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    Arts

    What The Hell Is Michael Jamin Talking About?

    Michael Jamin has been a television writer/showrunner since 1996. He interviews professional writers, artists, and performers about living their creative lives, inspiring others to do the same.

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    Copyright: © Michael Jamin - All rights reserved.

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    Latest Episodes:
    051 - Q&A with Michael Jamin Part 6 Oct 19, 2022
    Show notes

    It's time for another Q&A with Michael Jamin. In this episode, we answer questions from Michael's social media followers and his online screenwriting course members. Tune in for some great thoughts and insights about Screenwriting.Script NotesMichael's Online Screenwriting Course - https://michaeljamin.com/courseFree Screenwriting Lesson - https://michaeljamin.com/freeJoin My Watchlist - https://michaeljamin.com/watchlistPhil Hudson:You can get very distracted with a lot of different things. And there are a lot of people in LA who wanna be screenwriters. And when they say they wanna be screenwriters, I think that they like to put on and project that they are screenwriters. It's pretty low stakes. What do, what do you have to deliver? No one wants to read your script as it is. And so I'm working on the screenplay, I've been working on that thing, and it just goes on and on, and no one's gonna question it. Oh, he's a writer. You know, writers have their own thing. It's ethereal. There's, you know, I think what you showcase on your social media and definitely in the course is that the, there's a producer. You have to be a producer, or actually you have to be a professional. And the professional works every single day. They show up, they put in the time they put out work, they finish things, they move on. And those are the people who make progress.Michael Jamin:You're listening to Screenwriters. Need to Hear This with Michael Jamin. Hey, everybody, welcome back. I'm Michael Jamin, and I'm here with Phil Hudson. He's joining us again. Welcome back, Phil.Phil Hudson:I'm back. Thank you for having Me.Michael Jamin:He's welcome back. And today we're doing a q and a episode. You guys sent in your questions, so we're gonna try to answer them as best as we can. And that's it, Phil. Exciting stuff. What do you, is <laugh>, what do you hit? Hit us up, Phil, take us in.Phil Hudson:Sounds good. I, I mean, just so everyone knows, these questions are pulled from Instagram. We put up a tile, it's just, just a logo for the podcast, and we invite people to ask questions there. So if you're not following Michael on Instagram at Michael Jam Ryder, you can go there. And every couple weeks we put that tile up so people can leave their questions there that you're not answering elsewhere. And we got some good ones. I think thisMichael Jamin:Oh, why you mention that before we dump, jump into that, by the way. So, yeah, I'm, I'm doing a show in Boston and November 12th and 13th. So if you're in the Boston era and you wanna hear this, go to michael jam.com/live and you'll get more information on that and I'll, I'll plug it at the ending one one more time, but Okay. Phil, hit us with thosePhil Hudson:Questions. Sounds good. First question is a question that was asked during our last Q and a, but it was asked on YouTube, so I missed it. This is from Christina m she's in your screenwriting class. Oh, and I'm paraphrasing the question here. She asked it a couple different ways. Effectively, she said, We see heroes of the writing world like Hemingway, who who used alcohol as a writer's fuel, and people like Jordan Peel Oakley discuss using marijuana in the creative process. What role does out alcohol or other substances play in the creative process?Michael Jamin:<Laugh>, I, for me, none. I, I mean, it would, anything like that would put me to sleep. I've never been on in a writer's room where people were smoking or drinking. I, I not, you probably get sued for that now, but I don't know. I mean, if people do that on their own time, that's fine with them, but I don't know, to me it would, it wouldn't work. It wouldn't be a good combination.Phil Hudson:Got it. Yeah. For me, also, I abstain, so I have no feedback to give on this. I do know people who, who do participate, and it does help them. And, but I think that a lot of that is glorified and romanticized Yeah. As part of what a writer is. And I don't know that it translate directly to being a professional.Michael Jamin:Yeah, you're right. Yeah, I agree with that. Back in the day, I think there was talk, you know, there was a time, I think maybe in the early eighties where drug use was not was, it was almost common, or at least not a lot common, but it, you know, it did happen in writer's rooms, but not anymore.Phil Hudson:I have heard of unseen photos of some of the desks on some of the studio lots. And then there's a random little tray you pull out with a mirror on it. Yeah. And it's like, Oh, I wonder what this random tray was, what a mirrorMichael Jamin:Is for. And I've never witnessed that personally. So what do I know? But I'm not that old. I'm very young. Yeah,Phil Hudson:That's very young. Super young. All right, Christina, I hope that answered that question. Well for you Dave Crosman frequent flyer on the podcast, Crossman also member the course, he, he posted a question in the Instagram, There are grumblings at a lot of rooms, especially many rooms, can't, on streamers are upper level only, or very close to that, for emerging writers. What can they do to help their chances, chances at staffing, besides having a great script and experience as an assistant? Well,Michael Jamin:The, the problem he's talking about mini rooms, which I don't have any firsthand experience with. And that's gonna be probably what the next writer strike is over. And so, mini rooms are basically when the studios they, they don't pick a show up to series. They say, Well, think about it in the meantime, why don't you guys, here's a little bit of money. Why don't you guys write six episodes and here's a couple of bucks to put together some, a staff of writers. And everyone's getting paid a fraction of what they're already, what they should get paid. And then the studio, after reading these six episodes, decides what, what the fate of the show is, even though we're doing all, And I, again, I've never done this before, but know the writers are doing all that work. And honestly, I think it's, I think it's absolutely awful.And I think writers are desperate and they're hungry for work. And so that they're like, they're really put in a position where, what am I gonna do? What am I gonna say? No. And it's, it's really, it's, it's abusive. If the stu in my opinion, if the studio decides to make a show, they incur the risks. That's the, that's what happens when you're in business. If you open up a taco stand, you incur the risks of going outta business. And you buy all the taco ingredients up front. Crossman's asking, So are these rooms staffed with high level writers or low level writers? I don't even know. I don't know what the, the tendency is. And so he's asking, Well, how can a low level writer, writer get into an abusive relationship with the studio <laugh> as opposed to just a high level writer?I don't know.Hopefully these things end and, you know, hopefully they're resolved. Cause I don't feel like it's, it's, I don't think it's a, I think it's a joke. The fact that they're making writers do this. It's a cost coving cutting scenario. And no writer's happy with it because you're doing all the same amount of work. So he is saying, Well, how can a low level writer break in? I don't really know. I, I, I can tell this though, from from my other experiences on other shows that are not many rooms they tend to be staffing low level. It's the high level writers that are having a hard time getting work because the studio says, Well, we have room for six writers. We, let's hire some cheap ones, you know, know as opposed. And so that seems to be the trend, but, you know, it'll change tomorrow. And, and maybe it's different from show to show. So I really can't speak, I can't speak to this question too. Well, <laugh>Phil Hudson:Well, I, for me, what it sounds like is this highlights the importance of the wga. Yeah. Right. And, and the reason why having that union or that, that that guild represent all of the writers to arbitrate credits and stand up for unified bargaining rights. I mean, all of this stuff is very important. Yeah. And imagine doing this is just literally someone who's not represented by a mass of people. So you have the weight of the top talent in the world stepping out from the production machine. And we can see that that costs millions and millions of dollars to these companies. And that's why people strike. So to your point, I mean, I've heard of this on major studio films. I've heard it kind of down the level over the couple years. So it'd be interesting to see what happens over the next year or two. Yeah. This topic, I mean, yeah. Hopefully, I'm hearing there might be a strike next next year.Michael Jamin:It could happen. It could happen. You gotta threaten strike. You have to threaten strike. If you don't, there's no threat of strike. You have no negotiating power. So at the very least, so.Phil Hudson:Right, right. Well, awesome. Okay. And here's another question. I'm sure you've, you've answered many times on the podcast and in your q and as, but I think it's important to talk about again Yeah. Not spelt Dylan on Instagram. What contests do you recommend?Michael Jamin:From what I understand, I've never entered a contest, but I understand that there are a couple of big ones that the nickels competition is worth it. Maybe the Sundance, maybe the, maybe the blacklist competition. Right? They have onePhil Hudson:Yeah. Austin.Michael Jamin:Austin. So they're a handful of big ones. But if this, if you, I suspect the smaller ones that you've never heard of. Some people are trying to get me to do a contest. I'm like, I, I'm telling you, I just told you, you know, you don't want the small ones, <laugh>, you don't want me doing a contest. That's, that would be just a money making thing for me, and it wouldn't help you. Yeah. We,Phil Hudson:And we dove into this in one of our earlier podcasts, like maybe episode of five, I wanna say. But in that episode, we talked about my experience on the indie side of this. I did a lot of indie film festivals and volunteered at things like Sundance. A lot of those contests are being read by the Phil Hudson's in film school making decisions and determinations about screenplays. Yeah. And at the time, I felt like I had a good opinion about what a good script was, but you know, flash forward seven years, I had no clue. Yeah. I had no clue what a good script was. And I'm sure I'm gonna think the same thing about myself seven years from now. Right. So those are the people making those decisions about the fate of your script. And so, I don't know that I'd take a lot of cloud or respect from, from the opinions of those smaller filmMichael Jamin:Festivals. Someone asked me a question about coverage saying the same thing. Which coverage you guys coverage from three different is, I dunno, is that one of the questions you're gonna talk about? Also?Phil Hudson:It's one of the que it's again, something we've talked about before, but again, it came up and I think it's because your audience has grown pretty dramatically. So a lot of people have missed out on some of this early conversation we had almost a year ago. Yeah. and so, yeah, it's another one. Is it it worth getting script coverage?Michael Jamin:So this one guy I saw in particular, he's like, I got coverage from three different, I got, you know, and they're all, you know, contradictory. What do I do? Like, well, what did you expect? You're, who's giving you coverage? They don't know anything. They're not getting paid. Well, these are people who are not industry insiders. If they were, they wouldn't be reading script coverage. That's not, you know, so if you can find someone, this is what you get, what you pay for. If you can find someone who has maybe retired, who has a long credit history and now longer is working as a writer, if you can get them to read and, and give you coverage or, you know, script analysis, that would be worth it. But you have to do your due diligence and find out what their credits are and read some of their work. Read their work. If you don't like their work, why, why would you respect their opinion? And so, this is not the case with this guy. I'm sure he just I, I, here's a company. They said, here's some coverage. It's like, Okay, well they just took your money. So, but if you're gonna get coverage from somebody who knows who they're doing, it's gonna cost you. I mean, that's just how it is cuz you're paying for their expertise. Yeah.Phil Hudson:But I would interject and say that a lot of these other coverage services do cost people, and I don't think it's an exchange of value that merits the, the ticket price. Yeah. you know, when I was first diving into this stuff, 2008, 2009, that was a common thing in the threads to do is go get script coverage or have a script doctor read and give you notes. And you pay $500 to some of these people to do that. Yeah.Michael Jamin:And $500,Phil Hudson:What's the value? Wow. Yeah. What's the value there, man? Yeah. There you go. Michael. There's your next business venture. Just go read a bunch of scripts and pay peopleMichael Jamin:For Yeah. But I would, I would charge, you know, I'd trust more than $500. Cause you gotta think about it. It's gonna take you it's gonna take you a couple hours to read it and then type up notes and then you know, a conversation. And you're not paying for, Well, I'm not, I'm not in the business. But you know, of, of doing coverage, but you're paying for their years of doing this. You're not paying for, they're paying for their expertise. You're not paying for the, the, the two hours that they took to read it. Sure. But okay,Phil Hudson:Sure. So last October or November when we were recorded that podcast episode where we talked about this I had some friends from film school that were working at a pretty high level, well known script coverage service. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> that is now defunct. They are outta business. Oh, yeah. And those two friends do not work in Hollywood. They've never pa a day on a Hollywood set. They went to film school. They have the same degree I did. I've offered to get them jobs in the industry. They, they don't want to take them. They are doing that job. And honestly, they'd probably get paid more as a PA than they would doing that job. But I think it feels more like I'm a writer and instead of feeling like I'm a coffee fetcher Oh. But those guys are talking about starting their own thing now. And, and, you know, kudos to them for being entrepreneurs. But I just wonder how much value you can actually get from a service like that when that person's never set a down set. Yeah. Like a real set. Yeah.Michael Jamin:I, I don't, you know, be, do you have to do your due diligence as anything?Phil Hudson:Yep. Okay. All right. Now we'll give credit to that person when I find his question or their question down here. All right. At Dean Molina 37 15, what is a common way screenwriters get fired?Michael Jamin:Oh well, TV write, I, well, let's talk about TV writers. I would for, if you, if you're at a movie and you sell it, and a d…

