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image credit | Levi Guzman Season 2, Episode 9: Sitting Around the Fire / Permission to Feel JoyThomas and Panu take a moment to “sit around the fire” at the end of 2022 and winter time in the northern latitudes, as Panu watches the snowy weather in Helsinki, and Thomas muses about world events and his family’s yearly solstice ceremony. Listen in as the pair reflect on global dangers and our feelings about them —ranging from the brutal conflict in Ukraine and renewed threat of nuclear war to new and often unexpressed stress and unease as our seasons and weathers change around the world. And, holding the contradictions: Watching exciting World Cup matches against the backdrop of systemic injustices, and the “holiday season” with its frenetic, electronic consumerism and opportunity for simple, authentic connections with loved ones. Panu and Thomas model the healthy process of ecological conversations: sharing the deep and dark thoughts we have with safe and trusting listeners, bearing witness, and also naturally finding the bright parts of life, gratitude and “permission to feel joy.” Remember, you are not alone. Please find your own healthy rituals. Look forward to more unique episodes of our podcast in the new year and please support us at Patreon and at climatechangeandhappiness.com. Links “Sit Around the Fire” From composer Jon Hopkins with spoken word by Ram Dass Viola Sampson, “Darkening quarter”, in Rust, M.-J. & Totton, N. (eds.) (2012), Vital signs: Psychological Responses to Ecological Crisis. Karnac, pp. 3-16. Available for purchase. And so, I begin to see that this darkening quarter of the year is a turning of fullness and expanding into the darkness. It is an opportunity to stay present to the darkness within and without, and not shrink from the cold or the world's grief. It is an opportunity to inhabit the greater darkness of the Earth, allowing its shadow to imbibe me and draw me inwards and downwards into my roots.Jolabokaflod: An Icelandic holiday tradition to adopt?TranscriptTranscript edited for clarity and brevity. Thomas Doherty: Please support the Climate Change and Happiness Podcast. See the donate page at climatechangeandhappiness.com.[music: “CC&H theme music”]Introduction voice: Welcome to Climate Change and Happiness, an international podcast that explores the personal side of climate change. Your feelings, what the crisis means to you, and how to cope and thrive. And now, your hosts, Thomas Doherty and Panu Pihkala.Thomas Doherty: Well, hello, I'm Thomas Doherty. Panu Pihkala: And I am Panu Pihkala. Doherty: And welcome to Climate Change and Happiness. This is our podcast. Our show for people around the globe who are thinking and most importantly, feeling—take a breath there listeners—who are feeling deeply about the personal side of climate change. Our emotional responses. And how all these issues sit with us in our lives. And Panu and I are sitting here toward the end of 2022. And we have a metaphor of we're not personally together, we're drawn together through our technology. But we're metaphorically sitting around the fire here. Gathering our thoughts about the end of the year. The show is a public conversation about climate feelings, climate emotion, some of our professional and our academic research work and our guests and people that are exploring this and also just the personal side. And all you listeners have your own personal side. So we're here to talk about some of this and really have a sitting around the fire end of the year energy for ourselves. And as I talk about these things, Panu , what's up for you there in Finland, near Helsinki at this time of the year?Pihkala: When I look around, from this place, sitting next to the fire, I see a lot of snow, which personally is a great source of joy. And for many Finns, we are a people accustomed to snow. In Helsinki, which is near to the Baltic Sea, it's always been a bit more irregular than inland. And now with global warming, it's been getting even more irregular. We even had one winter a couple of years ago, when we had practically no snow at all. And people were pretty miserable. And no cross country skiing, no going downhill for kids. And even the public health impacts are serious because there's less light and that sort of thing. So now there's lots of gladness, because of the heavy amount of snow. And it's been here since mid November. But of course, as usual in life, there's ambiguities. At the same time, we are living this special time when there's war in Ukraine. And energy transition is going strong in Europe, but still, there's gonna be a lack of electricity in the winter and many people in Finland are also afraid of how high the cost of their electricity bill will be. So this nice snow with winter with cold temperatures is also going to bring some trouble here.Doherty: So yes, where you are in Finland, this terrible war and conflict in Ukraine is very much more present in your daily life [than] for listeners that are not not close to that conflict. And does it cause fear and worry in your family?Pihkala: Well, the human mind is quite adaptive. And springtime was very difficult for many Finns. There