The Voices of War

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49. Dmytro Gurin - The view from Ukraine Mar 13, 2022

Show notes

Today, I spoke with Dmytro Gurin, who is a currently serving Member of Parliament in Ukraine. Dmytro is originally from Mariupol, the besieged city in South-eastern Ukraine that is capturing global headlines, where he has spent his childhood and where he went to university. In the past, Dmytro has also spent more than a decade living in Moscow and is very familiar with Russian political and media machinations.

He joins me today, just after midday on Sunday, 13th of March, Eastern European Time, to discuss the evolving Russian invasion of Ukraine. Some of the topics we covered are:

Current situation in Ukraine
Change of Russian tactics to target civilians
General Russian orientation towards Ukraine
The reality faced by Russian troops
Life in the besieged city of Mariupol
Western predicament and possible ways forward
What Ukraine needs from the West
Possible scenarios inside Russia
Difference between Ukrainian and Russian armies
The state of the Ukrainian nation

48. MAJGEN Mick Ryan: On the Russian invasion and his recent book ’War Transformed’ Mar 06, 2022

Show notes

My guest today is MAJGEN Mick Ryan, who only days ago officially retired from more than 35 years of service in the Australian Army. During this time, he has deployed on multiple overseas deployments, has commanded troops at platoon, squadron, regiment, task force, and brigade level, and among the many awards for service and excellence he has received, in 2008, Mick was also awarded the Order of Australia for distinguished leadership of the Australian 1st Reconstruction Task Force in Afghanistan.

He is a recognised expert in leadership, institutional strategy, technology, organisational adaptation and change management, institutional reform, as well as personnel development. Mick is also a prolific writer and speaker, with a particular focus on thinking about and preparing for the battlespace of the future.

This is also what his recently published book is all about. It is titled ‘War Transformed: The Future of 21st Century Great Power Competition and Conflict’ and is a deep dive into how four key disruptors, namely geopolitics, demographics, technology, and climate change, will impact great power rivalry. In short, Mick explores how the dynamics of the nascent fourth industrial revolution and its interplay with the ongoing changes in the way we live as well as dramatic shifts in global affairs will transform tomorrow’s wars.

He joined me today to talk about his book and how it relates to the ongoing Russian invasion of Ukraine. Some of the topics we covered are:

Nature vs. Character of war
Russian vs. Ukrainian Information Operations
Why Putin is fundamentally losing, so far
The role of surprise in this invasion
Re-emergence of Europe
Russian military deficiencies
Two principal decisions Ukraine is facing
The importance of time in the current war
Importance of leadership in war
Critical role of logistics
Impact of the Russian invasion on China
Are ‘our’ wars, different to ‘their’ wars?
21st Century as showdown between Democracy vs. Authoritarianism
Lessons learnt from the Russian invasion

You can find out more about MAJGEN Mick Ryan here. I also recommend you follow his Twitter page (@WarintheFuture) for regular updates on the current crisis and beyond. Lastly, you can view and purchase his book 'War Transformed: The Future of 21st Century Great Power Competition and Conflict' here.

47. Arne Dalhaug and Wolfgang Sporrer - On the War in Ukraine Feb 27, 2022

Show notes

This episode was recorded at 1000h CET on 27 Feb 2022.

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Today, I spoke with Arne Dalhaug and Wolfgang Sporrer, both of whom I recently interviewed independently about the crisis in Ukraine (links with longer bios below). Arne is a retired three-star Norwegian Army officer, who also served as a senior officer in NATO and, more-recently, as a senior leader at the OSCE in Ukraine. Wolfgang is currently an Adjunct Professor at the Hertie School in Berlin and was recently the head of the Human Dimension Department of the OSCE in Ukraine.

