Call and Response with Krishna Das

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Call and Response Podcast Ep. 81 | Not Getting What you Want Dec 02, 2025

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Call and Response Podcast with Krishna Das Ep 81 | Not Getting What you WantAlso: Kirtans VS. Bhajans, Judaism, Willpower “If you don’t allow yourself to feel that terrible disappointment and the pain of not getting what you want, you’re never going to move through it to get what you really want. You know, we can’t pretend that we don’t hurt. All of us hurt, that’s the deal. And we have to allow that to be in our lives. It’s a big part of being human, to allow that all the different kinds of suffering and pain, to allow ourselves to feel that. It makes us human and it bonds us with every other being on the planet, because we all suffer.” – Krishna Das Q: Yes. KD: Yes. Sir. Q: Every morning I met, in the place that I go, I have five cats, seven peacocks, several dogs, several other animals, and they all have expectation that they’ll be fed. I try to temper my expectation. What do you say to that? Should I? Or should I expect what they always expect? Not necessarily to be fed kibble or whatever they get, meow mix, whatever, but should I always expect that things that I want to have or think about or whatever, is not expecting something a way to expect it? KD: You mean, can you fool yourself? No. Q: Yeah. In some ways… KD: We can’t. We can’t really fool ourselves. Sometimes you just have to live with the fact that a particular thing you want, you won’t get. You know? Like, I wanted to be 6’8” 240 lbs power forward on a basketball team. But I was 6’1” 185, and that guy used to beat the shit out of me. So, I’m never going to be 6 ‘8” 240, no matter what I do. I had to live with that. And, in fact, you know, in my life, I really wanted to play basketball and I went to, I had a basketball scholarship to Brandeis and before my senior year, I ripped up my leg, ligaments in my right leg, and I didn’t get into shape in time and they took the scholarship back. I was destroyed. That was the only thing I wanted. I mean, I was playing music. I loved doing all that, but I was a basketball maniac and I was destroyed by that. My whole life changed that day that I ripped up my ankle, my leg. It was amazing And it was very painful. So, my friend and I were going to build a Harley. Back in the old days in the comic books, there was a little ad, you know, “Build a Harley Motorcycle.” So, we were going to get this kit for like $10, build a motorcycle and drive out to the West Coast and be lumberjacks. And the basketball coach for Stony Brook called me. It was his first year. His name was Herb Brown, Larry Brown’s brother. He called me, he said, “Hi, Jeff, whatchya doing?” I said, “Well, I’m going to go be a lumberjack.” He said, “Oh, don’t you want to play ball?” Yeah. So, I went to Stony Brook, which was great, because it turned out to be the drug and music capital of the East Coast. I played more games on LSD than any other drug. It was unbelievable. The coach used to have me come sit next to him in the front of the bus and he’d put his arm around me and he’d say, “It’ll be ok, it’ll be ok.” And I’d be, “Ok, ok.” It was amazing. So, you know, you have to live with it, you know. But if you don’t allow yourself to feel that terrible disappointment and the pain of not getting what you want, you’re never going to move through it to get what you really want. You know, we can’t pretend that we don’t hurt. All of us hurt, that’s the deal. You know. And we have to allow that to be in our lives. It’s a big part of being human is to allow that all the different kinds of suffering and pain, to allow ourselves to feel that. It makes us human and it bonds us with every other being on the planet, because we all suffer. And so, it makes you more human, you know? And then you look at other people and you see what they feel, and you can feel that. You can relate. And you know what a person’s going through and that makes you compassionate, without even pretending to be compassionate. You just automatically understand what that person in the street is feeling. And you see somebody yelling at somebody else with terrible anger and you know what that feels like, not only to the person they’re angry at, but what it feels like to be owned by that fierce passionate anger in your own heart that’s burning you alive. That’s just a part of being human. KD: Hello. Q: Hi. I wanted to ask you a question, since you lived in India. What is the difference between kirtans and bhajans? KD: Well, you know, bhajans is usually a story, a song about a story, like something happened in the Ramayana or Krishna’s play, just like gospel songs, but kirtan is the repetition of the Name, only. I mean, more or less. You know, it’s India so anything is good. No problem. But, technically, one thing is one thing and another thing is another thing, you know? But yeah. So. KD: HI. Q: Hello. My name is Maura. KD: Oh, really. Q: How are you? I saw you the other night. KD: I know, I’ve got you down. Q: We were talking. We’ve been talking. I just was, you said the other night when you played with David, you know, you’re just two old Jewish guys playing in a band and I was curious how you feel or felt or where does your Judaism come into play for you. KD: I’m about as Jewish as the pope. Q: Ok. So, there is none. KD: I also, I usually joke, I say, “I’m Jewish on my parents’ side.” I mean, culturally, I’m Jewish. I grew up in that culture to some degree, but you know, I mean, nobody in my family believed in God, believed that there really is something to find in the world other than fighting over the pope’s nose. Anybody know what the pope’s nose is? It’s the part of the chicken that goes over the fence last. That’s what they… at the table they would fight over that. You know, it was… Q: You’ve sat with rabbis, I’m sure. KD: You know, my grandparents were so good to me on both sides. Without them, I would be dead, you know. And I realized later that every other weekend, when I was sent to my grandparents’ house, that’s when my parents went to therapy. You know? So, I got all that wonderful love and caring and affection from my grandparents. Not that my parents weren’t loving, but my grandparents really… so culturally, there was, but you know, the other thing, they never talked about the holocaust. I never heard about it. And all of those people I grew up with, they had relatives there they never mentioned. So, it was interesting. But yeah, you know, and then, of course, my bar mitzvah. I was bar mitzvah’d, you know? So, we had the celebration at this place called the Club Jericho on Jericho Turnpike in Long Island. Really fancy. And by the end of the day, I had like $1,000 in checks in my pocket, people, all my relatives, gave me. My father comes up to me and says, “Give me the checks.” What? “Give me the checks. I have to pay for this.” That’s when Judaism went out the fucking window. Not one minute after that did I ever think I would want anything to do with this ever again. I was thinking of all the porn I could buy. I was 13 and I’d just became a man, so, what else do you do? No, you know, but, later on I came to appreciate it a lot more. I read a bunch of books about the Baal Shem Tov. The Baal Shem Tov was, I believe, was 16th century. He was an incredible saint. And you know what it means, Baal Shem Tov? It means, “The Master of the Good Name.” Hello? The Name. I don’t know, maybe he sang Sri Ram Jai Ram when nobody was looking. The Name, the Name. So, he was incredible. So, I had come to appreciate a lot of that mystical, but you know, I’m a one trick pony. I woke up in India. I always… this is what I do. This is what I am. You know? I can’t do anything else except some things. Q: Hi. Can you hear me. KD: Yeah. Q: Ok. Thank you. I, maybe this is a little bit of a, you know, a for me question, but hopefully other people will appreciate it, too. KD: Don’t have hope. Q: I just want to acknowledge that we’re here in this space, like you had mentioned earlier, we’re here at Dharma’s place and I’ve seen you here before over the years, and I’m wondering maybe, if you could speak a little about your relationship with our teacher and if you want to share a story. Because I don’t really know much about it. KD: Dharma and I have spent very little time together physically, really. We love each other very much but we don’t, it’s never been, we’ve never had a lot of time to spend together. He would invite me to come sing to the teacher trainees at the old place and I would love to do that. It’s just kind of, we kind of know each other and love each other but we just haven’t spent a lot of physical time together. And of course, all the yogic teachers that I know, the older generation, they all used to come to Dharma for teaching. They all learn so much from him. He’s not just a yoga teacher. He’s a yogi. There’s a difference. And he’s a wonderful being. Yeah. Good. Good Being. It’s really not easy to be that. You have to really be that to be that. Ok. More? Or we can sing a little bit. Ok, yeah good. No, no. This is important. I don’t care if you don’t like it. It’s important to me. I go all around the world and I do this people all around the world and I want to tell you, they ask, it’s the same thing every time. Everybody wants the same thing. Everybody has the same issues, the same problems, a slightly different way of… the only place, two places… once, the first time I did a workshop in Zurich, they sat there like this for three hours. When the gong rang at three hours, they rushed me, and they all had questions. I said, “What’s been? For three hours, what have you been doing?” The other time was in Norway, ok. So, everybody, we had great singing, everybody was talking, there was one guy sitting like where you’re sitting, like this, the whole time. He didn’t move for three hours. And I thought, this guy’s a serial killer. What am I going to do with this guy? I’ve got to get out of here the minute I stop singing. So, I tried to get out, but everybody rushed the stage and they were waiting in line to talk to me and I saw he was like, in the line, so I was like smiling, “Hi, thank you, thank you so much.” And then the next one and all of a sudden, he’s there and he goes, “This was great!” All the sweat that I sweated for the first three hours was ridiculous. The guy, he was scary looking. This is why, we live in our own worlds, we’re projecting all the time on everybody else, you know. I don’t know who any of you are. A couple of you I might have some ideas. But basically, when I see you, you know, you’re playing your part in my dream, so I’m really playing your part in my world. Isn’t that incredible. So, when we talk like this we kind of bring the inside out and everybody can share so much of the same stuff. We’re all in the same place. We all want the same thing and we have all the same issues. So, I think this is great. And you came, so screw it, you’re dead. Where was it? Over there, yeah hi. Q: Hi, I have a practical question. KD: You’re asking me practical something? Q: I probably should just email somebody, but it was exciting to ask you directly, and then I have a spiritual question if I get two for one. KD: I’ll see if I can tell the difference. Q: I sing with a few people in Knoxville, Tennessee. And it’s mostly bhajans for Ammachi, the Hugging Saint. KD: Sure. Q: And some Sai Baba bhajans, but I’ve been doing some Krishna Das in the mix and I always feel really guilty because I always think “Oh, you know, should I be paying somebody some royalties, like, if we perform?” KD: 50 cents a mantra. Q: Does it matter if it’s donation? Does it matter if there’s a fee? KD: Nah. Come on. It’s all free. You just, when you buy a cd, you know, then I can pay my rent, other than that there’s nothing you have to do. Yeah, no problem. Q: Thank you. KD: They don’t punish you for singing my stuff in there? Q: Everybody told me not to worry about it, but I’ve got a guilty conscience. KD: I used to sing a lot for Ammachi here in New York when she came but I came once and there was a battle going on for stage time. There were like, a lot of people wanted to sing, and they were like, fighting with each other. I just took my harmonium and went home. I was just like, fine let them have it. What do I care? It’s crazy. The kirtan wallah wars I call them. One in World War Two, Kirtan Wallah War Two. Ok, go ahead. Now, your spiritual question. This is going to be great. Q: It’s probably pretty standard. You tell a great story about willpower and when you learned about the need and purpose of it and I get that, and then there’s also an element of like, about surrender and I feel like I get that, as well, and what I have trouble with is when to do which and the balance between the two. KD: Well, it’s not quite like that, at least as far as I can see. Surrender, real surrender means dropping the separate self, the sense of a separate self, the sense, the belief that you’re you and not that you’re, that you’re actually who you think you are. So, that surrender, being able to drop that and being able to merge into the oneness, and without willpower, there’s not the slightest possibility in hell that will happen. You just don’t drop it. You have to transmute it. You have to let it go. You have to give it away. You have to move it over. You have to look to see through it. You have to analyze it. You have to understand it. You have to see your motivations. You have to be good to people. You have to care about yourself and others. It’s really, it’s the whole path. Surrender is the goal. It doesn’t mean giving up your will to somebody else. It means dropping your separate self and merging with the whole universe. Dropping it, just letting it go. You think you can do that without willpower? No possibility. But we don’t even use our will well. You know? She’s referring to a story I told. What happened to me once, I was in the jungle with this very very old yogi. He was 163 years old. This was back in the 80s. He’s still alive, I hear. I haven’t seen Him for many years. So, we were sitting together, and he looked at me and he goes, and he said, “You have to develop,” he said in Hindi, “Iccha-shakti”. Iccha is desire, shakti is power. Icchashakti is willpower or the power to get what you want. And my thought was, “What do I need that for?” And then he went like, “oh,” and then he did something. He could read your thoughts. It was ridiculous, so then he did something inside of me. He showed me, inside of me, what he saw, and I went, “Oh.” I didn’t see that. And I saw myself. I was doing nothing. Nothing. I was floating. I wasn’t doing anything to help myself be happy, even. I was just, I wasn’t doing anything. It was a really dark time in my life. It was in the 80s. And I saw that I had chains around my own ankles and I wouldn’t let myself go after the things I wanted in life for so many stupid reasons, you know? Oh, I might not get it. What’ll they think. All that stuff. It was amazing what he showed me. And from that moment was life changing in many ways, and it kind of led, it was one step on the, on the path of getting, becoming, starting to sing with people. It was one move in the right direction. Our wills are really compromised by all the conflicting emotions that we have and all the conflicting desires and all the stories we tell ourselves about ourselves that we don’t like. So, we don’t, even when we use our will, our strength to go after something, the motivation for going after that particular thing is very confused. Very confused and it really doesn’t ever give us what we want, what we really want. And then, I saw, wherever that was, over there somewhere, I saw that there wasn’t worldly life and spiritual life. There was just me and my life and I was crippling myself in my daily life, my so-called worldly life. The life of my desires. How was I going to do something in the so-called spiritual realm? With no will, how am I going to calm my mind? It was the same will. There’s not two of me. There’…

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Call and Response Podcast Special Edition | April 8, 2021 Dec 01, 2025

