TopPodcast.com
Menu
  • Home
  • Top Charts
  • Top Networks
  • Top Apps
  • Top Independents
  • Top Podfluencers
  • Top Picks
    • Top Business Podcasts
    • Top True Crime Podcasts
    • Top Finance Podcasts
    • Top Comedy Podcasts
    • Top Music Podcasts
    • Top Womens Podcasts
    • Top Kids Podcasts
    • Top Sports Podcasts
    • Top News Podcasts
    • Top Tech Podcasts
    • Top Crypto Podcasts
    • Top Entrepreneurial Podcasts
    • Top Fantasy Sports Podcasts
    • Top Political Podcasts
    • Top Science Podcasts
    • Top Self Help Podcasts
    • Top Sports Betting Podcasts
    • Top Stocks Podcasts
  • Podcast News
  • About Us
  • Podcast Advertising
  • Contact
Not in our directory?
Add Show Here
Podcast Equipment
Center

toppodcastlogoOur TOPPODCAST Picks

  • Comedy
  • Crypto
  • Sports
  • News
  • Politics
  • True Crime
  • Business
  • Finance

Follow Us

toppodcastlogoStay Connected

    View Top 200 Chart
    Back to Rankings Page
    Christianity

    Gospel Tangents Podcast

    A 360-degree view of Mormonism. We interview the best Mormon scholars, scientists, and clergy from all restoration branches, including LDS, Community of Christ, Strangites, Bickertonites, Temple Lot, Remnant, etc.

    Advertise

    Copyright: © 2019 Gospel Tangents - All Rights Reserved

    • Apple Podcasts
    • Google Play
    • Spotify

    Latest Episodes:
    Supporting Hard Questions: LDS Faith Journeys Jan 19, 2026
    Show notes

    Rick Bennett and Kurt Francom announce the launch of the Gospel Tangents Network and its new community forum, LDS Faith Journeys.org, designed to support members looking for support with history, doctrine, social issues, etc. The hosts discuss reframing the concept of a "faith crisis" into a "faith journey" to remove shame, with Kurt offering his "scuba gear on a bicycle" analogy to explain how personal trauma or baggage can hinder religious practice. The conversation covers Kurt’s experience as a bishop with a counselor who left the Church, his involvement in Warrior Heart boot camps, and the dangers of publicizing polygamy denial or the book Visions of Glory. Finally, Rick pays tribute to the late podcaster Troy Ables and previews upcoming guests for the network, hopefully including Janice Allred. https://youtu.be/5PayNjM0y1s 00:00 — Introduction and Launch Rick Bennett welcomes Kurt Francom, host of the Leading Saints podcast, to announce the launch of the Gospel Tangents Network. Rick introduces the network's 2nd website, LDSFaithJourneys.org, a forum designed for members to discuss history, doctrine, social issues and other issues where members needs support. 05:00 — "Faith Crisis" vs. "Faith Journeys" Rick and Kurt discuss the terminology used for those struggling with the Church. Kurt argues that the term "Faith Crisis" carries a heavy, negative connotation of brokenness, whereas "Faith Journey" suggests a natural evolution of faith. Kurt emphasizes that avoiding the "crisis" label helps remove shame, which is often a tool of the adversary. Rick hopes people don’t stay in crisis very long and move onto more productive faith journeys. 15:00 — The Scuba Gear Analogy Kurt introduces a metaphor for religious struggle: imagining the Gospel as a functional bicycle that some members try to ride while wearing heavy "scuba gear" (trauma, baggage, or specific upbringing.) He suggests that for some, stepping away or "hitting the reset button" is necessary to remove the gear before they can successfully ride the bike again. 25:00 — A Bishop’s Heartbreak Kurt shares a personal story from his time as a bishop regarding his second counselor, an attorney and capable leader. After reading Richard Bushman’s Rough Stone Rolling in a BYU religion class, the counselor struggled with the "raw and real history" of Joseph Smith and eventually removed his name from Church records. This experience taught Kurt that just because the "standard formula" works for him, it does not mean it works for everyone. 35:00 — Warrior Heart Boot Camps Responding to a listener question, Kurt discusses his involvement with Warrior Heart, a non-denominational Christian men’s retreat. He describes it as a place to "strip away all of the baggage" of faith tradition and allow men to focus solely on their relationship with God. 45:00 — Polygamy Revisionists & Excommunication Rick asks Kurt about the trend of members being excommunicated for claiming Joseph Smith did not practice polygamy. Kurt argues that while people are free to believe what they want, using a public platform to claim Brigham Young was a liar while Joseph was innocent creates a movement the Church must address. Rick adds that D&C 132 and the sealing power are so intertwined that rejecting Joseph’s polygamy creates a massive theological problem. Rick doesn't agree with polygamy revisionists and encourages leaders to avoid taking away membership. He shares a conversation with a Jewish friend who said it is impossible to be excommunicated from the Jewish religion, even for murder. "Let God be the judge." Rick wishes the LDS Church moved closer to that admonition. 55:00 — Visions of Glory A listener asks about the book Visions of Glory. Is it helpful or harmful? Kurt describes it as harmful because it creates unhealthy narratives about the "mechanics of heaven" and end-times obsession. He notes that it consistently sells well, alongside Under the Banner of Heaven, which shows a cultural fascination with these topics. 58:00 — Future Content and Wrap Up Rick hopes to have a future episode involving the Succession Crisis, featuring figures like James Strang and William Bickerton. They conclude by encouraging listeners to register at the new website https://ldsfaithjourneys.org to ask questions and find support.


