Analyze Scripts

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Episode 44 - "The Bear" Season 2 Nov 06, 2023

Show notes

Welcome back to Analyze Scripts, where a psychiatrist and a therapist analyze what Hollywood gets right and wrong about mental health. Today, we are covering "The Bear" season 2. This season was a standout with food, relationships and understanding the character's histories. We could not have asked for more amazing mental health content to discuss. Richie wins Dr. Furey over (he is a swiftie?) and Jamie Lee Curtis playing their mother, Donna was an unexpected gift. We see depictions of borderline personality disorder, addiction and what can happen when complex families get together over the holidays. We also give you some tips on how to manage stressors that can arise when family gathers. Over all we give this season a "chef's kiss," we hope you enjoy! InstagramTikTokWebisteDr. Katrina Furey MD: Hi, I'm Dr. Katrina Fieri, a psychiatrist.Portia Pendleton LCSW: And I'm Portia Pendleton, a licensed clinical social worker.Dr. Katrina Furey MD: And this is Analyze Scripts, a podcast where two shrinks analyze the depiction of mental health in movies and TV shows.Portia Pendleton LCSW: Our hope is that you learn some legit info about mental health while feeling like you're chatting with your girlfriends.Dr. Katrina Furey MD: There is so much misinformation out there, and it drives us nuts.Portia Pendleton LCSW: And if someday we pay off our student loans or land a sponsorship, like.Dr. Katrina Furey MD: With a lay flat airline or a major beauty brand, even better.Portia Pendleton LCSW: So sit back, relax, grab some popcorn.Dr. Katrina Furey MD: And your DSM Five and enjoy.Portia Pendleton LCSW: Welcome back. We're so excited to be talking about one of our, like, surprising I don't think anyone else was surprised, but we both found the Bear this year and watched both season one and now two. So if you haven't listened to our episode on the Bear season one, go check it out. It is uploaded to everywhere. You can find all of our other podcasts. But today we are so thrilled to be talking about the Bear season two and all of its intensity and intense emotions. Wow.Dr. Katrina Furey MD: I feel nervous, like, even getting started.Portia Pendleton LCSW: Yeah, there's a lot to cover.Dr. Katrina Furey MD: Oh, my gosh. I also just want to say, is this the best show ever? I feel like yes.Portia Pendleton LCSW: I like how the episodes are not all, like, hours. One of them was this season, which it was worth it.Dr. Katrina Furey MD: Oh, my God.Portia Pendleton LCSW: But I just love the shorter episodes. I love all of the dynamic characters. I like the scenes, the sets. I like food. Yes.Dr. Katrina Furey MD: I want to be a chef. I realize it's, like, such a beautiful combination of art and science. Right. Like, the way they're cooking, and it's so creative. It's so beautiful the way everything's shot. The character development, especially this season, was astounding. It's so smartly written, and I just found myself at the end of it being, like, so sad. It was over and wanting more, and I was like, is this the best.Portia Pendleton LCSW: Show of all time? Maybe. I think so. I also just love a good family s show, like, on TV.Dr. Katrina Furey MD: I love succession.Portia Pendleton LCSW: Well, not really you, but he doesn't really have any family. I guess that's the point. No.Dr. Katrina Furey MD: Yeah. So are you saying you really like the interpersonal dynamics?Portia Pendleton LCSW: Yes. Right.Dr. Katrina Furey MD: And obviously we would like that. Right? It's two shrinks. Obviously. That's what we're into. But I feel like this is the reason we wanted to start this podcast, is to just shine light when people get it so right.Portia Pendleton LCSW: Yes.Dr. Katrina Furey MD: It's done so well. And I'm just like, how on earth are they tackling such intense topics and dynamics? Like, oh, my God, we'll get into the feast of the seven fishes. But, like, that family dynamic. Grief, suicide, addiction, depression, stress, like, guilt, grief, and then also in this season, resilience and growth.Portia Pendleton LCSW: So much growth.Dr. Katrina Furey MD: Like, achieving your dreams and fulfilling your potential that you didn't even know was there. And how being in the right environment with the right leader can really pull that out of people. And how Carmee was so good at that, despite going through so much struggle himself.Portia Pendleton LCSW: Whoa.Dr. Katrina Furey MD: How did they get it was so good.Portia Pendleton LCSW: Yes.Dr. Katrina Furey MD: So good. So I think we're going to get started by talking about some of the supporting characters before we really get into the meat with the Feast of the Seven Fishes and some of the more main characters. But I fell in love with Tina this season. What did you think about Tina and her arc?Portia Pendleton LCSW: I loved how her depiction in season one was just like things hadn't changed. Right. They're all kind of set in their ways. That's how we do things. Like pretty resistant to change.Dr. Katrina Furey MD: Yes, very resistant.Portia Pendleton LCSW: Which is something, again, I think everyone can relate to. When you're working at a job and initially something comes down the pipe and you're like, oh, I don't know how we could do this. No one wants it, really. Everyone's pushing back. Everyone gets grouchy.Dr. Katrina Furey MD: Especially when it's like a younger, new hot show and you have all this experience and you're like, you don't know what you're talking about.Portia Pendleton LCSW: Right. Yeah. So she was pushing back. We didn't really get a lot of her backstory.Dr. Katrina Furey MD: We didn't really get anyone's except for Carmen.Portia Pendleton LCSW: Her singing, it was like she goes and does karaoke. Beautiful voice. Stunning voice. Yeah. So then she goes to school. Yes. It's supposed to be her and Ibrahim. And she seems to really flourish and enjoy and kind of soak up all the information. And then her and Sydney have some beautiful moments when Know asks her several times to step up. And Tina seems really moved by that and appreciated. And she totally rises to the challenge and kicks butt. And in the later episodes, she's just rocking the kitchen.Dr. Katrina Furey MD: She totally rose to the occasion. I feel like her versus Ibrahim was such an interesting depiction. Like, they were both sort know, the old guard, you could say, and both kind of resistant to the change that was coming with Carmee and Sydney. But then you see Carmee's, like, investing in his staff by sending them to school, sending Marcus to Denmark. And she was so thrilled and she really lit up. She hugged him. Ibrahim, on the other hand, was really not into it. He was scared. He didn't go. But then he showed up at the end and I loved that they all welcomed him back with open and there.Portia Pendleton LCSW: Was still a place.Dr. Katrina Furey MD: There's still a place for him. How beautiful is you can always come home.Portia Pendleton LCSW: I liked when he was doing the Serve Safe thing online. I remember doing that. It's like, so boring. And I mean, it's good, notable information.Dr. Katrina Furey MD: But it's just like, come on. Yeah, it's one of those certificates.Portia Pendleton LCSW: It's just so funny. They're like, oh, it's served like, we might not be able to open.Dr. Katrina Furey MD: It was just so funny. But I just loved how Carme gave Tina his knife and then she tried to give it back to him and he's like, I didn't ask for it back. Just all of that just investment in your staff was so beautiful. He didn't just fire everyone and bring in people who are already trained. He believed in them. Right. And then I thought the scenes with her and Sydney were really beautiful. Especially as we got to understand Sydney's background more with her mom right. And how her mom died when she was four. And I was just like, oh, look at yeah.Portia Pendleton LCSW: Like, I wonder what it was like for Sydney to initially be butting heads with Tina in season one and just kind of Sydney being brought on. And Sydney is very educated right. In Chef culture in Chef land. And Tina, I think is a wonderful chef, but just has been doing right the same thing. They've been making these more like sandwich shop type stuff. Sydney was more like of, I guess, an elevated places or had her own. And I think it was hard to watch like in season one, tina, I felt empathy for her being kind of challenged and struggling to kind of get on the ship and having a young woman kind of telling you that your mashed potatoes aren't good and to do it again. And you see that then in season two, Tina kind of checking, right? Like, do you want me to do it again? And then I think it's the second to last episode. Carmen's like no, it's perfect. Yeah. And that all is so meaningful to her. The knife is meaningful. That feedback is meaningful.Dr. Katrina Furey MD: And it all started in season one. Remember when Tina was like falling behind and Sydney picked up the slack and then didn't rub it in her know.Portia Pendleton LCSW: She could trust her.Dr. Katrina Furey MD: Right. It was just really beautiful and just so beautifully written. And to see their dynamic unfold, I thought was really beautiful. And I just am curious about that dynamic. Since Tina is older, maybe unconsciously, some kind of mother figure to her. But then Sydney has more of the authority in that workplace relationship. I just thought it was interesting.Portia Pendleton LCSW: Yeah. What did you think of like, reaction? What do you think that was coming.Dr. Katrina Furey MD: Feel like I think he was scared. That's the only thing I can think of. He was saying he didn't want to wear a uniform. I also wonder about his background. Does he come from somewhere where uniforms signify something that's.Portia Pendleton LCSW: I think there was a really fast reference in season one to Carmi about him from someone else that he was in the military.Dr. Katrina Furey MD: That's what I was wondering.Portia Pendleton LCSW: A different country. And he had come mean we could only guess then from that what that means or how he is doing from that experience, but maybe yeah, uniform thing for sure.Dr. Katrina Furey MD: The uniform thing was, like, the real sticking point.Portia Pendleton LCSW: Yeah.Dr. Katrina Furey MD: I think he totally had a different reaction than Tina. Like, I don't want to go. Why do I have to do this? And it wasn't like, I'm too old.Portia Pendleton LCSW: To learn new things.Dr. Katrina Furey MD: And he doesn't look too old to learn new things, by the way. You're never too old to learn new things. But it was something about the uniform and conforming. I'm not sure it'd be really interesting to get more of that. But then we don't see him for a while, and then all of a sudden he shows back up and he's, like, excited to work, takeout window. And again, we already said it, but I just love that there was still a spot for him.Portia Pendleton LCSW: Yeah. And I liked how Tina and him had that conversation in the window right, where they were, like, talking about everyone in the third. That was that was sweet. And it was Tina really knowing, I think, how to approach him, knowing that she can't just say things directly, knowing that he needed the space to kind of not be able to talk about himself directly, and then he would come back. That was really just, like, good people.Dr. Katrina Furey MD: Right, right. And so, again, we're just seeing, like, really rise to the occasion. We also see Marcus rise to the occasion, which I never doubted he would. He was always so into the desserts, and I was like, even in season one, I was like, I had no idea so much went into making food and desserts. And it's like chemistry, really. But season two starts off with him at I believe it's his mother's bedside. Right?Portia Pendleton LCSW: Yeah.Dr. Katrina Furey MD: So she's ill. I don't think we really understand or.Portia Pendleton LCSW: Learn what exactly seems serious.Dr. Katrina Furey MD: It seems serious. It seems chronic, like it's been going on for a long time, but, like, one of those situations where it's always tenuous. Like it's been going on for a long time, but it could nosedive at any time. So it sounds like she has, like, this round the clock care.Portia Pendleton LCSW: Right.Dr. Katrina Furey MD: What did you think about kind of seeing him with his mom, seeing the dynamic between him and Sydney develop in the context of the stuff with Sydney and her mom? There's a lot of moms in season two. A lot of mom stuff.Portia Pendleton LCSW: A lot. I think that Marcus, in a really nice way, has the capacity to be really empathetic and sweet with Sydney if they get there about her mom and then his mom. I think they just both have grief and loss in different ways about the mother figure in their life at different times, of course, and in different ways. But I think that that's really something to connect on if they again go there. I thought it was funny how I think it was between Carme and Sydney when she was like, yeah, my mom's dead, so we don't really have a relationship and it's hard when she's dead. Yeah. It was just such a normal thing. It's been a long time. It happened when she was four. Of course it still impacts her, but it's that using kind of comedy or to make Levity of a really tough situation, because you can see Carmen be like, kind of, I don't know how to handle this. And she's like, yeah, well, then they kind of chuckle. It's just something that I think a lot of people do.Dr. Katrina Furey MD: I think, again, like, so beautifully written because it's so normal, like, at Sydney's age or younger, for people to ask you, like, what about your parents? And they're assuming you still have them. Right. And it's really awkward to be on the receiving end when you don't have both of, like, well, how do I share this with the person without making them uncomfortable? Right.Portia Pendleton LCSW: And, like, having that uncomfortable sense. And she's like, don't say I'm sorry. We can just move on.Dr. Katrina Furey MD: Right.Portia Pendleton LCSW: So I thought it was, like, a.Dr. Katrina Furey MD: Really interesting way to bring that up.Portia Pendleton LCSW: And the acting I know we're going to say this over and over again, but I just want to point out, for Sydney, it felt so real, and obviously that's what acting should be. But she just nailed the head on making the awkwardness of, oh, someone's asking me this, and I don't know how to say yeah. It was just so yes. So good.Dr. Katrina Furey MD: So good. And when Marcus asks her out at the end, how awkward. I was so happy when he did.Portia Pendleton LCSW: I thought they were totally vibing.Dr. Katrina Furey MD: Like, when he was in Denmark, and they were FaceTiming and joking, and they kept pretending to like, I thought they were totally vibing. And then it totally threw her off. Yes.Portia Pendleton LCSW: What do you think about that? I don't know, because I would say, based on the show, that she had.Dr. Katrina Furey MD: To have been picking up on, that.Portia Pendleton LCSW: They were, like, silly at least.Dr. Katrina Furey MD: Right.Portia Pendleton LCSW: So then for her to be like, did she shut it down? Because she was just so uncomfortable, nervous. You know what I mean? Or was it did it come out of left field? And she was just like, oh, I thought we were being friends. I don't know why it t…

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Episode 43 - "Taylor Swift: The Eras Tour" Oct 30, 2023