was the cumulative impact of the COVID-19 pandemic. And then the war began, and it evoked lots of national traumas in Finland, about the difficult relations with our East neighbor. There's also been lots of great cultural exchange between Finland and Russia. So I definitely don't want to characterize it only as a struggle or rivalry. But there is also the very troublesome history of the Second World War. And we still have people who lived through that period. And it's much present in the national psyche, so to speak, so that's been causing lots of fear and worry and anxiety. But then as the months go on, people have calmed down. And there's been all sorts of actions being done and so on. So it's on the back of people's minds, of course. And this connects with a major theme in our podcast, the impacts of the climate climate crisis. Because that's also something that's there, at least on the back of our minds, regardless of how actively we think and feel about it. Doherty: Yeah, so you know, we're holding this, this podcast. You know, listeners, if you're new, this podcast is our public conversation. And also our personal lived experience of what we feel about the state of the world. I mean we focus particularly on climate and environmental issues. But we have these meta stressors that all of us are holding. You know, the war. Human’s propensity to be at war with each other. And imperialism and fights over resources in this whole geopolitical chess match of wars that Europe has been beset with, as long as we can see in history. And so we're holding space for how war is affecting us, much like climate change. You know, there's direct, indirect and emotional impacts of the war in Ukraine. I mean, it's directly impacting people in Ukraine and in Russia and surrounding areas. The carnage, the destruction, the death, the suffering. You know, it's a true disaster on many levels. And then also the indirect ripple effects of that all through the world. And how it affects our politics and our own economy. And whether we have heat in the winter, you know. And then the emotional impacts of just sitting from a distance and knowing it's all occurring, even if we feel relatively safe, and untouched, where we are. We're not untouched emotionally about all these kinds of things. So just, you know, again, to the listeners, just realizing you're not untouched, emotionally. Your emotions and feelings are activated. You know, your body sensations. All the emotions in your body. And then we're talking about the language for our emotions. Our feeling language. You know, anxiety is another thing for people.Pihkala: Yeah, exactly. When there's so much uncertainty about whether there's gonna be snow, or what the winter's gonna be like. So this snow anxiety or winter longing or winter grief. And the Finnish equivalents are something that I've been often discussing, both in the Finnish media and in some international media also. And we've been thinking together with some colleagues that what kind of social practices would we need to encounter these kinds of emotions and feelings? So perhaps some events, at least talking about it's doing some symbolic actions that go to the territory of art and performance and ritual and so on. But now, we are living in the midst of the snow so no need for that now. And one big dimension of these macro worries, or global stressors is, of course, the threat of nuclear war. And that's something which the war in Ukraine, also fortified and strengthened in many people's minds. And that impact, I think, extends also beyond Europe, but it's probably the heaviest in Europe. But how about you, Thomas, what's on your mind when you're sitting around this fire in the dark time of winter?Doherty: Yeah, so here in the Northern Hemisphere, it's the dark time. So there's this great kind of tug of war between wanting to be quiet and to be comfortable and to, you know, hibernate a little bit. And then also the pull towards celebration and Hanukkah and Christmas and other holidays. And, of course, consumerism and all the advertising and cultural rituals. And then also with the positive parts of gathering with family. And I have family members that are coming into town. Literally, you know, staying at my home and coming to see myself. My daughter is performing in a school Christmas performance the next couple of nights that has all the young people. The school band, all the different musicians in the school. And the choir, and the dancers and artists. All the students put on a winter festival celebration that's quite beautiful. And so just such such warm, positive feelings about all of those kinds of things that are happening all around the world. So just listeners can kind of be thinking about this. Again, holding space for our personal lives. And then also all this heavy stuff with just the tragic human actions in Ukraine and the threat of nuclear war. And I think this time of the year, people will because we are going through a transition of a changing global climate there is loss. Or what we were used to. There's either winter loss, snow loss, because we're letting go of these snow patterns. Particularly people that are mountaineers, or skiers or