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Episode 201 Lucy's Big Babies Sep 14, 2022

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Big babies can come out of vaginas! During her first pregnancy, Lucy was told that she had a macrosomic baby. She was pressured into an induction which ultimately led to a C-section. Her baby was just over 8 pounds. Lucy later learned she was closed up with internal staples and only glue on the outside. Her incision popped open not long after surgery, she developed an infection, and she spent her first few weeks of motherhood traveling to the hospital to get her incision packed. The second time around, Lucy refused to take no for an answer. Though she stayed with the same hospital practice, Lucy equipped herself with an amazing VBAC doula and lots of VBAC Link education. She trusted the birth process and her team, safely delivering a 10-pound, 2-ounce baby!Additional linksAussie Doula5 Tips to Deliver a Large Baby Vaginally BlogBaby Weight Prediction and Third Trimester Ultrasound Blog5 Steps to Get Your Partner on Board with VBAC BlogHow to VBAC: The Ultimate Prep Course for ParentsFull transcriptNote: All transcripts are edited to correct grammar, false starts, and filler words. Meagan: Hello, everybody. Guess what? We are doing an impromptu episode today. This is our friend, Lucy. You’re listening to The VBAC Link and we can’t wait to hear her story. We are going to talk about big babies. We hear it all the time. Big babies. “I can’t have a vaginal birth because I have big babies” or “My pelvis is too small.” But she is here to share her story with you today and let you know that big babies can come out of vaginas. That is the big statement today. Big babies can come out of vaginas. Review of the WeekMeagan: I’m going to hurry and read a review, and then we will jump into her story. This is from bjmg104 on Apple Podcasts. It says, “This podcast is empowering and positive. As a home birth transfer turned Cesarean, this podcast has been so instrumental in helping me shed the shame and sense of failure I have been feeling since my son’s birth. Armed with the knowledge gained in this podcast, I now feel more confident than ever in my next pregnancy. VBAC is possible for me. Thank you for this podcast.” Well, thank you, bjmg104 for sharing your review. Lucy’s StoryMeagan: Okay, Lucy. We are jumping right in. I am going to turn the time over so you can have all of the time to share your story about big babies. Tell us about it. Tell us about your experience. Lucy: Oh my goodness. You know, I see all the time “big babies, big babies” and from 18 weeks pregnant, the second pregnancy now, I was told all the time. They would measure my belly and they would say, “You know, he’s measuring two weeks ahead. He’s measuring two weeks ahead.” Part of me was like, “Well hopefully, he’s big like one of his Uncle Nicks,” because I have an Uncle Nick, my brother-in-law, and an Uncle Nick, my brother, and I was like, “Maybe he’ll just be a big dude.” It’s okay. My mom had 10-pound babies so I was like, “I think we’ll be okay.” But obviously, I was really, really hopeful for my VBAC and I left my previous practice after my first birth because my first birth was something that was just really, really traumatic to me. It didn’t go at all the way that I had planned. It really came down to me just even talking to myself and my husband and us looking at ourselves and saying, “Being educated is just such a big thing.”I remember from the day that I found out I got pregnant, I would go on walks every day with my daughter and I would listen to The VBAC Link. I would say, “These women know what the deal is.” They are educated. They understand what’s going on. They’re empowering themselves. I was like, “You know? I’ve heard so much about doulas.” I didn’t really know if a doula would be for me. I talked to a couple of different companies and I found Aussie Doula here in Charlotte. I spoke to Helen and she said, “You have to meet Raquel. She’s my VBAC queen.” I was totally swept away after meeting Raquel. My husband and I joke because Raquel has that spiritual vibe to it where she really centered me, but then she also had a voice for me. From the beginning, Raquel helped me make that decision and stand up for myself from those appointments where maybe you don’t want a cervical check right in the beginning because anything can happen. That’s kind of what I’m going to share. I don’t know if I need to touch at all on my first experience with my firstborn. Meagan: Yeah, feel free. Feel free.Lucy: So with my first, I was pregnant. I had a really healthy pregnancy, with not one issue whatsoever. I was the girl that people didn’t really want to talk to when they asked me how my pregnancy was. I was like, “It’s really rainbows and butterflies. That’s how it is. It’s great.” People were like, “Ugh. Not even morning sickness?” I was like, “Literally nothing.” So I was told that I had a macrosomia baby. I really trusted my doctor. I had been with that practice for five years. He was like, “Listen, if you don’t do an induction, you’re basically asking for a C-section.” I didn’t know who to ask. I wasn’t part of the different groups online, so I just trusted. At 39 weeks and 2 days, I went in on a Thursday and I got induced with Cervadil and Cytotec for two days. I was completely zero dilated. Nothing was happening. On Saturday, they hit me with Pitocin, then about 30 minutes later, my water exploded. I still wasn’t dilated.Then, I got an epidural at 6 centimeters and I just plateaued. During that time, I got a fever and an amniotic fluid infection. Everything that could go wrong was going wrong. I remember from the first night on Thursday, a doctor walked in and said, “You know, we don’t have to do this.” He goes, “You could just have a C-section and you don’t have to go through this pain.”At the time, I laughed it off, but in hindsight, I was like, “He was so not supportive and that should have been my red flag from that moment.”Meagan: Yeah. Lucy: But I really trusted the process. He was someone at the practice I didn’t know and I had never met. Turned out that he was the guy who did my C-section on Sunday. So that Sunday when I had my C-section, I started to feel a lot of things and a lot of pressure down there. I don’t really do great medically when it comes to– everything grosses me out. Towards the end of my C-section, I was hollering. Josephine came out, my daughter, and she wasn’t really crying or doing anything. That’s another sign to me that she wasn’t ready, you know? She didn’t have her full time to be ready and do what she needed to do and my body needed to do for her to have the birth that also she deserved. I was closed up in a way that really wasn’t grand to me. I had internal staples and outside, I had only glue. I say this because I’ve empowered so many of my friends already to just know, “How are you closed up in the case that maybe you do have a C-section?” It’s something that many of us don’t talk about or think about because we are like, “Well, a C-section won’t happen to me.”Well, after a three-day filled induction, you can only imagine how swollen I was. By the time we got home on Tuesday, I popped my incision open. My top layer. I ended up back in the ER. Meagan: Oh man. Lucy: It was awful. We got home Tuesday. Thursday, that happened. So in the hospital, they swabbed me for COVID. I’m positive for COVID, so now I’m like, “Well, the world’s ending, surely.” So then I have an infection in my uterus. I need antibiotics. They want to admit me for three days and I’m just like, “I can’t.” If you want to put a woman into postpartum depression who is surviving it and getting through it, take her away from her baby for three days and put her in the hospital. I was like, “I can’t physically do that. Not mentally.” I just had this sweet little girl that I want to be next to. I want to have my moments with her and my husband so I was like, “There’s just no way.”Thankfully enough, I was given antibiotics, but I did have to drive all the way to uptown which is 30 minutes from where I live in Fort Mill, South Carolina, and have my incision packed every two days by the doctors because it needed to close up. It was just such a nightmare. For five good weeks, I looked at my husband and I was like, “Maybe we’re only child kind of people.” We come from big, Greek and Italian background families and I always thought I wanted four kids. I was like, “I just don’t think I could ever go through that again.”The time passed and like all women, we forget our trauma. So then the time came when we were like, “Let’s add to the mix.” I’m more educated. I’ve been reading a lot on this. Things are possible. Just because I had a C-section doesn’t mean that I am now married to that. I had family that still lives in Greece and even my aunt was like, “Well, now that you had that, that’s all you can ever have.” I was like, “No, that’s not true. I’m going to show the world that that’s not true.”So when I got pregnant, I looked for a practice that was supportive. I went on The VBAC Link and I just got on Facebook and I read about different doctors. I went to this one practice in Charlotte at around my 18-week appointment. I was told that at 40 weeks to the day that I would have a C-section. I asked, “Why?” He said, “That’s what we do with all women.” I said, “Well, I’m not all women. My name’s Lucy and I have a unique medical history. I’m me and my own pregnancy.” He said, “That’s just not the risk that this practice takes.” I said, “Well, I’ve heard that Pitocin is safe. Foley bulb if necessary. There are other mechanisms and other things that we can do.” He said, “That’s just not something that we are willing to do.” I said, “Well, going back to our first visit and our other conversations, you’re not VBAC supportive then. You’re barely VBAC tolerant.” He said to me, “Well, I’ll give you my suggestion, and then worst case scenario, you just don’t come to the hospital.” I said, “Well, I’m not here for that worst-case scenario. I’m here to fully trust in my doctors and my provider.” I said, “So that’s just not the option that I’m looking for.” He responded with, “Well, we’re going to part ways. Better sooner than later.” So that was my hint. I came home, looked at my husband, and said, “The one appointment you didn’t come to.” I was like, “Everything hit the fan.” I was like, “No way.”So I reached out to my old doctor, Dr. Graham, who had left the OB part of the practice and stuff. She had gone on her own to a different practice and I said, “Who do you recommend?” She said to me, “There’s a great doctor at Midview OB/GYN. His name is Dr. Gibbons.” So my husband and I made an appointment. We went out there and we spoke with him. From the first second that I sat there, he said, “Macrosomia baby? Why is this on your chart? She was 8 pounds, 4 ounces.” He said, “This is irrelevant.”Meagan: Ahh!Lucy: He said, “There is no practical reason that you had a C-section.” I said to him, “Thank you. That’s exactly what I’m saying.” I said, “I’m just here for a fair chance.” He talked to me and he said, “If it does end up in a C-section, I don’t want you to think that you failed.” I said to him, “By no means if that’s how the ending happens and I have a healthy baby and a healthy mama, that’s not how I’m going to feel.” I said, “However, I do want the full experience, the full opportunity to be able to have a trial of labor and achieve my VBAC.” From there on, every time we met, he would talk about the size but he never told me that the size meant that I needed to get that baby out. So as things progressed in my pregnancy, I would hear a lot that he was large. Around 40 weeks, I had an ultrasound. I also had one at 36 and they said that he was big. And then I had one right at 40 weeks to the day which was two Thursdays ago. The ultrasound tech was the sweetest. I loved seeing her at this one location. She measured him and he measured in the 97th percentile. Then she did one whole measure again, everything, and she goes, “I’m getting the same exact number.” She’s like, “I just feel so confident that he’s 97%.” I said, “Okay, great. Thank you.” She said, “He looks healthy. The amniotic fluid is healthy.” I was like, “Great.” So then, Friday, I went in to the doctor– so I guess earlier in the week on Monday, I just decided that I would have a membrane sweep, but I was only 1 centimeter dilated. I was 50% effaced. I didn’t really know if doing that was for me. I hadn’t had one check my entire pregnancy and every time I said, “No,” it was a question when I went to the doctor. It was, “Would you like to be checked?” I said, “No, thank you.” And then that was the end of the conversation which was perfect to me. I will stop and just say one day I was having some pain. I want to say that I was early 30 weeks pregnant. I went to an urgent care OB here in Charlotte and it just so happened that my doula was in the area so she went with me. When I got there, I was having some pain. That’s why I went. The nurse practitioner opened the door and she said, “Go ahead and undress from the waist down. You’re in labor.” As she closed the door, my doula went, “Is that what you would like?” The lady opened the door and just looked at me. I said, “No, that’s not what I would like and frankly, you don’t even know the color of my hair. How would you even know that I’m in labor?” I said, “What I would love is for you to come in and have a conversation with me and if we feel the need to do something, we will be on the same page.” She goes, “Well, I am going to have to mark your chart that you declined it.” I said to her, “Do what you’ve got to do.” At this point, I said, “But I would appreciate it if you could come in and you could feel my belly. We could just talk through it.” She just had the worst attitude the whole time and then when the ultrasound tech came in, she did a scan and she was so sweet. She was showing me the baby and she was like, “Look, everything looks great here,” and blah blah blah. I was just so thankful that she brought me back down. I’m not one to leave a review, but I made sure. I was like, “I want the world to know that if you are going to come here, you’re going to have to have a voice,” and then I realized there was a theme at that urgent care that you really didn’t have a voice when you went in. I was so thankful that Raquel was with me, my doula, to help me have that first experience of standing up for what I wanted in my birth plan and in my pregnancy. That’s why I thought it was such a big deal when I would go to a Midview OB/GYN that it was just a question of, “Would you like this?” So around 39 weeks when I had my first sweep, 39 and a few days, I had that ultrasound and I saw Dr. Gibbons on Friday prior to going into labor. At that point, I was 1.5 centimeters and he did a sweep. I had actually lost a lot of my mucus plug during that sweep. He just said to me, “Well, the goal is to go into labor naturally. That’s what we’re going to keep saying.” That was really it. He didn’t tell me my baby was big or I needed to get him out. That night, I started having contractions all night every eight minutes for hours. The next day, they were gone. I was like, “Oh no, was that not real? What’s going to happen now?”Of course, the later you get in your pregnancy, you’re like, “I really want to go into labor. Is this going to happen for me?” So on Sunday, I was 40 weeks and 3 days. Around 6:00, contractions started happening again every ten minutes. I hung out on my yoga ball. I walked around. We went for a walk in my neighborhood. Around 9:00 p.m., I was like, “Okay, it’s time to lay down and relax.” I lay in bed and they kept getting closer and closer and closer, but they were still more than five minutes apart, and then around 12:25 a.m., I felt a pop. I was like, “That’s got to be my water.” So I stood up and sure enough, it was my water. I called Raquel and she said, “I’m going to come by the house first” because the goal was not to get to the hospital too early as…

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200 Episodes with JULIE! Sep 07, 2022

