Unchained

Latest Episodes:

Bits + Bips: How a Surprise Clarity Act Vote Could Move Crypto Prices Jul 18, 2026

Show notes

If you haven't yet, be sure to subscribe to Bits + Bips on its dedicated channels. Follow us on Apple Podcasts, YouTube, Spotify, X, Unchained and wherever you get your podcasts.

🔥 Apple Podcasts - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/bits-bips/id1827931786

🔥 YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuKiSkbYrUOOEEiYQEVPniQ

🔥 Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/show/6aSBMrOyi33aVDCULJ9mjN?si=NTLk-jl5QGeytA6-2kxMVQ&nd=1&dlsi=42f0b13dd53c4ba0

🔥X - https://x.com/bitsandbips

🔥 Unchained - https://unchainedcrypto.com/bitsandbips/

A White House meeting on Clarity Act ethics is happening in real time, Polymarket's odds on passage have slid from 75% in May to under 40%, and GSR's Andy Baehr explains why he still thinks a vote would catch the market off guard.

Host:

Steven Ehrlich, Host of Bits + Bips: The Interview and Head of Research at Sharplink

Guest:

Andy Baehr - Managing Director of Asset Management at GSR

This clip is from a longer conversation on whether crypto's best week in months signals a real rally or another relief bounce. Full episode here: https://youtu.be/CQGwPj9bz3w

We go live every Thursday - subscribe to catch it live.

Sponsor:

Cape: Your biggest crypto vulnerability isn't your wallet, it's your phone number. Cape is America's privacy-first mobile carrier that rotates your SIM identity daily and blocks SIM swaps before they happen. Get 33% off your first six months at https://cape.co/unchained (use code: UNCHAINED).

Chapters:

🏛️ 00:00 Right now: a White House meeting on Clarity Act ethics, and why the stakes just got higher

🗳️ 00:24 The key math question: 60 votes means winning over seven Democrats

🚀 01:28 The August 7 deadline that could send the market into overdrive

🎙️ 02:38 Baehr's warning: the longer this drags on, the less likely it gets done

📉 03:22 Clarity Act odds have cratered from 75% to under 40% since May, what changed

💥 04:24 The market isn't pricing in passage, and Baehr thinks that's a mistake

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Why Cap Cuts Its Stabledrop Rewards From $11M to $4M: Uneasy Money Jul 17, 2026

Show notes

Cap's founders on shrinking their Stabledrop from $11M to $4M — plus a $23M hack traced toward North Korea, a BarnBridge governance exploit, and Kain's case to force weak L2s to become their own L1s.

========================================================

Thank you to our sponsors!

⁠⁠⁠Cape⁠⁠: Your biggest crypto vulnerability isn't your wallet, it's your phone number. Cape is America's privacy-first mobile carrier that rotates your SIM identity daily and blocks SIM swaps before they happen. Get 33% off your first six months at ⁠https://cape.co/unchained⁠ (use code: UNCHAINED).

========================================================

Cap committed to a roughly 11 million dollar Stabledrop in February, promising early users stablecoins instead of tokens. A delayed token sale raised less than hoped, and the reward shrank to about 4 million, forcing a fast rewrite of who got paid.

Benjamin Sarquis Peillard, Founder and CEO of Cap, and Weso of Cap join Kain Warwick and Taylor Monahan to walk through a restructuring that made yield-token holders whole, left farmers without a windfall, and argue points programs are an uncapped marketing expense many projects cannot afford.

The conversation widens into EthSystems, a new Ethereum Foundation spinout backed by Joe Lubin, SharpLink and BitMine, Jesse Pollak handing Base product leadership to Cobie, Robinhood Chain's Morpho integration, and whether Ethereum mainnet undercharges L2s.

They revisit BarnBridge's SEC-era DAO structure, a dormant governance exploit, a MetaMask and Revoke.cash delegation tool, and a 23 million dollar Ostium hack Taylor traced toward North Korea.

Kain closes with a Three Mile Island analogy: complex systems fail not from one mistake, but from small shortcuts compounding at once.

