Stay ConnectedBen Olson and Nathan Fox started the Thinking LSAT Podcast to become better LSAT teachers and have some fun. Please 1) subscribe, 2) rate and review, and 3) send us questions: help@thinkinglsat.com. Don’t pay for law school!
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Copyright: © Nathan Fox and Ben Olson
Admissions officers may say that you have to pay for law school. Nathan and Ben disagree. On today’s pod, the guys review financial aid advice from Dean Z of Michigan Law. They then discuss how applicants can improve their scholarship bargaining power. Later, the guys vibe to some soulful advice from Ray Charles, evaluate the diminishing returns of higher LSAT scores for “splitters,” and consider the advantages of applying as a “non-KJD.”
4:43 - Dean Z on Financial Aid - Listener Anthony shares a recent video in which Dean Z from Michigan Law downplays applicants’ ability to negotiate scholarships. Ben and Nathan respond and inform listeners on how to empower their bargaining positions.
27:54 - Pearls vs. Turds - Listener Krista proposes a color-coded mindfulness practice used by her daughter’s kindergarten class.
34:36 - Testing on an Unlicensed OS - Nathan and Ben discuss listener Sarah’s brush with LSAC over an unlicensed copy of Windows.
38:00 - Full Rides for Splitters - Demon student “Savvy Splitter” presents their research on the diminishing returns of LSAT scores for people with low UGPAs.
43:05 - Pearls vs. Turds - An anonymous Demon student shares some wisdom from Ray Charles. Nathan and Ben discuss why you need to take the time to “play the right notes” on the LSAT.
45:54 - Controversial Work History - Ben and Nathan counsel LSAT Demon student Gracie on how to present some work experience that admissions officers might view unfavorably.
49:27 - Drink the Demon Facts - LSAT Demon student BV claims to have drunk the Demon Kool-Aid but has flouted some of Nathan and Ben’s advice. The guys encourage BV to stick to a career they already love.
57:05 - Criticizing Law School - Listener Eddie recommends an episode of 5-4 titled “Welcome to Law School (Again).” Ben and Nathan agree with the conclusion that law school is a terrible idea for most people.
1:01:22 - Get Even Greedier - Nathan and Ben encourage a listener with a 173 on record to get greedy.
1:07:26 - Broaden Your Horizons - An anonymous listener asks Ben and Nathan for their thoughts on two Seattle-based schools. The guys advise Anonymous to broaden their horizons.
1:12:23 - False Confidence - Nathan and Ben warn Demon student Benjamin that watching video explanations isn’t a substitute for actual practice.
1:18:40 - Latin Roots - Demon Student Cassandra recommends studying Latin word roots to expand your vocabulary.
1:22:01 - Focus on the LSAT - Ben and Nathan implore Demon student Max to ignore other application components until he’s crushed the LSAT.
1:30:26 - Is There a “Non-KJD Bump”? - Nathan and Ben analyze an anonymous listener’s claim that non-KJD applicants have a statistical advantage in law school applications.
Savvy listeners who applied early this cycle continue to receive scholarship offers. Today, Ben and Nathan discuss an offer that promises all the benefits of an early-decision program without any of the risk. The guys also discuss the shady history of government-backed student loans, an inventive strategy for ignoring the test timer, and the futility of worrying about yield protection.
3:57 - We Are Anti Debt
11:35 - School Rankings Are Unreliable
16:30 - Another Early Scholarship Offer
20:16 - From 151 to 170
25:49 - Pearls vs. Turds
29:43 - Diversity Statement
33:01 - Nested Conditionals
37:05 - Yield Protection
41:48 - Aim to Exceed Medians
46:55 - Pre-Law Societies
48:54 - LSAC Fee Waiver
51:70 - From 156 to 174
53:38 - Test Day Routine
58:57 - GPA Addendum
1:03:05 - LSAT Question Types
1:06:56 - Character & Fitness Issues
1:10:47 - Set Your Sights Higher
1:16:44 - Scholarships for International Students
1:19:06 - Reviewing Reading Comprehension
Today on the pod, Ben and Nathan celebrate two LSAT Demon students who increased their scores by a whopping thirty-one points. They also offer advice and encouragement to listeners who are disappointed by their August test scores. Plus, the first full-ride scholarship of the 2023 admissions cycle arrived even earlier than Nathan and Ben had anticipated. The guys remind listeners to apply at the beginning of the cycle—which may be August for some schools. And they discuss a tweak to their GLAD guide to law school admissions.
6:62 - The First Scholarship of the Cycle - Listener Delia shares news of her August scholarship offer from Arizona State. Ben and Nathan double down on their advice to apply as soon as applications open.