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Meagan welcomes Julie back today to celebrate 200 episodes of The VBAC Link podcast! They celebrate this milestone with a special live Q&A podcast recording session joined by followers of The VBAC Link Facebook community. Topics include: how to talk to your provider, all about Spinning Babies, adhesions, managing sciatica pain, induction, nipple stimulation to induce labor, VBAMC, C-section consent forms, and much, much more.We can’t wait to continue sharing new episodes with you as we stay committed to our mission of making birth after Cesarean better!Additional linksSpinning Babies websiteThe VBAC Link Blog: Pumping to Induce LaborFear Release YouTube VideoEpisode 18 Leslie’s HBAC + Special ScarsJulie’s InstagramThe VBAC Link Community on FacebookHow to VBAC: The Ultimate Prep Course for ParentsFull transcriptNote: All transcripts are edited to correct grammar, false starts, and filler words. Julie: Welcome to The VBAC Link podcast. This is our 200th episode and yes, you are listening to Julie. I’m back just for this episode and probably some more in the future at some point, but we are so excited, Meagan and I, because this is the 200th episode. We are now live in our Facebook group. Not now when you are listening to it, but right now in this moment in our timeline. It took us way too long to get in here live, but we are doing a Facebook Live podcast episode. We have never done that before and we probably will never do it again because this was kind of traumatic.Meagan: Yeah, this was a little rough, but that’s okay. Now that we know, now that we know, we are good. We’re good. Julie: Now we know.Meagan: It just took 34 minutes to figure it out. Review of the WeekJulie: Oh my gosh. Cool. So, let’s get started first. There is a Review of the Week. Meagan, are you ready? Do you have one?Meagan: Yep, I do. This is from blpinto and it’s from Apple Podcasts. It says, “Wonderful resources for ALL moms, not just VBACs.” It says, “I didn’t have a C-section for my first birth, but I had a traumatic experience with a forceps delivery and an induction that was not at all what I was looking for. I started listening to the podcast before I even got pregnant a second time to prepare for a better experience. Julie and Meagan were a huge part of my process and journey. I ultimately had a beautiful home birth and a 10-pound, 6-ounce baby. I felt this podcast helped me overcome my fear that I couldn’t push my baby out without help because many VBAC moms had the same feeling.”I love that. I don’t know many first-time or second-time moms who haven’t had previous C-sections that have listened and left a review. So that was awesome. We truly believe that this is also a podcast for everybody. Just like wonderful Brian says at the beginning of this podcast, it’s for all expectant parents who want to avoid a Cesarean and want to learn their options and learn what’s happening out there. So that is so exciting that we had someone who hadn’t even had a C-section before. If you know someone who is expecting and has fear or maybe a first-time mom who has some doubts and problems and traumatic experiences in birth, definitely share the podcast. These stories are amazing for all to listen to. I would 100% agree with her.Julie: I love that. Do you remember years ago when we first started and we were trying to figure out how we could make something, maybe not separate, for first-time parents? We were like, “How do we get first-time parents to understand that these are things they need to know?” Because you didn’t. I didn’t. As a first-time mom, I didn’t even think about a C-section until the doctor said, “We need to do a C-section,” and we never really got very far with that because the focus of The VBAC Link is a vaginal birth after Cesarean. Yeah, so we love that. We, I say “we”. I will always say “we” talking about The VBAC Link. Meagan: Literally, just earlier today, I was recording a podcast and I was like, “we”. I mean, “I”, but Julie is just over here. Julie: My spirit and presence exist in the VBAC realm.Meagan: Yes. But it’s so much fun. It’s so fun to be here and I’m excited. If you guys haven’t had a chance or if you are watching live right now, we would love your reviews. Love, love, love your reviews. You can send us an email. You can write right here and I will copy it over and put it in the reviews. We are excited to dive in today on episode 200!Q&AJulie: Yeah. All right, all eight people who are watching. I guess one of those is me and maybe you, so six. Six people. Drop your questions. Nothing is off-limits. We are going to talk about everything you want to know. Everything you want to hear. We are going to get down and dirty with everything VBAC, wives, and kids. If you want to know what Meagan’s kid is doing right now in the background, we will talk about it. Meagan: Yeah, drop your questions. I’m posting here letting people know that we actually are live now. Julie: Oh heavens. VBAC: Where do I start?Meagan: Yes. It’s so funny. I keep looking on the wrong forum. Okay, who do we have in here? Who do we have? Kathryn, Jen, and AJ thank you so much for being here. Let us know your questions. I want to maybe start off just on VBAC options. We had someone write in yesterday and was like, “One, I didn’t know VBAC was an option. I didn’t even know what it was.” So that’s wonderful that they’re starting to find out that VBAC is an option, but let’s talk about how we can have a conversation about VBAC being an option with a provider. That’s just random, I know. But what would you think, Julie, if you’re starting to discover VBAC, learning what it is, feeling like you want to feel it out, maybe you want to learn more about it and do it, how would you suggest approaching your provider?Julie: Oh man, that’s a great question. First of all, we’ve got some good questions coming in too so I’m excited to answer these. Provider, honestly, I would just ask where their thought process is. I would approach them and say, “Hey. this is what I’m considering. What are your thoughts about it?” And I will tell you what. No matter what their response is and no matter what ultimately your birth plan is, you’re going to get a really good feeling for how your provider feels about body autonomy, informed consent, and birth in general because if they answer and say, “Oh, well I don’t think you are a great candidate. I don’t do VBAC. I don’t support them,” or anything that’s very sounds set in stone, so, “I don’t do this. We won’t let you do that. We would have to look at this and make sure your percentage is high,” or whatever. Anything that is set in stone shows you that your provider is not as supportive of other options or your provider has a very set way of doing things and may not be a good choice for you. But if they answer and say, “Yeah. We can consider VBAC as an option. Let’s talk about some things about what your goals are. I do VBACs a lot. I love VBACs” or anything like that with a more open or a more fluid answer is going to let you know that your provider is going to not only be good with whatever outcomes that you choose but is also very open to having the parent or the mother be part of the birth process and be involved in the decisions regarding their care. That’s really what you want to have on your side no matter what type of birth you’re having or where you are giving birth. You want to have a provider that is going to be open to your input, be a little flexible, a lot flexible based on what your needs are and the type of birth you want, and is able to accommodate that. Meagan: Yeah, and just that’s willing to have that conversation because a lot of providers don’t honestly come out and say, “Hey, do you want to have a TOLAC?” which is a trial of labor after a Cesarean. That may be something that you have to take charge of and say, “Hey. I’m learning about this. What are your thoughts? How do you feel about it? Tell me about some experiences.” We always talk about open-ended questions but really, truly if you can ask an open-ended question, you’re going to be able to get more information than a “yes” or a “no” or an, “Oh yeah. Sure,” versus, “Yeah. I feel really comfortable with that. We do that all of the time. This is why.” So I love that. I know it was a random question, but a lot of people are asking, “How do I even approach this topic with my provider?”Okay, are you ready? I’m going to read some questions. We’ll bounce back and forth. Julie: Yes, let’s do it.What is Spinning Babies?Meagan: So Ms. Kathryn says, “I just found your podcast last night.” Yay! And now you’re here on the first live one. It says, “Bingeing ever since. What is Spinning Babies? I’ve heard it talked about a lot on the podcast.” Spinning Babies is a wonderful resource. They have all sorts of circuits and tips and tricks on ways to navigate babies through the pelvis. Breech positions, so if you have a breech baby, they have positions and exercises to do that. We’ve got posterior. We talk and they also do baby mapping to help figure out where your baby is. Julie: Belly mapping. Meagan: What did I say? Julie: You said “baby mapping.”Meagan: Baby mapping. I meant belly mapping. Julie: They’re the same thing.Meagan: That’s what I meant. Baby mapping. I almost said it again. Belly mapping to help you figure out where your baby is. They can educate on if a baby is posterior, what types of things to do and what to do if a baby is asynclitic or comes over the pelvis, and what tips and tricks you can do. A lot of doulas are really educated in Spinning Babies. It is so awesome. So awesome when the client, don’t you think, is educated in this and they are familiar with it. Julie: Yeah. Meagan: So obviously, we talk about it a lot in the podcast, but we really encourage people to check out their website. They have updated their website and it’s really quite great now. It’s really friendly to navigate, so check it out. It can be a game changer. I have had positions in labor where things were just hanging out, stalling, not really going anywhere, and then we have done a Spinning Babies technique and boom, that baby rotates and labor is speeding along. Julie: Yeah, I love that. I think one thing that I really like about Spinning Babies too is that it puts less emphasis on babies being in this specific position and it creates more emphasis on creating room and space in the pelvis.Meagan: Balance. Julie: And with the connective tissues and yes, balance and all of those things because sometimes, babies need to enter into the pelvis in a little bit what you would call “less than optimal.”Meagan: “Less than ideal”, yeah. Julie: But as long as baby has enough space and room to wiggle and progress through the pelvis in the way it needs to, then you’re going to have a great, not a great, that’s a bad promise. You’re not going to have a great labor necessarily, but you’re going to be able to encounter less problems that are created by a poorly positioned baby or tissues that might be more difficult to move and things like that. So yes, balance, space, and flexibility. Do adhesions impact fertility?Meagan: Yeah, absolutely. Okay, let’s see. AJ Hastings. “Do adhesions really impact fertility? Currently trying to conceive for seven months and was told by acupuncture that I need 12 months of weekly treatments. I definitely want another opinion.” So the short answer is yes it can. It can affect things. In fact, we have an episode and I will go find it here. I’m going to go find it. I’m going to drop it. It’s so weird because we are on Zoom, but we are on Facebook over here. I’m going to drop it in the Facebook group right here because it definitely impacted her. It impacted her and adhesions, depending on how dense and how thick and everything, it can impact fertility. 12 months of treatment? I don’t know. I mean, I’m not a specialist in how intense that needs to be. I have adhesions as well, but I don’t know how dense they are. I was fortunate enough to become pregnant, but it can impact it and it’s something to look into. I don’t think it’s bad to get a second opinion for a whole year of treatments, but I also wonder if scar massage, starting with scar massage by yourself, or going to a pelvic floor specialist and starting there might be beneficial. Julie, what would you think?Julie: Yeah, right along with what you said, it can. That’s the thing. It doesn’t always, but it might. Adhesions, especially ones that are denser or thicker can tug and pull things in the wrong way. They can make it harder for eggs to implant and can cause a whole slew of problems for your overall health depending on the relation to different organs that they might be adhered to. All sorts of things, but it doesn’t always, right? One thing that I would ask my provider that’s recommending that is what other options are available, what other things might be impacting my fertility? Have you seen any other types of providers? Have you seen an OB/GYN or maybe a fertility specialist in that regard or gotten a second opinion from them? Sorry, I think she said. Yep. I’m trying to see that it was told by acupuncture. Yeah, so I would maybe consult another type of provider. But trying to conceive for seven months is kind of a long time, but it also could take up to a year without there being any problems at all for just any random average to get pregnant too. That is just what was going through my mind. Is that the only thing that you are treating and addressing or is it part of an overall care plan? Are you seeing anybody else? That type of thing. Meagan: Mhmm, yeah. And like she was saying, maybe a different provider, maybe a pelvic floor specialist to even just dig into what those adhesions look like or a care provider, but yeah. It can. I’m going to go find it. I was just scrolling, but I’m going to go find it. Do you remember, Julie, do you remember her name? Julie: You’re asking me if I remember anybody’s name?Meagan: I’m the name person. I keep thinking it starts with a J. I’m going to find it though and I’m going to drop it in for you, AJ. Okay, “I just had a VBAC a few months ago and,” awww. “I’m so thankful for both of you.” Thank you, Allison. That’s so sweet. So, so sweet. Julie: Thank you. How to manage sciatica painMeagan: Congratulations! Okay, Jenn. “I’m 39 weeks. My sciatica only allows me to walk for about 20 minutes without cramping. I see a chiropractor twice a week, but other than that, what can I do to help keep my baby in a good position and get labor going?” I would suggest the Miles Circuit right off the bat. Miles Circuit is wonderful. You can do it multiple times a day. There are three circuits and you want to try to do it for a minimum of 30 minutes but sometimes you have to lead up to that. That would be something that I would suggest. Maybe giving it a try. Also, Spinning Babies is very much a balance factor in creating balance.It sounds like your sciatica is not loving you right now and that is hard. That is hard, so being mindful also of being symmetrical and getting out of the car. I know that sounds really weird, but not stepping out with your left. Stepping out with your right. Trying to move out together because that separation with relaxin and things like that can cause the pelvic to shift, which then causes sciatica issues and all of those things. But I would suggest Miles Circuit. I would also suggest a massage. Getting things relaxed and soft because sometimes when things are tense, we’ve got that sciatica issue. Julie, what else would you suggest on that?Julie: Yeah. First of all, I would say that if you are in pain, then don’t do anything. It’s okay to stop. You don’t want to hurt yourself and cause pain, tension, and stress in your body because that could interfere with your natural labor hormones. But honestly, I would think going to a chiropractor twice a week and walking 20 minutes a day is great. I think that’s great to do. If that’s all you can do…

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Episode 199 Lauren's VBAC + PPROM Aug 31, 2022