Hosts:

⁠⁠⁠Kain Warwick⁠⁠⁠ - Host of Uneasy Money and Founder of Infinex and Synthetix
⁠⁠⁠Taylor Monahan⁠⁠⁠ - Co-host of Uneasy Money and Security Expert

Guests:

Benjamin Sarquis Peillard - Founder and CEO of Cap
Weso - Co-Founder of Cap

Timestamps

🪂 01:30 Benjamin and Weso explain how Cap's Stabledrop plan fell apart post-TGE

💸 08:05 Weso on why uncapped points programs turn into runaway marketing spend

🐦 21:31 Kain and Taylor on crypto Twitter's algorithm flip after a year of exile

📱 24:17 Cape: Get 33% off your first six months of privacy-first mobile service at https://cape.co/unchained

🏛️ 25:09 Why EthSystems, the newest EF spinout, splits Kain on bullish or bearish

🤝 30:20 Taylor on Jesse handing Base app duties to Cobie and what it signals

🎰 36:28 Robinhood Chain's memecoin surge, Morpho ties, and the Cashcat backstory

⚖️ 41:17 Is Ethereum undercharging L2s? Kain makes the case for pushing costs to L1

🔓 55:51 BarnBridge's SEC-era DAO, this week's governance exploit, and the Revoke.cash fix that stops it

☢️ 01:11:31 The Ostium hack: North Korea-linked actor, stolen keys, oracle compromise

💥 01:26:24 Closing rapid-fire: Euler's recovery and an old Vyper compiler bug revisited

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Why Robinhood Chain Saw Memecoins Take Off Before Real World Assets Jul 17, 2026

Show notes

Two weeks after launch, 85% of Robinhood Chain's trading is memecoins and just 1% is RWAs. Johann Kerbrat says that doesn’t change the strategy.

========================================================

Thank you to our sponsor!

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========================================================

Robinhood CEO Vlad Tenev told CNBC on July 2 that real-world assets, not memecoins, were the future of crypto on Robinhood Chain. Two weeks after launch, the numbers disagree: roughly 85% of daily trading on the chain is memecoins, while tokenized RWAs sit at about 1%.

Johann Kerbrat, Vice President and General Manager of Robinhood Crypto, joins Laura Shin to argue the split is not a problem. He makes the case that building the chain permissionless was deliberate, and that memecoin trading through CashCat and PumpFun brings the liquidity RWAs will eventually need.

Kerbrat also defends building the chain's lending and margin system on USDG over USDC or Tether, walks through the separate, unshared liquidity instance behind Robinhood's new perps product with Lighter, and addresses Robinhood's 63% quarterly drop in crypto transaction revenue. His answer: Robinhood Chain was never meant to smooth out that swing, and the real test is whether tokenization can outrun regulation.

Host:

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Laura Shin⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, Host / Unchained

Guests:

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Johann Kerbrat - Vice President and General Manager of Robinhood Crypto

Timestamps

🐸 01:06 Why memecoins are 85% of Robinhood Chain's DEX volume, not RWAs

🚀 05:35 Why PumpFun listing Robinhood Chain tokens was the result of their strategy

🔐 09:33 Where Robinhood's responsibility ends and the permissionless chain begins

📣 11:12 Cape: Use code UNCHAINED for 33% off your first six months at https://cape.co/unchained

⚡ 16:17 Why Robinhood built a separate Lighter instance for its perps

💵 20:24 Why USDG, not USDC or Tether, backs Robinhood Chain's lending and margin

📉 23:23 Does the chain mitigate the 63% swing crypto can have on Robinhood's earnings?

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Crypto Has Seen Drama Over ENS, BonkDAO and VVV. What Does DeFi's Future Look Like? Jul 15, 2026

Show notes

Nick Almond and Proph3t on ENS's treasury fight, the BonkDAO heist, and why Proph3t would not touch Venice's VVV token.

========================================================

Thank you to our sponsor!

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Cape⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠: Your biggest crypto vulnerability isn't your wallet, it's your phone number. Cape is America's privacy-first mobile carrier that rotates your SIM identity daily and blocks SIM swaps before they happen. Get 33% off your first six months at cape.co/unchained (use code: UNCHAINED).

========================================================

Nick Johnson, the founder of ENS Labs, used his own tokens to kill a vote renewing ENS DAO's Security Council, potentially clearing the way for a foundation to take over a treasury worth more than $100 million.