12:31 - From 145 to 176 - Long-time listener Amanda studied for three years to increase her score from 145 to 176. She reflects on some of the biggest lessons from her LSAT journey and describes how she fell in love with the test.
34:37 - An Excuse to Keep Prepping - Student McKenna is underwhelmed by her August test score. But she’s thankful for the excuse to keep studying with Demon Live and listening to the podcast. Nathan and Ben suggest that her lower-than-expected score may be a blessing in disguise.
38:07 - Decide Later - LSAT Demon student Eric suggests an edit to the GLAD acronym for admissions: “D” for “Decide.” Ben and Nathan discuss the merits of shifting your law school decision to the end of the application process.
45:48 - Questionable Admissions Advice - Admissions staff and consultants have advised listener Christina to highlight student employment in her applications. Nathan and Ben remind listeners that admissions professionals’ interests aren’t always aligned with those of the applicants.
55:50 - Should I Try Demon Live? - Ben and Nathan advise an anonymous listener on their LSAT Demon plan options.
59:31 - Four More Shots - LSAT Demon student Mariah feels discouraged by her August test score. Nathan and Ben suspect that she tried to do too much on test day. They remind Mariah that she’s got four more shots at the official test.
1:01:46 - From 140 to 171 - An anonymous listener shares news of their official 171 on the August test—a 31-point improvement over their diagnostic. The guys marvel at the fact that such drastic score increases don’t feel like anomalies anymore.
1:07:54 - Stipends and Fees - An anonymous listener provides information on a fellowship at Penn State Dickinson that could account for the large number of “more than full” scholarships. Ben and Nathan discuss the outrageous fees charged by some law schools.
1:15:49 - Pearls vs. Turds - Listener Joshua shares a tip from another LSAT prep company. Should you avoid timed practice tests until your accuracy on untimed tests is greater than ninety percent? Short answer: No.
Most law schools have begun accepting applications for fall 2023 admission. Nathan and Ben predict when the first scholarship offers of the cycle will come in (hint: soon) and double down on their advice to apply in September with your best LSAT score—or wait until next year. The guys also help a student trying to break out of a Logical Reasoning slump, consider an accounting student’s possible career paths, and advise listeners to attack arguments on the LSAT. Finally, they debut the “GLAD” guide to law school admissions.
3:21 - No More Room Scans? - A judge in Ohio decided that room scans before remote-proctored exams are unconstitutional. Does this decision mean the end of ProctorU room scans on the LSAT? Not so fast, Ben and Nathan say.
6:04 - Law School Rankings Game - Listener “Unbound” shares information on Penn State Law’s binding early-decision program. Nathan and Ben uncover some wild scholarship statistics.
19:51 - Escaping an LR Slump - LSAT Demon student Alondra frets over falling Logical Reasoning scores and asks how to get back on track. The guys encourage Alondra to forget about her section scores and to focus on the specific questions she gets wrong.
25:13 - Excuses Are Boring - An anonymous Demon student asks whether their decision to graduate early warrants writing a GPA addendum. Ben and Nathan remind listeners to stick to the facts and to avoid making uncompelling excuses for low grades.
31:02 - Litigate the LSAT - After a month of study, an LSAT Demon student worries she may lack the imagination needed to grasp conditional logic. Nathan and Ben prescribe patience, practice, and precision. Attack arguments on the LSAT as a litigator would in cross-examination.
42:54 - Apply Early - Ben and Nathan contest an admissions consultant’s claim that there’s no benefit to applying in early September. The guys then guess when they’ll see the first scholarship offers of the cycle.
50:17 - Law or Accounting? - Accounting firms want to pay for Demon student James to attend a Masters of Accountancy program. Should he put off law school to pursue this opportunity? The guys encourage James to decide where his career interests lie, then commit to that one path.
59:35 - RC Strategies - Listener Connor struggles with Reading Comprehension in spite of—or perhaps because of—trying several different strategies to improve. Nathan and Ben advise him to forget “strategy” and to focus on understanding one sentence at a time.
1:06:26 - GLAD Guide to Admissions - An anonymous Demon student received an early rejection letter even though they requested that their application be evaluated after the October LSAT. Ben and Nathan advise Anonymous to withdraw remaining applications and to follow their GLAD guide to law school admissions.
Episode 365 marks a milestone for the podcast. Listeners can now indulge in an episode of Thinking LSAT every day for a year. Nathan and Ben reflect on some of the hiccups and highlights of their podcasting partnership. Then, they weigh in on a particularly unfavorable early-decision program, debate the merit of a tip for evaluating LSAT answer choices, advise a PhD chemist considering a pivot into IP law, and discuss a host of other topics from the mailbag.
