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    Christianity

    Gospel Tangents Podcast

    A 360-degree view of Mormonism. We interview the best Mormon scholars, scientists, and clergy from all restoration branches, including LDS, Community of Christ, Strangites, Bickertonites, Temple Lot, Remnant, etc.

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    Copyright: © 2019 Gospel Tangents - All Rights Reserved

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    Latest Episodes:
    How Interracial Marriage Fueled the LDS Priesthood Ban 1847-1852 (Rick B) Dec 16, 2025
    Show notes

    Interracial Marriage is critical to the reasons for a priesthood/temple ban on black LDS Church members. For many years, the official position of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS) was that "it is not known precisely why, how, or when this restriction [on the priesthood for male members of African descent] began in the church.” However, historical research utilizing early records suggests that the origins of the ban are quite specific, pointing to a confluence of events involving race and interracial sexual relations (often called "amalgamation" or "miscegenation" at the time) that served as the primary catalyst. This was my first attempt at Mormon history scholarship and was a presentation I gave in 2012 at Sunstone outlining when, why, and how the ban began. Marguerite Driessen, former faculty at BYU was the respondent. Were you aware of this? https://youtu.be/V3DtkTfLazM Don’t miss our other conversations on the priesthood ban: https://gospeltangents.com/mormon_history/racial-priesthood-temple-ban/ Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved 0:00 Meet Stassi Cram Priesthood Before the Prejudice (1830–1846) Contradicting later restrictions, evidence shows that Black men held the priesthood and participated in temple ordinances during the earliest decades of the Church. Black Pete, the first Black convert, was baptized in 1830 and served a mission in Ohio, likely performing baptisms in January 1831. Elijah Abel, perhaps the most famous early Black Mormon, was ordained an Elder and then a Seventy in 1836, received his washing and anointing ordinance in the Kirtland Temple, and participated in baptisms for the dead in the 1840s. Joseph Ball was ordained a high priest and served as a branch president in Lowell, Massachusetts, after Joseph Smith's death in 1844. Ball was also slated to receive his temple endowment in Nauvoo in 1845. Walker Lewis, baptized in 1843, was ordained an Elder by William Smith, and was later referred to by Brigham Young in 1847 as "one of the best elders an African in Lowell," [Massachusetts.] Furthermore, marriage between Black and white members was not automatically prohibitive; John Teague, a white Irishman, joined the church in 1842 with his Black wife, Evelyn Wilbur, and John was ordained a priest and then an elder. These facts confirm that no formal priesthood restrictions existed before 1847. Interracial Marriage Crisis of 1847 The shift from granting the priesthood to prohibiting it appears to have been driven by the highly visible, controversial interracial relationships of two Black elders in 1846 and 1847. Warner McCary and Interracial Polygamy: McCary, a freed slave who claimed to be part Indian, was baptized by Apostle Orson Hyde in 1846. Some believe he was ordained an Elder, but this is disputed. In 1847, McCary married Lucy Stanton, a white woman, with Orson Hyde performing the wedding. McCary later caused outrage in Winter Quarters by engaging in "sealing ceremonies" with white women that included sexual intercourse witnessed by his wife. Church leaders quickly expelled McCary from the camp. Brigham Young expressed concern about "amalgamation," or race mixing, during a meeting where McCary was discussed. Enoch Lewis and the Mixed-Race Child: Simultaneously, in Massachusetts, Enoch Lewis (son of Elder Q. Walker Lewis) married Matilda Webster, a white woman, in 1846, and they had a mixed-race infant girl in 1847. Mission president William Applebee was so disgusted upon meeting the couple and their child that he wrote a dismayed report to Brigham Young asking if it was "the order of God to be tolerated in this church to ordain negroes to the priesthood” and allow amalgamation. When Brigham Young received Applebee's report in October 1847, he responded strongly, stating that when Black and White people "mingle seed it is death to all" and that if they were far away from non-Mormons, they would "all be killed.” Following these cases, Brigham Young privately claimed that "black-white sexual relations were against the law of God and advocated death to all who participated.” This reaction was fueled by a desire to stop interracial marriage & led to the institutional restriction. The ban was publicly affirmed on February 15, 1852, when Brigham Young addressed the Utah territorial legislature and espoused the Curse of Cain doctrine, stating that the mark of Cain "is seen in the face of every negro on the earth" and declaring that any man "having one drop of seed of Cain in him cannot hold the priesthood.” Elephant in the Room: Racism While interracial relationships may have been the catalyst that triggered the ban, many argue that this analysis ignores the underlying issue: pre-existing racial prejudice. Marguerite Driessen notes, "interracial marriage can cause no problems and it can result in no bad consequences at all unless there's already racial prejudice to begin with.” The underlying racism allowed church leaders to: Ignore precedents like Elijah Abel’s ordination. Contort accepted doctrine to justify exclusion. For example, the Second Article of Faith states that humans will be punished for their own sins, not Adam's transgression, yet the priesthood ban relied on the "curse of Cain," effectively punishing Black individuals for the sins of an ancestor. The notion of "accursed lineage" derived from the Book of Abraham's account of Egyptus, which was used to justify denying saving ordinances based solely on lineage, a factor over which people have "no agency or control.” Thus, the events of 1847-1852 did not create the prejudice, but rather offered a convenient, concrete focus for leaders to impose restrictions that many members and leaders were already culturally inclined to accept. The ban was the result of church policy, not doctrine, and was maintained because the congregation was unwilling to fully accept equality until the 1978 revelation ended the restriction.


