In Black America

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Howard Bryant (Ep. 30, 2020) Jun 28, 2020

Show notes

This week on In Black America, producer and host John L. Hanson, Jr. speaks with journalist Howard Bryant, Senior Writer with ESPN.com, National Public Radio’s Weekend Edition correspondent, and author of Full Dissidence: Notes From An Uneven Playing Field. Intro music [00:00:08] The In Black America theme music, an instrumental by Kyle Turner. Speaker 2 [00:00:15] From the University of Texas at Austin, KUT Radio, this is In Black America. Howard Bryant [00:00:23] For dissidents, to me, the bottom line with that project was it really was an outgrowth of my last book, The Heritage, where I started to ask some different questions. I think that as a Black writer, you certainly look at situations over the past decade. More importantly, you look at Ferguson, you look at Eric Garner, you look at Tamir Rice and Trayvon Martin and all of those things happening. You’re looking at the backlash of the from the Obama presidency and then the election of Donald Trump. And I think that it was important for me to start to look at another question that I had asked in the Heritage, which was talking about these Black athletes, whether it was LeBron James or or Derrick Rose or the rest of these players talking about their power, Malcolm Jenkins in the Players coalition. But then asking another question in the wake of Colin Kaepernick, which was how much power do you actually have if you lose everything or if you risk everything for taking on a Black position? John L. Hanson Jr. [00:01:22] Howard Bryant, senior writer with ESPN.com, NPR’s Weekend Edition correspondent and the author of Full Dissonance Notes from an Uneven Playing Field, published by Beacon Press, where the issues are protest, labor, patriotism or class division, is clear that professional sports are no longer simply fun and games exposed in history as a hotbed of fractured and inequities that reflects or even drives some of the most divisive issues in our nation today. Bryant, for a better part of three decades, has covered professional sports. Now, in his ninth book, he provides insight into a cultural. African-American continues to navigate the sharp edges of whiteness as citizens who are always at risk of being told to go back from where they came from. His essays covers the player owner relationship, the mineralization of sports and the myth of integration, just to name a few. I’m John L Hanson Jr., and welcome to another edition of In Black America. On this week’s program Full Dissonance with Howard Bryant. In Black America. Howard Bryant [00:02:30] They think it’s a compliment when you’re when they’re saying these things to you. But it really in some ways, it doesn’t sound like a compliment when somebody tells you that they’re colorblind. How can you be colorblind in this culture and and protect me at the same time? You can’t be colorblind. You have to be as one of the great writers as Ibram Kendi says, as in quoting Angela Davis, You have to be anti-racist. You have to realize that the color does matter. And it’s very, very important because it’s going to inform how you see the world around you. Sometimes acting like you’re colorblind or using those terms. In some ways, it’s the equivalent of putting your head in the sand. You’ve got to be active and realize what what these terms mean and what the implications are if you’re going to actually have real friends. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:03:12] Within the nine essays. Howard Bryant of Biden, His latest book, Insightful Dissonance. He draws directly from his own life. He underscores the casual betrayal inherent in his white friendship, romantic and otherwise, and traces his and other family’s sacrifices in addressing the advantages of whiteness, particularly with regards to education. Much of his book is not about sports, but the ever changing landscape of what it means to be African-American in this country. Bryant underscores the degree to which White believe they are the only true Americans, and our others are just winners. Born and raised in Boston, he graduated from Temple University in 1991. He earned his master’s degree from San Francisco State University in 1993. Bryant began his career at the Oakland Tribune in 1991. He worked at The Washington Post before joining ESPN in 2007. Brian’s prolific baseball, writing on a variety of topics affecting the game. And that’s why In Black America caught up with him before the COVID 19 break out at spring training in Florida. You got in spring training. Howard Bryant [00:04:24] Spring training in Tampa today with the Yankees for the next few days. And then we’ll go over and go see the other teams, go see the Astros and go see the Nationals and then back to Arizona to do Dodgers and A’s and Giants and everybody else. It’s that time of season. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:04:39] So how’s it been looking? Howard Bryant [00:04:41] It’s good. It’s good. Obviously, the big story, of course, is is the Houston Astros and Dusty Baker and taken over. And with all this scandal taking place, it’s been interesting to see how the players are dealing with each other and how they deal with cheating and baseball and everything else. And and I’m always concerned about Dusty. You know, he’s the most successful Black manager the sport’s ever had. He’s in an incredibly difficult position, taking on an issue that’s not really his. But I’m hoping that he’s going to be able to manage it. If anybody if anybody can do it, Dusty can. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:05:10] And your thoughts on did the Astros handle it well? Howard Bryant [00:05:13] No, I thought they handled it very poorly, I thought. They handled everything about it poorly. I think they especially handled the fact that they hired Dusty to clean up their mess for them, and they gave him 1a1 year contract. And then the general manager that they hired, who has no experience, they gave him three years. So once again, it’s it’s a hard position for for Dusty to be in. And I think that you’re going to see, I think, the commissioner of baseball and company. I don’t think they handled it as well. Neither did the Players Association. So I think you’re going to see a lot of frontier justice issues. You’re going to see some players getting thrown out. You’re going to see some stuff on the field and we’ll see how they handle the other part of this, which is if it turns out that you find out that a lot of other teams have been doing the same thing. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:05:54] So what led you to write your ninth book? Howard Bryant [00:05:56] Well, for dissidence, to me, the bottom line with that project was it really was an outgrowth of my last book, The Heritage, where I started to ask some different questions. I think that as a Black writer, you certainly look at situations over the past decade. More importantly, you look at Ferguson, you look at Eric Garner, you look at Tamir Rice and Trayvon Martin and all of those things happening. You’re looking at the backlash of the from the Obama presidency and then the election of Donald Trump. And I think that it was important for me to start to look at another question that I had asked and the heritage, which was talking about these Black athletes, whether it was LeBron James or or Derrick Rose or the rest of these players talking about their power, Malcolm Jenkins in the Players coalition. But then asking another question in the wake of Colin Kaepernick, which was how much power do you actually have if you lose everything or if you risk everything for taking on a Black position? If you had real power, then your your career wouldn’t be in jeopardy simply for trying to defend Black people. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:07:02] When did we come to the notion or a realization, if one is discontent, that equates to being unpatriotic and un-American? Howard Bryant [00:07:12] Absolutely. And where does that put Black people? Since we’re constantly we’re constantly fighting for our rights, we’re constantly fighting for a place here, It always puts you in a disadvantageous position. It puts you in the position. Now you are now you’re being pitted against the entire country. And it made me ask myself one of the questions that that is central in the book, which is, are you a renter of the American Dream or are you an owner? And I make the conclusion that we’re renters because every time you say something, people feel like they can tell you to go back where you came from. And you can’t do that if you’re an owner. If you own something, people don’t tell you to go back because it’s yours. And so I sort of felt like I just started to reach a period of exhaustion and I felt I felt very nervous about where we are as Black people in this country because I’m nervous about where we are as Americans in this country. And, you know, when something happens to everybody, Black people get it worse. And so I was especially thinking about a lot of those young Black kids who are and I don’t mean to call them kids, I’m just older than they are. But, you know, for for the ones who 28 was their first election and they thought it was different and they thought that, okay, you got a Black president and how much stock in import did we put into that? And then you go from that to this, it’s like it’s like getting punched in the face. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:08:30] I found it interesting to a point where we’re basically living in two different Americas. And when you talk about the perception of the police from a white point of view versus the perception of a police and police departments from an African-American point of view, does I guess to some extent, does television have a lot to do with this? Howard Bryant [00:08:55] Absolutely, it does. And I think in one of the essays I wrote called Cop Agenda, which is all about police propaganda in entertainment, you recognize how much education people have about their police departments from television, how much they learn about it, how much they believe in that relationship, all from that mass media of the, you know, cop buddy movies and TV shows and sitcoms and the rest of it. And you see how both that and Post-9-11 America has really played out into this idea of the inherent goodness of police, that the police are the good guys, and the Black experience is antithetical to that. And the Black experience is very, very different. And so you start asking yourself, where do you have this? You know, why is this gap so wide? And I think one of the arguments that I was making was in this the reason why this book is titled Full Dissidence, it’s that you find out all of these people in your supposedly integrated, you know, community and your integrated workplace and everything, and you come from the same values and you make around the same money. You kind of come from the same place. Then you start talking about policing and you realize it is that two Americas that you’re talking about, you realize that all of a sudden you do look at it very, very differently. And this is one of the reasons why it’s. So different and so difficult to have accountability and to have justice and all those different things because the the viewpoint, the life experience is just so different. Like, for example, we’re talking about, you know, in this presidential campaign, you’re talking about Michael Bloomberg and the tape of him talking about throwing kids up against the wall and this assumption that Black kids are all carrying guns and everything. Or you look at that, that video in Orlando of a six year old being arrested, a six year old being handcuffed. And I grew I mean, I grew up around white people. I grew up and after we left Boston as a kid, I grew up in, you know, third and fourth grade up until graduation in a predominantly overwhelming white community. They didn’t even have any real money. And then as a you know, as an adult now, you know, my son goes to those same types of schools, although they’re a little bit higher up I fluently, you would never, ever, ever handcuff a white six year old. You wouldn’t you just don’t do that. And so you look at this and you start to look at your white friends and on the one hand, they look all horrified, but on the other hand, they still can’t make that leap. They still look and say, look, you can’t do this. You shouldn’t do this. And somebody should be held accountable. They’ll find all the different ways in the world to act horrified, but they will not change their minds about what is this actually say about police and policing. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:11:39] As you say that I remember a passage in the book where one of your friends said, I don’t know the relationship you had with her, that she doesn’t mind you being Black. Howard Bryant [00:11:50] Yeah, that was when I was a kid. That was one of the things that used to happen all the time when you and, you know, you grow up around all those kids and they. They wanted to make it sound like they were doing you the biggest favor in the world by treating you like a human being. Well, you know, it’s okay. My parents aren’t. They don’t mind. They don’t care that you’re Black. I’m like, Well, that’s good. That’s good. I care that you’re white. How about that? And so you start looking at these things differently and you realize I think the thing that’s interesting about it, too, and it’s not necessarily to be confrontational, it’s to think about how we treat each other in terms of language. Think about what you’re actually saying. It they they think it’s a compliment when you’re when they’re saying these things to you. But it really in some ways, it doesn’t sound like a compliment when somebody tells you that they’re colorblind. How can you be colorblind in this culture and and protect me at the same time? You can’t be colorblind. You have to be as one of the great writers, as Ibram Kendi says, is quoting Angela Davis, You have to be anti-racist. You have to realize that the color does matter. And it’s very, very important because it’s going to inform how you see the world around you sometimes acting like you’re colorblind or using those terms. In some ways, it’s the equivalent of putting your head in the sand. You’ve got to be active and realize what what these terms mean and what the implications are if you’re going to actually have real friends. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:13:07] I found it interesting how how you made the connection between Colin Kaepernick and Nike and his commercial and the National Football League and its relationship with corporate America. Howard Bryant [00:13:22] Well, I was concerned at first because obviously when Colin took the knee and you saw what was happening to him, there was no question about his politics and about him trying to do something for Black people to draw attention to where we are as a country in terms of policing and not just Black people, but the lack of accountability on police. Go go look up the video of Daniel Shaver, the you know, the white pest control guy who was who was essentially just shot to death by police at point blank range. He’s a white man. So it’s not just a racial thing. It’s a policing accountability thing. And and then I started to get worried about it on the other side because I saw that that, you know, Colin hadn’t given any interviews in, you know, almost three years and he hadn’t spoken. And I was worried about what this meant. And I heard, you know, and he and I had spoken a couple of times and we had texted and I, you know, was really concerned by saying to him, you know, are you allowing other people to speak for you by not speaking, by not giving interviews? Are you letting people shape you in a way that you don’t want to be in a way that you don’t want to be shaped? And and then I heard from a lot of grassroots activists who were frustrated with Colin as well, because they were like, well, how come he’s not saying anything? And we we need him and we want him to be out front on all these things. Is he walking away from us? And so I was worried about that.…

