Stay ConnectedBen Olson and Nathan Fox started the Thinking LSAT Podcast to become better LSAT teachers and have some fun. Please 1) subscribe, 2) rate and review, and 3) send us questions: help@thinkinglsat.com. Don’t pay for law school!
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Copyright: © Nathan Fox and Ben Olson
Ben and Nathan review a law school’s streamlined application process that doesn’t require a personal statement or letters of recommendation. The evidence is clear: some law schools really care only about your LSAT and GPA. Later on, the guys reassure an applicant that a great LSAT score overshadows a lackluster résumé. They also consider whether ABA 509 data misrepresent scholarship offers and discuss a listener’s mathematical analysis of guessing on the LSAT.
5:22 - WashU Low-Income Scholarships - WashU Law announced full-tuition scholarships for low-income students, but questions remain about who will actually qualify.
16:57 - No Personal Statement, No Problem - The University of Alabama recently invited listener Abhi to apply via a “streamlined” application that doesn’t require a personal statement or letters of recommendation.
30:24 - Pearls vs. Turds - Listener G submits a Pearls vs. Turds candidate adopted from their work as a police officer: “Drive as slowly as possible and as fast as necessary.”
36:34 - Scholarships for a Splitter - Demon student Olivia wonders whether her low GPA means she’ll need to score 175 on the LSAT to attract merit scholarship offers. Ben and Nathan use the LSAT Demon Scholarship Estimator to investigate Olivia’s chances.
45:55 - The LSAT Is What Really Matters - Demon student Aly worries that law schools will be unimpressed with her extracurriculars and work experience. Nathan and Ben implore Aly not to chase résumé padders at the expense of study.
59:28 - Character and Fitness - An anonymous listener worries that their separation from the Navy might be flagged as a Character and Fitness issue. Ben and Nathan suspect that it’s not a big deal but recommend that Anonymous ask their state bar.
1:03:58 - Start with Free - Listener Kiana scored 131 on her diagnostic and now feels lost. The guys warn Kiana of the long road ahead and recommend that she begin with LSAT Demon Free before committing more time and money to LSAT prep.
1:10:55 - Misleading Scholarship Data? - Anonymous asks whether scholarships reported on ABA 509 reports misrepresent those actually offered by law schools. Nathan and Ben discuss this possibility and double down on their advice to apply broadly.
1:19:42 - Chasing a Perfect Score - International applicant Phuong wonders whether it’s feasible to aim for a perfect score in Logical Reasoning. Ben and Nathan remind Phuong that their goal should be -0 on one question at a time, not -0 on the section.
1:24:21 - Lucky 177 - Listener Karl shares his analysis of the likelihood of scoring 177 given varying degrees of random guessing. As suspected, random chance accounts for a miniscule portion of your LSAT score. Luck won’t get your score into the 170s.
Ben interviews Angela Vorpahl, a consultant who guides law students through their 1L year. Angela shares the top five mistakes students make on law school final exams. But first, Nathan and Ben kick off this week’s episode with a brief discussion of the recent news surrounding the U.S. News rankings and the ABA’s decision to end the testing requirement for law school applications. Current applicants can rest assured that law schools will continue to value the LSAT and offer merit scholarships to attract high-scoring applicants.
4:01 - Rankings and ABA News - Nathan and Ben discuss the implications of top law schools withdrawing from the U.S. News rankings and the ABA’s decision to remove the standardized test requirement for law school applicants. For now, these changes are unlikely to affect law school admissions in any meaningful way.
13:58 - Angela Vorpahl - Angela Vorpahl helps law students take control of their 1L grades through her consulting business and YouTube channel. Angela joins Ben to discuss why students need actionable study plans. She also shares the top five mistakes that students make on final exams.
32:38 - Mistake #1: Not Creating a Study Plan - Angela explains why you shouldn’t simply study for your first exam first. Instead, create a schedule that spaces out your study in the buildup to exam week.
41:30 - Mistake #2: Repeating the Facts of the Case - On law school exams, you don’t get points for simply repeating the facts of the case. Instead, you should use the facts in the context of your arguments about the relevant issues.
45:21 - Mistake #3: Ignoring Format - Make an effort to format your arguments so the professor can more easily award you points for them. In some cases, this might mean numbering your arguments.