They join me today to discuss the invasion, current crisis and possible future outcomes. Some of the topics we covered are:

Reason behind Putin’s ultimate invasion
Influence and importance of social media
Narrative control in Russia
Zelenskyy and his communication skills
Russian military and its failures to date
Impact of sanctions and financial measures
Energy sector and Nord Stream 2
China’s orientation towards the invasion and Russia
Other strategic tensions influencing the current situation
Putin’s options from here

You can find more-extensive biographies of both guest in our previous discussions below:

Special Release: Lieutenant General (Ret.) Arne Bård Dalhaug: On the current Russia/Ukraine crisis

Special Release: Wolfgang Sporrer - Providing nuance to the crisis in Ukraine

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If you like what you hear, please consider liking and reviewing the show wherever you get your pods. You can also support the show on our Patreon and Buy Me A Coffee page on the links below:

Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thevoicesofwar

Buy Me A Coffee: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/thevoicesofwar

46. Marc Garlasco - War through the eyes of a Pentagon Chief of High Value Targeting Feb 21, 2022

Show notes

My guest today is Marc Garlasco, who began his career as the Chief of High Value Targeting at the Pentagon between 1997 and 2003 where he led targeting teams during operations Iraqi Freedom, Desert Fox, and Allied Force. Marc later worked in senior roles at Human Rights Watch, the United Nations, and the Centre for Naval Analyses.

Throughout his time, he has worked in Afghanistan, Gaza, Georgia, Iraq, Israel, Kosovo, Lebanon, Libya, and other conflict zones. He is a co-author of the ICRC report on Explosive Weapons in Populated Areas, and a co-host of the excellent The Civilian Protection Podcast that tells the story of those harmed by war, but whose voices are rarely heard.

Marc is currently the military advisor at PAX, the largest peace organisation in the Netherlands and works to protect civilians against acts of war, to end armed violence and to build inclusive peace. Some of the topics we covered are:

Marc’s journey into targeting
Developing a picture of Iraq
9/11 and (absence of) link to Iraq
Deliberate vs dynamic targeting
The failed targeting of Saddam
Why targeting fails
Incentives vs intelligence
Impact of ‘humane’ war
How a Collateral Damage Estimate (CDE) is conducted
Reconciling the fact that not all lives are worth the same
Use of drones and accuracy of battle damage estimates
Changing policy to reduce civilian harm
Building bridges between NGOs and the military
Impact of our wars on soldiers fighting them

Marc and I discussed The Civilian Protection Podcast, of which he is a co-host. You can access all episodes of this excellent project here.

Marc also mentioned the upcoming release of a US Department of Defence Memorandum, to be signed by the Secretary of Defence, that will direct the development of a comprehensive plan to mitigate and respond to civilian harm. That memo has now been released and is worth reading. You can find it here.

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If you like what you hear, please consider liking and reviewing the show wherever you get your pods. You can also support the show on our Patreon and Buy Me A Coffee page on the links below:

Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thevoicesofwar

Buy Me A Coffee: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/thevoicesofwar

45. Introducing 2022 Feb 16, 2022

Show notes

This is a short introduction to what's in store throughout 2022 on The Voices Of War. As you will hear, the show finally has a Patreon and Buy Me A Coffee page. Please take the time check out the links below and support us if you are able to do so. Every little bit helps to grow the show.

Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thevoicesofwar

Buy Me A Coffee: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/thevoicesofwar

Thank you and I hope you enjoy The Voices Of War throughout 2022.

Maz

44. Special Release: Wolfgang Sporrer - Providing Nuance To The Crisis In Ukraine Feb 02, 2022

Show notes

My guest today is Wolfgang Sporrer, who is an Adjunct Professor at the Hertie School in Berlin. He used to be the head of the Human Dimension Department of the OSCE Special Monitoring Mission in Kyiv, where he lead the civilian aspects of conflict management and facilitated and promoted dialogue between the opposing sides.

Before that, he was the head of the international oil and gas company OMV's representation in the Caspian region, where he spearheaded regional efforts to promote the Southern Gas Corridor for the EU.

Previously, he served as the Head of the Europa House of the European Commission in Baku/Azerbaijan and as the Head of the Democratisation Department of the OSCE Presence in Albania. He also served as a political adviser in the EU delegation in Moscow and in several functions for the OSCE in Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina and Kosovo.