Show notes

Welcome back to Analyze Scripts, where a psychiatrist and a therapist analyze what Hollywood gets right and wrong about mental health. In this episode, we comment on the block buster hit featuring the iconic Taylor Swift in her most recent tour. As we go through the Eras we comment on why the movie was so emotional for us and others. Seeing women, and some men, of all ages singing, smiling and dancing together was magic. Listen to us analyze some of her songs from the tour such as "Anti-Hero" and "All Too Well" (the 10 minute version) as she describes such common feelings and emotions that Swifties of all ages relate to. Her lyrics transcend generations and bring us all together at a time when we could all use a little "Peace." We hope you enjoy! InstagramWebsiteYoutubeTikTokDr. Katrina Furey MD: Hi, I'm Dr. Katrina Fieri, a psychiatrist.Portia Pendleton LCSW: And I'm Portia Pendleton, a licensed clinical social worker.Dr. Katrina Furey MD: And this is Analyze Scripts, a podcast.Dr. Katrina Furey MD: Where two shrinks analyze the depiction of.Dr. Katrina Furey MD: Mental health in movies and TV shows.Portia Pendleton LCSW: Our hope is that you learn some legit info about mental health while feeling like you're chatting with your girlfriends.Dr. Katrina Furey MD: There is so much misinformation out there, and it drives us nuts.Portia Pendleton LCSW: And if someday we pay off our student loans or land a sponsorship, like.Dr. Katrina Furey MD: With a lay flat airline or a major beauty brand, even better.Portia Pendleton LCSW: So sit back, relax, grab some popcorn.Dr. Katrina Furey MD: And your DSM Five and enjoy.Portia Pendleton LCSW: Good morning, good afternoon, good evening, wherever you are.Dr. Katrina Furey MD: Welcome.Portia Pendleton LCSW: We're so excited today. This is our first video, so hopefully it's not like a garbage can dumpster fire, but we'll see.Dr. Katrina Furey MD: Yeah, we're really excited to be I think Portia, like, our tech has come a really long way in just when did we start recording? I think. Was it January or February?Portia Pendleton LCSW: I want to say end of January.Dr. Katrina Furey MD: End of January. So, like, less than a year. And, like, look at us go.Portia Pendleton LCSW: I've got the lighting, some props. You have some props that may be giving hints today about what we're going to be talking about.Dr. Katrina Furey MD: Some paraphernalia here.Portia Pendleton LCSW: Look at that.Dr. Katrina Furey MD: Very excited. I'm going to let you intro it because I know you are such a swiftie.Portia Pendleton LCSW: Yeah. So today we're going to be talking about the era's tour movie, which we thought would be just such a cool idea. So typically. Right. We're talking about, like, fiction, movies, TV shows, stuff like that. But we had to cover the Era's tour movie about the tour. Neither of us have seen the tour yet. I think it was a lot, and neither of us had the foresight to see that. You had to log in right, like, the second and buy the tickets because you couldn't afford them if you wanted to buy them after the fact.Dr. Katrina Furey MD: Yeah. I don't think we should be super hard on ourselves because I think it was impossible for almost anyone to get a ticket.Portia Pendleton LCSW: Yeah.Dr. Katrina Furey MD: I do think this was a really nice way for everyone to get to see it who hasn't been able to go. And I kind of enjoyed it. I kind of enjoyed this way.Portia Pendleton LCSW: It was incredible.Dr. Katrina Furey MD: Yeah, I told you. I think we should just start there.Portia Pendleton LCSW: Yeah.Dr. Katrina Furey MD: I felt like I had a religious conversion, honestly. I was like, whoa.Portia Pendleton LCSW: So tell me about when you went.Dr. Katrina Furey MD: Have you seen it more than one time?Portia Pendleton LCSW: I've seen it twice. I saw it the first time with my husband. We went on a very busy weekend. It was my sister in law's wedding. I officiated the wedding. So there was, like, event dinner, breakfast, whatever. And then that night, it was like, we're going to the Arrows tour movie. I don't care how tired you are. I don't care that it's Sunday night. Like, we're going. So I saw it with him, and it was amazing. And I do have a little story to tell tickets, like, when it came out. And so it said that the Era's tour would be only showing in AMC movie theaters. Right? I remember I searched AMC in the movie theaters when I got in, right? It was like, you're in the waiting room. I was like, oh, my gosh, I'm getting tickets. This feels amazing. And so I bought them kind of far away because we have movie theaters closer to us, but they're not the AMC ones are not.Dr. Katrina Furey MD: Right?Portia Pendleton LCSW: So I bought two sets of tickets. So I had four tickets, like two different nights. And I did not go to either of those. I didn't end up selling them. I just last minute bought closer tickets. That's like a difference of like an hour, ten minutes.Dr. Katrina Furey MD: Yeah, it was a cost benefit analysis.Portia Pendleton LCSW: Yeah.Dr. Katrina Furey MD: Return the tickets. I have to say that's annoying that there were no refunds.Portia Pendleton LCSW: I know. Because I think someone else would have liked them. Like, they were early the weekend they came out. So I don't know. I just couldn't be bothered again. It was really stressful. So I've bought ticket sets to four, and I've gone to two and they've all passed. So it's not like I could do anything about that. But my husband was, like, laughing by the time because he was like, we spent really a fraction of what the.Dr. Katrina Furey MD: Real yes, that's the thing. I bought two sets, and then I did end up selling one of them. I was able to resale them for like $5 less than I bought them for. But I knew someone would be able to buy them because I went with my daughter who's about to turn five. I can't believe it, but she has become a little swifty, like, in the past six months. It started over the summer when she was at camp. I picked her up from camp and she was like, mom, do you know who Taylor Swift is? And I was, you know and then whenever we'd hear a song on the radio, she'd be like, this is Taylor Swift. And I was like, yeah, it's so cute the way she says her know, just in her little girl voice. And then one day I picked her up and a counselor, I think, had shown them some sort of video, whether it was a concert video, music video, but she was so cute. She got in the car and she was like, mom, I saw Taylor Swift today. And she was dancing, and she had microphone and she was singing. She had never crossed her mind that you could do all those things. And in my head, I was like and she plays instruments. Like, wait till you see. Um, and so then she's really gotten into Taylor Swift. And it's so funny because she only knows her new songs, like the karma one, she know. But if like, Love Story comes on the radio and I'm like, oh, this is Taylor Swift, she's like, no, it's not. What are you talking about? But anyway, so I took her and we had like a little Halloween event at their school beforehand. So she was like in her Halloween costume. It was just me and her, and it was like the time of my life. It was so great. She had so much fun. We got the popcorn and was just it was so cool because I felt like I'm there with my daughter, but then we're surrounded by all these women. It reminded me of when we went to see Barbie, how it was just experience and a very female experience. So there were other moms with their older daughters, like tween teens. Then there were like teenagers, early 20s, who were there by themselves, but as a group, all dressed up. There were all these friendship bracelets. A girl gave my daughter a friendship bracelet, which was that's so sweet, cute. And my daughter kept wanting to get up and go dance with the big girls. So then we'd go, like, in the back where all the older girls are dancing, and they all were, like, filming themselves, I guess, for their social media, but it was just so pure and adorable and sweet and it was just so fun. I had so much fun with her, and I was impressed. There were times where she was getting like she wanted to go during the slower sets, but then luckily it would pick up. It was like 1989, and then we would get back into it. But it was just so fun. It was so fun.Portia Pendleton LCSW: Yeah. So when I went, I got a lot, like, teary eyed multiple times because there's definitely people of all ages, right? Like the little kiddos I didn't see, like well, actually, the second time I went, there was really young ones there, probably around your daughter's age and then older, right? So like forty s, fifty s, teens my age, whatever. And women of every age were there singing everything, laughing and just like, loving life, and it was just like so beautiful. So the first time I saw it was definitely more hyped, right? Like, people were singing and dancing and that was great and awesome. And then the second time I saw it, I went with my friend and we were sitting in between this group of women who are in their sixty s and seventy s, and it was like quieter, and I really appreciated that because then the slow songs I just was like weeping during and they were so into it. I forget which one it was. I think it was the song. It was after All Too Well, and then one of the more sexy ones, they were like, Whoa. Like screaming and clapping, and I was like, wow, okay.Dr. Katrina Furey MD: I know, I just thought also in the movie. Taylor is having so much fun. You can just tell she is just like loving what she's doing. And I was like, if only we could all feel that way with our I just it was so cool to see her loving it so much. And I just thought it was so cool to I like how she didn't do it chronologically. It seemed like it wasn't chronological right. In terms of which era she was doing. It wasn't like we're going to start at the beginning and go till the present. And I liked that because you got to see all these different eras of her life and just see how she's grown up but in this mishmashed way, right? From love story to the sexy chairs to the man to everything. It was so cool. And the dancing was great. I loved the diversity of her dancers from body type, gender, race, skin color, everything. It was awesome. And that she just highlighted them all. I loved all of the intense walking with all of it. I was like, I want to walk.Portia Pendleton LCSW: I Know.Dr. Katrina Furey MD: What if you imagine you come out to get your patient? Never. But it reminded me back of our dancing days with doing like jazz walk off the floor. I just missed that walk.Portia Pendleton LCSW: Her Shoes. I love shoes. So they're all custom louboutins red bottoms. The boots, I was like, oh, the pink ones, the blue ones, the midnight blue ones. They were stunning. And I wanted to know and then she had loafers that were louboutins and like a new shoe leather. Right. Nice. They typically hurt. Obviously hers were broken in. Obviously they were like and obviously shelted.Dr. Katrina Furey MD: Like butter, I'd imagine.Portia Pendleton LCSW: Right form to her foot. And I was like, how can I get a pair? Obviously not one that she wore, because that would be insanely expensive. But I just want one of them so badly. And we'll see.Dr. Katrina Furey MD: We'll See. If anyone else has a hookup, let us know.Portia Pendleton LCSW: Yeah. So the eras were in order of. We started with Lover and then there was Fearless evermore Reputation. Speak now. Red Folklore, 1989. Then the acoustic set, which we got in the movie. You're on your own, kid. And then our song. And then ended with midnights. What did you think about the order? You said that you liked that it wasn't right. Like from debut on?Dr. Katrina Furey MD: I did. Because I think I like that they could intersperse the slower sets and then the hits and then some slower stuff. And I think since I haven't historically been, like, a grade A swifty, I just like her music. But I'm not out there. There would be these songs that I hadn't heard before. I'm ashamed to admit maybe, but I was like, oh, that's lavender haze. Or hearing the songs or the albums that maybe I didn't listen to. And then the hits would come next. Or, like, the more upbeat songs, I guess.Portia Pendleton LCSW: Yeah.Dr. Katrina Furey MD: So I liked it. But what about you?Portia Pendleton LCSW: I really loved it. I think it helped me find more songs that I have been really liking of hers. I really like Midnight's a lot. I think I knew her debut album, right? Like the classic, like, our song, her Country More album. And then I don't think I was really in it for fearless and speak now. So I kind of bopped back in after those two. And then I ended up seeing which was, yeah, I knew Red because that was when I turned 22. So that was very fitting. Taylor is one year older than me, so talking about why people feel so close with her is that she's been making music forever. And it's always been luckily for me, which I feel like is a gift. So on brand for what I'm going through and high school. Right. Like, growing up, love, heartbreak into more now. I think some of the slow songs, like, are adult. Yes. They don't have to be, but just some of the feelings and experiences are so fitting now that it's just like.Dr. Katrina Furey MD: But even though from the beginning, I feel like they were so fitting. Right. So she said it spans 17 years, which is astounding. Right? And so she was like 15 writing this stuff. And I was hoping we would touch on this because I think clearly her music and just like, her as a person resonates with the masses internationally. Right. And I find that really fascinating because on the one hand, just stereotypically, she is a privileged, skinny, white blonde girl who's pretty. Right. So on one hand, I feel like we could all really hate her. Right?Portia Pendleton LCSW: I think people do, but not I.Dr. Katrina Furey MD: But do you know what I mean? On the one hand, she kind of was very blessed coming from a supportive family that had a lot of money, who could afford to chase her dreams with her, could afford to move to Nashville, all of that stuff. I feel like you could argue, like, she's starting off with a huge privilege in that way. I don't think you can say that. That's not true. And even if you go back to her early songs, the songwriting and the emotion behind it is amazing. And I really feel like she's like a savant in terms of music and songwriting in particular. And even the way she sings the songs, like the inflections in her voice when she's singing versus kind of talking, the tone of her voice, the way she delivers it. For me, I think it's like all of that together that resonates with everyone. And I just think, what a gift. I think it started all the way back with Wasn't Teardrops on My Guitar her song?Portia Pendleton LCSW: Yeah.Dr. Katrina Furey MD: All the way back with that. To our song to Love story. Like the early ones. They speak to you. Right. And I spend so much of my professional life helping adults find words to describe their feelings. That, to me, it's, like, amazing that a 1415 year old could capture that in a beautiful way. Not just, like, acoustically beautiful, but the words she's saying and the message conveying. Right. It's astounding. And then I think just seeing this movie tour and you see her evolution and how her songwriting all the way to the presenting has gotten so much more comp…

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Episode 42 - Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone w/ Dr. Zheala Qayyum Oct 23, 2023

