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Gavin Coombs - Dead Man Gravel Mar 23, 2021

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This week we sit down with Gavin Coombs from Dead Man Gravel. We get into the details of this new July event in Colorado including conversation about the events' efforts towards diversity and the financial investment it takes to get an event off the ground. Dead Man Gravel website and Instagram The Ridership Forum Support the podcast Dead Man Gravel - Full episode transcript. [00:00:00] Craig Dalton: [00:00:00] \Hello and welcome to the gravel ride [00:00:03] podcast i'm your host craig dalton on this week's episode, [00:00:07]We have Gavin Coombs, one of the founders of the dead man gravel event in Nederland, Colorado. [00:00:15]The event is scheduled to take place on July 31st, 2021. Our conversation ranges from diversity and inclusion. To the economics of event production. And obviously the ins and outs of dead man gravel. Before we begin. I'd like to apologize for about a minute of poor quality audio. In the last episode, I only learned it after the fact. [00:00:39]From a listener. In the ridership. I appreciated that feedback, but thank you for bearing with me. I apologize for that. I'd also like to say a big thank you to those of you have supported the podcast via buy me a coffee.com/the gravel ride. In particular, those of you who have chosen the membership option. [00:01:00] Having a consistent baseline level of support from you? The community means a ton to me, more and more. I'm having to move things around in my life. In order to hustle to get these episodes out the door. But knowing that you're counting on me, puts a little fire in my belly. When I first started the podcast, my intention was to cover an equal mix of athletes. [00:01:22] Product designers and event organizers. [00:01:26]As the COVID pandemic took hold in 2020. [00:01:30] It largely took events out of the equation for the podcast last year. So I'm happy to be slowly bringing them back into the fold. I'm cautiously optimistic that in the latter half of 2021. We will see events safely going off with riders and organizers, both sharing. [00:01:47] In the responsibility of safety. I have a ton of respect for advent organizers as you'll hear in my conversation with gavin even with a modest event size it often can carry significant expenses associated with it i hope you'll walk away from this episode with a little bit better understanding of what organizers go through in order to give us these experiences in the gravel community With all that said let's dive right in to my discussion with gavin about dead man's gravel. Gavin, welcome to the show. [00:02:21]Gavin Coombs: [00:02:21] Thanks Craig. Excited to be here. [00:02:22] Craig Dalton: [00:02:22] Yeah. I'm excited to talk to you about dead man. Gravel. It ticks a couple things that I really like about events. [00:02:30] It's got a funny name and it looks really hard and adventurous. [00:02:36] Gavin Coombs: [00:02:36] Yeah, definitely. We wanted to be a really fun event. And, I think the area that we live in up here in the mountains is a pretty special place. And yeah, it's going to be a great event. I think [00:02:47] Craig Dalton: [00:02:47] Before we get into the event, let's learn a little bit about you and your background as a cyclist. [00:02:52] And after that, I'd love to learn a little bit more about what inspired you to create an event. [00:03:00] [00:03:00] Gavin Coombs: [00:03:00] Yeah. In all, honestly, I am a new cyclist and I know lot of people pretty new to gravel riding. I was a professional trail runner for a number of years and would occasionally ride as like cross training. [00:03:13]I've been riding a bike, for a really long time. But just never in any kind of like structured or organized way. But it was always a runner and in my leader, Career was like a trail and ultra runner. And what really drew me to that is just the ability to be able to get out into the mountains and explore and just see just everything that. [00:03:31]That all has to offer. And then recently I ended my running career and then had a a skiing accident where I messed up my knee. Pretty good. And after a couple of surgeries, I've gotten more into cycling and just as a way to, to continue to do the things I loved about trail running I was able to do on a bike as well. [00:03:50] And was that's what really drew me to, to gravel cycling and in terms of starting an event I've been wanting to do something like that. I operate another business that runs dead, man gravel called peak-to-peak endurance. And we do like retreats and camps, and then wanting to get into the event world for a while now. [00:04:08] And saw this as an opportunity to create an event where there wasn't one here in Boulder County, Colorado, there are a few bike races not. A ton of gravel, specific ones, there's a couple races or one race in the winter. That's a little kind of gravel bike. And then but there's not a lot of races in this [00:04:30] area. [00:04:30] And so we saw an opportunity and kinda just threw ourselves into it and just went after it. That's [00:04:36] Craig Dalton: [00:04:36] awesome. So I want to go back to something you said about how gravel cycling is ticking some of those same feelings you might have had of adventure. W when you were doing your ultra marathoning, it'd be, if you drill into that a little bit, do you feel like it has similar elements in how you feel after doing a big adventurous workout? [00:04:56] Gavin Coombs: [00:04:56] Absolutely. Yeah. The similarities, on the surface, there can it's easy to see some similarities between, gravel and trail running. And then as I've just gotten more into the gravel community, the similarities are just incredible. Just. Based on the community, everyone's like super welcoming and that's what drew me to trail running initially from the roads. [00:05:18] And like just the fact that everything's just super chill and people just want to have fun and adventure and explore. And the same thing I've found the exact same thing with gravel riding and that, it was just a huge draw for me. And And you can still do the same things. [00:05:32]Obviously you can't ride a gravel bike everywhere you can run, but you can still get a lot of, to a lot of really incredible places and can get, go a lot further, it's yeah. It's one thing to go run 50 miles. It'd be completely trashed, but you can go out and ride 50 miles and, be able to see, just as much or a lot of different stuff in, not it doesn't totally destroy your body and Yeah know, so there's just a lot of similarities there. [00:05:56] Craig Dalton: [00:05:56] I didn't draw it connection until this moment about the ultra running [00:06:00] community and the gravel cycling community, but that's so spot on, I think, sport to sport. There's those elements that you described of once you started running off road, it just became this different thing. It wasn't about running a six minute mile. [00:06:14] It was about covering this amazing mountainous terrain by any means necessary. And sometimes that meant walking. Sometimes it meant running all the time. It meant getting dirty. Oftentimes it meant getting bloody. But it was, just really about getting out there. And obviously there's so many similarities from road cycling to gravel, cycling where all of a sudden a light bulb goes off and roadies are discovering, getting dirty and getting out there on these mountain roads that are right there in their community can be so much more rewarding than the same road routes they've been doing forever. [00:06:50] Gavin Coombs: [00:06:50] Totally. Yeah. And I think you're definitely seeing that in the industry. Obviously gravel is exploding and in a lot of