52:12 - Mistake #4: Not Talking to Your Professors - Angela recommends talking to your professors in person to ask about their formatting preferences for their final exams. Professors are also invaluable resources for finding jobs and securing letters of recommendation.
59:20 - Mistake #5: Trying to Get the Answers “Right” - On law school exams, you get points by making arguments and counterarguments for each issue you spot. You aren’t expected to—and shouldn’t try to—get the question “right.” Angela discusses why “thinking like a lawyer” helps avoid blind spots that might sabotage your exam.
1:05:41 - Final Advice - Angela advises you to think of law school as a step toward the life you want to build. After all, you attend law school to become a lawyer, not a law student.
Ben and Nathan discuss score ranges and why your confidence in your ability shouldn’t rise and fall with your practice test scores. The guys also review an unusual Logic Games question type that popped up on the November test, poke fun at an email soliciting donations for Nathan’s alma mater, and celebrate another soul saved from law school.
Watch Ben and Nathan's response to Yale and other law schools' decision to withdraw from the rankings.
5:45 - A New LG Question Type? - Test takers encountered an unusual question type on the Logic Games section of the November test. Demon teacher Matt DuMont proves it’s nothing the LSAT hasn’t done before.
8:04 - Your Range Is Not a Fluke - Nathan and Ben reassure a Demon student that their recent high practice test score wasn’t a fluke but a new max in their score range.
13:28 - Early Letters of Recommendation - The guys advise Demon student A.D. to go ahead and request a letter of recommendation from their employer even if they won’t apply until next cycle.
16:31 - Eliminate Excuses - The 170s are within reach for Demon student Audrey now that she’s embraced the Demon mindset and eliminated excuses from her study.
19:07 - Worth the Cost? - The guys review an email from UC Hastings that asks Nathan to donate money. Nathan’s alma mater hopes their students “feel that the value of their education is worth the cost.”
23:32 - Advice for a Fifth Attempt - Listener Sarah asks for last-minute tips as she prepares for her final test attempt. Ben and Nathan’s advice remains the same whether it’s your first or fifth official test: treat it like any other practice test.
26:46 - A Vague Scholarship Offer - Demon student G shares an unsolicited email from Elon University School of Law advertising a vague potential scholarship and guaranteed residency-in-practice. The guys weigh in.
31:14 - Another Soul Saved - Despite enjoying LSAT study, Demon student Pat decided not to attend law school after realizing that they don’t need a J.D. for the work they’re interested in.
34:03 - One Logic Games Section Per Day? - Nathan and Ben advise Demon student Amina on how much to focus on LG while not neglecting the other sections of the test.
38:44 - A Canadian Success Story - A Canadian Demon student thanks the guys for helping them score 171 on the September LSAT. Should this student retake? Since Canadian law schools consider applicants’ average LSAT scores, the answer is unclear.
41:26 - Prestigious Master’s Degree - A listener asks if law schools will care about their master’s degree from Oxford. The guys think so, but not as much as LSAT or UGPA.
43:25 - Addressing a Withdrawal - Listener Amanda wonders how law schools will view a withdrawal from a second bachelor’s program. Ben and Nathan weigh in and draft a sample addendum to address the withdrawal.
Ben and Nathan celebrate Demon students’ successes on the October LSAT—and encourage more students to retake the test. When every point matters, it pays to get greedy. Also on the show, the guys advise a law enforcement officer on his study habits, counsel a student who faces tremendous parental pressure to apply this cycle, and evaluate a full-ride scholarship offer with an early deadline to commit.
4:03 - A 22-Point Improvement - A year after his 151 diagnostic, Demon student Arman scored 173 on the October LSAT. Ben and Nathan encourage him to get greedy and retake.
7:03 - A 24-Point Improvement - Demon student Alex raised his score from 139 to 163 in four months with the Demon. The guys think Alex should shoot even higher.
10:28 - From Law Enforcement to Law School - Demon student Jared plans a midlife career shift from law enforcement to lawyering. But he finds the LSAT to be a stiff challenge. Nathan and Ben explain why his progress will depend on his willingness to slow down and get the easy questions right.
