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Ask and you shall receive! We did a survey of our audience a few months back, and the number one requested topic was influencer marketing. And for good reason! Influencer marketing has infiltrated every industry and has the ability to drive large ROI if done correctly. But many new or smaller brands are wondering if they can take part in this marketing channel. And the answer is yes! Eric Lam, is the co-founder of AspireIQ, and he is here to explain how the industry has become democratized and any brand can take part in it, as long as they go about it the right way.On this episode of Up Next in Commerce, he gets into all of that and more, including why he bet big on the idea of influencers when it was still a radical idea used mostly by large companies with large celebrities. Today, Eric says that there are certain mistakes that many companies are making when it comes to working with influencers, and he details exactly how you should go about measuring the ROI from your influencer strategy. Plus, Eric explains why he thinks platforms like TikTok are undervalued and he predicts the future of how the world of influencer marketing will grow. Main Takeaways:The ROI of the Storm: Understanding the attribution funnel of influencer marketing is a key metric to determine the ROI of your efforts. But what if there are other aspects of the partnership that should be considered, that many brands are missing?Can I See Your Manager?: One of the biggest challenges of influencer marketing is managing the various influencers you work with and the logistics of tracking and shipping the products your influencers are promoting. Building a platform and communication structure that solves that problem is what sets influencer community management companies apart.Democracy Now: Part of what social media has done is democratize content creation. Previously, brands and those with money were in control of what content was created, when, and who could see it. Now, individuals have the same capabilities in the palms of their hands, which not only leads to better content, but opens the door to revenue streams and opportunities for regular people to become influencers.For an in-depth look at this episode, check out the full transcript below. Quotes have been edited for clarity and length.---Up Next in Commerce is brought to you by Salesforce Commerce Cloud. Respond quickly to changing customer needs with flexible Ecommerce connected to marketing, sales, and service. Deliver intelligent commerce experiences your customers can trust, across every channel. Together, we’re ready for what’s next in commerce. Learn more at salesforce.com/commerce---Transcript:Stephanie:Welcome to the Up Next In Commerce Podcast, I'm your host, Stephanie Postles. Co-Founder at mission.org. Today, we're talking all things influencers, but the co-founder of AspireIQ, Eric Lam. Eric, nice to meet you.Eric:Great to meet you as well. Thanks for having me.Stephanie:Yeah, I'm excited to have you on so no pressure, but we did a survey of our audience, and the number one thing that everyone wanted to hear about was influencers. Early, like we got dozens of responses of [crosstalk 00:00:32].Eric:Love to hear it.Stephanie:Yeah. This is the perfect interview.Eric:Fantastic. Well, that's really helpful for me to hear, especially for my team work in sales.Stephanie:There you go. Tell me a little bit about what is AspireIQ.Eric:We're a platform for brands to build and engage communities of influential people from traditional social media influencers to top customers and brand fans to experts and more. We actually started back in 2013. Even though it's mainstream now, back then, influencer marketing was a pretty new concept. Frankly, the idea of businesses using Instagram back then in a meaningful way was pretty rare. Of course, now 93% of brands and kind of based on your survey, it sounds like that's increasing, are using influencer marketing as a core part of their digital and social media strategies, and we're lucky to be partnered with over 300 brands on the platform from some of the biggest names like Samsung to leading [inaudible] brands like Glossier and Purple Mattress.Stephanie:Amazing. Tell me a little bit, how is the platform design? If I'm a new customer, what would I experience when I enter a platform and what do I get out of it?Eric:Yeah. Even back in the day, I think pretty much from the beginning, some of the biggest problems we've tried to solve in influencer marketing have come down to three parts, finding the right influencers to work with in terms of creating content and promoting your brand, to managing the complex workflow between your brand and potentially hundreds of influencers in your community, to analyzing the impact of these influencer communities on your marketing goals. I think that where we've really made our bread and butter is that second one, the building workflow. That's because if any of your listeners have built influencer marketing programs, and actually in our early days, probably our first two years, we didn't have our own software, so we experienced this ourselves when we were running influencer campaigns for our clients.Eric:The real work that goes into this is all the communication and the cumbersome project management, the data organization, the contracts, the product shipping, the payments, and just keeping track of all this stuff in one place, especially if you're working with more than, say 10 influencers at a given time, like that's where the real work is. That's where we really focused on building a platform that can provide meaningful scale to clients building this in a sophisticated way. I think at this point, we've got a range of sophistication levels from fortune 500 companies who have seven different teams working across different countries with outside agencies and the corporate office, to some of the biggest DTC brands in the world who have kind of built their secret sauce in influencer marketing, and almost need to design this customized system within our platform for how to do influencer marketing. So, it's come a long way in terms of the sophistication level that a lot of our clients have had.Stephanie:That's awesome. Since 2013, what kind of shifts in the market have you seen? Because when I think about influencers, especially back in the day, it's like, if you don't have a Kardashian, you don't have an influencer. Now it seems like way more about like micro influencers who have a trusted audience and people actually buy what they want. What kind of things have you seen like shifts in the market?Eric:Yeah, it's evolved in a lot of different, really interesting ways. You're exactly right. I think in the early days, well, frankly in the really early days, when we first started, almost no one was doing influencer marketing, which was obviously tough for our business because we were trying to go to every brand and convince them to spend even like a hundred bucks on an influencer.Stephanie:They're like, no, thanks. Out of budget.Eric:Yeah. I think that was already like pulling teeth. I think, back then, I think the only brands doing this were probably these emerging ecommerce brands where ... they can't compete on traditional advertising, so Instagram had become this place where they discovered already consumers were coming there to learn about what to buy, what to do, where to go. That was true, even though back then Instagram wasn't this kind of commercialized or sponsor place the way it is today. But even in our early days, what kept us going is that we talked to so many ecommerce brands and consistently what we heard was the biggest channel that they were focusing on was social media and specifically influencer marketing.Eric:Then I think, yeah, after a few years, maybe like 2015 and 2016, the industry kind of evolve to what you were talking about, where everybody was trying to work with Kardashians. It was all about working with the biggest fashion bloggers, the biggest celebrities. The bigger, the better. And you're thinking about these vanity metrics, like how many followers someone has, or how many likes they have, regardless of if they saw meaningful returns on investment. Those were the early cowboy days of influencer marketing. I think because of a lot of the mainstream brands got involved there, you started to then see an evolution of how a lot of the DTC, a lot of ecommerce brands were starting to think about influencer marketing because they were kind of getting priced out of these big macro celebrities.Eric:So, they started honing in on more specialized micro influencers, like you mentioned, who, they might not have as big of a following, but they were a lot more targeted, a lot more focused in the concept of created, which meant they were a great fit for more personalized experiences, more authentic content in terms of the segments they were trying to reach among their customers. I think the second thing that was really interesting about the way this evolved is that these same ecommerce brands started using influencers for more than just trying to reach their audiences like in an advertising way, and they started looking at them as holistic content creators, because when you think about what an influencer is, they're kind of like this studio photographer model all wrapped into one person, whose literal job it is to make engaging content for this generation.Eric:These brands started re-purposing a lot of their content and using it in all their different channels, from paid advertising, to ecommerce website, to email marketing and more because content became this King of everything they wanted to do across digital. Today, I think that's kind of even more the case where you're looking at even more long tail influencers, and even people that aren't considered traditional social media influencers, but are really important to the brands and their strategies from marketing perspective. Brands might be building programs where they're combining influencers, but they're also combining those with top customers, power users, experts, working professionals who do customer referrals, whichever groups of people who have the greatest word of mouth impact on the customers and trying to win over, regardless of if they have a social media following or not. I think it's a really exciting phase of influencer marketing we're heading into, where it really includes, even democratize, where brands are kind of looking for these authentic voices, no matter where they come from.Stephanie:Yep. I love that. Yeah, I was just going to say, it feels like now there's so much more opportunity for anyone to have an influencer if you find the right person, whereas before, not so much. But if you're thinking about finding an influencer in your space or finding someone to partner with or using your platform to find some, what kind of metrics would you look at to make sure they're a good fit? What should a brand be looking for to be like, "ah, this is my perfect person?"Eric:Yeah. I think a lot of it comes down to what the goals of this influencer program is. But I think, at the end of the day, a lot of that comes down to subjective type of qualities. Obviously, you can see if they have a big following, you can see if they have really high engagement rates, but at the end of the day, you want to look at, what are people talking about in their comment section? What's the type of narrative they're kind of build with their audience? And does that really resonate with the type of nuanced audience segment that you're trying to build with your audiences? Because that tells you a lot about how they're going to co-create this narrative with you.Eric:That's really what we tell people when we give them advice is, you should really be building relationships with these influencers and treat them as a part of your community rather than looking at it as a transaction. I think that one of the biggest mistakes I see a lot is that, people will look at influencer marketing almost as like buying ad space, and it's really not like buying ad space because content creators are people.Stephanie:Yeah, these are people.Eric:Yeah, these are people who have these like nuanced feelings about the content they make, what they feel comfortable with, what's authentic to them. This is like their livelihood. Communicating with that level of empathy is really important, and if you can find people that really match your brand values and are going to be true advocates for you, that really translates into the authenticity, both from what they're saying, but also the kind of content they make because influencer marketing is pretty mature now and audiences can smell inauthenticity from a mile away. So, it matters a lot to find people that really believe in your brand.Stephanie:How do you go about making sure that a relationship is built on your platform and that someone's not just going through and being like, "Okay, bye. I want this." How do you develop or encourage a relationship to be built before they start working together?Eric:Yeah, I think a lot of times, frankly, sometimes it starts not necessarily with a kind of a official collaboration or with an official contract or anything like that. A lot of brands, what they do is they'll do what's called product seeding, and they'll send these gift bags out to influencers or micro influencers. A lot of people try out the products. If they like the products, they'll have them give feedback, they'll invite them to some events, they'll have them be part of some community activities before they really kind of like level them up into true ambassadors for the brand that have these more formalized contracts and agreements and payment structures and things like that. I think, obviously not all of that is necessary, but it kind of creates this much more organic experience, where ambassadors almost like come to you or are built with you, rather than just saying to every person, hey, we've got this $10,000 campaign and here you go, who wants the money? Kind of going based on much more of a transactional experience.Eric:That's one way to go. I think other ways to go are influencers who can come to you and are creating a more of an inbound experience. What we see a lot is brands setting up kind of these programs and looking for new ambassadors and new influencers to the program. A lot of times those might be smaller, but getting people to kind of sign up when they're small, when they have smaller followings is a great way to almost like build this farm system of up and coming influencers that are working with you in their early days so that when they become really big and famous. Obviously they've been kind of long-term supporters, long-term advocates of your brand for quite a while.Stephanie:Yep. That's great. Yeah, I think I've mentioned a few times in different episodes that I was ... I forget who I was listening to, where they're discussing influencers and how to pick them, but they said you should zero in on the comments and how their followers are actually engaging, because if they're engaging in one way where it's just like, oh, that's pretty, I like that shirt or something, that might not actually be an influential person you should work with versus someone who's saying, "Where can I buy that shirt right now?" If you see a lot of that in the comments, even if they're small, like they have people waiting to buy whatever they wear. I thought that was always a good reminder.Eric:Yeah, totally. I think that a lot of times, that that comes from some of these smaller influence…
Full show notes at the publisherRachel Drori has come a long way from the days of filling a shopping cart at Trader Joe's and packing up healthy, frozen meals for delivery to customers all around New York — all while being nine-months pregnant. As the Founder and CEO of Daily Harvest, Rachel bootstrapped her company from the very beginning, and eventually had a few big names reach out to invest, including folks like Serena Williams and Gwyneth Paltrow. In 2019, Daily Harvest generated more than $125M in revenue and the company is growing. So what makes her meal-delivery service different from the others? The heavy focus on customer-centricity.When Rachel founded Daily Harvest, her goal was to build a customer-driven company that connected people with food that was designed specifically for them. But what did that look like from a practical standpoint and what can others learn from Rachel’s journey? On this episode of Up Next in Commerce, we’ll give you the answers to just that, so stay tuned!Main Takeaways:Nimble and Agile: In marketing and customer acquisition, it’s a mistake to be reliant on any one channel. Having the ability to understand and follow the trends, and then meet potential customers where they are at the moment they are online will allow you to actually bring in new customers reliably.Call and Response: Customers are less interested in having a place to share their thoughts than they are in having their feedback responded to by the brand they are interacting with. In every channel, there should be a way to engage in two-way conversations with your customers and then a method to follow through on those customers’ needs in a way that everyone can see.High On Your Own Supply: Having control of your supply chain is one of the best ways to create agility within your organization. But sometimes it takes some technology investment to bring all your suppliers on board.For an in-depth look at this episode, check out the full transcript below. Quotes have been edited for clarity and length.