Show notes

Welcome back to Analyze Scripts, where a psychiatrist and a therapist analyze what Hollywood gets right and wrong about mental health. Today, we are thrilled to be joined by one of Dr. Furey's favorite teachers from residency, Dr. Zheala Qayyum. Dr. Qayyum is the Training Director for the Child and Adolescent Psychiatry Fellowship Program and the Medical Director of the Emergency Psychiatry Services at Boston Children's Hospital. She has published on the use of fairy tales in teaching child psychiatry and joins us to discuss the first "Harry Potter" movie. In this episode, we discuss many interesting themes including the psychological effects of early childhood trauma and neglect, the attachment styles of the three main characters, and the importance of friendship in identity formation. We also reflect on the mirror of Erised and the importance of exploring dark feelings and themes in childhood from a safe space, such as through this magical film. We hope you enjoy as much as we enjoyed speaking with Dr. Qayyum!InstagramTikTokWebsite[00:10] Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Hi, I'm Dr. Katrina Fieri, a psychiatrist. And I'm Portia Pendleton, a licensed clinical social worker. And this is Analyze Scripts, a podcast where two shrinks analyze the depiction of mental health in movies and TV shows. Our hope is that you learn some legit info about mental health while feeling like you're chatting with your girlfriends. There is so much misinformation out there.[00:30] Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: And it drives us nuts.[00:31] Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: And if someday we pay off our student loans or land a sponsorship, like with a lay flat airline or a major beauty brand, even better. So sit back, relax, grab some popcorn and your DSM Five and enjoy.[00:50] Dr. Zheala Qayyum: Don'T.[01:17] Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: For a very special episode of Analyze Scripts, because one of my favorite attendings for my residency training is joining us to talk about one of my favorite movies, harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone, or The Philosopher's Stone, depending on which country you're watching it in. So today we have Dr. Gila Kayum, the training director for the Child and Adolescent Psychiatry Fellowship program and the medical director of the emergency Psychiatry services at Boston Children's Hospital. She holds faculty appointments at Yale School of Medicine and Harvard Medical School, and she's the associate director of medical student education and Psychiatry. She's also serving as a lieutenant colonel in the United States Army Reserves Medical Corps and deployed to Afghanistan and was later mobilized in support of the COVID-19 response to New York. Dr. Kayoom has published on the topics of medical education, autism spectrum disorders, inpatient treatment of early psychosis, and LGBTQ, plus youth, the use of fairy tales in teaching child psychiatry, and the risk of youth suicide and firearms. She has a particular interest in the areas of supervision and mentorship, which she's so good at psycho oncology and palliative care. And I feel like we always called her Dr. Q. I guess I'm allowed to call her by her first name because I'm a grown up now, but I still feel kind of funny about it. But you were one of my favorite mentors, and I feel like you're really special because sometimes when you have a mentor, it kind of feels like they're trying to mold you in their image. But I always felt like you just wanted what was best for me, and you were so encouraging, and I just always loved working with you, and you hold a really special place in my heart.[02:58] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: So this is really fun to talk about.[03:00] Dr. Zheala Qayyum: Harry Potter no, this is, like, making me teary. This is just a lovely intro I have gotten. And it's just such a thrill that the people that you invest in grow up to be such amazing child or adult or psychiatrists, but more so, just people. And you're very dear to me as well. The best part of being an educator and a clinician is that not only are you trying to sort of transfer your skills or your wisdom, but you get to see your kids grow and become they're meant to be and their best versions. And if you think you're a part of that journey, I think that's just the most amazing privilege.[03:50] Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Well, I know you were for me, and I know you were for a lot of my co residents, so it's so true. So I am dying to talk to you about this movie, given your interest in using fairy tales to explore development. So I just kind of want to jump right in and hear what you think about the first Harry Potter movie and kind of what jumps out at you.[04:13] Dr. Zheala Qayyum: So I think one of the loveliest things about Harry Potter was that it was a modern fairy tale, and we've had a lot of lovely fantasy series, but there was something very special about Harry Potter that just captured everyone, whether it was kids or adults. It's interesting, whenever I ask people what their favorite children's book is, inevitably, for a lot of them, it's Harry Potter. And I read it in med school. So I was much older, but I still stood in line at midnight yes, where I was standing next to like, ten year olds in their robes, and I was like, Am I in the right place? But you felt like you were in the right place. And I think that's what it communicated was it was or is a modern fairy tale for all ages. It just has that essence of a fairy tale, that it means something different to different people at whatever stage of development or life they're in. So a child can interpret it in their own way and have things that they resonate with. And as adults, we might find things that resonate to us, whether based on the hero's journey, these ordeals and call to action and your helpers that bring you along, but also the trepidations, the challenges, the times you doubt yourself when things are there. How do you overcome challenges and this power of transformation through a journey and a story that you're not the same person that you started off as, but with all of the things that you've had to experience? How does that evolve and transform you till you come full circle in some way? Not the same person that left, but so much more wiser grown. I think it's the transformative journey that we see from the first book that started, but there are these just themes that just feel like so relevant to today about loss and difficulty and when you're seeing this drive for power around you and how do you fit in the whole picture. And we usually have a reluctant protagonist in many stories that is not fully sure they want to take on the adventure and the call for action, and yet they do. But I think most importantly for me, the biggest thing was the importance of hope and friends.[07:04] Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Yeah, I totally agree. And it's funny you mentioned hearkening back to standing in line at midnight at, like, Borders Books or wherever you were. I totally did the same thing. I think I was in middle school and then high school. But it is really fascinating how Harry Potter and other fairy tales like it. But I feel like especially Harry Potter, it is such a cultural, communal enjoyment and not just in American culture, but certainly worldwide. It's just such a really cool thing that it just really spans ages, genders, cultures, nationalities, languages. Everyone loves it, right? And I feel like this movie rewatching it now as an adult with my children was so meaningful and fun. So I have a seven year old and a four year old and they were just enraptured by it. They wouldn't stop talking the whole time. They wouldn't take their eyes off and this isn't like a cartoon, so they're still at the ages where really it's cartoons that catch their attention for two and a half hours. But this one did, and that was really interesting to me and really special. And I love some of their commentary. Like, with her, MayAny always raising her hand. My daughter, which I was so happy, said she's got a really big brain. And I was like, yes, she know. And then when Draco came on the scene very early on, my son was like, oh, he's a bully. And I was just you know, it's just really cool to kind of see kids watching it too.[08:40] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yeah. I think it's worth mentioning something interesting. When I was starting to read the books before the music, the movies had started kind of coming out. I remember very distinctly the religious organization that I was a part of at the time was very split with people thinking that you shouldn't be reading it. It's magic. It's witchcraft. Witchcraft. And then the other half being like, if you know the story, it's like this good versus evil. Good always triumphs. There's hope. There's, like you were saying, friendships. I mean, it's such a positive message. And there's so many interesting.[09:23] Dr. Zheala Qayyum: I don't.[09:23] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Know, like, spiritual parallels and parallels throughout all of the books. But I think it was just an interesting time to be know, hearing this spoken series is bad or evil and then reading them. Know, in my family, we were very pro Harry Potter and loving the messages. And I think that was just like I don't know. I'm sure some other people might have had that experience.[09:45] Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Oh, I totally remember.[09:48] Dr. Zheala Qayyum: Right.[09:48] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Like, we come to see this boy in, I would say, a pretty abusive home with a lot of neglect. And I think it's funny watching it or thinking about it now versus in. Like, I'm curious what even your kids picked up of the scenes. The parents certainly seem mean and right dismissive. And you picked that up even as a child, like something not right. Why does Dudley receive all of these gifts and Harry not his clothing?[10:18] Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Yeah, my kids were asking about that?[10:21] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Like why are they so mean to?[10:22] Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Why is he living under the stairs? They certainly were asking those questions.[10:29] Dr. Zheala Qayyum: Yeah, no, I think it's a really lovely depiction of how prevalent and difficult it is for kids that have neglect. And I think also it really sort of from starting from him being under the stairs and just watching Dudley get 36 presents and counting and him thinking about, like he has to get hand me downs to go to school and what that would be like. Just that differential that was created and that sense of otherness or I don't belong or I'm not good enough. It really, I think, beautifully highlights how a child will internalize that, because you see that then play out throughout, which partly keeps him humble when everybody thinks he's this amazing everybody knows him, but he's coming from where? Nobody. Knows anything about him. And he held on to that for a very long time and it really changed his I think we see him work through it, but his sense of belief and faith in his own abilities and his self because they told him he wasn't good enough for a good eleven years. And that sense of feeling like you're worth something that he didn't get initially. And how does one young child actually grow to develop that? Partly it kept him humble in the face of, I don't know, magician dumb or stardom or whatever that was that he got later on. But also, it really impeded his ability to rely on other people. And we see. This in the later books as well, but whenever he has to do something, he's very like the avoidant attachment style. I can't trust people to be there for me. And we know later in the books there are other losses that sort of reinforce that for him. But he embarks on everything on his own and working with others and trusting others comes very, very it's very challenging for him, comes much later.[12:52] Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: And I like that you brought up his attachment style. Can you explain a little bit what avoided attachment is or the kind of kids or adults we might see that in and how Harry either fits in or doesn't quite fit in.[13:09] Dr. Zheala Qayyum: So the avoidant attachment style is when a young child has inconsistent caregiving where their needs may not be consistently met. And so rather than clinging to their caregiver to get their needs met, they're like avoiding contact with them because they don't know are they coming, are they going, or are they going to be there. So the child starts to avoid that contact and doesn't get need or avoids contact with the caregiver to get soothed and self regulated. So we see the same thing, that since the Attachment is our template for forming relationships, that we carry on in life, we see Harry particularly later on as he's growing older, that even in adolescence, whenever there is a challenge, he goes off on his own rather than relying on anybody else because he doesn't know. Are people going to really be there for him or not? Are they going to leave? Are they going to neglect him? So he might as well do that for himself and just go off on his own. So that sense of avoiding closeness with people because they might leave or not be there for you, is that sense that avoidant children internalize and so they don't keep looking for closeness with people. It's good that we see Harry work through this over a great many books, which also tells you that it runs in parallel with the life experience of a young child who's had early life neglect and avoidant attachment style might need a lot of reinforcement of positive interactions to say, no, you can rely on other people. If you do get close to people, it'll be okay. And yet loss is a very, I think, integral part of our human experience and life. And for an avoidant child, there is that risk that it just might reinforce that belief that people are not going to be there for them.[15:18] Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: And in addition to Harry having that early childhood neglect and abuse, he also had early loss of his parents, who seem like lovely caregivers, who were likely very attuned to his needs, at least as far as we can tell, and that he was present for their murder. And so I was really curious about your take on that, given around the age they depict that and then what it must have been like for him at age eleven to start learning the truth about that loss at the same time as he's learning their loss is why he's famous or special. I just imagine that's got to be so confusing.[16:03] Dr. Zheala Qayyum: Absolutely. And I think that's such a lovely point of there's so much magic instilled in that power, of that parental love that he carried with him that it literally burned. Professor Squirrel.[16:22] Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Right.[16:23] Dr. Zheala Qayyum: It was so powerful. I think it does show, though, however, that it was at a very sort of vulnerable time period in his life when that death occurred. He was still a baby, and we're thinking, like, till from infancy to toddlerhood, maybe the first part went well when his parents were attuned and taking care of him, but later on, and still in that very vulnerable time frame, he had a lot of neglect. And so as you're entering into your preteen years, your sense of, how do I relate with my peers? Who am I in relationship with them? Will they accept me as? We're thinking about later, latency age and early preteens going into your identity formation, who you are is so sort of determined by who are the people in your life? Who brought you here? What is your story? How did you start? And I remember as a child, my mom would tell…

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Episode 41 - "The Nightmare Before Christmas" Oct 16, 2023

Show notes

Welcome back to Analyze Scripts, where a psychiatrist and a therapist analyze what Hollywood gets right and wrong about mental health. Today, we have a fun little episode exploring Tim Burton's 1993 film "The Nightmare Before Christmas." In this episode, we discuss our theories about the psychological motivations behind Jack and Sally's behaviors. We use the characters of Oogie Boogie and Lock, Shock and Barrel to explore the diagnoses of oppositional defiant disorder (ODD), conduct disorder, and antisocial personality disorder (ASPD). And we find ourselves wondering - is the Mayor supposed to depict bipolar disorder or a shady politician? We also discuss ways to talk to children after traumatic events like sadistic toys ruining your favorite holiday! We have a lot of laughs along the way and hope you enjoy this spooky episode!InstagramTikTokWebsiteDr. Katrina Furey: Hi, I'm Dr. Katrina Fieri, a psychiatrist.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And I'm Portia Pendleton, a licensed clinical social worker.Dr. Katrina Furey: And this is Analyze Scripts, a podcast where two shrinks analyze the depiction of mental health in movies and TV shows.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Our hope is that you learn some legit info about mental health while feeling like you're chatting with your girlfriends.Dr. Katrina Furey: There is so much misinformation out there, and it drives us nuts.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And if someday we pay off our student loans or land a sponsorship, like.Dr. Katrina Furey: With a lay flat airline or a major beauty brand, even better.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: So sit back, relax, grab some popcorn.Dr. Katrina Furey: And your DSM Five and enjoy.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Welcome back to another episode this spooky month in October. Today we are covering The Nightmare Before Christmas, which is a Tim Burton movie. It came out shockingly in 1993.Dr. Katrina Furey: I don't think that's shocking, Portia.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I am shook. Why? I thought this was like, new. I don't maybe like Max ten years old, and this is almost as old as I am.Dr. Katrina Furey: You didn't watch this in childhood?Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Never seen it before. Watching it for this?Dr. Katrina Furey: You never saw it before?Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Not once. What? I just never got the draw.Dr. Katrina Furey: I don't know.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: It's always shown right everywhere. Like the holiday season.Dr. Katrina Furey: That's why we're covering it. And it's a classic Halloween and Christmas movie.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: So my childhood, because I guess this is a childhood ish movie are like Pumpkin town. Do you ever see that? It's on Disney.Dr. Katrina Furey: Yes.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Okay, so I like those one through three. Hocus pocus pocus harry Potter yes.Dr. Katrina Furey: Which we'll be covering in a couple of weeks. Maybe next week.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Maybe it's already out.Dr. Katrina Furey: I don't know.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Stay tuned. So I don't know, I've never, ever seen it.Dr. Katrina Furey: Wow, that's wild. I thought for sure when I recommended this you had seen it. Wow. Interesting. A lot of questions. I've seen it a bunch of times in childhood. And now, as a know, we watch it every year. When we went to Disney World recently at Halloween time, they have a whole Mickey's not so scary Halloween party with Skellington. Like it's like a big deal.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Scary though. Like your kids aren't scared of the movie?Dr. Katrina Furey: I think at certain parts a little bit, but not really. Which I also think is interesting because I also think it is like a spooky movie. And there's also now we have a couple of the children's books. People would gift them to us over the years, and one of them talks about Jack's Sleigh getting shot down. And I always make up a different word for that at that point because I feel like that's a little too much. But there's certainly spooky elements to this movie and scary elements like kidnapping the nefarious, sadistic know. So it is really interesting that kids aren't globally, I know, terrified of it.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And like, Jack, at one time, I think he's honestly the least scary, but he bears his teeth, right? And does a scary face. And I was like, oh, yikes.Dr. Katrina Furey: It's very Tim Burton. It is.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: It's just not my huh.Dr. Katrina Furey: So what are some of your questions? Like, why did I make you watch.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Are we talking about this? No, I'm kidding. I guess just why is it so popular? I know I'm very well aware that other people can like things that I don't. And I'm probably honestly in the minority, maybe minority for this movie, but I just don't understand the draw, really. I think it's scary.Dr. Katrina Furey: Were you scared of sin at all? I don't know.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I just felt like a little watching it. Really? I watched it at night, which doesn't help anything. But I don't know.Dr. Katrina Furey: I think it's like a short movie. It's a cartoon. The animation, I think, is unique. And I would imagine back in the 90s, especially unique. When you think about Disney animation at that time with Beauty and the Beast, Ariel Aladdin, it was just very different. And again, kind of like we talk about in our Harry Potter episode, there's something about the darkness that I think people are drawn to, even children, right? Like, you experience dark feelings as part of being a human. So maybe there's something about it. Where? In Halloween town? I mean, all kids celebrate Halloween, unless maybe you're very religious and you don't dress up or something. But most American children in our culture celebrate Halloween, and kids love it, but there is a spooky element, but that kind of adds to the fun. So maybe there's something about that darkness that resonates with you even as a child. At the beginning, they're all just like being their old Halloween selves and just like, really out there.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I mean, I'm easily scared. I am not a fan ever, even in young 20s, late teens, of going to a pumpkin. Right. What are they called? Like a haunted hayride. I don't like that because I think the actors always know who in the crowd is, like, the best victim. And it's always me.Dr. Katrina Furey: It's always you.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And I've been traumatized at people jumping out at you theme parks. Right.Dr. Katrina Furey: They have Halloween things like, it's scary.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And I've been chased and I hate what do you think you cut down trees with?Dr. Katrina Furey: No, like, axe murderers, shovels chainsaws. That is really scary. Yeah, no, I'm not into that either. I wouldn't volunteer to go walk around and be scared. But I do like this movie. No, I totally hear that. So you're not maybe an adrenaline junkie? Like you wouldn't skydive maybe?Portia Pendleton, LCSW: No.Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah, I think some people get a thrill from it, like their dopamine, and adrenaline is just, like, pumping.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: It's, like, good for them. I think it is a safer way, right. Getting it in, like, a risky way.Dr. Katrina Furey: That's true. That's true. So I guess I thought this would be a fun movie to talk about. A, because it's a classic, apparently, this news to Portia, but allegedly it's a classic. It has, like a really interesting. Like, I didn't realize until just now that Catherine O'Hara is the voice of Sally. I think Sally's a really interesting character. I feel like even if you walk around home goods nowadays, you see Jack and Sally coffee mugs, jack and Sally salt and pepper shakers. Like it's in our culture that's always like a cool Halloween costume to dress up as Jack and Sally as like a couple's costume. Now you're in on it. Maybe you'll be Sally for Halloween. We'll see danny Elfman is the singing voice for Jack Skellington, who's the main character. And then Chris Sarandon is his speaking voice. I didn't know they were two different people. Me know peewee herman. Paul Rubens plays one of the little boys.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Locke.Dr. Katrina Furey: We'll get into lockshock and barrel in a little bit, like stuff like that. Like the names of the little boys, right, are a know. But I thought this is just such a cool movie, I guess because A, I love Halloween, I love Christmas. It combines them. And I just feel like it's all about being yourself and being happy with like we see Jack, he's the what is he? The Pumpkin King of Halloween town. And it starts off with know, they're celebrating another great Halloween. And you see him rise up from the fountain in that initial song. I think the music is really good.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I think the songs were clever and catchy and sweet, some of them. Yes.Dr. Katrina Furey: And I think the music has likely contributed to why it's so popular because it's just beautiful music and we see everyone celebrating. But then Jack goes back to his haunted house where he lives with his ghost dog, Zero and seems kind of like, okay, do it all again next year. He seems kind of bored and not really into it. And then all of a sudden he discovers Christmastown and wants to become Santa Claus, basically. And tries but does a really poor job.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I thought it was like I mean, again, I'm not trying to be a hater, and I'm really not, but I thought that when he's dropping off all the presents, it's like traumatizing.Dr. Katrina Furey: Oh, my gosh.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: He thinks he's doing this wonderful you know, at his core, he is not Santa.Dr. Katrina Furey: Right.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And so he's bringing all of these literally terrifying gifts to the people of.Dr. Katrina Furey: The world, the children.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I know, they're literally like running after.Dr. Katrina Furey: Them, trying to eat them, trying to strangle them. It is pretty frightening. But he thinks he's doing good and his intention is good. So it is, I feel, like, an interesting commentary on how our intent might not match how our actions land and how that's important to acknowledge for the other person. And then he sort of comes back to himself and accepts that that's who he is.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And Santa says Happy Halloween. Which is sweet when he's flying over them. Yeah, that is they kidnapped him and attempted to murder.Dr. Katrina Furey: Oh, yeah, I know. And I guess that's where Jack did order that, right?Portia Pendleton, LCSW: No. Was it?Dr. Katrina Furey: Oogie boogie? Who was it that ordered them to go capture?Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Capture? I think he just wanted to meet him, right?Dr. Katrina Furey: Oh, I thought he wanted them to hide him so he could be Santa.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Oh, I thought he just was getting, like, tips and then Jack or Locke's Shock and, like, took it know?Dr. Katrina Furey: Um, so it's just I don't know. It's interesting. What do you think about the dynamic between Jack and Sally?Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Interesting.Dr. Katrina Furey: I wanted more of a backstory on both of them. Yeah.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: She seems like she cares a lot about him, and it's like, why? Did you previously have a relationship? Are you just kind of admiring him, as everyone in the town seems to do? He was caught kind of off guard, it seemed like, because she was showing him a lot of care, a lot.Dr. Katrina Furey: Of affection, and she was always there when he was in a bind and needed some help. I was confused by that too. Like, at the end, when they kiss, I think that's a classic scene, but I was like, oh, they could have just been friends. They could have been siblings. Like, I don't know. But it was surprising that now they're in love. I think it is also kind of classic for the time. But Sally, we see her literally take parts of herself off to protect him, which I also think is an interesting commentary that the girl is sacrificing parts of herself to be there for the guy.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I think you could talk about internal family systems with that, right? Like, parts theory that's not really about your body parts, but, like, internal parts.Dr. Katrina Furey: But I think it's, like, just the.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Symbol of her sacrificing parts and herself and going to great lengths, like, throwing herself off the tower, sewing herself back.Dr. Katrina Furey: Together, poisoning her father, the Doctor Finkelstein, aka Frankenstein. Yeah. Who I guess was the father. I didn't pick that up until we were reading a little bit about it. I thought he was just, like, an evil scientist who was holding her captive. It now really creeps me out if he was her dad.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yeah, that's what it says. Like, I don't think that's clear at all in the movie, so you're right. I think it feels more strange and.Dr. Katrina Furey: Like, dark if it's her dad.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yeah.Dr. Katrina Furey: But I think Sally is like a character that's just really, again, popular in our culture and helps Jack out, but also tries to caution him. He sort of wants her to make his suit. Jack's very demanding, now that I think about it. But she's like, Jack, this isn't like you right. You don't look like know when he puts on the beard, and he doesn't.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Look like that sense of impending doom. And I'm like, is that anxiety.Dr. Katrina Furey: Or like yeah, you're listening to your gut. Very unclear.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yeah. So she does not want him to go to the world and be Santa. And he is taking charge of Halloween Town, so he know everyone in on it. Everyone's making toys or an aircraft of.Dr. Katrina Furey: Trauma and torture, but what they think are toys because they're spooky and creepy to them, these are funny. These are toys. But it's interesting how I don't know. I guess you could even interpret this through maybe like a cross cultural lens. Like if Halloween Town is one culture and Christmas Town is a different culture, and what it's like to try to.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Assimilate I like how they accidentally captured the Easter easter Bunny. And unfortunately, the Easter bunny. Right. Like, didn't they just take him to Oogie Boogie?Dr. Katrina Furey: Oh, they didn't send it back. In my mind, they send him back. I don't know. Maybe I'm rewriting that story because it's too dark.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yeah, I don't know.Dr. Katrina Furey: Either way, what did you think about Oogie Boogie?Portia Pendleton, LCSW: He was scary. I thought it was interesting at the end that he's just like all bugs.Dr. Katrina Furey: I know. That's the part that really creeps me out. Even to this day when I watch.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: It, I'm just like, oh, he was definitely dark. And again, yes, I'm aware that children's stories, especially fairy tales right, can be dark. My favorite being Harry Potter, which gets progressively darker, which I think is as I get older. We've talked about that on the episode, so feel free to check that one out. But it just felt like really spooky. Like he's bad. He's a bad guy. Also made me think of the Grinch. Right. Because of where he is. You get to him through all these pipes. He lives away from everyone garbage. Not really, but in a sense, yeah.Dr. Katrina Furey: And why in a town li…

