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    Business

    On the Brink with Andi Simon

    Are you navigating change—personally or professionally? On the Brink is your space for discovering new ways to see, feel, and think about your business, your work, and your life. Host Andi Simon, award-winning author, corporate anthropologist, and change expert, brings you inspiring conversations with entrepreneurs, innovators, and thought leaders who are reimagining what’s possible.

    Explore how purpose, reinvention, and a human-centered approach can guide you through transitions and help you thrive.

    New episodes weekly.

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    Latest Episodes:
    Julia Wolfendale—How Many Ways Should You Focus To Find Your Path Forward? Mar 13, 2023
    Show notes

    Hear how to rethink your life to find what really makes you happy Today's guest is Julia Wolfendale, executive coach and director at On The Up Consulting. Julia is from the UK and has developed an exciting and valuable approach to helping people find happiness, success and fulfillment. Her book is entitled Five Ways to Focus and we discuss it as a starting point to help people better understand themselves. Julia has a master's in leadership and has trained and coached hundreds of leaders on understanding themselves and improving their daily lives. You are going to find our discussion itself very interesting. Do please tune in! Watch and listen to our conversation here The five ways to focus These are significant to understand, and they follow other research which we use at SAMC to help our clients understand why focus is essential to their success. The five forces are freedom, money, recognition, fellowship and fulfillment. As you listen to Julia, you're going to ask yourself, Am I the person I would like to be? Or do I need to take stock of where I am and consider where I'm going? At Simon Associates, we have developed a program that's entirely complementary to Julia's approach. Take a look at it at www.rethinkwithandisimon.com. It's all about trying to discover how can we change our story to find the kind of person that we want to be? And so much of this has to do with how the mind works to keep you comfortable and confident that where you are now is the best place for you. To connect with Julia, you'll find her on LinkedIn, Twitter and her website On The Up Consulting, or email her: julia@ontheupconsulting.com. Ready to examine what really motivates you and makes you happy? Start here: Blog: You Can Find Joy And Happiness In Turbulent Times! Podcast: Meg Nocero—Can You Feel Joy As You Rethink Your Life? Podcast: Richard Sheridan—How To Lead With Joy And Purpose! Additional resources for you My two award-winning books: Rethink: Smashing The Myths of Women in Businessand On the Brink: A Fresh Lens to Take Your Business to New Heights Our website: Simon Associates Management Consultants Read the transcript of our podcast here Andi Simon: Welcome to On the Brink With Andi Simon. Hi, I'm Andi Simon. I'm your host and your guide. My job is to help you see, feel and think in new ways so you can get off the brink. And I'm always delighted to find people who are going to help you do just that. You know, I'm a corporate anthropologist. I'm a business owner and entrepreneur. I coach lots of folks. But I've learned over the years that new ideas come to you from different places in different ways. And somehow you'll hear something, and you'll go, oh, that's what Andi's been saying. But here's somebody else who said it and all of a sudden it clicked, and it helps me do something I've been trying to do. So I have with me today a wonderful woman from England. And if you've been listening, we've had somebody from Paris, and somebody from South Africa. The world is coming to us and we're sharing great ideas. Julia Wolfendale is a terrific individual for you to listen to. Let me tell you about her and then she'll tell you about her own journey. She's an executive coach and director at On The Up Consulting. What a great name! She's the author of a new book called Five Ways to Focus. And she's qualified to the master's level in leadership. She has trained and coached hundreds of leaders on how to have the best sales and get things on the up. She had previous roles as a marketing director for a large global company and also worked in large public sector companies. She's developed an innovative set of tools, training courses and programs to transform, and I say this is a very important thing, to transform conversations at work. We've had other podcast guests who talked about conversations, and Judith Glaser has that wonderful book called Conversational Intelligence that I use in all my leadership academies. But we live conversations. And those are the crux of who we are and how we interact. She now specializes in strength-based coaching and writing, helping organizations get the best out of their people with coaching conversations. So this is going to be such fun. And she also wrote another book called The Trouble with Elephants that she started when she was 12. And so there's a story behind that story I'm sure. Julia, thank you for joining me today. Julia Wolfendale: Hi, it's great to see you, Andrea, thank you for having me. Andi Simon: Julia, I gave them the overview of your bio, but I know your story is a rich and very important one for them to understand why as an executive coach and a trainer, you've moved into this whole area of improving conversations, but building better places to be and also to find them fulfillment and happiness. Who is Julia? Let's understand who you are so they can understand why this matters so much, please. Julia Wolfendale: Oh, thank you, Andrea. So I guess my work career really started out when I got a Business Studies degree and went to work for Adidas, the sports clothing brand, and really being part of a big corporate setup really interested me. And then I was fortunate enough to move on and become a marketing director at Helly Hansen, again, a global sports brand. And having that opportunity to see different cultures, different people in different cultures of the organization, and in different countries in the organization sort of coming together and sharing ideas, that was always something that really interested me. But particularly, I guess I've always been interested in what motivates people, what gets them to do the amazing things, and working with sports brands was really interesting because being able to see people perform at their best, use their body in the most incredible ways to compete and to perform and to really challenge themselves. But from a marketing point of view, I was interested in how do you get people to think differently about what they're capable of. So I suppose there was always something in me that led me to now, which is this coaching. So really recognizing that we are capable of so much more. And sometimes we have to challenge our situations, our environments, and ourselves, to make some changes to think differently and to find ways that we can be at our best. So that's taken me many years to kind of come to this point now where I can say I have a successful coaching consultancy. I'm coaching leaders. Throughout the week, people have really important jobs and CEOs of hospitals and working with public sector organizations where people have really tough jobs and helping them in their professional lives, and thinking about how they can be at their best, but I also train in organizations and help them develop their leaders by having chats that matter. And that's our signature program, which is about changing the way they have conversations with their people using a coaching style of recognizing people's strengths, really unlocking that potential, and tapping into people's passions and what they care about so that they can be motivated and successful, happy and fulfilled at work. And I guess that's what so many of us care about. But perhaps we don't always have the ways to do that. And I suppose that's why I wrote the book, because sometimes having the chance to focus on the stuff that matters to us and recognize what we're capable of is kind of the first step towards that. So the book, Five Ways to Focus, is around dealing with all the other stuff we could be doing. We end up getting involved in all the other things that we're thinking about, and actually just getting it down to really what matters to you. What changes are you ready and able to make? And what difference will that make for you, if you did? Andi Simon: You know, it's interesting, because I have several leadership academies for corporations. And we're actually at a point where we're talking about understanding that leaders must focus on themselves on one hand, and on empathy on the other, and then the third on the environment around which they are operating. And I often worry that there are too many things to focus on. And we're preaching a methodology of getting to understand what matters at the moment. I am so interested in what you have learned. Talk to us more about when you say the word focus in on conversations, intelligent conversations, give us a little bit more flesh to this so that I think our listeners and viewers can all sort of grab what is it you've discovered. Julia Wolfendale: Well, I think it's around cutting through the noise and the distraction. So sometimes the little distractions get in the way of us getting on with the work that needs to be done, or the plans that we need to make. But I think there's also the kind of the internal noise as well. There's the self-limiting beliefs that show up the things that we give too much attention to really, and believing when actually we perhaps could look at them, listen to them differently, challenge them, question ourselves. I think being able to focus on some of the things that are physically and literally in our way, but also what are the things that we've kind of manifested in our own minds that we believe to be our obstacles, but we've had them for so long that they've become things that we don't even imagine not having that or don't even imagine overcoming. So the book really helps break down and is focused around what matters much. So really getting someone to understand, what are they really looking for? And if they are thinking about a career change, really helping them understand and assess their life right now. What's working well, in all aspects of their lives. And what do they want to have more of? What do they need less of? You know, why they value the things that they give so much time and attention to? Or do they value the time? And do they value those things or if they just took over? And so helping people sort of reassess their lives and their work included in that. And help them think about what do they want to learn? What do they want to be able to be or be able to do? And then also helping them think about the things that are really driving them. So what are they looking for, by way of a change, and if it is a career change, there might be things that matter to them that they have lost sight of? So I do find that when I'm coaching with people, when I ask them questions around some of the one of the five ways to focus is, what are you really looking for, and it's based around freedom, fellowship, fulfillment, kudasai, and money and getting people to rank those in order. So if freedom is a big one, it might be because it might be their first thing, and they realize they don't have enough of that now. And that's what they really do want to focus on. So I'll ask them about, what does freedom mean to you? And it might mean they've got more freedom to make decisions, so more autonomy. It might mean freedom in the sense of being able to have a better flexible working schedule and then they will come to fellowship and it might mean that fellowship is something that is important to them, and having a sense of belonging. Great connections with people at work really matters. And, they may not have that now and people are suffering from that, aren't they, because of the hybrid working environment and so long remote working, that sense of fellowship might really matter to somebody, but they kind of lost it or forgotten about that. So help them understand what does fellowship mean to them? And if they're looking for it, what would it be? How could it be represented at work, so that it might be about moving into a new team, or joining a new organization where they really share the same values and they feel really connected. And so they belong and that's a strong driver for people's sense of belonging. Or it might be fulfilling. And I think too often we forget to think about what makes us feel good about work. Work can take up a lot of our lives, but it can be so much more enjoyable when there's a sense of purpose and a sense of personal reward, as well as you might be serving others and that might be enough. So where does that fulfillment come from? And what does that look like, and really getting people to recognize that. I'm feeling unfulfilled at work and that's the thing that I want to prioritize. That's something I want to focus on. And that's such a lightbulb moment when people realize that something is missing. But that's not the thing that's ever in a job description, or ever advertised. You don't apply for a job because that gives me fulfillment? No, you just hope that might come along. Or you might forget that that was ever important at all. And then curious, what do you want to be known for? What is it that you might stand out? And there might be that you have some great contribution to make, but it's just not being seen or heard in your organization? Or in your role? Have you been known for that thing that you do or the thing that you want that you want to have that kind of recognition for? And you might be the go-to person in your organization for that. But is there another place where that could be valued as well? And you take that to a sort of a biggest regret or grander scale? Or do you want to start a blog around the thing that you know really well that other people struggle to express or struggle to understand? And then, you know, money. What will it take? Do you have enough already in use, this is just okay. Just finding something that will equally help you pay the bills? Or is this a financial move for you? I want to make the move that will really give me the money that I feel is important to me in my life. So yes, just shifting the focus on to the things that really matter. That's what I'm talking about in the book, when you want examples. Andi Simon: When you work with people, have you had your own epiphany about how important this is, I won't ask you which of the five matters to you most. But, I have a hunch that when somebody does have that epiphany, do they then begin to act on it, or help them actually change so that if in fact they're looking for kudos or recognition. They can find ways to do that or if they're looking for fulfillment and purpose, they can redefine what the world is, and actually act on it. How do you actually take them from discovery to implementation or something? Julia Wolfendale: Yeah, that's a bit that really excites me as well. So I love that whole exploration with clients to help them think about things they've never thought about before. I'll bring to the fore the things that they are clear that matter to them now. But yeah, I don't like to leave people hanging. So I always kind of frame my sessions around how do we make that happen now, so very practical steps. So another part of the book is, can you do that? What's possible? So, I'll be asking them, so what can you do in the next two hours about that? What could you do in the next week, the next month, the next three months, the next six months? People need to feel that they can make those incremental steps towards the goals, whether it's a short term, or longer term, we think about changing the timescale as appropriate. So just breaking things down. That's another part of the five ways: the focus approach makes it small and achievable, but still aspirational enough that someone feels this is stretching them and challenging them and changing them but with the co…

    Full show notes at the publisher

    Richard Medcalf—Why Is Strategy So Challenging When Running Your Business? Shouldn't It Be The Best Part? Mar 06, 2023
    Show notes