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“I hope I give you some hope.”All around, Lauren’s stories are different. Her birthing journey includes Asherman’s syndrome, infertility for over 10 years, two rounds of IVF treatments (each with only one viable embryo), a miscarriage, placenta accreta, and significant hemorrhaging after her first Cesarean delivery. Lauren miraculously got pregnant naturally with her second son. She was committed to having a VBAC even with her complicated medical history. When her water broke at 32 weeks, Lauren made her desires known loud and clear to every person who entered her birthing space that a Cesarean was not an option. Sure enough, Lauren was able to successfully VBAC with no signs of placenta accreta or hemorrhaging. After years of so much heartache and holding onto hope, Lauren was finally able to see one miracle unfold after another.Additional linksThe VBAC Link Community on FacebookHow to VBAC: The Ultimate Prep Course for ParentsFull transcriptNote: All transcripts are edited to correct grammar, false starts, and filler words. Meagan: Good morning, good afternoon, or good evening, whatever time it is where you are at, welcome. You are listening to The VBAC Link podcast. This is Meagan and we have our friend, Lauren, today. You guys, she is currently in Vietnam and it is 4:10 a.m. where she is recording. I cannot believe that she is up and ready to record an episode. We are so grateful for her for being with us today. She has a lot of great things in her story, a lot of great things that sometimes we don’t talk about or know of. There’s a certain thing in her story where I hadn’t even ever heard the word before until I saw it in her story. So I can’t wait to dive into her story and have her tell more about all of the things about her story.Review of the WeekMeagan: Of course, we have a Review of the Week so I will read that and we will dive right in. This is from saraalbinger and she says, “One month ago, I had a successful VBAC induction just 18 months after a Cesarean section. I almost called to schedule a repeat on my due date because I was so scared. Then I found your podcast and listened to it for two days straight. It gave me the courage to go through with the induction and I am so glad I did. I hope more people find this as a resource.”She actually emailed us, which is awesome. Congratulations, Sara, on your VBAC. So happy for you. Like I said, she emailed. You can email us your reviews if you would like or if you have a moment, maybe push “pause” really quickly and jump onto your podcast whether it be Apple or Google Play, and leave us a review. We would really appreciate it and again, we always read one on the episodes, so your review might be next. Lauren’s storyMeagan: Okay. Lauren, I’m so excited to have you. Seriously, I cannot believe that you are up. I don’t know if I could get my tushy out of bed at 4:00 a.m. to record a podcast. I’m so grateful. Lauren: It is early. Meagan: Yes, it is so early. Oh my gosh. We just talked about it. You just had a baby not long ago, so you’re not only up at 4:00 a.m. but probably sleep-deprived within those few hours that you did get to sleep. So seriously, thank you so much for being with us today. Lauren: No problem, I’m excited to share my story. Meagan: Well, I’m excited to hear it. I would love to turn the time over to you. Share all of the amazing things. You have had such a journey that has led you here today. Lauren: Yeah. Well, thank you so much for having me. This is a wonderful opportunity for me to go back and remember what has happened to me over the last couple of years. My story started, I feel like, way back when. I was a Montessori teacher and at that point, I knew exactly what I wanted out of my birth at the age of 18 or 19 years old. I wanted a water birth. I wanted all-natural and I wanted to have all my kids by the time I was 25. Anyways, that didn’t happen. I got married. I got married when I had just turned 23. Kids did not happen right away. My 25th birthday was the most depressing birthday I’ve ever had. It turns out I was struggling with some infertility there. At that time, I had sought some, I don’t know. I will tell you that I pondered on it and it just didn’t feel right. The time to take care of our infertility didn’t feel right, so we ended up moving our family abroad. My husband and I taught English abroad, then we came back to America. We just so happened to live in Boston. We had some contacts there, but we felt, I don’t know the right word, we felt very inspired to move to Boston. We didn’t start working on the family thing right away because you have to have insurance for that but on the east coast, they pay for infertility treatment. If you have insurance, it’s covered. I didn’t know that at the time. Meagan: That’s amazing. For real?Lauren: Yes, for real. Meagan: I need to tell my sister who just moved to Boston and is having fertility issues. Lauren: Oh my goodness. Yes, the insurance coverage is amazing. So then I started finding out about other people who had moved there just to get the insurance just to seek infertility treatment. Meagan: Wow, cool. Lauren: Yeah, it was amazing. Exactly. I feel like the right people were put in our path at the right time. They shared the doctors and I was like, “Okay, let me go to your doctor. Okay.” So then pieces started to fall into place to figure out, “What the heck is wrong with me?” I think it had been thirteen years at that point in time of not stopping from having children. Everything was the way it is. So I go and they do this huge check-up on me. My doctors just couldn’t believe the long list of all the crap that was wrong with me especially because I was in my thirties.I ended up having what was called Asherman syndrome. It’s adhesive. It’s scar tissue and they can exist in the cervix or in the uterus. Mine was everywhere. I was 100% scarred over through my cervix and my uterus. It took multiple surgeries to try to remove it. It’s called hysteroscopies. Here’s the miracle here. Asherman syndrome is not well known. It’s still, “Oh, hush-hush.” A lot of women hear the word “adhesive” and that’s exactly what it is. It’s the scar tissue that’s in the uterus and it usually happens after D&C or if you’ve had a miscarriage, there’s a percentage of women who scar over. There are specific doctors out there that will take care of it. One is in Boston and the other one lives in California. I got to see that very specialized doctor and that was just a huge miracle. I felt like I was being taken care of. So we went there and my scar tissue was just so severe. I’m pretty sure I still have it. It’s something that doesn’t really go away, but it was blocking my tubes. That, and we had a diminished ovarian reserve, so my eggs were like I was a 44-year-old woman. I think I was 32 at this time and going through all this. I’m like, “My eggs are old. I’m old.”Then they did a biopsy of my uterus. It showed that it was inactive.Meagan: What?Lauren: It was menopausal. I was like, “So I’ve gone through menopause and here I am.” It turns out that if you don’t have a period for over a year, you’re considered in menopause. I didn’t realize that because I hadn’t had one in seven years at this point. Meagan: Wow. I didn’t even know that either. I mean, I didn’t have a period but I have an IUD, so I’m guessing that’s a little different, right? Lauren: Mhmm, yeah. Meagan: I didn’t know that. Lauren: Yeah, I had no idea. I was learning so much so quickly. There were a lot of emotions. I cried and cried because I felt like my journey of having children was completely over. I had a very slim chance of having a baby and so I was like, “Okay. We’re doing this. I’m jumping head-in.” So I jumped and with IVF, I had only one good embryo out of my first round. It ended up in a miscarriage. It was nonviable and it ended up that it had something wrong with the chromosomes in it. They did some testing. This is where I feel like, “Oh, I had this journey.” Here it comes now. With IVF, they watch you and so after my two-week wait, I had a positive test. Okay. Then, they watch it grow. Mine wasn’t growing, so then I had my ultrasound. They were like, “Oh, this isn’t right. There is no heartbeat. This doesn’t even look right. Whatever.” I’m bawling my eyes out because it’s really hard.They waited an extra week until I was seven weeks when I went in for my D&E. The doctor told me it was because of my Asherman’s that it was going to cause a huge, big problem. So he goes in. He scoops it out. That’s the way I like to think of it. He just scoops it out and he’s done. Lo and behold, my HCG levels were still the same, if not going up. I was still feeling very sick. The next two or three days later, I’m like, “Something is really wrong. Something is really wrong.” I went back and they drew my blood. Come to find out, my levels are still going up. I’m like, “Something is wrong.” I went back to my Asherman syndrome doctor. They did an ultrasound and then they did an in-office, I was wide awake, hysteroscopy. They took little scissors and they tried to go in and take out what they could see. Meagan: What?! This is giving me chills right now thinking about going through that. Lauren: Uh-uh. It was so painful. Meagan: Oh my goodness.Lauren: It was so bad. I’m just bawling my eyes out on this table and they were like, “This is too much.” I was like, “Yeah. This is too much.” I was scheduled for surgery the next day and that’s when I was told about my accreta. That teeny, tiny little sac had grown into my lining. Again, my Asherman’s syndrome was worse than the first time I went, which is saying something. I had a few more surgeries after that one just to clean it up. It took a long time, a lot of hormone therapy, and a ton of estrogen to try to get my uterus back up and running. They called it “jump starting” because I was still not having periods. They were forcing them through medication. Anyway, it was just a crazy time of my life. The second round of IVF was maybe six to nine months later. Again, I only had one little embryo. It turned out to be my son. At the time, we didn’t know the sex of our child until he was born, so it was a really fun surprise. I was so excited. Well, and surely hesitant because you are like, “Oh my goodness, is this going to stick? What’s going to happen?” He stuck and he continued to grow. His percentile growths every ultrasound were still 13% and 15%, so I had a small baby. It always worried me. We got flagged for genetic testing. We got flagged and we got called. It was like, “You’ve got to come in right now. We’ve got to do this ultrasound.” The worry that comes over your face is like, “Oh my gosh.” You just start breaking down and immediately crying. We drove straight to the hospital to do a two-hour-long ultrasound of just laying on the table. They don’t talk to you, by the way, in this clinic. They just look. They look. They look. They look, and then at the very end, they may say something or you have to go to your doctor and your doctor will tell you but the ultrasound tech does not say anything to you.So it’s just nerve-wracking. We ended up seeing a genetic counselor right after who then gave us the results of, “Oh, it’s not anything. You’re fine.” You had a little bit of leakage that could have caused this. It’s not Down syndrome. You’re okay. I was like, “Whew.” So other than that, my pregnancy was pretty normal. We got a doula right away, super grateful for her, and then my baby just wouldn’t turn. He wanted to be feet down. I don’t know how to explain it. He just wanted to be breech. We were doing our birthing classes. I just remember the doula who was doing them was like, “Well,” I don’t know I was probably at 30 weeks. She was like, “Oh, he should really be head down.” I’m like, “Really? At this point, he should really be?” She was like, “Yeah. You really need to get on it more.” I was like, “Okay, I need to get on it.” At that point, I was like, “Okay.” So my doula and I worked on Spinning Babies. I spent so much time upside down every day. I was on an ironing board. I was doing all of these things for Spinning Babies. You buy the stuff. All of the stuff, I bought it. It wasn’t working, so then someone was like, “Okay, you should go to the acupuncturist and do this epoxy–”. I was like, “Okay.” So then I’m burning this thing on the outside of my pinky toe on my right foot for 20 minutes. Meagan: Mhmm. Bladder 06.Lauren: Yeah, but I’m very pregnant, so to bend over for 20 minutes to do one toe and to do 20 minutes on the other toe was excruciating. I did it every morning and every night. I was like, “Okay. This is a lot. I am very dedicated to spinning this baby.” That didn’t work, so I started chiropractic. I started seeing a chiropractor during my last month of pregnancy. I saw her every other day, and then I started seeing her every day. Again, nothing, and then I just got this gut feeling. It was, “Your baby’s going to be born the way he needs to be born. You just need to accept that and you need to go with it.” When that happened, it just clicked in my brain. I was like, “Okay. I can still have a birth plan for a Cesarean. I can still do this and that’s okay.” But that switch when you have planned something and you believe in something so hard– to make that switch in your brain, it’s so difficult. I still was holding hope that somehow this baby is going to flip. They wanted to try an inversion at 37 weeks. I was like, “No,” because they were like, “If you spin the baby in the hospital and it works, then you are having a baby. If it doesn’t work, you are still having a baby.” I was like, “Oh, then I’m waiting.” I’m very grateful. So we went in on my scheduled day with my big, long list of everything I wanted for my Cesarean which was wonderful. My doctor was very supportive and she made sure everything on my list got crossed off. I got to completely watch my baby being born, the surgery, and everything which was really unique for me. I didn’t realize I was going to get emotional about my little Oden. Anyway, I just remember laying there and having my surgery. My husband was right beside me and my doula was also in the room with her essential oils. He comes out and it was announced that he was a little boy. He gets cleaned up. My husband goes over. My husband gets to do skin-to-skin with him. It was such a beautiful birth. It’s like, I don’t regret it at all. I’m just like, “I did everything I could.” Once you see that little baby, he was just, oh wow. He was on my husband’s chest and he was rooting and making rooting noises. My doctor and everyone in the room just stopped. They were like, “We’ve never seen this before.” We’ve never seen a baby come out Cesarean and literally be banging his head on a chest wanting the breast. I knew right away. I was like, “That’s my baby. He’s hungry. He knows where it’s at.” My doula was really excited. So anyways, I remember at this point that my doctor mentioned something about blood. “Oh, there’s a lot of blood,” but I was dismissive because I had this cute baby over here rooting. It wasn’t even until after I was in recovery and I started breastfeeding that my doctor came in and told me that I had hemorrhaged. I had an MFM who specialized in accreta and percreta and all of these things because I was just so worried that if I had a seven-week sac that stuck to my uterus, then what is it going to look like at full-term? I had done all of this research and I was prepared to lose my uterus with this birth. It didn’t happen. I just felt so blessed. I felt so blessed that I got to keep it and that my child was born at full term. I just remember, “I can’t wait for baby number two.” Anyway, I enjoyed this birth so much and him so much. The hemorrhage only added to my list. I had forgotten about it until baby number two and then it starts adding on, right?Okay, miscarriage, baby number one, baby number two comes and I really wanted my V…

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Episode 198 Dr. Betty DeLass with Reborn Pelvic Health & Wellness Aug 24, 2022

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“Being pregnant in general is the biggest musculoskeletal change of your entire life.”Having a baby changes your life in the best ways. It also takes a huge toll on your body.Pelvic Floor Physical Therapist, Dr. Betty DeLass, tells us how her treatments help women resolve issues like leaking, prolapse, movement restriction, adhesions, endometriosis, fertility, hemorrhoids, pelvic pain, and so much more. She helps clients not only get back to their previous activity level but also far surpass it!Run to your local pelvic floor PT or take advantage of Dr. Betty’s out-of-state options to get the personalized care YOU need. It may take time, but we promise that you don’t have to feel the way you’re feeling forever. Additional linksReborn Pelvic Health & Wellness WebsitePelvic Rehab Practitioner DirectoryPelvic Guru - Pelvic Health ResourceHow to VBAC: The Ultimate Prep Course for ParentsFull transcriptNote: All transcripts are edited to correct grammar, false starts, and filler words. Meagan: Hello, this is Meagan with The VBAC Link and we have a wonderful episode for you today. We have a great friend. Her name is Betty. She is actually local here to Salt Lake City, Utah and she is a pelvic floor specialist. Seriously, you guys. It’s going to be a good one. Just hearing her speak, I feel like she’s reading from a book. There’s so much education in her mind. I feel like she is just reciting this book because she uses all of the right words and just makes sense. I can’t wait for you guys to hear more about the pelvic floor and all of the things that go into prepping for a VBAC, how we can help things after a VBAC, and even we are going to talk a little bit about infertility. Review of the WeekMeagan: Of course, we have a Review of the Week, so I’m going to read that, and then we are going to jump right in. This review is from jmclane04 and it’s on Apple Podcasts. The review title is, “I got my VBAC.” It says, “I am four days out from my VBAC. I told my husband today it was the greatest accomplishment of my life thus far. Thank you, Julie and Meagan, and all of the wonderful women of strength who shared their stories. I cried so many times on my daily walks while listening to this podcast including the day before my TOLAC started. It was truly inspiring and one of my main resources in preparing for a VBAC. I will continue to listen to every new episode.”Well, jmclane04, I hope that you are listening to this wonderful review of yours. Thank you so much for leaving that. If you haven’t left a review and have a moment, please press “pause”, and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or Google Play. You can head over to Google and type in “The VBAC Link” and leave us a review there or you simply send us an email on Instagram, Facebook, or our personal email at info@thevbaclink.com. Dr. Betty DeLass with Reborn Health & WellnessMeagan: Okay, Betty. Oh my gosh. Seriously, I love you so much. Betty: I love you too, Meagan. Meagan: Oh my gosh, seriously though. Actually, I have been one of Betty’s patients. She is amazing. She does pelvic work, in my opinion, in a very unique way. I just feel like you do things a little differently and I love that. I love that you do internal. I love that you do dry needling. I love that you’re talking about balancing the pelvis and all of those amazing things. So, let’s get into this. I think one of the very first questions I have for you is, what does pelvic floor therapy mean? What does it even mean when you say “pelvic floor therapy”?Definition of pelvic floor therapyBetty: Yeah, I think most people right out of the gates think, “Oh, you do your Kegels.” I just want to myth-bust that right out of the gate. It’s way, way, not Kegels and way, way more comprehensive and holistic than that. My definition might be a little bit different than some people's, but this is my definition of pelvic floor therapy. We are physical therapists, then we are orthopedic therapists, then we are pelvic floor therapists. We are kind of the nerdiest nerds of nerds and just couldn’t stop learning, so we dove down the rabbit hole of pelvic floor therapy, and then we were like, “Oh, here is the missing piece, the pelvis. It’s kind of important.” So that’s kind of what it encompasses in a nutshell. We do an evaluation. We do a full body movement analysis on you. We look at you from head to toe. We will have you bend all different directions, squat, balance, lunge, run, whatever you are coming in for, and then we will dive into each area specifically. We will look at your rib cage, your spine, your breathing patterns, your abdomen, and how your organs move. We’ll check out scar tissue, your hips, your pelvis, SI joints, pubic bone, tailbone, all the way down to your feet, and then we switch gears and do an internal exam as well. We are looking through the lens of a PT. We are not a midwife or an OB, but it is a pelvic internal exam similar to that. We are looking at a range of motion, strength, coordination, trigger points, prolapse, pressure management, and all sorts of things like that, and then piecing all of those things together to figure out why you are leaking. Why are you having pain during sex? Why are you having tailbone pain? Why do you have low back pain? Why do you have SPD or pubic symphysis dysfunction or all sorts of hosts of things like that regarding the pelvic floor and why you are coming in because a lot of times, it’s a combination of things inside the pelvis and outside of the pelvis. We want to make sure we are addressing and getting to the root cause of why you are having symptoms because honestly, ten people could walk in with the same complaint of, “I pee my pants when I sneeze,” and it could be for ten different reasons. We want to make sure we are addressing the reason why you have the issue you are having. Meagan: That is interesting because many of us think, “Oh, I pee when I sneeze.” And then they’re like, “Oh, it’s because I pushed for five hours.” It’s maybe not. I think that is fascinating. I want to go a little bit into C-sections specifically and how maybe a C-section parent could utilize pelvic floor therapy because I think sometimes, even for me, back in the day before I had my vaginal birth, I always thought that my pelvic floor wasn’t touched and wasn’t damaged. Nothing bad happened to my pelvic floor because I was cut open, right? Betty: Sure, sure. Meagan: But I feel like the more I have learned, the more I’ve realized that I really needed, really needed you back in the day when I was preparing for both my VBACs and really, for my first one because I feel like, over time, I’ve had more issues stem because I didn’t get care earlier on. Betty: Yeah. I think a really common misconception, too, is, “Oh, I had a C-section. My pelvic floor was spared,” and really, that’s not the case. You still grow a human being on top of your pelvic floor. Your pelvic floor still changed. Your weight shifted and all that stuff like that. Being pregnant in general is the biggest musculoskeletal change of your entire life more than having surgery or anything like a knee surgery or a shoulder surgery, and then you put on top of being pregnant and then having a C-section. It’s like, “Oh man. Those people really need some pelvic floor rehab because they also had a major abdominal surgery too.”And so it’s just important to think about if you were to have just a simple knee surgery, you would do rehab for months to get back to activities, but we don’t do anything for pregnancy and postpartum as a standard of care. That’s really what I’m about is changing that narrative and empowering other people to speak up for themselves and seek out that care because it’s really necessary. We could avoid a lot of the other surgeries or low back pain or other issues and get people back to being active and wanting to do the things they want to do. Literally, the world changes one vagina at a time. That’s really important to know. If you’ve had a C-section, you most definitely need pelvic floor rehab just because it’s not solely pelvic floor dependent. We are working on the abdomen, the C-section scar, any restrictions or adhesions that have happened, turning your core back on, mom butt, and all that stuff. So it’s all included in pelvic floor rehab. We’re making sure that the whole system works. Also, we’re bringing down the rib cage after being expanded from baby, so there’s just so much that can be done. Especially getting that mobility back in the C-section scar. They cut through seven layers of fascia and that’s really important to know because if we don’t mobilize that, low back pain is super, super common post-C-section, so we want to make sure the mobility happens in the front side of the abdomen so that you don’t tork and pull through your low back as much as you do because it’s restricted from the C-section scar. So, important pieces to know there. Meagan: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So, okay. That’s for parents that have had a C-section. What about first-time parents? How can we use you and your services to avoid a C-section?Betty: Totally. We love it when people come in proactively whether they have things going on or not. When they find out that they are pregnant, typically we see most people around their second trimester just simply because one, they don’t know that they are pregnant, and then two, they’re finally well enough to leave the house. They are not too tired or too sick and things like that. That’s a great time to come in. Even if you are having pain with intercourse or leaking before you even get pregnant, know that none of those things are normal. There are things that we can do to address that to even help with getting pregnant. And then when you are pregnant, prepping for labor and delivery, a lot of things that we will look at are just your movement patterns. We make sure your hips move off or your spine and your hip flexors are in good mobility. We can help with the round ligament pain. We can help lengthen the pelvic floor, make sure you are coordinated, and make sure you know when you are pushing, pushing correctly, and then also making sure that you’re– I’m going to get a little bit nerdy here. The deep frontal fascia line is a fascia line from your head to your toes and it incorporates the pelvic floor, the inner thighs, the adductors, and then the hip flexors. We really work a lot on the balance of that and making sure your adductors, your inner thighs, have a good length so that you can get into a deep squat to get those hips wide and pelvic floor open, and just making sure that you are in a good position from a musculoskeletal standpoint for baby to drop down in that pelvis. We make sure that you are able to open up the pelvis and get the pelvic floor out of the way so that you can have a vaginal delivery whether that’s the first time or a VBAC. Also related, we’ve had a lot of really cool patients come in who are seeking VBACs. They are doing everything they can. They’re going to a chiropractor, acupuncture, pelvic PT, and doing all of the things. They have beautiful, beautiful outcomes. It’s just really cool to see. Meagan: Oh yeah, I love that. I would say that’s another misconception. “Oh, I haven’t had a baby yet. I don’t need pelvic floor rehab at all.” I’m just listening to you and there are so many things you can do and prepare to really have a beautiful experience and save us so much damage in the long run because not everyone has severe damage, right? But we could learn all of the tools to minimize anything. Betty: Totally, totally. Absolutely. I’m a big fan of prevention health and wellness and actually having true health care versus our sick care model that we currently live in. Meagan: Mhmm, absolutely. You mentioned a little bit about back and even ribs and stuff, what other symptoms, other than sneezing and peeing or pain during sex, would someone maybe have that would alarm them to say, “Hmm. Maybe I need to just seek out an opinion for a pelvic floor rehab person”?Betty: Yeah. Anything related to the low back, SI, and tailbone would be a great spot to start including, like you said, the leaking, and anything with the bowels. So constipation, hemorrhoids, painful periods, endometriosis, diastasis recti, prolapse or heaviness, pressure down in the pelvic floor whether it feels like your organs are falling out or your vagina is falling out– those are all things that we treat daily. Most of the time, people come in for one thing and then we dive deeper into their history and they’re like, “Oh yeah, this and this,” and then all of a sudden, they’re like, “Oh my gosh. All of these things that I thought were just part of who I am aren’t even things anymore.” So really, all of the things that we can address because we are that comprehensive PT, orthopedic PT, and pelvic PT. We treat it all and make sure that you are literally living your life to the fullest and walk out of here being like, “Wow, I never thought that I could feel this good.” That’s where we put our pride and joy in helping make that happen for people. Finding a pelvic floor PTMeagan: Oh my gosh. I love it. You have so many therapists all over Utah. How can we find even more people like you, for our listeners who are not here in Utah, that have the same qualifications? Because you have other– I’m going to talk about it in a second. I mean, it’s not other things but she does other things. She has this thing called dry needling and it’s my favorite so I have to talk about it. But anyway, how can people really find someone with qualifications like you?Betty: Yeah, absolutely. So there are a couple of websites that I’ll send people to. It’s called www.pelvicrehab.com and that’s a great resource. You can just type in your zip code and they’ll pull up a bunch of practitioners that all have a little bio and potentially a picture if they pay for a subscription and whatnot. Then also www.pelvicguru.com and the same thing. You type in your zip code and it pulls up practitioners around you. You can look at them. I would treat it similarly to seeking out a hair stylist or an OB, midwife, or doula. You want to make sure. You can have a chat with them, see if you’re a good fit, and see if they fit your philosophy of what you are wanting from your care perspective because there is definitely a dynamic shift that’s happened in pelvic rehab itself.A lot of us are being very much more holistic but there are still some people who sit there in the biofeedback and kegel world. That’s what their treatment is, so just make sure that you’re matching well with the person that you’re finding when you do look on those directories. Otherwise, just a simple Google search too of “pelvic floor therapy near me”. Another key piece through that is to know that most of us are PTs, but there are also OTs as well that do pelvic rehab. Meagan: Okay, good to know. I don’t even know if I realized that OTs can do pelvic rehab. Betty: Yep. Dry needlingMeagan: Awesome. Okay, let’s talk a little bit about dry needling or a lot of it, whatever you decide. All I know is, okay. A little bit of storytime. So Betty rides. She cycles and so do I. We did a little, it’s not a race, but a ride across Utah essentially. She was telling us about dry needling and everyone went to bed. I should have been exhausted, but I just had to learn more about dry needling, so I started YouTubing it and Googling “dry needling”. I was like, “Oh my gosh. This looks crazy.” It kind of reminded me of acupuncture a little bit. But anyway, when we got home, I scheduled Betty, got in, and she did this dry needling. I will say it can be a little intense, but so amazing. So talk about what dry needling is, maybe how it differentiates between acupuncture, and how it can benefit people out there. Also, I know that you’ve been doing it on C-section scars now, right? Betty: Yes!Meagan: Let’s talk about that too. What does dry needling do to a C-section scar?…

