Stay ConnectedAnyone paying attention can tell you that our criminal legal system is perpetuating cruelty and harm, but the complexity of the legal world overwhelms most people simply trying to get through another day.
Public Defenseless explores the rot in the justice system and what we can do about it. Join host, Hunter Parnell, as he interviews top defense attorneys and criminal justice stakeholders from across the country as they pull apart the convoluted web of our criminal justice system.
In a good faith effort to hold police accountable, states and counties around the country started mandating that police wear body cameras at all times. When they or on or working, they offer a powerful source of evidence at the misconduct of officers. There is just one problem: With Public Defender Offices in crisis around the country, do they actually have the time to review hundreds of hours of video evidence in every case? That answer, for a long time, was no. That's where Justice Text, and our guest today come in.
As student at the University of Chicago, Devshi Mehrotra realized the inequities in our legal system following the murder of Laquan McDonald. As the Chicago community rallied for change, she wanted to help. Out of this desire the idea for Justice Text was born. On today's show, you will hear more about the creation of Justice Text, how it helps Public Defenders, and the role tech needs to take in helping balancing the scales between resources available to police, prosecutors, and Public Defenders.
Guest:
Resources:
Justice Text
Justice Text on Twitter
https://twitter.com/JusticeText
NY Times article on the disparity in access to tech across the legal system
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/22/business/law-enforcement-public-defender-technology-gap.html
NAPD Conference Sign Up
https://napd2023riseresistrepresent.sched.com/
Contact Hunter Parnell:
Publicdefenseless@gmail.com
@PublicDefenselessPodcast
@PDefenselessPod
With the grueling nature of Public Defense work, it takes a special combination of internal and external motivations to navigate a 20+ year career in the field. Today on the show our guest, Andre Vitale, shares with us how he managed the highs and lows of working in Public Defense in three separate states.
When his career started, Andre served as a line defender in the Monroe, County Public Defender Office in Rochester New York. After more than a decade there, Andre spent a year in King County Washington, to help refine his skills as a Public Defense Trainer. After finally landing in the Hudson Trial region in New Jersey, Andre has helped to cultivate inciteful and productive training programs for Public Defense around the country. As he sees it in order to get Public Defense where it needs to go, a robust training program is a must, and it is part of what kept him going through all of these years!
Guest:
Andre Vitale, Acting First Assistant Deputy Public Defender, Trial Chief, Hudson Trial Region at New Jersey Office of the Public Defender
Resources:
NJ Office of the Public Defender
NAPD Conference Sign Up
https://napd2023riseresistrepresent.sched.com/
Contact Hunter Parnell:
Publicdefenseless@gmail.com
@PublicDefenselessPodcast
@PDefenselessPod
When we think of zealous Public Defense, we often think of triumphant victories in the court room, but today's guest wants Public Defenders to realize their greatest victories must come outside of the court room. Joining Hunter today once again is Sam Allison-Natale. He is the Executive Director of the Kansas Holistic Defenders, the only holistic public defender office in the state of Kansas dedicated to representing only misdemeanor clients.
Unlike most states, the Kansas Public Defender system provides representation only to those accused of felony crimes. So, when Sam moved with his family from New York to Lawrence Kansas, there was a limited opportunity to continue serving his community as a Public Defender. Undeterred, Sam seized on the already existing local groundswell of people calling for drastic changes to the local criminal legal system. In understanding the power of organizing and collective action, Sam assisted in getting the office up and running. On today's episode, you'll find out how the team at Kansas Holistic Defenders accomplished this and continue to work with the community to challenge the carceral system!
Guest:
Sam Allison-Natale, Executive Director, Kansas Holistic Defenders
Resources:
Kansas Holistic Defenders
https://www.kansasholisticdefenders.org/
ICE Detention Story
Sanctuary City News
https://metrovoicenews.com/lawrence-moves-forward-with-sanctuary-city-plans/
Sanctuary Alliance Lawerence Kansas
https://www.facebook.com/SanctuaryAllianceLawrenceKS/
NAPD Conference Registration
https://napd2023riseresistrepresent.sched.com/tickets
Contact Hunter Parnell:
Publicdefenseless@gmail.com
@PublicDefenselessPodcast
@PDefenselessPod
Today, Hunter spoke with Diane Lozano, the Wyoming State Public Defender, to discuss how she's been able to secure support for Public Defense in the challenge political landscape of Wyoming. With more than a decade at the helm of the state's public defender system, Diane's use of data and public advocacy has allowed her to maintain support through multiple state Congresses and Gubernatorial administrations. Despite the turmoil that comes with changing faces of a constantly rotating political body, Diane found a way to build the necessary relationships and compile the necessary data to make convincingly and consistently make the case for people to care about public defense. This task is even more impressive when one considers that her position is a direct Gubernatorial appointee!
