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    Religion & Spirituality

    Listen, Learn & Love Hosted by Richard Ostler

    Welcome to our podcast!

    My name is Richard H. Ostler and I am a native of Salt Lake City, small business owner, married father of six with several grandchildren. I believe in and am deeply committed to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and want it to work for a wider group.
    I am the author of three books:

    “Listen Learn and Love: Embracing LGBTQ Latter-day Saints” published in 2020 available at Amazon (amazon.com/dp/1462135773)

    “Listen Learn and Love: Improving Latter-day Saint Culture” published in 2022. The book explores who we can do better to help all Latter-day Saints feel more welcome, needed and a feeling of belonging in our congregations. Available at Amazon (amazon.com/dp/1462139566)

    “Listen Learn and Love: Building the Good Ship Zion” released in Sept 2023. The book explores additional topics to help all Latter-day Saint feel welcome and needed on the Good Ship Zion. Available at Amazon (amazon.com/dp/1462145280)

    The purpose of all three books is to help us better create Zion by helping more feel welcome, a sense of belonging, and needed in our congregations.

    Proceed from the books go the Stockton Power Memorial Scholarship (www.standingforstockton.com) in honor of Stockton Powers a gay Latter-day Saint teenager who died of suicide in 2016. Everything I do is a self-funded labor of love ❤️

    I am the author of two Ensign articles:

    ‘How the Savior’s Healing Power Applies to Repenting from Sexual Sin’ (August 2020/YSA Digital Only) www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2020/08/young-adults/how-the-saviors-healing-power-applies-to-repenting-from-sexual-sin

    ‘7 Tips for Overcoming Pornography Use’ (October, page 72) www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2020/10/young-adults/7-tips-for-overcoming-pornography-use.

    This podcast is designed to discuss some more complicated issues in our church to help all of us better “listen, learn and love” so we can minister in a more effective way to all of our Heavenly Parents’ children.

    Podcasts are indexed by category at listenlearnandlove.org/podcasts

    Thank you for joining us. You can’t donate to this podcast. There are no sponsors. But you can leave a review/rate the podcast on the platform you are listening and/or leave a review at Deseret Book/Amazon on my books.

    With love, Richard ‘Papa’ Ostler ❤

    Twitter: twitter.com/Papa_Ostler
    IG: www.instagram.com/papa_ostler
    Facebook: facebook.com/richard.ostler.5
    Substack: https://substack.com/@papaostler
    E-mail: richard@ostlergroup.com

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    Copyright: © All rights reserved

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    Latest Episodes:
    Episode 716: Seth Larson, Age 25, Gay Latter-day Saint Nov 13, 2023
    Show notes

    My friend Seth Larson (BYU grad, Bolivia RM, active Latter-day Saint) joins us to bravely share his story. Seth talks about trying to date women in hopes of making the typical path work in the Church and his desire to have a family and fully participate in the Church. Seth talks about feeling suicidal and “sub-par” because of being gay and not being able to make that path work—and shares honest journal entrees with his feelings. Seth talks about being open with his parents and therapist leading to his decision to date men. Seth talks about going slow, being intentional, and involving family/friends/his Bishop in the journey. Seth talks about feeling (for the first time) warm, safe, and secure. Seth talks about how his hope increased and anxiety decreased as he opened his heart/mind to this path. Seth talks about how church and the temple became triggering for him and what his Bishop did to validate these feelings and minister to him. Seth talks about why he is currently in the Church—but not sure of his long-term future. Seth talks about the character of God and Jesus—and how Christ is not “waiting for us to turn around” before helping us. Thank you, Seth, for your courage to share your story in hopes of helping others. I learned so much from you. I encourage allies to listen to this podcast and then consider what we can do in our circle of influence to better support queer Latter-day Saints. And I encourage queer Latter-day Saints to listen to Seth’s story to gain insights and principles to write your story with Christ. You are a good man, Seth. You have blessed many lives with your many gifts—something I believe will continue your entire life. This world is a better place with you (and all my queer friends) part of it. Links: Richard Ostler books/bio/etc: www.papaostler.com Facebook Group to support LGBTQ Latter-day Saints: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143

    Episode 715: Meka Reed, Black LDS Convert, Suicide Survivor, New Book Nov 10, 2023
    Show notes