15:47 - Parental Pressure - Demon student Connor faces familial pressure to apply to law school as soon as possible. Ben and Nathan advise Connor to stay the course and apply next cycle with his best LSAT score.
22:48 - Simulating Accommodations - An anonymous listener can’t accurately simulate their accommodations on practice tests in LawHub. Luckily, the Demon lets them do so.
27:23 - Scholarship Deadline - An anonymous listener received a full-ride scholarship offer with a deadline to commit by December 1. Should they accept, or wait to hear from other schools? Nathan and Ben weigh in.
48:50 - LSAT Investment - Demon student Simon increased his score from the mid 150s to 173 on the October test. The guys consider the lifetime return on his investment in the LSAT before they—you guessed it—tell him to get greedy and retake the test.
54:02 - Funded Legal Education Program - Demon student Kaitlyn asks about the Funded Legal Education Program for active-duty military members. Ben and Nathan discuss why law schools might find FLEP applicants attractive.
Ben and Nathan discuss LSAC’s upcoming Analytical Reasoning Field Study and assure listeners that the Logic Games aren’t changing anytime soon. They also hear from two former students who followed their advice and decided not to pay for law school—or not to go at all. Plus, the guys recommend resources for improving your writing and comment on the first fully online JD program to be approved by the ABA.
3:31 - LSAC Testing New Logic Games - LSAC continues to test new Logic Games formats. Ben and Nathan assure current LSAT students that the Logic Games aren’t changing anytime soon.
11:01 - Spatial Reasoning - An anonymous listener shares an article critical of IQ tests in response to Nathan and Ben’s recent discussion of IQ and the LSAT.
15:19 - Books about Writing - Long-time listener Jeff asks about a book on writing. The guys recommend several, including Style: Lessons in Clarity and Grace, by Joseph Williams, and On Writing, by Stephen King.
19:18 - Twelve Points in One Month - LSAT Demon student Hannah had modest LSAT goals but surprised herself with a twelve-point improvement in one month of study. She now has her sights set on the 170s and a full scholarship to law school.
21:28 - Online Law School - St. Mary’s University School of Law offers the first fully online ABA-approved JD program. The guys discuss why online law school is a great idea.
28:16 - Avoiding Law School - In episode 366, Nathan and Ben encouraged LSAT Demon student James to pursue other career interests before committing to law. James updates the guys on his decision.
32:01 - Launch Your Legal Career - Listener Juan worries about being “late in the game” if he takes a gap year. Ben and Nathan discuss why age doesn’t matter in law school and why it’s important to launch your legal career the right way—with a great LSAT score.
42:01 - Logical Reasoning: Soot - Try this question for yourself here.
Nathan and Ben continue their discussion about IQ and the LSAT with some input from Thinking LSAT listener and amateur psychometrician Anthony. They discuss how the LSAT differs from other tests of IQ and why it’s possible to make huge improvements to your LSAT score despite its correlation with IQ. Later on the show, the guys analyze CUNY School of Law’s decision to stop awarding merit-based scholarships, warn a listener that law school won’t make her a better writer, and share their results from an online personality test.
2:43 - IQ and the LSAT - On last week’s episode, the guys discussed whether the LSAT tests IQ. Demon student Anthony responds with more information about IQ, how it’s traditionally tested, and why LSAT scores might be roughly correlated with IQ. Ben and Nathan reiterate that the LSAT is largely a test of how hard you’re willing to work—regardless of your inherent IQ.
23:27 - CUNY Drops Merit Scholarships - CUNY School of Law has announced that they will no longer award merit-based scholarships. Ben and Nathan wonder if CUNY’s need-based aid might still go primarily to higher-qualified students.
30:13 - Undergrad Course Selection - Listener Gabe asks for Nathan and Ben’s advice in picking an elective course for his final semester of school. The guys consider his options and ultimately advise him to take one that he knows he’ll ace.
36:19 - Will Law School Improve My Writing? - International applicant Nafoset says she wants to pursue a JD over an LLM to help improve her English writing and speaking skills. Ben and Nathan warn her that law school is a terrible place to learn how to write.
48:27 - Determine Your Strengths - Listener Mary shares a free online test that she found to be useful in determining her strengths. Nathan and Ben discuss their own results and their general thoughts on personality tests in the style of StrengthsFinder.
