Stay ConnectedBen Olson and Nathan Fox started the Thinking LSAT Podcast to become better LSAT teachers and have some fun. Please 1) subscribe, 2) rate and review, and 3) send us questions: help@thinkinglsat.com. Don’t pay for law school!
Learn more at lsatdemon.com
Copyright: © Nathan Fox and Ben Olson
Your mind is awesome. Harness its power by training yourself to focus on what you choose. Today, Ben and Nathan extol the benefits of meditation as a way to reclaim control over your attention. Also on the pod, the guys emphasize the importance of understanding the passages in Reading Comprehension rather than simply trying to memorize facts. They explain why you should always plan to retake the LSAT. And they implore listeners not to let sunk costs guide their decision-making.
0:00 - LSAT Swagger - Confidence is key on the LSAT. Register for Nathan’s upcoming free class to learn how to approach the test with swagger.
4:10 - Remembering vs. Understanding - Listener Caleb shares how a mid-test epiphany unlocked his confidence in Reading Comprehension. Ben and Nathan encourage listeners to focus on understanding rather than memorizing RC passages.
15:23 - Always Retake - LSAT Demon student Conner lost focus during the April LSAT when he encountered an issue with his remote proctor. Nathan and Ben encourage Conner to retake the test. Just as lawyers exhaust all possible arguments to defend their clients, test takers should exhaust all possible attempts to achieve their best scores.
28:10 - Online vs. In Person - Several listeners share their opinions on the in-person test option for the 2023–2024 cycle. Ben and Nathan think that your test environment shouldn’t matter if you’ve mastered the LSAT. They recommend meditation and mindfulness practice as a powerful way to sharpen your focus.
42:56 - Academic Credibility - The guys assure listener E that an applicant’s GPA matters far more than the “academic credibility” of their degree. They advise E to remain brief and factual in any academic addendum.
50:26 - Pearls vs. Turds - Listener Greg’s previous Pearls vs. Turds submission was judged a turd. Now he’s back with another potential pearl from his work as a police officer. Will Nathan and Ben ride along this time?
55:34 - Diagnostic Test - An anonymous listener asks whether they should begin with a cold diagnostic test or just start drilling. Ben and Nathan don’t think it matters as long as Anonymous starts practicing real LSAT questions and thoroughly reviewing their mistakes. Don’t get trapped by analysis paralysis when planning your LSAT prep.
1:12:56 - Forget Sunk Costs - After two years of studying, listener E is nowhere near their target score. E wants to throw in the towel and take the June test. Nathan and Ben implore E not to let a sunk cost cloud their judgment.
1:22:31 - GPA Appeal - Listener S shares how persistence paid off in appealing their GPA with their undergraduate institution.
1:28:40 - One Question at a Time - Listener Nick has his sights set on the T14 and big law, but he’s unsure how to boost his LSAT score into the 170s. Ben and Nathan point Nick back to the Demon way: focus on one question at a time.
You are online 24-7. The client is always right. “I don’t know” is never an acceptable answer. These are a few of the “non-negotiable expectations” of an attorney working in big law. Nathan and Ben react to a leaked training slide that recently went viral for showing how big-law associates are expected to devote their lives to their jobs. Later, the guys consider reasons for liking a particular law school when all law schools are basically the same. They distinguish between effective and ineffective approaches to reviewing Reading Comprehension. And they explain what they mean when they say, “Don’t pay for law school.”
4:22 - Big Law Expectations - Listener Michael shares a leaked list of “non-negotiable expectations” for associates at a big law firm. Ben and Nathan recommend that anyone with big-law aspirations take note of this glimpse into their future.
22:31 - Conditional Scholarships - Nathan and Ben suggest resources for investigating different schools’ conditional scholarships. You can avoid inferior scholarship offers altogether by applying early and broadly with your best LSAT score.
27:57 - Why Like a Law School? - Ben and Nathan think law schools are all pretty much the same. So what are some reasons for liking a particular law school? The guys discuss three factors: cost, location, and big-law placement.
35:52 - Reviewing RC - An anonymous LSAT Demon student feels that their improvement in Reading Comprehension has stalled. Nathan and Ben urge Anonymous to actively review their mistakes rather than passively watch video explanations.