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Call and Response Podcast Special Edition with Krishna Das | April 8, 2021Taking time to look back and move forward. Conversations With KD episodes are derived from the recordings of KD’s online events from his home during the 2020/ 2021 days of social distancing and quarantine from the onset of COVID and beyond. “Shame is a trip we’re doing to ourselves. Forget about whether we’ve actually hurt somebody or not. The feeling of shame, that’s different than remorse, by the way. Remorse is truly recognizing that we’ve hurt someone, wishing that we had not created that suffering and hoping that we don’t create it again, and not just hoping, but doing what’s necessary that we don’t create more suffering again for others and ourselves. But shame, that’s a different thing. Remorse is useful. Remorse of spirit, that leads to, in Christianity they talk about confession. That’s ultimately what confession is supposed to be, giving up the feelings that of shame and stuff like that and starting again. You can’t forget what you’ve done. But what you have done in the past can stop bullying you in this moment if we truly have remorse.” – Krishna Das Namaste, everybody. Welcome to earth. Nice to be here. As you can see, I’m not exactly where I was last time I was somewhere. Now I’m here and through the graces of the Integral Yoga Institute in the Holy city of San Francisco, we come to you semi-live. I had to come out to the west coast for something, and befI had to change my plans before I could get home to do the Thursday night chanting, and so luckily our friends here at IYI manifested this whole thing, just like that. So, many thanks to them. They’re already asleep here, but that’s okay. It just looks like sleep. It’s actually the natural state. We did 53 straight weeks from home, except actually one, when I was recording the audio book for “Chants of a Lifetime.” 53 weeks. And then I got on a plane, and I don’t think I’ll know that I’m actually still alive till I get back home, but I’m doing the best I can. So, some of you may have heard this story before, but imagine how many times I’ve heard it. It was in the temple. It was in the days that we were coming back and forth from Nainital, which was the town nearby and coming to Kainchi, to the temple, Maharajji’s temple there. So, we came one day and as we were sitting there, these two old sadhus walked into the temple, and they were wandering sadhus, monks maybe. And they came into the temple and they asked Maharajji if they could stay for a while, and he said, “Yeah, you can stay. But every day I want you to sit out in front of the Hanuman temple and sing ‘Sita Ram.’ Just ‘Sita Ram.’” For three hours in the morning. Okay. Not bad rent to pay. So, the next day we arrived, and they were out there singing, the two of them, sitting opposite each other in front of the temple. They didn’t have any shakers or bangers or clangers or drums or anything. They were just singing. One of the guys would go, “Sita Ram, Sita Ram, Sita Ram, Jai Sita Ram.” And the other guy would answer, “Sita Ram, Sita Ram, Sita Ram, Jai Sita Ram.” “Sita Ram, Sita Ram…” Back and forth, back and forth. So, we were just sitting, waiting for Maharajji to come out, and this chanting was going on in the background. We heard it. And all of a sudden, I don’t know, something happened, maybe they got bored, so one guy goes, “Sita Ram, Sita Ram, Sita Ram Jaya Lakshaman.” Oh. Jazz. So, the other guy goes, “Sita Ram, Sita Ram, Lakshaman Jai Hanuman.” And before you know it, they’re going, “Rama Lakshaman Janaki…” having a great time. So, all of a sudden, from inside his room, inside a room, you hear Maharajji’s voice yell “Sita Ram!” That moment when Maharajji yelled… I saw the whole thing. I’d heard it, but I hadn’t focused on it. So, they had drifted off. They had just gone with the… Maharajji said, “Sita Ram” only. He said that. They had just gone off on their thing, probably getting bored with just the good old “Sita Ram.” So, he pulled them back and then they followed with that. And for me, that was a really big lesson of coming back. Because what makes this a spiritual practice is that no matter what, our job, so to speak, is to listen, to repeat the name, in this case we’re singing out loud, and hear it at the same time, not just so mechanically that we’re not even paying attention, which is what happens most of the time if we really look, and then when somebody else is answering the call with a response, we’re hearing it again. And the hearing is different than just listening. It’s an inner recognition. We’re hearing it from the inside, so to speak. And as time goes on, we begin to, through the repetition of the name, we begin to spend more time at home inside here.And when we go off in dreams and thoughts and fantasies and emotions and the past, the future, all that stuff, we spend less time in those states. Just take this morning. So, I got up. I got ready to leave to come to IYI here. And I looked around and I did not see my shoulder bag. My shoulder bag had my wallet in it. And I looked all around once. I looked around 20 times, the room. I looked everywhere. It was just not there. So, the adrenaline starts to pump and the panic starts to set in. “Where is it? What am I gonna do? I don’t even have a record of all those credit cards and what should I do? And my vaccine, my two shot vaccine stamp is in there.What will I do? And I won’t be able to get on the plane to go home without my driver’s license.” So, on a scale of one to 10 in terms of from “okay” to “complete panic,” I was at about at 12, but I wasn’t there for long. I calmed my ass down and I thought, “Okay, so where could it be?” I called Whole Foods where I had gone the night before to get some stuff. They didn’t see the bag. Okay. That was one option. But I noticed I didn’t, I wasn’t as gone as long and as deeply as I could have been. It was interesting to me at the time. So, then it turned out I had left it in the car when I went to park and that’s a whole story in itself. So, I ran down to the parking garage and I found the bag in there, but I saw the whole arc of the situation, from the moment I noticed that the bag was gone to the moment I saw it there under the seat, and I saw that really, it wasn’t as crazy as it used to be, you know? Not from my own effort, because when you’re gone, you can’t make that effort to remember. It is very hard, which is why they always say, do practice when you can, because there will be times that you will not be able to even remember what practice is about or what remembering is about. So that’s why we put the time in, even we don’t feel like it, because why would we pay attention to what we feel like? We’re supposed to be listening to the name, or whatever practice you do. So, for me, that was a very interesting moment. And of course it was much more fun that I didn’t lose my wallet. Then, I don’t know how we be right now with all of you. I would be smiling and thinking, “Where’s my fucking wallet…” Whenever we it comes over us that we’re really allowed to come home, that we really can come back to that place inside of us that is love, it is home, it’s just so powerful. Because we’re gone so much. So much of the time we’re lost in our stuff. And adding a practice to our life is what allows us, what creates the openness to return home. The sound of the name is the name of our own true nature, the love that lives within us is who we truly are. It’s the name of that love which lives in each of us, always all the time. Life after life after life, it’s the same. There you see Swami Shivananda, the Guru of this lineage, and behind me, unfortunately. He doesn’t want to be seen right now, Swami Satchidananda. And Maharajji loved Swami Shivananda very much. They were very close. They visited often. They knew each other very well. He came. Maharajji showed up at Shivannda Ashram in Rishikesh quite often, apparently, and it was Maharajji who, you can’t really say “forced,” but encouraged very strongly, Swami Chidhananda to accept the leadership of the Divine Life Society after Swami Shivananda left. Maharajji loved Swami Chidhananda very much. And in fact, a funny story is that one time maybe in ‘68, Could have been ’69, I’m not sure, Swami Satchidananda was giving a retreat at Ananda Ashram in Monroe, New York. And I had heard Swami Satchidananda speak a few times in the city, so I went up for the day, and we were sitting out on the lawn, and next to Swami Satchidananda was this, another Sannyasin, another Baba. Very gaunt. And to me, he looked very fierce at the time and he was just sitting there like this, and Swami Satchidananda gave the talk and after his talks, or in the beginning, he would always go, “Hari Om,” in this beautiful voice. Right? So, he finished the talk and I had my eyes closed, and I was waiting for the “Hari Om.” Instead of the “Hari Om,” there was this, “Sri Ram Jaya Ram Jaya Jaya Ram,”like this, and my whole body exploded. Every nerve went into overdrive, and I was just sitting there like this. I had no idea what was going on. I didn’t know who this guy was. I had heard “Sri Ram Jai Ram” before. I think I had met Ram Dass maybe once or something by now, maybe not. And then I left and I never knew who that Swami was, but that moment did something. Okay. So, 1, 2, 3, maybe four years later, three years later, not sure. Three. I am living at the temple in Kainchi with Maharajji in India, and one day a car pulls up and a group of Swamis came out of the car like bowling balls into the temple, over the bridge, right into Maharajji’s room. And I was standing outside. I noticed this, and then all of a sudden, what did I hear? “Sri Ram Jaya Ram Jaya Jaya Ram…” The same Sri Ram. I went, “What is that?” It was Swami Chidhananda, who came with some Swamis from Rishikesh. They were on tour, and apparently he knew Maharajji very well. He used to come quite often to see Him, and Maharajji would always ask him to sing and actually Swami has written about this particular day. There was some miracle about the number of oranges there that day. The swamis brought five oranges or something like that, and put them on the table in a little bowl for Maharajji near his Tucket. And there were like 20 people in the room and Maharajji started throwing the oranges to people and everybody got an orange, and Swami Chidhananda wrote about that. But the thing that got me, what I realized later, Swami had sung that “Sri Ram Jai Ram” to Maharaji before I met Swami Chidhananda that first time at Monroe. So “Sri Ram Jai Ram” was Maharajji’s joy. The name of “Ram” is what he always repeated. “Sri Ram Jai Ram” was very dear to his heart. So that connection, it was a transmission almost of also Maharajji at the time. And here’s another little story about how much, also, Maharajji loved Swami Shivananda. At one point, one of the very, very original old Swamis with Swami Shivananda, one of his original disciples, I don’t remember, it could have been Swami Krishnananda. It might have been Swami Nirmalananda. I can’t remember which one. He was off, He went, he left Rishikesh to do pilgrimage in the Himalayas, and on his way up to the deeper Himalayas, he stopped at Kainchi, and he went to see Maharajji. He had met him before, and Maharajji looked at him and he said, “Your Guru is sporting like Krishna, but how long can this last? Go right back to Rishikesh now.” He told him to go back to the Ashram. And so that Swami, Nirmalalanda or Swami Krishnananda, I’m not sure, He didn’t really take it to heart. “Oh yeah. Okay. Maybe after,” but he went back down to get his supplies to go up to the high Himalayas, and when he was at that house where he left him in Haldwani, that’s when he heard that Swami Shivananda had fallen ill. So, he finally rushed back to the Ashram, and as a result, he was able to see his guru before he left the body. But the way Mahrarajji said it: “Your guru is sporting like Krishna, playing like Krishna now, but how long can this last?” Because they say there’s a state of consciousness that only Shiva and Krishna can be in without having to leave the body. Only those two beings can hold the intensity of that state of… whatever. Believe me, I don’t know what it is, but I’m telling you about it. So, they say anybody who enters into that state, if they stay in that state too long, the body drops. And apparently, Maharajji knew that it was time for Swami Shivananda to go, so he entered into that state and the body finally dropped off. These guys. This is the major leagues. This is big time stuff. We’re still in little league here. All right, some questions. “Can you speak about surrender? I’m a first responder and I see all that stuff. I want to stay steady.” So, surrender. Surrender is not an act of will, of our will. Surrender comes from grace. We aspire to drop the ego, drop our identification with that. But like Ramana Maharshi says, “If you ask the mind or the ego to kill the ego or the mind, it’s like asking the thief to be the policeman. There’ll be a lot of investigation, but no arrest will ever be made.” So, asking yourself, saying to yourself, “I’m going to surrender.” This is not going to happen. Because the “I” does not want to surrender, the “me.” It likes to act like it will, but that’s just its way of staying alive longer. So that’s why practice is so important, and practice doesn’t mean, you know, when you’re sitting cross-legged on a pillow pretending to meditate. Practice means, first of all, being present with everyone as best we can, that we meet, and bearing witness to their suffering and “the suffering,” our own and theirs, and bearing witness means to be with it without projecting your own stuff onto it. “Oh, I’m so sad. This is so terrible.” We don’t know. We don’t know why things happen. We don’t why they don’t happen. All we know is what we feel in the moment. So, to bear witness is a big thing, and of course, Bernie Glassman, the great Zen master and my very dearest friend, used to speak of this quite often. In fact, this was his, one of his main teachings was to bear witness to the joy and the suffering. Because beings suffer. And when we bear witness, we are with them and that lessens their isolation, that lessens, takes some of the sting away of the pain. We can’t take their pain away, but we can be with them. So, the aspiration to surrender, that’s good, but don’t think that you can do it. When the mirror of the heart is clean of our greed, our shame, our selfishness, all our stuff, when the mirror of the heart is clean of that dust, then the reflection is true and accurate, and at that moment, surrender happens. We may get little hits on the way, of course, of what it might feel like to be less deluded, but surrender is the goal, and the path of devotion is the path of remembering over and over again, remembering “thy will, not mine.” That’s hard, because when we see people suffer, especially for us, the people who are closer to us, it hurts and we want that suffering to be taken away. But if we look at that, we want them not to hurt, so we won’t hurt so much by seeing it. So, there’s a selfishness involved in that, and we can’t accept things the way they are. We want to change them so we don’t hurt. Now that’s a motive that is actually not truly useful. It’s a perversion of real compassion. With real true compassion, Bodhi Chitta, we are not thinking about ourselves at all, but for most of us, what we call compassion is, “Oh, I wish you weren’t suffering so much so it wouldn’t be so hard for me to be with you.” That’s selfish. So, we have to see that stuff and let go and let go and let go, and then… because yes, that’s what we have to do. “How long does one need to chant before he can see God?” How the hell do I know? I’ll let you know. You know? What time is it? You know? Come on, gimme a break here. Maharajji used to say, “Go on, sing your fake lying ‘Ram Ram.’ Go on, keep d…

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Call and Response Podcast Ep. 80 | He Knew Everything. There’s Only One Life Sep 10, 2025