that's driven by new people getting into cycling because it is more approachable. I feel like. But you see a ton of people going from the roads to gravel because, honestly I think. [00:07:05] That being like a former road runner. I know how exhausting that world can be. Yeah. Just mentally and physically to come to a place that is just so much more laid back. And it's not about, like you said, it's not about hitting a specific time or pace. It's just about. The overall adventure. And, I think people are really drawn to that, [00:07:25] Craig Dalton: [00:07:25] Not to drill too much into the ultra community. and I certainly won't profess to be an active [00:07:30] member of it, but I do remember in the ultras I've done, there was just a creativity in the wardrobe and attitude of all the athletes. I remember going to an event and, seeing like tie, dye, tall socks, and people running in Hawaiian shirts and it just immediately broke down. [00:07:47] Any kind of performance anxiety, because it just felt like we're there for an experience. And whether you're, this amazing 60 year old runner with a long white beard or, a new athlete in their twenties, like everybody just wanted to be part of this experience in the wilderness. Totally. [00:08:09] Yeah. And then gravel's obviously the same way. And I love that about it. I love, I think it's just this great reminder. Anytime I see someone wearing a Hawaiian shirt or doing something goofy on the bike that, we're just out there acting like kids and just, triggering that element of our psyche. [00:08:26] Gavin Coombs: [00:08:26] Absolutely. Yeah. It's just fun, and. Obviously there's becoming as with anything the more popular it gets a level of professionalization that's happening which has bound to happen. And I don't think it's bad for the sport because I think ultimately people are still the majority of people out there riding gravel and doing a lot of these events are just having fun with it. [00:08:43]Like wearing jorts and like you said, like Hawaiian shirts and it's just about having fun, and that's the most important thing. [00:08:49] Craig Dalton: [00:08:49] So that obviously plays a role in any event design, just to set the stage for everybody listening, who may not be familiar with Colorado. [00:08:58] Can you just talk [00:09:00] about where the event is located and maybe a little bit about what the terrain looks like? [00:09:06] Gavin Coombs: [00:09:06] Totally. Yeah. Generally we're in the, what's considered the front range of the Rocky mountains, which is the Eastern edge of the Rockies. And most people are at least familiar with Boulder. [00:09:16]We are about 15 ish miles West of Boulder and about 3000 feet higher. The race. Is all at elevation starts about 8,200 feet. Never goes below 8,000 tops out at about 10,300 hundred feet. And so it's hilly, there's there's, you're up and down the whole time. There's not really any flight section whatsoever, and that's just kind of part of the geographic nature of where we live. [00:09:41] It's. It is mountainous. We're at the base here at 8,000 feet. We're at the base of a whole string of 12,000, 13,000 foot mountains. We see, right out our front door and that you get to look at pretty much the entire course, you get The views are just incredible. [00:09:57] You never get up like about treeline or anything, but it's just pretty incredible views. And but it's not in terms of setting the like elevation and the altitude aside, it's really not that much different than what you could find in gravel roads anywhere. Most of the roads are really well-maintained County roads. [00:10:17] And the kind of our long course, which is about 66 miles is about 70% gravel. And so those are just really nice, normal dirt roads that, nothing special about there are a couple of County roads that are a little bit [00:10:30] further out that are a little bit Rocky. [00:10:32]Some kind of like baby head kind of staff and but are easy to To maneuver through definitely it's all very much gravel bike friendly. You certainly wouldn't need a mountain bike or a hardtail mountain bike to do anything that, that th these courses offer [00:10:46] Craig Dalton: [00:10:46] Do you think that terrain is going to be ultimately what, or the climbing is ultimately what breaks up this race? [00:10:52] Is it the type of event that riders can likely stay together from a technical perspective, but ultimately it's going to come down to horsepower. [00:11:00] Gavin Coombs: [00:11:00] I think so. Yeah. There's not really any sections where that are going to favor someone with more technical bike handling skills. [00:11:07]Are like I was saying our, I guess we were considered like the premier race, the, we call it our tungsten course. Cause tungsten was a mineral that is, and it was mine out here. And it's also. The hardest mineral that's mined. And that's what we're calling our hardest course. [00:11:20] And like I said, 66 miles with about 8,300 feet of climbing so pretty stout. And there are a few. Big climbs. And so I think that's really ultimately, what's going to end up separating people and who can adjust to the altitude to, coming someone coming from sea level is going to, have a little bit harder time. [00:11:37] Craig Dalton: [00:11:37] Yeah. I was going to say it's it's always been one thing for me to be in Boulder at 5,000 feet coming up from sea level. But getting up to 8,000 feet is definitely, it definitely has a huge effect physiologically on me. [00:11:50] Gavin Coombs: [00:11:50] Yeah. And it does honestly, with people From Boulder to, it's the the effects of altitude are not like in a linear way. [00:11:56] It's ex it's exponential. So like coming from Boulder to up to [00:12:00] here is about the same from going from sea level to Boulder. And for those who don't know, Boulder sits about 50. Three 5,400 feet. But [00:12:07] Craig Dalton: [00:12:07] yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. So that's definitely going to play a role in it. Why don't we look? Course, by course, and I think it's, always like to tease out as an event organizer, how you thought about creating these routes and what type of challenge did you want to create with each route? [00:12:25] Gavin Coombs: [00:12:25] Yeah. So we really set out when creating these routes when we wanted to keep it's simple, we didn't want to make it overly complicated with more turns than were necessary. And we wanted to highlight, some cool features. So one, we wanted to make sure we got some really Yeah, Epic views in there. [00:12:41]Highlight a couple of the big climbs in the area. And then there's just some cool historical stuff, there's a ghost town that you go through that's been abandoned for. Oh, I don't know about a hundred years or so. And so there are just some cool historical features and some just interesting areas that we wanted to highlight. [00:12:59]And so breaking it down by, we have. Breaking it down course. By course we have three course offerings. We call them our tungsten course, our gold course and our silver course which were all minerals, mined in this area. And the gold course and the tungsten course start and they share the same first 20 miles or so. [00:13:18]And They both hit, that really big the first, really big, long climb. It's about five miles with 1500 feet of climbing. That's pretty Rocky. You need to, pay attention to pay attention when climbing it for sure. And then they [00:13:30] diverge in the tungsten course continues on and hits another big climb before coming back into town and doing another loop that all describe it a second, but, and then the gold course continues on, in a different direction, which stays on the road a little bit more. [00:13:43] So the gold course, if someone's coming in and wante…