48:47 - Reapplying - An anonymous listener asks whether they should revise their personal statement when reapplying. Ben and Nathan redirect Anonymous to focus on what really matters: their LSAT.
54:02 - Pay for Law School? - Listener Justin contemplates a conditional full ride to Hofstra versus an unconditional 95% scholarship to Albany. Nathan and Ben doubt that a conditional scholarship is worth the risk. The guys explain the nuance in their mantra “don’t pay for law school.”
58:41 - Online J.D. Programs - Listener Noora is exploring fully online J.D. programs like the one offered by St. Mary’s Law. Ben and Nathan see great benefits to such programs as long as the price is right.
1:06:57 - Should I Take the September LSAT? - The guys encourage an anonymous listener to take the LSAT multiple times and not to latch onto a particular application cycle.
1:10:16 - Application Deadlines - Listener Michael shares an email from UF Levin with a funny typo.
In-person testing is back. Beginning with the August 2023 LSAT, test takers will be able to choose between taking the LSAT at home or in person at a test center. Nathan and Ben weigh in on the announcement. Later, the guys extol the virtues of “inbox zero,” give advice on how to approach a delicate LOR request, and diagnose the likely cause of a listener’s disappointing application cycle.
1:09 - In-Person Testing - The guys react to the announcement that LSAC will resume administering the LSAT at in-person test centers for the 2023–2024 testing cycle. Beginning in August, test takers will have the choice of whether to take the test at home or in person.
12:09 - Inbox Zero - Ben and Nathan explain the purpose behind LSAT Demon’s Review Inbox feature and advise students on how to approach their review. The guys also praise the “inbox zero” approach to email management.
21:57 - Make the LSAT Fun - Demon student Bella has learned to love the LSAT after previously struggling with other prep companies. The guys view Bella’s progress as the natural outcome of the Demon’s commonsense approach.
26:35 - Should I Keep Going? - Listener Aly has mastered Logic Games but feels stuck in the other sections of the test. Should she keep studying or accept that she’s reached her limit? Nathan and Ben suggest ways to continue improving in Logical Reasoning and Reading Comprehension.
31:55 - Applying for Accommodations - Listener Isidora can’t apply for accommodations until she registers for an actual LSAT, but she doesn’t feel ready to take the official test. Ben and Nathan advise Bella to register and change her test date later if she needs to.
36:08 - A Risky LOR Request - Listener B worries that asking their current boss for a letter of recommendation might threaten their job security. Should B hide their law school plans from their employer? Nathan and Ben suspect that B is overthinking things.
44:38 - Comparing Scholarship Offers - Ben and Nathan compare listener Niki’s scholarship offers from a handful of schools in California. The guys encourage Niki to consider applying more broadly.
1:00:36 - Bluebooking with GhatGPT - An anonymous listener shares their negative experience using ChatGPT for citing legal sources. Nathan and Ben hold that, despite the chatbot’s current imperfections, AI is sure to have a profound impact on many lawyers’ jobs soon.
1:05:57 - What Did I Do Wrong? - Demon student G is confused by the results of their application cycle: a bunch of rejections and waitlists at schools where G expected scholarship offers. Ben and Nathan share their suspicions on where G went wrong.
Too much note-taking stymies understanding. Today on the show, Ben and Nathan discuss how to study effectively for a skills-based test like the LSAT. Hint: spend less time taking notes and more time engaging with the material. They also answer listeners’ questions about undergraduate versus graduate GPAs, LSAC fee waivers, and more.
4.14.2023 — April LSAT begins
4.25.2023 — June LSAT registration deadline
5.3.2023 — April LSAT scores released
6.9.2023 — June LSAT begins
6.28.2023 — June LSAT scores released
0:00 - Upcoming Free Class
Register for Ben’s free Reading Comprehension class on April 17.
1:48 - We’re Hiring
LSAT Demon is looking for former students who scored above 170 and are interested in teaching. Email help@lsatdemon.com with a screenshot of your official LSAT score and a video of you teaching a question or logic game.
2:59 - Don’t Pay for Law School - Listener Anthony writes in with good news: he took Ben and Nathan’s advice and will be going to law school for free. Congrats, Anthony!
