Analyze Scripts

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"One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest" w/ Dr. Sulman Mirza (@thekicksshrink) Aug 28, 2023

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Welcome back to Analyze Scripts, where a psychiatrist and a therapist analyze what Hollywood gets right and wrong about mental health. Today, we are joined by triple board certified psychiatist Dr. Sulman Mirza AKA @thekicksshrink. We are blown away by the lasting impact of this movie from 1975 on the field of psychiatry and psychology. We discuss the sociopathy of Randle McMurphy and the iconic villain, Nurse Ratchet. We wrap it up with our frustration in the field, both in the past and present...like with lobotomies, ETC depictions, ODD diagnoses and more. We hope you enjoy!InstagramTik TokWebsiteDr. Katrina Furey MD: Hi, I'm Dr. Katrina Fieri, a psychiatrist.Portia Pendleton LCSW: And I'm Portia Pendleton, a licensed clinical social worker.Dr. Katrina Furey MD: And this is Analyze Scripts, a podcast where two shrinks analyze the depiction of mental health in movies and TV shows.Portia Pendleton LCSW: Our hope is that you learn some legit info about mental health while feeling like you're chatting with your girlfriends.Dr. Katrina Furey MD: There is so much misinformation out there and it drives us nuts.Portia Pendleton LCSW: And if someday we pay off our student loans or land a sponsorship, like.Dr. Katrina Furey MD: With a lay flat airline or a major beauty brand, even better. So sit back, relax, grab some popcorn and your DSM Five and enjoy. Welcome back to Analyze scripts. We are so excited you're joining us today for an episode about the classic, I guess I think in a Bad Way film, one Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest. We're thrilled to be joined by Dr. Sulman Merza, who is a triple board certified psychiatrist with expertise in psychiatry, child and adolescent psychiatry, and addiction medicine. I would call that a triple threat. He completed his psychiatry residency at Virginia Commonwealth University in Richmond, Virginia. His Child and Adolescent Psychiatry Fellowship at the University of Maryland and Shepherd Pratt Hospital in Baltimore, Maryland. He's had the privilege to work in a variety of settings, from inpatient psychiatric units with medical capabilities to the classrooms of Baltimore City Public schools. He's learned from some of the leaders and pioneers in the field of psychiatry, and his experiences have allowed him to develop a deep understanding of neuropsychiatric conditions in both children and adults. And he has a keen knack for the Internet, and you can find him at the Kick Shrink on Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube. And I have to say, Sulan, I love your videos. I feel like they're very visually appealing. But also the content is so great. You really have a way of putting out a lot of really accurate, detailed information in a really entertaining, easy to digest way, and I think that is really hard to do. So I just want to give you some props for that. I don't know if we still say props, but I feel like I'm really impressed. We can still say that. No, I'm really honestly impressed. I feel like you have themes where you do medication. Saturday, I'm not going to remember all the names off the top of my head, but then there's like, historical lessons. There's a lot of good info about ADHD I've told you offline. I love your stuff about WWE. I think it's really great. So I hope everyone goes to check them out.Dr. Sulman Mirza MD: Yeah. Thank you both for having me on here. Really excited I came across you guys, I was like, oh, my God, I love the movies and entertainment and pop culture. And I was like, this is and I love kind of bringing psychiatry psychology into all of that because so much of that is present. So I was like, let's see if we can collaborate on something.Dr. Katrina Furey MD: Yeah. No, we're thrilled.Portia Pendleton LCSW: And we chose this movie and book. So the book came out in 1962 with the movie 1975. I had never seen this movie, but I had heard of it, which I think is part of our discussion with how powerful this was that kind of shaping people's views of psychiatry inpatient care and treatments.Dr. Katrina Furey MD: Right, right. I think it's so true. We were talking about with Dr. Jesse Gold in our most recent episode about season two of Yellow Jackets, which has another awful scene about ECT. Again, just how this film has permeated through our culture. Even if you haven't seen it, like, you're saying you haven't seen it, but you know of it, and it's like it's had this really long lasting, unfortunate impact, which is ironic because apparently it won a Bazillion. Academy Awards, made a lot of money, it was very well received, it won all these awards, and yet it was awful in terms of its portrayal of mental health care.Dr. Sulman Mirza MD: Yeah. The history of film, it's one of the few movies that has gotten has won the big five awards, right. Best picture, best director, best actor, best actress and then best adapted screenplay.Dr. Katrina Furey MD: Right.Dr. Sulman Mirza MD: In history. I think there's only this and I think maybe one or two other movies that have won all of those big five. And then I think when AFI American Film Institute does their top hundred films, or top hundred, whatever, this is always one of those top movies. I think Nurse Ratchet will talk about her in a bit. She's gone down as one of the top ten villains in film history of all time, right up there with Hannibal Lecter and another psychiatrist and Darth Vader. So it's like Darth Vader and Hannibal Ectos. You can see how powerful this is in our culture and our history.Dr. Katrina Furey MD: Yeah, that's so true.Portia Pendleton LCSW: And the name so right.Dr. Katrina Furey MD: Like, people say things are ratchet, like, oh, that's so ratchet.Portia Pendleton LCSW: And I was like, Is that from this?Dr. Katrina Furey MD: That's a great question.Portia Pendleton LCSW: I don't know, like, Nurse Ratchet or like, even again, like, not seeing the film. It's pretty old right.Dr. Katrina Furey MD: At this point. What's, 30 coming up in 50 years?Portia Pendleton LCSW: It's still impacting today in some very strange ways that I think people have no idea about.Dr. Katrina Furey MD: Yeah. Isn't that fascinating that it's had such a long lasting effect?Dr. Sulman Mirza MD: Yeah. So again, when I watched it the other day, I was like, man, first of all, I was like, this movie is like almost 50 years old, right. Seeing the cast members, I was like, oh, my God, this person is gone. This person is dead. This person is dead. And for a lot of these actors in there, some of them were like christopher Lloyd, I think, made his view in this movie.Dr. Katrina Furey MD: Yes.Dr. Sulman Mirza MD: Billy the character, Brad Durh, who played Billy Bibbitt, that was like his movie debut. You see a young Danny DeVito in there.Dr. Katrina Furey MD: I didn't even catch that until the end credits, I was like, oh my God, that was Danny DeVito.Dr. Sulman Mirza MD: That was Danny DeVito. Yeah.Dr. Katrina Furey MD: Was this Jack Nicholson's first movie or.Dr. Sulman Mirza MD: I'm imagining was I think he was pretty established by that time, but I think this was the one maybe he won his first award for and the one that really was like, oh, this guy is a superstar now.Dr. Katrina Furey MD: Yeah.Portia Pendleton LCSW: So first impressions?Dr. Katrina Furey MD: You said you were not pleased.Portia Pendleton LCSW: I mean, I don't think very much.Dr. Katrina Furey MD: You know, what's interesting is we just recorded and we'll have released an episode about Girl Interrupted, and then we're watching this one and I was like, oh, this is so fascinating because it's like similar time periods and they're both on inpatient hospital units. And I thought it just is interesting, the timing. Know, with Girl Interrupted, we really focus on borderline personality disorder and Winona Ryder's character, know, some antisocial personality disorder discussion with Angelina Jolie's character. And again, here we're finding the male view of antisocial personality disorder with Jack Nicholson's character, Randall McMurphy. So it was just interesting to sort of see again how they depicted an inpatient psychiatric unit, which I thought the environment was pretty accurate for those times. And still today it hasn't changed much. But I was struck immediately by, again, the nurses wearing their white clothes, which again, accurate for the time, not so much these days. All the orderlies I felt like were going to burst into a barbershop quartet song or serve me some ice cream with their little bow ties and stuff. But I feel like overall, when I rewatch this movie, it just makes me so sad to just see sort of how they portray the coercive nature of mental health treatment, especially ECT, the medication, so everything feels so punitive. That I think makes me really sad watching it as a psychiatrist and I don't think is accurate based on my experiences inpatient units.Dr. Sulman Mirza MD: Yeah, especially for today. Again, this was before my time. This is before I was born that this movie came out. No way to really tell what it was like, but it's this bizarre feeling of like, man, this is the image that has been there and permeated the culture of what this was. And I think when we were probably before enter our residency, and we're like, you get a little bit scared of going on the psychiatric floor for the first time as a med student, you're like, oh my God, what's it going to be like? Again, for those of us who have not been on an inpatient psychiatric floor, you're like, what is it going to be like? How are people going to be? Is it going to be like One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest? And then you get in there and you're like, oh, wait, it's not like that.Dr. Katrina Furey MD: Right? Yeah. I thought even the patients on the unit, the way they were depicted, I just thought was very stigmatizing and inhumane. And inaccurate. It felt like I had a hard time figuring out what each of the people like, what their diagnoses were, and they just sort of came across as being I don't know, how would you describe them?Dr. Sulman Mirza MD: Some of them were caricatures, right? I think we had the one patient who had been lobotomized who was just kind of there as the quote unquote vegetable. And then you have the know, the one guy, older guy who's just kind of dancing the entire time. You have Mr. Harding, I think is the closeted homosexual. And then you have some know, Billy Bibbitt is like the Stutterer. So again, you have these kind of caricatures that show up in you know, it's like, is it good? Is it bad? And not always. I think something from the book that's always just kind of lost in people is I think, if I remember correctly, I read the book, like, in high school, and I quickly did like a Wikipedia before this, just to kind of refresh a little bit. Yeah. And I was like, the book is told from the point of view of Chief, right, who in the book is a paranoid schizophrenic. Right. You have all this other he's got these conspiracy theories and this kind of bizarre delusions of how the world is being run, which none of that comes.Dr. Katrina Furey MD: Across in Totally Lost.Dr. Sulman Mirza MD: Yeah, he's totally depicted as like, oh, he's just this quote unquote Indian, right, native American that can't talk. And it's one of the worst kind of things I think we've seen as psychiatrists or in the field is you get consults on people who are non English speaking and people are like, what's wrong with this person? They're not understanding what I'm saying. You know what? Again, it's just like, oh, you just didn't use the interpreter line. You didn't take the time to bother to find out how they communicate. But that was kind of the image in my mind. I was like, wow, this poor guy. Chief got thrown into the mental health or into the psychiatric unit because nobody could communicate with him. And that's what he's here for and he's just kind of gone along with it. There's no way to tell at all that he's schizophrenic in the movie at all. Right?Dr. Katrina Furey MD: Whereas I think in the book I also read it a long time ago, so I don't quite remember, but I believe there was a lot more dialogue about his paranoid thoughts, even if he wasn't saying them. You were getting that background, whereas even in the movie, you just see him sweeping a lot. Like, he doesn't seem especially paranoid.Dr. Sulman Mirza MD: No, not at all. Again, in the movie, he's depicted as like this, again, totally normal person who just ended up there for some reason because he's, quote, deaf and dumb. And again, nobody can communicate with him.Dr. Katrina Furey MD: And it's like, I don't think that's how you end up on a psychiatric unit.Dr. Sulman Mirza MD: Right. That's sometimes how you hopefully, again, you may get that random psych consult just because, again, some surgery resident will be like, I can't talk with the person.Dr. Katrina Furey MD: They must be bipolar.Dr. Sulman Mirza MD: Yeah, they must be a bipolar. Or they must be like something. Or they're just like, no, they just don't speak English. Which I think we all have our stories.Portia Pendleton LCSW: We saw that in Side Effects right at the beginning.Dr. Katrina Furey MD: So there's a gentleman who's brought into the Er who had attacked, they said, like a cab driver because he thought.Portia Pendleton LCSW: He had seen his father. And in that culture, there's a lot of ghosts and seeing relatives and elders. The psychiatrist in that movie, this is a good depiction, started speaking, I think, French or Creole and was able and then was able to understand what actually happened then was like, you don't need to keep him cuffed, so on and so forth. So that was a good depiction. Know what we didn't see here, maybe, right?Dr. Katrina Furey MD: Yeah. What were your first impressions, Sulman, about Jack Nicholson's character?Dr. Sulman Mirza MD: It's interesting because he's the main character. He's the hero of the film, per se. Right. The main protagonist of the film is this guy who's going to come onto the unit and rabble rouse and free all the patients who are there. And he has this idea that, again, these people are held there against their will, when actually he's the one who's being involuntarily committed. He's the one who's being held there. They have that moment in therapy where everyone was like, oh, I'm actually here because I want to be here. And it's kind of eye opening experience for him. And I think people kind of like in the beginning, or people will kind of forget that he's really a terrible person. Right? He's there because he's done these terrible crimes. He's a pedophile, for lack of a better term. He's committed statutory rape. And he's kind of reveled in the fact that he's being very graphic in describing the situation that occurred with this 15 year old girl. And you're just like, oh, wow, this guy is really a dirt bag. He's really not a good person. And he's committed all these crimes and he's lying to get out of prison so that he can be in, again, this vacation, quote unquote, that he thinks he's going to be on the mental health ward and he's going to dupe everybody. And you're like, wow, this guy is really antisocial.Dr. Katrina Furey MD: Right?Dr. Sulman Mirza MD: But then he's portrayed again, this charismatic person who's going to free all these people. So he's, again, not taking into consideration…

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"She's The Man" Aug 21, 2023