    *Blacks, Women & Priesthood in LeBaronism (Jacob Vidrine 13 of 13) Dec 15, 2025
    Show notes

    Can women hold priesthood in LeBaron Mormon fundamentalism? Jacob Vidrine from Church of the Firstborn surprised me with his answer about women & priesthood! We also finish our conversation about the race ban in Brigham Young & Joseph Smith's time. Check out our conversation, but it is only available to newsletter subscribers. Sign up at https://gospeltangents.com/newsletter! https://youtu.be/Xg9nt_4xu9M Don’t miss our other conversations with Jacob: https://gospeltangents.com/people/jacob-vidrine Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Nuance in the Priesthood Ban The discussion explores the often-simplified views of Brigham Young's stance on race and slavery. While Brigham Young did articulate strong, lineage-based priesthood restrictions and opposed interracial marriage, he did not support slavery in the Utah Territory. Historically, it is argued that Young wanted to enact a form of gradual emancipation, aligning with Joseph Smith's earlier ideas about compensating slave owners by selling public lands. For fundamentalists, this nuanced view helps frame Young's motivations for restricting the priesthood not as personal hatred or bigotry, but as a form of "benevolent racism," rooted in a belief in lineage-based restrictions. The conversation addresses the theological challenge presented by the Second Article of Faith ("men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression") when discussing generational restrictions like Cain's curse. This is often reconciled by fundamentalists who argue that the denial of priesthood is tied to actions in the pre-existence (citing Alma 13), or by noting that the Bible and Doctrine and Covenants contain references to both generational blessings and cursings (D&C 121). Ultimately, they view priesthood primarily as a responsibility conferred by God, rather than a right or privilege earned solely in mortality. Matriarchs, Eldresses, Women & Priesthood Perhaps the most unexpected element of LeBaronite theology is the authority granted to women. Contrary to many fundamentalist groups, the Church of the Firstborn tradition believes that women hold priesthood authority. This authority stems from Nauvoo temple rituals, where Joseph Smith was seen as bringing women into the priesthood, often leading to the belief that the Relief Society was intended to be a parallel priesthood organization. Ross LeBaron ordained women as matriarchs, granting them temple authority similar to kings and priests (queens and priestesses). Fred Collier advanced this idea, believing women could be ordained to lower priesthood offices. For instance, Jacob Vidrine’s wife was ordained an eldress at age 16. While men typically bless and pass the sacrament, women are authorized to bless by the laying on of hands (blessings of faith), a practice continued from early Mormonism. Furthermore, if circumstances require it (such as the death of a husband), a wife could administer the sacrament to her family. This entire structure emphasizes the patriarchal order as a family organization, requiring the full, active participation of both men and women. Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved


    Christmas Special! When Was Christ Born? (Rick B) Dec 15, 2025
    Show notes

    When was Christ born? I held a livestream to tackle some of the most enduring mysteries surrounding the Christmas story, diving deep into scholarly debates concerning the timing of Christ’s birth, the nature of the Star of Bethlehem, and the identity and traditions surrounding the Wise Men. The discussion also included a giveaway of a free copy of Sand Tanner's book, Lighthouse, authored by Ronald Huggins. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3d0hOvJoXQc Don’t miss our other conversations about Christmas: https://gospeltangents.com/lds_theology/christmas/ Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved The Great Dating Debate: When Was Christ Born? The discussion began by addressing the fact that the calendar we use today, created by the 6th-century monk Dionysius Exiguus. He mistakenly placed Christ’s birth several years too late. There is no Year Zero. Modern scholars generally agree that Herod the Great died in 4 BC, a crucial historical marker, meaning Jesus could not have been born as late as 1 BC because Herod would have been dead for three or four years by then. Dr. Jeffrey Chadwick proposes that December of 5 BC is the correct birth month. However, Dr. Thomas Wayment argues that biblical writers like Matthew and Luke were composing gospels, not history, and were unconcerned with precise details, suggesting that historical data only allows us to know the date within a year or two, and certainly not within a specific month. Adding to the complexity is the mention of a census in Luke 2, which is historically problematic, as the census conducted by Quirinius (Cyrenius) is typically placed around 6 AD, about 10 years after Herod’s death, creating a significant timeline contradiction. Explaining the Star of Bethlehem The question of what caused the Star of Bethlehem led to an examination of several astronomical and scientific theories, particularly in the context of both the Bible (Matthew 2) and the Book of Mormon (3rd Nephi 1). Information comes from several sources, including the 2004 documentary called Mystery of the Three Kings by Questar Entertainment. Planetary Alignment: Astronomer Michael Molnar proposed that the star was actually an occultation where the moon passed in front of Jupiter, a theory based on Babylon's astrological beliefs concerning the birth dates of divine kings. Solar Eclipse: Another possibility, suggested by Jerry Grover, is a solar eclipse which occurred in 6 BC, a date near the proposed birth time. In Mesopotamia, eclipses were frequently associated with the rising of a new king or the death of an old king, which would explain why Herod was troubled. The eclipse was rare, rising in Mesoamerica and setting as a partial eclipse in Persia, where the Wise Men were thought to originate. Coronal Mass Ejection (CME): Grover also offered the idea of a CME (a massive ejection of plasma from the sun hitting Earth's magnetosphere). This event could cause the northern lights (auroras) to become supercharged and move far south, appearing as "weird domes and other shapes in Mesoamerica". This theory is particularly interesting because it could scientifically explain the Book of Mormon account that the night became "as light as day all night long" in the American Hemisphere, while the phenomenon might not have been noticed in the Middle East. Furthermore, the sign may have been accompanied by a crackling or hissing sound, as ions drop and release their charge in the atmosphere. Supernovas and comets are generally dismissed as options because they are either too short-lived or were historically seen as signs of impending doom. The Wise Men: Identity, Gifts, and Legacy The Wise Men (Magi or Magoi) were likely astrologers, healers, and dream readers from the east, specifically the Parthian/Persian Empire (modern Iran/Iraq area.) Their arrival in Jerusalem would have been concerning to Herod, especially since they were Persians entering Roman-controlled territory. The word Magoi is the same word used for magician or sorcerer. They may have been followers of the Zoroastrian religion, which is monotheistic and shares beliefs with Judaism, such as a belief in resurrection and a coming savior. Zoroastrian astronomers may have recognized the confluence of Jupiter and Saturn in 7 BC as a sign of a new king in Israel. The three traditional gifts carried profound meaning: Gold represented kingship. Frankincense represented divinity or God. Myrrh was extremely valuable (worth seven times the weight of gold) and represented healing; its use in embalming also served as a foreshadowing of Jesus’s eventual death. The Magi are celebrated in many traditions, particularly in Spanish-speaking countries, where January 6th is known as Three Kings Day24,25. On this day, which occurs 12 days after Christmas, presents are exchanged, left by the Three Kings rather than Santa Claus. Legends regarding the Magi's relics and tombs are found across the globe, including claims in Sava, Iran (recorded by Marco Polo); Axum, Ethiopia; Milan, Italy, and the most famous location in the West, the Cologne Cathedral in Germany. Don’t miss our other conversations about Christmas: https://gospeltangents.com/lds_theology/christmas/ Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved


    Why Mormon Fundamentalists Restrict Blacks (Jacob Vidrine 12 of 13) Dec 13, 2025
    Show notes

    Many Mormon fundamentalists restrict blacks from joining despite the 1978 revelation that allowed black men to hold the priesthood. This is considered a landmark moment in LDS history, but many in Mormon fundamentalists believe this 1978 revelation marked the moment the mainstream Church lost its essential authority. This theological break, rooted in Brigham Young's fiery declarations about race and priesthood lineage, is why most fundamentalist groups reject modern LDS temple work. https://youtu.be/Rp-2f0Uxuh4 Don’t miss our other conversations with Jacob: https://gospeltangents.com/people/jacob-vidrine Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Why Black Priesthood Revelation Nullified Authority for Fundamentalists The 1978 revelation that allowed black men to hold the priesthood is considered a landmark moment in LDS history, but for many in Mormon fundamentalism, this decision marked the moment the mainstream Church lost its essential authority. This theological break, rooted in Brigham Young's fiery declarations about race and priesthood lineage, is why most fundamentalist groups reject modern LDS temple work. The Conditional Priesthood Restrict Blacks For groups like the Ross LeBaronites and others who separated from the LDS Church, the 1978 revelation essentially nullified the Church’s priesthood authority. This perspective relies heavily on an address given by Brigham Young in 1852 to the territorial legislature. In this discourse, Brigham Young articulated a powerful condition for maintaining the priesthood: "If we were to... come and decide that it was right to mingle with the seed of Cain and make them partake of all the blessings that we have then on that day and hour the priesthood is taken from the church and God leaves us to our fate". Because of Brigham Young's strong language, many fundamentalists are "very reticent to consider that Brigham could be wrong" about the priesthood ban. Therefore, they view the 1978 revelation as fulfilling the condition for the priesthood being withdrawn. The Temple Barrier The rejection of the 1978 decision has direct implications for temple work. Most fundamentalist groups will not use the LDS Temple because they feel its authority is no longer valid. This view is so central that it applies even to other fundamentalist splinter groups. The Missouri temple, for example, is noted as the only fundamentalist community that has rejected and lifted the racial teachings, but this decision causes most other fundamentalists to have "reservations about using their temple" for the "same reason" they reject the LDS temple. They view the temple authority as having been compromised. Was the Ban Revealed in Nauvoo? While some historians argue that the priesthood ban was a pragmatic decision starting around 1847, possibly catalyzed by incidents involving black men like William McCary and Enoch Lewis—events that prompted Brigham Young to want to put this to a stop. Other evidence suggests the doctrine may have predated the Utah period. For some, it is difficult to accept that Brigham Young "radically depart[ed] from Joseph Smith" and suddenly invented a racist doctrine. Jacob points to historical sources have fueled this debate: Nauvoo Lineage Emphasis: There are indications that an emphasis on lineage and blood connected to priesthood started emerging in Nauvoo. Brigham Young, in 1845, reportedly told the high priests quorum that many elders couldn't hold the keys of the kingdom until their "blood changes and they become the right lineage". George Q. Cannon's Diaries: Diaries released in 2016 or 2017 show that George Q. Cannon discussed the priesthood ban in the 1890s, stating that he was taught the ban as a young boy in Nauvoo by John Taylor, suggesting the restriction was in place earlier than commonly dated. Elijah Abel's Restrictions: In June 1843, apostles restricted the preaching of Elijah Abel—a black elder who held the priesthood—to only his "own race". This belief that the restriction was revealed in Nauvoo allows fundamentalists to reconcile the ban with Joseph Smith’s period while maintaining Brigham Young’s authority, even if they struggle with the theological implications. The key takeaway for them is that Brigham Young, whether right or wrong about the lineage-based restrictions, was not acting out of hatred or bigotry, but rather out of a form of "benevolent racism"—believing in a lineage-based restriction without personal malicious intent. The result is a complex theological landscape where adherence to what is perceived as the divinely revealed structure of the early Church necessitates the rejection of the mainstream church’s post-1978 authority and its ordinances. For more information regarding the beginnings of the ban, check out Dr Paul Reeve’s amazing research. Here is a link to Jacob's paper: TheOriginofthePriesthoodBan. Don’t miss our other conversations with Jacob: https://gospeltangents.com/people/jacob-vidrine Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved


    From Adam-God to Adoption: Jacob Vidrine’s Discovery of Polygamy, Rebaptism, & LeBaronism (11 of 13) Dec 10, 2025
    Show notes

    The path to LeBaronism began when the speaker gained a testimony of the Adam-God doctrine, then accepted principles like rebaptism, eventually leading to a testimony of the Law of Adoption and connection with the Church of the Firstborn. https://youtu.be/AYwLSTRuidE Don’t miss our other conversations with Jacob: https://gospeltangents.com/people/jacob-vidrine Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved How LeBaron Group Practices Temple Work Without a Temple The quest for pure priesthood authority and the full restoration of doctrines—from Adam-God to the Law of Adoption—led one believer away from the mainstream LDS church and into the unique world of the Ross LeBaronites and the Church of the Firstborn. This journey highlights the fundamental difference between this fundamentalist group and larger organizations: their focus is on patriarchal authority and the function of ordinances, regardless of location. From Adam-God to Adoption: A Conversion Story The path into the Church of the Firstborn often begins with an intense intellectual and spiritual curiosity about early Mormon theology. For some, this journey began by stumbling upon controversial doctrines, such as the Adam-God doctrine, which posits that God himself established the human family on Earth by leaving celestial glory to deal with mortality. The search for deeper principles led to an online forum around 2014 where various fundamentalist voices converged. It was here that the writings and historical research of Fred Collier became especially influential. Collier was regarded as a key figure in the Church of the Firstborn, working alongside Ross LeBaron (the "religious innovator.") While Ross established the "priesthood foundation", Collier was the "systematizer"—sometimes referred to as a "Bruce R. McConkie of fundamentalism"—who used historical sources and revelations to articulate a coherent system, adding stability to LeBaron's teachings. Collier’s materials, often shared as pamphlets and essays, presented a highly developed priesthood cosmology. Ultimately, this research and theology, especially the doctrine of the Law of Adoption, led to joining Fred Collier’s specific faction of the Church of the Firstborn. Patriarchal Priesthood Structure Unlike the LDS Church, the structure established by Ross LeBaron does not utilize the standard structure of Apostles. Ross acted as the prophet, and the leadership centered on patriarchs. Ross’s major mission was to ordain these patriarchs and establish a patriarchal pattern. When a man was set apart, Ross conferred upon him "all the keys, rights, power, and authority of the patriarchal order of priesthood". This authority was not meant solely for missionary work away from headquarters (like an apostle) but for building a family organization and a patriarchal order. This included the authority to have wives sealed in plural marriage and to adopt sons and families via the Law of Adoption. Ross ordained at least 40 patriarchs during his lifetime, and today, hundreds of people trace their patriarchal authority back to Ross LeBaron. Doing Temple Work in the Mountains One of the most unique aspects of the Church of the Firstborn today is its approach to temple ordinances in the absence of a dedicated temple structure. Historically, Ross LeBaronites—including Tom Green’s and Fred Collier’s groups—performed temple ordinances in homes that were temporarily dedicated for that purpose. This practice takes a cue from Nauvoo, where Joseph Smith performed ordinances in the Red Brick Store and the Mansion House before the Nauvoo Temple was completed. The fundamental idea is that the authority to perform the ordinance is paramount, not the specific physical structure. However, some groups now seek a dedicated, even if temporary, sacred space. The current approach involves setting up a temporary tabernacle in the mountains to perform the endowment ceremony and other temple ordinances. This method is favored over the home-based work, drawing inspiration from Brigham Young, who once gave endowments on Ensign Peak in 1849, citing comments that the poor could receive their endowments in the mountains. While performing ordinances way up in the mountains presents logistical challenges, such as lacking running water and electricity, adherents find that having this dedicated space allows for a "really spiritual powerful temple experience". Learning from Cautionary Tales The movement is not without its difficulties. The fragmentation within the Church of the Firstborn, including the separation from Fred Collier’s group in 2019-2020, often stemmed from serious issues related to sexual abuse. A major challenge within fundamentalism generally is a reluctance to report abuse to law enforcement, fueled by a defense mechanism mentality and distrust of a government perceived to be hostile toward their practice of polygamy. However, some families separate from these larger groups, seeing the importance of protecting their community and learning from "cautionary tales"—such as Ross’s doctrinal errors in old age or the issues of abuse in Fred's group—to create a safer continuation of the Church of the Firstborn. Don’t miss our other conversations with Jacob: https://gospeltangents.com/people/jacob-vidrine Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved


    Notorious Polygamist: Tom Green’s TV Family, Child Polygamy, & Utah Prosecution (Jacob Vidrine 10 of 13) Dec 07, 2025
    Show notes

    Tom Green gained notoriety for appearing on television with his plural family, which led to Utah prosecuting him after discovering one wife was "very underage," resulting in his conviction for child polygamy and welfare fraud, or child rape according to one account, and a prison sentence https://youtu.be/KkQlU3KVllM Don’t miss our other conversations with Jacob: https://gospeltangents.com/people/jacob-vidrine Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Tom Green: Polygamy, Prison, & Quest for Community Tom Green, a controversial figure in Mormon fundamentalism, was a key claimant to the succession of Ross LeBaron, leader of the Church of the Firstborn. Green stuck with LeBaron until his death in 1996. On his deathbed, LeBaron reportedly did not name a clear successor but charged both Tom Green and Jerry Barlow to carry on his work. Green leveraged this instruction, claiming he had received higher temple ordinances from Ross, thereby being "anointed and appointed". Green briefly formed a group spanning the late 1990s into the early 2000s, attempting to unite Ross’s followers under his leadership. Green achieved notoriety by making numerous radio and television appearances about polygamy, frequently showcasing his plural family. Tom Green's Prison Sentence However, his public profile led to his downfall when it was discovered that one of his wives was underage. The state of Utah prosecuted him for child polygamy and welfare fraud, seemingly intending to "make an example of him," particularly because of his media exposure. Green was convicted in 2002 of child rape and served a prison sentence, which lasted five years. He was released on parole on August 7, 2007. After his incarceration, his group largely fell apart. Attempts at Succession Tom Green sought community, particularly as his children grew and needed partners for marriage. He decided to join the Kingston Group, viewing them as a successful example of a united order and plural marriage, noting their economic success in business despite negative press. He maintained, however, that he never recanted the authority he had received from Ross LeBaron. Green remained on parole for at least 14 years before dying from COVID-19 at age 72 on February 28, 2021. Green represents one of several factions that emerged after LeBaron’s death, alongside the independents and the group led by Fred Collier. LeBaron's mission centered on ordaining patriarchs and establishing a patriarchal pattern, an effort that continues today through independent groups and men who trace their authority back to Ross and Tom Green. Fred Collier, another key figure who worked closely with Ross (the religious innovator) as the one who "wrote it up" and added stability through systematization, also claimed succession after separating from Ross in 1983. Tom was one of the best known polygamists in the early 2000's due to his quest for publicity. It is likely the reason that other fundamentalists avoid publicity, as they see that it often brings more trouble than it is worth. Don’t miss our other conversations with Jacob: https://gospeltangents.com/people/jacob-vidrine Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved


    How Fred Collier Defined the Ross LeBaronite Movement (Jacob Vidrine 9 of 13) Dec 04, 2025
    Show notes