---Up Next in Commerce is brought to you by Salesforce Commerce Cloud. Respond quickly to changing customer needs with flexible Ecommerce connected to marketing, sales, and service. Deliver intelligent commerce experiences your customers can trust, across every channel. Together, we’re ready for what’s next in commerce. Learn more at salesforce.com/commerce---Transcript:Stephanie:Welcome back to Up Next in Commerce. This is Stephanie Postles, your host and co-founder of mission.org. Today on the show, we have Rachel Drori, the founder and CEO of Daily Harvest. Rachel, welcome, welcome.Rachel:Hi, thanks for having me.Stephanie:Thanks for coming on. So yesterday in the mail, I got an amazing box of Daily Harvest. And it was the perfect way for me to understand exactly what it was and enjoyed this morning. But to kick it off, maybe I'll let you explain what Daily Harvest is.Rachel:First of all, I need to know what you tried first, and then....Stephanie:I tried a smoothie, and today I'm going to be trying one of the soups in there. I think there was a lentil soup that you just add water to. I'm like, "This is what I need in my life, something that you just add water to or just add coconut water to make a smoothie and it's done."Rachel:I love it. Yes. So I started Daily Harvest about five years ago. And the mission is simple. It's really to take care of food so that food can take care of all of us. And we do this by starting at the root with our farmers. And we grow the best fruits and vegetables in the best way possible. And then we make incredible food, which I'm glad you got to try. [inaudible] smoothies and flatbreads, ice cream, alongside with people who eat it, our customers. And the idea is that you can then stock your home with convenient, but also clean and delicious food that's built on real fruits and vegetables. And part of our magic is really connecting people with food that was designed specifically for them so that you're really always stocked with a whole food kitchen of clean food when you want it and it's ready in minutes.Stephanie:I love that. I think on my Twitter, I posted a picture of my freezer and what it looks like. And it was kind of sad because there was like waffles next to one of them. I'm like, "What?" This is my life. I have waffles and then now a new experience that I don't think I'll be able to step away from after this.Rachel:Well, that's what I like to hear. But it's interesting, people buying additional freezers in the last few months. And I'm like, "I support this message. I support this very much."Stephanie:That is awesome. So tell me a little bit about the early days of when you were starting it. I mean, I'm thinking about all the different logistics and the supply chain and working with farmers. And I want to kind of hear how it all got started.Rachel:So as I started pulling on the strings really trying to figure out why the food that I wanted didn't exist, what I realized is that it was because food is not customer driven. The way food is created is actually really far from that. And the reason food is not customer driven is actually a true systemic problem. So as I set out to start Daily Harvest, part of what I wanted to do was really solve some of the systemic challenges with food. Not only the convenience and the health factor, but also why do we have to choose between preserving ourselves and preserving the planet all of the time with packaging and sustainability and regenerative farming practices and all the stuff that makes our food systems so broken? So back in those early days, I had these really grand ambitions, still have the grand ambitions, but less power to actually make them happen in those days. And what I did was I faked it all until I was actually able to do them.Rachel:So I was buying our ingredients at Trader Joe's. I wasn't telling stories of things that were going to happen in future but buying ingredients at Trader Joe's, got a commercial kitchen in Long Island City. And my right hand and my left hand were my first team members, bagging all those ingredients up into food that I knew solved all of the customer problems that I had surfaced to myself but also in friends and family, and started delivering across New York City and really trying to see if I was solving problems for people other than myself. And it turned out I was. And I'd quit my job and dove in head first.Stephanie:That is amazing. So were you personally delivering a lot of this items in the beginning?Rachel:I was delivering everything.Stephanie:Oh gosh. Any crazy stories of the delivery days?Rachel:Yeah. So I was nine months pregnant towards the end of the bootstrap MVP period. And I could no longer get behind the wheel of my car. But I had a 16-year-old nephew who could drive with an adult.Stephanie:Oh my gosh, getting his permit hours with you?Rachel:Yes, yes. It was ridiculous. So I would pick him up. I would pay him like $15 an hour to drive around and hop in and out. And I would sit in the car like a beached whale. And he would run these boxes up to people's apartments. And I would be like, "Nope, can't give us a ticket. I'm in here."Stephanie:And I'm pregnant. So even more of a reason. Don't try. That's awesome. So then around that time, it looks like you were also... Was that when you were also raising money?Rachel:So I did raise money... well, so I'd raised a few rounds at this point. I actually tried to raise money for a Series C at that phase and it didn't go very well to be honest. People didn't really understand how I had this grandiose vision and I was delivering smoothies. They just couldn't connect the dots. And I guess it was too much of a leap for people. So I decided to bootstrap for as long as I possibly could. And when I say bootstrap, I think people assume you have money to burn. When I say scrappy, literally doing things like having my nephew deliver the food, and I created the website entirely by myself and the packaging and printed everything. There was no money spent to be clear.Rachel:And raised money officially right after I had my first child and decided I needed... I was kind of choking off growth and needed to take it from the MVP stage to something much bigger. And we launched nationally in 2016, which was almost like a year after that period, and then raised our Series A actually when I was pregnant with my second child, which was super fun.Stephanie:What kind of experience did you have being pregnant and raising money or trying to raise money? What happened during that? Because I know I have some personal experiences that maybe weren't always the most positive of people just being like, "How do you plan on running a business and you're pregnant?" Even now, knowing I have three kids, people saying, "How do you plan on running a business with three kids?" And what kind of stories do you have around that? Hopefully, I'll get one. So I'm interested to hear.Rachel:Yeah. I mean, the positive and the negative. The positive was that I had no time to worry about being pregnant. I was just like, "Oh, yeah, this is just happening and I'm going to keep moving." And I think a lot of people in that moment of life and in that phase kind of stew in the moment. And it was great. Nine months later or 10 months later, a baby popped out and I was like, "Moving on." And the negative is it's funny exactly as you just phrased it. The question that came up not actually as frequently as I thought it might, but once or twice, I definitely got the question, how do you plan to be a good mother and run a business? And I'm like, "Interesting question that I'm not going to justify with an answer. But if what you're trying to ask is if I'm 100% committed to making Daily Harvest successful, the answer is yes."Stephanie:Yep. That's great. That's a good way to do it like, "I'm not even going to answer that."Rachel:What a ridiculous question?Stephanie:Yeah. I always say like I could never imagine someone asking like, "Oh, man, how do you plan on still working if your kids are on the way?" I can do that.Rachel:Totally.Stephanie:So I saw you have some really impressive names as investors like Serena Williams, Gwyneth Paltrow. Tell me a little bit about how you got these investors on board.Rachel:Yes. So each one is kind of its own story, but Serena is my favorite because I got a random email from Alexis Ohanian who's now her husband, at the time was Serena's boyfriend. And he was like, "My girlfriend and I eat Daily Harvest every day. We would love to talk to you." I had no idea who his girlfriend was. And the next thing I knew, I was on the phone with Serena Williams like, "Wait, what?"Stephanie:Oh my gosh. That is actually insane. I mean, I wouldn't have known that either because I don't really know names and stuff like that. So how did the conversation go?Rachel:I had no idea. I mean, it was amazing. She's so cool and was incredibly down to earth. And she was just saying how Daily Harvest really helped her eat the way that she wanted to eat, the way that she needed to eat in a pinch. And she loved the idea. And this was super early on. And I was like, "First of all, how do you even know about us? But amazing." And she asked if she could invest. And I was like, "Let me think about this for a second. Yes, absolutely."Stephanie:Oh, that's great. Stephanie:So after you landed Serena, did other investors come along when you could kind of point to like, "I've got Serena Williams. You win her out." How did the other ones go?Rachel:I mean, it's funny. We weren't really public with it until much later. So we had other investors reach out to us with interest, but it had nothing to do with Serena. It really was people finding us in pretty organic ways. And people just getting excited about the idea and the concept and seeing the problem that I stated earlier in their own life and seeing that we don't have to compromise, we can have it all, at least with our food. So each story, as I said, is pretty unique. But they really all were people who found us, which was pretty remarkable.Stephanie:Yeah, that's great. I mean, that's a testament to the product. Very, very cool. So when thinking about new customers finding you in organic or non-organic ways, how are you getting in front of people right now? And I'm asking this question because I went on your guys's Pinterest, and I saw you have like 4 million views a month. And I was like, "What? How are they getting 4 million views on Pinterest?" So I want to hear a little bit about your customer acquisition and how you're getting in front of people.Rachel:Yes. So we have a really robust marketing mix. My background is marketing. So we always started with the goal of, how are we not beholden to any one channel? Right? Because I think that that's just asking for trouble. And we built it in a really nimble and agile way so that as trends and algorithms and all sorts of things change, that we can then be nimble as a result. And we're lucky that we have a really high amount of our customers come in through word of mouth. But we've also done a lot of things to make that easier, to remove the friction of people sharing when they have a positive Daily Harvest experience.Rachel:But there are other things that I think have made us stand out on... I mean, literally, you name a marketing channel, we are on it. There's nothing that's like secret saucy there. But I really think it comes down to our differentiated messaging and our differentiated photography and really focusing on connecting with universal human truths where people are just like, "Oh, you get me. Yep, I understand. I'm going to learn more."Stephanie:Oh, that's great. So tell me a little bit about that differentiated messaging that you're talking about? How do you go about figuring out what you want to message and how do you know what will connect and what won't? Because what you might think is going to be a universal truth, I might be like, "Oh, that's not my truth." How do you guys go about making sure you're speaking to your customer?Rachel:Absolutely. It definitely is trial and error to understand what works, but we obviously have a mission. So we're looking for customers with whom our mission resonates. And there's just a lot of different ways where when you remove your marketing hat and you're like, "How would a normal human say this?" Or, "What is the way of saying something that gets somebody to stop their scroll or perk their ears while listening to something that they might otherwise fast forward past?" And then it's the same thing on the visual side, really focusing on photography and imagery that's visually arresting and beautiful. And also stuff that looks delicious. You can't underestimate the salivation factor of... I don't know if that's a real thing.Stephanie:I like that. Now it needs to be.Rachel:It totally does. How much of a photograph actually makes you salivate? Because that's tied to how hungry it makes you and how much it makes you want something.Stephanie:Yeah. I mean, pictures are everything. Even on your packaging and things like that, I mean, that's what makes me want to buy something, even when I'm on DoorDash or something, if an item doesn't have a picture on it, I'm like, "No, I'm not so sure if I want it," even if it sounds amazing. I want to see what it actually looks…
Full show notes at the publisherKeepsakes, momentos, treasures, heirlooms — whatever you call them, everyone has certain things that they hold dear. For many people, hand-written notes fall into that category. In a world filled with 240-character tweets, rapid-fire text messages, and a stuffed email inbox, getting a hand-written note means more than ever. Even if it comes from a brand. Personalization is one of the buzziest words in ecommerce, and every business is trying to find a way to give its customers the best, most personal experience possible. David Wachs is helping them with that.David is the CEO of Handwrytten, which uses robots to send personal, hand-written notes, which have a 300% higher open rate than other types of communication. On this episode of Up Next in Commerce, David explains why personalization is the way of the future. Plus, he dives into the thinking behind subscription-based services and what it takes for your subscription to stand out to investors. David also shares the advice that he received from Conan O’Brien that has stayed with him his entire life. Main Takeaways:This is Getting Personal: Over the last few years, consumers have started seeking more personalized experiences. There are many ways to create those experiences in-store and online, but ecomm businesses have a personalization advantage due to the data they have access to. Brands that can tap into that data and then follow through are the ones that stand out. Subscribe Here: Subscription services are popping up everywhere. When done correctly, subscription services provide a recurring revenue model, which is something most investors look for. However, creating the right model takes time, effort, and experimentation, and it’s important to be willing to put in that work to find the model that is best for you and your customers. Here’s Some Advice: When one piece of advice sticks with you 20 years later, that’s something worth paying attention to. Tune in to hear what words of wisdom from Conan O’Brien have inspired David every step of his journey.For an in-depth look at this episode, check out the full transcript below. Quotes have been edited for clarity and length.---Up Next in Commerce is brought to you by Salesforce Commerce Cloud. Respond quickly to changing customer needs with flexible Ecommerce connected to marketing, sales, and service. Deliver intelligent commerce experiences your customers can trust, across every channel. Together, we’re ready for what’s next in commerce. Learn more at salesforce.com/commerce---Transcript:Stephanie:Welcome back to Up Next In Commerce. This is your host, Stephanie Postles, co-founder of mission.org. Today on the show, we have David Wachs, the CEO of Handwrytten, spelled with a Y. David, welcome.David:Thank you so much for having me.Stephanie:Yeah, I'm really excited to have you on the show. I just went down a great wormhole of watching your robots write letters. I think that's a great starting point to hear how you came to be at Handwrytten. What brought you to found it?David:Yeah, so this is actually my second venture. My first one was in the text messaging space. So, I started that one before the iPhone came out. We rode the wave of mobile technology with the iPhone and all that. By the end, we were sending millions of messages a day on behalf of major brands, like Toys R Us, a lot of brands that are now bankrupt, but no fault of ours, but Toys R Us, Sam's Club, OfficeMax, Abercrombie & Fitch, etc.David:What we did was we helped them connect with their customers through text messages. And then we also did iPhone apps and Android apps and all that, but our core was really text messages. What we found was, it really, really worked. I mean, these were not spam messages. These were people opted in, so they actually wanted to receive Abercrombie & Fitch offers, etc, straight to their cell phone. When we sent out those offers, they'd have literally lines out the door.David:We worked with Tropical Smoothie Cafe, which is a big smoothie shop chain. Every time they sent out an offer, I'd walk into a Tropical Smoothie. I'd say, "How's this mobile thing working?" They didn't know who I was, and they'd say, "Oh, my gosh. Every time we do it, we have to staff up, because we sell so many smoothies." So, I knew we had something good. But at the same time, I helped create a monster, because everybody nowadays is getting inundated with probably 50 text messages a day from family and commercial texts and right now, political texts, several hundred emails a day.David:I think the average office workers receives about 150 emails a day and spends 28% of their time sorting through all that email. And then you add stuff like Twitter and Facebook and Slack and all the Instagram, all these other electronic forms of communication. Maybe I'm just old, but for me, it all just becomes noise.Stephanie:It's very noisy right now, especially with the political texts that I'm getting.David:Oh, my God.Stephanie:I'm getting like five a day. Stop it. I don't want that anywhere.David:I know, I know. It all just becomes noise. The average 35 to 44-year-old receives nearly 1,600 texts a month. The average 18 to 24-year-old receives 4,000 a month. So, what I know and what you know is no matter how personalized that email or that text looks... Hey, David, thank you so much for your purchase of this coffee grinder or whatever. ... that text was automated or that email was automated. We immediately discount the value of it, right?David:Half of them or way more than half, I never even read, because you just know it's automated junk. And then junk mail, the slick stuff that comes in your mailbox goes directly to your trash can. But what I realized right before leaving, my last company, is handwritten notes not only do they get opened, but they get treasured. I have a bookshelf behind me at my last job that had the handwritten notes I received. My salespeople had all the handwritten notes they received. What I wanted to do was when I sold my last company is I wanted to send handwritten thank you notes to my employees and send handwritten thank you notes to my best clients, thanking them for helping me build up this company and sell it and all the rest.David:I started doing that. I sat down with the best intentions. Very quickly, my hand got sore or I ran out of stamps or I screwed up a card and I had to get another one. I just realized there had to be a better way. So, that's a long explanation on how I ended up with Handwrytten, which is what we have today. What Handwrytten is a combination of software on the front end and then robots on the back end. So, you visit handwrytten.com or use our iPhone app, Android app, Zapier, Salesforce.com Integration, which is a big integration for us, and I know a sponsor of the show, HubSpot integration, all these ways to get your handwritten notes into the system.David:And then we use robots, real robots that we have a patent pending on and I can get into how we develop those, but they're custom robots we built, robots holding real ballpoint pens that actually then write out the notes and mail them on your behalf. The end result is completely indistinguishable from a human.David:We're doing this for large brands and small brands and individuals. Consumers can go on and send their mother a birthday card, for example, all the way up to major brands.Stephanie:Though your mom might know. She'd be like, "That's not your handwriting, Stephanie." Do you guys have any tech that maybe could mimic handwriting, where I could go in there and write up a couple words, and then your robots come in and write it similar to my handwriting?David:So, not exactly. What we do is if you really want your handwriting recreated, we have worksheets for you. It's like you're back in middle