Show notes

Welcome back to Analyze Scripts, where a psychiatrist and a therapist analyze what Hollywood gets right and wrong about mental health. Today, we are discussing "She's the Man," a 2006 film starring Amanda Bynes and Channing Tatum. Did you know this movie is based on the Shakespeare's play "Twelfth Night?" This is arguably one of Amanda Bynes' best performances. She is hilarious, captivating and witty. We discuss gender identity and sexuality at great lengths in this episode. Dr. Furey provides us with some medical facts about sex organs and we talk about where a person can fall on the gender expression spectrum. You don't want to miss this one, we hope you enjoy!InstagramTik TokWebsiteDr. Katrina Furey, MD: Hi, I'm Dr. Katrina Fieri, a psychiatrist.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And I'm Portia Pendleton, a licensed clinical social worker.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: And this is Analyze Scripts, a podcast where two shrinks analyze the depiction of mental health in movies and TV shows.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Our hope is that you learn some legit info about mental health while feeling like you're chatting with your girlfriends.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: There is so much misinformation out there, and it drives us nuts.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And if someday we pay off our student loans or land a sponsorship, like.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: With a lay flat airline or a major beauty brand, even better.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: So sit back, relax, grab some popcorn.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: And your DSM five, and enjoy.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Welcome back to another episode of Analyze Scripts. We are so excited to be covering the movie she's the man, which came out in 2006 and starred Amanda Bynes and Channing Tatum.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Whoa. I'd never seen this movie before. It's almost 20 years old. Isn't that crazy to think about?Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I've seen it many times.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: That's interesting. Yeah.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Like, loved it. One of my favorite movies from, like, teenhood.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Nice. I think this is, again, where I feel really old, but that's okay. So, this movie was based on a play by Shakespeare the 12th night. Right.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: So I didn't know that until I did research for this podcast episode.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Because we're professional.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yeah. Because we want to plan things out. But apparently it's based on the Shakespeare's play, and it's about even by name. Viola and her twin brother Sebastian, they're shipwrecked. They believe that each other drowned. So Viola disguises herself as a young man in order to get a job as a servant for Duke, the Duke of what is it? Or Sino. And it's, like, funny because Duke is played by Tatum. So I had no idea that there were all these references to this.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Right, right. And I think it's just interesting. Right. Like, a girl dressing up as a boy, how that has been in culture and society forever. Right. Really interesting to talk about this movie now, just, again, in the political climate of today and everything going on in terms of gender identity.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yeah. So we see. Amanda Bynes did a lot of work at this time in some other movies that I absolutely loved. One of them, she goes to, I think, like, England or something to find her long last dad, and then she's absolutely a gem. So she was 20 when this was filmed. Channing Tatum was 26, which I think.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Is we always kind of laugh at.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: People who play high school role.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Right. They were totally in high school. Yeah. And he was 26. Yeah. It was funny to see Channing Tatum as, like, a youngster and just be like, he really bulked up for magic Mike. Yeah.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: This was even pre, like, the dance movies, not magic. Step up. Step.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Yep. And I did find it hard to watch. I'll be Amanda Bynes, like, in her quote unquote prime, given what we sort of have seen happen to her. And again, we're not here to offer any thoughts about someone's personal mental health issues, but I think, Portia, you were pointing out that she's 20 years old in this movie, and around age 24, things started to change for her, which we do see in terms of when women tend to develop significant mental health issues.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yeah. And something that I learned more recently as well is that Amanda Bynes actually really lobbied to have Channing Tatum in this role. And it was his first role where he was like a main character.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: I think I did read that somewhere. I think you recently said that or was giving an interview about that, how we really appreciated that.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yeah, so that was sweet. And then we have some other cast members who I thought most notably Daphne, who plays Viola, and Sebastian's mom, played by Julie Hagerty, was also the mom and wife in what about Bob?Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: And she kind of played the same kind of like a loop, stitzy, disconnected character. I thought it was really funny. The whole thread of the debutante ball is that something that happens up here in the Northeast. So growing up in the south, this is like a thing. And it seemed know, I believe, like, debutante balls back in the day were for maybe even still presently. Like, I remember a couple years ago, reese Witherspoon's daughter was like, in a debutante ball, it's supposed to be like the way high society girls are introduced to society and maybe meet a suitor. Interestingly. Just yesterday I saw a New York Times article about debutante balls or like, debutante societies, but in an African American community, I believe in Detroit or somewhere in Michigan, and how those women really appreciate the balls because it helps them find mentors. So it's interesting because I always thought it was like to find a husband, but it sounds like at least in this community, it shifted a bit to find mentors, which I thought was really positive growing up in the south. I did go to something called Catillion.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Okay.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Have you heard of what that is? Which they sort of depicted, like, when Amanda Bynes'character is coming in and they're all eating on china and stuff like that. I just remember I had to wear these white gloves and learn how to handshake and how to curtsy. And we had homework assignments in between the sessions where you'd have to shake certain people's hands and they'd have to sign off and you had to learn all these fancy dances like the foxtrot.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I mean, that's exactly what I envisioned it being.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Yeah, I hated it. I remember I used to pretend to have stomach aches so I wouldn't have to go. And then the final dance, you're supposed to dance with all these boys and it was like in 6th grade or something. I just hated it. So sorry. Mom, if you're listening, I just really didn't love it. But that's sort of spot on depicted, I think, in see.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: So it's kind of just the plot is that Amanda, bynes Viola's character, learns that her high school women's soccer team is being cut, but due to low.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Participation numbers and she is really into soccer.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Right. We see the opening scene. They're playing on the beach. She seems like she has a good relationship with her boyfriend and her friend. He seems supportive in the moment. So they are really upset and they kind of go up to the boys soccer team and they want to play, and the coach is kind of like, laughing. Like, that's absurd. You can't do that.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Can't play with the boys.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Exactly. And so girls aren't fat. Initially, it seems like they're not even going to let them try out, which, per Title IX, if there is not an alternative sport, then they have to be allowed to try out.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Can you explain portia for our listeners what Title IX is?Portia Pendleton, LCSW: So Title IX basically is for education systems and kind of guarantees equal treatment. And what we're seeing now is a lot of Title Nine being brought up with gender identification in sports. So basically it guarantees an equal amount of so I'll just speak to it with sports. I know that it's bigger, but it guarantees an equal amount of sports per school. So, for example, if there's six boys sports teams, there has to be six girls sport teams. If there is a 7th sports team, it has to be coed. So, for example, a lot of I'm thinking about in my high school team, like, golf was coed, and then there was like, boys and girls tennis, football, field hockey. So that's the kind of counterpart. But there has to be an equal number.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Okay. And I think aren't there also, like, I think at colleges and stuff now, they have like, Title IX offices, title Nine coordinators. And I think that's also maybe where you go if you've experienced like a sexual assault or there's some concern about harassment or things like that.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Right, yeah. So it prohibited sex based discrimination in any school or education program that receives any funding from the federal government. And it started in 1972.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Oh, I thought it was like, recent.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: So they've made amendments to it, I'm sure, over and over since then. But that's when it started.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: So this initial school would have been in violation of Title Nine then. Okay, good to know. I thought maybe that came about after in the past 20 years, but I guess not.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: No.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Okay, good to know. But so they won't let her sort of try out or play. Her boyfriend is really icky and dismissive about her feelings, so she breaks up with him. Good. And then she has this idea that she's going to dress up like her brother and impersonate him at his school for two weeks so that she can make that male soccer team and kind of beat her boyfriend's team. Yeah, it's Cornwall and Illyria Illyria, which was a funny name, but I bet those stem back to the Shakespeare play, right?Portia Pendleton, LCSW: That makes sense, I think.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: So that makes a lot more sense.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Because they're kind of OD.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: So basically, that's the premise of the movie. And we see Amanda Bynes portray stereotypical gender roles and mannerisms in a comedic way. And she's always been known for her comedic timing and the slapstick nature and the physical comedy. She's always been known for that. So you definitely see that here. But what were your thoughts, Portia, about the way she sort of portrayed masculinity versus femininity?Portia Pendleton, LCSW: So I think she also let's first remind ourselves that this film was probably made in 2004, right? Came out in 2006. So some of the things that they were even just saying when she's in the shower room with Duke and she's just like, calling Brosif broski G money, a lot of those things are also just like from then. And people did say, you know, it's not that outrageous, but I thought she first of all, which we already said, she is just phenomenal at that kind of humor. And so I think ironically now, looking back, though, she in this role is bringing a lot of gender issues and questions up onto the surface in a really big way. Again, that we did not see.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Yeah, and again, using humor, which we think of as a mature defense mechanism to explore really complex, difficult topics, much like we talked about with our Barbie episode, but in a different way. And I'm like, was that intentional or was that like, it just happened.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And they take it even further with you see her because they could have easily just thrown a wig and write the sideburns on and just had her wearing like a tightly fitted sports bra. But you see them like, they take the espinage and they're like binding, which is a pretty common practice if someone's trans and they are trying to have like a flat chest. You see her kind of packing like a filled sock to look like a ***** to use in her pants. And again, that's something that is used. So I thought even that could have easily been left out and I don't think anyone would have noticed.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Right, I totally agree. And I thought before we continue, I did just want to give a couple of definitions for our listeners because I think as we start talking about gender dynamics, sexual dynamics, trans, cisgender, like, things like that, it can be really confusing. So, again, I want to just give a couple of standard definitions. So when we use the word sex, like in the medical field, the definition of sex is a biological category based on reproductive, anatomical and genetic characteristics, generally defined as male, female and intersex. So something I hear a lot in the popular press and media is like, you're born a boy or a girl that's it. And actually, that's just not true of the human species and a lot of other species if you look into different animals and things like that. So there are several medical conditions where a child isn't born at birth with what we consider male genitalia or female genitalia. Those things can include things like Kleinfelter syndrome, turner's syndrome, and androgen Insensitivity syndrome. And these are complicated things, and we won't get into all the details, but in those different know, the anatomical chromosomal or gonadal, sex varies in some way from what we would typically call male or female genitalia. So for people who are constantly shouting, like, you're either a boy or a girl, that's just not true. Like, there are humans again, it's rare, but there are humans born who, for example, like their internal organs don't match the external genitalia or vice versa. And so, again, usually at birth, parents are kind of advised, like, you can pick the gender. Now, it might change for some of these conditions. Other times, maybe the parents just maybe especially today, like, don't pick and sort of see what the child chooses. But that can change over the course of a child's life. And sometimes people with these conditions prefer to be called intersex. I think back in the day, we used to call people with these conditions hermaphrodites. And that, I think, can have a really negative connotation attached to it. But I think that is important to just point out that not everyone is just born a boy or a girl. So that is sex. That's medical based on these factors, gender is different from that, right? So when we say gender, that refers to socially constructed roles, behaviors, activities, and attributes that a given society associates with being a woman, man, girl, or boy, as well as relationships with each other as a social construct. Gender varies from society to society and can change over time. I think that's really important that we understand that that's what gender it is. I think we see Amanda bynes'character Viola sort of display that right? And so someone's gender identity is an individual sense of being a man, woman, boy, girl, genderqueer non binary, et cetera. And this doesn't have to be visible to other people. What you see from the outside is what we call gender expression. That's how someone chooses to convey their gender identity through their behavior, clothing, or other external characteristics. And not everyone fe…

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"Girl, Interrupted" Aug 14, 2023

Show notes

Welcome back to Analyze Scripts, where a psychiatrist and a therapist analyze what Hollywood gets right and wrong about mental health. Today, we are analyzing the '90s movie "Girl, Interrupted" based on the memoir by Susanna Kaysen. This film depicts two years of a young adult woman's life at McLean Hospital in the 1960s where she was diagnosed with borderline personality disorder (BPD). This episode analyzes everything from why it's so hard to talk about BPD, psychoanalytic vs behavioral treatment methods, the deinstitutionalization movement, antipsychotics, and our opinions about Angelina Jolie's portrayal of sociopathy. We hope you enjoy!InstagramTikTokWebsite[00:10] Dr. Katrina Furey: Hi, I'm Dr. Katrina Fieri, a psychiatrist.[00:12] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And I'm Portia Pendleton, a licensed clinical social worker.[00:16] Dr. Katrina Furey: And this is Analyze Scripts, a podcast where two shrinks analyze the depiction of mental health in movies and TV shows.[00:23] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Our hope is that you learn some legit info about mental health while feeling like you're chatting with your girlfriends.[00:28] Dr. Katrina Furey: There is so much misinformation out there and it drives us nuts.[00:32] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And if someday we pay off our student loans or land a sponsorship, like.[00:36] Dr. Katrina Furey: With a lay flat airline or a major beauty brand, even better.[00:39] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: So sit back, relax, grab some popcorn.[00:42] Dr. Katrina Furey: And your DSM Five and enjoy. We get started with this episode. We just wanted to add a trigger warning. Some of this content could be disturbing to listen to. We're talking about the film Girl Interrupted, and there are some themes of suicide, disordered eating, and I would say institutional traumatization. So again, if any of these themes hit too close to home or could potentially be damaging, please feel free to skip this episode and join us again next time. Otherwise, enjoy. Hi, thanks for joining us. Today we are going to talk about the hit movie Girl Interrupted. A real blast from the past from my favorite decade, the 90s. This movie is based on the 1993 memoir by Susannah Casey, who wrote about two years of her life spent at McClain Hospital in the 1960s in Massachusetts, where she was diagnosed with borderline personality disorder. Portia so when I recommended we covered this movie, I totally didn't remember the plot. I don't actually know if I saw the whole thing. I was just like, oh yeah, there's a movie with Angelina Jolie and she got an Oscar and it's probably really good. I totally forgot that the main character was diagnosed with Bpd, which I actually think is great for us to talk about because we've alluded to this diagnosis and some of our other know, I'm thinking like, what about Bob Succession White Lotus? And I still find that this is a tricky diagnosis to talk about with patients to explain to patients to explain to other. I thought, you know, Winona Ryder's character like, did a great job being like, what is it? On the borderline of what? What are you talking about? Right?[02:38] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yeah. And at the time, though, this was newish. Marsha Linehan hadn't written her book yet on DBT.[02:47] Dr. Katrina Furey: I don't even think there was DBT yet. Thinking about the 1960s, I thought this film did a great job depicting what it probably was like to be psychiatrically hospitalized in the 60s, which is so different from what it's like today. Place that is very true. So this film was filmed at Harrisburg State Hospital in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. It was filmed in 1999, but it was based on McLean Hospital, which is probably the number one psychiatric hospital in our country for a long time. I think it is affiliated with Harvard, and I think they do still have some longer term units like this, but you see a lot of treatment. You know, she goes to therapy many times a week. She's sitting on the couch. Her therapist is sitting behind her. Unfortunately falls asleep at one point, which I don't think actually happens in real life, but speaks to how she felt probably like there was a disconnect and you hear about how she's there for two years. That just doesn't happen anymore. But in the did, that was the treatment. People used to be admitted and stay for a really long time until in the mid 1960s, in the Reagan era, there was this big move not just in our country but internationally to deinstitutionalize patients, right? So sort of close down these long term hospitals which we called asylums and invest more in community mental health centers. And I think I don't know this for sure, but I believe that coincided with the invention of modern day antipsychotic medication like Thorazine and the other medications that came from that, like Haldol, basically medications that could treat schizophrenia and thereby treat these patients in a way that hopefully they didn't have to live in an institution. Sadly, we haven't invested enough in the community mental health centers that were supposed to be created to sort of support patients and we've had some really awful side effects from that. Primarily homelessness and institutionalization in jails. That is the number one provider of mental health treatment in our country. How awful and disgusting is that? And again, it's because not enough money goes into these community mental health centers. So nowadays you might be admitted for a couple of days to really stabilize you, tweak your meds, but you're not getting this type of intensive, insight oriented therapy anymore that we see depicted in this movie. And I think that's really sad. You can get that if you can pay for.[05:29] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I mean, it's wildly expensive.[05:31] Dr. Katrina Furey: Wildly expensive. And I think some places, like other, you know, hospitals might take insurance. I don't know if insurance would cover it.[05:41] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yeah, they take some and especially for some programs. Like, I've had some people go to McLean, I've known some people to go to Silver Hills. Those two places over the years have definitely taken more of an insurance route for some of their programming and other tracks that they have. Other parts of their residences or programs are not insurance based.[06:03] Dr. Katrina Furey: And I think that also just speaks.[06:04] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: To like there's not a lot of people who can afford to be somewhere for a year and pay that. So I think they've also just had to do that where it's like some of their income is insurance based and others they are able to get private pay.[06:19] Dr. Katrina Furey: And I would like to think that they would take insurance for more situations if insurance would freaking pay, right? But insurance is the worst. That's a whole nother tangent for another day. But they don't pay. They don't even pay know, short just it's really an abomination. Yeah. So anyway, getting back to the movie, we have an all star cast. So Winona Ryder is playing Susanna, the main character. We have Angelina Jolie playing Lisa, the woman with sociopathy. She won an Academy Award for this role. I think Winona Ryder did too. Or maybe she was nominated. I can't remember. We have Whoopi Goldberg playing Valerie, the nurse. Elizabeth Moss playing Polly, the girl who was a burned victim from childhood. Clea duvall is played. Georgina susanna's roommate.[07:12] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And she is in the show Veep.[07:14] Dr. Katrina Furey: That I really love. I haven't seen it before, but I've heard really good.[07:17] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I was like, oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh, it's her. Yeah, I couldn't believe it.[07:21] Dr. Katrina Furey: And then we had Brittany Murphy, who played Daisy. Who. That's just a tragic death and weird circumstances on its own. But I loved her, and I loved her roles in the then we had Jared Leto, who knew? Playing Toby.[07:36] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I was like, who? Before I looked at the cast list, I was like, who is that? Why does he look so familiar? I couldn't believe it. So young.[07:43] Dr. Katrina Furey: I know.[07:43] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Like a baby.[07:44] Dr. Katrina Furey: They all look so young. And then we have Jeffrey Tambor playing Dr. Melvin Potts, her first psychiatrist. And then we see Vanessa Redgrave playing Dr. Wick, the female psychiatrist. And there's a lot of other characters too, but those are just some of the main heavy hitters.[08:01] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yeah.[08:02] Dr. Katrina Furey: So what did you think, Portia, about the opening?[08:07] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: A little confusing. I mean, I was like, Is this present know? And then I was confused because it starts with her in the hospital, right, getting her stomach pumped.[08:16] Dr. Katrina Furey: Then I think the very first thing is you see, like, a broken light bulb in a syringe, and the girl's like, in the psych hospital, and you're like, what's going on? And then it flashes.[08:24] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: So then she wakes up.[08:26] Dr. Katrina Furey: And I was like, okay.[08:27] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: So was that a flashback? Was that a memory? Is her stomach getting pumped real? I was confused with those two first scenes.[08:36] Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah, totally. And I wonder I would imagine that was kind of intentional. And then we see her being pretty aggressively restrained. We see the tube down her throat, I think, pumping her stomach. And my first thought was, what did she overdose on? This looks like they're trying to treat her for an overdose. And then someone screams out, oh, she's a wristbanger. I was like, what does that mean? And she said something about, there's no bones in my hand. And I was like, what is going on here? But I think it did give a pretty good snapshot into her mental state at that point in time. I was like, okay, she's overdosed on something that's dangerous enough where they have to aggressively pump her stomach. Now, we can't wait. We have to hold her down before we even get a sedative in her. Maybe back then they didn't even really have sedatives. Honestly, I'm not sure when things like Adivan and stuff were invented. And that thing about not having bones in her hand made me think, is she psychotic? Is she not? What's going on? Then we see her lock eyes with that man in the hallway, who we later learn is, like, her dad's colleague who's married, and she's had some sort of sexual relationship with him. And then she's pretty quickly seeing a psychiatrist in his home. You see her looking out the door, seeing his family and looking out the window and seeing her mom unpacking a suitcase. And I was like, Uhoh, yeah.[10:04] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And still does happen. But I think it was more common in the past with these kind of, like, voluntary, but involuntary getting someone to treatment. Right. So it's like, whether you're an adolescent, and it's not voluntary at all, and your parents are taking you there, so it's under their voluntary, but not telling them where they're going. So, hey, we're going to go for a car ride. They don't know their suitcases packed, and then we're taking you to treatment. Or the horror stories of those wilderness camps where you're, like, abducted in the middle of the night. I was kind of thinking of that with Susanna being an adult. Right. It's like, in my head, I'm like, at any time, she can kind of.[10:40] Dr. Katrina Furey: Back out of this. Well, can she? It turns out she couldn't. Right.[10:45] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: That was also my question was, why.[10:47] Dr. Katrina Furey: Was it different in the so I don't know the full rules, but I do know that a lot of things they depicted in terms of getting her to the hospital don't happen these days. So she's seeing this psychiatrist. So an old white man, by the way, and he doesn't do this anymore. He very readily volunteers that way to instill confidence in your patient. I thought he was very shaming. I didn't like the way he spoke to her. He was not connecting with her. It was very clear she was, like, a bother to him in that the way he was saying, like, I'm just doing this as a favor to your dad. Why are you doing this to everyone around you? I just thought it was awful. What a terrible way to treat someone who is just clearly attempted suicide, even if she's saying, I always just had a headache. I didn't mean to take that much. It's clear what was going on. And then he just puts her in a cab and trusts the cab driver to take her to the psychiatric hospital. Okay. Yeah. Okay.[11:49] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: That's his responsibility.[11:50] Dr. Katrina Furey: We 100% don't do that. If you need to send someone to the psychiatric hospital, hopefully you can talk with them and talk with their family and come up with a plan where they're on board. That's the ideal way, right, to sort of have their family bring them, and they're voluntarily seeking help. Sometimes people aren't willing to go and they need to go for their safety. And that's when, at least in the state of Connecticut, a psychiatrist can involuntarily hospitalize someone by signing what's called the Physician's Emergency Certificate or a PEC form. There's only two conditions in our state where you can basically take away someone's civil liberties by saying you have to be institutionalized against your will. That would be if you are an imminent threat to yourself or someone else. So in terms of like suicidality or homicidal threats or if you are so gravely disabled from your mental illness that there is fear of your being able to survive without immediate intervention. So people who unfortunately have something like a psychotic disorder, who aren't eating, who are harming themselves in some way but might not realize it like if they have diabetes and aren't taking their insulin, things like that. But it has to be really severe in order for you to be able to check that box. You can't check it for things like substance abuse. That's a different type of involuntary commitment and that one's really hard to get.[13:12] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: You can also send people involuntarily to the hospital just for the eval. You know what I mean? Like cops can do that.[13:20] Dr. Katrina Furey: You're right. Sometimes people will voluntarily sign themselves in. Once you do that, though, you can't voluntarily sign yourself out. Usually the team does have to kind of be in agreement that you're ready to leave. If not, then they could petition the courts to then involuntarily commit you to sort of see out your treatment. But it's not like, for two years anymore.[13:44] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yeah. So we learn later in the movie. But that Lisa has been there for eight years.[13:49] Dr. Katrina Furey: Not surprising, right, given her personality pathology. And it seems like she frequently elopes, which is the fancy word to say.[13:59] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: You know, my question was just thinking about is she making herself known? Is she kind of coming back? Is she presenting in a hospital somewhere? Like, how are they finding her?[14:08] Dr. Katrina Furey: Right. Are they finding her or is she finding them? Does she have some sort of tie of dependency to the institution that's been taking care of her? Because it seems like she's like the leader in some ways. Right. And I thought that I mean, what were your thoughts, Por…

