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    Volts

    Volts is a podcast about leaving fossil fuels behind. I’ve been reporting on and explaining clean-energy topics for almost 20 years, and I love talking to politicians, analysts, innovators, and activists about the latest progress in the world’s most important fight. (Volts is entirely subscriber-supported. Sign up!)

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    Copyright: © David Roberts

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    Latest Episodes:
    Volts podcast: the immense promise of a federal green bank, with Reed Hundt Sep 11, 2023
    Show notes

    In this episode, Reed Hundt, the CEO of the Coalition for Green Capital, discusses the merits of green banks, quasi-public or nonprofit institutions that provide seed capital to accelerate the growth of clean energy. There are more than 20 active green banks at the state level. Now Biden has proposed a federal green bank. Hundt explains how it could help.Full transcript of Volts podcast featuring Reed Hundt, August 13, 2021(PDF version)(Active version)As we speak, Democrats in Congress are at work putting together a budget reconciliation bill that will include enormous swathes of President Biden’s agenda, including his climate agenda.One of the policies being discussed for inclusion is the creation of a “Clean Energy & Sustainability Accelerator,” more commonly known as a green bank.The idea of a federal green bank has been floating around forever. There was one in the ill-fated Waxman-Markey climate bill of 2009 (which never made it through the Senate) and there’s been one introduced in Congress virtually every year since. But this time it might happen! So it’s time to brush up on what a green bank is and what it does.It would not, contrary to some popular misconceptions, be an agency of the federal government, nor would it finance projects purely with federal money. Rather, it would be an independent, nonprofit entity that uses an initial grant of federal money to pull private capital off the sidelines and into climate-related projects. After the initial grant, the bank would be self-sustaining.The model has been tested: there are green banks in more than a dozen states, which have generated $5.3 billion in clean energy investment since 2011, including $1.5 billion in 2019 alone. And there are more than 20 states where the process of establishing a green bank has begun.These state- and city-level green banks are popular and successful, but because states and cities tend to be short on funds, they too often lack the capital needed to fund worthy projects. Right now there are more than $20 billion worth of projects that are eligible for green bank funding and are now waiting. One of the roles of a federal green bank would be to capitalize all those local banks, to get all those projects rolling.To learn more about green banks, I was happy to talk to their greatest champion: Reed Hundt, the co-founder and CEO of the Coalition for Green Capital. Hundt has been advocating for green banks for over a decade — including seven years on the board of the Connecticut Green Bank — and it is largely through the coalition’s work that the network of state and local green banks has been established.I was eager to talk with Hundt about how a national green bank would work, the kinds of projects it would fund, how it would account for equity, and the potential if it’s done right, for a green bank to accelerate the clean energy transition. Reed Hundt, welcome to Volts, thank you for coming.Reed Hundt:Thank you very much. I was talking to a friend of mine in Tennessee and he told me that you're from Tennessee. He said that you were the best analyst and commentator about energy issues in the whole state of Tennessee.David Roberts:I don't know whether that's damning by faint praise?Reed Hundt:Well then I said to my friend, “No, no, the two of you are,” because the person I was talking to was my high school classmate Al Gore.David Roberts:Oh, funny! Yes, he and I have bonded over our Tennessee roots before. I want to talk about green banks with you, but real quick, by way of setting context before that, let’s talk history. Obama faced a similar situation [to the one Biden faces] — different in a lot of ways, similar in some ways. But you wrote a book about Obama's response to the crises he faced that was extremely critical of Obama. So as we contemplate what Biden should be doing in this similar situation, let's review real quickly, what did Obama do wrong and what does that tell us about how Biden should be approaching this mess?Reed Hundt:You're in a very small club, which is the club of people that know about the book called A Crisis Wasted, and as a founding member of the club, I’m very happy to have a new member. So the problem in 2008-09 was that, as Rahm Emanuel said at the time, a crisis is too good to waste. But all of the advice to the President-elect was small where it should have been big, constrained where it should have been bold, and was short range rather than long range. The people were not badly motivated, but in retrospect and at the time, their counsel was insufficient to meet the needs, not only of the moment, but of the next 10 years. The big difference for the Biden administration, and indeed for the entire Democratic Party in the current year, is the decision from the very beginning of this presidency and of this particular Congress to follow what Larry Summers himself said in 2008: the risks of doing too little are much much worse than the risks of doing too much. Larry didn't follow his own advice then, but the entire Democratic Party is taking it to heart now. The second learning that the Biden people took from the past was not to do just one thing at a time, in sequence, and then run out of time, but to do everything on every front as fast as possible, pressing on every single topic: the democracy agenda, childcare, the COVID relief, climate change, infrastructure. All topics are being pursued in parallel, simultaneously. The tactical decision of the Obama administration was to do one thing at a time, in sequence. The problem with that is that it played into the hands of opponents who correctly felt that, if they could delay action, ultimately inaction would triumph — entropy would take over. So the decision made by President-Elect Obama was to do climate change and energy legislation after healthcare, instead of simultaneously. The decision made by this President was to do them together, to do all things together. That's why the reconciliation package includes climate change measures as well as childcare. So there's two different things: one is go big, and the second is do everything in parallel.David Roberts:That strategy is coming to a head with the reconciliation bill, which, indeed, is gigantic and contains just about everything you could think of. It'll be a real interesting historical A-B test if this new strategy does in fact work better.Reed Hundt:And it's a test that has to be passed, right? In terms of the role of government in the United States to stop a climate catastrophe, this is the last chance.David Roberts:Among the things being proposed for inclusion in the reconciliation bill is a green bank. I've been following this area for a long time and I have heard about green banks, in the background or on the periphery, over and over again. It seems like an evergreen idea that never seems to get over the finish line. By way of framing this discussion, maybe you can just tell us in the simplest terms, what is a green bank?Reed Hundt:A green bank is a publicly funded institution that aims to combine public and private investment to build something. You have to believe that public-private investment is a good thing, or you won't like a green bank. Public-private investment is how we build all infrastructure, actually, so it shouldn't be too challenging to say, “Let's have public-private investment to build the clean-power platform.” Let me give you an example of the way that a road is built. A state government or a county government issues a bond; the bond is purchased by the private sector; the private sector then, through the mechanism of the bond, provides the money. And then, overwhelmingly, the state contracts out to the private sector to actually build the road. That's a public-private investment.The road might not be owned by the private sector, or it could be owned by the private sector, but the ownership is not the point — the point is that it was private money that was pushed through a municipal bond that created a form of financing that built the road. There are five major infrastructure platforms: sewage, water, transportation, communications, and power. For all five, there is some version of public-private investment. So point one is, we're talking about public-private investment. Point two is, to contribute the public side of it, let's have a national bank with a network of state and local banks. That's what the green bank idea is.David Roberts:One intuitive reaction to this is, if these projects are profitable for private funding and private financiers, what is the role of the public side of this public-private partnership? What is the state doing?Reed Hundt:The role is to cause the projects that wouldn’t otherwise happen to occur. They basically fall into three categories, which I call clean up, clear out, and catalyze. So here's clean up: invest public-private money in neighborhoods and communities where one, carbon energy is not affordable, and two, the byproducts of creating carbon energy are not breathable. That's investment in renovating homes so that they are using rooftop solar or community solar, so that they're insulated effectively. If you do that, in the low- to medium-income households in the United States, the cost of that investment per home will be greater than the income of the household. So somebody else has to provide the money; it has to be the contractor that says, “I'll put up the money and you'll pay me back over time.” That's the shared-savings model. Well, the private sector does not jump enthusiastically into that activity; it has made almost no headway into that particular market. That market’s potential size in West Virginia alone is more than $40 billion of investment.David Roberts:Let's pause here, because I think this confuses some people. There's a big pot of profit, there's a profitable market, there's money to be made. Why isn't private finance already flooding into these areas if there's so much money to be made? What’s the barrier?Reed Hundt:In the case of investing in low to medium households, our number one barrier is private sector investors don't know the space. Typically, even though the capital investment per household is twice the median income, that means it's only $80,000. So $80,000 - $90,000 financing, that's beneath the purview of major commercial financiers across the country. So that's the “too small” problem. Number two, there's the “don't understand” problem, meaning most private sector financiers don't know whether an individual household is a credit risk or not, and because they don't know they don't take the credit risk. Number three, they have more lucrative activities to engage in, many other more lucrative activities. So they say, “why put the money into an $80,000 upgrade of a household in Marshall County, West Virginia, where the return over time might be in the neighborhood of 4 percent or 5 percent a year. Why do that?” So it's not that it isn't profitable, it's that it isn't as profitable as investing in Microsoft or a data center or some other high growth activity. Therefore, the role of public investment is to catalyze the private investment to take a little more risk, to aggregate the small financing projects so that they can be sold as a package, to fund small businesses that will actually knock on doors and get people to agree to have the small business do the upgrade. Those are the primary roles the public part of the investment can play and then the private sector money is pulled in — the goal is to pull the private sector money in.David Roberts:Right. So the green bank is in a lot of ways taking on the transaction costs.Reed Hundt:Yeah, that's exactly right. That's probably the core point, you just made it. The “clear out” problem is to clear out the obstacles to massive private sector investment. As you know, a major obstacle in the electricity market is stranded costs, meaning the amount of money that a utility has invested in the old carbon power platform — they need to recover it somehow. The regulator of the utility says, “well, I have to recover what I invested in the old before I can invest in the new,” but we need them to invest in the new at an accelerated rate in order to stop climate calamity. So how do you get rid of the stranded cost problem? You have the green bank step in and say, “I'll help you out on the stranded cost,” and then the utility — which in 80-85 percent of the country is a private entity, not a public entity — goes, “oh, well fine, if the stranded cost problem is solved, I'll accelerate the move into the clean-power platform.” That's “clear out” obstacles.David Roberts:That sounds more like public grants, just giving them money so that they can clear their plate. Is there some way that that those kinds of things pay themselves back?Reed Hundt:Yeah, the technique is called securitization. You basically securitize the stranded cost, and the public entity gets paid back at a slow rate over a fairly long period of time.David Roberts:Right. So in this sense, the green bank is providing patience that private capital wouldn't.Reed Hundt:Yes, right. You clean up the hard-hit areas, you clear out the obstacles, and then that's how you catalyze the private sector investment. And the net result is that over a 10 year period the accelerator, which is the congressional name for a national climate bank, will pay for itself.David Roberts:Right. So this whole idea of a green bank is premised on the idea that markets are not, in fact, perfectly rational, and are, in fact, leaving all sorts of profitable opportunities on the table that they need to be nudged into.Reed Hundt:Or you can say that markets are not perfectly efficient. You would think the financial crisis of 2007-2009 proved that point for everybody, right? You’d think that the volatility of Robin Hood would be proving the point to anybody right now, but it's not really disputable that markets are not perfectly efficient at all times in all segments. The problem, when we talk about the transition from carbon power to clean power, is we can't wait for the markets to figure out how to achieve efficiency, because we've got to get rid of the emissions basically yesterday.David Roberts:So we would not be jumping into a national green bank without experience; you and the coalition that you lead have been helping to establish green banks in states and cities for years now. Tell us a little bit about what you've learned from that experience and how they are performing at that level. Are they doing better or worse than you expected?Reed Hundt:Better in all respects except one: we haven't been able to attract massive public sector capital.David Roberts:That’s because states don't have any right?Reed Hundt:That’s the why. Ben Franklin said, “experience keeps a dear school, but a fool will learn in no other,” so I'm the fool. We presented the idea of a green bank to Larry Summers, Tim Geithner, and Peter Orszag in the 2008-2009 transition, and they said they didn't want to do it, because they prioritized recapitalizing the big Wall Street banks. They didn't want to create a green bank. And also, the economists were suspicious of public-private investment.David Roberts:It seems like capitalizing a green bank, relative to the amount of money involved in recapitalizing the big banks, would have been kind of a rounding error. It's not really that much we're talking about, is it?Reed Hundt:As it ended up, the money for capitalizing Wall Street, which was appropriated by Congress, was $700 billion, and the Treasury Department did not even use $400 billion of that. They did not even use it.Davird Roberts:That would have been a nice…

    Full show notes at the publisher

    West Virginia needs the Biden energy agenda Aug 25, 2021
    Show notes

    As we speak, Democrats in Congress are hashing out the details of the budget reconciliation bill that will contain the vast bulk of President Joe Biden’s domestic agenda. It is meant to be passed alongside the recent bipartisan infrastructure package that came out of the Senate.