    Lost Interview with Troy Ables: A Final Tribute Jan 17, 2026
    Show notes

    I was surprised to learn that Troy Ables passed away on Thursday, Jan 15, 2026. In this special episode I’m sharing a previously unpublished interview from October 2020 to honor the memory of Troy Ables, a YouTuber and podcaster known for “The Last Dispensation,” who passed away suddenly around the age of 54. In a reversal of roles, Troy interviews Rick, delving into Rick’s personal history, his views on controversial church topics, and the evolution of Mormon historical transparency. https://youtu.be/l8GdztsUrZU 0:00 Generational Shifts and Literature The conversation highlights the generational differences in how Latter-day Saints engage with church literature. Troy recounts devouring Bruce R. McConkie’s “Mormon Doctrine” and “The Miracle of Forgiveness” as a youth, while I admitted to avoiding them, viewing them as sources of unnecessary guilt or false doctrine. We discuss how the Church has shifted from the politically conservative era of the 1980s to a modern era characterized by greater openness, exemplified by the release of the Gospel Topics Essays. 8:59 Polygamy vs. Sealing A significant portion of the interview focuses on plural marriage. I tried to articulate a clear distinction between the sealing power, which I support and finds beautiful, and the practice of polygamy, which I’m not a fan of. Specific issues such as Joseph Smith’s marriage to Fanny Alger and the secrecy kept from Emma Smith as reasons for discomfort. I don’t agree with the apologetic defense that Joseph was merely sealing families together, noting the sexual component and the sneakiness involved. 11:57 Nuance, History, and "The Middle Way" I maintain my testimony while acknowledging historical difficulties. I have a problem with the "we don't know" defense used by some apologists, arguing that we do know certain uncomfortable facts—such as Joseph Smith being a "terrible money manager" regarding the Kirtland Safety Society. Instead, it seems better to accept Joseph Smith as an inspired but imperfect human being. 16:31 Church Discipline The discussion also touches on the treatment of intellectuals and dissidents, such as the "September Six." The Church has been inconsistent approach to discipline and reinstatement, contrasting the rebaptism of Maxine Hanks with the denial of Lavina Fielding Anderson. I hope that the Church is becoming more tolerant of diverse voices than it has in the past. The contributions of scholars like Matt Harris and Margaret Toscano deserve great praise. 19:38 Gospel Topics Essays Origin and Purpose The essays were initiated under Church Historian Elder Marlin Jensen and continued by his successor, Elder Steven E. Snow. They were created as a direct response to the explosion of the internet, where members were encountering disturbing information about Church history that was causing them to lose their testimonies. The goal was to provide fficial good information" on difficult subjects such as the translation of the Book of Mormon, race and the priesthood, and the Mountain Meadows Massacre. The "Quiet" Launch Rick explains that the Church purposely did not advertise the essays when they were first published (roughly between 2012 and 2015). According to Elder Snow, leadership wanted the answers to be available for those who were struggling, but they feared that broadcasting the essays might cause testimony loss among members who were not previously aware of the controversies. Handling Polygamy A significant portion of the discussion focuses on the three essays regarding polygamy. Rick gives the Church credit for admitting to difficult facts, such as Joseph Smith’s practice of polyandry (marrying women who were already married) and his marriage to teenage brides. However, Rick notes that some language appeared "softened" by leadership; for example, the essays described a 14-year-old bride as being "in her 15th year" to make it sound less jarring. Overall Assessment Despite some critiques, Rick views the essays as "leaps and bounds better" than what was available in previous decades. He mentions that historian Matt Harris (along with Margaret Toscano) has written a book critiquing the essays, highlighting that while they are a vast improvement, there are still areas where the essays are weak or where the Church is hesitant to fully engage.


