Deviate

Latest Episodes:

Traveler ideals, hospitality, and the disappearance of an Italian priest in Syria Jul 12, 2022

Show notes

“I talked as much about the National Basketball Association in Syria as I did about politics. Syrians felt so global and interested in everything. As a young backpacker, I don’t know that I appreciated the historical moment that I was in.” –Rolf Potts

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Shaun talk about how they first came to know of Father Paolo and Deir Mar Musa monastery in Syria (3:00); the warm and hospitable experience of traveling in other parts of the country (10:00); Father Paolo’s “interfaith dialogue” initiatives at Deir Mar Musa (18:30); what happened to Father Paolo after the Syrian government cracked down on dissent and protest in 2011 (29:00); and how Father Paolo’s monastery fostered interfaith dialogue over debate, and what his legacy is in Syria (43:00).

Shaun O’Neill is the author of A Church of Islam: The Syrian Calling of Father Paolo Dall’Oglio.

Notable Links:

The strangers we meet on the road (Deviate episode)
Paolo Dall’Oglio (Italian priest and peace activist)
Deir Mar Musa (Christian monastery in Syria)
2011 Syrian uprising (phase of the Arab Spring)
Sufism (mystic Islamic practice)
Neuromancer, by William Gibson (novel)
Tahrir Square (public area in Cairo)
Hafez al-Assad (Syrian president from 1971-2000)
Kurdish Syria (northeast part of the country)
Alawites (ethnoreligious group)
Interfaith dialogue (interaction between religious traditions)
Desert Fathers (early Christian monks)
Free Syrian Army (civil war faction)
Daesh (militant Islamists in Syria and Iraq)
Pope John Paul II (Catholic leader)
Of Gods and Men(2010 film)
Frans van der Lugt (Dutch priest killed in Syria)
Syncretism (combining of different beliefs)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lu mber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

Refuse to be Done: The art of creative persistence for long-haul projects Jun 28, 2022

Show notes

“The noun part of “writer” seems to require outside validation, but the verb part of it — “writing” — is something you’re either doing or you’re not.” –Matt Bell

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Matt talk about the importance of creative persistence and obsession (1:45); the importance of maintaining creative discipline and keeping concrete track of your progress (8:00); “swooper” versus “basher” writers, and approaches to revision (14:00); the importance of place to narrative, and its role in research (21:15); how point-of-view affects a narrative (30:00); the important of “inciting incidents” and other techniques of narrative structure (38:00); strategies for getting “unstuck” in a narrative (42:30); and counterintuitive strategies for revising a creative work (52:00).

Novelist Matt Bell (@mdbell79) is the author of several books, including, most recently, Refuse to Be Done: How to Write and Rewrite a Novel in Three Drafts.

Notable Links:

National Novel Writing Month (creative writing event)
Lauren Groff (novelist)
IKEA (ready-to-assemble furniture)
Anne Lamott (author)
Kurt Vonnegut (author)
Iceberg theory (writing technique)
Appleseed (novel by Matt Bell)
Scandinavian noir (genre of crime fiction)
William Inge (playwright)
Orpheus and Eurydice (Greek legend)
Point of view (narrative mode)
Graham Greene (novelist and travel writer)
Poetics (work of dramatic theory by Aristotle)
Amy Tan (author)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lu mber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

Marcia DeSanctis on revisiting places, souvenirs, and travel as self-reinvention Jun 14, 2022

Show notes

“Travel imparts a liquid language whose sole property is the flow of questions.” –Marcia DeSanctis

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Marcia talk about what it was like to work as a TV producer for Barbara Walters (1:30); how she made the decision to transition into prose writing, and how a sense of curiosity and abandon can inspire travel and travel writing (6:00); how we all change as travelers over the course of a lifetime (13:00); the way the things we bring home from our travels shape our memories of places (21:30); and how travel is a way to reinvent oneself (30:00).

Marcia DeSanctis (marciadesanctis1) is a Contributing Writer for Travel + Leisure. Her 2022 essay collection is entitled A Hard Place to Leave: Stories from a Restless Life.

Notable Links:

Barbara Walters (American TV host)
Muammar Gaddafi (Libyan revolutionary)
The Millions (online literary magazine)
Souvenir, book by Rolf Potts (book)
Alexander Pushkin (Russian poet)
Kievan Rus’ (medieval state)
Leningrad (former name of St. Petersburg)
Trans–Mongolian Railway (Asian train route)
A&E Biography (TV program)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lu mber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

Chris Guillebeau on life goals, work, and travel as alt-university [encore] May 31, 2022

Show notes

“Have a bias toward action.” – Chris Guillebeau

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Chris discuss Chris’ quest to travel to every country in the world (4:30); discovering and fine-tuning your passions through travel (17:00); exploring creativity through various mediums, and discontentment as a catalyst for change (27:00); knowing when to write a book (44:00); and overcoming adversity as a creative person (56:00).