Show notes

Call and Response Podcast with Krishna Das Ep 80 | He Knew Everything. There’s Only One Life “There’s nowhere to go where you’re not going to be. And there’s nothing that you’re going to be doing that’s somebody else is doing. You’re doing everything. So, all you need to add, all we need to add to our lives is paying a little attention to ourselves and why we do what we do and keep trying to clean up our act. That’s all. It’s not, there’s not two things going on. There’s only you and your life and your desires are beautiful. They will never give you what you really want, but that doesn’t mean you have to try to kill them, pretend they’re not there.” – Krishna Das Q: You’ve described to us, what it was like for you and your devotees to be in the presence of Maharajji. If you could just maybe let us have some insight into what was your sense of Maharajji’s, did He understand the depth of the effect He was having on His devotees? KD: He knew everything, you know? Everything. Who was that? Where was the question from? Ok. Yeah, no, He knew everything. Past, present, future. He knew everything you were thinking, everything you were feeling. It was hard to get used to, living in the presence of somebody who knew everything about you, every miserable thought, thing you’ve ever done, and He loved you more than you could ever even imagine loving yourself, or be loved by anybody? That was really intense. And when we could open to it, it was fantastic. But the other times, we just couldn’t bear it, it was like trying to look at the soon. You know, we were just like, whoa, you know? It was interesting. Opening, closing, opening, closing, and then He would look at us and giggle and we’d be open again. Because He didn’t care about our stuff at all. Not at all. He literally didn’t judge us. He knew everything, but He didn’t judge. Q: So, He just loved you? KD: He, well, no. He didn’t just love us. He loved us more than, loves us more than anything and He also was a siddha, is a siddha. A siddha is a being that has the ability to change the situation from the inside. He can ripen your karmas, He can change the way your life is going to unfold, and He did that for everybody that He, with whom He had work to do. And I have no idea how many people that was. It could have been millions and millions of people. You know, we were sitting with Him, I was sitting with Him and like, I was looking at Him and He went like this. So, He’s talking to people and all of a sudden, He goes like this and He saw me looking and He went, “The mind can go a million miles in the blink of an eye.” He just went… and I realized He had just gone somewhere and come back. It’s very extraordinary. It’s, I mean the closest we get to this stuff is kind of science fiction and comic books, you know. It’s just like, we don’t grow up with the capacity, almost, to feel something. It’s like, how many colors are there? Red, orange, green, blue? ROYGBIV, I learned that in High School. Red, Orange, Yellow, Blue, Green, Indigo, Violet. Seven colors? Am I right? But it’s like there’s an eighth color that’s visible to those who can see it. But our eyes, our senses only can see, only can see those seven colors and every combination of that. But there’s an eighth color that’s here all the time but we don’t see it. And that’s interesting because we don’t see it, so we don’t believe it. And you should not believe anything you don’t experience yourself, by the way. Just because we’re talking about this stuff, don’t think you need to believe it. That’s not important. We need to believe ourselves and in ourselves and we need to deal with our lives as they are. Not to fantasize that there’s some other way of being. We have to deal with our shit as it is and learn to let go of it and learn to accept ourselves for who we are as we are and allow ourselves to breathe, really breath and just be in this world. It’s not necessary to believe any of this stuff about India or any of this stuff. It’s not necessary. I’ve been in India more than half my life, more than half, Jesus. Five-Sevenths of my life. And I can’t, I don’t necessarily believe that that stone sculpture in a temple is alive and real, but they do. You know? And nobody ever required me to believe that. Maharajji didn’t make us, He loved us, loves us as we are. He didn’t make us Hindus. He didn’t make us this or that. He helped us become human. That’s amazing. Human. With other humans. Wow. People everywhere. And it’s ok. When we asked Him, “How do we find God?” He said, “Serve people.” What? “What about, how do you raise kundalini, you know?” He said, “Feed people.” Feed people? What is He talking about? What is this? We just weren’t, we couldn’t handle it. It was too subtle. He was telling us not to think about ourselves all the time. Think about others. If we don’t think about ourselves, we won’t be unhappy. Because we won’t be thinking about ourselves. How simple is that? But how hard is it not to think about ourselves, right? It takes practice. So, He said, “Serve people. Feed people and remember God. Repeat the Names of God.” He was very big on that. And He said, over and over again, “From going on repeating these Names of God, everything is accomplished.” He said it. Ok, maybe five percent. Maybe, after 50 years. So, it’s not easy. But that’s what He said. “From remembering these Names, from repeating these Names, everything is accomplished. Everything is brought to fulness and completion.” Period. Amen. That’s the deal. Ok. Let’s get with the program. “I think I want to watch the Giants game.” It’s not so easy. The vasanas of our, of our mind and our own karmas keep propelling us into limited programmed reactive ways of thinking and being in the world everyday. We just can’t stop the flow. There’s no button to push. Nowhere. So, we have to do something. We have to start paying a little bit of attention, add a little bit of practice into our daily lives, start trying to figure out what it is we want. How do we want to feel? What do we want to do? When I started singing with people, nobody else was doing this, really, the way this is. So, I had nobody to follow or to ask, how do you do this? I had to listen to my heart. I had to do what I wanted to do. That’s what I’m still doing. I actually, I can’t believe I can actually live, I can do what I like to do in my life most of the time. How amazing is that? That’s not, you know. I grew up on Long Island, what were the odds of that happening. Right? Not much. So, it’s extraordinary. So, everybody has to find that. And you do it right where you are as your life is, right this moment. Everything in our lives is there. This is our karmic predicament at this moment. Now what? So, there’s no eraser, there’s no spray eraser. You can do like this one, erase him from our life, now that one. No. We have to find a way to deal with this stuff and still learn to listen to our own hearts and what’s good for us, what we need to do. Sometimes we have to do what we have to do and then you’re doing what you want to do because taking care of business is good. And there’s all kinds of business in our lives. Q: Thank you. I do want to thank you for all that you do. You, Nina and everyone, all that you do in giving us, I want to thank you. KD: Ok. Q: I would like to know, in your experience, understanding that Hanumanji is immortal, if you have ever experienced in your relationship with the Chalisa, that He has physically come to sit by you in your chanting, over your 50 years. KD: First of all, about “immortal”: I don’t even know what it’s like to be alive, temporarily. So, immortal is kind of out of the question. I have no idea what that means. However, as far as Hanumanji coming and sitting by me, that would mean that, I don’t see Him that way. I feel a presence and I want to enter into that presence of Love when I sing. That’s my Guru, for me. He hasn’t come like a person or a thing as far as I can tell. That’s not the way I see it. Some people do see those things. They’re open in different ways. I totally honor that. It’s just not my deal. But when I sing, I feel it. That’s why I sing, is that the rest of the day sucks. The only time I’m really happy these days is when I’m singing, you know? But you would think I sang more, but I don’t. Like, I’m sure, you might think, “Wow, Krishna Das, He gets up in the morning, He takes a cold shower, then He eats some vegetables, then He puts on His dhoti and His holy clothes and He sits by the harmonium and goes into bliss.” That’s a nice fantasy. Maybe someday. Probably not this life. I’m doing the best I can. That’s all I can do. What else am I going to do? I try not to give myself too hard a time. But I’m not sure how successful I am most of the time. Ok? Boy, I’m really good at avoiding questions today. Q: Hi. Two quick things. They maybe slightly, they might be slightly different than my colleagues here, but, first of all, did you remember to record the UCONN women’s game before? KD: I did. Q: Good man. Good man. Secondly, it means a lot to all of us that come here and have practiced in this space with Dharma to have you here as the closing act, as it were. KD: Oh, yeah. It’s next week. They’re moving out of here. Let’s stay! We won’t let them move us. Q: I wanted to ask you, very selfishly, as someone who subscribes to the Sirius and listens to your channel often, if you might consider honoring Dharma’s kirtan band with a little more air time? KD: You know, one of the first things I learned to say in Hindi, was “Dekhenge”, which means, “We’ll see.” Is that two question? Oh, yeah, it was. I’m still avoiding them. Good. Keep going. Somebody over here? There. Ok. Good. Hi. Q: Hey, KD. Thanks for coming. KD: Yeah. Q: I’ve heard you talk about there not being a divider barrier between the spiritual life and every day life. Can you talk a little bit about how you build up strength to bring those together? KD: they were always together. There’s not two lives. Are you, like, do you roll out of bed on both sides in the morning? What? There’s only your life. And everything’s a part of it, you know. There’s nowhere to go where you’re not going to be. And there’s nothing that you’re going to be doing that’s somebody else is doing. You’re doing everything. So, all you need to add, all we need to add to our lives is paying a little attention to ourselves and why we do what we do and keep trying to clean up our act. That’s all. It’s not, there’s not two things going on. There’s only you and your life and your desires are beautiful. They will never give you what you really want, but that doesn’t mean you have to try to kill them, pretend they’re not there. That’s what they do. You know, that’s not a good idea, as we know from all the problems with the priests and all the different organized religions, the problem that they never deal with the sexual energy, wind up being destroyed by it. So, it’s just a question of being alive and being true to yourself and learning how to do that, finding out who you are and what you want. That’s spiritual. There’s no “worldly” or “spiritual” as far as I’m concerned, you know. And Maharajji was totally in the world. He was totally available all the time and yet He was also totally present all the time. He never, everything was within that, you know? It’s not like there’s, nothing’s ultimately all good or all bad. It’s always a mixture of stuff. The point is, Buddha was very clear about this when He came out of the jungle. He said, “Oh, monks. Shit don’t work.” “Stuff does not work. Happiness will never come from stuff.” There’s always some dissatisfaction with objects. They never give us what we think they will give us. What we hope they will give us. You can’t squeeze water from a stone. It’s not meant to happen. But if you keep trying to do it, you suffer. Once you give up that activity that causes suffering, then there’s no suffering. If you don’t expect, when you sit down to a big meal, you eat, you eat, you eat, you understand without saying that, tomorrow you’ll probably have to eat again. Probably every day you’ll need to eat again. That doesn’t bother you because you don’t think ultimate final satisfaction will come from that meal. You know, and that’s the way it is with desire. It always has to be one more. More, more, more. Ultimately, we recognize how to live with that by seeing it clearly for what it is. At some point, you might decide to take some time off from your desires and see how that works. Usually, it doesn’t work very well. But, it’s useful to play with that and see how you are. But then you can, you know, you have to look at yourself. Is it because I’m afraid? Am I afraid of my desires? And if I am, why am I afraid? What’s, what is it? What is that fear? You know, you have to see yourself. You can’t, it’s up to each one of us to move through those places. It takes tremendous courage. It really does. There’s no two ways about that. It really takes courage to face ourselves and the incredible level of bullshit that we tell ourselves all day long. It’s very very very fierce. One time, I was in Mumbai with Maharajji. We had trailed Him. Long story, but we found Him in Mumbai and so, we were in this, every day we’d go to this apartment building, this beautiful new building and He was hanging out there. It was the son of a devotee. So, one day I was sitting, He was up on the bed lying down and I’m sitting, doing my spiritual practice, which was…He would sit this way, then He would sit up, then He would lie down this way. And then all of a sudden, after hours, He sits up like this and He looks at me and He goes, “Courage is a really big thing.” What’s going to happen? So, the Indian guy there said, “Oh, but Baba, God takes care of His devotees.’ Maharajji shot Him a look that could have destroyed a tank or something, and He said to me, “Courage is a really big thing.” Then He laid down and went to sleep again. There have been times in my life that I just had this very vague memory of those words and it was enough to save me from falling off a cliff or jumping off a cliff. It takes tremendous courage to really look at ourselves and see how conflicted we are about letting ourselves be happy. How hard it is to overcome the programs and all the betrayals and all the broken hearts. It’s really hard. But what else are we going to do. Eventually, you just say, “All right, I’m going to deal with this,” and you try to find a way to be more kind to ourselves. Buddha said that you could search the whole universe and never find a being more worthy of kindness and caring than yourself. So. Is that how we feel about ourselves? I don’t know. Only each one of us has the answer to that question. So, the chanting is a way of letting go of the programs for a little while and planting seeds of something else in our being. So, like I said, with Ramakrishna, I didn’t really finish that whole thing. So, the seeds of the repetition of the Name start growing at some point when the causes and conditions are good and then they destroy that house and He said, that house is who we think we are, right? So, when we’re no longer thinking that, so a house is a temporary structure and it’s built for a reason and when the walls and the roof are gone, the space was inside the house is just becomes the space that was outside the house. The division is gone. The difference between me and you and me and all the other “me’s” that bounce off each other all life long. That’s gone, and you live in the oneness of it all. You can still see other people. And you can see, and you can react and act with them and interact with them, but you know yourself to be the living inner presence of all beings. You don’t lose anything by not believing you’re who you think you are anymore. You gain everything. So, and you notice what Ramakrishna didn’t say. He didn’t say it’ll feel like this or it’ll feel like that and then you’ll have this. Because i…

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Call and Response Podcast Ep. 79 | Why We Chant Jul 23, 2025

Show notes

Call and Response with Krishna Das Ep 79 | Why We Chant and Why We Chant The Chalisa

“When we do the Chalisa, when we sing the Chalisa, we’re attempting to activate that kind of inner strength that can overcome any obstacle. Hanuman is called Sankata Mochan. Sankata Harana. Karuna Sagara. Ocean of compassion. Destroyer of suffering. Remover of calamities. This is what it is.” – Krishna Das

Q: First I would like, we would like to thank you and the team and Krishna Das for your voice and your chanting. Your chanting echoes in our house for 12 months now, every day, all day. My wife here, she’s “Stop with this Om Namah Shivaya, right?” So, thank you very much for that.

KD: You’re welcome.

Q: I think all of us thank you for that. It’s amazing. I have two questions, if I may. One, I listen to Hare Krishna, Hare Rama, Jai Jai Ram, for 15 minutes, 18 minutes every day as I walk to work, all day. And I’m asking myself, “Why do I listen to it?”

KD: What?

Q: Sorry, why do I listen to these four words that you repeat over and over? I feel something. I feel something very strong from these words and I can not explain it in English or in anything. What’s actually so powerful in these words? So, first question, please, why these repeated words are so powerful and makes me listen to it all day every day?

KD: Why?

Q: I do not understand why Shiva, Ram and Jai Ram… I understand there are some Indian Gods, right? And second question, if I may, will you remember the first?

KD: Probably not.

Q: So, second question, please, Om Namah Shivaya, our number one track at home, that I listen to and I love, and I don’t understand why it’s so powerful, again, Om Namah Shivaya, which I understood, is the equivalent to the Hebrew thing for… no? Ram Das said something in the book…

KD: It’s not “Om Namah Shimay… “ It’s “Om Namah Shivaya. Little different. The answer is, I don’t know. You’re asking me why you’re attracted to the Name of God? That’s a good question. I have no idea.

Q: Or why I can listen for 15 minutes to Hare Krishna Hare Rama, Jai Jai Ram?

KD: Only 15 minutes? What’s wrong?

Q: No and then it’s on the repeat. Because it’s a 15-minute track. That’s what you did. And then it goes back again and again and again and again, but it’s a bit, if somebody doesn’t know us, we are like a bit, I don’t know, if they would say, hey, crazy, the people from that street.

KD: Don’t play it loud enough for the neighbors to hear.

Q: I do. I do. I do.

KD: They’re going to come take you away. I had a friend who wrote to me once and she said, she and her husband were getting divorced. And I said, “Oh, I’m sorry to hear that. Why?” She said, “Well, you know, I play your music in the kitchen, in the living room, in the bathroom, in the bedrooms, all around the house and he doesn’t like it.” I said, “Turn it off!” They’re still together. That’s the marriage counseling I do. Turn it off! So, are you really asking that question? I mean, really? Think about it for a second. Amazing. That’s wonderful. Why do you want to think about it and ruin it?

These Names are called the Names of God. God lives within us as who and what we really are. So, when we chant these names, when we think of these names, when we repeat these names, we’re invoking that place within us that’s just fine, that’s ok, that is the ultimate reality that lives within us. And the Names have a magnetism. They do. They have shakti. And each repetition of a Name, one of these Names, is a seed that we plant in our own Being and as time goes on, those seeds grow according to whatever conditions allow them to grow and I’ve told this story many times but I’ll tell it again, in the 1800s there was a very great saint called Ramakrishna Paramahamsa and He described the way this practice of the repetition of the Name works, ok? So, the first thing is, every repetition, every single repetition of one of these names is a seed that gets planted in us. We plant that. Second, as time goes on, these seeds grow, and He said that these seeds grow, and they get caught by the wind, so to speak, and they land on the roof of an old house in the jungle and they get stuck between the tiles on the roof of that house, right? And over time and seasons and wind and rain and whatever, those tiles begin to break down and they start getting soft and then, the seeds of the repetition of the Name start to grow and the roots start to grow, and they destroy the tiles and they destroy the roof of the house. They keep growing and they destroy the walls of the house. Ramakrishna said that house is who we think we are. So, imagine if you didn’t think you are who you think you are. Like, I had this experience once in India where I saw that, I looked up in the sky and I saw this whirling kind of, way up in the sky, and I laughed and I said, “Ha, that’s Krishna Das-ness” and I saw it was thoughts and when I thought “I am Krishna Das” then I thought I was Krishna Das. But when I didn’t, when that thought, “I am Krishna Das” didn’t arise in me, I’m just here, open, at ease. And when I did think I was Krishna Das, I acted like Krishna Das. But when that thought didn’t arise, I was just at peace, open, very very at ease, wonderful, feeling wonderful and then whoop, again. So, I noticed that even when I think I’m me, which is 122 percent of the time. Even when I think I’m me, it doesn’t affect this place of Being. Of openness. It doesn’t affect that. So, I realized, it was ok to be stupid because it didn’t matter. It was just me thinking. Of course, it mattered to me, because I think all kinds of things about myself and some of them hurt, some of them don’t, but it didn’t affect this presence, the space in which we all live, which is alive and full and very beautiful. But you can’t stop your thoughts. Where are you going to, what are you going to do? Get a gun and shoot them? Where are they? I don’t know. So, all you can do is add a practice to your life that allows you to come back again and again and again and eventually, that feeling of being back, of being present, gets deeper and deeper and as you go through your day, you’re pulled into it more easily. You live in it more aware, without effort. So, for instance, there is a place within us that these mantras are going on all the time by themselves and when we remember them, we actually move ourselves into that place for a second and then, of course, our thoughts pull us right out. But we’re actually here all the time. Even though, most of the time, we don’t know it. It’s amazing. We go, you know, most people get born, graduate high school, drink some beer and die and that’s it. They were never here for a moment. Not for one moment were they really present and alive. They were on automatic their whole lives. One thing after the other. One reaction after the other. Bouncing off of this one, bouncing off of that one and then, gone. So, if we’re interested in this stuff at all, it means that we have a longing already. We know we want something. We have a hunger, a longing and that’s enough. Believe it or not. Without that, we have no sense of direction. So, it’s really, if you want to get esoteric about it, which I’m sure he does, is the Name repeating us. You think you’re doing it because you think you are who you think you are, but it’s not that at all. The Name is repeating itself and making you aware of it. So, that’s a great blessing. But we take all that stuff like, you know, “yeah, yeah, sure, what’s on tv?”

Next victim.

You don’t have to stand. This is not Sunday school. Wait a minute, it is. This is Sunday. What’s up?

Q: So, what you just said, I think leads into my question. I want to thank you, first of all, for introducing me to the Hanuman Chalisa because that is so meaningful to me and I heard you say once…

KD: Uh-oh

Q: I know, uh-oh, right? I heard you say once that we say the Hanuman Chalisa not for ourselves but to remind Hanuman who He is. So, can you explain that to me?