    Full show notes at the publisher

    050 - Writer/Producer Dawn DeKeyser Oct 13, 2022
    Show notes

    Dawn DeKeyser on IMDB - https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0215245/Dawn's Website - https://www.dawndekeyser.comMichael's Online Screenwriting Course - https://michaeljamin.com/courseFree Screenwriting Lesson - https://michaeljamin.com/freeJoin My Watchlist - https://michaeljamin.com/watchlistTranscripts Are Auto-GeneratedMichael Jamin:I've made a number of posts about this that yeah, put yourself in a box. People are like, But I don't wanna be in a box. Put yourself in a box and you'll worry about getting outta the box later. But right now, you need to sell yourself as who? This is what you are. What do I do? That's right. That'sDawn DeKeyser:Right. And, and so many new writers are still struggling with that. And I said, People cannot help you if they don't know where to put you.Michael Jamin:You're listening to Screenwriters. Need to Hear This with Michael Jam. Hey everybody, this is Michael Jamin and you're listening to Screenwriters. Need to Hear this. Mike cohost Phil Hudson. He's got the day off again. He's doing some more work behind the scenes, but I'm here interviewing the amazingly talented Dawn de Kaiser. And, uh, Dawn, let me tell, tell everybody who you are. Let me also you, I need to remind you who you are.Dawn DeKeyser:Okay? Please doMichael Jamin:So. You got a long history of writing some pretty great shows. So first you started, I guess, on All American Girl. That was the Margaret Cho show you did Ink Ted Danson. Remember that one? I remember that one. News Radio you wrote a news radio you wrote on All right, already, which I did not know. I guess you wrote with Steven Engel on that one. I didn't know that. Conrad Bloom, you know, I went to, uh, I went to uh, college with him. We were friends in college, Mark Fostein. Um, but I haven't talked to him since. And then the Gina Davis show starring who, who started that? Uh, the Becker Becker again. Ted Danson. Let's listen to these credits you got there was amazing. Uh, just for kicks. Ugly Betty. We know Betty Lafa, Samantha, who if I were on that show, I would've been insufferable because someone would've said, Yeah, I I have an idea. What if Samantha goes on a date? And I would've been like, Samantha, who? That would've been my joke all every day. <laugh> Sign sealed. Oh, I skip on the client list. Sign sealed, delivered, hit Streak. The Gourmet Detective Summer. Love the Good Witch. Thank you, John. Thank you so much. Look at me. Are you impressed with how much work?Dawn DeKeyser:I am so impressed at. Who knew? I had no idea.Michael Jamin:You've done a lot of you. So anyway, I thank you so much for joining because, uh, is, we've never worked together. I always, even though I've known you for years, I always figured we would work together at some point. We just never did. And I blame you for that.Dawn DeKeyser:I, uh, I, blame me, we were on the same studio a lot. We were like, Yeah. Next to we had bungalows next to each other. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So that counts completely is, Yeah.Michael Jamin:Yeah. You were always a familiar face.Dawn DeKeyser:But before we start, can I curse?Michael Jamin:I don't Sure. Why, why would you, Is there something you wanna get off your chest? <laugh>?Dawn DeKeyser:Yeah. No, just that in the course of talking, it's gonna play a part of describing my path in life and Oh yeah. I don't think I could do it without some gods and fucks. SoMichael Jamin:Do it. Do it up.Dawn DeKeyser:Okay.Michael Jamin:Cause I we're getting to the truth again. So let's begin. How did you become? Where did you start? How did you get into sit? Everyone wants to know how people get into sitcom writing or TV writing. So how did you get in?Dawn DeKeyser:Yeah, so, and we all come from different angles on different paths. And in order to get to my TV days, I'll just say a little bit about my background. I was raised in a military family and my dad was a fighter pilot. And I grew up in a very great Sani kind of house. Um, I, I say I was the best son my dad ever had because I was tough and competitive. And I weighed 92 pounds and I was pious.Michael Jamin:Wait, did, were you the only child?Dawn DeKeyser:No, I had two sisters. So my mom, who was lovely, she would dress my sisters and I all in matching dresses, hats, gloves and shoes. And we would march out onto the tarmac and salute the F four phantoms as they landed.Michael Jamin:Wow. And so, and so you moved around the country then? Probably?Dawn DeKeyser:Yeah, I was born in Japan and I lived in England.Michael Jamin:Oh my. And so your Okay. Military brat. And then when you say Great Santa, cuz your dad was strict. Oh, <laugh> is Now, do you wanna start cursing now? What did you want to curse?Dawn DeKeyser:Um, well, let's see. He, we did have a flow chart of our chores on our bedrooms. And when we were, I think starting at three and four and our beds had to be made with hospital corners really. And we would have to stand in a line, add attention and get, you know, understand what our chores were gonna be for the day and for the week.Michael Jamin:Because you are so not that you're so, you know, kind of almost soft spoken, very gentle. You're very warm energy. You're not <laugh>, you're not a, you know, uh,Dawn DeKeyser:It's taken a long time to get this outta my system. So when I was in junior high, we moved from England to Texas and I went from riding English, um, horseback to competing in rodeos. And I then started racing sailboats. And by college I was on the varsity team. And, um, by the way, I paid my way through college, working two or three jobs each semester. And I started working when I was 15. That's a little Rob Cohen of me. Yeah.Michael Jamin:Wait, where did you go to school?Dawn DeKeyser:Um, which time? Uh, I went to, so in college I went to the University of Texas and I studied international business, Uhhuh. And then I dropped out of UT and moved to Belgium where I worked at a division of NATO for, for,Michael Jamin:I feel like you might speak a lot of languages. Do you speak how many languages you speak?Dawn DeKeyser:Um, I used to speak French when I worked in the warehouse with the Belgians. Right. Um, and then, you know, when my other girlfriends were cheerleaders and all that, I was treasurer of the Latin Club. I don't mean to brag.Michael Jamin:Wow. So you speak Latin. I knew you spoke. What?Dawn DeKeyser:And, and so then I, after dropping out, I went back and I finished up my degree in, uh, appropriately named a BS in advertising. And that's, that's really when I started my writing career. And, um, let's see, what did I do? So I started,Michael Jamin:You worked in advertising.Dawn DeKeyser:So I got to work on tv, radio, and print. And in fact, my first assignment was writing, uh, dozens of scripts for David Brener for TacoMichael Jamin:Bell. That was your work. Now I, now I know your work. <laugh>.Dawn DeKeyser:That's what I'm known for. Um, so getting closer to the TV part, I was living in Dallas. My boyfriend was discovered by a talent manager, and he immediately moved out to LA and became a successful actor.Michael Jamin:Do we know his name?Dawn DeKeyser:Yeah. I went, I'll I'll say it. I mean, it was a long time ago. So Tom Hayden Church.Michael Jamin:Oh, I did not know that. Okay.Dawn DeKeyser:Yeah. And so he, his confidence and his uniqueness was just like he broken right away. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And I went on to New York and in advertising, which I loved. And you know, after a while, after about two years, I thought maybe I could write something longer than 30 seconds. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So I took writing classes at night. I did improv, which I was terrible at because of that. Let's revisit the military background. I am not spontaneous.Michael Jamin:You're not supposed to go off script when you're in the military.Dawn DeKeyser:Oh. Oh, no. And I'm very methodical and you know, by this time I was like mid to late twenties and I guess I was having a quarter life crisis and thinking, what, what am I, what do I wanna do and what do I love doing? I loved writing and I loved sitcoms more than anything. Um, I didn't know how to do that. I called Tom, who was at the time on Wings, that was his first series. And I said, Could you send by now my ex-boyfriend? And I said, Could you send me the writer's draft through a producing draft? I wanna see the transition mm-hmm. <affirmative> of how this writing is done. And so then I started taping my favorite shows and then doing the stop and pause on the VHS tape.Michael Jamin:Like really studying how long a scene would be, how what the act breaks are everything. Huh.Dawn DeKeyser:All that. The dialogue, the, and I would map out the beats on a notepad, which by the way, I still write on old fashioned paper notepads for everything. And then I transfer it to the computer. Wow.Michael Jamin:That's old school.Dawn DeKeyser:That is old school. And it is all about the ritual. And like, I think there's something about the the brain to the heart to the hand that gets on paper that I, I don't get when I write.Michael Jamin:But you could, you must be able to read your handwriting. Cause I can't read my handwriting. I couldn't even try.Dawn DeKeyser:I no, I can't. I can get the gist of it.Michael Jamin:Oh, really? Okay.Dawn DeKeyser:Yeah. Um, so Tom sent me a series of one of one script and, um, I was writing my own two spec scripts. And then I moved to LA with $3,000 in cash.Michael Jamin:And where, what I always, I I have to What part in LA did you live at first?Dawn DeKeyser:I lived Endless Field, which was being hailed as the New West Village of LA and it is not. And I was living right on Vermont Avenue and I slept on my bathrobe for the first two weeks until my stuff came from New York.Michael Jamin:But you had a place all by yourself or you have roommates?Dawn DeKeyser:Uh, no, I had a place to myself. I mean, it was $700 for one.Michael Jamin:Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. That sounds about right. That's a good deal actually. Uh, even then, that's a good deal. So, okay. And then, and then how did you find a, how did you finally get work?Dawn DeKeyser:So I was writing these spec scripts and I sent them them to Bill Diamond and Mike Sal. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And when I moved out to LA, they were my first meeting.Michael Jamin:But How did you know them?Dawn DeKeyser:Through Tom? Because they were baby writers on the show. Oh,Michael Jamin:Right. Yeah.Dawn DeKeyser:And they said, you know, we thought you were just gonna be some gal who want, who had this idea of writing for sick homes, but you know what you're doing. Right. And I was very happy about that. They didn't give me my first break,Michael Jamin:But they, but they weren't, they were just staff writers at the time.Dawn DeKeyser:Yeah, yeah. Which is fine. You know, I thought the first thing I needed to do was build a community. So I took a UCLA extension class at night and on the last day of the class, everyone was filing out. Someone turned around and said, you know, the deadline for the Disney Writer's Fellowship is tomorrow. You have to have your work postmarked by then. Okay. And I ran home and got my stuff in the mail the next morning. And, um, I sort of like that intro that I just talked about my life, I sort of put some of that in the essay that you write for what's your unique background. And, um, and then sent in a, uh, a Murphy Brown, maybe. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I'mMichael Jamin:Not sure you had a bunch of specsDawn DeKeyser:Probably. No, I had, because I'm very methodical, I would spend six months writing each of them. Okay. And that's night and day work shopping, doing writers groups, doing punch up mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, until I felt like every page that your eyeballs land on made sense and was good and had a joke and you knew where the characters were going.Michael Jamin:Before we skip ahead, you said something I thought was really smart, you said you wanted to build your community. Right. Because a lot of people don't even think about that.Dawn DeKeyser:Yeah.Michael Jamin:So you knew you wanted by, you knew you wanted help or you wanted, like what, what were you looking for?Dawn DeKeyser:Well, I knew that I didn't know anyone here. Tom was off on his own, uh, fabulous life. I knew a girl from Dallas from years before, but, um, there was, there was no one that I could send my stuff to and I did cold calling to the agents and that didn't work. Doesn't do anything. Yeah. And so in the UCLA classes, I would usually, if you've got a group of 20 people, there's two that get it, let's say 10%, they'reMichael Jamin:Get what get you or what do you mean get it?Dawn DeKeyser:I mean, they get what the, they are really there to learn and to be in that field. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> some others, you know, just they, it's a fun class to take. Right. But you can tell the two or three people that are very, um, interested in moving their career forward. Right. So I ingratiated myself and said, Let's form a writer's group. And that was okay. You know, that was fine until you start meeting people through them, they bring in their set of information that you don't have access to mm-hmm. <affirmative> and then it just starts growing.Michael Jamin:Right? Yeah. You gotta be there. And you, you were there now, how were you making a living? You still working in advertising now?Dawn DeKeyser:So I was still in, I wasn't in doing advertising. I was temping and I had this job at, uh, Disney on the lot where I was answering phones for the head of marketing mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And I thought, I'm advertising and marketing. And because, um, at, on the second day, he came out of his office and he said, Who are you and why are you so bad at answering phones? Like you're dropping calls <laugh> and you're, you're sending in the wrong people. And I was like, Yeah, cuz um, this is really what I do. I actually love the One Sheet movie posters that you guys are writing, so I'd like to write headlines for that. And I had secretly gone into the files to see what their freelancers were invoicing them.Michael Jamin:Interesting.Dawn DeKeyser:And he said, Yeah, I don't think you're right for that. So I brought in my portfolio the next day and he said, I think you're right for this. So I started picking up freelance for movie posters,Michael Jamin:But that was not, See some people think that that's how you break in, but I wouldn't think that that's how to break in. That's just how to make a book. Right.Dawn DeKeyser:What do you mean? Like,Michael Jamin:Well, like that wouldn't, working in that advertising side for Disney wouldn't get you, you know, you're on the Disney lot, but it wouldn't get you as a sick, you know, get you work as a sit home writer.Dawn DeKeyser:That's right. So that predated getting into, so I got in the Disney Writer's Fellowship, Right. Um, that was over the course of like a two, two month process of interviewing and meeting with their executives. And I went into that meeting thinking, this is what I moved out here for. And they said, So what is your plan if, if this doesn't work out? And I said, This is going to work out. I really can't imagine y y'all finding someone better or more dedicated to doing great work. I really wanna do this. I wanna work with my heroes. I wanna work with people that will make me a better writer.Michael Jamin:And who were your heroes then?Dawn DeKeyser:Well, we…

