In Black America

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Robert Townsend (Ep. 21, 2020) Apr 26, 2020

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This week on In Black America, producer and host John L. Hanson speaks with actor, film director/producer and writer Robert Townsend about his challenges and successes over three decades in the entertainment industry, including the groundbreaking film Hollywood Shuffle, the Making The Five Heartbeats documentary, and new television project American Soul. Intro Music [00:00:08] The In Black America theme music, an instrumental by Kyle Turner. Announcer [00:00:15] From the University of Texas at Austin. KUT Radio, this is In Black America. Robert Townsend [00:00:23] Well, you know, here’s the thing. I just gravitate to what I want to create. And sometimes people will send me a script or there’s an idea that I have. So when I think in terms of the Five Heartbeats, for example, I wanted to do a movie about five guys, total different guys, and how they become a family making music. And so that’s how that came about. Meteor Man I wanted to, you know, be the first African-American superhero, and I wanted it to be funny and I wanted to make it for kids. So Holiday Hard, which is a film that I directed, I think, you know, it’s a theme, you know, of nontraditional family. But I think any time, you know, I create stuff, even the parenthood that I just really wanted to help raise a generation of kids because I know they’re going to be sitting in front of the TV. So how do I give them, you know, basic lessons on morals and values? And that’s why I created that show. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:01:23] Robert Townsend, comedian, actor, film director, producer, writer and former cable network programing CEO. He has been referred to as the godfather of the independent film world with more than three decades in the entertainment industry. Many of us remember the memorable work he has produced. He is the genius behind Hollywood Shuffle, The Meteor Man and the Five Heartbeats. Townsend also created award winning programing for television. This include Partners in Crime for HBO, Townsend Television, for Fox Television and the WB network series The Parenthood. His most recent project for television is directing American Soul The Untold Story of Soul Train and the Man Behind Its Legacy, Don Cornelius. Townsend’s documentary, Making the Five Heartbeats was a nominee for outstanding documentary at the 50th NAACP Image Award. I’m John L. Hanson, Jr. and welcome to another edition of In Black America. On this week’s program, the legendary Robert Townsend. In Black America. Robert Townsend [00:02:31] I would say it has changed. You know, I mean, there’s a lot more images of people of color. There’s a lot of new voices that have emerged. So, you know, when I started, it was just basically me and Spike. And then, you know, Kenan started to make, you know, movies. And then John Singleton appeared. So, you know, now there’s a whole new crop of filmmakers that are, you know, aggressive and taking chances. And so it is a different Hollywood now. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:03:01] As a child growing up on Chicago’s West Side, Hollywood icon Robert Townsend has always been fascinated with the entertainment industry. Raised by a single mother with four siblings on welfare, he spent much of the afternoon time watching television. He began to practice acting out scenes and imitating famous characters. His first film break came as an extra in Cooley High. From there, he landed a role costarring opposite Denzel Washington in A Soldier’s Story, finding work for African-American actors hard to come by. He decided to step out on his own as an independent filmmaker. He wrote, directed, produced and starred in Hollywood Shuffle. The film was a satire depicting the trials and tribulations of African American actors in Tinseltown. The success of the movie made Hollywood take notice, and Thompson was on his way to bigger projects. Eddie Murphy was so impressed with Hollywood Shuffle, he asked him to direct Eddie Murphy Raw. Townsend has been the genius behind many of Hollywood’s favorite and best remembered hit series and movies. Recently, In Black America had an opportunity for the exclusive interview with Robert Townsend. Robert Townsend [00:04:16] I grew up this man. It was rough. You know, I lived in Cape Town. Um, and it was, you know, gangs on every corner. And, you know, I had to I couldn’t play outside because my mother was afraid that I was going to get recruited by one of the gangs. And so, um, you know, it was a rough time, but it was through that that I learned about theater and television and movies because I was just a little kid. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:04:42] What were some of the TV shows that you frequently watch while you were destined for the house? Robert Townsend [00:04:49] Uh, uh, I watched everything, you know, and as a kid, I watched everything. I mean, so you, you can. Hitchcock. Alfred Hitchcock. I watched The Guns of Wilson. It, uh, I love Lucy. Um, you name a TV show…Lassie. I watched everything. You know, I even watch, uh, PBS. I watched opera, French movies. I was the strange little kid, but I loved it all. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:05:13] So what was life like growing up in the house where you had three other siblings? Robert Townsend [00:05:19] Yeah, I, um. I am the second oldest. Uh, there’s my sister. My sister Beverly is the oldest, And then my brother Steve is under me, and then my sister. And. And so, you know, we lived in a little small house, you know, apartment, and, uh, you know, it was my mother. My mother had remarried then and my stepfather, Roosevelt, And basically the bathroom was my room. And so in the bathroom is where I, I would, you know, go into my fantasy world creating my characters and the. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:05:50] Good acoustics in there. Robert Townsend [00:05:52] Exactly. So that’s kind of where it started for me doing, um, you know, doing impressions and characters and stuff when I was, when I was like nine, nine, ten. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:06:02] What was it about that Shakespearean play when you were in high school that, that gave you the impetus that maybe this is something I want to do for a living? Robert Townsend [00:06:12] Well, what it was was that it was really in grammar school. I was in fifth grade and there was a teacher, his name was James Reed, and he wanted kids in the hood to learn about Shakespeare. And so he had us read like three pages of, um, you know, a scene from Shakespeare. And I just remember it was really, really hard. And, you know, this is how I really started because, uh, you know, I was a kid in the hood, and so I wanted to get an A on the paper and, you know, just to read it. And, you know, it was, it looked so hard to me. So I went to the library and I stole all the Shakespeare records cause I’m a little, little kid. And I go, I’m going to listen to them and see if I can understand it better. And when I listen to them on our stereo, you know, in the house, uh, I kind of understood it. And so when we had to read, you know, a scene from Oedipus Rex in class. Mm, uh, I could really, you know, do it like the Royal Shakespeare Company. And so as I read the scene, the class went crazy, but the teacher was like, you have a gift. And that’s when it started for me. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:07:21] When did you develop your standup comedy? Robert Townsend [00:07:24] You know what? Uh, I always was a fan of, you know. Meetings that I saw on The Ed Sullivan Show. And because, you know, I like making people laugh. And I’ve always, you know, thought really silly and funny. I don’t know. I don’t know when the very first time there was a club in Chicago called Punch Canellos and Punch in Laws was in downtown Chicago. And, uh, I remember that was the first time I performed stand up. And I had a routine where I would, you know, turn around in a circle and I would do these different characters. And I called it, you know, something like I of Bill, you know, change the channel, and then I could do all these different voices. And that was my first routine. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:08:07] What gave you the courage to move to New York? Robert Townsend [00:08:11] Well, it wasn’t so much the courage. There was a teacher. I was going to school at Illinois State University in Normal Bloomington, and I was there and I was a freshman. And I was fascinated with theater in New York. And there was a teacher that was there from New York. And I would ask about, you know, New York. And I was like, how do the actors what is Broadway like? How do they act? And she said, Stop asking me about New York, because you don’t have what it takes to make it in New York. You don’t have what it takes to make it in this business. And she shut me down and I I’d call my mother because it was devastating to me. And I called my mother and I said, you know what? I am going to transfer to New York to a school in New York. I got to see if I’m going if I can make it, if I can do what’s in my heart. And, uh, I transferred there was a student exchange program, and I transferred to a college. I couldn’t get into New York, but I got to college 20 minutes from New York. William Paterson College in Paterson, New Jersey. And I transferred. And that’s how I got to New York because of that teacher. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:09:19] And what did you major in? Robert Townsend [00:09:22] Theater. I mean, mass communications and theater. So I did it all, you know, I was a theater minor and radio and TV communications was my major. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:09:32] And how long did you stay in New York before you decided to move where you are now in Los Angeles? Robert Townsend [00:09:37] Well, I lived in New York for about six, seven years. And, uh, I was, uh, doing stand up. I had met a young comedian online, you know, uh, uh, I a lining up to get, you know, to an audition for the Improv. And that was Keenen Ivory Wayans. Mm hmm. And so Keenan and I, you know, were the only brothers on on standing outside waiting to audition, and we became like, you know, really good friends. And Keenan moved to L.A. first. Keenan moved to L.A. first, and then after Keenan moved to L.A., then that’s when I, you know, uh, Keenan said, Hey, Rob, I’ll, I, I’ll fly back to, um, I’ll fly back to New York and we can drive your stuff across country. You got to come to L.A. And that’s how I got to L.A.. Kind of drove me across the country. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:10:31] Did you ever run across Bernie Mac while you were in Chicago? Did you all the same club? Robert Townsend [00:10:36] No. No, I never because I had left by that point. And I was just doing movies and television. And, uh, when I met Bernie, I was directing BAPS and, uh, um, there was a little small part in BAPS, and everybody was like this. This guy to Chicago, you you need to meet him. Bernie Mac. And then, uh, Bernie did the, you know, the cameo in, uh, in BAPS for me, you know, But I didn’t know him, you know? I just knew. He’s a funny man. Oh, my God. But I would see him at clubs, and he goes, Uh, you know, I’m from Chicago. Boy, you know, I’m from Chicago. You know, we we Chicago boys, we got stick together, you know, and I was just like, man, But he was. He was a beautiful brother. Beautiful brother. [00:11:20] If you’re just joining us, I’m John L. Hanson Jr. and you’re listening to In Black America from Coogee radio. And we’re speaking with Robert Townsend, actor, comedian, film director, former CEO of network writer and one of my favorite TV programs that I watched constantly now the Parenthood. Mr. Townsend, tell us about that cameo role in Cooley High. Robert Townsend [00:11:45] You know, when I was a young actor in Chicago, I was doing theater at an X Bag. It was called X Bag Experimental Black Actors Guild. And, um, the director, uh, my first director there, Payment RAIMI He was also working on a movie, this new movie coming to Chicago, doing extras and helping out behind the scenes. It was called Cooley High and so the director, Michael Schultz, came to see me in the play at X Bag. And then he goes, Oh, you’re going to have an audition. And so I went in and auditioned. I had like a little small part, but I had never done a movie before. And, uh, that movie changed my life because, uh. I had two lines in the movie, but then the movie became a classic. When I saw it, I said, I want to make movies like that. That’s those are the kind of movies I want to make and that kind of change. I remember watching it, I think it was downtown at the Woods Theater was the premiere or something, and I just remember seeing that movie and it just changed me because back then we had, you know, Black exploitation movies, right? You know, but they were just my hero. So I can’t even say exploitation. They were it was the first time we had, you know, Black men and women kicking butt and taking names and falling in love and getting a girl. And, you know, so they were my heroes. So I don’t when people say Black exploitation, you know, but that was a certain that was a certain genre. But then Cooley High came out and it was like my childhood. It was like me and my boys hanging out. So that that was how it began. But that audition with Michael Schultz. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:13:25] What was it like that first day on set? You know, you dream about being in a movie, but actually showing up and knowing I’m going to be in a movie no matter how small the part is. Robert Townsend [00:13:38] Well, you know, you’re in all you know, I mean, I was just like, oh, my God. And I had, you know, seen Lawrence Hill and Jacobs and I knew Glynn Turman and their work. And so I was just like, Oh, my God, I’m getting to work with New York, you know, you know, the New York the A-list of New York, you know, Black actors. So I was just in heaven. And then, you know, I didn’t know Michael Schultz, you know, but the way he talked to actors, he just made everybody feel really comfortable. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:14:11] Is your homeboy. Robert Townsend [00:14:12] Yeah. Yeah. He was just really cool. And it was just, you know, and we we just had the best time. And I just remember, like, wow, you know, this is what movies are like. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:14:23] Another memorable role playing Corporal Ellis in A Soldier’s Story. Robert Townsend [00:14:27] Oh, man, that was a ball, because that was the first time I work with Denzel. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:14:33] Did you know you’re going to blow up like he has? Robert Townsend [00:14:36] Oh, my God. I mean, he’s always been really serious about his craft, so. No, I was. I’m not surprised. I’m not surprised at all. I mean, you know, back then, you know, because he had done the the the show, the theater production of A Soldier’s Play. And I was in L.A., and I remember loving the show. But then, you know, when they said, hey, they’re going to make a movie, you know, they always go after the biggest names in Hollywood. And so Norman Jewison, who directed it, he was kind of like, you know what? I’m going to go with new faces. I’m not going to go with the traditional route. And then Reuben Cannon was casting it, and I went in for the part of Corporal Ellis, and I got it. And it was me, Denzel, David Alan Grier, Howard Rollins, Adolph Caesar. And we just had a ball. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:15:23] Now, Caesar is not with any longer, but the rest of them are. Do you still get a chance to come across each other from time to time? Robert Townsend [00:15:30] Well, you know, Howard Rollins passed away as well. Yes. You know, so I mean, but everybody’s always you know, everybody’s busy. So we see each other every now and then, like at an awards show or something. But, you know, people are always traveling. And so if you if you’re in the same city and you run into each other, we do still see each other. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:15:49] Why was it important for you to make Hollywood Shuffle? Robert Townsend [00:15:53] Well, the Hollywood shuffle came at a time when the images of people of color were really negative. Mm…

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Dr. Laura W. Cheever (Ep. 20, 2020) Apr 19, 2020

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On this week’s In Black America program, producer and host John L. Hanson, Jr. speaks with Laura W. Cheever, MD., Associate Administrator for the HIV/AIDS Bureau of the Health Resources and Services Administration, about the need to emphasize awareness of and access to HIV/AIDS treatment services for African Americans.

