Stay ConnectedAnyone paying attention can tell you that our criminal legal system is perpetuating cruelty and harm, but the complexity of the legal world overwhelms most people simply trying to get through another day.
Public Defenseless explores the rot in the justice system and what we can do about it. Join host, Hunter Parnell, as he interviews top defense attorneys and criminal justice stakeholders from across the country as they pull apart the convoluted web of our criminal justice system.
From the denial of basic healthcare needs to decades in solitary confinement, prisoners stuck in the Massachusetts prison system face near daily deprivation of basic human and Constitutional rights. Today, Hunter spoke with Elizabeth Matos to understand how her organization, Prisoners' Legal Services of Massachusetts, challenges this system of relentless brutality.
Guest:
Elizabeth Matos, Executive Director, Prisoners' Legal Services of Massachusetts
Key Topics:
How Lizz's family history got her into this line of work [6:55]
The problems in Massachusetts' Prisons [10:09]
Are there other organizations working to solve this problem? [14:17]
What do communities miss out on when they don't have a PLSMA type org [17:12]
The lack of healthcare in Massachusetts' Prisons [19:35]
Specific challenges females face in regard to lack of healthcare [22:41]
How the legislature is responding to this issue [29:30]
Staff Assaults in Massachusetts' Prisons [33:56]
Solutions for the Staff Assault problem [41:27]
Other issues with confinement in Massachusetts' Prisons [47:50]
Issues with Solitary Confinement [56:00]
Race and Equity Initiatives [1:02:00]
The year ahead for PLSMA [1:06:00]
Ensuring the voices of the incarcerated are heard when crafting solutions [1:11:00]
Resources:
Email Lizz
lmatos@plsma.org
PLSMA
Walpole Prison Riot
https://nvdatabase.swarthmore.edu/content/us-prisoners-take-control-walpole-prison-1973
Annie Dookhan
Contact Hunter Parnell:
hwparnell@publicdefenseless.com
@PublicDefenselessPodcast
@PDefenselessPod
While not a small county, Yolo County California does not have the size or resources to match the major metropolitan areas of San Francisco, Oakland, L.A., or Sacramento. Yet somehow, Tracie Olson, Chief Public Defender Yolo County, and her team at the Yolo County Public Defender Office are able to maintain a strong holistic public defense practice.
Despite a $16 million dollar budget shortfall compared to the prosecutors, Tracie has been able to establish her office as a pillar in the community. If the county and the state of California were to finally fund the office at even 85% of what the prosecutor's office received, the health and safety of Yolo County could reach heights no one thought possible!
Guest:
Tracie Olson, Chief Public Defender, Yolo County Public Defender Office
Key Topics:
How Tracie got started in Indigent Defense [8:30]
Demographics and layout of Yolo County California [13:25]
Where the Yolo County Public Defender Office sits California's Public Defense System [15:30]
Funding disparity between California Prosecutors and Public Defenders, and what Tracie can do despite the disparity [17:43]
Community Response to the disparity in Prosecutor and Public Defense Funding [21:20]
The impacts of the "tough on crime" media narratives over the past few years on Yolo County [27:50]
Trying to address the housing issue in Yolo County [37:30]
What can't the Yolo County PD office do because of the funding shortage and how is the community hurt as a result [41:25]
Making Public Defense more than a "check box" system [48:20]
Yolo County PD community outreach programs [54:45]
What does California need to do to support public defense? [1:05:45]
Resources:
Yolo County Public Defender Office
https://www.yolocounty.org/government/general-government-departments/law-justice/public-defender
Yolo County Public Defender Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/YoloPublicDefense/?modal=admin_todo_tour
Yolo County Public Defender Twitter
https://twitter.com/yolopubdefense
Contact Hunter Parnell:
hwparnell@publicdefenseless.com
@PublicDefenselessPodcast
@PDefenselessPod
Why are some state's public defense systems so strong while others are so weak?
This week, Hunter speaks for a second time with David Carroll, the Executive Director of the Sixth Amendment Center. David highlights a handful of reports that his organization conducted in an attempt to improve the public defense systems of many different states.
First, David talks about Oakland Michigan, a now strong system because of the Sixth Amendment Center's findings. Then, he'll go into a weaker system—New Hampshire. Taking you through the ins and outs of this complicated government, you'll learn exactly why change in this state has been so difficult.
Hunter and David end the episode by delving into the Illinois and Lake County, California reports and how the Sixth Amendment has improved the systems in these locations as well.
