takes me. So originally the goal in 2020 was to, was to try and sign with the, uh, pro road racing team. I use Strava kind of as my competitive outlet. So in 2020 I got over a thousand QoS, which people have heard me talk about this before, but it was fun. I just went out. I had a little quarantine bevel. I'm lucky. LA is such an incredible place for cycling that there's always someone faster than you. And so my little group of Guy friends was always ready to try and help me pay and go for these big climbs in Malibu. So I got a little bit of attention with that and talk to a few road teams. And, and the biggest feedback I got was like, we need you to do some sort of racing. And I was like, well, there is no racing. I'm a cat five, according to USA cycling. That's still true today. But I was actually able to get some traction just saying, okay, if I take a step back. And look at this new private tier model that people are doing in the gravel world. Maybe I can combine the strength that I have on the road with the little bit of mountain bike and technical ability that I have, and, and, uh, maybe go at it on my own and race the races I want to race and build the brand that I want to build and wear bright orange and see how that works out. [00:08:51] Craig Dalton: Yeah, that's probably something we should drill into this idea of your brand. And I think I became aware of you through the Panorai racer program [00:08:59] Isabel King: Yeah. [00:09:00] Craig Dalton: and we got connected there and I was like, how is it that I've never seen this woman before? Because I totally appreciate your social media. [00:09:09] Isabel King: Oh, [00:09:09] Craig Dalton: just fun and colorful. It makes me want to get out and ride, but that's sort of your hallmark now. Like I always feel like you're wearing a different rad, colorful Jersey to express yourself. Do you want to get into that a little bit? And how you think about that as part of your, your branding? [00:09:23] Isabel King: Yeah, absolutely. I feel like coming as someone that's relatively new in the cycling world. One thing that I definitely noticed was once, once your fast, you kind of are this like untouchable fast being that wears all black and looks really good. And doesn't really say hi to people necessarily. And that shows up to the group bride and keeps her sunglasses on the whole time and things like that. And I. I think that's something that I want to change in cycling and that you can be a little bit unconventional. You can kind of wear the, the crazy colors. And my favorite color happened to be orange, even before I started riding bikes, which is turned into a, kind of a fun version of the brand, but also just the ability. Like I think I approach this so much as it's such a unique opportunity in my life where I get to go and ride my bike. Twenty-five to 30 hours a week. And if I can share that excitement and hopefully inspire others to get on their bike, maybe when they don't feel like it, or, you know, when they're having a bad day. I think that's really important. I think with social media, a lot of people only share. The good stuff and put out this presence of, you know, my life is flawless. And so I think it's important to share both sides of those. You know, the smiles are always real, but then also like the other side of it too I think is really important. And then also In the female cycling world. I think there are the pro female women that ride in the Peloton that are so fast and they post what the team wants them to post. And they don't really, you know, outside of that brand, they don't really do much because they're focusing on racing and that's great. And then the other side kind of the polar end of the spectrum is the women that You have a lot of followers, but are also very well endowed and don't normally ride their bike, their helmets usually off and are posed very nicely on the bike and that's fine. But I think there's somewhere in the middle ground where you can be a female cyclist and you can be really fast, but you can also be engaging on social media. And I think that little middle ground is kind of where I've found success within this. [00:11:20] Craig Dalton: Nice. Yeah. I can imagine that's sort of a, it's just a delicate balance there. Right? Cause people love to hate on you and not you specifically, but one in social media. Yeah. So it's tough. It's tough being sort of a public figure regardless of what you're doing. [00:11:34] Isabel King: I was thinking it's fine, honestly. Like I think it's super flattering. If you get made fun of, and like a cycling meme account, you're like, oh, I don't know. Again, like the moment that you take yourself too seriously, you have to take a step back and be like, we're riding around in stretchy clothing on like ridiculously expensive, tiny bikes. Like this is silly. Like if you take yourself that seriously, like please take a step back and, and, Uh, you know, have a [00:12:01] Craig Dalton: I think, I think even more so when we're riding in the dirt too, to add that element of just being a kid getting dirty. So you're smashing up smashing, going uphill, killing a queen of the mountains around the Los Angeles area. Who gave you the first gravel bike to go try Sullivan Ridge or whatever your first ride was. [00:12:20] Isabel King: Yeah. It took me a while. Actually. I was floundering kind of made mid end of 2020 being like a, got really fast and I haven't gotten any traction. I feel like what I'm doing is cool. And I, you know, I did a few challenges where I raised a lot of money. I raised, uh, over $20,000 for the UCLA health health care fund by riding my bike for three days in a row. And then I partnered. With Reggie Miller and Castelli, we did, uh, say their names Jersey, which ended up the proceeds, went to equal justice initiative. And though we raised over $70,000. So I felt like I was trying to do more with the bike, but still was kind of spinning my wheels and not getting traction. So I. Resorted back to the business school side of the things I made it a PowerPoint deck and said, this is who I am. This is what I would want to do if you gave me a bike. And I reached out on LinkedIn, uh, to the president of canyon and said hi, this is me. Uh, more, it was also just kind of like he's had a really interesting career just in the bike industry. And so I was curious if there was any chance that he answered the email. Maybe just to see if he had any advice for me. And if you ever have the opportunity to meet Blair Karch, he's a wonderful human being. He answered pretty immediately and said, here's my cell phone. Give me a call. We talked on Friday afternoon for an hour and it wasn't even to get, you know, a canyon partnership. It was. just, he gave me a book recommendation and he connected me with a…

    Full show notes at the publisher

    Chris Schroeder - Gravel Racer and Gravel Team Manager Jan 18, 2022
    Show notes