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Episode 40 - "Awake" w/ Dr. Antonio Gonzalez, MD Oct 09, 2023

Show notes

Welcome back to Analyze Scripts, where a psychiatrist and a therapist analyze what Hollywood gets right and wrong about mental health. Today, we are analyzing the 2007 film "Awake." This movie stars Hayden Christensen, Jessica Alba and Terrence Howard. There is a nefarious plot to kill Clay who finds out during surgery. According to our guest, Dr. Gonzalez from the Yale Anesthesia Department, Clay experiences intraoperative awareness AKA "awareness" during surgery. The movie is filled with plot holes and some pretty inaccurate medical information. We learn so much from Dr. Gonzalez about anesthesia and patient pain. PTSD, medical factiods and financial stressors are topics in this episode. We hope you enjoy!Dr. Gonzalez Podcast Episode on Interoperative AwarenessWebsiteTikTokInstagramDr. Katrina Furey, MD: Hi, I'm Dr. Katrina Fieri, a psychiatrist. And I'm Portia Pendleton, a licensed clinical social worker. And this is Analyze Scripts, a podcast where two shrinks analyze the depiction of mental health in movies and TV shows. Our hope is that you learn some legit info about mental health while feeling.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Like you're chatting with your girlfriends.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: There is so much misinformation out there, and it drives us nuts. And if someday we pay off our.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Student loans or land a sponsorship, like.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: With a lay flat airline or a major beauty brand, even better. So sit back, relax, grab some popcorn and your DSM Five, and enjoy. Welcome back for another very exciting episode of Analyze Scripts. As part of our Halloween month today, we are covering the 2007 thriller mystery movie called Awake with our wonderful guest, Dr. Antonio Gonzalez. And I cannot think of anything scarier than being awake during a surgery, so this is perfect for our Halloween month. But just as a quick bio, dr. Gonzalez is an associate professor of anesthesiology and the director of the Obstetrics anesthesia Fellowship at Yale New Haven Hospital. He completed his residency program at Rutgers in New Jersey and decided to pursue a fellowship in obstetric anesthesia at Columbia University in New York. And I will actually be joining one of his podcasts in the near future to talk about eternal mental health and anesthesia, which I'm really excited about. But thank you so much, Dr. Gonzalez, for joining us.Dr. Antonio Gonzalez, MD: Thank you so much for the invitation. I'm really happy to be here with you today.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: So, Portia, where do we even get started with this movie? Have you seen it before?Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I have not seen the movie ever. I think that something like this would probably have been a little scary to watch. Yeah, I think a lot of people who are not in medicine and maybe people who are in medicine, I think it's a common fear to wake up during surgery. I think a lot of people going in get really calmed down once talking to the anesthesiologist or telling them that this is their process or this is.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: How it's going to be.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And all of the machines and monitors that they now have, you were saying a little bit before we got started today. So I think this is just like a pretty common fear that people have going into surgery.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: What do you think, Dr. Gonzalez?Dr. Antonio Gonzalez, MD: Yes, I think that definitely introvertive awareness. It's definitely a fear of our patients. And unfortunately, this movie actually may have hyped that fear. But fortunately, the reality is that introvertive awareness is relatively rare, particularly these days. We have way better medications, way better monitors that help us to prevent intraperative awareness. The incidence has been documented to be somewhere around 0.1% to 0.2% in the United States.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: So what is that, like, one to two out of 1000 cases? Something like that?Dr. Antonio Gonzalez, MD: That is correct, yeah. Because there are so many surgeries in the united States, that's about 20,000 to 40,000 cases a year, which still a lot. Right. The consequences of interoperative awareness can go from just having fear of future surgeries, even withholding surgeries for some of their relatives, particularly their kids, because they are so scared of what happened to them, they may actually be very fearful of letting their relatives go through surgery. Yeah. So that is one of the consequences. But, again, it's relatively rare these days.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Okay. Dr. Gonzalez.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Is there anything in common.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: That the people who this happens to.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: With each other, or is it just kind of like yeah.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Is there, like, a way to predict it that it could?Dr. Antonio Gonzalez, MD: So we don't have particularly great ways of predicting who will have operative awareness. We do know that there is a certain patient population or certain surgeries. So there are surgeries like trauma, cardiac surgery, and Obstetric. Anesthesia. Obstetric cases seem to be and when I mean Obstetric cases, Caesarean deliveries, particularly. These are cases that are very well known to have an increased risk of intraperative awareness. The reason behind it is because trauma patient and cardiac patients have a very delicate hemodynamics, meaning their blood pressure, it's low, tends to be on the lower side. They have a high risk of coronary vascular disease. So having their blood pressure too high or too low, it's at extreme risk. So in order to maintain that balance between the anesthesia that it's provided and the hemodynamics, those patients tend to be at a higher risk. And that implies for both trauma patients and cardiac patients. Now, the Obstetric patient population is at increased risk because of the risk that the anesthesiologist may perceive from the drugs transferring to the baby. So all the medications we give to mom will go to baby, and that increase in medications has been thought to be pretty dangerous to the baby. So anesthesiologists at some point, we're very scared of giving extra medications to mom nowadays. Again, I think that because our monitoring and the drugs that we have available and the awareness that introvertive awareness in this particular patient population, it's higher, we have improved the techniques that we have for providing general anesthesia. Now, that being said, we do a lot of our anesthesia under regional, and having pain during a surgery, even with epidural or a spinal, can be equally as scary, if not even more scary than having introvertive awareness while asleep.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: I was wondering that. So, before we get into this a little further, I just want to give a quick recap of the plot of this movie. So, in the movie Awake, we see Hayden Christensen playing the main character, Clay Bearsford Jr. Who is, like a fancy pants financial person, super uber rich. He does something with stocks, probably, that I don't understand. And you see this interesting relationship with his mom early on, who's played her name's Lilith, and she's played by Lena Olin. And then we see Jessica Alba. This is one of her big roles, playing Sam Lockwood, who's his fiance. They get married very quickly because he is waiting for a cardiac transplant due to history of cardiomyopathy, which is something that happens. That seemed pretty accurate. And then we see Terrence Howard playing his friend and surgeon, Dr. Jack Harper. And spoiler alert, turns out all of the medical professionals on the team, including his fiance, were in on this plot to murder him during the transplant in order to inherit all his money and pay off some malpractice debt. Luckily, I think it was the anesthesiologist. The original one backed out. So this other guy was there, and somehow he figured out the plot, and he alerted authorities. And eventually, I think Dr. Harper injected the heart with adriamycin. I believe the Clay did, I guess, technically die on the table. When they delivered that news to his family, the mother committed suicide. I can't remember what she overdosed on. I'm assuming maybe Digoxin, which was in his bag. And then they wheeled the mom in and gave him her heart. And so he survived, and all the people got arrested. The end. That's basically the plot. Really quick. So getting back to what you were saying, Dr. Gonzalez, about the intraoperative awareness. So when you were saying that with these certain cases, trauma, cardiac, and OB with regional anesthesia, I'm thinking like an epidural, like for a C section or something like that. Like, if they give the epidural and it fails either in a C section or a regular delivery, vaginal delivery, would that be considered interoperative awareness?Dr. Antonio Gonzalez, MD: Well, if the patient is experiencing pain, yes, that can be as traumatic as experiencing intraperative awareness, because the patient mentally is completely there, but the patient is completely feeling the experience of the pain. And the definition of pain, actually, it's not only physical, but there is an emotional component to pain. Right. So what you describe as pain, you can only be the person that knows what pain is for you. So what we've learned through the years is that we are not the best judge of what pain is. The patient is the best judge of what pain is because pain is what the patient tells you pain is.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I'm so glad you said that.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: I think that's really important and to keep in mind the emotional side of it.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I like that also, just as I don't know a similarity right. In mental health, like pain mental pain, emotional pain is, like, what the patient is describing versus my definition in the DSM. But I really like that. Or just validating their experience. Well, this is what they experienced. Maybe someone else's was different.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Right.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I really like that.Dr. Antonio Gonzalez, MD: Yeah. I think that it's a great opportunity, because, as you mentioned, sometimes if, as physicians, we try to give an explanation to pain, right. We may actually minimize the patients. And at the end of the day, what ends up happening is that the patients feels that their feelings, they're being gaslighted. So the patient is telling you, this is what I feel, and you say, well, it's not that big of a deal. Right. But it is to the patient, it is. So pain is, again, what the patient tells you pain is.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: No, I think that's great. And in my line of work, in private practice, I do end up seeing well, I see primarily women around pregnancy and postpartum. So I've heard many cases where the epidural failed, or it only took on half the side, or someone had a history of back surgery, so they met with the anesthesiologist ahead of time to talk about pain management options. And it is a super important aspect of prenatal care, especially delivery, and I'm sure that extends to other surgeries as well. So, Dr. Gonzalez, what are your thoughts about the way anesthesia was depicted in this movie? What they get right, what they get wrong?Dr. Antonio Gonzalez, MD: Well, there are so many things that they well, the one thing that they got right was to select the patient that was having a cardiac surgery. As we mentioned, patients with cardiac surgery have an increased risk of having introvertive awareness. So they got that one part right. Then the other thing is that it seems like they have a substitute anesthesiologist that's coming from another institution. It doesn't quite happen that way. You need to have privileges at that place. It's a little credentialed. Yeah. Unless he's a traveler. Sometimes we have anesthesiologists that are considered what is the term? Locums. That's correct, yes. So locums might have been a locums that they call in to substitute, but it's actually quite hard to find locums for very specific cardiac surgery. So I think that the other thing that I think was very wrongfully depicted was how easy he may look. The induction. The induction was basically he took this three CC syringe or four CC syringe. He gave it to the patient. He said, count back to ten. Cardiac inductions are very complicated. It requires a balance of many medications. Again, because there is this hemodynamic balance that you want to maintain. You don't want the patient's blood pressure to go too high. Do you want the patient's blood pressure to go too low? So that also it seems like it was completely off. And there is a point where the surgeons are discussing, like, well, we won't need you for a little bit, so go get a drink. We never leave the operating room.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Right.Dr. Antonio Gonzalez, MD: I know there is always somebody from anesthesia in the room that be like the anesthesiologist or anesthetist, but we just don't leave the patient in the or. Just because the surgeon tells us that they're not going to need us for a bit. So that was totally wrong.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Right. In my experience in medical school, rotating through that's exactly right. Even these long cases like cardiothoracic surgery, the anesthesiologist, maybe a resident, maybe the nurse, anesthetist. These words are hard to say. Someone's always there watching the monitor. They might be doing something else at the same time. I remember one time there was a resident practicing his golf swing, and I was like, this seems pretty unprofessional. But they're always watching the monitors. And I would imagine like this, especially watching the blood pressure, the heart rate, things like that. And they're always checking. They kept checking, at least in the cases I would be in, they would do things to check. The patient was still under enough. Not too far under. Not coming out of it either.Dr. Antonio Gonzalez, MD: Yes. And as you mentioned, sometimes the anesthesiologist, a lot of what we do, we may not be actually looking at the monitors, but because we're actually trained for so it's a three year program. By the sound of the machines, you actually know what is wrong. Like the pulse oximeter has a very typical sound. When the saturation drops, the alarms on the monitors are set off to go at X levels. Right. So you can set up your alarms. So even if we're like, let's say, fixing our medication drips or we're working on something that it's not necessarily looking at the monitor, just hearing the monitor, we are aware of what actually the vital signs are, and of course, the alarms are ever present. So we're always very aware of these alarms and everything that surrounds. We use pretty much all our senses when caring for patients.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: That makes a lot of sense.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: It's interesting. I think there was an episode on Grey's Anatomy years ago about the anesthesiologist at the hospital was like, has a substance use disorder. And he was, like, falling asleep next to the patient. And of course, it's a drama, so the young resident had to do something and didn't want to get in trouble by the attending or something. But I feel like I've seen not a lot of medical dramas. I mean, that's not like my jam. But the couple that I have there seems to always be the anesthesiologist is like sometimes a villain. I don't know.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Is that a stereotype? Yeah. Is that a stereotype?Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Or like, maybe just in TV, the.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Psychopath is often the villain too, so we can empathize.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yeah, it seems like it's a lot of risk with that jo…