    My friend Meka Reed (baptized with her husband in October 2020, Lives in Ohio) joins us to talk about her conversation story and her new book called “My Dot Matters: Rediscovering Faith by Realizing Self-Worth”. Meka starts with her life being defined by suicidal ideation and being in the psych ward—and how they all changed when she read the Book of Mormon for the first time. That led to her attending church and getting baptized (and married) on the same day on October 10, 2020. Meka talks about how she still has mental health challenges—but suicide ideation has ended as the Gospel of Jesus Christ has provided healing, hope and purpose. Meka then talks about the spiritual impressions to write and book and the process to get it published. This is a powerful book about finding worth and meaning—and how that happened for Meka in her conversation to the Church. Thank you Meka for being on the podcast. I was so moved hearing your story. You are brave and strong—and helping many others find hope and purpose! Links: Meka’s New Book: https://mydotmatters.com/

    Episode 714: Drew Young, LDS Author “Wonderful Counselor” Nov 06, 2023
    Show notes

    My friend Drew Young (married father of two, author, certified life coach) joins us to talk about his powerful new book called “Wonderful Counselor: A God Who Will Help Us Through Our Darkest Times”. Drew talks about how his own life experiences (his molding years) have helped him understand the limitless role of Christ in our lives to be our “Counselor” to “take our hand and lead us.” Drew talks about how Jesus wants us to be seen, heard, healed, and understood. I was so moved listening to Drew share insights about Jesus and his power/desire to help us. The book has short chapters (twenty-one), using Drew’s own experiences, to help us such as “Jesus Counsels Those Who Feel Crushed”, “Jesus Counsels Those Who Need a Miracle”, and “Jesus Counsels Those who Feel It’s Too Late.” If you want to better understand Jesus and his power to heal, bring peace and hope, I encourage you to check out Drew’s latest book. Thank you Drew for being on the podcast. You are a good man doing much good in our world! Links: Drew’s Newest Book: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1462145019 Drew’s Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/mrdrewyoung1 Drew’s Instagram: @mrdrewbyoung Drew’s e-mail: youngbandrew@gmail.com

    Episode 713: Kevin Ahlstrom, Two Gay Brothers, Ally Nov 03, 2023
    Show notes

    My friend Kevin Ahlstrom (married father, mid-30’s, active LDS, attorney living in Southern California) joins us to talk about his journey to understand and love his two gay brothers Kyle and Keith. Kevin talks about his earlier years and learning to put aside past conclusions by listening to queer people and then be in a better position to understand, love and support. Kevin talks about seeing healthy, happy same-sex relationships—and how those relationships can thrive just like straight relationships. Kevin talks about the importance of helping queer people not feel shame for who they are, how this isn’t a disability or something that needs to be endured, and what we can do to better support our queer family members. Kevin talks about how our job is to love and not judge. Kevin also talks about his own faith crisis where he and his wife decided to leave the church over this issue—but then decided to stay. Kevin talks about ten ideas he received on what he can do in his circle of influence to support queer members as part of his decision to stay. Kevin also talks about honoring, loving, and supporting those who do step away from the Church. Kevin also talks authentically about why he doesn’t currently hold a temple recommend—but continues to participate/serve in his Ward which he loves and wants to be part of. This was one of the best podcasts we’ve done with a straight family member sharing how to love and support queer family members. It should also be a helpful podcast for LGBTQ members to hear an ally’s voice of love, understanding and support. It is also an excellent podcast for those in a faith crisis over this issue but want to find a way to stay in the Church. Thank you, Kevin, for being on the podcast and being so honest with your thoughts on this tender topic and your relationship with the Church. I was so moved listening to you. Your story will help so many. Links: Kevin’s Facebook post from 2021: www.facebook.com/kevin.ahlstrom.1/posts/pfbid0WJfasUtS3M6sdaa6K4MiLkzQ9qHE7UK5BquQWgLBAEcoJ1Gyy8X3fT8zGYPL58BWl Elder Daines Oct 2023 Conference talk: www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2023/10/13daines?lang=eng Char Ahlstrom (Kevin’s mom) podcast from 2022: soundcloud.com/user-818501778/episode-581-char-ahlstrom-lds-mother-of-6-two-gay-sons Richard Ostler books/bio/etc: www.papaostler.com Facebook Group to support LGBTQ Latter-day Saints: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143

    Episode 712: Marcus Bowers, Single Latter-day Saint, mid 40s, Bishopric Member Oct 31, 2023
    Show notes