    Hear what good leaders should really be thinking about Richard Medcalf describes himself as "what you get if you were to put a McKinsey consultant, a slightly unorthodox pastor and an entrepreneur into a blender." In this podcast, you'll hear from an amazing thinker who has tackled strategic challenges in companies all over the world. In his new book, Making Time for Strategy, Richard speaks about the difficulties he has encountered working with high-powered leaders. Far too often, they find themselves focused on the wrong things---from how to respond to emails to how to get tasks completed on time. Instead, Richard preaches that a leader's mindset should be focused on the future, where the organization is going, and how everyone in that organization needs to be aligned around a core strategy to get it there. Listen and learn! Watch and listen to our conversation here Richard outlines four important ways you can refocus your time and energy to get where you want to go and find pleasure in the journey of getting there (TIME): Tactics Influence Mindset Environment About Richard Medcalf Richard founded xquadrant in 2017 with the mission of helping elite leaders reinvent their success formula and multiply their impact on their purpose, their people and their profit. He is bi-national (English and French), lives near Paris, and is also a licensed lay minister in the Anglican Church. You can connect with him on LinkedIn, Twitter and the xquadrant website. Ready to be a better leader? We recommend these for great learning: Blog: How To Be A Highly Effective Leader During Turbulent Times: The Five Things You Need To Know Podcast: Sara Canaday—Can You See The Gaps That Are Holding You Back From Being A Great Leader? Podcast: Kris Baird—Yes, You Can Teach A Leader How To Lead Additional resources for you My two award-winning books: Rethink: Smashing The Myths of Women in Businessand On the Brink: A Fresh Lens to Take Your Business to New Heights Our website: Simon Associates Management Consultants Read the transcript of our podcast here Andi Simon: Welcome to On the Brink With Andi Simon. Hi, I'm Andi Simon. I'm your host and your guide. And my job is to help you get off the brink. I want you to see, feel and think in new ways, so that you can change. And if you come here and listen, you know that each time I bring you somebody new, it's because they've done something that really is transformative in some fashion. They're tackling a problem that my listeners, my audiences, my viewers are all tackling as well. And I'm so really honored today to have Richard Medcalf here from Paris. And it's a wonderful opportunity for us to share his new book, Making Time for Strategy, but also to share Richard. Let me give you a little bit of Richard's personality. He sends me an email, and he wants to be on my podcast. Why? "The first thing is because I'm a fan," he said. "I will thank you for the time and energy you invest in putting this out into the world." I have not had many of those emails, even though I have lots of emails from our listeners. But that was really a sweet opener. The second: he said he was sure that my audience, our audience, will find value in the topic, because many of our listeners will be running teams or businesses and hitting the ceiling of complexity, as daily operational demands suck all their time, leaving no space for strategic thinking. Now I'm a Blue Ocean Strategist. I work with lots and lots of companies who are seeking to create markets, not simply compete in them, which is Blue Ocean thinking. And they often get so tied up in making the plan, they forget they have to do something with it. And conversely, though, if they don't think about the plan, all their actions can take them nowhere, a very good point we're going to focus on. And Richard thinks I'm a good speaker, which we will see today, because I think he's a good speaker. He describes himself as what you get if you were to put a McKinsey consultant, a slightly unorthodox pastor, and an entrepreneur into a blender. So you have an idea of what we're going to talk about today. He's the founder of xquadrant, and a trusted adviser to exceptional CEOs and entrepreneurs and their leadership teams. I think you're going to enjoy him because he has advised all kinds of folks in all large and small companies. We're going to let you hear his story from his own perspective. It's much better than reading it. But he's binational. He's both English and French and lives near Paris, happily married and the proud father of two. He's also a licensed lay minister in the Anglican Church, and has an insatiable love for spicy food and the electric guitar. Is that enough for us to think of this mash up today? Richard Medcalf is joining me now. So happy to have you on today. Richard Medcalf: Yeah, thank you, Andi. Pleasure to be here. And thank you for the great intro. Andi Simon: Tell our listeners and our viewers who is Richard Medcalf, because your background is rich with experiences that have led you now into your own business. I liked what you discovered as you were wandering through. You have been very successful, whether it was Cisco or elsewhere, and who are you so that they can now understand why you're so focused on making time for strategy. Richard Medcalf: Yeah, thanks, Andi. Well, obviously strap yourself in if you've got a spare six hours, because talking about myself is my favorite topic. So here we go. I'll try to keep it brief. I better keep it brief. But so yeah, so I grew up in the UK. Started at Oxford University, went into strategy consulting, started at that point to move over to Paris. Five years later, I'm still here. I'm married to a French woman and have bilingual kids and everything else. So life doesn't always take you in ways that you expect. When I was at Bynum, in my strategy consulting company, I became the youngest ever partner. I'd been there about 10 years, and decided it was time to become a smaller fish in a bigger pond, rather than a big fish in a small pond. And Cisco was knocking at my door, and I thought it'd be interesting, you know, a huge tech company. Joining them, I did various roles. The last role was a small team set up by the CEO of Cisco and its chairman in order to kind of catalyze strategic relationships between Cisco and its key customers. I like to describe it as fulfilling rash commitments made by the chief exec when he was talking to big customers. And that was all great. And I enjoyed that. And it was quite prestigious in its own way and all the rest of it. But I got to a moment when I said, you know, Richard, what do you want as a legacy? What do you want to tell your great grandchildren in the future when you're 90 and they're on your knee, and they're asking you about your professional life, what you did in your job? And I realized that although I really enjoy and I still enjoy creating financial results for my clients, and back in the day, I was doing that a lot. I realized I didn't want to just talk about how I helped AT or whoever it was, increase the EBITDA margin by 1%. So I started to think, well, what do I really want? What are the real stories that I want to tell, you know, of my life and my professional life? And that's when I started to really deep dive into, what makes me different? What's my biggest gift? What's my passion, all that kind of stuff. And I started to realize that I went to work at this intersection of leadership, strategy and purpose, or to put it another way, helping people, great leaders. I suppose the way I now describe it, or they didn't describe it that way at the time, was, I want to help great leaders reinvent themselves to achieve breakthrough goals that change the world. So there's a few things in there, that personal transformation, and it's about making a positive impact in the world. So up to now, I've given you all the external facts that allowed me to build this business and my new business. You know, I work with amazing leaders, CEOs of billion dollar companies, some of the founders of scaleups, tech unicorns. One of my clients is an Olympic medalist and is now building a billion dollar business. Another of my clients was nominated as Entrepreneur of the Year by Ernst and Young. These are amazing people. But they're already impressive, but they're looking to connect their impact or make it make a big difference. But let me take you back to my childhood. With me, my sister was born mentally handicapped, very seriously mentally handicapped. She passed away just a couple of months ago. And she made a huge impact on me. She was an amazing character, very determined, very joyful. But we had very different paths. You know, like she stayed at home, she needed 24 hour care, a whole care team. She couldn't be left alone. Basically, she was so needy. Andi Simon: Yes, but it sounds like it had a big impact on who you were. Richard Medcalf: And yeah, I've realized that recently. Yeah, I realized that recently. I mean, I had this high flying career, went to Oxford. I went to a high tier strategy consulting company. I went to Cisco. I started my business. I move countries, all this stuff. And she didn't do any of that. And so I have this real sense that when we have the gifts, the talents, the resources, the opportunities, we kind of owe it to the world to make it a better place and to make an impact. And yet I see so often, we end up in our comfort zone, scared of doing things because we're a bit worried about what we might lose if we were to dare to do something different. Even when we're playing a big game, we can be busy, but in our comfort zone. So impact is a huge word for me because of that impact. Andi Simon: It's interesting, I read an article this morning about purpose. And don't worry about purpose unless you have an impact. Purpose-driven companies don't necessarily do anything, they just have a purpose, and actually I worked with one about a month ago. But your point about having impact is important for our listeners, because you are coming to that epiphany, that aha moment, where more of the same of what you're doing, even if it's financially lucrative, or even if it's for good companies, isn't personally purposeful. And that becomes a real interesting driver for you of what your calling is and why it's so important that you choose where you go, and you do it in a very intentional fashion, so that you have your own legacy and can answer to those kids and grandkids. You know why I've done what I've done in this life? Because it has made other lives better. So tell us from your company perspective, as well as from the book. You know, my segue is, how are you doing that? Richard Medcalf: How am I making that impact? Well, I think concretely, what I do, we're one-on-one with high-end leaders, CEOs or founders, entrepreneurs, sometimes C-suite leaders with their teams. I have a couple of programs that I run with perhaps more junior leaders. And I'm always helping them think about how they don't need to challenge my thinking. Where do I need to shift who I'm being as a leader in order to achieve things which right now are outside my zone as a reference? And, you know, what is that? What's really important? I think it's the fundamental question of what's really important in terms of what I want to accomplish, what's really important in terms of where I put my attention and my focus? What's really important in terms of where I build my skills? I think I described myself as being strategically lazy. I've always been a strategist. So my life, you know, it's why I got to the top, first at Oxford University, because I just knew where to put the focus, and what was important, what wasn't so important when I was studying. And I think it's strategic laziness. I just want to get a big result by focusing my efforts on the key areas. So I think I bring that to all these different parts of leadership, from ambition to goal setting to habit formation to dealing with people. That's kind of, I guess, the fundamental part. But what I find is that in all those conversations, whenever I sat down with a new leader, and we were looking at how you're going to multiply your impact, how you're going to, really just in the exponential, how you're going to break through, the first conversation we would always have, and he was like, "Yeah, I'd love to do that Richard. But right now, to be honest, I'm just so overloaded. I've got so much on my plate. You know, where do I go? Where do I go from here? And how do I even make time for all this exciting stuff?" I know, it's possible for me because that really was the seed of the book that I've now written. Andi Simon: But it's an interesting reflection. I am an anthropologist, and you're an observer. And as you're talking, I'm thinking about you meeting with your clients and listening to their stories, because we're story creators. And the story was a catalyst to change your own story in your mind. And I often preach that because telling stories isn't incidental, it doesn't stay outside of the other person. And as you're talking and sharing your story, our listeners' stories are also changing. But what's important is, as you're coaching your clients and they're sharing their sense of pain, success has now turned into, "I no longer have a vision, I no longer can see where we're going. I'm not even quite sure how it's all aligned with a strategy." You had an epiphany, a moment, which said, Wow, there's something here beyond simply helping them personally transform it that could be instrumental for them to get back to being the big leaders who are supposed to be visionaries. And they're not supposed to be worried about managing the tactical details. They're supposed to be leading people into some particular direction. So once you had this epiphany, then the book came out of it. Richard Medcalf: The first thing I want to just clarify is, for me, strategy is really a shorthand for strategic activity. So as a top leader, we might lead literally focusing on corporate strategy. But no matter where we are in the organization, we always need to focus on what is the most strategic, what's going to move the needle, what's going to have the biggest leverage. And that's really, when I talk about strategy, I mean that. So for somebody, that literally is: "I need to think about the vision and strategy for my company." But then I need to just step back and think about how am I going to maximize the impact for my business unit, or my department or my team or myself? So, yes, I think the book came out not necessarily immediately, but I started to go, "I've got stories here." I realized that a lot of people think that what they need is a time management book, a productivity tip that you think about how to maximize, filter their emails better or something. What I realized was that no, the breakthorughs my clients had were in these deep conversations. They weren't just in the area of tactics, which can be important, but it's not everything. So with the book, I wanted to really bring, if you like a transformation perspective, to this question of how do I free myself up for this? So because I realized that was what my clients were dealing with, they knew that theory about, you know, working on the important things, even if they're not urgent, and this kind of stuff, t…

    Full show notes at the publisher

    Imogene Drummond—How Can A Brilliant Artist Show You How To Communicate Effectively—Online? Feb 27, 2023
    Show notes