    FBI & Feminists: Shocking Embezzlement Scandal at Exponent II (Katie Rich/Heather Sundahl) Jan 11, 2026
    Show notes

    The most shocking part of Exponent II's history is the organization's "FBI embezzlement story." In 2017, the board discovered that a trusted treasurer and close friend had embezzled hundreds of thousands of dollars over a six-year period. The theft was hidden because the money—often retreat deposits and subscription fees—was occasionally covered privately by the treasurer's family to prevent the retreat centers from reporting non-payment. The discovery led to a federal investigation, and the treasurer eventually served 17 months in federal prison. This crisis forced Exponent II to professionalize its operations, moving away from a purely trust-based system to one utilizing outside auditors, forensic accounting, and transparent financial reporting. https://youtu.be/TNqUb4KH748 Don’t miss our other conversations about Mormon feminism: https://gospeltangents.com/lds_theology/feminism/ Copyright © 2026 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Award-winning authors Katie Rich and Heather Sundal discuss the 50-year history of Exponent II. The organization has evolved from its 1970s roots into a modern, inclusive platform that now explicitly welcomes trans and non-binary individuals, as well as other gender minorities marginalized within the LDS Church. The authors highlight how their new book acts as an anthology, curating thousands of blog posts and magazine issues to show the organization’s growth from a focus on traditional feminism to a broader "Mormon continuum" of belief and identity. The authors also highlights the literary heart of the organization through specific essays: Lavina Fielding Anderson: An essay on "spiritual autobiography" that challenges the idea that women must always subsume their desires, instead arguing that seeking personal joy is a spiritually healthy and "radical" pursuit. Laurel Thatcher Ulrich: A 1981 piece describing the grueling balance of being a mother of five and a doctoral candidate, famously noting that "well-behaved women seldom make history". Embezzlement Despite the financial betrayal, the authors emphasize that the community's response was one of overwhelming generosity. From Laurel Thatcher Ulrich offering immediate financial help to the journal Dialogue paying Exponent II a $10,000 guest-editing fee, the organization’s survival proved that its "baby" was too important to the Mormon feminist community to let fail. Don’t miss our other conversations about Mormon feminism: https://gospeltangents.com/lds_theology/feminism/ Copyright © 2026 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved


    ERA & Ordain Women Controversies (Katie Rich/Heather Sundahl) Jan 08, 2026
    Show notes

    Award-winning authors Katie Rich and Heather Sundahl explore 2 controversies: Ordain Women & Equal Rights Amendment in the sometimes turbulent history of Exponent II during the late 20th century and its evolution into the digital age. The discussion centers on the Equal Rights Amendment (ERA) and how it marked a "watershed moment" for Mormon feminism. While many LDS women initially supported the ERA, the Church's stance shifted after Phyllis Schlafly convinced leadership that the amendment was a threat to the family. This led to a massive, coordinated effort where the church deployed 13,000 women to the 1977 International Women’s Year meeting in Salt Lake City to vote against nearly every proposal, including protections for victims of rape and childhood education. https://youtu.be/fW6UiSJehCo Don’t miss our other conversations about Mormon feminism: https://gospeltangents.com/lds_theology/feminism/ Copyright © 2026 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved A central figure in this era was Sonia Johnson, a "firebrand" who founded Mormons for ERA and publicly challenged the church's covert lobbying efforts. Her excommunication in 1979 was particularly shocking because it was based on her political activism and public reach rather than moral failings. The authors note that the Church often distinguishes between private belief and public dissent; while many shared Sonia's views, her large platform made her a target for disciplinary action. The conversation also highlights how Exponent II has navigated these tensions by prioritizing "community over ideological purity". Unlike more direct activist groups like Ordained Women, Exponent II provides a platform for a wide spectrum of voices, from those seeking ordination to those who find power in traditional roles. This is exemplified in their "priesthood issue," which contrasted the experiences of women who felt marginalized by their inability to give blessings with those who, like Diane Pritchette, believe women already possess inherent spiritual power. The authors conclude by discussing the historical precedent of Mormon women giving blessings by the laying on of hands—a practice that was common until the 1930s and continues in private settings today, despite official discouragement. We highlighted the distinction between direct activist movements and the platform-based approach of Exponent II. While the two share common threads, Exponent 2 remaines a space for diverse perspectives rather than an organization that took an official stance on the ordination of women. The authors describe Ordain Women as a movement focused on direct activism, whereas Exponent II is a feminist platform that hosts a "Mormon continuum" of voices, including those who are active, inactive, ex-Mormon, or never Mormon. Many early profiles for the Ordain Women movement, which utilized a style similar to the "I’m a Mormon" campaign, were actually Exponent II bloggers. Kate Kelly, the founder of Ordain Women, participated in Exponent II retreats. She was featured on a panel that specifically discussed women and the priesthood, showcasing how the organization fostered dialogue on controversial topics without mandating a "universal stance". A specific quarterly issue of the Exponent 2 magazine was dedicated to the priesthood to explore the topic's complexity67. This issue highlighted two contrasting viewpoints: ◦ Abby Hansen, a member of Ordain Women, shared the pain of feeling disconnected from spiritual power, specifically the difficulty of needing to seek blessings from "random" home teachers while her husband was away in the military. ◦ A Relief Society president in Boston, recounted an instance where she laid her hands on a woman's head to give a blessing during a crisis, operating under the belief that women already possess inherent spiritual power and do not need to "agitate" for others to give it to them. The desire for ordination is often linked to the lost history of Mormon women giving blessings. Women historically performed healings by the laying on of hands until the 1930s, as mentioned by Jonathan Stapley and Kristine Wright. The practice still occurs in private, "unauthorized" settings today among both feminists and traditionalists who feel a spiritual confidence to act in moments of crisis. Don’t miss our other conversations about Mormon feminism: https://gospeltangents.com/lds_theology/feminism/ Copyright © 2026 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved


    Apostle Shuts Down Claudia Bushman??? (1 of 4 Katie Rich/Heather Sundahl) Jan 05, 2026
    Show notes

    Mormon women led by Claudia Bushman started the Exponent II organization in Boston while her husband Richard Bushman was stake president. Claudia caused waves when she spoke about Mormon feminism and black priesthood ordination in the 1970s before the Equal Rights Amendment & black ordination became bigger issues in the LDS Church. Salt Lake City sent an apostle to shut down the organization. Award winning authors Katie Rich & Heather Sundahl detail these early days of Exponent II in their history of 50 years in the organization. Check out our conversation... https://youtu.be/CGUWDGlv87I 0:00 Meet the Authors 5:06 Living History 19:46 Bushmans in Boston Don’t miss our other conversations about Mormon feminism: https://gospeltangents.com/lds_theology/feminism/ Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission Award-winning authors Katie Rich and Heather Sundal chronicled the five-decade history of the organization in their book, 50 Years of Exponent II. The story began in July 1974, when a group of LDS women in Boston felt inspired to create a new platform for women’s voices. This inspiration was sparked by the discovery of the original Woman’s Exponent (1872–1914) in Harvard's Widener Library—a suffragist paper that showcased the complex lives of early Mormon women who balanced faith with activism. The organization grew out of a successful community project: a guidebook titled Beginners' Boston. While the local Elders Quorum dismissed the guidebook as a "stinker of an idea," the Relief Society took it on, eventually selling 23,000 copies! This success provided the women with both the confidence and the funds to launch a more ambitious project: Exponent II. The timing was critical, as the official Relief Society Magazine had been shuttered in 1970 due to the church's correlation movement, leaving women without an official outlet for their unique perspectives. Claudia Bushman However, the publication quickly faced tension with Church leadership in Salt Lake City. In 1975, Area Authority Robert D. Hales met with founder Claudia Bushman, specifically requesting that the paper cease publication because he believed it would "come to no good". Leadership was particularly concerned about the paper's hand-drawn art, which they felt looked "subversive," and Claudia's public comments in the Boston Globe regarding racial policies in the Church. Later, Apostle L. Tom Perry met with the staff, strongly suggesting they shut down and explicitly stating that Claudia Bushman must resign as editor to avoid the appearance that the paper was an official church publication, given that her husband, Richard Bushman, was the Stake President. Despite these pressures, the women chose to continue, prioritizing community over ideological purity. When Claudia Bushman eventually resigned, the organization avoided collapse by shifting from a model based on a charismatic leader to a collective, decentralized effort. By focusing on personal narratives rather than a "one-size-fits-all" perspective, Exponent II has remained a vital lifeline for women seeking to explore the complexities of their lives and faith for over fifty years. Don’t miss our other conversations with Mormon feminism: https://gospeltangents.com/lds_theology/feminism/ Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission


    Decade of History: Celebrating the 2025 Book Awards and Most-Watched Moments (GT Live) Jan 02, 2026
    Show notes