outdoor people are letting go of what they understand of the winters in some ways. And then, of course, there's summer grief as well, for folks in the Southern Hemisphere. As we know, in places like Australia with black summer fires and things that you know, summer is not the same, either. And so we all globally are being stretched and stressed a little bit. And to try to be, you know, make peace and be comfortable with all these global environmental changes. So just, it seems a little bit obvious to say, but this is just something to hold space for. That we're thinking about and, you know, coping and things like that.Pihkala: Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Definitely. So different cultures, and also subgroups in various cultures will have different things that they hold in great record and significance, and which climate change is then threatening. So I totally agree that there's a great need for cultural sensitivity. And, also, preferably possibilities for people to think about and feel about how this relates to me and the people close to me and the locals. And as you say, Thomas, in some parts of the world, it's more anxiety related to the summer and not to the winter. So that's one example. And I'm also thinking about the discussion we had with Charles Ogunbode and his research of climate change reactions and emotions in Africa, for example.Doherty: Yeah, what did you take away from our conversation with Charles? What are you thinking about?Pihkala: Well, many things as you usually do. And it's fascinating to hear a bit about his perspective on life. But of course, growing [up] in Nigeria, and growing up in Finland are quite different areas and still there can be things in common, like, appreciating the local natural environments or the forms of the modern human world. And so, that always strikes me as great contextual differences, but also, the great deal of things we have in common, just by being human, especially if there's similar value orientation.Doherty: Yeah, I mean this would be the episode that I think will be just previous to this episode for listeners if they're looking. But you know, Charles has studied people's feelings in Africa and East Africa and West Africa about climate change. And really, we talked a bit about that relationship between kind of resignation and fatalism. Like I cannot do anything about this, I have so many other things to think about. I can't really take on this particular global problem. But also a sense of deeper resilience. Well, I'm going to make it through. I've made it through these other problems, too. So all of us, I think, are balancing that sense of, you know, resignation, and also resilience. That we're going to make it through, you know. And again, each listener of this episode has their own personal story. And so just even just knowing that you're not alone. Like we recognize that your story of being in your shoes, with your family, where you live on the planet, you have your story. Herein the Northern Hemisphere, we're in this darkening part of the year. So we want to kind of come together and be inside and think about things. You know, in other parts of the globe, people are outside. It's warmer, they're active. They're called into action and things like that.Pihkala: Yeah, exactly. And one thing that's been on my mind lately is that a long time project of conceptualizing a process model of eco anxiety and ecological grief finally came out as a journal article in an academic publication. Of course, I always try to do those with a style that would be as easily understandable as it can be in an academic publication. And we'll actually talk about that model in one of the forthcoming episodes. So there's very interesting episodes coming up next year. And now, I don't want to go into too much detail now, but in the model test, key dimensions related to action, grieving, and then having distance. And this having a distance can include both self care and avoidance. And I think this is closely related to what you, Thomas, said about the various contexts. And in some situations, people really have to do some distance. So it's not always, always evil, so to say. But it has to be evaluated contextually. That what's the resources of the people to respond? And what are the conditions, both socially and ecologically. But this idea of self care and community care is, of course, something we have been heavily discussing in this podcast also during the year. And that's something that you, Thomas, have been writing about and speaking about for a great number of years. So for me, that's one of the themes that emerges strongly from your written work.Doherty: Yeah, yeah. Thanks, Panu. Yeah, I mean, I think, yeah, I'm really intrigued about your use of the word distance. You know, in your coping model, because I think it's a juicy topic for listeners to think about this idea of distance. Even in our. I mean, I know, here, where I am, in the US, people are often, you know, swept up in the holiday season. And there's positive rituals. And there's also consumerism. And buying things and advertisements. And, you know, so the distance can be jus…
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