    Hear how to really hear what people are saying in meetings Imogene Drummond is a woman whose story I love to share. She is bold and courageous about things she wants to do or learn more about. Today's topic is how her new program, ACQUITS, grew out of her interest in helping people communicate better, especially in the virtual environments so many of us find ourselves in these days. Imogene's professional life evolved from her training in psychology to her very successful career as an artist, to filmmaking, and now to working with people to develop their online communication skills. This is so timely. Do enjoy. Watch and listen to our conversation here ACQUITS stands for the 10 essential principles for successful meetings This process is based on how we must: listen before we speak hear what others are saying adapt our thinking to understand what the speaker intended, not what we think we heard do all this without the body and facial cues we use during in-person conversations Meet Imogene Drummond Imogene Drummond is an artist, filmmaker and educator. She has an MSW from Catholic University, was a family therapist in the late 1970s, is the founder and principal of Divine Sparks Media, and is currently Director of Social Media at the Deeptime Network. She studied at MICA's Mt. Royal School of Art and her work has been shown in solo and group exhibitions from New York to Australia. Her paintings are in private, corporate and hotel collections, as well as the National Museum of Women in the Arts in Washington, D.C. Her new program, ACQUITS, came from observing how people behave while engaged in zoom calls, and focuses on teaching people how to change their communication strategies to engage better and benefit more fully from online conversations. You can connect with Imogene on LinkedIn, her website, or by email: imogene@imogenedrummond.com. Want to communicate better? Here's a great place to start: Podcast: Monique Russell—To Lead With Clarity, You First Must Communicate Confidently Podcast: Lisa Perrine—Clever, Creative Ways To Enhance And Amplify Workplace Communications Podcast: Nadia Bilchik—How To Master Communication In A Virtual World Additional resources for you My two award-winning books: Rethink: Smashing The Myths of Women in Businessand On the Brink: A Fresh Lens to Take Your Business to New Heights Our website: Simon Associates Management Consultants Read the transcript of our podcast here Andi Simon: Welcome to On the Brink With Andi Simon. Hi, I'm Andi Simon. I'm your host and your guide. And my job is to get you off the brink. So I go looking for people who can help you see, feel and think in new ways, opening your minds to solutions to problems you may be working with or dealing with, but aren't quite sure how to solve now, particularly as we emerge from these years of pandemic. You never want to waste a crisis, and it's a great time for you to learn some new techniques. And today I've brought to us Imogene Drummond. Imogene is a wonderful woman. I'm going to tell you about her. But she also has a program you're going to be very interested in. It's called ACQUITS, and it's a toolkit for facilitating conscious and effective communication for online groups. Now that is a really interesting topic. You know as well as I do that we are spending so much of our time online. And for women in particular, it isn't giving us more opportunity to participate. But the dynamics are much more obvious when you're watching men and women, different genders and age groups, on the screen and how we're competing for time and space. And what actually happens with communication, people often saying, "You didn't hear me. I may have said something, you may have thought what you heard, but may not have been what I meant." And so communication is very hard. Let me tell you about Imogene. Imogene is an internationally-collected painter, award-winning filmmaker, writer, artist, educator and foremost psychotherapist. You're going to say, "How interesting, where did ACQUITS come from?" ACQUITS is a toolkit for facilitating this effective communication. The acronym refers to the lesser-known definition of the word acquits, meaning how one conducts oneself. Imogene's educational course for middle school students combines creativity, self-worth and the universe. That is pretty cool, particularly when we learn that we are billions of years old. And who knows how we ever emerged from a few molecules of this, mixed with the fuel of that? Options for The Future is the closing piece in a thought-provoking anthology, The Rule of Mars, which was endorsed by Pulitzer Prize-winning scientist and author Jared Diamond. Now, if you haven't read Jared Diamond's work, it's well worth reading. And I have all his books and just love him. Due to her painting expeditions around the world, Imogene was invited to join the Society of Woman Geographers, whose membership includes explorers of ideas as well as geography, among them, Eleanor Roosevelt and Amelia Earhart and Jane Goodall. I must tell you that when you discovered who I was, I was an explorer. Now I've done a recent self-assessment, and I'm also a philosopher. And I guess that's why you and I have eclectic interests that come together around helping people see, feel and think in new ways. Thank you for joining me tonight. Imogene Drummond: Exactly. Thank you, Andi. And thank you for the opportunity to be on this wonderful podcast. It's great that you create these interesting podcasts that support women's amazing stories and important work. So I'm honored to be here today. Andi Simon: Please tell our viewers, who's Imogene? What's your journey? How did you get here? Where are you? Imogene Drummond: Well, speaking of where we came from, the last 7 billion years, my journey has been really a series of evolutions. And I started out as a psychotherapist, and then I decided I really needed to do something for me. And so I became an artist. And I was painting and going on these trips, expeditions. And then I created a script with paper cutouts. So it became an illustrated manuscript. That was really a new origin story that I thought would help children and help the world. And then I decided I needed to do more with it. And I made it into a film. And I had never made a film and I decided, Okay, now, really, it's a feel-good film. It's gotten a nice award. But I mean, it needs to help people to be more practical and functional. So I made it into a curriculum. And it became a curriculum at a middle school, a visionary school in Newburgh. So it's just surprising because when I started to go on this journey, I just thought, Well, who knows what will happen? Maybe I'll start painting pastel tulips? I don't know. So I'm very pleased that I just kept being creative. And I kept exploring new ways. Andi Simon: You know, there's a wonderful book, The Secret to Our Success. And in the book, Joseph Henrich talks about his own realization that human evolution has come about because of our shared collective brain. And as I'm listening to you, I think our listeners would love to know, did you go on this journey alone? Or were you picking ideas up from people? How did you begin to evolve? Personally, you didn't have many careers, you had sort of one person moving through different stages here. How does that happen? Imogene Drummond: Very interesting question. No one has ever asked me that end. You know, it felt lonely at times. But it's true, I have had a group of mostly women. I did, my father was like a guide. So he was very helpful. But especially this group of Society of Woman Geographers there, the woman who invited me was herself an artist. I just kept finding people who were supportive, and kind of just finding them. Then I ended up with this group, the Deeptime Network, that I'm on the advisory board of, which is why I made the ACQUITS toolkit. Oh, it's interesting. It has not been alone. And I think that's something in our culture, where we're influenced to think about me, me, me. And really, we need to shift and think about we, so that's one of the ideas behind the ACQUITS toolkit. Andi Simon: So I think that the ACQUITS came about because you saw some unmet needs. You're very much a blue ocean thinker. It isn't about doing more of the same, a little bit better. It's really about how do I solve a problem, create a new market, find solutions that may be right beneath us, but could be done in a different kind of fashion. Tell us a little bit about ACQUITS and then you can put up your screen so we can talk about the elements of it. Imogene Drummond: Well, just to give you some background, I've been working with this fascinating cutting edge nonprofit, the Deeptime Network, which provides educational courses to connect us to the cosmos; again, exactly what you're talking about. It talks about this evolution of humans, and the whole cosmos through this. They were gearing up to shift from having three-month courses to nine-month courses, somewhat early in the pandemic. And I had been on a number of zooms with diverse situations and groups. And there were a number of things that were needed that were problematic in each experience. And the main noticeable one was that, oftentimes, somebody would speak too long. And so I had said to the co-founder and president Jennifer Morgan of the Deeptime Network that some communication guidelines would be helpful to people. And she said, great idea, Imogene, you do it. Andi Simon: I have a hunch that it wasn't a bad idea, anyhow. Imogene Drummond: Well, I thought, "You know what, I've been thinking about this," which is why I suggested it. And so I thought, "Okay, I'll run with it." And that is exactly why I developed it. It is to help people be more conscious in communicating in groups online. The techniques are also good for lots of situations, including in-person. But, I noticed that it's difficult to get feedback when you're speaking in a group on zoom because everybody else is muted. And so you're not hearing things that you might hear if you're in a boardroom or a classroom, where people might be drumming their fingernails or rattling their coffee cups or coughing, or being wrapped with the tension. And also with the monitor, you're just looking at this inanimate technological thing, versus people's real faces. So you don't get the feedback online that you do in real life. So I think there are many reasons why there were problems on zoom that aren't in real situations. Andi Simon: You know, in some ways, I am wondering two things. One of which is, many years ago, I did a television series for CBS Sunrise Semesters when people got up at six in the morning to get college credit; it was a long time ago. But I remember talking into the camera with no audience. And sometimes when you're doing a zoom workshop or something, people don't turn on their cameras. And you're talking as if you're doing a television show with no audience. And you have to imagine, and you require a lot of creative emotions. We, as you and I are talking, respond to each other listening or not, based on my face and how I'm responding. And then you can take it to the next stage, because you're trying to figure out, Am I making my point? Or am I not? So it was interesting, as I went back in time to remember the feeling. Somebody once said to me, as I was recording, You're really good, but you should smile. I went, Ah. He said, When you smile, the thing is that we learn. But this is very important, because I don't think zoom calls, webs, are going to go away. In fact, I hope they don't, because it gives us a multiplier, both of our time and our topics and so forth. But, I'm also not sure that interpersonal relationships aren't truncated by the very same things that happen in a virtual one, except we don't pay attention to the same way. And I'll segue into you talking about your programming in a second because I've been starting to go back and do live workshops, or live public speaking, keynotes. And I forgot the high that I get from being in an in-person experience. Now, the audience, when I've done it remotely, gives me great reviews. And, they too, though, are coming back. Because people are herd animals, we like each other. And we must be better when we watch each other. And we can celebrate what others are doing. Put up your screen, and let's take a look at what the elements of ACQUITS are all about and how to apply them because I have a hunch our listeners or watchers are going to want to do it. And for those listening, I promise you, Imogene will talk you through what is here so you can understand why it's so important for the techniques that she teaches and that you can learn. Imogene Drummond: Okay, thank you, Andi. So, this is a slide from my PowerPoint presentation with all of the techniques together. And through the PowerPoint presentation that I give about the ACQUITS toolkit, we go into each one in more detail. So this is a summary. And the first one is the A is for agree, and everybody in the course or on the zoom call agrees to these principles or these techniques. So you have to get everyone to buy in first. And also I think it's interesting because I wrote up these techniques and then it was like, Oh, if we make it into an anagram, it becomes ACQUITS. And there's two definitions for the word acquit. One is the one we're familiar with, where you get off, but the other one is about how you conduct yourself. So this ACQUITS refers to how one conducts oneself. So the first actual technique is affirm, that we affirm others. The next one is C for contribute. We contribute to the conversation. And that means you don't add something that's not on topic. You stay on topic and you contribute something that is helpful to other people. The next is the Q. Ask a question, ask people what they mean or to explain better or more clearly, or in more depth. The U refers to unite. You want to have a conversation where people are getting feeling connected versus disconnected. So we want to keep this attitude of uniting people. The I is for include. Let's make comments that include people; oftentimes there's a quiet or a couple of quiet people in the group. So it's important to remember to include them. The T is for "think gratitude," is so important, really goes a long way to facilitating connections and good communication. So the next three really refer to the idea of helping people speak more succinctly and clearly. So Share and Stop. The S means stop, give one idea, not three. Share your one idea, and then stop and breathe, and let other people respond to it. The next S is for self-regulation, which is to think ahead of time. You know, editing is vital for good writing, right? So, to be a good speaker, we need to edit our thoughts. So if we think that it's important to edit our thoughts first, before we speak, then we can do that better. And self-regulate is about editing ourselves. And also speaking for two minutes, not more than two minutes; a lot can happen in two minutes. And to set parameters as well, that you should try to express your idea in less than two minutes. So that's the very basic techniques, really. Andi Simon: But when you articulate them, we become aware of them. And if we're not aware of them, we won't know whether we are self-regulating, or contributing or dominating. We really don't know how to do better at sharing ideas, and building, affirming each other's positi…