    One of the unique features of this political moment is that virtually every individual Democrat has the power to sink the whole enterprise — there are zero Dem votes to spare in the Senate and only a handful in the House — but if any of them sink it, it all goes down. If progressive Dems kill the bipartisan infrastructure bill, conservative Dems will kill the reconciliation bill, and vice versa. (House Speaker Nancy Pelosi recently agreed to hold a vote on the bipartisan bill on Sep. 27, but progressives have pledged not to vote for it unless reconciliation also gets a vote.)

    They either all succeed together or all fail together. And if they fail, the party will get crushed in 2022 and 2024. None of them will escape unscathed. They’ve got to make it work.

    For obvious reasons, there’s an enormous amount of speculation about how various Democrats will play their hands in these negotiations. I can’t claim to understand the motivations of everyone involved. The recalcitrant House “moderates” are some mix of irrational and malicious. Sen. Kyrsten Sinema is utterly opaque.

    But Sen. Joe Manchin makes sense to me, for the simple reason that I believe he has West Virginia’s best interests at heart. And that’s why I’m confident he’s going to find his way to supporting an ambitious reconciliation bill. He knows West Virginia needs it.

    The simple fact is, West Virginia’s energy economy is not on a sustainable course. US coal is on the way out.

    This is true across the country and it’s true in West Virginia. One of the state’s two big utilities, American Electric Power (AEP), will shut down 5,574 megawatts of WV coal generation by 2030, and the rest of it by 2040. The other, First Energy, has pledged carbon neutrality by 2050. The number of US coal mines continues to fall.

    Many of the states biggest private sector employers, like Walmart, Kroger, Lowe’s, and Proctor & Gamble, have set aggressive emission-reduction goals and are looking for clean electricity (which they must currently purchase out of state).

    The people of West Virginia largely understand that an inexorable energy transition is underway. They are scared it will leave them and their communities behind.

    West Virginia needs new investment and new jobs. They need leadership. Passing some version of Joe Biden’s American Jobs Plan (AJP) would be an enormous boon to the state and a political win for Joe Manchin.

    The American Jobs Plan would invest in West Virginia

    Last week, the Center for Energy and Sustainable Development at the WVU law school released a new analysis showing what a few key provisions of AJP would do for West Virginia’s economy. (It builds on a previous analysis demonstrating the feasibility of rapid decarbonization in the state.)

    Specifically, it models a “Clean Innovation Pathway” that would reduce carbon emissions from the state’s electricity system roughly 80 percent by 2030, taking into account two key policies from the AJP: extension/expansion of the clean-energy tax credits and the 48C Advanced Manufacturing Tax Credit, which invests in clean-energy manufacturing projects.

    Through 2040, the Clean Innovation Pathway reduces the cost of electricity by $855 million and increases employment by the equivalent of 3,500 full-time jobs, while pulling in $20.9 billion in investment in new solar, wind, energy storage, and other clean-energy projects.

    If Manchin’s American Jobs in Energy Manufacturing Act (which would expand 48C) were passed as part of the AJP, it would draw an additional $1.7 billion in manufacturing investments and create an additional 3,250-4,350 manufacturing jobs (plus 9,300-12,400 jobs created indirectly).

    Importantly, these numbers capture only a fraction of the AJP’s benefits to West Virginia. There are other investments in Biden’s plan that would land in the state.

    Carbon capture, utilization, and storage (CCUS) would get money for demonstration projects; money for a series of “pioneer projects” applying CCUS to steel, cement, and other heavy industrial plants; and a tax credit for carbon capture and storage.

    There’s money for economic development in coal country, reclamation of mines and wells, weatherization of buildings, regional innovation hubs, and much else that would channel investment into the WV energy sector.

    Perhaps most importantly: the analysis, done back in April, does not take into account the effects of a Clean Energy Payment Program (CEPP), which would offer federal payments to utilities that increase their deployment of clean energy — whether it’s solar, wind, geothermal, hydrogen fuels, or natural gas with carbon capture — and levy fines on those that fell short.

    In effect, federal revenue would pay for West Virginia’s transition to clean energy, rather than the bill falling on state ratepayers. By doing so, it would generate vast in-state benefits — in air quality and other health improvements, in jobs, in innovation and entrepreneurship — that would dwarf those of the other policies, at little cost to the state. (Precisely quantifying the benefits will have to wait on analysis of the final proposal, which I’m told is forthcoming.)

    If you add it all up, the AJP offers West Virginia tens of billions of dollars in federal investment to help kickstart an energy transition in the state. It’s an opportunity that won’t come along again any time soon.

    Manchin knows an energy transition is necessary, and that it’s underway elsewhere. He doesn’t want his state to get left behind.

    That’s what his constituents fear: being left behind. If they’re going to embrace an energy transition, they need to hear from leaders they trust, like Manchin, that it’s possible.

    West Virginians are nervous about the energy transition

    In national political circles, West Virginia is thought of as a red fossil-fuel state, which everyone takes to mean that the WV public supports fossil fuels and will fight any policy that hurts them.

    Polling shows things are not that simple.

    Recently the Nature Conservancy and the West Virginia Chamber of Commerce sponsored some detailed polling of West Virginians’ views on their energy future. (The polling, conducted by Research America, deliberately oversampled voters in coal country.) The results are fascinating.

    WV voters know that the state currently depends on coal and that it is being hurt by a broader national shift to clean energy. Quoting from the local Weirton Daily Times:

    When asked if respondents agree with the statement that coal is the backbone of the state and that renewable energy is hurting mining jobs, 59% of statewide respondents and 59% of coal country respondents agreed. But when asked whether they agree that the economy is shifting away from coal and fossil fuels towards clean and renewable energy sources, 69% of statewide respondents and 73% of coal country respondents agreed.

    They know (67 percent) that coal is not clean. And they are not wedded to it: 90 percent see benefits in shifting the state’s energy system toward clean energy like renewables and carbon capture, 68 percent support federal investments in clean energy jobs, and 68 percent support federal investment in clean manufacturing.

    What WV voters are wedded to is jobs. The poll asked about the most important thing politicians could do to help WV communities. Only 12 percent urged support of clean energy and only 14 percent urged support of coal. The overwhelmingly favorite answer, with 70 percent, was to bring more jobs.

    It’s not difficult to pull a coherent narrative out of these results. The people of West Virginia know their state relies on coal, they know the nation in trending away from coal and toward clean energy, and they want to be a part of the transition, but they fear losing more jobs and economic development.

    They need a trusted leader — Joe Manchin, for instance — to show them that the energy transition can bring them those jobs.

    Data for Progress has also done polling in West Virginia which backs up these findings. While the answers reflect a predictable partisan split, clear majorities of WV voters support transitioning to a decarbonized energy grid, offering incentives for the purchase of low-pollution technologies, supporting displaced fossil fuel workers, and leading in a clean energy economy.

    The latter two of these even draw support from a majority of Republicans. And even where there’s more opposition from Republicans, they are fairly evenly split.

    The political term for this is “wedge issue” — Manchin has the support of virtually all of his party on an issue that splits the opposition party. The AJP is his chance to take advantage.

    Manchin’s overwhelming interest, and West Virginia’s, lies in bringing federal investment to the state

    Manchin has been using his position in the majority to do right by West Virginia. In the bipartisan infrastructure bill, he steered money toward big investments that will benefit his state, in clean manufacturing and industrial decarbonization, the Appalachian Regional Commission, broadband expansion, and more.

    He has focused federal attention on WV coal communities, drawing state visits from Energy Secretary Jennifer Granholm and Labor Secretary Marty Walsh. He was instrumental in Biden creating a new White House Interagency Working Group on Coal and Power Plant Communities and Economic Revitalization and appointing West Virginia native Brian Anderson, director of the National Energy Technology Laboratory, to run it (and direct an initial $109.5 million in new investments).

    But now, as I have written before, the national Democrats have reached what is likely their last chance to do anything big for a decade or more, and it is far and away the biggest thing they will do. Manchin has it within his reach to sign a bill that will draw tens of billion of dollars to his state, to help it kickstart an energy transition that both he and a majority of his voters recognize is necessary.

    The alternative is … nothing. Republicans will never pass a bill like this. A Republican president might do more of what Trump did — rig the rules to allow fossil fuel companies to pollute a little more and draw a few more subsidies before they go under — but no Republican Congress is going to spend billions of dollars on West Virginia’s energy transition. It’s now or never.

    Manchin can be a hero to his state or he can allow the work of his political career to flame out in a burst of recrimination and failure. I am confident he’ll make the right decision, for himself and for West Virginia.


    This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.volts.wtf/subscribe

    Economists have quantified the economic risks of climate "tipping points." It's grim. Aug 18, 2021
    Show notes

    A trickle of transcripts!

    First up, an administrative note: many, many people have requested written transcripts of the Volts podcasts. And I want to provide them. But it’s going to take a while.

    I could produce the transcripts in a few hours if I were willing to simply send the sound files through a robot transcriber like Otter and accept the somewhat choppy results (which are generally around 85 percent accurate).

    However, I’m way too anal retentive to do that. And Volts readers deserve better! I want to clean the transcripts up — remove all the “sort of’s” and “kind of’s,” delete aborted or repeated sentences, polish up the grammar — so that they are as pleasant to read as they are to hear. (I’m not that precious about preserving the exact original words; I’m more interested in clearly capturing meaning in readable form.)

    That means closely copyediting these files, some of which are more than 10,000 words. So far, with a little help, I’ve gotten through … one. And it took about 10 people-hours of work. Sigh.

    Here’s the full transcript of my podcast with Rep. Sean Casten on “Hot FERC Summer” (and here’s a PDF version). For those who’d like a more compact version, here’s a highlight reel running on Canary.

    Hopefully these will get somewhat faster and easier going forward. I will let you know as they come out. Now, on to the main event.

    Pulling tipping points into climate economics

    Just about everyone familiar with climate change has heard about “tipping points.” Famed climate scientist Wallace Broecker first raised the possibility way back in 1987, and ever since then, they’ve loomed large in the climate discussion.

    The idea behind tipping points is fairly simple and familiar: as heat accumulates in the atmosphere, Earth’s geophysical systems may not simply adjust in linear fashion, alongside the incrementally rising temperature; in some cases, they may “tip over” some unpredictable threshold and enter a fundamentally new state, sometimes called a “phase shift.” Think of ice that has slowly cracked suddenly shattering, or “the straw that broke the camel’s back.”

    The commonly cited examples of potential tipping points are the Greenland and West Antarctic ice sheets. As warming has progressed, they have been shedding water and developing deep fissures. It is possible that at some (unpredictable) point, one or both will lose integrity and begin breaking apart altogether, irreversibly, raising global sea level dozens of feet in relatively short order.

    Because the consequences of some oft-discussed tipping points are rather apocalyptic, they have been used and misused for a long time in climate communications. It has somewhat annoyed climate scientists, because not only are these tipping points not a sure thing, each one is, in its own right, relatively unlikely.

    Civilization-ending changes are not likely, but they’re not zero probability either. Legendary Harvard economist Martin Weitzman called these low-probability, high-impact possibilities “tail risks” and was famous for warning that economists are not taking them into account — and are thus underestimating the need for rapid decarbonization.

    In his book Climate Shock, co-authored with his protégé, New York University’s Gernot Wagner, he argued that the right way to think about climate mitigation is not through a cost-benefit lens, as though particular levels of spending avoid specific levels of damages, but instead as a kind of insurance. We purchase insurance to cover against tail risks all the time, not because we think they’re likely to happen, but because the consequences would be so dire if they did.

    Weitzman has passed away, but Wagner and others have carried on this argument long enough that it has begun to break through in mainstream climate economics. However, it leaves a key question unanswered: yes, the risk of tipping points raises the value of mitigation, but how much? It has never been quantified.

    Into that breach comes a new paper in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (PNAS), from Wagner and a group of colleagues: Simon Dietz and Thomas Stoerk of the Grantham Research Institute on Climate Change, and James Rising of the University of Delaware.

    “Economic impacts of tipping points in the climate system” represents the first formal attempt to quantify the economic impacts of tipping point risks. The results are startling: the economic impact of carbon emissions is much higher than appreciated, as is the value of reducing emissions.

    Not that we needed much more evidence, but this study makes it clear that there is virtually no way we could overdo it on decarbonization. As Wagner told me when I called him to discuss the results, “I don't see a downside to doing too much too quickly.”

    The devilishly difficult task of quantifying risks

    The PNAS authors adopt a common definition of tipping points: “subsystems of the Earth system that are at least subcontinental in scale and can be switched—under certain circumstances—into a qualitatively different state by small perturbations.”

    They included the eight that have been studied by the IPCC:

    Thawing of permafrost leading to carbon feedback resulting in additional carbon dioxide and methane emissions, which flow back into the carbon dioxide and methane cycles.

    Dissociation of ocean methane hydrates resulting in additional methane emissions, which flow back into the methane cycle.

