More or Less - Dave Morin, Jessica Lessin, Brit Morin, and Sam Lessin

Latest Episodes:

#112 Swift Should Buy Chrome, Not Perplexity Aug 15, 2025

Show notes

This week, the team dives into more meme capitalism, the AI hype cycle, and why San Francisco is still the epicenter of tech ambition (and some very odd real estate choices). We debate the real value behind Perplexity, the future of Chrome, and the myths founders tell themselves about trials and second chances. Plus: Taylor Swift, conspiracy AIs, and the ultimate contrarian takes for VCs and founders. Your usual well rounded and brutally honest weekly episode of More or Less.

Chapters:

00:00 – Taylor Swift Should Buy Chrome?!

02:30 – SF Comeback: The AI Pied Piper Effect

06:30 – Meme Capitalism: Conference of the Future

14:00 – AI Bubble Watch: Perplexity’s Valuation

17:30 – Founder Redemption: Always Call Your VCs

20:00 – The Dirty Secret of SaaS Trials

25:00 – Chrome Antitrust Circus

29:00 – AI Hardware: Bring Back the Flashlight

35:00 – Taylor Swift: Peak Culture or Just Getting Started?

43:00 – Conspiracy AI: The Next Meme Machine?

We’re also on ↓

X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspodInstagram: https://instagram.com/moreorlessSpotify: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/moreorlesspod

Connect with us here:

1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin

2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin

3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin

4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

#111 Figma, OpenAI, Canva: the Rise of Meme Stock IPOs in Silicon Valley Aug 08, 2025

Show notes

This week on More or Less: Jessica Lessin, Dave Morin, Brit Morin, and Sam Lessin dive deep into the surprisingly busy summer of venture capital, the impact of AI on startups, and the changing rules for founders and investors. From Figma’s IPO and the rise of meme-driven investing to the challenge of diligence in an AI-saturated world, we tackle the uncomfortable truths and new dynamics shaping Silicon Valley today.

Chapters:

01:46 – Dude Perfect vs. The Circus: The Internet Killed Local Art

05:46 – The Creator Quality Bar Keeps Rising

07:46 – Figma IPO: Did Wall Street Fleeced Them?

10:46 – SaaS Is NOT Back & The Real IPO Signal

13:26 – OpenAI: The Ultimate Meme Stock?

15:46 – Seed Investing is Broken in the AI Era

20:46 – Valley Mood: Exuberance and Angst

22:46 – The Feudalism 2.0 Problem

39:46 – The Uncomfortable Truth About Founder Age & Life Stage

45:46 – Deep Work, Distraction, and the Future of Founders

We’re also on ↓

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Instagram: https://instagram.com/moreorless

Spotify: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/moreorlesspod

YouTube: https://youtu.be/D5Y-WZqsAlE

Connect with us here:

1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin

2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin

3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin

4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

#110 Meta's Billion-Dollar Hires: Bubble or Genius? Aug 01, 2025

Show notes

What happens when VCs are called the least sophisticated financiers, AI researchers get billion-dollar paydays, and outrage becomes the new marketing? This week on More or Less, the full crew breaks down the state of the AI talent wars, the power of meme-driven marketing, and whether hope (not financial literacy) still drives Silicon Valley.

Chapters:01:15 Jersey Shore, Laundry, and Marital Advice

05:08 Sydney Sweeney Outrage: Meme Marketing & Stock Surges

18:32 VCs Are the Least Sophisticated Financiers

22:20 AI Billionaires: Comp Bubbles & Power Laws

27:09 Will Billion-Dollar AI Talent Stay?

32:24 Social Graph Recruiting: The New Acqui-Hire

38:52 AI Comp Bubble: Lessons from the iOS Gold Rush

44:22 The Robot That Folds Clothes (and Why It’s a Billion-Dollar Job)

50:11 Outrage Marketing: Fad or Future?