    This week we sit down with Dimond Factory Racing's Chris Schroeder. We learn about Chris' transition from professional triathlon to that of a gravel racer. We also look at his decision to start a racing team versus continuing as a privateer. Dimond Factory Racing Instagram Join The Ridership Support the Podcast Automated transcription, please excuse the typos: Hello and welcome to the gravel ride podcast. I'm your host Craig Dalton. This week on the podcast, we've got Colorado based professional gravel racer, Chris Schroeder. Chris is not only a racer, but he's also the manager of the diamond factory racing team. His path to gravel racing was from that of, uh, as a professional triathlete. Interestingly, I learned that the private tier model, as it's known. It's something that's quite prevalent. In the triathlon world. But Chris didn't really want to take that model forward. He really wanted to build. Uh, professional gravel racing team. So i thought it'd be interesting to get his perspective to hear about his experience in the gravel world thus far and more importantly hear about what his plans are for 2022 with his teammate. Before we jump in, I need to thank this. Week's sponsor athletic greens. Athletic greens is literally a product I use every single day. I've been an athletic greens user for many years prior to actually starting the podcast. I really didn't have the time nor inclination to take a bunch of pills and vitamins. To get some of my nutritional basis covered. So when I found out about ag one, was stoked about how convenient it was going to be for me. So what's in this stuff with one delicious scoop of athletic greens, you're absorbing 75 high quality vitamins minerals, whole food sorts, superfoods, probiotics, and APTA Jens. To help start your day. Right? The special blend of ingredients supports gut health, your nervous system, your immune system, your energy recovery focus and aging. All the things. This is particularly poignant at this moment, as I just got back from two back-to-back 90 mile days. Uh, riding down to Santa Cruz, California, and backup to my home in Marin county. Athletic greens. I brought one of their travel packs with me to take on Sunday morning as I got up and started my second big day. And when I got home, I blasted another one simply because I needed a little bit more. I knew I'd run the battery down pretty darn low with this weekends, riding and athletic greens all is gives me the confidence that I'm at least covering my baselines nutritionally. Build on top of that a healthy diet and you've got yourself a winning combination Athletic greens will cost you less than $3 a day. You're investing in your health and it's cheaper than your cold brew habit. Athletic greens as over 7,505 star reviews. And is recommended by professional athletes. Right now it's time to reclaim your health and arm your immune system with convenient daily nutrition. Especially in the middle of cold and flu season. It's just one scoop in a cup of water every day. That's it. No need for millions of different pills and supplements to look out for your health. To make it easy. Athletic greens is going to give you a free one year supply of immune supporting vitamin D and five free travel packs with your first purchase. All you have to do is visit athletic greens.com/the gravel ride. Again, that's athletic greens.com/the gravel ride to take ownership of your health and pick up the ultimate daily nutritional insurance. Would that business out of the way. Let's jump right in to my interview with Chris. [00:03:15] Craig Dalton: Chris welcome to the show. [00:03:17] Chris Schroeder: Great to be here [00:03:18] Craig Dalton: Yeah, I'm excited when you reached out to me, I think this is going to be a really interesting discussion. The starting point for all my conversations is always to get a little bit of your background as a cyclist, how you came into the sport and how ultimately you started riding. [00:03:31] Chris Schroeder: So it's hard to say how I came into cycling. I came into cycling and triathlon at the same time. About 15 years old, my family relocated from Telluride, Colorado to New York city. And at the time New York city is has a giant cycling presence. Contrarians are a very big thing there. They do a lot of races in central park and the surrounding area. So as a way for me to find something to do when I was there, I started running of those, the local cycling club. It wasn't a race club. It was. A website or a form, or you just go on there and they say, right, we have a group ride every couple of mornings and you know, it was fun. I had a old road bike and then the same exact time I was getting into that, I also equally wanting to get into triathlon. So that was a great like way for me to start training and start preparing. And as that grew, I did a couple of bike races and at the same time training for triathlons eventually just kept going into triathlon and kept doing more of the. And at the same time, I was always a very big fan of cycling. I would always watch the races. I would always follow the riders and that was like a restaurant, but I was a fan of cycling. So I just kept coming up and triathlon. Eventually I went to college at university of Colorado here in Boulder, and Boulder is a great community for pro triathletes and cyclists of all kinds. It's just a Mecca for it. And I ended up eventually becoming a professional in, I believe 20. 15 though, like end of 2015, I went on and raised five years, professional triathlete, you know, I got a lot out of it. I traveled the world. I raised on like six different continents. I met amazing people like throughout the whole way, but at the end of the five years, I just, I wasn't content with where my career was and I wasn't really, I think it plateaued. I just wasn't moving. I wasn't getting the results. I needed to continue doing the sport. And I just stagnated and going into 2020, I had this mindset and I had signed up for, to just a way out. I was like, know, I'm going to finish this sport by dating my first full iron man. So I went to go, the plan was all right, I'm going to go do Ironman, New Zealand. And a couple months before that there was a race in Oklahoma called the Oklahoma gravel Gower at the time. And I kinda knew that I got this sport gravel. I really liked it because it reminded me a lot of the monuments in cycling, like cargo bay, the dynamic just of the just bad-ass like let's get out here and get dirty and strongest man wins kind of mentality. So I knew going into that race. Not really know anything. I was like, didn't have a gravel bag and laid that on my road bike with the biggest tires I could fit. And I ended up having a great race. So early on, I got a new move of Ted king. We went on for a while. Like I eventually got dropped. I got picked up by two guys behind and then ended up beating both of them in the sprint to finish second. So all of a sudden I had this hot iron. What I use then to go on to use, to create this transition to gravel. [00:06:48] Craig Dalton: Interesting. Yeah, for me, it's not super surprising that you had a great cycling experience in New York. It might've been. 10 years ago before I knew a bunch of people from New York and realized like how great the scene is there for a road racing. It's maybe a little surprising that you got into triathlons out of New York, but obviously there's a lot of great road running there and triathlon. There's a few good races in that neck of the woods. [00:07:14] Chris Schroeder: Yeah, we'll come back to that. When we started talking about diamond and stuff like that. But when I, because I had that result in Oklahoma, when I went on to do Ironman New Zealand, you know, the race went, it was a good way to end the closing. On my drunker and made me feel very contented, very like, all right. I did everything I could and I got what I got out of it. And then I'm probably the only person in the world who this positive came from. COVID where the world's shut down. As soon as like, before I even left New Zealand, the world's start shutting down. It's a miraculous, I even got able to leave the country, the roads shut down. All these triathlon races got canceled. All of a sudden the sport that I don't want to do isn't happening anymore. But I have all these sponsors that need me to do something. So when I was able to do with all my current sponsors to say, Hey, I can't race a triathlon because there was no triathlons. I can go do another gravel race where I already had this giant buzz, this giant pop and a good result or this year. So with that, I was able to just start doing gravel races with all my sponsors, still supporting me. They were just supporting me as they were and things just went well. And then. Mid 2020, we just started really committing to, we're just going to start a team. We're not going to have minimums or anything like that. We're just going to work at the end of the January 1st. We're announcing this team and it can be big, small, whatever, wherever we land, we're going to go with. You know, we were very fortunate in having Jared come on, board, our videographer, and he really is the only reason this team was able to exist in 2021. I did Belgium wall fried Cedar city September, 2020. He came out made. What I think still to this day is his best piece of work, which was a video covering my experience. There really just raw showing that experience. I was able to then all these sponsors I was talking to at the time that were like, eh, we don't really know. I was able to send them this video. And it was like talking to a different person. All of a sudden the conversation went my way and we were able to close a couple of deals with at the time Kenda tires and vision components, both of which were huge. I, we desperately needed both of those contracts. Eventually a hybrid clothing and Lin helmets came on board to help us out. And then we had. We had the support. We had the writers, we had a product, which was our video production and assets, and that kind of launched us into 2021. [00:09:48] Craig Dalton: That's a super interesting story about how athletes need to package themselves up in order to be successful in this. I want to go back a little bit to that transition period. And as a quick side note, I also retired as a triathlete from Ironman, New Zealand, not professional, not fast, but it was my last iron man. And I agree. It's something, if you get into the sport of triathlon, regardless of the level, having that iron man experience is just it. I think it is very similar to these epic gravel events. We're just getting across the finish line can be such a magic. Thing in your history that everybody should try to do it. [00:10:24] Chris Schroeder: Yeah, absolutely. I I it's just like in the moment I was just miserable. Like I was. A lot of stuff, like just in my life and where I was my career, but I, because I finished it. I can just, I don't have to look back cause I'm just I'm so much more content than I would be. Had I not done that? [00:10:41] Craig Dalton: Yeah, a hundred percent. I'm also curious, you know, it sounds like the 72.2 distance was a strong suit of yours. Then you moved up to the Ironman distance. When you started going to these long gravel events, what kind of parallels did you see from the endurance and mental strength required to complete an Ironman or a long distance triathlon to what you were seeing at the gravel of. [00:11:04] Chris Schroeder: Well, it's hard. I don't think 70.3 is Ironman. You can draw a lot of parallel parallels, the 70.3 distance. Not as much because those races are dynamic. You are racing. An Ironman is a lot more similar in the sense you. Not raising, you're all just trying to finish. And one of you happens to finish before the others. Definitely the mental attitude that you have in an Ironman of when you're just trying to finish it. I've nothing else to do today. If always I keep putting one foot in front of the other, I will eventually cross the line. That's like the unfortunate gravel mentality for a lot of these 10 plus hour events or. Even the comment, I feel like 125 miles is the common distance for gravel. You're still looking at a seven hour day for the fast guys. Like it's a lot of time out there versus the 71 is really four hours. Most professionals go way under that now. So it's hard to say, like, I think honestly my biggest asset transitioning to gravel was just the amount of time has been being a fan of cycling and why. Professional races and just admiring the tactics. [00:12:09] Craig Dalton: Yeah, I think one of the things that has come up on a number of occasions and in my own personal experience with triathlon was just. Stuff's going to go wrong and you just gotta move forward and get on with it. And the events are long enough that you can have a really bad nutrition or hydration moment and come back around. If you just fuel the system in the right. [00:12:28] Chris Schroeder: absolutely. I think in gravel, The gravel, you can get a little more catastrophic with your failures. You're talking about just breaking everything is breakable on a gravel race tire wheel by Canterbury's yourself. Like it's all up in the air. In a triathlon you can bonk or you can get a flat like those. Those are really the two bad scenarios and the gravel is just, you just don't know what's going to go wrong. There's so many options. [00:12:50] Craig Dalton: Yeah, a hundred [00:12:51] Chris Schroeder: Like for Unbound with, you have to basically be able to rebuild your entire bike is rather than. [00:12:57] Craig Dalton: Speaking of Unbound. So 2020, you sort of get your gravel legs underneath you. You have the good fortune of having sponsors that are willing to pivot with you because gravel was going off more than the triathlon world was you fell in love with it 2021, you register from Unbound. And there's a great video of your experience there. So why don't you talk to us about your experience? What was your. Expectations and goals going in and how did it play? [00:13:22] Chris Schroeder: Unmanned was definitely a little emotional. Like it's a, like, it's a lot that goes into it. It's really very parallel to the Ironman world championships in terms of prestige And just the hype around it. I definitely went into it a little ignorant of just like what's about to happen. I made some just blatant mistakes, but ultimately I just wasn't trained properly for it. And completely just melted in the, it's hard to describe for people that haven't done Unbound it's 200 miles. I think the winter did like 10 hours and 30 minutes this year. So you, would expect this, the race to play out in something in a way that would, you know, relate to someone trying to pace themselves for about long race. In the beginning, like three hours of Unbound are just you're on the pace [00:14:20] Craig Dalton: Did you enter that race thinking I'm going to stick with the lead group? You know, this is going to be my tactic in those first three. [00:14:27] Chris Schroeder: yeah, I just didn't do a couple blatant things. I didn't preview enough of the course. I preview maybe the first like 20 miles and then like mile like 25, we entered this just ridiculous Doubletrack section. Bodies everywhere. And it's like, as a easy tactical error, I was 58 wheels back when we entered that section. And this is probably my biggest advice for anyone racing gravel is it's not ever the ef…