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In the Dirt 17: Essential gear for early morning rides Mar 16, 2021

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This week Randall and Craig discuss the essential gear for early morning and evening rides. Go to gear for every gravel cyclist.

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DT SWISS - Taylor Bushong talks gravel wheels Mar 09, 2021

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This week we talk with Taylor Bushong from DT SWISS about gravel wheels. We dig into the considerations surrounding rim width and wheel sizes to tease out the considerations when upgrading your wheels. We also get a glimpse into the company's interesting history. DT Swiss Website The Ridership Forum Support the Podcast Full Episode Transcription: DT Swiss Craig: [00:00:00] [00:00:00]Hello and welcome to the gravel ride podcast. I'm your host Craig Dalton. [00:00:10]This week on the podcast i'm excited to welcome taylor bushong from dt swiss to the show. [00:00:15]We're going to explore a little bit of the interesting history behind DT Swiss as the company. But also critically explore some of the dimensions and rim technology and some of the features. You need to be considering when looking at wheel sets. [00:00:30]Before we jump in, I need to thank this week, sponsors our friends at athletic greens, the most comprehensive daily nutritional beverage I've ever tried. As you know, if you've been a listener, I've been a athletic greens customer for about three years. And I really consider it the fundamental building block. [00:00:48] Of my, sometimes less than perfect nutritional strategy. [00:00:52]With so many life stressors this last year and into 2021 with the COVID pandemic, it's difficult to maintain effective [00:01:00] nutritional habits and give our bodies the nutrients. It needs to thrive where their busy schedules, our workouts are tough rides. We simply cannot eat enough of the right foods and it can leave us deficient in key nutrients. [00:01:13]For me, that's where athletic greens slips in with 75 vitamins minerals and whole foods sourced ingredients. Including multivitamins, multi minerals, probiotic. Green superfood blend and more. They all work together to fill that nutritional gap in my diet, increase energy and focus aid with digestion and support a healthy immune system. [00:01:35] All without having to take multiple products or pills. So, if you're interested in more information, please visit athleticgreens.com/thegravelride gravel ride. They've been a long time supporter of the show and you having curiosity about what they provide is very important to me and the podcast. So thanks for visiting [00:02:00] www.athleticgreens.com/thegravelride to check them out. [00:02:02] [00:02:02]One further note from last week's episode where Randall had a great interview with Ted Wong. I'm definitely curious to get your feedback on that episode. It's a bit of a departure and something I felt strongly was well within Randall's wheelhouse. To conduct that type of interview and really extract those points about motivations around why we ride. [00:02:24] I was excited to hear it myself. It was great being on the other side of this feed and getting delivered at episode I enjoyed. So if you have any specific feedback about that episode, definitely hit me up or visit us in theRidership forum. www.theridership.com to let us know your thoughts. With that said let's dive right in to this week show. [00:02:46]Taylor welcome to the show. [00:02:48] Taylor: [00:02:48] Thanks. Glad to be here. [00:02:49]Craig: [00:02:49] Yeah. I'm excited to have you and just kind of dig into wheel technology and rim technology for the listener. I think so many people, obviously we get a wheel [00:03:00] set with the bike we buy from the bike shop and at the onset, we don't think too much about it, but as we get into the sport more and more and learn a bit more. [00:03:10] A replacement wheel set, a wheel set upgrade is always been one of those things that can really increase the performance of a bike. So it's going to be great to dig into some of those details with you. [00:03:22] Taylor: [00:03:22] Yeah. Yeah. I mean, as you know, as we all know, you're the motor on a bike, so the more efficient you can make that motor the the better time you're going to have, whether it's a update in the wheel or anything along the lines. [00:03:34] So [00:03:34] Craig: [00:03:34] right on, we'll tell her, let's start off by just learning a little bit more about you and get a brief background about you as a cyclist. And then let's talk about some of the storied history of DT Swiss as a brand. [00:03:46]Taylor: [00:03:46] Okay. Yeah. Not that I have an incredibly exciting cycling background. I studied exercise physiology in college that got me real excited on you know, more endurance during sports. [00:03:56] I grew up in Valdez, Alaska, where there's a [00:04:00] heavy adrenaline rush. You know, upbringing there, you have snowmobiles snowboards, all that sort of business. So I'm the kind of the combination of the two led me to more, more of the the Enduro free rides type mountain biking. But then as I went through the schooling there got realized that cardiovascular health is a very important for longevity. [00:04:20] So