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"Barbie" Aug 07, 2023

Show notes

Welcome back to Analyze Scripts, where a psychiatrist and a therapist analyze what Hollywood gets right and wrong about mental health. Today, we are thrilled to analyze Greta Gerwig's BILLION DOLLAR HIT "Barbie." We analyze the film's smart, timely, and campy explorations of femininity and masculinity. We loved exploring Barbie's evolution through a developmental lens and decided that therapists are basically "weird Barbies" helping our patients grow into their most authentic selves. We loved the sprinkling in of so many dialectical behavioral therapy (DBT) principles, and the tender moments depicting evolving mother-daughter relationships. Plus, we could watch Ryan Gosling beach all day. We loved this movie and hope you enjoy this episode!InstagramTikTokWebsite[00:10] Dr. Katrina Furey: Hi, I'm Dr. Katrina Furey, a psychiatrist.[00:12] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And I'm Portia Pendleton, a licensed clinical social worker.[00:16] Dr. Katrina Furey: And this is Analyze Scripts, a podcast where two shrinks analyze the depiction of mental health in movies and TV shows.[00:23] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Our hope is that you learn some legit info about mental health while feeling like you're chatting with your girlfriends.[00:28] Dr. Katrina Furey: There is so much misinformation out there and it drives us nuts.[00:32] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And if someday we pay off our student loans or land a sponsorship, like.[00:36] Dr. Katrina Furey: With a lay flat airline or a major beauty brand, even better.[00:39] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: So sit back, relax, grab some popcorn.[00:42] Dr. Katrina Furey: And your DSM Five and enjoy. Welcome back to another episode of a podcast hosted by Two Wise Trees. If you didn't catch that reference, we are obviously talking about the new Greta Gerwig film, Barbie. And that was a line in the film at one point, and I just chuckled. Know, we have a podcast now and we're covering it. And we went to the movies all for this. And it was just funny.[01:17] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And we are two trees basically rooted.[01:20] Dr. Katrina Furey: Firmly into the ground.[01:21] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Secure.[01:22] Dr. Katrina Furey: Secure. Stable. Nourishing. With our branches.[01:27] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Fruitful.[01:27] Dr. Katrina Furey: Fruitful. Nice. With our branches just growing and blossoming into the sky where it takes us. I know it could have been a haiku. So anyway, we are really excited to talk about this film today. As it stands right now, we are filming or filming we are recording this episode in late July, and I checked the stats yesterday. Barbie has grossed already over $500 million worldwide.[01:55] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: That's incredible.[01:55] Dr. Katrina Furey: Incredible. Especially because it's like double what Oppenheimer has grossed. We will also be covering that film a little later on. So that makes me really happy. Yeah, I was really excited when we went to the movies, Portia. And it was packed, packed, packed. Mostly women, but some men as well. And it was a matinee. We went at 01:00. And I just was like, see, Hollywood, you can make female driven material and you will still sell tickets.[02:29] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Everyone was so excited. There was a ton of people wearing pink. It was just so fun. And I felt connected to people in theater.[02:38] Dr. Katrina Furey: I know, right?[02:38] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Which I feel like I've never well, I did when I saw the last Harry Potter.[02:44] Dr. Katrina Furey: I was going to say Harry Potter.[02:46] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Everyone was clapping, everyone dressed up. It was emotional.[02:49] Dr. Katrina Furey: It was an experience. Right. And that's like the joy of going to the movies. And I think you had said to me that you hadn't seen a movie since before COVID and probably then two years before that. So long time. But totally, as you were saying that, it reminded me of when I would go see Harry Potter with my friends, like in high school and yeah, it was like a whole event. And this is totally what that felt like. We were a little bummed that there wasn't the Barbie box.[03:17] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yeah, I think it's because we weren't.[03:20] Dr. Katrina Furey: In a major city.[03:22] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yeah. Or even just like a big mega theater, because I know some people who went in another part of our state and they did have the box, but it was like a big complex, like.[03:32] Dr. Katrina Furey: Next to a mall, all that stuff. Yeah, well, it was still great.[03:36] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I was bummed. Sorry.[03:38] Dr. Katrina Furey: I did bring a couple of my daughter's Barbie dolls, which was an interesting thing to be carrying around as an adult woman. We went to lunch beforehand and we had them and it was just interesting, I'll put it that way. Content.[03:52] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And it was silly, but we were probably the youngest people at lunch by like 30 years.[03:59] Dr. Katrina Furey: Yes, at a minimum. And I was just curious what they.[04:01] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Were thinking 100%, because I don't think.[04:04] Dr. Katrina Furey: It was on their radar that Barbie was coming up. Although maybe, but I don't think so. And then here I am, just slept around with some Barbie dolls in my purse and we're trying to take pictures of them with our drinks. And I did feel weird.[04:18] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yeah.[04:18] Dr. Katrina Furey: But you tell me this is what content is and we're really trying, and you held them.[04:24] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I was like, yeah, it's fine. I'm not holding them.[04:26] Dr. Katrina Furey: But they were cute.[04:28] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: That's funny. So, first impact of the movie, what did you immediately think? Leaving it, just feeling wise?[04:36] Dr. Katrina Furey: Oh, my gosh. Well, I mean, I think I was so excited for this movie because I had a feeling it wasn't going to be like Stereotypical Barbie, right. Just because Greta Gerwig was attached. And I had a feeling it was going to be really smart and kind of meta. And that was what I was hoping for, was it would be a commentary on the female experience. And I felt like they totally delivered. I just loved the opening. I loved all of it. But I really loved The Know, where they show all the little girls playing old fashioned dolls and playing mommy and all this stuff. And then all of a sudden there's this big Barbie in her swimsuit and they just start smashing the **** out of these baby dolls. And I just was like, all right, I'm going to like this movie right away. It caught. I just I don't know. I thought it was so campy and funny, but also really know. I cried at the end when Ruth and Stereotypical Barbie were talking and like, wanted to become human, and they were talking all about the complicated human experience. And she said the thing about mothers, stand still so their daughters can see how far they've come. That's when it got me. So I just felt everything and I want to see it again. I already want to see it again.[05:58] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I thought about it a lot after we left.[06:00] Dr. Katrina Furey: Me too.[06:01] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And I felt like all sorts of emotions, which I think was I wasn't expecting that. I thought it would be like touching, maybe, and silly. I thought I'd laugh and maybe cry. But I thought about it for the entire weekend. I do want to see it again and I was just really touched and really moved, thinking of different parts. I think that's also why I want to see it again, because I think I'll pick up on maybe some more things or some moments, some things that I didn't catch.[06:28] Dr. Katrina Furey: Right. Yeah. I mean, I am astounded by the writing and the dialogue and how it is just so I feel like just really spot on in exploring the female know, by going from Barbie world to the real world, then back to Barbie world and just the way it sort of touches on the idea of feminism. And I was really surprised that they did such a good job because I think Barbie is so polarizing and they sort of addressed it in a really direct way, but then also just addressed the complex human experience that comes from being a woman in today's world. And I just thought especially right now in the political climate with the overturning of Roe versus Wade, it's just so great, I guess, to have something in your face on the screen that the masses are consuming. Right. I just really loved, you know, this.[07:27] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Movie has been being worked on for years and so one of the things I thought was kind of funny was the Supreme Court justices all being female and then in real life, Supreme Court Justices making some decisions that would probably not happen in Barbie land.[07:48] Dr. Katrina Furey: Right, exactly. And just it was so the it was just so witty and humorous, but so spot on. And I just am always so impressed, know, writers, directors, actors can really do like I feel like that's really hard, but is like a really smart way of using a mature defense mechanism, humor, to explore really difficult, complex, gritty issues. Right. And so for them to be able to do that also in such a visually appealing, campy, fun way was just really smart. I feel like there will be college classes analyzing this movie.[08:32] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: No, I agree. That's a good so I noticed a little flavor of dialectical behavioral therapy in something that Greta Gerwig had said in an interview that she said about the movie. So I'm going to read it. I'm interested in how life is complicated and messy and that there is nothing that's either or either good or bad, but it's mostly both. It can be all these things at once. And I think that is a what you said before and kind of narrates the human experience.[09:01] Dr. Katrina Furey: Right.[09:01] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: It's like everything we feel, all these emotions, everyone will experience know, excitement. And it's like that was that end scene where she's like, you just have to feel and it's like everything it's so overwhelming, right.[09:16] Dr. Katrina Furey: And also just so overwhelming to see stereotypical Barbie or Margot Robbie's character, right. Main Barbie, see that evolution, right. From feeling just good at the beginning. Like in Barbie.[09:27] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Everything's perfect.[09:28] Dr. Katrina Furey: Everything's perfect. And that's it. That's all, you know, to starting to realize something's off, like when her feet are flat, to becoming human and choosing that life. Right? Whereas initially, she wanted to go back to where things were just all good and everything was perfect. And then eventually she came to see, like, no, actually, I do want that richer experience. So as we were in the movie, I was jotting down some quotes because I'm a reporter, I guess you could say. And so some of these quotes that they said, I think, really speak to what you're saying. Portia when Margot Robbie said something like that felt achy but good. I think she was trying to describe crying and sadness. And at one point, she's and the release, the release of it, and she was I i just started crying. Like, first one tear came, then a whole lot came, I think, as people are trying to talk to her about what it's like to be human and she's really scared of change, I feel like, is everyone or just people with anxiety?[10:26] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I think everyone is.[10:27] Dr. Katrina Furey: I think everyone. And then if you have an anxiety disorder that's probably a little higher or you might feel that a little more deeply, but at some point, someone says to her that's all life is, is change. And she says, that's terrifying. And I was like, whoa.[10:42] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yeah.[10:42] Dr. Katrina Furey: I was like but I just loved watching her evolution and becoming a human and that whole video montage of women and their children and just women over life. And I guess I was reading that comes from the casting crew. Those are all, like, home movies. How beautiful.[11:03] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I've watched that scene, obviously, I guess, Pirated online, like, multiple times where she's crying.[11:10] Dr. Katrina Furey: I have to emotionally prepare to rewatch it.[11:12] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yeah. So like you've mentioned before, when Margot Robbie stereotypical Barbie is in Barbie land, at the beginning, it's all very happy, right? Like, Good morning, Barbie. Morning, Barbie.[11:23] Dr. Katrina Furey: Morning, Barbie.[11:24] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Like, you know, everyone's smiling. Everything is working perfectly. The outfits are immaculate and stunning, and I want them all in my you know, you see her kind of getting up for the day, getting ready, going, everything's falling into place.[11:37] Dr. Katrina Furey: I did love that there was, like, no water. There's nothing in her cup. It's just so funny. It's like she is the doll, right? And she's being played with. It's just, like, so funny.[11:45] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: No, that's so true. Because later we right. Like, the milk goes sour, and then when she's in the real world, the water goes all over and she's like.[11:54] Dr. Katrina Furey: Oh, I'm not used to anything coming out of that yet. When she was talking to Will Ferrell as the CEO of Mattel, that was funny. Yeah. But what was your thought from the get go of seeing all the Barbies?[12:04] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: It seemed really joyful and peaceful and like everyone's just saying what they think everyone's saying it in a kind way, but right when we see the scene in the Oval Office when somebody's complimenting someone else, they're not like, saying thank you or oh, no, that's not true. They're just saying, like, yeah, I worked hard, right.[12:29] Dr. Katrina Furey: When the Barbie won the Nobel Priest prize, she was like, I deserve this. I thought that was really interesting, too. There's a lot of diversity in the cast in terms of race, nationality, skin color, body type. Less so with body type, but it was there. I loved midge. I loved how they did pull in these random Barbies from the past that probably none of us have heard of but really did exist. And they were so funny.[12:54] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Like midge, the pregnant Barbie, total tongue in cheek because they're like calling out themselves, which everyone who was on the film, including Will Ferrell, I think he was like, this looks like a great script, but Mattel's never going to let us do this, right? And they did, and it was so like, I think what a huge risk that paid off for Mattel to let them kind of be poked fun at. And ultimately, I think it really landed well for them. Right?[13:22] Dr. Katrina Furey: But I just thought that was totally and so we had like midge, the pregnant Barbie, and they were like, oh, she didn't sell well.[13:30] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Pregnant dolls are just weird.[13:32] Dr. Katrina Furey: And then we had Alan played by.[13:34] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Michael Stera, who just right.[13:36] Dr. Katrina Furey: I guess it was like Ken's friend, who also didn't really sell well. But you see him just like popping in and out here and there and he's so funny.[13:43] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: There was a know, I think, hint maybe of that, like he could have been like a gay character. He also seemingly, at least throughout the film, it was very clear that he was like an ally to the Barbies. So I just thought that was clever. And I also just…