    Full show notes at the publisher

    Craig Calfee - Bicycle Industry pioneer Jan 11, 2022
    Show notes

    This week Randall sits down with bicycle industry pioneer, Craig Calfee. Craig has been an industry leader for decades with his work on the Calfee brand and many other collaborations throughout the industry. You cannot find someone more knowledgable about carbon (or bamboo) as a material. Calfee Designs Website Join The Ridership Support the Podcast Automated Transcription, please excuse the typos: Craig Calfee Randall [00:00:00] [00:00:04] Randall: Welcome to the gravel ride podcast. I'm your host Randall Jacobs and our guest today is Craig Calfee. Craig is the founder of Calfee Design, the innovator behind the first full carbon frames to race in the tour de France, the originator of numerous technologies adopted throughout the cycling industry, and on a personal note has been a generous and consistent supporter of my own entrepreneurial journey. I am grateful to have him as a friend, and I've been looking forward to this conversation for some time. So with that, Craig, Calfee welcome to the podcast. [00:00:32] Craig Calfee: Oh, thank you. Nice to be here. [00:00:34] Randall: So, let's start with, what's your background, give your own story in your own words. [00:00:40] Craig Calfee: Well, I've always written bikes. I mean, as a kid, that's how I got around. And that's, as you become an older child, you, uh, find your independence with moving about the world. And a bicycle of course, is the most efficient way to do that. And later on, I was a bike messenger in New York when I went to college and that kind of got me into bike design as much for the, uh, desire to make a bike that can withstand a lot of abuse. And later on, I used a bike for commuting to work at a job, building carbon fiber racing boats. And during that time I crashed my bike and needed a new frame. So I thought I'd make a frame at a carbon fiber, uh, tubing that I had been making at my. [00:01:29] Randall: my job [00:01:30] Craig Calfee: So this is back in 1987, by the way. So there wasn't a, there were no YouTube videos on how to make your own carbon bike. So I pretty much had to invent a way to build the bike out of this tubing. And at the time there were aluminum lugged bikes, and I just, I knew already aluminum and carbon fiber don't get along very well. So you have to really do a lot of things to, to accommodate that. And the existing bikes at the time were, uh, I would say experimental in the fact that they were just trying to glue aluminum to carbon and it really wasn't working. [00:02:05] So I came up with my own way and built my first bike and it turned out really well. And a lot of friends and, and bike racers who checked out the bikes that I I really should keep going with it. So I felt like I discovered carbon fiber as a, as the perfect bicycle material before anyone else. Uh, and actually, uh, right at that time, Kestrel came out with their first bike, uh, the K 1000 or something. Um, anyway that was uh, that was in 87, 88. And, uh, I felt like I should really, you know give it a go. So I moved out to California and started a bike company. [00:02:48] Randall: So just to be clear, you were actually making the tubes, you weren't buying tubes. So you're making the tubes out of the raw carbon or some pre-printed carbon. then you came up with your own way of, uh, joining those tubes. [00:03:01] Craig Calfee: Yeah. I worked on a braiding machine, so it was actually a a hundred year old, uh, shoelace braider, uh, from back in Massachusetts. There's a lot of old textile machinery braiding is, uh, you know, your braided socks and, you know, nylon rope is braided. So this is a 72 carrier braider, which means 72 spools of carbon fiber. [00:03:25] Are winding in and out braiding this tube and you just run it back and forth through this braider a few times. And now you have a thick enough wall to, uh, I developed a and tape wrapping method at that job and came up with a pretty decent way to make a bicycle tube. So that was kind of the beginning of that. [00:03:47] Uh, and since then I've explored all kinds of methods for making tubing, mainly through subcontractors who specialize in things like filament winding and roll wrapping. And, uh, pultrusion, you know, all kinds of ways to make tubing. And that does relate to kind of an inspiration for me, where I realized that, uh, carbon fiber, you know, high performance composites are relatively young and new in the world of technology where metals are, you know, the metals have been around since the bronze age. [00:04:21] I mean, literally 5,000 years of development happened with metals, carbon fiber, uh, high-performance composites have only really been around since world war two. So that's a huge gap in development that hasn't happened with composites. So that to me felt like, oh, there's some job security for a guy who likes to invent things. So that was my, a kind of full force to get me to really focus on composite materials. [00:04:51] Randall: Were you that insightful in terms of the historical context at the time, or is that kind of a retro or retrospective reflection? [00:04:58] Craig Calfee: I think, I don't know. I think I may have read about that. Um, I a friend who had a library card at MIT and I pretty much lived there for a few weeks every, uh, master's thesis and PhD thesis on bicycles that they had in their library. And I think somewhere in there was a, uh, a topic on composites and comparing the technology of composites. [00:05:23] So. I probably that from some reading I did, or maybe I did invent that out of thin air. I don't remember, uh, nonetheless, uh, the fact of it is, you know, not, not a whole lot of mental energy has been put into coming up with ways of processing fiber and resin compared to metal. So to me that just opens up a wide world of, of innovation. [00:05:49] Randall: Um, and so the first frame was that, um, you're creating essentially uniform tubes and then mitering them, joining them, wrapping them as you do with your current bamboo frames or what was happening there. [00:06:02] Craig Calfee: Uh, it's more like the, uh, our, our carbon fiber frames were laminating carbon fabric in metal dyes, and those are not mitered tubes fitting into the dyes. And that's, that's a process. I got my first patent on. And it, uh, so in the process of compressing the carbon fabric against the tubes, you're you end up with these gussets in what is traditionally the parting line of a mold and rather than trim them off completely. [00:06:31] I, I use them as reinforcing ribs. [00:06:35] Randall: Yep. Okay. So that explains the, the, that distinctive element that continues with your, um, some of your, uh, to tube, uh, currently [00:06:48] Craig Calfee: them [00:06:49] the hand wrapping technique from that you currently see on the bamboo bikes came from developing a tandem frame, or basically a frame whose production numbers don't justify the tooling costs. Um, so that's hand wrapped. That's just literally lashed to. Yeah. And a point of note, there is I was a boy scout growing up and, uh, there's this merit badge called pioneering merit badge. [00:07:16] And I really enjoyed pioneering merit badge because it involved lashing row, uh, poles together with rope and the pro you had to do with this one project. And I did a tower and it was this enormous structure that went just straight up like a flagpole, but it was it involved a bunch of tetrahedrons, uh, stacked on top of each other and lashed together. [00:07:41] you know, culminating in a pole that went up. I don't remember how tall it was, but it was, it was really impressive. And everybody, you know, thought, wow, this is incredible of poles and some rope. And here we have this massive tower. So anyway, I was into things together since