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Call and Response Podcast with Krishna Das | Special Edition – Removing the Triggerscover photo: Lonnie Raffray This special edition comes with a special offer from our friends at SoHum Mountain Healing Resort ~When life moves too fast, the body and heart begin to whisper for rest. Ayurveda is the science of life, teaching us how to live in balance with our true nature.SoHum mountain healing resort offers Ayurvedic PanchaKarma detoxification retreats in a calm, supportive environment. You can learn more at SoHumhealing.com and use the code KrishnaDasPK2026 for $500 off on your PanchaKarma retreat! “Through the name, you can actually remove the triggers for those thoughts. It’s a different practice. but pranayama is very useful in calming … It can calm the mind and the thoughts, slow down the thoughts, and give you a little hit. But there’s no destruction of the thinking mechanism or the triggers for those thoughts. It’s temporary, very temporary. But the name is different. That’s what they say. I can’t prove it to you.” – Krishna Das Watch the video: TRANSCRIPT Q: Hi. KD: Yeah Q: Could you tell us about the saints that you met this summer? KD: No. Yes, I can tell you, you’ll never find them. Yeah. Well, I’ll tell you about one baba that we met. He’s easily over 100. He looks like he’s over 100, too. He couldn’t sit up straight, and it … He was in this … his devotees built, like, a little, small little temple room for him, and he would sit in front of the murti and just give out prasad all day. But we walked in, and then there’s, like, maybe 30, 40 people in this tiny room, people sitting on the floor, talking on their phones, dogs walking through, the ladies stalking the men, coming and going, and it was like, it was like walking through somebody’s living room, you know? And yet … But the guy was sitting there, you know? And, we brought some ladoos, and we held them. He couldn’t pick his head up. He’s, you know, he was just sitting like this, but he took a pinch from each tray of ladoo. And his devotee said, “Oh, he accepted your prasad. That’s very good.” And we just sat down on the bench there for about half an hour and just watched this crazy scene, like a circus, you know, people talking, coming in, the baba sitting there, you know. And then we left. It was great. There was a beautiful banyan tree just outside the little room, right on the banks of this river. So, he must’ve been, like, sitting under the tree for 50 years or so, you know. People started coming to him for this and that, and then they built him a room, a temple, and he just sits there. Fantastic. Yeah. I mean, there’s a lot of beings like that all around. And when I was in this place called Amarkantak many years ago, the, the baba I was with was 163, and he was taking us through the jungle, and he was pointing out all these herbs and saying, “You know, this is a cure for this kind of cancer, and this is a cure for that, and this and that, and this and that.” And then there was these little small hills, and he said, “You see those hills?” And he said … I said, “Yeah.” He said, “They’re not hills. Inside that hill, it’s all crystal, and in the center, there’s a yogi who’s been meditating for thousands of years.” Wow. And there were a few of them, you know. He pointed to this one and that one. And then we were walking down the river, and we came to this little area that had a short fence around it, and it was a tiny little ashram, and there was this beautiful baba standing, sitting there, very old, long hair, and very thin, sitting very straight up. And we walked by, and we pranamed to him, and he pranamed to us, and somehow or other he recognized that this baba I was with, who he was. And he said, “Oh, I’m so happy to meet you. I’ve been wanting to meet you for so long,” and, you know, and he told us … He told us two things. He said, “I’ve been going into samadhi for so long these days that I told my devotees not to burn the body until the ants move in.” Okay. Because he goes, “Who knows?” He went weeks at a time. He may not be going … He was not breathing. He’s just gone, you know? And they’ll go, “Maybe he’s dead now? Or wait, did the ants move in? No, not yet. Okay, we’ll wait.” But then he said, “On full moon nights, he’s a … There’s a hill, you know… This is like a little valley with a river, right? And we’re walking down the river. So, on either side, there’s these kind of … So he said on full moon nights, he’s sitting in samadhi facing the river, but from up the hill behind him, he said these two beings kind of float down. One is a male, a yogi about 16 feet tall, and the other one’s a yogini, and she was about 12 feet tall, and they silently float down. And as they pass where the ashram is, they open his eyes so he can see them, and they go down all the way to the river and bathe, and he’s sitting there, you know. And then they come back, and as soon as they pass him, his eyes close again. And he goes back into samadhi. They open his eyes so he can have their darshan. You know, India. It’s just like, what is going on here? Audience Member: You got some real good LSD. KD: Say what? Audience Member: I said you got some real good LSD. KD: Yeah. Yeah, so things like that. Q: So, speaking of samadhi… KD: Where are you? Where are you? Oh, hi. Q: In