Nick Almond, head of governance at the Jito Foundation, and Proph3t, cofounder of MetaDAO, join Laura Shin to untangle what that move reveals about who should control a DAO's money, and whether voting was ever the right way to decide it.

They trace ENS cofounder Jeff Lau's warning that the treasury became a honeypot with zero accountability, and the collapsing voter turnout that let a 3% token stake decide the DAO's fate. Proph3t makes the case for MetaDAO's decision markets over voting entirely, while Nick argues curated delegates solve the same capture problem without giving up the vote. They also cover the $20 million BonkDAO heist, pulled off with one proposal and seven votes, and the backlash over Dragonfly's investment in Venice's VVV token.

Both guests agree DAOs are near a bottom. What comes next depends on whether anyone tries something new.

Host:

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Laura Shin⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, Host / Unchained

Guests:

Timestamps

🏛️ 01:06 Laura frames the DAO reckoning: disbandments, low turnout, and the Venice fight

📉 08:26 How ENS DAO's collapsing voter turnout let a 3% stake decide its fate

⚖️ 12:55 Proph3t on why voting is a cost, and how a 51% attack captures a DAO

🏦 19:11 Nick maps DAOs' next phase: substructures picked for expertise, not popularity

🍯 24:09 Why Jeff Lau called ENS's treasury plan a honeypot with zero accountability

📣 28:50 Cape: Get 33% off six months of privacy first mobile service at https://cape.co/unchained

🏗️ 29:49 Why founders like Nick Johnson get vilified for wanting DAOs to run efficiently

🗳️ 36:35 Why Nick Johnson's silent vote against ENS's Security Council reads as an attack

💰 41:34 How BonkDAO lost $20 million to one proposal backed by just seven votes

🧩 46:22 Why Proph3t would not buy Venice's VVV token despite defending its disclosures

🔮 56:45 Proph3t on MetaDAO's origin story: pro oversight, not pro governance

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DEX in the City: Why the Supreme Court's FTC Ruling Could Rewire Crypto Regulation Jul 15, 2026

Show notes

The Supreme Court just made it easier to fire SEC and CFTC commissioners. Katherine, Jessi, and Vy on why that could reset who controls crypto policy. Plus, the UK's new rulebook.

========================================================

Thank you to our sponsor!

⁠⁠Cape⁠⁠: Your biggest crypto vulnerability isn't your wallet, it's your phone number. Cape is America's privacy-first mobile carrier that rotates your SIM identity daily and blocks SIM swaps before they happen. Get 33% off your first six months at https://cape.co/unchained (use code: UNCHAINED).

========================================================

The Supreme Court just tore up a 90-year-old precedent that kept independent-agency commissioners safe from a president's whims, and almost no one in crypto is talking about what it means for the SEC and the CFTC.

Katherine Kirkpatrick Bos, Jessi Brooks, and Vy Le trace how the ruling in Trump v. Slaughter changes who actually controls financial regulation. Then they cross the Atlantic to the UK's sweeping new crypto rulebook and the European Commission's move to expand MiCA just as its first version fully takes effect.

They also dig into a Cambridge report showing fighters from one of the world's most brutal terror groups using chatbots to troubleshoot weapons and plan attacks, and ask why there's no Section 230 for crypto or AI, only a growing pile of civil lawsuits testing where liability lands.

Jessi Brooks argues crypto's decade of learning to police neutral technology might be the only playbook AI has left to borrow.

Host:

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Katherine Kirkpatrick Bos⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, General Counsel. Previously held senior legal roles across DeFi and centralized exchanges.
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jessi Brooks⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, General Counsel at Ribbit Capital⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Vy Le⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ - Co-host of DEX in the City and General Counsel of Veda

Timestamps

💙 00:28 Cape: Get 33% off your first six months of privacy-first mobile service at⁠ https://cape.co/unchained⁠

🇬🇧 01:05 Why the UK just published a crypto rulebook few even noticed

🇪🇺 13:15 Why Brussels wants to expand MiCA to cover tokenized assets and stablecoins

⚖️ 24:57 How the Supreme Court handed presidents new power over the SEC and CFTC

🏛️ 33:47 The legal reasoning behind the ruling, and why the Fed board was spared

🤖 39:37 The AI segment: a Cambridge report on Boko Haram's chatbot fueled weapons unit

