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You can't take out a pair of pliers and change wires and go, there you go, I told you, this is how we can fix you. We've got to cultivate what we want, and I think part of us as people looking back at our lives, I think if we don't get over ourselves early enough, then we take up all the energy to fix ourselves and we ignore to sow what we want in our children. It's amazing when the kid starts drifting, and you no longer have the reach and control you think you have. dadAWESOME We're on a mission to add LIFE to the dad life. We're passionate about helping dads live fully alive as they lead their kids to God's awesomeness. | YouTube | Instagram | Facebook Pierre du Plessis Born in Johannesburg, South Africa, Pierre du Plessis and his family relocated in 1999 to pastor The Father's House, a multi-cultural, multi-generational, and multi-site church located in Rochester, NY. Pierre is known for his unique ability to bring the Bible to life using vivid illustrations mixed with humor and practical life application. He is passionate about mentoring & equipping leaders, engaging all generations and encouraging people to experience God. He is married to his best friend and partner in ministry, Marlize and they have two young adult children, Chloe and Caleb. Ministry Shout Out! Harbor Ministries - https://harborministries.com/ GOD IS ALL ABOUT DISRUPTION. So we followed His lead. We set out to wake leaders up and shake them free of crushing expectations, ineffective habits, and treacherous coping mechanisms. It couldn't be another course, conference, or retreat. It had to be a connection. An intimate experience. An ongoing support network. A band of brothers. It had to be a harbor. Since 2009, Harbor Ministries has journeyed with 25+ different RHYTHMinTWENTY or Rogue groups. These leaders come from 40+ different states. These leaders have refused to settle and have rebelled against the idea that impact required them to sacrifice their health, their sanity, their families, or their souls. They are discovering how to live with a rhythm that will allow them to leave a legacy and finish well. And along the way they are impacting hundreds of churches and organizations, and tens of thousands of people. AND THE WAVES THAT ARE CHANGING THE LEADERSHIP NARRATIVE HAVE JUST BEGUN. April 23rd - National Day of SPACE Space Podcast - https://harborministries.com/space/ Show Transcript: On behalf of all our guests, welcome to the show. Thank you so much. This is just a privilege to learn from you. So you're in Rochester, New York, but originally from South Africa, is that correct? That's right. Yes, we've been here now 20 years in Rochester. Two decades and you lead as the lead pastor of The Father's House in Rochester, NY. Will you help our listeners get to know you a little bit, Pastor Pierre, and talk about your wife, your family, your kids, and a little bit of what you're up to for leadership in ministry. Yes, so as you already mentioned, I come from South Africa. Born, and my family, everybody they come from a deep line of ministry. If I say ministry I think to put the context of ministry, it's a Pentecostal, conservative Pentecostal home that deeply loved Jesus and believed in prayer. Those are the good things. So many other things that roll from it, right? But it's all good. When I was about 33, we came to the U.S. It was not a straight narrative, there's so much to it, and I think some of that is learning that getting to where God wants you may take some U-Turns and loops, it's not always a straight line. We came when my kids were still small. I've got two kids. My daughter Chloe is the oldest. She was I think about a year and a half and my son was close to eight months when we came over, Caleb. My wife, Marlize comes from a great house too. South Africa is interesting, because you have so many cultures wrapped together in a very small land space. I come from a very very Afrikaans Dutch family. My wife, same country, she comes from an English family. So, different culture, different vibe. I like the English people, they're just laid back. Coming to her was like coming home for me, it's just the vibe, the culture, her as a person. Coming to Rochester, NY, I came as the creative arts and worship Pastor of a small church here in Rochester. About two years into this, we had the opportunity to start leading the church, and the rest is history. It has been a phenomenal, phenomenal ride, and we are so thankful that God pointed to us and called us over. That's amazing, and I know partially from my Lead Pastor, Pastor Peter Haas, and him talking about you, and even some of the leadership you do globally, even beyond, way beyond Rochester, New York, so thank you for all the areas you're leading in, but let's talk about leadership at home for a second. How old are your kids now? Are they out of the house now? I hope they'll never leave the house. You know, the fun thing is that my kids are, my daughter I think is 24 right now, my son, almost 22. Right about then I know some of the people are now reverse engineering their