Flow of Grace, I think you talked about somebody who would, who went in front of you in samadhi, and you said you experienced it once while on LSD and the second time without it. But have you experienced it since then, and can you describe what does going into samadhi and what does that feeling even mean? KD: What, somebody, you’re talking about somebody else? Q: Yeah, in Flow of Grace- Yeah … you said somebody in front of you was teaching you how to go in to meditate and then go into samadhi, and they actually just, like- KD: No, no. Mr. Tiwari was teaching me a prayerd, and he just went into samadhi singing it … Q: Ah. KD: Yeah, that’s it. Okay, Q: Ok, sorry. So can you describe, like- KD: No … what does that mean? I don’t know what it means. I’ve never been there myself, so what can I tell you? Q: But you said you did, right? Like, once, what- KD: Maybe I lied. I don’t know. Or maybe I’m lying now, I don’t know. Q: You’re lying now. KD: You think so? No, first of all, I don’t know. I don’t know what samadhi is. No. I don’t. I’ve had some experiences, but mostly they’re not, describable, actually. There’s been times when I’ve completely disappeared, as far as I know. And then, but I’m still here, so I couldn’t have completely disappeared. So, I don’t know what to tell you. Q: What does disappearing mean? Like, what do you mean when you say, you know, “I completely dis-” KD: You could say “unconscious.” You could say “unconscious,” but it’s not really exactly what it was. But it felt like, kind of… It’s, like, not… It’s like when you go to sleep, but you’re not asleep. You see, that’s why I don’t talk about it. It doesn’t make any sense. Q: Does it happen while doing, the kirtan? KD: It doesn’t happen while driving, as far as I know. Q: Does it happen while doing kirtan? KD: I don’t know. I don’t know what happens when I do kirtan. I’m doing kirtan. You want me to think about it? I won’t. People ask me a lot of times, “What is it, what do you feel when you sing?” How the fuck am I supposed to know? I’m singing. I’m not writing down what happened… what’s happening. Whatever happens, I just let it go. I don’t make a note. Hello, goodbye, Ram, that’s it. And then, but you’re here, that’s the difference. You’re more present. You’re aware of the sound of the name, and, you know, that the bass player’s fucking up again. All kinds of things happening. He can take it. Hello. I woke him up. So, yeah. When you chant, anything you think, feel, if it’s not the name, you just let it go. Because, you see, intellectually, it doesn’t make any sense, because when I say if it’s not the name… okay, the name. But the implication is that that’s just another thing, but it isn’t. That’s the problem with words. You come back home to yourself through the sound of the name, and when you’re home, you’re at ease. Anything can come and go. It makes no difference. You’re home. So, thoughts, emotions, memories, fears, all kinds of things come, but they come and they go. They just flow through. They’re not thinking you. It’s different. It’s just, it’s a figure-ground relationship change, in a sense. You see, this is why we don’t talk about it, because now you’ll think about it while you’re singing. And you’ll think you really should be thinking about it, but you shouldn’t be. You just do it, and whatever you’re thinking, let it go. That’s all. But we think so quickly. There’s so many thoughts that we let go, but we’re still thinking. But that’s why you just keep coming back to the sound of the name. Either outside or inside, it’s still a sound. The silent name is always going on within us, but we have to tune to that. Q: What is the role of other people in all of this? What KD: There are no other people. Q: Well- KD: Okay … Q: We can react to people, we can need people, we can be each other. And in this process that you’re talking about, I wonder how you experience the people around you in the practice. KD: You know, Ram Dass used to talk a lot about roles and souls. Basically, when you say “people,” there’s two levels to “people.” There’s the role of the person, who the person thinks they are. And then there’s the soul. And the soul is the same in every being. There’s no difference between souls. Soul is pure light, pure clarity, pure being, pure awareness. That’s the same in everyone. What’s different is what’s laid over that. So, as we, as you go through your sadhana, your practice, what you see in other people changes, and also what you see in yourself changes. And so how you relate to the people that enter your awareness changes, too. If you’re seeing souls, which is a very advanced state, you’re experiencing oneness, and you might be able to see what that person thinks, who they think they are. But you’re not fooled by that because you see their essence. But until you see your own essence, you can’t see anybody else’s essence. You’re just projecting. But when your essence is open, or when the mirror of the heart is clear of its stuff, then what’s reflected is accurate and deeper than the stuff, because… So, at first, we are always in reaction mode to other people’s stuff. Our stuff doesn’t like your stuff, you know. “But I love you, but my stuff really doesn’t like your stuff, so get the fuck out of here.” But, as you get less attached and identify with your own stuff, you see other people