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"The Hangover" Jul 31, 2023

Show notes

Welcome back to Analyze Scripts, where a psychiatrist and a therapist analyze what Hollywood gets right and wrong about mental health. Today, our summer party continues with "The Hangover." This 2009 comedy is the first of three and where we meet Doug, Alan, Phil, Stu and of course Mr. Chow. While the sound track is nostalgic, some of the jokes are a little *yikes.* We discuss Alan's behavior and social challenges as well as the abusive relationship between Stu and Melissa. Dr. Furey gives us the schoop on drugs and alcohol and we discuss serotonin syndrome. Sit back, grab some popcorn and your old "NOW" album from 2009. We hope you enjoy!INSTAGRAMTIKTOKWEBSITEDr. Katrina Furey: Hi, I'm Dr. Katrina Fury, a psychiatrist.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And I'm Portia Pendleton, a licensed clinical social worker. And this is Analyze Scripts, a podcast.Dr. Katrina Furey: Where two shrinks analyze the depiction of.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Mental health in movies and TV shows. Our hope is that you learn some legit info about mental health while feeling like you're chatting with your girlfriends.Dr. Katrina Furey: There is so much misinformation out there, and it drives us nuts.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And if someday we pay off our student loans or land a sponsorship, like.Dr. Katrina Furey: With a lay flat airline or a major beauty brand, even better.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: So sit back, relax, grab some popcorn.Dr. Katrina Furey: Your DSM Five, and enjoy.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Hi there. Welcome back to another episode of analyze scripts with Dr. Katrina fury and portia pendleton licensed clinical social worker. We are going to dissect an interesting throwback movie today, the Hangover.Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah.Dr. Katrina Furey: You've been really excited about this one.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yeah, it's from 2009, which is kind of a little bit nostalgic for both.Dr. Katrina Furey: Of us, like, almost 15 years ago.Dr. Katrina Furey: Wow.Dr. Katrina Furey: It's hard to believe. It feels like just yesterday people were wearing Allen Halloween costumes with a baby and a baby beyond.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I went to Las Vegas in 2000, and maybe, like, eleven, and I have a picture with a street performer, model performer of being Alan, like, holding a baby.Dr. Katrina Furey: Did you go there because of this movie?Portia Pendleton, LCSW: No, I didn't. I went there with my in laws, so not for we actually went there for Thanksgiving.Dr. Katrina Furey: Oh, that's an interesting Thanksgiving destination.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Oh, I like that. Yeah, it was totally different. It was hot. The food was delicious. We went to, like, brunch somewhere.Dr. Katrina Furey: Was it like a buffet?Dr. Katrina Furey: Brunch?Dr. Katrina Furey: Vegas has a lot of those.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I don't think it was a buffet, but I think it was just, like.Dr. Katrina Furey: A nice just nice.Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah.Dr. Katrina Furey: The only times I've been to Vegas were in childhood for dance competitions, like nationals. We went twice. So it's like, me, my family, my grandma was there both times, and we're just, like, trucking along. She's in her walker, and we did, like, children things.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Interesting.Dr. Katrina Furey: Wow.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yeah, we we I was just, you know, of age or a little, you know, a little bit after, but it was it was a pretty typical Vegas experience.Dr. Katrina Furey: Right.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: You know, unfortunately drank too much of the Kool Aid and felt so horrible.Dr. Katrina Furey: Like these characters.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Like these characters. It was obviously a little bit more embarrassing because I wasn't there with friends.Dr. Katrina Furey: Oh, yeah, you're in love.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Fun story. I remember calling my mom because, of course, this is just how it goes. You tend to turn up the most the night before you have to go home. Don't do that, please. And so I remember there was a lot of vomiting.Dr. Katrina Furey: Oh, God, Porsche. You love that.Dr. Katrina Furey: I know.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: It's my favorite thing. And I called my mom from the airport crying because I was so upset. I felt so horrible, and I was sick, and she was so mad at me. I guess as one would be of your daughter who's away with like well.Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah, I guess back then they weren't your in laws yet, probably, right?Portia Pendleton, LCSW: No, it was like maybe two years in.Dr. Katrina Furey: Was this like your first trip with them?Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Second.Dr. Katrina Furey: Was it your first holiday with them?Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I don't think so. Okay.Dr. Katrina Furey: But yeah, I wonder if they were testing you. Let's go to vegas and see what happened.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I don't know if I passed or failed.Dr. Katrina Furey: You know what?Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I might have passed with flying colors.Dr. Katrina Furey: Wow.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: She can really have a good time. But I actually was ill for two days after. I think it was pretty serious. Like we see in the movie and we should not do.Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah, we'll talk about a little bit.Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah.Dr. Katrina Furey: I wonder if you got a roof feed.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I don't think so.Dr. Katrina Furey: I had memories. You were like, I remember every drop.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Of every drink, so don't do that.Dr. Katrina Furey: I know I've never had like a typical vegas experience, but now with all these singers and stuff having residencies there.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I know I always want to go.Dr. Katrina Furey: And not really like I mean, I'm like old now, but it would be fun to like I don't know if it would be fun anymore to go to a club. I think I'd like to go and just people watch for a little bit and then go to sleep early in a really comfortable circle bed. That's my goal at this phase. But if vegas wants to sponsor us, caesar's palace, feel free.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: The real caesar live here. So many good lines from the hangover. Like there's so many one liners, so.Dr. Katrina Furey: Many zach galifinacus, was this like his first big movie? I feel like he probably did other.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Stuff before, but this is like memorable.Dr. Katrina Furey: For me, for the general population. But he is so funny. Just like you said, like a lot of one liners. As he's saying it, I was like, oh, my god, I forgot about like, well, yeah, you can't ********** on a plane anymore since 911 or all of.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: A sudden him saying that he can't be within 2200ft of a school. Okay, is that from the masturbating on.Dr. Katrina Furey: A plane or that would do it. Yeah, that very well could do it. But yeah. So many funny, funny lines. It is really funny.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: So just kind of being a little bit nostalgic. It was released in 2009. We both kind of pre just sitting down now. We're like the music. There's so many good throwbacks.Dr. Katrina Furey: I know. Like all the songs they picked, like the ti and rihanna song, a lot of kanye west songs. A lot of the music was so I loved at the end, the band at the wedding.Dr. Katrina Furey: Oh, yes.Dr. Katrina Furey: What song were they singing? Candy shop. Is that like a $0.50? But I just love how he's so into it and all up in the elderly people's space. I just love that sometimes. I love a good wedding movie like this. I was like, we should watch Bridesmaids sometime and talk about it. Totally. Some of them are just so good.Dr. Katrina Furey: Oh, my God.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: So we did want to kind of just add in that a lot of the comments also have not aged well.Dr. Katrina Furey: And we do not support using slurs any kind.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I mean, there's a lot of racism.Dr. Katrina Furey: And ableism and homophobia. Phobia. Yeah, a lot. Like, really? Right in your face. Right from the jump. And I was like, oh, I don't think you could make this movie today.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And I'm used to catching it on TV and seeing 20 minutes. Here they are laughing hysterically. And I think they do also edit some of this stuff on TV when it's shown.Dr. Katrina Furey: Oh, you mean you're used to catching the hangover on TV? Yes. Like on TBS or something. Where there's commercials. Yeah, for sure. I think they'd edit it out.Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: So watching it on Netflix, and we were excited because it was released to Netflix. I think they got all three of them. And so that's why we were like, let's do it. And then I was like, wow, okay, I'm taking some notes on it. And I'm, like, feeling a little uncomfortable.Dr. Katrina Furey: I know. Yeah, 100%.Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah.Dr. Katrina Furey: So that stuff we do not support, we will come out and say wholeheartedly yes.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: So the movie, we were like, how do we even talk about this? We kind of wanted to just spend time on relationship and then like, substance use, drug use, just like some maybe like educational info on that. And then just like, obviously the hilarity of waking up and having a tiger.Dr. Katrina Furey: In your I know, it's really, really funny. And I kept thinking, like, was this the one where Stu gets the tattoo? But I guess not. I guess that maybe is the second or third one.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I thought it was for a moment because Mike Tyson is in it.Dr. Katrina Furey: Right. But I think that's like, maybe the next one.Dr. Katrina Furey: I don't know.Dr. Katrina Furey: Maybe we'll have to watch it. Yeah. So to give a rundown of the characters, in case you haven't seen this movie in the past 15 years or so. So we have Doug, who is played by Justin Bartha. Is that his last name? I can't remember. He's like the groom who's set to be married. Side note, do people actually have bachelor parties that close to their wedding day? That seems like a terrible idea.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yeah, no, not that I've ever been right.Dr. Katrina Furey: Usually it's months ahead. And I think this is why. This is like a cautionary. So we have he's going to be the groom. Then we have Alan, who's played by Zach Alfanakis, who is the brother of Tracy, I think is the bride's name. Oh, my God, he is so funny. I'm sure we'll talk more about him.Dr. Katrina Furey: Then.Dr. Katrina Furey: We have Bradley Cooper, looking beautiful. Such a snack, as they say in the role of Phil. I love that his name is Phil, too, but he's, like, really beautiful, and he's a teacher.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: It makes it just funny, like, everything about him, his beauty, and then that's what he does. And then he seems like he doesn't really like his life, or so he says. Steals money from the kids, field trip.Dr. Katrina Furey: To go to Vegas.Dr. Katrina Furey: But I don't know, at the end.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: He was, like, super stoked to see.Dr. Katrina Furey: His family, so that was nice. And then we have Stu, played by Ed Helms, who's hilarious. I thought he was so funny. I'd never seen him in anything before, the Hangover, and now I've seen him in a lot of different things.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Tell me what he's been in since.Dr. Katrina Furey: Oh, Porsche. He voiced the particular role of The Lorax and the animated film The Lorax, which, again, you would not have seen.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: But I have seen many times. Yeah, I've seen the original.Dr. Katrina Furey: There's an original lorax.Dr. Katrina Furey: Oh, yeah.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: From, like, childhood. It's like a cartoon. I mean, I've saw it when I was a child.Dr. Katrina Furey: Oh, but you haven't seen the modern day correct spin off, right?Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah.Dr. Katrina Furey: And he sings, like, all the songs. Yeah, I've listened to them ad nauseam. And I choose that phrase deliberately.Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I feel like I'm picking up what you're putting down.Dr. Katrina Furey: And then we have Ken Jiang, who plays the role of what was his leslie. What was his last name? I don't remember Leslie.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: He was just, like, a funny little.Dr. Katrina Furey: What did you think of his character? Side note again, doing a lot of side notes this morning. He was originally training to be a physician. I don't know if he was a physician or if he then broke away and decided to pursue acting in comedy, but I always remembered that because I think this came out right as I was applying to medical school, and I was like, that's interesting.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yeah, I've seen a couple of his comedy specials.Dr. Katrina Furey: Oh god. Netflix.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yeah, they're hilarious. I think he's so funny, and I believe that he was like he went all the way through. I think he is like a medical doctor and was just, like, basically for.Dr. Katrina Furey: Me, basically, he's in my music. I picked up a lot of racism with his character, which I wasn't loving.Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah, what else did he not in.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: It for that long. Again, he's so funny. His comedy specials are hilarious, and he's been in way more since then.Dr. Katrina Furey: But I think he wasn't in it long. But he was like a broke breakout star. And him jumping out his voice trunk of the car and just, like, all the little things he was saying were really funny. And then in one of the sequels, I think he has a much bigger role than the sequels, if I remember correctly. But so he's hilarious.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Mike Tyson makes Mike appearance, which is.Dr. Katrina Furey: Hilarious random, but then it made sense. Like, oh, that's Mike Tyson's, tiger.Dr. Katrina Furey: I don't know.Dr. Katrina Furey: I really liked how the whole movie unfolded. How it starts with the wedding day and you see they're all disheveled, and you're like, oh, my God. And then the flashback is they're, like, trying to piece together their night.Dr. Katrina Furey: I don't know.Dr. Katrina Furey: I really liked that.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: So basically, you see them take the car, right? So Alan's father's car, he lets Doug take, which is a classic.Dr. Katrina Furey: It looks beautiful.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And there's all these rules around. Don't let Alan don't have a tiger destroy the leather seats.Dr. Katrina Furey: He forgot to mention that rule. Yeah, he didn't specify that rule.Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Don't get T boned by people who are trying to kill you with guns.Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah.Dr. Katrina Furey: Didn't specify that either. He didn't let Alan drive. Correct.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: So we have to be really careful with directions we give.Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah.Dr. Katrina Furey: It's really important to communicate clearly, effectively and deliberately. Right. We talk about this all the time. We can't read mines.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yeah.Dr. Katrina Furey: Right away.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: We also see that Stu is lying to his partner.Dr. Katrina Furey: What do you think of Melissa?Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I mean, she sounds abusive and best. Like, horrible.Dr. Katrina Furey: Horrible.Dr. Katrina Furey: I just loved I rewound and watched their first scene together twice and I could do it many times because it was so funny.Dr. Katrina Furey: Yes.Dr. Katrina Furey: She's like, don't forget the rogue.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Don't forget to use it.Dr. K…