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    049 - Writer/Producer Christy Stratton Oct 05, 2022
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    This week, Michael Jamin interviews Writer/Producer Christy Stratton about her career in Hollywood. Christy Stratton has worked on shows like The Amanda Show, King of the Hill, Modern Family, and Bless The Harts.Show NotesMichael's Online Screenwriting Course - https://michaeljamin.com/courseFree Screenwriting Lesson - https://michaeljamin.com/freeJoin My Watchlist - https://michaeljamin.com/watchlistChristy Stratton's IMDB - https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0833629/Transcripts Are Auto-GeneratedChristy Stratton:Story has become so unimportant, I'm guessing to, to buyers or something. I don't know why, but it is like, story was so important to us coming up and how much time you devoted to it, that it's surprising to me when, you know, people don't know it. I mean, again, it took me forever, but when it's so important and I feel like, um, it's kind of a lost art...Michael Jamin:You're listening to Screenwriters. Need to Hear This with Michael Jamin. Hey everyone, this is Michael Jamin and you're listening to Screenwriters Need to Hear This, the podcast. My co-host Phil is not here today. He's working on the back end of the course. He's making it better. That's what I'm told. But I'm here with my very special guest, Christy Stratton. She's a great friend and thank you Christy, thank you for joining the show. I'm hopChristy Stratton:You, I'm, so any, any chance I can get to, to have a chat with you is, is, um, it's exciting, really.Michael Jamin:Let tell you something, Christy, I'mChristy Stratton:This big star.Michael Jamin:My audience does not deserve you. You're too good for the peopleChristy Stratton:<laugh>. Oh,Michael Jamin:But let me tell you, let me tell them, Let me give you a little intro. Let me give them an introduction so they know who you are. Okay? So, uh, TV writer and producer, uh, I'm gonna just run through some of your credits. I met you on King of the Hill. We were together for many years, but before that you did Hope and Faith. Remember that show? I remember it awkward. You were on a, you were on Awkward for, for a long time. Every Everyone's crazy but us, which was your own minute web series, right? Yes. Which you also directed. Correct. Uh, then Modern Family, we've both heard of that show. Bless the hearts. You've worked on that for, for quite a while. You also did Hope in Faith. You like chose, uh, you like No, you, I'm sorry. Raising Hope you like shows with the word hope in it.Christy Stratton:I, what can I say that is just, that's a theme that IMichael Jamin:<laugh> and so I got many questions for you, but I know some of the answers. But these people listening, they don't know anything. So tell me, tell everyone how you've broke into the business.Christy Stratton:Oh, it's so, you know, it, it was such a, a backwards kind of way. I'm from Texas, right? And I went to college in Florida and I, I, the Universal Studios Orlando had just opened when I graduated from college. So like, that was Hollywood's me, that was showbiz, right? And so I worked as a pa and um, one of the PAs that I work with said, Oh, there's this thing called the DGA Trainee test. Do you know what this is?Michael Jamin:I didn't know what it is. Yeah,Christy Stratton:Well, what it is, is it's a test that they, I think they still have DGA trainees on, on sets, and they will put you, if you like, are selected. They put you on sets and that you can be a pa. So, which is, I didn't end up passing or getting, uh, to be a DGA trainee, but it brought me out here and I was kind of like, like, I, I really don't know what it is I want, but it's not, you know, in Orlando, Florida. So I,Michael Jamin:But you didn't know if you wanted to be a writer or director. You just wanted toChristy Stratton:Be, I couldn't even imagine being a writer. Like, I couldn't even, Ima I wouldn't even dream of doing anything like that. Never.Michael Jamin:But then what did you wanna do?Christy Stratton:Well, I just wanted to kind of work in entertainment. Well, that's the thing is like, I, when I got out here, I started working at a PR firm and I'm like, Okay, PR that's not what I'm, you know, that's not my, you know, nothing against that. But I just wasn't good at that. Right? And, um, and then I worked, oh gosh, I did a bunch of temp jobs, but then I got, uh, I heard about the Groundlings School and the Groundlings is an LA based comedy troupe and a lot of very famous Saturday Night Live people came from it. And they had a, uh, series of classes that you can take. And I wasn't terribly successful with that either, but it was like, Oh, I'm enjoying, um, writing. And, and, and so it took many years to get to that point. And I did not get through to the Groundlings, but I went to this other theater called Acme Comedy Theater. Right. And some of the people there, Brett Bear and David Fikel were there, Alex Boorstein, some people were there that were doing, that were writing scripts. And so I thought, well, I, I, I'll, I'll try that. And so I, then I wrote a couple different ones and I got into the Warner Brothers TV writers program.Michael Jamin:You did that. Wait, hold on. Slow down. Yes. Like, first of all this, no one was gonna want, no one wants to hear the answer to this, but me. But what part of town did you live in when you first came to la?Christy Stratton:Oh gosh. I li well, I li because I was a PA in Florida, one of the gals had already moved out here, so I kind of was her roommate in, uh, in Santa Monica. But then I lived in this tiny little room that I lived with somebody else in Sherman Oaks. Right. Shared the bath. I shared a bathroom with a cat, <laugh>. And I can remember like walking in on the cat doing his business and being like, Oh, sorry, I'll come back, <laugh>. It was really, um, and I didn't, for myself, it was just rough. And, and I, it, one of my biggest regrets, and I don't have many, is that I didn't take typing in, in high school. Right? Because you get all the top temp jobs if you can type fast. And I never could, but anywho. But yeah, I lived all over in just tiny. And then I lived in West Hollywood in a bachelor apartment that did not have a kitchen. It had, um, uh, uh, hot plate and a mini fridge. And so if I wanted to, WhatMichael Jamin:Street was this on West Hollywood? Cause I lived in West Hollywood too.Christy Stratton:On Melrose.Michael Jamin:What? Melrose and what?Christy Stratton:Oh God, you don't Melrose. Um, where Mellon Rose's is, Oh gosh. What is, Uh, Kings.Michael Jamin:Kings. Oh, okay. You're further west. Okay. Yeah.Christy Stratton:Yeah. Interesting. And I would use the toilet as my garbage disposal. Like, it was, it was really meager.Michael Jamin:You paid your dues. And then I didn't realize you were in the, Cause we were in the Water Brothers Spreaders program too. Oh, I didn't realize that. But what, I don't know what year we were in. I wonder if you were before or after us.Christy Stratton:I'm sure I was after.Michael Jamin:Do you <laugh>, how dare you. How dare you imply OhChristy Stratton:No, But you were already a producer When I would say when I was aMichael Jamin:Did you, did you enjoy, did you enjoy it? Did you like,Christy Stratton:Um, I did because it was the first time if all the things I tried and I tried stand up, I tried, Oh my goodness. I tried everything and it was the only thing that I felt positive feedback coming back to me. And it was. And so I think all of those years of trying to do all those other things in comedy, trying to figure it out, um, helped. And, uh, and so I just, and I lucked out that I was one of the ones that was read at the end. So my first job interview as a writer was for friends, and I did not get it.Michael Jamin:Wow. Must have been a good script. And you ever wrote with anybody, you've never collaborated with anybody, Right?Christy Stratton:Consider that. You know, I, like I did, I did actually. In fact, it's funny, I'm about to go out with a pitch with a person that I used to write with. I did for a while. I wrote a couple with my friend Dave. But, um, but I, you know, I don't know that I found that other person that it, that, that it worked out. Cuz you have to have that kind of equal amount of work and your work ethic has to be the same. And you're, and, and I, I don't know, I guess I never found that, that person and that, cuz that would've been helpful. And I, you know, I love collaborating and, and that kind of stuffMichael Jamin:Now. So you got outta the Warner Brothers, but people don't know this. When you're in the Warner Brothers workshop and you graduate, especially, you were like, probably the top of the class. They try to set you up. They try to pimp you out to one of those shows at a discount rate. They probably about a third of what the Writer's Guild minimum is. But you're okay at that point. You're so desperate. You'll do it cuz whatever. Right? Yeah. And they, they got you meeting with friends, which is amazing. I'mChristy Stratton:At it. I did not get the job. Which, which honestly my learning curve was very, you know, slow and long. And I, I didn't have any, like, I knew what I thought was funny and I have a background that's very unique to a lot of people that are out here, but it took years for me. And so if I'd had gotten on that show, I don't, I don't know that I would've lasted. I mean it, like, it was the end. I mean, it was, I think it was the last season, but, Oh, okay. But I mean, it, I would've been grateful for the opportunity, but I don't know that I would've been, um, a lot of those lessons I had to learn. I'm glad I learned them. Um, on, on, I don't know, not so big a stage, I guess.Michael Jamin:Well, were you crushed when you didn't get it though?Christy Stratton:That's a good question. I was bummed.Michael Jamin:How could you not be?Christy Stratton:I was bummed, but I was a little bit relieved.Michael Jamin:And then at that point you had an agent, right?Christy Stratton:I had imagine going into the, going into thoseMichael Jamin:Program. That's pretty impressive that you got in any the, the program. I mean, it's hard to get in. Okay. So then what happened after they, you got submitted to other shows?Christy Stratton:So then, um, Yes, and I, that's when I got on Three Sisters and I, I was, I was useless. I cannot overstate,Michael Jamin:I never even heard of Three Sisters. What was that? I was aChristy Stratton:Wonderful show. Diane Cannon and, um, uh, AJ Langer Uhhuh and, um, Katherine Lea.Michael Jamin:And isChristy Stratton:It, And the gal who redhead that was played, um, Beth on News Radio. And I always forget her name. She did in Nty.Michael Jamin:Yeah. Right. I know who you. Right. And so,Christy Stratton:But I got on that show when I was, I was like, I say useless.Michael Jamin:People don't realize that. People don't realize this is all good cuz people don't realize that your first job, you're going to be useless. Most writers are gonna be useless. Did you recognize they were useless? Cuz sometimes young writers don't show, they don't realize they're useless and they talk anyway.Christy Stratton:They don't nowadays. It's that. But back then we, I was the only staff writer in the room. Now it's, it's all staff writers, Right? And like one senior person. Right. But back then it was very clear and the two story editors, they were like fed for yourself. I mean, and I can remember like, um, uh, pitching, it was finally my episode. I finally got an episode to write, and it was only in the back nine. And, uh, it was a disaster. It was awful. Right? And I, I wanted to punch, It was punch up time, but I wasn't very good at that. Like, now I love it and I have so much fun doing it, but back then, but I knew it at staying. So I, I pitched a joke that was like the, it, the punchline was like, it's good because of this and bad because of this.Christy Stratton:And the showrunner said, I don't get it. And I'm like, Oh, okay. And I tried to let it go, you know? Cause I wanted to try to see if I could get the room to kind of, you know, help me out here. Right? Um, and then she goes, No, no, no. Explain it to me. So I'm like, and then I like, as a tear rolls down. Yes. And I explain. And then she goes, Well that sounds like it's both good. And I just was like, Okay, you know, don't cry out loud. I'm just trying to just honestly like, hurt myself a little bit so I could my energies. But I, it, it wasn't because I was doing what I thought was good work and being unrecognized. It was, I didn't know what I was doing and no one helped me.Michael Jamin:<laugh>. Yes. Yes. That's, it's such a, Okay. Cause I talk about that a lot. I, Okay, so then you, okay, you wereChristy Stratton:Then I lucked out sometimes because I've been, been doing this so long and I had been here so long up to that point, you know, people, so, like for instance, um, uh, when I needed a new agent, uh, my friend John Westfall, who I did a a Groundlings class with, said, Hey, there were, he's at Sony. There was some agents in my office and I recommended you. And so I got with them and um, by sheer luck one of the guys, David Shane, who is still like, I will never, he's paid me a kindness that I will never be able to repay. So three sisters was a nightmare. Then David Shane, this guy who was in the Warner Brothers program with me, uh, had a meeting with Greg Daniels because Greg's or Dave's brother was like roommates with, with Greg Daniels or something in college, I'm not sure. Right. But Greg testing him, said, uh, to David, uh, who was the best person in your, in your Warner Brother's thing, seeing if he would say himself. He, Cause he told me this later and he, and he went, and then he said me and then he is like, she's from Texas. Cause it was the king of the hill. It was was good. Yeah. And so then, uh, it turned into like, who was this girl? And so then I got a, a meeting with Greg because of David'sMichael Jamin:I's, see, that's nice. And so you fit in really what cuz King of the Hill obviously was took place in Texas. So they always were looking for more authenticity. They're looking for, they're always looking for writers from Texas. And so you jumped in, I think season six, Is that right?Christy Stratton:Or seven or seven? It was a, like, there were two other women, and I wanna say 15 men. Yeah. And I have to say everyone was so, uh, because I have been on stats where I've been treated very poorly. But it was all you guys, I mean, it wasn't like every, I just became the little sister. Like I became, and, and, and in a way that was, um, with kindness, but not inappropriate. You know what I'm saying? Like, I, I felt like I was out, I was on my own for a while. Like, I'm just this in the sea. And I, I can remember pitching a little bit here and there, and I can remember you, uh, being very kind to me and telling me, um, that when pitching a joke, you know, don't go to that obvious place cuz everyone's gonna beat you. And you're right, I'm not fast. I'm not fast. And that you said, go to a place where no one else is gonna go. And so that is what I have done my whole career, because I am not that, and all you guys, all you guys could just do this so quickly and I can like, come up with ideas quickly. Like, ooh, what if this character, you know…