8:04 - BU Bound - Listener “Unbound” shares some information about Boston University’s binding early-decision program, “BU Bound,” which excludes applicants from scholarship consideration. Ben and Nathan think you’d have to be crazy—or crazy rich—to bind yourself to a school in that way.
17:42 - Pearls vs. Turds - “Pick the answer that is hardest to argue against.” Nathan and Ben evaluate Demon student Brad’s mantra as a Pearls vs. Turds candidate. They discuss how it might apply to both passage-driven and answer-driven questions in Logical Reasoning.
24:29 - From STEM to IP Law - An anonymous listener with a PhD in biochemistry seeks a transition from scientific research into intellectual property law. The guys share their thoughts on the best time to take the IP bar exam and encourage Anonymous to connect with actual IP lawyers.
30:55 - Find Your Best Hour to Study - An anonymous listener has raised their practice test scores just by listening to the podcast. Now they’re ready to sign up for Demon Live and ask the guys how to maximize progress. Ben and Nathan reiterate the importance of focusing on accuracy and understanding. One high-quality study hour per day is the first step to success on the LSAT.
37:41 - Bad Grades in a Personal Statement? - An anonymous listener asks whether they should explain poor grades in their personal statement. Nathan and Ben veto this idea and suggest that Anonymous highlight facts in their favor.
44:01 - The Opposite of Our Advice - Listener Alexander recently discovered the Demon and is “shocked.” His former LSAT tutor had given him all contrary advice: He learned not to use real practice tests, to skim passages, and to diagram sentences—even in Reading Comprehension. Ben and Nathan advise Alexander to forget all the shoddy advice and to begin building effective study habits with LSAT Demon.
57:38 - You Don’t Need a Curriculum - Listener Andrew has spent months studying another prep company’s “core curriculum” and hasn’t taken a practice test since his diagnostic. Nathan and Ben insist that solving one actual LSAT question at a time is the only curriculum you need.
1:10:55 - Reaching the 170s - A new Demon student asks how to reach the 170s from their current low-160s range. The guys recommend practicing daily, reviewing explanations, and taking advantage of the Demon’s killer Ask button.
1:16:04 - Screw You, LSAT! (Just Kidding) - Demon student G confesses a newfound love for the LSAT and thanks the Demon team for their help. Keep it up, G!
Ben and Nathan address a myth that rising LSAT scores will make future application cycles more competitive. But first, they kick off a Pearls vs. Turds triple-header with a Bruce Lee quote and consider its applicability to LSAT study. Then, they dive into a mailbag of listener questions on topics ranging from online JDs to offline LSAT study.
2:15 - A Wise Withdrawal - Listener Owen withdrew from the August test because he knew he wasn’t ready. Nathan and Ben encourage him to keep playing the game the right way.
6:12 - Pearls vs. Turds Triple-Header - The guys review a trifecta of listener submissions. They discuss Bruce Lee’s wise words, Tim Ferriss’s thoughts on goal setting, and another prep company’s tips about scratch paper.
16:03 - Higher Scores, Tougher Competition - Nathan and Ben address concerns that increasing LSAT scores will make future admissions cycles more competitive. The guys remind listeners not to compromise their study over fear of an unknowable future.
22:53 - Comparing Types of Law - Student Francesca asks which types of legal practice are more conducive to a healthy, happy lifestyle. The guys suggest that Francesca network with some real lawyers to find out.
26:17 - Online JDs - Listener Sara asks for advice about online JD programs and “need-based” scholarships. Ben and Nathan advise Sara not to put such restraints on where she applies.
32:09 - Praise the Demon, Disrespect the LSAT - Students Zack and Hugh celebrate their improvements and praise the Demon’s intuitive approach. Ben and Nathan explain why “disrespecting” the LSAT is core to their philosophy.
40:49 - Pursuing Politics - Is listener Alexa crazy to leave her job to pursue a career in politics? Nathan and Ben discuss her path to the elite career she envisions.
50:37 - Improving at Reading Comprehension - The guys respond to an anonymous listener’s request for Reading Comprehension tips and highlight the importance of understanding each sentence in the context of the passage.
55:38 - Less Is More in Addenda - Listener Isabelle has a bunch of excuses for an F on her transcript. The guys explain why she shouldn’t mention any of them in her application.
1:02:33 - Don’t Sell Yourself Short - Listener Katie is late to the game but hopes to apply this cycle after taking the September LSAT. Nathan and Ben implore her to set her sights higher.