I started making roads into the more narrow, tired drop bar realm and been. Yeah, recreationally and recreationally competitively riding bikes for probably seven, eight years now. Right. And how long have you been working at DT Swiss? Yeah. So I am rounding out year with, with DT and I am the representative for North America in most of the marketing activities, whether that's a road, mountain gravel, I'm just kind of the liaison between our think tank over in Switzerland and the us market and North American market in general. [00:04:58] So. [00:04:58] Craig: [00:04:58] Nice for [00:05:00] me as someone who's been around the sport for a while. I always think about DT Swiss in terms of the hubs. When we were talking earlier, before the broadcast, you were telling me about some of the rich history of the company, and I'd love for the listener to understand more about DT Swiss and what was the origins of the company? [00:05:19] Taylor: [00:05:19] Yeah, that's a great question. And you know, when most people revert back to the, the huggy hub and the star ratchet system, as knowing though that's the identity of DET we actually have a long lineage. It's been in Switzerland for many, many years. DT as most people know it started with a management buyout in 1994 from United wire works. [00:05:39]And United wire works was a manufacturer spokes in Switzerland, probably since then, early 1930s. And prior to that if you're aware of what drawn wire was used for in Switzerland as, as a very neutral area in Europe that's where the hired mercenaries lived and worked. And that drawn wire was [00:06:00] actually used to make chain mail. [00:06:01] So way back in the day this drawn wire was used for chain mail and it slowly, it started working its way into bicycles as that, you know, turn of the century became a little more. Exciting to do. And then in 94 our current man, our current owners you know, did a management buyout. And at that time they had three skews of spokes. [00:06:20] That was the revolution, the competition and the champion. So since 1994, our portfolio has grown to having a skew chart. So big that I can't tell you everything that's on it today. So. It's kind of a short, skinny, amazing. So that says it, suffice it to say that it sounds like DT Swiss as whoever figured out to put metal spokes on a bicycle DT Swiss sounds like they were around for when that happened. [00:06:48] And we're supplying spokes to the first wheels that were ever made. Yeah. And, and I don't want to say that was DT Swiss at that time. It would have been United wire works. But yeah, I mean, long, [00:07:00] long ago they realized that the stainless steel or steel in a spoke provided a better ride quality than you know, wooden spokes or something. [00:07:08] So since then it's been the meat and potatoes kind of, of DT Swiss. Spoke to themselves. So [00:07:14] Craig: [00:07:14] interesting. Well, I wanted to speak to you as an expert on wheels and wheels technology, because I, as I said earlier, I think a lot of listeners think about getting an upgraded wheel set for their bike and with gravel as with everything in this sector of the sport. [00:07:29] There's so many variables to consider whether it's. The size of wheel between 706 50 B the type of spoke the type of Ram. So kind of Le let's break down the wheel set for people and just talk about those different components and the effect it has on ride quality. For example. [00:07:49] Taylor: [00:07:49] Yeah. So that's a good place to start with, with anyone looking for any sort of upgrade or, or, you know, entry-level or any sort of level of bike. [00:07:58] My first question would [00:08:00] be, what is your intended purpose? What are you trying to get out of the ride? What are you trying to get out of the bike? Because that could really, that could really narrow down your selection and make it a lot easier to digest. I mean, we're in. The today's the day and age where you can pretty much anything under the sun is available. [00:08:15] If your pocket book is large enough. So that's, that's the best place to start is what are the intended needs of the, of the rider and then going from there. [00:08:25] Craig: [00:08:25] How broad would you like if we were having, if you were asking me about it, what are the broad categories we're talking about there? Are we talking about a spectrum from. [00:08:34] Hey, I want to race my gravel bike on one side too. Hey, I want to go on a bike packing trip on the other side. [00:08:41] Taylor: [00:08:41] Yeah, that's, that's a great question as well. And that's why I think the gravel space is so cool is because there's not the biggest definition of you know, what a gravel bike is. I went to an event I guess that was two years ago now where I had never seen a flat bars on a six 50 B with a frame bag and a dropper post, but that's [00:09:00] gravel and that's, that's, that's just fine. [00:09:01] So there's there's categories from, you know, more skinny tire. Not DK. Oh, what is that one called now? Unbound gravel. Yes. There's, you know, more skinnier tire events like Unbound gravel, or more party type atmosphere with a bigger tire like grinders. So or any bike packing needs in between. [00:09:20] So whether it's recreational or racing, there's also different avenues within those