⚖️ 47:58 Why crypto and AI both lack a Section 230, and who ends up getting sued

🦎 52:20 The good news: how TRM traced $15 million in crypto tied to wildlife trafficking

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Bits + Bips: Sam Lyman Puts 70% Odds on Clarity Passing Before Recess Jul 15, 2026

Show notes

Austin Campbell draws a parallel between the AI data center backlash and the decades-long collapse of US nuclear power, then Sam Lyman of the Bitcoin Policy Institute puts real odds on whether the Clarity Act passes the Senate before August recess.

Hosts:

Austin Campbell, Host of Bits + Bips, Founder of Zero Knowledge Group, and Adjunct Professor at NYU Stern
Ram Ahluwalia, Co-host of Bits + Bips and CEO of Lumida
Chris Perkins, Co-host of Bits + Bips and Head of Franklin Crypto

Guest:

Sam Lyman - Head of Research at the Bitcoin Policy Institute

This clip is from a longer conversation on foreign funded opposition to AI data centers and the odds of the Clarity Act passing. Full episode here: https://youtu.be/-xbSniveaQU

We go live every Monday - subscribe to catch it live.

Sponsor

Cape: Your biggest crypto vulnerability isn't your wallet, it's your phone number. Cape is America's privacy-first mobile carrier that rotates your SIM identity daily and blocks SIM swaps before they happen. Get 33% off your first six months at https://cape.co/unchained (use code: UNCHAINED).

Chapters:

🏗️ 00:00 Austin compares the AI backlash to nuclear power's collapse, citing Indian Point

🧭 01:21 Sam calls nuclear the ideal analogy: a problem we solved, then banned

🏠 02:10 Why Sam says AI's real opposition comes from inside the house

👷 02:37 The blue-collar AI boom: construction jobs, electricians, and data centers

🗳️ 04:07 Ram says political leadership, not just technology, has to show up

🎯 05:15 Sam puts Clarity's odds at 70% before August recess

⏳ 06:55 Why the August recess deadline is the real driver of momentum

📉 07:38 Sam's odds drop to 35 to 40% if Congress doesn't act in the next few weeks

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Bits + Bips: Why CLOs Are Suddenly DeFi's Hottest Yield Play Jul 10, 2026

Show notes

Niklas Kunkel maps where the RWA market is heading next, from Centrifuge and Apollo's CLOs to Galaxy's first tokenized credit product, then turns to a cautionary tale: some SpaceX pre-IPO token buyers never actually owned the shares they thought they had.

Host:

Steven Ehrlich - Host of Bits + Bips and Head of Research at Sharplink

Guest:

Niklas Kunkel - Founder and CEO of Chronicle Labs

This clip is from a longer conversation on crypto oracles, tokenized real-world assets, and Chronicle Labs' work verifying them. Full episode here: https://youtu.be/HW9Cu_E8DnU

We go live every week - subscribe to catch it live.

Cape: Your biggest crypto vulnerability isn't your wallet, it's your phone number. Cape is America's privacy-first mobile carrier that rotates your SIM identity daily and blocks SIM swaps before they happen. Get 33% off your first six months at https://cape.co/unchained (use code: UNCHAINED).

Chapters

🌍 00:00 Where the RWA market goes next, from the man building its plumbing: Niklas Kunkel

💰 00:44 The yield trade heating up: why CLOs like Centrifuge's JAAA and Apollo's Acred are suddenly everywhere

🌌 01:14 Galaxy's first tokenized CLO, and why it's a far bigger deal than it looks

🔍 01:56 Trust no one: how Chronicle checks Galaxy's loan book against its own custodian

🔁 03:04 The looping trick that turns a 7% CLO yield into 14% or 21%, and the risk hiding inside it

🏢 03:27 What's coming next: tokenized REITs and equities

🚀 05:28 The SpaceX pre-IPO token question Niklas keeps getting asked

📉 06:06 The catch nobody mentioned: why SpaceX token buyers never actually owned their shares

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How Lighter Powers Robinhood Perps With USDG as the Quote Asset Jul 10, 2026

Show notes

Robinhood Chain perps now run on Lighter. Vlad Novakovski maps the revenue split, the USDG collateral risk, and the race for a US perps license.