This episode highlights the fact that systems can still be bad even with well-intentioned individuals at the helm. However, David will instill you with true hope that positive change is on the horizon.
Key Topics/Takeaways:
Guest:
David Caroll, Executive Director, Sixth Amendment Center
Resources:
Sixth Amendment Center Reports
Memorable Quotes:
"Systems in America, whether that be indigent defense or otherwise, do not need to have a bad person running them for them to fail. In fact, it can be even more difficult for well-intentioned people to correct a system that they are responsible for because it is so much harder for them to see past their own good intentions." (2:40, Hunter)
"People don't even see it anymore. It's ethical blindness right in front of them. And so it takes a group like ours to come in and hold a mirror up and say, no, look at what's actually playing out in all these things." (24:43, David)
"Now that we've solved the compensation issue, once those plans get implemented and in place, once caseloads can be enforced, I think Michigan's well on the way to being one of the better systems in the country." (39:28, David)
"I think a lot of people that want criminal justice reform think that criminal justice systems were rationally constructed. Like someone sat down and said, this is the best way to do it for us. And it's absolutely not the case. It's just piecemeal." (1:08:22, David)
"I am hopeful. I am the eternal optimist. You can't be doing this work for over 25 years and not be hopeful." (1:39:10, David)
Contact Hunter Parnell:
hwparnell@publicdefenseless.com
Since its inception, Supreme Court decisions play a terrifying role in controlling the lives of Americans. Few decisions in living memory now play a greater role than the overturning of Roe v Wade.
To understand the impacts of Dobbs v Jackson, Hunter is joined by three guests from the state of Louisiana. Gwyneth O'Neill is an associate at the law firm Schonekas, Evans, McGoey and McEachin. Ellie Schilling is a partner at the same law firm and serves on the board of the non-profit LIFT Louisiana that Michelle Erenberg is the co-Executive Director.
For decades, anti-abortion activists fought tooth and nail to see Roe v Wade overturned, but now that it is, those same activists are demonstrating a fundamental disregard for the impacts of their actions. With healthcare in a precarious situation around the country, the short sightedness of the activists in paraded throughout the episode.
By going through the history of abortion denying access in the state and the many contradictions in the current laws, Hunter hopes to equip every listener, attorney or not, with the tools needed to push back against those seeking to turn Reproductive Healthcare back to 1865.
Guest:
Gwyneth O'Neill, Associate, Schonekas, Evans, McGoey and McEachin
Ellie Schilling, Partner, Schonekas, Evans, McGoey and McEachin, Board Member Lift Louisiana.
Michelle Erenberg, Co-Executive Director, Lift Louisiana
Key Topics:
How everyone got involved in Reproductive Justice [6:04]
S.B8 Texas [20:20]
Evolution of Anti-Abortion Laws [26:00]
The impacts of changing the definition of when life starts [33:00]
The difficulty of anticipating what comes next with all of the contradictions in the law [49:30]
How does the Legislature respond to the hypocrisy [51:00]
Chilling effects on Drs and other unintended consequences [55:30]
Crisis of Healthcare [1:03:00]
How Lift LA tries to appeal to voters [1:14:00]
The severe lack of expertise from policy makers ;1:17:00]
Criminal Defense Preparing for these cases [1:24:00]
Reporting Standards for Doctors [1:36:00]
Connecting communities with the resources needed to fight back [1:42:00]
What else can the defense bar do to prepare [1:47:00]
Resources:
Lift Louisiana
Follow Lift Louisiana on Twitter
@liftlouisiana
Here's a link to the Abortion Defenders sign up form bit.ly/AbortionDefendersLA
Schonekas, Evans, McGoey and McEachin
ACLU
https://www.aclu.org/other/links-other-reproductive-freedom-sites
Contact Hunter Parnell:
hwparnell@publicdefenseless.com
@PublicDefenselessPodcast
@PDefenselessPod
Right now, a three-attorney public defender office in North Dakota has zero attorneys on staff. And with public defender turnover rates on the rise, the state makes it difficult to provide legal representation for all.
In this episode, Hunter speaks with Travis Finck, the Executive Director of The Commission on Legal Counsel for Indigents (CLCI). He brings with him an infectious optimism and deep knowledge of North Dakota public defense.
The first half of the episode will teach you all about the formation of the public defense system in North Dakota and how it transformed into what it is today.
Then, he'll dive into the unique challenges within the public defense and criminal system of the state. Travis will share how he is responding to high turnover rates and low funding while trying to improve public defense in North Dakota for the better.