within gravel and particularly picking a particular wheel to match your needs. I think. Goes far better than than just getting something off the, off the shelf and going from there. [00:09:35]Craig: [00:09:35] Before we blow out and sort of talk about wheel sizes and rim diameters, let's start at the hub. [00:09:42] Is there, are there things that we should be considering when looking for a wheel set in terms of comparing one hub to another, for example? [00:09:49] Taylor: [00:09:49] Well, in general I would say, GRA gravel can get you into some places kind of far away from any sort of support. So, number one, to me, my thoughts would [00:10:00] be durability reliability of those products, but also that comes off a little bias as I am you know, work for DT. [00:10:06] And, you know, the, the restart ratchet hub has been pretty, pretty strong for many, many years. So yeah, hubs As long as you have something that's durable, reliable engagement is somewhat of a question, you know, but also drag is, is another thing to keep in mind because you are going to be on these these bicycles for a really long period of time, not have to be, but that's kind of the allure of gravel as well. [00:10:31] Craig: [00:10:31] Is there a way to quantify these things sort of beyond the reputation of the hub manufacturer? [00:10:37]Taylor: [00:10:37] You know, there that's, that's a good question. And getting me kind of on point here. I don't know if we actually have exact data that says you know, one system or one type of system is better than another. But yeah, that's definitely something that I should follow up on with you and see if I can provide more info. [00:10:54] Craig: [00:10:54] Yeah. Not to put you on the spot. Cause I do think, you know, for me, oftentimes I seek out. [00:11:00] The reputation of the brand to get a sense from other writers as to the hubs durability, but at the end of the day, you know, who knows how hard people are riding these products when they're giving me their personal feedback, you know it's going to vary a ton, I imagine. [00:11:16] Taylor: [00:11:16] Yeah. Yeah. And the, and the interesting thing that we see with gravel especially is you get kind of in a In the middle ground between the road, you know, road grupos and mountain group hose, and people are mixing and matching certain things and you can get really big cassettes that put more torque on the, you know, on the hub driving systems. [00:11:36] So that that's where a durable, reliable hub in a gravel wheel is pretty important because you can get these super low gear ratios. And if your bikes weighed down and you're pedaling up a steep Hill, that's you got to think that that's Wearing on your equipment, a little more than a you know, a smaller cog set with a, you know, a road road set up on there. [00:11:54] So [00:11:55]Craig: [00:11:55] that's a good point that it's so interesting to think about because obviously we're all these [00:12:00] bikes, regardless of what category and you're pedaling the bike. You're putting some torque on your components and onto the wheel set. But thinking about how you apply torque to the bike on a mountain biker, gravel bike is obviously different than sort of the consistent power you're often putting into a road bike. [00:12:18]So if we, if we move out from the hub now we're then into the spokes. Is there a modern kind of sort of average number of spokes that people are putting in these wheels? Or is it, is it all over the board? Is that something that as a buyer you need to consider at this point? [00:12:33] Taylor: [00:12:33] Yeah. You know, if, if you have some specific needs you know, in terms of, you know, that you're going to. [00:12:39] Put all of your life on this bike. Then, you know a higher spoke count is probably, is probably the, the place to go. But I would say most you know, speaking for our brand itself, DT itself we've, we've settled in at 24. Spokes is for the, for the gravel or application, but we also do have. [00:12:57] Components that are available, that if a [00:13:00] driver has specific needs, you can bump that to 28 32 holes. So it, you know, our system wheels not to get into our product, right. Right out the gate we're fixed on a 24 hole setup, but yeah, there's different, you know, different needs require different products. [00:13:16] So there are, [00:13:17] Craig: [00:13:17] is it safe to assume then that your mountain bike wheel sets would have more than 24 spokes? [00:13:23] Taylor: [00:13:23] That is safe to say. And the DT mountain bike wheel lines, if it's a you know, out of the box, DT set is going to be a 28 hole. [00:13:31] Craig: [00:13:31] Okay. And then do they go even less for road wheels or is 24 kind of where you landed there as well? [00:13:37]Taylor: [00:13:37] 24 is where we landed with our road wheel lineup. If you start getting into rim brake road wheels with the less, you know, less torque off the hub itself and more on the rim there are options that have 20 and 21 holes. Actually our road wheels have like an asymmetric lacing where two to one on the rear wheels. [00:13:54] So it just kind of depends on the intended use of that product. And that's where You know, knowing, [00:14:00] knowing kind of what you're going for is, is a great place to start. And then, then folks can help you nar…