Full show notes at the publisher

"White Lotus" Season 2 Jul 24, 2023

Show notes

Welcome back to Analyze Scripts, where a psychiatrist and a therapist analyze what Hollywood gets right and wrong about mental health. Today, we are analyzing "White Lotus" Season 2. In this season we follow Tanya and Greg to beautiful Sicily where the water is a dreamy blue and the passion red hot. This season has received 23 Emmy nominations and we think they deserve them all! We continue to analyze Tanya for a personality disorder, discuss the power and currency of sex, and talk all things complicated relationships. If you are missing this season come along with us to admire the clothing, food and of course their mental health. We hope you enjoy!InstagramTik Tok Website Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Hi, I'm Dr. Katrina Fury, a psychiatrist.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And I'm Portia Pendleton, a licensed clinical social worker.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: And this is Analyze Scripts, a podcast where two shrinks analyze the depiction of mental health in movies and TV shows.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Our hope is that you learn some legit info about mental health while feeling like you're chatting with your girlfriends.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: There is so much misinformation out there, and it drives us nuts.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And if someday we pay off our student loans or land a sponsorship, like.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: With a lay flat airline or a major beauty brand, even better.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: So sit back, relax, grab some popcorn.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: And your DSM Five, and enjoy.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Welcome back to another episode of Analyze Scripts. Today we are covering White Lotus, season two. I'm so excited. The scenery is beautiful. They're in Italy.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Oh, my gosh.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I just want to be there.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: You've been to Italy?Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I have that part or a different no. So I think this is in Sicily.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Yes.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: So I visited Naples and then Positano and Capri.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Oh, wow. Oh. Was it like this?Portia Pendleton, LCSW: It was literally everything of the sort. Like, stunning, beautiful, incredible. The food I could write home about every day. Just the most beautiful, stunning place ever I've been.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: I mean, that reads true in this series. It looks so beautiful.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I definitely want to go there. I noticed, too, in season one of White Lotus, right, there's a lot of cuts of the water, the waves crashing, that the water scene often either comes out of or into another scene of a person. It kind of fades into the scene of underwater or something. So I think that's like an interesting.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: And sometimes it would be like the waves are slowly, gently crashing. Other times, there's a big crash. And I feel like that was purposeful and sort of played into the scene or what's going on with the then, you know, spoiler alert. Tanya eventually dies in the water.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: The water takes her.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: The water takes her. She almost made it. Like, I thought she was going to make it, and then she slips.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I think that was they said the writer director was commenting on how it was so important for him that Tanya did not die at the hands of someone else, that she still was kind of able like, she still was in charge even though she slipped and died, but he didn't want her being killed. Know the quote unquote gaze?Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Yes.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Oh, my gosh.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: So let's just jump right in, I think, with Tanya. Yes. So we talked a little bit about our feelings toward her last time we recapped season one. We talked a lot about how she displays some traits and characteristics of borderline personality disorder and how the character talks about how her mother actually also had borderline personality disorder. Did you feel, Portia, like that was consistent in season two or I think so, yeah. What did you notice?Portia Pendleton, LCSW: So I think, again, her interpersonal experiences with both Greg with know, fun to see my name in the light, for one. She just seems to really be only thinking about. Right. So, like can't hear Portia. They were having a conversation. We were talking about this before the podcast. And it's like she almost like tunes her. It's kind of is talking over her. Just goes back to her. Right, right. She can't even hear Portia. I think she's asking for a day off to Albie.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Yeah, there was that scene where Portia was like, I know I'm kind of on the clock, but could I take the day and hang out with Albie? And she sort of tries to make a case for it, and there's like a pause. And then Tanya just keeps talking about her own issues. Like doesn't even acknowledge that Portia said anything. Almost like Portia didn't say anything. And I think that actually so tracks with people with cluster b traits, whether it's borderline narcissistic histrionic that the way they relate to other people is almost like other people in their lives are objects that are only there. To serve a purpose in relation to really? They can't see these people as their own independent humans who have their own wants and needs, who are both good and bad. Right, exactly. And so Tanya couldn't even hear it, didn't even register in her consciousness that Portia was asking for some distance from her. And I think that probably played into her intense fear of abandonment. And she just didn't even acknowledge it. I thought that was such a smartly written scene. And I wonder if the writers were really going for that, if they knew, or if that just happened, if that's just the way I'm interpreting it.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I feel like it's got to be intentional just because it's so perfect, you know? And Greg also says to her at one point, I think at the beginning when he sees that Portia is there, they get into a fight and he says, you discard people. You drop people on a dime, you fire people. And then she calls him a full of ****, man. And then she says, I hate so. Like, I think that even their dynamic you see over the couple of episodes that he's there in Italy with her for, she's really easily know. She's really emotive. Which again, if someone was on vacation with me, like my partner, and all of a sudden they were like, oh yeah, I'm going to leave you for two days, I might have a reaction to that as well.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: It was unknown. So again, maybe that's why she brought Portia, because she had a feeling he was going to leave and she didn't want to be.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: So my question is the ultimate kind of problem or issue, I guess I would say with Bpd is right, the fear of abandonment. And so is Tanya picking up on Greg's right like other relationship, his obviously very nefarious plan to have her murdered know, I think this is hard talking with clients. It's like, are you picking up on something that's real or not?Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Or are you projecting such a difficult question?Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Exactly.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: That is such a hard question. I also think as a therapist, it's really hard when you only have your patient's perspective. I wonder if that's easier to pick up in couples or family work. But I think that's part of the therapy is learning where your own baggage ends and where the person you're interacting with begins. And that is almost like the definition of an interpersonal boundary which people with these personality disorders really struggle with. And we see that displayed so know throughout this series with Tanya. And I think you're totally like, at first when I was watching this, I thought Greg was upset Portia was there because he wanted to just be on vacation with her. Then I realized it's because he was planning to murder her and didn't want a witness. But yeah, why did she bring Portia? Like a why does she have an why? Um, but I wonder if she was picking up on, like, pulling like, we easily see that. We also easily saw that in season, like, from the yeah. And we talked about how, like, isn't a safe attachment figure for her, but that's probably what she's used to. So for her, that feels like it's, you know, and we just see how mean he is to her, like, with the macaroons. Right?Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yeah, totally.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: So mean. He's just always putting her down, always criticizing her. It's just mean.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And in some points, I was like, it's interesting, Tanya's interpretation of that. Right.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: She said to herself, like, oh, he.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Cares so much about me. That's why he's saying that. And it's like, no, he just said something mean to you. But then, on the other hand, she has a quote unquote inappropriate reaction to something that isn't that bad. So it's just like her it's skewed where and again, I'm a third party. I'm also a therapist. It's also a show, but I'm watching. I'm like, Tanya, you should have had a bigger reaction to him, like food shaming you and a lesser reaction over here, right.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: And a bigger reaction when you overhear him in the bathroom saying, like, I love you. I'll be there soon. And I know, right?Portia Pendleton, LCSW: That's what was just, like, interesting, confusing, and I think maybe difficult for someone who doesn't know or isn't thinking about her in terms of Bpd.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Yeah. But I also wonder if that is just, like, a really accurate portrayal of the inner world of someone with Bpd. She was saying at one point to Portia later on in the season, basically saying, like, Portia, you remind me a lot of me when I was younger, and you could see Portia, like, recoil inside, like, no, no, I don't want to be like you. But then she said to Portia, when you're empty inside and you have no direction, you'll end up in some crazy places, but you'll still be lost. I think she said that to her after Portia and Jack sort of, like, dined and ditched, and Portia was, like, sort of high off the thrill of that. And Tanya was like, Aaron, teeny balls are like a like, what are you doing with this guy? And I just thought that spoke to another core feature of borderline personality disorder, which is this pervasive inner sense of emptiness. And I think that's exactly what Tanya was speaking to. And I thought that was just, like, a really beautiful way to put words to a really difficult experience. And I just thought in general, we've really got a feel for the chaotic inner world of, like, in all of her big reactions, her small reactions, where you think they should have been bigger, and just kind of all of it. Like, her whole character, I thought, really just portrayed the inner emotional chaos people with Bpd often feel and how, again, that's in such discrepancy to also their inner emptiness. And that goes right back to that old sort of, like, splitting defense mechanism. Right. It's just fascinating and just really well written, really well portrayed.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yeah. I think Tanya I wish that she could go on to season three. I know I'm definitely disappointed that she's not going to be, but also, I think that was intentional. This was the end of her story, and we'll see if there's some talks that maybe Portia is in season three.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: I would love that.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: That was a cliffhanger. Like, what does she do with this? You know, is in this weird position of being scared and not sure if it was Tanya. Right. She learns from Albie that a guest was found dead in the water, and then there was this ship with all these gunshot weddings, and that's kind of all she knows.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: And I just think I hate I.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Just how dare you?Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: How dare you? Greg and I just feel like he's going to get off, like, he's going to inherit all the money. He just used everyone he used. Right. Like, we come to find that Greg was like, the cowboy from the past that Quinton was in love with. And it sounds like I didn't quite understand why Quentin felt such loyalty to Greg, but he's, like, doing his dirty work, I think for financial reasons, too. Like, Greg's like, I'll give you some of the money. It sounds like Quentin really needed it. He's kind of spent all his money, but he used that love from Quentin to get rid of his wife so he could get the money. And he also knew that Quentin and his friends could suck Tanya in, and she would quickly idealize them, which she does with everyone, and she did. And they knew how to make her feel exactly how to manipulate. I was like, is he trying to give her make the last week of her life the best ever. Like, even when they play out her fantasy in Italy on the Vespa, which I thought was hilarious, I was like, on the one hand, you're like, is that kind of nice? But then you know you're going to kill her, or is it just like you're getting even more over on her?Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Well, and how do you do that as a person, right? Like, if we try to diagnose Greg, what does that even look like? I mean, you come into someone's life and have the gall to take their family money after being married to them for a year. It's just so gross. How do you think you can do that?Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: I think he's, like a know, and I think he just is so and again, like, is looking and relating to Tanya as just like a means to an end for like, she's an object to him, and now he's ready to discard her and kill her. And I was just so sad that it took her so long to figure it out. And even as she is shooting the gays, as she calls them, she asks, is Greg having an affair? And again, it just speaks to that is the core fear of abandonment. Like her life is in danger, and she still wants that answer. Right.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Because that's more heartbreaking.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Right? It's just so heartbreaking because it's almost.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Like the money isn't about her, but him cheating on her is about her.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Right. And her just being so rejected and unimportant, and yet he treats her as unimportant, and he rejects her all the time, and she's constantly coming back, wanting to feel good enough, and she's just not. Like, she'll never get that with him, but she doesn't have a secure sense of self enough to be able to walk away.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: No, totally. I think, too, there was some question of were we seeing more borderline traits with her or more histrionic traits, right, yeah. So histrionic just a little bit of background is in the same cluster as borderline. You experience discomfort when you're not the center of attention. You might engage in provocative or dramatic behavior. There's, like, mood swings, over the top, displays of emotion. So some of these sound, like, pretty in line with Bpd, seeking reassurance or validation. Extreme sensitivity to criticism. Impulsive behavior, easily influenced, but also, like, a lack of concern for others, which I think in some ways, Bpd, it's not a lack of concern of others due to being how do I say this? Because you want to. It's almost like you have deep concern for others. You are often just so stuck in your head about you because your emotions are so intense. A lot of people with Bpd have care. Loved ones do have great relationships, are often used or often v…

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"Legally Blonde" Jul 17, 2023

