The Gravel Ride. A cycling podcast

*/ ?>

Latest Episodes:

Lily Williams - Olympian USA Cycling / Rally Cycling Jul 27, 2021

Show notes

This week we sit down with Olympian Lily Williams who will represent the United States on the Women's Pursuit team. While track cycling is not our typical fare, Lily has a cyclocross background (and a maybe a gravel future). In addition to representing our country, Lily is the Communications Director of Bike Index. Lily Williams Instagram USA Cycling Olympic Track Schedule Support the podcast Automated Full Episode Transcription (please excuse the typos): Craig Dalton: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to the gravel ride podcast. I'm your host Craig Dalton. [00:00:10] This week on the podcast, we've got Olympian, Lily Williams, joining the show. Lily's got a bad-ass background as a cyclist particularly as a cyclocross racer after a career as a collegiate runner. [00:00:24]Team. Lily races professionally on the road with the Rally Cycling, [00:00:28]And caught the attention of USA cycling and was brought to Colorado Springs for some performance testing on the track. I'll let her explain what happened next but a pretty amazing journey from someone who just found cycling after college. [00:00:41]Like many professional cyclists, Lily also holds down a full-time job, full disclosure. We work together at the nonprofit bike index. And we'll talk a little bit about that. And the mission bike index is on. [00:00:54]Before we get started, I needed to thank this week sponsor Athletic Greens, who also happens to be a sponsor of USA cycling. [00:01:04]Athletic greens is N S F certified for sport. Meaning they take their product seriously. Consistently testing and auditing it to ensure what's on the label is actually in the pouch. As you can imagine, that's critically important for Olympians and professional athletes and gives us average athletes the confidence to know what's going in the body. [00:01:27]I'm actually drinking my post ride athletic grains right now, my personal way to prepare it. I like two big heaping scoops of ice, and then a heaping spoonful of Athletic Greens. [00:01:39]Athletic Greens is a complex blend of 75 vitamins minerals, and whole food sourced ingredients. Athletic greens is green powder engineered to help fill the nutritional gaps in your diet. Their daily drink improves everyday performance by addressing the four pillars of health energy recovery gut health and immune support [00:02:00]I've said it before. I'm a little bit embarrassed at times as to how poor my diet can slide when I get stressed out. But with athletic greens being packed with for recovery. Probiotics and [00:02:12] Digestive enzymes for gut health, vitamin C and zinc [00:02:17]For immune support, it's just an easy all-in-one solution to help your body meet its nutritional needs. And boy, I could use all the help I can get. My program, I'd take one scoop every morning, and then I'll typically do two glasses on days where I've depleted myself through a big gravel ride. It's keto, paleo vegan. Dairy-free and gluten-free. All in a drank with less than one gram of sugar that tastes great over ice . [00:02:45]So, whether you're looking to boost your energy levels, support your immune system or address gut health. Now's the perfect time to try athletic greens for yourself. Simply visit athletic greens.com/the growl ride to claim my special offer today and receive free. K-12 wellness bundle with your first purchase. [00:03:05] That's up to a one-year supply of vitamin D as an added value. When you try, they're delicious and comprehensive daily, all in one drink. You'd be hard pressed to find a more comprehensive nutritional bundle anywhere else. Again, that's athletic greens.com/the gravel ride. Would that business of supporting our sponsors behind us. Let's jump right in to my conversation with Olympian Lily Williams. lily. Welcome to the show. [00:03:31]Lily Williams: [00:03:31] Hey Craig. Thanks for having me [00:03:33]Craig Dalton: [00:03:33] Our weekly calls. Aren't enough , Lily and I work together at the nonprofit bike index. [00:03:38] So we are in frequent communication. [00:03:40]Lily Williams: [00:03:40] It's true, but nonetheless, I'm happy to be here. [00:03:42] Craig Dalton: [00:03:42] And in the context of this conversation, huge congratulations for being selected to the Olympic team for the United States. [00:03:49]Lily Williams: [00:03:49] Thank you. Yeah. So exciting. How many people have told me I'm fulfilling a dream and I'm just like, forget how [00:03:56] cool it is. [00:03:57] Craig Dalton: [00:03:57] I think it's absolutely amazing. And I'm one of those people who constantly feels the need to remind you what an amazing journey you've been on. [00:04:04]Yeah. Yeah. I appreciate it. Thank you. For the [00:04:08] listener. I want to be clear, unfortunately, this is not the Olympic gravel cycling team. [00:04:12]Lily Williams: [00:04:12] Not yet, but what might [00:04:15] Craig Dalton: [00:04:15] happen? [00:04:15] This is the Olympic pursuit team on the track. [00:04:19]Lily Williams: [00:04:19] Yes. Yeah. Which is about as far from a gravel race as you can get. But that doesn't mean I don't have a passion for all things off-road as well. [00:04:27] Craig Dalton: [00:04:27] Is this true? And we will get to this Lilly. There is a tie into gravel cycling and dirt riding. For Lily. And we'll get to that. [00:04:36] In fact, where I wanted to start the conversation. I know you were a division one runner in college and transitioned and went into grad school, found the bike, but why don't we start there on your journey about where you started riding the bike, what you started getting excited about. And then we have to, for the listener, figure out a way to show them how you ended up. [00:04:56] Being on the Olympic track team of all things. [00:04:58]Lily Williams: [00:04:58] Yeah. That might be worth some explaining. Yeah, so I started, I got my first bike as an adult, I think my sophomore year of undergrad. Maybe no, it was my freshman year of undergrad and I just had a bike that I was riding around campus. And then I was running track and cross country for my university. [00:05:14] And anytime we had an off week, I would ride my bike around town. So I definitely really enjoyed. Riding the bike, didn't wear a helmet or flip flops. Wasn't a cyclist, just was a person, bobbing around getting to the grocery store. And then I moved to Chicago for graduate school. [00:05:30]And that's where I really started writing. I started working at a bike shop and got a road bike and pimped out my computer so that I could get to and from class, which was downtown and I lived in the north. Northern part of the city. Yeah, I really started as a commuter, even though I was an athlete before in a different sport. [00:05:48]And then, because I was working at a bike shop, my coworkers coerced me into trying to become an athlete again. So that's where it started in 2016. So as I [00:05:58] Craig Dalton: [00:05:58] understand it, your collegiate running career was. Maybe challenging for you in terms of what you thought it was going to be and what it turned out to be. [00:06:07] Were you looking for another athletic career at this point? [00:06:11]Lily Williams: [00:06:11] No, my collegiate sport experience was pretty terrible. And a lot of it was just like me not knowing how to balance being basically a full-time athlete, which is what division one athletes are and getting, going to school and not failing. [00:06:24]And I also just yeah, socially, there's so much fun things to do at school. And you just find a way to prioritize the thing you like the least, which at that time was sports for me. So I was pretty ready to not be an athlete ever again. When I went to grad school and that lasted all of four months before I found cycling. [00:06:42] Craig Dalton: [00:06:42] So you found cycling at the, you said in the context of a road bike, but quickly discovered that cyclocross was an interesting part of the sport for you. [00:06:51]Lily Williams: [00:06:51] Yeah because I was living in Chicago people may know that the Chicago cyclocross cup is a pretty big deal. There's a bunch, I can't remember how many, 10 ish race, weekends, all within driving distance of city throughout the course of the fall and winter. [00:07:06] And the money's really good and the it's just a really good time. And the competition is pretty good. And quickly started borrowing a demo bike from the shop that I was worked on. Shop that I was working at and was taking it to cyclocross practices in town just after class, just to, I don't know, just hang out with people and have a good time. [00:07:28]And then doing the races to have a good time as well. And I started having a lot of success in cyclocross, at least locally which kind of motivated me to want to try to do some of the bigger events as well. [00:07:40] Craig Dalton: [00:07:40] And so you use that. Springboard. And I think you had mentioned there was a really good shop in Chicago land that leans into cyclocross and had a good team that you could get to be a part of. [00:07:52]Lily Williams: [00:07:52] Yeah, 100%. So initially I was aware being at Turin bicycle, which is a shop in Ravenswood, which is the neighborhood I was living in. And then I did just a season with the club team based out of Turin which is called bonkers cycling. And. Then I also did a few races for Northwestern because I was at Northwestern for school and was able to compete and cross and on the road and cyclocross for Northwestern. [00:08:18]And then that would have been in winter of 20 16, 20 17. And then my partner and I at the time wanted to do a full UCI calendar of cyclocross the next winter. And we approached the pony shop, which is in Evanston, which is the city immediately north. Of Chicago and they hooked us up. [00:08:37] They helped us get all of our equipment and kit and race entries and everything. And we just jumped head first into a full UCI calendar. And it was awesome. Like we got on some podiums and we got UCI points and it was really fun, a fun program. That's still going by the way and is growing. [00:08:54]Craig Dalton: [00:08:54] That's amazing. I remember getting introduced to the idea that Lily is going to be my coworker. And I think our coworker south basically said that Lily she's based in Chicago, she likes, she races. Cyclocross was very sort of unassuming introduction. Given what you've subsequently been able to achieve. [00:09:15]Lily Williams: [00:09:15] Yeah Seth and I, we just bombed around town and had a good time. And at the point that I knew Seth in Chicago, we didn't really I did not have any aspirations to be a professional athlete. I was really just looking to meet new people and enjoy like exercising for fun, crazy concept. And yeah, over the years, even since you and I have been working together, I think it's changed quite a bit into something a little more serious than what it was initially. [00:09:39]But yeah, I thought I was going to full gossipy, a cyclocross, a pro, and race in Europe and be sick over there. So things have just changed drastically, as you may assume, have assumed. [00:09:50] Craig Dalton: [00:09:50] And after those results in 2018, you signed on board with rally cycling on the road. [00:09:57]Lily Williams: [00:09:57] Is that right? In 2017, late 2017. [00:10:01] So I had already done. Oh man. I'm like already losing sense of the timeline. It's been four years and I can't even remember what I've done. In, so even before I had really done a full UCI cross calendar, I had been racing on the road and doing all the professional road races. And so in 2017 I reached out to Hoggins Berman Supermint and then signed with them for 2018. [00:10:26]As my first pro road contract. And then, so before I ever raced with Superman, I did after I signed, but before I raced, I did a full winter of cyclocross racing for the pony shop. Yeah. And then the following the subsequent year, I continued with the pony shop and did another full season of UCI cyclocross and one of my first UCI race. [00:10:44]And then after 2019 Superman, I signed with rally cycling for 2020 cause Superman folded. [00:10:54] Craig Dalton: [00:10:54] Gotcha. And at what point did you start getting the interest from USA cycling to introduce this idea of riding on the track? [00:11:01]Lily Williams: [00:11:01] Yeah, so it seemed so you got a new women's endurance head coach for the track program after Rio. [00:11:09] And his name is Gary Sutton. So he's our coach now. And he was just bringing people in from the road since he got to the U S so the team was really strong. They were defending world champions, Olympic silver medalist. But Sarah Hamer, who was one of their key riders retired. And there were just a few spots that they needed to fill. [00:11:25]So he was bringing people in just based on who was doing well on the road. So in late 2018, so this would have been after cyclocross nationals, two of 2018. So the first one was in January and Louisville, Kentucky, or excuse me, Reno, Nevada. And then the second one was in December in Louisville. I flew two days after Louisville out to Colorado Springs to do some testing as one of many people. [00:11:50]And then realized I might be able to be good enough and then started pretty heavily coming to the track starting early 2019. So I was coming to Colorado Springs for camps once a month, at least before my first race in July of 2019, [00:12:06] Craig Dalton: [00:12:06] the identification testing look like. So you go to Colorado Springs and they make you do something. [00:12:10] What do they make you do? And what are they looking for? [00:12:12]Lily Williams: [00:12:12] I was like, yeah. So I was trying specifically for the team pursuit. Like I knew that going in because I'm literally, [00:12:20] Craig Dalton: [00:12:20] why did you know that? I'm just curious. [00:12:21]Lily Williams: [00:12:21] I guess I didn't really know that I just assumed that, but I was a 1500 meter runner in college, which is a four-ish minute event, like four minutes. [00:12:30] 20 seconds or whatever. And then the team pursuit, the world record is like a four, 10, great Britain has it. So I knew that there was an event that was similar to what I would be doing. And then I came to USA to the us Olympic training center and did some power or testing on a watt bike. So I did like a sick test, 32nd test, four minute test, just to see where you are. [00:12:53] I think my six second test was the worst test they'd ever recorded. And then my four minute test was like the best test they'd ever written. So they were like, there's something here. We don't know what it is. And then when I got on the track, so I actually wrote the track. They put me on a pursuit bike. [00:13:08] So with the arrow from run end and I was doing pursuit specific efforts, just like riding the bike behind the motors. The motor and then like doing some flying 32nd efforts, ish, just to see how quickly I can cover ground without falling off the bike was of course I'd never written one before. [00:13:23]So yeah, it was like two or three days. And then they were like, if you want to come back we'd love to have you, but obviously, like you have to want to do it. And at that point it would require me giving up my cross program and potentially missing a lot of road, which I ended up doing. But yeah, so it's been pretty full gas since. [00:13:39] Probably January of 2019. [00:13:41] Craig Dalton: [00:13:41] Yeah. I can only imagine how challenging it was getting on a track bike for the first time. [00:13:46]Lily Williams: [00:13:46] I guess that's not really a true rule. I have written it Northbrook, which…