a young age. [00:08:00] And so I immediately came up with the, uh, the last tube concept. Which is where the, now the bamboo bikes are. course there's a specific pattern to the wrapping, but, um, the concept is basically using fiber to lash stuff together, [00:08:16] Randall: When it immediately brings to mind, what's possible with current generation of additive production techniques. Uh, whereas before you could make small components and then lash them together to create structures that otherwise aren't manufacturable. [00:08:31] Now you'd be able to say, print it out though. Those, you know, those printed out materials don't have the performance characteristics of a, you know, a uni directional carbon of the sword that you're working with currently. [00:08:42] Craig Calfee: right? [00:08:43] Randall: Um, so we've gone deep nerd here. We're going to, I'm going to pull us out and say, okay, uh, lots of time for this. [00:08:49] This is going to be a double episode. Uh, so next up, let's talk about those frames, uh, saw their big debut. [00:08:59] Craig Calfee: Yeah. So, um, we started making custom geometry for a. In 1989 and selling them and so big and tall, and that the idea of custom geometry frames was, uh, you know, pretty esoteric. And the pro racers were, we're using a lot of custom frames. So Greg Lamond, uh, was in search of a carbon fiber, uh, custom frame builder in, uh, 1990. [00:09:31] And, uh, no one really was doing it. We were literally the only company making custom carbon frame bikes. So he, uh, found out about us, uh, effectively discovered us, shall we say? And, uh, it didn't take long for him to order up 18 of them for his, his, uh, team Z, uh, teammates. He was sponsoring his own team with a Lamont brand. [00:09:56] So we didn't have to sponsor him. He basically paid for the frame. Put his name on them. And, and, uh, now we're now we're on the defending champions, a tour de France team. So that was a huge break obviously. And it was really a pleasure working with Greg and getting to know the demands of the pro Peloton, uh, you know, that really launched us. [00:10:21] So that was, uh, quite a splash. And, you know, it always is a great answer to the question. Oh, so who rides your bike kind of thing. you know, you have the, the full-on best one in the world at the time. So, so that was a fun thing. [00:10:39] Randall: And the name of the company at the time was, [00:10:41] Craig Calfee: Uh, carbon frames. [00:10:42] Randall: yeah. So anyone wanting [00:10:45] dig up the historical record, [00:10:47] Craig Calfee: is this too generic? You know, the other to what you're talking about, the adventure bikes. Yeah, we had to stop. I mean, carbon frames is a terrible name because everyone started talking about all carbon fiber frames as carbon frames. So we thought that was cool, you know, like Kleenex, you know, uh, and then we came up with the adventure bike, you know, with very early, uh, adventure bike. [00:11:11] And it was just, we called it the adventure bike. And now there's a classification called adventure bikes that, you know, so, um, I think we, we, we went too generic on how we named our models. [00:11:26] Randall: I've drawn from the rich tradition, a tradition of Greek, you know, uh, philosophy for naming my own companies in the like, [00:11:35] Craig Calfee: Yeah. [00:11:36] Randall: uh, um, and then next up, uh, so you've worked with Greg Lamond on those frames. Carbon frames is up and running and you're, you're producing custom geo frames and you're starting to get at some scale at this point and some notoriety. [00:11:52] next up you were working on your bamboo bikes. When we talk about that [00:11:57] Craig Calfee: Yeah, that was say, I'm kind of at the, at the time, it was just a way to get publicity. So at the Interbike trade show, you'd have a few creative people making some wacky bikes out of beer cans or, or other just weird things just to get attention, just, just to send the media over to your booth, to take a picture of some wacky thing that you're doing. [00:12:20] yeah, we got to do something like that to get, get some attention. And the, uh, so I was looking around for some PVC pipe. Maybe I was going to do a PVC pipe bike, and I wasn't really sure, but I knew that we could just wrap any tube. Make a bike out of literally anything. So, um, my dog was playing with some bamboo behind the shop. [00:12:42] Uh, she was a stick dog, so she loved to clamp onto a stick and you could swing her around by the, by the sticks. She's a pit bull and lab mix. Anyway, we ran out of sticks. Uh, cause we only had one little tree in the back, but we did have some bamboos. So she came up with a piece of bamboo and I was her around by it, expecting it to break off in her mouth because I just wasn't aware of how strong bamboo was, but it turned out it was really quite strong. [00:13:12] And I said, oh, let's make a bike out of this stuff. And sure enough, uh, the bike was, uh, quite a attention getter. It got the quarter page and bicycling magazine so that, you know mission accomplished on that front. And, but the bike itself rode really well. [00:13:29] Randall: well [00:13:30] Craig Calfee: Um, when I wrote my first carbon bike, uh, the very first ride on my very first carbon bike, I was struck by how smooth it was. [00:13:38] It had this vibration damping that was, you know, just super noticeable and, and that really kind of lit a fire under my butt thinking, wow, this is really cool. When I built my first bamboo bike, I had that same feeling again, how smooth It was It was amazing for its vibration damping. So, uh, I knew I was onto something at that point. [00:14:02] Uh, that first bike was a little too flexy, but, uh, the second bike I built was significantly stiffer and was an actual, real rideable bike. So, uh, from that point, uh, we just started building a few here and there and it was still a novelty item until about, uh, 1999, 2000. When a few people who had been riding them, or like, I want another one, I I want to know mountain bike this time. [00:14:29] So as it was just starting to get known and, uh, we started selling them through dealers. And I mean there's a lot of stories I can tell on how that evolved and how people started actually believing that a bamboo bike could actually exist in the world. So it took a while though. [00:14:49] Randall: I think there's a whole thread that we could tug on maybe in a subsequent episode where we focus just on the bamboo bike revolution. [00:14:57] Craig Calfee: Yeah. Yeah. That's um, there's a lot of, lot of stuff going on there. I'm actually writing my second book on history of the bamboo bike, because there's so many interesting angles to it, particularly in the. [00:15:10] Randall: in Africa [00:15:12] I'm struck by the juxtaposition of this bleeding edge. Uh, you know, high-tech material that you pioneered and then this going back to one of the most basic building materials, uh, that we have building bikes out of that. And in fact, um, on the one hand, there's this, this extreme, know, difference in terms of the technology ization of each material. [00:15:34] But on the other hand, there's a parallel the sense that like carbon, in tubes is best, uh, you know, generally, uh, when it's you need to write. Yeah, with maybe some cross fibers in order to prevent, prevent it from separating. And bamboo also has that characteristic of having, you know, you need directional fibers that are bonded together by some, uh, you know, some other material in, in the, in the bamboo [00:15:58] Craig Calfee: Yeah. Yeah, it's very, there's a lot of similarities. I mean, bamboo is amazing just because it grows out of the ground and tubular for. And it grows a new, huge variety of diameters and wealth thicknesses. So if you're looking for tubing, I mean, you don…

