Trinity Forum Conversations

Latest Episodes:

Character, Virtue, and Leadership with Michael Lamb Apr 04, 2023

Show notes

Character, Virtue, and Leadership with Michael Lamb

The increasing conflict, chaos, and moral confusion of our time has made leadership more challenging, and the role of character increasingly questioned. What does it mean to lead wisely and well? Is successful leadership defined by “winning”? How is trust built in a cynical age?

The Link Between Virtue and Leadership

Wake Forest professor, author, and director of the The Program for Leadership and Character, Michael Lamb helps us wrestle with these questions by exploring the link between virtue and wise leadership, and showing how character formation enables leaders to establish trust, think wisely, empower others, and persevere through difficult times.

“If we do care about our social fabric, if we care about our communal flourishing, we need the virtues that help us build meaningful relationships. We need empathy and we need humility to recognize our limits. And we need courage and justice, and we need other virtues. And I think in that context, I think what's really important is to recognize that.

“Character matters and it matters for our flourishing, but also it can actually lead to more effective results.”

Defining Leadership and Character

In addition to helpfully defining leadership and character, Michael offers insight into why we often prefer unscrupulous or brash leaders in public while seeking friends of virtue. Drawing on Augustine, Michael reminds us that we aren’t victims of our times, but instead have an active, hopeful role to play in shaping the character of our communities in our time.

This podcast is an edited version of our Online Conversation from February, 2023. You can access the full conversation with transcript here.

Learn more about Michael Lamb.

Authors and books mentioned in the conversation:

Anthony Kronman

Harry Lewis

Return on Character: The Real Reason Leaders and Their Companies Win, Fred Kiel

Richard Reeves

Machiavelli

Aristotle

The Road to Character, David Brooks

St. Augustine of Hippo

Martin Luther King Jr.

Gandhi

The Courage to Teach, Parker Palmer

Related Trinity Forum Readings:

Crisis-Ready Leadership Collection
The Confessions of St. Augustine

Related Conversations:

Leadership in Tumultuous Times with Ron C. White

Lincoln in Private with Ron C. White
Crisis Ready Leadership
Redeeming Power with Diane Langberg

To listen to this or any of our episodes in full, visit ttf.org/podcast and to join the Trinity Forum Society and help make content like this possible, join the Trinity Forum Society

Special thanks to Ned Bustard for our podcast artwork.

Redeeming Power with Diane Langberg Mar 21, 2023

Show notes

Redeeming Power with Diane Langberg

Psychologist and author Dr. Diane Langberg joins our podcast to discuss the themes in her book, Redeeming Power: Understanding Authority and Abuse in the Church. Dr. Langberg who has been working with survivors of trauma and abuse, clergy, and caregivers for almost 50 years, desires to increase awareness and understanding of power and its abuse so those who have been abandoned by broken systems of power can be defended and protected.

Defending dysfunctional and abusive systems

"When we think about a system of any kind, whether it's a government or some kind of organization, or the church, which is a system, it's people standing together usually for a particular goal or purpose or whatever.And so what the people want to do is maintain the system because of what it gives them. So if you come along and say, the person who's running that system is a wolf and is devouring the sheep, nobody wants to hear that. Because if that's the case, then the thing that they believe in that keeps them safe isn't safe. That's terrifying." - Diane Langberg

In this conversation Dr. Langberg discusses the purposes, dynamics, systems, and proper place of power, as well as the ways in which it can deform and distort, noting that “our responses to the vulnerable expose who we are.”

And she noted that while “much of Christendom today seems less interested in seeing as Jesus saw…and far more interested in gaining power,” there is also the invitation and opportunity before us to “cross divides, step out of high positions, and reach out with love to those who are vulnerable, whose power is little or trampled, bestowing benedictions as we go.” We trust you’ll find this conversation inspiring and hopeful.

This podcast is an edited version of our Online Conversation from July 2021. You can access the full conversation with transcript here.

Learn more about Diane Langberg.

Authors and books mentioned in the conversation:

George Herbert

Related Trinity Forum Readings:

Crisis-Ready Leadership Collection

Related Conversations:

Leadership in Tumultuous Times with Ron C. White
Lincoln in Private with Ron C. White
Crisis Ready Leadership

To listen to this or any of our episodes in full, visit ttf.org/podcast and to join the Trinity Forum Society and help make content like this possible, join the Trinity Forum Society

Special thanks to Ned Bustard for our podcast artwork.