With only 20-30% of individuals charged with misdemeanors in the state getting public defenders, it's obvious that many people are going without needed legal representation. Travis dreams of a day when North Dakota can boast a great public defender system.
Key Topics/Takeaways:
Guest:
Travis Finck, Executive Director, The Commission on Legal Counsel for Indigents (CLCI)
Resources:
Memorable Quotes:
"We like to think we have good people, and when you can't pay good people what they're worth, there's natural inclination for them to look elsewhere. And I don't fault them for it." (24:19, Travis)
"Justice delayed is justice denied." (33:06, Travis)
"Us not being able to staff that office is not a public defense issue. That's a criminal justice system-wide issue." (39:41, Travis)
"The people that are doing this work, sure as hell ain't doing it for the money. We're doing it because it's the right thing to do." (40:18, Travis)
"My personal position on the fees is it's the only constitutional right that I'm aware of that's conditioned upon paying a fee." (56:19, Travis)
"I don't wanna be known as a sufficient public defense system. I wanna be known as a great public defense system." (59:44, Travis)
Contact Hunter Parnell:
hwparnell@publicdefenseless.com
For many, the hearing about the opioid epidemic invokes images deindustrialized towns in West Virginia and Kentucky, but it was actually Alabama with the highest rate of per capita prescription.
Today on the show, Hunter Spoke with Leah Nelson, Research Director at Alabama Appleseed, and Stacey Fuller, a Certified Recovery Support Specialist, to discuss the impacts of opioids and addiction in the state of Alabama.
As with most states, Alabama approached addiction not as a illness to be treated, but as a wrong to be punished. For decades, the state failed to provide resources to those battling with addiction and sought to criminalize such behaviors. Predictably, this did little to curb crime, addiction, or overdose deaths.
While it may not happen overnight, Leah and Stacey are certain that by continuing to highlight the issues facing the state, they will be able to turn the state towards a more rehabilitative model.
Guest:
Leah Nelson, Research Director, Alabama Appleseed
Stacey Fuller, Certified Recovery Support Specialist
Key Topics:
How Stacey became involved with the legal system [6:30]
Leah sets the stage for how Alabama approaches the problem of addiction [7:45]
How the system makes addiction more prevalent [13:45]
What is happening at the legislature that enables this? [18:53]
What Stacey provides to people fighting addiction [27:40]
Inroads made with judges and prosecutors to seek non punitive solutions [31:20]
Cost of Addiction in Alabama [33:00]
What has Opioids shown about other drug use in the state [38:45]
How to ensure we don't redo the war on drugs [42:41]
Lack o trust in the system [49:40]
Moving Alabama forward [53:00]
Alabama Felon Registration Card [59:40]
Resources:
Alabama Appleseed Bitter Pill Report
http://alabamaappleseed.org/a-bitter-pill/
Empire of Pain: The Secret History of the Sackler Dynasty
https://www.amazon.com/Empire-Pain-History-Sackler-Dynasty-ebook/dp/B08ND91K6G
Addiction Treatment Centers Alabama
https://americanaddictioncenters.org/treatment-centers/alabama
Contact Hunter Parnell:
hwparnell@publicdefenseless.com
@PublicDefenselessPodcast
@PDefenselessPod
In this episode, Hunter is joined by two inspiring guests from Partners for Justice, a nonprofit organization dedicated to providing support services to people facing criminal charges while helping public defenders protect people from incarceration and other criminal penalties.
Emily Galvin Almanza is the Founder and Co-Executive Director of Partners for Justice, as well as an advocate in the Harris County Public Defender Office. Starting this organization, which is the only one of its kind in existence, she brings insights into its mission and goals. She'll share how holistic representation affects recidivism rates and why it is so effective.
Then, you'll hear from Client Advocate Danielle Hopkins about how she supports her clients by telling their stories and putting the narrative back into their hands. By forcing judges and prosecutors to see her clients as whole people, carceral outcomes have declined.
Finally, you'll learn about cash bail in Harris County and why it is so problematic. In fact, it's causing some innocent people to sit in prison for over a year!
Emily and Danielle dream of a world where people in the indigent system always have top-notch representation. Overall, their work helps people become unstuck from the legal system, turning lives around and saving valuable resources.