school. You have to fill in all the letters and all the numbers multiple times, because we need multiple variations, and we need ligature combinations. So, like two Os together, two Ls together. Do you cross your two Ts with one crossbar or two? We take all that into account. We create a very robust handwriting just for you, but it's an expensive onetime thing. So, pay for it once, it's yours. It's in the system. You can use it as much as you want, no additional charge. So, yeah, but most of our clients or businesses not you sending to your mother. So, for them, it doesn't really matter as much.David:Honestly, I dissuade people from creating their handwriting style, because it is so expensive.Stephanie:Very cool. So, tell me a little bit about maybe some case studies or the ROI that some of your clients are seeing when they send out a note that looks personalized versus just a typical letter, something that's written up by a computer and is very obvious?David:Yeah, absolutely. Well, I have a bunch of stats here, but I don't want to constantly give you footnotes on the stats. So, if I say any stats that are of interest to any of your listeners, just visit Handwrytten.com. That's Handwrytten with a Y. You can pull up all the resources and double check, be a fact checker, etc. But handwritten on envelopes, just the envelopes, have a 300% or a three-time greater open rate than printed envelopes. You just Google that stat and that pops up everywhere. And then also response rates are anywhere from 20 to 50% higher.David:We work with a bespoke suit company based in Canada. They send out coupons every year around the holidays. Those coupons come with a handwritten note from their CEO and his handwriting style with his signature. Those coupons have an 18% redemption rate when usually the company's coupon redemption rate is closer to the 3 to 5% rate. So, it's been very effective for them.David:We have other clients... Let me see here. We have some retention improvements. So, we have a client that does meal box or actually snack boxes for offices. Basically, they'll send you a huge box of snacks every two weeks with like beef jerky or crackers and cookies and all that. What they do is if they accidentally send your office the wrong snack box, they'll follow up with a handwritten note and the right snacks. Now, obviously, the additional snacks help increase retention, but the handwritten note doesn't hurt.David:What they find is if they screw up a client and they send them this snack box, that customer ends up having a greater lifetime value than if they never screwed up in the first place.Stephanie:That's smart. I mean, not only are you getting more times to get in front of that customer, but then you can show them how great the customer experience is even when things go wrong. Yeah, it seems like you'd be a lot more memorable by actually messing up. That's pretty smart.David:Yeah, and then we have some side effects of these, because most people just get one or two handwritten notes a month now, not like the good old days when they receive a bunch. People literally Instagram and tweet these things. So, we work with a company called VNYL.David:What they are is they are a vinyl record subscription service. So, if you're really into old school vinyl, they will look at your Spotify account and your other... I don't know about Pandora, but your other music services. They'll see what you listen to. And then they'll send you vinyl records that they recommend based on your habits. With those vinyl records, they'll include a handwritten note written by us. So, every day we'll write up a whole bunch of their handwritten notes, send them back to VNYL. They'll get inserted with these orders. Not only people love those notes, they then post them on Instagram and on Twitter. That creates a viral aspect that then helps drive more business back to VNYL.David:We've seen the same thing with a morning YouTube show. It's one of the largest morning YouTube shows on the planet. They're a client of ours. They were launching a fan club, where you'd pay 5 or 25 bucks a month or whatever to be a part of their fan club. The first thing they'd send you was this handwritten note from the two hosts of the morning show.David:What's funny is they didn't change up the language on that note at all. Everybody got the same note with the exception of dear Stephanie or whatever, but the rest of the note was identical. All these people are posting these photos of this note to Twitter over and over again. I mean, it's the same note just different names over and over. People were so upset if their note did not arrive within a few days. You know what I mean? They were so looking forward to receiving a note from these two YouTube guys.Stephanie:Are there any backlash on that? Because I could see some people feeling like maybe they were tricked, or especially earlier, when you're talking about retention. If someone is sending out a set of vinyl records every month and see similar handwriting or the exact same one every single time, it seems like there could be a risk of someone saying, "Hey, this isn't actually authentic. You tricked me." Have you seen that backlash, or how do you guys approach that when it comes to a subscription model with someone who's maybe sending out a same snack box every month with a note in it that people will eventually be like, "Oh, yeah, this is obviously not a person writing it. It's the same every single time"?David:Yeah, that's a great question. So, with VNYL, they've got a number of personalities that are the box curators. So, there's like 10 some odd people that are responsible for making these recommendations. Each one of those people was assigned one of our handwriting styles. So, if you get a note from Cody, it'll be in Tenacious Nick. Our handwriting style is called Tenacious Nick this month. And then next month, you get a message from Suzy, it might be in Chill Charity. The following month if you get one from Cody again, it'll be back in Tenacious Nick. So, you'll associate Tenacious Nick with Cody. And then that's how that works.David:We have not seen a backlash. With the morning YouTube show, I was shocked that they didn't see it because they weren't... We vary stuff on the notes. So, in fact, we worked with a home fitness gym thing. They wanted a note from their founder included with every one of their products. They were annoyed with us that there was variation in the writing. We said, "Well, this is-Stephanie:A good thing.David:"... this isn't a print product. Every line's not supposed to identically look like the other card." They were just not a great client for us, because of that. They wanted everything to be exactly... That's not how people write.Stephanie:Yeah, that's actually the exact question I was going to ask. Do you incorporate errors or smudges? How do you think about building the technology behind the scenes to make it more real?David:Yeah, for sure. So, we actually built our own font engine for one, leveraging some best of class technologies underneath it all. But we do stuff like the left margin of the card is not straight. So, it's not like every letter of every line starts on the same exposition as the line above it. There's what we call jitter. It moves in or moves out very subtly, but a couple of points. A point is a 72nd of an inch for those that don't know, but yeah. So, we move those letters in and out, so that there's some variation there. We also do the same thing with interline or intraline, I always screw that up, but the spacing between lines.David:So, one line might be slightly closer to the line above it and slightly farther from the line below it than the next one and vice versa. So, there is…
Full show notes at the publisherIn the world of ecommerce, there is no greater thorn in the side of shop owners than cart abandonment. When you look at the data, which reveals that cart abandonment is somewhere between 80 to 85% across the board — it’s clear that this is a problem aching for a solution. The reason cart abandonment is so high is because the checkout process is often over-complicated, requires too many clicks, asks the customer to provide too much information, the list goes on. There is so much friction involved that customers with intent to buy never reach the point of conversion. But what if that process could become seamless?Domm Holland, the CEO of Fast, believes he’s achieved that frictionless experience thanks to a democratized one-click checkout solution that works across the internet. On this episode of Up Next in Commerce, Domm explains how that one-click solution works, and why it isn’t the answer to a payment problem, it’s actually solving an identity problem that permeates every industry. Main Takeaways:It’s a Long Road Home: It is a common misconception that the checkout process happens simply when the customer hits the buy button. The truth is that there are many steps to the checkout process, and in most cases they have not been optimized — that’s why cart abandonment rates are so high. In order to get customers to stop abandoning their carts, ecommerce platforms are doing everything they can to create a frictionless experience every step of the way. One and Done: One-click ordering is the gold standard of frictionless checkout. Although some sites claim to have one-click checkout, you often are still multiple clicks away from actually finalizing an order, especially when you’re visiting for the first time, which requires you to fill out identification fields. By solving the identity problem for the consumer and by batching orders on the backend for merchants, Fast created a solution that delivers a true one-click checkout experience across the internet that can be installed directly on product pages.Open Your Mind: In the future, ecommerce will not take place only on ecommerce websites. From social media, to influencer content, to videos and more, one-click shopping will be coming to all of those channels so you will neve have to leave one site to shop on another. This means that opportunities for enterprising ecommerce minds will be there for the taking and those who take action quickly will unlock the value of a frictionless shopping experience and win customers for life.For an in-depth look at this episode, check out the full transcript below. Quotes have been edited for clarity and length.---Up Next in Commerce is brought to you by Salesforce Commerce Cloud. Respond quickly to changing customer needs with flexible Ecommerce connected to marketing, sales, and service. Deliver intelligent commerce experiences your customers can trust, across every channel. Together, we’re ready for what’s next in commerce. Learn more at salesforce.com/commerce---Transcript:Stephanie:Hey everyone. Welcome back to Up Next in Commerce. This is your host, Stephanie Postals, co-founder at mission.org. Joining us today, we have Domm Holland, the co-founder and CEO of Fast. Domm, welcome to the show.Domm:Hey Stephanie. Thanks so much for having me.Stephanie:Yeah, I'm really excited to have you. It's actually perfect because I was just going through a very poor checkout process, and I was like wow, what a perfect interview I have coming today. I think it took about 25 fields to fill in [crosstalk] and I was like I need Domm in my life. So tell me a little bit about Fast. What does Fast do, and how are you guys different?Domm:Yeah, so the simplest way to think of us is we're a one click checkout for the entire internet with no passwords. So it's a button that you'll see on websites that says Fast Checkout. When you click it, you'll instantly buy whatever you're looking at. And that could be a single item, so our button often sits above the add to cart button. So you can click Fast Checkout and just by the product instantly that you're looking at. You don't have to go add to cart, view cart, checkout and then go through 20 fields like you did, and then get to payment. It all happens in one click.Domm:Or you can click add to cart and sort of buy 20 items on the store and then use Fast Checkout at the end. Once you've used Fast Checkout to buy something, then you can track all your deliveries in one place. You can download all your receipts in one place. You can instantly reorder items you've ordered before through Fast from your Fast feed. So we have this fantastic and aggregated post purchase experience, which means again, you don't have to scramble to go back to remember the name of a site you bought something from a month ago and click a link from Gmail and then log in with a password you created for one store to try and find delivery date or something else. So yeah, we just try and make life easy and fast for consumers.Stephanie:That's amazing. So what led you to creating Fast? Was there a problem that you encountered yourself or what excited you about the payment ecosystem?Domm:Yeah, so originally it wasn't a payment problem. And fundamentally I think what Fast is solving for is actually an identity problem and payments is just one component of that. The original inception was I'm married with two little kids and my youngest child was in hospital for a few weeks, so we had my wife's grandmother staying with us and helping us out. One night she was sitting at the kitchen table ordering groceries for us and forgot a password and just couldn't order groceries. One of the largest supermarket chains in Australia, turn over $70 billion a year, just couldn't figure out how to charge a little old lady's credit card a couple hundred dollars for some food because of some broken string of text.Domm:It was just like a hard lockout. For her to be able to buy food, it didn't make sense. So at the time, I've got a [inaudible] of a passwords authentication system that can be used on ecommerce sites. The idea is granny could've just identified herself and then easily logged in and bought the groceries. But I think that I put it online, I had tens of thousands of people use it in a couple days and realize this is a big opportunity.Domm:But fundamentally, passwords aren't a problem, they're a symptom. Again, the problem is that each business requires us to re identify ourselves, which means create new account, create a new password. Login with this password created for one store. Fill in all these fields and forms from scratch. Give them payment information from scratch. Again, from a subscription standpoint, if you lose your credit card, suddenly your Netflix subscription doesn't work. Your [inaudible] subscriptions don't work. Everything is cut off because everyone has these siloed pools of data for us.Domm:So that's fundamentally what we solve for is just you not having to continually tell everyone who you are. I'm 33 years old. My name and date of birth and basic information hasn't changed in over three decades, yet I have to keep filling in forms and telling people as if it's brand new information. It doesn't make sense. So we solve for that and make that really easy. And payment is a part of that, an integral part of that, because it's part of the consumer experience. A lot of our consumer interactions involve financial transactions.Domm:But a lot of the time, it's just fundamentally making it easier for people to leverage their identity online.Stephanie:That's awesome. So earlier you were mentioning about your name and age not changing. What does the back end look like to solve for identity, and why hasn't this been done before?Domm:Yeah. Look, I think that there are companies had the opportunity to do this before. I think Facebook really had that opportunity. But [inaudible] didn't go down the identity space, they went down the advertising road. So rather than use your data to make your data portable and easy for consumers to use, they chose to your data for advertising.Domm:I don't think that from Facebook's perspective, I don't think it was a bad decision. Facebook makes a lot of money from doing that. But it's just a different... they can't then become your trusted source of data, if they're using your data for advertising as their primary source of revenue, then it's not really your trusted source for holding your private and sensitive information.Domm:So I think that there's been opportunities like that and I do think that advertising tends to kill identity products really quickly. But I think the other reality is that people have just kind of thought about things differently, or they've been solving their own problems, or they've been solving for business problems instead of consumer problems. And things like Apple, Apple building an ecosystem that you can now do log in sometimes, you can do check out if you're on Apple device on some sites and with some cards and that type of thing.Domm:They've got limited context, but basically they've got solutions to make it easier for people to perform certain actions if they're within their ecosystem. Same thing is kind of true of Google. Same thing is true of other ecommerce platforms for stores that are on those platforms. And basically what these companies are doing are reinforcing their existing ecosystems. Or further monetizing their existing base of merchants. But they obviously don't want to reward people who aren't in their ecosystem, right?Domm:And so they're fundamentally solving a different problem. Like for us, we're trying to solve the problem of granny being able to buy groceries, like how can we make it fast and easy for people to buy things? And how do we make it fast and easy for people to login? How do we make it fast and easy for people to securely use their data online? And it's just a very different value problem. Our product strategy differs because we're out there trying to solve a consumer problem and most of these companies aren't. I think that's the primary difference that you see shine through in products.Stephanie:Got it. I read that you are a self taught engineer, so tell me a little bit about that, and are you doing the engineering at Fast or no longer are you doing that?Domm:Yeah. Yeah, I've been programming since I was 13, 14. I'm 33 now, so a long time. I always liked to build things, always been fascinated with computers and programming and technology in general. I learned C programming when I was 13, 14 and been building ever sense. I fell in love with it. I built the original Fast V.1. Up until recently actually it was completely built and maintained by me. We now have a very big and strong engineering org and I can say unequivocally that no, I no longer build the Fast infrastructure. The team keep me far away. I don't think I'm the enterprise grade engineer that we need internally. But I'm still very technically involved and involved in a very close level at the product side. Very opinionated as how products should work, obviously.Domm:Allison, my co founder and I, both have very strong visions as to how we think the future of identity, future of payments, future of commerce should work. And really want to see that come to life through our products.Stephanie:That's great. So what was the first thing you built when you were 13? Do you remember?Domm:Yeah. So the first program I ever wrote was a script to determine if a word was a palindrome. My ex stepdad actually was a computer scientist and a programmer. He, myself, and the sys admin of a university in Australia, each wrote our own version of the