Full show notes at the publisher

Tony Pereira - Breadwinner Cycles from the ENVE Builder Round Up Jul 20, 2021

Show notes

This week we sit down with Tony Pereira of Breadwinner Cycles to learn more about this Portland, OR based custom builder. Tony was part of the 2021 ENVE Builder Round Up in Ogden, UT. This week's podcast is generously sponsored by ENVE. Breadwinner Cycles Support the podcast The Ridership Automated Transcription (Please excuse the typos): Breadwinner Craig Dalton: [00:00:00] Tony, welcome to the show. [00:00:01]Tony Pereira: [00:00:01] Thanks for having me, Craig. [00:00:02] Craig Dalton: [00:00:02] It's great to see you virtually from your office there. [00:00:05]Tony Pereira: [00:00:05] It's funny now that we're all accustomed to this it's it makes it really easy. [00:00:08] Craig Dalton: [00:00:08] Yeah. It really is. If you don't have your setup dialed at this point, I don't think you ever will. [00:00:13]Tony Pereira: [00:00:13] Yeah. Right. [00:00:15] Craig Dalton: [00:00:15] So let's start off a little bit by getting to know you and what led you to becoming a frame builder [00:00:21] Transcribing... [00:00:22] Tony Pereira: [00:00:22] It's been a while now. [00:00:23]I worked in, I started out in the outdoor, your industry, I started working in ski shops when I was 16, which was in 1985 and grew up working in ski shops. And then in college, I started working in a bike shop and after college, I moved to Utah and skied and rode and worked in bike shops there. [00:00:44] And I got really active. Like community when I lived in salt lake did that for quite a while. Eventually got bored of being a bike mechanic, just hit my limit on that and what I've always been a tinkerer. Playing around in the garage, working on cars and motorcycles and of course, bicycles. [00:01:01]I learned how to breeze a little and weld a little bit from a friend of mine. And then just brought all those things together. And I was a fan of the old mountain bikes, the, IBUs and salsa. And of course the Richie's, the Richie has always had those beautiful, huge fillets. [00:01:18] And and I'm like, I knew how to braise. So I'm like, I wonder if I could make a mountain bike and, it was, that was two, this was 2002 or so, so almost 20 years ago. The internet was there. We were using all like listserv type communication. But there's a pretty active frame, builder listserv. [00:01:37] It's still exists. But I got on there and started figuring it out, build a couple of mountain bikes and I, after building one, I was like, oh man, I gotta do this. Bringing my love of bikes together with making things and And I just, I was hooked for sure. Riding that first bike is such a joyous, [00:01:54]it's gotta be an amazing feeling to ride something that we've actually made super gratifying. [00:01:59] It sounds like you and I came up in the same era, which was that period of time where there was a lot of great mountain bike, frame builders and custom steel bikes. Every state seemed to have a builder of some notoriety. Yup. Yup. So how did you teach yourself? Was it really through, obviously you had a little bit of hands-on experience from your father's friend to teach you how to weld and, know what equipment was needed. [00:02:25]Craig Dalton: [00:02:25] Were you able to glean some of the basic fundamentals from that list? Serve and ask questions? [00:02:31] Tony Pereira: [00:02:31] Yeah. Yeah, it was great. I know I, Richard Sachs is one of the. More professional frame builders that was on there. And he's always been really generous with his time. And there were a number of others as well, but I remember him in particular, but yeah, there was a great group of people that, that I, you know, some of them I'm still friends with. [00:02:49] Remember Steve from Coconino was getting started exactly the same time. And the two of us were like bouncing things off of each other. And just getting our feet wet, but I, I'm fortunate to have, I have a natural aptitude for using tools and problem solving and, figuring things out. [00:03:08] So yeah, I was able to teach myself, with the help of that listserv, obviously how to make it all come together. And, I look back on those early frames and I still have a couple of them and they were pretty bad. The first there's 20 or so that I built for me and my friends. So they were pretty rough, I should say rough. [00:03:25]They weren't, the finish was rough. They worked fine. But I started building bikes for customers after about the first 20 or so bikes mostly worked, went to my friends and. And they were starting to get pretty good by that. [00:03:36] Craig Dalton: [00:03:36] And did that just happen via word of mouth with the 20 out there, people would see it and say, where did you get that thing? [00:03:42] I had some, I had a core group of friends in salt lake that worked in the bike shop with me, or were associated with the bike shop called wild rose. It was a, early mountain bike scene, mouth bike shop. And two of my friends, Alex and Jeff. They were all, they were 100% on board with me. [00:03:59] They were like, yeah, you got to do this. And we're going to help you build a, some bikes, let's go racing. And we went out, we were all mountain bikers. So we were out riding a single speeds and the inner mountain cup series in Utah, which is a, I think still exists was a really popular mountain bike series. [00:04:18] There were, I think there were 10 races around the whole state. And we got out there and we were top five races. In the single-speed category we started doing that and we would do 24 hours of Moab every year. So we just got out there, we just put it out there and we were having fun and people liked what we were doing. [00:04:33] And I know our very first, my very first customer, he was a guy that we beat in a race and he came up to me at the end of the race. He was like, you guys are having fun. I want one of those. [00:04:43]That's awesome. Were you operating under the breadwinner brand at that point? No. That was Pereira cycles. [00:04:50] The names, namesake brand at that point. [00:04:52] Tony Pereira: [00:04:52] Right. So that was in Utah and in 2004, or so, and then I moved to Portland in 2005. And when I moved here, I decided not to get a job and go in full-time building bikes. I had a few orders under my belt. And I just, I went for it and it worked out. [00:05:11] Craig Dalton: [00:05:11] And did you stay under your namesake as the [00:05:13] Tony Pereira: [00:05:13] Brandon? Yeah, it was prayer cycles until 2013. That's when I hooked up with IRA, we've been building under his name, I Ryan, and and we started breadwinner. [00:05:26]Craig Dalton: [00:05:26] What about that partnership with IRA made it attractive to you to bring different perspectives and skillsets to the team? [00:05:33] Yeah. [00:05:33] Tony Pereira: [00:05:33] Yeah. Different types of riders, but have a like-mind as far as there are eye for style and quality, we both worked with the Rafa clothing company and their very early years, we were friends with the guys that got it going here. And when they were based in. And our friend Daniel conceived of this project called the continental. [00:06:00] And it was a group of writers, originally six writers and IRA. And I were two of them who wrote around first in the Northwest here. And, we have a photographer along with us and they'd made some beautiful images and created that whole brand. That's now Rafa. And like a lot of that, the imagery that they still use is of that same stuff. [00:06:20] But like big mountain rides and we're actually doing a lot of gravel riding on 23 millimeter tires and our road bikes. But riding some really cool round, the epic kind of rides that everybody makes fun of Rafa for now. [00:06:33]Craig Dalton: [00:06:33] I certainly remember that era when those finished visuals and videos came out and they were. [00:06:38] They were certainly evocative of where ultimately gravel slotted in this big mountain adventure, not your Saturday group, not your normal Saturday group ride type of riding. [00:06:49] Tony Pereira: [00:06:49] Right yeah, that was super fun. And out of that Rafa asked us to build, they decided that they were going to get five bike companies. [00:06:58] We were the smallest one and market alignment. That was all through their website. They took the orders and then we would, we build the bikes and I can't remember. I can't remember exactly. It was like Cinelli I know Chanel Lee was one of them. It's they're slipping my mind now, but they're all like big bike brands. [00:07:17] And then it was me and IRA and we were the only ones that were on that continental team. So we called that bike, the continental. And it had my logo on the right side of the down tube in Iris on the left side of the down too. He built mostly with lugs. So it had a lugged head tube and a talk to C2 junction. [00:07:37] And then the bottom bracket was Phillip raised, which is my style, [00:07:40] Craig Dalton: [00:07:40] interesting collaboration [00:07:42] Tony Pereira: [00:07:42] together. We sold 22 of them. So not very many, but out of that, we've found that we really liked working together. And we were like, all right and honestly, we made some good money off of it. Like building that money. [00:07:55] That was how many bikes each of us would build in a year. Right back then I was building 25 likes a year or maybe even a [00:08:01] Craig Dalton: [00:08:01] little less. Yeah. It's funny. In talking to other builders, you talk, you think about the pace in which these bikes get built. If you're building them all by yourself. Two three weeks to build a bike is, about what it takes and do the math. [00:08:14] You can't do much more than 20, 25 in a year, and [00:08:18] Tony Pereira: [00:08:18] you nailed it. We were doing the math and we're like, all right, we can't scale what we're doing now anymore. Some people can, there's a few builders out there that can crank them out, but we couldn't. So we're like, let's figure out a way to keep building bikes, but make more of them. [00:08:34]And maybe make a little bit of a. And the breadwinner name was really something that we hung on that first Rafa project. It was just what we used to open a bank account. You've never had any plans to make it a brand. It was a, kind of an inside joke. [00:08:51] Craig Dalton: [00:08:51] Yeah. I love that. Yeah. We can't make bread any other way. [00:08:54] This is the breadwinner project. [00:08:55]Tony Pereira: [00:08:55] Yeah. Yeah. My S my son had just been born. IRA had just gotten married and we were. We got to figure something out here and we started calling breadwinner. It was again, a joke between us, but a year or two later actually a year after the Rafa thing we got approached by the folks that were starting up Shinola. [00:09:14] Yep. Just now mostly a watch [00:09:16] Craig Dalton: [00:09:16] company. Sure. I remember those bikes. Were they, were you behind them? Bikes as [00:09:20] Tony Pereira: [00:09:20] well. And we designed there. And bill built some prototypes for that. And we got paid well for that. And we took that money and started breadwinner. [00:09:33] Craig Dalton: [00:09:33] Okay. Yeah. You know it, I imagine it's always a challenge as a frame builder. [00:09:38] Once you have the knowledge of all the different types of machinery that could make your process more efficient. Acquiring said, machinery is a big financial outlay. So having those rare opportunities like with Shinola. Rapha before that I'm sure, really accelerated your ability to be a builder that can kick out more than 20 a year. [00:09:58] Tony Pereira: [00:09:58] Yeah. And it helped them. It gave us a little bit of time to come up with some new ideas. Like we could sit back and go, okay, what do we want this, what do we want this thing called breadwinner to be? And we realized that a lot of our customers. If we're waiting a year, sometimes two years to get their bike at the end of that long wait, they were often not happy. [00:10:21]There are lots of opportunities for things to go wrong and or for them to just lose interest or, just, it just it's too long. So we said, all right, with breadwinner, we're going to deliver the bikes in eight to 12 weeks. And that we've tried to do that the whole time. We've done pretty well until this. [00:10:39]And now that's completely out the window. It's six months now. [00:10:43] Craig Dalton: [00:10:43] Fortunately, everybody's waiting that long for a group of, at this moment. So you're all right. [00:10:47] Tony Pereira: [00:10:47] Yeah. The frames, we can turn around, we can build the frames in the same amount of time. If we can get materials, there's, we're run out of tubes. [00:10:55] We run out of head tubes or bottom bracket shells or whatever it is. And we've had moments where we just have to stop. We can't build bikes in the last year. That's really been unusual, but then our painters backed up because, there's this bike boom. So he's extra busy and but anyway, yeah, so it's a little longer now, but yeah, excuse me. [00:11:17]IRA's always been more of a a road rider and a gravel rider. He won the first trans, Iowa gravel race. And I've been a mountain biker. I started mountain biking in 87 and started riding a road bike. When I wrote with those Rafa guys, [00:11:31] Craig Dalton: [00:11:31] you said it sounded like at the inception of breadwinner, did you see the market opportunity being a little bit more adventurous road, bike style? [00:11:39]Tony Pereira: [00:11:39] Not particularly. We, that was just. So our first lineup, we didn't have a gravel bike. Sure. [00:11:48] Craig Dalton: [00:11:48] Yeah. And was it a mountain frame? Go ahead. [00:11:51] Tony Pereira: [00:11:51] Bye. The continental, which is a classic steel fork road bike, we still have that the low lows, our road bikes still are our mainstay road bike. [00:12:00]We have the JV racer, which is our cross country mountain bike. And then a city bike called the Arbor lodge, just the neighbor neighborhood we lived in. And we had a touring bike, which we don't actually don't offer anymore. So that was it. Six bikes that first year. And I believe it was the next year when we came out with the B road, which is now our most popular bike. [00:12:20] And that was our first ground. [00:12:22]Craig Dalton: [00:12:22] Interesting. So how long did, what did that look like in terms of the proportion of which frames were selling and when did you start to see that? Hey, the be road is actually the bike that is most appealing. [00:12:34]Tony Pereira: [00:12:34] At first we didn't have it. So it was, we were mostly selling Lolo's. [00:12:38] That was our logo was a Continentals, definitely on the road. And then we put the B road out there and the low the road bikes were still more popular for that first. So that would have been 20 14, 15. I think in 2016 it started to shift significantly. And then it was like 50% road or gravel bikes. [00:12:58] And then we came out, I think we came up the G road, the following year. And now. 60 or 70% gravel bikes, gravel slash bike packing bikes. Yep. [00:13:09] Craig Dalton: [00:13:09] Yup. Yeah. That's in that, that tracks, what I imagined would happen, it seems on point I was imagining that based on your sales stats, you would have your finger on the pulse of where, and when that gravel product started to break and break free of the pack. [00:13:25] Yeah. [00:13:25] Tony Pereira: [00:13:25] Yeah, no, it's been, yeah. It's. Four years or so where it's been clearly the front runner. And I feel like this year we did a few more road bikes and some of those were people that had bough…