12:19 - Fee Waivers and Graduate GPAs - An anonymous listener shares information about LSAC’s fee waiver timeline. The fee waiver kicks in when you get approved, not when you sign up for a test. Anonymous also asks about their graduate GPA and whether it will make their UGPA look better. It’s a soft factor, but it might be a point in your favor.
19:06 - Take Practice Tests in the Demon - A student emailed the Demon help team to ask why Law Hub and LSAT Demon calculated different scores for the same practice test. Law Hub uses an outdated scoring scale from when the test had four scored sections. Ben and Nathan advise Demon students to take their practice tests in the Demon.
24:29 - Is Note-Taking Effective? - Listener Jeff asks if he should start taking notes while he’s drilling. The guys assure him that taking notes isn’t necessary. Don’t fall into the trap of using note-taking as a crutch. Focus on real understanding. They clarify that it might be helpful to some students and offer advice on how to take notes effectively.
34:35 - There Are No Second-Best Answers - Jeff also asks about his self-diagnosed habit of picking commonly chosen wrong answers on Logical Reasoning questions. Ben and Nathan point out possible selection bias that occurs when students focus only on what they get wrong. They emphasize the power of prediction to solve the problem.
37:08 - Lawyers Ask for Special Treatment - Listener Will asks if he should contact his undergrad institution to request that they change some of his grades. The guys assure him that it’s worth a shot if he can make a convincing case for himself—the worst they can say is no.
41:50 - Listener Book Recommendation - Listener Molly writes in with a book recommendation endorsed by Ben and Nathan: Way Worse Than Being A Dentist: The Lawyer's Quest for Meaning, by Will Meyerhofer.
48:56 - Valuable Work Experience - Listener Sarah has 11 years of work experience as a paralegal. Still, she has concerns about her UGPA. Ben and Nathan recommend that she focus on her strengths, not her weaknesses.
55:10 - The LNAT Versus the LSAT? - Listener Peyton asks about law schools outside the United States and the Law National Aptitude Test. The guys think the LNAT sounds highly comparable to the LSAT.
58:12 - Personal Statement Feedback - Listener Sam wants to know if the guys plan to critique more applicants’ personal statements on the podcast before the next application cycle. Ben and Nathan encourage students looking for support on their personal statements to work with Leslie at LSAT Demon.
1:02:26 - ChatGPT’s Effect on Lawyers - Listener Ashwin asks for Ben’s and Nathan’s thoughts on how ChatGPT and other AI will affect the legal profession. The guys think AI will have a significant impact on many professions.
Novice LSAT students often sign up for test dates before they’ve even started studying. Today on the show, Ben and Nathan explain why it’s a mistake to register for the LSAT prematurely. They share the correct order of operations for deciding when to take the LSAT and apply to law school: (1) study for the LSAT, (2) sign up when you’re happy with your practice score range, and (3) apply with your best LSAT score on record, at the beginning of the cycle. Plus, the guys answer listener questions about LSAT Writing, GPA addenda, scholarship negotiations, and more.
0:00 - Don’t Register Until You’re Ready - The June LSAT registration deadline is coming up. But the test isn’t going anywhere. Ben and Nathan encourage listeners to register for an official LSAT only when your practice scores indicate that you’re ready to take the test.
1:38 - Don’t Rush Into Law School - An anonymous listener asks if applying to attend law school after undergrad will put them at a disadvantage compared to applicants who gain work experience before applying. Ben and Nathan maintain that everyone should take the time they need to get their highest LSAT score.
19:53 - Your Negotiation Power - An anonymous applicant asks for scholarship negotiation advice. Ben and Nathan share the most important factor in negotiation: your willingness to say no. As long as you’re willing to walk away, there’s always room to negotiate.
26:52 - UGPA Application Addendum - An anonymous listener asks for advice on how to write an addendum. Ben and Nathan caution applicants against making excuses. Put your best foot forward on your law school applications by highlighting your strengths, not your weaknesses.
36:20 - LSAT Writing Is Unscored - Listener Todd wonders what he should do to prepare for the writing portion of the LSAT. You can watch a Demon lesson and complete the LSAT writing portion online as soon as it’s available.