    Arctic sea ice loss (also known as “the surface albedo feedback”) resulting in changes in radiative forcing, which directly affects warming.

    Dieback of the Amazon rainforest releasing carbon dioxide, which flows back into the carbon dioxide cycle.

    Disintegration of the Greenland Ice Sheet increasing sea-level rise.

    Disintegration of the West Antarctic Ice Sheet increasing sea-level rise.

    Slowdown of the Atlantic Meridional Overturning Circulation modulating the relationship between global mean surface temperature and national mean surface temperature.

    Variability of the Indian summer monsoon directly affecting GDP per capita in India.

    It’s important to note that these are not all possible tipping points, just the ones that have been studied, so the PNAS study’s results are, as the authors emphasize, a “probable underestimate, given the literature we synthesize has yet to cover some tipping points and misses possible impact channels and interactions even for those it does cover.”

    In their survey of existing literature, the authors found 52 papers that quantified the economic impacts of one or more tipping points, but over half of those were based, not on geophysical data or analysis, but on highly stylized adjustments to model parameters. The authors put those aside. In the end, they focused on 21 papers that actually linked the geophysical mechanisms of tipping points to economic damages.

    The whizbang procedural move of the paper is to pull these different studies — many using different models with different assumptions — into a single “meta-model,” with replicas of each studied tipping point combined in a single framework. (There is a great deal of discussion of this methodology in the paper, and more in an extended appendix, if you’re interested.)

    The result is an ability to directly compare, and to sum up, the possible economic damages of tipping points. From there, applying a few conventional assumptions about discount rates and risk aversion, a model can spit out a number for the present-day costs of those future risks.

    Obviously, any estimate like this going to be somewhat faux-precise, involving all kinds of assumptions and probability ranges piled atop one another, so it must be taken as provisional and tentative, subject to further research. But still, it’s better than having no estimate at all.

    We are underestimating climate risks and overestimating the costs of action

    As its principal metric, the study uses the “social cost of carbon” (SCC), meant to capture the total social and environmental damage done by the emission of a ton of carbon dioxide.

    For convenience, it uses the current US government SCC figure, which is about $51. There’s a history behind this: Obama originally convened the working group that put the figure at around $50 during his administration. Under Trump, it dropped to about $1. Biden has bumped it back up to $51.

    “They undid the Trump damage and went back to decade-old assumptions,” says Wagner. Now, there is work underway to update the US government SCC with better numbers. “If you go to the most modern estimates and turn on the stuff that we think ought to be turned on — we know that there are tipping points, we need risk aversion, we need reasonable discount rates, and so on — you don't get to $50,” he says, “you get $250.” (For the true climate modeling nerds: that’s true even in DICE, William Nordhaus’s model.)

    I don’t know if the new number will be $250, but I’d be shocked if it were under $150. Anyway, that’s a subject for another post, because the PNAS study quantifies the relative increase in SCC when tipping points are incorporated rather than ignored.

    The headline result: “When modelled separately and then summed together, the individual tipping points increase the expected SCC by 24.5%.”

    The details:

    As you can see, the most costly tipping points are the release of ocean methane hydrates and permafrost carbon. A couple, like the Atlantic Meridional Overturning Circulation, average out to reduce the SCC. (A change in the AMOC might shelter some parts of Europe from the worst effects of climate for a while — though this effect might be overwhelmed as the damages are better understood.)

    The main thing to note is that 25 percent is not a small number. If we’re systematically underestimating the cost of carbon emissions by a quarter, we’re probably giving bad policy advice — badly underplaying the urgency of action.

    But another important note is that 25 percent is the median estimate of the effect of tipping points on SCC. Just as with estimates of the physical damages of climate change, estimates of the economic costs of tipping points have a long right tail.

    These are the tail risks Weitzman warned about, translated into economic terms. SCC could be higher if climate sensitivity is higher than estimated, if people are more risk averse, if discount rates are lower, if tipping points arrive sooner, or any number of other variables go the wrong way.

    What it means is, there’s a small-but-not-negligible chance that we are currently underestimating the cost of carbon emissions by as much as 250 percent or more. (Look at that “More” blob!) If that is true, we’re really giving bad policy advice, as in, “market mechanisms” vs. “wartime footing.”

    The policy implications of tipping points

    Let’s take a step back and review what we can learn from this study.

    First, economists have more or less been ignoring tipping points, which means they have systematically been underestimating the SCC. Best estimates put the amount of that underestimation around 25 percent.

    But that 25 percent is almost certainly a lower bound. The authors have built a framework that can plug in new data and analysis of tipping points as it comes along. It is almost certain that as more tipping points are studied and the interactions among them are better modeled, the estimate of their potential damages will rise.

    And again, remember that long tail. 25 percent is the median estimate, but the average estimate is 43 percent, and there’s at least a 10 percent chance of 100 percent — in other words, “there's a one in 10 chance that doing the calculation doubles the SCC,” says Wagner. “Holy s**t, right?”

    “So if you start with $150,” he says, “there's a 10 percent chance you'll end up with $300, just because of tipping points.”

    One in ten is not that small a chance. If the chances of a plane going down were one in ten, you probably wouldn’t board it. It probably wouldn’t be allowed to fly.

    This is the significance of tipping points: we are playing with fire, pushing Earth systems to the point that there is a small-but-real chance that some of them will break down entirely, entering phase shifts and becoming something permanently less stable and hospitable.

    If that happens, we will have consigned all future generations of human beings to inexorably and irreversibly deteriorating conditions. It is a crime worse than any genocide, worse than any atrocity conceived or conceivable, and even if there is only a small chance that we might stumble into committing it, we should be hyper-cautious. We should spend a lot of money to reduce that risk, to insure against it.

    You might notice that we are not, as a global community or within the US, expending $50/ton worth of effort to reduce emissions, much less $300/ton. In that sense, this study is just one more voice in the chorus urging policymakers to go bigger and faster on decarbonization.

    But it does put a fine point on the fact that there is effectively no way for policymakers anywhere to do too much, or to go too fast, on decarbonization. The risk of overdoing it is vanishingly small, all but impossible.

    We are currently underdoing it. We will be underdoing it even when we’re doing five times what we’re doing now. We will almost certainly be underdoing it for the rest of the lives of everyone reading this. That’s daunting, but it’s also clarifying.

    There’s only one direction to push: more and faster, forever and ever, amen.


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    Crunch time: this is America's last chance at serious climate policy for a decade Aug 07, 2021
    Show notes

    This is it, folks! The home stretch. It’s time to pay attention, call your members of Congress, and mobilize your networks.

    Congress is working on what is likely to be its last big shot at climate change policy for a decade or more. If things go well, the legislation will include a clean energy standard (CES) and clean energy tax credits, which together would revolutionize the US electricity system. If things don’t go well, there will be no substantial climate legislation for many years to come.

    That’s the only question being decided: Will we get a CES and tax credits, or will we get nothing that will tackle fossil fuels this decade? That’s the binary. It’s time to focus.

    Looking around, it doesn’t seem like clean energy supporters, climate hawks, or the left more broadly really get that. So let’s talk about why this is such an important moment and what’s at stake.

    The reconciliation bill is likely the last chance for big federal climate legislation

    The Democratic approach for a while now has been to proceed along dual tracks. On one track, there’s the bipartisan infrastructure bill, hammered out by a group of just over 20 senators from both parties. On the other track, there’s the budget reconciliation bill, which is meant to contain … everything else in Biden’s agenda. The former needs 60 votes; the latter can pass with 50 Democratic votes.

    This has always been a fraught and delicate strategy. It could crash and burn in any number of ways. But so far, at least, it is hanging together.

    The bipartisan group unveiled its bill this week; it is slowly inching toward a vote, though Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) is doing everything he can to slow it down and gum it up.

    It contains decent chunks of money for things that will indirectly help clean energy — transmission, demonstration projects, R&D — but it lacks anything that will directly confront fossil fuels in the coming decade, the sine qua non of adequate climate policy. As Robinson Meyer argues in The Atlantic, it is not a climate bill, not really.

    There’s no guarantee the bipartisan bill will pass, and there’s no way to know how the Senate’s bipartisanship fetishists, Sens. Joe Manchin (D-W.V.) and Kyrsten Sinema (D-Ariz.), will react if it doesn’t.

    But whether it passes or not, when it comes to decent climate policy, it’s all about the reconciliation bill. There won’t be another bill this big while Democrats control Congress, and they won’t control Congress for long. What Democrats are able to get through in the reconciliation bill is likely to be the last big federal climate legislation for a decade at least.

    This is the key thing to understand, so I’m going to repeat it: What Democrats are able to get through in the reconciliation bill is likely to be the last big federal climate legislation for a decade at least.

    (You may be thinking: can’t Democrats do another reconciliation bill next year? Yes, they can, but the midterms will be in full swing, moderates will be feeling even more cowardly than usual, political appetite for big spending will have dried up in the face of a recovering economy, and focus will have turned, hopefully, to voting reform. This one is it.)

    Absent substantial federal voting reform — which is looking less and less likely, certainly nothing anyone should bet on — all signs point toward Republicans taking back the House in 2022. It’s unclear what will happen in the Senate, but regardless, if the GOP controls either house, no climate legislation will pass (and no voting reform).

    Republican presidential candidates can win despite larger and larger losses in the popular vote. And the chances of Democrats controlling both houses of Congress again are only getting dimmer. The structural advantages that favor the GOP in the US system are only tilting further in its favor, while the party is actively extending those advantages with a wave of voter-suppression laws at the state level and an accompanying wave of gerrymandering, which alone could win the GOP the House in 2022, even absent any Dem seats being lost. The GOP is protected in this endeavor by a hyper-conservative Supreme Court (which, by the way, could get even more conservative if the disastrously vain Stephen Breyer hangs on until there’s a Republican president again).

    The conservative movement in the US is attempting to engineer one-party control of US government (along the lines of their new hero, Hungarian autocrat Viktor Orban). There’s no way to know how successful the endeavor will ultimately be, but it’s a pretty good bet, given current trends, that Democrats won’t control the presidency and both houses of Congress at the same time again for a long while. Last time they lost full control (just before a wave of gerrymandering in 2010), it was a decade until they got it back.

    That all begins in January 2023 — which makes this year’s reconciliation bill the Democrats’ last big shot at climate and clean energy policy.

    There are two key clean-energy policies on the table

    Climate folk are prone to endless policy arguments; everyone has their favorites. But most of those arguments are immaterial right now. Democrats have lined up behind a menu of clean energy policies in line with Biden’s climate plan. What’s on that menu is what might get in the bill. Might.

    If it’s not on that menu, it’s not going to get in. There’s no carbon tax. There’s no cap-and-dividend. There’s no prohibition on new fossil fuel infrastructure. You may support any and all of those policies, but they are not live options in the reconciliation bill.

    Right now, political pressure is best aligned behind options that actually are on the menu. Two in particular are immensely important — together, they would be transformative.

    The first is a Clean Energy Standard that would reduce electricity sector greenhouse gas emissions 80 percent by 2030. (Biden’s plan calls for 100 percent by 2035, but a reconciliation bill can only extend 10 years out.)

    It’s not actually going to be a standard, per se, because you can’t pass regulatory standards through reconciliation. Instead, it’s going to be a system of fines and payments that will incentivize utilities to increase their proportion of renewable energy to meet the targets. It’s called a clean electricity payment program (CEPP).

    A CEPP actually has some advantages over the traditional CES’s and renewable portfolio standards (RPSs) commonly seen in states. For one thing, it’s more progressive: the money to drive the transition comes from federal coffers (via taxes on corporations and the wealthy) rather than from electricity rates, which are regressive.

    If you’re interested in the details of how a reconciliation-friendly CEPP will be structured, see this piece from Ben Storrow and Scott Waldman of E&E, or this thread from Princeton professor Jesse Jenkins:

    The end result will be the same as a conventional CES: the US electricity grid will reach 80 percent decarbonization by 2030, which is an achievable but still incredibly ambitious target. As I’ve said so many times, nothing is more important to deep decarbonization than cleaning up the electricity grid. It’s the core of the “electrify everything” strategy.

    The second is boosted and expanded clean energy tax credits. The investment tax credit (ITC) and production tax credit (PTC), for solar and wind respectively, would be renewed, but various forms of tax credits would also be extended to energy storage, hydrogen, carbon capture, and other key clean energy technologies. (The details are in flux; for a blueprint, see the Senate Finance Committee’s Clean Energy for America Act or the House Ways and Means’ GREEN Act.)

    Tax credits will provide the supply push; the CEPP will provide the demand pull. The result will be an enormous surge of clean energy projects and jobs.