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Episode 197 Jennifer's VBAC + Home Birth Transfer Aug 17, 2022

Show notes

“Your story is 50% yours and 50% your baby’s.” After having a crash C-section under general anesthesia, Jennifer planned to have a peaceful and redemptive vaginal birth at home. Jennifer shares how she still found peace and redemption through her VBAC, even though things didn’t go exactly as planned. If for some reason, your home or birth center birth is transferred to the hospital, know that it’s okay. Know that you didn’t do anything wrong. Nothing failed, the story is just changing. You’re turning the page and it’s going to a new place. It’s okay to change!Additional linksJennifer’s Instagram and Photography WebsiteThe VBAC Link Blog: Deciding Between HBAC and Hospital BirthThe VBAC Link Facebook CommunityHow to VBAC: The Ultimate Prep Course for ParentsFull transcriptNote: All transcripts are edited to correct grammar, false starts, and filler words. Meagan: Good morning, everybody. This is The VBAC Link and we are excited to bring you another VBAC story today. We have our friend, Jennifer, who is in California, and guess what? She is also a birth doula. I love when birth doulas share their stories because I feel like sometimes as birth doulas, while we are in labor, we forget all of the doula things. I always like to hear sometimes how we as birthing doulas will labor because for me, when I was in labor, there were some things that I knew I probably should have done but I wasn’t in that doula mindset. I couldn’t think, “Oh, I should do Rebozo apples right now.” And so I love hearing what doulas do and don’t do. I love that because it’s just a reminder that even we as doulas can benefit from having a doula in the room. So I’m excited to hear your story, my love. Review of the WeekBut of course, we have a Review of the Week which is from RosiP87 and she says, “This podcast is empowering and healing.” she says, “The VBAC Link has been exactly what I needed but I didn’t know it. Listening to the podcast has been healing and helpful in processing my C-section after my first baby. Julie and Meagan are informative and engaging to listen to. I know that I will have a different birth experience with my second baby because of the information and confidence that I have gained through listening to this podcast. Thank you so much, ladies.”Thank you, RosiP. That was back in March, so definitely write us when you have your baby and let us know how things went. Thank you so much for writing a review. If you haven’t written a review yet, we would love your review. You can head over to Apple Podcasts or Google Play. You can go over to Facebook. You can leave us an actual Google review on our website or if you would like, send us an email with the subject “Review.” We would love to add your review and possibly read it on the next podcast. Jennifer’s StoryMeagan: Okay, Jennifer. We are going to turn the time over to you. We were just talking a little bit about you becoming a doula. I would love to hear why you became a doula, what inspired you, and maybe how being a doula helped you during your birth as well. Jennifer: Hi, thank you for having me. I appreciate it so much. Meagan: Yes, thank you for being with us. Jennifer: You guys were a huge part of my journey through this, so I’m really excited to be here.Meagan: I love that because we can’t physically be with everybody but I love that we can just be with people on their journey, even if it’s just a sliver. If it’s following our Instagram, following our blogs, or listening to the podcast, it just makes me feel so special. I feel like I have attended so many births through listening to all of these birth stories and then kind of being a doula on the side on this podcast. Jennifer: Yes, absolutely. You guys have definitely helped thousands of women, I’m sure. Meagan: Well, awesome. Well, share your stories with us. Jennifer: Yeah, so I know you just asked how I became a doula and I’m still fairly new to it. I’m going slowly because I have two little kids. Meagan: Yep, being a doula with children is hard. Jennifer: It’s really hard. Yeah, it’s definitely tricky to navigate, but it’s so rewarding. I think even just doing a little bit here and there–Meagan: Yep. One or two is so great, yeah. Jennifer: Yeah and really, it was just my original C-section that inspired me to become a doula because I was always interested in birth, but after I went through a really scary situation that I wasn’t prepared for, I just wanted to make up for it by helping other women go through their journeys and hoping to help them avoid going through some of the more traumatic stuff if they’re educated and advocated for, and stuff like that. Meagan: I love it. I love it, love it, love it. Well, welcome to your journey. I’m excited to see you grow. Jennifer: Thank you. Thank you so much. I’m excited too. Meagan: Do you have an Instagram for your doula work? Jennifer: You know what? I don’t. I just use my personal one, but I’d be happy to give you that. Meagan: Yeah, if you want anyone to go follow you, feel free to share it. Jennifer: Yeah, I can just send it to you because my last name is kind of confusing. Meagan: Perfect. Send it and we will add it to the show notes. Jennifer: Perfect. Awesome, thank you. Meagan: Okay. Well, feel free to share your stories. I’m so excited to hear them. Jennifer: Sure. So I guess no VBAC is a VBAC without a C-section, so that’s where I’ll start. I was 24 when I had my first baby. I had always wanted to become a mom. I was always super interested in birth even when I was a teenager. I’d always watch all of the birth stories and all of that stuff on TV and all of the things that make birth sound really scary. I was still interested in it. I guess I’ll just jump right in. I was 40 weeks exactly on the dot. I was laying in bed at night and I was feeling super uncomfortable. I got up to go pee and my water broke. I had taken a Bradley class and I was just preparing to labor at home for as long as I could, but I was confused when my water broke because, in Bradley, they would teach, “10% of people have their water break first. It’s probably not going to happen to you. Here’s what to do if it doesn’t, basically.”So when my water broke, I woke up my husband and I was like, “Dude. My water broke. I think we should just go to the hospital. Isn’t that what you’re supposed to do?” And he was like, “I don’t know. Are you sure?” So I called them and they said, “Well, we have to tell you to come in,” and I was like, “Okay, I guess I’ll go in then.” So I took a shower and went in. I got there and I was 1 centimeter dilated, of course. I was having contractions and everything. I kind of expected to be barely dilated, but I just–Meagan: That’s where I was, too. Jennifer: Your water broke first?Meagan: My water broke, and then I walked in there and they were like, “You’re maybe a 1.”Jennifer: It’s like, “Oh my god.” Hearing that is just like, “Okay, we have a long road ahead of us.”Meagan: Uh-huh. Jennifer: Yeah, but they said, “We’re going to keep you because your water broke,” and blah blah blah blah, all the things they normally tell you. So we were in triage for a couple of hours and then they got me a room. That’s when the contractions really started kicking in. I was planning an unmedicated birth, but I was pretty surprised from the get-go how intense it was. My husband was just rubbing my back and everything. I was doing fine. I was just leaning forward through all of the contractions and breathing. I think around 5:00 or 6:00 a.m., we called our parents and they came. It just started getting so intense at that point and I just wasn’t as prepared as I thought I was for the sensations. My mom and my husband were rubbing my back and everything was just getting so intense so fast, on top of each other. They checked me and I was 4 centimeters. I was just like, “Oh my god, dude. What? How?” I kept going, though. I labored for, I don’t know, maybe another four hours. They checked me again and I was at a 6. At that point, I was just like, “I can’t do this anymore. If this is going to get more painful, I can’t do it.” I asked them for something at that point, but not for an epidural. I did not want to get an epidural, so they were like, “Okay, well let’s try the laughing gas.” I tried that and I don’t know about anyone else, but I could not keep that thing on my face at all. I just couldn’t.Meagan: I had it too and I was like, “I need something to hold it for me,” because while holding it, too, I would get kind of like, not sleepy-sleepy, but drowsy. Jennifer: Yes. Like, out of it. Meagan: Out of it a little bit. I couldn’t apply the pressure that I needed for it to be on my face, and then I’d forget, and then my hands would drop, and then it would fall. I was like, “Can someone just hold this for me? Because I can’t.”Jennifer: Oh my gosh, I know. It’s like, the thing that you have to hold your own. Meagan: Yeah. You can’t have anyone else touch it. That’s the rule.Jennifer: Exactly. Meagan: Yeah. Jennifer: Oh I know. Yeah, that was terrible because I was like, “Okay, if I could just get this thing to work properly, maybe I could keep going,” but it didn’t work like that. Everyone was, not yelling at me, but just like, “Hold it on your face. Just hold it there.” I was like, “I can’t.” It was horrible. So I was like, “Screw this. Let’s forget about this.” So they were like, “Do you want to try fentanyl?” I was like, “I really don’t want fentanyl,” because my whole take on the situation was like, “How is it that I’m not allowed to take Advil but I can take fentanyl?” It just didn’t make sense to me. Meagan: Right? Jennifer: So I was like, “Okay, let’s just do the epidural then.” They were like, “Well, that has fentanyl in it too.” So I was like, “Okay, whatever. I’m not going to get through this without it,” or so I thought. I ended up getting the epidural. I was 8 centimeters at that point and it worked right away, but then immediately after I had got it, his heart rate dropped really low to 70. Immediately, they were just like, “Okay. We are taking you to the OR. We’ve got to get this baby out right now.” So they rolled me to the OR and I was freaking out the whole time, of course. My parents were in there and they were just talking. They had no idea what was going on. They threw my husband some scrubs and they rolled me in there. Everyone was just like, “What? What happened?” No one else was paying attention, but by the time they got me in there, his heart rate stabilized. They were like, “Oh, never mind.”Meagan: It’s actually really common for babies' heart rates to drop after an epidural. Jennifer: Yeah, which at the time, I didn’t know that. The nurses were telling me, “We have never seen this before.” Meagan: What?!Jennifer: Yes, and since then, I’ve been like, that’s either a huge lie or this is their first time being a nurse. Meagan: Yeah, that’s interesting because I see it all of the time as a doula. Jennifer: Yeah. Meagan: Sometimes, it’s getting more fluid. Sometimes, it’s stabilizing mom’s blood pressure. Sometimes, it’s just changing the position because they sit you up, you curl over, and then they lay you flat on your back. Between those three positions, baby’s like, “Whoa, what the heck?” And sometimes, it’s just slightly moving to the right or the left and it can recover. Jennifer: Yes, yes. And since then, I’ve learned that. I also know that my blood pressure is naturally really low so that probably has something to do with it. Meagan: Yep, yep. Jennifer: Yeah, so they rolled me back in and they were like, “Just kidding, you can have a vaginal birth,” and I was like, “Okay.” So they checked me again. I had a million cervical checks and they were like, “Okay, you are at a 9.5. The baby is coming soon,” and I was like, “Okay cool.” So they were like, “You just have a little cervical lip.” They put a peanut ball in between my legs and I lay there for two hours. Nothing was happening. I was feeling a lot of pressure, but I wasn’t feeling the urge to push. It was just a lot of pressure if that makes sense. The nurse next to me– I remember just laying there and I was like, “Oh my gosh. When is something going to happen?” I was just over it at that point. And the nurse was sitting next to me on her computer and she was like, “You know, I know you don’t want medication, but the doctor and I really think that the lowest dose possible of Pitocin might get this baby out right now.” I was like, “I don’t know. I don’t feel comfortable with that.” She was like, “We can just do a 2, the absolute lowest dose, and we really think it will help.”I was like, “Uh, okay.” So they did that and once again, immediately, his heart rate dropped really low. Everyone came rushing into the room again and I was just laying there freaking out. It just got so frantic so fast. This nurse started saying, “Okay, it’s been three minutes without a heart rate. Three minutes, four minutes, five minutes,” just counting it like that. The doctor was right there and she was like, “Okay, push. Just push.” I tried once and she was like, “Not like that. No, no, no. You’re doing it wrong. Just push.” I was just so flustered. Meagan: Oh my goodness, yeah. Jennifer: Yeah. It was crazy. The nurse next to me just continued saying, “Seven minutes, eight minutes, nine minutes,” and eventually, the doctor was just like, “Okay, we’ve got to get this baby out.” So once again, they rolled me back into the OR. I’m a first-time mom. I’ve never given birth before and I’m like, “Is he alive? I don’t know.” So they rolled me back there and they moved me onto the table. The nurse put the doppler on my belly and she could not find his heartbeat. She was just moving it all around my stomach and couldn’t find it. I was screaming and crying. I was like, “Is he okay?” And they were just like, “It’s going to be okay. It’s going to be okay. Stop screaming.” I just felt so unsupported at that moment. No one could understand how I was feeling. The anesthesiologist came in and he was like, “Look, we are just going to have to put you under. We have to get him out now.” I just burst into tears and I was like, “I’m not going to be awake for the birth of my son? Is there any other way to do this?” He eventually agreed. He gave me all kinds of stuff and he was like, “Okay, let’s just try this when you’re awake.” So he gave me all kinds of stuff. I was feeling fairly numb, but not all the way numb. I could feel them doing everything they were doing, but it wasn’t severely painful. I was still screaming. I think I was just so scared. My husband wasn’t in there the whole time. They wouldn’t let him in until maybe halfway through the surgery.Meagan: What?!Jennifer: Yeah. He came in eventually. Meagan: Jeez. That’s scary for him and super scary for you too. Jennifer: It was. It was really scary. I just felt so alone laying there on this cold table not knowing if my baby was okay. So he came in and he was freaking out worse than me the whole time. I just have to say that at the beginning of my labor when I was laboring without pain medications, he was puking in a bag in the corner because he was so freaked out. Meagan: Oh no. Jennifer: And I was getting mad at him. I was like, “I should be the one puking right now, not you.” Yeah, it was sad. But anyway, he came into the room and he was holding my hand. He didn’t say a word. He was just looking into my eyes, crying. I was screaming back at him. Eventually, I felt them lift something out of me and it was him. He was crying and it was the best moment of relief. I couldn’t believe he was okay. They put him over the drape and they took him back immediately. My husband went back there and they were weighing him and stuff. I was just asking my husband, “What does he look like? What color is his hair?” I kept asking, “Can I have my baby? Can I have my baby? Can you put him on my chest?” They were like, “No, you can’t see him yet.” It ended up being 45 minutes before I got to see him. I…