    Full show notes at the publisher

    Craig Calfee - Bicycle Industry pioneer Jan 11, 2022
    Show notes

    This week Randall sits down with bicycle industry pioneer, Craig Calfee. Craig has been an industry leader for decades with his work on the Calfee brand and many other collaborations throughout the industry. You cannot find someone more knowledgable about carbon (or bamboo) as a material. Calfee Designs Website Join The Ridership Support the Podcast Automated Transcription, please excuse the typos: Craig Calfee Randall [00:00:00] [00:00:04] Randall: Welcome to the gravel ride podcast. I'm your host Randall Jacobs and our guest today is Craig Calfee. Craig is the founder of Calfee Design, the innovator behind the first full carbon frames to race in the tour de France, the originator of numerous technologies adopted throughout the cycling industry, and on a personal note has been a generous and consistent supporter of my own entrepreneurial journey. I am grateful to have him as a friend, and I've been looking forward to this conversation for some time. So with that, Craig, Calfee welcome to the podcast. [00:00:32] Craig Calfee: Oh, thank you. Nice to be here. [00:00:34] Randall: So, let's start with, what's your background, give your own story in your own words. [00:00:40] Craig Calfee: Well, I've always written bikes. I mean, as a kid, that's how I got around. And that's, as you become an older child, you, uh, find your independence with moving about the world. And a bicycle of course, is the most efficient way to do that. And later on, I was a bike messenger in New York when I went to college and that kind of got me into bike design as much for the, uh, desire to make a bike that can withstand a lot of abuse. And later on, I used a bike for commuting to work at a job, building carbon fiber racing boats. And during that time I crashed my bike and needed a new frame. So I thought I'd make a frame at a carbon fiber, uh, tubing that I had been making at my. [00:01:29] Randall: my job [00:01:30] Craig Calfee: So this is back in 1987, by the way. So there wasn't a, there were no YouTube videos on how to make your own carbon bike. So I pretty much had to invent a way to build the bike out of this tubing. And at the time there were aluminum lugged bikes, and I just, I knew already aluminum and carbon fiber don't get along very well. So you have to really do a lot of things to, to accommodate that. And the existing bikes at the time were, uh, I would say experimental in the fact that they were just trying to glue aluminum to carbon and it really wasn't working. [00:02:05] So I came up with my own way and built my first bike and it turned out really well. And a lot of friends and, and bike racers who checked out the bikes that I I really should keep going with it. So I felt like I discovered carbon fiber as a, as the perfect bicycle material before anyone else. Uh, and actually, uh, right at that time, Kestrel came out with their first bike, uh, the K 1000 or something. Um, anyway that was uh, that was in 87, 88. And, uh, I felt like I should really, you know give it a go. So I moved out to California and started a bike company. [00:02:48] Randall: So just to be clear, you were actually making the tubes, you weren't buying tubes. So you're making the tubes out of the raw carbon or some pre-printed carbon. then you came up with your own way of, uh, joining those tubes. [00:03:01] Craig Calfee: Yeah. I worked on a braiding machine, so it was actually a a hundred year old, uh, shoelace braider, uh, from back in Massachusetts. There's a lot of old textile machinery braiding is, uh, you know, your braided socks and, you know, nylon rope is braided. So this is a 72 carrier braider, which means 72 spools of carbon fiber. [00:03:25] Are winding in and out braiding this tube and you just run it back and forth through this braider a few times. And now you have a thick enough wall to, uh, I developed a and tape wrapping method at that job and came up with a pretty decent way to make a bicycle tube. So that was kind of the beginning of that. [00:03:47] Uh, and since then I've explored all kinds of methods for making tubing, mainly through subcontractors who specialize in things like filament winding and roll wrapping. And, uh, pultrusion, you know, all kinds of ways to make tubing. And that does relate to kind of an inspiration for me, where I realized that, uh, carbon fiber, you know, high performance composites are relatively young and new in the world of technology where metals are, you know, the metals have been around since the bronze age. [00:04:21] I mean, literally 5,000 years of development happened with metals, carbon fiber, uh, high-performance composites have only really been around since world war two. So that's a huge gap in development that hasn't happened with composites. So that to me felt like, oh, there's some job security for a guy who likes to invent things. So that was my, a kind of full force to get me to really focus on composite materials. [00:04:51] Randall: Were you that insightful in terms of the historical context at the time, or is that kind of a retro or retrospective reflection? [00:04:58] Craig Calfee: I think, I don't know. I think I may have read about that. Um, I a friend who had a library card at MIT and I pretty much lived there for a few weeks every, uh, master's thesis and PhD thesis on bicycles that they had in their library. And I think somewhere in there was a, uh, a topic on composites and comparing the technology of composites. [00:05:23] So. I probably that from some reading I did, or maybe I did invent that out of thin air. I don't remember, uh, nonetheless, uh, the fact of it is, you know, not, not a whole lot of mental energy has been put into coming up with ways of processing fiber and resin compared to metal. So to me that just opens up a wide world of, of innovation. [00:05:49] Randall: Um, and so the first frame was that, um, you're creating essentially uniform tubes and then mitering them, joining them, wrapping them as you do with your current bamboo frames or what was happening there. [00:06:02] Craig Calfee: Uh, it's more like the, uh, our, our carbon fiber frames were laminating carbon fabric in metal dyes, and those are not mitered tubes fitting into the dyes. And that's, that's a process. I got my first patent on. And it, uh, so in the process of compressing the carbon fabric against the tubes, you're you end up with these gussets in what is traditionally the parting line of a mold and rather than trim them off completely. [00:06:31] I, I use them as reinforcing ribs. [00:06:35] Randall: Yep. Okay. So that explains the, the, that distinctive element that continues with your, um, some of your, uh, to tube, uh, currently [00:06:48] Craig Calfee: them [00:06:49] the hand wrapping technique from that you currently see on the bamboo bikes came from developing a tandem frame, or basically a frame whose production numbers don't justify the tooling costs. Um, so that's hand wrapped. That's just literally lashed to. Yeah. And a point of note, there is I was a boy scout growing up and, uh, there's this merit badge called pioneering merit badge. [00:07:16] And I really enjoyed pioneering merit badge because it involved lashing row, uh, poles together with rope and the pro you had to do with this one project. And I did a tower and it was this enormous structure that went just straight up like a flagpole, but it was it involved a bunch of tetrahedrons, uh, stacked on top of each other and lashed together. [00:07:41] you know, culminating in a pole that went up. I don't remember how tall it was, but it was, it was really impressive. And everybody, you know, thought, wow, this is incredible of poles and some rope. And here we have this massive tower. So anyway, I was into things together since