script and then measured the speed and had a competition to see whose script would perform the fastest calculation. It was the first-Stephanie:That's great. How it all got started. I love that. So with everything that's happening right now with the pandemic, I can see a very big problem happening around new scans that are coming back because you have a lot more people who are now using digital payments that maybe they weren't doing that in the past. It seems like there's a big opportunity there for people to take advantage. So how are you guys approaching this landscape now? Is it different now than it maybe would have been a year ago, the problems that you're having to solve around security?Domm:Yeah. Internally, we've been absolutely focused on security since day one. So we hired a VP of security before we hired our first engineering manager. We really built out the security function very early. Honestly for a company of our stage, I would unequivocally say had the most sophisticated security posture of all. We have a lot of different programs in place. And really it's because we're managing data and payments. It's essentially our business. So we're just very intentional and have been about embedding into our culture as a culture of security and privacy from day one.Domm:And it's a really important piece. The reality is that it's not that interesting from a consumer's perspective. They're far less interested in security than they should be. So that doesn't mean that we shouldn't care about it, it just means that we don't talk about it a lot. It's not a benefit that's going to drive consumers in droves to sign up for Fast. One click check out drives consumers and drives to sign up for Fast. But the reality is, we need to keep them safe when they do, and security is an integral part of that. Same thing is true of merchants and in reducing fraud and charge [inaudible] and so forth.Domm:So we invest a lot into that at every level of our product from application design perspective and a system design perspective and infrastructure and internal policies and whatever else. We think about it a lot. The reality is that our product is extremely well poised to reduce both consumer fraud or merchant fraud and identity theft and so forth because we sit as an identity solution, as first and foremost. So when it comes to making a transaction, typically everyone's transactions are siloed. Everyone's data vaults are siloed. So every store is operating independently. They're kind of only looking at their own historical data primarily as the determinant risk. Whereas the beautiful thing about Fast is that because we sit across every store, because you can use your identity hold with Fast at every different merchant and all the different sites across the internet, we can in a really sophisticated manner, help to reduce that risk because we can gauge risk against your profile and past purchases and log in history and so forth, and identify anomalies. So it really means that we can keep consumers far more safe than basically any other solution.Stephanie:Yeah. That's really great. I think anyone who is working with you would feel really good about having those safety measures in place because I was just reading about how many people are now using debit cards, especially with contact less payments. But that a lot of merchants aren't asking for pins anymore because it's too much friction when it comes to payments. And I never even thought about that, that a merchant can be like, "Ah no, I'm not going to ask for the pin for your debit card because it takes too much time." That's a huge risk. Your debit card can be linked to your entire savings.Domm:Yeah. Look, absolutely. In Australia, we launched [inaudible] chip cards earlier than the US and really years ago [inaudible] chip cards were mandatorily introduced through…
Full show notes at the publisherThe best way to chart a path forward is to understand the state of the industry and the possible changes that could occur in the near future. In business, that means keeping an eye on all of the trends in your industry, analyzing data collected by yourself or others, and letting the insights be your guide. One of the most popular places to find insights is through industry reports put together by large organizations that have access to billions of data points, which can be graphed out and analyzed on a deeper level. The Shopping Index is one of those reports. It is put out quarterly by Salesforce and it contains information about consumer behavior, shopping activity across numerous platforms, and a look into how different industries are performing. In one of the most recent Shopping Index reports, Salesforce collected information from more than one billion global shoppers in order to paint an accurate picture of what the world of ecommerce looks like. On this episode of Up Next in Commerce, we break down some of the key findings in the report with the two people who helped put it together, Caila Schwartz and Ann Marie Aviles. Caila is the Senior Manager of Strategy and Insights, Retail and Consumer Goods at Salesforce and Ann Marie is the Senior Associate of Industry Strategy & Insights at Salesforce. So what’s ahead for the holiday season? How much of the consumer behavior adopted during the pandemic will stick around? And why do people stay loyal to a brand? Find out on this episode.Main Takeaways:Invest in the Basics, Not the New Shiny Object: Even if you have the coolest new technology and a unique website experience, if your customer gets to the point of purchase and sees you don’t have inventory or that delivery will take weeks, that customer is lost. Make sure you have the basics covered before you start bringing anything extra to your site. Come In, Stay Awhile: Past data has proven that when consumers adopt new digital behaviors, they tend to stick with that behavior. As every holiday season passes, and more people shop online, those customers are maintaining that online behavior long-term. Each holiday season can be viewed as a stepping stone in digital growth. The holiday season can create a new normal if you have a strategy to meet demand and then retain the consumer.Move to Mobile: In recent years, and especially during the pandemic, there has been a significant shift toward mobile and social shopping. As the number one driver of orders, mobile experiences should be a top priority for any business owner in the future.For an in-depth look at this episode, check out the full transcript below. Quotes have been edited for clarity and length.---Up Next in Commerce is brought to you by Salesforce Commerce Cloud. Respond quickly to changing customer needs with flexible Ecommerce connected to marketing, sales, and service. Deliver intelligent commerce experiences your customers can trust, across every channel. Together, we’re ready for what’s next in commerce. Learn more at salesforce.com/commerce---Transcript:Stephanie Postles:Welcome, welcome to our very first roundtable style episode. This is Stephanie Postles, Co-Founder of mission.org and your host of Up Next in Commerce. Today, we are chatting with Caila Schwartz and Ann Marie Aviles. Ladies, welcome to the show.Caila Schwartz:Thank you.Ann Marie:Thanks for having us.Stephanie Postles:Yeah, I'm excited. It should be interesting having a three person call, like I said, it's the first one. So we'll see where it goes. It'll be fun. So, Caila, can you first introduce yourself? Tell me a little bit about you and your role?Caila Schwartz:Yeah, so I'm Caila Schwartz. I've been with Salesforce for six years now. I am on the Industry Strategy and Insights team focusing on retail and consumer goods. And I am responsible for several initiatives throughout the year that our team puts out into market, which include our quarterly shopping index, as well as all of our holiday reporting. So really utilizing real shopping data to understand the consumer and help put together some insights that can help our customers make some strategic decisions.Stephanie Postles:Amazing. And Ann Marie, what about you? Tell me a little bit about your role?Ann Marie:Yeah, happy to. So I'm also on Caila's team, but I have a slightly different focus. So I've been at Salesforce for just about a year and a half now by the way of Forrester research. So my background is definitely in research. And so I'd like to think of the shopping index as a fine line and I provide the cheese and the consumer perspective on what their priorities are, how their habits are changing through a lot of in depth research work.Stephanie Postles:Amazing. So that's a good place to start, then I really want to dive deep into the shopping index. So maybe Ann Marie, if you want to start there telling me a little bit about how long is the shopping index been around? What is it? And how can a customer or any shop owner use the shopping index to further their business?Ann Marie:Sure. So for this one, I think Caila, since she actually created the shopping index would be the perfect person to describe its origin story.Stephanie Postles:Perfect, Caila, take it away.Caila Schwartz:Thank you, Ann Marie. Well, I can't claim the genius behind it because it was actually created by someone much smarter than myself, a several, several years ago. I would say about maybe its seven years ago. So we've been publishing, like I said, the shopping index quarterly for the past ... I want to say six or seven years. So it's one of our longest running assets. I inherited it about four years ago. And it came out of a project or initiative to understand the consumer. And back in the day we were from the Demandware. So I worked for Demandware, before I got acquired by Salesforce, and we had access to all of this data from our platform.Caila Schwartz:And internally, we started asking questions about how we could potentially use this data to help give insights to our customers on consumer behavior. And the shopping index was born. So it's really become the bedrock piece of content that helps us start to ask questions that then lead to a lot of these other great pieces of content and research that we do. So like I said, it's our longest running asset. But as far as how consumers or customers are using it, it really is a benchmarking tool. And it's meant to be like a sounding board.Caila Schwartz:How are you performing against your peers? Is there opportunity for improvement? And using it as a way to uncover some of those questions for customers, about their business, and areas that they can focus on?Stephanie Postles:[inaudible 00:04:51]. That's a good point to go through what are some of the really key metrics that people find the most value in and maybe we can talk through maybe what Q2 look like. What are some of the things that people really rely on?Caila Schwartz:That's a great question. I think it really depends on the individual business and what their unique challenges are. I know that right now, everyone's experiencing some really big searches in digital activity on their websites. So the biggest question that we have right now is, is this normal? Am I doing well, compared to my competitors? Am I not doing as well? So, bringing it back to those core metrics around traffic growth, spend growth, conversion rates. So really bringing it back to the basics almost, of understanding and getting really a basic understanding of performance compared to the market.Stephanie Postles:Yes, this report sounds awesome. I'm looking through it right now, it looks like it's in a really cool Tableau dashboard, which is really fun, and easy to digest. Some of the things that I'm looking at now are when it comes to computer and mobile growth, it seems like ... now it seems obvious, but a lot of people have shifted to mobile, but then maybe the cart abandonment piece has not increased as much, maybe if you can talk a little bit about that. I'm trying to think if I'm a shop owner, and right now all my traffic has been on desktop, and now it's shifted in to mobile, but then I'm not able to convert the customers as well. What are you seeing behind that data to maybe help with that piece?Caila Schwartz:Yeah. In an example like that, where we can break it down by device and say, "Hey, we're seeing a lot of traffic coming from mobile, but it's not converting as well." Mobile traffic is up, traffic overall is up. The conversion is far down, or looking at your add To cart rate or your cart abandonment rate to see, are consumers getting to that cart? And are they finishing that checkout process? So, trying to identify those points of friction within the shopping journey, using this data, and so if we see that there's a high level of cart abandonments, or checkout abandonment, that would lead me to believe that there's something about that checkout experience that isn't ideal. And we see that, especially on mobile.Caila Schwartz:The mobile shopping experience, at least the checkout experience it's come a long way in recent years, but the whole tapping in all of your little form fields on your mobile device is really cumbersome. And so, thinking about ways to flatten that funnel through mobile wallets, whether it's through Pay Pal, or Apple Pay, or Google pay. So those are some of the ways that a shop owner could utilize that data to see, okay, where are the points of friction within that shopping journey? And mobile is the number one driver of traffic and orders. And we've seen over the past several years mobile really accelerate as the number one device for consumers.Caila Schwartz:So as a business owner, if you're thinking about what device to prioritize, creating a great mobile experience is going to be the top of your priority list. But what's interesting about 2020 is that even though we're still seeing this massive shift to mobile, which we still are, computers have actually had a resurgence. And it really highlights the need to have a great experience across all of your touchpoints. So even if you're focusing on mobile, you have to think about providing a great experience, no matter where the consumer chooses to engage with you. And I think that's something that is really easy to forget, because sometimes you can get so hyper focused on one particular device or channel or tactic, and it really is about the big picture.Stephanie Postles:Yeah, I completely agree. I can also see some of these ... like you said, these are things that you can benchmark your business against, and it would give me peace of mind anyways, if I could say, "What is the average?" And it's nice that on your [inaudible] report, you have it, or you can select it by vertical. So I was just looking at a footwear vertical because we've had Puma and Little Burgundy shoes on and being able to see what is the average order value and the discount rate that other people are offering and the cart abandonment like, "Oh, okay, maybe 80 something percent is actually has always been normal, so what can I do to become better than that?" Or if I'm worse than that, at least I know what the average is. So it seems like you could not only give peace of mind, but then also see areas where a shop owner could improve, which is great.Caila Schwartz:Exactly. Remember, these are just averages so and there's people that are doing better, there's people that are doing worse. So where do you stand amongst that? And then where are those opportunities for improvement?Stephanie Postles:Yeah. Tell me a little bit about the social traffic data you guys collect? Because I'm looking at that now, and it shows the social traffic share increasing by mobile. And I think I know what that means, but maybe detail that a bit so I can see what the opportunity is, by that share increasing?Caila Schwartz:Yeah. So our social data that we collect is coming from the social referral data. So data from a social platform, whether it's Instagram, or Facebook, or Pinterest, any channel that's directing traffic to an ecommerce website, as a referral. It's also paid in organic. So we're collecting that visit data and we're looking at it through the lens of, okay, is this social referral from a mobile device, is it from a computer? And then we look at it overall. And then the percentages within that chart are looking at the share of traffic, against all other sources of traffic. So if it says, 10% of mobile traffic, or 10% social share for mobile devices, that means that 10% of all mobile traffic came from a social referral channel.Stephanie Postles:Yeah, that makes sense. We've actually heard that theme, quite a bit from many previous guests, where they're talking about the social shopping experience and how they're relying on influencers, and how, of course, there's a lot of platforms Instagram, TikTok that people are looking at right now. But that seems like if a shop is not playing there or a brand is not there, you should probably be there, because it's rising.Caila Schwartz:Oh, totally. And Ann Marie can really go into more detail on this, but in our snapshot series, research, we did some research on just the different types of pieces of content that consumers are engaged with, and I know social was right up there. Ann Marie, can you elaborate on what you guys found from that?Ann Marie:Totally. Yeah, happy to. So you're totally right. Social is the talk of the town right now. Typically, we see social referred traffic hit around 9-10% around the holidays, which is when you see all of those peak online numbers. But now that's just the usual during quarantine times when everybody's IRL lives have been pushed online. And through the snapshot research series that we did, where we surveyed thousands of consumers every two weeks to see how their shopping habits were changing, how their emotional states were changing over time. And we found that since the onset of the pandemic, 63% of US millennials, said they had made a purchase over social media.Ann Marie:So it's really turning into ... we like to call it the mall of the 21st century because social media platforms are where you can congregate with your friends, you can chat and you can discover new artists and new products. So as you called out before, we're seeing Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, all definitely cash in with awesome new features, which just continues fueling the fire. The easier it is to sign up for a product drop, or learn about a new makeup line, the more consumers flock to it, and then the more innovation these companies provide on the back end. So it really is exciting.Stephanie Postles:That's great. Are there any new channels that you guys saw popping up that maybe others wouldn't be aware of right now?Ann Marie:So one big trend that we're seeing, explode over in Asia was shoppable videos. So during the pandemic, I love this example because it was so wild to me. Rural farmers started live streaming their different produce because they no longer had access to things like farmers markets. And I believe the stat now is on ... In Taobao, we have over 50,000 rural farmers that will sell their different fruits and vegetables and produce to an online audience that will just see the video and immediately click tap and make the purchase. We even saw that Shanghai did their fashion week, all online where you could stream models coming down the runway, and immediately say, I definitely want that dress or those shoes and make the purchase in real time.Stephanie Postles:That's great. What platform was that, where you can a…