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Episode 196 Brenda's VBAC + D-MER and Postpartum Aug 10, 2022

Show notes

“Once I knew what it was, that helped. It’s a physiological thing. There’s nothing actually wrong with me. My experience with it was pretty extreme. Our bodies are so amazing and they serve us so well, but there are differences for everybody.”Brenda’s six births include a medicated hospital birth, a crash Cesarean, an unmedicated VBAC, an HBAC, an emergency C-section, and a gentle, planned Cesarean. Her stories are wildly different but all inspiring in their own ways!Brenda also gets raw and vulnerable with us as she shares her intense postpartum experiences with Dysphoric Milk Ejection Reflex (D-MER). Her choice to fight for healing in a positive way has helped her come out of the fog every time.Have you experienced D-MER?Additional linksThe VBAC Link Blog: How to Plan for a Natural Family-Centered CesareanThe VBAC Link Facebook CommunityHow to VBAC: The Ultimate Prep Course for ParentsFull transcriptNote: All transcripts are edited to correct grammar, false starts, and filler words. Meagan: Hello, hello everybody. Welcome to The VBAC Link podcast. This is Meagan, your host, which is so weird to say that it’s just me by myself. I don’t know how long it’s going to take to get used to that, but here I am and I’m still so excited to be with you. We have an awesome episode today. We have our friend, Brenda, and she has a lot of stories to tell you. I am so excited to learn more about all of her birth journeys. She is a mom of six and has had a mixture of vaginal, unmedicated, medicated, home birth, VBAC, and planned Cesarean. All of the things, so we are so excited to dive into her stories today. Review of the WeekMeagan: As usual, we always have a Review of the Week and I am going to be reading that for you today. This is from a mama in Australia. I don’t even know how to actually how to say her username. It’s awesomebarbie. Sorry if I’m botching that, love. Her topic says, “Two angels sent from above.” It says, “Hey, ladies. I’m from Sydney, Australia and I’ve been a silent fan for months now. Ever since having my C-section on November 19th, I have been obsessed with achieving a vaginal birth. Luckily for me, I fell pregnant on July 20th and I’m currently 33 weeks.”“Listening to your podcast has encouraged me to be strong-minded and educated me so much. It has taught me how to self-advocate and stand up for my body. Thank you, guys. I am going for my VBAC in late March. You guys won’t need to stalk me because I will write you guys either way.”I love that because we do. We stalk you guys. “I hope to be on your show soon. Love, Wendy. Sydney, Australia.” It’s so funny because when we read reviews from the past, we do. We love to go back into The VBAC Link Community on our Facebook group and see if they have posted and what the outcome was. So thank you so much, Wendy. We love you back and we are so glad that you have been with us. Brenda’s StoryMeagan: Okay. We are going to turn the time over to Brenda. Before we do, I want to just give you a little sneak peek of what we’ve got for the little bit in the end. There’s my son in the background. So like I said in the beginning, she’s had six kiddos and something that we want to talk about at the end is gentle Cesareans. This is something that I personally had as well with my second C-section and it made all the world of a difference in my experience. And then we also wanted to talk about D-Mer. Hang in and listen to this amazing story and at the end, hang in there because we want to talk about D-Mer a little more. Okay, cute Brenda, are you ready for this? Brenda: I’m ready. Meagan: All right. Well, I will turn the time over to you. Brenda: Okay. So yeah. I’m super excited to talk. I mean, who doesn’t love talking about their children’s births? And so I guess I’m just going to run through. Like you said, I have six kids and each birth has been totally different. My first was over the estimated due date. I kind of went into labor, but I was not progressing very quickly. I basically was induced because they gave me Pitocin. So that one–Meagan: Spontaneous, but induced. Brenda: Yeah and I was a first-time mom. I had been in early labor for two days. I was exhausted. So yeah. 3 centimeters and I was pretty much panicking with the pain. I got an epidural which actually, I think, helped me relax. There were some complications with him. He had aspirated meconium so he had to leave for– I don’t know. I don’t remember how long, but it was fairly uneventful. For my second birth, there are 18 months between the two boys. I went in to be induced because I was worried about him being over and aspirating meconium, so I was like, “Okay, from this experience, I’m going to do this with the next one.” I was still not super informed really about anything. So I went in to be induced. Everything was going really well. I think right around 6 centimeters, his heart rate started crashing. That happened multiple times, so they took me back and put me under general which was really scary. It was really, really scary. I remember looking up at the nurse who was next to me. I just remember looking at her just like, “Can you please pray for me? I am so scared right now.” And yeah. Then I woke up. My first memory was that I was holding this baby. We didn’t know the gender so I was like, “Oh, is this a boy or a girl?” It was just that you are thankful for it and you are thankful for everything turning out okay, but after that experience, I was really disappointed with it. I was really disappointed that I had this experience. It was traumatic and I had mild postpartum depression after I had my son, Lincoln.And so after that, I was like, “Okay. There has to be something better than this.” I did not like that. And so I started down the road of, “How can I have a better birth?” I completely nerded out on everything. I got pregnant with my third and was just, I mean, I read all of the books. Ina May, I watched all of the movies. I was just like, “I really, really want to have a VBAC.” I got a doula. I started doing all of the things I could do to prepare for that. I went into labor. I think it was five days after my estimated due date. I tried to stay at home as long as possible. I went to the hospital and I was already 8 centimeters. Meagan: Oh!Brenda: I remember tears streaming down my face because I was like, “I think it’s going to happen. I think it’s going to happen.” And an hour and a half later, I had my third son. It was seriously the best day of my life. It was my birthday. Meagan: Aww. Brenda: Yeah. The sun was shining through the window. It was so cool and peaceful in the room. The doctor came in and he just sat at the end of the bed. I just had my baby. It was perfect. It was amazing. It was the best day of my life, one of the best days of my life. Obviously, the satisfaction of having a natural childbirth and just, “Okay. I did it.” It was empowering. Also, just the recovery, everything was so much easier, and yeah. I mean, it was awesome. I was super thankful for that. And so then when I got pregnant with my fourth son, I really was like, “You know what? That went so well.” We lived right across the street from the hospital where I had all of my kids. So I was telling my husband at the time, “Maybe we should just have a home birth.” And so I started looking into that. We had some really difficult things going on at that time and just really liked the idea of having more privacy in our home too. So I found a midwife and I went into labor. I think I was nine days over. It was kind of funny because she would check on me and I just was totally not communicating. She would be like, “How are you doing?” Because I had told her that I had started having contractions. She ended up showing up at my house and was like, “We just felt like we needed to come to check on you.” And so I ended up being 6 centimeters when she came. At that point, it was just really chill. We just hung out. I was washing my dishes and making them coffee. It was very relaxing and just, I don’t know. It was like, “I just don’t even feel like I’m in labor because this is so chill.”Meagan: So chill. That’s awesome. Brenda: Yeah. I wasn’t even in a lot of pain and it was just really awesome. I really wanted to have him in my tub, so I did go in the tub for a little bit and at that point, my contractions were getting quite a bit stronger. I was pretty tired. There was a lot of emotional stuff going on in my life at that time and I was just kind of checked out. My midwife came into the bathroom because, at that point, she kind of just stood back and let me do my thing. She checked me and I was 9.5 with a lip. She was like, “All right. Well, you have a little bit of a lip left. You can try to push a little bit, but if it doesn’t take care of it, you can stop and wait it out.” So I tried to do that for a little while and I got to the point where I was just like, “I’m done. What other option do we have?”I ended up getting out and going into my bedroom. She manually stretched my cervix while I was pushing which was extremely painful. It was probably the most difficult thing I had experienced during childbirth and very different from my VBAC in the hospital. It was obviously a really great experience and it ended up being fine. The delivery was fairly easy, I guess. I never had any tearing during any of my births. Two of my kids were over 9 pounds, and so my recovery and just the pushing had been really pretty easy for me which I am thankful for. So overall, besides the cervix stretching, it was a really good experience. So then fast forward five years. During that five years, I had gotten divorced and remarried. I had four boys and I then was pregnant with my first child, Ruby, with my husband. I was super excited to be having a girl after four boys. I was planning to VBAC. I mean, I had just assumed that’s what would happen. My provider was really supportive. I did have a little bit of hesitation because I knew that I had scarring on my cervix. It had torn when I had my son with the HBAC, and so I was feeling a little bit like, “Is that going to create issues with the delivery?” because I was reading into that and trying to learn all of the things about breaking down scar tissue. But I figured, “Well, I’ll just try, and whatever happens happens.” I think I was about four days past due. I had been having contractions for a few days. I remember being in the kitchen a couple of days before I had her and I had to stop doing what I was doing because of my abdomen. I had a contraction and it just was really painful which was really bizarre to me because it came out of nowhere. I just kept going and they went away. For the next couple of days, I had really low energy. I’m like, “Well, yeah. I’m having a baby. This is common. You can get flu-like symptoms and clean out and all of this stuff.” And so, yeah. Four days after my estimated due date, I just didn’t feel good. I felt flu-like symptoms but again, I thought, “Well, I am having a baby.” My husband and my parents were over and they were telling me, “You don’t look very well. Do you not feel good?” And I’m like, “Well no, but I’m super tired. I’m not sleeping.” I forgot to mention that I also was very sick with the majority of my pregnancies, so horrible indigestion. Throwing up all of the time, just coming out of both ends all of the time, so I wasn’t in the healthiest spot, but I was like, “Yeah. I’m really tired and I don’t feel good, but whatever.” So I lay down and the only time I’ve ever taken a nap in all of my pregnancies was this time. I fell asleep on my bed for over an hour and a half which was so crazy. I woke up and my husband was like, “I really think that we should take your temperature because you are acting funny,” which is another thing. I hallucinate when I have a fever and get super weird. I was like, “Okay, whatever.” So he took my temperature and I was running a fever. I was like, “Well, I’m fine. I’m just really tired.” He was like, “No. I really think that we should go to the hospital.” And at that point, my sisters were involved. They don’t live in the area, but they were involved and they were all side-texting him like, “Brenda needs to go to the hospital. Brenda needs to go to the hospital. This is making us nervous.” I definitely was declining rapidly. I did not feel well at well. I couldn’t really walk. My abdomen just hurt really, really bad. Meagan: That’s so scary. Brenda: It was really weird, but I still was just like, “Whatever. I just am really tired.” They finally convinced me to go to the hospital so I’m like, “Fine. I’ll just go there and get some medicine and then I need to get better so I can have a baby.” So it’s thirty minutes from our house to the hospital. From the time we left to the time we got to the hospital, I was a complete mess. Any time my husband would go over any bump or anything, I just was in so much pain. My abdomen hurt so bad. I can’t really even describe the feeling, but it was so painful. I remember getting there and I was so mad at him because I was thinking, “Why are you going over these potholes? This is so painful.” And I was thinking like, “I’ve had four children. What is going on? This is really weird. I should be able to handle this and I’m not handling this.” So we get into the emergency room and by this time, I’m shivering. It’s summer in Minnesota, so it was probably 90 degrees and humid. I was in black leggings and a sweatshirt and I was freezing. So we get in there and the ER lady was like, “Are you here for labor and delivery?” And I was like, “No. I’m not.” I’m here. I need to see a doctor because I need some medicine. I was super belligerent. I’m not that way. I’m a very passive, quiet person, but I was basically almost yelling at anyone I came into contact with, which, I don’t really remember any of this. They wanted to put me in a wheelchair and I refused. I wanted to walk up the stairs. I was just being really weird and totally out of character. And so we got up to labor and delivery and they said, “Yeah. You’re running a fever and we are going to give you some fluids. We’ll admit you because eventually, you’ll have your baby, but we know you want to have a VBAC so we will just take it slow.” Over the course of, I think it was maybe twenty minutes, they were trying to put an IV in which was not working, I guess. It was another thing I don’t really remember. It made me realize how out of it I was because I guess they had multiple people come in and try to put my IV in. There was blood everywhere and I don’t remember any of it. And so they came in and they were like, “We are going to do a rectal just to get a more accurate read,” and my internal temperature was pushing 107. Meagan: Oh my gosh. Brenda: Yeah. I was exhibiting other signs of sepsis. The doctor came in. I was going into septic shock, so they brought me back and did a C-section. It was a really crazy thing. She ended up being– they did come in. I don’t remember this either, but they told my husband, “We don’t really know what the outcome could be because this is really serious.”It was scary for him, but he did great. He was awesome. I was completely out of it and saying really weird things because of all of the medication I was given. He was just really great and everything turned out fine. She was healthy and as soon as I was cleaned out– my uterus was completely full of green fluid which makes sense about the pain. It was completely infected. Everything was just infected. And so they actually washed me out which was really weird, but as soon as I got back to the room, within probably several hours, I was completely back as far as temperature-wise. My color had returned. When the doctor came in, he was like, “I don’t even recognize you from the person that came in.”It just was really crazy how one, how quickly things can change, and then two, just how little control we have in those circumstances. I had no control over anything and…

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Episode 195 Rebecca's Precipitous VBAC + Cervical Laceration Aug 03, 2022

