More or Less - Dave Morin, Jessica Lessin, Brit Morin, and Sam Lessin

Latest Episodes:

TPUs Are Winning? Gemini + Anthropic vs NVIDIA, and OpenAI’s Atlas Explained Oct 24, 2025

Show notes

The gang is back with a spicy opener: Brit calls out Dave for dismissing her “AI-assisted” doc as work slop, while Sam argues lowbrow culture now imitates machines and highbrow culture resists them. We break down OpenAI’s early, hallucination-prone Atlas browser and debate whether it’s a real agent platform, just memory capture, or total $$$ burn. Sora hype is cooling as TPUs rise—with Jessica noting how The Information's TPU scoop even nudged NVIDIA to move faster. OpenAI’s compute could approach ~$45B/year at ~3 GW, forcing new financing models and tough research vs GTM trade-offs—Sam calls it Pascal’s Wager for Big Tech. We close on AWS outages, crypto leverage swings, and why “swag is dead,” replaced by bespoke gifting as the new status move. Just another week of your favorite Technology podcast with the Morins and Lessins.Chapters:00:38 — Gang is back: notes on last episode and Yasso bars01:20 — Revisiting last week's “AI Work Slop”: Brit vs. Dave 03:49 — Culture vs. LLMs: highbrow resists, lowbrow imitates07:16 — Bot etiquette: Bot joining Zoom calls and writing thank you letters12:16 — OpenAI Atlas: early tests, hallucinations & agency potential17:29 — Sora hype cools: the consumer AI novelty cycle19:47 — The TPU plot twist: NVIDIA gets pushed to move faster22:40 — $45B compute future: Pascal’s Wager for Big Tech29:05 — AWS outages: one-offs vs systemic risk33:29 — The X Game: Mr.Beast, “manual slop,” and the screenshot era43:38 — Swag is dead: bespoke gifting = new status flex53:43 — Sports, socials & 2026 predictionsWe’re also on ↓X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspodInstagram: https://instagram.com/moreorlessYouTube: https://youtu.be/VDYdIoHe4XAConnect with us here:1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

Meta’s Teen Rules, OpenAI’s Content Shift, and Roblox the New Social Media? Oct 17, 2025

Show notes

Jessica and Dave dive into the messy intersection of AI, culture, and the next wave of consumer tech. From the rise of “AI slop” to whether founders should build apps just for themselves, they debate what survives the model wars and what gets eaten alive. Along the way: 2025 Silicon Valley weirdness, $1B AI comp with no products, GLP-1 memes, kids treating Fortnite like the new social network, and California’s crackdown on youth tech. It’s part therapy session, part future forecast—the only technology podcast that you should listen to before you head into the weekend.

Chapters:

00:40 Intro: The first “Jave” episode

01:17 The Grove lore: Ground zero of social networks

03:19 What’s actually working in consumer AI?

12:26 The Information’s mobile app and engagement lift

14:51 Summarization as the killer consumer use case

16:17 The “AI slop” problem in real work product

19:35 2025 Silicon Valley culture: dead internet, Sora slop, $1B comp

21:08 Refounding era (Handshake) and trendwatching

23:01 Startup to watch: BitRig and iPhone apps that build apps25:06 Why personalized apps

32:54 OpenAI Dev Day paranoia: Who gets eaten?

44:32 Parenting choices: Roblox/YouTube vs curated apps

58:36 Algorithmic novelty vs repetition comfort

01:02:47 OpenAI recalibrates adult content

We’re also on ↓

X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspod

Instagram: https://instagram.com/moreorless

YouTube: https://youtu.be/Iug0dyIlpsA

Connect with us here:1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

Oracle's GPU Margins, OpenAI’s Consumer Playbook, and the Ads vs Commerce Endgame Oct 10, 2025