Full show notes at the publisher

Tony Pereira - Breadwinner Cycles from the ENVE Builder Round Up Jul 20, 2021

Show notes

Full show notes at the publisher

In the Dirt 22: Flip chips, fit and in-house manufacturing Jul 13, 2021

Show notes

In the Dirt 22 with Craig Dalton and Randall R. Jacobs. This week we drill further into the discussion around bike geometry, flip chips and fit in our continued exploration of the sport of gravel cycling.

Geometry Geeks

Support the podcast

Join The Ridership

In the Dirt 22: Flip chips, fit and in-house manufacturing Jul 13, 2021

Show notes

Geometry Geeks

Support the podcast

Join The Ridership

Rapha - Jon Freeman and the Explore Powerweave gravel cycling shoe Jul 06, 2021

Show notes

This week we sit down with Jon Freeman, Rapha's Head of Hardgoods to discuss the Explore Powerweave gravel cycling shoe. We look at what it takes from a design perspective to build a shoe and what gravel cyclists should be looking for in a shoe. Rapha Explore Powerweave Shoe Presenting Sponsor: Athletic Greens Join The Ridership Automated Transcription (please excuse the typos): Rapha [00:00:03]Craig Dalton: [00:00:04] Hello and welcome to the gravel ride podcast. I'm your host Craig Dalton. This week on the show, we've got Jon Freeman from Rapha, joining us to talk about shoes. I've wanted to talk about shoes for a while now, and really dig into the ins and outs of what makes a great gravel shoe. [00:00:21]I'd been riding a comfortable, but not maybe high performance shoe. That was great for all day rides. Great for hiking. But I was curious to get into something a little bit more high performance without giving up that comfort. [00:00:33]So it was great to hear from an expert about how the shoe was designed. We talk about the Explore power weave shoe from Rafa. One of their most recent models focused on the gravel [00:00:45] Before we jumped in, I needed to thank this week sponsor. This week, the show is brought to you by Athletic Greens, the most comprehensive daily nutritional beverage I've ever tried. You've heard me before and I'll say it again. I've been an Athletic Greens customer for a number of years. It's my go-to kind of nutritional baseline that I take every day, just to make sure with all the corners I may cut in my diet that I'm getting what I need. [00:01:12]Athletic Greens is definitely part of my big ride day plans. I'll do a drink in the morning just to get on top of my hydration early, before the ride. And then when I come back, I know I'm always crushed and really depleted. I'll do yet another serving of Athletic Greens. One scoop of Athletic Greens contains 75 vitamins minerals and whole food sourced ingredients. [00:01:34] Including a multivitamin multi-mineral probiotic, green superfood blend, and more. They all work together to fill those nutritional gaps in your diet. Increase energy and focus aid with digestion and support a healthy immune system. [00:01:48] [00:01:48]All without the need to take multiple products or pills. That's what does it for me, it's just simple one scoop every day. And I feel like I've got my bases covered. [00:01:58]So that's my pitch for Athletic Greens. [00:02:00] You know, I love it. You know, I recommend it. Simply visit Athletic Greens.com/the gravel ride. And get your free year supply of vitamin D and five free travel packs today. Again that url is Athletic Greens.com/the gravel ride. [00:02:18]Big, thanks to Athletic Greens for their continued support. And thank you for going to check them out. With all that said let's dive right in to this week's interview with Jon from Rafa. [00:02:29] [00:02:29] Jon welcome to the show. [00:02:31]Thanks. [00:02:32] Jon Freeman: [00:02:32] Thanks, [00:02:32] Craig Dalton: [00:02:32] I haven't me. [00:02:32] Yeah. I'm excited to get into shoe technology with you. It's something that I think I've ignored a little bit in my gravel life. I used to think a lot about it from a road shoe perspective and a mountain bikes you perspective, but it took me a while to come around to really understanding what I wanted out of a gravel shoe. [00:02:48] So why don't we start by just getting a little bit about your background and what led you to Rafa? [00:02:53]Jon Freeman: [00:02:53] Yeah, sure. I think there's Two parts of that, really. So it's my background in design. And then a background in terms of bikes and it basically converged at Rapha, which is A great thing to be able to call a job. [00:03:03] Cause they're two big passions of mine, but yeah. And bikes have always been a part of my life. I grew up riding DMS never to any kind of great level, but just as a teenager, it was really immersed in that sort of culture of BMX building dirt jumps, hanging out in skate parks, that kind of thing. [00:03:18] I grew into mountain bike a bit as I got older. I always loved taking bikes apart and building bikes and learning the mechanics of how bikes work as well. And I think that sort of passion for taking things apart and problem solving led me down the degree of or the road of kind of a degree in industrial design. [00:03:37]So I, yeah I studied and industrial design and graduated and then went on to work for one of the. Large design agencies here in London working on a broad range of industries, different product categories. That's the nature of agency work is that it's super varied, but I spent quite a while back and working on a lot of things have been consumer electronics, wearable tech, and those kinds of other areas. [00:04:01]Just getting an understanding of what, where am I kind of passionate land design, but at the same time, I. I purchased the road bike and had my eyes open to just like how much further and how much faster you could travel on a bike with kind of skinny tires and drop bars. And that was just this like spotless passion for road riding, and I started down that journey of just becoming. Really immersed in the sport and the culture and trying to consume everything that goes along with it. So it became this thing where I was working in, in, in design, but I was writing was everything else outside of work. [00:04:37] And it was waking up early to get training rides in before work and then sneaking off early to go and race like local criteriums and that kind of thing. It was everything. And I think around the same time, I. Got introduced to the then creative director at Rapha and I knew of raffle. [00:04:52] I was really aware of them, but I think like purely as a sort of an apparel brand at that point. And they were doing really well at the time kind of rappers always. And on this quite, quite steep growth card, which is great. And they were starting to think more seriously about expanding into other categories outside of apparel. [00:05:11] So we started discussing this and yeah, after a while I basically ended up making the jump to joining Rafa full-time and then helping them to grow the side of the product offering that we categorize as hard goods and accessories. So it's essentially everything that sits outside of the apparel. [00:05:27]And covers a number of different categories, but a big part of that's definitely been the kind of push into footwear. [00:05:34] Craig Dalton: [00:05:34] Nice. What were just out of curiosity, what was the first kind of outside of apparel product that Rafa released [00:05:43] Jon Freeman: [00:05:43] very first? There's always been bits in the range, I think like from a small accessories point of view and things and there's has always. [00:05:51] In an ambition to have parts alongside the apparel. It's like this idea of dressing the rider from head to toe. And so there's been packs and things like that there for a while. And I think w when I joined actually the main focus was in Iowa. So we spent quite a bit of time trying to think about how we could transition into like fully on bike performance, Iowa. [00:06:11] So that was quite a focus. And I think that was where we. The first time we really started thinking like ground up, in-house kind of development about a true kind of hard, good product. [00:06:22] Craig Dalton: [00:06:22] Gotcha. Then when you decided as a company to move into the shoe category, is my recollection collect the correct that you were working with another manufacturer to realize the design originally? [00:06:34] Jon Freeman: [00:06:34] Yeah. Yeah. That's right. Yeah. So she's been in the range for quite a while. 2012 I think was the first. Our first kind of entry into the market and yeah, you're right. That was in collaboration with Giro in those early days. Yeah, that was a great partnership. I think, creating around footwear comes with a lot of like unique complexity and there's a lot of investment involved in the tooling and things like that. [00:06:56] So it was really good for us at the beginning to be able to collaborate with someone who had, have those expertise and had some parts in place that we could share essentially. So the basic premise of those early early styles that we had was using the Giro sole units and narrow on they're lost, which is the part of the shoe or the part that, that the shoe is built around, then it defines the fit. [00:07:18] So we were using those kinds of elements from them and then creating our own unique offers to go on the shoes. So yeah, that, that was before my time with Rafa, but I think, yeah. The approach to those styles was definitely the same as how Rapha entered into the apparel market in terms of just like seeing a category of product that was visually quite cluttered and over branded and just trying to simplify and refine. [00:07:44] And I think we saw the same opportunity in footwear, and that was what led the design of those early shoes. But GT shoes, The first one. And I think, yeah, I think that, I think it's really stood the test of time. We still see people in that shoe today. And I think it's really good. [00:07:59] And largely what we've gone on to do since it's been an evolution of that, is that it [00:08:04] Craig Dalton: [00:08:04] that's interesting when you talk about that design process and as you were describing, collaborating with Giro on that foot bed makes a lot of sense to decouple having to tackle every element of the shoe. [00:08:17] I think as the listener, if you can look down at your footwear right now, you can start to see the different parts that we're going to be talking about and how the sole and the foot bed might be one thing. And the uppers might be another thing. And taking on that entire design challenge, particularly with all the size ranges of shoes, seems like a pretty monumental challenge. [00:08:35] Monumental challenge from the jump. [00:08:38] Jon Freeman: [00:08:38] Yeah. Yeah, it is absolutely. It's massive. And it's got quite a lot of unique complexity versus other kinds of categories. Yeah, you need to know what you're doing, going into it. And I think, yeah, as I say it was, yeah, we're really proud of the work we did with JIRA. [00:08:52] I think it was a great kind of way of starting out. We learned a lot until we came to the point in mid 2016, when he decided we were a place as a company where we'd grown and. And we built the confidence in the category through those collaborations to say, okay, I think it's the right time for us to move away from this partnership and go alone into footwear. [00:09:14] So can't started down that road of creating our own kind of built from the ground up in house range of shoes. Now [00:09:23] Craig Dalton: [00:09:23] imagine part of any partnership decision and product development decision there's economics, right? So there's the economics of working with a third party for that foot bed. And that soul was it, was there parts of the design that you could not realize because it was someone else's foot bed that led you to bringing it into your own house and developing it from the ground up? [00:09:44] Jon Freeman: [00:09:44] Yeah, I think so. Yeah. That's yeah, I think definitely like you, you are working with. A fit that someone else is defined when you're working in that way. And Jerry, she is a fantastic, there was nothing that we were struggling with really. [00:09:58] But I think we just, yeah, we had our own opinions through the things that we'd learned and we had our own kind of vision for where we wanted to take footwear. So yeah, going it alone and making those investments in the tooling and the. The molded components of the shoe does enable you to, have the scope to define everything with regard to how that shoe performs [00:10:19] Craig Dalton: [00:10:19] with that particular partnership with JIRA. [00:10:21] Had you introduced to gravel Shu at that point or was the gravel shoe a ground up Rafa design? [00:10:27] Jon Freeman: [00:10:27] Yeah, we had an, that was a ground up one. We had the GT sheet, which is a good, our grand tour shoe. So it was very much road specific or round shoe. And then later on, we'd followed that again with Giro with the climate issue, which was a lighter weight version of that shoe intended for kind of those big days in the mountains, weight saving focus. [00:10:48] So yeah, we just had those two with JIRA. [00:10:50] Craig Dalton: [00:10:50] And then when do the gravel shoe come into the lineup? [00:10:53]Jon Freeman: [00:10:53] So yeah, it was in 2016. We decided we were. Looking to do our own footwear and what we first launched with the classic and Explore shoe. So they were They were the first two models and Explore is the category, which we define as adventures off-road. [00:11:09] So that kind of a big part of that is gravel kind of encompasses that. So that's a big focus of what that Explore shoes intended for. So let's break [00:11:18] Craig Dalton: [00:11:18] down gravel shoe technology and what the listeners should be thinking about when choosing a shoe. Do you want it in pick wherever you want to start? [00:11:26] If you want to start from the uppers or the soul? [00:11:29] Jon Freeman: [00:11:29] Yeah. Yeah, sure. I think it's interesting when you think about what gravel means in relation to, to footwear is there's definitely some crossover with other disciplines and kind of cyclocross and cross country mountain bike shoes. But then at the same time, it's, there's definitely some really unique requirements for gravel specific shoe. [00:11:48] I think one of the main things That's should be a fundamental consideration that kind of applies to all cycling foot lab before we're just specifically gravel is the sets. And I think, shoe brands are going to have a slightly different set and different approaches to fit. [00:12:04] And feet vary massively even with one size bracket. So I think for anyone looking to, to purchase a gravel share, it's super important that kind of really considering the fit and. Taking the time to probably try different brands, and that's why getting into your local store, trying out different shoes and wherever you can try on different models yeah. [00:12:24] Spending the time to do that, obviously can be, not always possible to ride in those shoes, but even just putting them on and walking in them can tell you a lot about how they're going to work for you. It was an individual. And I think, in gravel, that fear is even more important because. [00:12:40] There are, the shocks from the road that you're experiencing repetitively over the duration of a long ride can really like, be quite tiring on the foot and accentuate any issues that might be there that you might not experienced saying on the road ride so much. So it's super important, I think as well that walking in the shoes I think it brings you onto a second point, which is really relevant to gravel riding. And that's the kind of walkability of the shoe is actually, the kind of traction off the bike is a really important thing. So a lot of the times in gravel, you can find yourself having to navigate sections where it might be like hike a bike or something where you're not riding. [00:13:17]And so it's really important that the shoes comfortable for you in those situations as well. Sometimes a shoe that's focused entirely on. On kind of pedal efficiency and power transfer can be really unforgiving if you try and walk in it off the bike. As well if you're camping overnight or if if that's the kind of, p…