ages, I'll go, I'm always off with ages and with stages. They are just amazing, amazing kids, because all kids do not come packaged the same, so I don't think looking at our kids and how they're turning out is always a reflection of how we got it right. I think, when I look at my kids, The Lord was very kind to us because these two young adults are phenomenal human beings, and I know the seed that's been sown over the years has been consistent. They are still living at home. When it was time for them to leave, I said to my wife, "I'm not ready. I'm going to buy a house that they will never want to leave." And I did. I did. But now my son talks about leaving, and I applaud that, because that's what he wants to do. We are a close family, we like each other a lot, we do. That's what we all pray for, that closeness and a love to be together. Now, you mentioned sowing seeds. Just sowing seeds, I think you said consistency. Can you talk about, maybe if you had to prioritize a few areas of sowing seeds, and just consistent fatherhood to us young dads listening, what are some of the areas that you're like, "I would put extra focus there?" I think the tough thing is that both you and I have seen, and we see it in other people, but we ignore it in ourselves. By the time the seed comes up and you don't like what's on the land, you want to do a blitz of stripping it down, re-planting, and expecting a new result in about five days, otherwise I'm going to send you to a therapist. We want to change the harvest quickly, but we don't understand that it takes a long time to get the seed in. If you don't like what you see, it takes a long time to cultivate it, because I always say this to our team and to our church, "No human heart is mechanical, it's organic." You can't take out a pair of pliers and change wires and go, there you go, I told you, this is how we can fix you. We've got to cultivate what we want, and I think part of us as people looking back at our lives, I think if we don't get over ourselves early enough, then we take up all the energy to fix ourselves and we ignore to sow what we want in our children. It's amazing when the kid starts drifting, and you no longer have the reach and control you think you have. All of a sudden, you get over yourself really quickly, and you realize what's at hand. I would say to young dads, Just get to your issues, deal with your issues. They will always be there, but it can't be the main thing in your life. There's no greater joy when you see the best of you and your spouse reflected in the character of Jesus showing up in front of you, because at least you know some of that miswiring and brokenness stopped with you, you didn't pass it on to your children. So you're really saying, don't focus on tactics externally, focus on God healing and bringing your stuff, so that it doesn't get in the way and you don't stay selfish. I appreciate that perspective. When you think back to, and because we named this show "dadAWESOME," we have to talk about a not-so-awesome dad moment. Can you think of a story like that you'd be willing to share, and just an area where maybe you caused hurt or pain, or you did something you wish you could have back with your kids and maybe what you learned from that forward? Oh my gosh, yeah. I've got a tender heart. I will cry for days sitting here because the fact of the matter is, we see these things too late. Right? But thank God we can see them and be mindful that there's more of those things that are coming. I think one of the biggest things that I love to build things, do things. I'm always busy with my hands, always busy with my mind, I'm just wired that way. It is not a willful thing, it is just the way I am. So, my daughter was doing a school project, at the end of the school year when she was graduating, and she had to do a timeline narrative with family pictures to tell the story of her life, and she was sitting in the dining room area, and all the pictures and photo albums were on the table, and I looked at the pictures, and I became extremely sad. I was trying to wipe tears, and she'd be like, "Dad! You're too old to cry. Old people cry at the snap of a hat, what is up with that?" and I go like, "Baby, you don't understand, every one of these pictures, I can tell you what I was building, I can tell you what I was solving, I can tell you what I was confronting. I remember the pictures, but I was not in them all. I go like, "I can't have it over. I was not present. There were other things more important and I think the reason why this is so sad for me is because I can never sit at the beach with a five year old building sandcastles again, recapturing the time. I would excuse myself and say I've got to go to the restroom to go on my phone to go capture something. I think it is like they say, "Youth is wasted on the young." I think children are wasted on prudish parents that don't understand that there is a lifetime to build things, once your kids go into their own orbit. There is a lifetime, there comes a day where you go like, "what are we doing?" They go like, "we know what we're doing, I don't