Crisis Ready Leadership Mar 07, 2023

Show notes

Crisis Ready Leadership with Justin Giboney, Russell Moore, Shirley Hoogstra, Walter Kim

What does it take to listen, respond, learn, and lead? How do leaders prepare for the unexpected and unpredictable?

In this episode Shirley Hoogstra, Russell Moore, Justin Giboney and Walter Kim consider the historic values of leadership, share lessons learned from their own lives, and provide encouragement for leaders today.

How to Speak in a Crisis

Reflecting on the temptation to tell people what they want to hear, Russell Moore encourages leaders to consider long-term credibility and speaking the truth:

“I think one of the most dangerous things that can possibly happen is if people don't believe that you believe what it is that you're saying. And that's a tendency…to think, well, what would people want me to say? And I will say that. And that can make things easy for the moment, but long term, you're not going to be believed by the very people who need you to lead.” - Russell Moore

Faithfulness vs. Perfection
Shirley Hoogstra shared about the freedom that comes with being “roughly ready” in a crisis, and in casting our fears and anxieties on God:

“In this time of fear, Christians actually have the advantage because the Bible speaks about fear. It speaks about “don't be afraid,” “don't be anxious,” not because you've got the willpower to do it, but because you can bring your anxiety and your fear to God.
“And I'm sure with the other leaders on this call, you've woken up in the middle of the night and you've wondered about decisions or actions that you have to take, and then you say, ‘Lord, I just have to give it over to you. You have it. I don't have to have it. You are the engine. I'm not the engine. And you'll gimme a redo loop if I get it wrong.’ It is not perfection, it's faithfulness.”

This podcast offers a wealth of wisdom on leading through crisis, and is an edited version of our Online Conversation from June 2020. You can access the full conversation with transcript here.

Learn more about Justin Gibony, Russell Moore, Shirley Hoogstra, and Walter Kim.

Authors and books mentioned in the conversation:

Max De Pree

Seth Godin

Learning in Wartime, by C.S. Lewis

Good to Great, by Jim Collins

Bishop Claude Alexander

Dr. Charlie Day

Esau McCauley

Andy Crouch

A Rule of Life, by Praxis Labs

The Dip, by Seth Godin

Eugene Peterson

Your Labor is not in Vain

Leadership on the Line, by Martin Linsky and Ronald A. Heifetz

Related Trinity Forum Readings:

Crisis-Ready Leadership Collection

Related Conversations:

Leadership in Tumultuous Times with Ron C. White
Lincoln in Private with Ron C. White

To listen to this or any of our episodes in full, visit ttf.org/podcast and to join the Trinity Forum Society and help make content like this possible, join the Trinity Forum Society

Special thanks to Ned Bustard for our podcast artwork.

Lincoln in Private: Leadership Behind Closed Doors with Ron C. White Feb 21, 2023

Show notes

Lincoln in Private: Leadership Behind Closed Doors with Ron White

Lincoln did not keep a diary but he developed the habit of writing reflections and ruminations on little slips of paper. These notes, which Lincoln never intended for anyone to see, help us understand the depth of Lincoln’s character and thinking and introduce us to the private Lincoln behind the public Lincoln.

In his new work Lincoln in Private, renowned historian and biographer Ronald C. White takes the reader through a tour of Abraham Lincoln’s private notes that illustrate the ways in which he struggled with the national, moral, and spiritual crises of his times, and reflected on the possibilities of God’s purposes during the Civil War. In doing so, White shows the struggles of leadership behind closed doors — and what can be learned from Lincoln’s example.

At the end of the day, character does matter that policies are important, but policies will come and go. Character is what is lasting and over the long haul, whoever the person is. We don't need to think even simply of political figures. Leaders in business, lawyers, teachers, presidents of colleges or universities, character is what will endure or what will actually cause a person to fall.

Whether we know it or not, whether we talk about it or not. Character might sound like an old-fashioned word, but I think it's the underlying definition of who leaders are. - Ron C. White

This podcast is an edited version of our Online Conversation from May 2021. You can access the full conversation with transcript here.

Learn more about Ron White.