Show notes

This week on More or Less: Jess drops The Information’s scoop on Oracle’s shaky GPU rental margins and how it spooked markets, while Sam insists AI workloads will soar, even if profits don’t. Dave crunches the numbers: an “Apollo program every 10 months,” data centers now powering half of U.S. GDP, and capital getting sucked from factories into GPUs. On the culture beat: Google’s Zeitgeist goes no-swag chic, Taylor gets her own Google Easter egg, and Instagram ads become the prototype for AI’s ad future, Restoration Hardware jet memes, Waymo etiquette, Bari Weiss’ $150M Free Press–meets–CBS glow-up, and more. Never a dull moment with the MOL squad.Chapters:01:17 – Slow's Etiquette Finishing school on 11/5 (Apply here: https://luma.com/vmd7rz6j)04:02 – Why everyone is replicating YC demo day17:15 – AI bubble check + Sora usage uptick18:04 – Oracle GPU rental margins scoop21:21 – Quantum skepticism24:26 – AI bubble propping up the U.S. GDP33:20 – OpenAI renting GPUs; finance structures everywhere38:48 – Where AI profits come from: ads, subs, commerce (nothing proven)42:31 – Bari Weiss’ Free Press sold for $150M; CBS Editor-in-Chief57:06 – Yoni Rechtman’s “self-promotion” stunt + Sam’s viral MrBeast post on XWe’re also on ↓X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspodInstagram: https://instagram.com/moreorlessYouTube: https://youtu.be/p1bmrugU_6EConnect with us here:1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

#119 OpenAI Sora vs. TikTok: Can “AI Entertainment” Fund the Compute Bill? Oct 03, 2025

Show notes

Never a dull moment with the More or Less squad: Jessica questions whether Sora is just a novelty or the start of an AI-native social economy, arguing OpenAI needs its own device to escape current platform limits. Brit calls it “Vine meets MySpace,” highlighting its cameo mechanic as a creator tool that could outpace Meta’s AI video. Dave says Sora only needs to be entertaining and pitches OpenAI’s real graph play: embedding ChatGPT in group chats. Sam compares Sora to Truth Social, not Instagram, arguing power and narrative—not unit economics—drive the AI capex boom. The squad also touches on the “dead internet theory,” the importance of context over data, and the limits of LLM understanding, with side notes on Swifties and always-on AI wearables.Chapters:04:59 What is Sora? The Vine meets MySpace take

06:40 Early Sora product gaps: identity, friending, moderation

07:37 Creator utility vs novelty: will people care

09:51 Sora is Truth Social, not Instagram; Sam is Tom

11:20 Power vs ownership: modern mercantilism in AI14:03 Loose on copyright, tight on moderation—the 2x2

16:36 Production value is a false god

17:59 What is AI slop? Dead internet theory primer

20:16 Idealized ideas: vibe-coded pitches fool no one

22:18 Does entertainment alone create an economy

26:05 If you ran OpenAI, what would you build

28:39 The obvious social graph: ChatGPT in your group chats

30:53 Why OpenAI needs a device: voice multitasking plus identity UX

34:31 Context is king; models know nothing about you

36:19 Don’t sell your data; keep your context moat

38:02 Sutton vs LLMs: prediction without understanding

43:22 AI capex as narrative: Chinese housing and ’99 fiber analogiesWe’re also on ↓X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspodInstagram: https://instagram.com/moreorlessYouTube: https://youtu.be/tDsh5VdoTpcConnect with us here:1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