Full show notes at the publisherHaven’t had a chance to listen to our first 50 episodes yet? Never fear, you’ve got time and they’re not going anywhere. In the meantime, we’ve created an epic recap episode to keep you up to date with this ever-changing world. Throughout the first 50 episodes of Up Next in Commerce, we’ve chatted with some of the fastest-growing startups - like Thrive Market and Haus - to the more well-known companies like Puma, Rosetta Stone, Bombas, and HP. Our guests have shared everything from their toughest lessons, to their secrets to success, to the must-know advice for every ecomm leader. And while every company is different and every story unique, over the last 50 episodes, several common themes have emerged. On today’s special episode of Up Next in Commerce, host Stephanie Postles is joined by Albert Chou, the VP of Operations at Mission.org, to dive into some of these top trends.The two discuss the supply chain shakeups companies have had to face this year, and they do a deep dive into the world of influencers and how brands can work with them in a way that leads to lasting ROI. Plus, they look into their crystal balls to try to predict how DTC companies will work with and compete against Amazon, debate on how voice search will impact shopping, and discuss what the future of shoppable worlds might look like. Main Takeaways:Supply Chain Shakeups: Everyone is competing against the hard-to-match expectations set by Amazon — but it’s not all about fast shipping. Processing returns effectively and managing every step of the supply chain so you are left with margins that actually allow you to grow are the main areas that all retailers are, and will continue to be, focused on. I’ll Take One Order of Influencers: Because influencer marketing has become so in demand, there are more strategies than ever to try to get the most ROI out of influencers. What is likely to happen in the future is the creation of a marketplace where brands can buy verified influencers, who are themselves driving the demand for more upfront payment. Make It Worth It: Building an omnichannel strategy is about more than just offering a brick and mortar location for people to buy your products. Today’s shoppers are looking for experiences that are memorable and entertaining. But it’s important that while brands create those memorable experiences, they don’t forget that little goal of converting potential customers into real buyers.Turning Virtual Into Reality: Shoppable video and the increased offerings of digital products is going to set the stage for future commerce. The next generation is already using real cash to buy virtual products for their avatars in various games. In years to come, not only will you have the option for your avatar to have that virtual product, the real-life version will be offered in tandem for the user behind the screen.For an in-depth look at this episode, check out the full transcript below. Quotes have been edited for clarity and length.---Up Next in Commerce is brought to you by Salesforce Commerce Cloud. Respond quickly to changing customer needs with flexible Ecommerce connected to marketing, sales, and service. Deliver intelligent commerce experiences your customers can trust, across every channel. Together, we’re ready for what’s next in commerce. Learn more at salesforce.com/commerce---Transcript:Stephanie:Hey everyone, and welcome back to Up Next in Commerce. This is your host, Stephanie Postles, co-founder of mission.org. Today, it's a new and interesting episode where I have our VP of ops, Albert Chou on the show, where we're going to go through the previous 50 episodes and talk about highlights, and then talk about future trends that maybe no one has talked about on the show so far. Albert, welcome.Albert:Yeah, thanks for having me. But to be clear, we're not going to go by the 50 episodes one by one because-Stephanie:We're doing one by one.Albert:No, that's terrible. We can't do it. Cannot do it.Stephanie:So, Albert, tell our listeners why did I invite you on the show?Albert:Well, I do have my own ecommerce business, www.[inaudible 00:00:41].com, I've also helped out on a couple others. The biggest one got to 10 million a year. And I worked for an ecommerce startup. One of the co-founders was a guest on the show AddShoppers. So, been working in the game of ecommerce probably since 2016 and still operating today, so learned from painful mistakes, as well as seeing other people have great success.Stephanie:Yeah, you always have some really good feedback and comments on our prep docs. Our amazing producer, Hilary, will put together an awesome prep doc for every episode for me, and then you come in along with all your other job responsibilities at mission, with the VP of ops, you do everything here, but you also come in and add some good questions and comments, and that's why I thought it would be fun to bring you on. So, thanks for hopping on here with me.Albert:Yeah, let's do it.Stephanie:So, to start, I thought we could kind of go through just some high level trends, because through all the episodes that I've had and all the guests we've had on the show so far, there's actually quite a bit of similarities that I heard. And starting with the first one, I think talking about supply chains is really interesting, because so many of the guests who've come on have talked about the shake up in supply chains that they've seen and how they're kind of pivoting and what they're experiencing, and I think that might be a good place to start.Albert:Well, when they talk about supply chain, everyone's competing against what Amazon has created, right? Amazon has created this expectation that you can get what you want, when you want it pretty darn fast. And so if you're any direct consumer brand, or any brand out there, if you're a retailer, that's what's becoming the now norm, right? Can you send it to your customer really fast, and can you take it back? That's like probably the most painful part of ecommerce is the fact that you do have a percentage of tolerance for returns. So, the tighter your supply chain is, the more margins you can create in the process, the more able you can take a return without losing everything. So, it makes total sense that every business is trying to figure this out, how to get closer to the consumer, how to make things closer to the customer, how to make sure that they can take back whatever is being sent back. So, it's just matching what the new customer expectation is.Stephanie:Yeah. I think it was also very interesting, talking to the ShipBob guy where he was talking about how you can basically tap into different fulfillment centers by using them, whereas before, everything with COVID, a lot of people actually were shipping all the way across the country and not really looking at maybe location based ordering. Maybe some people were, but I found that kind of a good shake up that now people are starting to think about how to do things more efficiently and how also not just to rely on one supply chain, because a lot of them maybe are going out of business right now, a lot of the warehouses are having issues, there's a lot of inventory issues. So, it's good to have not all your eggs in one basket.Albert:So, it's not just that. So, there's companies out there that are investing into logistics infrastructure specifically for other people to share. So, similar to ShipBob, there's other competitors in that field. But it goes further than that. If you take a look at some of the publicly traded companies, one of the larger ecommerce platforms, they have invested heavily in infrastructure and warehousing. I know that ChannelAdvisor did the same exact thing. They literally bought a warehousing logistics company. And ChannelAdvisor, for the longest time, has been a company that helps you as a merchant, list your products across the different marketplaces. So, if Stephanie's t-shirt company wants to list their product across Amazon, they want to list it across Rakuten, they want to list it across eBay, and maybe some others, she would still have to ship and fulfill from her own store.Albert:Now, why did ChannelAdvisor build that tool so you can list one product and get it plugged in everywhere? So, why did they invest in all these warehousing companies? Now, it hasn't come to full service yet but you can kind of see it down the road like the supply chain is where the innovation is going to occur. And I think you're going to continue to see that, you're going to see more entrance in it, and it's just non stop, that race will never stop. Basically, a customer can never get something fast enough. You know what I mean? There's always going to be this push to get it there faster.Stephanie:Yeah. It's also interesting hearing about certain companies trying to compete with shipping models against Amazon and trying to have one in two day shipping. It feels like such a hard thing to create from scratch now, but if you can figure that out, you're going to win.Albert:So, I don't know if you know this, Steph. I've also sold through FBA Amazon.Stephanie:I think you told me that?Albert:Do you know [crosstalk 00:05:37]?Stephanie:What did you sell, first of all?Albert:It was an adult card game.Stephanie:I don't want to hear anymore. This is a kid friendly show.Albert:It was not kid friendly. But how it worked is, so I got my order in China, and I had 5,000 pieces, literally shipped it to an FBA Center in New Jersey, never touched the product, and then Amazon automatically redistributed it across as its fulfillment network. And I would get updates like, "Oh, we're moving two boxes to Texas." "Why?" Because we predict, in Texas, someone will buy this, and therefore by moving it closer to the customer, we can reduce the shipping with our internal [crosstalk 00:06:20]."Stephanie:Do you have an influence over that prediction model.Albert:No.Stephanie:Because now more than ever, I'm like, how can anyone predict anything? I mean, there was a really good quote about like, should we be preparing for more people to buy Inkjet printers because they're all working from home, or extra freezers to prepare for the worst? It feels like there's no way to predict for that, so how do they even know that there's a couple in Texas who might want that?Albert:So, add to cart. I think add to cart is what they're doing, right? They're looking at how many people are adding to cart and then they're also looking at the percentage of conversion over time of people who do add to cart. So, if you see a bunch of cart adds for this product or a bunch of search volume increasing for a product in a specific area, you can automatically assume that that product is going to be in demand in that area. They've probably gotten it down to a super exact science.Stephanie:Yeah, I'm not going to question them. I'm sure they got it.Albert:Yeah. And since they're always moving products within their own fulfillment network everywhere, they see that there's a probability that this is going to happen, they just move it closer to you so that when they finally rely on last mile logistics, they've got it as close as possible so that they don't have to pay so much.Stephanie:Yeah, that makes sense. All right. So, the next one I want to kind of move into is influencers. So, first, we did a survey of our audience and a lot of people wanted to hear about influencers. How do I use influencers? What's a good way to actually get a good ROI on it? And a lot of our guests actually mentioned influencers as well. Some people were trying it out and were like, "I don't actually know if this is even working." Other people were having great success but were trying different models. So, I don't know if you've listened to the fancy.com CEO, Greg Spillane episode.Albert:I did.Stephanie:Okay. Well, first of all, that guy's a badass. I mean, making that company his stories. Like did you hear about how he went into a warehouse or a storage locker and found a bunch of credit cards that the founders were giving away with like $1,000 on it, and they were just giving it away to influencers just to try and get them to use fancy.com? Did you hear some of the stories that he was going through about what he experienced when coming into the company to try and turn it around?Albert:I mean, it's the classic, right? It's the classic problem in marketing, right? You're pretty sure some of it is going to work, some people say it's up to half, you just don't know which half, right? And so you're just blowing money trying to get more movement, but I get what they were originally trying to do makes total sense. I mean, you read about the stories of businesses like Gymshark, which built their whole business model off of influencers, and I think they just got a private equity valuation into the billions, so everyone wants to jump on that train.Albert:The problem is influencers themselves have created this marketplace, right? So, if you claim you're an influencer, and you have hundreds of thousands of followers on Instagram, now influencers, they don't want to work on commission, they want to work on upfront fees. So, there's this new network which you're now going to see tools come into place of helping merchants buy influence. And so that's the next wave, right? Because I mean, there's a lot of influencers that are frauds or they have no influence on their audience whatsoever, they just have a big Instagram following for whatever reason.Stephanie:Yeah. They just [crosstalk 00:09:30].Albert:That's why the merchants are so frustrated.Stephanie:Oh, yeah. I mean, it's hard to know. You can see someone with a million followers, and something that I saw that was actually a good reminder for anyone with a small business was they're talking about how you can see if those followers have an intent to buy. So, if you have some influencer on there and they're showcasing some purse, or some lipstick, or whatever it might be, and the people in the comments are like, "Oh cute," or, "Pretty" or just liking it, they actually don't have followers who have an intent to buy. Versus you might see more micro influencers, like people that follow from around the area or something, and the people in those comments are like, "Where do I get that jacket from?" Like, "Please link up your shirt."Stephanie:And those are the kind of influences you want to go after because you actually know that if you're in front of their audience, they're ready to buy because they trust that person, which seems like it's kind of shifting, whereas before it was like just get the big name, the big followers, and now it's more like, "Let's make sure we get an ROI. How do we make sure to track this stuff and see some good conversions from it?"Albert:Yeah. I mean, you don't know what you don't know, so all you're looking at is what you assume is a big audience. And so that's the biggest misconception in social media, it doesn't determine their purchasing behaviors. It's just, "I like this person because I think she looks good, or I think he looks good, or I think he's funny. I'm not going to buy anything.Stephanie:Yeah, I can definitely see tools coming out soon, or maybe they're already out in the world, showing like here are kind of the demographics of this person's followers. So, you can sign up with an influencer and also see the income level, the job title, so you know that what you're getting with that i…
Full show notes at the publisherEvery shopping experience is unique, and every shopper has specific wants and needs. That is one of the biggest struggles brands face in the world of ecommerce. How do you create a customer experience that resonates with and meets the needs of drastically different customers?This problem is magnified further when you run a marketplace that sells literally millions of different products to tens of millions of different users. eBay has 180 million active users, which, according to Bradford Shellhammer, means that there needs to be 180 million different eBays to meet each of those users’ exact needs. Bradford is the Vice President of Buyer Experience at eBay, and part of his job is to make every eBay user fall in love with their eBay experience.On this episode of Up Next in Commerce, Bradford explains what that looks like in practical terms, including how they approached a home page redesign, the importance of testing and experimentation, and the methods they have used to build trust among users. Main Takeaways:Do You Trust Me?: Trust is an essential part of the buying experience, and these days, companies are finding more innovative ways to establish trust with users. In marketplaces, typical product reviews might not be the best way to build trust with shoppers, instead, you have to find alternative ways to connect with customers and intervene if something goes wrong. Please Rate And Review: Gathering feedback and information from users is a critical method companies use to improve their customer experience. Typically, brands will send out surveys or ask for feedback in an email, but there are better, more strategic and enticing ways to get the feedback you need. And sometimes that means utilizing channels you may not have traditionally relied on or creating brand new customer feedback channels yourself.Test, Test, Test Again: Nothing should be added to your website or brand experience unless it has been thoroughly tested. Both internal and external experimentation is necessary to ensure that when you make a change, or add something to your site, you already know that it is what your customers want and it works the way it was designed to work.For an in-depth look at this episode, check out the full transcript below. Quotes have been edited for clarity and length.