KD: No, I can’t. I have no idea what that means. One time, I was coming back, I was in the temple in India and I was getting ready to leave for America and this really, really old devotee, Papa, we called him Papa, I went to say goodbye to him. So, I was in his room with him and he said, “So, do you do a Hanuman Chalisa?” I said, “Yeah, sure. Sure.” “Why?” “I don’t know.” He said, “We do Hanuman Chalisa to remind Hanuman of His strength and to ask Him to come and help us.” So, in the story of the Ramayana, which is where Hanuman comes from, that story, Hanuman is actually a form of Shiva, believe it or not. And Shiva emanated, sent His energy through the wind God. I know you all believe in the wind God. See, when you talk about this shit, it’s completely nuts because nobody knows what the fuck we’re talking about, but we all sit there like, “Oh, yeah, wow, ok.” I’m included. I don’t know who the fuck any of these people are. “Wind god. Whoa.”

I love when people really talk like they know what they’re saying, you know? “Oh, yes, then the sun of the wind…” Yeah, who’s that? The sun of the wind? Ok. Praise the Lord. Anyway, so in the story, Rama, Vishnu, is going to take an avatar form on the earth to destroy the demons, the negativity. So, Shiva hears about this. He probably saw it on facebook. And He decided, He couldn’t incarnate Himself, so He sent His energy through the wind god. The wind god came and impregnated Anjani, who was a Vanar, which is like a half-monkey, half-human and so, Hanuman was born pretty much immediately, and He carried that energy of Shiva, so He had unlimited powers. Now, can you imagine a baby with unlimited powers? Right. Throwing your mother up and juggling your father and mother like this, you know, I mean, He could do anything. So, one of the things, since He was innately spiritual, He used to love to go to he jungle with the Rishis, where the Rishis were doing their ceremonies, and He loved them so much, He would like, throw them up and down and play with them, and they couldn’t do anything because He had ultimate power. He could do anything as a baby. So, they cursed Him that He would only remember His power when He was reminded. So, right after that, He became a good little boy.

And so, when we do the Chalisa, when we sing the Chalisa, we’re attempting to activate that kind of inner strength that can overcome any obstacle. Hanuman is called Sankatamochan. Sankataharana. Karunasagara. Ocean of compassion. Destroyer of suffering. Remover of calamities. This is what it is. Now, look, do I know what I’m talking about? I don’t know. Yeah, that’s why I get the big bucks. But, intuitively, I feel it. Up here, it makes no sense at all, obviously. Flying monkeys? What is this shit? But in here, having been in India and having the blessings to be with some very very very great Saints and wonderful people who really completely immersed in this understanding of the spiritual path, this particular path, I kind of caught it like a bad cold or something like that. So, and of course, being with Maharajji, who we saw Him as Hanuman Himself, I don’t even know how to explain that to you, except that when we’re with Him and when we think of Him, when we are with Him, even inside of ourselves, there’s a depth of feeling and a depth of presence that changes the perspective on what’s going on in the outside world. And the results of that shift in perception is that everything looks different. Everything, things that are negative aren’t as necessarily aimed at me and things that are positive don’t necessarily make me stupidly happy, but it’s a way of being in the world without being completely reactive to the stuff that happens every day. There’s a presence or a space around it all. Just like this room, right? Each one of us are in our own little bubble. There’s a physical bubble, there’s a mental bubble, an emotional bubble. We’re all like, in that bubble, and we’re sitting next to all these other bubbles. But if you just kind of move back this way a little bit, you see all of these bubbles are held in this space, even of this room, and then you think, ok, well, this building is even held in the space of the sky and inside of the sky, everything in this ether, in this space, everything just inside of this space, so, it’s just, loosens up the knots in our hearts. What did you ask me?

There He is out there. He’s roaring out there.

That’s Hanuman farting.

He’s big.

Oh, boy. So, anyhow, that’s the deal. You know, there’s a macrocosm and a microcosm. There’s the stories. We could think, oh maybe this happened or maybe it’s just mythology but actually within us, the same forces exist, the same energies exist within us. And Ayurveda is all about that inner universe, which mirrors the external universe as well. So, there’s some way of understanding all this stuff. But, so you can say, Hanuman gives us the strength to overcome obstacles. But where is that strength? It’s already within us. So, it’s an idea of opening up to that within us, which we don’t really feel most of the time. We feel pretty much imprisoned by our stuff. So that’s why we do these practices. Ganesh is very similar to Hanuman in that way. Remover of obstacles. But that’s mostly in South India. Since I’m from the North, Hanuman’s a lot in the North.

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Call and Response Podcast Special Edition | April 1, 2021 Jul 20, 2025

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Call and Response Podcast Special Edition with Krishna Das | April 1, 2021Taking time to look back and move forward. Conversations With KD episodes are derived from the recordings of KD’s online events from his home during the 2020/ 2021 days of social distancing and quarantine from the onset of COVID and beyond. “Empathy is not exactly compassion, but it’s a good beginning when you start to be aware of what other people are feeling and how they might be hurting and how their pain is causing them to act in certain ways, even ways that might be difficult for you to deal with. So, the development of compassion is to see all that and wish them well and really feel for them, and see clearly that their own issues are causing them to act this way, which is causing them tremendous suffering.” – Krishna Das I lost it there for a minute. it reminded me of what something that happened when we were on tour. I was in Australia many years ago. Ty was still playing with me then. We had started in Melbourne and gone all through Australia, many places, but so many people came in Melbourne that we agreed to come back and do another kirtan at the end of the tour, and by that point, it was really hot. I don’t know. We went in the summer. That was the last time we ever went in the summer to Australia because everybody’s on the beach usually. But it was so hot. We got to the hall and there was no time to do a sound check, and I mean, it was a really fast sound check and I was sweating and there was no air conditioning. I was really cranky. Very cranky. So, I was just really pissed off and just in a bad mood and we started playing, everybody’s singing along, and at some point, in my mind, I just said to Maharajji, I said, “What would it be like if I could really sing to you?” And immediately this wave came over me and I just started going… And Ty was sitting, playing tabla and he was looking over at me like…Trying to follow me. I didn’t know. I was just like, “Ah, Sita Ram…” It was too funny. And finally, I came back to earth and it was just hilarious. I can still remember, the look on his face was like… All right. Let’s do some questions and stuff. Okay. So the question is, “I am in a very weird point. It’s so hard to choose if I want to surrender to Krishna, or if I want to choose the way of the Buddha. Please help me.” Well, ultimately, all ways lead to the same place: our true being; our true nature. I certainly don’t have any answers for you. I do whatever makes me, whatever I feel like doing, and I don’t even know why you think you have to choose right now. Just do something. Maybe it’s just a way of your mind keeping you from doing anything. just do something. And ultimately, little by little, maybe you’ll feel more comfortable in something and that’s what it is. That’s what it’ll be. It’s not such a big deal. Sometimes you feel like a nut, sometimes you don’t. Just go with it. Actually the whole idea of trying to work through this situation is part of your path anyway. So no one can tell you what to do. I do it all. I don’t care what it is. If it makes me feel good or helps me when I feel bad, that’s what I do. Singing to Krishna, singing to Tara, chanting “Om Mani Padme Hum,” which is to Avalokiteshvara Chenrezig, they’re all the same, ultimately. The paths may be taught differently. Of course, if you’ve taken or if you’re going to decide to take a transmission or lineage and join a particular group, well then go for it. Once you join a group, you should stay with it as best you can, unless you find that it’s just, after years, it’s just not working for you. Then I would talk to your teacher and tell him your problems or your situation, but this whole egoistic nonsense of thinking you have… First of all, you can’t surrender to Krishna,anyway. Who do you think you are? Krishna surrenders you when he wants you, not before, and same with the Buddha. You think you’re doing something in Buddhist teaching, supposedly. You think it’s up to you to do the practice. The way of surrender is a very different way of thinking about things, but the path is actually not any different. I mean, the actual results of the path. Yes. Some teachers would say, some teachers of this, Krishna, would say, “Oh no, this is the way.” And some teachers of the Buddhist path would say, “No, they’re not all the same. You have to do it this way.” Maybe they know. I certainly don’t, but I could see that you’re stuck in this point and this is all egoistic nonsense and just, relax. Take it easy. Enjoy life and do what you feel like. You don’t have to make a decision. Surrender happens. It’s not something you do. Your mind, your ego will never surrender. Never. When the grace is there, surrender happens. So, prepare for grace. Purify your heart. Prepare for grace. That’s that path. The other path is a little different, but it depends which type of Buddhism you’re talking about. In Theravada Buddhism, it’s very cut and dry. You do this, you concentrate. This is what you do. This is what you do. In Mahayana Buddhism, you cultivate compassion and the goal is to develop what they call Bodhi Chitta, which is well, there are two types of Bodhi Chitta, but simply, feeling of one with all beings, kindness and compassion and caring for all. And in Vajrayana, it’s also again different. The first basic step in Vajrayana is to unite your mind with the mind of your guru. That’s devotion. So then from there you get, you get the sense of direction and then teachings can be given to you, different types of teachings. So, yada, yada, yada. Just enjoy the fact that you’re totally fucked up and what are you gonna do? A lot of these questions are about, “What should I do if this is happening in my life?” Chant. That’s my answer. I’m not Dr. Ruth. I can’t give you advice, what to do in your life. You have to figure that out. What I can offer you is my practice, which helps me figure out what to do. So, if you do your practice, that’ll help you figure out what to do, hopefully. So, we all have problems in life, and we have to deal with them. And it’s very hard to see them clearly, sometimes, and it’s very hard to know what the best thing is to do, but we don’t have to know what the best thing is to do. We just have to do the best we can and try to work through these issues. That’s the whole path. It’s not like, “Okay, I’m gonna fix my life. Then I can get spiritual.” Whatever that means. No. This is the karmic situation. Find a way to deal with it in the best way you can, and by not hurting others and not hurting yourself. It’s not easy. It’s not easy to distinguish the difference between those two sometimes. And it’s very hard to know what to do, but there’s no playbook here. There’s no book that gives all the answers. There is, but that’s inside your own heart. So, calm yourself down. Chant. Do some practice. Try to become a good human being. And what does that mean to you? Okay? Oh boy, this is a good one. Do we really want to go there? “Why is sexuality such a challenge on the path?” Hare Ram. Well, it’s interesting. A few years ago, I was on tour in Southeast Asia and we were in Hong Kong and I took this shuttle train way up, that goes straight up this big mountain, and then you walk around the mountain, and from the top of the mountain, I looked down on Hong Kong and all these huge skyscrapers were squeezed together, and there were ships in the Harbor and there was more construction going on and it was, you could feel the energy of this place, and I thought, “This is so weird. This, how did this happen?” All we have to do is eat, sleep shit, fuck. And that’s the deal. Where did this come from? How did this happen? That everybody gathers together and business is done and money… I mean, it just looks like… I was astounded by it. It was amazing. So, you know, we’re in human bodies and the body itself has different hungers, not just for food, but it has hungers for sex, for procreation of the race, of the human race, and pleasure, and anything can be a, what’s the word you use? a “challenge,” so to speak, or you can embrace it and try to see what it is. My guru was married and had three children. We didn’t know that when we met him, actually. We only learned that after he left the body, which was very far out, but we’ve, since then we’ve met his children, and so obviously for him, sex was not a challenge. It didn’t seem to interfere with his becoming enlightened. So, we each have karmas to work through. We each have hungers, and it’s, I think, from my experience in my life and the people that I know, you have to eat. You don’t have to overeat, but you do have to feed certain things. And once again, Hanuman, the path of Rama, this type of devotion is not a path of renunciation. I’ve read that sloka many times, that Hanuman not only bestows liberation upon people, but he makes it possible for them to satisfy the desires that will be helpful for them to have to satisfy. So, a lot of times sexuality can be very painful and unsatisfying and scary, and the energy of that can also be very difficult to understand and feel at ease with, but that’s mostly psychological stuff. Animals don’t seem to have a problem jumping on each other at the right times, but human beings have confused pleasure with happiness. And that’s the real crux of the problem. It’s not just sex. It’s food. It’s listening to things. It’s craving pleasure from the outside world. And then of course it changes. It doesn’t last. So that’s one of the real issues. Anyway, good luck. Someone was asking me, the whole time that I knew Ram Dass, “Were there any teachings of his you can think of that didn’t age well or you disagreed with?” I never listened to him about relationships. Never. I barely ever spoke to him about relationships because everything he said just meant no sense to me. It was not something I could work with. And he had issues with his own relationships too, earlier in life, his romantic relationships, sexual relationships. So, it’s something that was… I never spoke to him hardly ever about my relationships. “How does one transition from the body when it’s time? How to let go when the ego is clinging?” That’s a good question. What they say is that the only thing you take with you when you leave your body is your state of mind, and obviously most people in this world don’t work on developing a harmonious state of mind, a wisdom mind, and a mind that understands or feels things in a certain way, in a spiritual way. So, there’s a lot of fear, a lot of clinging when the body is being dropped. The point is basically that, if you don’t practice now, if you don’t develop insight now and understanding now, and don’t develop the ability to let go of negative states of mind now, then you won’t be able to, when the body is dissolving, when your attachment, the connection to the body is dissolving, it’ll be very difficult and maybe painful and maybe scary. So, that’s the idea. One has to work on it now, because certainly, absolutely certainly the time will come when the breath that we take will be the last and how we meet that moment has a lot to do with how we live. You can’t expect to be angry and greedy and nasty to people your whole life, and then be smiling when you leave the body. It’s unreasonable to expect that to go through life, not caring about yourself or others and not working on your issues and just being an emotional mess your whole life, that it’s going to be easy to leave the body in a good way. And the problem is most people don’t really feel, in the west they don’t really believe in rebirth, so called “reincarnation,” rebirth, so there’s no reason to do anything. “I’ll be gone. Who cares?” That’s unfortunately, most likely a mistake, but that’s also karma. And one can always turn within. There is nothing, when it comes to turning within that, and when you really want to do practice and understand the need for it, nothing can stop you from doing that, no matter what’s going on in the outside world. You can always, every moment, be practicing, to just use a phrase. There’s a lot of books on this stuff. Andrew Holecek wrote books. There’s a book, “Living is Dying.” He talks a lot about the Tibetan tradition of hearing in the in-between, which is called the Tibetan Book of the Dead, or liberation in the Bardo, liberation in the in-between states, between death and rebirth. They seem to know what’s going on there. But for most of us let’s become good human beings now. Let’s work with our fear, our selfishness, our greed, our manipulative stuff, and let’s try to expand our hearts now, and that will help us when it’s time to leave. “Do I feel that my bond with Maharajji was particularly special in comparison to other devotees?” Absolutely not. Maharajji made everybody feel that they were special, because they were. They are. That was the amazing thing. Larry Brilliant said, “It wasn’t just that I loved him when I was with him. It was like, I loved everybody.” And conversely, you felt loved in a way, but so did everybody else, mostly, everybody who was attracted to him in a certain kind of way. We all felt that it was special. Every single one of us all sitting around, because he spoke, he would say something to somebody, but another person would get the message. He might tell a story to somebody or say something, and then somebody remembers “I had that dream last night and it was just about that.” And he was doing that. That was happening, let’s put it that way, all the time. So, we all felt special, and that’s not, I don’t think that’s wrong. We don’t think “special.” Like it’s mine and nobody else has it. It’s like we felt loved. Everybody felt loved in a way that we had never felt loved before. So, “How to let go? how to know when to let go and let God? And when to apply, ‘God helps those who help themselves?’” I don’t know. You can let go and let God, and still do what you have to do, and give up the attachment to the results. That’s one thing. But that’s a good quandary to work through in your life. And the more practice you do, the more deeply you move along the path into the heart, those kinds of issues just get resolved themselves. Nor did they really have to be resolved up here. They just dissolve in the heart. So, there’s no quick answer to that, but I just gave one. “How to make Maharajji, Neem Karoli Baba, my guru when he is not physically anymore with us?” It’s not up to us to make him our guru. If you feel attracted to him, it’s because he’s present with you. Why would you feel attracted to him? There’s so many other things to do in life. There’s so many other Babas out there. There’s so many great saints and Siddhas and Devis and Maas and everything out there. If you’re attracted to him, that’s the pull. That’s him pulling you to some degree you might say. You’re not gonna get a certificate of acceptance as a devotee. He doesn’t do that. It’s up to the devotee to follow his heart. And then eventually, you realize, you’ve been thinking you are following your heart, but actually you’re being pulled into your heart by the inner guru. “Do you ever have workshops or courses to teach people to sing or lead kirtan?” No, I don’t. Just sing. Nobody has to teach you. And leading kirtan is not a job. It’s spiritual practice. And I didn’t learn how to do it as much as I just absorbed by singing with people in India. That’s where I was immersed in this stuff for the first time. But Jai Uttal gives kirtan workshops. What does he call them? Something. Where he teaches people how to lead and sing Kirtan. So, if you want to do that, you can do that, but I don’t do it because I just sing, and then you just sing. It’s about love. How do you teach someone how to love? You don’t have to lead kirtan. You don’t have to be a Kirtan leader. If it’s your karma to do that, if it turns out to be good for you, you’ll do it, but it might turn out to be a problem. There’s a lot of egoistic stuff that can go…