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    Britt Titus—Let's Use Behavioral Science To Help People Live Better Lives Feb 20, 2023
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    Hear how understanding someone's culture can improve lives I was so excited to have the opportunity to speak with Britt Titus on our podcast. As you will learn, Britt found her calling when she discovered how behavioral sciences and humanitarian concerns could transform the world, one step at a time. The two of us are crazy about behavioral sciences, so it was such a joy to share our fascination with the difficulties people have understanding others who differ from them. Whether addressing Ebola in Liberia and West Africa or helping mothers in Mali avoid malnourishment in their children, Britt is constantly humbled by the challenges of helping people do things that seem so logical to those of us from the Global North. As she says, nothing is as simple as it might appear. And humility can often be the best way to bring about changes that can have a huge impact on health. Don't miss this one! Watch and listen to our conversation here It isn't that people cannot understand what you are saying They just have different stories in their own minds about what those words mean and how or why to change their behaviors. Solving problems with others requires us to understand what matters to them, what they believe to be truth. Remember, as I like to say, the only truth is there is no truth. Listen in to Britt Titus and enjoy our journey as part of your own. About Britt Britt's background lies at the intersection of behavioral insights and humanitarian action. She previously worked at Nudge Lebanon where she managed projects that applied behavioral insights to issues related to conflict and violence, ranging from gender-based violence to social cohesion and refugee integration. Beforehand, she spent most of her career working for the United Nations World Food Programme (WFP) in humanitarian response and preparedness across Africa, Asia and the Middle East, including emergency deployments to Liberia for the Ebola outbreak and the Middle East for the regional Syria response. Britt has a Master of Public Policy (MPP) from the University of Oxford where she focused on applied behavioral science and completed research at the Behavioural Insights Team (BIT) in London. You can connect with Britt on LinkedIn or her page on the Airbel Impact Lab website. For more stories about living with a purpose, we recommend these: Podcast: Lisa McLeod—If You Want To Succeed, You Must Find Your Noble Purpose Podcast: Pat Shea—Use Your Passions To Become Who You Want To Be Podcast: Theresa Carrington—Transforming Impoverished Artisans Into Entrepreneurs Additional resources for you My two award-winning books: Rethink: Smashing The Myths of Women in Businessand On the Brink: A Fresh Lens to Take Your Business to New Heights Our website: Simon Associates Management Consultants Read the transcript of our podcast here Andi Simon: Welcome to On the Brink With Andi Simon. Hi, I'm Andi Simon. I'm your host and your guide. As you know, I'm the founder and CEO of Simon Associates Management Consultants. We specialize in applying anthropological tools to help people change. And you know, as I've told you, so many times people hate to change, so we help you see things through a fresh lens and get off the brink and soar. Today, I'm absolutely honored to have with us Britt Titus. Now this is a very interesting woman whom you are going to love to meet to learn more about and understand how behavioral sciences can be applied in humanitarian ways that you may be unfamiliar with. Let me read you her background and then I'll introduce her. Her background lies at the intersection of behavioral insights and humanitarian actions. She previously worked at Nudge Lebanon where she managed projects that applied behavioral insights to issues related to conflict and violence, ranging from gender-based violence to social cohesion and refugee integration. She's going to tell you more about that. Beforehand, she spent most of her career working for the United Nations World Food Program in humanity, humanitarian response and preparedness across Africa, Asia and the Middle East, including emergency deployments to Liberia for the Ebola outbreak in the Middle East for regional Syria response. Britt has a Master of Public Policy from the University of Oxford, where she focused on Applied Behavioral Science and completed research at the Behavioural Insights Team in London. It's really an honor and a privilege to have you here. I'm so glad you could join me. Tell our listeners, it's so much fun. Let's add one behavioral scientist to another who are working in different areas, but in similar ways, sort of tell us about Britt. What's your journey like? Let's make you come alive so people can appreciate how you've applied behavioral sciences to all kinds of different problems. Please, who's Britt? Britt Titus: Thanks, Andi. Happy to share. So I started my journey really working for the United Nations when I was in my early 20s, which seems like a long time ago now. And, you know, the team that I was working with within the United Nations was really like a fire response department. So we were responsible for responding to emergencies all over the world, across many different continents, which included a lot of kind of rapid deployments for sudden onset emergencies. And so I really started my career by being thrown in the deep end. My first year with the UN, I was deployed to work on the Syria emergency across Jordan and Lebanon, trying to support the humanitarian community to get aid and relief supplies into the country across borders. And shortly after that, I was also deployed to the Ebola outbreak in 2014, if you can remember that, at that time. So being deployed to Monrovia, that capital, and working within the UN system to try to better respond to the growing number of Ebola cases at that time. And so this was a really formative period in my life. It was extremely rewarding. But something that was always the most interesting to me was the human element. Why are people responding the way they do? Why, when we, the humanitarian community, are bringing relief supplies to communities in Liberia and West Africa, why is there so much fear, and, you know, the incredible, impossible task of trying to encourage people who are experiencing the Ebola outbreak, to kind of turn over their sick family members to these faceless, masked PPE-donned health workers? In the midst of this crisis were all actions that needed to happen and we were struggling. We were building these large Ebola treatment units across the country, these large hospitals, and the beds were empty. And so we had to try and understand very rapidly, why are people not bringing their loved ones, their family members to these hospitals. What we understood was, it was the human element. It was the fear, it was the misinformation, it was the rumors. And the very, very difficult task of taking someone who's very ill and handing them over to these places that were very unknown and unfamiliar and foreign. And so these were the questions that I always grappled with and was so fascinated by. And so, partway into my career within the UN, I really knew that I wanted to go back and spend some time studying a little bit more and understanding how we can shift the way we do humanitarian response. A lot of organizations, you know, the way that we've been doing humanitarian response now is the way we've been doing it for 50 years, and so there's a lot of growing interest in more innovative ways of responding so we can improve outcomes for people whose lives are affected by crisis and conflict. And so one of those ways that I found, maybe my first week doing my master's of public policy, someone mentioned behavioral science, and I said, what's that? As soon as they told me what it was like, that's what I've always been interested in. I just didn't know the name of it. I didn't know that it had a whole evidence based theory behind it. And so I signed up for every course that I could at the University of Oxford, and really delved deep into it. The struggle was, of course, that I found that it was being applied in government, and it was being applied in private sector companies around the world. But, it was not being applied in a systematic way in the humanitarian sector to deal with the issues that I cared about, like pandemics, and health, and prevention of violence, and education for people affected by crisis. And so I was searching high and low for people who would be interested in this behavioral science thing. And it was difficult at that time, that was 2016. I had a lot of really interesting conversations with people who thought it was a great idea. But, it was definitely difficult to get some traction. And so eventually, I found Nudge Lebanon which is a small NGO working out of Beirut, in Lebanon, applying behavioral science to issues like social cohesion between the host population and refugees, health, nutrition, all of these topics that I care so deeply about, and really was able to start start running experiments to understand human behavior, and all for the purpose of trying to improve humanitarian outcomes for people, Syrian refugees, and Lebanese, in Lebanon. And so that was really the beginning of my career in this intersection of these two areas that I care about so deeply, and eventually found that IRC, the International Rescue Committee, the organization I currently work for, has an innovation team called the Airbelt Impact Lab. And within that, one of their core areas, or kind of tools in their toolkit, is behavioral science and so I joined that team, and now I lead the behavioral science team there. So that's my journey, Andi Simon: The most exciting part is that you have gone through your own self discovery. At the same time, you're now trying to bring a new perspective and way of seeing things to people who think they're doing just fine, thank you very much. The most interesting part, you know, there are many things that are interesting about what you're doing, but the hardest part is that it isn't working but that's the way we do it. And if that's the way we've always done it, that must be the right way to do it. But it's not working. Well, maybe it could work better. But that's the way we've always done it. And I can tell you, it's not that different from going into an organization, a business that is fractured, a toxic culture. And they say, well, this isn't good, but it's the way we've always done it. Humans are wonderfully resistant to leaving that shiny object and going to a new way of seeing things that might do better. And the big question is, how will we know? You know, the unknown becomes a crux for not doing it. And so I'm anxious to hear about some of your extraordinary experiences, helping them honestly do just what we said today: see, feel and think in new ways, so they can really overcome the resistance and do better. Help us understand some of the ways that this has been working for you. How have you been able to start the transformation of people's minds? And you know, breaking down the resistance to change? Britt Titus: Well, yes. So yeah, normally with our work, applying behavioral science in humanitarian settings, we are aiming to shift behavior in the population that we're serving. So for example, we're aiming to shift behavior of teachers in a refugee camp or parents in a conflict setting. But you're absolutely right, Andi, that the change needs to start at home. And it is really difficult. And a lot of the behavioral biases and the resistance to change that we see in all of us also happens in our own organizations and our own teams. And so, yes, we are a small team, doing behavioral science work, a team of around four people at the moment, sitting within a wide integration of 15,000 people almost in 40 different countries around the world. So it is no small feat to embed this new approach into the work we're doing. So yeah, I think, you know, a lot of what we try and do with the population, we also try to do at home. I think one of the good things, one of the opportunities, is that a lot of what teams have been doing for a long time, their aim is ultimately what we're trying to do is try to shift behavior, or help people kind of align their actions with their intention. So supporting populations to achieve the outcomes that they want for themselves, whether that's improved education for their family, improved health, whatever it is, and so often, that's really an entry point for us. Because ultimately, we want the same thing. We want to shift behavior in some way, or help people kind of leverage these drivers of behavior, which can help achieve outcomes. So that's our first entry point. And so I think, what is important is to first kind of help these other teams see that we're trying to achieve the same thing, which is always important for behavioral science work, is kind of identifying where the kind of similar values are, or where your shared values, your shared objective is, and then coming in and offering behavioral science, and that is something that's going to replace the ways of doing things from before, and it's definitely not a silver bullet. But what we try to do is help teams see that we can all use it as an added boost. All of these projects, especially for these humanitarian contexts, are working in where the challenges are extremely complex, and extremely just have a lot of complexity in them. Using these tools that can help us understand human behavior, not just at the individual or household level, but also at the system level within a country can be extremely, extremely helpful. And what's also beneficial is that behavioral science interventions tend to be quite cost effective, whether it's shifting the way that people see an intervention, or using different types of messaging, or helping people plan for the future. These are not tools that are incredibly expensive. And so they actually work very well in these contexts, especially where we're resource constrained, which we often are in a humanitarian context. So there's a lot that we can do there to kind of help people see that this is something that can be added on to their existing way of doing things and be embedded within program development and design and doesn't have to replace it. I think what's also really important is bringing teams along in the entire journey. So we know that if people are involved in things early on, they tend to have a sense of ownership, which is really good for building momentum and having buy-in. But at the same time, we know that these programs and these projects are only really going to be effective if we have the input of the people who are closest to the problem. And so it's really twofold. It is important to build ownership. But it's even more important to have their input, because behavioral science interventions are only as good as we understand the context of the problem. And typically, it's our project teams and and our teams on the ground who know those things the best. Andi Simon: How my head is going through at least a dozen questions. Let me take you through the first question. I'll be an apologist. How do you access real insight into what they think the problem is, or how do you begin to, because to your point, people have a story in their mind and that's the one they're trying to live. Like, we don't want to. You're trying to show them a different way that might be more effective, whether it's teaching or it's abuse in the home, or it's whatever the issue is. So somehow, we have to change their story. The Eb…

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    R. Karl Hebenstreit—Who Am I? Try The Enneagram And Take A Better Look! Feb 13, 2023
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    Learn what motivates you and others so you can collaborate better While I have used the Enneagram personality framework with clients, I have never had as great a discussion about it as I had with Karl Hebenstreit. Karl is a certified executive coach, organization development consultant, international speaker and author of two books: The How and Why: Taking Care of Business with the Enneagram and Nina and the Really, Really Tough Decision (for younger readers). So what is the Enneagram, you may ask? More than just another personality test or behavior identification technique, this human psychology-based theory opens your mind to how you see yourself, the teams you work with, and the world at large regarding motivation and behavior. Which of the nine personality types are you? Listen to Karl to find out! Watch and listen to our conversation here: Ready to learn what makes you tick? Whether it is the Enneagram or Myers-Briggs or the Culture Index or Hogan Assessments, there is an abundance of tools available to help us see, feel and think in new ways about ourselves and others. You will enjoy this podcast conversation as Karl takes us through his own journey of discovery and how he is using his tools to help people build diverse organizations. The Enneagram is a really unique, really effective tool It does not focus on the typical racial, ethnic, gender or sexual orientation conversations about diversity. Or even about neuro- or cognitive diversity. Rather, as you study the nine types of Enneagrams that are all partially inside ourselves, you realize that creating strong organizations requires us to learn more about each other and build better together. Are you an Active Controller? A Considerate Helper? An Enthusiastic Visionary? You might just be surprised. About Karl Hebenstreit With 25+ years' experience in the biotechnology, healthcare, telecommunications, high-tech, pharmaceutical and real estate services industries, Karl is an expert at building relationships at all levels, fostering and integrating collaborative environments, and leading and motivating others to realize their full potential by adopting new mindsets to achieve extraordinary results. To contact Karl, find him on LinkedIn, his website www.performandfunction.com or by email: rkarlh@gmail.com. To learn more about how personality types affect collaboration, start here: Blog: Achieving Business Change Using The Enneagram Personality System Podcast: Maureen Berkner Boyt—Yes, Diversity And Inclusion Can Happen But Only If You Work At It Podcast: Johanna Zeilstra—Let's All Build Companies That Make Gender Fair Additional resources for you My two award-winning books: Rethink: Smashing The Myths of Women in Businessand On the Brink: A Fresh Lens to Take Your Business to New Heights Our website: Simon Associates Management Consultants Read the transcript of our podcast here Andi Simon: Welcome to On the Brink With Andi Simon. Hi, I'm Andi Simon, your host. As you know, I'm the founder and CEO of Simon Associates Management Consultants. You also know that I don't like to do too much promotion on this podcast. What I like to do is celebrate the guests whom I'm honored to bring to you so you can do something special: get off the brink. I want you to see, feel and think in new ways. Fast-changing times are asking you to do just that. Most of us hate change. And we're not quite sure how to really respond. But I promise you, never waste a crisis. And even though the pandemic seems to be sliding back, the new is so unfamiliar. And I don't care what kind of business or work you do, you're facing people who are also trying to adapt to fast-changing times. Somehow, you're going to have to figure out who they are now that they're hybrid. Are they the same people that used to come into the office? What do I know about myself? How do I manage this wonderful array of people now, some are in, some are out? The world has become global, and AI sticks its nose into the thing and chatbots are doing all kinds of stuff. How can I help? So today I have Karl Hebenstreit with us. And Karl is a wonderful individual I will tell you about. And then he will tell you about his own journey. Who is Karl? Karl is a certified executive coach, leadership and organization development consultant, and author of two books that I'll tell you a little bit about, and an international speaker. His career spans the areas of HR and OD in biotech, clinical diagnostics, life sciences, healthcare, pharmaceuticals, and many other industries. He has really taken his expertise to places that needed him. He holds a PhD in organizational psychology, and is helping organizations to attract, retain and motivate employees. He has an MS in HR management from Rutgers. And so he's in New Jersey near us here in New York. But it's really quite interesting. He's the author of The How and Why: Taking Care of Business with the Enneagram now in its second edition, and a children's book called Nina and the Really, Really Tough Decision. I'm not sure which we're going to spend more time on, the really tough decisions. And don't think that even though you're grown up, you aren't still Nina and trying to figure it out. Karl, thanks for joining me today. Karl Hebenstreit: Thank you so much, Andi, this is a pleasure and an honor and privilege to be with you today. And absolutely. You are so correct. And we are all Nina, we all have Nina within us forever for our entire lives. And how do we access Nina? And how do we access all of the gifts and just perspectives that she can get from everything that's within her? And that's really what we're here to talk about today. Andi Simon: Well, you've had a wonderful career and a journey and people like to hear your story. Who are you? And how have you come to the point where this has become a focus, because I think it's evolved for you, hasn't it? Karl Hebenstreit: It really has, and I love to say that it was planned and strategized, but it wasn't. The only planning and strategizing was that I needed to get an education to be able to figure out what I'm going to do in this world and how I can impact change. And I started in one direction and ended up in a completely different direction and that was the right direction. So yes, as you said, there is a total East Coast connection. I was born in New York on Long Island, Mineola, Long Island, and was raised in Greece, my mom is Greek. So we went back to Greece when I was two. And I was there for seven years. I came back to the United States with my parents with a Greek accent, which maybe every once in a while you hear some weird syllable or pronunciation, but it's pretty much all gone. And we settled back in Old Bridge, New Jersey, and I was in New Jersey for pretty much the rest of my formative years, until I moved to California in 1998. And my formative years were spent, as you said, in New Jersey, my education was from Rutgers. My undergrad is from Rutgers. My master's is from Rutgers. And I really didn't know what or where I was going to go with my aspirations. My parents had ideas for sure, just like everyone's parents do. And my mom steered me towards languages and I started learning French and Greek as part of the school system there, along with Greek and English of course, and my dad was/is very much about politics, so he was political science, so I dutifully said, I'm going to do French and political science as a double major. I can use them. I can become a diplomat and lawyer or who knows what I'll become but that's what I'm going to do. That's what I'm going to pursue and I dutifully went forward using those as my majors. And then I took an elective course in psychology. And my eyes opened up. And I'm like, wow, this is interesting. This is really, really cool trying to understand people, trying to figure out why they behave the way they behave, why they do the things they do, what's brought them to where they are. And I took more and more elective courses because I needed elective courses to graduate. And I got to the point where I ended up with a minor in psychology, but I still had one more semester to go. And I figured out, you know, if I just take six classes in psychology for my last semester, I can get a third major. So it'd be psychology, French and political science. So then that gives you a little bit more of a hint of where my Enneagram type might be because of a wing of mine, probably that went into play there, which I didn't know at the time. So yeah, I ended up graduating from Rutgers with a triple major in psychology, French, and political science. And at a time, this was back in 1993, and the economy was not very good. So I ended up figuring, well let me start trying to find work. I couldn't find anything that I could use for my degrees. So I took this one course in industrial and personnel psychology as it was called back then. And I thought that was it. That's really the direction I want to take. But how do I get into that? So since I wasn't able to get a job right away in an area where I wanted to go into, I decided, well, let me get a temp job, I can become a temp. I was a temp during all of the school vacations and the holidays and everything like that. So back to the temp agency: I said, I have these parameters. These are my boundaries that I really want to focus on a job in human resources and a large organization that's headquartered here, which hopefully that would mean I'd get a job there after being a temp with them, and proving myself to them. And it had to be in the human resources department for the long term. It couldn't just be like, you know, a day here and a day there. It had to be something that was substantial. So they came through with me with Merck. Merck was a huge or is a huge employer in New Jersey, obviously. And I went to work there covering maternity leaves. I did two years of covering maternity leave after maternity leave after maternity leave, lots of people got pregnant at Merck. I don't know what was going on there. But yeah, covered for all the maternity leaves, and at the same time, at night was going to school for my master's in HR management. So it was a really cool way to pay for my education, and get to practice what I was learning during the day at work. So that's what immersed me in the field of human resources. And when I eventually moved from, eventually landed a job at AT&T, which then moved me from being headquartered in New Jersey, moved me from New Jersey to California, which is where I ultimately always knew I wanted to be. I don't know why it was just within me, ingrained that I was going to end up in California somewhere, didn't know whether it was going to be, north or south or wherever. I ended up in Northern California, knowing no one, absolutely no one, just moved out here. I knew this is where I needed to be. And that's where I fell into the Enneagram. So I decided my HR career was great. And I loved many, many aspects of it, but I wanted more. And so the next step, the next evolutionary step would be to go into organization development. And how do I do that? I need to get more of an education. So through AT&T's very generous tuition reimbursement program, I went to school again at night for my PhD in organizational psychology in California, and that's where I was introduced to the Enneagram. One of my professors was friends with Helen Palmer, who is a big name in Enneagram. She's in the peninsula. And she came in for one of our classes. It wasn't even a whole semester long class. It was just one class. And she came in and she introduced us to the Enneagram. And much like you, I know you use Myers-Briggs in some of your engagements, I was a Myers-Briggs guy. Myers-Briggs was great. It was awesome. It helped explain how things worked. People understood more about themselves. They understood more about their co-workers. People weren't crazy, or maybe they were but they were at least explainable. And then I found out that, Oh, wow, Myers-Briggs just scratches the surface. And we really don't know what's below the surface, what's causing or motivating those behaviors that we're seeing that Myers-Briggs is telling us that we do. So Helen Palmer explained that, all in that one class, that one less-than-three-hour class, and I was hooked, I was so hooked. I originally thought I was a certain type. All my classmates said Yeah, right. You're not, look at your actions. And they were right. Because we always want to be something we're not. Andi Simon: We don't really know what we are. And we don't have a good mirror to help us do that. And, consequently, we know humans are storymakers. We create a wonderful living story. In our mind, our mental map, and however we create it, that's where we live. We only see the things that conform to it. And if it doesn't fit, we just scrap it. We didn't delete it and so we're good at that. And so an Enneagram begins to create a way of understanding that story through a really sophisticated lens. They're all trying to help you see yourself through a fresh lens. What's interesting is that, I just want to pause for a moment because people listening and watching, you too may have had an epiphany at some point. I discovered anthropology when I was an undergraduate. And I really didn't have a major. I was wandering, trying to figure out what life was about. And then I took one course and next thing I know, I went, Oh, wow, this is who I am, not just what I want to do. It sounds like that's what we did. It's a calling. And so I am, and then I went to Columbia, and I finished it, but it's a very interesting feeling. And so if you're listening or watching, don't miss it when you have that aha moment in your brain. I can remember the professor, it was like, wow, yeah. While the Enneagram may help tell you more about yourself, you know, sometimes somebody will help you see yourself in ways that you couldn't imagine. And I don't think those are separate. So when you discover this, you know what you do with it. Karl Hebenstreit: I wanted to know more. Just that one three-hour class wasn't enough. I wanted to know more. So then I became involved in the International Enneagram Association, went to my first conference, started seeing all the different presenters and seeing what the different ways that people were using the Enneagram were. I really saw how I wanted to use it in business because I was in business, I was in human resources at the time. And I saw the connection. I was doing lots of recruiting at the time, and I saw how we were recruiting for the same type over and over and over again. And we were recruiting not only in our own image, but in the culture of the organization. We were excluding certain people right off the bat because we weren't acknowledging different drives and needs that they had that would be important for them to have in an organization, to offer them those options, for benefits, for culture that they would need. And the realization from a diversity perspective is that we do need all nine of those different drivers and perspectives in any group, team or organization. Otherwise, we're going to succumb to groupthink. And we're going to miss out on serving the needs of this whole other populace that is not being served, whose interests are not being thought of or considered. So that's where I just became totally immersed in it. And sort of practicing experimenting in the organizations for which I worked at that time, this was after 911. So AT&T had done some m…