Related Trinity Forum Readings:

Abraham Lincoln: the Spiritual Growth of a Public Man
The Great Lives Collection

Related Conversations:

Leadership in Tumultuous Times with Ron C. White

To listen to this or any of our episodes in full, visit ttf.org/podcast and to join the Trinity Forum Society and help make content like this possible, join the Trinity Forum Society

Special thanks to Ned Bustard for our podcast artwork.

The Blessing of Limitations with Kelly Kapic Dec 19, 2022

Show notes

The Blessing of Limitations with Kelly Kapic

We live in an age of speed and overwhelm, where we often feel we are constantly expected to do more, move faster, work harder, brush past boundaries and limits, and shave margins. When we inevitably fail to meet all demands, we are left feeling not only exhausted and discouraged, but often disoriented and diminished.

But what if, instead of seeing our limitations as an impediment, we could learn to view them as a blessing, even a gift? In You’re Only Human, theologian and scholar Kelly Kapic provides a theologically grounded approach to understanding and receiving the gift of our human finitude.

On this final podcast episode of our Advent series, Kelly Kapic offers us a way to find joy and relief in our incarnational limits and use them to foster greater freedom, spiritual growth, and deeper community.

This podcast is an edited version of our Online Conversation from December 2022. You can access the full conversation with transcript here.

Learn more about Kelly Kapic.

Authors and books mentioned in the conversation:

You’re Only Human, by Kelly Kapic

Embodied Hope, by Kelly Kapic

The God Who Gives, by Kelly Kapic

The Devoted Life, by Kelly Kapic

Becoming Whole, by Kelly Kapic

Wendell Berry

The Sabbath, by Abram Joshua Heschel

Robert Emmons

Related Trinity Forum Readings:

Bright Evening Star, Madeleine L’Engle
A Christmas Carol, by Charles Dickens
Babette’s Feast, by Isak Dinesen

Related Conversations:

Practicing Gratitude with Diana Butler Bass
Beauty and Wonder with Andrew Peterson
Time and Hope with James K.A. Smith
Beauty from Darkness with Curt Thompson

To listen to this or any of our episodes in full, visit ttf.org/podcast and to join the Trinity Forum Society and help make content like this possible, join the Trinity Forum Society

Special thanks to Ned Bustard for our podcast artwork.

Beauty from Darkness with Curt Thompson Dec 12, 2022

Show notes

Beauty from Darkness with Curt Thompson

How do we seek, find and share hope and healing in hard times?

In this fourth episode of our Advent Series, psychiatrist and author Curt Thompson and Trinity Forum President Cherie Harder discuss healing, grace, and reintegration — both for our individual and spiritual lives, and our shared life together. Together they consider how being known and believing what is true about our stories can transform our perspective and bring hope and healing:

"Shame is the antithesis and is that force that evil wants to use to undermine not only our ability to be known by one another deeply, which we were made for, we were made to be known, but we were also made to be known on the way to creating artifacts of beauty, whether those artifacts are relationships, whether they're new pieces of music, art, businesses, and so forth."
– Curt Thompson

This podcast is an edited version of our Online Conversation from November 2020. You can access the full conversation with transcript here.

Learn more about Curt Thompson.

Authors and books mentioned in the conversation:

Makoto Fujimura

M. Scott Peck

Related Trinity Forum Readings:

Bright Evening Star, Madeleine L’Engle
A Christmas Carol, by Charles Dickens
Babette’s Feast, by Isak Dinesen

Related Conversations:

Practicing Gratitude with Diana Butler Bass
Beauty and Wonder with Andrew Peterson
Time and Hope with James K.A. Smith

To listen to this or any of our episodes in full, visit ttf.org/podcast and to join the Trinity Forum Society and help make content like this possible, join the Trinity Forum Society

Special thanks to Ned Bustard for our podcast artwork.

Time and Hope James. K.A. Smith Dec 05, 2022

Show notes

Time and Hope with James K.A. Smith

In this third episode of our Advent Series, philosopher and author James K.A. Smith helps us consider what it means to be creatures that are bound and formed by time. Each of us is shaped by the stories that precede us:

“I think to be a creature who is living into the fullness of being human means grappling with, reckoning with, and sort of gratefully receiving the way that our past, our history, our our embeddedness in time has contributed to this unique identity that God has made us to fulfill. And, , it's hard work.”