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“Every baby, every delivery, and every birth is so different.” Rebecca’s first birth was a smooth, textbook experience. Less than 12 months later, Rebecca arrived at the hospital ready to deliver her second baby girl. However, after four hours of pushing, unmedicated manual rotation, and scary heart rate readings, Rebecca knew she needed to consent to a C-section. In surgery, Rebecca was told her pelvis was too small to ever birth a baby vaginally even though she already had a prior vaginal birth! She also experienced a cervical laceration. Rebecca was left traumatized after such a drastically different birth experience. With her next baby, Rebecca fought for healing and for her TOLAC. Her third delivery was quite unlike either of the two previous deliveries. We can’t wait for you to hear about her wild ride and to learn from her particularly unique experiences!Additional linksIntrapartum Cervical Lacerations PubMed ArticleThe VBAC Link Blog: Special ScarsSpecial Scars, Special Hope Facebook GroupHow to VBAC: The Ultimate Prep Course for ParentsFull transcriptNote: All transcripts are edited to correct grammar, false starts, and filler words. Meagan: Good morning, everybody. You are listening to The VBAC Link. Today is the first episode without Julie and let me tell you, I am already missing her so much. It’s going to be a little different not having this podcast with her. I was just telling our guest today how weird– I don’t even know what episode number we are on right now because Julie was such the backbone. She did all of the technical, little-detail things and I am going to have to get used to that.So bear with me as I am weaning into doing all of the podcast stuff by myself. Today, we have our friend, Rebecca, and she is going to share her story. You guys, she has a special scar, or a cervical extension I should say, that ended up turning into special scar. We don't have a ton of these episodes on the podcast. They are not as common and one of the reasons why I am personally excited for her to share her story is because they are not as common but they are still possible. We really want to get the word out there to do your research and do what’s comfortable for you, but know that it is possible.Something that’s also a little different about her story is that it was from the cervical extension. I can’t wait for her to share a little bit about this. We are going to talk about what a cervical extension even means, what that looks like, and what it could mean for future vaginal births. But of course, we have a Review of the Week. Normally I would turn the time over to Julie, but we don’t have Julie, so I am going to read you a Review of the Week. Review of the WeekMeagan: Today’s review is by Sarah and she said, “One month ago, I had a successful VBAC induction just 18 months after my Cesarean section. I almost called to schedule a repeat on my due date because I was so scared. I found your podcast and listened to it for two days straight. It gave me the courage to go through with induction and I am so glad I did. I’m hoping more people find this as a resource.”Oh, that’s awesome. It looks like she emailed us that. We love reviews. As you know, we have Apple Podcasts. We have Spotify. We have Google play. We have just Google. You can leave us a review on Google. But just like Sarah did, you can email us a review. So if you’ve had a good experience or something that you would like to share with the world, please email us. Feel free and we will slot this into the review and maybe read it on the next podcast. Rebecca’s StoryMeagan: Okay, Ms. Rebecca. We are so excited to have you. Thank you so much for taking the time out of your day to share the stories of your three kiddos, right? Do you have three?Rebecca: Yep, three girls. Meagan: Three girls! You’re a girl mama. That is so awesome. And remind me, they are all pretty close like 4, 3, and 1?Rebecca: Yep. Yep, that’s right. Meagan: Yes. 4, 3, and 1. That is so awesome. So you are really busy in your life.Rebecca: Yeah, just a little bit. Meagan: Yes. Oh my goodness. Are you guys planning on having more? Do you have any idea if you are wanting any more?Rebecca: I’ve always liked even numbers, so I’ll probably have one more but we joke that each one gets spaced out further and further apart. So not anytime soon at least. Meagan: Yes. But hey, you know what? Julie had this too where all of her kids are really, really close. It might be chaotic right now when they are little, but then they are the best of friends and they are all in the same time. My sister and I are three years apart. It’s still not that very far, but I love that when they are really close, you are always going to school together, you are in the same friend zones and in the same types of things. It might be chaotic when they are little but it will be so fun I bet.Rebecca: It will be worth it hopefully.Meagan: It will be so awesome. So awesome. Well, cool. Well, thank you for joining us today and I would love to turn the time over to you to tell us about these beautiful girls’ births. Rebecca: Okay. Well, my first birth was very uncomplicated. Pretty much the only strange thing that happened was that my water broke at 37 weeks in the middle of the night. I was totally unprepared because everyone says that first-time moms go until 42 weeks, and so I just wasn’t even in my mind thinking that was possible. But it was a great birth. It lasted about 10 hours, labor did. It was unmedicated. I didn’t have any tearing and it was just kind of textbook, I guess, in that way. Then, when my daughter was about 4 months old, I started coming down with what I thought was the flu, and then I also started having some food aversions which was weird. And so I asked my doula. I was like, “Is this normal postpartum? Are my hormones regulating or what’s going on?” And she was like, “Rebecca, you need to go take a pregnancy test.”Meagan: You’re like, “Uhhh.”Rebecca: It was positive. I was in denial. She said she knew for a week before I did what was happening. Meagan: Oh my gosh. Rebecca: Yeah. I was just in denial. So that put their due dates within 12 months of one another. So both October and it was just a very difficult pregnancy emotionally and physically. I had to give up nursing because I’m one of those who dry up when I’m pregnant. I just felt a lot of guilt. My husband seemed to be completely unaware of how hard it was going to be where I was like, “Do you understand having two kids 12 months apart? This is going to be very hard.” Anyway, so with her, I was expecting to go into labor early. 37 weeks came, rolled around, and no baby. 38 weeks came. 39 and finally, after my due date, I went into labor which already felt like I was three weeks overdue just because my first daughter came three weeks early. It was just so mental at that point. We got to the hospital and I was already 9 centimeters so we thought this baby was coming. I pushed for four hours and she would not come out. They called in the senior midwife and she was like, “The baby is OP.” And so they were having me do all of the things. What’s it called? The Walchers?Meagan: Oh yeah. That’s intense. Rebecca: Oh, it was terrible. It was really painful, but they could just not get her to turn into a favorable position. They tried manually turning her and I still didn’t have the epidural at that point. Finally, the midwife was wanting to call it and I said, “What are my options?” She was like, “A C-section.” I was like, “Well, how about we do an epidural and see if that relaxes me, and then see if you can try turning the baby?”At that point, I was just willing to try whatever so they agreed. They let me sleep for a few hours and then came back in. It was the middle of the night and they started manually turning. She was responding to it, but then all of a sudden, she just started having heart decels down to the thirties and they freaked out. They were like, “Okay, we are not doing that. We will let you try to push her out sunny-side up essentially.”And so I pushed and she started descending, but then her heart did the same thing down to the thirties.Meagan: Wow, that is scary. That is scary.Rebecca: Yes. It still, I mean, I’ve worked through it in therapy now, but yeah. Just the room, you could just tell the mood changed. They were just staring at the monitor with her heart rate. It was at that point where I was like, “Okay. We’ve done it. We’ve given it our all. This is the right call.” So they prepped me for a C-section. Overall, it wasn’t terrible. They didn’t strap my arms down or anything. She had descended so far down, so they had to come back through and push her back up. During that, my cervix tore.She came out screaming. My husband told me it was a girl because we don’t like to find out beforehand. Then, they were taking out my placenta and I heard the midwife and the OB. They were both like, “That’s weird. I’ve never seen anything like that.” They were just talking back and forth about something going on.Meagan: And you’re listening to them. Rebecca: Yes. I know my baby’s okay because I can hear her and I think I asked, “What’s going on?” The midwife was like, “Oh, I’ll come and show you once you’re in recovery. I’ll show you your placenta.” So they started stitching me back up and I’ll get back to the placenta, but they started stitching me back up and the OB said– he was one of those where he’s a great surgeon but he doesn’t have bedside manner. He made some comment like, “Yeah, you shouldn’t waste your time trying to VBAC. Your pelvis is way too small.” I got so angry. I’m on the operating table and I said, “I’ve already had a vaginal birth.” You could tell he was caught off guard. Obviously, you didn’t read anything about me before you gave me the surgery. Meagan: And this diagnosis of, “You will never have a vaginal birth.” That happens so often! Rebecca: I know. It makes me so angry when I see that because yeah, obviously, my body has pushed out a baby. Meagan: Well, yeah. Even mine hadn’t and he was like, “Your pelvis is too small.” The thing is that I easily could have believed him, right? Rebecca: Yeah.Meagan: When you’re laying there, cut open, vulnerable, and you’re told, “Don’t ever do this. Your pelvis is too small,” you want to naturally just believe these providers. I’m not saying that these providers are ever totally wrong or anything, but they give these diagnoses and we just believe it. Rebecca: Yeah. Meagan: So it’s hard.Rebecca: I mean, yeah. I don’t know what he was using to make that judgment, but it was obviously wrong as we are going to see. My body had already done it, too. Meagan: Yeah. Rebecca: I think that when I said that, he tried to recover it by saying, “Well, how much did your last baby weigh?” I told him and he said, “Well, I guess your magic number is somewhere between your first baby’s weight and your second baby’s weight.” I was just thinking, “I don’t think that’s how it works.” Meagan: Uh-uh. No. Sorry, dude. Rebecca: Yeah, exactly. So yeah. He got reprimanded, I think, for that one by the midwives. It made me so angry. But anyway, in recovery, the midwives brought my placenta to show me. It was wild. She said that she had never seen anything like it. It was a bivalve placenta and there was a velamentous cord insertion in between the connecting tissue. So it was just very exposed and apparently, I had vasa previa too. Their assumption was that when my baby was turning, it was compressing the cord and causing the heart decels essentially.And so they said it could have ruptured during surgery, or sorry, if I had actually pushed her out, it could have been pretty bad. So it was really crazy. She took pictures of it and texted it to all the people. She thought it was two placentas. The OB disagreed so the jury, I guess, is still out on what it was, but I had had a lot of bleeding during the pregnancy and they had assumed a vanishing twin or something along those lines early on. They couldn’t quite figure it out. It just kind of stopped. So they don’t know what exactly was going on with the placenta if it was just, yep. It was crazy. But that was my second birth and it just was very traumatic. After having such a smooth, textbook first birth and feeling so empowered to have this 12 months later was just devastating. Thankfully, my doula recommended therapy. I got into a therapist and really was just able to work through that birth trauma which is one of my big recommendations to people who have unexpected C-sections is to work through your birth story. There is so much healing in that. I am now able to look back at the birth and it’s not necessarily the happiest day to look back on, but I’m able to see it and not cry whenever I talk about it. Meagan: Yeah, yeah. Rebecca: Yeah. So that was my second birth, and then now leading into my third, I was determined to have a VBAC. One, to prove it to that OB who told me my pelvis was too small, but just for myself. I knew how much I loved my first birth and I just really wanted that again. After we got pregnant, in one of my first appointments, I was just chatting with the midwife and I said, “Oh yeah. The OB mentioned something about a cervical tear during the C-section. Does that affect anything?”Her face changed and she goes, “I’m going to get your OP report and read it. I’ll be back in a few minutes.” She came back in and said that I had a low-lying, transverse scar, but I had a midline cervical extension. So essentially, my cervix had torn and it had torn up to where my C-section scar was, so it was in the shape of a T.Meagan: So did that cervical scar tear up into your uterus?Rebecca: Yes. Meagan: Okay.Rebecca: But not into the contracting part. Meagan: Gotcha. Rebecca: So it was still low. But it was, yeah. It was very hard for me to figure out what exactly it was because I was trying to Google all of these words like, “What does this mean?” And then they were finally able to explain it to me. It was shaped like a T essentially. And she said that she seemed very confident that I was going to risk out of having a trial of labor and I was devastated. I was really upset, but she ultimately left it up to one of the OBs in the practice to sign off on. I knew I was going to see him at my next appointment, so I just spent a ton of time researching. I was texting all of my friends that are doctors. Nobody knew what it meant. I was searching for research articles. I joined the Special Scars Facebook group trying to find some more stories. I eventually found a PubMed study that was on cervical lacerations and how they affected subsequent pregnancies. It wasn’t really an apples-to-apples comparison. I was like, “You know what? These women had cervical tears and went on to have vaginal births afterward. I’m going to take this to the OB.” I was armed and ready. And then I went to the appointment and he was like, “Yeah. There’s not really any data or studies on how this impacts your risk of rupture.” I told him about the study and it was weird. He was just like, “Okay, yeah. You can have a trial of labor.” And I was shocked because I was just expecting to have all this pushback.I don’t know if he was more comfortable because it was lower and not in the contracting part of my uterus or if he could tell I was very determined and had done my research and was willing to take that risk, but he essentially gave the green light and then I never heard anything about it the rest of the pregnancy. So that was really exciting and I just continued. During the pregnancy, I went to the chiropractor. I ate dates. I drank red raspberry leaf tea. I was doing Spinning Babies, HypnoBirthing, and meditations. I was just trying to get in the right head space and get my body ready. And then near the end, I started psyching myself out. In one of my last appointments, I was obsessing about the baby’s position because the baby wasn’t– what is the ideal? It’s like, LOT?Meagan: L…

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Episode 194 VBAC Q&A + A Sad Announcement Jul 27, 2022