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The Bart Starr Awards (Ep. 29, 2020) Jun 21, 2020

Show notes

This week on In Black America, producer and host John L. Hanson, Jr. presents highlights from this year’s Bart Starr Awards, held during Super Bowl 54 Week in south Florida, featuring NFL host James Brown, Hall of Fame coach Tony Dungy, and this year’s Award winner, retired Giants quarterback Eli Manning.

Michael and Pele Bennett (Ep. 28, 2020) Jun 14, 2020

Show notes

On this week’s In Black America program, producer and host John L. Hanson speaks with NFL defensive lineman Michael Bennett and his wife, food advocate Pele Bennett, discussing Mouthpeace, their new, ground-breaking podcast that addresses a variety of provocative, personal topics. Intro music [00:00:08] The In Black America theme music, an instrumental by Kyle Turner. Announcer [00:00:15] From the University of Texas at Austin, KUT Radio. This is In Black America. Michael Bennett [00:00:23] It’s a company we end up working with. Then we did a show called Good Kid. It had been a while that me and Pele had been talking about doing the podcast because we were like, You know what we have? There’s not a lot of people out there talking about things as a couple, you know, raising marriage to be something strong, raising a family and talk about things like that as a couple and growing a business together and also challenging, challenging society and social issues. And so we were like, you know, we should do a podcast, but we just kind of let some time pass. We kind of talked about a couple of times, but then we end up doing that show. And after the show they were like, You guys are so good, you should do a podcast. And we were like, Okay, let’s do one. And so we just took it from there, really. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:00:54] Michael Bennett, former NFL defensive lineman and Super Bowl champion, activist, author and co-host of Mouthpiece. Also Bennett is the New York Times best selling author of Things That Make White People Uncomfortable. He and his wife, Nellie, run the Bennett Foundation with their children together. On their new podcast, the Cowboys was personal and provocative topics ranging from love, parenting, the NFL and politics. Bennett sees mountains as another way of showing the impact that he and his wife have made beyond football. Prior to mountain peaks and vineyards, I worked with Lemon not only once on the network’s third original podcast, Good Kids How Not to Raise an A-hole. Since being picked up by the Seattle Seahawks as an undrafted rookie in 2009. Women have had a long and lucrative career highlighted by three Pro Bowl nominations and a Super Bowl title with the Seahawks in 2013. I’m John L Hanson Jr. And welcome to another edition of In Black America On this week’s program, Mouthpiece with Michael Anthony Bennett In Black America. Pele Bennett [00:02:10] We’ve just completed 11 years in the NFL. That was always a learning lesson. Each year I personally started to evolve and grow and our family started growing. You know, we went from one to now we have three girls. And so each year it’s still a curve ball. It’s almost like when you get pregnant again and you’re like, Oh, I have a baby, but you have to start all over again. And so each year is different. And for us, because we did travel to different cities and it’s last year we were in two cities for the first time in one season. And so there was a lot of growth. I think that happened between our marriage, you know, our relationship and then also our children. All of us really had to tackle so many different obstacles. But I think through all the adversity that we’ve been through throughout the years of ups and downs and just kind of learning the game and how do you balance, you know, life with children and still having your me time and self-care? I think that it continues to evolve and sometimes when you think you got it, then you learn something else and it keeps getting better. We’ll see. So I appreciate everything that has come with football, even though it has been stressful, but it has that we’ve learned. I think to say, to be honest now, we’re really been good at being balanced as a family. I mean, we’re getting better and better. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:03:12] Pele Bennett, wife of NFL defensive lineman Michael Bennett, Pele is a superstar in her own right. She is a food advocate and has a passion for gardening. She’s also a scale Polynesian dancer. Together, the beans have taken on everything from racial justice work to offering a children’s book to parenting three daughters Have I mentioned they also were high school sweethearts? On their new podcast, produced by Lemonade Media, heard every Friday title mouth be The vendors invite their sons and the guests into their professional and private lives to take on topics provocative and personal. I’m sitting out the national anthem and achieving their romance. For us, the conversation managed to be all things at once hilarious, inquisitive and unfiltered. The podcast is designed to appeal not only to football fans but also other married couples recently, and I use that word loosely In Black America. Spoke with the business from Hawaii Public Radio. Aloha. Pele Bennett [00:04:20] Aloha. Michael Bennett [00:04:21] Aloha. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:04:23] And the staff. Pele Bennett [00:04:24] Working on it. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:04:25] For those who are not familiar with you, Michael, give us a little background about yourself. Were you born and raised? Michael Bennett [00:04:31] I’m originally from Louisiana, but I kind of grew up between Texas and Louisiana. Went to college at Texas A&M, uh, ended up playing for Seattle Seahawks. And that’s pretty much my journey. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:04:43] Did you run through Dallas for a while? Michael Bennett [00:04:45] I’m happy for the Cowboys, but I don’t know if those are if that’s what people want to hear, too, because a lot of people hate the Cowboys. Like you saying, you pay, you know, you say you play for the Cowboys, they love you or you say you play for the Cowboys and you get punched in the stomach either once. Uh. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:04:59] And Mr. Taylor, can you tell us about yourself? Pele Bennett [00:05:02] Yes, I am Pele Bennett. I am from Houston, Texas, but I’m a descent from Polynesia specifically, is that there’s someone Islands and me and Michael both have a foundation, the Bennett Foundation, where we work on building communities through health, food, nutrition. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:05:22] And how did you all meet? Pele Bennett [00:05:24] We actually met in high school in Houston. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:05:27] And who made the first move? Michael, you. Pele Bennett [00:05:30] Know, I’m a gentleman. Michael Bennett [00:05:32] I’m a gentleman. I waited. I waited. She. I was holding out. She just kept trying so hard. I was like, Oh, here we go. Let me give her an opportunity. Oh, So. Pele Bennett [00:05:42] Is it like. Michael Bennett [00:05:42] Yeah. So that’s what happened. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:05:44] So you all met in high school. And how long did it take you all to get married? Michael Bennett [00:05:49] Eight years. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:05:51] Eight? Pele Bennett [00:05:52] I mean, we were so young. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:05:53] Okay. Pele Bennett [00:05:54] 52 when I first met him. So, yeah, I was a good. Good. Well, before we actually. Michael Bennett [00:05:59] Eight years. Pele Bennett [00:06:00] Got married. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:06:01] Michael, when did you know that you had a special gift? Playing football. Michael Bennett [00:06:07] It was. My mama said, uh, when I was in her belly, I used to always run inside of her stomach. So I guess it started when I was a baby. No, I’m joking now. I think it really started in Louisiana. I think I really felt like I feel like I played football a certain way in California, But I feel like when I moved to Louisiana and I was like a city boy in the country, and I was able to compete and in my grandpa’s yard with the rest of the boys from all over the town. And I feel like, Oh, I’m competing out here. So I feel like that’s kind of when I knew I had some talent. I used to love playing football back home in Louisiana so much. I feel like that’s where I found my passion for it. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:06:45] And when you were in high school, what position did you play? The same position that you played in the pros and at. Michael Bennett [00:06:51] A&M and I should I pay running back my joke, really. I played running back all the way up to 1130. Like I never played defense. I was just off. I mean, offense. I was always running, but so and then I got so tall it it was like me. And you don’t know if you want to play running back. Pele Bennett [00:07:07] You just say that your body is not ready. Michael Bennett [00:07:10] Yeah. And I got tired. All of a sudden I got the one summer burn and it was like, I’ll playing on the defensive end. There’s a go, you play running back. So you got like goofy and all that kind of stuff. So I was like, Let me try it. And then it turned out to be a good, good decision. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:07:23] Finally, what were some of your favorite activities while you were in high school? Pele Bennett [00:07:27] In high school, I dabbled in sports. I did play softball. I was actually on the flag team, which a lot of people make fun of me. But that was a really fun experience. But I also grew up my family. As for work, we had a Polynesian show, so I grew up dancing Polynesian performances and we traveled all over the U.S. doing that. So that was actually an activity that I did a lot of in high school. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:07:52] So when you all got married, where did you all settle? Were you in Seattle at that time? Oh, Pele and. Pele Bennett [00:07:57] No, we were actually Michael was with the Buccaneers at that time and we were living in Florida. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:08:02] So did you. I like Tampa. Oh. Pele Bennett [00:08:05] You know what I heard? It has changed a lot and it’s an happen in place now. But at the time, I mean, we were just there for work. So everything really revolved around his career at that time. And we were really new into the NFL as well. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:08:20] That same we still had a barbecue place while you are there in Tampa. Michael Bennett [00:08:24] Who knew ourselves? John L. Hanson Jr. [00:08:25] Yeah. Leroy Oh man. Michael Bennett [00:08:27] There are so many. I should let them barbecue names. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:08:29] In their bread. I mean, you. Michael Bennett [00:08:32] Missy Ross I will. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:08:33] You couldn’t miss it on the way to the stadium. Yeah. Michael Bennett [00:08:37] You know, Louie. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:08:38] Dewey, Dewey. Michael Bennett [00:08:39] Cooley. They had all the brothers Louis, the the Salomon Brothers. They were so good. They’re so good at football. And. But they had them barbecue wings, though. Me and Gerald McCoy’s do, like, 25 each. Like, I just. I said Logan Leroy so and so. We used to go there all the time. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:08:57] Tell me about the Bennett Foundation. Pele Bennett [00:09:00] Pele Yes. So we started our foundation actually out of Hawaii when we moved here in a michael actually came up with the idea because he saw an issue in Hawaii for different nutrition programs and physical education. And so he wanted to tackle it. And he brought it home to me with this idea. And we found the most amazing people to just kind of talk about issues on health and wellness. And we started more so on the physical side of it, on how can we incorporate different programs and more education for the young, you know, students, because a lot of the schools at the time didn’t have that as part of their curriculum. And so we got amazing people together and we formed the Bennett Foundation, which now is still running. And we are going into our sixth year and we’re still fighting the same issues. And, you know, being food advocates and talking about health and nutrition. And now our girls are along with us, some of our closest friends, you know, we’ve made through our foundation in a lot of communities. You know, I feel that we have made an impact, but also they’ve made, you know, larger impact on us. I think, to be honest. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:10:02] Has it been difficult for others to buy into you all? Our vision for the foundation? Michael Bennett [00:10:08] Yeah, I think so. I think sometime when you move to places like are you helping in Hawaii? Like people ask the question, why? Why are you doing this? So I think it takes a lot of times for people to understand why somebody wants to have kindness and give back without action for anything in return. So, you know, it’s almost like they feel like a little Red Riding Hood, you know what I’m saying? Like, it’s like they feel like eventually there’s a wolf that’s going to come out. But then their day was really just about us loving the community and giving back in a positive fashion. But it usually takes time for people to build a organic relationship, which we understood because you just don’t pop up when people start loving you, especially when they don’t know who you are, who you are as an individual, what your family represent, and what is your foundation and principles built on as a as a collective, as a family. So it takes it takes some time. But we’ve gotten to the point where we feel like we’ve kind of made some headway here. Seattle, Houston, we’ve done a lot of things across America just for different six of people. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:11:02] While you were playing. Was it a mindset of always thinking about what are you going to do after football? Oh, it was. Michael Bennett [00:11:09] Always a balance. I think it was a balance. I think sometimes in football you can’t think about the future too much, too much because you can’t be in the present in the game. It’s like if you think about if you get injured before the game, then you think about it like you can’t think about what’s happening in front of you. So as a fighter, you always want to defend yourself and you got to be there mentally. So I think on the off season, a lot of people think about what they’re going to do. That’s when you mostly think about life, about the football. You really don’t think about doing the season because during the season there’s so many things happening. You got family, you’ve got games, you’ve got all these different things, massages, all these different things. You don’t have time to plan for the future. You just trying to really try to conquer that one moment. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:11:45] Pele How do you go about navigating time with the family, but also understanding that, you know, Michael had a job playing football and trying to balancing the two. Pele Bennett [00:11:55] So, you know what? I think as I continued, you know, we’ve just completed 11 years in the NFL. That was always a learning lesson. And I think each year I personally started to evolve and grow and our family started growing. You know, we went from one to now we have three girls. And so each year it’s still a curve ball. It’s almost like when you get pregnant again and you’re like, Oh, I have a baby, but you have to start all over again. And so each year is different. And for us, because we did travel to different cities and it’s last year we were in two cities for the first time in one season. And so there was a lot of growth. I think that happened between our our marriage, you know, our relationship and then also our children. All of us really had to tackle so many different obstacles. But I think through all the adversity that we’ve been through throughout the years of ups and downs and just kind of learning the game and how do you balance, you know, life with children and still having your me time and self-care? I think that it continues to evolve. And and sometimes when you think you got it, then you learn something else and it keeps getting better. We’ll see. So I appreciate everything that has come with football, even though it has been stressful, but it has that we’ve learned. I think to say, to be honest now, we’re really been good at being balanced as a family and we’re getting better and better. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:13:06] Now, I have some friends who are former football players and they wives. They told me there…