We’re also on ↓

X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspod

Instagram: https://instagram.com/moreorless

Spotify: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/moreorlesspod

Connect with us here:

1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin

2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin

3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin

4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

#109 OpenAI vs Google: The Real Business Model War Begins Jul 25, 2025

Show notes

This week on More or Less, Sam Lessin, Brit Morin, and Dave Morin dive into the startup world and how today's founders need to bring fun back into the ecosystem, why most public policy around AI is just noise, whether Apple’s best move is to simply not care about AI hype, and the business model reckoning for OpenAI. Stay till the very end for a sneaky savage moment from Brit!

Chapters:

02:00 – The Real Reason Early VC Worked: Fun

03:50 – Authentic Fun vs. Fake Fun in Startups

05:40 – AI Hacks, JSON, and the Joy of Building

09:45 – AI Data, Human Correction, and Social Graphs

12:15 – Tesla’s Trillion-Dollar Marketing Stunts

16:23 – Google’s CapEx, Meta’s Moat, and AI Spending

18:15 – OpenAI’s Extension: Business Model Reckoning

27:08 – Apple’s AI Strategy: Does Not Caring Win?

36:20 – AI Companions & The Threat to Social Platforms

39:15 – Google’s Secret Weapon: Let OpenAI Take the Bullshit

47:15 – Founders: Build What You Love, Or Regret It

53:30 – Savage Brit & Monjaro Shots in NYC

We’re also on ↓

X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspod

Instagram: https://instagram.com/moreorless

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@MoreorLessPod

Connect with us here:

1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin

2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin

3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin

4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

#108 Meta vs. OpenAI: Who Wins the Next Attention War? Jul 18, 2025

Show notes

In this episode of More or Less, we dive into the shifting landscape of AI, attention, and business models. From the rise of ChatGPT as both productivity tool and entertainment, to the coming collision between commerce and AI-driven recommendations, the Morins and Lessins debate what’s hype, what’s real, and where the next big opportunities are for startups and VCs. Plus: the truth about local news, why coding is fun again, and a pop culture corner you won’t want to miss.

Chapters:

01:30 – Wedding Stories & The Early Jackson Hole Days

03:00 – Interviewing Mark Zuckerberg Goes Wrong

09:30 – Building Audiences: Why Longer is Better (and Sponsors Are Lining Up)

14:00 – Is AI for Productivity or Personal Use? The Real Data

16:00 – Big Tech vs. Startups: Who Wins Consumer AI?

20:00 – Can AI Save Local News? The Verticalization Debate

24:00 – The Real Business of Local Data: City Councils and Real Estate

28:30 – AI Business Models: Advertising, Affiliate, or Something New?

31:00 – Is AI Stealing Attention from Instagram? The Frenetic Race

33:00 – Commerce, Discovery, and the Death of Search

37:00 – The Productivity Trap: Why Margins Go to Zero

39:00 – How Are VCs Really Using AI? The Memory Game

40:30 – AI as Entertainment: Coding vs. Netflix

43:00 – The Future of Commerce: Push vs. Pull, Meta vs. OpenAI

46:00 – Google, Gemini, and the Battle for Relevance

47:30 – Late Night Coding: Why Claude Is Addictive

53:00 – Pop Culture Corner: Lena Dunham, AI Bands, and Wimbledon

We’re also on ↓X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspodInstagram: https://instagram.com/moreorlessSpotify: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/moreorlesspodConnect with us here:1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

#107 Anatoly Yakovenko: Crypto Isn’t for Everyone (And That’s a Good Thing) Jul 11, 2025

Show notes

We’re joined by a very special guest, Solana founder Anatoly Yakovenko for a wide-ranging conversation on crypto, tech, and what’s next. He breaks down the “punks, hoodies, suits” cycle, why AI is just a product while crypto is a movement, and how stablecoins are quietly driving global USD adoption. He shares his $1T stablecoin prediction, explains the Solana phone’s goal to challenge app store monopolies, and argues that crypto’s future lies not in mass adoption, but in serving a small group of high-value users.