The 15th Annual Fritz Pollard Awards (Ep. 19, 2020) Apr 12, 2020

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This week on In Black America, producer and host John L. Hanson, Jr. presents highlights of the 15th Annual Johnnie L. Cochran, Jr. Salute to Excellence Awards held during Super Bowl LIV week, featuring speakers Roger Goodell, Troy Vincent, and Fritz Pollard Trophy winner Trey Smith.

HBCUs and Football (Ep. 18, 2020) Apr 06, 2020

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This week on In Black America, producer and host John L. Hanson, Jr. presents a discussion on the legacy and impact of Black college football and its contributions to the NFL moderated by Dr. Derrick E. White and featuring researcher Makiba Foster, NFL executive Arthur McAfee, and former HBCU alumni and NFL players Larry Little and De’Lance Turner.

Dr. Derrick E. White (Ep. 17, 2020) Mar 29, 2020

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This week on In Black America, producer and host John L. Hanson, Jr. presents a discussion of the rich history of Black college football and its contributions to the National Football League with Dr. Derrick E. White, Associate Professor of History and African American and Africana Studies at the University of Kentucky.

Sean Durant and Regina A. Mason (Ep. 16, 2020) Mar 22, 2020

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This week on In Black America, producer and host John L. Hanson, Jr. concludes his conversation with Sean Durant, producer and director of Gina’s Journey: The Search for William Grimes, and Regina A. Mason, author of The Life of William Grimes, The Runaway Slave. [00:00:15] From the University of Texas at Austin, KUT Radio. This is In Black America. Virginia Mason [00:00:23] The year was 2000 when my mother and I took a trip back to King George County, Virginia, where William Grimes was born, and the estate. Eagle’s Nest still stands. And that was the home of Benjamin Grimes. And I wanted to I in fact, I was invited to go back and to tour the grounds with the present day owner who had no affiliation with the family. By the way, Eagle’s Nest remained in the Grimes and Fitzhugh family for 300 years before it sold in 1974, the year I began high school. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:01:05] Virginia Mason, International speaker, executive producer and author of Life of William Grimes The Runaway Slave, published by Oxford University Press. The Life of William Grimes. The Runaway Slave is the first fugitive slave narrative in American history because Grimes wrote and published this narrative on his own without deference to white energy, his publisher or sponsors. His life in intimacy, candor and no holds barred realism unparalleled in the famous antebellum slave narratives during that time. Mason In the same vein as the late Alex Haley and her stories about her great great great grandfather, William Grimes, following clues on my aunt Katherine she and bonked on a 15 year journey. She would later partner with William Andrews to publish a new edition of his pioneering work in 2017, a documentaries made combining two stories. Mason’s journey to discover and trace the steps of our ancestor and Grimes story as a slave and his thirst for freedom. I’m Daniel Henderson, Jr. And welcome to another edition of In Black America. On this week’s program, Gina’s Journey The Search for William Grimes, But Sean Durant and Regina Mason, Part two. In Black America. Virginia Mason [00:02:25] Once I started digging into this story and realizing that no other scholars had really looked at it. In fact, when I went looking for any body of research that was done on William Grimes, it was so inaccurate. And there were historians who just took a liberty to to write about this man, having not done any research whatsoever. And then I came across the work of Dr. William Andrews, a scholar from you, and C, University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill. Right. This extraordinary expert on early African American autobiography. I came across his book to tell a free story, and he studies the slave narratives. And included in his body of work, which is sort of like the Scholars Bible today. He wrote about William Grimes. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:03:26] Regina E. Mason is a remarkable woman. She spent 15 years of her life researching the life of a great, great, great grandfather, William Grimes. With nothing to go on but the connection to the Underground Railroad. She spent countless hours in libraries, reading books, looking at microfilm and census records. Grimes was ten years old when he was all the way from the eyes of a grieving mother to a far off plantation who grew up friendless and motherless with apparently no surrogate slave, family or loved ones to embrace him. No one even to look after him. Grimes was the first person to go through slavery in the South and write about it. This was the first time Southern slavery exposed from the perspective of one who had lived it. And he was the first author to write about the harsh realities of the North, despite the narrative of his being a Freedomland. Recently In Black America, I spoke with Sean Durant, the producer of Gina’s Journey, the Search for William Grimes and Regina mason. On today’s program, we conclude our conversation. Speaker 4 [00:04:31] And so my co-producer contacted his agent, his agency, and they sent it over. And to my astonishment, he came back and was like, I’ll do it. And it was more than a reasonable rate and which also made a saint. And the next thing you know, I was out in in Hollywood, in Melrose, actually, at his recording studio and directing Keith David in the booth, which was mind blowing, to say the least. And he was astonished to see, you know, me and, you know, given my age and what I’d done and being an African-American male to be directing this film. So that really made him happy when he saw that he just was was really blown away with it. But he blessed the project, came in. He did the most amazing work on it, and it really just elevated Gina’s story and Grimes story to a whole new level. So we will be entirely thankful to him for that. And every once in a while I do have talks with him still, and he’s just a really good person. And I think he’s a studier of history. He’s very big in the voiceover world. He’s an Emmy Award winning voice actor who’s done a ton of Ken Burns documentaries, right? So he was really into it and this is his thing. So I think he really enjoyed working on this project and we were better for it. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:05:50] Yeah, I. Matt Mason Honestly, this was labor intense. This is way before Google and everything else. So what gave you that consistent drive to work wanting to complete this project? Virginia Mason [00:06:05] William Grimes himself, You know, when you read his narrative, all that he endured in life, the cruelty, the abuse, right at every turn, he was reminded that he was nothing, but he never bought into the status quo. In fact, he defied the status quo at every turn. Just the fact that he had the notion that he was capable of writing his own story without any assistance from white people speaks to who he was and how self-assured he was. So his example of perseverance and endurance gave me the will to to just carry on and see this this project to to the end. And I’m speaking of the book project. And I do have to say this. Once I started digging into this story and realizing that no other scholars had really looked at it. In fact, when I went looking for any body of research that was done on William Grimes, it was so inaccurate. And there were his. Arias, who just took a liberty to to write about this man having not done any research whatsoever. And then I came across the work of Dr. William Andrews, scholar from you and see you and see Chapel Hill. University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill. Right. This extraordinary expert on early African American autobiography. I came across his book to tell a free story. And he studies the slave narratives. And included in his body of work, which is sort of like the scholar’s Bible today. He wrote about William Grimes. Not a whole lot more than I had found those about four pages of work. And I needed to make sense of that genre of literature that I really knew nothing about. So I reached out to him and he at the time was the only living scholar who that who I could talk to. And we sort of built a relationship. Every now and then I would send him information about what I found of William Grimes. And he one day wrote me back and he said, Look, the work you’ve done has to be preserved in some fashion or another. And then he broached the idea of partnering to do a book, because I knew that Bill knew that I, I wanted to bring this story to light this new scholarship that had never been done before on William Grimes. And he definitely was the right person because obviously he had studied Grimes. He had written about Grimes. And there was really no one else that I could associate myself with. And he was the man when it came to early African-American autobiography. And so we partnered and we developed what we call or what has been the authoritative edition of The Life of William Grimes, the Runaway Slave. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:09:41] What was it like your feelings when you you read his narrative and then understood that your great great grandfather was just not an ordinary slave? Virginia Mason [00:09:56] Well, I want to say this. William Grimes was an ordinary man who did an extraordinary thing. I want people to realize we may not have those narratives out there. We may not be able to to we can may be able to find our ancestor who had been enslaved on a in a plantation records or slave inventories. And all you see are names. Sadly, those voices, we will never know their voice or their humanity because the story doesn’t exist, Right? So to find this first person account of slavery and by the way, William Grimes is the first person of color to go through slavery in the South and write about it. So for the first time, we got to hear about Southern slavery from the perspective of the slave and not from the slave owner himself. So it’s a different kind of story and it’s more authentic and true in terms of the experience. So to recover this and then associate myself to this narrative, I realize that all of his virtues are inside of me. So when you say William Grimes was not the ordinary slave, he definitely speaks for those who didn’t have a voice. And I believe that none of the slaves bought into the enslaved narrative that was supposed to be their destination and ultimately was their destination. Or, yes, I believe that they all had that will to be free and and in their own circumstances, they asserted whatever power they had in a rebellious way. And so to know, though, that William Grimes was able to make it out of slavery and to tell his story is huge. It is. It’s just incredibly empowering and. I realized again that his virtues exist in me, and he was my example every step of the way. When I wanted to give up, when I was faced with all kinds of closed doors, I realized that he faced those same issues and he was told no. Over and over again. But he found a way to get it done. And so I, I it brings me great pride that this enslaved man who never bought into the status quo live within me. And so, you know, Shawn and I talk about this all the time because to get this film done was also it was a huge challenge. Money was always an issue. And we found ways and I can understand how he, you know, had to fill in pieces and so forth to get the project done. But we always had William Grimes at our back, and he was always the the example that we aimed for because we knew if he was capable of not only getting writing in his book, but finding a way to to to sell his book and to register with the state of Connecticut, we realized that it was within us to get our projects done as well. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:13:45] Whatever you all were going through really wasn’t that difficult. Virginia Mason [00:13:49] Absolutely. Speaker 4 [00:13:50] Absolutely. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:13:51] What do you want readers and just ask you first the same question and also you, Mr. Duran. What do you want readers to come away from the book and also the movie? Speaker 4 [00:14:02] Well, I would say, you know, in Jena can speak even deeper on her story in the movie and the book. But for me, particularly with the movie, you know, I want them to to get from the movie, to go get the book to read about the details of William Grimes’s life and his story, and to read about Jena’s story, which is in the afterword of the book. So really, the movie is just the beginning of their journey of understanding this journey. So what I want them to get out of the movie is to go see the movie and understand that we all have a story. We all can tell our story, whether it be from writing a book, doing a movie, passing it down to your children as she passed it down to her daughters. But just getting out there and discover now we have, you know, Ancestry.com and T3 in me, but I want them to watch the movie and understand that history is important. Our stories are important. And in finding the content that’s meaningful out there and spreading it, we worked long and hard and Jena put in a lot of time to create and get this book done. And then she, you know, unselfishly went on another ten years to make the film and to get it out to a wide audience. We want people to find it. Go to our Web site at Gina’s journey dot com, and then go to Amazon Prime and watch the movie and, you know, obviously tell a thousand of their best friends to watch it because we really think that is an important story. We think that, you know, William Grimes is an important historical figure that needs to be in the history books. I think it’s important because I want I always wanted to make film with strong female leads. I got that from James Cameron, who idolize as a director and a producer. And I think Regina mason is that. And I think that it’s important for people to see that we can not only make content about African-American people or just Americans in American history, but for this new movement with women that they can be strong, they can stand up, they can get their own history, they can do the things that everybody else in men can do, and they can share those stories with their children and in particularly their daughters. We want people to watch the film and realize they can make a movie about or go further than that. They can actually become president of the United States, you know, after Michelle does or her daughter. So, you know, that’s what I want people to get out of the film, that there is no limitations. Now, the old rules of Hollywood, you can’t make a film without us are gone. The streaming services have changed all of that. Anybody We made this film from script to screen to stream and and we did it all on our own, financed by us. My wife was the executive producer, another strong, powerful Black women along with Regina mason, to show that we can take control of our stories and we can can can guide other people to and and get them out there. So I’m hoping that people will have, you know, a good response to the film. It encouraged them to go learn about history, learn about their past, whether it’s through DNA or other methods, but more importantly. Go out and tell your own story. Tell your own story. So please go watch Gina’s journey. The search for William Grimes on Amazon Prime and definitely spread the word. Virginia Mason [00:17:34] Mason Yes, I would like the audience or people to take away from this film a couple things. First of all and foremost, and it’s by William Grimes’s example is to give yourself permission, and that is now a virtue I live by. MM If we sat around and waited for the scholars, the academics, the, the people with all the money and the lofty titles to retrieve this story, we would still be waiting if we waited for someone in Hollywood to give us a permission. Permission to make this film, we would still be waiting. The bottom line is something that William Grimes shows us in this film and in this book is to give yourself permission. And I want women to take that away, that message away children, anyone who has a desire or is passionate about anything. Don’t wait for someone to tell you, yes, you can, because you’ll be waiting a long time. You have to go out there and seize the moment by any means necessary. Okay. And when I say any means necessary, I mean in a good, law abiding way, you can get your story out there. And stories are powerful. Storytelling changes, perspectives. You’re not out there pointing fingers and saying, you know, you are this here, that you should have done it this way. So you simply tell your story and people what people will take away, what they need from this story. And we have people come to us all the time and talking about how this movie has inspired them and inspired them in ways that we never even conceptualize. So storytelling is powerful. Film is a great way to tell a marvelous story, and so is writing your life story. But another thing that I want our audience to come away with is that genealogy for the African American has the power to reclaim what was once denied. You see, by reclaiming the lives o…