---Up Next in Commerce is brought to you by Salesforce Commerce Cloud. Respond quickly to changing customer needs with flexible Ecommerce connected to marketing, sales, and service. Deliver intelligent commerce experiences your customers can trust, across every channel. Together, we’re ready for what’s next in commerce. Learn more at salesforce.com/commerce---Transcript:Stephanie:Welcome back to another episode of Up Next in Commerce. I'm your host, Stephanie Postles, co-founder of mission.org. Joining us today is Bradford Shellhammer, the Vice President of the Buyer Experience at eBay. Bradford, welcome.Bradford:Thank you. Thanks for having me. Excited to be here.Stephanie:Yeah, I'm really excited to have you on. eBay, such an awesome name brand. I'm excited to dive into all things eBay. I've been a long time buyer there. But first, I want to go into your background of what brought you to eBay? I see that you founded a couple companies, a couple ecommerce companies and I was hoping you can touch on that before we jump into eBay.Bradford:Yeah. I think it's super cool to talk about because it's actually super personal. For me, it's a pretty interesting story. So, it's a love affair, essentially, between myself and eBay. I've been a buyer on the platform since 1999 because we can trace back and see in our internal database how long we've been shopping and when we created our account.Bradford:So, I've been a customer of eBay for over 20 years. And the companies that I started, two of the three were marketplaces. And they were marketplaces that were really founded on two principles, both of them, one was for buyers, helping them find treasure, awesome stuff, unique things, feeling some passion or interest and for seller is propping up the little guy.Bradford:Both of the companies that I found at Fab and Bezar were both heavily in the design space, in the modern design space, so that's furniture, graphic arts, posters, lighting, jewelry, handbags, accessories and things so fashion design, but my personal love affair with collecting.Bradford:I have over 400 pairs of shoes. I have a massive art collection. I have probably more chairs than most people. Most of these purchases over the last 25 years have been made on eBay. And so, for me, I've inspired by the hunt on eBay what we call internally the eBay a power user, a power customer.Bradford:And now, I have this awesome responsibility to help other people fall in love with and use eBay the way that I do. So, I was hired four and a half years ago. I met the chief product officer who had some interest in one of my companies, Bezar.Bradford:Turns out I sold that to another company, an Australian company, and I became a free market... was on the market and I was a free agent. And I'd never really worked at a real company before, a big company, the previous 12 years is doing my own thing.Bradford:And so, they said, "Well, come join eBay." And my first role was the chief curator of eBay. And frankly, it was a made up role. And everyone thought I had great taste. And when I got to eBay, I really thought my job was going to be curating through eBay and surfacing that up to consumers.Bradford:And what I quickly realized is that eBay scale is so much bigger than one person's taste. And that some people are curating parts for a vintage Mercedes on eBay. And some people like myself are collecting design, and maybe other people are just using eBay because they have six kids, and money's tight and buying them all new iPhones is just not possible, so they're looking for great deals.Bradford:And so, I really quickly just became very empathetic to the eBay customer's journey and it said, "Wow. Bradford, this is not about you. Can you help build tools to help other people find the things that they love rather than forcing your point of view or something that you love on people?"Bradford:And then, I moved into our product org, my second year and the first project I took on was our homepage. We redesigned it. We built a lot of new algorithms and it became a science powered hub for you. And the goal was that there's 180 million active buyers on eBay.Bradford:There should be 180 million different eBays because everybody's eBay is different. It's not like other big box retailers or other mass market ecommerce players where we're buying commodity products or everybody's buying the same thing.Bradford:And my team really builds the experience that should adapt and respond to customer's interest and helping them find what they're looking for.Stephanie:That's great. So, taking on the homepage design seems like a lot of responsibility. Tell me a bit about what that looked like. I mean, what are the customer buying behavior look like before and what do they look like now and how did you get there?Bradford:Yeah. That's a good question. So, I inherited an experience that was about five years old and it was called the Feed and that was the homepage. And it was a Pinterest-esque experience. And so, when customers would save things, we have this concept called saving, there's a little heart, you click on it and it saves.Bradford:You can save a search. You can save a seller. You can watch a single individual item. It would populate a visual grid of like products that are related to that. The problem with that is that it required customers to groom their own experience. And so, for power customers, the feed was awesome.Bradford:Because like myself, I have 150 saved searches and it's just this beautiful grid of new products populating every day of hitting all the either brands that I'm following or the sellers that I love what they're selling. But for the normal shopper, not your power customer, they were really missing out on personalized content because we literally required them to do work to curate it themselves.Bradford:So, the project that we decided to do is, was there a hybrid of that? Could you still have some of that content for the power user be front and center on the homepage?Bradford:But could you have machine learning and science pick up behaviors patterns of just what people are clicking on or searching for or which emails they're opening and have that be enough to curate a homepage experience without them having to do the explicit work of saying show me more of this on clicking on a heart or saying I want to save this.Bradford:And so, what happened was more people with as a result of that first product we launched, more people ended up having personalized content which was a win. Because previously, it was personalized content mostly just for power customers. Now, a more casual customer still gets that benefit.Stephanie:Got it, that's great. So, when it comes to projects like that, internally, I'm sure there was a lot of stakeholders and a lot of people had a lot of different ideas. How did you rally everyone around getting a homepage launch without taking, I mean, I could see that project taking maybe like a year at other companies [crosstalk 00:07:10].Bradford:Yeah. Well, first of all, I don't want to give away too much of the sausage making, but eBay is surprisingly entrepreneurial. We move pretty fast. And we don't, I think, have a lot of the bureaucracy that probably a lot of companies of our scale have.Bradford:So, first of all, I almost felt like, "Wow, they gave me the keys to the car." And for the most part, we have a very strong test and learn culture. So, we don't just flip the switch on something and see how it works. We test and learn and we do lots of hundreds and hundreds of AB tests and we're constantly testing everything.Bradford:So, we would never launch anything that didn't resonate with our customers. So, there were safety, I think, baked into all of our hypotheses knowing that you have to actually prove that something that an idea you had is worthy of launch. But I think that that's where I think my entrepreneurial background and my non tech background.Bradford:I've started companies, but I don't have a formal technology education at all. I have a fashion design degree and a communications degree. So, this is where I think just the hitting the pavement and telling a story and crafting a vision and getting people to march along with you whether they're marketers or engineers, or designers, or whatever I think suited me in this role in the early days.Stephanie:Yeah, that's really cool. See, when you were talking about the AB testing, how you guys test everything, were there any surprises of something that you thought was really going to work and it actually failed?Bradford:Oh, that's a good question. I'm trying to think of, you know what, I have to be honest, I don't want to say this because my team is super smart. But I think that the best product managers and the best designers and the best experiences out there are ones that are really rooted in want something super simple, just listening to your customer.Bradford:And so, if you're literally baking all your hypothesis and lit really listening like combing through feedback, we have myriad of surveys on different pages. We do lots of focus groups. We do tons of research, user research. We do tons of dogfooding internally.Bradford:You weed out the things that aren't going to work way before you even start to build them usually. And so, for us, it's like if you have that real commitment to just listening to your customer through the process rather than having someone come in and just say, "I want to do this thing."Bradford:Because when you listen to your actual customers, there's a real great respect for them and you actually don't want to break their current experience, you just want to make it better. And I think a lot of times where I've seen products fail, and I'm not going to go into the details of what they were.Bradford:But I have seen maybe not so much in my team, but I have seen this happen both in and outside of eBay is usually when someone that doesn't really have the customer's voice in their head is just like either taking something that's their personal preference or looking at a competitor that may look like a competitor from the outside, so a lot of companies are compared to eBay because they sell things online.Bradford:But if you really look at eBay and why people shop at eBay, it's a very different customer than a lot of the big players. So, constantly comparing ourselves to, I think, other competitors who aren't really competitors other than they compete for wallets share not with the heart and soul of our customers.Bradford:I think sometimes is where I've seen product managers go off and usually go somewhere that's at the end of the day, it just wasn't what our customers were asking for and that's our job.Bradford:Our job is to literally listen to our customers and build experiences for them, and take the things they love, make it better, and take the things they hate and change it. And I really think that if you ground yourself and your whole organization in that just like real deep customer empathy, you don't make too many mistakes.Stephanie:Yeah. I'm thinking about surveying customers right now. How do you frame questions in a way that will actually get you what you need when it comes to like how to shape an experience? Because I could see framing in a way that actually gives you maybe the wrong [crosstalk] customers tell you something that leads you down the wrong path.Stephanie:Or, it's like, "Oh, someone says they want that." But actually, no one's going to really use that or we see that no one uses it. How do you think about framing questions in a way that will actually be successful [crosstalk 00:12:11].Bradford:It's a great question. We have teams of people that focus on that at eBay. So, the feedback we get is that we actually have feedback forms on specific pages of the site. So, I'll give you example, there's this thing called My eBay. It's like your profile hub thing. But because eBay, you could be a buyer or seller, so you have a place where all the things that you've bought live but also all the things that you're selling or sold live.Bradford:It's like the hub of the eBay customer. If you just sent an email with a survey of how do you feel about eBay or like an NPS survey, you're not going to get the detail feedback they'll make that product better. And so, here are some of the things that we get like very specific feedback like purchase history.Bradford:There are people that literally because they're business buyers or let's just say they're resellers. People that are buying thousands of records a year and then reselling them and we don't have the functionality to let them search through their purchase history.Bradford:So, they can't literally search David Bowie and find the things. And this is a number one complaint of our customers and you only would find that out because then we're literally asking very specific, what would you do differently to this exact experience or page?Bradford:I think that's where you get awesome feedback. You can get that through just general feedback collecting too if you're able to actually come through and pick up the patterns and scour through them. Because you're right, you might get one or two people that are…
Full show notes at the publisherIt is rare that a brand has such reach and such impact that people all over the world can not just recognize it, but have memories of using the product for generations. Crayola is one of those rarities. Of course, Crayola was built around the production of crayons, but throughout its more than 115 years in business, Crayola has vastly expanded its product offerings and worked to build a community of consumers who gather around the idea of creativity. But how do you sell that expanded brand and provide opportunities for customers to find and interact with you in new ways?On this episode of Up Next in Commerce, Josh Kroo, the Senior Vice President Brand Marketing and Digital Strategy at Crayola, joined us to discuss some of the strategies he is putting into place to increase brand awareness, expand digitally, and offer experiences for all kinds of audiences. Because whether your company is a century-old or a brand new startup, finding ways to adapt and expand will always be important. Main Takeaways:The YouTube Generation: A recent study reported that 81% of parents with children of children age 11 years and younger use YouTtube to find content for their kids. As more and more children — and parents — find their way onto the platform, brands need to be prepared to invest there if they want to stay relevant, as well in order to achieve relevance. Can I Interest You in Some Apps?: There are a number of ways to use apps, so you have to decide the purpose and KPIs of the app you are building and then deliver the type of experience that will bring the engagement you want. And it’s important to remember that one app doesn’t have to do it all. You can have different apps for different purposes and customers — one to drive discovery and brand awareness, another to drive conversions and sales.Every Kind of Experience Is Available: Physical experiences with brands — whether in store or at an event — have been the bedrock of creating a connection with customers. As the world changes, though, there is more opportunity to connect with customers in a new way – through digital and hybrid experiencesFor an in-depth look at this episode, check out the full transcript below. Quotes have been edited for clarity and length.---Up Next in Commerce is brought to you by Salesforce Commerce Cloud. Respond quickly to changing customer needs with flexible Ecommerce connected to marketing, sales, and service. Deliver intelligent commerce experiences your customers can trust, across every channel. Together, we’re ready for what’s next in commerce. Learn more at salesforce.com/commerce---Transcript:Stephanie:Welcome back to Up Next in Commerce. This your host, Stephanie Postles, co-founder of mission.org. Today on the show we have Josh Kroo, the senior vice president of brand marketing and digital strategy at Crayola. Josh, welcome.Josh:Hi, good to be here.Stephanie:It's really exciting to have you on. I was actually just playing with some crayons with my two-and-a-half-year-old right before this, trying to get [crosstalk] for the interview.Josh:Excellent, that's good. I like that.Stephanie:Yeah, it's top of mind now, yeah. So, I want to hear a little bit about what led you to Crayola?Josh:Sure. So, I grew up kind of in a traditional brand marketing capacity. I started my career at Kraft and Danon, and had spent a lot of time building businesses there, but when the opportunity came calling to come to Crayola, which is one of the most iconic brands in the world, it's one of those brands where people ... you say that you work at Crayola, and everyone sort of has A, a memory, and then B, their face lights up, and they generally ask you a fun question like, "Oh, who names the colors?"Josh:It's just one of those brands that has touched so many people, and pretty much everybody along the way, and so for me to get the opportunity ... I joined Crayola to lead the marketing communications group. It was an opportunity to be a part of that brand, part of the mission, which I think is really wonderful, which is all about celebrating, and nurturing, and helping to spark the creativity in children, and giving parents and teachers the tools to do that, and then the chance to bring some energy to the brand, and I don't want to say revitalize it, but contemporize it, make it relevant for today's kids and parents, and lead a great team through that process.Stephanie:Yeah, that's great. So, I mean, Crayola's been around since, I think it's the 1880s, right?Josh:Yeah, we are over 115 years old. So, started with eight little crayons. Edward Binney, our founder, his wife wanted kids to be able to color the world as they saw it, and so we launched with eight crayons. That's actually where Crayola comes from, cray meaning chalk, and ola is sort of like oily chalk with the colors. So, a lot has happened over the last 115 plus years in terms of the brand, but what's amazing is that the mission and the purpose of the company has still always really remained the same.Stephanie:Yeah, that's really cool. So, what does your day to day look like at Crayola, because I'm sure you've seen a lot of shifts happening over the many years that you've been there, or throughout the brand as a whole I'm sure you've heard of shifts, what are you doing now that maybe was different than a couple of years ago?Josh:Wow, there's a lot for unpack in that, I think-Stephanie:Yes.Josh:... first of all, my role has certainly evolved, but no, I think you can go ... or I personally can go from a meeting where we're talking about ecommerce marketing strategy, to looking at pieces of creative or creative work that we're building out for holiday, to a meeting where we're looking at what our strategy is going to be going forward from an annual planning perspective. I manage our interactive business right now, so it could be a meeting where we're looking at what are the next updates for the plans for our apps, and how are they performing? So, it really it can touch all different parts of the business, and I think that's part of the joy of working for a brand like this, and in my role. It's everything from all the brand marketing, but now most recently digging deeper into the digital and ecomm side of things, and helping to guide the company in that way. So, you never know what's going to come on any given day, but I think that's what keeps it fun.Stephanie:That's great. So, you were just mentioning apps, and I think that would be fun to kind of dive into Crayola's mobile efforts, because I think when I think of Crayola I, of course, think of the crayons that we have in our living room, but I'd love to hear how you guys think about building out apps, and how do you know what's going to work, or what doesn't? How do you think about what you want to invest in when it comes to that area?Josh:So, that's a great question. I think it's been a really interesting journey for us in the app space. We've actually been making apps for over a decade now-Stephanie:Oh, wow.Josh:... but the way that we've been doing it has really evolved. So, this predates my time even, but we had what we called here physical to digital apps, which was this idea of how do you merge physical creativity and digital creativity, and bringing them together in an app. We were working hard at that, we had the first augmented reality coloring books that were out there, we had augmented reality based animation, we had all these products, and I think ultimately what we figured out was we have to be okay with kids being creative in a digital space.Josh:I think overarching what you recognize is that if you look at kids' free time in a pie, they're spending more and more time with technology, depending on the age of the kid it can be