========================================================

Thank you to our sponsor!

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========================================================

Robinhood Chain went live last week, and the perpetual futures powering it are from Lighter, the onchain exchange Robinhood backed before Lighter launched its token.

Vlad Novakovski, founder and CEO of Lighter, joins Laura Shin to unpack a partnership he says has been building since he and the Robinhood founder were high school classmates. He details a 50/50 revenue split, why USDG as collateral creates friction for market makers, and how a pending CFTC license would cover Robinhood's own front-end too.

Novakovski also addresses the crowded field forming around US perps, from Kalshi and Coinbase to Kraken and dYdX, and makes the case that onchain volume keeps gaining share even as crypto native tokens lag real world asset perps. His new seat on the CFTC Innovation Advisory Committee puts him in the room as regulators decide what a DEX has to look like to operate onshore.

Host:

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Laura Shin⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, Host / Unchained

Guests:

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Vlad Novakovski - Founder and CEO of Lighter

Timestamps

🤝 01:28 Why Vlad calls the Robinhood Chain deal "12 years in the making" and how the revenue is split

🤓 03:40 How Robinhood perps differs from Lighter's own app

💸 05:03 What if means if USDG is the quote asset on Robinhood's perps and USDC is the quote asset on Lighter

💬 11:04 Novakovski on Lighter's Telegram Wallet deal vs Hyperliquid's builder codes

📣 12:50 Cape: Get 33% off six months of privacy first mobile service at https://cape.co/unchained

💼 13:44 Fidelity: Explore crypto and DeFi careers at https://crypto.fidelitycareers.com

📉 14:31 Why RWA perps are hitting highs while crypto native perp volume cools

⚠️ 18:00 How Lighter prices liquidation risk when tokenized stocks are collateral

🏛️ 21:14 Novakovski on the regulatory pathway DEXs need to move onshore

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Austin Griffith on the $1 AI Audit and the Case for Founders Over DAOs: Uneasy Money Jul 09, 2026

Show notes

Austin Griffith joins Kain Warwick and Taylor Monahan to unpack BonkDAO's $20M governance heist, and Kain's case for giving founders more control.

========================================================

Thank you to our sponsors!

⁠⁠Cape⁠: Your biggest crypto vulnerability isn't your wallet, it's your phone number. Cape is America's privacy-first mobile carrier that rotates your SIM identity daily and blocks SIM swaps before they happen. Get 33% off your first six months at ⁠https://cape.co/unchained⁠ (use code: UNCHAINED).

========================================================

A single wallet spent $4.4 million buying up Bonk tokens, then used that stake to push through a governance proposal that legally emptied BonkDAO's roughly $20 million treasury a week later, with almost no one watching the vote.

Austin Griffith, Ethereum Foundation developer and creator of Scaffold-ETH and founder of BuidlGuidl, joins Kain Warwick and Taylor Monahan to use the heist as a jumping-off point for Kain's real target: ENS. Kain argues founder Nick Johnson should retake control over building and product from the DAO, and makes the case that founder-led execution beats decentralized governance almost every time.

They also cover Vitalik's Lean Ethereum overhaul and why Austin says it will barely change what he builds, the $1 AI audit he launched as a meme for x402 agent payments, Robinhood's new chain and the pay-to-play deals behind it, and why Kain now argues tokens are the wrong way to raise money.

If a founder with total conviction can outperform a DAO built to stop exactly that, the DAO experiment may be further from finished than anyone wants to admit.

Hosts:

⁠⁠Kain Warwick⁠⁠ - Host of Uneasy Money and Founder of Infinex and Synthetix
⁠⁠Taylor Monahan⁠⁠ - Co-host of Uneasy Money and Security Expert

Guests:

⁠Austin Griffith - Ethereum Foundation developer and creator of Scaffold-ETH and SpeedRun Ethereum, and founder of BuidlGuidl

Timestamps

🛠️ 01:32 Why Austin says Vitalik's Lean Ethereum overhaul barely changes his job

📅 08:21 Taylor on why the EF ships huge roadmaps but too little in the short term