Full show notes at the publisher

Charles Whitaker (Ep. 27, 2020) Jun 14, 2020

Show notes

This week on In Black America, producer and host John L. Hanson, Jr. presents a 2019 conversation with Charles Whitaker, Dean of the Medill School of Journalism, Media, and Integrated Marketing Communications at Northwestern University, discussing the issue of diversity in the field of journalism.

Charles Whitaker (Ep. 27, 2020) Jun 10, 2020

Show notes

This week on In Black America, producer and host John L. Hanson, Jr. speaks with Charles Whitaker, Dean of the Medill School of Journalism, Media and Integrated Marketing Communications at Northwestern University, discussing his work at Medill and at Ebony Magazine, and the lack of diversity in newsroom management.

Dr. Robert F. Jefferson, Jr. (Ep. 26, 2020) May 31, 2020

Show notes

This week on In Black America, producer and host John L. Hanson, Jr. presents a 2019 conversation with Dr. Robert F. Jefferson, Jr., Associate Professor of History at the University of New Mexico and author of Brothers in Valor: Battlefield Stories of the 89 African Americans Awarded The Medal of Honor. Intro music [00:00:08] The In Black America theme music, an instrumental by Kyle Turner. Announcer [00:00:15] From the University of Texas at Austin, KUT Radio, this is In Black America. Dr. Robert F. Jefferson Jr. [00:00:22] Yes and no. For one thing, many of the World War two individuals and also families are very close knit. So what I had to do was basically introduce myself and then also talk about what the nature of my work was all about. And then I also had to relay my own family history. Like they would ask me this when I first met them and say, Where’s your family from? That was the first question from both of them. What was, you know. Where was my family from? And also, what did your what did your grandfather and what you felt? What is your father did that that was really the way to death, that we broke the ice on having any kind of conversation about the war altogether. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:01:01] Dr. Robert F. Jefferson Jr. Associate professor of history at the University of New Mexico and author of Brothers Invalid Battlefield Stories of the 89 African-Americans awarded the Medal of Honor, published by Lyons Press since the Civil War. African American soldiers have been serving this country with distinction. Brothers in Valor is a history lesson on the 89 African American soldiers who were awarded the nation’s highest military award, the Congressional Medal of Honor. The history lesson cover those courageous servicemen from the Civil War to the Vietnam Theater. Jefferson paints a vivid picture of African American soldiers who carry the flag of freedom, but had to face the fight to be recognized as patriots, heroes and leaders. I’m John L. Hanson Jr. and welcome to another edition of In Black America. On this week’s program, Brothers in Valor, Battlefield Stories of the 89 African-Americans awarded the Medal of Honor with Dr. Robert F. Jefferson, In Black America. Dr. Robert F. Jefferson Jr. [00:02:04] Well, this book largely grew out of my first book because I had I had questions about how the public saw African American soldiers during the Second World War and also how did they perceive their conduct in the face of battle. For me, I really struggled trying to answer that question. And I also wanted to see if there were any kind of historical undercurrents to that question. So that led me to thinking about, okay, all of these men who have been recognized for these these acts of gallantry in the face of battle. And also, what did they think about notions like and also definitions of courage and things like that? Our community is very steep, but they, I think, is steep in applying conduct to basically write. And I think that that’s something that they carried forward from basically the Civil War even down through the present day that we live right now. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:02:59] Dr. Robert F Jefferson Jr has long been interested in African-Americans involvement with military service. His previous books focused on the relationship between African-American GIs and their communities during World War Two and Fighting for Hope, African-American Truth and the 93rd Infantry Division in World War Two and postwar America. In his latest book, Brothers in Valor, Jefferson presents the 89 African-Americans who were awarded the Medal of Honor. Consider this These African-American soldiers march forward when all odds were against them, both on the battlefield and off. They reshaped the very definition of courage under fire during some of the most harrowing moments in U.S. military history. The heroes Jefferson write about in his book face certain death with nerves of steel without flinching. In turn, their courage and determination left an indelible mark on the American landscape. Recently, In Black America, I spoke with Jefferson. Dr. Robert F. Jefferson Jr. [00:04:01] Well, I was born in Darlington, South Carolina. My family moved from there to, uh, to to Norfolk, Virginia, where basically I, I grew up. I spent my formative years and went to school at the University of, uh. At the University of Michigan graduate school. But before that, I was I basically went to school at Elon College in North Carolina. So I’ve been I’ve been pretty much all over the place, I think. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:04:29] Any brothers and sisters? Dr. Robert F. Jefferson Jr. [00:04:30] Yeah, I got. Oh, my gosh. I got. I got. I got two brothers and I got four sisters. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:04:38] So I guess at home growing up, it was never a dull moment. Dr. Robert F. Jefferson Jr. [00:04:42] No, it wasn’t was. You can ask my mom about that too. Every time she walked in the door, it was always something. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:04:47] What were some of your favorite subjects while you were matriculating to high school? Dr. Robert F. Jefferson Jr. [00:04:51] For me, my favorite subject was, uh, I. It was actually political science. I had a high school teacher who. He had a way of basically bringing, um, bringing government to life for us. And that’s what really got me interested in teaching, because he would come into the classroom and you didn’t know, you didn’t know what to what to be prepared for. He asked you to. Just bring your brain with you and that’s it. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:05:17] And what led you to major in history? Dr. Robert F. Jefferson Jr. [00:05:21] Well, my father, um. He taught African history. Mm hmm. And in South Carolina, he was. He was actually a master school teacher in South Carolina. And, um, he he was also somebody who was who had a tendency to captivate students. He would take me to his classes when I was, you know, when I was growing up. And I sit in the back of the room and I’d watch I just watch how students basically hung on his every word as he was talking. I mean, for for a kid growing up, you know, you think your parents are good. What they’re doing is not really, um, it’s not really extraordinary. But as the years went by, I realized that he was doing something phenomenal in the classroom, and I wanted to. I wanted a piece of that. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:06:07] What led you to Wayne State University? Dr. Robert F. Jefferson Jr. [00:06:10] Wayne State University. Um, i, i, i, I was actually hired there by someone. I was. I was recruited to go there by someone who actually was the subject of my first book, Fighting for Hope. African-American. Uh, true. So the 93rd Infantry Division in World War Two and, uh, and postwar America. Right. He he. I met him for the first time, and he said, you know what? We’re going to try to see if we can get you to come here. And at that time, when I was in graduate school, I thought he was just pulling my leg. But soon enough, like a couple of years later, he was he he came to me and said, you know what? We want you to come and do a job, too. So I did that. And, and that’s how my Wayne State, um, experience started. I mean, he was waiting was a great place to be, by the way. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:06:59] How long did you stay at Wayne State? Dr. Robert F. Jefferson Jr. [00:07:01] I stayed there for three years. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:07:04] The reason I ask that question, because I’m from Detroit. So how did you like living in Detroit? Dr. Robert F. Jefferson Jr. [00:07:08] Oh, it was. It was great. The one thing about Wayne State is that you get you get nontraditional students coming into your classes and the stories they told about, you know, what life was like in Detroit. I tell you, it was almost like a history lesson every time that I stepped into the classroom with them. And I learned I think they learned I learned just as much from them as they learned from me. I learned what cities like Detroit, what makes them tick. Mm hmm. And, um, it it just was a phenomenal experience. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:07:39] What led you to the University of New Mexico? Dr. Robert F. Jefferson Jr. [00:07:41] Well, I came here as a result of, um, basically, uh, I applied for the job here as the director of the African Studies program. The thing is, I didn’t know anything about New Mexico. I didn’t know anything about. I didn’t know anything about the Southwest when I first got here. And, um, I found that I. I was learning on the fly as I got here. I mean, I just. For one thing, I fell in love with the Southwest. I love being here. And I also, like, um. I also like, uh, the University of New Mexico, because the student body here is quite unique. The things that I teach in the classroom, they have a, they have a way of taking the things that we talk about during our discussions. And then they go home and, and I see they’re having these discussions when they go home to and go to their dorms and then they come back and they have these really interesting collective questions about what life was like during the giving period and so forth. And then they also apply it to their own lived experiences. I think that’s that that in itself is really fascinating. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:08:44] Have you grown to appreciate the Indian culture that’s in New Mexico? Dr. Robert F. Jefferson Jr. [00:08:48] Oh, yes, I have. My wife and I, every chance we get, we try to go and do these field trips around the state here to see this, to see the landscape, and then also to try to imagine what it was like to live here at the turn of the century. You know. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:09:03] Obviously, this book that you’ve written is not the first book on military. What initially sparked an interest in African-Americans in the military? Dr. Robert F. Jefferson Jr. [00:09:12] Well, my grandfather served in World War Two, and he went when I was growing up. He used to tell me stories about what it was like to be in the segregated Army in the 1940s. And he the way he talked about it was he always it always came back to, I think, community and also family, because for him it was really important for him and he was one of the one of the first people to basically leave home and my family. So when he as he was talking about these things, I became fascinated in what military life meant for basically the collective home for African Americans as a whole. And that’s what led me to write in my first book. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:09:51] Was it difficult in and in researching this particular subject? Dr. Robert F. Jefferson Jr. [00:09:56] Yes and no. For one thing, um, many of the World War two individuals and also families are very close knit. So what I had to do was basically introduce myself and then also talk about what the nature of my work was all about. And then I also had to relay my own sense. The history. Like they would ask me this when I first met them and say, Where’s your family from? That was the first question. All that from most of them. What was, you know, where was my family from? And also what did you what did your grandfather and what you felt what did your father do that that was really the way that that we broke the ice on having any kind of conversation about the war altogether. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:10:38] And the thing. If you’re just joining us, I’m John L. Hanson Jr. And you listening to In Black America from KUT Radio. And speaking of Dr. Robert Jefferson Jr., associate professor in the Department of History at the University of New Mexico and author of Brothers in Valor Battlefield Stories of the 89 African-Americans awarded the Medal of Honor. Dr. Jefferson, what led you to write this particular book? Dr. Robert F. Jefferson Jr. [00:11:04] Well, this book largely grew out of my first book because I had questions about it. I had questions about how the public saw African-American soldiers during the Second World War and also how did they perceive their conduct in the face of battle. Mm hmm. For me, I really struggled trying to answer that question. And I also wanted to see if there were any kind of historical undercurrents to that question. So that led me to thinking about, okay, all of these men who have been recognized for these these acts of gallantry in the face of battle. And also, what did they think about notions like and also definitions of courage and things like that? Our community is very steep, but I think it’s steep in applying conduct to basically. Right. And I think that that’s something that they carried forward from basically the Civil War even down through the present day that we live right now. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:12:02] I found it interesting, which was the history lesson for myself, is that prior to it actually being named as we know it today, the Medal of Honor, it was called something else. Can you take us through that progression? Dr. Robert F. Jefferson Jr. [00:12:15] Yeah, it was for many of those who didn’t. First of all, it did not get the I guess, the designation of the Medal of Honor until the Civil War. It was something that was you know, it was thought about during the American Revolutionary War. The Continental Congress, in fact, was trying to figure out ways in which to strike special medals for acts of gallantry, for basically their for their generals, people like George Washington and and and Horatio Gates and also Daniel Morgan and others. But then later on, they started thinking about, okay, what about the business of foot soldiers who basically stayed in the ranks? So they started. They looked. By the time the Mexican-American war rolled around, they started thinking about how could they basically acknowledge everyday soldiers for the things that they were doing and in the face of fierce fighting. So but about a civil war, the whole notion of what honor meant and what courage meant was then codified, I think. And Abraham Lincoln said that he wanted to do something else with that. So that’s how the Medal of Honor came into being. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:13:21] When you sat down to write this particular work, were there any particular avenues you definitely wanted to pursue? Dr. Robert F. Jefferson Jr. [00:13:29] Oh, yes. I wanted to look at. For me, I wanted to understand the two periods the World War two period and the Vietnam War period. And the reason why is because it was personal for me. And I think, as I said before, my grandfather served in the Second World War, but I also had some uncles who served in the Vietnam War. And the stories they told were quite it was strikingly different from what my grandfather talked about. And I wanted to understand. So how did this these ideas about basically gallantry, courage, honor? How did they basically say how did they change over a 20 year period? I mean, the way my uncles talked about it, it was about it was about saving lives and it was about it. It was about basically being able to come home in one piece and have their brothers who were fighting next to them come home in one piece. For my grandfather, they were basically fighting for their own fight for something much more than that. So I wanted to understand that there’s a continuum there that that I think we we really ought to pay attention to when we start thinking about this. The African-Americans serving just serving in overseas operations. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:14:34] Tell us about the first recipient of the Medal of Honor. William H. Dr. Robert F. Jefferson Jr. [00:14:39] Carney was somebody who fascinated me from the very beginning because he was somebody who was he was very outspoken about about the about the Civil War, what it was all about. He knew from the very beginning he and those who basically went in from the very beginning, they knew that they were fighting for much more than just fighting for much more than just themselves. They were fighting for their community. They were fighting for They were just basically fighting for freedo…

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Dr. Albert D. Chester (Ep. 25, 2020) May 25, 2020

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This week on In Black America, producer and host presents a conversation from 2019 with Dr. Albert D. Chester, owner of New Town Pharmacy and founder and director of Capstone Institute, both located in Jacksonville, Florida. The discussion covers health care worker training, and meeting the health care needs of an underserved population.