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    048 - Writer/Director Rob Cohen Sep 28, 2022
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    This week, we have our first Podcast guest, Writer/Director Rob Cohen. Rob has written and directed for shows like The Simpsons, Wonder Years, The Ben Stiller Show, MAD TV, SNL, Just Shoot Me, Maron, Big Bang Theory & Black-ish. Join Michael Jamin and Rob Cohen as they discuss their careers, breaking in, and what it means to have a long, fruitful career in Hollywood.Show NotesMichael's Online Screenwriting Course - https://michaeljamin.com/courseFree Screenwriting Lesson - https://michaeljamin.com/freeJoin My Watchlist - https://michaeljamin.com/watchlistRob Cohen on IMDB - https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0169712/Transcripts are Auto-GeneratedRob Cohen:Just shoot Me was in the nineties. And if you said NBC in the nineties had so many comedies, some were good, and some were terrible. But now, if you look at NBC, are they doing any comedies? Like maybe two?Michael Jamin:Yeah, maybe. Yeah.Rob Cohen:Yeah. So, so it's the same place, but it's the, the tide is clear. So for somebody to aspire to working on wacky old-timey NBC comedies, it's very foolish. However, if they are a self starter and, and determine what their roadmap is, nobody will stop them. You can't guarantee success, but at least you've tried it and you might be successful trying it and pursue what you like.Michael Jamin:Right. You're listening to Screenwriters Need to Hear This with Michael Jam. Hey everybody, welcome to Screenwriters. Need to hear this. My name is Michael Jamin and Phil is not here with us today, but I have a special guest. This is our first time ever having a guest on, on our podcast. And I'm absolutely thrilled that it's, you know, in Hollywood. People say this is my good friend, My, but it's true. Rob, you're my good friend and thank you.Rob Cohen:You're my goodMichael Jamin:Friend. Yeah. <Laugh>. And so it's nice to actually have a good friend kick off my guest on the show. So let me introduce you. This is Rob Cohen, Writer, Director, and I'm gonna scroll through some of your credits so people know who you are. And and I'm sorry, I'm, I'm only gonna do some of the highlights that I think I'm gonna leave out. Probably the someone's I, because you had, Rob has a huge resume and you're a writer and a director, but you started andRob Cohen:Some of it is good.Michael Jamin:And for, for those of you wanna make a, a visualization. Rob also worked on one of your early jobs was The Simpsons and the character of Millhouse was Rob modeled after him. So Rob is picture Millhouse now older and sadder. So, and also Rob's Canadian. So I wanna talk about how a Canadian breaks into the business. Sure. The whole language barrier, how you learned English. Right. I wanna learn how weRob Cohen:Figured out Yeah. How the machines work so we could Yeah.Michael Jamin:I know you drove a dog sled growing up and now, now you drive a car. So stuff like that. Thank you.Rob Cohen:Thank YouMichael Jamin:Thank you. So let's begin. Rob's, I guess your first staff job, I guess was the Naked Truth, your big one?Rob Cohen:No, my very first staff job full time was the Ben Stiller show.Michael Jamin:Oh, right. Will you go back even further than that? Bend Stiller. Right. And you also did Mad tv. Hold on. Your credits are crazy good. Like you have a huge list of credits. Naked Truth work with me, I met you on, well I think I knew you before that, but just shoot me work. You work together, right? Bet, bet. Midler show. Yes. According to Jim. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, according to your credits, you are on, According to Jim. Right. the Jamie Kennedy experiment. Was that a show or an experiment? Rob?Rob Cohen:That was an experiment. That became a show on the wv.Michael Jamin:See Dots? I don't know what that is. It'sRob Cohen:A amazing, That was a pilot for nbc. Yeah.Michael Jamin:Oh, Pilot. How did you get that in there? Father of the Pride? You remember that, that animated show American Dad? I've heard of that one. Yep. Big Bang Theory. Heard of that one. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>, 20 Good Years. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>, our friend Marsh McCall created that show. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> Emily's reasons why not. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> fascinating.Rob Cohen:You're really combing through all theMichael Jamin:I'm on IMDB.Rob Cohen:Yeah, of course.Michael Jamin:There's more Life In Times of Tim, which was a riot that, that animated show Maron, which we brought you back. We hired you to be a writer and director on that. We're gonna talk about that. Yeah, sure. Lady Dynamite with our friend Pam Brady. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> I don't know companies. I don't, I don't know. So I'm skipping over the, But you also have your own show called Hanging with Dr. Z. We're gonna talk about that. And then, But directing credits are also crazy. I mean, really I'm all them. Well, well you're, you're, you're good looking. Thanks. Let's go over some of them. Sure. Obviously you did a, you did a bunch of Marons. Yeah. Mystery Science Theater, 3000. You did some Lady Dynamites. Yeah. You did Blackish. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> Stand Against Evil, Speechless. Bless this Mess. Superstore, you directed mm-hmm. The Goldbergs, you directed. Mm-Hmm. Interesting. told that Mo You are, And then most recently, somebody somewhere, which I, I talk about that a lot cause I love the pilot of that. And I just love that show. You directed five episodes of thatRob Cohen:Damn right. Seven,Michael Jamin:Seven. We have to update your IMDB. Yeah,Rob Cohen:Yeah.Michael Jamin:Let's start at the beginning. Cuz a lot of people ask me this and I have no answer. How does a Canadian start work in this country? Like, there are lawsRob Cohen:There are laws and I mean, I know that Americans are all about purity. So I will say that Canadians, they're almost like Americans. It's almost like we live next door to you guys,Michael Jamin:South or north of us.Rob Cohen:I, I don't know, <laugh>, I don't know. But I didn't have any aspirations to get into showbiz or even come to the United States. So I didn't know that it was a, it was all a fluke. The whole thing was a fluke. I can certainly condense the journey.Michael Jamin:Let's hear it.Rob Cohen:The fast version is I was a bit of a scam as a young man and was encouraged to live on my own at a young age. And so I lived on my own and I was just a complete screw up. And I grew up in Calgary and had no future whatsoever.Michael Jamin:You were encouraged to live on your own at what age?Rob Cohen:15.Michael Jamin:Why? You were, you were a handful for your parents.Rob Cohen:I was a handful because my dad had gotten remarried and the mix was not the greatest mix. So there were two opinions on how things should work in that situation. I was of one opinion andMichael Jamin:TheRob Cohen:Back was of another.Michael Jamin:But looking back on it, do you realize, Do, are you, do you feel like you were wrong as a 15 year old? Or do you like No, I was right.Rob Cohen:You were right. I was absolutely right. Interesting. Absolutely. Right. and so I just, You,Michael Jamin:You were on your own at 15, Dude, I, I couldn't imagine.Rob Cohen:Yeah. I had an apartment. I, I mean, it's not like I suddenly got, was living on my own and figured everything out. I was still a disaster. I just had my own apartment and I was so stupid that for the first month I was like, Oh, this is awesome. My party pad. And I had all my buddies over and we were just doing stupid things. And then I got the, basically realized I had to pay rent and gas and electric. And I was like, Oh my God. Like, I actually have to pay these bills to live here. And I was delivering pizzas at night, and that was certainly,Michael Jamin:You're gonna school during the day and delivering pizza.Rob Cohen:Yeah, I delivered pizzas. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I was a comp, I was a disaster. I had a 75 Dodge Dart that I would deliver pizzas in whatever the weather was and would like steal gasoline from car lots. So I could put gas in my car to deliver pizzas. I was a complete idiot.Michael Jamin:Have you tried pitching this as a show?Rob Cohen:No. it's just, it's so, it's, it's interesting in hindsight, but it's also, you know, you could call it, you know, like it's like Don portrait of a team runaway. It's like Rob portrait of a complete disaster because every choice I made was wrong. That'sMichael Jamin:Mind's a good show.Rob Cohen:<Laugh>. Well, maybe at some point, but I think I sold a pilot once about my parents' weird divorce and how they lived a block away from each other, but had the same address through it, some flute. But anyways, I was just drifting around for a while, just doing nothing. And sort of speeding up to your question. My cousin lived here in LA in the Valley, and I, because I was doing nothing in Calgary and had, I was not gonna college, I did not have enough credits or interest to go to university. And just got my car one day and left my apartment in Calgary and just threw a bunch of stuff in the car and drove down here to LA to visit my cousin who lived in Vaneyes. And again, like speeding through the boring stuff. I was just gonna visit for a couple days and crash on his couch.Rob Cohen:And I met this girl that he was going to school with, and we, she and I hit it off and I'm like, I'll stay another week mm-hmm. <Affirmative> and then I'll stay another week. And then I sort of had this, if you want to use the word epiphany incorrectly realized like, I could go back to Calgary and do nothing, or I could stay here and do nothing with this girl. So I decided to like stick around for an you know, excuse me, undetermined amount of time. And then realized I'm kind of living here. But I was, I lived here illegally for many years.Michael Jamin:And you were like 17.Rob Cohen:Yeah.Michael Jamin:How old were you? And you were living here illegally?Rob Cohen:Yes. For many years. Interesting.Michael Jamin:Yeah. And, but you were working, How did you work then?Rob Cohen:I worked under the table. I got a bunch of jobs. I think the statute of limitations is over, but I worked at different restaurants and Right. The, I was a security guard at a mall. I sold shoes, I fixed yogurt machines.Michael Jamin:You know, I worked at a yogurt store. I wonder if you fixed Humphrey yogurt.Rob Cohen:You fix, did you fix them? I worked at a place called I can't believe it's Yogurt. And then they opened up a second store that said, Yes, it's yogurt <laugh>. So they basically, they opened up a store that answered a question nobody was asking. No. Was asking <laugh>. Yeah. And I still remember how to, you know, you unscrew those four bolts and you pull out the assembly and you take the O-rings off and you clean them and then you lu the O-rings and then you put the thing back in. But it was all the reality was because I looked and mostly sounded like an American people never asked. And this was pre nine 11 and pre all that stuff. And they just thought I was American. And no, not one person asked me for any validating id. Wow. And I, I made up a fake social security number and got hired and they, a lot of 'em just paid me cash under the table.Michael Jamin:This is perfect. Yeah. Now, and then at some point, well, but maybe I'll skip. So how did you, how did this whole Hollywood thing happen? When did you decide, how did that, when did you decide you wanted to be a, I guess, a writer? Right.Rob Cohen:Well, I never decided it. I, I, it's such a boring story and I may actually do it as a pilot, but cutting to the chase, I was delivering food for a, a deli that is no longer in business in LA Right. And had a lot of clientele that were in show business. And this one guy took a liking to me and basically said, you know, if you ever wanna get outta the exciting world of late night sandwich delivery, gimme a call. We need PAs. And I didn't know what a PA was. And he explained what it was. So I, I, this is how dope I was. I was like, Yeah, sure. So I'll, I called him up <laugh> and went over to the Fox lot and he explained what a PA was Uhhuh and I thought it paid more than working at thisMichael Jamin:Deli. And he, he was a producer. What wasRob Cohen:He? Producer? for, I mean, he's still a producer, but producer of The Simpsons, Tracy Elman show. Oh, okay. This, he's an amazing guy named Richards guy who I, I literally owe everything to. And he hired me because I was nice to him when I would deliver food as a PA on the Trace Elman Show. And that was the very first time I was exposed to anything in show business whatsoever. And I was assigned to the writer's room, so I was in charge of getting them food and cleaning up. And And that's a queen. Yeah. And it was an amazing writer's room. And that was it. That was the first exposure to it.Michael Jamin:And then when did you decide you wanna start? When did you start writing?Rob Cohen:I didn't start writing. I was there for the last two seasons of the Tracy Elman Show. And then on the last season I didn't even, I still don't really know how to type. I started hunt and peck, but I would stay late at night. And they were, it was a great writer's room and they were really nice to me. And I just thought these guys seemed to be having fun. And one night they were stuck on a joke and that meant they were sticking around, which meant I had to stick around because I had to clean up after them. And I just decided like, I'm gonna write down a couple options for this joke. And sort of meekly slipped it to one of the writers, this guy Mark Flanigan, who was an incredible, and I'm like, you know, I don't mean to step on eight toes, but I just, I wanna go home.Rob Cohen:Ideas. Yeah. And that was literally, I wanna go home. And he, they used one of the jokes. And so I got to go home <laugh>. And then I was like, Okay, well I'll try this again. So I, I started to very quietly with months in between side sort of pitch ideas. And then I went in at night after work and Red Scripts and sort of taught myself how a script is visually structured. Right. And then on the computer would type fake scripts just to physically format a script. And then, because it was a sketch show, I had this idea for a sketch and I just typed it up and it took like a month for me to type up a six page sketch cuz I was terrified. Right. And they ended up buying it and Wow. It was like $1,600. And I got an agent at caa, but I was still a pa at the Tracy Elman show. Right. And, and then I thought, again, showing my lack of planning for my life it was like, this writing things seems kind of fun, like maybe I'll try it. And that was, that was when I had the first inkling that perhaps that was something I may want to try to pursue. But there was no guarantee of success.Michael Jamin:And then you just continued writing specs scripts and your agents started submitting you places.Rob Cohen:I wrote a bunch of spec stuff and then by that point to Tracy Mond show was canceled and they switched. It was the same production company as The Simpsons, which was just starting. So they switched everybody over to The Simpsons. And then because everybody there was so great when The Simpsons took off, you know, it just was huge outta the gate. They had all these weird assignments that they needed help with. Like can you come up with 50 grant calls for Bart? Can you come up with a promo for this? Do the Bartman video that's gonna be on mtv. And I'm actually looking, the, my very first check sort of professional check over on the wall was for writing the intro that Bart Simps…