Show notes

Welcome back to Analyze Scripts, where a psychiatrist and a therapist analyze what Hollywood gets right and wrong about mental health. Today, we're analyzing the 2001 rom-com "Legally Blonde." Although some parts of this move (particularly the lack of diversity) haven't aged well, it was fun to revisit the '90s. We admire Elle's strong sense of self and the way she was able to use it to help others like Paulette. We enjoyed the way this movie tackled serious topics like sexual harrassment, imposter syndrome, and emotional abuse in the context of the broader comedy. We hope you enjoy!https://www.instagram.com/analyzescripts/https://www.tiktok.com/@analyzescriptspodcastWebsite[00:10] Dr. Katrina Furey: Hi, I'm Dr. Katrina Fury, a psychiatrist.[00:12] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And I'm Portia Pendleton, a licensed clinical social worker.[00:16] Dr. Katrina Furey: And this is Analyze Scripts, a podcast where two shrinks analyze the depiction of mental health in movies and TV shows.[00:23] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Our hope is that you learn some legit info about mental health while feeling like you're chatting with your girlfriend.[00:28] Dr. Katrina Furey: There is so much misinformation out there and it drives us nuts.[00:32] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And if someday we pay off our student loans or land a sponsorship, like.[00:36] Dr. Katrina Furey: With a lay flat airline or a major beauty brand, even better.[00:39] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: So sit back, relax, grab some popcorn.[00:42] Dr. Katrina Furey: And your DSM Five and enjoy.[00:55] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Hi, thanks for joining us today. We are going to recap a little bit before we get into the movie that we're covering, Legally Blonde. So stay tuned. We have so much Emmy news.[01:06] Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah, we have a ton of Emmy news. The Emmy nominations came out last week and a lot of the shows that we have covered over the past few months were heavily nominated, including Succession, White Lotus, Yellow Jackets and Shrinking. So if you hadn't had a chance to listen to all those episodes, please go back and take a listen.[01:25] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yeah, I mean, I think none of them were surprised.[01:27] Dr. Katrina Furey: No, but I was surprised. I mean, I wasn't surprised. Succession got 27 nominations. White Lotus got 23. White Lotus season two, which we're actually going to release an episode about next week. I thought that was like a great season, but I was a little surprised it got so heavily nominated. And I don't know if you notice, Portia, but in the supporting actor in a drama category, it's all White Lotus and Succession actors.[01:54] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: That's it.[01:54] Dr. Katrina Furey: No one else from anything else. And I was like, whoa, they're going to duke it out.[01:58] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yeah, they're all so good. So it's just like, how can you even I don't know. They're all good for different reasons, right?[02:06] Dr. Katrina Furey: How do you pick one? And also the best supporting actress is very heavily White Lotus and Succession, including the two actresses whose names are escaping me right now, but they play the two native Italian girls in White Lotus season two. I was really glad that they got nominated. And our BFF, Jennifer Coolidge got a nomination. So that's exciting.[02:26] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yeah, really excited. And I was most excited to see Jessica Williams for shrinking, too.[02:31] Dr. Katrina Furey: I hope she wins. Gabby, gabby.[02:34] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Gabby character.[02:35] Dr. Katrina Furey: We love her. We love her water bottles. We love her energy.[02:39] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I think people are also finding shrinking right now, like later. Yeah.[02:43] Dr. Katrina Furey: So again, if you haven't listened to our episodes yet, I think we have like four episodes about shrinking because we tried to split it up and there.[02:49] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Was so much to talk about.[02:51] Dr. Katrina Furey: But it's also really funny. I thought Yellow Jackets might have gotten more nominations. I was a little I mean, again, great. They got nominated for outstanding drama. Melanie Linsky got nominated. But I know everyone was really pushing for Sophie Nielsen. I don't know if I'm saying her name correctly as Young Shauna. I didn't see her name there. That's kind of a bummer.[03:11] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I don't know. Thinking about yellow jackets, like, not a lot of people I know have seen it. I think there's another person who I interact with who watched yellow jackets because I told them about it.[03:23] Dr. Katrina Furey: Are you basically saying we're influencers?[03:25] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Basically, I'm an influencer at the couch.[03:28] Dr. Katrina Furey: Basically, if Showtime or HBO wants to sponsor us, feel free.[03:31] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yeah. So I'm spreading the news. But I think that's the problem with that show. It's on Showtime, which, again, is like HBO Max or Max. But I don't think Showtime is as big. I feel like I'm using air quotes. Like, everyone has Max. Yeah, but not everyone has Showtime.[03:48] Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah, no, I could see that. But then with these awards, at least with the Oscars, I feel like a lot of times more obscure things do get a lot of nominations or end up winning. I don't know if it's that way for the Emmys. I'm not really hip to that insider info. I will say I was really happy to hear Vanderpump Rules got nominated. Just as a tangent, I thought, again, I love trash reality TV, but I do think this season was really good and they totally deserve it. And the editors got nominated, too, which I think is super well deserved.[04:21] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And I wonder if that's, like a precedent.[04:25] Dr. Katrina Furey: Oh, sorry, what were we going to say?[04:27] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: No, just like editing reality TV. We see producers or writers or editors for all these fictional, amazing shows, but they're working hard, too.[04:36] Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah. And I think it is interesting that I feel like in the Bravo sphere, vanderpump Rules has always been seen as kind of like the little sister to maybe like The Housewives or all these other shows. But they got nominated, so I kind of feel like it's like the underdog coming out, which, again, kind of reminds me of Elle Woods being the underdog that no one saw coming.[05:00] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yeah. That's a great segue.[05:01] Dr. Katrina Furey: I like you. Thank you. It just came naturally.[05:04] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: That's when you know it's better. So yeah. So, Legally Blonde, we're going to be discussing today, it came out in 2001.[05:11] Dr. Katrina Furey: Wow.[05:11] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: So it's pretty old.[05:13] Dr. Katrina Furey: Just like us.[05:14] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Just like us.[05:15] Dr. Katrina Furey: Like me, at least.[05:17] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Did you watch it when it came out?[05:19] Dr. Katrina Furey: Oh, yeah.[05:21] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Monumental. Yes.[05:22] Dr. Katrina Furey: I've seen this movie a bazillions of times.[05:25] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I've seen it on TV. Every time it's on, I think I just have it on in the background.[05:28] Dr. Katrina Furey: You didn't go to, like, the movies with your friend? I didn't go to movies. So, again, I feel like I'm not that much older than you, but in this context, I am reminded that I am. And again I feel like am I the Paulette to your l? No.[05:43] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Maybe if you can teach me how to Bendon's now. Yeah, I totally can, but no, I think those couple of years, though, matter based on where we were at during those years. I was in heightening, I was twelve. That makes a big difference for TV and shows at that time.[06:03] Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah, for sure. I mean, I love watching this movie because I think it reminds me of my younger years seeing it with my friends from Dance. We all had those little heart necklaces, the knockoff Tiffany necklaces. I love the bubble letter font and all the colors. Yeah, exactly. Like all that stuff. It's really nostalgic in that way. But when I rewatched it in preparation for recording this, I was like, oh my gosh, Elle Woods is such an amazing character. I don't know what was your reaction to kind of rewatching it as an adult?[06:39] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I think when I've rewatched the movies that we've covered that are older, I continually am cringing at some of the.[06:48] Dr. Katrina Furey: Things like diverse they are true. Or how some of the language, they.[06:54] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Still say things that I'm just like, OOH yikes. And I will say some of the things that I've heard are words that they've used in Legally Blonde in The Hangover. They do edit them out.[07:07] Dr. Katrina Furey: Like when you see a TV now, like, I'm thinking when Jennifer Cool just character says the R word, maybe.[07:11] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yes. So when they're replaying on E, those parts are not on TV. So I did.[07:18] Dr. Katrina Furey: Watch this.[07:18] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Like I think I forget. Where Amazon Prime? I think I did too. And then it's the full movie with all the glory and I was just like I think it's because I'm being more analytical and nitty gritty and looking for things.[07:32] Dr. Katrina Furey: Well now, Portia, we are like scholars of film. We are we're not only scholars of mental health and psychiatry, we are scholars of film and we're combining these interests. So of course we are watching it with an analytic lens.[07:43] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: A little bit of a disappointment, to be honest.[07:46] Dr. Katrina Furey: I noticed that too, with some of the language and also in terms of diversity, I think I saw like one black person and it was the student that Professor Stramo like, hit in the head with the pen. And I was like, really? The whole movie? The whole movie. That's the one black person, they get hit in the head with a pen. So I think that's speaking to exactly what you're saying.[08:05] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yeah, and then also, just like it was funny watching it on Greek Life, all the stuff on every fall now on TikTok, and I think it was a big disappointment. But the HBO Max sorority, it was supposed to be this big exposure of Alabama sororities and ended up not doing any of that. So I think everyone's interested in Greek life. And I think this again. I mean, legally, Bomb is like, really stereotypical Greek life.[08:33] Dr. Katrina Furey: A lot of girls exercising, like they were depicted exercising constantly.[08:37] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Dieting, dieting.[08:39] Dr. Katrina Furey: They're all skinny, all same body type super cute, but I definitely noticed that too. And I wasn't in a sorority or anything, so I have no idea if that's really what Greek life is like or if that's like a fantasy. Probably a fantasy.[08:52] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I think it depends. At least I've heard that it also depends where you are, like, if you're in a sorority or fraternity in the Northeast, it is very different than, like, the south. From the south.[09:02] Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah.[09:02] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Where I don't know. I also was not a participant in Greek life. I know of some people who have had wonderful experiences and some people who have had horrible experiences, and then rumors of, again, some stereotypical things happening with hazing or weight checks and stuff like that. So I don't know. I mean, I think, again, it depends where you go to school and the culture of that specific chapter there in.[09:30] Dr. Katrina Furey: I mean, I liked the Delta News. I loved Elle's. Two little best friends. Again, it's like the comedy. Yes, the one who got banks. But it's a comedy. It's over the top. But I did feel like they were so supportive of her desire to go to law school, and they were helping her study, and they were all so excited when she opened her LSAT envelope.[09:52] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Very lifting her up.[09:54] Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah, I loved that. And I think also watching it now in this phase of my life, I just connected with her in every step of the way to get to law school, and I was like, this does hearken back to how hard it is to take the MCAs. Like, getting into medical school, finding yourself, a lot of it just made me feel really good. Yeah, exactly. My interviews for medical school were not.[10:17] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: A tape you had to fly right?[10:20] Dr. Katrina Furey: Or go to yeah. Back in the day before Zoom. Yeah. You had to gosh. I mean, I think I took the MCAT twice. It was really hard. I took an MCAT prep class that I won in a raffle. I never would have been able to afford that if I hadn't won in a raffle. And then yeah, you had to fly to each school to interview, and it was really scary. They were really interviewing you and expensive.[10:43] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I mean, expensive to other parts of the country where you might get in and might need to go there or might not.[10:51] Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah, it was expensive. I remember for applying for residency, I took up more student loans to be able to afford to fly around to the different places to interview. I mean, on the one hand, it's nice to get an actual feel for the place you're going to be living, the people you're going to be either going to school with or working with. On the other hand, having the Zoom interviews would have saved a ton of money.[11:15] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yeah.[11:16] Dr. Katrina Furey: But I guess you don't really get as much of a feel for culture. No, I couldn't. No, I could. I don't think it would have been really as received as well as at Harvard Law.[11:26] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I did like the scene where it was like eight white males who were looking at her tape and I liked that they were like, let's give it a shot. This is so different.[11:37] Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah, that never would happen in real life. But I thought they were really playing tongue in cheek in this desire to have a more diverse class. Again, kind of disappointing given how undiverse the movie was. I guess. Just interesting.[11:54] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: It was really about, I think, when she got to Harvard, like, being literally blonde. Right? So even at the last scene of the movie when it's that they're all in their caps and gowns. It's like it's spanning everyone and there's like it's just brown hair, brown hair.[12:08] Dr. Katrina Furey: Brown hair, brown hair, blonde. And I loved that Elle Woods had this sense of self confidence and assurance in her own sense of self.[12:17] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Like, I can do this. What do you mean? I'm going to study hard. And she worked hard and she did.[12:22] Dr. Katrina Furey: Do it, but I was just like, wow. I actually really admired that about her character. And I think you could totally hate this character because she obviously has a lot of privilege, a lot of money, these things. Like, she's not taking out student loans to apply to law school. But you don't hate her, I think, because she's also really kind and sweet and genuine and she is working hard. And I thought all the people around her who were so judgy were just, like, so mean. They're just so mean.[12:50] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And in the context of like, they all also have a lot of money. It's like everyone in the same group. She's the nicest and sweetest…

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"White Lotus" Season 1 Jul 10, 2023

Show notes

Welcome back to Analyze Scripts, where a psychiatrist and a therapist analyze what Hollywood gets right and wrong about mental health. Today, "Jennifer Coolidge July" continues with "White Lotus" Season 1. Who doesn't love this show?! In this episode, we dig into the toxic interpersonal dynamics depicted in all of the relationships amongst the main characters. We spend a lot of time analyzing Tanya's manipulation of Belinda and discuss which behaviors are consistent with borderline personality disorder (BPD). We also explore what keeps Rachel and Mark connected to Shane and Nicole, respectively, and poke fun at Olivia's "wokeness." We hope you enjoy! PS RIP Armond.[00:10] Dr. Katrina Furey: Hi, I'm Dr. Katrina Fury, a psychiatrist.[00:12] Portia Pendleton: And I'm Portia Pendleton, a licensed clinical social worker.[00:16] Dr. Katrina Furey: And this is Analyze Scripts, a podcast where two shrinks analyze the depiction of mental health in movies and TV shows.[00:23] Portia Pendleton: Our hope is that you learn some legit info about mental health while feeling like you're chatting with your girlfriend.[00:28] Dr. Katrina Furey: There is so much misinformation out there, and it drives us nuts.[00:32] Portia Pendleton: And if someday we pay off our student loans or land a sponsorship, like.[00:36] Dr. Katrina Furey: With a lay flat airline or a major beauty brand, even better.[00:39] Portia Pendleton: So sit back, relax, grab some popcorn.[00:42] Dr. Katrina Furey: And your DSM Five, and enjoy. Hi, welcome back. We are so excited you're joining us today to talk about the hit HBO show White Lotus Season One, as part of our Jennifer Coolidge July Celebration. We hope everyone had a really wonderful July 4 weekend, and we hope you ate all the hot dogs you could get your hands on. Yeah, I did. Porsche. I want to start a little differently than usual because something just really interesting happened to me during my July 4 celebration. Okay. I went with my family to Legoland, which is a really wonderful place for little kids. And on July 4, they had this whole celebration. They had really cool fireworks with 3D glasses, where when the fireworks exploded, they looked like Legos. I thought that was really cool, and I was really trying to figure out the science because not every light was connected to a Lego. So it had something to do with the frequency and the electrons, and I just get really nerdy about these things. But then they also had a fire dancer, right? Like, would you expect that at a child theme park? No. And so we Legoland.[01:58] Portia Pendleton: Maybe like Disney World.[01:59] Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah, they had a fire dancer. They were really pulling out all the stops. They also had the Brick Street Boys, because everything is like brick themed with the Lego brick, everything's brick tastic. And, you know, I love the Max Tree Boys, so that was titillating. But this fire dancer, we stumbled across her as we were leaving, and obviously we had to stop and watch her and just imagine she is like five foot zero at the most. Like, on a good day. She's itty bitty, teeny tiny, wearing a full on white unitard, like full on bodysuit with red and white horizontal stripes, so she looks like a firecracker. And then she had this beautiful bleach blonde hair, but with these long, long bangs and these bright red lips.[02:49] Portia Pendleton: Oh, no.[02:49] Dr. Katrina Furey: And I kept worrying, like, is her hair going to catch on fire? Right? I was just like, I loved her look, her hair is wonderful.[02:56] Portia Pendleton: Or it is.[02:58] Dr. Katrina Furey: I don't know. I would think your hair would catch on fire. But then I think also, like, the fire they use has got to be not real fire because then she starts, like, eating it. So she's also maybe a fire eater.[03:08] Portia Pendleton: Okay.[03:08] Dr. Katrina Furey: So I just thought it was really fascinating because she's, like, in this awesome outfit, a little sensual for Legoland, the theme park and doing these moves that are not, like, seductive per se, but sensual with fire. It was just really interesting to see all these children watching this. And what I loved is the music she picked first, obviously. Miley Cyrus partying in the USA. Getting her fire going. Sometimes the flames would go out because it was a little windy and she had, like, all sorts of different fire sticks. And then do you know this song that's like the grand finale song. It was like, Partying USA. Yeah. She's, like, dancing around with her little fire sticks, and then she transitions to the fans. It's like a fire fan. And she lights each one slowly and kind of seductively to that song that's like, light them up, light them up, light them up. And it was just like, wonderful. I don't know, it was just really interesting.[04:08] Portia Pendleton: That's making me think of the yes.[04:10] Dr. Katrina Furey: The hula dancing in white Lotus. I know. And I was just like it didn't feel like cultural appropriation, I guess, in this case. Although in White Lotus it kind of does, right? So I don't know. It was just really interesting having a fire dancer at a child's theme park. Kind of very sensual, really. Like maybe pushing the line, but not quite. And then I just kept worrying her hair was going to catch on fire. My children would see this awful, traumatic thing. And then she ended by eating the fire. And then my son was like, does she **** fire? And I was like, great question, great question, great question. Right? And then I was like, does her esophagus get burned? What are the ins and outs of being a fire dancer? What are the hazards of the trade?[05:00] Portia Pendleton: There's got to be I mean, there's a risk of being burned, right?[05:03] Dr. Katrina Furey: Right. Is it like, just real fire or is it some sort of special fire for fire dancers that's safe to consume?[05:12] Portia Pendleton: I have no idea.[05:13] Dr. Katrina Furey: No idea. So if anyone knows, DM us and let us know.[05:16] Portia Pendleton: Fire.[05:19] Dr. Katrina Furey: Speaking of things that are hot, white Lotus, super hot show.[05:23] Portia Pendleton: Jennifer coolidge.[05:24] Dr. Katrina Furey: Super hot. Like, at all stages of life, she is the queen. So, yeah. Where do you want to start?[05:31] Portia Pendleton: I think we have to start with Tanya. I mean, all weekend, it's just so relevant. I kept wanting to do the on.[05:39] Dr. Katrina Furey: A hot dog real bad. Yeah. Which I think is from legally blood. Yes. But we'll cover that next time. Gosh. Jennifer coolidge.[05:52] Portia Pendleton: So we see her making her way to the White Lotus resort by herself, and then we learn that she has her mother's ashes in tow. Seems like it was a recent death from how she's acting appropriately during grief. It's coming in and out. Sometimes she's fine, other times she's really upset and her idea is to kind of leave some of the ashes in the water off the coast of Hawaii.[06:18] Dr. Katrina Furey: Right. Which sounds beautiful. And I feel like people do that. People do that. But we see her sort of disembark that little tiny boat that's coming to the white Lotus with all the employees just waving and smiling. I loved how this series ended with them doing that again, except now we know more of the backstory and that made me really sad to see they're all there fake smiles, and she's just kind of a mess from the jump.[06:46] Portia Pendleton: Yeah. We see her pretty quickly at the spa right down there. And she really wants an appointment.[06:53] Dr. Katrina Furey: They don't have any. She's kind of freaking out, kind of pushy. And then Belinda, the lovely spa manager, or maybe just employee, makes room for her. Right. So right away we see some boundary pushing and crossing with Tanya McQuad and Belinda, which we just see continue.[07:14] Portia Pendleton: So it kind of starts their relationship. Right. I mean, again, I'm using relationship with air quotes right now because relationships are really two ways.[07:23] Dr. Katrina Furey: Exactly. But I think, as we see with Tanya, this is a one way relationship. And I think that's a theme we see carried through for a lot of these different characters.[07:32] Portia Pendleton: Yeah. So Belinda provides a service to Tanya that Tanya believes is like, life changing. And she's healed now immediately. And she wants to spend as much time as possible with Belinda, who is doing her job and becomes pretty pushy and almost so manipulative. It doesn't get sooner right off the bat with the money right. And her opening a spot together that comes a little later, like midway through the season. But you can just see Tanya's needs very needy, trying to kind of do whatever she wants, crossing inappropriate employee guest boundaries. You can see Belinda feels uncomfortable but.[08:14] Dr. Katrina Furey: Goes along with it.[08:15] Portia Pendleton: A really high end place where I'm like, I feel like this probably in some ways is a norm. Like, you go above and beyond for a guest.[08:24] Dr. Katrina Furey: There's probably a lot of entitlement, which I think we see maybe especially with Shane kind of with all of them, though, there's a huge sense of entitlement. And we see Belinda sort of bend over backwards to make room for Tanya right at the start. And then Tanya idealizes her right away. Belinda is the be all and end all. The greatest thing that ever happened to her. She wants to shout it from the rooftops. And how did you feel, Portia, watching that? Did you start to get icky feelings or nervous feelings?[08:55] Portia Pendleton: Yeah, I mean, I was very uncomfortable with her immediately making room for her at the spa.[09:01] Dr. Katrina Furey: Me, too.[09:02] Portia Pendleton: Again, I mean, the show I'm like, okay, this is clearly intentional. And I think it was hard, just as a side note, to separate Tanya from Jennifer Coolidge, because I love Jennifer Coolidge so much.[09:14] Dr. Katrina Furey: I don't like that for real.[09:16] Portia Pendleton: Tanya, you do you but, yeah, Tanya definitely made me feel like icky.[09:21] Dr. Katrina Furey: Do you think that's because we're in mental health and so we're picking up on the splitting and the idealization and we know the devaluation will come, do you think the average person without that point of view would necessarily pick that up right away?[09:35] Portia Pendleton: Not in the same way. They might be turned off by her. Just from, like, entitlement.[09:40] Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah. And, like, the pushiness right.[09:42] Portia Pendleton: Versus, like, maybe the why or, like, you know, it being idealization and then waiting, like you said, for their to come devaluation, which sucks. And and Belinda was very, like, devastated at the end.[09:53] Dr. Katrina Furey: So I think, you know, they talk.[09:56] Portia Pendleton: About which we'll get into more, but borderline personality disorder. Tanya feels a little borderline to me.[10:05] Dr. Katrina Furey: Right as I was watching it, I got really nervous for Belinda because I just already was getting that borderline personality disorder flavor from Tanya. And that quick idealization is like a telltale sign. Even if you don't meet full criteria for a Bpd, which is the acronym for borderline personality disorder, often that quick idealization, I think we learned pretty early in our training, like, when you have a new patient who's just like, oh, my gosh, no psychiatrist has ever helped me in the way you're helping me. You're the better, amazing. Can I pay you more? Can I write you a good review? Blah, blah, blah. You learn to think, oh, there's something up here. Right.[10:43] Portia Pendleton: And it's hard because sometimes I think people's traits are more what do I want to say? Like, hidden, where it's like you might always see the positive side. You might be always idealized by someone for years yes. And have no idea. And all of a sudden, there's like, a switch flip, as, again, happens throughout the six episodes that we see with Belinda and Tanya. But sometimes we have no idea, and other times it's so big, it's like fast friends and people can be fast friends, but sometimes fast friends is really.[11:16] Dr. Katrina Furey: Just like some love bomb a little. Yeah, exactly.[11:19] Portia Pendleton: Personality disorder.[11:20] Dr. Katrina Furey: And you're so right. It really depends on what side of the split you're on. So, again, people with Bpd traits or borderline personality disorder, much like we see here with Tanya, really see things in a black or white way, and they feel things that way. That's sort of their thoughts. We've talked about that in prior episodes, so you're either all good or all bad. It's hard for them to sort of see you as a mix of both, and that reflects their inability to see themselves as a mix of both. So if you're on the good side of the split, like you said for years, you can be like that, and then something might happen, like a late fee or a perceived insensitivity to something they're saying. Or it could be something big, it could be something small. Then you're very quickly devalued and on the bad side of the split. And that sucks. That feels real bad. Sometimes you're on the bad side of the split right away and you know it. And that's why it's very helpful to treat patients with these traits as a team. So then all team members can kind of support each other and also see sort of the clinical pathology and a fuller view. But we see that right away with Tanya idealizing Belinda. And I was just waiting for her to meet a man and drop Belinda as quick as possible. And unfortunately, we see that happen.[12:36] Portia Pendleton: Yeah. And I think, too, I was curious.[12:39] Dr. Katrina Furey: Of who?[12:40] Portia Pendleton: Jennifer Kuf. Tanya. Tanya.[12:43] Dr. Katrina Furey: Tanya.[12:43] Portia Pendleton: Tanya would also interact with, like, of the other guests.[12:47] Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah.[12:48] Portia Pendleton: And then, you know, that's a great point. Her her lover Greg kind of came out of nowhere. You know, he wasn't like, one of the main cast members. So I think that was just, like, interesting.[12:57] Dr. Katrina Furey: But her and Wise writing right. That it wasn't like someone she met on the ship or it wasn't anyone she'd even formed a minimal connection with. It was like, accidental by chance. Really quick, hot and heavy. That's how it goes.[13:10] Portia Pendleton: Very intense. So intense emotions are, again, pretty common with a lot of personality disorders, but specifically with Bpd. And also just thinking about what we learn from Tanya's past, she alludes to her mother having Bpd. Yes, there are some genetic markers of Bpd, but also it's just really hard. Again, with attachment. Yes, there's a lot of attachment trauma in patients who have borderline personality disorder.[13:35] Dr. Katrina Furey: Right. And so right. So if Tanya, when they're on the little boat, she's supposed to spread the ashes and they're with Shane and Rachel. I love that so much. And she's, like, kind of given a eulogy of sorts and talking about her deceased mom, I was like, all of this tracks again, a plus. Writing like this track, this sort of upbringing would potentially lead to someone displaying behaviors and traits that Tanya is. So her mom, who was obsessed with men, and it sounds like, would often prioritize her romantic relationships over her relationship with Tanya. And then we see that play out when she meets Gr…