    My friend Marcus Bowers (BYU grad, two master’s degrees, never married/straight, early release missionary, once suicidal, Iraq veteran) joins us to bravely share his story. Marcus starts with coming home from his mission after two weeks (because of his emotional health) and feeling his path was not to return to full time missionary service and how we can better support early release missionaries. Marcus then talks about getting on with his life (education, military, and his profession) and his journey with mental health issues which culminated in suicidal ideation leading to a stay in a psychiatric ward. Marcus talks about the importance of normalizing mental health struggles, so people feel safe opening up and getting help. Marcus shares what he’d say to his younger self and others feeling suicidal. Marcus then talks about why he stays in the church and resources he used to navigate his own faith crises. Marcus talks about his service in his mid-singles ward and how we can “break the mold” to help all of God’s children feel welcome, needed, valued, and included. Marcus talks how he feels whole, not broken, while still being a work in progress — and not waiting to be married. Thank you, Marcus, for being on the podcast. You are so brave. You are a remarkable man doing much good in our church community and society. Your story helps others. Thank you for your courage to be on the podcast. Links: Marcus on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/wanderer.eternal Marcus on Instagram: @marcussmusings Marcus’ email: bowers.marcus@gmail.com Richard Ostler books/bio/etc: www.papaostler.com

    Episode 711: Madison Frederick, New Book Oct 28, 2023
    Show notes

    My friend Madison Frederick (in her early 70s) joins us to talk about her new and important book about narcissism. Madison talks about her story to identity being in a narcissistic relationship (father and former husband) and her journey to understand the controlling behavior and the negative impact on her and the relationship. In the book (which took 5 years to write) Madison also talks about learning to undue her behaviors such as enabling and co-dependency. She also talks about gaslighting and how this manipulation is not part of healthy relationship. I was so impressed with Madison’s courage and vulnerability to share her story with a deep desire to help others. I encourage everyone who wants to improve relationships and learn how “being whole and complete” comes from within, to check out Madison’s book. Thank you, Madison, for being on the podcast! Links: Madison’s Book: https://linktr.ee/madisonf1234 Website: www.madisonfrederick.com/ Email: mfrederick2244@aol.com Phone: 385-415-3403

    Episode 710: Rev. Dr. Fatimah Salleh Oct 25, 2023
    Show notes

    My friend Rev. Dr. Fatimah Salleh (PhD in Mass Communication, Master’s degree in Public Communication, Master of Divinity from Duke, Married Mother of Four, LDS Author, Grew Up LDS/RM) joins us to share insights about the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Fatimah (co-author of “The Book of Mormon for the Least of These” a three-volume series; and her new book “Love Memory: A Memoir & A Practice” edited by Marci McPhee) talks about her own story growing up to in a multi-ethnic/culture/religious family and her personal journey in the LDS Church and her “soft separation from the Church” leading to her current role as a Baptist Pastor. Fatimah, who is respectful of the Church, talks about God’s love for all God's children, seeing a social justice charge in our scriptures, and the need to bring those on the margins into full inclusion. Fatimah gives advice for younger people including “being the greatest explorer of your life” and how she, as a clergy member, has a responsibility to learn, grow, apologize, and “do no harm.” On a personal note, Dr Salleh gave a sermon (see show notes) in 2015 called “Theology From the Margins” that gave me the theological perspective and doctrinal foundation to become an ally for LGBTQ Latter-day Saints. It was transforming for me as she spoke about the Canaanite woman, not reading the scriptures with the lens of “who is in and who is out”, seeing and using privilege, and being an ally. Thank you, Rev. Dr. Fatimah Salleh, for being on the podcast and your life work to help people find the love of God, bring the human family together, heal each other, and find Jesus. You are a great human doing much good in our world. Links: The Book of Mormon For the Least of These/Volume 1: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1948218232 The Book of Mormon For the Least of These/Volume 2: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1948218585 The Book of Mormon For the Least of These/Volume 3: Available Q4 2023 Love Memory: A Memoir & A Practice: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CFDB372B 2015 Sunstone Speech: https://sunstone.org/2015-theology-from-the-margins-conference-keynote-speech-by-fatimah-salleh/