upwards of 30 plus percent of their time with technology, and certainly within that, they're being creative. So, what is the best way for Crayola to play there? And we evolved from this kind of idea that you had to do something physical, or physically creative, which is at the core of what Crayola's been about for well over 100 years, to what does modern creativity look like for a kid? And I think that's really where we set out to build from, from an app perspective.Josh:So, looking at it, and then you start to ask yourself, and we've got a variety of different apps today, we've sort of got a flagship app called Create and Play, which is really the premium Crayola experience, everything that you could want for digital creativity that's sort of targeted to younger kids in that three to five space. And then we've got other apps that are out there that are supporting different brands or IP of products that act as a marketing vehicle. I think for our flagship app, what we really wanted was to create an experience that was if you think about opening a crayon box, what is the magical experience that a kid gets from opening a crayon box? I'm sure your two-and-a-half-year-old can relate to the smell of the crayons-Stephanie:I was going to say, the smell, yes.Josh:... the excitement of the color, so you've got all of that there, and how do you bring that into the app space, and how do you also empower kids to express themselves creatively? And what we wanted to do here was help kids learn through creativity, but without really knowing they were learning, so it's all through play. I think from a parent perspective, so two and a half maybe or maybe not be a little bit young for your kid, but parents want to feel good about what their kids are doing on an app, and so how can we give a wholesome experience as well? So, that was really the approach that we took there, and we built out a variety of different apps, and continue to expand on the content, and it's a really great way to foster digital creativity.Stephanie:Very cool. Do you have any tips or things that you found out along the way when you're trying to make sure that you're staying true to the brand that everyone loves, and like you said, being able to do things in the real world, like actually draw on stuff is an important part of it, while also moving forward in this digital arena?Josh:Yeah, so I think the fun part about being in an app is being okay with the fact that there are fantastical things that you can do to express yourself in the app space. So, for us, it's always about staying true to the essence of the brand, but our brand is really all about creativity. So, you can color with a crayon and make marks on paper, and that's wonderful. How do we exaggerate that in the app space so it's delivering that magical experience for a kid? So, you can color with flames in the app, for example, or you can express yourself in different ways.Josh:So, we have a whole area in the app that's all around pets, and pet play, and pet care, and you can dress them up, color on them, make music with them. It's all creativity in a different way, but I think for us it's really it's all about letting kids express themselves, whether it's physical or digital. I think for us, the other thing that is true about any, whether it's physical or digital creativity is there is no such thing as bad creativity. So, we celebrate everything, whether you made a random circle on a paper, or whether you painted a Picasso, it's all celebrated, it all goes into the gallery, and every kid should be proud of what they create.Stephanie:That's great. How do you stay ahead of what kids are looking for? It seems ... I mean, when I think about my kids I'm like, I have no idea, sometimes they like certain things that I'm very surprised by, or I think they're going to love something, and I buy them this really cool gift, and then it's like a flop. So, how do you guys stay innovating in that area and stay inside the kids' heads of knowing what they're going to enjoy and like?Josh:Well, certainly there's an aspect of just being immersed in the world of kids apps, and playing with other kids apps, and understanding what's out there, but then you're also always looking for what's trending, and making sure that we're staying on top of that from a trends' perspective, and you can sort of pick it up by just the amount of research that we do with kids, and talk to kids in general, you can sort of get a flavor for what they're doing. And then we also do a lot of user testing as well along the way to validate the concepts and the content that we're building out.Stephanie:Mm-hmm (affirmative), very cool. How do you think about like you're building these apps that, I would say, encourage the kids to play around for a long time, are you mostly focused on having someone really engage with these apps, or are you also building apps that are focused on conversions of maybe selling actual products, or is it kind of a little bit of both?Josh:It depends on the app. So, our flagship Create and Play app, that's actually a subscription app, so you can go into that app and you'll be able to play with, call it, a quarter of the app for free, but if you want the full experience we're monetizing it through subscription, and I think if you look at the app space in general in the kid space it's really moving in that direction from premium and freemium, and it has been for a few years since the subscription. The win for us there, certainly I'm happy that we're monetizing it, but we see kids on average playing 25 to 30 minutes a day deeply engaging in your brand, I mean, that's sort of hard experience to replicate.Josh:And then there are other apps where it is just free, so I think the most recent one we launched was probably nine or 10 months ago, it was called Scribble Scrubbie Pets, which is an IP that we have that's actually a toy-based app, and that really is ... it's a totally free experience. Again, we want kids to immerse and connect with the brand, and we'll see them averaging 20 plus minutes a day with it, and there are different things you can do. So, there's, call it, almost 40 different Scrubbie Pets in there, you can unlock them by either buying the product, and that's a shortcut to unlocking pets, or you can just continue to play and engage with the brand and do activities, and unlock the pets that way. So, the conversion will happen more down the line, and it really is about generating that brand awareness, and brand love.Stephanie:Cool. So, when thinking about your ecommerce and your website experience, what are you guys doing on that front right now, and what are you seeing that's working? Well maybe, what step of, or what stage are you guys in with selling online? Whereas I guess I still think of you as I would go to the store maybe to buy some crayons right now.Josh:Yeah, it's really interesting, it's been a total evolution for Crayola. If you go back 10 or 15 years ago, or maybe even shorter, two of our biggest customers were Toys "R" Us, and Kmart, and you know where they are-Stephanie:Yep. Yeah, Kmart.Josh:Exactly [crosstalk 00:11:59]-Stephanie:Forgot about them, yep.Josh:No, so we made a very concerted effort at Crayola probably three or four years ago recognizing that ecommerce and specifically Amazon were going to be a huge factor in how consumers shop, and we really pivoted the business, built out a totally siloed ecommerce team to grow that that was partnered with my team on the marketing side and the content side, and put a huge amount of organizational effort and resources against growing that part of the business. So, I'd say I feel like we're pretty far along from an ecomm perspective, both from just where our sa…
Full show notes at the publisherWhat comes to mind when you think about the relationship with your manufacturers? Chances are you have the same picture in your head as so many other brands. You see a series of events that starts with opening a purchase order, and goes down the line of tasks including paying for your items, getting them shipped and then starting the process all over again. It’s a transactional relationship that has seen very little disruption through the years. But the times are changing, and a company called Italic is leading the charge when it comes to developing a new framework around partnering with manufacturers. Italic is a membership-based brand that gives customers access to products produced by the same manufacturers of the top brands in the world. Jeremy Cai is the CEO of Italic, and he likes to say that Italic is a marketplace-inspired supply chain. On this episode of Up Next in Commerce, he explains exactly what that means. Jeremy describes new and different kinds of partnerships with manufacturers that, for the first time, makes them true partners in business. Plus, he explains why that partnership is leading to a better end product and happier customers. He also dives into new ways you can leverage manufacturers that many aren’t aware of, and details the metrics and strategies that subscription companies need to be focused on to rise above the competition.Main Takeaways:Getting in on the Action – Traditionally, manufacturers have not had to put much at stake financially when working with brands. But, with a company like Italic, the manufacturers take on a financial risk. In doing so, they also become more involved partners which leads to a better end product.It’s Deeper Than You Think – There is now a partnership opportunity between manufacturers and brands when it comes to designs and in-house pattern design capabilities t In the past, much of the design and pattern work was done solely by brands. But today, many manufacturers have high-quality design and R&D talent inhouse and create showrooms of products that brands can tap into.Meaty Membership Metrics – For membership-based companies, there needs to be less value placed on the traditional metrics that have so often defined ecommerce companies. Tune in to hear which ones are crucial to pay attention to.For an in-depth look at this episode, check out the full transcript below. Quotes have been edited for clarity and length.---Up Next in Commerce is brought to you by Salesforce Commerce Cloud. Respond quickly to changing customer needs with flexible Ecommerce connected to marketing, sales, and service. Deliver intelligent commerce experiences your customers can trust, across every channel. Together, we’re ready for what’s next in commerce. Learn more at salesforce.com/commerce---Transcript:Stephanie:Welcome to another episode of Up Next in Commerce. This is your host, Stephanie Postles, cofounder of mission.org. Today, we have Jeremy Cai on the show, the CEO of Italic. Jeremy, welcome.Jeremy:Thanks so much for having me.Stephanie:I'm excited to have you on the show. I was mentioning earlier, but I've read quite a bit about you guys. I see you in a lot of the eCommerce newsletters that I follow, so it seems like you're growing in popularity at least when it comes to people writing about you right now.Jeremy:I don't know if that's a good success metric, but we're doing I think a good job on media coverage right now.Stephanie:There you go. I think it's a pretty good one. Tell me a bit about Italic for anyone who hasn't heard about it, doesn't know what it is. I would love you to give a brief overview of what it is.Jeremy:Sure, so Italic is an annual membership that costs $100 a year and our members get access to hundreds of products that we design and develop inhouse, ranging from cookware to bedding to towels to apparel and accessory, footwear and many more coming soon, but the difference is we sell them at prices where Italic it doesn't actually make a profit. This actually results in pricing that is dramatically lower than both direct-to-consumer companies as well as traditional incumbents, oftentimes in the 40% to 50% to sometimes 70% to 80% range. We've been around for about two and a half years, but we've only launched the membership about a month and a half ago, and so far, it's been a pretty good start.Stephanie:Very cool. You have membership and you're not making money on the actual products. Tell me more about what would be an example of something you're selling and how are you encouraging people to sign up for a membership to get access to everything that you just mentioned.Jeremy:Sure. One example of the product that we sell, and this applies to all their products, is let's just take our slumber cotton sheet set, for example. The sheet set sells anywhere from I think ... Actually, I might have to actually look at this for cross reference, but I think it's like anywhere from $80 to $120. Those are prices where we're not actually making money. Those prices do include things like freight and warehousing and fulfillment fees, but generally it still comes out substantially lower than the prices that our competitors would set. Then in terms of how we're actually attracting new members, really I'd say it's from two general ways.Jeremy:One is I think the goal is for our members to be saving money on their first purchase. This oftentimes comes through the lens of product marketing. If we would do a great job of really letting the products tell their own story of saying how great quality they are, the same manufacturers of so and so brands are, which certifications these manufacturers have, what specific details of the products really sell the product itself, I think that actually helps sell the membership for us because we don't really have to say like, "Hey, with this membership, you're saving all this money." instead it's like, "Hey, this product is obviously really great and it's really high quality."Jeremy:Then once you look at the price point, the perceived value is like, "Oh, I'm going to save pretty much the entirety of my membership fee in one or two purchases," which we see in the vast majority of cases. Typically, 93% of our new members will break even on their $100 fee in one order, but on the flipside on the membership, this is different than the standard transactional model in which you have to be a paying member in order to purchase anything. I think we do have do a fair amount of education in terms of showing to our members or showing to our audience who might become members, "Hey, this product, you can only buy it if it's a membership. This is how the platform works. This is why it's different than a brand. I think we have to put out a lot of content in terms of actually sharing like, this is how we were able to put together this offering that doesn't really exist elsewhere."Jeremy:We do a little bit of both, but I would say right now we lean a little bit heavier towards product marketing since we have a lot of new exciting launches coming up.Stephanie:That's awesome. Talk to me through a bit about what was your thinking behind creating a membership program for because I think I saw you started out with it and then maybe you stopped doing it and they started again and feel free to correct me if that's not right, but tell me about what was that journey like.Jeremy:It was not easy. I would say the way I like to view it is the first two and a half years of our business, we've really been focused on the supply side of operations, building out that product assortment, and exactly like you said, we did launch in 2018 with a membership product. Within basically a month or two, we decided very, very early on like, "Hey, we had three manufacturers in three categories at the time, handbags, scarves and eyewear. As you can imagine, those are not necessarily high frequency purchases to substantiate a membership value proposition.Jeremy:We actually never actually charged anyone for the membership. It was always a test to see how the response would be. Overwhelmingly, we saw that the product response was great, the quality was great, but I think the offering was too limited at the time. Instead for the following two years, we ran a transactional model in which we made money through marking up our products, albeit not as much as a brand would. Our products might be marked up two to two and a half times, whereas our competitors will mark them up five, 10, 15 times sometimes. That's how we made our money.Jeremy:Really the incentive was, "How do we build a product assortment that's large enough, so I guess wide enough and deep enough to attract the member to actually convert?" Around, I would say, Q4 of 2019, to be totally honest, I think we saw two things happen. One was the structural, I guess, implosion of the venture direct-to-consumer model in which a lot of brands, I think, who had been raising money and then going out with this one playbook that hadn't been set maybe back in 2013 to 2017, I think suddenly realized, like, "Hey, we are not technology companies. We are a brand and we make money through transactional volume." Basically, I'm just trying to say we saw the writing on the wall if we were to continue that model.Jeremy:Then in Q1, we also took a hard look in terms of our user behavior. We saw frequencies of purchases, our lifetime values get to a place, our product reviews, our NPS scores all get to a place where we felt confident in our product assortment to date. When we first started, we might have had maybe 30 or so skews. Now, we have over 1,000 skews. It finally got to a point where the product assortment felt mature enough to launch a membership product. We tested that, and then basically right when we started testing it, that's also when COVID hit.Jeremy:We figured there's either two options. One was we just pull that and just focus on building the transactional model again and getting it into a sustainable place which is still the goal, right? We don't want to build an unsustainable growth model or alternatively stress test the model in the peak of, I think, consumer uncertainty in which we would see like, "Hey, does this value proposition of saving money resonate in the time when it would matter the most. Thankfully, it did and I think from April to May, June and July, we monitored our cohorts and user behavior really closely and wanted to make sure that the membership was something that we had conviction in.Jeremy:Eventually, we got to a point where we realized like, "Hey, this is ..." I guess the way I like to put it is our customers always liked us, but our members absolutely loved us. We decided to go all in and then finally released the public version of the product in July.Stephanie:That's great. That's good seeing quick pivots and seeing like, "What is the market telling us? Where are things headed?" and trying out different models. How are you going about building out maybe a financial model because I'm thinking if you have only a membership subscription-type model, there's probably only a limited market? You can't scale indefinitely. There's only a certain people who will be on that versus making profits off of each product. I'm sure those are two very different models. How to do think about it financially when trying the two different ones out?Jeremy:That's a very valid point and I think we knew going into it that there is a lot of subscriptions out there and a lot of subscription fatigue and at least the states in the US in which everyone has a Prime membership or a Spotify subscription or Netflix and to add one more to that is always asking a lot. I think