a young age. [00:08:00] And so I immediately came up with the, uh, the last tube concept. Which is where the, now the bamboo bikes are. course there's a specific pattern to the wrapping, but, um, the concept is basically using fiber to lash stuff together, [00:08:16] Randall: When it immediately brings to mind, what's possible with current generation of additive production techniques. Uh, whereas before you could make small components and then lash them together to create structures that otherwise aren't manufacturable. [00:08:31] Now you'd be able to say, print it out though. Those, you know, those printed out materials don't have the performance characteristics of a, you know, a uni directional carbon of the sword that you're working with currently. [00:08:42] Craig Calfee: right? [00:08:43] Randall: Um, so we've gone deep nerd here. We're going to, I'm going to pull us out and say, okay, uh, lots of time for this. [00:08:49] This is going to be a double episode. Uh, so next up, let's talk about those frames, uh, saw their big debut. [00:08:59] Craig Calfee: Yeah. So, um, we started making custom geometry for a. In 1989 and selling them and so big and tall, and that the idea of custom geometry frames was, uh, you know, pretty esoteric. And the pro racers were, we're using a lot of custom frames. So Greg Lamond, uh, was in search of a carbon fiber, uh, custom frame builder in, uh, 1990. [00:09:31] And, uh, no one really was doing it. We were literally the only company making custom carbon frame bikes. So he, uh, found out about us, uh, effectively discovered us, shall we say? And, uh, it didn't take long for him to order up 18 of them for his, his, uh, team Z, uh, teammates. He was sponsoring his own team with a Lamont brand. [00:09:56] So we didn't have to sponsor him. He basically paid for the frame. Put his name on them. And, and, uh, now we're now we're on the defending champions, a tour de France team. So that was a huge break obviously. And it was really a pleasure working with Greg and getting to know the demands of the pro Peloton, uh, you know, that really launched us. [00:10:21] So that was, uh, quite a splash. And, you know, it always is a great answer to the question. Oh, so who rides your bike kind of thing. you know, you have the, the full-on best one in the world at the time. So, so that was a fun thing. [00:10:39] Randall: And the name of the company at the time was, [00:10:41] Craig Calfee: Uh, carbon frames. [00:10:42] Randall: yeah. So anyone wanting [00:10:45] dig up the historical record, [00:10:47] Craig Calfee: is this too generic? You know, the other to what you're talking about, the adventure bikes. Yeah, we had to stop. I mean, carbon frames is a terrible name because everyone started talking about all carbon fiber frames as carbon frames. So we thought that was cool, you know, like Kleenex, you know, uh, and then we came up with the adventure bike, you know, with very early, uh, adventure bike. [00:11:11] And it was just, we called it the adventure bike. And now there's a classification called adventure bikes that, you know, so, um, I think we, we, we went too generic on how we named our models. [00:11:26] Randall: I've drawn from the rich tradition, a tradition of Greek, you know, uh, philosophy for naming my own companies in the like, [00:11:35] Craig Calfee: Yeah. [00:11:36] Randall: uh, um, and then next up, uh, so you've worked with Greg Lamond on those frames. Carbon frames is up and running and you're, you're producing custom geo frames and you're starting to get at some scale at this point and some notoriety. [00:11:52] next up you were working on your bamboo bikes. When we talk about that [00:11:57] Craig Calfee: Yeah, that was say, I'm kind of at the, at the time, it was just a way to get publicity. So at the Interbike trade show, you'd have a few creative people making some wacky bikes out of beer cans or, or other just weird things just to get attention, just, just to send the media over to your booth, to take a picture of some wacky thing that you're doing. [00:12:20] yeah, we got to do something like that to get, get some attention. And the, uh, so I was looking around for some PVC pipe. Maybe I was going to do a PVC pipe bike, and I wasn't really sure, but I knew that we could just wrap any tube. Make a bike out of literally anything. So, um, my dog was playing with some bamboo behind the shop. [00:12:42] Uh, she was a stick dog, so she loved to clamp onto a stick and you could swing her around by the, by the sticks. She's a pit bull and lab mix. Anyway, we ran out of sticks. Uh, cause we only had one little tree in the back, but we did have some bamboos. So she came up with a piece of bamboo and I was her around by it, expecting it to break off in her mouth because I just wasn't aware of how strong bamboo was, but it turned out it was really quite strong. [00:13:12] And I said, oh, let's make a bike out of this stuff. And sure enough, uh, the bike was, uh, quite a attention getter. It got the quarter page and bicycling magazine so that, you know mission accomplished on that front. And, but the bike itself rode really well. [00:13:29] Randall: well [00:13:30] Craig Calfee: Um, when I wrote my first carbon bike, uh, the very first ride on my very first carbon bike, I was struck by how smooth it was. [00:13:38] It had this vibration damping that was, you know, just super noticeable and, and that really kind of lit a fire under my butt thinking, wow, this is really cool. When I built my first bamboo bike, I had that same feeling again, how smooth It was It was amazing for its vibration damping. So, uh, I knew I was onto something at that point. [00:14:02] Uh, that first bike was a little too flexy, but, uh, the second bike I built was significantly stiffer and was an actual, real rideable bike. So, uh, from that point, uh, we just started building a few here and there and it was still a novelty item until about, uh, 1999, 2000. When a few people who had been riding them, or like, I want another one, I I want to know mountain bike this time. [00:14:29] So as it was just starting to get known and, uh, we started selling them through dealers. And I mean there's a lot of stories I can tell on how that evolved and how people started actually believing that a bamboo bike could actually exist in the world. So it took a while though. [00:14:49] Randall: I think there's a whole thread that we could tug on maybe in a subsequent episode where we focus just on the bamboo bike revolution. [00:14:57] Craig Calfee: Yeah. Yeah. That's um, there's a lot of, lot of stuff going on there. I'm actually writing my second book on history of the bamboo bike, because there's so many interesting angles to it, particularly in the. [00:15:10] Randall: in Africa [00:15:12] I'm struck by the juxtaposition of this bleeding edge. Uh, you know, high-tech material that you pioneered and then this going back to one of the most basic building materials, uh, that we have building bikes out of that. And in fact, um, on the one hand, there's this, this extreme, know, difference in terms of the technology ization of each material. [00:15:34] But on the other hand, there's a parallel the sense that like carbon, in tubes is best, uh, you know, generally, uh, when it's you need to write. Yeah, with maybe some cross fibers in order to prevent, prevent it from separating. And bamboo also has that characteristic of having, you know, you need directional fibers that are bonded together by some, uh, you know, some other material in, in the, in the bamboo [00:15:58] Craig Calfee: Yeah. Yeah, it's very, there's a lot of similarities. I mean, bamboo is amazing just because it grows out of the ground and tubular for. And it grows a new, huge variety of diameters and wealth thicknesses. So if you're looking for tubing, I mean, you don…