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Call and Response Podcast Ep. 78 | Real Happiness and Becoming a Good Human Jul 10, 2025

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Call and Response with Krishna Das Ep 78 | Real Happiness and Becoming a Good Human

“So, the cards are stacked against us in terms of finding any kind of peace of mind. But that’s just the way it is. That’s this world at this time. That doesn’t mean we can’t find it, but it means one has to start paying attention. One has to start looking at one’s self and trying to figure out what you want, what we want. What do we really want? And on one hand, in some way, finding out what we really want is our spiritual practice. It’s not just when we sit down to meditate or calm ourselves down or do some asana or whatever we do. That’s part of it. That’s a method. Why do we do those methods? So, we can have a good life. And so, we can have the strength to become a good human being.” – Krishna Das

There’s a place in our hearts, in our Being, it’s not in our Heart, it’s like, not here or here or here or here or there, where it’s ok. Where everything’s fine. Where it’s all right. Where there’s a core of a feeling of wellbeing. It’s ok right now. Not later. Not when your hair looks better. Right now. And we’ve lost that connection to that place. So, we’re, everything we do is, we’re trying to find that feeling. But it’s not out there. It’s not in anything you can get or hold onto or let go of. It’s who we are. But maybe you notice, we think a lot. Have you noticed that? No? Oh. Ok. Let me say something else then. I wonder if the Giants won today. What do you think? Or are you a Jets fan? Who’s a… they both suck. Give them some time. And then when they win, I’ll be all right. What if they play each other, like today, will I be all right or not all right? You know, there’s never going to be a time when you get it all up here. We’re never going to figure it out. It’s not figure-out-able. Finally, you just stop trying to figure it out and you get tired of trying to make it all right and then, guess what? Then, you notice that it’s all right, but you know, you have to be really obsessively crazy out of your mind trying to make it all right for a long time. Which most of us qualify for. And you know, I’m not making this up. This is what I experienced directly when I was with these great beings in India. They weren’t trying to make it all right. It was just all right. As we are. That’s really hard. Because nobody told us that, you know? Not our parents, not our teachers, not our friends. Nobody told us it was all right. One time, I was sitting in the back of the temple with Siddhi Ma, who was Maharajji’s great disciple, and the eldest son, no, the eldest grandson of a family, the Tiwari family, a very close family of devotees of Maharajji, the eldest grandson was getting married. He was the first one of the generation to get married. So, all the cousins and brothers and cousin brothers and cousin-sisters and sister-cousins, if you know India, some of them don’t even know each other, they all came to get blessings for the marriage, and I was sitting back there and all like, 15 or 20 of these younger people were there and I was just sitting there and I was watching them. There was so much love and affection between these relatives. I don’t know about you, need I talk about my relatives? Anywhow, and I was astounded, I mean, I just, I was just like, I couldn’t believe how much sweetness and joy there was with these kids and Siddhi Ma saw me and She said, “See, Krishna Das? You see? You see what you missed by being born in America?” Ain’t it the truth.

I mean, really, you know. All of Western culture is basically dedicated to fucking us up. That’s what it’s here for. And we’re doing that. Our, all of us, collectively, all of our karmas, debts, this is what we created. The world we create every day over and over. Dedicated to keeping us asleep and unhappy and unfulfilled, because we’ve been trained, and we’ve been taught to believe that we’re going to find that thing outside of our self, whatever shape or form it is, animate or inanimate, a real person or whether it runs on batteries. We’ll find it, and it will make it all right.

Gonna be a fun day.

And, it never makes it all right. It gives us a little pleasure, which releases a little tension, and that’s nice, but that passes, right? Pleasure and happiness are two different things. If you have pleasure, there’s always an opposite of pain. Either the pleasurable experience goes away, or a painful experience goes away and then becomes pleasurable. So, if the pleasurable experience goes away then there’s dissatisfaction. It’s called, “The Pairs of Opposites.” And if you look at life, you can see that. If there’s fame, there’s always shame. If there’s loss, there’s always gain. There’s always two things like that. But happiness, happiness is in that feeling of ok-ness, lives inside of us already. It might be in here. Let me see. Is this going to give me eternal ok-ness? Depends on how high a dose it is. Nice. Temporary pleasure. So, yeah. So, then, you know, if you’re doing some spiritual, so-called “spiritual practice”, look at your motivation. Why are you doing it? One time, I was living in San Francisco and I had this little closet, it was a house with other people, I had a big closet where I could go in and sit down and meditate and I wouldn’t be bothered by anybody. So, I went in, closed the door, lit the candle, lit the incense and then I sat down. Before my ass hit the cushion, I went, “Oh shit.” Because I saw my motivation for meditating. I recognized it was to create a “me” that I could like. Right? Somebody I wouldn’t give such a hard time to like I do all the time to myself. So, then I said, “Shit,” and I left the closet. Now, if I’d stayed in that closet… but I didn’t. But I saw my motivation was self-hatred. So, what can come from self-hatred. Just more nonsense. So, when we sit, when we sing, when we do asana, when we do any kind of, whatever spiritual practice means to you, don’t try too hard. Be with it, you know? Just be with it. You’re not going to be able to take your mind and hold it on one thought. That ain’t going to happen. Not living in New York City or anywhere else on this planet. Very difficult to do that. It takes a lot of serious effort to concentrate the mind that way and it takes a lot of willpower and it’s probably beyond most of us to do that. It’s certainly beyond me to do that. But when I sit, or when I sing, I can notice when I’m, it allows me to notice when I’m gone. And then I just come back. Then I’m actually already back. So, you’re sitting or you’re singing. “Sri Ram Jai Ram Jai Jai Ram,” and you wonder if you set the recorder to get the Giants game, so you can watch it when you get home. “Sri Ram Jai Ram Jai Ram Jai Jai Ram” “Shit did I do that, I don’t know, man, I’m so stupid, I couldn’t do that. Oh. Sri Ram Jai Ram Jai Jai Ram.” That’s what it’s like and that’s what it’s going to be like. There’s no button to find that’s going to make that go away. Little by little, actually, we can calm our asses down, but it takes some regular intention and some regular practice to do that and we’re really busy. All of us. We have busy lives full of all kinds of stuff. So much input from so many directions. So, the cards are stacked against us in terms of finding any kind of peace of mind. But that’s just the way it is. That’s this world at this time. That doesn’t mean we can’t find it, but it means one has to start paying attention. One has to start looking at one’s self and trying to figure out what you want, what we want. What do we really want. And on one hand, in some way, finding out what we really want is our spiritual practice. It’s not just when we sit down to meditate or calm ourselves down or do some asana or whatever we do. That’s part of it. That’s a method. Why do we do those methods? So, we can have a good life. And so, we can have the strength to become a good human being. I’m sorry.

Didn’t anybody tell you, you were human beings? That’s what this is about.

What are you, trying to become a good Martian? You’re not from Mars. Human. Earth. That’s it. That’s the deal. You’re gonna go somewhere else? Where? How? Or you think you’re going to go to some nice blissful heaven world? Forget about it. It doesn’t last either. The only thing that lasts is what and who we really are. And that’s already here. That’s inside of us. That’s looking out of our eyes right now. We don’t see what’s looking out of our eyes. We only see what we see. We don’t see the consciousness, the being, the awareness that is doing the seeing. We’re surging out of our senses towards objects and all we see are the objects, the stuff. And our thoughts are stuff, too. We don’t see who we are. So, as we do these practices, as we start to overcome some of our crazy neurotic programs, we start to calm down a little bit and we stop giving ourselves such a hard time. If we weren’t giving ourselves such a hard time, like if I wasn’t having a thought, “Krishna Das, you’re such a piece of shit, you can’t do anything.” If I wasn’t having that thought, where would that thought be? In the whole universe, it wouldn’t be there. So, if we weren’t constantly telling ourselves, “We’re not enough,” or “We’re too much,” or “We’re this” or “we’re that,” those thoughts wouldn’t be anywhere We wouldn’t be a prisoner of that thought. So, practice means learning to let go of that stuff. Training to let go. Now, it’s not easy to just let go without finding, without bringing in another object that you begin to orbit around. So, maybe you watch your breath. You know, you’re going to be breathing no matter what else you’re doing, so, it’s always there to watch and it’s always there to come back to. So, that’s a great thing. That’s why it’s such a fantastic practice, just being with the breath. You don’t have to make yourself breath. “Ok, now what do I do? No what? Oh.” It just happens. So, you can just be with it. You don’t have to manipulate it. You don’t have to do anything, It’s a wonderful thing to come back to. So, now you’re watching your breath and you, after 20 minutes, you notice you haven’t been aware of one breath. You’ve been thinking about all kinds of other stuff, so you simply come back. Every time you come back, every single time you remember, they say, it creates a deeper neural pathway in the brain. It actually changes the shape of the brain. They’ve proven that now. And so, it makes it easier on the next time, the next time you remember.

Bollywood. Where is that coming from? Outside? Oh. Very nice.

So, anyhow, where were we? We don’t know.

Our minds got, you know, ripped off again. “Ok. Breath. Ok, we’ve gotta come back to the breath. Oh, time to go to work, see ya later.” Boom. That’s how it is. We don’t have, you know, we have to make a little bit of time in our lives just to not do anything. Not even to do meditation. We need to make a little bit of time just to slow, you know, there used to be, they used to have standard transmissions, which are now not standard, where you push the clutch in. You’ve got to push that clutch in every once in a while, and just let the stuff… and be with it and then get busy again when you finish but it’s going to take regular paying attention to begin to become aware of the beauty and the love that lives within us as who we already are. It’s going to take a little paying attention. Nobody can do it for you. Nobody can give you that, because you already have it. There’s no room for anybody else to give it to you. Some great Beings can temporarily point you in the right direction, but you have to take the steps. And so, that’s the deal.

So, I asked Siddhi Ma, after She said that, I said, “Ma, what is it with Westerners? Why can’t we love? We can’t we let ourselves be loved?” And She said something to me. I’m going to tell you what She said. “Well, Krishna Das,” She said, “What were your parents thinking when you were conceived?” Ok, we’ll just leave it there. And then, She said, “What were they eating when you were conceived?” You know, “What was their diet?” You know? Well, you know, meat eaters, of course. That seems to have some effect on the consciousness. And then, She said, “Affection was used to control you as a child.” You know, when you were crying and nasty, they didn’t even want to see you. But you know, you had to be picked up. So, you very quickly learned that to get the attention and the affection you needed, the way you needed it, you had to kind of give them what they wanted. So, affection became a business deal at a very early age and it hasn’t changed. We’re still doing business. What do you think relationships are? Business. “You give me a little bit of that, I’ll give you a little bit of this.” Ok. “You’re not giving it to me? What’s wrong? Oh, you have a headache. Ok. I thought it was me. I was about to go jump of the cliff, but you have a headache. I understand.” See, we can’t navigate this shit. It’s too difficult. So, relationships are business.

So, once I was very in love with someone and I was with my Indian father, Mr. Tiwari, who was a great yogi. I mean, He was totally in the world, He was the headmaster of a big school. He had a large family. But he’d been with Maharajji for 40 years and he was just amazing. So, I was telling him how much I loved this woman and when I finally finished he said, “My boy.” He said, “Relationships are business. Do your business. Enjoy.” He actually told me, “Do my business.” Somebody finally telling me I could be stupid. Gave me permission to be stupid. How great. “Do your business. Enjoy. But love?” He said, “Love lasts 24 hours a day, 365 days a year.” We don’t get it from somebody. We don’t give love. Where is it that you give it? You can give affection, kindness, caring, but love is who we are. Love is in there as we are. But we’ve covered it up. We’re so busy, we can’t look. We don’t know where to look or how to look. And you know, there’s some confusion about the so-called “spiritual path.” We think we have to renounce or deny ourselves our desires. But on this lineage that I’m a part of, Hanuman, there’s a sloka in Sanskrit that says, I don’t remember the Sanskrit right now but it says, “Hanuman gives not only liberation but allows you to satisfy the desires that are useful for you to have.”

It’s not a renunciate path.

The only thing to renounce, ultimately, is selfishness and self-centered seeking of pleasure and avoidance of pain. That’s the only thing we have to renounce. The rest of it, we need. When you’re hungry, you eat. The body has lots of hungers. You have to eat, you have to have certain things. Why not? Who told you, you can’t? You know? Besides my mother? So, we’ve got to get over that. It’s ok to be a human being in a human body because that’s where we are. But that doesn’t mean we have to be selfish and greedy. That doesn’t mean our fears and shame have to control us 24 hours a day. We can come out from all of that. We can come through all of that. But it takes a little paying attention. It takes a little practice. And it takes, also kind of really getting comfortable with the idea that we’re beings-in-progress. We’re working on it.

The post Call and Response Podcast Ep. 78 | Real Happiness and Becoming a Good Human appeared first on Krishna Das.