[Editoral Note: At the end of the episode, Danielle mentioned SB 26. She was actually refering to SB 6. Furterhmore, the amount of time people spend in Pre-Trial is now commonly ranging from 160-250 days]
Key Topics and Takeaways:
Guests:
Emily Galvin Almanza, Founder and Co-Executive Director Partners for Justice
Danielle Hopkins, Partners for Justice Advocate
Resources:
Memorable Quotes:
"Once you see the sausage getting made, I think it's hard to ever want to eat it again." (20:51, Hunter)
"People who are sitting in jail today cannot wait for policy approaches that accept their suffering as a necessary cost of system change. I think part of an abolitionist approach has to be fighting for radical change, the erasure of an oppressive and racist system in a way that does not accept the non-consensual suffering of others as a necessary cost." (22:37, Emily)
"I feel that this work is actually crucial to undermining the system's ability to perpetually exist as it does. And I feel that we are dismantling it. We're just dismantling it in ways that perhaps are too subtle for people to notice." (26:40, Emily)
"Governments are willing to invest in their public defender once they fully understand what public defenders can do." (36:16, Emily)
"I like completing things and like achieving something and doing this role, I feel like I'm tangibly doing something for clients as opposed to like feeling like I'm just constantly not able to do anything." [40:29, Danielle)
Contact Hunter Parnell:
hwparnell@publicdefenseless.com
Today, Hunter spoke with Richard Mauro, Executive Director of the Salt Lake City Legal Defender Association, to talk all things Utah Public Defense.
Not even a decade ago, Utah and Pennsylvania stood as the last two states who provided exactly zero dollars towards Public Defense. As expected, this created a patchwork system in the state that left places like Utah and Salt Lake County able to afford full time public defense offices while the more rural areas of the state were forced to rely on the cheapest flat rate contract imaginable.
As a result of these flat rate contracts, a culture of met and plea arose. Surprisingly, it was the absence of appeals, despite countless stories of ineffective assistance of counsel, that drove people to start evaluating Public Defense in Utah. As alarm bells started going off, the Sixth Amendment Center's 2015 report made even more issues come to light.
By the end of this episode, you will have a clear understanding of what has gone right, wrong, and what sparked the change in Utah Public Defense.
Guest:
Richard Mauro, Executive Director, Salt Lake City Legal Defender Association
Key Topics:
Resources:
SLDA Website
Sixth Amendment Center Report
https://sixthamendment.org/6ac/6AC_utahreport.pdf
Utah Indigent Defense Commission
Contact Hunter Parnell:
hwparnell@publicdefenseless.com
@PublicDefenselessPodcast
@PDefenselessPod
Most people believe that life sentences keep people safe, but the evidence actually points to the opposite. In fact, life sentences were never originally designed to last for life.
In this episode, Hunter speaks with two individuals from the Sentencing Project: Campaign Strategist to End Life Imprisonment Alexandra Bailey and Senior Research Analyst Nazgol Ghandnoosh.
They will share evidence to support their claim that safer communities can be created without harsh sentencing. Then, they'll explain ways that life imprisonment and mandatory minimum negatively affect both families and the criminal system as a whole.
Alexandra and Nazgol both agree that life without parole should be abolished completely, and they'll give you more effective alternatives that could be implemented instead of harsh sentencing.
By the time you're done listening, you'll be questioning whether the United States has gone too far when it comes to sentencing.
Key Topics and Takeaways:
Guests:
Alexandra Bailey, Campaign Strategist to End Life Imprisonment, Sentencing Project
Nazgol Ghandnoosh, Senior Research Analyst, Sentencing Project
Resources:
Memorable Quotes:
"The death penalty needs to be abolished. It's a barbaric, antiquated punishment that does not serve any function in a modern, civilized society at all. It's gotta go away." (1:22, Hunter)
"If policing and incarceration made a nation safe, this would be the safest nation on earth." (9:53 Alexandra)
"When you imprison someone for decades on end, you are holding people incarcerated who are no longer a public safety risk. In several cases like this, the person who they harmed or the survivors of their crime no longer want them to even be incarcerated. But the system's hands are tied by mandatory sentencing policies." (16:25, Nazgol)
"If mandatory minimums and these extreme sentences are not working, and they're not, then we need to figure out what we're gonna do about it." (27:52, Alexandra)
"Life sentences and extreme sentences are not only ineffective, but they're actually counterproductive. They're preventing us from actually pursuing policies that would effectively reduce crime rates and prevent future victimization." (42:54, Nazgol)
"People are human and I think we have to look at this whole system with a lot more compassion." (55:01, Alexandra)
Contact Hunter Parnell:hwparnell@publicdefenseless.com
Raha Jorjani is an Immigration Defense Attorney in Alameda County, home of California's first public defender Immigration Representation Unit. Because our immigration law is founded on the principle that deportation is a civil issue and not a criminal proceeding which, there are few immigration specific public defender units. This denies millions of people the basic right of public defense.