Chris Guillebeau (@chrisguillebeau), who visited every country in the world before his 35th birthday is a New York Times bestselling author. His books include The Art of Non-Conformity, The $100 Startup, The Happiness of Pursuit, and Side Hustle. He is also the host of the Side Hustle School podcast. For more on Chris, check out https://chrisguillebeau.com/ or his 193 Countries Project at https://www.instagram.com/193countries/.

Notable Links:

School of Travel (podcast)
The 4-Hour Workweek, by Tim Ferriss (book)
Paris Writing Workshops
World Domination Summit (event)
Ryan Holiday (author)
Scrivener (note management application)
Evernote (note management application)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lu mber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

Hitchhiking for pastries: The art of structuring a journey with an obsession May 17, 2022

Show notes

“”Curiosity is contagious.” –Sophia Bentaher

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Sophia talk about structuring journey around specific passions and obsessions, and her own decision to hitchhike Europe in search of pastry recipes (2:00); how your national or ethnic identity affects how you are seen as a traveler (13:00); Sophia’s experiences as a woman hitchhiker in places like France, Switzerland and Italy, and how she documented her experiences on a spreadsheet (21:00); how the quest for pastry transformed the journey (38:00); how the travel experience led her to open a pastry business in Marrakesh (49:00); and how processes and stories are sometimes more essential than outcomes (57:30).

Sophia Bentaher (@sophiabnthr) is a food traveler and writer, with a French-Moroccan background. Her obsession for food, specifically desserts, led her to drop a 9-5 lifestyle and go explore Europe to learn a traditional cake recipe in each country.

Notable Links:

The Wet and the Dry, by Laurence Osborne (book)
American Chinatown, by Bonnie Tsui (book)
Excel (spreadsheet software)
Hero’s journey (mythology template)
Wanderjahre or Compagnons du Devoir (learning journey)
Third culture kid (cross-cultural identity)
Crostata (Italian tart)
Cornes de Gazelle (Moroccan cookie)
The Alchemist (novel)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lu mber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

How to embrace uncertainty and redefine success by taking a “pathless path” May 03, 2022

Show notes

“The pathless path is an embrace of uncertainty and discomfort. It’s a call to adventure in a world that tells us to conform.” –Paul Millerd

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Paul talk about American ideas of success, what these ideas mean, and how certain kinds of success don’t improve one’s life-path (1:30); how Paul used travel and overseas living to reinvent his relationship to time and help put himself on the pathless path (16:30); how we instinctively sense when we’re on a wrong path, and what to do when we feel this way (30:00); and Paul’s ten principles for embracing the pathless path (40:00).

Paul Millerd (@p_millerd) is a strategy consultant, and the author of The Pathless Path: Imagining a New Story for Work and Life.

Notable Links:

Wu wei (Taoist concept of inaction)
Joseph Campbell (comparative mythologist)
Søren Kierkegaard (philosopher)
Jerry Colonna (financier)
Seth Godin (author)
Tim Ferriss (author and podcaster)
Commonplace book (method of compiling knowledge)
Johann Wolfgang von Goethe (writer)

Ten ways to embrace the pathless path:

1) Question the default
2) Reflect
3) Figure out what you have to offer
4) Pause and disconnect
5) Go make a friend
6) Go make something
7) Give generously
8) Experiment
9) Commit
10) Be patient

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lu mber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

What travel teaches you about the human body, with Dr. Jonathan Reisman Apr 19, 2022

Show notes

“Once I started medical school and my scalpel met the cadaver’s skin, I discovered that exploring the body felt quite similar to exploring the outside world.” –Jonathan Reisman

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Jonathan talk about how doctors and travel writers and both be generalists, and how travel puts can put us into a new relationship with our bodies (1:30); what travel to a place like India can teach you about toilet hygiene (7:00); what eating unfamiliar or strange-seeming food on a journey can teach you about the body (15:00); culturally specific ideas about fat, eating fat, and the idea of being fat (21:00); what Americans are getting wrong about health, nutrition, technology, and the human body (31:00); how the pineal gland regulates sleep, and what we know about it (35:00); and how travel helps us understand how our bodies work (42:00).

Dr. Jonathan Reisman (@jonreismanMD) is an internist, pediatrician and ER physician, and author of The Unseen Body: A Doctor’s Journey Through the Hidden Wonders of Human Anatomy.