Ep. 77 | KD and Surya Das on Mantra, Bernie and Hungry Hearts Feb 16, 2025

Show notes

Call and Response Ep. 77 | KD and Surya Das on Mantra, Bernie and Hungry Hearts “There’s no possibility of being truly happy until everybody is happy and these great beings called Bodhisattvas, they are almost, essentially fully enlightened, but they make a vow, they take a vow to stay here in this realm or in a realm that we can access at least for our sake because we don’t know what it’s like, what real love means, so the beings who have recognized what that is, they hang around so we can get a taste of it, otherwise we don’t know.” – Krishna Das SURYA DAS: We’ve been chanting the six-syllable mantra of Tibet, “Om Mane Padme Hung,” the Dalai Lama’s mantra, the mantra of the Buddha, of Great Compassion, Avalokita, Chenrezig, Kuan Yin. “Om Mani Padme Hung”, the Jewel in the Lotus where the Buddha is within our own spiritual blossoming mantra. And cultivating boundless heartitudes or attitudes of noble heart, loving kindness, compassion, joy, equal to all, forgiveness and mercy. I love chanting. Chanting is a big part of the lightening path or the dharmic path of Vajrayana, like so many traditions, like the bhakti tradition and others. It really gets me out of my head, my New York motor mind, motor mouth, into my heart and into my gut and Hara, and Root Chakra, and healing, it’s really healing, the split between body and mind, heart and soul, self and other, heaven and earth, as you become just breath. Inspiration, expiration, the divine sound, shabda, and offer or surrender our bodies and mouths and lungs and throats and breath and energy to that which can come through us and through all together, like co-meditating, inter-meditating, inter-being together, and raise the spirit. KRISHNA DAS: So there’s a part of the practice, a very big part of the practice in Tibetan Buddhism and Buddhism in general, is the offering of the merits of our individual practice for the sake of all others, all beings in the universe, and in fact, it’s taught that the real, the purest motivation that we could have for doing our practice is not just to end our own personal suffering, but also to include, trying to relieve the suffering of all Beings. That means your mother and your father and your sisters and brothers and all the people who beat you up in elementary school. It’s a very, it’s not, it’s a very subtle and beautiful understanding of the way things really work. I think a lot of people in the yoga community and the so-called Bhakti community tend to think that they’re doing their practice for their own sake and that they’re trying to get something that, number one, they don’t have and number two, when they get it, they’re going to hold onto it and squeeze it to death and this is a self-defeating way of going about it. There’s no possibility of being truly happy until everybody is happy and these great beings called Bodhisattvas, they are almost, essentially fully enlightened, but they make a vow, they take a vow to stay here in this realm or in a realm that we can access at least for our sake because we don’t know what it’s like, what real love means, so the beings who have recognized what that is, they hang around so we can get a taste of it, otherwise we don’t know. I mean, I grew up on Long Island. Jesus. You know, there was nothing. Nothing and no one that I met in my life that had a clue. Really. It was extraordinary. He grew up on Long Island. SURYA DAS: I grew up on Long Island. What am I, chicken liver? Chopped liver? KRISHNA DAS: You were on the south shore. They didn’t let us go to the south shore. SURYA DAS: No, I didn’t have a clue, either. I had no interest in these things. KRISHNA DAS: No interest at all. SURYA DAS: And no inspiration to be interested. KRISHNA DAS: We had interest in the sense that we had longing, but we didn’t know what it was for, what we were longing for, because no one around us was manifesting that. We didn’t see it. And I remember, one of the first things that hit me was, I used to be on the track team. I used to throw the discus, you know, this thing would swirl around, so, but I was also smoking a lot of dope and thought I was really cool, so I used to bring this book on Buddhism to the track meets, and in between my discus throwing, I’d read a few lines of this book. And I remember, I opened up this book, I don’t remember which one it was and one of the first things it said is, “In Buddhism, it’s believed that your enlightenment is up to you.” And I read that and was like, when you’re sixteen, nothing is up to you and this book said that the whole thing was up to me. That really lit me up, you know? It’s up to me? Because nothing was up to me, you know? I had to be home by eleven o’clock. I couldn’t drive the car without my mother, you know. I had a junior license or whatever, it was a learner’s permit. Nothing was up to me. And this was up to me, so that was big news, you know, so… But one has to recognize that whatever state one is in, it influences everybody that you meet, everybody in your life and also we are influenced by everybody else in our life, too. So if we’re in reaction mode all the time then we’re always bouncing off of other people like pool balls, like pool, you know, just like bang bang bang and we never get a break from those reactions, so as we deal, as we start to relax our hearts and try to calm our minds a little bit, calm ourselves down, we begin to see how much we’re the slaves of these knee jerk reactions we have to the people in our lives and the events that happen to us all day long and then that’s when, when we notice that, then we start to try to do something about it. Bernie Glassman was a very close friend of mine and he was a Zen Roshi. He held the lineage of an ancient, a very ancient lineage from Japan and he was a recognized master and when his teacher finally died, Bernie took his robes off. He had, previous to this, he would be in the Zen center, and he’d be leading these intense meditation retreats, and people would have all these incredible experiences and you know, Satori experiences they call them, all these amazing experiences, and then they’d leave. And he was doing this. He was facilitating this. But, he had come to realize and to recognize that the only thing that, the only thing that keeps us locked up inside of our, all our emotional programs is our fears, the things we’re afraid of. So he decided to let go of his robes. He took his robes off. He grew his beard. He started dressing like a mensch from Brooklyn and he started going to the places that were the most fearful for us as human beings, the places where incredible suffering had happened, like Auschwitz, like Rawanda, like in Ireland and the terrible times in Ireland. And he would go and he would sit there and he would deal with his fears and he would be with his fear and he would bear witness to the suffering that was going on, that had gone on there and to be around somebody who’s not afraid of their fear is quite extraordinary because we all, we all, we kind of like, we signed a little thing and we won’t deal with it, you know? We’ll be together but we’re not going to really deal with our shit. We’re just going to try to get a little high and have a good time and go home, but that’s no going to work in the long run. Unless we face our fears and, or find a way to witness them within ourselves and outside of ourselves, we will always keep building that wall to protect ourselves from other people. So, in vadryana buddhism, in Mahayana buddhism, the very first thing is offering all the practice we do for the sake of all beings because it’s other beings who we’re afraid of, we think. First of all, we think there are other beings, which is pretty interesting, a nice illusion, so we try to deal with those fears. That’s one of the ways that we kind of can calm that kind of fear down, when we connect with other people from our hearts. SURYA DAS: Sometimes, I feel like KRISHNA DAS: A motherless child. SURYA DAS: Or a mother with child. That our dharma movement in the West, of meditation and yoga and tai chi and chi gong and many things, could easily get overburdened with just, falling into the self help bag and thinking about ourselves and self-development and self-actualization and self-realization, and self-help, but really the dharma is what heals us on outer physical and inner emotional and psychic and energy and really subtlest and mystical levels and liberation enlightenment, awake-ness, oneness with god, whatever you call it, inconceivable transcendental wisdom is possible within that in this life and I think it’s important and I feel, and I’ve been thinking about this a lot and I wrote a book about it, “Make Me One With Everything”, about moving from “me” to “we” and not just seeking self improvement, self help, self realization, but universal awakening. Awakening together. And I think that’s very important for us today, especially in these partisan times. So fractured. So fractious and violent. So I’m making a call or a plea or a calling us out like Rabbi Hillel of old. if not us, who? And if not now, when? The Bodhisattva, be altruistic, compassion, compassionate warrior, the really peaceful warrior code. If not you, who? If not now, when? And each of us has our part to play, large or small is irrelevant. It’s just a judgement. And coming together like this, I believe, has a great and profound effect on quelling a lot of the agitation in the force and on balancing the military activities right across the river and also helping us to not build walls around our hearts. Not just around our country, which I trust will never happen, but not build walls and moats around our hearts out of fear. And if Buddhism, Buddhist thought things or seems to say that there is no self, what it really means is there’s no separate independent, permanent self or identity. Everything is interconnected and changing. We could look into that. I think it could help us release the tight fist, the tight fisted grasping, the grab that things have on us because we grab it. Help us release all these fleeting things that are in any case passing through our fingers so we don’t get rope burn from holding on too tight. That’s the meaning of letting go. It means letting things come and go. Letting be. In fact, I just had a loss recently and my wife passed two weeks ago, Debby. It was a story I wanted to, it reminded me, it was two or three months ago I was across the river at His Holiness Dudjom Rinpoche’s Center, and there was a cremation there of Shenpen Dawa Rinpoche, his lineage successor. And I saw one of my old Lamas from Nepal, [ ] that I hadn’t seen in two or three years. Because I’d been here and staying here and taking care of Debby and things and not going to the East or France where he sometimes is. And I said to him in English, He speaks English, He’s about 60 years old, “Rinpoche, how are you keeping?” which is how people speak English in British-ified India. Not, “How are you?” Not “How are you doing?” like in Brooklyn. Not “Whassup,” or whatever it is now. “What’s shaking?” I said, “Rinpoche, how are you keeping?” This is not a translation, so you can hear it directly, and Rinpoche said, this wonderful, “Not keeping anything, Surya.” I was like, “Whoa… I was just asking ‘how are you?’” Oh, and then He went further and He said, “I’m not Rinpoche anymore. I’m not Tulku anymore. I’m just Pema Wangyal.” He just said His personal name. And then later, one of my students who was there, Drew, he said to me, “Whoa, I talked to Tulka Pema Wangyal, did you?” And I said, “Yeah.” And he said, this is Drew speaking, “Tulka Wangyal said to me, ‘I’m not a Lama anymore. I’m a siddha.’” So he gave me, like, the lesson in humility I needed and he gave my student the lesson in awesome, like, divine pride, transcendental authenticity that he needed. “Not keeping anything, Surya.” That was the message for me a few months before my wife died and other things. So that helped a lot for me to remember that the only true refuge is beyond all these comings and goings, the safe port that we can find under Maharajji’s blanket, in God’s arms, in Siddhi Ma’s arms. I was just looking at that picture over there and getting so much light and love from that picture of our Siddhi Ma, Maharajji’s disciple, and from all of you. We’re all in this together. No one can do it alone. Even the Dalai Lama, lifelong monk, says this, “No one can do it alone.” Because we need to develop empathic and warm, heartfelt compassion as well as transcendental wisdom and awareness and that’s why I love coming here to Garrison, because that’s what goes on here much of the time. And I love chanting with Krishna Das and all of you. It remembers me of when I learned to sing at Maharajji’s ashram. Before that, growing up on Long Island, unlike Krishna Das, who I think dreamt of being a rock start, I dreamt of pitching in Yankee Stadium in the World Series. KRISHNA DAS: Different sport. SURYA DAS: And, I learned to sing in front of Maharajji and learned that no one was listening and I could just really let it go and kind of, it opened my throat chakra, because I let go of my fear, you know, I didn’t really think this… I was 21 years old, I didn’t know anything. But the fears let go of me, in a sense that no one was listening and judging. KRISHNA DAS: Yeah. SURYA DAS: Well, maybe Danny or somebody. But mostly not. KRISHNA DAS: The other devotees were judging. Don’t worry. SURYA DAS: But I was singing to Maharajji and God and they were just nipping at my heels at dinner, or with my own mind’s judgements. But the Big Love doesn’t judge. Non-judgemental Day has already come in the Big Love. KRISHNA DAS: yeah. Yeah to be with somebody who not only knew everything about you, everything, everything, and loved you more than you could possibly love yourself was ridiculous, just ridiculous. Even now, I can’t believe it, you know? And there was no time in that Being, you know? When we were with Maharajji physically, that was the physical plane, but the experience we would have, had at the time, was Being Here, right now. It was no different. It’s hard to explain because people come to me and they, “Oh you were so lucky. You saw Maharajji, you were with a Being like that.” And I said, “Yeah, I wouldn’t wish it on my worst enemy.” Because half the time it was the most extraordinary blissful wonderful experience. The other half of the time was being in the bottomless pit of hell and one of the qualities of hell is that it’s endless, which is why it’s so bad. When you’re in it, it’s always going to be like that and half the time we were with Him, it was like that, until He threw an apple at you or something, or laughed and then you were released from the hell of your personal darkness, which is where most of us live most of the time. And then you go back into it because, “Great, I’m from Long Island. That’s where I live.” In that darkness and then He’d, you know, He’d let us out, and then we’d go back. He’d let us out. We’d go back. He’d help us out. We’d go back. That’s how He taught. He didn’t teach with words. He didn’t write books. He didn’t initiate people. But He shined like the sun and He burnt through our own clouds, you know? And then, then they would come back. And He’d burn through them again. But the quality of those moments was here and now and forever. It wasn’t… when I think of Him now, it’s not now as opposed to then, it’s always here. He’s here. Always here. Which is the only place He could be, by the way. SURYA DAS: The problem is we’re not always here. We’re not always totally here for that. KRISHNA DAS: I’m hardly here at all. You kidding? But once a year, I might wake up for three seconds and be here and that’s when He’s here. SURYA DAS: So, I’m getting tired of hearing this narrative that “I’m from Long Island.” I don’t feel like I’m from Long Island anymore. Do you really feel like you’re from Long Island?KRISHNA DAS: No, I feel like I…