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This episode is exclusively with Meagan and Julie, here to answer your burning questions! Topics include due dates, induction, membrane sweeping, diastasis recti, scar tissue, pelvis size, and head size.We also have a sad announcement to share. Thank you, VBAC Link Community, for being with us through all of our seasons of change and growth. We feel that you are there for us as much as we love being there for you!Additional linksACOG Practice Bulletin 146: “Management of Late-Term and Postterm Pregnancies”Julie Francom Birth PhotographyHow to VBAC: The Ultimate Prep Course for ParentsFull transcriptNote: All transcripts are edited to correct grammar, false starts, and filler words. Julie: Welcome to The VBAC Link podcast. This is Episode 194 and this is Julie. I’m here with Meagan today. We have a not-as-fun of an episode. It’s fun because we are going to do some FAQ’s. We are going to talk about questions that we get all of the time. We had you guys submit questions on our social media pages, questions that we have been getting through our email, so we are so happy to answer your questions as usual. We also have an announcement to make that is not as fun. But before we do any of those things, Meagan has a Review of the Week for us. Review of the WeekMeagan: Yes, I do. This is from Ashley. She says, “This podcast is a gold mine of knowledge when it comes to VBACs. I have been bingeing these episodes ever since I got pregnant with my second. I have learned so much and gained a lot of confidence on how to find a truly supportive provider. I have enjoyed the birth stories so much. I mostly listen on my commute and can also say that these ladies are my car doulas.”That’s fun. Julie: Yay!Meagan: I have cried tears of happiness and/or tears of pain and understanding during so many of these stories. No matter what happens in my birth in August, which I hope will be a VBAC, this podcast has prepared me for it. P.S. I am now caught up on all of the episodes and I am sad that I have to wait for just one weekly episode.” That is so hard. You know what? I have listened to podcasts like that. I am a big– Julie: You just binge.Meagan: I am a big crime podcast listener. I will wait and wait and wait, and then I will catch up really fast, then I’m like, “No. I need to listen any time I want. All day every day if I need to.” It’s so hard to wait for the next week’s episode. So Ashley, you actually posted this in April. It doesn’t say the year. It just says April 27th, so if it was this year and your VBAC is coming really soon–Julie: I think if you double-click the cell, it brings up the year. Meagan: 2021. So Ashley, you– Julie: Already had her baby. Meagan: No, she’s due in August. Julie: Girl, it’s 2022 right now. Meagan: Oh duh. It’s 2022. So Ashley, tell us how your birth went. Julie: We may need to– our admin, Sarah, has left and she was so good at putting all of the new reviews in our spreadsheet. I don’t think either of us has done that for a long time. Meagan: I have not. We need some more, so drop us some reviews. Go to Apple Podcasts, Google, or wherever and drop us some reviews. We would love it and very much appreciate it. And Ashley, if you are still listening, we would love to know how things went and we are sending you congrats right now.The VBAC Link’s AnnouncementJulie: Aww. Meagan: Okay. Julie: Oh my gosh.Meagan: Ms. Julie, I am turning the time over to you. Julie: No, the time is for you. I don’t want to tell them. I don’t want to say it. I feel like I am doing something wrong. It’s the first time I feel like I’m doing something wrong. Meagan: So, we do. We have some news and the news is pretty crummy in my opinion. Julie is leaving us. She is leaving us. She is no longer going to be with The VBAC Link, although, let’s be honest, I’ll probably be bringing her back here and there. Julie: Will I ever really be gone? Meagan: Yeah, will you ever really, really be gone? I don’t know if I’m going to be able to allow that to happen. But that is the truth. So, Julie, I don’t know if you want to share a little bit. Julie: Yeah. Meagan: I don’t know if you want to share a little bit. I am just so sad. Julie: Oh my gosh. Yeah. It’s sad, but it’s the right choice for me. Oh my gosh. I don’t know how much I should share or how much is appropriate to share. First of all, there’s nothing wrong. Meagan and I are 110% good. I love Meagan. She loves me, at least I hope she still loves me. She hasn’t told me otherwise. Meagan: I adore you. Julie: There’s nothing wrong with The VBAC Link or with any– there’s no controversy or drama or anything like that. It’s just that there are things in my life that have lined up in a way that it doesn’t make a lot of sense for me to continue with The VBAC Link anymore. But I am so grateful to Meagan for keeping it forward and I know that she is going to do an amazing job doing that. I’m still in half of the course. I’m still on half the blogs. There are going to be remnants of me. But yeah. I guess we can just talk a little bit about how I came to this decision. I think a lot of people would appreciate some vulnerability and some honesty here. Maybe a lot of people here just don’t care very much and that’s totally fine. If you want to know, then definitely stick around, and then we are going to get to answering some VBAC FAQ’s. I don’t know if it’s FAQ. Meagan: Just Q&A’s. Julie: Yeah, Q&A’s. Those are the right letters. I don’t know how much you really know about this, but I had a pretty traumatic childhood with a lot of trauma involved growing up. I have recently been diagnosed with PTSD related to that childhood. I know that a lot of people here can relate to that. Trauma is trauma, right? Whether it happens in childhood, whether it happens in adulthood, whether it happens because of this thing, that thing, or childbirth, or whatever, trauma is trauma. Trauma responses are the same no matter what. Everyone’s trauma stories are different, but trauma responses are the same. I have pretty complicated trauma from my childhood that happened for many, many, many years. I thought I was doing fine and coping well through life, and I was because I was really good at stuffing things down, not feeling things, just trucking on, moving forward, and pushing through. That was my identity and then I started having kids because kids bring up– you guys can probably relate to this– all of the emotions, all of the feelings, all of the hormone shifts, and everything like that. Having kids started bringing up all of these things that I have been stuffing down and moving fine and doing comfortably not addressing and ignoring throughout my entire life. And so slowly but surely, I started having a lot of mental health issues. I was doing pretty well but the depression and the anxiety came. My different triggers with PTSD started showing up. It came to a point last year at the beginning of 2021 where I knew that something had to change. Something had to change. I was so anxious. I felt like everything was out of control and was kind of spiraling. I was not doing very good in life and I knew that I needed to be better for myself, better for my kids, better for my husband, better in all of my relationships, better in my partnership with Meagan, a better doula for my doula clients and now, I’m turning into a birth photographer. I started taking charge of my mental health and I went into a pretty big program that took a lot of time which is one of the reasons why we decided to take a break from the podcast because I was investing so much time in my mental health, healing my past, and healing the traumas that I had dealt with so long ago, that we needed a break from the podcast. And so anyway, it’s been a little while since things have settled down. I am doing a lot better now, but I am also trying to figure out how to exist. I don’t know if that’s the right word. How to find the right balance between me while I am still healing– it’s probably going to be a lifelong thing. As all people do, we all have our things. We all have our issues to work on, right? I’m just trying to find my balance and what feels right to me. I used to be the person that gets a lot of things thrown at her. I get a lot of things done. I knock stuff out. I accomplish so many things and everybody says, “Oh my gosh, I don’t know how you do so much.” Well, I’ll tell you how I do so much. I do so much by completely ignoring my self-care, by having a really unhealthy relationship with work and no boundaries with people and things. I’m rediscovering how to find a balance in all of those things. And so I have a lot of priorities right now. First of all, of course, is my family– my husband and my kids. Second of all is myself. My therapist gets mad at me all of the time for not making myself a priority in my life. But I am working on that and that self-care but also, healing and making better and improving constantly those important, eternal relationships to me which are my family and myself. Also, my business is now birth photography so if you are in Utah, I know a girl who can take your birth pictures for you. I’m reidentifying that and giving more to my usual clients as a birth photographer and doula. I am still a doula as well, a doula and photographer together which is called a doula-tog if you didn’t know. Doula-togs are a thing now. It’s pretty exciting. I’ve really invested a lot of myself into those areas. I’m improving myself, my relationships, and my other business which has been very fulfilling. Unfortunately, The VBAC Link is the next priority. I say “unfortunately” because after I put all of my time and energy into these other priorities of mine, there’s just not a lot left to give to The VBAC Link and it makes me sad to say. I am so sad to say it. I can’t continue with the unhealthy relationship with everything that I have had going on in my life. And so this is me setting my healthy boundaries. It has taken a really long time. I think I started really considering it in January and now it’s July. It has taken a really long time to get comfortable with that because The VBAC Link has been such a big part of my identity and who I am as a birth worker for so long. It’s taken a long time for me to get comfortable with the need to let it go so that I free up myself to put the energy into my higher priorities and the things that matter more and that are more significant in my life. I guess that is the best way to say it but t’s hard because The VBAC Link has been so significant. My priorities are kids, the husband, birth photography, and VBAC Link, and then maybe myself, right? So probably that’s not a good thing, right? So I need to, yeah. I don’t know. I’m just rambling now, but I love The VBAC Link. I love The VBAC Link. I still will always be a founder of The VBAC Link. I still will always have so much love for Meagan, The VBAC Link, and all of you on your journeys. I’ll still listen to your stories and keep up with everything that’s going on. I’ll pop in probably for a podcast here and there with Meagan. But yeah. There’s been a huge need for a big personal shift in my life and unfortunately, this is the thing. I don’t know what to say.Meagan: This is the thing. It’s just one of the things that need to be eliminated. It sucks. It sucks. Julie: It totally sucks. Meagan: It sucks really bad, but I just want you to know how proud of you I am because I know it wasn’t an easy choice or decision at all. I know that. I know that it was not easy. I’m not going to let you go too far. Julie: Yeah, we’ll see each other. We’ll be around. Meagan: Yes. Julie: At births together, probably. Meagan: I’m excited that you’re still doing photography and still being in the birth world a little bit and finding your place there, but yeah. I’m going to miss you but don’t worry, listeners. You’ll still hear her every once in a while.Julie: Yeah, and shoot me a message. You can follow me on, I don’t know. Can I do a shameless plug for my business? You can check me out on Facebook or Instagram. Just search for Julie Francom Birth and you can find my Instagram and Facebook.Meagan: Yeah, go find her. Julie: You can reach out to me. I would love to hear from you still because as of now, I am not involved anymore in the day-to-day operations and the messaging, the emails, and all of the intricate things that we do. Meagan: I know, all the things, yeah. Julie: It will be sad, but yeah. Come say “hi”. I would love to hear from you. Meagan: Yes. Let her know that you are still with her. Julie: Yeah. All right, let’s get past the sappy stuff. I don’t do well with it. Meagan: I know. I’m like, “Can we just not talk about this right now?” I’m not accepting this right now. Q&A’sMeagan: We do. We have questions that some of our followers have asked and it’s interesting. One of the questions that we saw come up is truly one of the most common questions that we get, I think. I think it’s one of the most common things. It’s about due dates. I shouldn’t say it’s one of the most common, but we had a question asking about a provider who is wanting her to have her baby immediately because they want to avoid a big baby. They want to know how far or if it’s even okay to go past your due date. Gosh, Julie. I struggle with this one a little bit because don’t you feel like it’s ever since the ARRIVE study? Julie: Yeah. Gosh. You know, I feel like it is. I feel like it’s more so. There’s more pressure on due dates. There always has been, but I feel like everyone wants to induce. Everyone wants to put a lot of pressure on you. Not everybody, but there are a lot of places and a lot of places I wouldn’t have expected to do that. Meagan: Yeah. Yeah. I don’t know. It just seems like this due date is such a thing. You know, with due dates, it’s one of those things that you have to do what’s best for you and follow your heart but these providers are wanting to induce. And so I’m actually going to steer away– because there were two kinds of questions in regards to due dates. One was “How far past my due date am I okay to go?” But there was another one saying that they want to. I’m trying to look for it right here. Julie: I have something about what ACOG says in our files somewhere. I’m going to find it about due dates. Meagan: Oh, it was stripping the membranes. It was stripping the membranes because the doctor– and this is at 38 weeks. The doctor was wanting her to go into labor immediately, like ASAP, and wanted her baby to be smaller. It was a big baby versus a small one. It is a small part of VBAC stats. I just want to talk about membrane sweeping, inducing, and due dates. I’m going to talk about three of those things. Julie: All of it. Meagan: All at the same time because they kind of all go into play with one another, right? So let’s talk about stripping membranes. Sweeping a membrane or stripping a membrane is where your provider will go in and separate the membrane. They go into the cervix, separate the membrane, and sweep around. It releases prostaglandins and hormones to help labor start. However, it doesn’t always happen like that. It doesn’t just start all the time. I wanted to talk about what it looks like. I don’t know if there are actually any stats. Julie, you guys, this is going to be really hard because Julie is such a stat person. I’m going to be writing to her all the time and be like, “Are there any stats that you know about this?” I don’t know about the stats or the actual percentage of if it’s going to work or not, but this is just a good rule of thumb for considering membrane sweeping that a midwife a long time ago gave me. I’ll tell you and you can take it with what you want. So if the cervix is “primed”, and I am doing primed with quotations. If the cervix is looking ready, this is the rule of thumb she gave me. It’s 2-3 centimeters dilated, 70-80+% effaced, and the cervix has come at least midline meaning your cervix is not really posterior. I…

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Episode 193 Lindsay's CBAC + Chiropractic Care Jul 20, 2022

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We are so happy to be joined by Lindsay on the podcast today who is sharing her birth stories and her chiropractic expertise. Lindsay is a beautiful example of how to create a healing birth experience after a traumatic one. We discuss how making empowered decisions can help you feel more in control in the birth room. Also, as the owner of her own chiropractic practice, Lindsay explains the benefits of the Webster Technique during pregnancy, as well as why every woman and baby should seek chiropractic care during the postpartum stage too. Additional linksLindsay’s Practice: Bluebird ChiropracticThe VBAC Link Blog: How to Plan for a Family Centered CesareanThe VBAC Link CommunityHow to VBAC: The Ultimate Prep Course for ParentsFull transcriptNote: All transcripts are edited to correct grammar, false starts, and filler words. Meagan: Happy Women of Strength Wednesday. It is Meagan and Julie.Julie: Hello!Meagan: And we are so excited to bring you another story. Today is actually a CBAC story and we were just talking about this before the episode. We are going to call it an elective CBAC. Is that what we decided?Julie: I don’t know. I think we will just leave it at CBAC because she labored. Her plans changed during labor. So I think we are going to keep it at CBAC.Meagan: She did, yeah. Okay, a CBAC story. It was definitely something that she chose and that’s one of the reasons why I love the story so much is that she stood her ground, advocated for herself, and chose something that not even her provider wanted her to choose. I am not going to give away too much, but we have a Review of the Week and then we are going to go into this lovely episode with our friend Lindsay.Review of the WeekJulie: Yes, a Review of the Week. I like this review. I picked the longest one I could find on our spreadsheet.Meagan: Oh good because I can’t read and you know that.Julie: Meagan can read, everybody. Meagan can read. She just has a hard time reading and speaking. But you have actually gotten quite a bit better since we first started The VBAC Link four years ago. You have improved leaps and bounds. I’m actually quite impressed with your skills now.Meagan: Well, thank you.Julie: You’re welcome. But this review is a little mini VBAC story in one. I just think it’s really cool. This is from Abby from, oh my gosh, an email. It’s an email. She said– oh my gosh, we love emails. Guys, email us.Talk to us. We love talking to you and connecting with you guys. We got this in an email which is why it is longer. That makes sense now. And so she says, “Hi. I’ve been wanting to send you a message for months now to let you know how you have encouraged me. Your podcast was referred to me near the end of my pregnancy and I listened oftenwhile cleaning. The facts and stories shared absolutely solidified my confidence in what my body is capable of despite the exaggeration surrounding uterine rupture. It was by far the most important stuff I learned from you gals, so thank you.”Just a side note, we have a podcast episode and a blog about uterine rupture talking about all of the myths and stuff surrounding there. Anyway, I love that. Sorry, where was I? Oh, there we go.“Thank you for doing the work to learn this stuff and sharing it. My first four children are two sets of twins, naturally conceived.”Wow, two sets of twins. I’m going to have a commentary on the story while I am reading it. Okay, I’m going to get back on track now.“I had two C-sections without issue. In the first one, I barely knew anything. For the second, I was pressured by my doctor just doing all of the textbook things to get me to believe that surgery was the only real option. Both were scheduled, but the second time around, I had gained a lot of knowledge about all things natural birth. “With this third pregnancy and a new doctor, I knew she was giving me all of the typical fear-mongering, ill-informed informationthat she could. She did not like that I refused to schedule a C-section. I was planning to wait for labor to happen on its own, even if that meant going two weeks beyond “due”. All indicators pointed to her not allowing me a true trial of labor. She waved all the red flags in her words. “I had planned to labor at home as long as possible and my dear friend who used to work as a doula offered her friendly and experienced support to get me through the home laboring. My husband couldn’t get down with hiring a midwife while we had health insurance to cover hospital birth, so sadly I accepted that we would ultimately not birth at home. Well, I labored at home all day and when the intense contractions hit around the time that our kids were going to bed, my mindset was, ‘These are probably going to be intense for the next four or so hours.’ “I had bloody show around 9:00 p.m. or so and wasn’t checking the timing of contractions. None of us even thought about that. Someone called another friend to come and stay with the kids and in what seemed like ten minutes' time, something changed. I told my friend that I guess it was transition. I wasn’t going anywhere in the car. My baby boy, Schallom, was born at 10:40 p.m. on the bathroom floor assisted by my friend and my husband. Healthy! That wasn’t the plan but was the original hope witha midwife. Knowing we wouldn’t have a midwife, having a baby at home was out of the question.“At one point during labor on the bathroom floor, I asked, “Is there someone else we can call?” But I knew that even EMTs would just deliver right there and my husband is a first responder, although he has not delivered nor assisted a birth. Thank you for your encouragement and knowledge that absolutely helped and enabled my mind to be atpeace enough to smoothly deliver my baby at home, a VBAC after two C-sections. There are so many other details but I really wanted to let you know how grateful I am for your podcast and the integral part that played in my third birth.”We need this girl on the podcast! Who is she? Abby.Meagan: That is an awesome, awesome story.Julie: Oh my gosh.Well, she is in an email. We have got to find the email. It came in on February 2nd, so I’m going to go scopingthrough emails. We are going to find Abby and we’re going to share her story on the podcast because I was on the edge of my seat just reading the review. I can’t even imagine. Oh my gosh.Meagan: Yes.Lindsay’s StoryMeagan: Okay. Well, expect a podcast sometime from Miss Abby, but today we are going to share Lindsay’s story. So Miss beautiful Lindsay, let’s turn the time over to you. Lindsay: Thank you, guys. Meagan: Thank you.Lindsay: Okay, so for my first C-section, I was induced and then had every induction method/intervention under the sun and nothing was working. I wouldn’t progress and every time contractions came, they tried to up Pitocin to up my contractions, then my son’s heart rate started dropping. At one point they couldn’t get it up, so it turned into an emergency C-section after that.For my second birth, I was definitely planning a VBAC. I tried to prepare myself. I read all of the natural things, did lots of chiropractic care, and was mentally prepared. My son was 11 days late and then I got to the point where I was almost 10 days late, I believe. My midwife kept pushing, “Hey, we need to induce you,” but everything was looking good with baby and I knew I just go late with babies. I kept saying, “No,” but my husband and I had talked and we decided that if I didn’t go into labor naturally or anything like that, then we just wanted to elect for a C-section. With my son, my first baby, everything was so out of control and very traumatic that we just wanted something in our control. We were just not ready to go down the intervention route. We knew that didn’t work for us the first time and who knows? Maybe it would work the second time, but we just didn’t want that. Luckily this time, I went into labor on my own. I labored hard for about 12 hours and it got to the point where it was so intent that we figured we should probably head to the hospital. Meagan: Yeah, you even sounded pushy and grunty at some points. Lindsay: My whole pregnancy, I really wanted a home birth and I just didn’t like the idea of going to the hospital. I still wasn’t fully satisfied with my midwife. I bet I was probably further along when I was at home, but then when we got to the hospital, I think they said I was a 1.5, but 90% effaced. Still, very intense contractions and some were even like, what is it called? Coupling– where they are one on top of the other and no break in between. And so they decided to let me labor a little bit longer. Since I was past due, they weren’t going to send me home by any means because, at this point, I believe I was 12 days past due. So I labored for a little bit longer in the hospital. They checked me again and I still hadn’t progressed at all. And so my husband and I decided, “Let’s just do the C-section.” There was no point to push it off, getting an epidural, trying more interventions, or anything like that. We were very happy with the decision even though it wasn’t what we exactly wanted. This felt in control for us. My midwife did not like that. Meagan: She really didn’t. Lindsay: She didn’t. Meagan: She was not happy. In fact, tell them about how we were waiting. Lindsay: Yeah.Meagan: We were waiting for her, anyway–Lindsay: Yeah, so she wasn’t the one on call. They finally called her in and it felt like it took forever. Also, I don’t know if she was mad at me, but she gave me her number too to text her at the end of my pregnancy. I told her I was in labor and she didn’t respond, so it was just one thing after another. But I think I came out of the bathroom and she was standing against a cabinet or the wall or something with her arms crossed and was like, “Are you sure you want to do this?” And my husband and I were like, “We already made the decision. This is what we wanted.”And so it was just sad that we didn’t have the support from her, but with Meagan and my husband, I had plenty of support otherwise. I mean, all of the nurses were super supportive and I just wanted to make sure we were making the decision we wanted for us. We believed it was the right decision and honestly, it was the best decision. If I wasn’t going to go into labor or progress through labor on my own, then this was what worked for us because the C-section was so healing. I know not many people can say that but it made me and my husband feel like we were in control and we got to talk about what we wanted in the C-section. It wasn’t an emergency and it was just a different experience. My husband feels as well just healed from our first traumatic experience and the recovery was better. It was easier. I’m not saying C-section recovery is easy by any means, but it was easier than my first just because mentally, we were prepared. I got to hold my baby girl as soon as they cleaned her off. They put her on me and I got to hold her the whole time they were stitching me up. I never let go of her which was so fantastic compared to my first where he was swept away to the NICU. I didn’t get to see him for six hours after birth, so it definitely was a healing C-section. Meagan: Absolutely. You came back and even though you were so tired and everything, you came back and you looked so bright. Lindsay: Oh yeah. Meagan: And free. It was so good. It was so good to see you that way. Lindsay: Yes. Meagan: Because I was with you after the first and it wasn’t necessarily– I don’t want to say you looked bad.Lindsay: No, I looked bad. Meagan: You looked different. You looked different. The first time was really rough and it was a lot and this time, it wasn’t. We don’t know exactly why things didn’t progress. Maybe it was a mixture of feeling stressed when you got to the hospital because I swear to you that you were seeming very progressed at home. Even the labor pattern changed once we got there, but I just was so proud of you. Your midwife, yeah. She was like, “Are you sure though? I could just check you right now.” And you were like, “No.”Lindsay: Right. I was like, “I don’t want to be checked again.”Meagan: “I’m good. I am good.” And even after, she was like, “Ahhh.” Lindsay: Yeah. I mean she never even came back and saw us. She said she was going to and she never came back and checked on us to meet my daughter or anything like that. Meagan: Yeah, which is just so crazy. I just don’t get it. I don’t know. Maybe she had a chip on her shoulder. I don’t know. Lindsay: I don’t know. Meagan: I don’t know but I was proud of you for making the decision that you felt was best for you and doing it. I love hearing that it was so healing for you because that is how birth should be, you guys. No matter the outcome of what you want, even if it’s not what you desired, I would love for birth to be healing for everyone. I know it doesn’t happen to everyone like this, but I would love for it to be a healing experience. My repeat Cesarean wasn’t what I wanted at all, but I felt more a part of it and it was healing for me because I felt more a part of it. But I just wanted to drop that message out there to everyone who is listening that it’s okay to make these hard choices and do what you can to make your experience a healing one even if it’s not what you want. We talk about gentle Cesareans and family-centered Cesareans. We have blogs on it. But really, Cesareans can be healing. They really can. Lindsay: Yes. Meagan: I’m so happy for you. So, so happy for you. Lindsay: Thank you. I mean, I definitely couldn’t have gone through it without you and my husband as well. There were definitely hard decisions. I remember laboring in the tub and we went over everything a million times about how this could go. My daughter was also a surprise gender so we got to the point where we were like, “Let’s just figure out what this baby is,” after being 12 days late and everything. So that helped too but I know that with labor and delivery and all of pregnancy, you can’t be in control. That baby isn’t controlled by you, but it just felt nice to be able to make a decision that was something we wanted. Chiropractic CareMeagan: Absolutely. Yep. So we are going to make a little shift. This is a part-birth, part-education episode, but I would love to talk a little bit about what you do as a profession. Lindsay: Yes.Meagan: So for anybody who does not know, Lindsay is a chiropractor. She is amazing. I would love to talk about chiropractic care and anything you would like to share. Maybe discuss why you feel chiropractic care is important, especially in labor and delivery and why it may be important in the postpartum stage. Lindsay: Yes, yes. Meagan: I feel like in all senses, sometimes, we forget about postpartum. We just forget about it and we forget that there is definitely something that happens after. We still have to take care of ourselves and we still have to prepare for that, so is there anything you want to share or would like to talk about with any of that? Lindsay: Yes, thank you. I am a Webster-certified chiropractor which basically means I specialize in pregnant mamas. The Webster name gets thrown out all the time and definitely, if you are pregnant, look for a Webster-certified chiropractor in your area. We’ve taken extra education and seminars to prepare us to help take care of pregnant mamas, but that technique, basically, is very gentle on mom and baby. First, I’d like to say that I never adjust baby. I’m only adjusting mom, but in turn, to have less tension in the pelvis and motion in your joints and in your spine, you take the tension out of the uterus which then helps baby go head down or just have optimal space. If they have trouble going head down, the Webster technique helps babies go head down. But just in general, it’s very safe for mom and baby. We are not adjusting baby. We are just adjusting mom, but it’s the one thing that you can really do for yourself that can take away some pregnancy aches an…