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Regina Mason and Sean Durant (Ep. 15, 2020) Mar 15, 2020

Show notes

On this edition of In Black America, producer and host John L. Hanson, Jr. begins a conversation with Regina A. Mason, author of The Life of William Grimes, The Runaway Slave, and Sean Durant, producer and director of Gina’s Journey: The Search for William Grimes.

Juan Pablo Segura (Ep. 14, 2020) Mar 08, 2020

Show notes

On this week’s program, In Black America producer and host John L. Hanson, Jr. discusses the high rates of maternal mortality among African American women with Juan Pablo Segura, co-founder of Washington, DC.-based mobile app Babyscripts. Intro [00:00:08] The In Black America theme music, an instrumental by Kyle Turner. Announcer [00:00:15] From the University of Texas at Austin, KUT Radio, this is In Black America. Juan Pablo Segura [00:00:23] The first thing we did, myself and the other founder, we we actually went and got a chief medical officer. And so we we very quickly brought in an open two way and the chair of obstetrics at a hospital here in D.C. called Sibley Hospital. And, you know, we started putting together a team of technologists. So, you know, developers, you know, health care specialists. And very slowly, you know, we we have we had a big vision, which was how could we get not just smartphones, but Internet connected medical devices to the whole Internet of Things revolution. How could we get those devices in the patient’s home and start to catch problems earlier through remote patient monitoring so that less moms have to die in this country when it comes to them going through their pregnancy? John L. Hanson Jr. [00:01:11] Juan Pablo Segura, co-founder of the Washington, DC based Babies Groups. In recent years as high rate of maternal mortality in this country have alarmed researchers. One statistic has been especially concerning. According to the Center for Disease Control, African American mothers die at 3 to 4 times the rate of white mothers, one of the widest of all racial disparities in women’s health. Put another way an African-American woman is 22% more likely to die from heart disease than a white counterpart, 71% more likely to perish from cervical cancer. But 243% more likely to die from pregnancy on childbirth related causes. In a national study of five medical complications that are common causes for maternal death and injury. African American women were 2 to 3 times more likely to die than white women who had the same condition. Segura and his team at Babyscripts have been working tirelessly to improve maternal health in the District of Columbia, as well as around the nation. I’m Danielle Hinton, Jr, and welcome to another edition of In Black America. On this week’s program, African-American D.C. mothers are Dying and we Can Save Them. With Juan Pablo Segura, co-founder of Babyscripts In Black America. Juan Pablo Segura [00:02:28] I really think as we think about trying to solve the problems that we have here in the district, since there are very few doctors offices in Ward seven and eight, which are the very economically disadvantaged wards here in DC, there actually are no hospitals and maternity hospitals in Wards seven and eight. So if someone wants to deliver, they have to cross town. So think of the cost of doing that the time. You know, if there’s an issue. Complications that could occur by having to wait so long. So what we’ve been talking a lot about here in DC and a lot of work that I’ve been doing is how can we get digital tools that can make care available at any time, any place? How do we make them more accessible and how can we get doctors to give them more to their patients? John L. Hanson Jr. [00:03:11] Washington, DC, like many cities in this country, experienced the lack of access for quality health care in certain neighborhoods. This has created a unique problem for African-American pregnant women. With that in mind, Juan Pablo Segura, co-founder of Babyscripts, designed the platform to help expectant mothers. Two years ago, Wisconsin based health care provider as baby script to develop a strategy to reach that population. They realized they had to focus on technology and target ease of access via smartphone and to text messaging for women having trouble getting health care. What began in 2014 with the hope of transforming both how doctors and patients think of and use technology to improve their health care has now provided meaningful access to health care in underserved communities and improve the status quo of pregnancy care. Recently In Black America spoke with Juan Pablo Segura. Juan Pablo Segura [00:04:07] So I actually was born in that in the D.C. area, in Northern Virginia. My family’s actually from Argentina. So I’m a first generation American, and yet where I have stuck around D.C. haven’t really fallen too far from the tree here. Love of the district. And I started my company Babyscripts here in the in the D.C. area as well. So very, very proud of what we’re doing here in the district. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:04:35] What led you to start the company? Juan Pablo Segura [00:04:38] It’s really interesting. I used to be a consultant working for a big company called Deloitte. And, you know, I, I was I still am, you know, a lost millennial. Right? And so I just couldn’t I really couldn’t jive very well with with a big company. I was looking for meaning, looking to do something impactful. And a friend of mine had had a real tough health care experience that just opened my eyes to how broken the U.S. health care system was. And so, you know, I decided to do what anyone that’s watched Shark Tank. To do. I started a company and I ended up choosing pregnancy care because of my mom. I come from a big Hispanic Catholic family. You know, I had five siblings, so I’m one of six kids. And as I kind of reflected on my mom’s journey in health care, she actually had three miscarriages. And, you know, just the memories I had of the pain, the lack of answers. You know, I really believe that I believed back then, and I still believe to this day that technology and data and all these new tools that we have at our disposal can really start to solve and answer some of these tough questions for women especially. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:05:59] Now, I understand that you started this, what, in 2014? Juan Pablo Segura [00:06:02] Yup. 2014. Five very long years ago. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:06:06] And how did you put the group together? I guess you got designers and engineers and marketers and doctors and sciences. Juan Pablo Segura [00:06:14] Yeah. So the first thing we did. So, you know, I’ve. I’ve got big ideas and wanted to make a big impact. But the first thing we did, myself and the other founder, we we actually went and got a chief medical officer. And so we, we very quickly brought in an open to way and the chair of obstetrics at a hospital here in D.C. called Sibley Hospital. And, you know, we started putting together a team of technologists. So, you know, developers, you know, health care specialist. And very slowly, you know, we we have we had a big vision, which was how could we get not just smartphones, but Internet connected medical devices to the whole Internet of Things revolution. How could we get those devices into patients homes and start to catch problems earlier through remote patient monitoring so that less moms have to die in this country when it comes to them going through their pregnancy? And so, you know, it took a long time to get to where we’re at today. But what’s really exciting is we’re now in more than 50 health systems in 23 different states, and we touch around 200,000 pregnant women across the country. So, you know, it’s you know, I think anything’s possible in this country with a big idea and a lot of energy and a lot of hope. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:07:32] You would think in the nation’s capital, you know, health care will probably, you know, you’ll be one of the best. But what are some of the root causes of the high infant mortality rate that’s going on in the nation’s capital? Juan Pablo Segura [00:07:45] Yeah. So that’s definitely a loaded question. Okay. And, you know, there are a lot of issues going on in D.C. But for those that might not know in D.C., you know, when you start to look at the breakdown of of maternal mortality, especially amongst racial groups, black women in this country, you know, have about a 70. It’s all measured out of 100,000 people. But, you know, our rate is about 70 out of 100,000. That’s almost three times the national rate of maternal mortality. And it’s double the national rate of black maternal mortality. So when you start looking at the outcomes that we’re getting in the D.C. area, they’re really abysmal. And it’s a travesty. And, you know, there are a lot of reasons for that. Some a lot of them are tied to poverty and economic inequality. A lot of it is tied to, you know, also, you know, racial bias and dumping in black women, not getting the care that they need when they need it because of the color of their skin. And there are also a lot of issues around structural barriers, lack of transportation to go see a doctor, not enough hospitals where, you know, either the black women or the disadvantaged, economically disadvantaged women live. And so it’s almost impossible to really get good care so that, you know, you can have a healthy and happy pregnancy and delivery and postpartum journey. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:09:18] I understand there’s a bill before Congress or has it has it passed? Juan Pablo Segura [00:09:22] So there’s some pretty interesting nationwide. There actually are a couple of bills that are being led by some incredibly progressive and really innovative Congress, women and men. For example, Congresswoman Underwood from Illinois is is pushing some really important national, you know, whether it’s maternity bills in the in the Congress, but here at home with the D.C. council. So the local kind of legislative organization here in the nation’s capital that covers the D.C. residence, there’s actually been a couple incredible bills. For example, the maternal health Care Improvement and Expansion Act that are really focusing both the government and local business and organizations to start to address these massive gap in outcomes for. For black women here in the district and for all women as well, but especially for for for minorities. And so we’ve been actually trying to work really hard to get this bill passed and to be approved. And so now it’s in the House committee here in the D.C. Council. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:10:31] I was looking at some of the literature in which you all said, and I want to go through some of them. Digital health tools such as remote patient monitoring. How does that work? Juan Pablo Segura [00:10:42] Yeah. So so I think maybe to kind of separate what what, what we do as a company and then what we’re trying to do here in the district. Okay. So, yeah, a lot of digital health, you know, in mobile health. When you think of innovation in health care through technology, there’s kind of two main categories of, of of tool sets. The first is something called telemedicine, which, you know, imagine doing a video visit with your doctor where they can see you, You can see them and you talk about your symptoms or problems and, you know, they could prescribe you something. And that’s what a lot of people have thought innovation in health care is or it’s made up of through technology. There’s actually into many people’s surprise. There’s also and I would say a much larger category of innovation that we call digital health, which isn’t a video visit. It’s either a smartphone app that patients have access to. It could be the use of a Bluetooth or a cellular enabled medical device, like a blood pressure cuff, a blood glucometer or weight scale that you know, can connect directly to a doctor’s electronic medical record. And so all of these tools that aren’t video visits but can remote monitor a patient, can deliver through a chat, a kind of interaction or intervention. This is a very fast growing space in health care. And traditionally there’s been no reimbursement for those tools. So for digital tools, it’s very hard for doctors to get paid to give them to patients like a prescription or like telemedicine video visit, because not a lot of people really understand it. And, you know, I really think as we think about trying to solve the problems that we have here in the district, since there are very few doctors offices in Wards seven and eight, which are the very economically disadvantaged wards here in D.C., there actually are no hospitals and maternity hospitals in Wards seven and eight. So if someone wants to deliver, they have to cross town. So think of the cost of doing that. The time, you know, if there’s an issue, complications that could incur by having to wait so long. So we’ve been talking a lot about here in D.C. is a lot of work that I’ve been doing is how can we get these digital tools that can make care available at any time, any place? How do we make them more accessible? And how can you get doctors to give them more to their patients? And so, you know what? What we’ve been trying to work on and what we’ve been trying to enhance in this build the Maternal Health Care Improvement Extension Act is to create the first digital health mandate where insurance in the district would cover these new technologies like remote patient monitoring, so that we can start to give women care if they can’t see a doctor immediately. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:13:30] How would these particular services work outside of the D.C. area, or can it work outside the D.C. area? Juan Pablo Segura [00:13:37] I mean, I think there’s huge opportunity outside the D.C. area when you start to look at, for example, rural health care. Mm hmm. So what you’re seeing here in D.C. is there’s structural inequality and there’s structural kind of transportation barriers that are making it really hard for women to get the care they need. That further complicates the pregnancy rate. But, you know, you’re talking about smaller distances. Obviously, it’s very complex in a big city. But, you know, you’re not talking about miles or tens of miles of distance. You’re talking about a small area and you think about rural health care. 50% of counties in the United States lack a practicing OB-GYN. And that’s a really scary number. So when you look at, okay, well, women are pregnant and they have to drive 3 hours to get to the closest doctor. Think of, you know, how, for example, if there’s a blood pressure related issue, I don’t know how much you know about blood pressure problems, but blood pressure problems account for 10 to 15% of maternal deaths. And so when you think about, you know, a rising blood pressure that could be tied to something called preeclampsia, that could lead to a stroke and death, if women have to go see three, go to go travel 3 hours to just get a consultation with a doctor. There are huge issues in catching problems early, getting help when it’s needed. And so I think technology, especially digital health tools, have a big role in starting to address these big issues and moms getting the care they need. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:15:09] As you mentioned, you know, high blood pressure. I was also reading that, you know, heart disease and stroke. May be related to the infant’s death or the mom’s death sometime after after delivery. Juan Pablo Segura [00:15:23] Oh, absolutely. So there’s kind of a when you look at the maternity journey, there’s obviously the time that you’re pregnant, but there’s the time after you’re pregnant, the postpartum journey. And, you know, in many ways, the postpartum journey can be just as dangerous than the actual pregnancy. So, for example, the number one reason for postpartum readmission. So mom getting released from the hospital and then having to go back to the hospital after they deliver is blood pressure. It’s the number one reason blood pressure problems like preeclampsia somewhere. Where is the number one reason for maternal death is blood pressure in the postpartum time period. And so when you think about those issues and the fact that what if you were to give a mom a blood pressure cuff that has a Bluetooth or cellular chip inside, so every time they take their blood press…