    This is the core of good climate policy: pushing fossil fuels off the grid over the next decade and replacing them with zero-carbon energy.

    There are other good climate provisions on the Democrats’ menu for reconciliation as well. I would love to see a Civilian Climate Corps. I’d love to see more money for public transportation and an electrified postal service fleet. Lots of smaller climate provisions might make it through just by virtue of not drawing much notice, which would be great.

    But the CEPP and the tax credits are the one-two punch needed to make a real short-term difference in the energy system. And they are on the menu.

    Manchin is likely to be skeptical of the CEPP. Although carbon capture counts as clean energy under the program, every analyst understands that the practical effect is going to be to ramp up renewables and ramp down fossil fuels on the grid. Manchin doesn’t actually want that.

    I have no idea if public pressure will have any effect at all on Manchin, but it couldn’t hurt. Might as well try it.

    The perilous path ahead for reconciliation

    Everyone on the left is aware that the reconciliation bill is the last big legislative train leaving the station, and every interest group wants a seat on it. Climate policy will be competing with other Democratic priorities. Especially as Sinema and Manchin arbitrarily reduce the total size of the bill, as they surely will, the factions of the party will be fighting it out over a shrinking pie.

    It is far from a sure thing that the CEPP and tax credits will survive negotiations. It’s all being decided right now. Everyone who cares about US climate progress should put aside their personal projects and preferences for a few weeks and speak in a unified voice. Call your representatives. Push the groups you’re involved with to make noise about it.

    It’s going to be the CEPP and tax credits or nothing big for climate. If both those policies are put in place, it could set the US power system on a new course and strengthen American credibility at the upcoming COP26 international climate meeting. If they slip through the cracks, climate will have to settle for scraps and the US will surrender all hope of meeting its climate targets or influencing others to do the same.

    For the next few months, this is all that matters. If you’ve ever considered getting involved, now is the time.

    Bonus dog


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    There's real long-duration energy storage now. Can it find a market? Aug 04, 2021
    Show notes

    (If you prefer listening to reading, just click Play above.)

    I’ve spent a lot of time on Volts discussing energy storage. As those who read my battery series know, lithium-ion batteries (LIB) currently dominate short-duration storage — in devices, cars, and buildings — and the durations they are able to economically provide are creeping up, from two to four to eight hours and beyond.

    However, as I explained in a separate post, the grid of the future, run primarily on renewable energy, will also need long-duration energy storage (LDES), capable of discharging energy for days or weeks.

    As that post covered, there are two basic challenges facing LDES. The first is technological: what sort of materials and processes can hold large amounts of energy for cheap?

    The second is economic: how can an LDES company make money? Currently, the role they propose to play on the grid (“firming” renewable energy) is being played by natural gas power plants. In a theoretical future clean-energy grid, those plants will be gone, or at least they will be saddled with the additional costs of carbon capture, but for now, they exist, and they are quite cheap. Consequently, there just isn’t much of a market for LDES, as battery industry veteran Cody Hill points out:

    A hot new startup called Form Energy believes it can overcome both challenges.

    Form Energy has the technology; now it needs customers

    I mentioned Form Energy in a previous post. The company — a kind of battery dream team, with Mateo Jaramillo (who built Tesla’s energy storage business), MIT’s Yet-Ming Chiang, and other veterans of previous battery companies — has finally revealed the battery it has been working on lo these many years.

    It uses iron as a cathode and air as an anode, in a process called “reversible rusting.”

    The best place to catch up on the news is Julian Spector’s piece. (Canary is doing amazing coverage of energy storage.) See also Russell Gold’s piece in the Wall Street Journal for deeper background on the company and its technology.

    Neither piece, however, gets deeply into the subject that most interests me, which is the second challenge: where to find markets. So I called Jaramillo to find out more.

    Not surprisingly, he sees a clear pathway to profitability. “We see a very compelling business environment for us over the next 10, 20, 30 years,” he says. “It's as much as we can go after, frankly.”

    Early markets for clean firming

    In terms of its function on the grid, the best way to think of Form’s battery is not as storage, but as the equivalent of a carbon-free natural gas plant. Rather than methane, it runs on renewable energy as fuel, but from the grid’s perspective, it provides basically the same service, which is reliable, dispatchable generation that can run for 100 hours or more when needed.

    The problem, as I said, is that natural gas is quite cheap. According to conventional wisdom, natural gas plants will dominate the firming game until policy begins driving them out of the system (or forcing them to install carbon capture). That’s what the models show: when decarbonization of the electricity grid (using mostly renewables and LIBs) goes past about 80 percent, costs begin to spike and more expensive clean firm options like LDES and nuclear become competitive.

    That conventional wisdom may be correct at the 30,000 foot level, but closer to the ground, things are much more complicated and varied. As Jaramillo notes, “there's no time at which the country will uniformly be at 80 percent renewables.” In fact, some nodes on the grid are close to that already. More to the point, Jaramillo says, there are a variety of situations in which grid operators need the services a natural gas plant provides but are leery about (or prohibited from) investing in gas.

    “Every single US coal plant in the system today has a retirement date on it,” he says, “and all of those dates are sooner than they were five years ago, and they will probably be sooner in two years than they are today.” That means lots of utilities around the country need to replace large chunks of power capacity.

    To date, they’ve been doing so with natural gas, but that may be changing. Remember, Form is not talking about entering the market in earnest until 2025. Between now and then, Jaramillo expects two macro trends to continue: first, renewables will keep getting cheaper and cheaper, and second, utilities will grow more wary of natural gas.

    “It's not full steam ahead to replace coal with natural gas,” he says. “Indiana [utility regulators] recently rejected a 850-megawatt combined-cycle gas plant and they specifically cited the risk of stranded assets.” Similar rejections of natural gas have taken place recently in Minnesota and Virginia.

    Great River Energy, a Minnesota-based electricity co-op, is hosting Form’s first demonstration project, a one-megawatt system capable of discharging for 150 hours continuously. Great River needs to replace lost coal capacity, but while they are under no statutory mandate to phase out natural gas, they “know how to read what direction the wind is blowing,” Jaramillo says.

    They don’t want to build a natural gas plant with a 30-year rated lifespan only to face a carbon price or a clean electricity standard (CES) forcing its retirement in 10 or 20. In the long term, gas is on the way out, and every natural gas plant built from here on out is a gamble that could very well come up stranded. That will only be more true in 2025.

    There are other reasons utilities might be trending away from natural gas. In California, of course, they are forced by laws mandating rapid decarbonization — and more states, like Washington, Colorado, and Oregon, are joining it in rapidly decarbonizing electricity.

    In the New England grid, they’re having trouble importing enough natural gas through the pipelines in times of peak demand; LDES could be the easiest way to ease grid congestion. In grids like Texas’s, natural gas has proven an extremely unreliable hedge against extreme cold snaps; LDES could help improve reliability margins for ERCOT, Texas’s grid operator.

    To achieve clean energy targets, many jurisdictions will have to overbuild renewables, increasing curtailment, or wasting of renewable energy. LDES could reduce or eliminate curtailment, allowing renewables to produce at full capacity whenever the weather is aligned. That would have the effect of further boosting the value of existing renewables — something else natural gas plants can’t do.

    Finally, there are commercial and industrial (C&I) entities who want to race down the decarbonization curve faster than the jurisdictions they are located in. Both Google and Microsoft have committed not just to running on 100 percent clean energy, but to running on 100 percent clean energy 24/7, throughout the year. Accomplishing that feat will require them to procure their own clean firm generation. C&I customers are the fastest growing segment of market demand for renewables and could prove a key early market for LDES.

    There’s no mass market for LDES yet — nothing like the hundreds of gigawatts we may eventually need — but there are several localized markets, adding up to several gigawatts of needed capacity, which is more than enough to keep Form busy from 2025 forward.

    Natural gas is as weak as people believe it to be

    So that’s Form’s case that it can find a market foothold. It sounds plausible to me, but then, I’ve heard lots of plausible-sounding stories from startups over the years … only to read about dead startups a few years later. Time will tell, etc.

    Two things give me some hope that Form might make it. The first is that the capacity price point it now claims ($20/kWh) is extremely low, already close to the price range it will need to start cutting into firm generation. And that’s just the beginning. If it can find a market and start scaling up, it should be able to bring down costs substantially. (It is basically building its demonstration project by hand; standardization and scale will bring enormous savings.)

    “We see, in a reasonable timeframe, being able to get to $10/kWh, all in, at the system level,” says Jaramillo. If it can pull that off, Form can start substantially cutting into gas markets. And “we are far from being done thinking about how we might displace ourselves,” he adds. “One characteristic of the team we built is that it's phenomenally creative.”

    So Form will be getting cheaper alongside renewables.

    The second thing is the sociology of the transition away from gas. Up until fairly recently, gas was seen as a “clean fuel,” reducing coal pollution. Elite opinion is currently lurching in the other direction. None other than Democratic Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer has publicly acknowledged that natural gas does not qualify as clean energy.

    Gas is the dominant fuel on US energy grids, and still growing, which has given it an aura of inevitability. Adding to that aura is a belief among many utilities that renewables and LIBs can not provide a reliable alternative to gas. They believe they need lots of dispatchable power.

    Those fears are likely overblown, especially at this early stage in the energy transition, but they are real. So the turn away from natural gas is tentative and scattered for now. If, in the latter half of the 2020s, alternatives like Form emerge, which allow utilities to build more of the cheapest generation available (renewables), the turn against gas could become more precipitous. Just as fear is contagious, so is FOMO.

    It’s one of the most important questions in clean energy right now: whether the shift in US electricity away from natural gas will be slow and steady or whether it will happen the way Hemingway’s character famously went bankrupt: gradually, then suddenly.

    It depends, in part, on psychology. The weaker gas looks, the more utilities will shy away from it. If Form — or other LDES — proves viable, it will represent the last piece of the puzzle, the key to a reliable, fully decarbonized grid. That could push US utilities closer to the point of a decisive break with gas.


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    Subsidies really do matter to the US oil & gas industry -- one in particular Jul 30, 2021
    Show notes

    Fossil fuel subsidies are a vexed and peculiar topic. On one hand, everyone seems to agree they’re bad and should be eliminated (it’s in Biden’s jobs bill, for instance). On the other hand, they never go anywhere.

    In part, it’s because we lack a clear understanding of what constitutes a subsidy and what impact they have. Analysts are forever arguing over exactly what counts, trying to tally up the total subsidies fossil fuels receive, but there are very few bottom-up attempts to document the concrete effects of subsidies on the economics of oil and gas projects.

    That’s why I was interested in this new paper in Environmental Research Letters, by Ploy Achakulwisut and Peter Erickson of the Stockholm Environment Institute and Doug Koplow of Earth Track. It breaks down the effect of 16 specific, direct US fossil fuel subsidies on the profitability and emissions of US oil and gas production.

    As for those subsidies, there are three basic categories: “forgone government revenues through tax exemptions and preferences; transfer of financial liability to the public; and below-market provision of government goods or services.” (Note that this study does not get into unpriced environmental externalities like air pollution and greenhouse gases, which are themselves a kind of subsidy.)

    Subsidies either enrich oil & gas investors or spur new oil & gas projects

    One reason there aren’t many bottom-up analyses like this is that it’s devilishly difficult to pin down the economic effect of a subsidy. Doing so always involves a counterfactual baseline — what would have happened absent the subsidy. Anytime counterfactuals are involved, there lots of assumptions to make and variables to account for.

    To take just a couple of examples, the effect a subsidy will have on the decision whether to invest in a new oil and gas project will depend on oil and gas prices and the hurdle rate. (The hurdle rate is the rate of return investors require to fully cover risks; more aggressive decarbonization efforts will presumably mean more risk and thus a higher hurdle rate.) The study actually runs several different scenarios based on different values for those variables, producing a cost curve for each region of the US. It gets complicated.

    For clarity, they chose to highlight two scenarios: 2019’s higher oil and gas prices with a 10 percent hurdle rate and 2020’s lower prices with a 20 percent hurdle rate. Here are the results:

    We find that, at 2019 average market prices of oil and gas, the 16 subsidies could increase the average rates of return of yet-to-be-developed oil and gas fields by 55% and 68% over unsubsidized levels, respectively, with over 96% of subsidy value flowing to excess profits under a 10% hurdle rate. At lower 2020 prices, the subsidies could increase the average rates of return of new oil and gas fields by 63% and 78% over unsubsidized levels, respectively, with more than 60% of oil and gas resources being dependent on subsidies to be profitable under a 20% hurdle rate.

    The way to think about this is, subsidies can have one of two negative effects, depending on market circumstances.