Chapters:

00:00 Intro & Anatoly’s Backstory

03:20 Crypto’s Evolution: Punks, Hoodies, and Suits

07:00 Bitcoin, Meme Investing, and the Value of Ideas

12:00 Meme Coins: Infrastructure and Insanity

17:45 Why Build a Crypto Phone? Platform Wars Explained

24:00 Talent, Incentives, and the Crypto Dilemma

30:00 Stablecoins, Dollar Hegemony, and Global Finance

39:50 The Punks Are the Bankers Now

41:10 The Internet, Extremes, and the Death of Truth

49:00 Engagement, Incentives, and the Future of Platforms

52:20 Are the Punks Too Rich to Care?

54:30 Wrap-Up: Bold Predictions and Where Crypto Goes Next

We’re also on ↓

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Instagram: https://instagram.com/moreorless

Spotify: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/moreorlesspod

Connect with us here:

1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin

2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin

3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin

4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

#106: AI Researchers Earning More Than Cristiano Ronaldo Jul 04, 2025

Show notes

This week, the gloves come off. We're diving into Meta's raid on OpenAI, asking if Mark Zuckerberg is the new Yankees of AI and who will be the 'Moneyball' underdog. Plus, a hot take on why usage-based pricing for AI is a flawed model, the challenge of creating 'God-tier' content that works everywhere, and why AI researchers are now earning more than soccer superstars. It's a packed episode you don't want to miss!

Chapters:

00:00 - Intro

01:18 - X vs. Threads: A Tale of Two Internets

04:38 - The “God Content” Challenge: Can You Go Viral Everywhere?

11:15 - Google’s “Last Gasp” to Save Publishers

14:23 - The Next Big Thing: Vanity Checks & Gold Delivery

20:15 - The Problem with AI Business Models

21:52 - Usage-Based Pricing is Generally Bad

26:45 - The Big News: Meta’s OpenAI Raid

29:45 - The AI Moneyball Era: Who are the Oakland A’s?

34:26 - What Will Meta’s New Super-Team Actually Build?

41:10 - The “Baller” Leader Move OpenAI Didn’t Make

42:50 - AI Researchers Are The New Rockstars

44:45 - F1 Movie: The Best Film of the Year?

We’re also on ↓

X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspod

Instagram: https://instagram.com/moreorless

Spotify: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/moreorlesspod

Connect with us here:

1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin

2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin

3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin

4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

#105: Tesla, Bumble, And Bezos' Wedding - Everything Is A Mess Jun 27, 2025

Show notes

Join the More or Less crew for a Summer Edition from the cabins! We dive into how AI is reshaping hiring, the future of resumes, the rise of agentic coding assistants, and why service businesses suck (unless you're Brit doing a fun side-hustle ). As always, we tackle the latest in tech news from The Information, from OpenAI's copyright battles to the next phase of Bumble and the realities of Tesla's Robotaxis.

We’re also on ↓X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspodInstagram: https://instagram.com/moreorlessSpotify: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/moreorlesspod

Connect with us here:1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

#104: AI Clones, Commoditized Ads, and the Cult of Trust Jun 20, 2025

Show notes

This week on More or Less, we dive into the escalating AI talent wars, Meta’s bold moves, and what the latest hires really mean for the future of AI innovation. The More or Less team break down why product execution is overtaking research wizardry, what's happening between OpenAI and Microsoft, and how AI is reshaping inbound for all markets.We’re also on ↓X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspodInstagram: https://instagram.com/moreorlessSpotify: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/moreorlesspodConnect with us here:1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

#103: Are Silicon Valley’s Mega-Deals Just Talent Grabs? Jun 13, 2025

Show notes

This week on More or Less: Is Austin out-innovating San Francisco in self-driving tech? Why Apple’s WWDC liquid glass announcement a bigger deal than you think. The real story behind Meta’s $14B Scale AI move, and the new economics of AI talent. Plus, what’s next for startup investing in an era where talent trumps business models. We’re also on ↓X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspodInstagram: https://instagram.com/moreorlessSpotify: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/moreorlesspodConnect with us here:1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

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