    Full show notes at the publisher

    Monique Russell—To Lead With Clarity, You First Must Communicate Confidently Feb 09, 2023
    Show notes

    Learn how you, yes you, can become an awesome communicator! In July of 2020 I had the pleasure of interviewing the very delightful Monique Russell, a leading executive communications coach who will share with you how to clearly communicate what you want to say in an effective way. I loved our conversation and learned so much from Monique that I had to share her wisdon with you again. Do you find yourself full of great ideas but struggle to tell others about them? Do you become self-conscious whenever you make a presentation? Monique has a great perspective on how to conquer all of these and succeed! Listen and share. Watch my interview with Monique here: A communications roadblock is also an opportunity As Monique tells us, "Right now, you may have achieved great success in gaining recognition for your good ideas and expertise, but you haven't connected in a way in which others recognize the full value and quality of your leadership. It's hard to connect, and others don't seem to understand or buy into the full vision of where you see the team heading." The opportunity? A time to learn new skills and polish your emerging style. About Monique Russell Originally from The Bahamas and Nigeria, Monique is the communications expert you want on your team. Founder of Clear Communication Solutions, an international training, coaching and consulting firm that teaches effective communications and leadership skills, she is passionate about teaching women leaders and teams how to turn "likes" into "loves" in their businesses and in their lives. Major organizations such as Centers for Disease Control, Verizon, Intel, Equifax and the world's busiest airport, Hartsfield–Jackson Atlanta International Airport, trust Monique to teach effective communication strategies that foster connection, community, creativity and courage. You can too! You can contact Monique here. Would you like to communicate more effectively? Learn from these: Blog: How To Be A Highly Effective Leader During Turbulent Times: The Five Things You Need To Know Podcast: Lisa Perrine—Clever, Creative Ways To Enhance And Amplify Workplace Podcast: Nadia Bilchik—How To Master Communication In A Virtual World Additional resources for you My two award-winning books: Rethink: Smashing The Myths of Women in Businessand On the Brink: A Fresh Lens to Take Your Business to New Heights Our website: Simon Associates Management Consultants Read the transcript of our podcast here Andi Simon: Welcome to On the Brink With Andi Simon. Hi, I'm Andi Simon, your host. And as you know, my job is to find people who can help you see, feel and think in new ways. I really want to help you get off the brink and soar. And these are very fast changing times: the pandemic, and the recession, the economic disruption, have really created all kinds of new ways of working and living. And so today, I wanted to find somebody who can help you think about communication. What is communication anyhow? You know, out of context, what do those words mean? Do your emails really get the response you're looking for? I was listening to somebody, not that long ago, who was telling me that everybody is making up all kinds of decisions as they work remotely and they're not talking to each other the way they might have if they were in the same office together. But they're feeling quite independent and empowered. Is that good or bad? How do we communicate? So today, on LinkedIn, Monique Russell came asking to link and so we linked and then we probed a little more. And Monique is a marvelous expert in communications. So let me tell you about her and then she'll tell you about herself because I do think you get a better picture from people's own words about their journey. So Monique is originally from the Bahamas and Nigeria. She is a communications expert whom people say you want on your team, and this is really a chance for personal leadership. She's passionate about teaching women, leaders, and teams how to turn likes into loves. So you can see why we have so much in common, both in our business and in our personal lives. Remember, our lives are nothing but conversations. They're all about communicating. So what words we use matter, how we do it matters. Monique has helped companies like the CDC, Verizon, Intel, Equifax, large companies globally. They trust her to teach effective communication strategies. And I love her four C's: connection, community, creativity, and courage. So today, I hope you're going to find that you are fostering communication, connection, creativity, and courage. Because these are not simple times. It's not more of the same. Let's do it better. These are different times. How do we change? And since I love to help you change, Monique, thank you for joining me today. It's such a pleasure to see you. Tell the listeners about yourself. Who's Monique? What's your journey all about? And how did you become the woman you are today? Monique Russell: Thank you so much, Andi. I'm just delighted to be here and speaking with you. So I am from the original beautiful Bahamas and Nigeria. That's where I grew up. I grew up in the islands. I lived with my mom and my brothers and my stepdad. And my mom was a high school teacher. And so she's been an educator for all her life. So you can imagine just the influence and the impact that I had growing up, having a love for learning, having a love for reading and just watching her take personal development messages, audios, as she was developing herself. I kind of got caught onto some of it. She never said, Monique sit down, we're gonna listen to this. But I happened to have exposure to seeing her do it and some seeds were planted. So I left the warm islands and I went to Minnesota, which was very, very cold. We had a family tradition where the guys would go to St. John's, the girls would go to St. Ben's, and that's where I started, at St. Ben's, before I moved to St. Cloud. And I studied the whole science of communications. My goal was to get on TV to be a broadcast journalist covering stories all over the world. I studied marketing, PR, and advertising, which ended up being my graduate degrees. So I left with three degrees in the science of communications. And then I was off. I was off to conquer the world. Andi Simon: Which really was who you were. It wasn't a job to do, or a career to develop. I'm hearing someone who had an understanding of who she was and what she could contribute to the world. This is really exciting. Please continue. Monique Russell: Let me tell you how exciting it was. I knew from the moment I was three years old having class with my dolls that I was born to teach. And I started actually speaking officially in front of people at the age of eight, so when I left, I had every bit of confidence you could possibly imagine. I had enough for me, for you, and your entire family. But let me tell you, after I graduated, I applied for jobs left, right and center. And I didn't find the job that I wanted in my field. I couldn't find a job in journalism. I didn't find a job in PR and advertising. It was like a Catch-22. They're looking for experience, but you have the degree, and so when you did find something in the broadcast field, there was no way that I would be able to take care of myself and my family at the time. I had already had a son. So I started as an executive support. Still, with all the confidence and the bubbly excitement that I had, it wasn't my plan. It was not where I wanted to be. And I contributed and I showed up the way I knew how, and I won awards. I got recognized because nobody considered me to be a threat in the executive support role. So I got a peek behind how things worked, which leaders stood out, which ones were frustrated. What made them tick and what brought the team together. And because I was already nosy, curious about everything, as the investigative journalists, I always wanted to know what was going on. And they would come to me to ask me questions because of my personality, how to handle certain things with employees, how to handle certain things with their peers. I was all in the mix. But I will say this, after a while, I moved to Atlanta, and I came across a group called WATTS: Women Aspiring Together to Succeed. I did not know that I had lost my confidence during this time. I didn't know because I was successful. I was accomplishing things and I was being recognized. I had my family. My kids were thriving, and things were okay. So I thought, but there's something that happened. And when I started freelancing, when I moved to Atlanta, I had a situation where my business partner and I were working on this project. And that project, just, you know, it was going well, it was going great. And then one day we had a call. And on that call, the client called us and I thought they were going to just go ahead and you know, renew, because I knew I was doing a great job. And I got on that call. And I'm like, you know, hello, this is Monique, Mrs. Bubbly personality. But on that call, something happened. What happened was, they started to ask questions about billing. I was working with my business partner. He was the contractor above me. And he had a contractor above him. So I was two levels in and didn't have correct direct billing with the client. But I did lead meetings, I did do the research, I did provide the value. And so I thought, this was just fantastic. But on that call, they started asking things like, Alright, we're two years in, we understand why the bill was much higher on the front end, you have to do this work, you have to do whatever you had to do. But now we're almost two years in and we don't understand what the people are doing with Monique on this project, the other two people that are working. And Andi, I promise you, I just didn't know what to do. Because at that time, you think you're getting on a call for one thing and then it just hoodwinked you. And so I was like, Okay, what two people are they talking about? And before I realized what was happening, the prime contractor added two additional people that were working with me that did not exist. Oh, gosh. I said nothing. Andi Simon: Or your credibility was gone. Monique Russell: I said absolutely nothing. I said nothing. I was frozen. I was frozen in that moment. And I said, Wait a minute. I mean, why did I not speak up? I literally sat in my car. I think I must have sat there for 30 or 45 minutes after just replaying what happened. I should have said this, but if I said that, they might have taken everything back for two years. I might have to pay everything. All sorts of things went through my mind. But I will say it was the catalyst for me to really open up and say, Okay, where in my life am I not speaking up, what else is going on? And that led to a deep investigation. And I realized that I had lost my confidence. I wasn't feeling fulfilled. I was getting recognized, but it wasn't where I was feeling that I was truly in my zone in my sphere of influence. Because yes, I was doing communications but that was on the marketing side, which I don't do anymore. I wasn't interested in that. So that's kind of my journey, but where I am today through that exposure with the women doing my vision board. And it's so funny because I always set goals. But I had this new way of setting goals, which was a vision board. And I put these things on my vision board. And I'm going to tell you, yesterday, I was going through so many of not only my boards, but you know, ones from 2015, from 2017. And I looked at it, and I was like, the things that I've put on, there's probably about two things on there. But when I look at it, even down to the detail of what I would be creating, and who I would be serving, and where I would be speaking, and what I would be doing, right where I would travel, I've already traveled to those places. So this thing works. Some of them didn't happen in the exact way that I envisioned. But it did happen. So that was a catalyst for me. And then I started investing more in coaching. And then it just really strengthened me in my strength and gift area. So I wasn't speaking at that time. But that's what pushed me back to my gifts. It pushed me back to that little girl who was teaching early in her make-believe classroom. So that's a part of my story. Andi Simon: But it's so important because you had an aha moment. You had an epiphany. And I could feel your brain trying to figure it out because I could hear that as well. But then once you figured it out, you knew you never wanted it to be there again. But who were you? And then what? What value can you offer others? But what point is it if we don't help others do something better, as a result of what we can begin to offer them. So now that your story is perfect, because it sets the stage for all people who are listening and watching who are also looking at all the changes going on now, trying to think through them, what is the epiphany here? How am I being transformed? What will this mean in terms of the conversations I have, or the communication I have? So as you're looking at both your own journey, let's start with some of the insights that you can share, but also what you might like our listeners to begin to do or change. Monique Russell: I think we are thrust into change and transformation by either vision, what we see as possible for us, which was part of my journey, but I also had the pain of writing. Or the pain, which is, where we are right now? Because it's an uncomfortable situation. And I love the way you framed it up in terms of, you know, what would it look like? What would it look like at the end of 2020? What will you say? What will be your story about what 2020 meant for you and how you transformed from the inside out? I think right now we are in a space, communication-wise, where people are more receptive to deeper levels of conversation. They're more open to having heart to heart conversation, heart to heart connection. It's still kind of scary because everyone is pretty much on this same cataclysmic, seismic shift. It's like, I'm not going to stand out and look crazy. Andi Simon: I want to connect here because it's important. We do a lot of visualization with our clients. As you're discussing, you had to do your storyboards. And I often do them. I'm doing a program, a leadership development for a long-standing client, and I'm starting with your visualization: What are you going to look like? But, you know, today we share this common transformation going on. So it doesn't seem so crazy to come up with some cool ideas. Maybe it's a good time to rethink who you are and where you're going. But you know your thoughts, so how do I do that? It's really interesting listening to you, because I can already visualize that 2020 is tomorrow. Monique Russell: How do you begin to do that if you use your physiology and you combine that vision. You combine the goal or the idea of who you want to become, because that's going to pull you stronger. When things come up, when the crap hits the fan, that desire is going to pull you even further towards that vision. So using your physiology, and what I mean is, the power of your breath. Getting yourself into that very calm state because we have to think about, what level do you want to create at? Everything's energy. So do I want to create from a place of fear? Oh, I gotta find some clients. I don't know what I'm gonna do. What you create in that state isn't really going to be lasting, but if you create something…