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Ted Huang - Mental Performance Expert. Why do we ride? Mar 02, 2021

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On this week's podcast, we kick off a series of conversations about the meanings and motivations that underlie why we ride. Our first guest is two-time Olympian (wind surfing), former Pro cyclist, Pro team founder, Sport Psychologist, friend, and Ridership member Ted Huang. Together Ted and I explored collaborative vs. coercive team dynamics, the power of vulnerability in leadership, intrinsic vs. extrinsic motivation, perfectionism and the inner critic, flow states, mindfulness, inclusion and belonging, and other aspects of the riding experience that extend and indeed originate well beyond the bike. The goal of these episodes is to spark conversation that is of value to the community and its members, and we hope you'll join us over at the The Ridership forum (sign up at www.theridership.com) with your ideas, questions, and feedback. Ted Huang Website Ted Huang Instagram Support the Podcast Join The Ridership Ted Huang - Episode Transcription [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to the gravel ride podcast. I'm Randall Jacobs, and this is the first in a series of episodes that Craig has graciously invited me to host in which i'll be bringing on guests to unpack the meaning and motivations that underlie why we ride. [00:00:12]Like Craig's episodes and our joint In The Dirt series, these episodes will simply appear in your feed as they're produced. [00:00:18] Randall R. Jacobs: [00:00:18] Before we get started. I'd just like to encourage anyone who enjoys the podcast to support Craig in his work by going to buymeacoffee.com/thegravelride and making a donation. [00:00:28]My first guest is Ted Huang. Ted is a two time Olympian in the sport of wind surfing, a former cat one road racer who competed in professional races here in the U S, a co- founder of two professional teams, one men's and one women's, and finally he is a sports psychologist who helps elite and amateur athletes alike achieve both their performance goals and a more balanced life through cycling. And with that, let's get started. [00:00:53] Ted Huang, welcome to the podcast. So glad to have you on. [00:00:57] Ted Huang: [00:00:57] Thank you. [00:00:58]Randall R. Jacobs: [00:00:58] So this is the first [00:01:00] in a series of conversations here on the pod, talking about this concept of ridership. This concept is pretty broad in the sense, you and I have discussed before around, fellowship and friendship and the bicycle is a vehicle for connection and what does this experience mean in a deeper sense? So I'm really excited to explore this with you. If you could give the audience a quick sense of your background, where you come from and what you do now? [00:01:23]Ted Huang: [00:01:23] I was born in the Bay area, Sunnyvale native, and I wasn't really into team sports so much when I was younger, I had a couple of bad experiences and ended up falling into the sport called windsurfing some of you may have heard of, it's basically a surfboard with the sales stuck on top that you hang on to and then go cruise to different places. So it's really the ultimate exploration machine on the water. [00:01:49] And I did that starting the age of 11. Very supportive parents started competing, ended up going to two Olympics in wind surfing and then [00:02:00] also loved the sport of cycling and actually went into road racing. I wanted to see how far I could take that sport just for fun cause I wanted to try something more aerobicly challenging and little did I know road cycling actually was much more of a team sport and help me develop my sense of belonging to something. So I was part of a team really took to the teammates, actually co-founded two professional cycling teams of men's and women's teams, and did that for a number of years. [00:02:33] And it just made me realize this whole power of many trumps the power of one in terms of satisfaction and reward. So that really helped me find my way to what I'm doing today, which is a mental performance coach. Went back, got my degree in sports psychology, and now trying to help people become the best versions of themselves, or be more comfortable in their own skins. [00:02:58]Randall R. Jacobs: [00:02:58] That resonates [00:03:00] granted I didn't go quite as far in my professional athletics career. I was a pack fodder pro cross country racer. [00:03:06]Ted Huang: [00:03:06] That's not what I hear, but yeah. [00:03:07]Randall R. Jacobs: [00:03:07] I was a decent local competitor at one point. [00:03:10]And at this point my relationship to the bike has shifted a lot and I really want to explore what is the deeper meaning of this experience? So you talked about connection, for example, and in fact, I recall very fondly being on a group ride and meeting you and we had a brief conversation and it was less the conversation itself than the feeling of here's somebody who's really kind who wants to include everyone in the ride experience . So when we started this off, it was very natural to reach out. [00:03:35] Ted Huang: [00:03:35] Likewise, when I first met you, it was like this very positive and curious person who was so impassioned by not just cycling. Now it all seems aligned, that you wanted to share the same sense of community with your cycling experience to others, and maybe that's part of your thesis bikes vision is, creating that sense of community with other people. [00:03:59] [00:04:00]To me it doesn't matter why we ride, how fast we ride, how slow we ride. It's just that we get out there. And that's the most important thing, because I don't know how many times people like, Oh, I don't want to ride with you. You're gonna be too fast or whatever. I'll be too slow . It doesn't really matter. Don't apologize for anything about your speed or your technique, because I'll be the first one to say, I suck at mountain biking, my technical skills are horrible. But I still enjoy it for the same reasons and you're right. It takes time and self-belief and confidence to get past that. I still have trouble, that lack of confidence and things you don't know how to do, but that's the whole neat thing about cycling is there's no shortage of people out there to help you who want to help you. And going back to community, that would probably be the common theme here is that helps build that sense because we all want each other to have fun. At least the riders I want to ride with are like that. [00:04:52]Randall R. Jacobs: [00:04:52] Yeah, I definitely recall when I was racing particularly within the roadie scene to a lesser extent, the mountain bike scene have a [00:05:00] really strong competitive element. And there was almost on the one hand a masochistic need to suffer and a glorification of suffering. And I can suffer more than you and somehow that's a source of worth. [00:05:11] And then also I'm going to punish the other riders. I'm going to rip your legs off. I'm going to make your lungs burn and I think it feeds a baser instinct than the reasons I ride and the types of riders I'm attracted to now why they ride and the opportunity for riding and the bicycle itself to be a vehicle for connection . So I'm curious tell me about the transition for you from a wind surfing to riding on a team. What age? Was there a lot of overlap? Was the bike tool for training. [00:05:41]Ted Huang: [00:05:41] So my high school graduation present was a 1988 Bianchi Superleggera Columbus SLSB tubing, beautiful bike. I bought it from a ski shop and I loved riding it, but it was just a cross-training tool and I just [00:06:00] liked the aerobic nature kind of allowed me to get into that quote unquote zone more quickly than having to drive 45 minutes, unpack your wind surfer, build