differently. You experience things differently. People who were bothersome before, it doesn’t bother you quite that way. Or who you identified as something before, you don’t see them the same way. You’re not stuck in that reactive mode. It opens up, and there’s much more space in it, and you could call that love. There’s much more acceptance. You can see people’s pain. You can see why they do what they do to each other and themselves, and it opens your own heart, and you no longer judge and react against that because you see how people, what they do, and you see yourself. You know? Okay, we’re pretty… We think we’re on the path. We’re making some effort. All the people… This is a very small percentage of people on the planet doing this. Look what they’re doing. It’s horrific. But they can’t help themselves, and that’s horrific. It’s terrible. But we can barely help ourselves once in a while, and yet we’re ready to judge other people and react all the time. Right? So… not easy. That’s why we cultivate things like kindness and compassion and loving kindness, because something’s going be going on in there all the time. If we just allow those habitual reactive things to go on unimpeded, they just create more of that. So, we try to, through practice, we try to kind of sneak in a little kindness, sneak in a little compassion. We kind of develop different habits of thinking, because it’s just habits all the time. Mindless, stupid, habitual, reactive habits. That’s how we go through the day, most of us, our whole lives. So, what we want to do is create different habits that will bring to us what we want, will free us from that other stuff. That’s what cultivating compassion is about, that’s what loving kindness practice is about, that’s what the repetition of the name is about. Reminding us to come home again and again. Q: Hello. KD: Hi. Q: I have a question about, just the … I guess it’s more like a pragmatic question about arriving at the place that you were just speaking of in yourself, emptying your mind. We have the same thoughts over and over again every day. You know, tens of thousands that are the same as the day before, and letting that go has been really a lot of work for me for many years. And being able to just listen, you know, to nothing. My journey has been through, I think, chanting more than anything, aside from breathwork. And so, I’m just wondering, I don’t know how much breathwork you’ve done in your work with chanting, and how that relates, and if you have any advice on how breathwork and chanting work together, physically as well as just in the sense of letting go. For me, it’s been very helpful, more so than what the deities mean and- KD: So, when, when you mean breathwork, what are you talking about? Q: Well, when we’re chanting back and forth, doing breath holds, like really breathing in, belly breathing, and diaphragmatic breathing, and then holding when, bringing it to the top when, when you are singing, and then out breath when, when we’re chanting outwards- and using the breath to, you know, deepen the chant and allow the thoughts to stop. And just how … has that practice worked for you? Do you know … Like, what do you know about that, and how that works together? KD: I know it ain’t chanting. That’s all I can tell you. Q: You might just do it naturally, because you’re- KD: Yeah, I’m not … I don’t think about that. But breathwork, you can suppress thoughts by calming them, the breathing. But they … You don’t kill them, they just come back. Through the name, you can actually remove the triggers for those thoughts. It’s a different practice. but pranayama is very useful in calming … It can calm the mind and the thoughts, slow down the thoughts, and give you a little hit. But there’s no destruction of the thinking mechanism or the triggers for those thoughts. It’s temporary, very temporary. But the name is different. That’s what they say. I can’t prove it to you. Q: Thank you. KD: But that’s what they say. So, whatever happens, I mean, if you’re chanting the way I chant, I don’t think about anything. I don’t worry about what my breath is doing. I might have to worry about what my stomach is doing, depending on where I’ve been, but, you know, because I have to sing for two more hours before I can get to a bathroom, so. But other than that, it’s pretty much, you know, I don’t really think about it. So, I would, I mean, if you’re … I would experiment a little bit without thinking about breath. Because if you’re thinking about the breath, you’re not remembering the name. You can’t … The mind cannot do two … It’s called “mind moments.” There’s, like, millions of mind moments in the blink of an eye, and the mind can only be in one place at a time, even though it’s, like, a billionth of a second. So, if you’re thinking about breath, you’re not aware of the name while you’re thinking about the breath. You might think you are, but this is a Buddhist, you know, Abhidharma, the Buddhist psychology. They, they, you know, they got it together. They tell you. So, if you’re thinking about the breath, then you’re, you’re not aware of the sound of the name. So, you might want to just experiment a little bit and see how it goes. Q: Thank you. Appreciate it. Q: So, when you were with Maharajji, or the entire group was…
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