He joined me to discuss the ongoing crisis in Ukraine. Some of the topics we covered are:

Wolfgang’s background in conflict zones
Defining the conflict
Inner Ukrainian tensions
Ukraine/Russia bilateral relations
East/West dimension
Headlines vs. reality
Irrationality of a possible Russian invasion
Interests of President Biden and President Putin
The absence of a united EU position on Russia
A possible way out
Challenges to overcome

43. Special Release: Lieutenant General (Ret.) Arne Bård Dalhaug: On the current Russia/Ukraine crisis Jan 27, 2022

Show notes

My guest in this Special Release episode is Lieutenant General (Ret.) Arne Dalhaug, who during his extensive and distinguished career served at the highest levels of the Norwegian Armed Forces, the Norwegian Ministry of Defence, as well as NATO. His several final postings in uniform as a three-star general include serving as the Chief of Defence Staff/Deputy Chief of Norwegian Armed Forces, as the Norwegian Military Representative to the NATO Military Committee, and as the Commandant at the NATO Defense College. After retiring from the military, Arne served for three years in a senior management position for the OSCE in the non-government-controlled area in eastern Donbas in Ukraine. Arne now works as an independent expert on NATO, Russia and conflicts in the post-Soviet domain.

During our conversation we covered topics such as:

Origins of the Ukraine/Russia conflict
Reasons behind President Putin’s current actions
NATO and whether its actions have contributed to the crisis
The likelihood of an actual military invasion
Russian political vs military aims
Impact of the media on the current crisis
NATO cohesion and current posture
Assessment of the most-likely way forward

During the conversation, we discussed an excellent article from the Kyiv Independent, which you can read here.

You can find Arne's extended military biography here.

42. Special Release: Mark Willacy - On ‘Killing Field‘ and ‘Rogue Forces‘ Dec 23, 2021

Show notes

Today, I spoke with Mark Willacy, the journalist behind the ABC report ‘Killing Field’ as well as the recently published book ‘Rogue Forces: an explosive insiders’ account of Australian SAS war crimes in Afghanistan’. Even though I stated that I will recommence publishing new episodes on the 21st of February 2022, I am releasing this one as a Special Release as I feel that the contemporary relevance of this conversation warrants it. As you will hear, some of the topics Mark and I covered include the intent behind his journalism, his initial exposure to war and conflict in the Middle East, how ‘Killing Field’ and ‘Rogue Forces’ came about, the people who approached him, impact of the environment on our soldiers, impunity of politicians and much more.

On a personal note, this was by far the most difficult interview I have conducted because of the highly volatile and close-to-home subject. All I ask of my audience is that they take heed of my opening remarks before diving into the interview. This is an important topic that we need to talk about and do so respectfully.

Lastly, you can see my recently published article that I mention here.

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Full show notes:

My guest today is Mark Willacy. Mark has been a journalist for more than 25 years and has reported for the Australian Broadcasting Corporation, Australia’s national broadcaster, from more than 30 countries. Mark is a seven-time Walkley Award winner and in 2020 he was awarded Australia’s highest honour in journalism, the Gold Walkley, for exposing alleged Australian SAS war crimes in Afghanistan. His winning Four Corners report ‘Killing Field’ made headlines around the world and sparked a federal-police war crimes investigation. Mark’s investigations provided evidence for 12 cases named in the Brereton Report, the independent Australian Defence Force inquiry into war crimes in Afghanistan between 2005 and 2016. Earlier in his career, as the ABC’s Middle East correspondent for four years, Mark also reported on the ground from the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and the 2003 war in Iraq. He was also the Japan correspondent in 2011 when the country was hit by its most powerful earthquake in more than a thousand years. Mark has twice been named Queensland Journalist of the Year and in 2019 he won a Logie Award for his Four Corners’ world exclusive on the Thai cave rescue.