Full show notes at the publisher

ENVE Builder Round Up - builder interview mash up Jun 29, 2021

Show notes

Interviews on-site at the 2021 ENVE Builder Round Up and Grodeo. We grab interviews with custom builders: Falconer, Holland, Inglis, Mosaic, No.22, Pine Cycles, Sage, Salt Air, Sycip and Wies. Episode presented by ENVE Composites Join The Ridership Support the Podcast Automated Transcription (please excuse the typos) ENVE Builder Mash Up Episode Craig Dalton: [00:00:00] Hello, and welcome to a special edition of the gravel ride podcast. I'm your host Craig Dalton. [00:00:07]I'm releasing this week's podcast, just on the heels of returning home from Ogden, Utah. I was visiting this week. Sponsor ENVE composites. [00:00:16]ENVE was hosting their annual builder Roundup showcase. As well as a new event called Grodeo [00:00:22]The builder Roundup is a who's who of ENVE partners from around the world. I saw a ton of gravel and adventure bikes. A few mountain bikes, fat bike. An electric bike and all sorts of amazing things. [00:00:37]The words you'll hear in this podcast will be challenged to really express. How truly unique and gorgeous and impressive. The craftsmanship on all these bikes were. I encourage you to seek out these pictures [00:00:50] On the web on Instagram of posts, some on my account. But really look at the details of these bikes because it's clear these craftsmen are exceptional. At their work. I wanted to get you an opportunity to hear from some of the craftsmen in their own words. So I did some mini interviews about a dozen of them that I've cobbled together in this episode. [00:01:14] You'll notice some variation in the audio, as some of the interviews were held in a room while others were on the show floor. But i really wanted you to hear from the builders themselves so i'm just going to let them fly and hopefully any ups and downs in the audios will be okay when you walk away from the totality of this episode [00:01:34]Before we begin just a couple more words about our sponsor and V composites. I got to do a full factory tour while I was out there to see. The rim manufacturing, handlebars. He posts. And also the full frame set from ENVE, that we talked about with Neil Shirley a few episodes ago. [00:01:53]A couple of things to share about that tour. That really impressed me. First of all, all the manufacturing is done in house. [00:02:02]We got to see the raw rolls of carbon fiber come in the templates in which those rolls and carbon fiber are cut. And laid into molds to create the various products that you know so well. [00:02:12]We also got to see the elaborate in-house testing labs. That they run and the various machines that they torture these products with to make sure they. Obtain the standards that ENVE is known for around the world. [00:02:26]From my vantage point, these machines absolutely abused the products. We saw a frame being torked to know, and we saw spokes being ripped out through rim holes. We saw the impact test machine for rims. It was really impressive. And clearly when NV gets some feedback from the road, someone saying, I was just riding along, they can safely say, there's no way you were just riding along with that impact. You must have been hit by a truck because we know our products are tested to such an extreme standard. So that was really cool. [00:03:03] I am a sucker for U S manufacturing. So I was super geeked out and stoked to see. Not only all the machinery but all the craftsmen and women that were operating in ogden utah and just the passion that they have as a company for creating exceptional products in the marketplace. [00:03:22]After the builder Roundup on Friday was Saturday mornings Grodeo event. It was a 200 Ryder event and my first mass participation event. Since the pandemic began. So it was very excited to toe the line. But quite nervous. The stated course had over 8,500 feet of climbing. And I believe was supposed to be clocked at around 85 miles. [00:03:46] I had a little ride in from the hotel. So at the end of the day, I rode a hundred miles. Did that 8,500 feet of climbing. [00:03:54]My total ride time was just over eight hours and 30 minutes. So it was a huge day out on the bike for me. Hats off to Neil Shirley and anybody else who had a hand in course design. It was really a showcase of the area. We had some beautiful canyon road rides. Single track. Tough Rocky fire road, climbs and descents. [00:04:16] Very beautiful surrounding just when you thought you were done Neil through a couple of loops on the way back into town. On some interesting single track that Ogden had to offer. It was really one of those courses that in my opinion, tested , every element of you as a gravel rider. [00:04:35]Sarah was hard, beautiful and challenging. A perfect gravel course. [00:04:40]With all that said, let's jump right into my dozen mini interviews. They're going to jump around a bit. So just follow along, you'll catch up. Each builder introduces themselves and their brand. And gives a little bit of an overview of the bikes they brought to the Roundup. I've also got four more long form interviews coming up. [00:04:59] Off the top of my head Breadwinner Cycles, Scarab out of Columbia. Spooky and most likely Sage titanium. So keep an eye out in your feed for those as well. Let's dive right in All right. Can you tell me your name and the brand? [00:05:14] Cole Bennett: [00:05:14] My name is Cole Bennett and I run Weis manufacturing. [00:05:17] Craig Dalton: [00:05:17] And where are you located? [00:05:19] Cole Bennett: [00:05:19] In Brooklyn? New York. [00:05:20]Craig Dalton: [00:05:20] So tell me about this very special bike here at the end. ENVE Builder a Roundup. [00:05:23]Cole Bennett: [00:05:23] This is our gravel SL model. It's a 7,000 series aluminum construction and with a carbon seat mast. [00:05:33]There's like a gravel racer that we build. It's got. A lot of details. If you look closely pretty much everything we don't use any off the shelf parts. So all our dropouts bottom bracket tattoos, we design and see have CNC made for us. And a lot of our tubing profiles are also custom. So yeah, I don't know. [00:05:53] It's been a lot of work went into this thing. [00:05:55] Craig Dalton: [00:05:55] It's hard to over the microphone. Describe the backend of this bike. Can you try to do it some justice? [00:06:02] Cole Bennett: [00:06:02] So basically all of our frames have an asymmetrical rear ends. This is a trickle-down from our first frame model, which is a racing track racing bikes. [00:06:11]So the asymmetrical rear end is a stiffer driver's side. It's bigger diameter, tubing, and a drop stay. Just like you'd see in a lot of race bikes, but they do that on both sides. So yeah, the gravel bike also has that. [00:06:26] Craig Dalton: [00:06:26] What is the process look like for a customer wanting to get one of these. [00:06:29]Cole Bennett: [00:06:29] Right now it's I've actually closed the orders. [00:06:32] So the process right now is get on the mailing list and wait for us to release some frame slots. But basically the way the process goes is that they're working with me. It's a small operation, it's me. And one other person that's helping me. And yeah, from start to finish, it's a customer experience is a big thing for me. [00:06:50] So from start to finish, I'm with the customer. Talking through custom paint, custom geo, everything soup to nuts. [00:06:58] Craig Dalton: [00:06:58] And are you in that discussion, if they come to you and say, Hey, I want a six 50 by 50 millimeter, tired versus somebody who wants more of a road plus bike. Do you make modifications? [00:07:09] [00:07:09]Cole Bennett: [00:07:09] I've actually started to put my foot down a bit on that kind of stuff. [00:07:12]Because basically what I tell