    Fred Collier is one of the patriarchs of Ross LeBaron's Church of the Firstborn. Fred tried to take over after Ross's death and even converted Tom Green, an apostle in a rival group, "The Branch." We'll discuss more about how Fred's group descends from Ross LeBaron. Check out our conversation... https://youtu.be/nTOU2ZYkNco Don’t miss our other conversations with Jacob: https://gospeltangents.com/people/jacob-vidrine Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission While the core authority of the Utah-based Church of the Firstborn traced back through Ross Wesley LeBaron’s unique patriarchal lineage derived from Benjamin F. Johnson, the movement's doctrines and missionary success were significantly shaped by one influential follower: Fred Collier. Collier, who converted to fundamentalism in 1970, was described not as a professional historian but as a "self-trained historian" who dedicated his efforts to researching early Mormon history, ultimately providing the historical bedrock for Ross LeBaron's claims. The Partnership: History, Mysteries, and the Patriarchal Order Collier joined a core group of "historian followers" drawn to Ross LeBaron because they felt there was something "solid to his claims.” Ross’s ministry focused less on concentrating authority (like other fundamentalist groups) and more on disseminating a "patriarchal order of priesthood.” Ross liked to "delve into the mysteries.” This included embracing doctrines like plural marriage and the Adam-God doctrine. Collier expanded on these ideas, even writing a lengthy paper, The Adam God Doctrine in the Bible, attempting to find support for the concept in both the Old and New Testaments. Collier used his historical skills not just for study but for effective missionary work. He was instrumental in helping the Church of the Firstborn articulate its beliefs and authority, serving as a contrast to Ross's own unorthodox methods: Eccentric Ministry: Ross spent over 20 years on radio shows like KSXX, where he would "clown around" or be controversial and "silly" to attract attention before sharing his message, mirroring unusual methods sometimes used by Old Testament prophets. Historical Converts: Ross's eccentric style generally did not attract serious religious followers. Collier, however, converted "quite a number of people" by gathering copious historical research and sharing it. Collier also gained notoriety in historical circles for publishing works like Unpublished Revelations, which was valued because it stuck strictly to historical facts without conflating them with fundamentalist folklore or bias. Restoration of the Law of Adoption One of Collier’s most significant historical discoveries that shaped the Church of the Firstborn was the concept of the Law of Adoption. Collier found the principle, common during the early Nauvoo/Utah pioneer periods (where men and families would be "sealed to men" in father-son relationships to establish a celestial family structure on Earth), through the published diaries of John D. Lee. When Collier presented this to Ross, Ross embraced it fully. Thereafter, the Law of Adoption became a core aspect of the Church of the Firstborn’s structure, requiring anyone receiving patriarchal priesthood to enter into adoption covenants. The LeBaron-ites were likely the first fundamentalists to practice adoption since Wilford Woodruff officially discontinued it in the LDS Church in 1894. Schism Over Celestial Love The partnership between Ross (the innovative prophet) and Collier (the systematizing historian/writer) eventually fractured over a crucial doctrinal difference in 1983. Collier had received a vision which convinced him that the essential principle distinguishing a celestial person was "celestial love"—a selfless love for others and a "total commitment" characterized by losing oneself in service. Collier believed that the lower terrestrial kingdom was populated by people who were honorable but were motivated by seeking their "own reward and aggrandizement.” Collier wanted Ross to adopt this principle of selfless love, believing that the movement under Ross felt too loose and individualistic. However, Ross disagreed vehemently, holding the perspective that competition was a big driving force of the universe. In the ensuing debate, Ross allegedly stated that Christ died for his "own glory" for his own exaltation, which Collier felt was blasphemy against the Atonement. Less than a month later, Ross changed his priesthood teachings entirely, leading Collier to conclude that Ross had fallen into doctrinal apostasy. Fred Collier's Enduring Legacy Collier separated from Ross, going on to lead his own group (which peaked at several hundred followers in 1992.) Although Ross had never formally appointed a successor, he acknowledged that Collier was the most likely candidate, having "done more to build up our system and the work than anyone else.” Collier continued his work as a prolific author, writing numerous pamphlets and books. His historical research, focusing on early temple doctrine, priesthood, and the Adam-God doctrine, has since "permeated fundamentalism," with followers of different groups utilizing his historical scholarship. Don’t miss our other conversations with Jacob: https://gospeltangents.com/people/jacob-vidrine Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission


    Eccentric Prophet’s Controversial Radio Ministry & Authority Claim Jacob Vidrine (8 of 13) Dec 01, 2025
    Show notes

    Ross Wesley LeBaron played the role of eccentric prophet. The second oldest son of patriarch Alma Dayer LeBaron Sr., carved a distinct path in Utah. Ross founded the Church of the Firstborn. His teachings presented a unique fundamentalist cosmology focused on distributing sacred authority rather than concentrating it, emphasizing that "the honor is in the work, not the title.” https://youtu.be/fHYDKiaoZ5o Don’t miss our other conversations with Jacob: https://gospeltangents.com/people/jacob-vidrine Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission Authority Above the Church: Dissemination vs. Concentration Ross LeBaron's theology centered on the concept of a higher order of priesthood existing "above the [LDS] Church" structure. This authority, which he called the Patriarchal Priesthood, originated with the keys restored by Moses, Elias, and Elijah in the Kirtland Temple (D&C 110). This higher priesthood manifested in the Nauvoo period as the authority to make men "kings and priests" (and women "queens and priestesses"), often referred to as the fullness of the priesthood. Ross taught that this authority should be widely distributed among worthy men, acting as a check and balance against unrighteous leadership. He contrasted this view sharply with the prevailing fundamentalist models (like the Woolley line, which later split into FLDS and AUB) that focused on concentrating supreme authority either in a single presiding figure (the "one man rule") or a small "Council of Seven". Ross felt the stability of the priesthood lay in this dissemination of authority, allowing many men to hold the highest keys for their own families. Ross LeBaron's Priesthood Claim Ross's authority traced back to his grandfather, Benjamin F. Johnson, a close confidant of Joseph Smith and the last living original member of the Council of Fifty. Johnson claimed that Joseph Smith had authorized him to teach the principles of plural marriage, endowments, garments, and the Second Anointing "when I'm led to do so". This unique claim bypassed Ross's father (Benjamin Franklin LeBaron) and passed to his grandfather, Alma Dayer LeBaron Sr. ("Dayer".) Ross received a patriarchal blessing and the "keys, rights, and authority of the patriarchal order of priesthood" from his father, Dayer, in 1950. Although Dayer died without naming a clear successor, leaving behind a succession crisis, Ross eventually received a revelation confirming that the patriarchal priesthood he held was the fullness of the Melchizedek Priesthood. He subsequently concluded that, as Joseph Smith's birthright, he was the "one anointed and appointed" referenced in D&C 132:73. Eccentric Prophet’s Ministry & the Second Anointing Ross's ministry in Utah often relied on eccentric methods to gain public notice. He spent over 20 years on radio shows (like KSXX) attempting to be controversial or "silly" (clowning around) to draw attention before sharing his message, mirroring unusual methods sometimes used by Old Testament prophets. A crucial element of Ross's authority was the belief that the patriarchal keys authorized him to perform temple ordinances, including the Second Anointing. Reviving the Second Anointing: Ross and his early follower, Robert Eaby (a former scribe for the AUB Council and participant in Musser's School of the Prophets), became pioneers in researching and restoring the Second Anointing outside of the LDS Church. Robert Eaby, who had learned about the ordinance through connections to early prayer circles, was able to assist in administering the endowments and then the Second Anointing, making them the first fundamentalists known to perform the ordinance (circa 1967/1968). Historical Context: This revival occurred during a period when the ordinance was largely discontinued within the mainstream LDS Church, having been generally halted by Heber J. Grant in the late 1920s and not widely performed again until it was revived by Spencer W. Kimball in the 1970s. Ross also stressed individual accountability and agency. When a follower sought revelatory guidance from him regarding a major life decision, Ross challenged him: "Why are you afraid of taking responsibility for yourself? Don't your knees work? Go to God yourself and get revelation for yourself." This focus on the individual patriarch holding authority for their own family underscored Ross's belief that while leaders were fallible, the highest order of priesthood could and should be accessed by all worthy individuals. Don’t miss our other conversations with Jacob: https://gospeltangents.com/people/jacob-vidrine Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission


    Evil Ervil LeBaron (Jacob Vidrine 7 of 8) Nov 28, 2025
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    Evil Ervil LeBaron was a killer. He killed not only his brother Joel LeBaron, but had his wives kill rival Rulon Allred. He was known to have a hit list of others, including President Spencer Kimball of the LDS Church. Jacob Vidrine discusses these events and we'll discuss the recent drug killings to a LeBaron family in Mexico. Check out our conversation... https://youtu.be/23RT8A5HEww Don’t miss our other conversations with Jacob: https://gospeltangents.com/people/jacob-vidrine Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission God’s Executioner: How Ervil LeBaron’s Quest for Authority Led to Murder and Stigma When discussing Mormon fundamentalism, the name LeBaron often conjures images of violence and notoriety, largely due to the actions of Ervil LeBaron. Though the family’s original movement—the Church of the Firstborn—was rooted in unique priesthood claims tracing back to Nauvoo, Ervil’s descent into murder and extremism permanently attached a "stigma" to the LeBaron name. Rise of the Violent Theologian Ervil LeBaron was one of the younger sons of Alma Dayer LeBaron (Dayer) and was initially associated with the Mexico branch of the family, led by his brother Joel LeBaron. Ervil was recognized early on as a key figure in establishing Joel’s church, serving as a great theologian who authored the important pamphlet Priesthood Expounded. Joel rewarded his loyalty by appointing Ervil to the prestigious position of presiding patriarch over their Mexican church, the number two office under Joel. However, Ervil’s rise was quickly marred by corruption. Reports indicated that Ervil began embezzling tithing funds and had a reputation for being predatory, attempting to get all the wives for himself and generally aggrandizing himself through his authority. By 1970, the controversy surrounding Ervil's financial and moral conduct grew so severe that many members and leaders within Joel’s church felt the need to curb his influence. Schism and the Birth of Violence In response to Ervil's excesses, Joel made the drastic decision to strip Ervil of all authority in the church. Ervil, angered by the loss of his prestige and power, convinced himself that he was justified in killing Joel for taking away his authority. This marked the schism, leading Ervil to form his own group, the Church of the Lamb of God. Ervil's actions escalated quickly into violence. He claimed a radical, theocratic justification for his subsequent murders: he asserted that he held the civil authority over the earth as "God's appointed agent". Based on this claim, Ervil believed he could kill anyone who was "treasonous against his government". Ervil ordered Dan Jordan, one of his followers, to murder Joel LeBaron, which occurred in 1972. This assassination cut off the head of Joel’s organization, as Joel died without appointing a successor to his highest office. Infamous Hit List After murdering his brother, Ervil was determined to eliminate any remaining opposition. He began threatening other fundamentalists and created a massive hit list. He was reportedly concerned about Verlan LeBaron, who had been appointed by Joel to replace Ervil as the presiding patriarch. Verlan was forced to go into hiding for nearly a decade to avoid Ervil's retribution. To draw Verlan out of hiding, Ervil devised a calculated and shocking plan: he ordered the murder of Rulon Allred, the leader of the Allred Group (AUB). Ervil targeted Allred because Verlan had married into Rulon’s family, believing Verlan would attend the funeral. Rulon Allred was assassinated in his doctor's office in 1977. Ervil allegedly sent two of his wives to commit the crime, securing their commitment to his violent cause. Although Verlan was present at Allred's funeral, the overwhelming police presence spooked Ervil's followers, saving Verlan's life. Ervil LeBaron’s End and the Lingering Tragedy Ervil was eventually apprehended in Mexico, extradited, and convicted in 1980 for ordering Allred’s death, receiving a life sentence in Utah State Prison. However, the violence did not end there. Ervil died in prison in 1981 in an apparent suicide. Tragically, just two days after Ervil’s death was discovered, Verlan LeBaron—the man Ervil had spent years trying to kill—died in an auto accident in Mexico City. Several family members and observers suspected that this was not a coincidence, believing it was a sabotage hit ordered by Ervil’s followers, who continued their deadly work even after Ervil’s incarceration. Ervil’s actions permanently "soil[ed] the whole [LeBaron]" family, transforming a unique movement rooted in secret Nauvoo priesthood claims into one synonymous with a twisted quest for power and serial murder. LeBarón and Langford Families Massacre Tragedy continues in Mexico as recently as 2019. Nine people were killed with some burned alive in a car (three women and six children, all of whom held dual US–Mexican citizenship).[3][4] They were members of the LeBaron and Langford families. A drug cartel is believed to be behind the attack.[5][6] In January 2025, a federal judge in Mexico ordered the Attorney General's Office to investigate the massacre as an act of terrorism in Mexico. Don’t miss our other conversations with Jacob: https://gospeltangents.com/people/jacob-vidrine Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission


    Peculiar Mormon Fundamentalist Schisms 1950s (Jacob Vidrine 6 of 8) Nov 25, 2025
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    1950s were a tumultuous time for Mormon polygamists. Not only did police jail many for polygamy, but there were Mormon Fundamentalist Schisms. Many groups including Joseph Musser and the LeBaron families split apart. Jacob Vidrine of the Church of the Firstborn gives more details. Check out our conversation... https://youtu.be/1hdRUUQ8Gv0 Don’t miss our other conversations with Jacob: https://gospeltangents.com/people/jacob-vidrine Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission Dramatic 1955 Schism that Defined the LeBaron Legacy The history of Mormon fundamentalism is filled with contested authority claims, but few are as immediate and dramatic as the split that occurred between Ross and Joel LeBaron in the mid-1950s. This schism not only severed the nascent Church of the Firstborn into two distinct movements but also cemented radically different interpretations of priesthood authority that traced back to Nauvoo. From Mexico to Utah: Quest for the Kingdom Following the death of their father, Alma Dayer LeBaron (Dayer), who had claimed a unique authority line through Benjamin F. Johnson, the family faced a succession crisis. Joel LeBaron and his brothers (including Verlin and Floren) were primarily based in Mexico and had initially affiliated themselves with the Allred Group (AUB), which was the Salt Lake-based faction of the larger Woolley fundamentalist movement after the 1950s split. In 1955, Joel and his brothers traveled to Utah specifically to request funding from the Allred Council to establish a United Order in Mexico. While staying in Utah, they interacted with their brother, Ross Wesley LeBaron, the second oldest son, who had been ministering separately in the Utah area. Ross’s Vision: The Higher Church Ross had received a commission from his father in 1950 to carry on the "patriarchal work". His theology provided a unique perspective in the fundamentalist landscape, teaching that the Church of the Firstborn was not merely a holding pattern for the "out-of-order" LDS Church, but rather a "higher church above the Church of Jesus Christ". Ross argued that the goal was not to "fall back into the church" but to "advance into the church of the firstborn," emphasizing the higher principles of the patriarchal order restored by Moses, Elias, and Elijah in the Kirtland Temple. Ross converted his visiting brothers, Joel and Floren, "back to believing in their father's authority line" and the patriarchal priesthood. Excited, the brothers decided to formally organize a new church5. The September Organization and Contested Authority On September 21, 1955, Ross, Joel, and Floren gathered for an organizational meeting that established the Church of the Firstborn of the Fullness of Times. The minutes of this meeting articulated the specific authority lineage claimed by the family: Joseph Smith passed patriarchal keys to Benjamin F. Johnson, who passed them to Alma LeBaron (Dayer), who conferred them on his sons. In this initial organization: Ross Wesley LeBaron was sustained as the head patriarch, holding the keys and calling received from their father. Ross emphasized that "the honor is in the work, not the title," focusing on the substance of the calling rather than merely claiming specific offices. Joel LeBaron was ordained to the office of president of the Church of the Firstborn of the Fullness of Times. Floren LeBaron was set apart as a counselor. Ross claimed he ordained both Joel and Floren as patriarchs1012. However, this unity was fleeting. Joel’s Claim to the One Mighty and Strong Within approximately a week of the organization, Joel decided to split from Ross. Joel sought a higher, incontrovertible claim to authority to override Ross's position as the patriarch holding the keys. Joel traveled up Farmington Canyon and claimed to receive a revelation or a theophany. He claimed that "no fewer than... 17 or 18 different past prophets" appeared to him on the mountain. Crucially, these messengers allegedly appointed Joel as "the one mighty and strong". This claim directly targeted Ross's earlier teachings; Ross had claimed the birthright of Joseph Smith and described his own work as merely "preparatory work until the one mighty and strong came". By claiming this specific title, Joel effectively trumped Ross's foundational claim and secured his own undisputed position as the highest authority. The dramatic revelation led to a swift separation, with Ross remaining in Utah and Joel returning to Mexico, where he would successfully grow his branch of the Church of the Firstborn of the Fullness of Times to several thousand members, emphasizing a restoration of the Church of Jesus Christ structure (complete with a Quorum of the Twelve Apostles and a High Council), rather than Ross's focus on the higher patriarchal order. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In essence, the split between Ross and Joel LeBaron illustrates a fundamental tension in fundamentalist authority: the conflict between inheriting authority (Ross, the Birthright, the Patriarchal Keys) versus receiving new, definitive revelation (Joel, the Theophany, the One Mighty and Strong). Don’t miss our other conversations with Jacob: https://gospeltangents.com/people/jacob-vidrine Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission


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