🪓 12:56 Austin on surviving the EF's leaner reorg and the wave of departures

💵 15:43 How Austin turned a serious auditing tool into a viral meme

🤝 18:48 x402 skill files: why agents will soon pay other agents for on-tap skills

💙 25:44 Cape: Get 33% off your first six months of privacy first mobile service at https://cape.co/unchained

🚨 26:41 How one wallet legally voted its way to BonkDAO's $20M treasury

⚖️ 32:57 Why Kain thinks Nick Johnson and ENS should take power back from the DAO

🤖 55:29 Robinhood's new chain and Kain's take on crypto's pay-to-play problem

🪙 58:29 Why Kain says tokens are now the wrong tool to raise money

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The Chopping Block: Tokens vs Equity, Lighter's Robinhood Perps Deal, and Trump's $2.4B Crypto Windfall Jul 09, 2026

Show notes

Vladimir Novakovski of Lighter joins the Chopping Block crew to untangle one of crypto's oldest debates: what happens when tokens and equity coexist. The gang digs into the Venice/VVV controversy, breaks down Lighter's new Perps integration with Robinhood Chain and the fragmentation questions it raises, dissects the wild BonkDAO governance exploit, and reacts to the eye-popping $2.4 billion in crypto income disclosed in Trump's financial filings.

Welcome to The Chopping Block – where crypto insiders Haseeb Qureshi, Tom Schmidt, Tarun Chitra, and Robert Leshner chop it up about the latest in crypto, joined this week by special guest Vladimir Novakovski of Lighter.

The crew dives deep into the resurfaced tokens-versus-equity debate sparked by Dragonfly's investment in Venice and its VVV token, with Haseeb making the case that Venice is fundamentally different from Uniswap Labs style structures. Vlad explains how Lighter has approached the same dilemma through programmatic buybacks and a single C corp structure, and the group debates fiduciary duties, Delaware law, and what a merged DeFi/TradFi future for equity and tokens might look like. From there, they unpack Lighter's big Robinhood Chain announcement, including Lighter's new role as the native Perps engine inside Robinhood Wallet, and whether running a separate instance fragments liquidity. The episode wraps with a breakdown of the BonkDAO governance exploit that let an attacker vote themselves $20 million in tokens, and a reaction to Trump's staggering $2.4 billion in pre-tax crypto income revealed in his latest financial disclosure.

Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Pods, Fountain, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Amazon Music, or on your favorite podcast platform.

Show highlights

🔹 Haseeb breaks down why Venice's VVV token is not equity and not a Uniswap style governance token in disguise

🔹 Vlad explains how Lighter's programmatic buybacks and single C corp structure align token holders and equity holders

🔹 The gang debates Delaware fiduciary law, shareholder primacy, and what happens when buyback capital runs dry

🔹 Vlad lays out the vision of tokenized equity merging with crypto tokens into a single on-chain asset

🔹 Lighter's Robinhood Chain deal goes live with Lighter powering native Perps trading inside Robinhood Wallet

🔹 Vlad addresses concerns about liquidity fragmentation across separate Lighter instances

🔹 BonkDAO gets exploited as an attacker buys governance tokens and votes themselves $20 million

🔹 Robert compares the Bonk exploit to the infamous Beanstalk and Compound Humpty governance attacks

🔹 Trump's financial disclosure reveals $2.4 billion in pre-tax crypto income, sparking a debate on crypto's political future

Hosts

⭐️Haseeb Qureshi, Managing Partner at Dragonfly

⭐️Tom Schmidt, General Partner at Dragonfly

⭐️Robert Leshner, Founder & CEO of Superstate

Guest

⭐️Vladimir Novakovski, Founder of Lighter

Timestamps

00:00 Intro

03:40 Tokens vs equity: the Venice VVV debate begins

06:12 Fiduciary duty, Delaware law, and Lighter's C corp structure

08:00 What happens when buyback capital runs out

12:42 Why Venice launched a token in the first place

19:18 Comparing VVV to BNB and overloaded crypto assets

25:28 Lighter's Robinhood Chain deal and native Perps launch

37:02 BonkDAO governance exploit and the $20M vote

44:02 Lessons from Beanstalk and Compound's Humpty saga

47:09 Trump's $2.4B crypto income disclosure reactions

Disclosures

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