Full show notes at the publisher

Ep. 76 | Judaism, Christ and Namdev Apr 17, 2024

Show notes

Call and Response Ep.76 Judaism, Christ and Namdev “So, Maharajji, it seemed like He started to say something and then His eyes, He just stopped and His eyes closed and He just sat in front of us, perfectly still. We had not seen Him sit still for more than two seconds. It was always fruit in all directions, laughing, joking, barking orders to the people at the temple, talking to this one then all of a sudden, boom. I remember thinking we’d killed Him. He just sat there and it was, the feeling was like the whole world stopped turning. And then two tears came down His cheek. Then He kind of shook Himself. He opened His eyes. He said, ‘He lost Himself in love. That’s how He meditated. He lost Himself in Love. He’s one with the whole universe. He never died. No one understands. No one understands. He lost Himself in Love.’ He immersed Himself in Love.” – Krishna Das Q: Hi, KD. Hello. KD: Hi. Q: How are you? Thank you for being here today. Ok, I was just wondering, you being Jewish, I’m Jewish as well. KD: I’m Jewish on my parents’ side. Q: On your parents’ side? You don’t really practice anymore do you? Any of the Judaic traditions? KD: Anymore? Q: yeah. Or did you back as a child? KD: You know, my family’s about as Jewish as the Pope’s family, that’s all I can tell you. Q: I was reading the Yoga Sutras and they were talking about praying to God, and we were talking about “What does ‘God’ mean to you?” And it was interesting to see how people were like corrupted by religion and how they grew up, and you know, like, originally nobody really mentioned the nature of the “one-ness.” KD: I’m sorry Q: Of their one-ness and what Christ teaches us. But I was wondering, when you came into realization of that and who taught you that and what you thought of before, before like the little bit of your changing “awakening” to realize that and how that helped you. KD: You know, a woman once said to me at a workshop, she said, “Last weekend I was at a Jewish weekend and they say you can’t say the Name of God.” And I said, “Absolutely right. You can’t.” Maharajji used to say, “Go on, sing your lying Ram Ram. One of these days you’ll say it right once. Boom. You’re out of here. The real Ram will come.” So we’re practicing. You can’t say the name of God because God is beyond Name and Form. It’s beyond any concept and anything that comes out of our mouths is a concept of some kind. So, it can’t be God. So, that being said, I remember I actually was bar mitzvah’d and I went to Hebrew school to learn the Haftorah, they call it, and my Hebrew school teacher used to bang his head on the blackboard and said, “If I didn’t see this class, I would not believe it.” And bang his head. Great memories. Yeah, you know, nobody in my family believed in God. Or forget God, nobody believed that they could even be happy. There was no idea of a path. All they did was complain. You know? We had one saint in the family and her qualification was that she did not complain. That was literally, I was told. I said “Why is Bubby a saint?” “Because she never complains about anything.” That was the qualification, you know? You know the Jewish lady sitting around, “Oh, how are you doing, is there anything all right?” You know the joke the old Jewish guy driving, driving though the mountains through a storm and the wind’s blowing and the snow and everything and he drives off the cliff and the car goes down down down, spinning, spinning, spinning and lands like upside down on the branch of a huge tree. So, the highway patrol guy comes up on his motorcycle and he runs down the mountain, he finds the guy, he’s hanging upside down in the car, right? He said, “Sir, sir, are you comfortable?” And the guy goes, “Eh, I’m making a living.” Oh, you know, I’m married to a Brazilian. She does not understand one joke I tell her. It’s torture. Not one. All the years I practiced abuse, being abused by all this Jewish humor I can’t share with her. It’s terrible. So. That’s about how Jewish I am. I don’t know. But like I said, Jesus was Jewish by the way. Did you know that? People seem to forget that, you know; painting Him like a white man with like long, straight hair, blonde. Forget it. He’s about as blonde as Bob Marley. It’s, you know, forget it. That’s not it. You know? And people, He wasn’t a Christian. He was a Jewish guy. They called Him “Rabbi”. For what, you think He was like, the Pope? He was a Rabbi. He just happened to, you know, find Reality somewhere along the line. He wanted to clean up. Just like Buddha did with the Hindu religion, you know. The priests had become all powerful and anybody who wanted to get good karmas had to pay the priests to do pujas for them or ceremonies or teachings. It was the same, all the money changes in the temple, you know the whole story. So, somebody said, “This is not the way it’s supposed to be” and tried to change it and you know. In India, they don’t hang people up quite as easily as they did in those days. Maharajji talked about Jesus, it was so powerful. I mean, He talked about Hanuman, of course, Ram and Krishna and Kali and Durga, but when He talked about Jesus it was, I can’t, I can’t, it was so powerful. Really. I mean, you must have heard me tell this story but I’ll tell you again. So, a Canadian guy came to the temple for the first time and he didn’t know anything about Maharajji, how He was, you know. He didn’t give lectures. He didn’t teach. He didn’t write books. He didn’t initiate people. He just hung around. So, Maharajji says to Him, “Why did you come? What do you want?” So, the guy thought he should give like a you know, spiritual answer, he said, “Well, could you teach me how to meditate?” “Get out of here. Go in the back with the crazy people, the Westerners. Go on. Go.” And as he’s walking away, He said, “Just meditate like Christ. Go on. Get out of here.” So, the guy comes in the back and we, you know, we debriefed anyone who spent two seconds with Maharajji. What’d he say? Then what’d He say? Then what’d you say? And then what’d He say? What did He do? Did He give you fruit? How many pieces? You know. What can I tell you. So, the guy said, “Well, you told me to meditate like Christ.” What? You know? So later on, we’re sitting in the back and Maharajji came to spend some time with us and Ram Das was there and Ram Das said, “Baba, you said we should meditate like Christ. How did He meditate?” So, Maharajji, it seemed like He started to say something and then His eyes, He just stopped and His eyes closed and He just sat in front of us, perfectly still. We had not seen Him sit still for more than two seconds. It was always fruit in all directions, laughing, joking, barking orders to the people at the temple, talking to this one then all of a sudden, boom. I remember thinking we’d killed Him. He just sat there and it was, the feeling was like the whole world stopped turning. And then two tears came down His cheek. Then He kind of shook Himself. He opened His eyes. He said, “He lost Himself in love. That’s how He meditated. He lost Himself in Love. He’s one with the whole universe. He never died. No one understands. No one understands. He lost Himself in Love.” He immersed Himself in Love. That wasn’t my idea of what meditation was, you know? I thought you had to sit down, fight with yourself and beat yourself up and pretend you were meditating. He lost Himself in love. I mean, what else do we want, right? Wouldn’t we like to live there no matter what else was going on? Wouldn’t you like to be in that space where you are open and flowing and connected with everything and at ease of heart with whatever arises in your life? You know? And you weren’t a prisoner of your own reactions and your own knee-jerk reactions and your own programming from the trauma we’ve had in our lives and the pain and the broken hearts. Wouldn’t we like to be free of that? That’s what that is, when we can immerse ourselves in that love that lives within us as who and what we already really are. It’s not something else. It’s really, it’s not something else. It’s who we are. Right now. So, I’m just going to read you this quick little poem I thought of today. It’s from a Saint in India named Namdev. “I have delved into the four vedas”- You know what the vedas are? The ancient teachings. “And I’ve drawn forth their hidden meaning. I’ve churned the six philosophies”- the different dualism, non-dualism, semi-dualism, UCONN basketball, you know, the six philosophies. “I’ve churned the six philosophies and I’ve extracted their essence And I’ve learned the ultimate goal of yogis and ascetics I’ve known the joy of merging in Brahma, the formless Lord Oh, My friend,” says Namdev, “I’ve transcended all this through the grace of the Saints. Realize, realize my mind that the secret is the Lord’s love. The secret is the Love.” That’s the secret. Everything we think we want, everything we’re looking for, the secret essence is the Love. We all want to get back home. Now. He’s a devotee so He, He expresses it in that way, that the grace of the Saints, but a non-dual person would say, “This is your own true nature. This is your essence, is this state of grace and that’s always pulling us home.” It’s like gravity for the heart. The secret is the love and the chanting, all these Names are the Names of that place. So we’re constantly evoking, invoking and evoking that place which is the Love. These are the Names of that place within us that is the Love. It’s not in India. It’s not somewhere else. It’s everywhere. So, anybody have anything they want to say important? Otherwise we’ll sing. Yeah? Ok. Give her the mic. Q: Hi. You talk about the practice helping to move us closer to our true Selves and you’ve brought up trauma. When you’re triggered by that trauma, I guess I’m talking about me, when I’m triggered by that trauma, I experience a paralyzing fear in my heart and I’m just curious if it’s been your experience that the practice will help to ease that fear eventually. KD: Well, there’s no question about that in my mind. However, the issue is, if we do the practice only to lessen the intensity of the effects of the trauma, will it work also? And it will. But, but as you focus, as you focus on other things in your life, those moments, when the trauma arises become and less and less. As you focus on other things. If you focus only on the trauma and you, and you’re, and you do the practice to cure yourself from the trauma, it’s, yeah, sure, of course, there will be an effect but they have this thing, nishkama karma. Nishkama, desireless action or desireless practice, so, not desireless but so, like I said, Maharajji said, “You want to find God. Serve people. Don’t think about yourself.” You know? Right? So, if you’re not thinking about yourself and you start noticing other people more and seeing other people and becoming more sensitive to their needs and who they are and where they’re coming from, you’re just automatically developing a whole other way of going through your day, which precludes that trauma. It might still be there, but it’s not going to get triggered the same way as often because you’re, because even with that, in the presence of that, those issues, you’re expanding in many other directions at the same time and you stop caring so much about that. Right now, we tend to identify very strongly with that and for good reason, you know. It’s powerful issues in our lives. But when you start developing loving kindness, and I know this sounds wimpy. Shit. But loving kindness and caring about other people and thinking about others rather than yourself, you’re just creating a whole new way of going through the day that doesn’t leave space for that. You’re not having to push that away. You’re not having to deal with it directly. Like, I’m taking this medicine for this disease. That doesn’t really have to work exactly like that. And in fact, even if you started with that in mind, which is not bad, I mean, fine, perfect. Over time, the effects, you’ll be thinking about yourself less. And when you’re thinking about yourself less, you know, there’s no room for that to arise. Now, it might arise in certain situations. But there’ll be so much more space around it in a sense, because you’re not, you haven’t been holding onto it with such intensity. You know, you know, so it’s kind of like that. But it’s all good. There’s no, for instance, with the practice of the repetition of the Name, these are mantras. There are many types of mantras. There’s mantras to find buried treasure. There’s mantras to rob banks. There’s mantras to get people to fall in love with you. There’s mantras to become president of the united states. I wish somebody didn’t know that one. But anyhow, the repetition of the Name is good for none of that. It’s only good for one thing. It has absolutely no, it’s only good for love. For finding out who you are. It’s not good for anything else. Those other mantras, you find somebody to initiate you in them and then god bless you, you’ll get it. Then you’ll have to deal with it. So, but this is not good for anything other than opening the heart and purifying the heart and opening it up and giving us more space in our life to be ourselves. Yeah. Good. Nice. Thanks for asking that. Q: Thank you and thank you for sharing your experience and for being so genuine. KD: Yeah. There’s a new movie coming out called “Cracked Up” by a friend of mine and it’s about this comedian, Darrell Hammond, who was on Saturday Night Live, and it’s a documentary about his journey through the trauma that he had and discovering it and how you work with it and how he overcame so much of it and how it ruled his life for so many years and forced him into so many negative and hurtful behaviors and alcoholism and drug addiction, all that stuff. So, it’s really juicy. And it should be, it’s being released next week. So, “Cracked Up,” if you hear about it, go see it. See, in India they don’t talk about this stuff like this. They need some cultural appropriation, I think. They say “Ram Ram Ram” and then they go steal from their neighbor, you know? It doesn’t work. We’re all kind of in the same boat, you know. Maharajji had a great devotee named Dada. Dada means “elder brother.” And Maharajji was, his name was Sudir Mukerjee. He was a communist economics professor who became a devotee of Maharajji and Maharajji would call Him “Dada” which means elder brother, which he certainly wasn’t, of Maharajji’s. But Maharajji told his wife, Dada’s wife, to call him Dada, too. And she said, “He’s not my Dada, he’s my husband.” Maharajji said, “If he’s my Dada, he’s your Dada.” So she had to call him Dada, too. This book, you could read some of these books. They’re out, and stories about Maharajji, and get a feel for how He went through His day, how He lived and how the devotees, how they were affected by Him, how their lives opened up and changed. For instance, this guy Dada, he was, like I said, he was a completely non-religious. He was interested in nothing like that. Totally into his professorship and all that stuff. One day, his wife and his mother, who lived with them, they were going out, and Dada said, “Where are you going?” They said, “Well, there’s a little house across the street and we heard that there’s this saint that comes there every once in a while and we’ve been waiting to hear when he came back so we could go see Him. And we heard He’s there today. So we’re going to see Him.” “Ok, go. Go.” So, they left, but they came right back. And Dada said, “What’s wrong? Didn’t you go?” “Well, yes we went and just as I entered the room, the Saint looked at me, called me by my name and told me to go. But I didn’t go. I sat down and then He looked at me again in a few minutes and called me again by my first name. ‘Kamala, go. Your husband’s friends are waiting for their tea. Go, go. Come tomorrow.’” So, this got Dada curious, right? So the next day, he walks over with his wife a…

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Call and Response Special Edition Conversations With KD January 16, 2021 Apr 04, 2024