    Full show notes at the publisher

    Craig Calfee - Bicycle Industry pioneer Jan 11, 2022
    Show notes

    This week Randall sits down with bicycle industry pioneer, Craig Calfee. Craig has been an industry leader for decades with his work on the Calfee brand and many other collaborations throughout the industry. You cannot find someone more knowledgable about carbon (or bamboo) as a material. Calfee Designs Website Join The Ridership Support the Podcast Automated Transcription, please excuse the typos: Craig Calfee Randall [00:00:00] [00:00:04] Randall: Welcome to the gravel ride podcast. I'm your host Randall Jacobs and our guest today is Craig Calfee. Craig is the founder of Calfee Design, the innovator behind the first full carbon frames to race in the tour de France, the originator of numerous technologies adopted throughout the cycling industry, and on a personal note has been a generous and consistent supporter of my own entrepreneurial journey. I am grateful to have him as a friend, and I've been looking forward to this conversation for some time. So with that, Craig, Calfee welcome to the podcast. [00:00:32] Craig Calfee: Oh, thank you. Nice to be here. [00:00:34] Randall: So, let's start with, what's your background, give your own story in your own words. [00:00:40] Craig Calfee: Well, I've always written bikes. I mean, as a kid, that's how I got around. And that's, as you become an older child, you, uh, find your independence with moving about the world. And a bicycle of course, is the most efficient way to do that. And later on, I was a bike messenger in New York when I went to college and that kind of got me into bike design as much for the, uh, desire to make a bike that can withstand a lot of abuse. And later on, I used a bike for commuting to work at a job, building carbon fiber racing boats. And during that time I crashed my bike and needed a new frame. So I thought I'd make a frame at a carbon fiber, uh, tubing that I had been making at my. [00:01:29] Randall: my job [00:01:30] Craig Calfee: So this is back in 1987, by the way. So there wasn't a, there were no YouTube videos on how to make your own carbon bike. So I pretty much had to invent a way to build the bike out of this tubing. And at the time there were aluminum lugged bikes, and I just, I knew already aluminum and carbon fiber don't get along very well. So you have to really do a lot of things to, to accommodate that. And the existing bikes at the time were, uh, I would say experimental in the fact that they were just trying to glue aluminum to carbon and it really wasn't working. [00:02:05] So I came up with my own way and built my first bike and it turned out really well. And a lot of friends and, and bike racers who checked out the bikes that I I really should keep going with it. So I felt like I discovered carbon fiber as a, as the perfect bicycle material before anyone else. Uh, and actually, uh, right at that time, Kestrel came out with their first bike, uh, the K 1000 or something. Um, anyway that was uh, that was in 87, 88. And, uh, I felt like I should really, you know give it a go. So I moved out to California and started a bike company. [00:02:48] Randall: So just to be clear, you were actually making the tubes, you weren't buying tubes. So you're making the tubes out of the raw carbon or some pre-printed carbon. then you came up with your own way of, uh, joining those tubes. [00:03:01] Craig Calfee: Yeah. I worked on a braiding machine, so it was actually a a hundred year old, uh, shoelace braider, uh, from back in Massachusetts. There's a lot of old textile machinery braiding is, uh, you know, your braided socks and, you know, nylon rope is braided. So this is a 72 carrier braider, which means 72 spools of carbon fiber. [00:03:25] Are winding in and out braiding this tube and you just run it back and forth through this braider a few times. And now you have a thick enough wall to, uh, I developed a and tape wrapping method at that job and came up with a pretty decent way to make a bicycle tube. So that was kind of the beginning of that. [00:03:47] Uh, and since then I've explored all kinds of methods for making tubing, mainly through subcontractors who specialize in things like filament winding and roll wrapping. And, uh, pultrusion, you know, all kinds of ways to make tubing. And that does relate to kind of an inspiration for me, where I realized that, uh, carbon fiber, you know, high performance composites are relatively young and new in the world of technology where metals are, you know, the metals have been around since the bronze age. [00:04:21] I mean, literally 5,000 years of development happened with metals, carbon fiber, uh, high-performance composites have only really been around since world war two. So that's a huge gap in development that hasn't happened with composites. So that to me felt like, oh, there's some job security for a guy who likes to invent things. So that was my, a kind of full force to get me to really focus on composite materials. [00:04:51] Randall: Were you that insightful in terms of the historical context at the time, or is that kind of a retro or retrospective reflection? [00:04:58] Craig Calfee: I think, I don't know. I think I may have read about that. Um, I a friend who had a library card at MIT and I pretty much lived there for a few weeks every, uh, master's thesis and PhD thesis on bicycles that they had in their library. And I think somewhere in there was a, uh, a topic on composites and comparing the technology of composites. [00:05:23] So. I probably that from some reading I did, or maybe I did invent that out of thin air. I don't remember, uh, nonetheless, uh, the fact of it is, you know, not, not a whole lot of mental energy has been put into coming up with ways of processing fiber and resin compared to metal. So to me that just opens up a wide world of, of innovation. [00:05:49] Randall: Um, and so the first frame was that, um, you're creating essentially uniform tubes and then mitering them, joining them, wrapping them as you do with your current bamboo frames or what was happening there. [00:06:02] Craig Calfee: Uh, it's more like the, uh, our, our carbon fiber frames were laminating carbon fabric in metal dyes, and those are not mitered tubes fitting into the dyes. And that's, that's a process. I got my first patent on. And it, uh, so in the process of compressing the carbon fabric against the tubes, you're you end up with these gussets in what is traditionally the parting line of a mold and rather than trim them off completely. [00:06:31] I, I use them as reinforcing ribs. [00:06:35] Randall: Yep. Okay. So that explains the, the, that distinctive element that continues with your, um, some of your, uh, to tube, uh, currently [00:06:48] Craig Calfee: them [00:06:49] the hand wrapping technique from that you currently see on the bamboo bikes came from developing a tandem frame, or basically a frame whose production numbers don't justify the tooling costs. Um, so that's hand wrapped. That's just literally lashed to. Yeah. And a point of note, there is I was a boy scout growing up and, uh, there's this merit badge called pioneering merit badge. [00:07:16] And I really enjoyed pioneering merit badge because it involved lashing row, uh, poles together with rope and the pro you had to do with this one project. And I did a tower and it was this enormous structure that went just straight up like a flagpole, but it was it involved a bunch of tetrahedrons, uh, stacked on top of each other and lashed together. [00:07:41] you know, culminating in a pole that went up. I don't remember how tall it was, but it was, it was really impressive. And everybody, you know, thought, wow, this is incredible of poles and some rope. And here we have this massive tower. So anyway, I was into things together since a young age. [00:08:00] And so I immediately came up with the, uh, the last tube concept. Which is where the, now the bamboo bikes are. course there's a specific pattern to the wrapping, but, um, the concept is basically using fiber to lash stuff together, [00:08:16] Randall: When it immediately brings to mind, what's possible with current generation of additive production techniques. Uh, whereas before you could make small components and then lash them together