Yet her victories are always in a precarious state. As with all states, funding for public defense is always at the whim of an ever-changing political body, but in Wyoming, it's also tied to the success of the fossil fuel industry. Despite victories both in and out of the court room, the boom bust cycle of the fossil fuel industry often leaves her offices and the support services their clients need, in a precarious position. What can be done to shore up a more consistent funding stream? What can we learn from the story of Public Defense in Wyoming? All that and more will be answered by the end of this excellent conversation!
Guest:
Diane Lozano, State Public Defender, Wyoming
Resources:
Lozano v Circuit Court
https://casetext.com/case/lozano-v-circuit-court-of-sixth-judicial-dist
Wyoming Public Defender
Contact Hunter Parnell:
Publicdefenseless@gmail.com
@PublicDefenselessPodcast
@PDefenselessPod
For decades, activists, scholars, and attorneys decried the state of public defense in New York. Report after report uncovered a broken system that underpaid public defenders and contact attorneys alike as the state shirked its responsibility to adequately support the counties in their effort to provide counsel to the poor. Even after a landmark study, mandated by the state's chief justice, it would take another decade and a lawsuit from the NYCLU, to finally start the process toward reform.
For much of her career, today's guest zealously advocated for poor clients facing the death penalty. As such, Patricia Warth was able to see first-hand the incredibly positive impacts that a well-funded, well-staffed public defender office could have on the lives of the accused and the community writ large. Today, her experience as a death penalty lawyer informs her work as the Director of the New York Office of Indigent Legal Services. While not fighting battles in the courtroom, Patricia is still caught in a daily struggle to help legislators from around the country understand the necessity for the state to continue to expand its support for public defense. With her incredible experience at nearly every level of public defense in New York, Patricia is the perfect guest to help us understand what we can learn from the rehabilitation of New York's Public Defense System.
Guest:
Patricia Warth, Director, New York Office of Indigent Legal Services
Resources:
2006 Reports on New York Indigent Defense
https://www.nycourts.gov/ip/indigentdefense-commission/IndigentDefenseCommission_report06.pdf
https://www.nycourts.gov/ip/indigentdefense-commission/SpangenbergGroupReport.pdf
Hurell-Harring Settlement Implementation
https://www.ils.ny.gov/node/56/hurrell-harring-settlement-implementation
https://www.ils.ny.gov/files/Statewide%20Counsel%20at%20Arraignment%20Report%20Year%202%202020.pdf
State of Injustice: How New York State Turns its Back on the Right to Counsel for the Poor"
https://www.nyclu.org/sites/default/files/publications/nyclu_hh_report_FINAL.pdf
NY ILS website
Contact Hunter Parnell:
Publicdefenseless@gmail.com
@PublicDefenselessPodcast
@PDefenselessPod
Today on the show, Hunter spoke with Michael Smith, an Assistant Public Defender in Chattooga County, Georgia, to talk about the unique challenges he faces as a rural public defender. After college and law school took him away from his home in Chattooga, County, Michael Smith returned home with a new found understanding of the inequities his community faced.
As the only public defender in the county, Michael is responsible for ensuring the rights of every person in the county are protected. As if that burden was not enough, the county, like so many rural areas of the country, suffers from a severe drought of mental health and transportation services that are essential to assisting people escape the cycle of legal system interactions. If we are to solve the nation's Public Defense crisis, we will need to come up with solutions to get desperately needed resources and services to rural and urban public defenders alike.
Guest:
Michael Smith, Assistant Public Defender, Chattooga County Georgia
Resources:
Contact for Michael
https://www.lmjc.net/?page_id=530
Contact Hunter Parnell:
hwparnell@publicdefenseless.com
@PublicDefenselessPodcast
@PDefenselessPod
Over the last year of Public Defenseless, Hunter spent a lot of time speaking with Chief Public Defenders from commissions and state-wide offices around the country. This top down view of Public Defense is extremely valuable and will be something that you hear more of on the show, but Hunter also realized he neglected to get the voices of line public defenders on the show. Over the course of the year, more episodes with line public defenders, like the one today, will be coming your way!
Today, Hunter spoke with Felipe Gonzalez, a felony public defender in Anne Arundel County, Maryland. His story, like many line defenders around the country is impossible to tell without discussing crippling caseloads, staffing shortages, and prosecutors who religiously advocate for no bail for most accused of a crime. Yet despite this, Felipe is able to rely on the tight knit office community to weather the storms inherent in the work. We hope you enjoy the first of many conversations with the line defenders who serve as the back bone of public defense around the country!
Guest:
Felipe Gonzalez, Felony Public Defender, Anne Arundel County Maryland
Resources:
Anne Arundel County PD Office
https://www.opd.state.md.us/anne-arundel
Contact Hunter Parnell:
hwparnell@publicdefenseless.com
@PublicDefenselessPodcast
@PDefenselessPod
A major theme of this show is empower regular people with the knowledge necessary to push back against the overreach of the state via police and prosecutors. That's why Hunter was so excited to bring you today's episode with a representative from the organization called Citizens Overseeing Police Oklahoma. The guest today is your everyday Oklahoman who is tired of the rampant corruption and abuse that police and prosecutors of the state get away with on a daily basis. While we could only scratch the surface of the issues facing the state, even the limited dialog should be eye opening for anyone interested in creating a fairer and safer Oklahoma.