customers is look, we put a lot of R and D into figuring out tire clearances, everything that's good. So let's not alter the basic platform of the model, but we're happy to do custom geo to really dial in your fit. But if you want to grab a bike, we have a gravel model. [00:07:31] If you want a road bike, we have a couple of road models and so on. [00:07:34] Craig Dalton: [00:07:34] Gotcha. Cool. What's an absolutely stunning bike that you've [00:07:37] brought here. So the congrats. [00:07:39] Cole Bennett: [00:07:39] Thank you. Thank you. Falconer [00:07:41] [00:07:41] Cameron Falconer: [00:07:41] Hey, my name is Cameron falconer, my company falconer cycles, and I'm in Quincy, California. Good. Save there, here at the ENVE builder Roundup before the party starts I make custom TIG welded, steel bikes, and most of what I make is pretty simple and pretty straightforward. [00:07:59]Definitely function. The bike I'm showing here today is an odd one. It's a coaster brake 700 by 50 millimeter flat bar bike. So what is it? Well, I don't know. It's meant to be a tribute to pneumatic tire safety bicycles of the 1819. And these were the bikes that were the first spikes that would appear to us as modern cyclists with pneumatic tires and equally sized wheels and a chamber. [00:08:28] Yeah. And the visual cue is the really tall head tube and the one back bars and the sloping top tube, you see, you saw this in the 1890s and that sort of era, and I've always liked that sort of aesthetic. And finally decided to make something. So it is the couple of things that are interesting on it. [00:08:47]The front hub is a Paul from Chico, California, but I had to make an axle for it to make it work with the through axle. And the front rack is an idea I had and it's made from two curved pieces of titanium sheet metal welded together, and the curves reinforce each other. So it creates rigid. It's designed to hold something pretty small and light like a sleeping bag. [00:09:10] And then the rear hub is an American made Bendix from the fifties. You still can't give this finer a Custer brake hub. So thanks for listening. [00:09:19]Inglis Cycles [00:09:19]Curtis Inglis: [00:09:19] Curtis Ingliss from Napa, California. I build under retro tech in Inglis cycles. What I brought to the NV open house this year is a retro tech fund Durham in titanium. So we have been doing over the years, we've made titanium bikes, a couple of different versions but. [00:09:36] Long-term and we've always just stuck with steel. So we're attempting to play with Ty again. And we were working with simple up in Portland, so I do all the bending so far, the two, two batches we've done. I've went up there and helped build them as well. But I do all the bending in house in California and then drag everything up there and then we build them at the simple factory. [00:09:54] So [00:09:55] Craig Dalton: [00:09:55] is there anything specific about the geometry of this bike? [00:09:58]Curtis Inglis: [00:09:58] This is pretty standard funder. So long front end slack head angle fairly short chain stays, but not you know, crazy short. The idea is trying to like, not make, I'm not racing towards the most extreme geometry, you know, the slackest head angle and all that. [00:10:11] I still want a bike that can be written across country. And handled everything pretty decently but not definitely not shooting for like the most extreme, you know, downhill hard tail bike. I'm looking for a bike that's like fun to ride uphill and down. [00:10:25] Craig Dalton: [00:10:25] And have you seen a difference, like when you're riding your steel funder versus this difference in the way it feels that you might advise customers to think of? [00:10:33] Curtis Inglis: [00:10:33] That's a great question. I haven't actually written a mountain bike type in titanium in my gravel. I have a steel one and a Taiwan. And other than being a slight hair lighter, I both red green, or I don't know. I enjoy both. The geometry has changed a little bit on the new bike. So it's more, I can't tell you. [00:10:54] I haven't tried the mountain bike yet. So [00:10:56] Craig Dalton: [00:10:56] I'm sure for most people, there's just a certain allure of titanium that makes it a dream material to eventually get [00:11:01] Curtis Inglis: [00:11:01] to. And why I built myself when I built six customer's bikes and the seventh bike was mine, and I had just built myself one so that I could have this answer. [00:11:09] I just can't keep, I can't, I never feel comfortable making something that I haven't tried. Usually when I try something new in geometry or whatever, it's on myself or a good friend, so I can get good feedback from them. And on these, I wanted to make sure that like I was the one trying it out and seeing how they rode and if there was going to be tweaks that I needed to do for different sized people and that sort of stuff. [00:11:28] Perfect. Thanks [00:11:29] Craig Dalton: [00:11:29] for the overview. Yeah. [00:11:30]Sycip Cycles [00:11:30]Jeremy Sycip: [00:11:30] Hi, my name's Jeremy Sycip with Sycip designs. I'm up in Santa Rosa, California. And this year for the ENVE show, I brought a it is a, an electric assist mountain bike, but using an ENVE har rigid fork. But it's mainly the main purpose of this bike is to carry. Kind of whatever you need your needs are. [00:11:49] And in this case I have a barbecue in one of these bags and and it's the hall drinks and some to cook with, to trails. And that's what the purpose of this bike is. And it's basically our carry all electric assist, bike it to help, you know, to help you peddle up Hills and stuff, because it's going to be fully loaded. [00:12:05] Craig Dalton: [00:12:05] Nice. And you've so you've got the, is it the ENVE adventure fork on the front? [00:12:08] Jeremy Sycip: [00:12:08] This is not, this is their mountain. Because it's the built, the frame is built around mountain bike, geometry. And so at 29 or wheels and it fits up to a 2.6 tire. Yeah, so it's just one of those just showing off that I can do custom frames and they build all different kinds. [00:12:19] So this is just one of [00:12:20] Craig Dalton: [00:12:20] them. Can you tell us a little bit about the brand and how long you've been doing it? [00:12:24] Jeremy Sycip: [00:12:24] So the brand was started my brother and I started the company back in 1992 and we were in in San Francisco area. Until 2001, and then recently, or not recently, 2001, we moved to Santa Rosa, California. [00:12:37] So it's next year it's going to be our 30th year anniversary. So that's going on for awhile. Okay. [00:12:42] Craig Dalton: [00:12:42] Amazing. And what type of frame materials are you usually using? [00:12:45] Jeremy Sycip: [00:12:45] So these days I've actually offered titanium recently the last few years. So steel aluminum and titanium and building any kind of custom bike, basically tandems rode mountain bikes. [00:12:55] Gravel bikes. You know, I have my commuter line, which I call them my Java boy, Java girl blind. And then these are the one I brought here to S E bike is basically like an like a specialty bike, custom bike lane where it can do whatever people want, basically [00:13:08] Craig Dalton: [00:13:08] on the gravel bikes. Are they always a hundred percent custom? [00:13:11] And how do you what's that process look like when you're working with the custom. [00:13:14]Jeremy Sycip: [00:13:14] Yeah. So all the bikes these days are all custom. So I work with an individual person, one at a time. We do a full fitting if they're near our area or they send me their body measurements. And I kind of work from that and design a frame around what their needs are, you know, tire size components. [00:13:30]And then we come up with a bike, CAD drawing and you know, when they find it, when th…