    With higher prices and a lower hurdle rate, “only 4 percent of new oil and 22 percent of new gas resources would be subsidy-dependent, pushed into making profits,” Achakulwisut told me. That means most of the projects didn’t really need subsidies and the extra money is all going to bigger profit margins for oil and gas investors.

    With lower prices and a higher hurdle rate, “subsidies would matter a lot,” she says, “and 61 percent of new oil and 74 percent of new gas would be subsidy-dependent.” The subsidies would directly lead to more production.

    Achakulwisut summarizes: “In one case, it's going to profit, amplifying the incumbent status of the oil and gas industry. In another, under more aggressive decarbonization policy and low oil and gas prices, it's actively working against the climate goal by spurring additional production.”

    Either of those effects is bad. In 2021, we don’t want bigger profit margins for oil and gas companies and we don’t want more oil and gas production.

    One subsidy to rule them all

    What’s interesting is that the benefits to oil and gas are not spread evenly over different subsidies. In fact, one in particular dwarfs the others: the expensing of intangible exploration and development costs (“intangible drilling costs,” or IDC), a policy that’s been around for over a century.

    The chart below shows the “average effect of each subsidy on the internal rate of return (IRR) of new, not-yet-producing oil and gas fields, at average 2019 prices of USD2019 64/barrel of oil and USD2019 2.6/mmbtu of gas.”

    As you can see, in every region, the IDC deduction is the dominant subsidy. It “increases US-wide average IRR by 11 and 8 percentage points for oil and gas fields respectively.”

    The IDC deduction has been the subject of controversy for ages. The Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget (CRFB) has a good breakdown here. A definition:

    Intangible drilling costs are defined as costs related to drilling and necessary for the preparation of wells for production, but that have no salvageable value. These include costs for wages, fuel, supplies, repairs, survey work, and ground clearing. They compose roughly 60 to 80 percent of total drilling costs.

    Since the dawn of the federal income tax code in 1912, US law has allowed oil and gas companies to deduct all these costs up front, rather than as they are incurred. The idea is to defray the risk that an exploration project will come up dry; in practice, it’s a fat financial reward at the front end of every project.

    The industry and its defenders offer an array of arguments in favor of the deduction, which CRFB adeptly summarizes:

    Supporters of the deduction argue that oil and gas and exploration and development is a high-cost industry, and allowing expenses to be recovered immediately encourages companies to invest. They explain that altering the deduction could result in job losses, since wages are included in the deduction.

    More broadly, supporters point out that the oil and gas industry receives the same treatment that other manufacturing or extractive industries receive, and are merely a target because of the now-controversial nature of reliance on fossil fuels. Finally, supporters of energy independence often support the IDC deduction, as it promotes further exploration and development of wells within the United States.

    The thing is, all those arguments are true. But the subsidy is still bad.

    Yes, deducting IDCs encourages investment in new oil and gas projects and creates new jobs. That’s what subsidies do! It just happens that we no longer want to encourage investment in oil and gas.

    Yes, other manufacturing and extractive industries get similar deductions. The difference is that we want to encourage investment in those other industries and we no longer want to encourage investment in oil and gas. That’s the whole point.

    The issue is not whether the subsidy does what it’s designed to do. It does. The question is whether we still want to do the thing it does. We do not.

    People have been calling for removal of this subsidy for decades. It’s still a good idea.

    Oil and gas also benefits from offloading its environmental regulatory costs onto the public

    The other subsidies that substantially boost oil and gas profit margins are “regulatory exemptions that lower [oil and gas] production costs at the expense of the health and safety of workers and the public.” Two such exemptions shift financial liability for well closure and reclamation from companies to state governments, which saddles places with lots of abandoned wells — Texas, Pennsylvania, and Oklahoma, for example — with an average of $10 billion a piece in remediation costs, which well exceeds what those states have set aside in cleanup funds.

    Another allows oil and gas to treat solid wastes from extraction as non-hazardous, despite the fact that they frequently contain toxic chemicals or radioactive materials. This reduces per-well operational costs an average of $60,000.

    Keep in mind, this study didn’t try to tally up the public health benefits of removing these subsidies. Others have done so, like a recent study from Yale’s Matthew Kotchen that tried to tally up the “implicit subsidies” to US fossil fuel producers represented by “externalized environmental damages, public health effects, and transportation-related costs.” His conclusion:

    The producer benefits of the existing policy regime in the United States are estimated at $62 billion annually during normal economic conditions. This translates into large amounts for individual companies due to the relatively small number of fossil fuel producers.

    Those implicit subsidies are far larger than any direct subsidies. In 2017, the International Monetary Fund tried to tally up implicit subsidies across the globe and came up with an eye-popping $5.2 trillion.

    Like much climate policy, removing fossil fuel subsidies requires directly confronting fossil fuels

    I take three things from this research. One, fossil fuel subsidies really do strengthen the economics of US oil and gas companies and accelerate investment and exploration. That’s what they’re designed to do, and they do it. Two, the oil and gas industry really does materially benefit from being allowed to offload its environmental risks onto the public.

    And three, the deduction for intangible drilling costs is the main fight. It is the big subsidy, the one that’s actually pushing new oil and gas projects over the line into profitability, and it is a much more specific target than “fossil fuel subsidies.” It seems like something some clever group ought to be able to build a campaign around.

    It’s worth noting that Joe Biden’s proposed 2021 budget would eliminate the IDC deduction, along with a host of other fossil fuel subsidies. Then again, Obama included the same kinds of provisions in virtually every one of his budgets, and Congress never complied. Like I said, fossil fuel subsidies just hang around.

    In this way, they represent the sad reality of federal climate policy in the US, which involves a lot of heady talk and future targets, but very little that would confront fossil fuel industries head-on over the next decade. (I wrote about this the other day.)

    The problem is that the benefits of fossil fuel exploration and production are concentrated in a few regions and communities and the members of Congress who represent those communities are hyper-motivated to preserve existing advantages. In contrast, the benefits of ramping down fossil fuel production are spread out, geographically and temporally, so few members of Congress will champion it with the same vigor.

    That’s how climate policy runs aground in the US — in the translation from high-flown rhetoric to policies that will materially affect the bottom lines of fossil fuel companies.

    This study offers us a marker of serious commitment: repealing the deduction for IDCs. When Congress actually gets around to addressing that age-old subsidy, we’ll know we’re finally getting somewhere.


    This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.volts.wtf/subscribe

    Volts podcast: Rep. Sean Casten on Hot FERC Summer Jul 28, 2021
    Show notes

    In this episode, Rep. Sean Casten (D-Il.), the House Democrats’ resident clean-energy expert, discusses the importance of the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission, the influence it has over US decarbonization, and the urgent need for Biden to appoint a new commissioner. We also get into our favorite FERC orders!Full transcript of Volts podcast featuring Rep. Sean Casten, July 28, 2021 (PDF version)David Roberts:Greetings. Welcome to the Volts Podcast. I am your host, David Roberts. As Volts subscribers are well aware, the fastest way to decarbonize the US economy is through clean electrification — decarbonizing the electricity sector and shifting energy use in other sectors like transportation and buildings over to electricity.How can the federal government help that process along? Most control over power utilities and markets lies at the state level. There's only one federal agency with real jurisdiction over electricity: the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission, or FERC.FERC is not an agency people many people follow, or even know about — in fact, in the Volts household, it has become a kind of jokey shorthand for "the boring stuff dad writes about."But it could play a key role in implementing Biden's climate agenda. And it has come to a crucial crossroads. FERC has five commissioners. Currently, three are Republicans, but one of them, Neil Chatterjee, came to the end of his term on June 30. He has agreed to stay on temporarily because Biden, somewhat inexplicably, has yet to formally nominate anyone to replace him. Until he does, and the Senate confirms, the commission will not have a Democratic majority and won’t be able to get anything big done. That’s unfortunate, because FERC has lots of big decisions to make — about transmission, electricity rates, and markets — with potentially transformative consequences. But the agency moves slowly, with rulemakings taking months or years, and it only has three and a half years to get everything done. Biden needs to get someone in that seat.Enter Rep. Sean Casten. The Democrat from Illinois' 6th District, which includes wide swaths of the western suburbs of Chicago, is trying to draw attention to FERC and the importance of a bold and climate-minded new commissioner. He’s leading a communications campaign called "Hot FERC Summer," a twist on Megan Thee Stallion's "Hot Girl Summer." (Hey, nobody said getting eyes on FERC was easy.) Casten, a member of the House Select Committee on the Climate Crisis, recently delivered a floor speech filled with Stallion-related puns of varying cheesiness, calling on Biden and Dems to nominate and approve a new commissioner quickly. He has also co-authored bills on transmission siting and ratemaking that clarify and reinforce FERC's obligation to take climate change into account in its decisions.I have known Sean since the 2010s, when he was the CEO of a waste heat recovery company called Recycled Energy Development. His long experience in the clean energy industry informed some sharp analysis, and he occasionally wrote guest posts for my blog at Grist, the environmental news site I worked for at the time. As you can imagine, it was a delight to see him win a seat in Congress in 2018, bringing his deep energy expertise to a body that has often lacked it. I was excited to geek out with him about FERC and the state of congressional energy politics.Rep. Sean Casten, welcome to Volts! Rep. Sean Casten: So happy to be here, David. David Roberts:Sean, I knew you back when you reached the pinnacle of your career: I'm talking, of course, about when you were writing guest blog posts for me at Grist. Rep. Sean Casten:Really, it's been downhill for both of us since we left Grist. David Roberts: Suffice to say, you know more about energy than the average bear; probably considerably more, I would say, than the average congressperson. So before we get to FERC: When you got to Congress, would you say that the average clean-energy literacy of your colleagues in Congress was higher or lower than you expected going in? Rep. Sean Casten:Oh, that's the kind of question that could get me in trouble for throwing people under the bus, but let me maybe offer one of the best pieces of wisdom I got on getting sworn in. Jamie Raskin, who of course everybody knows now because of his work on impeachment, is just a wonderfully kind and decent person. And he said to me, when I was just sworn in and trying to figure out the ropes of this place, he said, “This is a job that makes you very broad, but it's very hard to have the time to get deep. And if you want to know how to get things done, ask people why they first ran, because that's a really good shorthand way to find out where people are deep. If you really want to do something on healthcare policy or criminal justice, it'll help to know who those are.” So I've tried to follow that policy. I've asked around, and I will tell you that I have not met a lot of people who said, “I ran because I care about energy policy” — which is not a criticism, because they did run for other reasons, and they have depth in other areas. But historically, energy policy is not the kind of thing that pollsters say, “the voters demand somebody who really appreciates the nuances of obligation-to-serve and ratemaking proceedings,” right? So yes, it's lonely. It's just not a way that people typically get into Congress.David Roberts:Well, all of the sudden, these issues are on the front burner, and everybody in Congress is expected to know a bunch of stuff about them. Have you found that people are open to being educated? Is there a crash education process happening?Rep. Sean Casten:There is and there isn’t. It's interesting, I find that energy policy is a lot like foreign policy in the sense that most voters don't care, but we [Congressfolk] make decisions that are really impactful. So it becomes an area where members are very deferential to staff. I am as well; I don't claim to be an expert on, you know, the situation going on in Afghanistan right now. But I trust that there are staff on the Foreign Affairs Committee, and their job is to understand that.So yes, members are receptive. But what's hard on issues like energy policy is that the job of a congressional staff person is to figure out how to get done what is politically possible; the job of a staff person is not to move the Overton window. It’s hard to get members who are confident enough in their own skills to really try to push the envelope on energy policy.David Roberts:Let's talk about FERC, the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission. Whenever I tell people I'm writing about FERC, the eye glaze is almost instant. So maybe just tell us, why should ordinary people care about FERC?Rep. Sean Casten:The way you stop people's eyes from glazing over with FERC is you couple your conversation with a picture of Megan Thee Stallion and some hip-hop lyrics. I've found this week that is a very effective way to keep people engaged.We can get to that, but look, stipulate a couple things. Number one, we have to get to zero carbon way faster than anybody is even talking about in the most ambitious world right now. Number two, as you've so eloquently explained, it's really hard to see how we do that without “electrifying everything.” If that's going to happen … let's just talk about the transportation sector: the transportation sector uses about as much primary energy as the electric sector uses today. So if we were just going to electrify the entire transportation sector, we need to build about as much electricity generation as we already have, and then build a whole lot of wires to connect that new generation that's going to be in different places — because it's going to be where the sun and the wind and the renewable resources are, not where the coal seams are — up to loads in new places along highways and homes and apartment buildings. And that's just for the transportation sector. The Department of Energy has no meaningful jurisdiction over those questions of generator siting, generator installation, generator permitting, transmission siting, the markets that regulate and give people an incentive to deploy capital. The EPA doesn't really have a lot of jurisdiction over that; they have some on the environmental side. Department of Transportation doesn't really have much jurisdiction over that. FERC does. And so, if we are going to do what's necessary on climate, FERC is really the only agency that has the tools necessary to do what is environmentally necessary, even though it's not an environmental agency. That's why you should care.David Roberts:Yeah, it's the only piece of the federal government that gets directly at electrification. I'm not sure people really understand that. Before we jump into some of the substantive issues FERC is wrestling with, the big thing going on with FERC right now has to do with commissioners. There are five commissioners on FERC; by statute, two of them have to be from the minority party, and three can be from the majority party. It's been a long time since there were three Democrats, but it might happen soon. What's the state of play there?Rep. Sean Casten:Yeah, hugely important. McConnell largely stonewalled Obama's [FERC] appointments, so it's been not as effective as it could be for a long time (like most things McConnell touches). Chairman Chatterjee — well, I should say former Chairman Chatterjee, now Chairman Glick; he was the chairman before Glick was elevated — his term expired in June. So technically he's off; he is agreeing to stick around until the new nominee comes in. I actually get along pretty well with Chatterjee; he and I have spent a fair amount of time together, in spite of the fact that he started his career as an energy aide to Mr. McConnell and comes from the coal belt. I think he's been more forward-thinking than a lot of people thought he would. But he still is not, by his nature, going to lean in on some of the transformational issues in the power sector. So with him gone, the president has the opportunity to appoint someone; there are several names being thrown out that have been vetted. I'm very long on rumors of the status of that process. But what I can say factually is that the Biden administration, as we talk right now, has not affirmatively put one of those names forward. And therefore the Senate has not started confirmation hearings. That really needs to accelerate, because until they've got a 3-2 majority, they can't initiate the hearings; until they've initiated the hearings, they can't do the ANOPRs — the announcements of proposed rulemakings — for public comment; until they do those, they can't do the orders; and until they do the orders, the markets are not going to start responding to the ways that they might change these structures. We don't have a lot of time.David Roberts:Yes, those things take a lot of time.Rep. Sean Casten:Yeah. So it just needs to go right away. I'm quite certain that if the White House wanted to, they could twist arms and put some pressure to make that process move a little faster. I'm also quite aware that they have a lot of things on their plate, and they can't do all of them. So I'm hoping it'll come quick. But it's already not as quick as I'd like it to be.David Roberts:Well, speaking of rumors, do you have any theories about the lack of urgency here? Because presumably there are staffers up there who appreciate that FERC is the only route to a lot of President Biden’s goals. Do you think they're just not paying attention? Or do you think something else is going on? Rep. Sean Casten: I'd be purely speculating, but I think it’s probably not unreasonable to conclude that it's related to how this conversation started. It is not just your listeners whose eyes glaze over when we talk about the importance of the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission. So there's not been a tremendous amount of political pressure to expedite this, as much as there has with, say: we need to get new FTC staff appointed so that we can talk about what we're going to do with social media companies and antitrust; we need to get an attorney general to reconcile with the issues of the Trump administration and the horrible things going on with white supremacy in this country. Those are really important issues too. But those have tended to attract a bit more political attention than this particular agency.David Roberts:I have also heard rumors that there's some talk of the FERC nominee being used as a kind of bargaining chip to get centrist or moderate Senate votes for this reconciliation bill. Do you know anything about what's going on in the Senate behind the scenes on that?Rep. Sean Casten: I am not familiar with that specific rumor; that doesn't sound implausible. I think it is safe to say that anything meaningful we are going to do on climate is not going to be done in a bipartisan basis. I wish that wasn't true. It's tragic. But the way that our Democratic and Republican seats in Congress are distributed right now more or less tracks to the way that the energy-producing regions and energy-consuming regions of the country are distributed. And so anything that a functioning FERC would do to accelerate the deployment of lower-cost technologies — which also, by the way, is the deployment of cleaner technologies — implicitly is going to create a huge wealth transfer from energy producers to energy consumers, and therefore, from the empty, depopulated red parts of the country to the concentrated, populated blue parts of the country. I don't think it's intentional that the parties have aligned that way. But it means that it's very hard to … you know, I've said to some of my colleagues across the aisle that if your district loses $100, and mine gains $1,000, I can understand why we're both not going to yell, “Kumbaya, we've created $900 of value for the American people!” So yes, I think those who would prioritize bipartisanship in this moment — you can insert any name you would like into that box — do not overlap very well with those who prioritize the urgency of climate action.David Roberts:Well said. OK, speaking of the issues that FERC has its hands on, let's start with transmission. Transmission used to be a rather sleepy topic that not a lot of people cared about, but all of the sudden it's hot, it's in the news, everybody's talking about it. FERC has an open docket on transmission right now that they're getting ready to launch into, which everyone's very excited about … for some values of “everyone” …Rep: Sean Casten:Once a philosopher, always a philosopher. I can hear you describing those Venn diagrams. David Roberts:So what is wrong with transmission and what can FERC do to fix it? I know you have a bill specifically about FERC and transmission, but I'm also interested in what FERC can do on transmission without a clarifying bill, and what it really needs a bill from Congress for.Rep: Sean Casten:Let me take them in reverse order, because I think there's two problems with transmission. The first is that it is really, really hard to get a transmission project permitted in a timely fashion. And that is the result of the fact that there is no controlling agency for a transmission project. If you want to build a wire to connect the wind in Iowa to the electric loads in Chicago, every time that wire crosses a town line, a county line, a state line, you've got a different group of people who can object — as compared to natural gas, where you can have a single controlling agency, w…