    Happy New Year to all the listeners and readers! As we step into 2026, I gave my second annual Gospel Tangents 2025 Book Awards. (Click the link for 2024!) It is the perfect time to look back at the milestones, challenges, and incredible content that defined 2025. While the past year was personally difficult due to several significant health challenges, it was a prolific year for the podcast, featuring 115 episodes! https://youtube.com/live/Jy-QsGSU4bA Hits of 2025 One of the most fascinating aspects of 2025 was seeing which videos resonated most with the audience. Some of the most-watched content actually came from the archives, proving that great history is timeless. This is 4 of my top 10 list. Mark Scherer Spike: A 2023 interview with Mark Sheerer saw a massive, unexplained spike in May, gaining tens of thousands of views and becoming the most-watched video of the year. See our conversation on Emma Smith’s 2nd husband Lewis Bidamon. The Mormon Cave: A 2021 episode featuring KC Kern and Greg Pavone rediscovering a cave in New York blew up in October. It turns out the surge might have been tied to the property being put up for sale. Fired from the First Presidency: The 2024 interview with Matt Harris remained a powerhouse, sitting at number three for the year. Sandra Tanner: Her discussion on Joseph Fielding Smith and the "ripped out" 1832 First Vision account was the most popular interview actually recorded in 20256. Gospel Tangents 2025 Book Awards The podcast isn't just about interviews; it’s about highlighting the best scholarship in the field. Here are the standout winners for the 2025 Book Awards: Best Book: John Turner’s Rise and Fall of an American Prophet. Best Temple Book: Holiness to the Lord by Jonathan Stapley, which offers what may be the best "temple prep" explanation ever written in its first chapter. Best Social Science Book: Goodbye Religion by Ryan Cragun, which explores why people are leaving organized religion across various faiths. Best Biography: Matthew Bowman’s work on Joseph Fielding Smith: A Mormon Theologian. Best First Book: Rich Hanks for To Be a Friend of Christ, a biography of his father, Marion D. Hanks. Best Mormon Feminism Work: Katie Rich and Heather Sundal for their work on Exponent II. Katie also won an award for her article on the Relief Society and Brigham Young. Looking Ahead to 2026 As we enter our 10th year of Gospel Tangents, there are big things on the horizon. There is a second podcast in the works, likely featuring a more informal YouTube Live format once or twice a month. However, growth comes with its own hurdles. We are currently about 12 months behind on transcripts1 If you are a fan of the show and want to help preserve these histories, please reach out at Gospel Tangents at gmail dot com to assist with transcribing. Your support on Patreon also remains vital to keeping this project running as we balance a busy production schedule. If you can help me with Instagram and Substack marketing, please reach out, knowing that my budget is extremely tight. Reviewing a year of history is much like excavating a cave; you never know which artifacts will suddenly catch the light and gain new value, but the effort of digging ensures that the story is never truly lost. Which of these titles did you like best? AI gave me these: 1. Ripped Pages and Rediscovered Caves: The Gospel Tangents 2025 Year in Review 2. A Decade of History: Celebrating the 2025 Book Awards and Most-Watched Moments 3. From Mark Sheerer to Sandra Tanner: The Surprising Viral Hits of 2025 4. The Best of Mormon History: 2025’s Award-Winning Books and Must-See Interviews 5. Looking Back to Leap Forward: Gospel Tangents’ Recap of 2025 and 2026 Predictions