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Richard Cahan (Ep. 13, 2020) Mar 05, 2020

Show notes

This week on In Black America, producer and host John L. Hanson, Jr. discusses the career of legendary photographer Ernest C. Withers with Richard Cahan, author of Revolution in Black and White: Photographs of the Civil Rights Era by Ernest C. Withers. Announcer [00:00:15] From the University of Texas at Austin, KUT Radio, this is In Black America. Richard Cahan [00:00:23] The pictures that he took from the 1942 to 1968. They were really documenting the movement. They were documenting the dream. And it ended with, you know, the assassination of Martin Luther King. And obviously, the movement continued. But times changed. His cameras changed him. He moved on to a 35 millimeter camera and took mostly color film. So it’s a whole nother look at, you know, there’s a there’s a beauty to this, you know, classic black and white photography. He really knew what he was doing. And and I think the pictures after that, not that they don’t have value, but they don’t have the drama. That’s why we really took the whole collection. And we said, what’s the most important message he had? And that message, I think, was kind of the the beauty of resistance, the resilience that African-Americans had during these decades. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:01:11] Richard Cahan, author of Revolution in Black and White photographs of the Civil Rights Era by Ernest C Withers, published by City Files Press. It was a self-made man. He was one of the most prominent African-American photographers during the civil rights years. During the course of his career. He took thousands of photographs that documented the movement from the Emmett Till trial in 1955 to the assassination of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr in 1968. What started out as a way to support his family turned into a pictorial history of life in the South and the epic events that helped shape this nation. Whether it was there for the Little Rock school battle. He was there for Medgar Evers funeral and the Memphis sanitation workers strike. He was also there to photograph weddings, high school proms and nightlife on Beale Street. I’m John L. Hanson Jr. and welcome to another edition of In Black America on this week program Revolution in Black and White photographs of the civil rights era by Ernest C. Withers with author Richard Cahan In Black America. Richard Cahan [00:02:17] That is very true. People really, you know, talk a lot in Memphis about the kind of the honor of being photographed by whites, whether it was by whether he was, in a sense, you know, came to their house when they were just photographed. And I think that that, you know, he he had a lot of self-confidence in himself. He always, you know, positioned himself right directly in front of his subjects. He certainly had the skill because he had done this for so many years, so many decades. And he made the scene, you know, he you know, an event wasn’t even an event in listeners whether he was there. So in a sense, people waited for him. There’s so many smiles in this book. They are so pleased that he’s that they’re being photographed such a different time than today when, you know, you know, when you when so many people are weary about being photographed, they don’t want to be photographed. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:03:07] You know, when owners see. Withers began his photographing career in his hometown of Memphis, Tennessee. He couldn’t go to the public libraries or be admitted to his best hospitals. Had it not been for his sister who gave him his first camera while he was in high school. We can only imagine what life would have been like for him, whether it is the genes behind many of the iconic photos we see today documenting the civil rights era. Besides his work with the moment he recorded on film The Everyday World in the south of African-Americans, proms, funerals, people where work and play and street life, he created a stunning record of what it was like to live in Memphis and the Mid-South. He also was a noted baseball photographer documenting Negro League Baseball. He also was a noted music photographer taking thousands of photographs of early jazz, blues, rock and roll and R&B performers. With his work is archived in the Library of Congress and is slated for the permanent collection of the Sony Institution’s National Museum of African American History and Culture. Recently In Black America spoke with Richard Cahan here regarding this amazing photojournalist. Richard Cahan [00:04:17] They call my colleague Michael Williams and I. They call us photo historians, which is a term we never even heard before. We we were called it. We were both photojournalists and I was what’s called the picture editor. So I work with photographers and photographs. And and I learned that there’s a lot of impact that words and pictures can can have when they’re work together. And I think we’ve all learned that now, you know, try to put up a Facebook post without a picture and you’ll realize how important pictures are. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:04:46] And in your previous life, you a program officer at a foundation. Richard Cahan [00:04:51] I was for a short time, but most of my life has been as a photojournalist. I worked for the Chicago Sun-Times for six years and I worked for newspapers most of my life. I was a journalist down at I put journalist down on my iris. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:05:04] I know. That’s right. So what sparked that initial interest in photojournalism? Richard Cahan [00:05:08] Well, I actually it’s it’s a long story. But to make it very short, I, I became. I’m interested in the idea of words and pictures working together. I think I was a kid and I went to the library and I got a Jackie Kennedy book about a tour of the White House. And I realized that through pictures, you can go anywhere in the world and with words, you can explain it all. So, uh, it was exciting to me then, and it still is now, six decades later. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:05:37] Is your alma mater the school that beat Michigan the other day? Richard Cahan [00:05:40] It is. It is. And it’s a school that has almost beaten several other top basketball teams. I’ll believe it when I see it. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:05:48] I have to say. How did you happen to come across Ernest Withers? Richard Cahan [00:05:52] I was down in Memphis and a friend of mine said I had to go see the Withers museum. There’s a little museum at the end of Beale Street that’s run by Roslyn Withers, who’s the daughter of Ernest Withers, and she keeps this little photo museum open till about midnight so that people who listen to music and drink on Beale Street can kind of end up there. And as she says, people come into the museum drunk and they oftentimes leave sober because they see these photographs, which is which are really great gifts to America, of photographs of the civil rights movement and photographs of entertainers and photographs of the end of Negro League baseball that Ernest Withers took starting in the 1940s. And he continued almost up until his death in 2007. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:06:40] How did Ernest become interested in photography? Richard Cahan [00:06:43] Well, he was actually it was during World War Two, and he was on the he was stationed in the Pacific Islands, and he found that if he took pictures of GI’s standing in front of bushes and holding their guns, that they loved it and they sent it back home. And he realized that there was really a business of taking pictures. And as soon as he got out of the Army in 1946, he started his own business. And and really, this is a book of somebody who was really hungry, hungry to make a living. He had eight children and he took on just about any assignment. You know, he was the that’s really one of the things that makes him unusual. He was the school photographer. He photographed proms. He was at funerals. He’d wake up every Sunday morning and go to churches and photograph churches. And and as he kept doing it decade after decade, he realized that he was really just as much of a historian as he was a photographer. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:07:39] I was interested in in reading that his entree prior to taking pictures of the servicemen when he went to the Pacific, he was there to photograph the construction of a runway or airport, or right? Richard Cahan [00:07:50] Yeah, right. That was his job. He was a photographer and he was documenting things for the the Army Corps of photographers that were out there in the Pacific. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:08:00] Now, one would think that if you’re a photographer, you got all this elaborate equipment. But he didn’t have that. Richard Cahan [00:08:05] He didn’t. He uh, number one, I don’t think he could afford it. And, you know, he had camera little very simple cameras. I mean, they’re not simple by today’s standards, but they were there were box cameras that I remember. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:08:18] I remember. Richard Cahan [00:08:19] Yeah. That took little two and a quarter negatives. And he always talked about how he never could afford long lenses, you know, telescopic lenses. So his feet were his long lens. If he needed to get a close up, he walked up to people. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:08:31] Tell us about the story when when Joe Louis, his wife, came to his school and he was the others, do they tend to go up to take a picture? Richard Cahan [00:08:39] Yeah, he was in he was in elementary school and he had just gotten a camera from his sister, his sister’s boyfriend, who had given him a camera. And, uh, this is Louis was at the school and he had the camera, and again, he didn’t have a telephoto lens, so he had no choice but to just walk down the aisle, go right up to the front and take a picture. And I think everybody was shocked that he had that nerve. And he loved the kind of the good feeling that it came from, you know, from being able the camera gave him kind of a an entree, you know, to anywhere he wanted to go in the world. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:09:13] Richard now, he photographed over 60 years worth of work, Right. How did you decide on what to include in this book? Is this part one? Richard Cahan [00:09:25] You know, I don’t think so. I’ll tell you why. Because the pictures that he took from the 1940s to 1968, they were really documenting the movement. They were documenting the dream. And it ended with, you know, the assassination of Martin Luther King. And obviously the movement continued. But times changed. His cameras changed. He moved on to a 35 millimeter camera and took mostly color film. So it’s a whole nother look at, you know, there’s there’s a beauty to this, you know, classic black and white photography. He really knew what he was doing. And and I think the pictures after that, not that they don’t have value, but they don’t have the drama. That’s why we really took the whole collection. And we said, what’s the most important message he had? And that message, I think, was kind of the beauty of resistance, the resilience that African-Americans had, you know, during these decades. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:10:21] How did you decide on the titles of the different chapters of photographs? Richard Cahan [00:10:25] Oh, well, there there are nine chapters, and each chapter is a is a song title of, uh, usually a popular rhythm and blues song or blues song. And, and we just had made a list of civil rights songs, and they all seemed to fit, you know, these sections of the book. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:10:42] Talk to us about when Ernest really got his calling to become a photojournalist when he started working for The Chicago Defender. Richard Cahan [00:10:50] Yea so, so he started Ernest Started is really just a commercial photographer. Right. He was there’s a great story that he used to go on Sunday mornings to Negro League baseball games at Martin Stadium, and he would take pictures instead of taking pictures of the the action, he would take pictures of the crowd because everybody got dressed up. This was like Easter every Sunday morning was like Easter. And and everyone looked really good. And he’d rush home to his studio. He’d process the film, he’d make prints. His wife would drive the prints in their oven. And then he rushed back to the ballpark before the game ended so that he could sell those prints. And that, you know, I think the key to him, to Ernest, was that he was willing to take on just about any assignment. So in the early 1950s, when when Negro newspapers were really an essential part of of the community, he was getting jobs with, you know, the Tri-State Defender, the Chicago Defender, other newspapers, where he was realizing that they didn’t have a white papers. Usually they relied on the Associated Press to send pictures. And he, in a sense, became his own press service. So he would take pictures of a basketball game or a graduation. And then he would you know, there were there were several dozen, you know, Negro newspapers in those days. And he would send them to all the newspapers, and that helped him make a living. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:12:13] When did he first photograph Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.? Richard Cahan [00:12:16] It was in 1950, uh, 1956. Mm hmm. It was one year after Rosa Parks refused to sit down and there was a yearlong boycott. And on the morning that they boycott in the morning that this case was settled and the boycott ended, he was on one of the first books, one of the first busses in Montgomery, and he was he literally waited for Martin Luther King and Ralph Abernathy to take a seat. About an hour or two later, as they rode the busses up front for the first time. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:12:46] How did he develop a kinship with with the movement and Dr. King? Richard Cahan [00:12:50] You know, I think it was just that he was always there. Withers was often called the official photographer, Martin Luther King’s official photographer, and that really wasn’t true. They liked each other. But, you know, King didn’t have the money to really pay somebody. So it was really that that whenever King was in Memphis, whenever King was anywhere near Memphis, Withers was always there. He wasn’t the official photographer, but they were very close. Andrew Young, who I know you’ve had on your program many times, he talks a lot and in introduction about how important Withers work was in spreading the spreading the word. I guess it’s the visual word, you know what what it all looked like. And he was very appreciative. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:13:31] I know. That’s right. If you’re just joining us, I’m John L. Hanson Jr. and you’re listening to In Black America from KUT Radio. And we’re speaking with Richard Cahan, author of Revolution in Black and White Photographs of the Civil Rights Era by Ernest Withers. Richard, in looking at the photographs of Mr. Withers work, there seemed to be a distinction that I guess he developed over time to make his photographs of those well, that when and Withers photographs was taken, you know, it was the Withers photograph. Richard Cahan [00:14:07] That is very true. People really, you know, talk a lot in Memphis about the kind of the honor of being photographed by Withers, whether it was by whether he was, in a sense, you know, came to their house when they were just photographed. And I think that that, you know, he he had a lot of self-confidence in himself. He always, you know, positioned himself right directly in front of his subjects. He certainly had the skill because he had done this for so many years, so many decades. And he made the scene, you know, he you know, an event wasn’t even an event unless interest Withers was there. So in a sense, people waited for him. There’s so many smiles in this book. They’re so pleased that he’s that they’re being photographed such a different time than today when, you know, you know, when you would when so many people are weary about being photographed, they don’t want to be photographed. You know. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:15:00] You’re right. Obviously, this was a dangerous job when…

Full show notes at the publisher

The Late George Curry (Ep. 12, 2020) Feb 23, 2020

Show notes

This week on In Black America, producer and host John L. Hanson, Jr. presents a conversation with the late George E. Curry, formerly Editor-in-Chief of Emerge Magazine. Curry was a staunch champion of the Black Press until his death in August, 2016.

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