#118 Elon vs Altman: The $10B Capital War Reshaping Tech Sep 26, 2025

Show notes

No Morins this week—just Jess and Sam, trading Gossip Girl “dear listener” asides for a tour of tech’s new power map. From Meta’s in-store glasses push to Apple’s “Find My” doubling as Gen Z’s stealth social network, the real story is how distribution and lock-in shape the future. Sam frames “mercantilism 2.0,” where global trade routes of capital now run through Silicon Valley, Tel Aviv, and Riyadh, with figures like Elon Musk and Sam Altman acting as brokers of $10B+ flows.In true Sam fashion, the conversation highlights why LLMs aren’t true moats, pointing instead to the infrastructure layer (chips, power, data centers) and the UX layer (distribution, product polish). Nvidia’s securitized GPU deals illustrate how structured finance and alliances are reshaping competition.The takeaway: early-stage VC may finally be moving past hype, becoming sober—and therefore interesting—again.Chapters:02:02 – Meta Ray-Bans: friction as onboarding strategy05:31 – Mercantilism 2.0: Tech’s new trade routes07:56 – Elon’s real genius: moving $10B+ into frontier tech09:27 – Sam Altman as mega-capital trade-route broker12:40 – Starlink V3 and the network-layer power shift16:08 – Could Elon own planetary communications?18:35 – Find My = stealth social network21:04 – Strategy assets over DCF: power, data centers, chips23:41 – LLMs aren’t the moat; moats shift lower/higher27:44 – AI’s expense revives structured finance30:56 – Nvidia as the East India Company of compute33:50 – Will a handful of players control all the assets?39:57 – Early-stage VC is sober (and exciting) again43:05 – TikTok’s heat moved to AI: the attention shiftWe’re also on ↓X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspodInstagram: https://instagram.com/moreorlessSpotify: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/moreorlesspodConnect with us here:1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

#117 TikTok’s New Owner and Hiring a US CEO? Sep 19, 2025

Show notes

The More or Less team go deep on the rumored TikTok deal: licensing the algorithm vs. owning influence, who actually controls the For You page, and why data localization misses the point. We debate A16Z’s evolving role, Sequoia’s must-have-access imperative, and what a “TikTok US CEO” would really do.

Chapters:

00:48 - Intro + Ty Haney’s crypto-invisible loyalty rails

02:38 - “Do the weather” for Silicon Valley

05:04 - Alcatraz as brand strategy (and why)

11:22 - TikTok deal setup: ownership shuffle vs. real control

20:05 - What does a TikTok US CEO actually do? “Shell upon shell”

22:40 - “I want a human to pick my feed” — the curation comeback

24:21 - Slow’s Etiquette School: leveling the playing field

37:31 - Meta’s new glasses: HUD, wristband typing, live captions

44:33 - LLMs as the new youth battleground; customizing AI personalities

48:45 - Mid-cap IPOs, rate cuts, and why “number didn’t go up”

53:14 - The case for exclusive, hyper-local print (and price it high)

We’re also on ↓X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspodInstagram: https://instagram.com/moreorlessYouTube: https://youtu.be/P3Gzl2ZDXWw

Connect with us here:1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

#116 iPhone Air or Pro? Apple Ignores AI and Wins? Sep 12, 2025

Show notes

Apple ships hardware while everyone else ships AI press releases. The MOL quad debates whether Apple’s “ignore the hype” strategy wins, why YC is full of “made-to-chart” AI startups, what unique conviction really means for investors, and how meme warfare is becoming the new GTM.

Chapters:

01:02 – “Ozempic iPhone” and why “thin” might be back

10:06 – Market reaction: “Not enough AI,” money flows to Oracle

16:49 – YC protest: is relevance measured by outrage?

25:47 – Creator-led startups as an investing edge

26:49 – Khosla: bargain hunting is a poor AI bet

37:20 – Why money feels unlimited again (FOMO returns)

40:29 – Quiet shakeout: sub-$100M seed funds at risk

42:05 – Crypto policy clarity as 2025 macro driver

50:11 – Meme warfare: the next GTM playbook

We’re also on ↓

X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspod

Instagram: https://instagram.com/moreorless

YouTube: https://youtu.be/xzlAjHPZtW4

Connect with us here:

1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin

2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin

3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin

4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

#115 Anthropic at $170B: Should Unicorns Be Forced to IPO? Sep 05, 2025

Show notes

Another busy week in tech and your favorite quad are back! We go over: Google’s antitrust “win,” AI M&A mania, Anthropic’s stay-private debate, why lawyers out-earn bankers now, and the barbell reality of internet businesses. We also unpack creator vs algorithm dynamics, the rise of Ozempic, and Sam’s wild “AI petty-lawsuit bot” idea.