it up. So basically, it's just a much more efficient way to get that. So I really took to it, but transitioning from the wind surfing, it was just so gear oriented I would be going around the world, carrying the 12 and a half foot long Wind Surfer for, with the 16 and a half foot mast show up to every airline counter, and you think bicycles are hard to transport. I'm showing up there and I'm like, "Hey, my name's Ted. I'm part of this team would you mind the excess baggage fees?". It was like basically a panic attack before every trip, because Airline desk people would be shaking their heads as I'm walking to the desk with all this stuff, in luggage carts and it was just stressful. [00:06:48] So once I was done with my wind surfing career after the 2000 Olympics I was at the time cross training with cycling and taking a step back. I will say that in 2000 I [00:07:00] telecommuted, full-time from Sydney, Australia training for the Sydney Olympics and the only new friends I made were from the cycling and triathlon community that year. [00:07:11] Cause I was cross training in their local equivalent of central park, New York, but Centennial park in Sydney, and I did some of the group training rides and people were so nice. So that helped build my good vibe feeling towards cycling. So when I was done with the Sydney Olympics, I literally stopped windsurfing, cold Turkey and decided I would immerse myself in cycling. And there happened to be this bike race in San Francisco that went up the streets of San Francisco, the really hilly ones, and Lance Armstrong came and they had all the European teams came. So it was quite a big event. So that was my goal was to get in there, but. [00:07:48]But really the only way to get in there with it to somehow turn your team professional. So I think I joked with the earlier, my dream was to get the free bike. I had to start my own pro team to get the free bike, so the hard way [00:08:00] getting to that point. But in the process, I just became so fascinated with human behavior, so that was also my degree at Stanford in college, but just the human behavioral component and having all these just. So talented in the lab teammates who couldn't quite put it together on the race course, whereas you'd have other less talented, physiologically speaking, cyclists who were just spot on, they could just do what you told them to do very consistent. [00:08:32] And it was all in the attitude all in the mind. But with the team , you could leverage each other's strengths and weaknesses and actually build a better team. It almost didn't matter. It's almost like a puzzle. You could just put together the different pieces and if you lead them correctly, then you have a pretty successful team. [00:08:51]Randall R. Jacobs: [00:08:51] So what do you see as the critical elements of healthy team dynamics? [00:08:55]Ted Huang: [00:08:55] I think leadership by example is extremely important. [00:09:00] I also think that the team leader needs to be very open and transparent with other teammates on his own strengths and weaknesses. [00:09:11]I really gained the most from the one year we had Chris Horner on our team and why he was such an effective leader is he would figure out all of our strengths and weaknesses and then he would maximize our strengths. So he'd be like, " Ted, you're not really a climber, so get me to the bottom of the Hill and you're done". So he would set these little milestones for me that were very incremental or for teammates. So what was incredibly special is, he harnessed our strengths and made us feel good about them and let us essentially celebrate them without tearing us down, he wouldn't tell us, "just keep pulling at the front". He would give us very specific instructions. We want to keep the break at 30 seconds. Don't pull too hard. He was very specific. And because he gave these incremental milestones to each of us, it empowered us to really step up in that [00:10:00] to me was important. And also our team director for the women, Karen Brehms, she treated everyone with respect and everyone fairly and the same. [00:10:08]Granted, I was the quote unquote team owner dating one of the women on the team. So I got extra " don't mess with my team dynamic" direction from Karen. It was very clear she wanted to preserve a team that felt equitable amongst its ranks. So there was really almost no room for backroom talk or talking behind people's backs. [00:10:30] Everything was open. And I don't know how many of the women came back and told Karen that was the best team experience they've ever had because of the team dynamic she helped create. So those are parts of what I think are important to creating a successful team environment, but also doing what you say you're going to do for the management level to we paid our riders on time. [00:10:50] We had the pro-team, we were. Oh, it's try to be very organized. And what was really interesting was when the year we had Chris Horner, we had a first time director, [00:11:00] super smart guy, but never directed a team before. So he just let Chris essentially handle the rains and you just help facilitate. [00:11:07] So knowing your strengths and your weaknesses and being willing to learn is also another important component of a team dynamic that will create a successful path. And also specific goals. Of course we can't underestimate the power of goal setting and the aspirational goal. [00:11:25] Our goal as the men's team was " we want to see if we can win the San Francisco grand Prix, our budget was missing two zeros compared to every other team and they're race so it was like, How is this going to work, but we just plugged away at it and we acted as professionally as we could. [00:11:42]We had team selections for the race . And Chris Horner on the day asked Charles Dion, how are you feeling? I was pretty sure Chris could have won the race, but Charles who'd won the first edition of the race in 2001 said, "I'm feeling really good". So Chris is okay, I'm writing for you. [00:11:58] So literally [00:12:00] this being so clear in factual and then Charles, knowing he has someone like Chris riding for him stepped up as well as us as the working stiff team stepped up too. And we're able to fill in the gaps. [00:12:14]Randall R. Jacobs: [00:12:14] I'm hearing themes that I find common in any sort of healthy community or even friendship, dynamic ones of an ability to acknowledge one's limitations, but also one's strengths and the strengths and limitations of those around you and discuss it in a very open and vulnerable way. [00:12:29]I'm going to follow up on the things that I said I'll do and this reframing of leadership, I think that in our culture, a common sense of leadership is the person being in charge. [00:12:40] And that is a coercive form of leadership. That's something taken versus a leadership that is given due to the merits. We all lead in different ways in a healthy team. How talk to me more about like your experience within the team dynamic and how that evolved over time, what you learned. [00:12:57]Ted Huang: [00:12:57] So what's interesting to me. I want to go back actually [00:13:00] really quickly, the first comment about the roadie- type competitive attitude. So I came into cycling is just like a new hobby. I had no intention of really being that serious. My goal is to become a Cat 1 and I did that. So I didn't really have another goal after that , I never had a five-year plan, so that's maybe a problem, but also helped shape who I am today. So I just fell into things [00:13:25] an accidental pro? [00:13:27] Yeah, totally. Because I never was paid to ride a bike, so I'm not really professional. I feel if you make your livelihood, riding a bike, then you're professional, but I never did that. I ran a team it was back in the day when you had to…