Full show notes at the publisher

Ian Boswell - UNBOUND Gravel 200, Migration Gravel Race Kenya Jun 22, 2021

Show notes

This week we sit down with UNBOUND 200 winner Ian Boswell. We get to unpack his big win, but also dig into a new partnership between Wahoo and The Migration Gravel Race / Team Amani in Kenya. Wahoo Migration Gravel Race Team Amani Breakfast with Boz Podcast Support the Podcast Automated Transcription, please excuse any typos: Craig Dalton: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to the gravel ride podcast. I'm your host Craig Dalton. This week on the podcast, I'm excited, very excited to welcome Ian Boswell to the show. [00:00:12]We scheduled this interview many months before Unbound, knowing that Ian was participating. But certainly not expecting that he was going to end up with the top spot on the podium. [00:00:22]This episode also kicks off a new relationship for the podcast and Wahoo. I've been a longterm Wahoo customer on the computer side. Having first started with the ELEMNT BOLT and now using the ELEMNT ROAM. I've also been a big fan of the Wahoo frontiers series on the web. I love the videos and getting access to these writers, having adventures and just the stories behind it so when i connected with the team at Wahoo and learned about some of the initiatives they have going this year i was super super stoked to bring them on board as a sponsor. [00:00:56]On the podcast, we'll get the opportunity to talk to some of these Wahoo athletes and get a little bit of the behind the scenes. Look. At some of the adventures they'll be having this year [00:01:05]I'm very much looking forward to these conversations and I hope you will be too. For those of you who don't know Ian Boswell, Ian had a career in the world tour riding for teams like Sky and Katyusha before retiring and moving on to a full-time role with Wahoo as an employee. [00:01:25]Additionally, he set his sights on participating in the gravel racing scene. I don't know about you but i recall that time the beginning of 2020, just questioning where ian would fit into the roster of these pro tour athletes who were moving into gravel and what the impact might be on the sport. [00:01:44]We all had to wait quite a bit longer than we expected to find out what that impact was going to be. So when the 2021 season finally kicked off, And Unbound was on the calendar. It was inevitably going to be thrilling to see where Ian was going to fit in. And to see him win. The biggest race on the calendar this year was quite exciting because it really couldn't have happened to a nicer guy. [00:02:08]We get to dig into a little bit of as experience at the Unbound 200 this year. But equally important, we get to dig into a new initiative from Wahoo [00:02:18] In conjunction with the Migration Gravel Race in Kenya, East Africa. I won't get into too many details in this introduction, because I want you to hear from Ian. And with that, let's dive right in to this week's episode. [00:02:31] [00:02:31]Ian. Welcome to the show [00:02:33] Ian Boswell: [00:02:33] thank you for having me. [00:02:35] Craig Dalton: [00:02:35] It's funny. I cannot believe that your win at Unbound is going to be the second, most exciting thing that we're going to talk about today. [00:02:41]Ian Boswell: [00:02:41] Yeah, it's yeah, it's been a very fortunate couple of weeks I've had and more fortunate for what's coming up. [00:02:48]Yeah, excited to chat about, Unbound, but more importantly, the next couple of weeks of of travel and racing and cultural experience. Yeah, absolutely. [00:02:56] Craig Dalton: [00:02:56] Yeah. So let's get into your victory at Unbound. What was your mindset going into Unbound? Obviously, when you retired from the pro tour and expected last year was going to be your first year as a quote unquote gravel athlete. [00:03:10] It didn't go as planned and you had to wait a long time to get to a start line. Let's talk about what your mindset was going into Unbound. I know you had one an event, the rule of three under your belt previously, but Unbound being the sort of world series or Superbowl of gravel is really a next level experience. [00:03:29] Ian Boswell: [00:03:29] Yeah. In hindsight, in all honesty, it probably benefited me that I didn't race last year, cause I had just come off of, seven years in the world tour and I don't know, 10 years prior to that, racing road bikes, and trying to climb this ladder to the top of the sport on the roadside. [00:03:45] And, I retired and was very much, still felt like a racer. I took a position at Wahoo, so I just had less time to ride and move back full-time to Vermont where the weather is not the south of France, where I was living for the previous seven years. So there was very much this constant underlying level of not stress or anxiety, but just oh, I'm not doing what I used to do. [00:04:06]And it was very much a transitional year where, I was still had this mindset and this, feeling, whether it was, internal or psychological of I'm not training the way I used to. And lo and behold no race has happened. So I spent the first ever, I guess probably is the longest I had spent in one place since I was 14 or 15 years old. [00:04:25]Just riding in Vermont and my mindset over the last, I guess throughout 2020 really shifted a lot to very much alright, I'm at a very different chapter in my life now I'm not a professional world tour, a road cyclist. There are things in my life that are, far more. [00:04:42] No, I don't say important, but I just, I became interested in so many other aspects of my life. Things I've always longed to do, garden and, we got chickens and we got a puppy and I joined the volunteer fire department. That's actually where I am right now with the volunteer fire department. [00:04:55] Cause we have terrible internet at our house. So I got involved in all these other kind of aspects to my life and, Which kind of led to, the return to racing this year. And I was very much of the perspective of is I'm looking forward to races happening again, but if there's another year of kind of pandemic and no events, great, I get to spend another year at home and riding and, maybe going for some KOMS here and there and doing some, some small group rides. [00:05:17]So my mental state. Long answer here, but my mental state going into Unbound was very much have that mindset. Hey, this is an awesome opportunity to be here, but I'm no longer, a athlete or an individual who's putting my sole focus and soul and time and energy into performance at the highest level, which. In all honesty is probably a great way to approach a 200 mile race because, you can burn a lot of nervous energy early on in a race that is going to take 10 hours and you can finish three or four hours in and just feel like I am mentally fried. And, I very much had a fun and enjoyable. Race just because I was so happy to be there. I'm so curious about. [00:05:59] I think that's the other thing is there is a culture and the etiquette to gravel events that I'm still very much learning, so I'm much more. An observer than I am a kind of a leader or, someone like Strickland is very much a, a patrol of the Peloton, he knows what's going on and people respect him. [00:06:16] And, there were countless people that I met, the day before, or even at the start line. And, they had no idea who I was and like, that's great. I'm happy that no one knows who I am, but where I've come from, because they're not gonna look at me to take a big pole or control the Peloton or attack. [00:06:29]Which was great, but I don't think that's going to be the case in events going forward. [00:06:33] Craig Dalton: [00:06:33] I think you're right. I think you might be a mark man at this point. Those are really interesting comments. And I really appreciate what you're saying about mindset and I can't help, but ponder, if some of the other sort of. [00:06:45] Quote, unquote, big name athletes that showed up at that event. Might've had more of a race mindset. And when the terrain, when the course, when the other competitors dictated something unexpected, they really didn't have the mindset to thrive that you've clearly acquired in your time and run up to the event. [00:07:06] Ian Boswell: [00:07:06] Yeah, definitely. And it was the first event, I was there almost a week in advance to do some other stuff with specialized and with Wahoo and, it was the first time really since probably the tour de France in 2018, that felt that not nervous energy, but just There was a lot happening, and it was, and I think for a lot of people, whether it was myself or, someone like Amity Rockwell who had won before, it was the first time in a year for most people that there was this, just journalists and interviews and, people wanting to take picture of your bikes and ask you questions about your equipment and all these little things But yeah, I just, I didn't have to answer too many questions in detail because I was just in very, in a very simple way. [00:07:44] I was almost naive to the event. I had Pete stepped in as mechanic lend me a pump on the start line because I didn't pump up my tires in the morning which is brings it all back down to earth. It's rather than being worried about my start position or, the first 10 miles, I was like, oh cool. [00:07:58] Like I should probably pump up my tires right now because tire pressure I guess, is awfully important and gravel. And I had pumped off the night before, but I just didn't have a pump in the morning to put air in them. So I was like, cool. This is a nice distraction to put air in my tires at the start line. [00:08:12] And it's also, there's I had other missions on the start line as well. I had 10 of the trans pride. Sweat bands with me as well. And so I was trying to find, some people who I knew wanted one and some people who I thought, would appreciate receiving those. [00:08:26]I had other kind of things on my mind at the start, which, brings it back full circle to thinking about the bigger. Topics around the event rather than just the race and being worried about my performance and my kind of expectations internally. That's great. [00:08:40]Craig Dalton: [00:08:40] And I just want to pass along just a personal note on that front, a close personal friend of mine been in the bike industry for a long time, reached out to me and just, he knew I was interviewing you today and yeah. Acknowledged how important that was to him and his family that you made that gesture and having listened to your interview with Molly Cameron on the breakfast with boss podcast, it just came full circle. [00:09:03] And I think it was, it's little gestures like that, that show your character and the type of things you believe in and are willing to put forward in your life. [00:09:12] Ian Boswell: [00:09:12] Yeah I appreciate that and very much wasn't a PR stunt or something I was doing to get attention, cause if I had finished even second or third or hundreds, no one cares, just by nature of winning people pay attention to it, it has become something that I'm more aware of and, back to this whole mentality over the last, 12 months in pandemic and just reflecting on my life up to this point and realizing, how incredibly fortunate I have been and, realizing that so many people haven't had that same life experience that I have, and just been more aware of, different people from marginalized communities or backgrounds or upbringings and realizing that, There's a lot of people who are suffering a lot in this world and are fighting for something far more important than a victory at a gravel race. [00:09:55] And, just to be able to shed a little bit of light on, on those topics and those, movements and groups, it really does bring me a lot of. It makes me feel so good just to receive messages from people and, hear their stories. And it opened up this whole dialogue of conversation, which is so amazing that, such a simple gesture and, really my response to most of these people, it's it's literally the least I can do. [00:10:14]I spent a hundred dollars on wristbands and passed them out. It's that's nothing, but. It's created this, just dialogue and really awareness, which I think, for me, it was the first step in just, learning more of it's just awareness. And I think that's really, can make the industry and just the world and, so many people more informed and more connected and more understanding just to. [00:10:34] To be aware of these different, points in our society and our culture and our world. I think if we can just open our eyes a little bit and be a bit more aware, then it's going to be a better place for all of us. Yeah. [00:10:44]Craig Dalton: [00:10:44] It's so true. It's the cycling industry, the world, it seems to move so slowly towards these things. [00:10:50] And I think it is these baby steps that are critically important. [00:10:55] Ian Boswell: [00:10:55] Yeah. And it really is, and having spoken with Molly, I, realized that more. That, Molly's in this for the long run, this isn't something where we're going to wake up tomorrow and there's going to be radical, change and reform. [00:11:06] But if there is a critical mass, and I think, for individuals like myself who have come from a very privileged background can just be aware that people have had very different life experiences. And to be understanding to that, that, we can. Move in the direction of change and it, it really does just start with that with conversations and with, knowledge, that's such a powerful tool that we have in our quiver. [00:11:28] Craig Dalton: [00:11:28] Yeah, absolutely. And I'll put our link to your breakfast with BAAs episodes, because I think it's important for everybody to listen to that one while you're at the start line, how different was it to line up with another thousand athletes at the same time, that's gotta be one of the largest races you've ever started. [00:11:45] Ian Boswell: [00:11:45] Definitely. Yeah. Most you think most world tour races are races. I had done as a junior, under 23, most maybe you have 200 riders. Yeah, it's it was crazy, thankfully I was able to be near the front just to, squirm through the first few turns, but, with, and I had a friend who had done the event a couple of years ago and he said, man, just make sure you look back at some point. [00:12:02] And we'd had a couple, L turns early on and, because you're in these relatively flat open Plains, looking back with the sunrise and just seeing as far as you could see. A group of riders. That is cool. And that was like the first time I think, in the event that I really realized what a special day it was going to be. [00:12:21] And you're not just for performance and trying to win, but just how many people decided to, travel to employ Kansas, to take part in this event. And, I really didn't understand what it was and what it meant until I looked back early on and just saw this, Stretching Peloton as far as the eye could see. [00:12:38] And that was yeah, it was cool. Definitely it was nice being, being near the front cause you just have less chaos to happen in front of you. But very quickly from there, it turned from, alright, this is beautiful and gorgeous to okay, like the pace is picking up and I should probably keep my eyes on the road in front of me and make sure I'm in somewhat of a reasonable position to make sure I'm just stay out of trouble. [00:12:58] Craig Dalton: [00:12:58] What did those first 50 miles look like? I imagine that at that point, there's still a lot of jockeying for position and whether you're a pro or a talented amateur athlete, there's s…