****A NOTE ABOUT TODAY'S SHOW**** Our guest today is remaining anonymous due to legitimate concerns to their safety. Already, law enforcement has engaged in activity that is nothing short of reprisal and harassment for the guest's continued efforts to push back against their abuse of power. As such, the voice you will hear on today's show is AI generated to protect the identity of the guest.
Guest:
Representative of the Citizens Overseeing Police Oklahoma
Resources:
Citizens Overseeing Police Oklahoma
https://www.citizensoverseeing.com/oklahoma/police
The Brady List
*These are all single sources for the names and alleged activity in the episode. If more sourcing is requested, please contact Hunter or Citizens Overseeing Police OK*
Contact Hunter Parnell:
hwparnell@publicdefenseless.com
@PublicDefenselessPodcast
@PDefenselessPod
Across the country, outdated and disconnected data systems keep thousands of people stuck in prison or on community supervision long after they should technically be free. Today, Hunter spoke with Serena Chang, a product manager at Recidiviz, a tech nonprofit working to solve this problem and make the criminal justice system fairer, smaller, and more effective.
As discussed in the episode with Jason Tashea, the legal system is slow to incorporate new technology. Yet for States and organizations around the country, it's becoming obvious they can no longer operate a legal system based on individuals enter data by hand or relying on the memory of a few overworked officials. This is where Recidiviz enters the conversation. Tune in to hear how Serena and Recidiviz craft individualized, yet scalable solutions that aim at reducing the power and reach of the American prison industrial complex!
Guest:
Serena Chang, Product Manager, Recidiviz
Key Topics:
Serena's journey to Recidiviz [5:00]
The Problems facing the legal system [6:35]
How to craft solutions and how they worked in Idaho [14:25]
How states get introduced into Recidiviz' work [23:04]
How Recidiviz works on policy [25:10]
Ensuring increasing efficiency does not simply increase the efficiency of incarceration [28:37]
Preventing the states from using data collected to implement more pro carceral policy [31:27]
Ensuring equal access to tools [34:05]
Plans for expansion [36:10]
How to access Recidiviz' pre-existing tools [38:35]
Data Protection [40:35]
What would happen if bad/illegal behavior by the state came to light [42:30]
Trends Recidiviz noticed in their data collection [44:25]
Goals for organization [46:58]
How to start partnership [49:15]
Offering solutions that do not increase the size and power of the Department of Corrections [51:40]
Working with a PD Office [54:20]
How to learn more and identify problems [56:22]
Resources:
Recidiviz
Contact Hunter Parnell:
hwparnell@publicdefenseless.com
@PublicDefenselessPodcast
@PDefenselessPod
On this episode, Hunter spoke with Jason Tashea to discuss the exciting intersection of tech and the legal system. As the Director and Co-Founder of the Georgetown Judicial Innovation Fellowship, Jason is constantly thinking about ways to ethically integrate technology into the legal world. As an institution predicated on tradition, precedent, and intentionally inefficient legal protections, the legal profession has been incredibly slow to adopt the forward thinking, efficiency mindset so prevalent in the tech world.
It is the juxtaposition of the two that sits at the center of today's conversation. How do we ensure that the efficiency goals of tech don't trample the rights of others? How do we make sure that the vitally necessary data collection practices are implemented safely without privacy violation? All these questions and more are explored in this episode!
Guest:
Jason Tashea, Director and Co-Founder of the Georgetown Judicial Innovation Fellowship
Key Topics:
How Jason's Career got him here [5:40]
Where does the use of tech currently stand in the legal profession [7:50]
Access to Justice Gap [9:28]
Understanding the difficulties of a public-private partnership [13:41]
Lessons from other countries [16:22]
Data Privacy Concerns [19:56]
What policies need to be implemented to ensure equal access to new tech [23:50]
Balancing tech's desire for efficiency with the law's inefficient legal protections [27:05]
More ethical issues with law and tech [34:50]
Faith in reforms [38:13]
Limiting power of centralization of data [40:40]
The Fellowship [45:10]
Pushing for an Open Source Environment [52:00]
Getting into the Fellowship [53:00]
What Public Defenders can do to get more tech solutions [56:00]
Resources:
Links for Judicial Innovation Fellowship
https://www.law.georgetown.edu/tech-institute/programs/judicial-innovation/
https://twitter.com/JIFGeorgetown
https://www.linkedin.com/company/judicial-innovation-fellowship/
Justice as a Platform
https://law.mit.edu/pub/justiceasaplatform/draft?access=wd47u265
A Human Rights Approach to Justice Technology Procurement
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4246039
How the US can Compete with China on digital justice technology
Talk Justice Podcast
https://legaltalknetwork.com/podcasts/talk-justice/
Code for America
Legal Hackers
Contact Hunter Parnell:
hwparnell@publicdefenseless.com
@PublicDefenselessPodcast
@PDefenselessPod
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