    Bombs in Salt Lake (Curt Bench 2017 interview) Dec 29, 2025
    Show notes

    As we end 2025, I thought I'd share an old interview titled "Bombs in Salt Lake." This is from my first year with Curt Bench. Curt actually called Mark Hofmann to warn Mark there was a bomber out there, not knowing Mark was the bomber. We'll discuss Mark Hofmann's forgeries and murders from 1985, the trial, and more from this 2017 interview. Check out our conversation... https://youtu.be/K54RGgJ1kYc Don’t miss our other conversations on the Hofmann murders & forgeries: https://gospeltangents.com/lds_people_historical/mark-hofmann/ Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved The late Curt Bench, owner of Benchmark Books, provides a firsthand account of the Mark Hofmann forgery and bombing saga. As a former employee of Deseret Book and a business associate of Hofmann, Bench offers a unique perspective on how a "rock star" document hunter transformed into a cold-blooded killer. The Rise of a Master Forger Mark Hofmann established himself by "discovering" sensational documents that seemed to overturn traditional Mormon history. Bench details Hofmann’s incredible versatility, noting he could forge the handwriting of men and women from various eras with haunting accuracy. Notable forgeries discussed include the Salamander Letter, which introduced "folk magic" elements like a white salamander into the First Vision narrative, and the Joseph Smith III blessing, which appeared to confirm RLDS claims regarding succession. Hofmann achieved this by using period paper stolen from libraries and aging his ink with chemical recipes found in forgery manuals. Tragic Day of Bombs in Salt Lake On October 15, 1985, pipe bombs killed Steve Christensen and Kathy Sheets. In a surreal twist of history, Bench recounts how he actually called Hofmann to warn him after the first explosion, believing his friend might be a target of a business-related attack. Hofmann feigned shock during the call, even as Bench urged him to get his family into hiding. It was only after a third bomb injured Hofmann himself the following day that investigators—and eventually Bench—realized that Hofmann was the perpetrator, not another victim. A Shadow Over History The fallout of the Hofmann scandal was immense. Bench explains that Hofmann’s debts, largely tied to a non-existent "McLellin Collection," drove him to murder as his financial schemes collapsed. The scandal initially caused the Church to restrict access to its archives out of fear and suspicion. However, Bench reflects on the "renaissance" of transparency that followed, noting that the modern era of the Joseph Smith Papers and the Gospel Topics Essays represents a significant shift toward the light of day. Lessons in Trust Bench concludes with a deeply personal reflection on trust. Despite being "duped" along with Church leaders, experts, and Hofmann's own family, Bench decided that he could not live his life in a state of permanent paranoia. He emphasizes the importance of forgiveness and moving forward, as exemplified by Steve Christensen’s father, Mac, who later helped outfit Hofmann’s son for a mission. Don’t miss our other conversations on the Hofmann murders & forgeries: https://gospeltangents.com/lds_people_historical/mark-hofmann/ Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved


    Dan Vogel Unlocks Book of Abraham Dec 25, 2025
    Show notes

    Historian Dan Vogel breaks down the complex history of the Book of Abraham, beginning with the 1835 purchase of Egyptian mummies in Kirtland, Ohio. Rather than seeing the Kirtland Egyptian Papers as a failed attempt by scribes to understand Egyptian, Vogel argues they were Joseph Smith’s own working papers. He demonstrates how Smith used these documents to "brainstorm" a new theological framework, allowing him to introduce doctrines like the priesthood ban and the plurality of gods under the guise of an ancient text. This is a replay of my 2019 interview with Dan. https://youtu.be/sFKoRTTZ4SU Don’t miss our other conversations with Dan: https://gospeltangents.com/people/dan-vogel Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Arrival of the Mummies and Papyrus The story begins in July 1835, when Michael Chandler arrived in Kirtland with four mummies and several papyrus scrolls. Joseph Smith purchased the collection for $2,400 and quickly identified the records as the writings of the biblical patriarchs Abraham and Joseph. Vogel notes that while Smith identified these as ancient records, they were actually Egyptian funerary texts, specifically the "Book of Breathings" (belonging to a priest named Horus) and the "Book of the Dead" (belonging to Ta-Sherit-Min). "Brainstorming" Book of Abraham Translation A central part of the discussion involves the Kirtland Egyptian Papers, which include "Alphabet" and a bound "Grammar" volume. Vogel disputes the apologetic theory that these documents were a failed attempt by scribes to reverse-engineer Smith's translation. Instead, he argues they were Smith’s own working papers used to "brainstorm" theological concepts. According to Vogel, Smith used these documents to develop complex ideas—such as a priesthood lineage and an Egyptian-themed cosmology—before dictating the final text. Evidence of Oral Dictation Vogel presents compelling evidence that the Book of Abraham was orally dictated. He points to manuscripts where scribes Frederick G. Williams and Warren Parrish wrote simultaneously, making the same in-line corrections as Smith changed his mind about specific wording. Furthermore, the scribes used phonetic spellings for names like "Alcanor" or "Elkenah," which reflected Joseph Smith’s distinct New England non-rhotic accent (e.g., dropping/adding the "r" sound). Filling the Gaps: Invented Characters One of the most significant findings involves the lacunae, or missing portions of the papyrus. Vogel asserts that where the scroll was damaged, Smith invented characters to fill the gaps. These invented characters were then transcribed into the translation manuscripts and given lengthy English definitions that ended up in the Book of Abraham. This suggests that the surviving fragments—which match these characters—were indeed the source material Smith was using. Theological Projection The Book of Abraham served as a tool to introduce new doctrines that Smith was building into the Church’s structure. Vogel explains how the cosmology of the stars (like Kolob) mirrored the ecclesiastical structure of the Kirtland Temple. The three ruling planets and twelve others corresponded to the three presidencies and the twelve members of the High Council. In this way, Smith projected his 19th-century priesthood concerns back onto an ancient patriarchal narrative0. Critique of the "Long Scroll Theory" Finally, Vogel addresses the modern apologetic "Long Scroll Theory," which posits that the Book of Abraham was on a portion of the papyrus that was destroyed in the 1871 Chicago Fire. Vogel argues this is a "fallacy of possible proof". He maintains that the documentary evidence—specifically the way the characters in the margins of the translation manuscripts match the surviving fragments—proves that Smith was translating from the documents we still possess today. Don’t miss our other conversations with Dan: https://gospeltangents.com/people/dan-vogel Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved


    Dan Vogel on the Evolution of Joseph Smith’s First Vision (2019 interview) Dec 22, 2025
    Show notes

    We're diving deep into the evolution of First VIsion accounts with Historian Dan Vogel. He offers a deep dive into the historical developments of early Mormonism, challenging both critics and believers to look closer at the documents. What if Joseph Smith was neither a simple con man nor a traditional prophet, but something more complex? https://youtu.be/uVVJcgmyUKA Don’t miss our other conversations on the First Vision: https://gospeltangents.com/mormon_history/first-vision/ Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved "Pious Fraud" Theory Vogel describes himself as a "moderate" critic who seeks the most charitable view of Joseph Smith that a non-believer can hold. He proposes the theory of "pious fraud," viewing Smith as an "inspired pseudepigraphist". In this framework, Smith believed he was genuinely called by God to teach true doctrine but used intentional deception—such as the physical gold plates—to provide "evidence" that would make it harder for others to reject his message. Vogel compares this to a faith healer who uses suggestion or minor "tricks" to raise an audience's faith level so that they are prepared to receive what they believe are real miracles. For Smith, the "greater good" was the salvation of his followers and the conversion of his own family. Evolution of the First Vision One of the most significant points of Vogel’s research is the evolution of the First Vision narrative. He highlights that the earliest recorded account from 1832 is markedly different from the canonized 1838 version. The 1832 Account: This version mentions only one personage (Jesus) and focuses on Smith’s personal remission of sins. There is no mention of a revival or a command to stay away from all churches; rather, Smith had already concluded the churches were wrong by the age of 12. The 1838 Account: This version, written during a time of intense persecution in Missouri, includes the 1820 revival and a mandate that all other creeds were an "abomination". Vogel argues that the 1820 date for the revival is anachronistic, noting that historical records place the great Palmyra revival in 1824–25. He suggests Smith moved the event back in his history to transform a personal "born-again" experience into a foundational event for the entire Church. Priesthood and the "Chain of Ordinations" Angelic ordinations were likely a later development. Vogel asserts that early on, authority was understood as a direct command from God through a seer stone or revelation, rather than the laying on of hands by angels. It wasn't until around 1834–35 that detailed stories of John the Baptist and Peter, James, and John appeared in the records. Vogel posits these stories were introduced to solidify Joseph Smith’s authority against internal challengers and to create a formal "chain of ordinations" that was harder to break. Theological Shifts: From One God to Three Vogel tracks a clear evolution in Smith's theology regarding the nature of God: Modalism: The Book of Mormon reflects a view where Jesus is both the Father and the Son. Bi-theism/Trinitarianism: The Lectures on Faith (1835) describe God as a personage of spirit and the Son as a personage of tabernacle. Physical Personages: Only later, in the Nauvoo period, did Smith teach that both the Father and the Son have physical bodies of flesh and bone. We’ll dive deeper into all 4 First Vision narratives. Check it out!


    Strangite Priesthood-Beaver Island Preview Gary Weber (5 of 6) Dec 19, 2025
    Show notes