1:07:07 - Offline LSAT Study - The guys recommend resources to student Kevin, who’ll be without internet for a month.
1:12:04 - Fundamentals? - An anonymous listener who has been studying since May hasn’t yet taken a full practice test. Ben and Nathan discuss why you don’t need to master any “fundamentals" before taking a practice test.
1:22:01 - Early-Decision Dilemma - Listener Emma has a dilemma: Applying early decision may be the only way to ensure a decision before her father passes away. Nathan and Ben feel for Emma but still don’t think it’s wise to rush an application.
LSAC just made Score Preview available to all test takers. Ben and Nathan discuss the change and why it’s inconsequential. As long as law schools care only about your highest LSAT score, there’s no benefit to canceling. The guys also share advice on how to overcome anxious thoughts on the test, warn listeners against the perils of Netflix binges, discuss the rising number of older student borrowers, and remind everyone to chill out.
3:37 - Anxious Thoughts - Ben and Nathan discuss common anxieties among test takers and explain how to set aside anxious thoughts by focusing on one question at a time.
17:55 - Netflix Is Winning - Seen any good TV shows lately? If so, Nathan and Ben don’t buy your excuse that you don’t have time to study. The guys discuss Netflix’s intent to hijack your waking—and sleeping—hours.
23:36 - Score Preview Expanded - The guys comment on LSAC’s recent expansion of Score Preview and discuss whether it has any value to test takers.
31:18 - Take a Break - New student Adriana shares her emotional reaction to the Demon’s meditation feature. The guys remind listeners to relax every once in a while.
34:18 - LSAT Study While in School - An anonymous listener asks for advice on whether to pick up a part-time job while finishing school or to focus on the LSAT. Nathan and Ben worry that Anonymous may be rushing the process. They suggest dropping LSAT study for now to focus on grades.
41:43 - Unusual College Degrees - Hanyang wonders if their unusual combination of degrees in piano performance and sports management will help them stand out in law school admissions. Ben and Nathan reiterate that your LSAT score and your undergraduate GPA matter far more than your major. The guys encourage Hanyang to reconsider their plan to pursue a master’s degree before law school.
47:58 - $329K in Debt at Age 91 - The guys discuss a recent New Yorker article about a ninety-one-year-old former law student who owes $329,000 in student loans. More student borrowers are aging into their debt, not out of it.
53:49 - Listener Mailbag - Nathan and Ben offer rapid-fire responses to more listener emails. They discuss how to review correctly answered questions. They react to Malcolm Gladwell’s podcast episodes on the LSAT. They advise a listener to fire their terrible LSAT tutor. And they caution applicants against revealing too much to admissions officers.
The guys unveil LSAT Demon’s new Law School Rankings page, which charts U.S. News and Above the Law rankings over the years. Spoiler: Rankings are basically worthless for deciding where to go to law school. Plus, Ben and Nathan develop a simple formula for LSAT success, discuss why score “plateaus” don’t actually exist, and give advice on writing addenda.
1:29 - Law School Rankings - Nathan and Ben discuss the Demon’s Law School Rankings page, which illustrates the extreme variability in law school rankings from year to year. The evidence is clear. Rankings are bullshit.
7:06 - A Formula for LSAT Success - Dr. Joel Furhman says Health = Nutrients / Calories. If nutrition can be reduced to a simple formula, then why can’t the LSAT? Ben proposes a formula: LSAT Success = Clicks / Time.
10:41 - Plateaus Don’t Exist - Can listener Jacob overcome a score plateau, or has he reached his LSAT peak? Nathan and Ben worry he’s looking for an excuse to stop pushing. They discuss why plateaus don’t really exist and how to measure your progress in “clicks” of understanding.
20:24 - Demon Lessons from a Redditor - Ben and Nathan review a Reddit post that summarizes their teachings. They agree with most of it but clarify some points on their world-building approach to Logic Games and on the shortcomings of categorizing Reading Comprehension passages in abstract terms.
38:37 - Get a Job - Listener Pablo wants to move out of his parents’ house and jumpstart his life as an adult. The guys think that’s a bad reason to go to law school. Want to move out? Get a job.
44:31 - The LSAT Is Your Priority - What should listener Jay prioritize during his gap year before law school? Nathan and Ben remind him that he has only one priority: the LSAT. They also recommend The Law Career Playbook, by Rachel Gezerseh, as a guide to networking with lawyers before, during, and after law school.
54:00 - Don’t Chase Fantasies - Ben and Nathan worry that listener Heather’s high school fantasy of what lawyers do has compromised her decision-making. They counsel her to stick to her current successful career.