Full show notes at the publisher

"American Pie" Jul 03, 2023

Show notes

Welcome back to Analyze Scripts, where a psychiatrist and a therapist analyze what Hollywood gets right and wrong about mental health. Today, we are discussing the 1999 cult classic "America Pie." Woof, watching this movie was super cringey. It is rated R for a reason, there is a lot of sexual content and while we use pretty professional language to discuss it, make sure to listen away from little one's ears. We reminisce on the actors, clothing and music, while the movie draws some laughs there are also some serious topics discussed such as consent, rights to privacy and dare we say "female empowerment," (I know, just listen to the episode for the context). We hope you enjoy!InstagramTik TokWebiste[00:10] Dr. Katrina Furey: Hi, I'm Dr. Katrina Fury, a psychiatrist.[00:12] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And I'm Portia Pendleton, a licensed clinical social worker.[00:16] Dr. Katrina Furey: And this is Analyze Scripts, a podcast where two shrinks analyze the depiction of mental health in movies and TV shows.[00:23] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Our hope is that you learn some legit info about mental health while feeling like you're chatting with your girlfriends.[00:28] Dr. Katrina Furey: There is so much misinformation out there, and it drives us nuts.[00:31] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And if someday we pay off our student loans or land a sponsorship, like.[00:36] Dr. Katrina Furey: With a lay flat airline or a major beauty brand, even better.[00:39] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: So sit back, relax, grab some popcorn.[00:42] Dr. Katrina Furey: And your DSM Five and enjoy.[00:57] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Welcome back to another episode of Analyze Scripts. We are so excited to talk about little little interesting movie, some some deeply problematic themes. But American pie.[01:09] Dr. Katrina Furey: American Pie. Do you guys remember that movie? When did that even come?[01:13] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: 99.[01:14] Dr. Katrina Furey: I was definitely in, like was I in middle school? High school.[01:18] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: So I was in late elementary school. And I have a little story for you.[01:25] Dr. Katrina Furey: Okay.[01:25] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: So if you are listening to this later or listening to it right when it comes out, the idea is that it's summer. We're releasing this in July. This is also a part of our Jennifer Jennifer Coolidge. So if you like Jennifer Coolidge, be sure to catch more episodes that should be near to the release of this one. But so american Pirates, released in 1999. I was definitely in elementary school, but older, and I was not allowed to see the movie. I was going to say, obviously rated R for sure. Lots of sexual content. So I went to a friend's house after school, and they had a nanny and who was like, an older woman. It wasn't, like, a teen. And she was going to take us, three of us, to American Pie in theaters. And I remember calling my mom, like, I didn't know what it was. And I called her, and I was like, yeah, we're going to go to the movies. We're going to see American Pie. My mom was like, what? No, you're not. No, you're not. And I was so mad because she came and picked me up. And everyone else got to see it.[02:28] Dr. Katrina Furey: They're watching it.[02:29] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I don't know. I don't think so.[02:32] Dr. Katrina Furey: Okay, we'll give them the benefit, maybe.[02:34] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I don't know.[02:35] Dr. Katrina Furey: Okay.[02:36] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And I remember being so mad, like, furious that I didn't get to see American Pie and now watching it back as an adult. So I haven't seen this movie fully in years.[02:46] Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah, maybe decades, honestly. Right. This movie is can you imagine if you saw it as like, a fourth.[02:52] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Grader or fifth grader for the most part? I think 90% of it would have gone over my head. But some of the scenes where Jason Biggs, aka jim, is humping the apple pie and you see his buttocks. And then the other scene where you do with Nadia full *******.[03:14] Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah.[03:15] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And and you know hands going under clothes.[03:18] Dr. Katrina Furey: Like, it's you know that masturbation scenes.[03:21] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yeah.[03:22] Dr. Katrina Furey: You know, that you'd see.[03:23] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yeah. And I'm just curious, like, at what age do you even know what that is? Because, like, little kids, you're exploring your body, stuff like that. But if I was, like, four watching the movie oh, my God.[03:35] Dr. Katrina Furey: Hopefully PSA. Don't let a four year old watch this.[03:39] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: But it's like, when is the line where it's, like, you start to get actually what's going on and how inappropriate it is?[03:45] Dr. Katrina Furey: Probably, like, middle school, like 7th grade, 8th grade. But, like, in in these in this day and age with, like, technology and stuff, I feel like kids are exposed to sexual content so much earlier. It's, like, the thing that keeps me up at night. I think there was a study that came out, or maybe not a study, but, like, an article that said a lot of children these days are exposed to ****, I think as early as, like, fourth grade.[04:11] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Oh, yeah.[04:12] Dr. Katrina Furey: Which is really scary. And I might not be quoting that accurately, but it was, like, four years earlier than I would have naturally anticipated. And that's so scary. Like, you're saying, how do you wrap your head around that and make sense of is that quote unquote, like, normal sexual interactions or ways of showing intimacy when so much of it, even in this movie, crosses the line, and oftentimes at the expense of women.[04:41] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Oh, yeah. I mean, just thinking of the one thing, which I will you know, we'll start with the positive okay. That I was like, wow, watching the movie is that every teen, even though they're playing their 20s, filming looks like a teen. They have textured skin, there's bumps. You can tell there's makeup over some acne. They're shiny faces. Their teeth have they're not chiclet, perfect veneers. They're real teeth that are not I think they're probably, like, whitened, but they're very normal, appropriate teeth. Bodies still feel like 90 big ***** guinea waist. But still, even with that being said, I feel like a little bit more normal than what you might see today.[05:28] Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah, for sure.[05:30] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: That was like a breath of fresh air and then just reminded me of all the content that we see now. Even, again, like, an appropriate show for kids that's not animated. It's like, the people are so airbrushed and have veneers oftentimes, and it's just so unrealistic. And that's what's everywhere. Even if it's a good kid show that is positive, that is message. Right.[05:54] Dr. Katrina Furey: I remember Miley Cyrus, I think, has talked about her time on Hannah Montana, and I think she I forget, like, the word they use, but I think it's called, like, flippers or flappers. Like the type of fake teeth that they make these kids wear. And again, just how curated and perfected these people are on TV. And also, it just creeps me out to think about what old white man executive is deciding what these young children should look like or what these early 20s actors portraying teenagers should look like. I can't think about it too deeply.[06:36] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yeah. And I mean, really recently, all the stuff that has come out about Dan Shriiber from Nickelodeon and all of his.[06:42] Dr. Katrina Furey: I haven't heard about that.[06:44] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: That people cannot speak on. And then also just thinking of so the new show The Idol on HBO just came out and a lot of people are like, criticizing Sam Levinson's.[06:53] Dr. Katrina Furey: He did euphoria right.[06:55] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yeah. Which we're going to cover Gross with women and then Stan Schineider with women. With kids. Anyway.[07:02] Dr. Katrina Furey: But yeah.[07:03] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: So the movie American Pie kind of opens with a scene about masturbation. So the parents kind of walk in on Jim masturbating. And then that leads to some pretty awkward and comedic it's a comedy conversations about masturbation and sex and sex between.[07:23] Dr. Katrina Furey: Covad Jim and his dad, played by Eugene Levy, who I love. And I love his eyebrows. But oh, my gosh, all of those scenes with him giving him the nudie magazines and being like, okay, extend this center fold. And this is a ******. And just like really going to town. You could feel the cringe. It was perfect.[07:47] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yeah.[07:47] Dr. Katrina Furey: Really good. It's so funny. And I'm sure every parent and child feels cringey when you're having those discussions. At least they were having them, though, right? Like so many people go through life having no discussions. And that's got to be confusing.[08:03] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yeah. Or you're getting only your information online.[08:06] Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah. Like from **** or from some other source that isn't reliable, I guess, is the word.[08:13] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yeah, like real. That's true. So basically, Jim and his friends so Jim, Oz, and the other, the third male, decide to all lose their virginities prior to going to prom. Right?[08:30] Dr. Katrina Furey: Well, I think they wanted to lose it before going to college. And then maybe they all decided, like, promise something like that.[08:37] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: One of the lines during the scene was so gross, I have to pull it up. So get it right. It was let me see. We're going to fight for every man who deserves to get laid and doesn't.[08:52] Dr. Katrina Furey: Oh, wow, what a cause to take up arms.[08:55] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: So basically, men deserve to be laid whenever they would like to be, despite consent of the other person, however horrible. Icky line. Then one of them says it needs to be valid, consensual sex. Good. So it cannot be from an escort or prostitute, and it cannot obviously be.[09:17] Dr. Katrina Furey: An assault non consensual.[09:19] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: But I liked that even in 1999, they did say that very specifically.[09:25] Dr. Katrina Furey: I think that's pretty big.[09:26] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: There was some manipulation we see throughout the show of trying to get laid or have sex. So anyway, one of the many and.[09:36] Dr. Katrina Furey: I feel like gross. Yeah. I feel like teenage boys trying to get laid by prom seems like a pretty stereotypical storyline, right? This isn't the first movie to have this goodness, groundbreaking plot, but for some reason, this one really was successful and jumped out. And it was, even all these years later, still pretty funny. It was a pretty entertaining movie to watch, even decades later. So I wonder what contributed to the success.[10:07] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And I looked up a lot of the cast just to get their names, and many of them have not done really anything else that I think that they would like. Stiffler hasn't jason really biggs. Really only did his cameo kind of in Orange is the New Black. He hasn't really done much that's they.[10:26] Dr. Katrina Furey: Have a lot of sequels, too.[10:27] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Oh, yes. And that's what is giving them the paycheck still. And then, obviously, Eugene Levy has been in so many things. Schitt's Creek. Love it. And then his newer show, which is.[10:39] Dr. Katrina Furey: I watch oh, yeah, the traveling one, right?[10:41] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: He's like the anxious traveler.[10:43] Dr. Katrina Furey: Is he really nervous?[10:44] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Oh, yeah. It's such a good show. You could watch it with your family. It's beautiful places that he's exploring. So, anyway and then some of the other people.[10:55] Dr. Katrina Furey: But Jennifer coolidge, man.[10:56] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: It was a lot.[10:57] Dr. Katrina Furey: I mean, I feel like there was a gap. And she's had a real renaissance.[11:01] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Natasha Leone was in it.[11:03] Dr. Katrina Furey: I forgot that she was in it. Like, Tara Reid obviously was in it, but so a lot of them haven't really been in big blockbusters since then. I mean, Tara Reid was in Sharknado, like, one through 100, probably. Yeah, it seems like they've all had careers, but maybe nothing has really escalated except maybe Jennifer Coolidge. She's really having a heyday right now.[11:25] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: John Cho isn't a lot.[11:27] Dr. Katrina Furey: He plays John in the movie.[11:28] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: He is in Harold and Kumar. A lot of them were just also, like, actors of the time. Teen stoner or sex movies. But anyway. So did you have any moments in the movie where you were just like, I literally want to cringe and throw up? Besides the whole movie that was really disgusting.[11:55] Dr. Katrina Furey: The one where the girl was being filmed without her knowledge.[11:58] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: That's disgusting in a different sense.[12:00] Dr. Katrina Furey: Okay, what are you thinking?[12:02] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: The one scene that I just had to look away was when.[12:08] Dr. Katrina Furey: The other.[12:09] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Guy that I can't think of, his name is with his girlfriend.[12:12] Dr. Katrina Furey: Do I look up the name on.[12:13] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: The bed and she is giving him oral sex, and he ********** into the beer cup.[12:20] Dr. Katrina Furey: And then Stifler drinkler comes up with.[12:22] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: The girl to try to have sex. And then she keeps almost drinking it.[12:28] Dr. Katrina Furey: And then he finally does and he knows frothy.[12:34] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I can feel my stomach just churn.[12:37] Dr. Katrina Furey: That was disgusting.[12:38] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Repulsive.[12:39] Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah, shocking.[12:40] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I mean, again, like, picture an eight year old watching this, which is why.[12:43] Dr. Katrina Furey: Oh, my God, please shouldn't yeah, exactly. Even like a mid 30s year old, it's, like, really gross. And you kept being like, no, don't drink it. Yeah, that was disgusting and cringe. Like, in a legit. Disgusting. Like, gross. Like potty humor. But then there were definitely parts of this movie that just I don't think would fly today. Like that scene with Nadia. Well, first of all, so she's coming over to Jim's house to study.[13:15] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Right?[13:15] Dr. Katrina Furey: Like, she wants to study. This is, like, the exchange student.[13:18] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yeah. I think she says interior motive.[13:21] Dr. Katrina Furey: Oh, she does?[13:21] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Oh, I thought she really wanted Jim.[13:27] Dr. Katrina Furey: That's where I got really confused. I was like, Why did oh, no. Because she had ballet and then wanted to change undressed. Right. I was really confused.[13:36] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And then they studied, which I think Jim would have loved, too. He was at their house. Maybe he sits near her. He seems really nervous and shy.[13:45] Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah. And then she masturbates, and then somehow it's broadcasted on a webcam.[13:52] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yeah. So Jim had the idea, which, again, this is illegal, in case anyone didn't know, to film him and Nadia potentially honestly doing anything.[14:01] Dr. Katrina Furey: Righ…