    Full show notes at the publisher

    047 - When Putting Your Work "Out There," Where is "There?" Sep 21, 2022
    Show notes

    How should I put myself out there as a screenwriter in 2022? If you follow me on social media, you know I constantly give people that advice, "just put yourself out there." Well, this week on Screenwriter's Need To Hear This, we discuss where "there" is and how to put yourself out "there."Show NotesMichael's Online Screenwriting Course - https://michaeljamin.com/courseFree Screenwriting Lesson - https://michaeljamin.com/freeJoin My Watchlist - https://michaeljamin.com/watchlistTranscriptions are Auto-GeneratedMichael's Online Screenwriting Course - https://michaeljamin.com/courseFree Screenwriting Lesson - https://michaeljamin.com/freeJoin My Watchlist - https://michaeljamin.com/watchlistTranscripts are auto-generatedMichael:You know, there's not a lot of demand. There's not a strong demand for, for poor to mediocre scripts. And I think some people think well, but that show on TV that show's terrible. Can I do that? Mine is just as bad. It's like, well, we, we can talk about why that's bad or you know how it's unfair that their bad show is on the air, but, and your a bad show, your equally bad show is not. We could talk about that, but I think your odds, it go up exponentially by doing something great. You're listening to screenwriters. Need to hear this with Michael jam.Michael:Hey everybody. This is Michael Jamin. And welcome back to screenwriters. Need to hear this, the podcast for screenwriters who need to hear this. And today we are talking about the title's episode is when put, when putting your work out there, where is there? Because I, I say that a lot. I say, Hey, just put your work out there. And people, one guy was like, Hey, well, we have a where's there. Where is there? Which is a fair thing to ask. And so my answer to that, Phil is anywhere, put your work out anywhere. So whatever you got going on, if you've got nothing going on, which is fine, then putting out your work out there means giving it to somebody else. You know, if you're only, if you only read person, who's read your script or you seen your project is your mom. Show it to one other person.Michael:Now you've doubled the number of people. And now you may think that, okay, but that's not enough. Okay. There are other things you can do. But so many people think like, you know, when you're putting your work out there, is there a website? Is there a contest? Is there someone's door stop? Is it me? I'm not the gatekeeper. The gatekeeper is not what you think it is. You know, when I first started in the business, I was just a dude who wanted to be a writer. And I teamed up with another dude who wanted to be a writer. There was nothing special about us. We didn't have connections. We were just two dudes and we were, we became friends. Right? And that's how a lot of partnerships or, you know, that's just a lot about how opportunities, not even just partnerships, it's people who are friends, just doing things together because they both have a similar goal.Michael:And so putting your work out there means finding people like you, because making it in Hollywood is climbing a mountain. And when you climb a mountain, you don't start at the top. You don't, you know, you don't show up to Netflix with your script. Hey, get, you know, it doesn't work that way. I mean, maybe it has for one person and, but don't kid yourself for everyone else. You have to climb your way up the mountain. That means starting at the bottom, not starting at the top. And so where do you start at the bottom? The bottom is anything more. But if you've got this going on in your life, which is nothing, then do something, which is a little more than what you have. If your neighbor's shooting something and their backyard, that's more than what you got going on. It just because they don't have the universal studios backing them doesn't mean it's not worthy of getting involved in them, you know, and whatever they're doing, because those people, people with similar interests tend to do things and they rise up and you wanna be part of that.Michael:A simple thing to do, a very simple thing to do is if you live in a city, go to your local film school, like how, you know, a lot of cities have, or towns have film schools. And every semester they have they usually have like film festivals, like to, to air the kids' work, their projects. And no one's going to those things be, who's gonna go to that. Like just their mom and their dad, and maybe the roommate go buy a ticket. It'll be $5. It's not gonna be much. If anything, maybe he's free. Go sit through these movies and go watch them. And at the end, mingle with the, these kids and find something nice to say, even if they're terrible, there's, I'm sure you can find something nice to say about something. Go up to the director. I love the way you lit that scene in the alley.Michael:Go up to the writer. I love the way you wrote that, that wonderful, the triplet, you know, in the bedroom scene. I love that. I love that. Go up to the actor. You play that so wonderful. Even if it's terrible, even if like the whole thing as a whole, isn't great. I know you can find things to like about it. And just go up to those people and say, Hey, I love what you just did. Consider myself a fan. I'm a fan of your work. Now, a young kid who hears that is gonna freak out because imagine a stranger saying that and that kid, maybe they can't collaborate with some on something now, cuz they're in film school, but they'll be at a film school in a year or two or whatever. And now you are part, you know, now you're hanging out with people who want the same thing and, and maybe you collaborate.Michael:Maybe you'll work together on something. Maybe you won't, maybe they'll have an opportunity to, you know, to hire you on something. But those people are gonna go up and you wanna build that base. You wanna build that circle. And that's honestly, you know, that's one of the advantages. So we have this, this, you know, screenwriting course. And one of the advantages is that we have a private Facebook group and I see the people in this FA the private Facebook group, they've gone to my course, they've learned all the lessons and now they start, they're ha they're collaborating. Some people are teamed up. Some people are they're doing table reads together. You know, they're socializing in the, and I think that's fantastic. I'm not doing, I'm not organizing any of that. They're organizing it on their own. They're having table reads. They're helping each other out, which is so smart because that tide rises, man. You, you know, they help each other out. People are already doing great things in that, in that group. Good for them. And they don't need me. I, I don't need to, you know, prod them. They're doing it on their own. These are the fact that they're doing it on their own. These are people who are, who want it, who want, who will make something happen, cuz they want it. You know? Yeah. I've always hanging out with those people.Phil:I've always described that group as a, as kind of, there's a barrier to entry there. And I think that, you know, you and I have talked about this too. There's a price on your course and there are a lot of people like, well, why are you charging for a course, if you, why are you giving this away? And I'm the one who pushed for the price on the course because I have experienced enough. And I've invested enough in myself in many ways in the business world and the marketing world. I continue to do this. I've paid for most screenwriting courses online because the people who will appreciate it the most are the ones who will pay for it and you're giving away important information. Yeah, but that also is important to those of us who are in that private Facebook group because all of us are showing we are committed to making this work. And that means when people are asking for notes, they're asking for help. They're asking for feedback. The value that is being shared in that group is, is extremely high. And I've been in a lot of free screenwriting groups. It's people who understand, they think about it the same way. And they're just as committed to the, to making this work and making crew out of this as I am. And as the Dave Crossman's are and the mic, everyone, everyone is,Michael:They got skin in the game. You gotta put skin in the game free. If it's Free's worthless and it's not worthless. So put skin in the game and that'll keep and, and, and that'll keep your, you know, motivated. <Laugh>, you're investing in yourself. You're gonna be motivated to make something happen. And, and yeah, so anyway, I would, that's one thing I would do. I'd go up to those film schools and start socializing with those kids. I would, if you're in a town in the middle of nowhere, I would go to your community theater, local theater, and you'll find people, actors, writers, directors, who wanna be involved, who want maybe they want to be involved in your next project that you write. They just wanna act in it. And so that's your little circle. I mean, and there's amazing things that can be done.Michael:Remember everyone who got like, who breaks into the business? We we're, no one's beforehand. There's nothing. It's not like we had signs over, had future success. It's, you know, we're just people. And so that's what I would do. And, and a couple of a couple weeks ago, maybe it was months ago, I don't remember, but some, some kid reached out to me from film school. He wa he was looking for an actor in his fifties to, to be in his, you know, student production. Now wasn't really interested in that. But if I were an aspiring actor, you better believe I would've said yes to that. I would've you know, yeah. I'll, I'll do that because those kids are going places and now you're building out your network. And so there's just no, like where is here? Here is anywhere. Just put it out anywhere, do whatever, you know, that that's, I mean, that's what opportunity looks like opportunity. Doesn't look like someone handing you a check opportunity, looks like you making things and doing things, you know? And, and they always, one thing leads to another. It just does, you know?Phil:Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you've put yourself out there over the last year on social media and you. Yeah. Right. And that platform, you know, we had a podcast recently talking about, like, if you were trying to break in, what would you do? And you would do this. You would be putting yourself out on social media. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> podcast. I think I look at that and I think, okay, I am not a produce screenwriter. Why would I write a podcast? Why would I have a podcast about screenwriting? I don't know that I would, if I weren't here with you, because I'm very aware that there are a lot of Charlas and snakes oil salesmen, trying to get ahold of people and make them think they're an expert. And they're pretending to be something right. If you're interviewing experts, that's a different story. If you're providing value in getting access for a different way, that's a different story. But that doesn't mean you need to be putting yourself on social media as a screenwriting expert, if you are not. I think what you're saying is you should be showing everyone what you have. You should be giving it away for free. You should be putting it out there so that people can easily get access to the special thing that makes you a talented person who can write act direct, produce, whatever it is you're doing.Michael:And you've had some opportunities just because of your you're doing this, or people know you and people, you know, come up to you just because of this, because you're putting yourself out there. You know? So, and you know, we talked about some things off all on the side. Things, opportunities have kind of come your way as a, just because of what, just because you're here now, you know, mm-hmm, <affirmative> and you're showing up, you know, even on the, even on the job you were currently working in, you're showing up. Yeah. So yeah, don't I guess don't be so literal in terms of like, people say, well, you know, how do I get my show on HBO? Well, you start at the bottom. That's how, yeah. You know it, you know, I don't, I, I, I certainly did. I certainly it's so odd that people, I don't know, I guess they getting its information on the internet, but like, like they're like, how do I sell a show on HBO or, or any network really?Michael:Right. And well, I'll tell you how I did it. I started at the bottom so I can go in and I can pitch them and it's not easy. And I certainly, it's not a guarantee I'll sell anything, but I can, I can get the session. I can, I can get the pitch, but it's because I've earned it. And they've, they trust me now with that I'll do a good job if they want it. And that, you know, I know how to make it, but so a stranger, they don't just come off the street. They're not, what do they, they're not gonna just trust someone who hasn't done anything before. Why would they, would you, I mean, would anybody, you know, you're not gonna hand over a check for a couple hundred thousand dollars to someone who hasn't done anything before, that would be nuts.Phil:That message is something that separates you from every other guru in the, in the world. Not that you call yourself a guru, but there are a lot of people who claim to claim to be, and there's selling the dream. And when we started putting the course together and we started putting this stuff out there, that was one thing you were adamant about. I cannot sell the dream. I can't be the guy who goes out and tells them you're gonna make it buy my course, rah, rah, you're gonna make it. And there was a lot of pushback on putting a price tag on the course. And I said, you need to, because they're gonna need to value it. And we have to figure out a way to not to not sell the dream and your way of doing that is being so real with people.Phil:That, that seems to be the thing that stands out for you. That's the thing, time and time again, people say ouch needed to hear this. Thank you so much for being real about this because you're taking people down from cloud nine, have done real expectations that I might have had of being an nickels fellowship winner. On my first script I put in, or an Oscar winner on the first thing that gets produced, whatever it is, whatever delusions of grand or that I had to have to give me to where I am today, that dose of reality is very important because it does two things. One, go ahead.Michael:Well, no, please go, please finish.Phil:Let's say it does two things. One, it makes you take a dose of reality to take a step back and say, Hey, how committed do I need to be to this? And do I have what it takes to actually commit to doing this with the belief that I will get better at the more at bats that I have, or right. The other option is, man, this is not for me. I think I'm gonna go back and I'm gonna be in tech sales. I'm gonna make a pretty good living there, enjoy my life and just enjoy film and television,Michael:Right? ThatPhil:Possible. It's…