    Full show notes at the publisher

    Naomi Redel—Energize Your Business With Games That Tap Creative Teamwork Feb 06, 2023
    Show notes

    Hear how games can make your employees' effectiveness soar!

    Several years ago, Andy (my husband and business partner) and I went to Brussels to train in Innovation Games. IG is a wonderful set of creative tools to help people see things in new ways by playing games. In fact, IG downloads are the most frequent downloads from our website, www.simonassociates.net. Here at SAMC, we integrate IG into many of our workshops and leadership programs. Take a look at some of our IG white papers and PowerPoints which might open up your mind to what gamification can offer you, your team members and your customers as you rethink your organization to face the challenges of these fast-changing times.

    Today's podcast is with gamification strategist Naomi Redel

    I was thrilled to recently meet Naomi Redel to discuss how she has become a gamification strategist with her own methods for increasing the effectiveness of organizations through what she calls "Collaborative Emotional Intelligence."

    Our podcast was global. Naomi was in Israel, and I was in New York. We had a wonderful discussion about people, the power of games, and the type of work she does with organizations that need to boost their people power.

    Watch and listen to our conversation here

    Some background on Naomi and what she has created

    After years of working as an innovation and marketing consultant with leading Israeli companies, Naomi felt firsthand the frustration of watching brilliant strategies flounder in C-suite silos, unable to trickle down and make an impact, because of lack of time, motivation, and the right tools to institutionalize them.

    So what did she do? Create a multilayered system that uses collaborative emotional experiences with cutting-edge technologies and gamification to push the boundaries of implementation and embed those strategies into people's hearts and minds. She then followed this with the creation of the first-ever board game in positive psychology, Positive Turn, which is recommended by the VIA Institute of Character Strengths and used as an innovation for companies in France.

    She also co-founded HappierMe and led the design and development of the HappierMe platform, a system of minigames and exercises designed to make the practice of happiness easy and accessible anywhere and anytime.

    Naomi earned her Master's in Business Administration and Economics (with distinction) and graduated Cum Laude BA in Economics (with distinction) from the Hebrew University of Jerusalem. You can contact Naomi on LinkedIn or by email at naomi.redel@gmail.com.

    Special offer from Naomi for you, our audience

    Available only to On the Brink listeners: a free presentation about collaborative emotional intelligence at work. To receive this game-changing power point, simply DM Naomi (or email her at naomi.redel@gmail.com) and say "I am an On the Brink Listener." Enjoy.

    Want to know more about what Innovation Games can do for your company?

    • Blog: Innovation Games: The Bridge To New, Previously Undiscovered Ideas And Innovations
    • Blog: Why Are Innovation Games In Such Demand?
    • Podcast: Andy and Andi Simon—Innovation Games® Are What You Need To Imagine Your Future

    Additional resources for you

    • My two award-winning books: Rethink: Smashing The Myths of Women in Businessand On the Brink: A Fresh Lens to Take Your Business to New Heights
    • Our website: Simon Associates Management Consultants

    Maria Colacurcio—Stop The Revolving Door. Help Your Employees Embrace A Diverse And Equitable Workplace. Jan 09, 2023
    Show notes

    Hear how to build workplaces where everyone is valued This podcast interview is exceptional. Just listen to Maria Colacurcio tell you about her journey and think about your own. Her career has spanned many different industries, propelling her to leadership positions in innovative companies. Our conversation took us through those profound experiences and unexpected moments that can transform our lives in new ways. Others often accelerated her career, seeing her talent and advocating for her. She speaks about learning on the job and being excited when new career opportunities opened up for her. She also provides wisdom to other women and men trying to build more diverse, equitable and inclusive organizations, and how women are changing our society, a step and then a leap at a time. Enjoy. Watch and listen to our conversation here Maria's mantra: "When preparation meets opportunity" Today, Maria is CEO of Syndio, a SAS startup helping companies worldwide create an equitable workplace for all employees, regardless of gender, race or ethnicity. Before Syndio, she co-founded Smartsheet.com, which went public in 2018. She then spent three years at Starbucks, one of the first Fortune 50 companies to go public with pay equity results. As a CEO, she is walking the walk on eradicating workplace inequities, serving on the board of the nonprofit Fair Pay Workplace and having been named one of the 100 most exceptional entrepreneurs by Goldman Sachs Builders + Innovators Summit for two consecutive years. While her professional career has been exceptional, I was particularly impressed with how Maria wove into our conversation that she is the mother of seven children, gets up before 5am, works for an hour, and then works out. After listening to our interview, let us know how you are growing in your own personal and professional life and who is helping you along the way: Info@simonassociates.net. To connect with Maria, you can find her on LinkedIn and Twitter. Is DEI really possible in today's woprkplaces? Yes! Check out these 3 podcasts Maureen Berkner Boyt—Diversity and Inclusion: Let's Go Beyond Hoping and Make Inclusion Really Happen Rohini Anand—Can Businesses Create Cultures Based On True Diversity, Equity and Inclusion? Kim Graham Lee—How To Build A Culture Where Men And Women Truly Support Each Other Additional resources for you My two award-winning books: Rethink: Smashing The Myths of Women in Businessand On the Brink: A Fresh Lens to Take Your Business to New Heights Our website: Simon Associates Management Consultants Read the transcript of our podcast here Andi Simon: Welcome to On the Brink With Andi Simon. Hi, I'm Andi Simon. I'm your host and your guide. And as we come together for all of our podcasts, I want to celebrate my audience because we're in the top 5% of global podcasts. And I thank you for your support for sharing and collaborating with us on great ideas. My job is to help you do something that's very painful: to see, feel and think in new ways so that you can soar. And I love to bring you my guests because they're going to give you some insights about their own journey, and about how you can get some key takeaways on how you can build your own career, your business or wherever you're doing. So today, I have Maria Colacurcio. And Maria is smiling at me because I'm so delighted to have her here. We're in the process of writing our next book, Women Mean Business. Maria has a whole chapter in it. And in sharing her wisdom, I was just absolutely impressed with who this woman is, what she has done and why she's a wonderful person for you to know more about. Let me tell you about her bio. She's passionate about helping companies build equitable workplaces, where every worker is valued for who they are and their contributions that sort of sets the stage for what she's doing today. And she'll tell you more about it. And Maria is CEO of Syndio, a growth startup, it's really on its way. She helps companies around the world create equitable workplaces, for all employees, regardless of gender, race, or ethnicity. My clients tell me how difficult it is to know whether or not they're paid the same salaries for the same job depending on who the people are, and whether or not they're really doing it intentionally or by chance. Well, give the data to Syndio and next thing you know, you have a really good database, and you know what's going on. Prior to Syndio, Maria co-founded smartsheet.com and went public in 2018. She spent three years at Starbucks. But she started her career working on congressional campaigns and has a long history of mission-driven work, and a compassionate and competitive attitude to spur change. She's smiling. Sometimes when you hear yourself coming back and you go, oh, who is that? And is that really me? She serves on the board of the nonprofit Fair Pay Workplace, and has been named one of the 100 most exceptional entrepreneurs by Goldman Sachs' Builders and Innovators Summit for two consecutive years. She went to Whitworth University where she studied history, political science, and minored in music and studied vocal opera. Isn't that a beautiful Renaissance woman we have? Maria, thank you for joining me today. I truly appreciate it. Now, your turn to tell the audience who is Maria, what's your journey been like? I can read a bio, but you make it come alive. And it's so rich. Please, who's Maria? Maria Colacurcio: Yeah, thank you so much for having me today. It's just a delight to be here. And I've had such a great time collaborating with you on the book. And I'm so looking forward to seeing the 99 other women who are profiled in that. So I am sort of, as you stated, I think I have a very nonlinear path in many, many ways in my life and career. And I think it all culminates in this idea and experience around how do you think about a growth mindset as it actually unfolds in front of you? And for me, when I think about being a history major, going to a very liberal arts-oriented college, being a first generation college grad. I grew up in a very strong Italian American family. My dad and my Italian uncles all served in different branches of the military, none had ever gone to college. So it was really important to my parents that the four of us kids go get an education. And they made that very, very clear to us. So I think being a first gen college grad, it sets you up for your career in a way that you don't even really know what to expect because you haven't had a model to follow in terms of looking at a parental set that sort of did college and then did their entry level internship. You don't really know what to do. So I think as I sort of took the twists and turns of a very nonlinear path, one of the things that it really made clear to me is, I want to be that mentor for other folks that may not have a model to follow in terms of what are the right moves to make. How do you look at a door that may open just a crack and have the courage and confidence to kick it open and go pursue something that might not be the exact sort of choice that most people would make in that situation? So I think to sum it up, non-traditional start in terms of where I ended up as the CEO of a SAS software company. But I also think that's exactly what women need. Women need to have role models who have come from different and diverse backgrounds and are forging ahead and not necessarily looking like CEOs typically look. And so that's something I'm really, really passionate about. Andi Simon: As I'm listening to you, I'm smiling as you're smiling because the absence of role models. So I had a program at Washington University to help women entrepreneurs, and they all said, We need some role models. If you can't see it, you can't be it. And you somehow managed to move your way through things trusting in yourself, not necessarily with a mentor. Were there others who were giving you guidance, or there's some interesting stories you might share about how you began to migrate through? You had different career points, not all leading to something, but all leading somewhere? It was very interesting listening to your bio. Maria Colacurcio: Thank you. I think I owe a lot to other folks, other people who were generous with their time and their experience. And one of the reasons that I am so active in the words that I choose when I talk about our accomplices. So some people use the word allies, but in my career, in my life, the folks that have been in the ring with me fighting for things like equality for folks in the workplace, whether it's gender, race, ethnicity, looking across intersections, the folks that have been in the ring with me, they're accomplices, they're in the fight, back-to-back, holding swords, forging our way ahead. And I certainly personally had that experience. I had a lot of white men in power, who made it a point, for whatever reason, typically a personal case, whether it was something they had experienced or seen a loved one experience, where they had decided they were going to be an accomplice in this fight. And because of that, they took it upon themselves to really put the time in. I had several folks at Starbucks who really mentored me and helped me understand a couple of new areas around pay equity, what was the legislation, what was the process with external counsel, what was the math, all of these things that are the underpinnings to what I do today that I would have had no idea had they not taken the time. And the second example, I think, was when I was hired at Syndio, the CEO, I was hired by people who took a chance on me. I had never been a CEO. I had co-founded a startup that was very successful, but I co-founded it from the seat of marketing and communications. I never led anything as that person in the seat of CEO. So they had to take a chance. They had to say, "We're going to take a chance on this person. And if she doesn't have everything we need, we're going to figure out how to support her." Now, the flip side of that is, I have so much privilege because I'm a white woman. And so if you think about the leg up that I had, it's now incumbent upon me to make sure I'm taking that privilege and bestowing it and helping others make sure that they have those growth opportunities that I had. Andi Simon: I love your story, because you're right, we have an obligation to lift up and to share. But also there is to your point, there's no straight line. And it's not as if there's a ladder we're climbing. We're sort of exploring, and people see something and pluck us up and put us into roles. You know, this imposter syndrome stuff is so interesting. I've always been an imposter. You know, I was SVP of one bank, and EVP of another bank. They all thought I knew more than I knew. I never knew what I didn't know. But in fact, it was okay, we were bold and courageous. And there were always accomplices who wanted to help us move somewhere and they weren't afraid or worried either. As you're doing this, are there some really important lessons that you've learned about how to find the right ones because I had some bad ones along the way. And I never like to share them too often because I want them to go away. But I also know, being an anthropologist, that change is painful. The guys aren't all sitting there saying, "Oh, please come in and take my job. I know you can do a better job than I can do. But why can't I do that job or I don't know, maybe you can't do a better job than me." So the complexity of this means that we need to stand out in some fashion. And as you're helping others move up, they need a great story to tell so that they can pass through this. Your thoughts? Maria Colacurcio: Yeah, I think that's exactly right. I think you've got to take chances when you get them because then again, as you're walking down sort of the corridor of your life's experience as it relates to your career specifically, you'll walk by doors that are open just a crack. And I think our natural response, particularly as women, is to say, Well, I have no business trying to peek into that door that's open just a crack, that's for someone else. That's for someone with more experience, better skills, but more confidence. And I think when you have someone sort of on the other side holding it open for you saying, "Just give it a shot. I've got your back if things go sideways," that's the confidence you need to walk through. And I had that at Starbucks. There was a woman who really took it upon herself to guide me. And I had been in marketing and communications my entire career, and a role opened in finance, working on a team doing enterprise operational planning for the CFO and doing deep finance, work that I had never done before. I was terrified. I was a history major, I was a writer, I was a marketing and communications person, but this woman said, "You gotta do it and here's why: because you're an entrepreneur and if you want to continue fostering leadership and capabilities that will help you run a fortune 500 company someday, you have to understand GAAP and non GAAP, you have to understand these financial terms" that at the time seemed absolutely terrifying to me. But knowing that I had her there, her name was Carrie, and knowing she had my back, it gave me the confidence I needed to sort of walk through the door. And those are the moments I think that are really turning points in a person's career when they're willing to make that nonlinear pivot because they know they have somebody behind them. Andi Simon: You know, we tend to think of our own stories as we share this story. So my story begins to come through because I was a tenured anthropology faculty member, and my husband introduced me to Citibank. And they said, Why don't you come and be a consultant? And I said, Sure, why not? And I had no idea whether it could lead somewhere or not. But what was interesting, being a woman, as you're describing it, is that it was okay to take a step in a new direction, without any linearity to it. But once we got going with it, you say, I can do that. And then where does that take you? But you've been in different kinds of companies. Is your journey different with them? You know, somebody saw you and said, Why don't you try this? Or you went public? And so you can move on to something else? You know, how did you move from one stage to the next? Maria Colacurcio: Yeah, so early in my career when I was in Washington, D.C., working at the Smithsonian, at the National Museum of American History, and then went on to work at a firm that supported nonprofits through nonprofit management, it was as random as meeting a woman. And this is what really happened. I met a woman at a dinner party who said, "You need to be in tech, my company's hiring right now. You would be so great." I was like "Tech? I know nothing about tech. I'm a history major. I've been on congressional campaigns. I work at a history museum." And she said, "Come interview for my company, we're hiring someone in marketing, your background would be perfect. We need a great communicator, communication skills are a big need right now." She really got it, she really got that concept of skills over experience. So I was like, What the heck sounds interesting. The tech boom was going strong. And so I flew to San Francisco, and I interviewed for this startup company. And it was a really technical startup, it was an Israeli-based startup. All the folks that work…