1:02:28 - Addressing Withdrawals - Thomas crushed the LSAT but worries that two years of withdrawals on his undergraduate transcript will raise eyebrows. The guys discuss how to address the issue in a way that highlights Thomas’s accomplishments.
1:10:08 - Obstacles in Addenda - Alyssa has overcome major obstacles in her life and wonders how to address them tactfully in a GPA addendum or supplemental essay. Nathan and Ben advise her on which details to include.
1:16:14 - Apply Next Cycle - Sheldon’s practice scores are below his goal. Ben and Nathan suggest that he withdraw from the August LSAT and apply next cycle. They suspect his “goal score” is interfering with his performance on the test and remind him to play the game at his own speed.
How much should rankings influence your decision about where to attend law school? On this week’s episode, Ben and Nathan rebrand their “100% rule” as the “2x rule” for law school rankings. The name’s changed, but the rule is the same: When comparing one school to another, you shouldn’t consider their rankings unless they differ by twice as much or more. The guys also discuss how to study like a top scorer, advise a struggling student not to let the LSAT dominate their life, and write a GPA addendum.
4:37 - Yield-Protection Worries: Demon student Anna’s GPA and LSAT score are so high that she worries her top-choice school might waitlist her for yield protection. Ben and Nathan recommend that Anna visit the school to demonstrate her genuine interest and ties to the community.
16:27 - The 2x Rule: Ben proposes a new name for the 100% rule for law school rankings: the 2x rule. Follow this rule when comparing law schools. Rankings should influence your decision to choose one school over another only when they differ by twice as much or more.
18:37 - Getting to the 170s: Listener Hasaan has improved substantially from his diagnostic score and wonders whether he can make it to the 170s. Nathan and Ben’s advice? Start studying like someone who scores in the 170s. Forget the clock, focus on accuracy, and trust that speed will follow.
26:32 - Oracles of Common Sense: LSAT Demon student Ola finally understands Logical Reasoning and compares Ben and Nathan to Greek oracles. Are their teachings oracular insight, or just common sense?
28:06 - Follow Through with Something New: Anonymous is a self-described “serial studier with no follow-through” who’s been studying off and on for six years. Lawyers don’t lack follow-through, the guys note. They suspect that Anonymous might’ve been using bad prep materials and recommend trying LSAT Demon for a month. If it doesn’t start to click, Anonymous may want to reconsider law school.
31:41 - The LSAT Shouldn’t Dominate Your Life: Listener Robert describes his LSAT woes. Despite prep courses, a tutor, and 10 weeks of full-time study, his score hasn’t improved. His friends and family tell him to quit. Should he heed their advice? Ben and Nathan suggest some radical changes to Robert’s approach.
46:29 - Be a Big Fish: LSAT Demon student Kash wonders whether earning a high class rank at a less-competitive school might serve him better than attending a top-ranked school. Nathan and Ben reiterate the benefits of attending the highest-ranked law school you can go to for free. They also discuss a 2010 Above the Law article about Shell Oil’s tiered ranking system for evaluating job applicants.
57:18 - Ben Writes a GPA Addendum: Ben demonstrates how to write a short GPA addendum that focuses on the facts and doesn’t make excuses.
Law school can leave you with a lifetime of debt if you aren’t careful. On today’s episode, Nathan and Ben discuss a cautionary tale of a recent law school graduate who is $347k in student debt and can’t find a job. He thought that attending law school would set him up for a comfortable future. Instead, he’ll likely be in debt for the rest of his life. The guys implore listeners not to make the same mistake. Don’t pay for law school. They also answer a full mailbag of listener questions about how to structure your study schedule, whether testing accommodations are fair, and how high-scoring students achieve a deeper understanding of the LSAT.
As always, if you like the show and want to get more from the Thinking LSAT community, check out the links below. You can connect with other folks studying for the LSAT and get more useful resources from Nathan and Ben.
4:16 - Pearls vs. Turds
9:23 - Ideal Implementation Granularity
13:00 - Advice for High-Scoring Students
21:11 - Are Accommodations Fair?
28:06 - Balancing a Study Schedule
37:58 - Tautology
40:00 - Advice for Non-Native English Speakers
46:26 - Value Zero
56:47 - From 157 to 180
58:11 - Stuck in the 150s
1:05:24 - Can I Improve by 40+ points?
1:13:16 - Don’t Expect Law School to Be Interesting
1:19:28 - Unemployed and $347k in Debt
1:24:40 - Some Friendly Bad Advice
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