    Episode 709: Jacob Yates, Gay Latter-day Saint Oct 22, 2023
    Show notes

    My friend Jake Yates joins us to bravely share his story. Jake (mid 30’s, RM, father of two, recently divorced, in same-sex relationship, respectful of and believes in the Church) joins us to share his story. Jake starts with the early years (growing up in Sandy, Utah) realizing he was different. Those feelings continued through high school and his mission. Jake, to “prove” he wasn’t gay, was unkind to LGBTQ+ individuals so he wouldn’t be “discovered". Jake talks about returning home from his mission and getting married and then being called to church leadership assignments but feeling two-faced because of his sexual orientation—which led to suicidal ideation. That road continued for many years (including being saved from suicide by his then wife). Jake talks about personal revelation, journaling, scripture study, and his poor emotional health—leading him to come out to his wife (good experience) and then his Bishop (while serving as his counselor; also a good experience) and then his Stake President (also a good experience). These are deeply moving stories of being with someone in one of their most vulnerable moments. Jake talks about his path forward which led to eventually separating from his wife, how they are co-parenting their two sons, and his continued respect for his ex-wife (including his hope for her future). Jake talks about finding his “Knight in Shining Armor” and their healthy/strong relationship and staying connected to Heavenly Father, Jesus and gospel principles. In the closing segment Jake gives thoughtful advice for other LGBTQ+ Latter-day Saints. Jake isn’t trying to have others follow his path, but speaks to principles and perspectives to “write your own story” based on personal revelation, going slow, and being intentional. Thank you, Jake, for being on the podcast. You are brave to share your story. I’m glad you are alive and moving forward in your life. You are a good man and father. I hope your story helps us better understand and support LGBTQ+ Latter-day Saints and also helps LGBTQ+ Latter-day Saints in their path forward. Links: Jake Yates Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jake.yates.37 Jake’s e-mail: jacobryates@icloud.com Jake Yates Instagram: @jyate15 Richard Ostler books/bio/etc: www.papaostler.com Facebook Group to support LGBTQ Latter-day Saints: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143

    Episode 708: Brooke Booth, Mixed-Faith Marriages, Life Coach Oct 19, 2023
    Show notes

    My friend Brooke Booth (no longer participating LDS, husband is active LDS, married mother of four, RM, BYU Grad, Lawyer) joins us to talk about her work to help couples navigate being in a mixed-faith marriage. Brooke’s work is not to pull people out of the LDS church—but rather to use principles, practices, insights, and her own lived experiences to help marriages remain strong, healthy, supportive and thrive. I was deeply moved by Brooke and her work. I’m grateful for all the wonderful work/service she gave for many years in our Church—and her current work to support couples in mixed-faith marriages. If you are in a mixed-faith married, working to help others, or want to improve relationships, I encourage you to listen to Brooke’s podcast and connect with her work. I was so impressed with Brooke’s maturity, honoring/supporting everyone’s journey, and her work to strengthen relationships. Thank you, Brooke, for being on the podcast. You are a good soul. Links: Brooke’s website: BrookeBroothCoaching.com Brooke’s e-mail: mormoncouples.com@gmail.com Marriage on a Tight Rope FB Group: www.facebook.com/groups/marriageonatightrope Mormon Mixed Faith Marriage FB Group: www.facebook.com/groups/148132815874583 Richard Ostler Books (Chapter 4 of Book 3 discussed in the podcast): www.papaostler.com

    Episode 707: Tami Carson and Marshall Shearer, Utah Foster Care Oct 15, 2023
    Show notes

    My friends Tami Carson (married mother of 7, active LDS, employee at Utah Foster Care) and Marshall Shearer (married transgender man, foster parent, adopted 5 children) joins us to talk about Utah Foster Care and LGBTQ youth. Marshall starts with his story of being a transgender man and his journey to love and accept himself. Marshall then talks about the decision with his wife to become foster parents and eventually adopt 5 children—two are LGBTQ. Marshall talks about the principles of strong parenting which included the ability to nurture, care, stability, and open communication. We talk about how LGBTQ parents are just as effective parents as straight parents. Tami shares her story of parenting a LGBTQ child and how initial fear led to love and support including this line “after fear love is all that is left”. Tami talks about how she loves and supports her friend Marshall and his ability to be an effective employee at Utah Foster Care and a wonderful parent. This is a beautiful story inviting us (including people like me) to put aside past assumptions and be open to better understanding how LGBTQ people can and are successful parents, members of our community and all-around wonderful people. We conclude with a discussion about the need for and process of becoming foster parents. Thank you, Tami and Marshall, for your work to bring us together in unity to help meet our community need to provide safe and healthy home for children in foster care. Links: Utah Foster Care: www.utahfostercare.org Utah Foster Care LGBTQ Info: www.utahforstercare.org/lgbtq Richard Ostler books/bio/etc: www.papaostler.com Index of Podcasts: listenlearnandlove.org/podcasts Ministering to LGBTQ Latter-day Saints Support Group: www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143

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