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    342: Kerry Flynn Barrett—Learn Why So Many Brilliant Women Have Ditched The Corporate Ladder To Start Their Own Business Dec 19, 2022
    Show notes

    Hear how to refuse to be held back, especially as a woman I listened to Kerry Flynn Barrett give a marvelous talk recently about burnout for the Westchester Business Council and couldn't wait to share her ideas and insights with our fans. Careers like hers are common among many women I know who have started in a corporate job, moved up the ladder to higher positions in leadership, and then took off to form their own business. Kerry has done just that, and now she is building an exceptional business serving as a fractional CHRO officer and also a business partner and solutions provider. Do you wish to do this too? Listen in! Watch and listen to our conversation here Faced with a wall? Like Kerry, leap over it! In some ways, Kerry Barrett reflects the tensions women in business and corporations are feeling today. Perhaps exaggerated by the pandemic, women are abandoning the corporate ladder to find their own purpose and passion, much like she has done. Kerry spent her entire career in healthcare as a Human Resources executive. She, like so many women, has found that the wave of consolidations taking place these days strips employees, particularly women, of their roles and responsibilities, as centralization moves the decision-making process into other departments. So what do smart women like Kerry do? They craft another pathway and make it work for them. Women today are fleeing dead-end workplaces and starting their own businesses. As you listen to our conversation, think about your own path. Where are you on that corporate ladder? Give serious consideration to what you want to do with your life. As was clearly apparent in the McKinsey "Women in the Workplace 2022" report that came out in October 2022, women are finding the corporate world neither open to their expertise nor accommodating to their talent and ambition. Rather than trying to find a niche, they are leaving rigid workplaces to find others that see them as talented contributors, not women looking for a job. In some ways, many women I know, including myself, have had to confront the limits which corporations offer and discover other avenues where we can contribute, have a personal and professional purpose, and earn an excellent income. Perhaps it is time for business and corporate leaders to see what they are missing and rethink the place of women in their organizations. The women aren't waiting. In fact, they are very smart ladies on their own missions to build better businesses. To connect with Kerry, you can find her on LinkedIn, Twitter, or her website, or email her at kfb@flynnbarrett.com. Want to find a better workplace environment or strike out on your own? Start here: Blog: Businesses Must Sustain Diversity And Inclusion For Women Podcast: Christina Sistrunk—Is There Magic To Excel As A Strong Woman In A Man's Industry? Podcast: Jodi Flynn—How To Go From Dreaming To Doing, At Work And In Life Additional resources for you My two award-winning books: Rethink: Smashing The Myths of Women in Businessand On the Brink: A Fresh Lens to Take Your Business to New Heights Our website: Simon Associates Management Consultants Read the transcript of our podcast here Andi Simon: Welcome to On the Brink With Andi Simon. Hi, I'm Andi Simon. I'm your host and your guide. And as I say in every podcast, my job is to get you off the brink. Remember, this all came about after my first book, On the Brink: A Fresh Lens to Take Your Business to New Heights, was published and won an award. And everybody said, How do I get off the brink? And there's no better way to do it than to listen to the speakers on this podcast talk about how you can get better at whatever you're doing to change. Remember, people hate to change. And so our job is to make change your friend, embrace change, and see things through a fresh lens. And I say that because we decide with the eyes and with the heart and how it feels. And then our brains get engaged and you begin to think about it. So today, I'm absolutely delighted to have with me Kerry Flynn Barrett, and let me tell you about Kerry. Kerry gave a talk at the Westchester Business Council not too long ago. And I was just intrigued by her presentation. That topic was on burnout. But what was most interesting was her perspectives that came from a healthcare background, like my own. I did that for seven years in healthcare as an executive. I wasn't a nurse as she was, but I sure understood the feelings that you get when you're working with an organization of over 2500 or 5000 people, all of whom work hard to make your life better. And then she launched her business not long ago to be, of all things, a Chief Human Resource Officer. And she's going to tell you a little bit more about her journey. But the question she's asking is, Are you an organization that understands that people are your most valuable assets? And I must tell you, coming out of the pandemic, people are reaching out to us and asking us what to do because everything's changed. Managing individuals with individual needs and roles is challenging for even the best companies, and managing people is the hardest job, full stop. In fact, we can't get anything done as leaders or managers without followers. And why do people follow you? Are they bystanders? Are they invested in what you're doing? Do they believe in you? Every leader asked me the same question: "How do I get things done through others?" To begin with, how about with others instead of through them? It's an interesting question. Kerry, thank you for joining me today. Kerry Flynn Barrett: Thank you Andi so much for having me. It's such a pleasure. Andi Simon: Well, it was a pleasure to meet you. But let's tell our listeners and our viewers about your own journey. You have a great story to share. Please share it. Kerry Flynn Barrett: Sure. So I believe very strongly in the fact that we are all "a person" from the start. It doesn't mean that's what our journey will be where we began. So I began as a nurse. I have worked in healthcare for so many years. But that doesn't mean that's the only place where my journey was. So I was a nurse, an ICU and emergency department nurse, for over 12 years. And I love doing what I did. But then I switched over to the world of HR. And I worked in that field for 25 or so years, and loved every minute of it, really, truly. It's such a fascinating world. And when you think about it, it's all about working with people, right?, nursing, and HR. It's all about working with people and coming up with different strategies. And as I have said, and what I work in in my practice, I use the nursing process all the time in my practice. So it's all about that process. It's about how we assess what's going on in a scenario. We have to listen, as you said, we have to use our eyes. We also have to use our ears. So that's such an important part of my journey in going from nursing into HR. Three years ago, I started my own practice, Flynn Barrett Consulting, right before the pandemic. So probably all of you are saying, Oh my goodness gracious, how do you start a business and then boom, the pandemic hits. So I have been incredibly lucky. Or just happenstance to be in HR at a time in the pandemic when HR was really needed. So it's been quite the journey and even from the time of starting my business, that business has flowed very differently in the three years of time. So I refer to myself as a fractional chief HR officer. So I help companies with their HR strategy. And I use, as I said, the nursing process in what I do with companies. So,often companies come to me because they are having people problems. As we said, in companies, really the most important asset are their people. And this is such a difficult time in the world right now, with people finding new jobs, leaving their organizations, the great resignation. How many people are just really sick of hearing that term? I'm sick of hearing that term, or the other term, which is quiet quitting. I have employers saying to me, or CEOs saying to me, "How do I know that my employees are not quiet quitting?" Well, you know, this is one of the challenges that a lot of companies are facing. So people's problems are huge right now. So it is a lot of fun working at this time. But equally, there are so many challenges that are out there. And it doesn't mean that there is always the perfect solution for one company or if it is exactly the same solution for that next company. Andi Simon: Well, you know, Kerry, when we were preparing for this, I mentioned that we have several leadership academies. And the topic is around how does one get things done with others? That's the essence of a company. And sometimes people come to me and say, "We have an enormous retention problem. It's our culture, we want to go back to the culture of pre-pandemic." But what was that culture of pre pandemic? I love the Financial Times, my favorite reading in the morning, and its tremendous insights. In France, for example, they insist that you do not work on the weekends. You have your private time. Talking about burnout. And now I think Portugal and Spain have adopted this as well. The hardest part when you're remote working, is: what is the weekend? The weekend? And how do you do it? And then you have a hybrid? And there was great research from McKinsey, I was just reading, where women are perfectly happy not going back. And how are they using the time that they're not commuting? Well, they're doing all kinds of fulfilling things. Remember that work-life balance? Well, it got imbalanced, because now I have time to do life. And so there are real transformations going on. And as you shake your head, yes, our listeners, she's shaking her head. The question is, What are you seeing in your process analysis to help a client listening to think through what would I do now to begin to assess the major questions that are facing us as employers and employees to get our businesses really thriving? Your thoughts? Kerry Flynn Barrett: Well, I will tell you, very often, in this time, right now, employers are saying, Should I bring my employees back full time? That seems to be the top question. And my response is by answering it with a question: Why do you need to bring your employees back full time? And so I think it's important for that analysis to be done as to: Is it important for that particular business. And it does depend upon the business. Obviously, if we're talking about the hospitality business, that's a different story, and the healthcare business. Depending upon the position within the business, it makes a difference. If you're talking about a finance position within healthcare, that's a position that could be remote or hybrid, as opposed to a direct caregiver obviously needing to be in-person. So we need to be looking at this very specifically down to those nitty gritty details to make sense of whether or not we're bringing people back. So that makes a very big difference when we're talking about culture. And when I hear companies say, "Oh, I want to go back to what the culture used to be," or "Employees are being very demanding now," I will say, "Well, tell me what you mean by employees being very demanding?" "Well, my employees are saying that they require that they work hybrid." And so my response is always, "Well, is it something that works for your workplace for them to work hybrid?" "Well, yes, it does." "Well, then if it does, why is it that we're calling those employees demanding? Isn't it something that actually is working? And why aren't we working together as a team on what's best for your organization, rather than having more of an argument about it, and fighting about it?" So it's really fascinating because in my lifetime, I think about these demanding employees and I wish I could have been a little bit more demanding as an employee when I was earlier in my career. I probably would have done way better. But I don't think that in many cases, employees are actually being demanding. I think employers are actually looking at some scenarios, and actually looking at them now with rose colored glasses, but looking at them thoughtfully and saying, Does it really make a difference if I'm doing this work at home or in the office? And I recently actually wrote a blog about this. If in fact, we're bringing employees back to the office, and they're sitting in an office, and they're on Zoom calls in the office, what is the point? That just makes absolutely no sense. So then the employees feel like, "Well, you've really kind of duped me, that is just not really treating me as a professional." So if in fact, you have meaningful work for somebody in the office, and that makes sense, then absolutely. But if you don't, then let's really think about that twice. All in all, sit down with your employees, talk with your employees, listen to what their challenges are. Just listen to them for their ideas because they have great thoughts. That's why you hired them. Otherwise, it's not a great reflection on you if you think that you've hired people who aren't that smart. You hired them because they're smart, and you should listen to them. Andi Simon: I love the conversation where it's about feeling. Two things I want to add. I often preach, being an anthropologist as I am, that words create our worlds. And as I'm listening to you, I can hear the leadership, the C-suite, mimicking others who are all too often men thinking about their stature. And they're mastering being in the C-suite. And that is about demand, and owning and controlling the environment in which people are working. And I find that the most exciting clients I have are the ones who are asking the questions with a real openness to change the words that are creating their worlds, that we know that the challenge for humans is, we live the stories in our minds. And there's nothing more frightening than change because the cortisol is flying around there saying, Oh, fear this. But for those who are leading, pause for a moment and change the story: couldn't you be a leader in the next breed of companies that thrive and thrive? Remember, some of the major companies weren't perfect. For example, in a global company with everyone remote, take a look at what people can do if they aren't in the office. And the gig economy has become a really interesting, flexible workforce for you. But it requires you to change your mind. And don't be a copycat. Think about what it is that you can do and create something new. Because everything is new now. It's not what used to be, right? Kerry Flynn Barrett: That's right. It doesn't mean that just because somebody isn't working in front of you, that they're not working. And productivity can be measured in different ways than tracking someone's computer. Andi Simon: Now, that's a big topic. Are we moving to outcomes evaluation as opposed to punch cards? And time? Are we still in a machine model mode of a workplace? Are we managing minds? And I thought, I've been preaching for many years now that we've moved from managing hands to managing minds. But the mindset of coming back into the office feels like, "I kind of manage that person," as opposed to the product. What do you see? Kerry Flynn Barrett: I'm seeing a little bit of both. I'm seeing a little bit of both, and I think it depends upon the particular leader. I think that unfortunately, sometimes past practi…