we knew going into it like, "Hey, this is all or nothing in which you can't launch a half-baked type of membership product." I think to the financial level, I think two things are worth noting before we decided to do this. One was the fact that we are capping our upside to $100 very literally for pretty much the extent of the year and the incentive in that case is, one, can we launch products and provide a service that our members love so much that they'll stay for years to come in which our LTV or lifetime value in that case would become quite substantial and hopefully our churn would be low and retention would be high and so on and so forth?Jeremy:I guess that's one area is we really were aware of the fact that if we cap our financial upside that the immediate short term would be that we're limited to $100 for the year, but the amount of utility and value that we could provide to a member would be so great that they hopefully stay for years to come in which our LTV would grow to a point where we would actually outperform our transactional type of behavior. Then the second point, exactly like you said, memberships aren't for everyone. We're very well aware of that, but I think something that has been exciting for us to see is if we're able to build this type of product, I think it is genuinely massively different than anything close to us.Jeremy:Whereas most of these direct-to-consumer brands, they're basically providing products and a story to a customer which is an incredibly, incredibly competitive market. We have a product where it's like, "Hey, for $100, you get access to all the products we sell at a price where we don't make money. I think that's a genuinely differentiated product in which we know it's not for everyone, but we think value-driven commerce, it's not sexy per se, but it is something that is very attractive to a very large segment of the American consumer base. I think we were willing to take that bet.Jeremy:Of course, we wanted to monitor really closely so that we weren't losing money on transactions at least and at least that we were breakeven and we were able to accomplish that within the months of the pilot, so we felt confident in rolling it out more broadly, but I think to answer that more directly, if we didn't see user traction, if we didn't see members using the platform or membership or if we saw our NPS or product reviews drop or if we saw an increase complaint rate, increase return rate, etcetera, then I think we would have actually probably returned back to the transactional model, but it was something that we felt confident enough in just off of a couple months of data that we've decided to go all in.Stephanie:That's awesome. I think that's so great, because it really shows a longer term vision and commitment to be around where I think actually a lot of B2C companies right now are missing that. I don't know if it's because of the VC stage where it was like grow really quickly, but it seems like a lot of people are more ready to just quickly make as much money as possible, maybe sell the company off, see what happens afterwards, but I really like the idea of actually telling your customers, "Hey, we're only going to make $100 profit for the year off you that essentially cover some of our costs." I could see that really helping a customer want to also support you guys along with just wanting it because maybe it's a very good service and some platform they use.Jeremy:Thanks. That was pretty much the bat. The reality of the business right now is if you're a direct-to-consumer brand and you're starting out nowadays, you might raise one round of financing, let's say anywhere from $500,000 all the way to like $3.5 million or something of the sort if you want to pursue that route. That's pretty much all you're going to be able to raise or at leas…
Full show notes at the publisherBrand loyalty is something that every company wants but few actually attain. To build a loyal customer base, you need to provide the best experiences possible, offer unique products or services, and deliver on quality and in a timely fashion. It’s a tough ask, and for those in the grocery industry, it’s even more difficult since differentiation between product selection is not as easy as it might be in other verticals. But when it comes to customer loyalty, there are ways to separate yourself from the pack. And that’s where Rachel Stephens comes in. As the Vice President of Marketing, Digital and Loyalty for Stop & Shop, a major grocery chain with more than 400 stores, she thinks about this every day. Thanks to a new online platform and through a loyalty program that customers actually want to engage in, Rachel explains that Stop & Shop is finally gaining access to some of the dark data it couldn’t access in the past. On this episode of Up Next in Commerce, Rachel explains why that kind of data is a true game-changer for any brand. Plus she reveals some of the consumer psychology that she looks at when building loyalty programs, and she peers into the future at how the use of A.I., machine learning and natural language processing will further advance not just Stop & Shop’s ecommerce experience, but the entire ecommerce industry. Main Takeaways: Is it Actually on the Grocery List?: When building or improving loyalty programs, having an understanding of data is critical. Everyone has to take on the role of data scientist and look at the data analytically, especially as it relates to consumer behavior. Just because a customer says they want something or they intend to make a purchase, does not mean the data will always show that. Word for advice: trust the data and build a program around what is actually happening instead of what customers are saying. Accessing Dark Data: For too long, grocery stores have asked only for customer phone numbers in order for them to have access to loyalty cards. But if that phone number isn’t linked to a real name or address, and is changing hands faster than an email address would, there is a huge amount of data left in the dark, which makes it impossible to build a meaningful database of customer information. To access that critical data, companies need to build programs that are truly enticing that customers want to share their data with that helps not only the brand but also the consumer. The Psychology of a Discount: Tune in to hear what Rachel saw in the data when reviewing their sales and discounts. Hint: higher is not always better. For an in-depth look at this episode, check out the full transcript below. Quotes have been edited for clarity and length. --- Up Next in Commerce is brought to you by Salesforce Commerce Cloud. Respond quickly to changing customer needs with flexible Ecommerce connected to marketing, sales, and service. Deliver intelligent commerce experiences your customers can trust, across every channel. Together, we’re ready for what’s next in commerce. Learn more at salesforce.com/commerce --- Transcript: Stephanie: Welcome back to Up Next in Commerce, I'm your host Stephanie Postals, co-founder of Mission.org. Today we have Rachel Stevens on the show, vice president of marketing, digital and loyalty at Stop & Shop. Rachel, welcome. Rachel: Thank you very much for having me. Stephanie: Yeah, I'm really excited to have you on. I saw a little bit of your background before hopping on here and I got very excited when I saw that you have worked at the TJX companies, which I was hoping we could start there with your background. Rachel: Are you a brand fan? Stephanie: Oh, yes. I mean, I love TJ Maxx and when I saw that I'm like, "Ooh, this is my interview. This is the one." Rachel: Yeah, I was actually the assistant vice president of CRM Loyalty [inaudible] within TJX. And that really matched the TJX rewards program ... was a program that fell under my group and my responsibilities included the day to days and ensuring that our customers really wanted to participate in our program, our loyalty program so that we had clean data at the end of the day. And we were able to provide additional value in savings on top of what customers were already saving with the strong value that TJX stores provide. Stephanie: Very cool. How did you first get interested in the world of loyalty marketing, what lead you there? Rachel: I started actually in loyalty marketing at Pet Smart in their corporate headquarters in Phoenix and I think the thing that really appealed to me was marriage of data and customer communications, so understanding what customers say and what customers actually do is vital, I think, to the success of an organization because customers can say, "Yes, I have intent to purchase X,Y,Z." But when you look at the actual data, the data doesn't lie. Rachel: So, loyalty programs give you a vital tool for success within your organization to take a look at consumer data and then apply your marketing tactics really that are from acquisition, retention or reactivation perspective based on what that consumer is doing in a particular moment. So it's really, to me, such a great marriage of a lot of different areas within marketing and it just was something that I developed an immediate passion for. When I started there on the Pet Perks Program and then went to TJX to work on the loyalty program for TJ Maxx, Marshalls, Home Goods, [inaudible] Trading Post, and HomeSense, I feel like when I was there honed in on my skills within the loyalty space, so the position at Stop & Shop to really develop the role and develop what the new program was going to look like was incredibly appealing just because of my passion for this space and for retail. Stephanie: That's so much good experience to be able to bring to Stop & Shop. How have you seen consumer behaviors or loyalty programs having to change since you started? Rachel: Since I started in loyalty or since I started at Stop & Shop? Stephanie: I'd say in loyalty program, in loyalty overall. Since you started back in the pets days. Rachel: Yeah, I think there was a transactional nature to loyalty programs in the past. I think it was you give and get and that was usually based in points programs whereas today obviously I think more experiential programs have come about and providing more omni-channel experience, which wasn't really the case back when I first started within the loyalty space. I'd say that there's a number of people that really do a great job at this. I think Sephora's loyalty program is top notch. They do an excellent job at marrying the in-store and the online experience, really making it truly omni-channel tied in with their loyalty program. Rachel: I think that a lot of retailers have caught up and are doing a good job and I still think there's a lot of room to grow. And I think grocery retail was stuck in the loyalty stage of two tier pricing and I think we have a to model grocery loyalty programs more after what a lot of other retailers are doing in the loyalty space and even hotels. Airlines, I think that soft benefits and providing experiential benefits are really critical to the success of a program. Stephanie: Yep, yeah completely agree. Now that we're touching on grocery a bit I would love for you to explain what Stop & Shop is for anyone who doesn't know. Rachel: Sure, Stop & Shop is actually a grocery retailer with over 100 years in the industry. It started out as a very small grocery in the east coast and now we have over 400 stores and of course our online experience at Stop&Shop.com and the Stop & Shop app. Stephanie: That's great. And Stop & Shop, you guys just started moving into e-commerce, right? I think I saw that you launched a new platform just in a couple months ago, am I right? Rachel: We did actually, on July 28th in fact. We launched ... we had Peapod with a partner company. Peapod actually was owned by Ahold Delhaize, which is the parent company that owns Stop & Shop and we have integrated Peapod into Stop & Shop now. So, within Stop & Shop's footprint to order grocery delivery or to get pickup you actually now go to the Stop & Shop website or the Stop & Shop app versus Peapod. That integration occurred again at the end of July, and it's been going incredibly well so far. Stephanie: What was that transition ... what did that look like behind the scenes of not only integrating a current path that people are using but also I'm sure adding on additional functionalities that maybe weren't already there. What was the process behind the scenes or any maybe hiccups that you guys experienced when you were going through all this because it sounds like a big project. Rachel: Yes, yes. In fact, huge project. And all of our sister brands went through the same scope of work at the same time. We work with an internal agency who actually is responsible for all of that development work. And the agency actually had to develop the platform for all the brands. There was Giant Martin's out of Carlisle, Pennsylvania and Giant Foods in Maryland, also went through the same transition. Rachel: And there was obviously ... it requires a lot of work to marry the database, really marry those platforms. There was a Stop & Shop website, a Peapod website and H Brands app, so marrying those together was a huge, enormous undertaking that has taken approximately two years. And when I first started two and a half years ago actually that was really when we had worked on all the business requirements for this project. And it just takes a significant amount of time to match up all the data on our customers and combine those platforms and ensure that everything is running smoothly because if you think about the number of transactions that the Peapod site had going through it before and the number of customers that were going to the Stop & Shop site, you can imagine that there's just a tremendous amount of customers that we wanted to ensure were not left behind in this transition. Rachel: So, there's definitely a lot of work that went into this project and in terms of hiccups, of course there was a lot of those. But I think you try and block out all of the things that went wrong during the launch and you just only remember the good, right? Stephanie: Yep, that's great. And I'm also very familiar with Giant. I'm from Maryland. I'm sure everyone else is like, "What's that?" I know very well what that is. Rachel: Oh, great. That's great. Stephanie: Yeah, so when you guys are thinking about launching this new e-commerce platform, what kind of opportunities were you excited that it would open up? I'm sure you get access to new kind of data and you can have new offerings and you can send that data maybe to your other partners and maybe they can give you deals. What things were you most excited about that you didn't have access to before? Rachel: I think that what I'm most excited about is omni-channel data access. We did not, again, have that before because it was Peapod who really had all of the data for delivery and pickup and Stop & Shop who had all the brick & mortar data. The combination and looking at a consumer from an omni-channel, to me, is what's most exciting. Rachel: If I'm going to do a marketing campaign using digital tactics or any sort of in-store tactics I really need to know what you do as a customer. You could channel switch, you could go from pick-up to in-store to delivery all within a very short period of time. And so, I think the efficiency in marketing, by having that data to me is really what's most exciting. And being able to actually accurately talk to our customers is something that really interests me because how many time have you received communications from a company where you're like, "Wait, I was just in there. I just bought X, Y, Z and now they're sending me an offer for something," or the communication just seems out of left field. Rachel: And I think of years past when Starbucks didn't have a fully integrated data solution. If I was a coffee drinker and I always drank coffee once in a while I'd get tea offers and it just didn't make any sense to me. I think it was just bad use of data. Stephanie: Yeah, I still get that right now. I'll get things marketed to me around pregnancy. I'm like, "I am not pregnant and haven't been for a while." Rachel: You're not pregnant. Stephanie: In a while. Come on, about six months ago, stop that. Rachel: Right, exactly. Stephanie: That's smart. So, what are you excited for omni-channel in general outside of Stop & Shop. What do you think that landscape's going to look like in the next couple of years? Rachel: I think that COVID has certainly advanced a lot of, specifically in retail, advanced a lot of retailers. I think their technology and their offerings, I think omni-channel, to me, has to be that seamless experience in-store, online. And it has to be being able to look at you from a customer lens and understanding that you may channel switch and your experience or the offers that you're given or you're customer service shouldn't change. There shouldn't everybody anything remarkably different about whatever channel you're in. Rachel: So, for me I think that the omni-channel landscape is going to continue improving and COVID has definitely advanced that. Stephanie: To dive back into the loyalty program conversation, because I'm very interested in that, we haven't had a ton of people on the show who've talked about that, so I'll probably keep circling around that for a little bit. Rachel: Sure. Stephanie: I want to hear how you think about developing a successful loyalty program now. How do you get people to engage? How do you get them to be excited about it? Rachel: The most important thing is research. You have to understand what customers want first and foremost of course. That's the first step in any real loyalty program whether you're launching a loyalty program or enhancing a loyalty program or just completely transforming a loyalty program. You have to understand what research, what customers want. You have to look at the data and understand what they actually do. Rachel: So, it's the this is what I say I want and then this is what I actually do. And you rally have to be a data scientist and understand what it is that is bubbling to the top. If I know my to customers are coming in and I'm looking at the data that tells me they come in X amount of times per week and they shop for key products, then I can understand and I can translate that back into transactional offers. I can say, "Okay, these are the top products that I need to make sure are relevant to that consumer base on a regular basis." Rachel: But it doesn't get at really what drives them and motivates them to be loyal to the brand. So, I think that that research is such a critical step in really understanding how consumers really feel about your brand. You don't want to be the brand that customers just feel like you're on the corner and you're convenient so they have to shop you. You want to be the brand that they want to shop at. Loyalty isn't just about the program, it has to be about the total solution that retailer provides and your feelings about that retailer. Stephanie: It seems like there would be a lot dark data out there, especially for maybe grocery stores because I'm thinking, would my local grocery store even know that I go in and out because I don't interact with them online right now. I sometimes put my pho…
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