Notable Links:

Jet lag (physiological condition)
Travelers’ diarrhea (intestinal infection)
Gastritis (stomach inflammation)
Sinusitis (inflammation of the sinuses)
Kamchatka (peninsula in the Russian Far East)
Haggis (Scottish savory pudding)
Cholesterol (steroid alcohol found in fat)
Triglycerides (constituent of body fat)
Endocrine organ (part of the body’s hormonal system)
Pineal gland (endocrine gland that secretes melatonin)
Ambien (medicine for sleeping problems)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lu mber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

The creative art of making a living as an adventurer, with Alastair Humphreys Apr 05, 2022

Show notes

“The worst of what adventurers do is an exercise in vanity, chasing a scrolling, envious audience. At best, an adventurer makes people smile, challenges them to think, brings about change and inspires action.” –Alastair Humphreys

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Alastair talk about what the task of an “adventurer” is these days, and how Al got his start in adventure travel (2:00); how one might approach becoming an adventurer in this day and age, and how to balance embracing versus recording the adventure (7:30); the nuts and bolts of managing things like sponsorships and social media (19:00); communicating with one’s audience, including optimizing blog posts and email newsletters (35:00); working with agents, and when and why to self-publish books (47:00).

Alastair Humphreys (@Al_Humphreys) is an English adventurer, author and motivational speaker. Alastair was the National Geographic Adventurer of the Year in 2012, and has written thirteen books, most recently Ask An Adventurer.

Notable Links:

Bill Tillman (20th century English mountaineer)
Bear Grylls (British adventurer)
Microadventures, by Alastair Humphreys (book)
Buffer (social-media managing application)
“Five-Bullet Friday” (Tim Ferriss email newsletter)
Google Forms (survey software)
Jab, Jab, Jab, Right Hook, by Gary Vaynerchuk (book)
Alastair Humphreys newsletters
Austin Kleon weekly newsletter
Kindle Direct Publishing (self-publishing platform)
Creative Penn (website for writers)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lu mber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

The strangers we meet on the road, and how they can deepen our journey Mar 22, 2022

Show notes

“Part of what enabled me to kiss that stranger was knowing I would never see him again.” –Colleen Kinder

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Colleen discuss why she started the magazine Off Assignment, and how it came to encompass letters to strangers (2:30); some of the specific stories included in Letter to a Stranger, and the role potential romance can play in meeting strangers (9:00); Rolf’s memorable travel strangers, how new travelers interact with people and places with a different energy than seasoned travelers or expats (27:00); places that force us into contact with strangers, like subways and hostels (33:00); and what it’s like to see travelers as a stationary person, and what local strangers must think of travelers (42:00).

Colleen Kinder (@colleenkinder) is an essayist and editor whose work has appeared in the New York Times Magazine, the New Republic, and The Best American Travel Writing. She is the editor of the anthology Letter to a Stranger: Essays to the Ones Who Haunt Us.

Colleen’s magazine Off Assignment accepts “Letter to a Stranger” submissions from all manner of travelers. If you’d like to submit an 800-1500-word letter to an unshakeable stranger you’ve met on the road, please read the magazine’s submission guidelines.

Notable Links:

Leslie Jamison (essayist)
Pico Iyer (travel author)
Interview with Julia Cooke (Deviate episode)
Lavinia Spalding (travel author)
“To a Stranger,” by Walt Whitman (poem)
Ficar (Brazilian Portuguese slang)
Speed dating (matchmaking process)
Hijab (garment worn by some Muslim women)
“Blot Out,” (Egypt essay by Colleen Kinder)
Craig Mod (writer)
Before Sunrise (1995 travel movie)
Ajijic (Mexican town popular with retiree expats)
Leaving the Atocha Station (novel by Ben Lerner)
Semester at Sea (study-abroad program)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lu mber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

Vagabonding audio companion: What it’s like to come home after a long trip Mar 08, 2022

Show notes

“In the Hong Kongs and New Yorks and Londons of the world you need to find ways to get outside, because it can be depressing to be in a great world city and be trapped in an 800-square-foot space.” –Rolf Potts

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Rueben discuss what it’s like to come home after a life-changing journey, sharing the story with others, exploring one’s own hometown on foot (2:00); the wisdom captured in quotes, and the power of poetry (22:00); the notion of what is possible in less-expensive cities and neighborhoods, avoiding consumerist living, and spending money locally (35:00); the excuses people make to postpone taking their dream trips, and how friends and family can keep you accountable (45:30).

Reuben Dreiblatt is the host of “The A.T. With You & Me,” a podcast about through-hiking the Appalachian Trail.

Notable Links:

Van Life before #VanLife (Deviate episode)
Long-distance hiking at home (Deviate episode)
Friluftsliv (Norwegian ethos of being outdoors)
The World Beneath Your Feet (documentary)
Matt Green interview (Deviate episode)
Souvenir, by Rolf Potts (book)
Lower East Side Tenement Museum (NYC museum)
What narrative therapy is (Deviate episode)
Commonplace book (journal method)
Wanderlust, by Rebecca Solnit (book about walking)
Walt Whitman (American poet)
Standing on the shoulders of giants (metaphor)
Ed Buryn interview (Deviate episode)
Asheville (city in North Carolina)
52 Places to Visit in 2022 (New York Times article)
Gary Snyder (American poet)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lu mber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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