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Episode 192 Carolyn’s VBAC + Birth Options Jul 13, 2022

Show notes

Show notes“Whenever I see someone that I know who has had a C-section, I’m like, ‘Did you know you don’t have to have another C-section? You can do something else!’”Mama, you have options! Carolyn shares her Cesarean and VBAC stories with us today about how she explored all the birth options available to her and made informed decisions along the way. Carolyn especially took advantage of optimal fetal positioning resources. She went from pushing for hours with no progress during her first labor to one great push and a successful VBAC with her second. Carolyn’s dream birth experience came true and she cannot stop reliving that sweet moment of catching her baby.Additional linksThe VBAC Link CommunityHow to VBAC: The Ultimate Prep Course for ParentsFull transcriptNote: All transcripts are edited to correct grammar, false starts, and filler words. Julie: Welcome, welcome. You are listening to The VBAC Link podcast. This is Julie. I am here with Meagan and we are so excited to be with you on another Wednesday. It is kind of fun rocking and rolling again with the podcast and hearing all sorts of people's stories. Today, we will have interviewed somebody in each time zone in the United States. I am pretty sure. We are in one and our guest today is from Kansas City. We are really excited. I love the Midwest. Everyone thinks I’m crazy. Maybe it is because I haven’t been there for any winter, but I really love the Midwest, especially in springtime. It is just perfect to me. I love it. One day, I don’t know. If I ever get to be rich and get to have multiple houses, I might own a house in the Midwest so that I can have a nice springtime there. But anyway, we are talking with Carolyn who is an incredible woman. She has a three-year-old and a one-year-old and she lives, like I said, in Kansas City. She’s a senior marketing manager and we are so excited to hear from her today. Before we do that, Meagan has a Review of the Week for us. Meagan, do you want to go ahead and share?Review of the WeekMeagan: Yes, I do. This is from holmclaugh90. It says, “I listen every single day. After a traumatic Cesarean with my first baby five years ago and multiple miscarriages in between, this is a breath of fresh air as I await my chance to have a VBAC this October with my second, I love every story I hear on this podcast and it makes me feel so much stronger in knowing that I can do this.”And I want you to know that this is, let’s see. She posted this actually last July, so I was going to say, “Yes. You are strong enough,” but holmclaugh90, if you’re still listening, we want to know how things went last October. Please, please follow up with us.Julie: Yeah. We love hearing updates. I love it when people come around full circle. Oh my gosh, Meagan, this week it is mid-June and I had a Facebook memory show up. Our very first podcast episode was published years ago last week. It was the second week of June and it is so crazy to be at four years. Some people have been listening to our podcast and have had one or two babies after listening to our podcast. It is so crazy to think that we have so many incredible stories coming full circle now and it’s just fun to have been on this journey with you guys for so long. I love it.Carolyn’s StoryJulie: Okay, we are going to get to Carolyn's story and I just love it. I was just reading through some of her show notes here and I just absolutely love how she talks about asking for what you need. Ask for the tub or the nurse who is more VBAC friendly. The last thing you want is to be surprised in the hospital room. And yes, ask for everything. I can’t wait to hear all of the incredible things that she asked for that helped her get her VBAC. So Carolyn, do you want to take it over and share your story with us?Carolyn: Yeah, absolutely. I’m so excited.Julie: Thanks.Carolyn: All right well, yeah. So really for me, it seems like forever ago, but in July 2018 when I got pregnant for the first time, luckily I had a very easy time getting pregnant. A really easy pregnancy and actually, my sister-in-law was pregnant at the same time. I will probably reference her a couple of times. That was super helpful to me. She had previously been pregnant and her pregnancy actually ended up in an unplanned C-section and not her ideal labor, so I feel like I thought I had a lot of lessons from her. Spoiler alert, she ended up getting her VBAC with her second pregnancy. She actually had a home birth. She is super amazing. So I feel like going into my first pregnancy, I was like, “I’ve got it. I know what to do. I have a leg up even.” And so I did all of the things. I ate the dates. I drank the tea. I did prenatal yoga, all the good stuff and I was interested in doing an unmedicated birth. I wasn’t super anti-epidural, but I hoped. I just wanted it to be normal. You see movies and you see TV shows. That’s what you expect, right?For me, the day after my due date, my water broke. I think I actually laughed out loud because it just seemed so ridiculous that that would happen. I even made my husband come look at the fluid on the floor which is gross, but I needed to show somebody. I had an OB appointment that day, so we actually just went in. It was at eight in the morning so it was really fast from when that happened. She confirmed that yep, it was amniotic fluid.I was only 1 centimeter dilated and she was essentially like, “Go home. Get labor going. Keep me updated." So we went back home and I couldn’t believe this when I was writing this up. I was at home for 10 hours before we even made a move to the hospital. Those contractions were just on and off. We went on a walk. We made cupcakes. We watched a movie.At some point, I was getting frustrated. My water broke. I didn’t want to be in a situation where it had been a really long time, so actually, I went to my chiropractor who I had been seeing throughout pregnancy. She also does acupuncture, so I went to her during labor which is kind of wild and got that acupuncture which was bizarre. I had never done that before and that was the first time I had ever had it. I sat on the birthing ball in her office with all of the needles and everything and sure enough, I went home and my contractions were consistently five minutes apart, four minutes apart. Around 10, my doula came over. I should have picked up her vibe. She was very relaxed, very like, “I see what’s going on here,” but I was very antsy to start going to the hospital. Of course, there was a huge thunderstorm right when we left. We live really close to the hospital. We got there and I was only 3 or 4 centimeters dilated, so I was feeling “meh” about that. I wish I would’ve been more, but it is what it is. I labored in the room for pretty much most of the night. I eventually got in the tub and that was amazing. It was really relaxing and continued to help me progress. I got out at about five in the morning when my OB came in there. I was 9 centimeters and 100% effaced so that was super awesome. She did let me know that I actually had– I didn’t even know this was a thing– a fore bag of waters. Even though my water had broken, there was still more. She asked for my consent to break it. She is amazing, by the way. I will say that a hundred times. I said, “yes”, so she basically broke my water. I think I peed in the hospital bed five times consecutively. I don’t know if that was just the warm water or whatever, so I’m just profusely apologizing to the nurses. Sure enough, that did the trick and I was at 10 centimeters. I was so excited. I was unmedicated. I was feeling really positive about labor and everything despite painful contractions. She did let me know that he was still pretty high up and wanted to have me breathe through the contractions for another while before I started pushing, so I then spent several hours in all types of positions. Around noon, I started pushing. I actually did try nitrous oxide which put me in a good mood, but it didn’t really help me that much. I think at around 2:00 p.m., I looked at the clock and I just started saying, “This isn’t right. What is going on? How could this be? I’ve been at 10 centimeters since eight in the morning and it is 2:00 p.m.” I just did not understand. It’s not that no one was sharing with me information. It was just stalled and I was starting to act a little bit crazy. Each contraction would come and I was bracing the hospital bed saying, “Don’t make me do it,” just kind of getting crazy, so I talked about the epidural. My husband and I had actually made a safe word so that he knew I really meant, “No, this is real. I really want the epidural.” So I did get that and yes, absolutely. It helped me rest. I took a two-hour nap. I was able to also let my husband and doula rest as well. So now, it’s 4:00 p.m. My doctor came in. I believe I told her, “I could do this for hours. I am renewed. Let’s rock it.” They turned the epidural down and I pushed for another two hours. My doctor is really straightforward but extremely empathetic. She basically said, “He is not coming down.” I think she said that he was barely at +1 and I didn’t fully know what that meant, but I knew in my heart that it was not happening. I asked her about forceps. I said, “What about the vacuum?” All of these things I am just asking her like, “Is there anything left to do?” She was not pushy at all about a C-section. We started to have that conversation of, “Is this direction we are going to go?” For us, the baby was not in distress. I was not in distress. It was not an emergency, but we talked about it for another little bit and finally decided that this was the right thing to do. It was 8:30 p.m., almost two days after my water broke and as they do, they moved really quickly.One bright star in the C-section process was that the anesthesiologist was super nice. I think that sometimes I hear a lot of stories where people don’t have friendly anesthesiologists, but he was really friendly. We had to negotiate to have both my husband and the doula in the room. I felt really strongly about that because I wanted someone with me but also someone with the baby, so after the baby came out, my husband went with the baby and my doula stayed up with me holding my hands and everything. Also, the anesthesiologist actually asked me if I wanted any music and played a particular song that I was very into at the moment, and so I always remember that as a good moment. Once they started the C-section, I was really uncomfortable and really, really not feeling it. I wouldn’t say I was screaming, but I was making noise to the point where my doctor kept asking me, “Are you okay?” And I just said, “I don’t like it. I don’t like this feeling, the tugging, the pressure, and all of it.” I even asked one of the nurses, I was like, “Am I a little out of the norm?” She said, “Yeah. It was a little hard to concentrate.” Oh well. But my son came out that evening at 9:20. He was healthy. Everything was great with him. I was so anxious and shaky. I knew it wasn’t a good idea to hold him and honestly, I was just mentally feeling so out of it. I actually asked the anesthesiologist to calm me down, fully knowing that it meant to just basically give me a little something in there to make me fall asleep, and I did for about 20 minutes.At the end of the night, I was able to hold my son. I hated missing out on that magic hour right there, but I knew it also wasn’t feeling right for me to take him until I was a little calmer and less shaky, less manic, and all of that. So that was my C-section story.I was pretty upset about it afterward. I actually even remember watching an episode of Grey’s Anatomy three or four days postpartum. There was an episode where someone doesn’t know she is pregnant and gives birth in an emergency– just a vaginal, unmedicated birth. I was so upset. I had to turn off the TV. So I knew right away that I did want to try for a VBAC and luckily, someone had recommended the Facebook group and The VBAC Link podcast. I feel like so many people say this on here, and now I am saying it too. I listened to every single episode on my daily walks. I was just obsessed with VBACs in my second pregnancy.With that, when I got pregnant again, my doctor again reiterated, “You are a good candidate,” and I actually didn’t change anything. I had my same OB, same doula, and same hospital and I feel like that is pretty uncommon. I feel like a lot of people who don’t have the experience they desire with a C-section, maybe it’s because they didn’t have a supportive doctor. Maybe it’s because they didn’t like the environment. For me, that wasn’t the issue. He was just stuck, so I stayed with all of my providers. I did make a couple of changes. I still did all the same things– the dates, the yoga, the tea. Probably the biggest change I made, thankfully or unthankfully due to the pandemic, was that I was working from home, so I went on a walk every single day. I was active during my first pregnancy, but I feel like the walks were really intentional for me. They were really a good grounding place for me to be in my pregnancy. When you are working, when you have another child, it’s hard to be like, “Hey, I am pregnant right now.”Meagan: Yeah. Yeah or even just focus on it. Yeah.Carolyn: Yeah. Whether I was listening to The VBAC Link, music, or whatever it is, it gave me that little 20 or 30 minutes a day of just, “Yep. This is for me.” Something else that I got tipped off from I think one of your podcast episodes was something super specific within Spinning Babies. I know a lot of people love Spinning Babies but for me, because my son with my C-section was just in such a bad position, I got hyperfocused on that. One of the things they talk about in Spinning Babies is to rest smart or the flashlight test which sounds kind of weird, but it makes sense when you hear it explained. Basically, your belly button either should be pointing out or down, not ever up. So when you think about sleeping or sitting on the couch or working, I was super obsessed with this. I was watching TV on the ball throughout my whole pregnancy. I was not laying down. I was not leaning back. I wasn’t reclining or anything and as silly as it may seem, who knows if that made a difference or not, but the baby certainly ended upin a good position. So that was one thing that was probably a little abnormal that I hung on to.Meagan: Well, I will just tell you that you are not alone because I did the same thing with my son. In fact, I didn’t even sit on a couch for nine months.Carolyn: Oh my god.Meagan: Like legitimately, I wouldn’t sit on the couch. I sat on the floor cross-legged, pelvis tilted up. That was totally me and driving very properly. That was totally me.Carolyn: Yep. Yep. Yes, yes. We went on a road trip at one point when I was pregnant and I think I stuffed two or three coats behind me so I was almost leaning forward in the car. I was like, “This is ridiculous, but not if it works.” It’s only weird if it doesn’t work as I say.Meagan: Oh and if you don’t do it and there is a thing, then you are sitting there questioning, “Well, what if I would’ve done it?” At least that’s where my mind went, anyway.Carolyn: Oh no I know. No, I’m the same way. At that point, it was not like it was causing me pain. I wasn’t frustrated by it. I was just like, “This is what I do now. This is how I am.”Meagan: Right. Yeah, yeah.Carolyn: There was an end in sight, so I didn’t mind it too much. Other things I did towards the end, I did do the curb walking which actually was just sort of funny. In my neighborhood, all of the streets are sloped so there are actually no curbs really, so I had to either drive or walk a pretty solid distance to get somewhere that had real curbs. I always ended up in a parking lot of some office park or somewhere weird where people were like, “What is this really pregnant lady doing walking around?” But I loved the curb walking. I did the forward-le…

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