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Episode 39 - "The Morning Show" Season 2 Oct 02, 2023

Show notes

Welcome back to Analyze Scripts, where a psychiatrist and a therapist analyze what Hollywood gets right and wrong about mental health. Today, we review "The Morning Show" season 2. This season is pretty heavy with themes of substance abuse, toxic relationships and Mitch Kessler's [SPOILER ALERT] death by suicide. We spend time discussing cancel culture and the complexities of the human experience. We also explore Cory's charcter, is he hypomanic? Or is it more of an ADHD presentation we are seeing? Who does Bradley choose? Is everyone in love with their mother? Listen now to your favorite TV loving shrinks for our full break down. We hope you enjoy!InstagramTikTokWebsiteDr. Katrina Furey, MD: Hi, I'm Dr. Katrina Fury, a psychiatrist.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And I'm Portia Pendleton, a licensed clinical social worker.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: And this is Analyze Scripts, a podcast where two shrinks analyze the depiction of mental health in movies and TV shows.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Our hope is that you learn some legit info about mental health while feeling like you're chatting with your girlfriends.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: There is so much misinformation out there, and it drives us nuts.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And if someday we pay off our student loans or land a sponsorship, like.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: With a lay flat airline or a major beauty brand, even better.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: So sit back, relax, grab some popcorn.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: And your DSM Five and enjoy. We get started. We just wanted to include a trigger warning for this episode. This episode could include discussion about some themes and topics that might be upsetting, including, but not limited to things like substance abuse, suicide, self harm, disordered, eating, and harassment and assault. So if any of those topics are too upsetting, we totally get it. Please feel free to skip this episode and join us next week. Otherwise, we hope you enjoyed.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Thanks for joining us today to cover the Morning Show season Two. If you have not listened to our take on season one, feel free to scroll back a couple episodes in our feed. Season two did come out in September of 2021, which was kind of in, like right. The throes still of COVID I mean, not like the Lockdown, which this show oh, my God. With that visual of New York City, which was eerie, to say the least. But did you watch this in real time?Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: No, I think I watched it last year, maybe, but rewatching it again. I had, like, a visceral reaction to all of the COVID stuff. What about you?Portia Pendleton, LCSW: It was weird. I really like and we talked about this about season one, how they show, right? Like, real time things. And it's so funny thinking back to hearing about, you know, it was like, in more of the Asian countries in Asia. It was kind of, like, sprinkling through. And I remember having some friends traveling internationally and being like, yeah, it was weird. Like, a lot of people are wearing masks, not domestically. And then all of a sudden, it was here, right? And it was like this very March white. I don't know, like, the grocery stores were full, and then they were empty. Schools were open and they were closed. It wasn't a smooth transition. Oh, this is coming. It was just like, okay, we're making this decision.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Oh, my gosh. I remember I'm so ashamed to admit this, but I was supposed to go on a bachelorette party to New Orleans, like, right in mid March, and it was for my very good friend, Dr. Kristen Heisel, an infectious disease physician at Mass General Hospital, so you can imagine what her March 2020 turned into. But as the news of COVID was, like, trickling in, I remember sitting in the psychiatrist talking to a colleague being like, this is just going to be like ebola where we all freaked out. And then it was fine. And I was like, trying to tell myself this because I really wanted to go on this Bachelorete trip and I feel so selfish saying that. Should we cut that? Like, does that make me look at.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I can share a similar thing.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: But then my friend kristen called me after they had this super secret meeting at MGH and was like, we're not like, you need to go to the grocery store immediately. This is like a really big deal. Harvard is preparing. They've talked to like, this is going to be a really serious thing. And I was like, oh, my god. And then two days later, yeah, everything shut down.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: It's funny because I was in DC. In February, like mid February, and there was still nothing. I don't know which speech I know that's not the right word for it was happening, but everyone in congress and the senate were there and it was really busy and it was fine. The airports were all good. But then I ended up having to come back from puerto Rico early. So I've told this story, obviously to my friends, but for my new friends out there listening. So we had been here and meeting family down in puerto Rico who had missed it by three days of what was kind of happening. And we were like, should we go? Should we not? And we're on the airplane, it's about to take off. They shut the door and everyone's like, phone alerts start to go off if you have news alerts. And it was that all international travel was stopped and we weren't going internationally. But I was immediately like, I need to get off this plane. Obviously I couldn't. So we went to Puerto Rico. We told our family that was down there and they just did not get it's. The like, this isn't a big deal. Why is everyone up there freaking out? Brian were like, my partner and I were like, how can you not understand? The grocery stores are empty. So we ended up flying home early and thank goodness we did because the island closed down. There was a ship in the port there from Italy that had some italian travelers that were sick and so it was just chaos. And then I remember coming back to work on Monday and we closed, right? So we had this meeting of how we were going to handle it. Everyone took their laptops and we went home. And then I never went back to that job.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Yeah, it was scary. I don't know, I feel like triggered watching this show and all the COVID stuff. It's like hard for me to watch. I notice kind of like not looking at the empty street. It's just like really hard for me to watch. I thought they did a magnificent job, though, covering it and how they had Daniel, the lone wolf, sort of like raising the alarm and seeing how Mia, who's now in Chip's old role, is kind know, not covering, know, choosing other stories to cover instead. And then they send him to China, right?Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And he is just like in the throes of it being like, this is serious. They keep giving him a short segment, they cut his segment, he's like but.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: It'S so symbolic of how we were all thinking about it until it was really serious, right? And then we sort of see the COVID sprinkled in, I thought, even starting with New Year's Eve and how joyous it all was, like, woohoo.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: 2020.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: And now as we watch it, you're just like, if we all knew what was coming. And then they still sort of sprinkle in COVID throughout the whole season as it builds. And I enjoyed how they kept reminding us of the date. Like, oh, Alex comes back February 20. And I was like, oh my God, that's like three weeks before it's going to start. And then her last day was like March, I don't know, like 14th or something, right? Like, it just kept building and building and building till we see Alex with COVID and we see Bradley, like, rushing into the Er to find her brother in the chaos of the emergency room with COVID cases. And it was just like, we see them all go home and trying to figure out contact tracing and Corey with.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: The and being silly with like, I don't know what that know?Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Well, we didn't know what it meant. And Corey's like, can you stand can you step back? 6ft, right? Oh my God.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: It was such like an awkward time because I think everyone it was new social norms that we all had to just adopt and everyone had their own length of time for getting on board with specific social norms or not. And I think it was just like, there's a lot of awkward interactions with people.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: I think what I found personally interesting as a physician and as a psychiatrist, as the time when it all hit, I was still doing some moonlighting at a local hospital and fortunately that was like extra work. And so as soon as I started to feel unsafe, I stopped. And I had a lot of guilt over that, but certainly I had a couple of shifts. I never will forget how scared I felt because I didn't have enough PPE. And I remember nurses coming in and smuggling in masks to each other and saying, don't tell the supervisor. And we were trying to figure out, as a psychiatrist, what do you do when there's a code and you don't know if the patient's COVID positive? Like a behavioral code, agitation, delirium, things like that, that you get called for in the middle of the night, like, how close do you get? How close do you not get? We didn't know yet how is it transmitted? How does it affect if you have history of asthma, how does it affect you? How does it affect kids? All of that stuff. I just will never forget being so scared. And I remember leaving one of those shifts and realizing, like, I can't do this right? Like, I'm terrified. And one of the nurses being like, Dr. Fury, are you okay? And I was like, no, I'm really not. And then I think as a physician, realizing this is really serious, during that time when everyone was trying to figure out, like, do we really need to stay home? Do we really need to stock up? And when people were like, oh, it's just 60 days lockdown. And I was like, this is going to be years, and it's just hard to watch.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: It was an interesting theme, like, you said that even I know one of the producers who went up to Mia with one of like it was a COVID story about a number going up, but there was also, like, three other things happening that day. And she was like, Nope. No, we're not running that story. And it's just right. Like, they didn't and then all of a sudden, it was the most important thing, right? Like, in mid March, everyone that's all anyone could talk about. And I remember, funnily enough, with the morning show being like, right, a news network. I'm just not, like, a news watcher. And I watched the news, right, for like, 72 hours when things had locked down. And then I was like, this isn't.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: So great for my mental mental health.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yeah, but it was wild.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: It was wild.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Dr what was it? Fauci. And then that woman with the scar, Deborah.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: And just watching them try to keep their composure. I'll never forget that. Meme going around with Dr. Fauci, like, touching his forehead in frustration and being like, you know, it's bad when the man telling you don't touch anything is like touching its head in frustration, right? And they showed clips of Dr. Fauci in this. So the season does culminate with COVID and I'm really interested to see now that we know season three is about to come out, like, how does that evolve? But there was a whole lot more in season two, and I have no idea how we're going to cover it.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: All in this know? So so we have some new characters. We have Stella, who's the new president of the news division.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: I think she took Cory's job.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yep.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: And then Corey took Fred's job, right, because they fired Fred.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yeah, that was a little I mean, it became clear, but right at the end of season one, it seemed like Corey was going to be let go, and then they ended up letting Fred go. And then Corey stepped into that role, which is what he wanted, right. And I think he kind of set some things up so that happened.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: And I think also we come to find out he's kind of in cahoots with right? Like, it kind of sounded like I was a little confused by this, but it kind of seemed like Bradley thought she walked in and said, I'm not coming back if you don't rehire Corey. And then they did. But then we sort of found out later on that Fred was like, corey should be my successor and give me all this money. And then he's maybe pulling some strings in the background. So he's like gone but not really gone. That kind of confused me.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yeah. Corey is an interesting guy.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Do you think he's hypomanic?Portia Pendleton, LCSW: He is something. He is so animated and constantly hyper and activated. I just want to know his routine off when he's not at work. We saw some of his exercise routine.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: When I saw that I was like, I think he's hypomanic constantly on the go. But explain that a little bit.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yeah.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: So when we think about hypomania, what we mean by that clinically is when you think about depression, we think about people who have clinical symptoms of depression for two weeks or more. That's where your mood is lower than your average baseline. We all have mood fluctuations over the course of our life, but when you're feeling depressed, your mood is way too low. Now, the flip side of that is something we call mania. This is what we see when you have something called bipolar disorder where not only do you have the depressive episodes, but then you also have the manic episodes where your mood is way too high, right? Like, you don't need sleep. You're talking a mile a minute. You have all these big grandiose ideas. You're really impulsive.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And people can tell.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: People can tell when you are fully manic. That's a psychiatric emergency. You need to go to the emergency room. A lot of times people end up getting hurt either because they're doing something really risky like skateboarding down a highway or something or because they're using substances or sex, gambling, spending money, things like that. There's something in between what we call euthymia, which is like a typical normal baseline mood. You still have fluctuations because you're human, but it's all within a controlled range of feelings. It never dips too low or too high. Mania is like the highest you ever get. Hypomania is kind of like halfway in between. And some people with hypomania function really well in society. Like maybe corey, right. Like, maybe he only needs 4 hours of sleep. Cool. He can get a lot more work done. Maybe he has boundless energy, but he's not like, talking way too fast or having really big ideas that are people with mania might write their memoirs on postit notes and put them all over their room, for example. He's not really behaving like that outside the norm. But sometimes people with hypomania are really successful and productive because they just don't need as much sleep, and they have more energy than the average person. He also could be abusing stimulants or something.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: He could be and sometimes I think there's that little edge or overlapping, also, potentially, of ADHD, just like, really hyperactive. You know, what if you have ADHD? Some of the symptoms with mania are not presen…

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Episode 38 - "Step Brothers" Sep 25, 2023