Full show notes at the publisher

Kali Protectives - Brad Waldron, founder Jun 15, 2021

Show notes

This week we sit down with Brad Waldron, founder of Kali Protectives to take a deep dive into helmet tech and the new Grit gravel helmet. Kali Protectives Web / Instagram Support the Podcast The Ridership Automated Transcription, please excuse the typos: Kali Protectives Craig Dalton: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to The Gravel Ride podcast. I'm your host Craig Dalton this week on the podcast. We've got Brad Waldron from Kali. Protectives talking to us about helmets. [00:00:15]Before we jump in just to reminder, The Gravel Ride podcast is sponsored by listeners like you and a select group of sponsors from the industry and outside the industry. We appreciate any contributions to the show's www.buymeacoffee.com/thegravelride. And when we do bring a sponsor on board, please make sure to check out their products because without their support, we couldn't continue doing what we're doing. [00:00:40] [00:00:40]With that said let's dive right into my interview with Kali. Protectives. Brad. Welcome to the show. [00:00:46] Brad Waldron: [00:00:46] Thanks for having me [00:00:47] Craig Dalton: [00:00:47] I'm super stoked to talk helmets. It's interesting. It's one of those categories that. I haven't covered on the podcast thus far. So I figured going to an expert and talking about it will give the listener a lot of value about helmet technology for gravel, riding [00:01:02]Brad Waldron: [00:01:02] looking forward to it. [00:01:04] Craig Dalton: [00:01:04] Why don't you start off by telling us a little bit about your background and how Kali was started? [00:01:09]Brad Waldron: [00:01:09] Sure. I was super lucky in a previous life career. I worked for an aerospace company working on military aircraft. So I was a carbon fiber R and D engineer. Mostly on the process side, not on the material side. [00:01:22]I was fortunate enough to work on the B2 bomber F eighteens joint strike fighter, and then a few airplanes that had never made it, but just stuff you've made it and broke it to see what we could do. And this will give you the idea of my age, but I was at Northrop Grumman in between the first Gulf war and the second Gulf war. [00:01:41] And they didn't want to put a lot of money in production at that time, but they want to put a lot of money into R and D. So I was just in the perfect place at the perfect time where you could almost do anything you wanted. If it made sense. I, one time my boss walked in and said, DARPA's going to be here next week. [00:01:57] Think of something. Go back to my desk and I, without five different projects and the next week sit down in front of these generals and you. Present these ideas in here I'm, in my late twenties, early thirties, somewhere in there. And they're like rubber stamping, all of them and oh shit. [00:02:12] Now I got, I do, so I got to build a $12 million milling machine and then just things like that. So that's where my real just try it. Mentality came from, when you hear are, you can't do that. And get into some of the things that people told me we couldn't do at Kali. It's let's just try, and that's been like theme sentence. [00:02:30] So I worked that and through some changes in life, I went to work or another aerospace company and didn't love it, so I was down in the Southern California area, working there. And then I moved back up to Northern California where I was born and raised. And I was in R and D at this satellite company and it just wasn't everything I wanted. [00:02:49] And lo and behold, there's this ad for the big red S in the paper. And so I put on my suit and went to my interview. Nobody's wearing a suit, got called back for a second interview and go, what do I wear when I knew I wore the suit? Yeah. So I guess it worked, they offered me a job as the Pumps and locks, designer, something like that. [00:03:09]And I was so happy to take my 25% pay cut to be in the bike industry. And there was, and then on my first day they said, Hey, you know that job, we offered you the helmet guy quit. And would you rather that job on the helmets over locks? Hell yeah. But the ironic thing was they, at that time, specialized was still assembling the helmets at, on a site and. [00:03:32] We tested our helmets and they said, there's the test lab. There's 10,000 helmets sitting over there that can't be shipped. So you say they're tested and Don, w oh, and by the way that the helmet technician quit at the same time. And so I walked into this test lab with this equipment I never seen in my life and go, okay, what did we do here? [00:03:50] And fortunately somebody who's become a good friend and who I trust in testing. Dr. Terry Smith came and trained me how to run the equipment. The best thing I did was I tested all the helmets at specialized for the next year. I didn't hire another technician. So getting that lab experience and seeing how these helmets broke personally, not just people come and say, Hey, look at this, here's your, reading reports and stuff it's was a great launching point for [00:04:17] me. [00:04:18] Yeah, absolutely. I can imagine just having your hands on that many. Tests to see how these helmets are performing just was like training by fire. [00:04:27]I tell people frequently that I'm a mediocre engineer. I'm really a better technician. I just somehow wiggled my way to get my degree, but mostly I just love being in the shop. [00:04:36] If you saw my office next to me as a drill press on the other side of the bandsaw, just being out there with my hands is the way [00:04:44] Craig Dalton: [00:04:44] I work. And did you have a background at cycling when you were in the aerospace industry? [00:04:48] Brad Waldron: [00:04:48] I had started cycling with some friends and just, around the LA area. [00:04:52] And if, I lived in first and Palmdale. When I first moved into Palmdale, I walked into a bike shop and this long hair blonde guy walks up and says, can I help you? And I said I'm new to the area. Can tell me where some trails are. And he's I'll pick you up Saturday morning at nine, it turned out it was insane. [00:05:10] Wayne crows Dale. So my first ride was insane, Wayne, and he there's a long story on board with it all, but he basically rode a wheelie up the fire road next to me, up and up. And, but we had a, the time rode with Wayne A. Little bit and then, got into riding there. And then the transfer down further. [00:05:29] Into the depths of LA, where you have to drive an hour just to get to the dirt. lot of people around me were riding and that's where I really got started riding was during that. [00:05:39] Craig Dalton: [00:05:39] Yeah. Right on. And you brought that to specialize and obviously specialized has a big riding culture down there in Morgan hill. [00:05:45] Brad Waldron: [00:05:45] Yep. Yeah. We're actually about 500 meters from them. Our building is they actually have to pass us to get to their building. And so we painted big ass Cali letters all over the building. Just to annoy him. [00:05:58]Craig Dalton: [00:05:58] So then at some point you decided I'm going to jump off and do this on my own. What, was there a particular market opportunity that you saw? [00:06:05] Something that you felt wasn't being done at the bigger companies? [00:06:08] Brad Waldron: [00:06:08] No, not yet. That's not really where it happened. At the time when I was in special ed, so I had moved on from helmets and eventually became the head of engineering that specialized for everything for bikes. Mostly. What I concentrated on was the carbon fiber projects. [00:06:22]The the, I worked on the tarmac and Robi mostly on the layups and things like that. Other guys who had much better frame experience than I did you know, the geometry? So I would go the factories and work with the carbon layups and things like that. And we would make it and break it. I still have, I have tarmac frame, number two, doesn't look, anything like what went to production. [00:06:43]It had a split top tube who knew that was UCI illegal, but so my re people see it all the time. It doesn't say special. I didn't say anything on it. So it's got carbon, top tube and chains and seats tubes, and and then the underbody is aluminum. So the idea was it was going to be nice, crisp, feel of the aluminum, but where your body touches, you're going to have that forgiving carbon fiber Conceptually feel. [00:07:09] And so I still have that bike when people see me out on it I'm not a big roadie. I don't ride a lot on the road, but they're like, what the hell is that? Because it's totally unrecognizable, but it's pretty cool. So I actually left specialized primarily because they were going through some transitions at the time they had wanted to transfer a lot of the engineering to Taiwan. [00:07:32] And I wasn't interested in that job. I had my first kid, I didn't want to travel, did not want to travel at all. And so I actually resigned from the position. It was a great experience. It took me nine months to leave. Because I didn't have another job. I hired my replacement. I finished those two bikes and then just started consulting a little bit. [00:07:52] So I consulted. A little bit with true beta worked on their first carbon bars. With Jared Smith, they're headed for engineering their first carbon cranks, things like that. And it bounced around a little bit. Then somebody came to me and said, we need a carbon fiber factory in China to feed these other factories. [00:08:12] And I just quit specialized cause I didn't want to travel. And they came to me and said, Hey, can you help us start the Stackery? And I'm like, how many times a year will I have to come? Then they were four times. I'm like four, okay. Talking to a non traveler. Now I said, I can come for four times a year. I spent no less than 150 days a year for the next seven years. [00:08:33]I just couldn't let it go, try to get the thing up and running and working the way. And we made things like skid plates and pipe bards. KTM was one of our biggest customers. But one of our customers was a helping it factory. So they came to us to make a motorcycle helmet shell, and they, we looked at this thing and we made the shell, we sent it over. [00:08:52]And they knew I also had some testing background. They were showing me these test results. And I was seeing some things that I didn't like. Basically I was seeing a double spike in G-Force and what that meant to me, it was inside your school or your brains just slapping around. Cause you're seeing a double impact. [00:09:10]That was happening because as the impact hits the outer shell was so stiff that if you forced a spike up, then as the shell breaks down, they start to fall. Then you hit the foam and they spike up again. I'm like okay, what's doing, that is the gap between your foam and my shell. [00:09:27]Let's get this thing tighter. Arrive, for example, really prides themselves on the fact that they designed their foam and shell to fit so well. Not everybody spends that much time on it. Then I had this really, according to them, stupid idea. He said, why aren't you in molding these like the bike helmet? [00:09:43] And they're like, that's impossible. It's a processing problem. You'll never make it work. And that's where that let's just try it thing came in. So we went in and we tried it. It took a couple of years to finally get it to work, but we started in molding motorcycle helmet. So now you're eliminating that gap between the farm and shop. [00:10:03] Then on top of it, you start to learn, oh, I don't need that much shell. I can thin the shell down because I've got the phone, backing it up. And by the way, I don't even have to have as high of DPS density. I can lower that too. So now I'm finding out that when I have the impact, instead of having that double spike and G-forces, I've got this nice smooth curve that spreads the load much more efficiently, then I got less shell. [00:10:29] I got lighter foam. I got a much lighter helmet. And I always liked to tell people I never start a project with a weight goal. I think that's not a good way to start a project that, that compromises safety in my opinion. But that process was helping us make a much lighter helmet, which in the end is simple physics force equals mass times acceleration, reduce the mass. [00:10:51] You're going to reduce the force. So we started, Perfecting this process showing these results around, tried to sell the patent. I did not. I was not looking to start my own company. That being a CEO, being in sales and marketing, not my favorite thing. We had a few people who were really close to buying it and then backed off. [00:11:11] And then somebody who somebody came along a golden investor, essentially. Came along and said, you got to do this and I'll back you. And so I've got one silent investor in his company has been nothing but amazing. Always allowing me to make safety decisions first over simply. What are your sales today? [00:11:30]Craig Dalton: [00:11:30] You mentioned that's amazing. You mentioned that you started with that motorcycle helmets technology did Cali launch where the motorcycle [00:11:39]Brad Waldron: [00:11:39] we did and nobody cared. Literally we, we went to the Interbike of Moda, which was Indianapolis. There was in Indianapolis motor sports show and we got our booth and I'm standing there my first day. [00:11:52] And you could hear the yarn from the industry. Nobody cared, had the cutouts, you could see. So the second day I'm like, I spent all of my money to get here. I stood in the aisle and made people pick up the helmet. Cause it was significantly lighter. Then what people were used to, and, know, you get the response, like that's it's okay. [00:12:09] But I guess just put it in your hands and if you don't want to talk to me, move on and then you put it in their hands and go, what is this? And then through that, the rest of the next few days, I only had one guy actually put it in my hand and walk on. Everybody else said, all right, what's going on? [00:12:22] And then we would explain what was happening with the in molding process and why we could do what we could do and, and show the results of the [00:12:30] Craig Dalton: [00:12:30] testing. Was it always in the back of your head to move into the cycling market? [00:12:35]Brad Waldron: [00:12:35] I was more of a cyclist than I was Moto. When I started doing good, if I get involved with something, I want to get into the sport. [00:12:41] So when we started making skid plates and pipe guards, I went and bought motorcycles, started riding dirt bikes. Now I ride a Ducati and in a fixer and and but cycling was definitely more my heart. But it, so it wasn't that I was necessarily looking to do that, but we had found a way to build full shell helmets that I believe in, I drank my own Kool-Aid that when you put that on your head using that technology, you were putting on a safer product on your head. [00:13:11] So the next thing of course was to do a full face download on it. So we did that and immediately the bike industry was. More welcoming. Yeah. The motor industry is great, but it's complex. It's the distributors have all had their own helmet brands. So in our industry, we've got the different distributors BTI, K Chaz QBP, all these different guys. [00:13:34] They don't have their own brands. When you start talking about Modo, they all have their own Hammad brands. If you think. The answer for example, is open owned by a company called Rocky. There's just the complexi…