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    Volts podcast: rampant environmental rule-breaking and how to fix it, with Cynthia Giles Jul 14, 2021
    Show notes

    In this episode, career environmental regulator Cynthia Giles discusses the rampant rule-breaking common in environmental rule and regulations and how to solve the problem — not with greater enforcement, but with smarter rule design.Full transcript of Volts podcast featuring Cynthia Giles, July 14, 2021(PDF Version)David Roberts:The US has hundreds of environmental rules and regulations on the books, meant to achieve various environmental goals — clean up coal plants, reduce toxins in consumer products, limit agricultural waste, and so on.Once these rules and regulations are put in place, most people don’t give them a lot of thought. To the extent they do, they tend to believe two things: one, that environmental rules are generally followed (maybe, what, 3-5 percent break the rules?), and two, that the answer to noncompliance is increased enforcement.According to Cynthia Giles, both those assumptions are dead wrong. Giles was head of EPA’s Office of Enforcement and Compliance Assurance for all eight years of Obama’s presidency — and had a long career in environmental enforcement before that — so she knows something about rules and enforcing them. Through the Harvard Environmental & Energy Law Program, where she is a guest fellow, Giles has been writing a series of pieces (which will be issued as a book in 2022) on “Next Generation Compliance: Environmental Regulation for the Modern Era.” In those pieces, she reveals that environmental rule-breaking is absolutely rampant — and that there’s surprisingly little increased enforcement can do about it. Instead, the key is to design rules better, such that compliance is the default choice.I’m a sucker for policy design, so I was eager to talk to Giles about what she’s learned, how to design rules well (or poorly), and most of all, the best way to design climate rules. With no further ado, welcome to Volts, Cynthia.I really enjoyed your articles. As I was saying on Twitter earlier, I love it when I discover an expert who's making a well-argued, well-cited argument in favor of something I believe already but didn't have the chops to defend myself. I feel vindication. There's a number of mind-blowing things in here, but one of the initial mind-blowing things that people don't understand very well is just how common violations and rule-breaking are. You spent eight years as head of EPA enforcement for Obama. I'm curious: before going into that position, did you know this about environmental rules? Cynthia Giles: This is certainly something I had strongly suspected for a long time. I've worked in the environmental enforcement arena for a long time and I persistently saw a mismatch between what I was seeing in the field and what I was hearing so many people say — that compliance with environmental rules was good. After I started in my position in the Obama administration, I asked folks to pull together everything we know about how compliance is with environmental rules. And I discovered that the evidence supported what I had suspected all along, which is that the rate of violations is substantially higher than most people think.David Roberts: What do we mean by substantially higher? Give us a sense of the scale here.Cynthia Giles: I'll give you the contrast between what's popularly believed and what the facts are. As I mentioned, I have spent most of my professional career in environmental and compliance-related work. During that time, including during the Obama administration, I've asked a lot of people what they think the rate of non-compliance with environmental law is. The most common answer I get, including from people who have also spent their entire professional careers working in this area, is 5 to 10 percent. That's what people think.It's nowhere near that. Not close. The rate of serious violations, the ones we care about the most, is 25 percent in most programs. And there are plenty of programs, I'm sorry to tell you, with rates substantially worse than that. It's not rare to find serious violation rates in the 70 percent and higher range. I want to make sure I'm clear: when I'm saying someone has serious violations, I'm not saying they're violating every single thing, every day, 24/7 — but they are having a lot of violations we care about, in terms of protecting people's health. So the rate is substantially worse than most people think. And that's just the ones we know about. There's plenty where the data is thin — indications are bad, but the data is not there to say anything definitive about it. David Roberts: There are all sorts of bad things about common violations, but the central bad thing is that we're not achieving the goals of these rules and regulations. If violations are 50 percent, you're getting 50 percent of what you think you're getting out of the rule, right?Cynthia Giles: There's a lot of areas where we know there are environmental problems — over 130 million people in the United States live in areas that don't meet the health standards for air quality, and almost half of the waters in the United States are designated as poor quality. There's a lot of evidence about serious issues that affect people's health that are widespread, and certainly this incredibly high rate of violations is a significant contributor to that.David Roberts: You come into EPA in this enforcement position and inherit a bunch of rules that you have to enforce, but you didn’t have a hand in designing. The other intuitive belief people have about this is, insofar as there are violations, insofar as people are breaking the rules, the solution to that is better enforcement. From your experience at EPA, how much can you do with additional enforcement? Can you substantially increase compliance? What's the range of effect you can have?Cynthia Giles: That very much depends on the problem. For some of the most serious and high-rate violations — coal-fired power plants are one example; for many, many years, they were by far the highest-polluting sector and the rates of violation were stunning — EPA decided, correctly in my view, that the health risk was so substantial, and the violation rate was so serious and egregious, that EPA would just sue all the coal fired power plants. One at a time, they’d go after them. It was essential for public health that they be made to comply and install modern pollution controls — which by the way, reduce pollution by 95 percent. I mean, we're not talking about minor differences. It was really, really big. Some of these problems — coal-fired power was one, cities that were discharging raw sewage into surface waters around the country was another — were so serious from a public health perspective that EPA decided to go after them individually. That is not a strategy that can work for the vast array of programs that EPA administers. Some sectors have a million or more regulated entities, or it's hard to tell who's violating. For those kinds of problems, enforcement as your first line of defense is obviously not going to be able to do it. You don't have the resources to do it. But you couldn't do it even if you did nothing else but that one thing. So for many problems, enforcement can never be the principal way of solving noncompliance.David Roberts: And even in cases where enforcement can force broad compliance, it is raising the cost of the regulation. Every one of those lawsuits costs money and time.Cynthia Giles: Coal-fired power is a terrific example. The work to address air pollution from coal-fired power plants has been going on now for more than 20 years, and every one of those years has consumed a lot of people, millions of dollars of money for investigators, enforcement staff, etc. So that kind of approach is really expensive. Sometimes it's worth it, like it was for that sector, and like it was for cities and raw sewage, but most of the time, it's not a feasible strategy.David Roberts: It's hard not to look back at our history with coal-fired power plants and think that some heavy-handed, super-simple mandate back in the ‘70s, however economically inefficient it was, was definitely not going to be so inefficient that it costs as much as as suing every coal plant for for 20 years.Cynthia Giles: Yeah, I don't think anyone would sit down and say, here's our plan, we're gonna just do them all individually. Beyond the expense, you don't get the benefits until the cases are over and the company installs. You have a 5, 10, 15 year delay in the public health benefits. For both of those reasons, it is not a sensible strategy. Plus, if you take another example that's top-of-mind today, oil and gas wells and pollution, there's over a million wells in the United States. That kind of strategy is hopeless for that. David Roberts: The key insight at the heart of all your work is that the difference between a rule that is generally complied with and a rule that is generally not complied with does not come down to enforcement — the degree of enforcement, or the strength of enforcement. It's much more to do with the design of the regulation. So let's start with an example of a rule that is poorly designed, such that it renders non-compliance inevitable and fails to meet its goals. What's a good example of doing it badly?Cynthia Giles: The perfect storm of a bad-compliance design was a program called New Source Review that Congress started and EPA was charged with implementing, that had a goal of cleaning up the largest sources of air pollution as they modernize. They exempted existing sources from the tougher controls, but said, you'll have to install them as you modernize your plant. That was Congress's theory, that over time, the largest sources of air pollution, including but not limited to coal-fired power, would gradually clean up their act.David Roberts: And the presumption was that of course they're all going to modernize at some point. Cynthia Giles: And they did modernize. But they took advantage of — and manipulated, frankly — the rule to modernize but avoid having to install the pollution controls. The New Source Review program was set up so that every determination of when are you modernizing enough such that you trigger the obligation to install pollution controls was a very fact-intensive site-specific decision. There was no general rule; every inch of ground was fiercely fought over. Then there was almost no reporting required, so the companies held the information that was necessary to determine if they had crossed that threshold, and they weren't going to give it to EPA without a fight. It was quite expensive to install these modern controls. It was totally worth it, because of the huge public health gains — well worth it from a regulatory perspective; the benefits far outweigh the costs. But it gave the companies a lot of incentive to fight. So what happened after that rule was put in place was exactly what somebody who's looking at rules through the next-generation compliance lens would predict, which is they look for ways around, they obfuscate, they withhold evidence, they fight, and they litigate. Every case takes years and years and years to get done. They lose in the end, in almost all cases, but they've gained some time. All the economic incentives lined up behind not complying. So that's an example of a disastrous design.David Roberts: That's a rule where, inadvertently, you've created a massive financial incentive for cheating. It is in the rational self-interests of some of these coal plants to fight and delay. It makes absolute sense for them. You could even argue, insofar as they're beholden to shareholders, that it's their obligation to fight. Cynthia Giles: Their obligation is to comply with the law, and they weren’t complying. They knew it. So I wouldn't take it that far, but I would agree that it was not only predictable that this would happen, it was inevitable.David Roberts: Was it predicted? Were there voices at the time saying, “this grandfathering idea is a disaster in the making”?Cynthia Giles: I wasn't there when this was set up, so I couldn't speak to what the conversations were internally. I would say that it occurred at a time when no one was really challenging this fundamental belief structure, which I think is demonstrably wrong, that most will comply and enforcement will take care of the rest. That was certainly the dominant view about how this structure should work. David Roberts: That's an example of where the design of the rule makes rule violations inevitable. You point out in your work that you can design a rule such that breaking the rule is more of a hassle than it's worth, or more expensive than it's worth. What's a good example of a rule that pulled that off?Cynthia Giles: The best example of a completed rule is in the acid rain program, which is particularly interesting for proving the thesis of next-gen, because it covers the same sector. Coal-fired power was the regulated entity, and unlike the compliance catastrophe that happened with New Source Review, the acid rain program had 99 percent compliance. How did they do it? A couple key interlocking features. No one of these does it by itself, but together they make for a robust compliance structure. One was continuous emission monitoring — don't estimate, know in real time how much pollution you have. This program was designed to reduce sulfur dioxide pollution from power plants that was causing acidic rain in big parts of the country and devastating ecosystems. Continuous, real-time measurement of sulfur dioxide was coupled with an incentive to use the monitoring by saying, “if your monitor is not working, or you don't pass quality control, we're going to assume you had a lot of pollution.” You'd think that seems like a no-brainer, but there are still programs that don't have that today — electronic reporting to a central system, which allows monitoring in real time and data analytics, which are important for spotting anomalies and fixing problems. And then simplicity is an under-appreciated value for getting compliance. Even though it's a complicated program, and monitoring is complicated, there's hundreds of pages of guidance on how to run these monitors and what to do, it all boiled down to a very simple thing: a ton of emissions and one allowance. Do you have enough allowances to cover your tons, yes or no? It’s impossible to miss a violation. The coup de grâs at the end is automatic penalties. If you don't have enough allowances to cover your emissions at the end of the year, you will be penalized automatically. You don't have to wait to be sued, you owe it right now. And by the way, your penalty is more than it would cost you to go out and buy an allowance. So this combination of strategies together made it hard to violate. There was really no way to manipulate the situation; everyone was going to know what was going on. There was only one pathway forward, and that was to comply. It was more hassle, more expensive, to violate.David Roberts: Trying to cheat on that, you'd have to rig your monitor, or lie on your electronic reports, at risk of much greater expense. So it just becomes easy to comply?Cynthia Giles: Yeah. The whole idea is to try to make compliance the path of least resistance. If you're not paying attention, or you have people that make mistakes — if you make it so that those kinds of things are addressed within your rule, you're not waiting to catch people afterward. It's brought to their attention through the design of the rule itself. David Roberts: Was the acid rain program notably cheaper for EPA? Is there a way of measuring how exp…