    Full show notes at the publisher

    046 - Audition Etiquette for Actors Sep 14, 2022
    Show notes

    As a Showrunner, I'm involved in every decision made on the show, including who gets cast in what role. For actors, there's a lot of confusion about what we're looking for, and the whole process can feel painful. Whether you're an aspiring actor, an actor doing self-tapes, or getting Producer callbacks, this episode should help clarify a lot of the behind-the-scenes. For writers, this is an important episode because it will help you understand how important it is to give actors the info they need to nail their auditions, get what you want on film, and put up on the screen.

    Show Notes

    Michael's Online Screenwriting Course - https://michaeljamin.com/course

    Free Screenwriting Lesson - https://michaeljamin.com/free

    Join My Watchlist - https://michaeljamin.com/watchlist


    045 - The Paradox of Being Vulnerable Sep 07, 2022
    Show notes

    As a writer, you're paid for being vulnerable. Your unique life experience is what makes your writing unique, but how you present that information is pivotal to telling a good story and not making people uncomfortable. IN This week's podcast, Michael Jamin and Phil Hudson discuss the paradox of being vulnerable in your writing.

    Show Notes

    Michael's online screenwriting course - https://michaeljamin.com/course

    Free screenwriting lesson - https://michaeljamin.com/free

    Join my watchlist - https://michaeljamin.com/watchlist


    044 - Day To Day, What It's Like To Be A Professional TV Writer Aug 31, 2022
    Show notes

    For many aspiring screenwriters, the day-to-day job is often romanticized and fantasized. In this episode of Screenwriter's Need To Hear This with Michael Jamin, we look at what Michael's everyday job is really like. If you've ever wondered what a professional TV Writer does in a day, this episode is for you.

    Show Notes

    Michael's Online Screenwriting Course - https://michaeljamin.com/course

    Free Screenwriting Lesson - https://michaeljamin.com/free

    Join My Watchlist - https://michaeljamin.com/watchlist


    043 - Should I Worry About People Stealing My Work? Aug 24, 2022
    Show notes

    Since I began engaging with aspiring screenwriters on social media, it became apparent that most of them are overly concerned with someone stealing their ideas. This is by far one of the most frequently asked questions that I get asked. Here's my answer for all of you stressing about registering with the WGA and filing a Copyright claim. Just remember, I'm not a lawyer.

    Show Notes

    Michael's Online Screenwriting Course - https://michaeljamin.com/course

    Free Screenwriting Lesson - https://michaeljamin.com/free

    Join My Watchlist - https://michaeljamin.com/watchlist


    042 - How I Would Break Into Hollywood Today Aug 17, 2022
    Show notes

    I get asked all of the time how to break into Hollywood. The bad news is that there is no one size fits all answer to this question. The good news is that it has never been easier. In today's episode, Phil and I tackle this question from the perspective of the technology and opportunities young screenwriters have that I didn't when I was breaking in.

    Show Notes

    Michael's Online Screenwriting Course - https://michaeljamin.com/course

    Free Screenwriting Lesson - https://michaeljamin.com/free

    Join My Watchlist - https://michaeljamin.com/watchlist


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