42:11 - LSAT Order of Operations - Listener Michael signed up for the LSAT before he started studying. The guys discuss why Michael, like many novice students, went about his LSAT journey in the wrong order. Students should begin studying for the LSAT first. Then, when you’re happy with your practice score range, sign up for the next official test date.
51:50 - Take the LSAT as Soon as You’re Ready - Student Aiden has been using the Demon for only two weeks and is currently scoring in the upper 150s. Nathan and Ben are confident Aiden can reach the 170s. They encourage him to take the test when he’s ready—which might be sooner than he planned.
56:58 - Don’t Lie on Your Resume - An anonymous listener is considering fudging dates of employment on their resume. Is lying worth the risk? The guys first note that March is way too late to apply to law school. Anonymous shouldn’t be applying now, and they shouldn’t lie on their resume when they apply in the future.
1:03:43 - Law School Employment Outcomes - Listener Pranav asks if he should avoid law schools with low employment outcomes. Employment outcomes are largely a function of the students’ merits, not necessarily the schools themselves. Going to a lower-ranked school and kicking ass will make you more likely to succeed than the average student.
1:12:56 - Get a Job - Anonymous is choosing between studying for the LSAT and a master’s program. Nathan and Ben suggest a third option: do neither. Get a job, and start earning money. You should take time to figure out what you want to do. Law school will always be there if you want to revisit it later.
1:18:53 - Don’t Apply Before You’re Ready -
Listener Jackson graduates next year and wants to apply to law schools this fall. He already took the LSAT before he was ready. Ben and Nathan advise him to push his application cycle.
Fixating on a goal score can be counterproductive. The only way to improve on the LSAT is to focus on understanding one question at a time. Today, Ben and Nathan offer listeners advice on topics ranging from finding study motivation to overcoming a low UGPA using the LSAT as your not-so-secret weapon. Plus, a couple of pre-law lovebirds wrote into the show this week, and the guys try their hand at relationship advice. They’d rather you go for the happy relationship than end up star-crossed attorneys in debt.
Watch Episode 394 on YouTube
0:00 - When Should You Quit? - An anonymous student is looking for guidance after they believe some barriers kept them from achieving a higher LSAT score. The guys weigh in with their thoughts on whether this student should work to raise their LSAT score or cut their losses and choose a different career path. Bottom line: Don’t take the official test again until you’re ready.
6:52 - Set Smaller Goals - Listener Christopher tells Ben and Nathan that he signs up for official LSAT test dates to stay motivated. The guys offer advice on how to study effectively and how to know when you’re ready to sign up for the official test. Don’t squander your limited attempts at the official LSAT—take it only when you’re happy with your practice test score range.
19:43 - Focus on Your Successes, Not Your Failures - Listener Jason asks Ben and Nathan how to explain that his grades dropped during the year that Covid forced classes online. The guys’ advice: Focus on positive facts about your stats—get the highest LSAT score you can, and don’t blame your undergrad institution for your lower grades.
28:37 - LSAT Scores Stay on Record for Five Years - Listener William is committed to going to law school only if it’s free. But he won’t be applying for four more years. Is it too early to start prepping for the LSAT? Ben and Nathan let William know that he’s doing everything the right way, but he should read the fine print on LSAC’s website or talk directly to a representative at LSAC to get the answer to this question.
32:02 - Lovebirds in Law School - An anonymous couple applying to law school together ask Ben and Nathan if they should take full-ride offers at a lower-ranked school or pay for the prestige that comes with attending a higher-ranked school. They share their dreams of being a law-school power couple, and the guys caution them about the road they’re about to embark on.
43:01 - Law School or Love? - An anonymous listener shares a Reddit post asking whether to write an addendum for low stats on law school applications. Anonymous says he’s limited to school in Los Angeles because he wants to be with the woman of his dreams. He’s worried that a subpar LSAT and UGPA will keep him from his betrothed. Ben and Nathan suggest that the woman of your dreams is more important than going to a bad law school with low stats. They advise Anonymous to give up the law dream for now and go get the girl.