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Matt Kadey: Bikepacker, route designer and adventurer Feb 23, 2021

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This week we sit down with Matt Kadey to unpack (pun intended) the world of bike packing and route design. Matt has designed adventures in Columbia, Costa Rica and Canada. We learn about the design of routes, the idea of the Grand Depart and tools we can all use to design adventures.

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In the Dirt 16: Origins and Ego Feb 16, 2021

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This week Randall and Craig take a look back at how each of them found 'the bike' and think back to how ego played a role in improving as a cyclist. Fast forward to today, we reflect on how ego has largely disappeared and our enjoyment of the sport comes more naturally and independent of competition.

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Patrick Carey - 5 skills every gravel cyclist needs to master Feb 09, 2021

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This week we sit down with Patrick Carey from Speed Science Coaching to look at the 5 skills every gravel cyclist needs to master. Whether you come from road or mtb, gravel demands an adaptation of your existing skillset. Patrick drills into 5 foundation level skills you need to know.

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Show notes:

Floating Through Rough Terrain

This is something that riders coming from the road are going to find different right away. From rough surfaces and washboard to big bumps and holes, on gravel we have to be more fluid and let the bike float around more. This bike-body separation can feel very foreign to someone who's used to a relatively static position. Being able to move around on the bike and to be engaged, but not tense, allows for increased speed and fun, while also being way less tiring.

Learning to hop over holes, bumps and rocks is a huge help on gravel. Many things can be cleared with the "roadie hop" where we jump up and pull the bike up to us. When we need more height, learning a true bunny hop that uses a row/anti-row motion allows us to clear some very large obstacles. There is a video demonstrating this on the Speed Science Coaching YouTube channel. It's demonstrated on a mountain bike, but the movement is the same no matter what type of bike we're on.

Turning

This is the next thing people experience. Where did all the traction go? On gravel we have to make the most of what traction we have. This means leaning the bike over without leaning ourselves with it. Getting our weight on that outside pedal and off the saddle will help the bike hook up and will give us a good position for controlling any slides.

Also, steering inputs at the bars will often result in the front wheel sliding out if we're going over 5-7 mph. That's why learning to lean the bike is vitally important. When we come into a loose corner too hot, it's important to commit to this lean and stay off the brakes. If we start to wrestle with the steering or we get onto the front brake, we are making that turn even more difficult.

Braking

Learning to use our brakes independently, especially the front brake is very important. When we need a lot of braking power that front brake is going to give us 70-80% of our total braking, especially if the surface is very loose. Along with this, learning to brake in places where the traction is good allows us to get a lot of braking done and then get back off the brakes where the traction is worse. Our tires have to deal with many forces and braking robs traction from turning. It also can tend to stand the bike upright and make turning difficult even when traction is good.

Learning to really modulate those brakes will help us avoid skidding (unless we're trying to show off and then skid away!).

Climbing

9:02

This is something that will be very new for riders coming from the road - going uphill and having the rear tire spin out. There are some tricks we can do here with pedaling smoothly, rather than just all on the down-stroke. We can also use our gearing to help add traction. Spinning can help when traction is decent, but leaves us more likely to spin out. A slightly taller gear will help with a move even, round application of power. It's also much better if we have to stand up to navigate a feature in the climb like a rock, hole or ledge.

Changing our body position to hover above the saddle and also to get our chest lower to the bars will help keep our weight centered on the bike. This gives weight to our rear wheel, allows for a bit of float, and it prevents the front wheel from rising up on really steep climbs.

Descending

What goes up must come down. Descending on gravel can be super fun if we're able to relax and let the bike float around. Being able to get low and into the drops gives us more control, but it can be awkward with a high saddle position. This is where a dropper post can help a gravel bike come alive. It allows us to get much lower on the bike and to create a proper separation. Hinging over at the hips, rather than arching our backs pushes our weight back. This balances our weight over the pedals and gets us out of a squatting position, which can be exhausting for our quads. It also allows our arms to relax, because they're not carrying our body weight. This allows for engaged control of the bike without being tense. Tension is exhausting and it makes the bike handle very poorly.

Bonus Tip: Looking Forward

On the road we can often get away with looking wherever. As long as we're looking generally ahead of us, there usually aren't too many surprises. On gravel, the surface and features are far less predictable. Keeping our eyes up prevents surprises and allows us to choose lines through and around these features. Seeing what's coming and envisioning our line through it before we get there allows for a feeling of flow and relaxation. Not to mention it's safer, faster and more fun.

Zachary Lambert - Blackheart Bike Co. Jan 26, 2021

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This week we sit down with Zachary Lambert, founder of Blackheart Bike Co. in Venice, CA. Zach walks us through the brand's namesake titanium frame and his new retail venture Luft launching in March 2021.

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In the Dirt 15: Full Frame bags, Farr Twin-T and flat bar gravel bikes Jan 19, 2021

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This week we look at the options a full-frame bag creates for gravel cyclists as well as a look at the new Farr Twin-T. Finally, we dive into a discussion of flat-bar gravel bikes and drop-bar mountain bikes to explore the various edges of the sport.

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Gregor von Medeazza - The Munga, South Africa's 'Toughest Race in the World' Jan 12, 2021

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Part 2 of my discussion with Gregor von Medeazza and his experiences at The Munga in South Africa. Gregor showcases his determination and equipment choices on his way to surviving this 1000km gravel event dubbed 'The World's Toughest Race'. Gregor reveals the backdrop of his motivation, raising awareness for The Bicycle Empowerment Network Namibia.

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