Selena Sage (Ep. 24, 2020) May 17, 2020

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This week on In Black America, producer and host John L. Hanson, Jr. presents a conversation with Selena Sage, inspirational speaker, owner of ZenTao Books publishing, and author of Get Free: 7 Simple Steps to Free Your Mind and Live Your Dreams.

A Tribute to Ron Banks (Ep. 23, 2020) May 13, 2020

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This week on In Black America, producer and host John L. Hanson, Jr. presents a tribute to his old “marble-shooting’ buddy”, the late Ron Banks. He was a founding member of the legendary soul and R&B vocal group from Detroit, The Dramatics. Ron Banks passed away in 2010.

Corey Minor Smith (Ep. 22, 2020) May 03, 2020

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This week on In Black America, producer and host John L. Hanson, Jr. presents a 2019 conversation with Corey Minor Smith, attorney, singer, transformational speaker, , and author of #Driven. She was previously an At Large member of the Canton, Ohio City Council, the first African American elected to a city-wide position in Canton. Announcer [00:00:15] From the University of Texas at Austin, KUT Radio, this is In Black America. Corey Minor Smith [00:00:22] Where there’s actually three distinct events that I recall. One at the age of 15, having to have the court decide my life. And that was in regards to where I was going to live. And at that point that morning, I woke up wanting so badly to go into the courtroom and seeing that person in a black robe, seeing the people in the suits and understanding and knowing what their jobs were. Unfortunately, we were never called into the courtroom. My whole life was decided without us even being in there. So I didn’t learn that day. But then in high school, I was assigned to the local municipal court for a summer job program, and then I was able to work directly with the people in the black robes, i.e. the judges, as well as work with those individuals that were in the suits i.e. the attorneys. And I knew then that I wanted to be a lawyer. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:01:11] Corey Minor Smith, attorney, from Canton, Ohio. City Councilman at large member, Transformational speaker, author of #Driven. See Smith today is the one and she has achieved what she has to this point. As a child growing up, she lived an eight different households. She had two unstable parents, one diagnosed with manic depression/schizophrenia, the other a drug dealer. She attended 14 schools, two preschools, eight elementary schools, three middle junior high schools and two high schools, all between three different states. And she was sexually abused at the hands of a stepmother’s father. Had it not been for a speech given by pro football Hall of Famer Shannon Sharpe at his induction, one can only imagine how Minor Smith’s life would have turned out. I’m John L. Hanson Jr. and welcome to another edition of In Black America. On this week’s program, Growing Up with Mental Illness in the Family with Corey Minor Smith In Black America. Corey Minor Smith [00:02:16] All that I could describe it as is weird, right? I didn’t know what was going on. I just heard my mom talking about, you know, small cameras being in the hole in the wall. You know, it could be like a hole from a nail. But she believed that someone put a camera or a recording device in it, that there were recording devices in the cars. And when we went to church, you know, the pastors or guest pastors were talking about things that she did in her apartment. And so it was very hard for me to understand or comprehend or even just relate to what she was saying. And that is why I sought out movies like Out of Darkness that came out when I was in college, because I was basically trying to find out how other families dealt with having a loved one with mental illness because I did not know what to do. It was years later with my family and I, you know, kind of joined forces to be advocates and to be there for my mom. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:03:14] Corey Minor Smith’s mother had problems. Neither she nor her mother understood. At 13, her mother was diagnosed with manic depression and schizophrenia. When she was 15, her mother attacked her with a pair of scissors. To make matters worse, both her parents experienced demons so severe that led them down the path to drugs. Many African-Americans had trouble recognizing the signs and symptoms of a mental health problem, leading to underestimating the effects and impact of mental illness. Some may think of depression as the blues or something to snap out of. That’s why it’s important to seek professional help when you suspect something is wrong. As a child, Minor Smith didn’t know what to do, and it was not until she became an adult that she really was able to help her mother. Corey Minor Smith [00:04:03] I was born in Canton, Ohio. I’ve also lived in Houston, Texas, and South Vallejo, California, and currently I am back in Canton, Ohio. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:04:14] And tell us about the many high schools that that you attended. Corey Minor Smith [00:04:20] Wow. Is really a the many schools that I attended was a over 1414 that I remember. And as far as high schools, it was a total of two, but that’s among the three states. So it was a total of 14 schools, eight households and three different states of which my life has been lived. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:04:41] We’re going to get into some of the book before we start speaking to your passion of mental health. What lessons thus far or lessons you learned living in two different household and two different locales? Corey Minor Smith [00:04:58] Well, it’s eight different households, and what I learned that was important is just understanding the rules of wherever you are and being able to adapt to whatever environment that you’re in. And I say that because I not only live with my parents. And grandmothers, but also cousins and people who were not related to me at all. And it was not through the foster care system, but I call it community care, because there were people who took me in that did not have to. They were under no type of court order or direction of job and family services. They did not receive any type of assistance for me. So I do truly thank God for those who took me in when they did not have to do so. So that’s a main lesson, being adaptable, being able to relate to where you are, understand the rules and obligations and your responsibility in whatever aspect of your life, whether it’s the classroom, your work office, the boardroom. You have to understand the dynamics of that particular place and be able to adapt. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:06:01] Having such young parents, did you understand what was going on? Corey Minor Smith [00:06:07] No. I do recall in preschool that a lot of my classmates were amazed that my parents were so much younger than their parents. And so that’s where it kind of opened my eyes to it. You know, at such a young age in preschool, I don’t even know why we were talking about our parents ages. But I knew then that I had young parents just because my classmates talked about it. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:06:29] In the book, you talk about thinking and becoming a lawyer. Tell us that story. Corey Minor Smith [00:06:37] Well, there’s actually three distinct events that I recall. One, at the age of 15, having to have the court decide my life. And that was in regards to where I was going to live. And at that point that morning, I woke up wanting so badly to go into the courtroom and seeing that person in the black robe, seeing the people in the suits and understanding and knowing what their jobs were. Unfortunately, we were never called into the courtroom. My whole life was decided without us even being in there. So I didn’t learn that day. But then in high school, I was assigned to the local municipal court for a summer job program. And then I was able to work directly with the people in the black robes, i.e. the judges, as well as work with those individuals that were in the suit, i.e., the attorneys. And I knew then that I wanted to be a lawyer. So that’s the second incident or event. The third is an encounter with law enforcement. I remember being pulled over and I felt so degraded in the way that one of the officers talked to me. And I felt like at that very moment, I wanted to know what my rights were. And I wanted to go to law school, learn what rights are, and to come back and tell everybody what their rights are in case they’re ever confronted in the way that I was confronted. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:07:59] How did you happen to attend Bowling Green for undergrad? Corey Minor Smith [00:08:02] Bowling Green State University, quite honestly, because it was just far enough away, but just close enough to home to help me to develop my independence in my life. And I really, really enjoyed my time at Bowling Green State University. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:08:17] Tell us about being torn between your two parents. I mean, you stay with your dad and also you stay with your mom. But I think dad was the fun guy. Corey Minor Smith [00:08:27] Well, I wouldn’t necessarily. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:08:28] Say he was a fun. Corey Minor Smith [00:08:30] Guy. It was more so because it provided the image of a nuclear family in that he had a wife and she had a child and I could see a family that I wanted. So I knew at nine when I went to live with my dad the first time that I wanted a family like that versus when I was with my mother, you know, she was a single mother working two jobs with hardly home. I was a latchkey kid and home a lot, you know, by myself. So I just preferred the family atmosphere and chose to live in California whenever I could. But ultimately, that’s where a lot of the negative behavior that I engaged in took place. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:09:12] How did television influence what you thought family life should be like? Corey Minor Smith [00:09:17] Well, again, looking at that nuclear family, a lot of what we see is on television. And for me, it was Leave It to Beaver and Gidget. And although Gidget was in the single family, single parent household. It just showed me like, I don’t know, morals, standards, rules of society. And I just embraced it and tried to follow it. And, you know, until I met the real world, i.e., in South L.A., California, there was a whole different dynamic that I was involved in on a day to day basis. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:09:50] How did you get to used to how did you end up in Houston for a while? Corey Minor Smith [00:09:55] Well, my mother relocated to Houston in search of better job opportunities. She had some friends that had moved down there and they had encouraged her to come along as well. So when she decided to move to Houston, I that was the first time I went to live with my father. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:10:11] If you’re just joining us, I’m John L. Hanson Jr. and you’re listening to In Black America from KUT Radio. We’re speaking with Corey Minor Smith, author, attorney, singer and transformational speaker. Miss Smith, tell us about writing this book, #Driven. Corey Minor Smith [00:10:28] #Driven took several years, at least ten I knew at the age of 16, i.e once I went through the court system that I was going to write a book. So it started in me then. And as I continue to grow, develop, learn and experience different things, I just continued to write things down. But unfortunately I didn’t do it to the point of making it a book. And I say that because one of the principles that I discuss in the book is preparation. And I remember the first time I met Les Brown, who ultimately wrote the foreword to the book. He made a statement after reading an article about me in our paper, our local newspaper, and he said that I had a story for the world to hear. And that’s the statement on the back of the book. So one day long after he had made this statement, several years afterwards, I contacted him to see if I could use it on my marketing material. And he said, I’ll do better than that. I’ll write the foreword to your book if you want me to. I was so grateful, but at the same time I didn’t have a book. He wanted me to send the first three chapters and I had nothing written. And so it taught me then that you have to be prepared for what you’re asking people to help you with, right? If I wanted him to help me, he was willing to do way more than I asked, but I wasn’t even prepared to receive it. So I say that ultimately to say once you set a goal, you have to take action to reach that goal. And especially if you’re asking other people to come along and help you with reaching your goals. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:11:58] One of your major passions is mental health. Why is that so endearing to you? Corey Minor Smith [00:12:03] It’s endearing to me because I am a child that has a parent, my mother, who is living with severe mental illness, and it attributed to a lot of the experiences that I had that I outlined in my book. But I think it’s important, particularly in the Black community, because we don’t like to talk about it. There’s a lot of negative stigma associated with mental illness. There is a resistance to therapy or, you know, psychiatric treatment. But it’s important if they are resources here in the community to help us and those who are into the church. And I believe that the church should be a resource as well. You know, it doesn’t minimize or negate our Christianity because we rely on outside sources outside of the church or prayer. I strongly encourage people to do it in addition to the church and prayer and to help minimize the stigma associated with having mental illness or having a loved one that’s living with mental illness. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:13:06] Have you been able to put your finger on why is so difficult for us as a people, African-Americans, to actually articulate mental illness in our families? Corey Minor Smith [00:13:19] I think is just something that we are highly aware of but don’t want to talk about. And you can see it just in pop culture. There’s a several movies that have come out over the years, like Out of Darkness that featured or starred Diana Ross. Yes. In the most recent movie that Denzel directed Fences from the Plays by August Wilson, the brother had mental illness. The soloist that starred Jamie Foxx, he portrayed Nathaniel Ayers, who exhibited found a mental illness when he was at the school at Juilliard. The secret she kept that starred Kyla Pratt and it was featured on TV one. But she portrayed a lawyer who then became an elected official who started showing signs of mental illness during her legal career. And then in Soul Food, the HBO Uncle Pete is that family member that a lot of people have. He was the one who stayed in his room. Nobody really communicated with Uncle Pete you so and we all have a person like that in our lives, if not in our own household. And also another one. It really portrayed a serious mental illness with Frankie and Alice with Halle Berry. Right. And these are real situations and we know that they’re there. I advocate for us to talk about it, to understand it. There are resources available and for us to actually use the resources that are available. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:14:42] When you talk about mental illness, you also talk about some celebrities that have openly expressed their problems with mental illness. Corey Minor Smith [00:14:53] Yes. Yes. I think that helps in our society for some reason. You know, we we really look up to celebrities. We put them on some type of pedestal. And once they announce that there’s some real aspect to their life, something that we relate to, we’re able to better accept that particular issue. And I have found. And in regards to mental illness such as Keyon Dooling, a former NBA player, he recently talked about his duties and being in a mental health institution when he had a mental breakdown based on something that triggered him that he didn’t know he suppressed. Kevin Love, another NBA player, openly talks about his dealings with anxiety. Catherine Zeta Jones, popular actress living with bipolar Prince Harry. He talks about his depression after his mother’s death. There’s just a number of individuals, even Jenifer Lewis, famous Black actress, most recently on Black-Ish. She talks about her living with bipolar and depression for over 20 years. So this is a real thing. There are real resources, and we should not be ashamed in having it as a part of our lives, whether we are dealing with it ourselves or we have a loved one living with mental illness. John L. Hanson Jr. [00:16:11] According to what you’ve written in the book, your mom began experiencing one expression that they are spying on us, li…

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