50:47 - Speed Reading Isn’t Reading - Demon teacher Kevin shares a motivational quote that he found relevant to studying for the LSAT. Ben and Nathan agree. You can’t “speed read” and actually comprehend everything you’re reading.
52:26 - Do Soft Factors Help? - Listener John writes in to ask if his “soft” factors will help him overcome a low UGPA on his law school applications. The guys tell John that the best way to overcome a low UGPA is to get the highest LSAT score you can get. A T-14 school might not be attainable with his UGPA, but a high LSAT will give him the best shot.
59:13 - Demon Student Admissions Update - An anonymous former Demon student shares their stats and their current law school admissions results —including scholarship offers that came in even higher than expected. Ben and Nathan congratulate Anonymous and remind listeners that hard work pays off.
The law school tuition system is broken and unlikely to change. Ben and Nathan discuss the why and the who behind the inequitable pricing and double down on their advice to listeners: Don’t pay for law school. Also on the pod, the guys assess LSAT Demon’s compatibility with specific testing accommodations, evaluate the likelihood of a 30-point score increase, weigh in on the idea of postponing graduation to boost your UGPA, and encourage listeners to look to the future rather than focusing on past failures.
4.14.2023 — April LSAT begins
4.25.2023 — June LSAT registration deadline
5.3.2023 — April LSAT scores released
6.9.2023 — June LSAT begins
6.28.2023 — June LSAT scores released
1:04 - Focus on What You Can Change
5:51 - Mistakes as Motivation
10:43 - One Step at a Time
17:06 - Accommodations and the Demon
22:03 - Read Every Answer Choice
28:42 - Play How You Practice
34:38 - The System Is Broken
1:02:51 - Will the Ranking Shakeup Affect LSAT Weight?
1:15:13 - Is Increasing From the 140s to 170s Possible?
1:22:13 - ChatGPT’s LSAT Score
Read more on our website!
LSAT Demon acolytes know that we slow down to speed up on the LSAT. But this mantra is not an invitation to focus on speed. Slowing down is not an end in itself, nor is it sufficient for LSAT mastery. On this week’s episode, Ben and Nathan remind listeners why we slow down: to better engage with the passage so we can make predictions and dismiss wrong answers quickly. Later, the guys tell a listener to stop planning applications while still in school. They shoot down a strategy to combat LR “brain fog.” And they assess claims of a prestigious university’s discrimination against applicants with mental health issues.
0:00 - Upcoming events - Nathan and Ben promote two upcoming events: their free class for parents of LSAT students and an LSAT Demon meetup at the New York LSAC Law School Forum.
6:06 - Slowing Down - Since he began slowing down on his practice tests, listener David has increased his accuracy—but not his scores. Ben and Nathan assure David that speed will come naturally as he learns to make good predictions and dismiss wrong answers quickly.
14:47 - Stop Making Plans - Nathan and Ben advise an anonymous undergraduate student not to let thoughts of law school be a distraction. Anonymous should focus on their grades and plan their applications later.
27:41 - Practice-Test Anxiety - Madison scores lower on full practice tests than on individual timed sections. Is test anxiety to blame? The guys suspect that Madison might be falling into a common trap: worrying about the whole test when she should be focusing on one question at a time.
33:46 - Pearls vs. Turds - An anonymous student proposes a dubious strategy for dealing with “brain fog” at the end of Logical Reasoning sections: do the first half of the section, then jump to the end and work backwards.
41:14 - Mental Health Discrimination - Nathan and Ben review an essay by a former Cornell faculty member who claims that the school discriminates against applicants with mental health issues. The guys suspect that some law school admissions officers may be similarly biased.
50:07 - Withdrawing Applications - The guys advise listener Brayden on how to withdraw applications.
53:10 - Should I Take the April LSAT? - Perry isn’t sure that he’ll be fully prepared for the April test. Should he still take it to max out his attempts before the fall? Ben and Nathan see both sides of the argument, but they think that Perry might want to keep a final attempt available for next year.
56:58 - Scores Decreasing - Nathan and Ben assure an anonymous student that score fluctuations are just part of the process. Anonymous should stop worrying about their scores and focus on understanding the questions they get wrong. The guys also tell Anonymous that reading more slowly in RC isn’t enough: they’ve got to find a way to care about the passage.