Today on the show, Ben and Nathan take a glimpse behind the curtain at a law school’s approach to scholarship negotiations. The guys examine an email that reveals how one school is prepared to negotiate, and they discuss what it means for applicants. Also on the pod, Nathan and Ben advise an MMA fighter on his personal statement, comment on whether the LSAT tests IQ, and evaluate tips for addressing a low LSAT score in your applications.
2:09 - Misleading Scholarship Data - Demon student Matt shares details of his recent conversation with a law school admissions dean. According to this dean, the scholarship data on their ABA 509 report are misleading.
6:07 - Scholarship Negotiation - An anonymous listener has begun to negotiate their scholarship with a law school. The law school’s response sheds useful light on their approach to the process. Ben and Nathan discuss why law schools are savvy negotiators and what bargaining chips you can bring to the table.
15:16 - Harvard’s Junior Deferral Program - An anonymous listener considers applying to Harvard’s binding Junior Deferral Program. Ben and Nathan advise listeners to remain flexible and not to bind themselves to any one school. The guys also discuss whether it’s worth paying full tuition to attend an elite law school.
21:46 - Running Low on Attempts - Demon student Abhi is hesitant to register for their fourth official LSAT attempt. Nathan and Ben think that if you’re truly ready to take the test, then you should go ahead and register. Your approach doesn’t change depending on how many attempts you have remaining.
27:02 - Picking a Personal Statement Topic - Demon student Darren wonders whether his MMA career could be an appropriate topic for his personal statement. Ben and Nathan think so, but they also suspect that some people might be turned off by the topic. They recommend that Darren write multiple rough drafts about different topics and then choose the one that portrays him in the best light.
33:21 - IQ and the LSAT - Does the LSAT test IQ? Probably not—or at least not exclusively—given how much people can improve at the LSAT.
36:47 - Pearls vs. Turds - Listener Meghan shares some advice from US News & World Report. Nathan and Ben analyze their three tips for addressing a low LSAT score in law school applications.
43:05 - Waiting for a Letter of Recommendation - An anonymous listener can’t submit their applications until they get a final letter of recommendation. Unfortunately, the professor who agreed to write it is dragging their feet. Ben and Nathan think it’s probably time for Anonymous to find a new recommender.
47:35 - Working While Studying - Listener Nafosat has received a job offer from a law firm. But they worry that the position would restrict their ability to study more than two hours per day. The guys assure Nafosat that an hour or two of LSAT study each day is plenty.
Should you retake the LSAT? The answer is almost always yes. Today on the show, Ben and Nathan advise a student who fears scoring lower on a second attempt. They discuss why law schools care only about your highest LSAT score—and why that means there’s only upside to retaking the test. Also on the pod, the guys review a task management framework, give advice on how to stay focused, and tackle a Logical Reasoning question from PrepTest 73.
2:14 - The Four D’s of Task Management - Ben and Nathan discuss the four D’s of task management, by productivity consultant Ashley Janssen: Delete, Delegate, Defer, Do. This approach to your to-do list emphasizes deciding what NOT to do so that you can prioritize what’s truly important.
12:11 - Logical Reasoning: Test 73, Section 4, Q14 - Nathan and Ben tackle a “Supported” question from Test 73 about taxes on gasoline. Click here to try this question on your own.
24:03 - Only Your Best Score Matters - An anonymous Demon student scored lower than expected on the September LSAT. They’re prepared to retake the test, but they worry that law schools will look unfavorably on a lower score. Ben and Nathan reassure Anonymous that law schools care only about your best LSAT score.
29:13 - Should I Retake? - An anonymous listener with a score of 174 on record wonders whether to retake the LSAT to improve their chances at a top-twenty law school. Nathan and Ben think so. The guys also speculate on why LSAT scores have gone up since the beginning of the pandemic.
40:21 - Zoning Out - An LSAT Demon student asks for Ben and Nathan’s advice on how to stop zoning out on their practice tests. The guys discuss why awareness is a crucial first step. They recommend meditation to practice regaining focus.