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    On climate policy, there's one main thing and then there's everything else Jul 09, 2021
    Show notes

    Last week, I wrote that there is no “moderate” position on climate change. Either we act rapidly and at massive scale to avoid the worst consequences … or we suffer the worst consequences. Either outcome involves radical change. There’s no avoiding radicalism.

    Lots of activists, politicians, and ordinary citizens understand this need for ambitious action — they are convinced by the scale and severity of the problem — but there is less clarity about what qualifies as ambitious.

    In an atmosphere of legislative scarcity, when tough decisions are being made and policies are being prioritized, what exactly should climate advocates be pushing for? What’s a simple way to distinguish between climate policy and good climate policy?

    In the great climate policy feast, what is the entrée and what are the side dishes?

    We lack a common framework for judging climate policy, which creates a fog in which dedicated advocates can lose focus and malefactors can get up to shenanigans. Within the fog, people tend to pick their favorite markers of climate commitment based on instinct and affective affiliation (shut down pipelines! ramp up nuclear power! impose a carbon tax!). What counts as good policy becomes a matter of identity rather than what would most effectively ratchet down carbon emissions.

    The fog allows weak and marginal policies to be branded as moderate, or, other times, to masquerade as radical. It leads activists to diffuse their energy, while core policies often don’t receive the coordinated support they need.

    We need to clear away the fog, fast. Policy decisions are being made over the next few weeks that will reverberate for decades. This is crunch time on climate policy and everyone who wants serious action needs to be (at least roughly) aligned.

    So I want to spend a few minutes laying out a simple framework to help people think about how to prioritize climate policies. It doesn’t cover everything, but it’s a pretty good rough-and-ready guide.

    Clean electrification is the entrée. Everything else is a side.

    How can the US hit net-zero emissions by or before 2050, a goal shared by almost every Democrat and, at least rhetorically, by some Republicans?

    The key is to immediately begin reducing emissions and maintain a rapid pace of reduction for the coming three decades. That is the only way we have a shot. If we wait another decade to start rapid reductions, the curve will simply be too steep. It has to start now.

    So we can think of the work in two parts. Job One is to rapidly push fossil fuels out of the system using technologies and strategies that we have on hand, such that we reduce carbon emissions by around 50 percent by 2030. Job Two is to research and develop the technologies and strategies we will need to continue rapidly reducing emissions from 2030 onward, such that we hit net-zero on or before 2050.

    Job Two is important. But Job One is the main thing. Job One is the entrée. Without it, you don’t have a meal.

    What does Job One consist of? This is important: while different climate models disagree about which policies and technologies will be needed to clean up remaining emissions after 2030, virtually all of them agree on what’s needed over the next decade. It’s clean electrification:

    * clean up the electricity grid by replacing fossil fuel power plants with renewable energy, batteries, and other zero-carbon resources;

    * clean up transportation by replacing gasoline and diesel vehicles — passenger vehicles, delivery trucks and vans, semi-trucks, small planes, agricultural and mining equipment, etc. — with electric vehicles; and

    * clean up buildings by replacing furnaces and other appliances that run on fossil fuels with electric equivalents.

    Or as I summarize it: electrify everything!

    Clean electrification is the entrée. If you decarbonize electricity, transportation, and buildings, you’ve taken out the three biggest sources of emissions in virtually every country. The technologies and policies we need to do it exist today, ready to deploy.

    Exactly how much of the US economy can be decarbonized through clean electrification is an open question. Saul Griffith of Rewiring America is an optimist. He thinks electrification can reduce between 70 and 80 percent of US emissions by 2035, and probably in the 90s eventually. (Listen to my podcast with Griffith.)

    We’ll see. Today, there are all sorts of edge cases that are difficult to electrify — bigger trucks, airplanes, trains, ships, steel, concrete, a variety of high-heat industrial applications — that might be easier with cheaper zero-carbon electricity and a decade of innovation. There’s no way to know in advance how far electrification can get, though it’s worth noting that critics have underestimated it at every stage thus far.

    Regardless, whether it can ultimately get at 60 or 90 percent, clean electrification will do the bulk of the work reducing emissions over the next decade. It is the entrée.

    None of this is to diminish the scale and difficulty of Job Two — all the side dishes. We need those too. We’ll need lots of zero-carbon liquid fuels for industry, ships, and airplanes, so we need to work on developing clean hydrogen. We’ll need to figure out some sustainable biomass options, along with a variety of ways to capture and store carbon dioxide. We’ll need focused innovation in geothermal energy, long-term energy storage, energy management software, and all sorts of other things. Much work remains to be done.

    Nonetheless, clean electrification — done in a way that honors and protects frontline and vulnerable communities — needs to be the top item on every list of climate demands. It would be fatal for climate activists to take it for granted or assume it’s taking care of itself. It is not.

    Climate policy that’s all side dishes is not “moderate”

    As I wrote last week, the danger is that weak and insufficient climate policy gains a reputation as moderate.

    But the danger is more specific than that: it’s that moderate policy will be all side dishes and no entrée. It will be all policies that prepare to phase out fossil fuels a decade hence … and none of the policies that phase them out today.

    This type of approach is on particularly clear display these days from Republicans and their nascent “climate caucus.” Republicans in the House recently introduced a package of climate policies centered around carbon capture (helpful to fossil fuels), nuclear power (no threat to fossil fuels in the coming decade), and tree planting (irrelevant to fossil fuels).

    But it’s also what’s passing for “bipartisan” climate policy. A particularly on-the-nose example is the Clean Energy Future through Innovation Act of 2020, introduced in the House by Reps. David McKinley (R-WV) and Kurt Schrader (D-OR). It would establish a clean energy standard to decarbonize the electricity sector … in 2030. Until then, we’ll have a “decade of innovation,” whee!

    Needless to say, “start reducing emissions in 2030” is the very definition of a climate policy meal with no entrée.

    Our beloved West Virginia Sen. Joe Manchin (D) recently produced an even more elaborate version of an all-side-dishes climate package, in the form of a 423-page bill he released, somewhat out of the blue, earlier this month. It was unclear if the bill was meant to be part of the bipartisan infrastructure package or something else. Mainly it reads like a Manchin wish list.

    It’s a fascinating document. It’s got a lot of policies in it. Here’s one page of the bill’s 3.5-page table of contents:

    And not just policies, but good policies. There’s virtually nothing in it I would disagree with on the merits. Clean electricity will need new grid infrastructure and more robust supply chains and better cybersecurity. Energy efficiency is great; so is keeping existing nuclear power plants open. I’m even down with carbon capture and utilization research.

    But it’s all side dishes and no entrée. It’s all preparation for pushing fossil fuels out with none of the actual pushing. It’s all kinds of stuff that will supplement clean electrification without the clean electrification itself.

    This is the kind of climate policy that is in danger of being branded “moderate” — the kind that does everything but rapidly push fossil fuels out of the energy system in the coming decade.

    Progressives need to demand an entrée

    Clean electrification is the core of any ambitious climate policy. Without it, we’re still spinning our wheels, innovating without deploying what we’ve already innovated.

    There is very little for clean electrification in the bipartisan infrastructure package recently unveiled by Manchin’s gang of ten in the Senate, save some money for transmission lines and electric buses.

    So far, progressive Democrats aren’t making a fuss about the bipartisan package because they have assurances from both Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer (D-NY) and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) that alongside the bipartisan bill there will be a reconciliation bill, which can get through the Senate with only Democratic votes.

    Pelosi is under no illusions that anything that directly challenges fossil fuels will get any Republican votes. "I don't think there's any question that the more bipartisan a bill is, the less green it is," she said last month, because Republicans "are in the pocket of the fossil fuel industry."

    So progressives are looking to reconciliation to pass the rest of President Biden’s climate agenda.

    The climate plan Biden campaigned on, the infrastructure plan he released as president, and the plans released by Democrats in Congress all contain extensive clean-electrification measures, including a clean energy standard to decarbonize the grid by 2035, tax and point-of-purchase incentives for electric vehicles, and programs to electrify buildings. Those — implemented with a strong focus on environmental justice — are the key climate pieces that need to be included in the reconciliation bill. They are the entrée.