This episode covers the ideals of America and how our government is willfully disregarding its responsibility to help the people fleeing the countries we have destabilized. Raha shares her personal experience working with clients who may appear like criminals on paper but are often victims of wider circumstances enacted by our own government. To tell their story without those crucial details is not just dishonest but dehumanizing.
Raha hopes that by sharing these stories and making Americans aware of the reality of what immigrants go through, just to have the opportunity to plead their case, we can break down these antiquated systems. Her office is the first of its kind and is being replicated across the country, hopefully to one day become the standard. America is founded on the principle that all men are created equal so it is up to us to ensure that includes the right to due process, evidentiary hearings and access to counsel. Without these standards of human treatment we are failing as Americans.
Key Takeaways:
[7:27] Raha's journey into the role of removal defense attorney
[11:00] Providing seamless representation from one system to the next
[12:40] The distinction between criminal versus civil protections
[19:00] How the needs of non-citizens differ from citizens within criminal proceedings
[25:30] The difficulty comes in conveying the complicated information accurately to the client
[30:00] How policies have changed through each administration
[39:00] The Department of Homeland Security is using detention as a litigation tool
[46:10] The burden to prove why you should be given the opportunity to remain in America
[50:00] Offering asylum for our benefit and not on principle
[53:50] Walter's case: The consistent failings of our legal system
[60:30] The opportunity we have to make a positive change
Guest:
Raha Jorjani, Deputy Public Defender and Supervising Supervising Immigration Defense Attorney, Alameda County Public Defender Office
Resources:
Alameda Public Defender Office Immigration Unit https://publicdefender.acgov.org/Immigration.page
Patel v Garland https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/596/20-979/
Fong Yue Ting v. United States https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/149/698/
Demore v Kim https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/538/510/
Jennings v Rodriguez https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/583/15-1204/
Silent Holocaust Guatemala https://cja.org/what-we-do/litigation/the-guatemala-genocide-case/
Manufacturing Consent by Edward Sherman and Noam Chomsky (El Salvador) https://www.amazon.com/Manufacturing-Consent-Political-Economy-Media/dp/0375714499
Somoza Family Dynasty of Nicaragua https://www.brown.edu/Research/Understanding_the_Iran_Contra_Affair/n-background.php
Chilie https://www.tni.org/es/node/1362
The Jakarta Method by Vincent Bevins (Indonesia, Brazil and many others) https://www.amazon.com/Jakarta-Method-Washingtons-Anticommunist-Crusade/dp/1541742400
CIA Secret War (Laos and Cambodia) https://warontherocks.com/2017/02/the-secret-war-that-transformed-the-cia/ https://www.npr.org/2017/01/23/511185078/america-in-laos-traces-the-militarization-of-the-cia
Iran https://www.npr.org/2019/01/31/690363402/how-the-cia-overthrew-irans-democracy-in-four-days
Title The Story of Walter Cruz-Zavala
The Long Campaign to Deport Walter Cruz-Zavala (theintercept.com)
https://theintercept.com/2022/09/20/walter-cruz-zavala-el-salvador-state-of-exception/
Memorable Quotes:
"In the immigration system, the government can put you behind bars and then tell you it's your burden to prove. They don't have to justify why they imprisoned you. You have to justify why you should be free. So you have to prove why you're not a danger to the community, you have to prove that you're not a flight risk and Hunter, that's people who are eligible for bond." [33:40]
"The power of detention is ultimately used as a litigation tool by the Department of Homeland Security. This is one of the only areas where, if you win, you stay in."[39:30]
"When people end up in the deportation system, it is almost always after they have been dealt with by the criminal legal system. So even to the extent that people believe in the criminal legal system and the need for accountability and punishment; the double irony is that these folks have already been through that system, so they've already served their time." [43:40]
"Our relationships with countries define how we view people. So, if we don't agree with a certain country's position, we tend to welcome people from those countries because we basically want to further entrench the idea that what's happening there is bad. Whereas other people from other countries could be facing similar types of persecution or violence and we have very many closed door policies." [50:24]
Contact Hunter Parnell:
hwparnell@publicdefenseless.com
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