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"Yellowjackets" Season 2 with Dr. Jessi Gold Jun 26, 2023

Show notes

Welcome back to Analyze Scripts, where a psychiatrist and a therapist analyze what Hollywood gets right and wrong about mental health. Today, we are joined by Dr. Jessi Gold to analyze season two of "Yellowjackets." In this episode we discuss cults, schizophrenia, catatonia and the ghastly depiction of ECT. We see many different depictions of trauma responses in this season, some from psychological stressors and others from their worsening physical state. Were you as shocked as we were to learn the mouse is actually dead? Was that a hallucination due to starvation or psychological trauma, the answer is probably both. "Yellowjackets" keeps us guessing and cringing through all nine episodes this season, but we are ready for a break and hope the actors are practicing some self care! We hope you enjoy!InstagramTik TokWebsite[00:10] Dr. Katrina Furey: Hi, I'm Dr. Katrina Fury, a psychiatrist.[00:12] Portia Pendleton: And I'm Portia Pendleton, a licensed clinical social worker.[00:16] Dr. Katrina Furey: And this is Analyze Scripts, a podcast where two shrinks analyze the depiction of mental health in movies and TV shows.[00:23] Portia Pendleton: Our hope is that you learn some legit info about mental health while feeling like you're chatting with your girlfriends.[00:28] Dr. Katrina Furey: There is so much misinformation out there, and it drives us nuts.[00:31] Portia Pendleton: And if someday we pay off our student loans or land a sponsorship, like.[00:36] Dr. Katrina Furey: With a lay flat airline or a major beauty brand, even better.[00:39] Portia Pendleton: So sit back, relax, grab some popcorn.[00:42] Dr. Katrina Furey: And your DSM Five and enjoy. Back to another episode of Analyze scripts. We are so excited to once again be joined by Dr. Jesse Gold today to talk about the second season of Showtime's hit show Yellow Jackets. Thanks so much for coming back, Jesse.[01:12] Dr. Jessi Gold: Thanks for having me.[01:13] Dr. Katrina Furey: I do have to say, this show is really messed up. I feel like season one was a lot, and then we sort of watched it really quick to record our first episode and then watch season two really quick. And I was like, I had to take some breaks, I'll be honest, along the way, because it got really intense really fast.[01:34] Portia Pendleton: Yeah.[01:38] Dr. Katrina Furey: Maybe like a two out of ten on a scale of one to ten. So not like fully this season.[01:43] Dr. Jessi Gold: I think it was like last season, they were like, this is a show about cannibals, but you never saw it.[01:50] Dr. Katrina Furey: Right?[01:50] Dr. Jessi Gold: This season was like, remember when you're walking?[01:54] Dr. Katrina Furey: Here it is. Yeah, here it is.[01:58] Dr. Jessi Gold: They danced around it in a way that was like, fine last season. And this season they were like, all.[02:04] Dr. Katrina Furey: Right, here you go.[02:06] Dr. Jessi Gold: And there are definitely parts where you're like, yeah, I can't watch it.[02:10] Dr. Katrina Furey: Yes, I know. I told Portia when we were watching it, I stopped right around when Shauna was about to deliver the baby because I was so scared they were going to eat the baby. I was like, I can't watch that. And I think you actually had to tell me. They don't I looked up the spoiler.[02:28] Portia Pendleton: Yeah, they post on their TikTok, right? Like, the cast being like, we do not eat the baby. You can watch it, I guess, trigger non warning. And I was like, we do a.[02:38] Dr. Katrina Furey: Lot of things, but that's where we draw the line. Gosh. So, I mean, I think we have to get started since this was really early in the first episode, ECT and the depiction of ECT. Right. Like, you probably felt as good about that as I did, which is not very good.[02:57] Dr. Jessi Gold: It is the first time I was disappointed.[03:00] Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah, right.[03:02] Dr. Jessi Gold: Last season, I was really excited about all of their mental health portrayals, and I thought they were really thoughtful, and their trauma portrayals were really thoughtful. So I was super excited for this season, despite yes, I'm not, like, a creepy show person, so it's not like surprising that that wouldn't be my genre of choice, but I really liked it for a lot of the reasons I was talking about health wise. And so watching that and seeing that so early on, I was like, oh no, taking such a wrong, unnecessary turn. And yeah, I think inherently if you came back from something catatonic possible, you got ECT, right?[03:43] Dr. Katrina Furey: Right.[03:44] Dr. Jessi Gold: The actual treatment of choice for being like catatonic, I think who has schizophrenia or some version of a psychotic right, comes back catatonic. It seems we have like a tiny, tiny, tiny glimpse in that.[03:57] Dr. Katrina Furey: I was going to ask you. I thought it was catatonia as well. Porsche, are you familiar with catatonia as much? How would you describe catatonia, Jesse, to someone who doesn't know what that word means, they're different forms.[04:09] Dr. Jessi Gold: Some people have hyperactive, completely not moving.[04:14] Dr. Katrina Furey: Speaking kind of like Lottie, like Lottie.[04:17] Dr. Jessi Gold: Looks like she had it can be a reaction to a lot of things, like medication, like psychosis, like some medical issues inside, internally, like a medical issue. I haven't seen it a ton of times, but I have seen it sometimes it amazingly responds to just like an act.[04:36] Dr. Katrina Furey: Have you ever seen that? Because that is amazing. So portia. Sometimes when you're catatonic, these people are usually brought to the Er and people are either like they're not moving or eating or they're going to the bathroom on themselves. They literally can't move from here to five inches away, or they're like they're being really bizarre and bouncing off the walls and making weird noises and just such a drastic change in behavior really acutely quickly, like for an unknown reason. And then eventually catatonia gets on the differential and you think, let's give them a little Addivan. And so you'll give them like a push of ivy. Addivan, wait a couple only like 2 hours and a lot of times they start to wake up. Then you give them another one if it's working. And that's one of the coolest things in psychiatry is you can see it work so fast. I feel like in mental health that's so rare. Maybe like Add and Stimulants, you see work really quick. But this is so drastic. Like, I remember one woman in the ICU, wasn't eating for days, couldn't move, had something called waxy flexibility where if you put their arm up, it stays. They never bring it down. Or you can position them in an odd position, they stay there. That's part of catatonia. That's one of the telltale diagnostic signs. We give her the Adavan, a couple of hours later she's eating. It's wild. Anyway, so I do think lottie was catatonic. I think that's what they were going for. And even if they weren't, they did.[06:02] Dr. Jessi Gold: A good job in an offshoot. But I do think that as far as things you see in psychiatry, it's interesting, but I have heard from the perspective of a patient who was catatonic, that they understood everything that was going on but couldn't speak or function. And wow, sometimes when people were learning from them because they had certain symptoms, like there's this thing called echolalia where they eat everything that you're saying that they knew. They saw that and didn't like that but couldn't say anything. So after that, I've been hesitant sometimes to actually teach some of it, even though it's rare and interesting. And again, one of the few things you see really get better, which is really nice. But I would assume, who knows how long she wasn't speaking and functioning in the wilderness.[06:56] Dr. Katrina Furey: I know now she's trapped like that. Can you imagine?[06:59] Dr. Jessi Gold: And I would assume her parents were already thought she was dead, but on top of it, we're like, oh, gosh, she's been off meds for like two years. No, I think ECP is a treatment of choice for catatonia. ECT is a very successful medication or.[07:18] Dr. Katrina Furey: Like, treatment super successful, which is unfortunate.[07:21] Dr. Jessi Gold: Psychiatry because everyone flew over the cuz nest, really. And I think that book and that movie and that portrayal have really continued so much that even, like, generationally people who have absolutely never read the book.[07:38] Dr. Katrina Furey: Or true know about it.[07:41] Portia Pendleton: Yeah.[07:41] Dr. Jessi Gold: In that movie, I don't know if parents told them or what, because, you know, they didn't see some old school Jack Nickson movie.[07:48] Dr. Katrina Furey: Right.[07:49] Dr. Jessi Gold: There's something where you mentioned ECT to people and their faces so concerned and they think it's the worst thing you can possibly tell them, but it's by far one of our most successful treatments, especially in situations like this. But in acute suspitality in pregnancy.[08:06] Dr. Katrina Furey: Right.[08:06] Dr. Jessi Gold: Postpartum psychosis wouldn't imagine it's as good as it is. And that stigma that exists for a very long time, very much created by the media, to be honest, really has made it hard for us to sell it as a treatment, despite how successful it is. And so for this show, which is new, to bring it back into the fold. And bring it back into the fold. So almost like quickly flashes, but the flashes you get look really and it's not the ECP. Even in the what would that have been like the 90s, right?[08:43] Dr. Katrina Furey: Exactly. It wouldn't have been like that.[08:47] Dr. Jessi Gold: Some of the things from what blew over the cuckoo sense is like, the technology was older, anesthesia wasn't as good. There's things where you can tell that things have evolved for sure since then. But even in the 90s, it didn't look like what they're showing. What they're showing looks like probably the equivalent of the fact that they still go clear with paddles in medical shows. Like these little pads that are stick.[09:12] Dr. Katrina Furey: On and so dramatic and heavy going to hurt you.[09:17] Dr. Jessi Gold: I know that Er doctors think that's ridiculous because they have most of them never even saw it ever done like that. I feel like what they show for ECT is like that version the OG when ECT was discovered version.[09:34] Dr. Katrina Furey: Also when they say seize, that's not what actually happens.[09:40] Dr. Jessi Gold: The purpose is to induce a seizure in your brain. But it's like so minor and the only way you really even know there's.[09:48] Dr. Katrina Furey: A seizure is like your toe brain.[09:50] Dr. Jessi Gold: Activity or your tone. You would never see someone actually seize. If you did.[09:56] Dr. Katrina Furey: We probably messed up, right.[09:59] Dr. Jessi Gold: Only they test where to go based on just if your finger moves when they get there, they know where different parts of your brain are and they're.[10:07] Dr. Katrina Furey: Targeting a specific part. Right. You're never like lashing or thrashing around, rolling over like Lottie did. And it's also very rare these days to do bilateral ECT on both sides of the head. Usually you start with unilateral and it's been so long since I did or saw ECT, I can't even remember which side you usually start with. But that's also not super common to do bilateral. Sometimes you have to right.[10:34] Dr. Jessi Gold: Then when one's not working as well, you add the other or you try the other and then you do bilateral.[10:39] Dr. Katrina Furey: Right. Oh, really? Like Barbaric bike guard, right?[10:43] Dr. Jessi Gold: Like a bike guard. She has an aggressive actual seizure. As a viewer, you actually don't know what is going on because they don't say the name. They don't going on anyway. So all you see is like this barbaric looking psychiatric treatment. And don't get me wrong, we have screwed up over and over. We were doing treatment wise. But again, so did a lot of medicine that felt like bloodletting was a way to free spirits of stuff. Right. So we're not the only specialty who tried very dangerous things on people.[11:14] Dr. Katrina Furey: Right.[11:15] Dr. Jessi Gold: We have a reputation for that and I think that has continued. NPT has basically been this, I don't know, representation of that in modern psychiatry.[11:26] Dr. Katrina Furey: Right.[11:26] Dr. Jessi Gold: Though it is so effective and I don't know, I wish there was more context to that. Even though I know it was sort of like intentionally vague. But I wish there was more context to it. I wish it was more thoughtful.[11:39] Dr. Katrina Furey: I wish it was more updated and more accurate.[11:42] Dr. Jessi Gold: It was more accurate. And with Lottie they have a lot of potential to talk about humane treatment.[11:50] Dr. Katrina Furey: I know. And we see such bad mental health treatment with Lottie this whole season and that's like the only mental health treatment we see.[12:00] Dr. Jessi Gold: Yeah, I mean, I think I worry not to get too far ahead that next season too, that she's going to.[12:07] Dr. Katrina Furey: Be inpatient, it's going to be awful. Let's show some good treatment that's struggling.[12:12] Dr. Jessi Gold: Like this, you can go back to.[12:14] Dr. Katrina Furey: Functioning and doing your work and your.[12:16] Dr. Jessi Gold: Life, but this is maybe what you need. Sometimes this is impatient can look like and they have the opportunity to demystify destigmatize.[12:26] Dr. Katrina Furey: It's just so far from what I saw in my training in what actual ECT is, which can be so quite literally life saving for so many patients. And it's just such a shame to have such yet another negative depiction of such a life saving treatment and of schizophrenia.[12:47] Portia Pendleton: I mean, she's going to go inpatient one of the most interesting things in my graduate program was we had this I don't know, because you guys both interfaced with Yale. She was a lawyer, like down in New Haven, and she's an author and she has schizophrenia.[13:02] Dr. Jessi Gold: It's called the center cannot hold with Elon Sack.[13:05] Dr. Katrina Furey: Yes.[13:05] Portia Pendleton: So she does a lot of talks about her experience with hallucinating, being on medication, not being on medication, how powerful medication is, and how you can really lead a wildly productive I mean, she went to law school. She's a very well known fighter and person lawyer. And that was just, I think, really helping too. I mean, the whole point is to destigmatize schizophrenia. So then we see Lottie here not doing a good job of that. And then we were just talking about future season predictions with maybe her being on inpatient unit and probably not looking so good.[13:43] Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah. I do think as much as I was disappointed with the depiction of ECT, I do think this season had some good moments that I thought very, I guess, helpfully displayed the difference between hallucinations dissociation and like a dissociative fugue state. Right. I feel like those things are challenging to wrap your head around, challenging to educate people about, and then I would imagine even more challenging depicting in an accurate way. So when we say hallucination, what we mean by that is when someone is seeing, hearing, feeling, tasting, or smelling something that isn't actually there in reality, so what other people around them aren't experien…

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