Show notes

Welcome back to Analyze Scripts, where a psychiatrist and a therapist analyze what Hollywood gets right and wrong about mental health. Today, we're analyzing one of Dr. Furey's favorite movies - the 2008 comedy "Step Brothers" starring Will Ferrell and John C. Reilly. In this lighthearted episode, we use the comedic depiction of two 40-something year-old men living with their parents to discuss failure to launch syndrome and common difficulties encountered when blending families. We also explore the depiction of an enabling vs dismissive parent, the thrapist-patient dynamics between Brennan and Denise, and the classic narcissistic traits embodied by evil older brother Derek. We hope you enjoy!InstagramTikTokWebsite[00:10] Dr. Katrina Furey: Hi, I'm Dr. Katrina Fury, a psychiatrist.[00:12] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And I'm Portia Pendleton, a licensed clinical social worker.[00:16] Dr. Katrina Furey: And this is Analyze Scripts, a podcast where two shrinks analyze the depiction of mental health in movies and TV shows.[00:23] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Our hope is that you learn some legit info about mental health while feeling like you're chatting with your girlfriends.[00:28] Dr. Katrina Furey: There is so much misinformation out there, and it drives us nuts.[00:32] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And if someday we pay off our student loans or land a sponsorship, like.[00:36] Dr. Katrina Furey: With a lay flat airline or a major beauty brand, even better.[00:39] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: So sit back, relax, grab some popcorn.[00:42] Dr. Katrina Furey: And your DSM Five and enjoy. Welcome back for another episode. I am personally thrilled to be talking about one of my favorite movies of all time, the 2008 smash hit Step Brothers. I feel like in rewatching it for this podcast, I didn't even need to. I know every single line of dialogue, but I still love it so much.[01:20] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I think my husband's favorite movie of all time.[01:23] Dr. Katrina Furey: Yes. This movie also happens to always be on every time I'm in a hotel on TBS or where they're censoring a lot of the dialogue. It's still funny.[01:34] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yeah. This movie is just, like, iconic. The cast is ridiculous. Will Ferrell, John C. Reilly, Adam Scott. We have Mary Steenbergen, who's also the mom and elf.[01:46] Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Yes.[01:46] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Which we're going to be will Ferrell. So it's just like I think he likes working with her. She likes working with him. It's just they're great.[01:53] Dr. Katrina Furey: I love it. Yeah.[01:54] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Her voice and her mannerisms, I just love.[01:57] Dr. Katrina Furey: She was so good in this role. Like, all the times when her and Richard Jenkins, who plays Jobak, like, when you can tell he's trying to lay down the law, and she's like, Robert thinks we agree. It's time for you to move, know. Or like, when he's so mad they destroyed his boat with the boats and host thing. And she's like, I am so upset that you two destroyed his boat. That being said, I thought you showed a lot of enthusiasm and inventiveness. And I was like, in some ways, you're so enabling them, but in other ways, that's so loving.[02:33] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: She reminds me a lot of the actress herself and the roles that she's playing reminds me of the wife in What About Bob?[02:43] Dr. Katrina Furey: Yes.[02:44] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: She plays similar roles. She has a very similar cadence.[02:48] Dr. Katrina Furey: The way she sort of like light, airy voice. I totally agree. Totally agree. And then we have Catherine Hahn as Alice, who is Adam Scott's wife. What do you think about the scene with them in the car with their children singing?[03:04] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I sing along every time. It is so funny. I think I sing this in the car sometimes with know, I'm not a great like, I can tell that I'm not good, so I have an ear.[03:17] Dr. Katrina Furey: And I know you're not the little boy's role.[03:20] Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: No.[03:20] Dr. Katrina Furey: You might be Catherine. I think I'm her.[03:22] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And someone can yell, flat.[03:24] Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Flat.[03:25] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: One $200 voice lessons a week. Offer this. And I was like, wow, that is so mean. So mean.[03:32] Dr. Katrina Furey: He is so mean to everyone. Right?[03:35] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Like, brutal, slurs aside. Like, mean.[03:44] Dr. Katrina Furey: Do you think he is a narcissist?[03:47] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I think that he is a not human person. I don't know. Yeah, I guess I'm trying to think of something else. I was even thinking of animals to compare him to. He's just so gross and obsessed with putting other people down and himself. And sometimes I think, too, I wonder if he is, because he's so homophobic.[04:11] Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Maybe he.[04:14] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Pushing something down.[04:15] Dr. Katrina Furey: Repressed energy.[04:16] Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Yeah.[04:16] Dr. Katrina Furey: To be clear, we are talking about Adam Scott's character, Derek, not Scott himself.[04:22] Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Right?[04:23] Dr. Katrina Furey: Right. Who I don't think is, like, this character at I thought, you know, again, this movie is so funny. It is a comedy, clearly.[04:32] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: So they're pushing they're pushing every character to the max.[04:36] Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Right.[04:36] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: So it's so ridiculous over the top.[04:39] Dr. Katrina Furey: And yet I still think displays some really interesting topics in a really accurate right. Like, I really think Derek meets a lot of criteria for narcissistic traits.[04:53] Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Right.[04:53] Dr. Katrina Furey: Like, he's constantly putting other people down to make himself feel better. I loved all the family dinners where he's, like, bragging about going fishing with Jay Z or whatever he's doing. And then by the end, they have to be like, okay, Derek, that's enough. They have to cue him, let other people know.[05:10] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: But then Robert is so enamored with.[05:15] Dr. Katrina Furey: Derek, which people can be, and his.[05:18] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Own son, Dale down in such a mean way that the stepmom Nancy has to tell him to stop.[05:28] Dr. Katrina Furey: But then also, Nancy also chimes in with Brendan has a mangina.[05:33] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I know, right?[05:35] Dr. Katrina Furey: But this is what these sorts of people can do. They can pull this out of you.[05:39] Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Right.[05:39] Dr. Katrina Furey: They can make you feel.[05:42] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: When she's yeah, like and then I joined in.[05:45] Dr. Katrina Furey: It's just like what? But the whole scene with Will Ferrell dressed like a pirate doing his dancing on the stage is just and the.[05:54] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Fact that he is so clearly like, a middle aged man, even.[05:58] Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Yeah.[05:58] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: They're playing, right? Like, you know, in real time. But, like, the flashback, it's, like, still.[06:04] Dr. Katrina Furey: This middle aged so funny. But that's what mean. Like, these sorts of little things. I'm like you're kind of hitting the nail on the head, though. You see Derek splitting the family, right. Even his new stepdad. It's really interesting. He's so mean to his wife and kids. You can tell they all have to be perfect. They're all there to play a role and fill his own need. Of course. He's a real estate agent on the side, right? I just have my license on the side. I had one supervisor once say that. I don't know if there's any data to back this up, and I don't want to offend our listeners who are real estate agents. But she said in her clinical experience. And she's been doing this for decades and decades. There's a lot of narcissism in real estate. And I was like, that's interesting. And she's like, yeah, if you think about it, part of their job is to form relationships quickly, often superficially, and to sell things. And I was like, that's interesting. Yeah, so I just thought for him, it tracked. And I just thought, even though this is so over the top, they did depict this. I don't even know if back in 2008 this was as much of a thing, but this whole notion of failure to launch.[07:18] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Right. Because that's a movie too, right?[07:21] Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: It is.[07:22] Dr. Katrina Furey: And even though there's like that new Jennifer Lawrence movie, it's kind of about it. Maybe I haven't seen it yet, or maybe it's just they want to prep their son for.[07:33] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Mean. Failure to Launch, I think is an interesting phenomenon that there's a lot of books out now and yes, like comedic movies as well, but it's really like.[07:44] Dr. Katrina Furey: This interesting cultural, societal thing that's happening.[07:48] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: It seems to be happening more to males than females with just like a anecdotally movies, books. It seems to be more about males that's true. Launch than females.[07:59] Dr. Katrina Furey: Actually, in every single movie we just mentioned, the quote unquote identified patient is a male.[08:05] Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Right.[08:05] Dr. Katrina Furey: And in this movie, they're both men.[08:08] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yeah. And I'm just curious what that's about. I wish I had read one of the books that I'm referencing now.[08:14] Dr. Katrina Furey: Well, we have full time jobs and we're watching a lot of content to do this. So again, if anyone wants to sponsor us, dear Media, feel free and we could really dive into the research.[08:25] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: So it happens when the term has been coined, when your adult children are not kind of leaving the home, having independence, able to support themselves financially, emotionally. And you see a lot of I think this is kind of just like the funny end of it. Like basement dwellers who are just kind of living at home. I'd say there also is a difference in my kind of opinion, in practice with today's current housing market and so many people returning home after college or just for whatever reason, after a couple of years, because they just cannot afford to live outside the home. So I'd say, like, if you're living at home and you are working however you are, whatever that looks like, whatever field you are in and contributing to the household in any way that your family is asking you to, and maybe they're not, and that's okay, but that feels different, really. Failure to launch.[09:21] Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Yeah.[09:21] Dr. Katrina Furey: I think that's a really important distinction to make. And I feel like you're right that there's just so much economic stress for young adults these days in terms of student loans and then housing market and wages and how do you get on your feet? So that, I feel like, is a difference, right? Like sort of living at home until you can launch, but like prepping for the launch and fostering independence along the way. Very different from what we see going on with Dale Brennan. Dale, yeah. Very different. Right?[09:57] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: So childlike. Right? Like so childlike.[10:00] Dr. Katrina Furey: Toddlers.[10:00] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Toddlers.[10:01] Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Toddlers.[10:01] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I was laughing with what they're eating. So, like chicken nuggets and French fries. A lot of ketchup, which is like a kid meal, right? Kids eat chicken nuggets and they really like ketchup.[10:11] Huff & Doback: Yes.[10:11] Dr. Katrina Furey: They just freaking love ketchup.[10:13] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: It's like the best condiment ever. It's how kids start learning about condiments. Then we move to a balsamic vinegar.[10:21] Dr. Katrina Furey: It's the gateway condiment. You got to be careful. It's a slippery slope getting started with that ketchup.[10:27] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yeah. So that was just funny, like in all ways, right? The movie is highlighting them as really just like children.[10:34] Dr. Katrina Furey: They're like into Shark Week. Like just every single thing dealing this drum know, just like being like, you can't come over here because this is like my area. Just like so childlike. And the way that Nancy talks to them is just like how I imagine or do talk to know where she's just you just couldn't hold the fart in or what happened there. I heard you interviewed together for that job. Or maybe take the long way home. Just too much.[11:08] Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Right?[11:08] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And I just imagine her being like that in real, you know, in this kind of bad way that we're going to get to with enabling. But I just think that she's so soft and kind and open that I just feel like that's her in real life.[11:24] Dr. Katrina Furey: Just like how everyone thinks Jennifer Aniston is who we think she is in real life. But then I'm like, what if they're like raging jerks, right? Could you imagine? What if there were all these blind items that turns out were all about Mary Steenberg? That would be shocking, right? She would tell you to F off, but in a really nice, weird way.[11:48] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Toned. Right?[11:49] Dr. Katrina Furey: Which is like worse, right? Like maybe even more dangerous than the people who are really in your face.[11:56] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Right? And it's funny because Robert seems to be irritated with Dale, but it's like you still made him this way, right? And so he gets mad more easily or frustrated with them more. And it's like but you both still have 40 year old sons living with you who are not doing anything. And they both only eat chicken nuggets. They both have their own space. They both are childlike.[12:22] Dr. Katrina Furey: They both wear chewbacca masks.[12:24] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Why are you now getting mad? I get you're probably been frustrated for years, but it's funny, like his response.[12:30] Dr. Katrina Furey: All of a sudden I get the sense that he checked out, right? Like that he's frustrated and he just threw his hands up and was like, I give up. Whereas she is just taking care of Brennan for her own needs, wants to be a mom, right. And is really struggling with letting him go.[12:51] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: So more like codependence there. She needs him.[12:54] Dr. Katrina Furey: Even though right. We do see in this movie a lot of very quick and heavy romantic connections, right? Like Robert and Nancy, like, right away lock eyes at that cochlear implement conference.[13:11] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I love to know what she's doing there.[13:13] Dr. Katrina Furey: I was like, I wonder if she's like a rep, like a sales rep of some kind. That's the vibe.[13:19] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I was she's not called Doctor and he is.[13:23] Dr. Katrina Furey: He's the doctor.[13:24] Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Right.[13:24] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: That's like, the point.[13:25] Dr. Katrina Furey: I love Dale wanting to go into family business.[13:29] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yeah.[13:30] Dr. Katrina Furey: And he's like, Trust me, I've tried to tell him that's not how it works, but it's just so funny. Like, at the beginning, they're being intimate and then she tells him, she's like, I have to get this off my chest. And then he's lik…