Nathan and Ben are joined by special guest Megan Smiley, who coaches lawyers seeking to leave legal practice. They discuss why so many lawyers want to escape their careers—and why that’s especially challenging for anyone burdened with student loans. Megan encourages listeners to examine their values and strengths before committing to law school. Also on the pod, Nathan and Ben hear from recent students who crushed the LSAT, discuss law schools’ incentives for granting application fee waivers, and question whether there’s such a thing as a “bad test taker.”
5:30 - Megan Smiley - Megan Smiley left legal practice to start her own heart-centered business. She now coaches other lawyers who want to do the same. Learn more about Megan’s work at megansmiley.com and The Lawyer’s Escape Pod.
41:49 - Pearls vs. Turds - Listener Jon proposes that “there’s no such thing as a bad test taker.” Nathan and Ben think it’s a nice sentiment, but they’re not sure that it’s actually true.
45:32 - Read What’s in Front of You - Former Demon student Van just crushed the LSAT. In his exit survey, he outlines advice that is central to the Demon philosophy.
51:27 - Application Fee Waivers - Listener “CAS Hunter” requested application fee waivers from 27 law schools. Ben and Nathan review CAS Hunter’s results and discuss law schools’ incentives for granting fee waivers.
57:48 - Victor’s Success Story - Longtime listener Victor shares his LSAT and law school success story. Victor currently attends Texas Law and will soon begin work at a law firm in Dallas. He thanks Nathan and Ben for changing the trajectory of his life.
1:04:53 - Streak Leaderboard - Nathan and Ben check the LSAT Demon streak leaderboard.
1:06:25 - A 25-Point Increase - An anonymous listener credits Ben and Nathan for helping him score 177 on the September LSAT.
1:08:26 - Reusing Old Tests - Demon student Q worries that reusing sections might skew their practice test scores. Nathan and Ben reassure Q that they’ll be fine as long as they continue to learn from their mistakes.
Ben and Nathan are joined by special guest Alison Monahan, cofounder of Law School Toolbox. They discuss law school and bar exam prep, the law school–big law pipeline, and the current legal job market. Also on the show, the guys talk tactics for scholarship conversations, consider the value of learning to speed-read, and review a strategy for answering Flaw questions.
1:29 - Alison Monahan - Alison Monahan founded the Law School Toolbox and The Girl’s Guide to Law School. She joins Ben and Nathan for a discussion about test prep and making the most of law school.
37:18 - Drilling Leaderboard - Nathan and Ben check the LSAT Demon drilling accuracy leaderboard.
38:06 - Dean Z Revisited - The guys revisit Dean Z’s recent video on financial aid and respond to her advice about scholarship negotiations.
50:28 - Universities Are Businesses - Ben and Nathan discuss a Slate article about the growing share of out-of-state students at public universities.
58:25 - Speed-Reading - An anonymous Demon student considers learning to speed-read. Nathan and Ben warn listeners not to forget what’s really important: understanding.
1:06:20 - Pass/Fail Courses - Demon student Julia wonders whether she should enroll pass/fail in a difficult course to protect her GPA. Ben and Nathan advise.
1:10:58 - Retaking LSAT Writing - An anonymous listener asks whether to retake the LSAT Writing section after making some spelling errors on their first attempt. Ben asks: What would a lawyer do?
1:13:37 - Success Story - LSAT Demon student Rachael shares her recent study successes.
1:15:48 - Pearls vs. Turds - Listener Daisy praises Demon teacher Lily for her helpful approach to Flaw questions in Logical Reasoning.
1:18:07 - GI Bill Benefits - According to listener Chris, GI Bill benefits no longer expire for those discharged after 2013.
1:19:38 - Requesting LORs - Ben and Nathan advise listener Melissa on requesting a letter of recommendation from a lawyer she works with.
1:22:49 - Apply Next Cycle - Listener Joshua plans to study for the January LSAT over Christmas break. Nathan and Ben suggest that he rethink his approach and apply next cycle.
1:27:00 - Personal Statement Help - Student Chris thanks LSAT Demon’s Leslie for her personal-statement editing services.
1:29:26 - Negotiating Scholarships - The guys discuss why scholarship negotiations aren’t going away any time soon.
1:42:49 - Dual Degrees and Public vs. Private - Demon student Amrit inquires about dual JD programs and the benefits of public versus private schools.
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