to create structures that otherwise aren't manufacturable. [00:08:31] Now you'd be able to say, print it out though. Those, you know, those printed out materials don't have the performance characteristics of a, you know, a uni directional carbon of the sword that you're working with currently. [00:08:42] Craig Calfee: right? [00:08:43] Randall: Um, so we've gone deep nerd here. We're going to, I'm going to pull us out and say, okay, uh, lots of time for this. [00:08:49] This is going to be a double episode. Uh, so next up, let's talk about those frames, uh, saw their big debut. [00:08:59] Craig Calfee: Yeah. So, um, we started making custom geometry for a. In 1989 and selling them and so big and tall, and that the idea of custom geometry frames was, uh, you know, pretty esoteric. And the pro racers were, we're using a lot of custom frames. So Greg Lamond, uh, was in search of a carbon fiber, uh, custom frame builder in, uh, 1990. [00:09:31] And, uh, no one really was doing it. We were literally the only company making custom carbon frame bikes. So he, uh, found out about us, uh, effectively discovered us, shall we say? And, uh, it didn't take long for him to order up 18 of them for his, his, uh, team Z, uh, teammates. He was sponsoring his own team with a Lamont brand. [00:09:56] So we didn't have to sponsor him. He basically paid for the frame. Put his name on them. And, and, uh, now we're now we're on the defending champions, a tour de France team. So that was a huge break obviously. And it was really a pleasure working with Greg and getting to know the demands of the pro Peloton, uh, you know, that really launched us. [00:10:21] So that was, uh, quite a splash. And, you know, it always is a great answer to the question. Oh, so who rides your bike kind of thing. you know, you have the, the full-on best one in the world at the time. So, so that was a fun thing. [00:10:39] Randall: And the name of the company at the time was, [00:10:41] Craig Calfee: Uh, carbon frames. [00:10:42] Randall: yeah. So anyone wanting [00:10:45] dig up the historical record, [00:10:47] Craig Calfee: is this too generic? You know, the other to what you're talking about, the adventure bikes. Yeah, we had to stop. I mean, carbon frames is a terrible name because everyone started talking about all carbon fiber frames as carbon frames. So we thought that was cool, you know, like Kleenex, you know, uh, and then we came up with the adventure bike, you know, with very early, uh, adventure bike. [00:11:11] And it was just, we called it the adventure bike. And now there's a classification called adventure bikes that, you know, so, um, I think we, we, we went too generic on how we named our models. [00:11:26] Randall: I've drawn from the rich tradition, a tradition of Greek, you know, uh, philosophy for naming my own companies in the like, [00:11:35] Craig Calfee: Yeah. [00:11:36] Randall: uh, um, and then next up, uh, so you've worked with Greg Lamond on those frames. Carbon frames is up and running and you're, you're producing custom geo frames and you're starting to get at some scale at this point and some notoriety. [00:11:52] next up you were working on your bamboo bikes. When we talk about that [00:11:57] Craig Calfee: Yeah, that was say, I'm kind of at the, at the time, it was just a way to get publicity. So at the Interbike trade show, you'd have a few creative people making some wacky bikes out of beer cans or, or other just weird things just to get attention, just, just to send the media over to your booth, to take a picture of some wacky thing that you're doing. [00:12:20] yeah, we got to do something like that to get, get some attention. And the, uh, so I was looking around for some PVC pipe. Maybe I was going to do a PVC pipe bike, and I wasn't really sure, but I knew that we could just wrap any tube. Make a bike out of literally anything. So, um, my dog was playing with some bamboo behind the shop. [00:12:42] Uh, she was a stick dog, so she loved to clamp onto a stick and you could swing her around by the, by the sticks. She's a pit bull and lab mix. Anyway, we ran out of sticks. Uh, cause we only had one little tree in the back, but we did have some bamboos. So she came up with a piece of bamboo and I was her around by it, expecting it to break off in her mouth because I just wasn't aware of how strong bamboo was, but it turned out it was really quite strong. [00:13:12] And I said, oh, let's make a bike out of this stuff. And sure enough, uh, the bike was, uh, quite a attention getter. It got the quarter page and bicycling magazine so that, you know mission accomplished on that front. And, but the bike itself rode really well. [00:13:29] Randall: well [00:13:30] Craig Calfee: Um, when I wrote my first carbon bike, uh, the very first ride on my very first carbon bike, I was struck by how smooth it was. [00:13:38] It had this vibration damping that was, you know, just super noticeable and, and that really kind of lit a fire under my butt thinking, wow, this is really cool. When I built my first bamboo bike, I had that same feeling again, how smooth It was It was amazing for its vibration damping. So, uh, I knew I was onto something at that point. [00:14:02] Uh, that first bike was a little too flexy, but, uh, the second bike I built was significantly stiffer and was an actual, real rideable bike. So, uh, from that point, uh, we just started building a few here and there and it was still a novelty item until about, uh, 1999, 2000. When a few people who had been riding them, or like, I want another one, I I want to know mountain bike this time. [00:14:29] So as it was just starting to get known and, uh, we started selling them through dealers. And I mean there's a lot of stories I can tell on how that evolved and how people started actually believing that a bamboo bike could actually exist in the world. So it took a while though. [00:14:49] Randall: I think there's a whole thread that we could tug on maybe in a subsequent episode where we focus just on the bamboo bike revolution. [00:14:57] Craig Calfee: Yeah. Yeah. That's um, there's a lot of, lot of stuff going on there. I'm actually writing my second book on history of the bamboo bike, because there's so many interesting angles to it, particularly in the. [00:15:10] Randall: in Africa [00:15:12] I'm struck by the juxtaposition of this bleeding edge. Uh, you know, high-tech material that you pioneered and then this going back to one of the most basic building materials, uh, that we have building bikes out of that. And in fact, um, on the one hand, there's this, this extreme, know, difference in terms of the technology ization of each material. [00:15:34] But on the other hand, there's a parallel the sense that like carbon, in tubes is best, uh, you know, generally, uh, when it's you need to write. Yeah, with maybe some cross fibers in order to prevent, prevent it from separating. And bamboo also has that characteristic of having, you know, you need directional fibers that are bonded together by some, uh, you know, some other material in, in the, in the bamboo [00:15:58] Craig Calfee: Yeah. Yeah, it's very, there's a lot of similarities. I mean, bamboo is amazing just because it grows out of the ground and tubular for. And it grows a new, huge variety of diameters and wealth thicknesses. So if you're looking for tubing, I mean, you don…

    Full show notes at the publisher

    Previous 1 9 10 11 12 13 20 Next

    Related Podcasts

    DiveFilm HD Video

    1

    DiveFilm HD Video Outdoor
    Outside Podcast

    2

    Outside Podcast Games & Hobbies
    Survivalist.com: Survival | Preparedness | Prepper – www.Survivalist.com

    3

    Survivalist.com: Survival | Preparedness | Prepper – www.Survivalist.com Government & Organizations
    Out There

    4

    Out There Outdoor
    She Explores

    5

    She Explores Outdoor
    The Dirtbag Diaries

    6

    The Dirtbag Diaries Outdoor
    footer-logo

    Contact Us

    Toll Free: 844-670-7747

    Links

    • Home
    • Top Charts
    • Networks
    • Apps
    • Independents Podcasts
    • Podcast Advertising
    • Podcast News
    • Contact Us
    • About Us
    • Analytics & Insights

    Stay Connected

      Privacy, Terms of Use & Our Code of Ethics Protecting Content Creators Copyrights