Full show notes at the publisher

Episode 37 - "The Bear" Season 1 Sep 18, 2023

Show notes

Welcome back to Analyze Scripts, where a psychiatrist and a therapist analyze what Hollywood gets right and wrong about mental health. Today, we are analyzing "The Bear" season 1. We meet the chefs and other restaurant staff this season and WOW, was anyone else's heart racing? We root for Carmy and the restaurant to be successful but see poor interpersonal skills, trauma, grief and trust issues impact everyone. Mikey's story line is tragic and unfortunately a common reality when mental health issues combine with substance abuse and financial troubles. Be sure to watch this show with some snacks, we hope you enjoy!InstagramTikTokWebsiteDr. Katrina Furey, MD: Hi, I'm Dr. Katrina Fieri, a psychiatrist.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And I'm Portia Pendleton, a licensed clinical social worker.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: And this is Analyze Scripts, a podcast where two shrinks analyze the depiction of mental health in movies and TV shows.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Our hope is that you learn some legit info about mental health while feeling like you're chatting with your girlfriends.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: There is so much misinformation out there, and it drives us nuts.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And if someday we pay off our student loans or land a sponsorship, like.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: With a lay flat airline or a major beauty brand, even better.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: So sit back, relax, grab some popcorn.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: And your DSM Five and enjoy. We get started. We just wanted to include a trigger warning for this episode. This episode could include discussion about some themes and topics that might be upsetting, including, but not limited to things like substance abuse, suicide, self harm, disordered, eating, and harassment and assault. So if any of those topics are too upsetting, we totally get it. Please feel free to skip this episode and join us next week. Otherwise, we hope you enjoyed.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Hi. So we are back again with another episode, and we are going to refer to each other today as, like, yes.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Drink, yes shrink, yes, chef, cousin, cousin.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Whatever kind of comes to mind. We're not going to be swearing and putting each other down.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Hopefully not kind of abusive, which we.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: See a lot in the show. The Bear, which you're coming today. Season one, kind of blew up recently over the summer. I definitely had not heard about it last year.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: I hadn't really either.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: It was all over, like, TikTok. A couple months ago, Jeremy Allen White.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Is all in the news because he got a divorce. And I don't know all the details about it, but it seems to be, like a hot.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yeah, yeah. People really like. So what how do you want to start talking about this? First, I would like to say that my blood pressure was so high, I'm making this up.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Okay. You weren't, like, checking it?Portia Pendleton, LCSW: No. Watching some of these episodes, this level of stress that I was feeling, and my heart was racing, I was like, I feel like I'm back in a restaurant, and I'm not. Okay.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Yeah, you worked in a restaurant too at some point, right? Yeah, I did too. Only for, like, six months. Like, in between college and med school, I took a year off to apply, and it was really stressful. I worked in a Mexican restaurant. It's closed now, unfortunately, one of the owners embezzled money and went to federal prison. Fortunately. But I was trying to get out of this other job, and so when I applied, I said I was available for all shifts. So I got all the lunch shifts and made, like, no money, and I would have to come in early and clean, like, literally move the heavy tables, clean the windows. It was, like, a lot of hard work.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: It's like, labor, labor, physical labor.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: I lost a lot of weight because you're, like, running around all day. And I'll never forget my last day was Cinco de Mayo. I was like, I have to work Cinco de Mayo. Right? I'll never forget. The floor was, like, so sticky with tequila. It was a good restaurant. The food was really good. But at the pre shift meeting, one of my coworkers was like, hey, guys, I got Adderalls. Does anyone want one? And all these people took Adderall. And I was like, I'm good. I'll be okay. I don't know. It really shocked me. But then I guess in watching this show, and I don't know if in your training, you learned that there's a lot of mental health issues in the restaurant industry. Because I learned that.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yeah. I mean, I think it seems like and of course, we're generalizing here, but in my experience, and even hearing from clients who work in the restaurant industry, there is so much substance use.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Yes.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And with that often comes mental health issues. I'm just curious about who ends up in the restaurant industry. Right. I think you have to be really personable. You're really friendly, energetic. Energetic, I would say. And I think this is like, a little bit of just like anecdotal information. I feel like it's often kind of you have a little bit of ADHD. You're good, right? You can BOP brunch the 100% environment for you because it's so stimulating and.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: It'S so quick, fast moving. I totally agree. And I think a lot of young people, I think, work in restaurants or bars or things like that when you're younger. But then I think you're right that there is a lot of substance use. I think there's, like, erratic hours does.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Not help mental health, sleep. And then I think people often might, in that example that you provided, will take something to help stay up.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: And then oftentimes, once the restaurant closes, shifts over, I think people go out for drinks. Or then there's, like, substance use with downers, kind of. I think, like we said, it is really hard work. Like, physically demanding. I think the pay can be good, right?Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Depends.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Depends. It fluctuates, and you don't really get benefits, so there's a lot of stress. It's certainly like, when we think about what are, like, risk factors, I guess, for mental health conditions, there's a lot of environmental risk factors just right there. And then you're also dealing with people who are hard to deal with. Right? Like, you have demanding customers, people complaining you're not doing it fast enough. There's a mistake. I can't imagine, right? Like, just all the complaints you have to deal with in a personable, happy way.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And now I always think about everyone having sensitivities or allergies right to foods and how many requests we're making. I do make one request, but I'm just thinking about how complicated things are now. Everyone at a table could be like, okay. And I've been at a table before where it's like, every single person has a something, and I'm just like, oh, man, it's just so much more work.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Than just accommodating like, a regular taco salad.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: It's like, no cheese on this one, no meat on this one. We have to leave out the taco because it's corn based so much. It's a lot, and I think the pressure for certain people gets to them, and I think that's why we see.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Also just, like, a lot of abuse yes.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: With the hierarchy within the kitchen, and it can get really ugly.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Yeah. So when I started watching the Bear preparing for this, unfortunately, Hulu just, like, auto played the last episode of season two. I didn't get through the whole thing. We got through maybe the, like, ten or 15. No, I know. And then we're watching it, and I'm like, am I supposed to understand who these characters are and how they relate? And then all of a sudden, my husband noticed, and I was like it.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Was like, s two, like, episode ten or something.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: I was like, oh. So I felt like I had, like, a preview. Not in a great way, but then it's like, I don't think it's going to spoil all that much. So then we restarted it. But even in season one, we sort of see these flashbacks of Carme right. Played by Jeremy Allen White, the main character who worked in a really fancy like, they kept saying, the best restaurant in the world, and we saw Joel McHale. I was surprised to see in, like, a dramatic role. Do you know who Joel McHale is? Did you ever watch The Soup? No. Okay. Again, I'm older than you, but I.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Know I didn't like.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: It.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I don't love him. No offense. That's okay to him. If you're listening, that's okay.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Does he have any weird outcomes?Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I just don't think he's funny. No. To me. And maybe he is now, but I remembering watching The Soup and being like, not your thing.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: That's fine, but yeah, dark, like, abusive. And it was very hierarchical, like, almost like the military. It kind of reminded me of and you have to go up the chain and sort of that kind of thing. In prepping for this episode, I did some quick research, and it does seem like the restaurant industry hospitality has very high rates of depression, anxiety, substance abuse, and harassment, which I think makes sense, like, if you've ever worked in one. And then I think this show really accurately portrays that. Like, you were saying in watching it, your heart rate is high, your blood pressure is high, you feel stressed, and you're like, God, it is a lot. It's a lot.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I mean, when they had finally implemented the to go, oh, my gosh, and they didn't notice that they had done, like, preorder selection, and it was just, like, coming out of the machine. I was just I felt like, I mean, a good acting, good storyline sucked me in. I don't know if it's because I can, like, I have some restaurant experience, but I was just like it's like a trauma response. So some people freeze, some people flee, and other people freak out and fight. Whoa.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Interesting to see everyone's individual response. And carmi just freaked. Like, it was almost I felt like his explosion of pent up emotion. Right. I feel like his sister Sugar had been saying, you're not expressing things. And he wasn't really he was really holding it in, and then it just all exploded. Like, he couldn't take it anymore. I was really proud of Sydney and Marcus for walking away and being like, we don't tolerate know I didn't see that coming, but I was really proud of them for doing that.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And I think what I thought was interesting was when we see Carme working at that Michelin star restaurant, and he's being right, like, verbally berated saying all these horrible things to him. I thought it was so interesting because Sydney and, like, have a similar experience with working at higher end places. They know, yes, chef. Behind you, chef, all that stuff. So Sydney, in one of the later episodes when she is accidentally a stabs richie in the behind. But also, you see her absolutely berating him. Right. She's like, you're a loser, your kid, your partner. And I think for her, that almost felt like she was so horrified, almost, that that's how she had become in this place. Right. Because her and Carmen talked about how horrible that was, and then she did it, and it's like, place brought it out of her. Right.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: It's like the abuse becomes the abuser, which we see. I'm thinking more along the lines of children who grew up in abusive environments and then sort of take on those behaviors in adulthood. It's reminding me of that. Yeah. And I feel like she couldn't it was really sad. And when she was sitting there at the lockers, and he was like, are you okay, chef? And she's just like, no. And it's like, no, you're not. You're right. And she has to walk away. And I think you're right. I think it was a combo of Carmen berating her, but then her doing that too.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Right. And losing it, and right. They are these experts, and she's holding the knife right out. No intention right.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Of like yeah.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: First she's waving around, but then she's pointing it out, and he just, like, turns like, you don't ever walk with a knife pointing out. That stuff can happen.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Exactly. Right.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And you can stab someone in the a fatty tissue place where it's, like, less right, right. Whoa.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: I know.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yeah.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: And so, again, it's just like, how did all that come to be? Was it, like, stress? Was it trauma? Probably a mix of everything. Also, like, Richie I don't like him. There have been very few characters so far in all the shows and movies we've watched, which is quite a bit by now, where I really don't like them. Like, the whole time I'm watching it, I'm trying to find something redeeming. And since I did see the first.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Ten minutes of the final episode of.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Season two, and I see what role he assumes and he's behaving a little differently, spoiler alert. It's not much of a spoiler, but still, I kept trying to find something redeeming about him, and I had a really hard time. What about you?Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I think that I really did not like him until the last episode, and I wouldn't even say I like him. I feel like I just have empathy for him. I feel sorry for him.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Why? That's where I struggled.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I feel like he is so broken.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Yeah.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And I want to know nothing story. Maybe we learn it because they said in season two read an article that was like, season two gets right with the only thing that season one got wrong, which is like, there was no backstories for anyone. We didn't know anything about anyone. And so I'm wondering if we get his because I'd be so curious.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: It just seems like he's.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And why he was really hearing what Sydney was saying when she's calling him a loser.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: I feel like he feels like he's.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: A loser, and he's a loser in every way. And then he talks about his daughter saying to his ex or her mom, right. Like, he's bad news, Richie or something.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: I just feel like that's more.Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I feel bad. I don't like him. I don't want to be his friend by any means. I don't want him to be around him. But I just feel sorry for yeah. Yeah.Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: I kept wanting to feel sorry for him and trying to access that empathy, but I had a really hard time. And again, I hear what you're like. It seems like before Mikey died by suicide, richie was, like, the head guy, like, maybe the manager, or like, he was, like, running the show. And then I think to have Carme and Sydney come in, like, out of Sydney, a younger girl, a younger black girl, which, again, maybe that's not intentionally getting under Richie's skin, but maybe it is. We don't really know yet. But aga…

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Episode 36 - "Jury Duty" Sep 11, 2023

Show notes

Welcome back to Analyze Scripts, where a psychiatrist and a therapist analyze what Hollywood gets right and wrong about mental health. Today, we're diving in to analzye the Amazon Freevee breakout hit comedy "Jury Duty." We sincerely enjoyed how funny this show was and how much planning went into it. AND YET, IS RONALD GLADDEN OKAY?!? As mental health professionals, we couldn't help but think about the ethical considerations of throwing someone into a real life "Truman Show" situation. We can see how something like this could totally backfire if there were a history of trauma or genetic predisposition to psychosis. It seems like Ronald is doing okay from what we can find online, but we're quite concerned about him! RONALD IF YOU'RE READING THIS - PLEASE SEND AN SOS IF YOU NEED HELP! ALSO WE'D LOVE TO HAVE YOU ON THE PODCAST! We hope you enjoy!InstagramTikTokWebsite[00:10] Dr. Katrina Furey: Hi, I'm Dr. Katrina Furey, a psychiatrist.[00:12] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And I'm Portia Pendleton, a licensed clinical social worker.[00:16] Dr. Katrina Furey: And this is Analyze Scripts, a podcast where two shrinks analyze the depiction of mental health in movies and TV shows.[00:23] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Our hope is that you learn some legit info about mental health while feeling like you're chatting with your girlfriends.[00:28] Dr. Katrina Furey: There is so much misinformation out there, and it drives us nuts.[00:32] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And if someday we pay off our student loans or land a sponsorship, like.[00:36] Dr. Katrina Furey: With a lay flat airline or a major beauty brand, even better.[00:39] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: So sit back, relax, grab some popcorn.[00:42] Dr. Katrina Furey: And your DSM Five and enjoy. Welcome back to another episode of Analyze Scripts. Today we are throwing a curveball at you, and we are talking about a funny little show on Amazon's freebie called Jury Duty. Have you heard of it? Have you heard of it? I hope the answer is yes, because it's hilarious.[01:10] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Wild show that I obviously was very I missed a couple things when I was watching it. I had a very different experience.[01:20] Dr. Katrina Furey: So, Portia, please share with the class.[01:22] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: So I must have missed the scene, the word, the moment, and maybe it was minutes, but I don't know what I was doing where at the beginning of every episode that Ronald was the one who was real. So I had no idea. I thought that I didn't find out until he was literally called up and the judge told him.[01:44] Dr. Katrina Furey: So you found out along with him.[01:45] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: In a way.[01:46] Dr. Katrina Furey: You were watching it along for the ride.[01:48] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: It was wild. I knew it was a documentary. I thought it was like you were.[01:55] Dr. Katrina Furey: Watching it like a murder mystery, like trying to figure out which one's the real person. But everyone else was watching it and caught the big message in black and white at the beginning of the first episode and at the beginning of every.[02:08] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Other episode, because I was fast forwarding, like, maybe preview and maybe like, yeah, I've seen that already.[02:15] Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah, that says, like, everyone's an actor except Ronald.[02:17] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I saw every view, the bold letters, and then except one person.[02:23] Dr. Katrina Furey: See, ronald.[02:24] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: The word ronald. So I had a wonderful time watching.[02:27] Dr. Katrina Furey: This show, trying to figure out who was the real person.[02:31] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I really want to rewatch it because now that I know that, which is.[02:36] Dr. Katrina Furey: The last episode when they're so funny.[02:38] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Showing him all the things, I was like, how on earth did this person think this was all real when this was so ridiculous? And he said, right, a lot of times, said, this is like a reality TV show. Like, this is insane.[02:56] Dr. Katrina Furey: Oh, my God. So before you figured out it was Ronald, did you think someone else was the real person?[03:02] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: No. Maybe I knew it wasn't the plaintiff or the defendant, but I don't know what I was thinking.[03:10] Dr. Katrina Furey: I think I was just, like, watching.[03:10] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I was trying to watch it fast. It was very reminding me of The Office with the cuts and how it was a documentary, almost, which was right. I laughed out loud. My husband does not like The Office at all. Or like Parks and Rec. He doesn't like that vibe at all. And I think he would. I'm always like, you have to watch season one. You have to get into it and get to the characters. Because I get the first episode of.[03:36] Dr. Katrina Furey: The Office I watched.[03:37] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I didn't like, but this was so funny right away.[03:42] Dr. Katrina Furey: But I laughed out loud when you told me you missed that it was Ronald. The whole I'm also kind of jealous. I wish I had watched it. Trying to figure out who was the mole, like, who was the real person who's on The Truman Show, right? It's so funny to me for.[04:01] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I really don't know how that happened.[04:03] Dr. Katrina Furey: I really find myself wondering if he thought Todd was the real person, the.[04:08] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Inventor, I think, just because I was.[04:10] Dr. Katrina Furey: Like, there's no way.[04:12] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yeah, but maybe like I don't know. I really wasn't thinking about it a lot. I was just, like, laughing at how absurd everything was.[04:24] Dr. Katrina Furey: Absurd is a great word. So, again, if you haven't watched this yet, please do. It's so funny. And it's a quick watch. It's funny, it's enjoyable, it's lighthearted, it'll make you laugh at the end of a long day. It got nominated for four Emmys, which I think surprised everyone, maybe, especially James Marston, who got nominated for an Emmy. He cracked me up, right? Like, just such a perfect portrayal of what we think ****** actors would be. Even when they're know at the beginning trying to select the jury, and they're asking him, have you ever served on a jury? He's like, yeah, I can.[05:03] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Judge is like, what?[05:06] Dr. Katrina Furey: Oh, no. He thinks everyone knows him. And they kind of do, but they don't. I forgot he was in the notebook. I didn't remember that.[05:13] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Right?[05:14] Dr. Katrina Furey: You just think of Ryan Gosling. It's so funny. And I loved how Sonic the Hedgehog kept coming up. You probably haven't seen that movie Portia, but I have. It's like the worst movie ever. And it's so long. It's like 3 hours long. But he's in it. Jim Carrey's in it. So it I was like, Love promise.[05:32] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yeah, right?[05:33] Dr. Katrina Furey: Kids love it. But for like, it's like nails out chocolate. It's so long and it's just not that good. But kids love it's. A blockbuster hit. But it was so funny how they were talking about Sonic.[05:48] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And Ronald. It was so funny, him playing. He's so nice.[05:56] Dr. Katrina Furey: So nice.[05:57] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: That's what everyone just kept saying. They thought that he would be mad. I liked how they referred to him as hero on the script. And so when James was mad at him know, from the early on, and then he brings the cake in and it was like it was really important that Ronald and him repair yeah, just.[06:15] Dr. Katrina Furey: Like at the birthday party for Ross when James, I don't want this party. And everyone's like, It's not for you. Oh. I loved, I guess, in the final episode, seeing all the behind the scenes stuff and how it was almost like a choose your own adventure, like, okay, if he reacts this way, we're going to do this, and blah, blah, blah.[06:33] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And then high fiving, like when he would do something or I loved the fact that they could not believe that he took the bait from Noah first episode asking, how do I get out of this? And that he said, which is like, a ha ha, funny known thing, like, to say something horrible, right, to get off jury duty. I'm a racist. I'm a like, it's like, you have to see this. Unbelievable does. And they're all, like, dying in the.[07:03] Dr. Katrina Furey: Back because he says and then Noah.[07:06] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Obviously is acting, but then says it to try to get out of it. And you see Ronald looking around.[07:16] Dr. Katrina Furey: When they all have to be sequestered. And then James Marsden's like, oh, you know, I got this cop I'm going to pay to stay with me so I don't have to go with you guys. And it's like, his fault. Oh, my God. I just can't. I just can't. I mean, I think all along the way, the whole thing is like, how did he not figure it out? But it seems like it was really well done. And maybe Ronald, I mean, he does just seem like a really nice person. So then it's like, did anyone feel bad that we were doing this to thought? I felt kind of weird at the end. In the final episode, when they're revealing it to him that Ronald looks shocked and his whole world has been turned upside down, which it has been, but then everyone around him is, like, smiling and high fiving and like, ha. Wasn't that funny? And we did it, guys, and just a lot of camaraderie. But then that was weird to me.[08:13] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: It was. I think the $100,000 needed to make it sweet, right? If they were just like, ha ha, jokes on you. Bye. See you. But I think it's like you're being paid not off you're being paid off to have tolerated this. But then it's experiment, a social experiment.[08:33] Dr. Katrina Furey: That's what it is. And that's where I was like, how could they do this legally? When we do scientific experiments, you need informed consent. And I would imagine when you're agreeing to be in a documentary, you sign paperwork.[08:49] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And maybe it wasn't in there, as in, like, it explicitly said, but I'm sure there was language in probably vague enough.[08:57] Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah, but then it's so clear that you're tricking him. That's the whole point. So they also had to make sure he didn't get really mad at them because it's also like, what, two weeks of your life away from your family and your job and everything, and I don't know. How does it sit with you? The psychological side to me is like, how did they get away with this?[09:23] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I don't know. Which is so important? I mean, they said right, out of 2500 people who applied, they picked him. And I'm wondering if there was any psychological evaluation or person kind of helping that, because I think A, you needed to pick someone who would be good on a show.[09:45] Dr. Katrina Furey: Right. But B, I feel like you also.[09:47] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Had to pick someone who could take it.[09:49] Dr. Katrina Furey: Right.[09:49] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And how do you know? I just think that's interesting, like, how they landed on him specifically, and they picked right? I know. So all of the actors were just shocked at how kind he was at times and how helpful and nice and stepping up and doing things he didn't want to do. He didn't want to be the four person he knew that no one else. So he did. It was just, I think, really interesting and maybe what you're alluding to in a messed up way, but how Ronald was put in this environment and then manipulated and rose to the occasion as this amazing person and could it also have gone a different way?[10:30] Dr. Katrina Furey: Totally. And they still would have aired it, right? Like, if it had come out that he was, like, a major *******, they still would have aired it. Right. And then it's like, Whoa, I don't know. It's a real life Truman Show. And I'm just like, Good call.[10:44] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yeah.[10:45] Dr. Katrina Furey: Real life Truman Show. And also potentially psychologically damaging. It totally messes with your view of reality and your safety. And I was reading somewhere, I heard on some podcast or something that he was kind of paranoid afterwards and kept calling the producer someone to be like, are you sure it's still seriously, is he okay? Ronald, if you're out there listening, send an SOS. Send me a Morse code signal. Like, Are you okay? Do you need some help? I hope he's processing this. I'm really worried for him. I know. What if he had some trauma history or something that this reactivated? Did they screen for that and rule that out? Or was it just a random Craigslist ad they picked for?[11:37] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I, you know, certainly didn't think about it to this degree. And I'm glad that we are now talking about it because yeah, of course you're paranoid after everyone was lying to you. Literally everyone.[11:53] Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah. I feel like they tried to wrap it up by showing pictures of them hanging out after the fact, but then it's like, does he trust that they're friends or is it still going on? I feel like in the wrong hands, he could have had a psychotic break or something.[12:11] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Right.[12:11] Dr. Katrina Furey: Because your version of reality is not what's actually happening to you. That's, like, super messed up. Or he could have gotten really angry, or he might sue them. Maybe he will still I don't know.[12:23] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I don't know. These are excellent questions.[12:28] Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah, I'm just ronald, if you're listening, we'd love to have you on the show and ask you all these questions. And also, I hope you're okay.[12:34] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yeah. And now that I'm thinking about sorry.[12:38] Dr. Katrina Furey: To be such a dark cloud.[12:40] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I'm just, like, really worried about yeah, that interestingly. Did not cross my mind.[12:45] Dr. Katrina Furey: Maybe because you didn't know it was him the whole time. Yeah, that's a good point. Some distance. Whereas I'm watching, like, oh, my God. He's really forming what he thinks are, like, genuine connections. He is, like, a really nice person. He's really trying to figure out the case.[13:02] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: He's really trying to figure out that they said in that last episode, because they said that they had to come up with so many things so quickly based on his questions and being an interest in being like, well, this doesn't make sense.[13:16] Dr. Katrina Furey: Right? He's taking the job of juror super seriously. Which it's like, you hope people do, but then you're kind of surprised people do, especially with a case like this.[13:26] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Now that you're saying this, I have a good example of also feeling icky about the manipulation. So when in the last episode, they're showing him even the day one room when they're all sitting there and they go say, we left four seats open, so we had four opportunities and rehearsed four scenarios of where you would go first. And that's weird. That makes weird.[13:49] Dr. Katrina Furey: It all makes you feel weird. Exactly. It was so thoughtful.[13:55] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And they were getting calculated at Margaritaville, right? If he drank, they could al…