know what you are doing." But while they want to be with you, be present. You can bulk your kingdom of sandcastles when they're out. For me, the biggest regret is not being present. That is my biggest regret. Any coaching for us? Outside of just awareness, any coaching, whether it's classic examples like dinners together, do you have any coaching tips for us on how to be more present? Yeah, I think, first of all, to know and get feedback on what you think is normal. I was raised Dutch. Dutch is very caring, but not as emotionally warm as my wife's family. So, in my family, the strangest thing is you would get a birthday card. You would never read it, because my parents bought it for the outside picture, not for the inside words. They never wrote inside the card but, "Mom and Dad." That's just Dutch. That's the Afrikaans way. My wife's family, when I went to the first Christmas, I didn't open the card, and she was deeply offended, because for us, we get to the gift. I know who it's coming from because I saw you give it to me. For me it was the label of who gave the gift. Oh my goodness, for them, it was nothing on the outside, everything was written on the inside. For us, we know we were loved, but we didn't express it in a physical way. My wife's family, they hug you to no end. They express love to no end. I had to choose what do I want my kids to experience? And because there was a feedback, because there was a moment, becoming extremely thoughtful in expressing love and words was a result of my wife holding up the picture of, "is this what you want?" She didn't force me, I go like, "No. That's why I married you, and I like this side of things." So I think to know that is important, especially when it comes to girls, because to the extent that they are loved by their father, they will not become restless to go find it somewhere else. Because it is the father's words that invokes beauty in the wife and in the daughter, and it's the father's strength and the father's kindness and connection with the son that establishes his manhood, right? And I think that if we become paralyzed as men to express what the children need, I think we don't understand what we are. The buckets are empty, and somebody's going to fill it. I know this is a deep passion of yours, and the name of your church that you lead, "The Father's House." The idea of the past passed down, the pass through from our Heavenly Father, out of us as fathers to our kids. Can you talk about that a little further? The thing that we love about God is that He is unconditional in his love and unlimited, and uncompromising in His forgiveness. When we like that about him, we don't find it as hard to give it through ourselves. I think part of being a parent sometimes has got to do with control. We want certain outcomes, and if we don't, we know how to manipulate with silence, manipulate with certain things, how to get it. I think the most important thing is for the children, at least in my book, for my children to always know, no matter what you decide, no matter what you say, no matter what you do, I'm always on your side, even if I don't agree with you, my arms are always open wide, even if I don't like you in this moment. You will always have a landing place, and if you can find me first, I will defend you even if you are wrong. And then we will fix and go apologize. There is unconditional safety and love, no matter what happens, and that is hard. But there is a scripture that says, "It's the kindness that leads us to repentance." Because every time I've gone to God and I think I'm going to get a whooping, I find a scripture on love, and then I go like, "what the heck, this hurts more." Because I thought I'm going to read some judgement over the shepherds right now, and then it's kindness, and I think what brings our children home again and again and again, if they know if they're going to get kindness at home. From kindness flows counsel, from kindness flows correction, but if they doubt that kindness, I think they'll bypass us in time. That resonates deep, and right now, with my three year old, it resonates deep, so I'm thankful for those words. When it comes to shiny eyes, I love to ask the question about moments of wonder, moments of, you could tell your kids were living life fully. Can you think of any stories or moments for your kids, it could be a while ago, it doesn't have to be right now, but things that inspired shiny eyes from your kids? Oh, you know, the thing that is so innate with children is those shiny eyes. Oh, and we bank that those shiny eyes are going to be with us forever, and they aren't with us forever, because we lose our shiny eyes, because life, and the reality of it all comes on us. But shiny eyes for me is a result of a carefree heart and spirit. Here's something that is so great about my dad that I deeply love. He has lived from a place of peace as a default, not as an exception. I live from a place of peace as an exception. So if you go like, "How many times this week did you have peace?" I would go like, "Twice, fo…
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