As we mark Advent, a season of waiting, of reckoning with time, and of hopeful longing for the fulfillment of the Kingdom, Smith helps us rightly locate our hope in God:

“Hope is possible precisely because you don't think the present is all there is. And you also don't think that humans are the only agents in this, that the God of the cosmos who fires the world with love is out ahead of us, which is precisely why there can always be new possibilities. I think that's radical for us to think about personally and individually. And I think it's radical for us to think about collectively and communally.”

This podcast is an edited version of our Online Conversation from September 2022. You can access the full conversation with transcript here.

Learn more about James K.A. Smith.

Authors and books mentioned in the conversation:

Who's Afraid of Postmodernism

Desiring The Kingdom.

The Devil Reads Derrida - and Other Essays on the University, the Church, Politics, and the Arts

You Are What You Love

Awaiting The King

On the road with St. Augustine: A Real World Spirituality for Restless Hearts

How to Inhabit Time: Understanding the Past, Facing the Future, and Living Faithful Now

Makoto Fujimura

Henri Nouwen

St. Teresa of Avila

Thomas Merton

Related Trinity Forum Readings:

Bright Evening Star, Madeleine L’Engle
A Christmas Carol, by Charles Dickens
Babette’s Feast, by Isak Dinesen

Related Conversations:

Practicing Gratitude with Diana Butler Bass
Beauty and Wonder with Andrew Peterson

To listen to this or any of our episodes in full, visit ttf.org/podcast and to join the Trinity Forum Society and help make content like this possible, join the Trinity Forum Society

Special thanks to Ned Bustard for our podcast artwork.

Beauty and Wonder with Andrew Peterson Nov 28, 2022

Show notes

Beauty and Wonder with Andrew Peterson

In this second episode of our Advent Series, celebrated author and songwriter Andrew Peterson shares his insights about the importance of location and living responsibly and attentively in whatever specific place you inhabit. He discusses how deeper attentiveness to the beauty around us can awaken us to wisdom and wonder.

This podcast is an edited version of our Online Conversation from December 2021. You can access the full conversation with transcript here.

Learn more about Andrew Peterson.

Authors and books mentioned in the conversation:

The God of the Garden, by Andrew Peterson
Tim Mackey, The Bible Project’s Tree of Life podcast series
Jaber Crow, by Wendell Berry
William Wordsworth
The Death and Life of Great American Cities, Jane Jacobs
The Geography of Nowhere: The Rise and Decline of America's Man-Made Landscape, by James Howard Kunstler
Sidewalks in the Kingdom: New Urbanism and the Christian Faith, Eric O. Jacobsen
Gilead, by Marilynne Robinson
Rich Mullins
10 Resolutions for Mental Health, Clyde Kilby

Related Trinity Forum Readings:

Bright Evening Star, Madeleine L’Engle
A Christmas Carol, by Charles Dickens
Babette’s Feast, by Isak Dinesen

Related Conversations:

Practicing Gratitude with Diana Butler Bass

To listen to this or any of our episodes in full, visit ttf.org/podcast and to join the Trinity Forum Society and help make content like this possible, join the Trinity Forum Society

Special thanks to Ned Bustard for our podcast artwork.

Practicing Gratitude with Diana Butler Bass Nov 21, 2022

Show notes

This podcast is an edited version of our Online Conversation from November 2021. You can access the full conversation with transcript here.

Learn more about Diana Butler Bass.

Diana’s Substack, The Cottage is available here.

You can find Diana’s book Grateful and others here.

Grace and Gratitude: The Eucharistic Theology of John Calvin by Brian Gerrish

Mary Jo Leddy

Join the Trinity Forum Society

Waiting With Wisdom Nov 21, 2022

Show notes

With Thanksgiving and the season of Advent approaching, The Trinity Forum is offering a new podcast series to help you think more deeply about ideas and practices related to gratitude, attention, anticipation, and what it means to behold beauty. We’ll talk with Diana Butler Bass about the meaning and practice of Gratitude Andrew Peterson will share his insights on how deeper attentiveness to the beauty around us can awaken us to wisdom and wonder. James K.A. Smith will help us explore the importance of being time-bound creates and how to best inhabit time Curt Thompson will consider the ways that beauty can emerge from the most difficult situations. Subscribe to Trinity Forum Conversations wherever you listen to podcasts to make sure you don't miss an episode. And thank you for allowing us to be part of your Thanksgiving and Advent season.

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