    Recently, I had the fascinating opportunity to delve into the beliefs practices, and Strangite priesthood views with Gary Weber of the Strangite Church, a lesser-known branch of Mormonism. This discussion sheds light on many intriguing aspects of their faith, highlighting both commonalities and distinct differences from the more widely known LDS (Latter-day Saint) Church. https://youtu.be/52ZIzhsxMKY Understanding Strangite Priesthood: A Core Difference One of the most significant distinctions discussed was the Strangite understanding of the priesthood and its associated "keys." While the Melchizedek priesthood holds specific keys related to office, it does not encompass all keys. According to Gary Weber, the Melchizedek priesthood cannot evolve to ordain a prophet. Instead, they believe a prophet can only be ordained by an angel, as was the case for Moses, Joseph Smith, and James J. Strang. The fundamental principle here is that "the lesser cannot ordain the greater". This leads to a critical differentiation of priesthood keys: Keys of Mysteries and Revelations: These keys are associated only with the prophet-lawgiver and can only be held by one person at a time. Gary Weber states that James J. Strang could not have been ordained by angels while Joseph Smith was alive but was ordained the moment Joseph Smith died. Keys of the Kingdom: These keys can be possessed by many people, as seen with the twelve apostles who were given these keys to spread the gospel to nations. They can also confer these keys to others, with hundreds potentially holding them. Gary noted that many members of the LDS Church often don't understand this distinction between the two types of keys. Sacrament Practices: Purity and Purpose The Strangite Church observes the sacrament once a month, rather than weekly like the LDS Church. Their reasoning is that frequent observance could make it "mundane" and cause it to "lose its specialness and sacredness". The elements used for the sacrament also have specific requirements: Juice: Any edible fresh fruit juice is acceptable, as stated in their book of law under the Eucharist. Examples include orange juice, which was used when Gary grew up in Artesia, or fresh processed grape juice from their vineyard. If no juice is available, water can be used, emphasizing the focus on one's "eye singleness to God" and the purpose of remembering Christ's blood. Typically Strangites use some sort of fresh juice (not store-bought) for the sacrament. This assures the juice has not been adulterated. Bread: Must be made of any grain, prepared by the members themselves, not store-bought. This is to ensure its purity and prevent it from being "adulterated". Other Doctrines and Practices: Baptism: They baptize at age eight, aligning with the LDS Church, based on the Doctrine and Covenants and a belief that children at this age have scientifically reached a maturity level to understand right from wrong. Baptism can occur in a church font or natural bodies of water like the White River, depending on personal preference. Strangite Priesthood Recognition: The Strangite Church does not recognize the priesthood of other churches, including the LDS priesthood, as they trace their priesthood lineage back through Joseph Smith and James J. Strang. Communion: They practice a closed communion, meaning it is only served to those who have been baptized, taken upon Christ's name, and are deemed worthy, as stated in the Book of Mormon by Jesus to the Nephites. Missionary Work: Unlike the door-to-door approach of many LDS missionaries, Strangites engage in a more limited form of proselytization. They will travel to baptize individuals with whom they've corresponded and who show genuine interest, sometimes over many months. Interestingly, Gary expressed that the wider recognition of the "Mormon" name, largely due to the LDS Church's efforts, has made it easier for Strangites to teach Mormonism, viewing it as part of God's plan. Trinity and Godhead: The Strangite Church does not believe in the Trinity. Their belief in the Godhead is described as similar to the LDS understanding, though Gary noted he wasn't "100% sure if it's the same". Eternal Progression: A key distinction is their rejection of eternal progression, meaning they do not believe humans can become like God. Jesus' Birth: Gary mentioned their belief that Jesus was the biological son of Joseph and Mary, rejecting the concept of a virgin birth entirely. They believe Jesus is "the only Begotten" because he was the only one raised from the dead by God. Sealings: They do believe in eternal sealings for the living, with Gary stating he was sealed to his wife eternally. However, these ceremonies are likely very different from LDS temple ceremonies, and they do not perform sealings for the dead. Beaver Island: A Historical Footprint Fades The conversation also touched upon Beaver Island, a significant historical site for Strangites. Currently, there is very little physical evidence of the Strangite presence on the island; "you would never know that Mormons were ever there," Gary remarked. There are hardly any paved roads, mostly dirt, and the island is primarily a tourist and vacation spot. However, some historical markers remain, such as a gravel road still known as "King's Highway," named after King James Strang. Historically, Beaver Island was where important practices like baptism for the dead took place at "Font Lake". James J. Strang and other elders also engaged in missionary work with the local Native Americans, who reportedly loved Strang and called him "father". Unfortunately, much of the history from that period, including records of baptisms among the Indians, was lost when the Strangites were driven off the island. In our next episode, I’ll give a tour of Beaver Island. What are your thoughts?


    Previous 1 6 7 8 9 10 20 Next

    Related Podcasts

    Joel Osteen Podcast

    1

    Joel Osteen Podcast Christianity
    Joel Osteen Podcast

    2

    Joel Osteen Podcast Christianity
    The Bible For Normal People

    3

    The Bible For Normal People Christianity
    The Liturgists Podcast

    4

    The Liturgists Podcast Christianity
    Firestarters

    5

    Firestarters Christianity
    Elevation with Steven Furtick

    6

    Elevation with Steven Furtick Christianity
    footer-logo

    Contact Us

    Toll Free: 844-670-7747

    Links

    • Home
    • Top Charts
    • Networks
    • Apps
    • Independents Podcasts
    • Podcast Advertising
    • Podcast News
    • Contact Us
    • About Us
    • Analytics & Insights

    Stay Connected

      Privacy, Terms of Use & Our Code of Ethics Protecting Content Creators Copyrights