    The question around reconciliation will not be Republican support, but support from Manchin and his crew of self-styled moderates. They will push for compromises that go easy on fossil fuels. Progressives need to hold the line: only by pushing fossil fuels out the system, beginning immediately, can Democrats meet the challenge of the moment.

    That means clean electrification: the policy that makes climate legislation a meal.


    This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.volts.wtf/subscribe

    Volts podcast: treating fossil fuels like nuclear weapons, with Tzeporah Berman Jul 07, 2021
    Show notes

    In this episode, longtime activist Tzeporah Berman discusses the need to track and reduce fossil fuel production (not just consumption) and the Fossil Fuel Non-Proliferation Treaty that she and other activists created to help coordinate those efforts. Full transcript of Volts podcast featuring Tzeporah Berman, July 7, 2021(PDF version)David Roberts:For as long as I've been covering climate change, it's been conventional wisdom among economists — and the kind of people who aspire to please economists — that the proper focus of climate policy is on demand. We must reduce demand for fossil fuels, the argument goes, otherwise any supply we shut down will just pop up somewhere else.Activists have always disagreed with this logic. For many of them, the fight against climate change is a fight for places — specific places, with histories, peoples, and ecosystems — and every fossil fuel project is, in some way or another, an assault on a place. Over the last decade, more economists and policy wonks have come around to their way of thinking, questioning both the economics and the sociology of the demand-focused conventional wisdom. As things stand now, wealthy fossil fuel–producing countries are making grand emission reduction commitments while continuing to ramp up production. All that fossil fuel has to go somewhere. It creates its own set of commitments and investments, its own momentum.My guest today, Canadian activist Tzeporah Berman, has been fighting for places since grunge and flannel were big. There is no way to do her resume justice in a short intro, or else I would never get to the podcast, but here are some highlights.In the 1990s, she fought clear-cutting projects with blockades and civil disobedience. In 2000, she co-founded ForestEthics, which uses clever communications campaigns to shame companies into using less old-growth wood. In 2004, she turned to climate change, founding her own nonprofit advocacy group, PowerUp, to defend BC’s carbon tax; in 2010 she became co-director of Greenpeace International's 40-country climate and energy program, where she led its storied Arctic and Volkswagen campaigns; in 2015, she was appointed to the BC government’s Climate Leadership Team to advise on climate policy; in 2016, she was appointed as co-chair of the Alberta government’s Oil Sands Advisory Group. She also led the effort to secure the Great Bear Rainforest agreement, which protects more than 40 million hectares of old growth forest. Her activism continues today — she was just arrested in May defending old growth forests on unceded Pacheedaht and Ditidaht Territories on Vancouver Island, BC.Anyway! In 2019, Berman received the Climate Breakthrough Project Award from a coalition of foundations, which came with $2 million to create “breakthrough global strategies” on climate change. She used the money on a project she’s been thinking about for a while: the Fossil Fuel Non-Proliferation Treaty. The IPCC is clear: there are already enough fossil fuels in known reserves to blow the world past its 1.5°C temperature limit. Yet fossil fuel production continues to increase.Fossil fuels have become a threat to all of humanity, as nuclear weapons are, and just as with nuclear weapons, Berman believes we need a global agreement to cap their growth and ramp them down. The Fossil Fuel Non-Proliferation Treaty is meant to be a template for such an agreement.Though the treaty is relatively new, it has already been signed by nine cities and subnational governments, more than 480 organizations, and over 12,000 individuals, including a wide array of academics, researchers, and scientists.I called Berman to hear more about the need to address fossil fuel supply, the motivations behind the treaty, and where it might go in the future. Tzeporah, welcome to Volts.Tzeporah Berman:Thank you. David Roberts:I'm so happy to have you here. It seems like the last time we talked was either a few years ago or 100 years ago.Tzeporah Berman: It definitely feels like a very long time ago, but so does last week. Time is fungible right now.David Roberts:Time is meaningless. OK, so I want to talk to you about many things, including the Fossil Fuel Non-Proliferation Treaty. But before that, I'd like to just hear a little bit about what pulled you into all of this. You were born into a middle class Jewish family in London, Ontario, and went to school originally for fashion design, yes? Tzeporah Berman: You’ve been digging far back!David Roberts:And you were even lauded, even won some fashion-y awards -- then took a sharp left turn. So what in your youth pulled you toward environmental activism?Tzeporah Berman: Like a lot of my privileged generation, I took a trip to Europe, with a Let’s Go Europe in my hand and a train ticket, in my first year of university, in the summer, and at the time my dream was to go to the Acropolis. I was studying Art and Art History and Fashion Arts Design because I had to have a career and all I wanted to do was art. That year, in the late ‘80s, pollution was so bad — in a lot of cities in Europe, but in Athens in particular — that the Acropolis was melting. I can remember hiking up to the top, and this is before all the restoration, and you could just see the pollution on it. It was all crumbling. I looked down on the city, and it was just covered in this yellow haze. I got back to my youth hostel and I remember rubbing my face and leaving a white streak across it and coughing up black goo. And I was like, I have got to get out of here. I mean, I'm Canadian, I'm used to a lot of space, a lot of air. And my sister and I, who I was traveling with, we were like, we’ve got to go to nature. We just picked a spot on the map and went to Germany: we're going to hike in the Harz Mountains and drink beer! And we went to the Harz Mountains. I didn't know that most of the Harz Mountains is dead, left standing as a testimony to acid rain. So we get off this train and start hiking through a standing dead forest, not a bird sound, not anything. Those two days rocked my world. I remember coming back to Canada and thinking, we are so lucky. And being really scared. I think environmental consciousness is one of those things where there's a new lens and then you can't see anything else. I, at least, went through that phase, and I seem to have never gotten out of it. So I started working on environmental issues, I dropped out of Fashion Arts Design, and I enrolled in Political Science and Environmental Theory and Environmental Studies at university. That was the beginning for me.David Roberts: And it's been a long road since. You spend a lot of your time organizing and fighting against forest exploitation, clear cutting, and fossil fuel exploitation. In the climate wonk community, it’s conventional wisdom that the only way to really solve the fossil fuel problem is to go after demand.If people want fossil fuels, they're going to find them and burn them; if you shut down demand, it doesn't matter if people are supplying fossil fuels, they won't get bought. But if you shut down a supply project, and there still is demand, supply will just pop up elsewhere. I'm sure you've heard variations on this a kajillion times. Why do you think that's wrong?Tzeporah Berman: I think the theory for a long time, now almost 30 years, has been that we're going to constrain demand -- which is happening, obviously: more electric cars, zero emission buildings, zero emission vehicles, etc. -- demand is going to go down, price is going to go up, a higher price on carbon, and the markets are going to constrain supply. That's what I often get from the Canadian government: “We're not responsible for who produces or how much fossil fuels are produced, we're just responsible for emissions.” And the thing about that market theory around demand is that it's not working. I mean, it's not working fast enough to keep us safe, that much is clear. I still actually kind of like it as a theory, but the fact is that there are two big problems with it. One is that the markets are completely distorted by fossil fuel subsidies and now by governments out-and-out buying projects that the industry runs away from. So renewables are cheap, cheaper than fossil fuels in a lot of places now; oil and gas companies are operating at the bottom of the SMP, more bankruptcies in that sector than any other; but these projects are still surviving. Like the Trans Mountain Pipeline in Canada: it's surviving because investors ran away from it and the government bought it for $12 billion. That's because of the political influence of the fossil fuel industry, and because governments are only just starting to really grapple with the fact that they're going to actually need to deal with supply as well as demand. The fact is, there are very few issues, if any — intransigent issues, where governments have had to step in — that we haven't had to deal with both the supply and the demand side of the equation.David Roberts: Another thing that I think is germane, especially to your case, is: “demand” is abstract. But fossil fuel supply fights take place on the ground, in particular places, and pull people in for a wider variety of reasons. So tell me about a supply fight that you won. What brings people into it?Tzeporah Berman: I will, but I want to say one thing about places and policies. As a forest activist, when I first started working in the climate movement and on climate issues, the thing that I really noticed is: in the forest and conservation movement, we fight for places. We campaign about places. The climate movement — especially 15, 20 years ago, when I really started engaging — talks about not places, but policies.I'll never forget, at a briefing with this great, brilliant pollster, Angus McAllister, he said to me, “Why is it that the climate movement is always trying to sell the airplane ride to the vacation? Sell the beach! Sell where you're trying to get to! Not the complicated, annoying journey to get to it.” I think that's relevant here. I have three university degrees, and I spent years trying to figure out, what am I for on climate change? It's like, “no cap-and-trade, no cap-and-trade and auction, and then is it carbon tax, but from this benchmark date, and not this.” And we wonder why millions of people are not getting involved. Then when the pipeline, and the coal plant, or even the Heathrow Airport — when these tangible fights start arising, people can see them in their backyard, they can see that they're bad. The problem with climate change for years has been that carbon emissions are invisible. Oil spills are not. This pipeline, right now, they're starting to drill under Burnaby Mountain and under the Fraser River to put this pipeline in. Well, that's very tangible to people. I've been working on pipelines and oil sands issues for a little more than 10 years, and in that time, I would say we've won almost every fight. We've either stopped or delayed every single pipeline that the industry has proposed, other than the existing pipeline fights, which are Trans Mountain and Line 3. Enbridge Northern Gateway: dead. Keystone: dead. Energy East: dead. These pipelines have been stopped because of citizen action, which delays the project, raises the concerns, and draws both investor action and government policy action.David Roberts:People’s involvement and passion for a particular place, protecting a particular landscape, is hard to generate for “the atmosphere,” which is everywhere and nowhere. Do people build momentum from these fights to go on to bigger things?Tzeporah Berman:Oh, entirely. Yes. The momentum builds. But also, what I've noticed and witnessed is, people go through a personal journey. The climate movement is growing and diversifying because of these fights. David Roberts:You think they pull in young people, specifically?Tzeporah Berman: They definitely pull in young people. But what I was thinking of in the back of my head was indigenous leaders that I have worked with in Canada, on Northern Gateway for example, who started these fights because this is a human rights issue. It's issues to do with their trap lines, their concern for water. As we work together, as we're having discussions, as they're learning, it's a journey. Now many of those same leaders are giving some of the most passionate climate speeches I've ever heard. Nebraska farmers that I worked with on Keystone, they started this because of eminent-domain issues. I watched some of those individuals become passionate about working on climate change. Because it's a journey — they start to be introduced to the other aspects of the issues. It's a mistake that we make in all of our communications work: we keep talking about the message box and the narratives. Well, we need a narrative that brings people with us, and that's what's happened through the site fights.David Roberts: This might sound like a weird parallel, but when people talk about music, lyrics that are very specific — ”Jane broke my heart at the high school dance” — can resonate in a universal way, even more universal than if you try to write something more generic and broad. The specificity of it is a gateway to the universal. I think of land fights and exploitation fights the same way. Like the Nebraska farmers: “Oh, this fight is happening all over the place.” Tzeporah Berman: Right, and they motivate people, because they're not about information and data and statistics. Of course there has to be a foundation of knowledge, but what resonates with people are the values: this isn't fair, this isn't right that this is happening to this local community, that they face the dangers or the cleanup from the oil development, or the toxins. Then there's a journey around to, “Well, wait a minute, why do these oil and gas companies get to profit off this when we know that it's killing us?” — not just at the local site level, but because of the contribution to climate change. What we know from decades of social movement theory and psychological research is that what motivates people is triggering values, but also an opportunity to do something. Education doesn't motivate; opportunity motivates.David Roberts:Agency. Having some sense of control. So what happens when the indigenous people of northern Canada meet the Nebraska farmers, meet people in the Congo fighting oil projects — unlike demand fights, which tend to be fought by wonks and wonky NGOs, these supply fights bring in a really wide diversity of people. What does it look like when those people hook up with one another? What’s it like to watch them try to work things out?Tzeporah Berman:It's fascinating. It's joyful. It is also painful. One of the things I did when I was working predominantly on tar sands and pipelines is start to bring people together. I realized, whether you're in Nebraska or northern British Columbia, you're often fighting the same oil companies, the same pipeline companies — same strategy, same messaging, struggling with the same or similar regulatory issues. But they weren’t talking to each other; the movement wasn't learning from each other. It was very disparate. So I started convening these gatherings, 100 people at a time; first domestically in the US and Canada, and then eventually internationally through a network I helped create called the Global Gas and Oil Network. I have memories of sitting at a retreat center, watching an indigenous chief from a remote community engage with a Nebraska farmer, and a union leader, and then a climate policy wonk from NRDC, and then we've just finished dinner and they're all getting into the hot tub. I'm like, “Oh my god, what…

    Full show notes at the publisher

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