Ben and Nathan assess whether attending a regional school may prevent you from finding work in a more competitive market. The guys double down on their advice to apply broadly even if you’re set on attending law school in a particular location. They also consider whether earlier PrepTests are easier than more recent ones, investigate an elite law school’s URM bump, and shake their heads at the ABA’s continued attempts to eliminate the standardized testing requirement.
2:59 - Pearls vs. Turds - Listener Owen shares some LSAT tips from lsat-center.com. Ben and Nathan detect some turds and implore listeners to reject LSAT gimmicks.
21:19 - Regional Law Schools - An anonymous listener was offered a full-tuition scholarship plus a stipend to attend the University of Iowa. But Anonymous worries that attending a regional school will prevent them from finding work in a competitive market, like Washington, D.C. Nathan and Ben recommend connecting with Iowa alumni who’ve followed similar paths.
28:34 - Apply Broadly - Listener Heidi wants to attend law school in a particular region. Should she still apply broadly, even to schools she wouldn’t attend? Ben and Nathan say yes. By applying broadly, Heidi can better judge her value to law schools and keep her options open.
31:25 - Are Early PrepTests Easier? - Listener Jack was shocked to score 177 on PrepTest A (an official LSAT from 1996) after weeks of scoring in the 160s. How much should Jack read into this score jump? Are earlier PrepTests easier? Nathan and Ben tell Jack not to overthink a single data point and to keep learning from his mistakes.
36:08 - URM Bump - The guys resolve a question about the URM bump in the LSAT Demon scholarship estimator.
42:07 - ABA Tries to Eliminate LSAT Rule - The ABA will try yet again to eliminate the standardized testing requirement for law school admissions. Ben and Nathan remind listeners that law schools will continue to use the LSAT even if they aren’t required to do so.
Nathan and Ben read the story of an applicant who improved his LSAT and received a full-ride scholarship offer from a school that had rejected him last year. The evidence mounts: every LSAT point is worth at least $10,000. Also on the show, the guys examine a Logical Reasoning question written by ChatGPT, explain how Loan Repayment Assistance Programs work, and encounter one of the turdiest Pearls vs. Turds submissions of all time.
0:00 - Parents’ Night - On March 9 at 7pm ET, Nathan will host a free class for parents so they can better understand the law school admissions process. Parents can register at lsatdemon.com/classes using their kids’ accounts or by creating their own Demon Free accounts.
3:44 - ChatGPT - What happens when you ask ChatGPT to write an LSAT question? Ben and Nathan review a Logical Reasoning question from the chatbot that misses the mark. Then they read a personal statement penned by ChatGPT. It’s not pretty.
14:59 - Scores Going Down - Demon student Kaitlyn feels that the more she studies, the worse she gets at the LSAT. The guys suspect that Kaitlyn is reading too much into a small sample size and encourage her to focus on one question at a time.
21:50 - Pearls vs. Turds - Nathan and Ben encounter an especially bad piece of LSAT advice. They implore listeners to cut the gimmicks and practice like they’ll play on the official test.
28:36 - Live Class Schedule - Demon student Colt asks how best to schedule his time with Demon Live classes. Ben and Nathan recommend picking one class every day or two and leaving plenty of time for self study.
33:46 - LRAPs - Nathan and Ben break down law schools’ Loan Repayment Assistance Programs. The guys tell listeners to do their research and to be extremely careful with such programs, which may simply kick debt further into the future.
50:09 - From Rejection to Full Ride - An anonymous listener shares a story of an applicant who improved their LSAT score and received a full-ride scholarship from a school that had previously rejected them. Ben and Nathan see this as further proof that every LSAT point is worth $10,000, sometimes more.
1:01:41 - Getting Off Waitlists - Listener Brad wonders if a better score on the April LSAT could help him get off the waitlists at several T14 schools. The guys tell Brad to withdraw his applications and reapply next cycle with a better LSAT score. If he follows that plan, Brad should have scholarship offers in hand by the end of 2023.
1:08:44 - An UGPA Miracle - Listener Kash convinced their old school to convert their Fs to Ws, saving their 3.9 GPA from dropping to a 3.3.
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