Chapters:02:07 – OpenAI’s $300k copywriting hire → AI not there yet

09:03 – AI M&A deals are small relative to hype

10:55 – Lawyers now out-earning bankers

12:40 – Google’s antitrust “loss” turned into a win

17:31 – Government says “AI will handle capitalism”

22:02 – Debate: force unicorns public at $100B+

40:15 – Creators must transcend algorithms, not rely on feeds

45:07 – Only ~20M Americans really buy things — own that niche

56:07 – AI petty-lawsuit bots as the next “big market”

57:22 – AI is just compute wars, zero net value

We’re also on ↓

X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspod

Instagram: https://instagram.com/moreorless

YouTube: https://youtu.be/W1HVKJZg7qo

Connect with us here:1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

#114 Seed Rounds at $2B? The Dangers of AI Hype in VC With Tony Conrad Aug 29, 2025

Show notes

In this episode of More or Less, Brit Morin and Dave Morin sit down with legendary VC Tony Conrad (True Ventures) for a candid conversation on the state of venture capital, the real impact of AI, the death of social media, and why non-attribution and EQ matter more than ever.Chapters:

01:30 – The Power (and Rarity) of Non-Attribution in Venture

04:00 – Building Culture After the Dot-Com Crash

06:00 – Why We Don’t Do This for the Money

08:30 – EQ vs IQ: The Human Side of Venture Capital

11:00 – The Wildfire Story: When VCs Show Up as Humans

16:50 – The Best GPs & Firms: Inspiration from Legacy and Newcomers

22:30 – Space Tech Is Real Venture Capital (Not Just AI)

28:10 – Venture Is a Contact Sport: Lessons from Ron Conway

30:40 – AI Hype: Is There Any Money Left for Startups?

40:00 – Manipulation, Social Media, and the Rise of AEO

49:30 – Building Brands in the Age of AI (and Why We Paused Consumer)

55:00 – The Dangers of AI Hype and Overfunding

57:00 – Why Contrarian Investing Can Wait—Focus on AI Now

1:04:00 – Pop Culture Corner: Taylor Swift, Branding, and First Concerts

We’re also on ↓X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspodInstagram: https://instagram.com/moreorlessSpotify: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/moreorlesspodConnect with us here:1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

#113 GPT-5 Disappoints: The End of the AI Gold Rush? Aug 22, 2025

Show notes

This week on More or Less, the crew dives into the shifting narratives around AI (Finally everyone is getting on Sam's wavelength), the reality of LLM business models, and why infrastructure may not be the gold rush everyone thinks. We debate the hype cycles, the authenticity crisis in startup pitches, and the pitfalls of meme coins in the creator economy. Plus, is Burning Man over, and what can Taylor Swift teach us about brand-building in the internet age? As always, join Jessica Lessin, Dave Morin, Brit Morin, and Sam Lessin for an unfiltered, insider take on what’s really happening in Silicon Valley.Chapters:0:40 – Intro and Silicon Valley Homecomings6:40 – AI, SaaS, and the Changing Narrative12:10 – The AI Moment: GPT-5 and the Plateau14:40 – AI Slop and the Devaluation of Content19:40 – OpenAI: From Hype to Sober Reality21:40 – The Problem with Narrative-Driven Startups24:40 – Marketing vs. Product: Who Really Wins?26:40 – Lying, Manifesting, and Silicon Valley Ethics30:40 – The Tower of Babel: Founders vs. VCs vs. AI36:40 – Burning Man: Has It Peaked?39:40 – Polyamory, Netflix Tropes, and the End of Media Originality43:40 – Meme Coins, Crowdfunding, and Creator Economy Pitfalls54:40 – Taylor Swift, Internet Fame, and Brand Lessons for StartupsWe’re also on ↓X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspodInstagram: https://instagram.com/moreorlessSpotify: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/moreorlesspodConnect with us here:1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

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