Mark has authored several books, including ‘The View From the Valley Of Hell’ a book about his time in the Middle East in the early 2000s, ‘Fukushima’, which is an account of the 2011 earthquake and the twin catastrophes of the subsequent tsunami and nuclear meltdown. And more recently, he published the book ‘Rogue Forces: an explosive insiders’ account of Australian SAS war crimes in Afghanistan’. He joins me today to discuss this last book, how it came about and its impacts.

Some of the topics we covered:

Marks entry into investigative journalism
His time in the Middle East in the early 2000s
Motivation behind extreme violence in the Middle East
Lessons learnt about human nature
First encounters with the Australian SAS in Iraq
How ‘Killing Field’ and ‘Rogue Forces’ came about
Why Mark released the book when he did
The sources of information for Mark’s book
Impact of the environment on our soldiers
Impunity of politicians
Current state of the media
Narratives surrounding Mark’s book
Mark’s response to Heston Russell’s recent public complaint
The way forward

Lastly, you can see my recently published article that I mention here.

41. My reflections on the first year of The Voices Of War Dec 13, 2021

Show notes

In this final episode of 2021, I take a few moments to reflect on the origins of the show, the guests I've had the pleasure of interviewing, some emerging themes, what's in store for 2022 and to give a few important thanks to those who have made the show possible.

We will return again on 21st of February 2022. Between now and then, I will be reposting a few of my favourite episodes that didn't get as much attention as I had hoped they would.

I wish you all a safe festive season and a happy New Year!

Much love,

Maz

40. Samuel Moyn - On ‘Humane: How the United States Abandoned Peace and Reinvented War‘ Dec 07, 2021

Show notes

Today, I spoke with Samuel Moyn, who is the Henry R. Luce Professor of Jurisprudence at Yale Law School and a Professor of History at Yale University. We discussed his latest book, Humane: How the United States Abandoned Peace and Reinvented War, published in September this year. As you will hear, I found this book to be of immense importance and hope that its contents get attention far and wide, most notably amongst those who send us to war.

Some of the topics Sam and I covered are how the idea of humane war entered our collective conscience; the role the war in Vietnam had in a pivot towards humane war; abdication of diplomacy for the ‘cleanliness’ of war; the traps of the Just War doctrine and its selective interpretations; the role of lawyers in making war ‘just’; impact of 9/11 on making war more ‘humane’; future dangers and much more.

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Full show notes:

My guest today is Samuel Moyn, who is the Henry R. Luce Professor of Jurisprudence at Yale Law School and a Professor of History at Yale University. He has written several books in his fields of European intellectual history and human rights history, including The Last Utopia: Human Rights in History (2010), and edited or coedited a number of others.

His most recent books are Christian Human Rights (2015), based on Mellon Distinguished Lectures at the University of Pennsylvania in fall 2014, and Not Enough: Human Rights in an Unequal World (2018). His newest book, published in September this year, is titled Humane: How the United States Abandoned Peace and Reinvented War, and will be the focus of our conversation today.

Over the years, Samuel has written in venues such as the Boston Review, the Chronicle of Higher Education, Dissent, The Nation, The New Republic, the New York Times, and the Wall Street Journal.

I recently finished his latest book, Humane, and to say that it was a perspective-altering read would be a huge understatement. It is a deeply insightful and undoubtedly controversial book, and I hope it gets the global attention it deserves. For that very reason, I am truly humbled to have hosted Sam on the show. Some of the topics we covered include:

Sam’s introduction into the field of human rights
The genesis of humane war thinking
Outlawing war vs. humane war
Distinction between pacifism and being anti-war
Vietnam and the focus on the conduct of war
How ending conscription helped perpetuate humane war
Trade of diplomacy for humane war
Importance of 9/11 in evolution of humane war
The issue of terrorists and ‘associated forces’
The role of lawyers in making wars ‘just’
Jus in bello and it’s illusions
Ongoing trajectory of ‘safe’ and ‘clean’ war
Potential dangers of ongoing humane war

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