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"The Morning Show" Season 1 Sep 04, 2023

Show notes

Welcome back to Analyze Scripts, where a psychiatrist and a therapist analyze what Hollywood gets right and wrong about mental health. Today, we are analyzing season one of "The Morning Show" on AppleTV+. This series stars an all-star cast including Jennifer Aniston, Reese Witherspoon, Steve Carell, Billy Crudup, Karen Pittman, Gugu Mbatha-Raw, and Mark Duplass, to name just a few. We examine this season's expert and thoughtful portrayl of sexual harassment and assault in the workplace by comparing and contrasting the complex power dynamics between Mitch and Hannah, Mitch and Alex, Mia and Mitch, and Yanko and Claire. We discuss that the "freeze" response is one of the most common reactions to trauma, and analyze how this may contribute to shame, guilt, and confusion experienced by victims (as well as broaded misunderstanding about sexual harrassment and assault). We also explore depictions of narcissistic personality traits (once again! seems like Americans can't get enough!), substance abuse, and grief. We really enjoyed this drama and hope you enjoy this episode!InstagramTikTokWebsite[00:10] Dr. Katrina Furey: Hi, I'm Dr. Katrina Fury, a psychiatrist.[00:12] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And I'm Portia Pendleton, a licensed clinical social worker.[00:16] Dr. Katrina Furey: And this is Analyze Scripts, a podcast where two shrinks analyze the depiction of mental health in movies and TV shows.[00:23] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Our hope is that you learn some legit info about mental health while feeling like you're chatting with your girlfriends.[00:28] Dr. Katrina Furey: There is so much misinformation out there and it drives us nuts.[00:32] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And if someday we pay off our student loans or land a sponsorship, like.[00:36] Dr. Katrina Furey: With a lay flat airline or a major beauty brand, even better.[00:39] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: So sit back, relax, grab some popcorn.[00:42] Dr. Katrina Furey: And your DSM Five and enjoy. We get started. We just wanted to include a trigger warning for this episode. This episode could include discussion about some themes and topics that might be upsetting, including, but not limited to things like substance abuse, suicide, self harm, disordered, eating, and harassment and assault. So if any of those topics are too upsetting, we totally get it. Please feel free to skip this episode and join us next week. Otherwise, we hope you enjoy.[01:31] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Welcome back to another episode of Analyzed Grip.[01:34] Dr. Katrina Furey: Woohoo.[01:35] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: We're really excited to be talking about The Morning Show, season one for this episode. I feel a little late to the game as this came out in November of 2019, and I'm just discovering it and it was phenomenal.[01:48] Dr. Katrina Furey: It is phenomenal. It really is.[01:49] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Did you watch it earlier?[01:51] Dr. Katrina Furey: I watched it earlier, but only like, last year. I wasn't watching it in real time, but I did watch it. I feel like the three COVID years are kind of a blur, but I remember watching it and doing a puzzle and so I think that must have.[02:08] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Been during COVID Yeah, there were a lot of puzzles. I don't know if that's a trauma memory memory in a long time.[02:17] Dr. Katrina Furey: And I think it's just like, I can't that makes sense. But no, I mean, the Morning Show is such a good show, so we're excited to be covering seasons one and two ahead of the release of season three this fall. And of course, we'll be covering that as well, like, in real time. But gosh, what an all star cast. One thing I love about it is that a lot of the main know jennifer Aniston, Reese Witherspoon, Steve Carell are like, known comedic actors.[02:47] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Lighthearted.[02:49] Dr. Katrina Furey: Like, sure, they've all done some serious stuff here and there, but like, man, they all really pack a punch. And they're so good. And I love seeing them in these bigger, grittier, more complicated roles. I love seeing Jennifer aniston like this.[03:05] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I was shocked. We were talking a little bit about this before we started recording, and I have no idea how I was sleeping on the show. I think we kind of said it's like Apple's probably, unfortunately, like one of the last streaming services people think of.[03:25] Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah, it's like you get like Netflix, right? And then you probably get Hulu and.[03:29] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Then you're like, do I really want.[03:31] Dr. Katrina Furey: To pay for Apple or not? By the way, Apple, if you want to sponsor us, feel free. We love you. We're both paying. You know we love it.[03:37] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: The morning show.[03:38] Dr. Katrina Furey: They have a new beanie baby movie out. Yes.[03:41] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: With Sarah Snook. Yes.[03:43] Dr. Katrina Furey: And Zach Gallifinakis, which I read the book it's based on. Because obviously yes. I feel like that would be a fun one for us to cover. They have really good content. But I think you're right, Ted Lasso. But I think it's just not quite as popular for some reason. So maybe that's why. Did you have Apple back in 2019? No, probably not. It's just fabulous.[04:05] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: So I have not seen season two yet. I cut it off. I had to restrain my arm from hitting next because I was going to not sleep this week watching season two. And I was like, slow down. You don't need to watch it yet. But I'm like at the edge of my seat. What happened?[04:23] Dr. Katrina Furey: Yes. And I think when we started this podcast, Portia, we had some major shows in mind that we wanted to cover. You obviously. The morning show, obviously. White Lotus obviously. And then there's a couple more like, Devil in Ohio and Tell Me Lies, which we want to cover at some point. But I feel like we're getting close to the end of shows. I have to rewatch for the podcast, which I'm appreciating. So I have seen seasons one and two, but it is still so fascinating to rewatch. Like, even though I know what's coming, I miss little details the first time around. Like the button under the desk that shuts the like, somehow I missed that the first time I watched it. And even knowing the ending, like with Hannah rewatching, it is just really interesting to then see how do they portray that character's evolution. And I always wonder, do the actors know the ending when they get started filming, or do they not? And I bet it's different by show.[05:23] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I think it depends. And it's so funny that you said that because I just saw this morning that Sarah Snook read, like, the week of them filming the last episode. That tom wamscams. Spoiler alert for succession. Season four, pause becomes the succession. I read that, too.[05:44] Dr. Katrina Furey: I read that she was shocked and.[05:45] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I was just like, wow, she didn't know. I think they want some of that to be organic right. In their emotions of like right.[05:53] Dr. Katrina Furey: And also so fascinating.[05:55] Dr. Katrina Furey: Right.[05:55] Dr. Katrina Furey: Because then it's like she has portrayed this character all along, not knowing that's going to be the outcome. And that probably does influence how they portray the character. Right. It's so fascinating. Someday when our podcast is really big, I so hope we get to talk to the writers and stuff and just pick their brains, analyze them analyzing their work, and just make everyone uncomfortable by being super analyze.[06:20] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yeah. How did you get this so right?[06:22] Dr. Katrina Furey: Tell me about your childhood.[06:24] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Tell me about your mother. But we see Alex as a mother, as a partner at home, and she seems would you like to take it from here? As.[06:41] Dr. Katrina Furey: Again, Jennifer Aniston in a role like, as I was thinking about getting ready to record this episode. I was like, I feel like I think I know who Jennifer Aniston is, but I don't, obviously, right? But she is, like, America's sweetheart. I think we all think of her as doing yoga and drinking a green shake, but being really nice and like a girl's girl and having some dogs that she takes really good care of, right? And just like, an all around good person, right? Doesn't cheat on her taxes, eats healthy. I have no idea if that's true. What if this is her? Right? We don't know.[07:22] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I know, but I just say that.[07:24] Dr. Katrina Furey: Because this was such a different role for her and she did a really good job, and I loved watching it a second time. And as we get toward the end, still wondering, is any of this genuine or is she just like a huge, raging narcissist, like, clinically a narcissist? What were your thoughts?[07:47] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I think I was back and forth. And as we often wonder, was that intentional? Was it intentional in writing or did she her acting just kind of come up with that organically? Because I think back and forth, I really was rooting for her or felt sorry for her. And then the next moment, I was furious with her. The next moment I was like, you're terrible. So I don't know. I think where I left off at the end of season one, I was really proud of her. It seemed like she finally pulled the wool from her eyes, which maybe she put there intentionally or not. I think that was the question. And decided to maybe get fired. I don't know if she also, though, right, sensed the sinking ship and decided to be on, quote unquote, the right side.[08:37] Dr. Katrina Furey: I don't know exactly. I don't know either. And I think that's fascinating and probably exactly where we're supposed to end up. And Jennifer Aniston did such a stellar job in this role and all the writers and everyone in sort of crafting her character, right? So to sort of back up, if you haven't watched season one of the morning show, first of all, go watch it. Second of all, the main plot is know there's these two news anchors on the major morning show in New York City. Mitch Kessler, played by Steve Carell, and Alex Levy, played by Jennifer Aniston. And the show starts with Mitch, Steve Carell's character, getting fired for sexual misconduct. And it's set in the era of MeToo, I believe. It started going into production in 2017. It was released in 2019 all around the time when the MeToo movement was really catching ground. On Twitter, on Instagram social media with actors and actresses, like, really coming forward about Harvey Weinstein, but then other major heavy hitters in Hollywood. We both did want to just make note that the MeToo movement and Hashtag had been around for far longer than that, about nine years ahead of that. Tarana Burke had started using it on her own social media back then, MySpace in 2006, to talk about her experiences as a sexual assault survivor and to really start pushing forward, like, congressional legislation and other sort of political and activist movements. And then it really took off when Alyssa Milano and other actors and actresses were using it. So that's like the setting where this is all created and interestingly right around the time Matt Lauer got fired for sexual misconduct, right? And I kept wondering, like, is this Matt Lauer or is it not?[10:31] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And, like, you know, I think the producers and writers or the showrunner had to deny it on record, but I think there's a lot of speculation that it's that whether or not there was specifics or, like, that's the general sense of what happened. And I think what I really actually liked about their depiction of the morning show is that they were covering all of the real Weinstein was there was that episode where Alex is watching a segment on him, and she's like, oh, what a pig, right? And then the fires, Malibu, like, all of that, and then the hired firefighters, all of those things were actually happening in real time. And I loved that component because it felt so real and sometimes not like I was watching a show. I was actually watching a morning show.[11:20] Dr. Katrina Furey: Right?[11:20] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And so I think some of that makes me think it is kind of based I feel like mean, we have.[11:27] Dr. Katrina Furey: No idea, so Matt Lauer, please don't sue us. This is all alleged, but it seems like I mean, I think we were reading some article this morning that the button in the dressing room is a thing that he had, like, how sick? How sick?[11:41] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: That gave me full body chills. And I can't remember who it was.[11:46] Dr. Katrina Furey: Mia.[11:46] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Mia who went in there, and she pushed the button and the door slammed, and I was it just it really.[11:53] Dr. Katrina Furey: Does send a chill down your spine. So, like we've talked about before, sexual misconduct, sexual assault. Sexual harassment is unfortunately incredibly common. The World Health Organization estimates that the prevalence of sexual violence affects a third of all women. Insane. Like, it's like insane because I'm not surprised, but it's also insane that it affects so many of us just walking around and it's just so normal, right? And I think when stuff like that is normalized and this is worldwide this isn't just in American culture, but worldwide when it is normalized, it's hard to discern if what you're experiencing and those inner icky feelings are because of that behavior or because of your own quote unquote sensitivity or overreaction. We have a tendency to say about women. And so much of this stuff is not overtly out there until it is.[13:00] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Right.[13:00] Dr. Katrina Furey: But there's usually, like, a long progression we see that depicted in this show.[13:05] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And there were some I read a couple of articles and comments that were unhappy about that. There was some criticism on some of the grayness that the morning show took with kind of how it landed. And I think from my perspective, as someone who works with people who have experienced this, I'm torn, because on the one hand, it's like I think they did a really good job of showing the grayness. That makes it so hard for someone who experienced it to delineate, like, wait, did that really happen? And was it really sexual assault or not know? And then people around you also being kind of, like, confused or but because I think they wanted it to be.[13:52] Dr. Katrina Furey: Really black and white, especially with Hannah.[13:55] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: With Hannah. And I think, like, it was intentionally not her getting dragged into a bush by Mitch and she screamed because, again, as we talked about in earlier episodes, that's not common. That's actually more rare. It does absolutely happen. But I think they kind of hit the nail on the head.[14:17] Dr. Katrina Furey: This is what happened. Right.[14:21] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I don't know. I appreciated it, but I could also understand some of the criticism, just wanting.[14:27] Dr. Katrina Furey: To really be what's the criticism exactly?[14:33] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Kind of going back and forth right. With Hannah, quote, unquote, making the decision while after it was initiated without her consent to kind of go with it, as she says. She says that in the interview with Bradley that she kind of just decided to do it after obviously being distressed and not I think that they wanted it to be more clear so people who don't understand it would righ…

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