Full show notes at the publisher

Ribble Cycles - Jamie Burrow, Head of Product Jun 08, 2021

Show notes

This week we sit down with former Pro Tour rider and current Ribble Cycles Head of Product, Jamie Burrow. Jamie walks us through the range of Ribble Gravel Bikes across three frame materials and highlight the companies' unique custom bike builder. Ribble Gravel Range Ribble Instagram Support the podcast Join The Ridership Automated transcription (please excuse any errors) [00:00:00]Craig Dalton: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to the gravel ride podcast. I'm your host Craig Dalton. [00:00:08]This week on the podcast, we have Jamie Burrow. He's a former pro tour rider on the road and current head of product for the UK brand Ribble cycles. [00:00:19]As you'll learn from Jamie, Ribble offers a full suite of gravel bikes across a range of materials. [00:00:25]And also offers a direct to consumer model via their website with a unique bike configurator tool that allows you to customize every element of your gravel bike. So if you're looking for those wide bars or 650 wheels, Or a little different saddle or set up, you can go through and individually customize every part and piece of the bike. [00:00:46]Making it uniquely yours. Including a custom paint job, which I just learned about during the podcast. Which i think is a fabulous opportunity for anybody looking to ride something unique. [00:00:56]Before we jump in, I just wanted to send a huge thank you to those of you who have elected to become members of the podcast. Via buy me a coffee.com/the gravel ride your monthly support to my efforts at the podcast are hugely appreciated [00:01:11]And I wouldn't keep doing what I'm doing without your support. With all that said let's dive right in to my interview with Jamie. Jamie. Welcome to the show. I appreciate you joining us all the way from the UK. You're welcome. I know we could easily do an hour on your backstory as a cyclist back in the pro tour, but [00:01:30] for the purpose of this conversation, why don't you just tell us what led you to your current role at Ribble? [00:01:35]Jamie Burrow: [00:01:35] I suppose it's just taking a different path to most people who, you know, X, Y, Z, as you go down the kind of sports director, team management role. I come from a cycling family and grew up around bikes, really. Dad told me to build bikes when I was probably about five years old, I think. [00:01:50] And the early days my dad was a designer himself by trade. And it just passionate the bikes as a kid. I started designing my own bikes as a teenager, honestly, back in the days when everything was made by steel I was designing my race bikes that sort of 15, 16, and had a local frame builder would build them for me. [00:02:08]And then you go into the whole race career thing. And even as it has it sides where obviously all your equipment is given to you, you don't have choice on things. Sometimes on the best equipment, sometimes it's not the best and, seeing the sides of things and then get out, it would be so much better if you could have this or who could have done this way. [00:02:26] So suddenly finding yourself, coming out the other side of a career where you're effectively right in the kit for seven, eight hours a day in all conditions, you know what you want, what's good. And, what's missing. So then suddenly be, behind the steering wheel of, being out of an input in those things. [00:02:42] That's a pretty cool. [00:02:44] Craig Dalton: [00:02:44] Yeah. It's gotta be pretty amazing to take your vision for what a bicycle should be and deliver it to the world. [00:02:50]Jamie Burrow: [00:02:50] That's right. Yeah. Honestly, my main background was obviously road riding and obviously there's so many different forms, disciplines of of cycling, but It does [00:03:00] help when, when you've ridden bikes in every situation at higher level to know what they need, for OEM performance wise, aerodynamics everything map, you just, if are those kinds of get to know things, is it that you get to know on the road? [00:03:15]Craig Dalton: [00:03:15] Can you, I was really tickled to learn about Ribble as such a storied UK brand that I hadn't really heard of. I suppose I'd seen it in some races. But it really didn't connect the dots until after I got introduced to it. Can you tell the listener a little bit about Ribble's history as a brand? [00:03:33]Jamie Burrow: [00:03:33] Yeah, so it's actually a very old brand. [00:03:36] It was originated in 1897. So it's a pretty old comes from the Northwest of England. The Ribble name comes from the river in the river valley. It was a family business for generations. Changed hands a few times. As we went into the 20th century I even from my own point of view, growing up, I would say coming from a cycling family where and obviously way before online sales in cycling weekly magazine in the UK where the back pages were always full of adverts rebel was always the big. [00:04:06] Out of the taken up the last two back pages of the magazine, and it was one of the premium brands of the UK. Foods, seventies, eighties, nineties, they would sponsor some of the biggest elite teams in the UK of a national team sponsor. They were the official Barcelona Olympics supplier guys, like Boardman rode them for years previous to it before going to approach or career. [00:04:30] [00:04:30] Wiggins, even Geraint Thomas, they're all guys that have written on Ribble over the years and, because they were one of the, one of the big brands. And you come back in that era [00:04:40]Craig Dalton: [00:04:40] and then it sounded like in talking to you offline, the brand took a little dip as bicycle companies started to move from steel to carbon and other materials. [00:04:49] And then it seems like over the last, five, six years has had a really big resurgence in the UK. Can you talk us through what was going on there? [00:04:57] Jamie Burrow: [00:04:57] Yeah, man. I think that not just rebel, I think it was actually quite a fast change from steel and then a brief period into titanium. A minium, at least as far as a vote were concerned. [00:05:09] And then into carbon, obviously when carbon come along as a material, took away the ability for small builders, as the UK was falling small frame builders, as well as a lot of the bigger brands like Ribble And as soon as you go to the gun of those different forms of production, and obviously everything went over to Asia, I was, did the bigger brands managed to want, I suppose they directed it from the beginning and it made it harder for the smaller brands to be able to keep paces, things a lot more expensive, especially when you look back at the beginning of of. [00:05:41] The carbon industry mounted costs, everything production costs were so much more expensive than they are now. And I think a lot of brands did get lost through the nineties early two thousands, but now things are a lot more accessible to everyone and, it's been our job to bring Ribble back on [00:05:57] Craig Dalton: [00:05:57] the map and now Ribble building out of all sorts [00:06:00] of materials. [00:06:00] Right? [00:06:01] Jamie Burrow: [00:06:01] Yeah. That's great. That is one of our kind of. Key USBs is the fact that we offer so many materials across. So the same genre of bikes. [00:06:11] Craig Dalton: [00:06:11] Yeah. And I want to dig into the gravel series because that is clearly represented with the aluminum carbon titanium. I did want to point out that rebel has an exceptional web property. [00:06:23] At this point, it was really enjoyable going through the bike configurator and in talking to one of your colleagues, just learning about. The sheer amount of customization that is available and the amount of holding that the team provides for an e-commerce experience, I think is really exciting and notable in the industry. [00:06:42] Do you want to talk about that direct to consumer model and how you make the consumer feel like they're in the showroom with the employees, even throughout the pandemic? [00:06:51]Jamie Burrow: [00:06:51] Yeah. And the whole key kind of USP for the business is our bike builder function, which allows you to effectively, you can have a choose a bike from one of our pre-spec's. [00:07:02] And I've obviously been put together from our knowledge, but then obviously that's the way that most of the bike brands do outside of that, the bike builder gives you the options to customize effectively everything. Whether you want to start from a frame platform or a group set. And to manage everything. [00:07:18]The choice of handlebars from materials to size is handlebars, stems. seatposts, settles tires, 700 c, 650b wheel sizes, especially on the, on a gravel bike. It [00:07:30] flared bars, standard bars, crank lengths, all of these things we offer as well as for good part of it, year and a half, two years now, we've been offering custom color. [00:07:39]And all of this is done in house. So every single bike is from the moment of order. It's one bike, it's one mechanic. So the whole process for obviously to do go, directly onliner you said from we've got our go install platform, which is, a virtual instill experience, which is proven really successful in a lot of people go on there. [00:07:59] Maybe initially with an idea of one product and actually walk away with another product because they didn't have a full understanding of what they really needed. Yeah. Or just someone who didn't have an understanding and needed that expertise to, to find that buyer. And obviously starting from the kind of right, and the person wants to do budget, obviously, and the facts, the way the bike builder works, you couldn't completely customize that bite to the rider. [00:08:25]You're not. Is there a lot of kind of bike shops would do in the past. You all, can you set it in the bottom of something, the shop floor, and it's the salesman basically sell it, trying to sell that, buy it to the customer because he's got it in stock, regardless of whether it's the right size or the actual product the customer is after. [00:08:43] Whereas obviously we can offer you exactly what you need. [00:08:47] Craig Dalton: [00:08:47] Yeah. I think that's particularly interesting and germane to the gravel market simply because the consumers have to go through so much thought process of. What is my terrain look like, what do I want to do? What are my intentions? [00:09:00] And these gravel bikes are so configurable and their personalities can be so different based on tire wheel, size bar, with all these things that you give them the option to. [00:09:10] So to me, when I looked at the Ribble site, I said, this is almost an accelerant for the consumer to have all the conversations they should be having with themselves about what they want to do with this bike. So they make sure they get it. As they need it right when it comes off the factory floor. [00:09:26] Jamie Burrow: [00:09:26] That's right. Yeah. And I think gravels is the unusual, one of, all of the the different sort of sectors that we sell bikes in, because it's new to the point where I don't think, across the industry, hasn't become a stable platform of what is a gravel bike and what is gravel, geometry. And a lot of it does come down to the end use of it, obviously. [00:09:47]Gravel, we're still talking about gravel. When we look at mountain bikes, when you look at trails and Euro downhill cross country, we look at them as individual categories. We don't just say mountain bike anymore. Whereas gravel, we're still just saying gravel. Even when you look into the events that are currently on offer globally A lot of them. [00:10:05]A lot of it as the whole pandemic is stopped. Obviously mass participation events, nothing compared to the side of gravel probably would have taken a massive step forward. Last year. I know the UCI, I'm talking about you jumping on the bandwagon, tend to the world championships and all sorts of competitive racing. [00:10:24]But for the moment, outside of, over there, you've got Things like that. It cans over here. We've got the day of [00:10:30] either kind of more, a lot of guys have taken it more backpack in adventure rather than the race side of things. And obviously you've got such a difference between fully loaded in a bike to take on a long adventure than racing effectively. [00:10:48] Off-road and it's still. No, I think as the events unfold and people get more into it, we'll see the more, it develop more. From our side as a brand, and we started with our CGR model, which is cross gravel road and I suppose initially thinking it was the fact that gravel in the UK was slightly slower than it was in in the states to actually get moving. [00:11:14] And we can see that. And it's one useful thing with our bike builder tool, because you're not, you haven't got pre specked, a catalog bike, it's you get to see through the bite load of what the end consumers actually using the bike for. And then the year one this is quite a UK thing, but as a commuter that you could tell that most people buying the bike we're buying as commuter or running vendors we're rack. [00:11:39] What a kind of heavy duty road tires, lights. So it was more of a ride to work bike rather than a gravel bike. As the gravel scene took off, you saw they've gone into bike and go to button the same frame platforms, but then switch into one by systems. Gravel tires, fled bars, start to [00:12:00] come in all these kinds of things that I've picked up in the gravel trends. [00:12:04]And, it's been good to see the development and how the end consumers have taken sight of that. The other thing on our side, and it's what led us to move on to having a grubbing specific range on top of the CGR was the fact that the CGR was born as effectively relaxed road geometry with bigger clearances. [00:12:26]And then we've taken the we've taken a. Hint more from, mountain biking, hardtail mountain bike in. So the new gravel range, we've got to have a slightly longer and lower geometry. So a bit more stable off road, where if you want to a full on gravel bike, you can take it out there. More kind of gnarly road trails rather than just. [00:12:46]Craig Dalton: [00:12:46] Yeah, I thought [00:12:47] it was really interesting as someone who's been involved in the sport intimately, the last three years, you've got an article on the website about the CGR geometry versus the gravel geometry, and just seeing the frame superimposed on one another was really interesting because I think it is indicative of that. [00:13:05] Trend in gravel, as you said, to make these, to take them out and bike influence and make these bikes hugely capable while still balancing the ability to ride them on the road and enjoy them. Obviously it's not a pro tour level road bike anymore. You've made compromises, but at the same token, for most riders, it can be extremely enjoyable as their quote unquote road bike and massively capable as their gravel [00:13:30] bike, their bike, packing bike, et cetera. [00:13:32]Jamie Burrow: [00:13:32] Yeah, so I don't have nothing. It's just been interesting to think. A lot of people in the beginning it was, I can buy one buyer that does it all. And then I think we saw on the other end of the scale, people that may be at a real high-end road by the high end mountain bike and wanted the second bike. And it was a plus one. [00:13:51] And, maybe he did go in for a more cheaper than she'd ever bought it because it was a plus one. And now we're seeing again, it's developed so fast. But now people are buying high roadway and a high-end gravel bike, rather than it just being the plus one to…

Full show notes at the publisher

Our TOPPODCAST Picks

Follow Us

Stay Connected

The Gravel Ride. A cycling podcast

Related Podcasts

Links

Stay Connected