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Taking time to look back and move forward. Conversations With KD episodes are derived from the recordings of KD’s online events from his home during the 2020/ 2021 days of social distancing and quarantine from the onset of COVID and beyond.Call and Response Special Edition – Conversations With KD January 16, 2021 “Practice is so important because we plant those seeds of what we want to grow with our practice. It doesn’t mean just meditation practice or chanting practice. It means caring about people, caring about ourselves, caring about the world and offering kindness and compassion to everyone that comes into our lives. But if we don’t plant those seeds, in those moments that get very difficult, like this moment in the world, there’s very little we can do.” – Krishna Das Maharajji said, “Courage is a very important thing, a very big thing. It takes a lot of courage to let go. It takes a lot of courage to do practice, because we don’t know where we’re going, and we don’t know what we’ll find. All we know is that we’re inundated by our stuff, 24 hours a day. In the Gita, Krishna says, “Even the littlest bit of this Dharma, the tiniest bit of turning against the flow of that river of immersion in external sense objects and awareness, sense awareness, just the slightest bit of turning away and back to the source is a huge thing, and only we can do that. No one can do it for us. So, depending on what we really want for ourselves and our loved ones and the planet and the world, that’s what will dictate what practices we do, how we turn within and how much we dedicate to that, how much of our hearts we dedicate to that. You can’t fool yourself, really, because we’re always here, and there’s a part of us that is always knows what’s going on. Even if we refuse to see it, there’s a deeper part of us, that knows everything that needs to be known, but we’re locked out of that place at this point in our karmic predicament. It’s like we have a big, beautiful house, but we’re sleeping on the lawn of the house. We don’t realize that the house is our true home. So we’re living on the lawn. We get a little port-a-potty out on the lawn, a little garden hose to wash our faces. The house is right there. We just don’t realize it. Then when we do realize it, we have to find the key to the door, but at least we’ll be looking at that point. If we don’t look, we don’t find. Okay. Hi. How you doing? I’ve had better years. And worse, I’m sure. Yeah. Well, not a lot worse, actually. I guess the last time I was on was in August, so, it’s been awhile. The way I’m going to phrase this question is going to sound really really dramatic because it sort of feels that way, but hopefully it won’t seem weird. In Christianity, there’s a condition or a state of mind called the Dark Night of the Soul. Yeah. Are you familiar with it? Very familiar. And you know, I feel like I’ve gotten there. Even when I sit in my meditation room, I feel just totally disconnected, and the phrase over the doors of hell in Dante’s Inferno, “Abandon all hope, ye who enter here,” is sort of what I feel like my life is doing right now. The outcome is likely to be that because of things that are going on with my grandsons, of ages 13 and 14, and my daughter, and also just not being able to see my friends in person is really, it doesn’t help at all. So, here I am just to find out what your thinking is about that state, and if there’s a similar state in the Hindu tradition. You know, I just read something about it saying it just has to do with ego transformation, but it doesn’t feel that way. It feels really ego-taking-apart, in a way. So anyway, I appreciate your thinking on that. Have you seen the movie, the short film that was made about Ram Dass? There was a longer film made about Ram Dass by this guy, this English guy that we know, and most of it was clips of earlier talks that he gave way before the stroke, back in the eighties, nineties, early nineties, and we watched it together, me and Ram Dass and a few of the other people who were at the house in Maui at the time, and everybody said, oh, they liked it so much. And I was trying to hide, you know. Then they asked me what I thought and I said, ” Truthfully, I didn’t like it.” And the other thing was, it was kind of weird, kind of creepy, and Ram Dass said, “What do you mean?” I said to him, “Look, you’re giving lectures about suffering and dealing with pain and suffering and all these things, and you’re about to hit the wall at a thousand miles an hour, and you don’t know it.” He’s giving these talks, these lectures, you know. Brilliant. Intellectually brilliant. They’re wonderful. But the guy was about to be smashed against the fucking wall, and I said, “It’s creepy because you can tell you don’t really know what you’re talking about.” Anyway. Yeah. Right. And this is it. This is the stuff. This is what we have to deal with. There’s no way around it. So we keep looking for a cure for it, and that makes it just hurt more. It hurts. It really hurts, especially when those people that we’re very close with bound, by blood and karma, are suffering, and it’s just terrible. But there’s nothing you can do about it. That’s the hard part to accept, and I know you said that to me and other people many times, but I can’t find the key to surrender. If I sit there and I say, “Okay, I have to surrender now. I have to find a way to just give it up, but it doesn’t happen. And you can’t make yourself do that. No, you can’t. So when I hurt my knee in India you must have heard this story, maybe everybody didn’t. So I’ll just tell it briefly I stepped in a hole in the road, snapped my leg, and I woke up the next morning and my knee was out to here. It was all swollen, and I couldn’t hardly walk. So, we were not, supposed to come to the temple to see Maharajji until the afternoon, till about four, but this was first thing in the morning and I thought, “Well, you know, I have to get to the doctor. Otherwise this is really bad. I don’t know what this is.” So, my friend Raghu helped me walk to the temple. I had to lean on him the whole way. I could hardly walk. We get into the temple and I limp up to where Maharajji’s sitting in this middle of this empty courtyard, on his cot, on his little bed. I sit down and I put my leg out underneath the cot because I can’t bend me knee, and he didn’t say anything. He didn’t say, “What are you doing here? Why’d you come so early? Why? What’s wrong with you? Why did you hurt yourself?” He didn’t say anything. He just sat there for a couple of minutes, and I said to myself, “Well, I’m not going anywhere. I’m having Darshan. Let them cut the leg off. I don’t give a shit. I’m right here. I’m not going anywhere.” So then he gets up and he starts walking to the back of the temple and he took the hand of the Indian devotee that was there with him. It was the only other person there. And they’re walking away from where we’re sitting, and the further away he got, the more, he was kind of leaning on the guy, and leaning on him, and it was like he couldn’t walk, and I thought to myself, “He’s taking on the karma of my knee.” You know? At that minute I had that thought, he turned around and basically ran back to the tucket. He plops down and he looks at me and he said, “You thought I was in pain? You wanted to help me?” And he pats me on the head. “Good boy.” Meanwhile, I’m sitting there and I’m thinking, “What is this? What’s going on here?” You know, “What did I do? Why did this happen?” All the time I’m sitting there with him. Later in the day, other Westerners started to show up and at one point, he reaches down into the shoulder bag of this woman, one of the Westerners, and he pulls out a Bible. We started carrying Bibles around because he was always talking about Jesus. So we started reading the Bible. So, he pulls out the Bible. Now he’s not supposed to be able to read English and supposedly he doesn’t speak English, supposedly he doesn’t understand English. So he picks out the book, opens it up like this and holds it up for me and says, “Read this.” And he points to this like that, just like that. So, it was from Saint Paul, Corinthians and it said, ” In order to protect me from the abundance of revelations,” from getting a big head, “it was given to me a thorn in the side, and I beseeched the Lord three times to take it from me. And the Lord said, ‘My grace is sufficient for thee. My strength is made perfect in your weakness.'” Well Ram Dass and I have been talking about this for 50 years, and at one point, he said, “Well, we’re proof of that.” So I had t-shirts made up, one for him and one for me that said “proof.” And the point is this, when we recognize our inability to really do anything, to save our own asses, that’s when the reality of grace shows up for us, not the grace itself, cause that’s always there, but we recognize that power of grace. “My grace is sufficient for thee.” It’s enough, no matter what’s happening to you, and you recognize that by seeing that grace is made perfect in your weakness. You can’t change this. You can’t even change your mind. You can’t let go. You can’t surrender. Recognize that’s surrender and don’t fight against it. And you can’t even stop thinking about it. “Well, that’s not surrender. I haven’t given up. I’m still thinking about it.” Right? That’s because you can’t. “My grace is sufficient for thee. My strength is made perfect.” And the fact that you can’t do a fucking thing to help yourself except bow again and again. How long do you want me to go on? With you I might have to go on for 30,000 lifetimes,. Right. That’s what it feels, like again and again, and it ain’t happening. Yeah. And then you judge yourself, “Oh, I’m still doing this and it’s not working.” Again and again. That’s the recognition of your weakness. And that’s what the Lord said is the way it is. “My strength is made perfect in your weakness.” But do you ever come out the other side of this? I mean, is this this going to be forever? That’s not up to you. Why do you even think about that? It’s not your problem. You’re unable to do anything about it. Just stop thinking about it. You’re just obsessing. This is the program that’s running your whole life, beating the shit out of yourself every fucking moment, and I’ve known you long enough to say that. That’s what you can’t let go of ,beating the shit out of yourself. Stop that first, or keep recognizing that and let go of that. ” There I go again, again and again.” Yeah. But you know, what makes that really hard is that, the fact that I am inadequate is being reinforced by so many other people and circumstances. It has nothing to do with other people. Nobody said you’re inadequate. The Lord doesn’t say you’re inadequate. Well, that was a euphemism for what I really feel like. That was a what? A euphemism for what I really feel like. What I feel like is that I’m useless. Label it, “self evaluation.” Yeah. Again and again, and you’ll see all day long, that’s all you do to yourself is judge yourself harshly. Now that’s a program that’s running. That’s not you. That’s your training. That’s what you’ve been trained in, and that’s where you’ve lived most of your life, judging yourself harshly. Is there really anything wrong with you? Are you really bad? No, you’re not bad. Like everybody else, you’re fucked up. Everybody’s fucked up. That’s what samsara is. That’s where they put us. That’s the prison they put us in here. We’re all fucked up. We’re all hating ourselves, hating others, using others, manipulating ourselves, manipulating others, grabbing onto this, pushing this away, afraid of this, wanting this, ashamed of this, blah-blah-blah. This is the world. This is the world we live in. Everybody’s doing this. Yeah. But you know, it’s my inability to get to that good place that you’re talking about. Nope. Nope. Nope. Stuff. But the thing is… That’s just judgment. Hello? Hello. Hello. Listen to yourself. You’re just fucking repeating the same shit over again. Different words. Same shit. But it affects other people. It affects two kids. Fuck other people change yourself first and everything will happen for other people. If you can’t change yourself, what chance do you think they can change themselves? Can anybody do this for you? No, you have to do it. You can’t do it for somebody else. Once you accept yourself, the vibe will change, totally. But you can’t fake it. It’s not something you can fake. So how many times am I going to have to talk to you about this before it finally happens? I don’t know. As soon as you’re finished, whenever you’re ready. Okay. Just keep noticing. If it’s hard for you to notice, why don’t you get a brick, and every time you notice that you’re beating yourself up mentally, drop that brick on your foot. And maybe you’ll notice it.. Maybe eventually you’ll, ” Okay. It’s enough.” But see, you don’t get enough torture in your mind. It’s never enough for you, but if you actually bang your head on the wall every time you caught yourself judging yourself, you would stop, because the minute you start judging, “That means I’m going to have to bang my head on the wall. I can’t do that. It hurts too much.” So that’ll stop you. Put your hand on the flame, on the stove. Every time you find yourself judging, you’ll stop judging quick enough. You’ll notice it immediately. But right? It’s just too comfortable for you now. This is where you’ve lived your whole life. It’s so comfy. “Oh, I’m such a fuck up. And everybody look what I’ve done. My daughter and my grandson. It’s all my fault. I’m so fucked up.” Listen, girl, somebody did it to you as well. You’re no worse or no better than anybody else. And they have their own karmas. If you want to help them, help yourself first, and then everything will change in your dynamic with them as you change how you treat yourself. But you just don’t notice how hard, even now when we’re talking, you’re still thinking about, “How am I going to figure this out? I can’t do this.” It’s going on in your head and you can’t stop. That’s what I’m saying, wake up. Drop a brick on your foot. After a couple of times, you’ll start to notice. It doesn’t hurt enough. It’s too comfortable. You’re so identified with it. It’s so much Homebase for you. That’s why it’s so hard to stop. All of us. You’re not different than anybody else, and no worse and no better. We’re all in the same stew here. And this is the work we have to do. I didn’t mean to take up so much time. I just realized that I’d take up a lot of time. Other people might have questions. Fuck other people. They’re listening. They’re getting out of this too. This is more judging yourself. Oh, I’m not worthy. I took up too much time. Get over it. If I’m in charge here, if I didn’t want to talk to you, I’d just say, “Fuck off, go somewhere else. I’m finished with you.” Did I say that? No. Not yet. Okay. So, fuck off. We’re finished. Really. You’re so hard on yourself. It’s really heartbreaking. And it breaks your own heart, too. Yeah. There’s a lot of pain in there, you know? And that pain is not yours. That was given to you by the world and by your upbringing and by your karmic predicament, and you, like the people before you just transmitted that. You had no choice. Now you have a choice. Now you have a choice. Now you can do something to lessen the energy that that program rips off from you all the time. But you’re too hard on yourself. You sit for two seconds, “Ah, this is not working, you know, I’ve been doing this for more than 50 years and nothing’s happened.” You know, it just goes on and on, and every time you do it, you actually believe that. Maybe start to think of it as somebody else talking to you. What would you tell that person? You say, “Excuse me? Get the fuck outta here. Who do you think you’re talking to?” But no, because you just believe it. You accept it as if it’s true. It’s not true. It’s a program. It’s a reaction to the…

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Ep. 75 | Humility Mar 28, 2024

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Call and Response Ep. 75 | Humility

Q: I just wanted to mention how 2019 was the year of practicing humbleness for me because it was how I understood love, how to get into somebody else’s shoes in order to understand where they’re coming from so that we can all be at peace. Can you speak about humbleness?

“Our inability to really do anything that’s for our own sake, that will be good for us, that would lead us to happiness, to openness, to being a good human being; our inability, so, the strength of God, of the Universe; it’s all from that place that all goodness comes. Of course, that place is within us.” – Krishna Das

KD: Yeah, hi.

Q: So, I have a hard time being in love and when you have, like, a neighbor that hates you or you hate them and trying to find that place of love

KD: You love hating that neighbor. It’s so wonderful, isn’t it?

Q: So, we play your music and the neighbor hates it.

KD: Ah, good. Excellent. Play it louder.

Q: We do. And so, we also have another neighbor that, her father passed away and she came over crying one day that, you know, “thank you for playing your music. So, it was totally contradictory to…”

KD: Well, put the speakers on that side of the lawn. So, you know, I have this friend who wrote to me and she said, you know, she’s breaking up with her husband and it’s so painful and she wishes it wasn’t happening. So, I said, “Well, what’s going on?” She said, “Well, you know, I love your chanting, so I play it in the kitchen. I play it in the living room. I play it in the bedroom upstairs. I play it in the guest room downstairs all the time.” I said, “Turn that music off and save your goddamned marriage.” So, put the speakers only so that one person can hear it. Leave that poor guy alone, you know?

Q: Well, with that in mind, I just wanted to mention how 2019 was the year of practicing humbleness for me because it was how I understood love, how to get into somebody else’s shoes in order to understand where they’re coming from so that we can all be at peace. Can you speak about humbleness?

KD: I don’t know, you know. I’m so humble, it’s hard to really talk about it. People say that to me all the time. “Oh, you’re so humble.” And I say, “Well, I know me.” But nobody gets it. They think I’m humble. It’s so weird. You know, real humility is the whole thing. Real humility is, you know, so I was in India and I was in a little town called Vrindavan and I was walking down the street and I stepped in a hole in the street and I snapped my leg, my knee, like this, and when I woke up in the morning my knee was like, swollen, like huge, right? So I figured I was going to have to go to the hospital. Now, Maharajji had forbidden us to come to the temple before four o’clock in the afternoon because the local Visa guy, Visa official, was harassing Him about the Westerners. It was politics. He just wanted some money, you know. And Maharajji wasn’t going to give it to Him so He was giving Him a hard time, so but I woke up in the morning with this knee and I thought, “I have to go to the hospital down in Mathura which is the town about 20 miles away, but before I go I should tell Maharajji I was going.” So, with great difficulty, I walked to the temple, leaning on a friend of mine, you know and I limped in, you know, like this and He was sitting all alone on, sitting on His cot, a tucket, they call it, in the middle of the courtyard, a completely empty big courtyard and He was right in the middle of it and there was one Indian guy sitting with Him. So, I kind of limped up, you know, and I pranamed and bowed and I sat down but I couldn’t bend my knee so I had to put my leg out straight underneath the tucket, you know? In India, you don’t really do that. You don’t point your feet towards your teacher. So, He didn’t say anything, right? He just looked at me and then after a few minutes, He gets up and He walks towards the back of the temple and the Indian guy got up and walked with Him because He walked like a two year old, bong, bong, bong, and the people would take His hand and walk with Him, you know? So, He was walking like this and the further away He got from where I was sitting, He started leaning on the guy and worse, like this, you know? And I, it looked like He could hardly walk and I thought, “He’s taking on the karma of my knee.” You know? The minute I had that thought, He turned around and He ran back to the tucket and He plops down, He looks at me and said, “You thought I was in pain? You wanted to help me?” And He pats me on the head. So, He didn’t say anything about, like, “Why did you come? Why? I told you to come at four o’clock.” So, I thought, you know, I’m just sitting here. I’m getting darshan. I’m hanging out with Him. I don’t care, if you can cut the leg off over here it’s fine with me. So, we sat around for a while and I kept thinking, “What’s the karma?” You know, I used to think about these things. Like, “What’s the karma of this knee? I wonder what I’ve done in the past to step in a hole in Vrindavan, such a sacred city. How could this happen?” All day long, yada yada yada. So, gradually, other people showed up and so, there was this woman sitting there, and she had a bible with her because he used to talk to us about Jesus. There’s this little guy in a temple, He would talk to us about Jesus. It was like, what is going on here? You know? It was quite interesting, but that’s another story, so anyway, so He grabs her bible, He opens it up and He points to this, just like this, “Read this.” So, I looked at it and I, it was from Saint Paul and it said, “In order to save me from the abundance of revelations, it was given to me a thorn in the side and I beseeched the Lord three times to take it from me and the Lord said, ‘My grace is sufficient for thee. My strength is made perfect in your weakness.’” So, Ram Das and I had t-shirts made up. I forget what, you know, like, right, we believe, because what that means, I’ve been thinking about this for 45 years and this is…

Our inability to really do anything that’s for our own sake, that will be good for us, that would lead us to happiness, to openness, to being a good human being; our inability, so, the strength of God, of the Universe; it’s all from that place that all goodness comes. Of course, that place is within us. It’s not out there up in the sky, standing around with a long beard and you know. That’s My strength. Capital “My”. That’s the strength of the Lord is within us, our true nature. And everything good that comes in our lives, everything we accomplish, every openness that comes, every compassionate thought, every helpful thought, every kind thought, it comes from that place. Once again, the ego will never do anything to diminish itself. It’s not what the ego does. It wants to live and it takes credit for all kinds of things but the Lord said, “My grace is sufficient, is enough for you.” You don’t need anything but this grace and your weakness, our inability to really do anything on the same level that our bullshit is, to help ourselves, that’s the proof of that. And the fact that we’re here is grace and it’s the grace pulling us into our self. Human beings experience being pulled within as longing. Yeah.

The t-shirt said, “Proof.”

Somebody’s blocking the flow. Somebody’s not feeling good…

So, the idea of grace, that’s a hard one for us, you know, we’re westerners, we don’t know what grace is. And even if we think about grace, we’re taught that grace comes from up in the sky somewhere, somewhere else, but grace is our natural state. It’s who we are. Underneath who we think we are, which is the whole, it’s where all the bullshit is, all the problems is who we think we are. Who we’ve been trained to believe we are by our life experiences, by our parents, by our school, by the students in the school, by the teachers, by the programs, by the place we happen to live, by the culture of that place. This formed us. This is the one lifetime manifestation or what’s the word, this is the karmas that we’re born into and that created who we think we are. But underneath that is the state of grace that we actually are. And once again, Maharajji said, “You can’t, the higher, more subtle states, the deeper states of awareness can’t be done by ‘me’. It’s only by removing the covering of that that that shines more brightly.” Our personal will, we can’t, “Ok, I’m going to go to that state of grace,” I, me, is never going there because me would dissolve in there and I don’t want to dissolve. Me is going to go anywhere else but there. But the longing in our hearts to be free of that me-ness, that prison of our thoughts. Every thought is a prison. Every thought is a prison and you can’t, you can’t think yourself out of a prison that’s made of thought. That’s personal “me” and the personal will, so but we do practice to release ourselves from that prison of thought, into the open space of our true nature, who we are. That’s before we were hurt. Before we were traumatized, before we were beaten up, before our hearts were broken. That place is always here and that’s where we want to be. That’s where we want to live. But ‘me’ is that place of trauma, of pain. To be released from that, some practice, whatever that means to you, whatever you do to help yourself is practice and one thing leads to another.

The post Ep. 75 | Humility appeared first on Krishna Das.

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