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    341: Christina Sistrunk—Is There Magic To Excel As A Strong Woman In A Man's Industry? Dec 12, 2022
    Show notes

    Hear how to make the most of your choices, at work and in life Meet Christina Sistrunk, former President and CEO at Aera Energy. You are going to love listening to her wisdom for thriving in the male-dominated energy industry. As Christina will share with you, she found that the hardest problems to solve usually were the ones around how well people work together, or don't, that made the problems more complicated. She explains how figuring out how to bring people together and enable them to be as successful as they had the potential to be was the most challenging part of being a leader, especially a woman leader. A lot to learn! Watch and listen to our conversation here Your ability to think independently actually creates opportunities One of Christina's main joys at this stage in her career is helping people understand how they can be more effective, not only in their career, but even in their personal life, about seeing the opportunity to make different choices. Better choices create better outcomes, whether at work, or at home. You can connect with Christina on LinkedIn or by email, sistrunk1984@gmail.com. For more guidance about career choices and following your passion, start with these: Blog: How Can You Thrive As A Woman In A Male-Dominated Industry? 5 Steps To Follow Podcast: Vicki Baker—Isn't It Time For You To Power Through To Your Next Career Stop? Podcast: Claire Harbour-Lyell—Disrupt Your Career To Reach Even Greater Heights Additional resources for you My two award-winning books: Rethink: Smashing The Myths of Women in Businessand On the Brink: A Fresh Lens to Take Your Business to New Heights Our website: Simon Associates Management Consultants Read the transcript of our podcast here Andi Simon: Welcome to On the Brink With Andi Simon. Hi, I'm Andi Simon. I'm your host and your guide. And as such, my job is to help you get off the brink. I want you to soar again. And sometimes you need some new ideas, a fresh approach, interesting ways to see, feel and think in new ways. Remember, we decide with our eyes and our heart. And all of a sudden you say, "I don't know where I'm going." I keep hearing over and over among my clients, even my colleagues, my friends, "What's next?" So it's important for you to begin to see what is next, regardless of where you are on your life's journey. It's good to have a vision for yourself, a personal one of what you would like to see happen as you go through life. It's better than figuring it out on the fly, and it's better than trying to make decisions without any direction. But it's always interesting to listen to wonderful people who have had great journeys. And they want to share them with you so that you too can see how life can move along and take you to great places. So today, Evelyn Medvin is a wonderful woman who has a chapter in my book, Rethink: Smashing The Myths of Women in Businesss. And Evelyn is just wonderful. Her story's wonderful. She celebrates being a geoscientist when there are many women there. So she introduced me to Christina Sistrunk. Now, Christina has had a very wonderful career. Let me tell you about her, then she'll tell you about her own journey. But listen carefully, because she has grown up in a world where women aren't usually successful. And when you begin to understand others, and they become your role models, you begin to say, ah, that's how we do it. And of course, I can do it. And next thing you know, remember, if I can't see it, I can't be it. So see her as somebody who you too could be. So here's Christina's resume. Over 30 years, Christina has held management and executive roles, focusing on assessing and delivering next level performance. And that's always an interesting term. She's led organizations across EMP industries, both IOC and independent, ranging in revenue from two to ten billion. She was CEO of Aera Energy for five years. I'm going to let her tell you a little bit more about what EMP means and what the CEO of Aera Energy was like. But I'll finish her resume so that we can get into her story of how she has experienced organizational turnarounds, including cash management and restructuring. Her focus has been on value creation, through the development of effective strategy, execution, improved leadership capability and accountability. Now, you know that I have several leadership academies out there. And one of the themes for leaders as followers, and how do you hold them accountable? And how do they get inspired to want to do this, so that they're giving the gift of giving back, as opposed to waiting to be told what to do? So her expertise is extremely relevant, regardless of what industry you're in. She's improved cash flow and profitability while creating step changes in safety and environmental performance and stakeholder engagement. Prior to her CEO role, she was a VP focused on, of all things, deep water production, and then the Arctic strategy, which is sort of interesting all by itself. Now, she started her career after earning a BS in Chemical Engineering from Ohio State University. But she's ready to tell you more about who is Christina Sistrunk and why it's so wonderful to have her on today. Christina, thank you for joining me. Christina Sistrunk: I'm so glad to be here. Thank you for making the time for me. Andi Simon: You have a great smile, we're going to do a lot of smiling today. I know the audience wants to know about Christina, your journey. How did you choose to go into this field? I have a hunch that there weren't a lot of female role models who were embracing it and tasting it. But you're an explorer, and one who's willing to take on all kinds of new stuff, solving complex problems in different ways and giving a great twist to the journey that you've been on. Who are you and tell our audience all about you? Christina Sistrunk: Well, thank you so much. I think I'll start kind of at the beginning, right. So I was raised in a town of 7,000 people in a rural part of Ohio and neither of my parents graduated from high school. And so thinking about what I wanted to do career-wise, I went through public school and really had an interest in science and math. And actually, at a fairly young age, my recollection is, it was sometime around when I was about 12, my dad, who worked in a union job in a factory, sat me down and said, "Look, every time you come home excited about what you might want to do, what you want to be when you grow up, it requires college.. You have to understand, we don't have the resources to do that. We'll do everything we can to try and support you, but that's not something that you can necessarily count on. So you're going to have to figure out how to make this work if that's what you really want." So I got very focused on academics and what I needed to do and where there were opportunities for scholarships. And just as I talked to people, and I talked to people that were a couple years older than me and as I got closer to college, I talked to friends who were in college about different career choices. I realized that the interest I had in science and math probably put me on a pathway to better financial stability. And I'd also seen my father work in a job for decades that he didn't seem to like or enjoy. And so I wanted to find something that I could do that I could support myself, that would also allow me to have a satisfying and rewarding career. And so I decided to go into engineering, partly because I was torn between advanced math, education and engineering. And a friend who was a little older said, "Well, here's the thing. If you go into education, and you figure out you don't like it, and then you want to switch to engineering, you can't do that and get out of college in four years with your scholarships right now. But if you start in engineering, decide you don't like it and want to switch to education, you'll still be able to get out in four years. The first complex problem to solve, what's the backup plan?" And so I started engineering, went to Ohio State University, partly because of scholarships that were available to me there and the affordability of that as an institution, because I didn't want to have a bunch of debt when I got out of school. And had a great education and had a lot of opportunities because of making that choice. But also, I never met an engineer until I got to college. So the worst engineers that I ever met were professors at the university. So I committed to studying something that I really didn't have a good understanding of. But the more I learned, the more excited I got about the opportunities that were open. And in fact, how many opportunities were available. If you studied engineering or other STEM fields of study, the choices were much different than had I chosen other disciplines to start with. And that kept me very excited. I then did some interning while I was still in college, got a better idea of what was involved in various aspects of the industry, and in fact, did an internship after my sophomore year in exploration and production in oil and gas. So that's the part of the business that figures out where to drill the wells, how to drill the wells safely, how to get the oil and gas out of the ground, and then deliver it to pipelines, where it then goes to be made into a variety of products. But the upstream part of the business kind of lets go of it once it goes into the pipeline, and others take over from there. And it was like a giant puzzle every day trying to figure out where the oil was. How do we get it out in the best way possible? How do we figure out what's going on with the wells? And so it always felt like a puzzle where you try to figure out what was going on, sometimes three miles away from you underground, to keep the process flowing. And I really enjoyed that. As I went through my career, I got an opportunity to take on a lot of different kinds of roles. And then I started to see that, as much as I was originally drawn to the business because of the technical challenges, I found that actually the hardest problems to solve usually were the ones around how the overall system worked and how people work together, or didn't, that made the problems more complicated. And that actually figuring out how to bring people together and enable them to be as successful as they had the potential to be was an even more challenging part of the business. And that's when I started to move into supervisory and then managerial roles, and ultimately winding up as a CEO running a California oil and gas company for five years. And, it really was about taking things step by step, thinking about often, "If this were my business, whatever job I was in, if I was a supervisor, or a department manager, if this were my business, how do we actually deliver value?" And that's just not financial numbers. How do we make the business safer? Or do we make sure we're developing our employees and do the employees feel valued in what they're doing? So how do we deliver that value? Better than we did last year? And where are the opportunities? Where are the risks? And how do we unleash the capacity that we've got to make a difference in this part of the business? So, honestly being a woman in oil and gas for over three decades, I won't tell you that everybody I worked with just embraced me with open arms and expected me to succeed. But I will say, I think many more people did than the industry often gets credit for. I think what helped me be successful was, I almost came from such an odd background. So my parents didn't have a lot of expectations about what I was going to do educationally. I had to figure out why I was there. So I had always had an underlying desire or compass that was driving me about figuring out how these things worked, and figuring out how I could make a difference. One of the great things about working in a technical field, even if you don't see a lot of other role models that might look exactly like you, that commitment around understanding those challenges and contributing to those challenges, and your ability to think independently, maybe partly because my background was so different, actually creates opportunities. And it's about kind of having your "Spidey sense" up to say, "If that opportunity isn't going to be available to me, where else can I go, and contribute and learn what I need to learn next?" And usually, there's some other place where somebody's looking for talent, and we'll be happy to have you come join if you're committed to making a difference and helping people around you be successful. We might have to take a little different path, but if you just keep looking for those opportunities, you will find them. Andi Simon: Let's emphasize that there isn't a straight line between where we start and where we end up. And if you think there is, perhaps there was at one point, but no more, and I don't really think there ever was. It isn't about others making the path for you. It's about you being able to control and accelerate your own growth and curiosity, and know yourself and tell a story that is embraced by others and not threatening. I hear a lot of this is around collaboration, this is creativity, this isn't about an ego that needs to soar. This is about a woman who wants to build. I need a few illustrations because I'm just a curious person. So as you're digging for oil, in the underground deep water area, and then the Arctic, lessons learned, insights to share? I'm just curious, what was it like and how did you live there? Christina Sistrunk: Well, you know, it looked different in different times. So you know, a parallel path on this journey: I actually met my husband on a rig in the Gulf of Mexico. Oh, that's a great step. I think any woman that is going to be successful in business, you make lots of decisions that help you along the way in business, but I've got to say, who you choose as your spouse, and the level of support that they're willing to put on the table to make your partnership work, to make you successful, for you to make them successful, that is a really important choice. And it can make the road a lot easier, or it can make the road exponentially more difficult. And so that's an important choice I made career-wise as well, we're also trying to balance, you know, we had a child fairly early in my career. And because my husband worked away from home about 50% of the time, there were times in my career when I knew I wanted to limit how much I wanted to travel or what kind of roles I wanted to be in for a period of time, because our child needed a level of stability at home that I wanted to make sure we could provide. And, so you think that that might automatically change what you have the potential to do. And it probably did. But a career is a very long runway. And so, again, the path may take some jogs in it, but it's about how you are true to your values. How are you true to the talents that you start to realize that you've got, or that you have the ability to develop? And what's your plan for what the next one looks? And the next after that? And how do you start to gain the skills and experience that you think you're going to need? If you were the hiring manager, what would you be looking for? And how do you put yourself in that position? So you know, at one point in time, I'll tell you about a story when I was actually working as a VP in the Gulf of Mexico, for Shell. And we had done a lo…

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